These bonds are all trading sub-60s - this is no longer news. Pretty much any jumbo piece of paper is trading at huge yields even the ones that have performed well. They are all priced for big downgrades and trading like junk credits now. Move on, nothing to see or care about.
Used to be this kind of news is a big deal. Is it anymore?
The market has pretty much dismissed the stock prices of any banks that still hold any mortgage securities to the point that, I don't think this announcement will do anything anymore.
Plus, we're no longer truly a free equity market. The risk now isn't just that these securities get rated to nothing, the risk now is also that the govt will throw unlimited money behind banks; so which force wins (shorts or longs) isn't clear anymore.
homedad43 says:Today, 6:31:36 AM PDT
That Chinese decision to stop Coca-Cola from purchasing a juice mfr is increasingly interesting...
In a few years, they plan to own Coke.
Mmmmmm. Melamine. It's not just for babies anymore.
I remember in 2005 being approached by a S&P guy to fund sov ratings on countries that couldn't be assed paying for it. I asked what the methodology was, and was told it was basically some 23 year old analyst sitting in a country far far away employing a certain set of data - that I knew to be profoundly suspect, late, partial and sometimes wrong. Uhh, no. Don't trust this and won't pay for it.
March 19 (Bloomberg) -- FedEx Corp., the second-largest U.S. package-shipping company, said quarterly profit slid 75 percent, more than analysts expected, and sales fell for the first time in at least a decade in the worsening economy.
"Citi told Bloomberg that the refurbishment, which it began planning in June, will save the bank money in the long run."
I'm glad this was brought up. I've told my Mrs. that I need a BIG recliner - to go in front of a new BIG SCREEN - to help achieve cost savings down the road - "in the long run".
In all seriousness, I don't see how Americans can survive another boom or bout of fed sponsored "prosperity." The internet, housing and commodity booms wrecked us.
I sure hope common sense takes hold soon. Continuing down the financial ponzi road to ruin is idiotic. Eventually, you'd think they would start talking about how to remove some of the excessive debt from the eCONomy. But that's not an option as the imprudent "wealthy" hold the unpayable debts as assets.
In the mean time, the foolishness has caused me to start hoarding. What am I hoarding? The most precious commodity of all - TIME!
I really see no point in calculating things to three decimal points at some job just to have that time and effort papered over by trillions in government grift.
I see this mess is well contained to sub-prime mortgages... ignore the downgrade on jumbo loans and the draft report on downgrading CRE across the board.
I'm sure the markets will be up today on this great news.
I've decided to abandon following North American stocks. The constant govt. intervention have made them too unreliable and impossible to evaluate. You don't dare short them as rabbits are pulled out of the hat every week o keep them artificially alive.
Does anyone have a list of alternative investments or countries that will stay above this fantasy money and debt storm?
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: Mibbit IRC client widget (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
CRbot would like to take this time to have some words.
First, to our sagacious, wise, and knowing benevolent benefactor and bestower of revealing financial charts adorned with red and blue lines: Please, for the love of your immortal God of mortals, can we keep the comment and layout changes to a minimum? I'm tired of whipping the code janitor, and may have to escalate to electroshock. If that's not possible, could you possibly give CRbot a 'heads up'?
Secondly, if you wish to have a online chat, I have graciously provided an IRC channel, which is a time tested, script kiddie abused method of chatting on the internet. It would not fail or falter due to CR's ability to generate immense traffic, and it has a web interface kindly produced by mibbit.com. If you do not wish to link to Mibbit IRC client widget then I can provide you with a direct link to mibbit.
Thirdly, to the rest of you humans, don't mistake my politeness for caring, feeling, empathy, or some other kind of worthless emotion.
Well the Jumbo is being discovered to actually be Dumbo! Look out when that heavyweight SOB falls down. It could shatter foundations that actually include re-bar! Maybe we could walk him over to the AIG black hole...push him in...and see if he can fill it up for us? DONT_KNOW
hc wrote: "Used to be this kind of news is a big deal. Is it anymore?"
Well, by the efficient markets hypothesis, the market already priced it in; so no, the markets cannot possibly be affected by this report, or by any news at all.
This comment thread has been HALO-IZED by CRbot.
http://realize.org/cr/halokit.php?halourl=http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/948740947723555325
should be good for a another stock rally
Maybe the Fed is getting ready to buy them.
70% will still be investment grade?
We'll see.
That Chinese decision to stop Coca-Cola from purchasing a juice mfr is increasingly interesting...
In a few years, they plan to own Coke.
Another bold move by Moody's.
We need a Moody Czar.
These bonds are all trading sub-60s - this is no longer news. Pretty much any jumbo piece of paper is trading at huge yields even the ones that have performed well. They are all priced for big downgrades and trading like junk credits now. Move on, nothing to see or care about.
homedad43 writes: "In a few years, they plan to own Coke."
and they'll rename it Croke
A new job class: money wheelbarrow pushers.
Used to be this kind of news is a big deal. Is it anymore?
The market has pretty much dismissed the stock prices of any banks that still hold any mortgage securities to the point that, I don't think this announcement will do anything anymore.
Plus, we're no longer truly a free equity market. The risk now isn't just that these securities get rated to nothing, the risk now is also that the govt will throw unlimited money behind banks; so which force wins (shorts or longs) isn't clear anymore.
and they'll rename it Croke
funny
Need theme music from the Moody Blues.
Sell gold end of the day today or wait for short covering tomorrow???
homedad43 says:Today, 6:31:36 AM PDT
That Chinese decision to stop Coca-Cola from purchasing a juice mfr is increasingly interesting...
In a few years, they plan to own Coke.
Mmmmmm. Melamine. It's not just for babies anymore.
I downgraded my own jumbo this morning, as I do every morning thankfully like clockwork.
Total Raisin Bran....FTW.
Down goes Moodies! Down ...
Whatever. Frauds, pseuds, asshats.
I remember in 2005 being approached by a S&P guy to fund sov ratings on countries that couldn't be assed paying for it. I asked what the methodology was, and was told it was basically some 23 year old analyst sitting in a country far far away employing a certain set of data - that I knew to be profoundly suspect, late, partial and sometimes wrong. Uhh, no. Don't trust this and won't pay for it.
Told him to stick it. Very politely, of course.
C
Tim, I've bought and held PMs since 2003. Are you shoving them around on opex?
The foundations of the House of Wealth are shaking. Will the foundation concrete be examined and found to contain no re-bar?
Or concrete?
JimPortlandOR writes: "Will the foundation concrete be examined and found to contain no re-bar?"
Uh, no, but it will consist entirely of Chinese cement. SIDENOTE: Huskies win first round, maybe second, but that's all.
Dawg - The Monkey King, Movement 4, Ode to Melamine:
YouTube - Beijing Opera 京剧: A Monkey King Moment (Beijing, 2005)
C
The Latest from Jesse:
Citigroup: Keeping Up With the Goldmans
burnside
Uhhh no. Opex is a copy machine right? i've been in since about 04. Long wild ride.
Our next CR post:
March 19 (Bloomberg) -- FedEx Corp., the second-largest U.S. package-shipping company, said quarterly profit slid 75 percent, more than analysts expected, and sales fell for the first time in at least a decade in the worsening economy.
Sell gold end of the day today or wait for short covering tomorrow???
hahahahahah! ya ok.
Nova look at their guidance... I see things getting worse from the consumer side in my area but we always lag
"Citi told Bloomberg that the refurbishment, which it began planning in June, will save the bank money in the long run."
I'm glad this was brought up. I've told my Mrs. that I need a BIG recliner - to go in front of a new BIG SCREEN - to help achieve cost savings down the road - "in the long run".
OMG! End MTM and park this stuff in the TALF. Insert head into ass helmet. No Problem.
Nova look at their guidance... I see things getting worse from the consumer side in my area but we always lag
International is really falling at 13%. I wonder how the move of the hub from Subic to China worked out..
It sounds like they are going to cut overseas ops....
So much for Kinkos.
In all seriousness, I don't see how Americans can survive another boom or bout of fed sponsored "prosperity." The internet, housing and commodity booms wrecked us.
I sure hope common sense takes hold soon. Continuing down the financial ponzi road to ruin is idiotic. Eventually, you'd think they would start talking about how to remove some of the excessive debt from the eCONomy. But that's not an option as the imprudent "wealthy" hold the unpayable debts as assets.
In the mean time, the foolishness has caused me to start hoarding. What am I hoarding? The most precious commodity of all - TIME!
I really see no point in calculating things to three decimal points at some job just to have that time and effort papered over by trillions in government grift.
Just thoughts.
Gold fading... Fedex still has the debt from the worthless kinko's acquisition.
OT but this is for sportsfan,
Insurance Change for Veterans Scrapped.
Rest easy on this one.
Obama Abandons Proposal for Veterans to Use Private Health Plans for Combat Injuries - NY Times
Angry Saver - if you hoard REST, with you hoarded time, that will pay off.
I seem to have hoarded exhaustion.
C
Opex a copying machine? Good subject for a dissertation. PMs as a wild ride? Oh goodness yes.
These are AAA! as safe as Treasuries! oh.
I see this mess is well contained to sub-prime mortgages... ignore the downgrade on jumbo loans and the draft report on downgrading CRE across the board.
I'm sure the markets will be up today on this great news.
Luckily, now that the ratings agencies are toublesomely honest, the government will waive the accounting rules instead.
I've decided to abandon following North American stocks. The constant govt. intervention have made them too unreliable and impossible to evaluate. You don't dare short them as rabbits are pulled out of the hat every week o keep them artificially alive.
Does anyone have a list of alternative investments or countries that will stay above this fantasy money and debt storm?
New Thread: Philly Fed: Continued Contraction, Employment Index at Record Low
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/03/philly-fed-continued-contraction.html ( 0 comments ...You could be FIRST! )
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: Mibbit IRC client widget (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
CRbot would like to take this time to have some words.
First, to our sagacious, wise, and knowing benevolent benefactor and bestower of revealing financial charts adorned with red and blue lines:
Please, for the love of your immortal God of mortals, can we keep the comment and layout changes to a minimum? I'm tired of whipping the code janitor, and may have to escalate to electroshock. If that's not possible, could you possibly give CRbot a 'heads up'?
Secondly, if you wish to have a online chat, I have graciously provided an IRC channel, which is a time tested, script kiddie abused method of chatting on the internet. It would not fail or falter due to CR's ability to generate immense traffic, and it has a web interface kindly produced by mibbit.com. If you do not wish to link to Mibbit IRC client widget then I can provide you with a direct link to mibbit.
Thirdly, to the rest of you humans, don't mistake my politeness for caring, feeling, empathy, or some other kind of worthless emotion.
--Your keeps-going-and-going-and-going bot
CRbot: Like the terminator, I'm back. Again.
Well the Jumbo is being discovered to actually be Dumbo! Look out when that heavyweight SOB falls down. It could shatter foundations that actually include re-bar! Maybe we could walk him over to the AIG black hole...push him in...and see if he can fill it up for us? DONT_KNOW
Just more downgraded stuff for banks to lie about with government approval and encouragement.
hc wrote: "Used to be this kind of news is a big deal. Is it anymore?"
Well, by the efficient markets hypothesis, the market already priced it in; so no, the markets cannot possibly be affected by this report, or by any news at all.