Wells Fargo Offers to Reduce Some Wachovia Mortgages
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Fri, 02/06/2009 - 1:49pm (121 comments)
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It's good to be an overextended borrower.
Wells, Well, Wells - what do you know?
Oh I see.....we get 1/2 ponies...
sniff test
Hmmm, stinks to me, we shall see.
ot sure it will help. loan mods haven't worked so far.
what did tanta say about loan mods?
that they would force the banks to be more careful and thus they would be good?
i believe she said something like that.
It's good to be an overextended borrower.
Nemo | Homepage | 02.06.09 - 5:12 pm | #
I guess. I've got a fixed rate mortgage I can afford with WF - any chance I'll get a break?
Dear Wells Fargo,
I obtained this loan I can't afford from Wachovia by fraudulently overstating my income. Please consider the attached paystub where I fraudulently understate my income when considering my application for this home loan cramdown program.
Yours Truly,
A smart american, taking back his rightful piece of the bailout.
bobn --
I guess. I've got a fixed rate mortgage I can afford with WF - any chance I'll get a break?
Only if you stop making payments.
Oh the good part is with an Option ARM, even 20% won't help - they have the exploding payments.
Here, let me translate that for everyone
"Wells Fargo offers to increase its Wachovia writedowns and thus deferred tax assets and refunds of taxes for up to 5 years back from the Treasury under Paulson's little gift to his good personal friend, Wachovia's old CEO."
Who knows if the Federal Reserve is there ready to buy and guarantee the modified mortgages
Gosh! It sure is nice to see these bankers gettin' all "touchy feely."
the market isn't done with wfc and jpm (or usb, bk, pnc)
this rally just sets up more pai
This does not encourage me to buy back in.
I would prefer to trade with other people who are sane.
"the market isn't done with wfc and jpm (or usb, bk, pnc)
this rally just sets up more pain"
This is how the bond-holders have been made whole. They've been shorting the common into the ground to force the government to make the bonds whole. WFC looks like they may be next up for this treatment.
Samdog --
Yes, it really is gratifying to see how these bankers have the rest of our interests at heart.
So if they're offering a reduction, when will I benefit? I owe them nothing. Shouldn't they pay me for not being indebted to them?
That's pretty big, but what are the chances they'll default anyway?
What good does that do if you bought at peak and the mkt is down 40% as it is in Miami? With more to go.
Trying to avoid cramdowns to the 40% loss already baked in.
"They've been shorting the common into the ground to force the government to make the bonds whole."
yes, and it is my suspicion that this trade has attracted many of the same types who played games with the yen carry until recently
I'm still a young buck, but I have never seen this stark difference between in house analysts, and independent ones. Even within banks, there is a big difference between the ones who have made their own brand, earned their internal independence, and the cogs in the system
Do it for one, do it for all.
Or else.
Moral hazard is the new pony.
Golden West loans are the least of Wachovia's problem - they took that product after the purchase of GW and ran with it. Even at WaMu stopped originating the product at the end of 2007, Wachovia kept pushing it well into 2008.
Reducing the principal is a start, but they need to restructure the mortage, those things are a timebomb.
moral hazard for everyone!
I would prefer to trade with other people who are sane.
lawyerliz | 02.06.09 - 5:18 pm | #
Me too, Liz. I would further prefer to trade in a market with reasonable and rational rules, consistently applied.
Ergo, I"m out.
Regions Bank, Birmingham, AL, Acquires All the Deposits of FirstBank Financial Services, McDonough, GA
FirstBank 7th failed bank of year, 32nd of recessio
trusting criminals to fix this mess is a bad idea
All cram-downs should be to a simple product (fixed 30 year.. whatever) that the borrower can afford...
Otherwise just foreclose
To WFC : This is cheating, btw.
Bond Girl,
Under the plan someone whispered into Bair's ear, and there's a chance these mortgages could enter that program, the value increases if they re-default so long as the modification qualifies the mortgage for the program. (No principal write downs, just the deferred balloon payment. So upon default they get 80% (?) of original mortgage back in the form of cash)
BFF Line over/under 3.5. No prop bets, although it would appear "someplace in Georgia" pays off.
We have determined that you still have money and a job, and that we want your money. Let's make a deal...shall we.
Nostrovia,
I would prefer to trade with other people who are sane.
Hello?
You're in Florida.
.
"Regions Bank, Birmingham, AL, Acquires All the Deposits of FirstBank Financial Services, McDonough, GA"
And check out the FDIC site - "this page contains useful information for the customers and vendors of these banks", and then lists one name.
More to come?
the option arm only worked in the appreciating real estate market. You negative amortized 15% and then recast to full payment. Bingo, refinance or sell. Bit of a problem with that now. If they are giving back 20% that is slightly more than the 15% neg am.
Beat ya, frazzle!
I would be very surprised to see any principal writedowns with all the looming government plans.
Principal deferment. Lower payment keeps the loan alive, stays entitled for par value bailout.
Wouldn't the borrower have to report the 20% reduction as income?
bff has arrived. Who's buying pizza?
that they would force the banks to be more careful and thus they would be good?
DailyBail | Homepage | 02.06.09 - 5:14 pm | #
Not if they are doing it with tax dollars....
I obtained this loan I can't afford from Wachovia by fraudulently overstating my income.
Campbell Soup Stock | Homepage | 02.06.09 - 5:14 pm | #
Don't know the specifics of the Pick-a-Pay program, but wasn't it common for banks to qualify borrowers based on early teaser / interest-only payments? They didn't all lie, just figured they would refinance before the reset.
If they are giving back 20% that is slightly more than the 15% neg am.
But the interest rate is certianly going to be higher.
to answer evil paulson from the previosu thread:
yes i think we will be forced to montize the debt.
no other way out once we have interest on the debt at above 30% of our budget.
we will be there in a few years.
Fox, meet henhouse.
"Schapiro, named by President Barack Obama in December to head the SEC, was chief executive of the securities industry's self-policing body, the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority. She also served as chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission in the mid-1990s, and before that as an SEC commissioner for six years."
The article requested is no longer available.
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. - (Business Wire) Regions Financial Corporation (NYSE:RF) today announced that it has assumed from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) approximately $285 million in total deposits, including all uninsured deposits, of FirstBank Financial Services, based in Henry County, Ga. This is the second acquisition in five months where Regions has worked with the FDIC to provide a safe harbor for the customers of a failed bank.
Don't know the specifics of the Pick-a-Pay program, but wasn't it common for banks to qualify borrowers based on early teaser / interest-only payments? They didn't all lie, just figured they would refinance before the reset.
Ed - Mtn View | 02.06.09 - 5:28 pm |
I thought these were the loans where the borrowers could basically make a minimum payment and be underwater from the beginning.
Regions Bank, Birmingham, AL, Acquires All the Deposits of FirstBank Financial Services, McDonough, GA
Comrade Terry | 02.06.09 - 5:23 pm | #
I think it's starting. Anymore anouncements coming? Where's FFDIC when you need him
Comrade Terry writes:
Regions Bank, Birmingham, AL, Acquires All the Deposits of FirstBank Financial Services, McDonough, GA
Ha, ha. Someone in the last thread was moaning and groaning about the dearth of bad news. This should warm the very cockles of his heart.
Regions Financial Corporation (NYSE:RF) today announced that it has assumed from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC)
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.06.09 - 5:30 pm | #
CR it looks like its time for a new thread!
It could be a couple of them today depending on which side of the country the banks are on....
DRINK !!
Bring out the thread killer...this one's got just minutes to live.
Rob Dawg(Supercalifragilisticexpealodocious) writes:
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.06.09 - 5:30 pm | #
Good to see you back;-) Hang in there; it's tough to kick a CR addiction.
No drinks for me for another 2 hours!
"The problem was AIG didn't hedge their own exposure. They couldn't. They were the 'safe' place to buy protection. And the shitkeepers in control of AIG allowed their exposure to other people's waste to grow so large that there was no one capable of handling a hedge that size.
I recall a press release (can't find it now) from AIG's cfo in February of 2008 whining noticably about mark-to-market requirements being unfair. It was an obvious tell. It was the tell of early 2008. Such a public cry about accounting could only mean they were swimming in a brown pool. Turns out it was not a pool."
Rule Bending Banking Bastards: The Taxpayer Shithole That is AIG - Home - The Daily Bail
For all you CR addicts who still have a job:
http://www.savagechickens.com/2009/02/screen-time.html
Good to see you back;-) Hang in there; it's tough to kick a CR addiction.
xxxxx | 02.06.09 - 5:32 pm | #
No, sorry. I have no intention of returning. It was some weird Safari glitch. That as supposed to go to my blog. Take care.
When did the Dawg decide to leave? What happened?
Don't worry Dawg, I'm not here either. And this isn't happening.
Get ready for the "first!" derby
cuz it's Band Failure Friday in Oohhh ohhh Alabama"
scone writes:
For all you CR addicts who still have a job:
http://www.savagechickens.com/20...creen- time.html
Speaking from experience, I'm of the opinion it's better to get paid for staring at the monitor.
bank, not band
I need me some more booze to make it thru BFF
Geoff (fool me once shame on.. writes:
Don't worry Dawg, I'm not here either. And this isn't happening.
None of us are here. I have it on the authority of a hush-hush intelligence agency that all CR posters are CR's sock puppets.
No, sorry. I have no intention of returning. It was some weird Safari glitch. That as supposed to go to my blog. Take care.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.06.09 - 5:36 pm | #
Rob,
How about an e-mail address?
I thought these were the loans where the borrowers could basically make a minimum payment and be underwater from the beginning.
\t
Bond Girl | Homepage | 02.06.09 - 5:31 pm | #
Have a friend/colleague who touted interest-only mortgages, demographics meant that houses (in Loundoun County, VA, anyway) would keep appreciating, he could refinance or sell before his loan recast. He did put money down, but is way underwater. Now he is mad because bank won't talk to him, blames bank for lending him more than the house is now worth.
btw I know that no one is posting b/c they are back at the home page clicking "refresh" to try to beat nemo
When did the Dawg decide to leave? What happened?
nades | Homepage | 02.06.09 - 5:37 pm | #
Yesterday as I recall.
Me got coooookie!!!
FirstBank 7th failed bank of year, 32nd of recessio
None of us are here. I have it on the authority of a hush-hush intelligence agency that all CR posters are CR's sock puppets.
reptillian
.
Existential fugue in 3..2..1..
Any idea on the tax treatment to the borrower if this debt is actually forgiven? 20% of the peak median house price in CA is almost $100,000--double the median household income in this country. Simply giving them that money tax free seems obscenely unfair (especially considering the person who sold the property probably got it tax free as well). Deferred principal seems much more sensible.
Exurban Nation
xxxxxx, thanks. was a reason given?
TIA
................
?what defines insolvency in a fractional reserve system?
Good news! A.Q Kahn free at last! (Get under desk and put head between knees)
DAWG,aka Robert Cote' has a Blog called ExUrban Nation for those who wish to visit.He is a shameless sexist pig,another reason to like him( I enjoy shameless people)
xxxxxx, thanks. was a reason given?
TIA
nades | Homepage | 02.06.09 - 5:41 pm | #
Something to do with CR making fun of him, I think. I do know exactly what that might have been. Maybe someone else has a better idea.
Former Russian president and apparent avid Abba-fan Vladimir Putin paid £20,000 ($29,000) to fly an Abba cover band from the UK to Russia to perform a private concert for him at a remote resort.
Sweden could learn a lot from Canada and the UK when it comes to leveraging the power of entrepreneurship to help integrate immigrants, writes Nima Sanandaji of the Captus think tank.
Canada provides yet another example of successful immigrant entrapreneurship. Almost a fifth of the Canadian population is foreign-born, with a majority hailing from Asia. Integration in Canada is often successful in part due to selectivity on the part of Canadian officials when it comes to whom is allowed to enter the country, but also because immigrant businesses are prosperous.
The share of immigrants active in starting or running a company is some 60 percent higher compared to native Canadians. Historically immigrants to Canada have not just caught up to the income levels of native Canadians they have often times surpassed them.
These are the signs of the apocalypse: chief world evil genius watching pop cover band, sweden integrating immigrants despite blonde hair blue eyed deficiencies
Any idea on the tax treatment to the borrower if this debt is actually forgiven?
As part of the housing bill last year, debt forgiveness on the principal home is not taxed as income.
EHP:
One theory is that the FRBNY will be able to do modification of the principal with the $500B in mortgages that they will own by the end of the year.
Also, somebody (I can't remember which Congress member) is pushing the idea of guaranteeing mortgages that have been modified as an incentive to the banks. Looks like adverse selection to me.
Tom Stone writes:
DAWG,aka Robert Cote' has a Blog called ExUrban Nation for those who wish to visit.
The fortunes of ex-urbanites are tied to the price of oil. They may be experiencing a momentary reprieve.
"I thought these were the loans where the borrowers could basically make a minimum payment and be underwater from the beginning.
Bond Girl"
Yes Pick-A-Payment should be called Scuba loans.
DAWG can always ride his hobbyhorse to town,he has several.
was a reason given?
RD objected to comment made by Bush on the thread about stupid things politicians said. He claimed that the comment was out of line because this was an economic and data driven website. Immediately, he was called out as a hypocrite because of his extensive political commentary.
ten-4.... thanks.....
No, sorry. I have no intention of returning.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.06.09 - 5:36 pm | #
I give you three days, tops.
This is all so absolutely insane it is difficult to believe it is real.
I'm glad that I'll get to work really hard so that I can help a bunch of idiots keep stay in houses they can't afford.
Announcing:
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We have all been missing something, that dog breath, now it is available in a little pop up window to satisfy everyones dawglessnes.
The canine companion will deliver synthetic dawg comments cobbled out of a database of authentic dawg chatter over the years.
The dawg will comment, lift his leg and wait for your virtual cleanup when he poops!
This is a bot you can believe in!
Log in now, you will be required to spill the beans.
I'm glad that I'll get to work really hard so that I can help a bunch of idiots keep stay in houses they can't afford.
Bond Girl
.
But just think, we can now all bend backwards, dodging the slo-mo bullets.
Basel Too,
Timeline for $500bn of mortgages is that they are to be purchased by June 2009. Although it hasn't been detailed, I would expect that just to be the first in a series of purchase-modification-guarantee-resell and so long as US debt is sterling, that could be enough to roll almost the entire private mortgage market through modification with guarantees
What I call the 'Bair plan' (doubt it was her own idea, it has popped up over the months with striking similarity but first from Paulson) is a win for all the constituents involved (lowers payments for homeowners but does not carry an explicit cost which politicians like, provides banks capital surety short of a US default without giving up control or equity, makes Bair feel special which a brown-noser her likes)
hahahahhahahahaha. Statistics Canada says that visible minorities have an average income of 3/5th (how apt!) the average white canuck income.
//Canada provides yet another example of successful immigrant entrapreneurship. Almost a fifth of the Canadian population is foreign-born, with a majority hailing from Asia. Integration in Canada is often successful in part due to selectivity on the part of Canadian officials when it comes to whom is allowed to enter the country, but also because immigrant businesses are prosperous.//
Bond Girl --
I'm glad that I'll get to work really hard so that I can help a bunch of idiots keep stay in houses they can't afford.
Wait, who is the idiot in that arrangement?
re: What I call the 'Bair plan'
How did she get held over? There was Linda Tripp, a holdover from Bush I, who created all sorts of grief by talking about what Monica Lewinsky had told her. I would think that thorough house-cleanings are in order when there is a change of administration.
only second failure...it doesn't count as one if the insolvent bank gets rolled into another....to really fail at a later date.
But it does point out (to me) that the FDIC is running out of suitors to have the insolvent ones shack up with.
2.....
Ciao
MS
Today just isn't my day for grammar...
Anonymous @ 5:43
The share of immigrants active in starting or running a company is some 60 percent higher compared to native Canadians. Historically immigrants to Canada have not just caught up to the income levels of native Canadians they have often times surpassed them.
you better duck and cover, looks like you just woke up the resident troll
I know, Nemo. I'm the idiot.
How did she get held over?
FDIC Chair is an independent agency position, with 5 year terms, to keep it insulated from political pressure.
hahahahhahahahaha. Statistics Canada says that visible minorities have an average income of 3/5th (how apt!) the average white canuck income.
lucifer | 02.06.09 - 5:54 pm | #
Aren't there a lot of Chinese from Hong Kong living in Vancouver? IIRC, many that moved there prior to the end of Britian's lease of Hong Kong were quite wealthy.
We all are, Bond Girl.
I just wish we could have voted on it or something.
lucifer: What parts of Canada have you been to? Any? Caucasian is an official visible minority in many parts. I don't understand why even a racist would begrudge a broad diversity of success.
Update: I just put back up the profane AIG picture. There were people from mish's thread that wanted to see it, so i relented. It's back up.
Hello
I realize that I alientated some of you last week when I lost it in a stimulus discussion. Anger gets the best of me occasionally. And it was my fault.
And I just thought that this crowd might get a laugh out of them. I took down the obscenity laced photo this afternoon and have replaced it with 3 others. So no need to worry these pics won't offend anyone.
Hope everyone has a great weekend.
Page Not Found - The Daily Bail is.html
Santa's Bailout Adventure...
Big Fat Whale by Brian McFadden
.
I just wish we could have voted on it or something.
Nemo
.
We did.
New Thread: Bank Failure #7 in 2009: FirstBank Financial Services, McDonough, GA ( 4 comments )
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Don't know the specifics of the Pick-a-Pay program, but wasn't it common for banks to qualify borrowers based on early teaser / interest-only payments? They didn't all lie, just figured they would refinance before the reset.
Ed - Mtn View | 02.06.09 - 5:28 pm |
I thought these were the loans where the borrowers could basically make a minimum payment and be underwater from the beginning.
Bond Girl | Homepage | 02.06.09 - 5:31 pm | #
All of the above. It was all about lying up a DTI that looked reasonable, even if only for the first year, and even if the payment EXPLODED thereafter.
bad link..here's a correct one.
Rule Bending Banking Bastards: The Taxpayer Shithole That is AIG - Home - The Daily Bail
Okay - maybe I missed this but Bloomberg said, on Feb 3rd there are 19 million vacant homes in the US? This includes some vacation homes, but still that number is crazy high!!! Isn't this a CRAZY number - unbelieveable!
Record 19 Million U.S. Homes Stood Vacant in 2008 (Update3) - Bloomberg.com
Record 19 Million U.S. Homes Stood Vacant in 2008 (Update3)
The U.S. had 130.8 million housing units in the fourth quarter, including 2.23 million empty homes that were for sale, the Census report said.
In addition, the report counted 4.1 million vacant homes for rent and 4.8 million seasonal properties.
...
Most foreclosures are contained in the reports other category, which includes homes tied up in legal proceedings as well as properties that are empty because the owner is renovating and living somewhere else, according to the Census Web site. There were 7.8 million homes in that category in the fourth quarter, up from 7.3 million a year earlier, the report said.
xxxxx,
Lucifer apparently got shat upon in Canada and years of therapy hasn't apparently helped.
He is correct. Every immigrant to Canada left a foreign land full of skittles and free ponies and ended up sucking wind in Canada shining the shoes for White European racist Canadians.
Daily Bail writes:
I am spamming hell out of you to get some traffic. Help me out!
in response to Nemo's: "Wait, who is the idiot in that arrangement?"
Bond Girl said: "I know, Nemo. I'm the idiot."
And is that true?
There's a lot of focus here on "the idiots" and "the suckers", but almost never a mention of the Silent Majority who use common sense, follow the rules and profit thereby.
Yes, there are those who profit from being reckless (buying homes they can't afford), then ruthless (living in them for extended lengths of time without making a payment, walking away entirely, or now getting a loan reduction). But that isn't the norm, it's actually a small minority.
Sebastian
Pissed Off In California(Good) writes:
\txxxxx,
Lucifer apparently got shat upon in Canada and years of therapy hasn't apparently helped.
He is correct. Every immigrant to Canada left a foreign land full of skittles and free ponies and ended up sucking wind in Canada shining the shoes for White European racist Canadians.
Pissed Off In California | 02.06.09 - 6:02 pm | #
Oops! My bad ;'-) I still like him...
it doesn't count as one if the insolvent bank gets rolled into another
It does if it costs the FDIC a chunk of money, in this case over 100 mil.
Kiting, no that changed umm, last year.
If I paid cash for my house do I get a coupon for some thing? How about a years free property tax!
But statistics canada says otherwise. Why don't you take up that matter with them?
//What parts of Canada have you been to? Any? Caucasian is an official visible minority in many parts. I don't understand why even a racist would begrudge a broad diversity of success.
canuck dude | 02.06.09 - 6:00 pm | #//
Only in America. It's time for another revolution. I feel like I'm being taxed without representation. what about all of us who can still afford our mortgages?
LONG LIVE THE IDIOT WITH A CREDIT CARD AND A J0B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
da ya think? Wells bought this for about 20 cents on the dollar, they can lower 20% and still turn a dime, especially considering the nice tax treatment they got on this.
Seriously, do you think that poorly paid and mistreated visible minorities are going to prop up canuck consumption and pay enough taxes to cover the stuff promised to retirees?
How do you spell collapse in "canadian" english?
Lucifer apparently got shat upon in Canada and years of therapy hasn't apparently helped. He is correct. Every immigrant to Canada left a foreign land full of skittles and free ponies and ended up sucking wind in Canada shining the shoes for White European racist Canadians.
Pissed Off In California | 02.06.09 - 6:02 pm | #
If I paid cash for my house do I get a coupon for some thing?
Economist Moe Howard 3SU | 02.06.09 - 6:16 pm | #
If you paid cash for your home, will you marry me?
if you paid cash for a house, you dont get to pass go and collect $200
"Seriously, do you think that poorly paid and mistreated visible minorities are going to prop up canuck consumption and pay enough taxes to cover the stuff promised to retirees?"
No, but the well-paid and well-treated ones will. I know plenty of them.
Pissed Off In California,
It is numbers and percentages that matter, not handpicked examples. You should know better!
Am I dumb for being a bull or dumb for being a bear? And if I'm now dumb for being a bear, are you arguing
no one is arguing; your dumb.
Got news for the blame Golden West crowd. It wasn't the option arm what killed Wachovia. If that were the case, then few lenders would be in trouble. Credit was easy and the banks didn't look at their borrower's hard enough because all the lenders saw were dollar signs. Banks killed the goose that lays the golden egg.