Man, that is some serious pork on the hoof in that foto. I can seem doing purple shooters at Hooters afterwards. Everytime they go to the mens room they come back with a wet spot on their trousers.
Back in 2005 I posted frequently on the progress of the proposed new guidance. I spoke with a number of regulators in 2005 and 2006 who were involved in the process, and a number of them expressed frustration with both the Fed and the OTS. - CR
CR, Did any of them have a guess back then that it would go this far, be this bad?
dryfly, some people were seriously worried ... but we never talked about how bad it would get. I was always trying to figure out what was being done to improve oversight and tighten lending, and they were telling me what they were doing - and expressing frustration.
People need to realize the Greenspan, Reich and others were free market ideologues. You can see that in the quote in the post:
[Reich] cautioned that the government should not interfere with lending by thrifts "who have demonstrated that they have the know-how to manage these products through all kinds of economic cycles."
Obviously not true.
In my view, Reich and Gilleran (the two OTS chairman) should be on the top 10 list of people to blame - and the media never mentions them!
CR,
Seeing that you are here, how does this recession stack up against the early 80's version? Data and numerically the 80's one seems worse yet there was not the economic bailout gymnastics that we have now. What changed besides the bagholders?
The first few weeks of this administration showed how poorly planned out these cabinet selections were. The goal is to put your cabinet together, and then get the wink/nod from the approval process and get on with it. It's been a debacle so far.
Haven't heard much lately from Hillary or Joe. I imagine they've been neutered at this point.
Oh well, it's not like there's any major issues to tackle. Hope we don't get a disruptive terror event, because the leadership would look even more indecisive, and that's really saying something.
US and Anglo-Saxon Housing Bubble Discussion in Germany
Todays topic: statistikvoodoo von california realtors (car) immobilienblasen
Even I can understand the meaning of the above topic. It is not as easy to lead Germans into the kind of self-destructive behavior that Americans, Australians and the Brits have been led into in recent years. To paraphrase Mark Twain: Prosperity is the best breeder of stupidity, I know. And no one has enjoyed more prosperity and longer than Californians. So, we know why they have been misbehavin so badly.
I bet that Germans are having fun talking about the absurd behavior that led to the Housing Bubble in the Anglo countries
Germany coming back is a very temporary phenomenon. The US economy, led by the US Housing Bubble Burst, will take the whole world economies down with it. Poor Arabs will get the worst of it, though, followed by India and China. The real bubble economy is one of Dubai.
One more thing regarding trade that might be of interest to a few here and especially dryfly and EHP.
I watched a Swiss TV segment recently about Swiss manufacturers that had established manufacturing operations in China over the past few years.
What was especially interesting is that they changed their strategy from engineering in Switzerland to relocating their engineering to China (sending key Swiss engineers along) to modify and adapt their products to the Chinese supply chain in order to reduce overall product costs. They mentioned that they could still deliver near their present quality but would be able to reduce their overall costs by 30% to 50%.
What was striking is that they weren't reducing their commitment to China but jumping all in because in order to survive in this horrible economy they had to produce at much lower prices. It also supports, in part, why Chinese imports dropped much more than exports. Obviously, lower raw material and energy costs make up the bulk of the rest.
This Swiss manufactures approach is in line with my thinking where I expressed doubts that China would mirror the U.S. experience in the Great Depression. If you have GDP per capita at a fraction of your primary export markets, it makes sense to follow the model that these Swiss companies are following IMO.
"The first few weeks of this administration showed how poorly planned out these cabinet selections were. The goal is to put your cabinet together, and then get the wink/nod from the approval process and get on with it. It's been a debacle so f"
did you miss the last 8 years when every person in the white house was a criminal and/or incompetent (usually both)?
Gregg is a scumbag trying to play games.... good riddance
By the end of Obama's first year in office, many of the old guard will have gone the way of Reich. He only needed them for the transition. Feckless Ness | 02.12.09 - 8:10 pm | #
JJL, the early '80s recession was very different (well, we had a surge in oil prices leading up to the recession and a few other similarities), but the problems were very different - and so was the medicine. Volcker had to raise rates to kill inflation - this time we are struggling with a bursting asset bubble (and loose credit).
CR,
Thanks for the input. As I am only early 30's I have no real world memory of the early 80's recession. I do remember a brutal housing bust in the late 80's (my mom was recently divorced in 1991 and tried to refi the house that appraised for 250k in 1988 only to have the new appraisal come in at 100k) and there were no major programs to stop the bust then either. Something has changed and we need to pin it down.
Im really scared of what could happen, because I bought property here, said Sofia, who asked that her last name be withheld because she is still hunting for a new job. If I cant pay it off, I was told I could end up in debtors prison.
Wow, if we had that here, about 75% of the population would be in prison!
This is Jan-Martin. He is not your regular German. He has been heavily involved in U.S. bear blogs for several years. He was a regular here and particularly at Russ Winter.
Whenever you see a post (like this) that starts with "Moin" and from a poster called jmf then you know it is the author of Immobilienblasen.
Funny, in my How to Kill the Golden Goose 101, they taught me to use a shotgun. However, in graduate level How to Kill a Golden Goose classes, I was told to form a Bad Goose Bank.
"create a cheaper, commoditized version of your product, keep the same brand identity, and devalue the concept by associating it with the cultural stigma of Sanka and Taster's Choice"
I like the Bad Goose Bank, though. What'r'ya paying for a 5 year cd.?
They were slitting OUR throats and knew EXACTLY what they were doing...and making quite a profit I might add..Salary Preservation=TARP
Money Man | 02.12.09 - 8:23 pm |
money man i ws thinkin that too as i typed it...
but then on reflection im willing to bet none of these guys even runs for dog catcher ever agai
You giving odds on that action? You know, being a sportsfan, an' all. Feckless Ness | 02.12.09 - 8:20 pm | #
No odds, just a sportsfan, not a bookie.
But I do have the feeling that Geithner was a transition guy for the middle of a deepening crisis. By going to the NY Fed, and someone who had been in the decision making process of TARP 1, he picked someone who wouldn't alienate the banksters or Wall Street. Also, by allowing policies to be implemented that were not radically different than his predecessor's policies, he was avoiding an early label as a radical and a complete shutdown of support from Republicans.
Now that there's been a complete shutdown of support, it only remains for Geithner's policies to fail and Obama can make a complete break from that process and start the nationalization with a new face.
President Obama today repeated the claim we asked about yesterday at the press briefing that Jim Owens, the CEO of Caterpillar, Inc., "said that if Congress passes our plan, this company will be able to rehire some of the folks who were just laid off."
Asked if the stimulus package would be able to stop the 22,000 layoffs or not, Owens said, "I think realistically no. The truth is we're going to have more layoffs before we start hiring again"
Europe's industrial base may never recover from crisis
The European Commission has issued a red alert over the unprecedented collapse of industrial production, warning that EU states are running out of money for rescue packages.
Going forward asset bubbles will be contained to sharp, volitaile moves between Dow 7,800 and 8,200. Long on the way up, short on the way down. Hey, it works until it doesn't
(destroying social security was always the plan,,,run gov into bankruptcy, disable gov etc so social programs have to be dropped)
from econ view
"Looting Social Security, by William Greider, The Nation: Governing elites in Washington and Wall Street have devised a fiendishly clever "grand bargain" they want President Obama to embrace in the name of "fiscal responsibility." The government, they argue, having spent billions on bailing out the banks, can recover its costs by looting the Social Security system. They are also targeting Medicare and Medicaid. The pitch sounds preposterous to millions of ordinary working people anxious about their economic security and worried about their retirement years. But an impressive armada is lined up to push the idea--Washington's leading think tanks, the prestige media, tax-exempt foundations, skillful propagandists posing as economic experts and a self-righteous billionaire spending his fortune to save the nation from the elderly. ... This swindle is portrayed as "fiscal reform." In fact, it's the political equivalent of bait-and-switch fraud.
Does Jim Owens not understand "the paradox of thrift"? Perhaps he needs a sit down with a keynesian clown to understand he needs his company to bleed cash instead of trying to survive.
The Swiss do final assembly at home? So they can put Made in Switzerland on it? nova | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 8:19 pm | #
I wouldn't be surprised if they'd find a way to do that. Obviously senior management, the head engineer and quality assurance is still Swiss even in China. This is where they felt their big edge would come from. Much lower cost and reasonable retention of quality. It looked like they didn't have any other options left. I believe it make a trend...
"The government, they argue, having spent billions on bailing out the banks, can recover its costs by looting the Social Security system. They are also targeting Medicare and Medicaid."
Yep, here they come folks. They are after every program they can gut ...
Find your Congressman and Senators, then E-mail and call !
That's a fair take, Elvis. It'll justify going a completely different direction when the stimulus fails to revive the economy. Feckless Ness | 02.12.09 - 8:14 pm | #
I suspect it will do a wonderful job of delaying any recovery as the economy will be clogged by all of these, "if your BK and you know it, clap your hands," banks.
"....in a profile of Frank for the January 12 edition of The New Yorker, staff writer Jeffrey Toobin wrote: "According to Frank, at the root of the real-estate crisis was a misguided notion that homeownership should be available to all people -- what President Bush has called 'the ownership society.' " Toobin quoted Frank saying in a speech that homeownership "is not suitable for everybody."
FRANK: Mr. Speaker, we have a national goal of increasing homeownership. Homeownership is very important. I always want to make it clear to people that while homeownership is very important, it should not be considered all of our goal in the housing area. A large number of people, for economic reasons and other reasons, will be renters. It is a good thing if we can help people become homeowners, but we should not neglect the legitimate interests of renters."
They mentioned that they could still deliver near their present quality but would be able to reduce their overall costs by 30% to 50%. RE | 02.12.09 - 8:16 pm | #
Boy have I heard that one before. How long have they been up and running? Have they been hit by the surprize import inspections yet?
No place in the United States is likely to escape a long and deep recession. Nonetheless, as the crisis continues to spread outward from New York, through industrial centers like Detroit, and into the Sun Belt, it will undoubtedly settle much more heavily on some places than on others. Some cities and regions will eventually spring back stronger than before. Others may never come back at all. As the crisis deepens, it will permanently and profoundly alter the countrys economic landscape. I believe it marks the end of a chapter in American economic history, and indeed, the end of a whole way of life.
The housing bubble was the ultimate expression, and perhaps the last gasp, of an economic system some 80 years in the making, and now well past its sell-by date.
The "outreach sessions" to bankers correlates with the foreclosure map well:
"We are calling on bankers to help us determine how to improve and streamline the regulatory process," Reich continued. "We are serious about this effort, we are committed to it, and we intend to achieve results." he said the three-year time frame would allow sufficient time to solicit "substantial and significant" input from bankers as well as consumer groups and other interested parties.
To solicit bankers' views, the agencies are conducting banker outreach sessions in five U.S. cities. The events are scheduled for Orlando (June 11), St. Louis (June 26), Denver (July 15), San Francisco (Sept. 18) and New York (Oct. 15). ACB members interested in participating may contact Charlotte Bahin, senior vice president, for regulatory affairs, at (202) 857-3121 for further details.
What economic system will replace the current one?
The traditional American system was based on
manufacturing, farming and resource extraction.
The current failing system is based on a Ponzi scheme. I can't imagine what comes next.
"The housing bubble was the ultimate expression, and perhaps the last gasp, of an economic system some 80 years in the making, and now well past its sell-by date."
"The housing bubble was the ultimate expression, and perhaps the last gasp, of an economic system some 80 years in the making, and now well past its sell-by date."
I don't know about 80.... but I would definitely say 30 years....
Boy have I heard that one before. How long have they been up and running? Have they been hit by the surprize import inspections yet? Blackhalo | 02.12.09 - 8:46 pm | #
Yes, they were up and running. Very experienced folks actually with well established operations in China. However, the real change was to fully adopt parts and materials from the Chinese supply chain instead of importing European parts.
As I said, I believe this is a trend in the making...
marxists.org... is that like che-lives? They sell a bunch of really cool shirts and stuff - bet they make a killing.
They don't seem to be into capitalism, but they do sell some books and DVDs. Some other people are doing the t-shirts. Marx's book could put me to sleep.
think back to the Obama press conference the night before Geithner's testimony.
a reporter asked Obama about the bank bail out plan and Obama responded by saying he did not want to ruin Geithner's "moment in the sun."
what did that mean?
Did Obama mean he couldn't describe the "plan"? Doubtful. A day later Obama went on Nightline and was able to compare the Japanese vs Swedish handling of bank crises.
So what did Obama mean? Why wouldn't he want to step out front to preview such a big program?
Here's why:
Because the program is not supposed to work, but proposing it is supposed flush out criticism that will push the administration to a more radical step, nationalization or the like.
Geithner went out in public to be the lightening rod, to take the flak. Geithner is the decoy duck to get the real ducks out for shooting. Geithner is the crash test dummy, to be banged up in collisions so that when the real leader goes forward with the real plan it will be safe and work.
Geithner is not the brains behind the throne. He is a tool of the administration and went out to take one for the team, which means for Obama.
Make all the tool jokes you want. But learn to read the playbook.
IMO free market fundamentalists are just as bad as communists... you gotta have balance in life... The Bush Depression is here! | 02.12.09 - 8:53 pm | #
I hear you. Markets need to be fair as well as free, and a little bit of a saftey-net for the least among us is a benifit to all.
The Swiss have several organizations to ensure the integrity and reputation of Swiss watchmakers. The accepted standard for what constitutes a Swiss-made watch is a Swiss movement, set into its case in Switzerland, by a manufacturer of Swiss origin.
A Swiss movement is defined as a movement that was assembled in Switzerland (by a Swiss-based manufacturer), and whose Swiss movement parts constitute 50% or more of a movement's total value. Movements that meet this requirement will carry a stamp (on the watch's face or back of the case) with the words "Swiss," "Swiss Made," "Swiss Quartz," "Suisse," "Produit Suisse" or "Fabrique en Suisse." The former three are the most popular in North America.
Want to revisit our discussion a few threads back?
Presidential appointees resign when the President wants them to resign, with few exceptions.
Shela Bair stays because Obama wants her there.
I'm curious why Reich left, but Obama can't make him leave. This is interesting becuase it's the first strange resignation of a termed position in ages.
As I said, I believe this is a trend in the making... RE | 02.12.09 - 8:54 pm | #
This is a very old trend. We have been doing this for years. We were going to recude costs 50% and pay 10c on the dollar. But some beancouter ran the numbers on our first two years in operation, and with all the hidden costs included we were saving 10%
This is interesting becuase it's the first strange resignation of a termed position in ages.
Fair Economist | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 8:59 pm | #
Fair Econ,
you don't count as "strange" the US Attorneys who resigned when Bush's political office told them to resign, completely outside of custom, norm, and term, with no good cause except their political difference from Bush?
"I'm curious why Reich left, but Obama can't make him leave. This is interesting becuase it's the first strange resignation of a termed position in ages."
Could be that he was told to leave or the FBI would start looking into him...
The Enterprise is cooperating with OFHEO in accomplishing our mutual goal of remediation. As a result of the increased operational risk at Freddie Mac, OFHEO directed Freddie Macto maintain a targeted capital surplus of 30% over their minimum capital requirement. To date, Freddie Mac has maintained a surplus in compliance with this directive. http://www.ofheo.gov/media/pdf/
In lifting a 2006 consent order, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight said Tuesday that "two years of hard work" by Fannie Mae officials had resolved many internal accounting and management problems. Regulators will continue reducing surplus capital requirements imposed on Fannie Mae after the company was forced to restate several years of earnings, OFHEO said. On March 1 OFHEO removed a cap on the size of Fannie Mae's mortgage portfolio -- loans or mortgage-backed securities the company holds for investment.
Geithner is not the brains behind the throne. He is a tool of the administration and went out to take one for the team, which means for Obama. joe shmoe | 02.12.09 - 8:57 pm | #
This is a very new phenomena to me. Your saying the president is the brains of the outfit an not a fugurehead? What happens if he dicides to take advantage of all the new toys the previous admin left behind?
"This is a very old trend. We have been doing this for years. We were going to recude costs 50% and pay 10c on the dollar. But some beancouter ran the numbers on our first two years in operation, and with all the hidden costs included we were saving 10%"
I can tell you that a lot of software outsourcing has ended up being MORE expensive due to poor quality code that requires far more support expense
Did Obama mean he couldn't describe the "plan"? Doubtful. A day later Obama went on Nightline and was able to compare the Japanese vs Swedish handling of bank crises.
So what did Obama mean? Why wouldn't he want to step out front to preview such a big program?
He meant that the program had just been finished HOURS before and he probably hadn't even had time to see it yet. Heck, Timmy might have been revising as Obama answered the question. He'd have been an idiot to describe it.
He might have wanted to keep some distance from the program, but it's not because he's got plans of his own. He probably does understand it's a hot potato and just doesn't want to be holding it.
This is a very new phenomena to me. Your saying the president is the brains of the outfit an not a fugurehead? What happens if he dicides to take advantage of all the new toys the previous admin left behind? Blackhalo | 02.12.09 - 9:03 pm | #
That is just dawning on you now? I was telling my bush-loving conservative friends that back when Patriot I was being debated... I never imagined O would be pres someday but I certainly thought Hillary had a shot or somebody even farther left... I asked them 'Do you want Hillary to have all that power?' Their answer was always the same "America will never make that mistake." I've asked a couple of them since November and they don't say too much. The fools.
U.S. sales of video game hardware and software rose 13 percent in January from a year earlier, led by Nintendo Co Ltd's Wii console and DS hand-held systems, market researcher NPD said on Thursday.
The results presented more evidence that even in the middle of a brutal economic downturn, U.S. consumers are willing to spend on video games. Business finance news - currency market news - online UK currency markets - financial news - Interactive Investor
That's the same thing the Japanese did when their bubble broke. Stay at home and play with trinkets.
Generational memory lapse again?
Banking and law were..adjusted to a more popular view.
Back in GD1, when the farmers were losing their farms to foreclosure they showed up en masse to stop other bidders. An agrarian revolt was underway and almost got out of hand.
Remedies for Revolution
Feb. 06, 1933
Time
¶ At Nampa, Idaho, where a United Farmers' League was in process of organization, one William Ai Frost jumped up and shouted: "Just give me a six-shooter and four red-blooded men who will have the nerve to follow me and we'll make the Legislature put through any law we want." AGRICULTURE: Remedies for Revolution - TIME
In an interview, James Lockhart, the regulator that oversees Fannie Mae (FNM.P: Quote, Profile, Research) and Freddie Mac (FRE.P: Quote, Profile, Research), said the mortgage finance industry was eager to have a standardized mortgage modification standard.
"I've talked to all the major servicers -- both the big bank ones and the big independent ones -- and they are all ready to go, they're chomping at the bit," Lockhart, the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, said. "The other thing they're asking for standardization."
Germany coming back is a very temporary phenomenon. The US economy, led by the US Housing Bubble Burst, will take the whole world economies down with it. Poor Arabs will get the worst of it, though, followed by India and China. The real bubble economy is one of Dubai.
you don't count as "strange" the US Attorneys who resigned when Bush's political office told them to resign, completely outside of custom, norm, and term, with no good cause except their political difference from Bush?
US Attorneys DO serve at the pleasure of the President. There was never any question of Bush's right to request the resignation, except insofar as he was doing it to obstruct justice.
Bank regulators have used 38 percent of gross income as a benchmark for one mortgage relief program. If a homeowner is spending more than that amount on housing, they may qualify for a streamlined loan program, but the Obama administration may choose a lower percentage as a trigger for relief in any new plan.
In an interview, James Lockhart, the regulator that oversees government-controlled mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, told Reuters the industry was eager to have a standardized loan modification standard.
"I've talked to all the major servicers -- both the big bank ones and the big independent ones -- and they are all ready to go, they're chomping at the bit," Lockhart, the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, said. "The other thing they're asking for standardization."
Lockhart, however, declined to speculate on any plans the administration may be considering. The Treasury Department was not available for comment Thursday afternoon.
I get the distinct sense that we were slipping over the edge and ready to plunge into the deep dark abyss today. PPT reached out & bumped the market back up onto the slippery ledge. Just a matter of time.
Obamas Administration Developing Extended Loan Modification Plan Page not found - Mortgage Foundation
Barrack Obamas administration developed a braud outline of a plan to help fix the drastically increasing rate of foreclosures by creating incentives for borrowers and lenders to agree to modify mortgages that have fallen behind.The plan is a more aggressive version of James Lockharts, the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, plan that he developed for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac last year. The program Lockhart designed allowed borrowers who were 90 days delinquent on their loans to have their payments lowered to 38 percent of their income. It also allowed the loans to be extended from 30 to 40 years, and it also allowed the interest rate to be reduced as low as 3 percent to make the payments more affordable.
This is a very old trend. We have been doing this for years. We were going to recude costs 50% and pay 10c on the dollar. Blackhalo | 02.12.09 - 9:00 pm | #
Based on trading statistics both from China and the U.S., Chinese manufacturing depended a lot on imported parts. This is what these guys are changing and it forces them to relocate major engineering functions into China.
My point was that in contrast to what many are saying, we may very well see even MORE movement into China instead of manufacturers leaving China as a result of this severe downturn.
It is in fact all about competitiveness in this environment and with price pressures as severe as they are going to be, many have absolutely no choice.
US Attorneys DO serve at the pleasure of the President. There was never any question of Bush's right to request the resignation, except insofar as he was doing it to obstruct justice.
Fair Economist | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 9:11 pm | #
Fair Econ
The attornies typically resign when there is a transition. Bush's house cleaning mid-way through his Presidency was unprecedented. That was the first tip-off that something was wrong. Well, the first tip-off on that particular story. It was obvious that plenty was wrong long before that in other areas.
That is just dawning on you now? dryfly | 02.12.09 - 9:08 pm | #
No, but I am not a fan of either party but the schadenfreude is delish. I am a big lover of privacy rights and all personal freedoms and the actions W took in the name of fighting terrorism were asinine.
The Fannie and Freddie program allowed borrowers who were 90 days delinquent on a loan to have their payments lowered to 38 percent of their income. The loan could also be extended from 30 years to 40 years, and if that was not enough, the interest rate could be reduced to as low as 3 percent to make the payments more affordable.
Consumer advocates say the program was a good start in tackling the foreclosure problem but did not go far enough to help homeowners. For example, the effort did not include measures to cut the principal owed by borrowers whose home values have fallen below their mortgage loan amount. Another requirement -- that borrowers miss three payments before qualifying for help -- has been a troublesome issue, according to some consumer groups.
The government's new approach would make the terms more generous for both the borrowers and lenders. For instance, borrowers who missed only one payment might be able to qualify, Lockhart said. Lenders may be able to reduce payments to a lower percentage of a homeowner's income.
Officials are also planning to set national standards for when banks can legally modify a mortgage -- an important concern for loan servicers who can now only perform modifications that improve the value of the mortgage under the terms of their contracts with investors.
Lockhart said he hoped the new program would be attractive to loan holders, but he added that they had an obligation to increase their modification efforts.
The attornies typically resign when there is a transition. Bush's house cleaning mid-way through his Presidency was unprecedented. That was the first tip-off that something was wrong. Well, the first tip-off on that particular story. It was obvious that plenty was wrong long before that in other area
All true, but Bush did have the legal right to fire them. He did not, and Obama does not, have the right to fire Reich. Completely different situation.
Black dogtail,
didn't only like 5 mortgages qualify under lockharts plan the last time due to unreal income shortcomings and collpased prices? Will this be different? Is this not just a bad bank by a kinder, gentler name. After all, the problem with toxic assets are they are mortgage backed assets! Just repackaging of the same old hose the taxpayer scheme.
I made the same kind of argument with fellow lefty friends calling for hate speech codes on university campuses back in the early 90's. I suggested it might not be such a good idea to give that kind of power to a court system led by Sup Ct Chief Justice Rehnquist.... Several of them, established and prominent US historians, said, "Oh, I never thought of it that way."
re : joe shmoe | 02.12.09 - 8:57 pm | #
...Geithner is not the brains behind the throne...
...Make all the tool jokes you want. But learn to read the playbook...
So, who is the brains behind the throne and what is the playbook ?
Tell us please.
"I made the same kind of argument with fellow lefty friends calling for hate speech codes on university campuses back in the early 90's. I suggested it might not be such a good idea to give that kind of power to a court system led by Sup Ct Chief Justice Rehnquist.... Several of them, established and prominent US historians, said, "Oh, I never thought of it that way.""
I made the same kind of argument with fellow lefty friends calling for hate speech codes on university campuses back in the early 90's. I suggested it might not be such a good idea to give that kind of power to a court system led by Sup Ct Chief Justice Rehnquist.... Several of them, established and prominent US historians, said, "Oh, I never thought of it that way." joe shmoe | 02.12.09 - 9:19 pm | #
Exactly - goose & gander thing always screws up the 'partisans'.
He didn't fire Reich. He didn't fire Cox. He suggested they should resign.
You are too caught up in a formalistic reading of the statutes and that is taking your eye off of the way that power works.
This sort of thing is not at all unusual in the history of the presidency. It is not unlike the phenomena of people like Moynihan taking positions under Presidents like Nixon.
They don't seem to be into capitalism, but they do sell some books and DVDs. Some other people are doing the t-shirts. Marx's book could put me to sleep.
econonoob | 02.12.09 - 8:54 pm | #
Yeah, had to read a bunch of him as an undergrad, part of kapital, all of German Ideology, and of course the manifesto. First two def sleep inducers, but then again all german phiosophers of that era do that. Locke and Mills so much more readable from that era (ok broad deffinition of that era)
OTS is unique among the federal bank regulatory agencies in that it supervises holding companies as well as thrift institutions. This results in OTS providing consolidated supervision for such well-known firms as General Electric (GE), AIG, Inc., Ameriprise Financial, American Express, Morgan Stanley, and Merrill Lynch.
I am not aware of where this stands in the Senate, but when we looked at the plan back in August, we deemed it to be mainly a PR move (see our posts "Bush's FHA Band Aid" and "Bush's Mainly Cosmetic Homeowner Rescue Proposals").
3. Since August, the President has also called on Congress to provide tax relief for mortgage debt forgiven; homeowners who finally find relief shouldnt get put back in financial straits because of the tax code.
Again, although I am not certain of how this is progressing in the Senate, it has become a popular cause. The bill had bipartisan support in the House, so there is no reason to think it won't be approved (as an aside, I have mixed feelings about it, but that's not the point of this discussion).
4. Additionally, Congress needs to complete its work and create a strong, independent regulator for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have an important role to play in making mortgages available and affordable, and appropriate regulatory oversight is critical to their ability to serve their public policy purpose.
Fannie and Freddie are currently in very good hands with their supervisor, OFHEO's toughminded and principled James Lockhart. Despite OFHEO's limited authority over the two GSEs (the call for a new regulator is correct and supported by Lockhart), Lockhart has successfully resisted most efforts to expand their already thinly-capitalized balance sheets. Delay here is less than ideal. However, given that the earliest that Lockhart might be required to lift capital and portfolio-growth restrictions would be after February 2008 (and then only if financial performance warrants it), there appears to be some breathing room on this front.
Well, they put up an auction sign in front of our condo complex. Since they've been sitting on 70+ REO's with unpaid HOA dues for 4 months, that's good.
As well, the side walk trash is getting tonier. With all the move outs etc., the left behind furniture and stuff is both growing in quantity and quality.
As many are elderly and finding their 401k's depleted, they are moving in with their kids, and that means closer family ties.
But too, many are younger folks who were tied up employment wise to the real estate bubble, moving in with the folks, but the same benefits accrue. The fit hits the shan when you're my age and are in between both moves. Oh well, que sera sera.
But you all on CNBS are doing a fine job. You can get a feel for how well you're doing on the comment section of http://www.calculatedriskblog.com, if you're interested. My handle is Comrade Misean is Dope. Say hi to the all the folks there. I still like Mark Haines.
"Back in 2005 I posted frequently on the progress of the proposed new guidance. I spoke with a number of regulators in 2005 and 2006 who were involved in the process, and a number of them expressed frustration with both the Fed and the OTS."
Did it evwer occur to you, CR, that you were operating in... the system of the Crooks, by the crooks, and for the Crooks?
Nemo, is that "interesting" in a 'maybe I'll let you buy me a drink, but that's all" kind of way? Or an "interesting" in a "get this slimy thing off me NOW" kind of way?
A B&B in Arkansas? Why? cornface | 02.12.09 - 9:37 pm | #
Cheaper than a hotel anywhere else. AK is a fantastic vacation spot for those on a budget. The low end bar that I am a partner in is booming too. The high end is where the pain will be.
I watched a Swiss TV segment recently about Swiss manufacturers that had established manufacturing operations in China over the past few years.
Ikea use to be a Swedish company that made quality, inexpensive furniture in Sweden and sold it around the world. Then, they got bit by China.
I'm sure they outsourced little by little. What happened to Ikea is that they became a Chinese company. The instructions no longer match the products, and they are indecipherable anyway. The screws don't match the holes. Nothing exactly fits and everything is as cheap as can be.
joe shmoe writes:
...Obama is in charge of his administration,...
Well, could be.
However, I saw several senate hearings a few years ago with an then totally unknown junior senator sitting far from the center of the aisle. I remember his questions were not dump or plain "run off the mill", but not especially intelligent either. Pretty similar to Norm Coleman (except for the party) was my impression (and much better than Hillary who once almost fell asleep).
...and the playbook has beenon display for more than two years already....Ask Hillary...
Are you serious ? You think she would tell me (or anyone else) the truth ?
Cheaper than a hotel anywhere else. AK is a fantastic vacation spot for those on a budget. The low end bar that I am a partner in is booming too. The high end is where the pain will be.
Blackhalo | 02.12.09 - 9:41 pm | #
ummm...BH, Alaska is a fantastic vacation spot but about those prices...
For those of you not plugged into the legal community, there hvae been a staggering, stupendous number of layoffs today and this week in general. Here's an email I sent off to CR:
I know you don't usually cover random law layoffs, but a huge number of law firms laid off attorneys today. This is an unprecedented bloodbath. DLA Piper laid off 140 people in the UK on Tuesday and today cut another 80 lawyers and 100 staff in the US, Holland & Knight laid off 243, including 70 lawyers, Epstein Becker lays off 23 attorneys and 30 staff, Bryan Cave cut 58 attorneys and 76 staffers, Luce Forward laid off 27 attorneys on Monday and today cancelled their entire 2009 summer program, Faegre & Benson cuts 29 attorneys, Cadwalader laid off 3 attorneys in london, a small count but Cad is one of the big names, Cozen O'Connor laid off 55 secretaries and 6 paralegals, all in all an incredible day.
Abovethelaw.com, a legal gossip rag, is keeping track of the layoffs, but they have done it firm by firm and haven't consolidated them into a single post.
For those of you not plugged into the legal community, there hvae been a staggering, stupendous number of layoffs today and this week in general. Hoopajoops, LTD | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 9:47 pm | #
Bush wouldn't have been such a bad president if he had not appointed so many clowns and tools to important positions. Beach Blvd | 02.12.09 - 8:19 pm | #
Bush wouldn't have been Bush if he had not appointed so many clowns and tools to important positions.
Nobody is touching them with a ten foot pole. Alberto Gonzales is still unemployed. When I worked for the US Attorney's office I walked in every day to the seal of the department of justice with Gonzo's portrait on one side, and Bush'es portrait on the other. It was like a daily reminder of the shit his administration was doing to the DOJ.
Here's a funny poem about today's layoffs:
Black Thursday
On a windy Manhattan winter day
With the economy tanking under skies of gray
Associates and staff met an unkind end
As PPPs continued to descend
Dechert released nineteen by noon
And greater losses would be announced soon
Next came news from Bryan Cave
Where fifty-eight young careers went to the grave
Goodwin Proctor continued the act
Wheen seventy-four employees were promptly sacked
Then fell the ax at Holland & Knight
The steady paychecks of hundreds vanished from sight
An industry leader in expanding too fast
DLA Piper added scores more to the unemployed caste
Then a large cull from the North Star state
As twenty-nine associates met a cruel fate
Cadwalader sent sixteen Londoners to redundancy consultation
But a week without Cadwalader layoffs would be quite the aberration
The final cut of the day came at a mid-size shop
Where more than fifty felt the ax drop
Our sorrow is deep for our colleagues fired en masse
But do keep in mind that this too shall pass
We share in your pain, your shame, your dismay
On this darkest of dark, this Black Thursday
[The Bush Depression is here! writes:
"Bush's recession. Obama's depression."]
Don't kid yourself for 1 second. It will be Obama's depression, the one he made worse than it would have otherwise been. The fork in the road where we took the wrong turn. In 3 months or less. It'll be the longest lame duck session in history.
People need to realize the Greenspan, Reich and others were free market ideologues.
It might be helpful to make a distinction between free markets and unregulated markets.
If Greenspan claimed to be a "free market idealogue" his actions say otherwise - people who believe in free markets don't make a career out of setting the price of money and credit.
This is the opposite of a free market.
The problem was that these market regulators allowed markets to be free only when asset prices went up - then they intervened aggresively when they began to go down. It should be no surprise that this caused a bubble.
Again, Greenspan illustrates the problem with regulation/regulators in general: Just because somebody is a regulator doesn't mean that they are morally or intellectually superior to anyone else.
It just means they have more capacity to do good or harm.
The question is whether we can ensure that they do good rather than harm.
ac writes:
"The problem was that these market regulators allowed markets to be free only when asset prices went up - then they intervened aggresively when they began to go down. It should be no surprise that this caused a bubble."
Thank you. Maybe now we can stop complaining that the "free market" was at the root of this problem. We have never had a free market - at least, not in my lifetime. Rather, we had bunch of crazed wizard-wannabes yanking the levers back and forth for years. It's amazing that they didn't manage to crash the economy much sooner than they did.
Toyota's North American cuts
10% reduction in workweek at some plants
Buyout offer to hourly workers: $20,000 plus 10 weeks' pay, 2 weeks' extra pay for each year of service
Wage freeze for all workers
Bonuses eliminated for 3,000 executives, salaried workers
Executives' pay will be cut
From Marketwatch.
Wonder how those Senators Kyl, Corker Shelby feel now?
--
"Sorry.. we were in a depression before Obama ever took office"
The Bush Depression is here!,
FYI, this depression, which would turn into the Greater Depression, was caused by three evildoers -- Greenspan, Bush and Bernanke -- for their personal pursuit of power. Rubin-Clinton-Summers had something to do with it also during the Scam Market bubble of 1990s. Power corrupts Both parties are political gangs and are operated by financial gangsters.
Evil occurs in many forms and in the UK and the US it took the financial form. Evil leaders dont just happen in other countries. Americans would suffer during the first half of the 21st century as much as Germans did during the first half of the 20th century and would cause more destruction worldwide. American hubris is no lesser than the German hubris of hundred years ago. Furthermore, Americans and their leaders, blinded by the Money Culture, are intellectually and morally inferior to Germans of a hundred years ago.
Alberto Gonzales is still unemployed. Hoopajoops, LTD | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 9:51 pm | #
Not much demand for evil henchmen these days? I guess with the bankers and Wall st. on the ropes and under scrutiny, it would make things even harder. Oil in the toilet too... What is an accoplished sycophant to do? Even K-street is probably looking for some (D) cred these days. I chuckle at the thought of these guys sticking it out to the end of an 8 year rainbow for a big nothingburger.
"Looting Social Security, by William Greider, The Nation: Governing elites in Washington and Wall Street have devised a fiendishly clever "grand bargain" they want President Obama to embrace in the name of "fiscal responsibility." The government, they argue, having spent billions on bailing out the banks, can recover its costs by looting the Social Security system. mock turtle | 02.12.09 - 8:34 pm | #
Here's the funniest part about all this: the Social Security Trust Fund has NOTHING of value. There is nothing there - just government IOUs. They are not even Treasuries, they are special non-neotiable treasuries. There sin't on cent in there that the government could disburse without a) selling debt or b) raising taxes or c) cutting other spending.
since we seem to be on the subject of the Swiss I'll let Orson Welles' Harry Lime from The Third Man weigh in: Harry Lime: "In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock ..."
Because the program is not supposed to work, but proposing it is supposed flush out criticism that will push the administration to a more radical step, nationalization or the like.
Geithner went out in public to be the lightening rod, to take the flak. Geithner is the decoy duck to get the real ducks out for shooting. Geithner is the crash test dummy, to be banged up in collisions so that when the real leader goes forward with the real plan it will be safe and work.
Geithner is not the brains behind the throne. He is a tool of the administration and went out to take one for the team, which means for Obama.
Make all the tool jokes you want. But learn to read the playbook.
joe shmoe | 02.12.09 - 8:57 pm | #
Exactly. But in the political blog world we call it rope-a-dope. Obama has mastered this technique beyond measure because 1. he has excellent foresight 2. he has excellent sense of timing. 3. he understands human nature. 4. he doesn't allow chattering classes to force his hand.
5. he is NOT a reactionary. (much to the dismay of many progressives)
If folks haven't realized this yet, they simply have not paid attention.
It's 10 p.m. where I am. Is that late enough to be off topic?
Thought someone might want to hear this once again, from the Statue of Liberty:
The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Emma Lazarus, 1883
Well, if nothing else, the homeless, tempest-tost part may be quite prophetic.
ac writes:
"The problem was that these market regulators allowed markets to be free only when asset prices went up - then they intervened aggresively when they began to go down. It should be no surprise that this caused a bubble."
Thank you. Maybe now we can stop complaining that the "free market" was at the root of this problem. We have never had a free market - at least, not in my lifetime. Rather, we had bunch of crazed wizard-wannabes yanking the levers back and forth for years. It's amazing that they didn't manage to crash the economy much sooner than they did.
sm_landlord
Mises had some insight on the phenonmenon. From what I've seen in the past couple of years I have to conclude the assesment is dead on the money:
Intellectuals now expect to be the most highly valued people in a society, those with the most prestige and power, those with the greatest rewards. Intellectuals feel entitled to this. But, by and large, a capitalist society does not honor its intellectuals. Ludwig von Mises explains the special resentment of intellectuals, in contrast to workers, by saying they mix socially with successful capitalists and so have them as a salient comparison group and are humiliated by their lesser status. However, even those intellectuals who do not mix socially are similarly resentful, while merely mixing is not enough--the sports and dancing instructors who cater to the rich and have affairs with them are not noticeably anti-capitalist.
In other words, the attacks on free markets largely come down to insecurity and selfishness.
Search for diamonds, go trout fishing then sit around with old people at a B&B in Arkansas. What a blast! cornface | 02.12.09 - 9:55 pm | #
Hot springs, was like a pre housing boom Vegas the last time I was there. A bit of an out of date, but very cool resort thing going on. They must have a casino now, cause it looks much better developed now.
"Don't kid yourself for 1 second. It will be Obama's depression, the one he made worse than it would have otherwise been. The fork in the road where we took the wrong turn. In 3 months or less. It'll be the longest lame duck session in history."
Wow..... it's awesome how Obama has already been blamed for the last 8 years of malfeasance when he hasn't even been president for a month..
ova writes:
Wow, I just had an awesome idea. What if people sent their fotos and handles and we put them up?
.
Actually, I have a mental picture of some of you. Margin Call is wearing a 3-piece suit, but with a face like a squid. BlackHalo is the Grim Reaper. Comrade Kristina is a Slayer. Nova looks like, well, a Nova. Comrade Misean is Trotsky in a toga. Lawyerliz looks like T'Pau. And Nemo is a nautical captain-type from the waist up, with a fish tail below.
The Bush Depression is here! poster is quite the Obama fanboi. Keep it down, youre dry humping every comment critical of your fearless leader will evetually lead to a wet sticky mess, and then you'll have to sleep outside in the doghouse.
Governing elites in Washington and Wall Street have devised a fiendishly clever "grand bargain" they want President Obama to embrace in the name of "fiscal responsibility." The government, they argue, having spent billions on bailing out the banks, can recover its costs by looting the Social Security system. They are also targeting Medicare and Medicaid. The pitch sounds preposterous to millions of ordinary working people anxious about their economic security and worried about their retirement years. But an impressive armada is lined up to push the idea--Washington's leading think tanks, the prestige media, tax-exempt foundations, skillful propagandists posing as economic experts and a self-righteous billionaire spending his fortune to save the nation from the elderly.
These players are promoting a tricky way to whack Social Security benefits, but to do it behind closed doors so the public cannot see what's happening or figure out which politicians to blame. The essential transaction would amount to misappropriating the trillions in Social Security taxes that workers have paid to finance their retirement benefits. This swindle is portrayed as "fiscal reform." In fact, it's the political equivalent of bait-and-switch fraud.
MrM - also if you fit a tinfoil hat just right you might be able to see that this ploy was to nationalize banks in a effort to set a base for a sovereign wealth fund
"The Bush Depression is here! poster is quite the Obama fanboi. Keep it down, youre dry humping every comment critical of your fearless leader will evetually lead to a wet sticky mess, and then you'll have to sleep outside in the doghouse."
No I'm just shooting down moronic wingnuts.... Obama has done many things I don't like so far.. however, I'm withholding judgement until I see where we are in a couple of years
I have a problem with people trying to blame the idiocy of the worst president in US history, bush... on Obama
Obama may end up sucking.. who knows.. but this premature judging is quite frankly childish crap...
Your saying the president is the brains of the outfit an not a fugurehead? What happens if he dicides to take advantage of all the new toys the previous admin left behind?
Blackhalo | 02.12.09 - 9:03 pm | #
I watched the last minute of House of Cards. Greenspan looks like someone took him out of the grave, put makeup on him, and moved his arms and limbs with puppet strings.
"The Toyota City, Japan-based carmaker plans additional reductions in its assembly schedule for April, and is creating a job-sharing program at some plants, spokesman Mike Goss said."
Add the these reductions to those listed in a post aobe ...Toyota is moving to stop the bleeding.
The essential transaction would amount to misappropriating the trillions in Social Security taxes that workers have paid to finance their retirement benefits. MrM | 02.12.09 - 10:14 pm | #
What is with this? Get a clue. Regan already spent it.
Note the program the Greider is advocating as he flogs his book. What are the odds that such a program would end up just like another edition of Social Security? Pretty certain, I think.
Oh come on it wasn't CRA it was all F and F...They caused this whole thing, they and Barney Frank...Oh shit, I'm stuck in a Fox news loops...help...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 10:20 pm |
"Oh come on it wasn't CRA it was all F and F...They caused this whole thing, they and Barney Frank...Oh shit, I'm stuck in a Fox news loops...help..."
IMO Fox news and the like have done more damage to this country that almost anything I can think of.
What's funny is I have some REAL conservative friends and they can't stand fox news.. they think it makes their entire idelogy look like it's for stupid hillbillies
ztexas - if true, he will have a months of free medical care and can now apply for refugee status on the basis he will shuned b/c of his physical appearence...
seriously tho...a shame someone becomes so desperate, a real shame
Individuals and political-action committees representing securities and investment firms contributed $146 million to federal political campaigns in 2007 and 2008, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a Washington-based research group that tracks money flows in U.S. politics.
Insurance companies were good for $44 million over the same period
Nope!
"would like to see" is "future tense" . (I think.) So, ....
Werner "
What is it about human suffering and slaughter that so amuses the Germans?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ask Pavel. He will tell you that Christianity teaches that evildoers go to hell and burn there in eternity.
That is suffering, not splashing on the asphalt of Wall Street.
I figure most of the finance geeks here are boned up on the mechanics but for those who arent check out this... I find it very informative. You dont get to ask questions but the professor will repeat the same thing over and over!
"Sorry.. we were in a depression before Obama ever took office"
The Bush Depression is here!,
FYI, this depression, which would turn into the Greater Depression, was caused by three evildoers -- Greenspan, Bush and Bernanke -- for their personal pursuit of power. Rubin-Clinton-Summers had something to do with it also during the Scam Market bubble of 1990s. Power corrupts Both parties are political gangs and are operated by financial gangsters.
Evil occurs in many forms and in the UK and the US it took the financial form. Evil leaders dont just happen in other countries. Americans would suffer during the first half of the 21st century as much as Germans did during the first half of the 20th century and would cause more destruction worldwide. American hubris is no lesser than the German hubris of hundred years ago. Furthermore, Americans and their leaders, blinded by the Money Culture, are intellectually and morally inferior to Germans of a hundred years ago.
Jas
Jas Jain
This is why we'd be nothing around here without Jas.
I was thinking something similar earlier today:
We've substituted money for purpose and authority for morality - that's why we're dying as a nation.
for those souls who have built some safety net around divies:
It survived the Great Depression, two world wars and several recessions, but the much-storied Dow Chemical Co. [DOW-N] dividend was no match for the credit crunch.
In what is shaping up as the worst year for dividend cuts in more than six decades, the world's second-largest chemical maker slashed its payout yesterday by 64 per cent the first decrease since the company was founded by Canadian-born chemist Herbert Henry Dow in 1897.
The bottom line is dividends have been getting killed
Don't let the door hit you on the way out
Time for the second Reich. Third to follow shortly.
Ja! Das ist gut!
Nostrovia,
That picture of the cutting red tape is absolutely pathetic.
Man, that is some serious pork on the hoof in that foto. I can seem doing purple shooters at Hooters afterwards. Everytime they go to the mens room they come back with a wet spot on their trousers.
Back in 2005 I posted frequently on the progress of the proposed new guidance. I spoke with a number of regulators in 2005 and 2006 who were involved in the process, and a number of them expressed frustration with both the Fed and the OTS. - CR
CR, Did any of them have a guess back then that it would go this far, be this bad?
Just curious.
RE: Cutting red tape.
Mission accomplished!
John Reich, An American onlly Werner could love.
Werner: SO is your last name a secret code?
Reich: Huh?
Werner: It rolls off the tonque so nicely...Ah...Reich
Reich: Huh?
Werner: So, do you like leather?
Reich: Room 216. 15 minutes
Basel Too & Fair Econ
Want to revisit our discussion a few threads back?
Presidential appointees resign when the President wants them to resign, with few exceptions.
Shela Bair stays because Obama wants her there.
"We're five out-of-shape white guys from the government. We're here to push the Conjure Clock to midnight."
"I can seem doing purple shooters at Hooters afterwards. Everytime they go to the mens room they come back with a wet spot on their trousers."
That was from a slippery oyster.
That looks like a chain saw. And blood.
dryfly, some people were seriously worried ... but we never talked about how bad it would get. I was always trying to figure out what was being done to improve oversight and tighten lending, and they were telling me what they were doing - and expressing frustration.
People need to realize the Greenspan, Reich and others were free market ideologues. You can see that in the quote in the post:
[Reich] cautioned that the government should not interfere with lending by thrifts "who have demonstrated that they have the know-how to manage these products through all kinds of economic cycles."
Obviously not true.
In my view, Reich and Gilleran (the two OTS chairman) should be on the top 10 list of people to blame - and the media never mentions them!
best wishes.
cnbc "house of Cards"
House of Cards, Global Economic Collapse, Mortgage Brokers, Investment Bankers, Financial Crisis, Greenspan, Business, Refinance, Credit and Housing Crisis - CNBC.com
Where's the "Good Bank Plan"?
"scone writes:
That looks like a chain saw. And blood."
Right. Good god! They just circumcized that man in the middle with a chain saw. In front of the press, no less. The horror.
@joe
This does seem to reinforce your thought about appointees serving at the presidents pleasure behind the scenes
The red tape was holding Pandora's Box shut. Nice work, boys.
By the end of Obama's first year in office, many of the old guard will have gone the way of Reich. He only needed them for the transition.
I'm watching it right now lawngrass...
Any chance every senator and every house member will resign? Darn.
"Every single congressman, including your friend, Obi Wan Barney Frank is now an enemy of the Republic!"
"I understand, my Master."
"He only needed them for the transition.
Feckless Ness"
He only needs them to prove a point and point a finger.
reading and writin' both writes:
The red tape was holding Pandora's Box shut. Nice work, boys.
Gonna leave that one alone.
I'd be surprised if the guy on the far right, actually they all are, anyways, if he even knew where he was.
they were slitting their own throats and didnt even know it
Everytime I hear a chainsaw now, I'll going to cover up.
So many slogans: Cut the red tape. Get government off our backs. Self-regulating markets ...
CR,
Seeing that you are here, how does this recession stack up against the early 80's version? Data and numerically the 80's one seems worse yet there was not the economic bailout gymnastics that we have now. What changed besides the bagholders?
That's a fair take, Elvis. It'll justify going a completely different direction when the stimulus fails to revive the economy.
The first few weeks of this administration showed how poorly planned out these cabinet selections were. The goal is to put your cabinet together, and then get the wink/nod from the approval process and get on with it. It's been a debacle so far.
Haven't heard much lately from Hillary or Joe. I imagine they've been neutered at this point.
Oh well, it's not like there's any major issues to tackle. Hope we don't get a disruptive terror event, because the leadership would look even more indecisive, and that's really saying something.
Everytime I hear a chainsaw now, I'll going to cover up.
Elvis | 02.12.09 - 8:13 pm
You might even want to consider it if you see someone with nail clippers
"What changed besides the bagholders?"
The gymnasts are more limber now. Straight from Cirque De Soliel.
Reich is der Führer der Untersee-Banken in ihrem Angriff auf Amerika.
My Comments of Aug06 on Dubai, Germany and the Housing Bubble...
A friend sent the following -- Laid-Off Foreigners Flee as Dubai Spirals Down
Laid-Off Foreigners Flee as Once Booming Dubai Spirals Down - NY Times
Below are my comments of August 2006:
US and Anglo-Saxon Housing Bubble Discussion in Germany
Todays topic: statistikvoodoo von california realtors (car)
immobilienblasen
Even I can understand the meaning of the above topic. It is not as easy to lead Germans into the kind of self-destructive behavior that Americans, Australians and the Brits have been led into in recent years. To paraphrase Mark Twain: Prosperity is the best breeder of stupidity, I know. And no one has enjoyed more prosperity and longer than Californians. So, we know why they have been misbehavin so badly.
I bet that Germans are having fun talking about the absurd behavior that led to the Housing Bubble in the Anglo countries
Germany coming back is a very temporary phenomenon. The US economy, led by the US Housing Bubble Burst, will take the whole world economies down with it. Poor Arabs will get the worst of it, though, followed by India and China. The real bubble economy is one of Dubai.
Jas
One more thing regarding trade that might be of interest to a few here and especially dryfly and EHP.
I watched a Swiss TV segment recently about Swiss manufacturers that had established manufacturing operations in China over the past few years.
What was especially interesting is that they changed their strategy from engineering in Switzerland to relocating their engineering to China (sending key Swiss engineers along) to modify and adapt their products to the Chinese supply chain in order to reduce overall product costs. They mentioned that they could still deliver near their present quality but would be able to reduce their overall costs by 30% to 50%.
What was striking is that they weren't reducing their commitment to China but jumping all in because in order to survive in this horrible economy they had to produce at much lower prices. It also supports, in part, why Chinese imports dropped much more than exports. Obviously, lower raw material and energy costs make up the bulk of the rest.
This Swiss manufactures approach is in line with my thinking where I expressed doubts that China would mirror the U.S. experience in the Great Depression. If you have GDP per capita at a fraction of your primary export markets, it makes sense to follow the model that these Swiss companies are following IMO.
"You might even want to consider it if you see someone with nail clippers
nova"
Man, tough crowd.
"The first few weeks of this administration showed how poorly planned out these cabinet selections were. The goal is to put your cabinet together, and then get the wink/nod from the approval process and get on with it. It's been a debacle so f"
did you miss the last 8 years when every person in the white house was a criminal and/or incompetent (usually both)?
Gregg is a scumbag trying to play games.... good riddance
Stepped down? He still had that job? He should be in prison.
By the end of Obama's first year in office, many of the old guard will have gone the way of Reich. He only needed them for the transition.
Feckless Ness | 02.12.09 - 8:10 pm | #
Will that include Geithner?
Has this already been posted?
The Travis County sheriff was out and seized Spansion for delinquent property tax.
Spansion seized for $9M in overdue tax | KXAN.com
in other Austin news, YOY sales tax revenue for December was down 13.8%
And this in one of the "strongest areas" in the US. Ugh. I don't know about the depression but I think my nervous breakdown is here!
Bush wouldn't have been such a bad president if he had not appointed so many clowns and tools to important positions.
JJL, the early '80s recession was very different (well, we had a surge in oil prices leading up to the recession and a few other similarities), but the problems were very different - and so was the medicine. Volcker had to raise rates to kill inflation - this time we are struggling with a bursting asset bubble (and loose credit).
It's really hard to compare the two recessions.
best wishes.
"Will that include Geithner?"
One can only hope.
I really think they need a complete outsider over there.... new thinking
When can we get rid of bernakke?
RE | 02.12.09 - 8:16 pm
The Swiss do final assembly at home? So they can put Made in Switzerland on it?
Will that include Geithner?
You giving odds on that action? You know, being a sportsfan, an' all.
CR,
Thanks for the input. As I am only early 30's I have no real world memory of the early 80's recession. I do remember a brutal housing bust in the late 80's (my mom was recently divorced in 1991 and tried to refi the house that appraised for 250k in 1988 only to have the new appraisal come in at 100k) and there were no major programs to stop the bust then either. Something has changed and we need to pin it down.
Im really scared of what could happen, because I bought property here, said Sofia, who asked that her last name be withheld because she is still hunting for a new job. If I cant pay it off, I was told I could end up in debtors prison.
Wow, if we had that here, about 75% of the population would be in prison!
OT: Starbucks to sell $1 instant version, 20 yrs. in development.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29168867
"how to kill the Golden Goose, 101"
mock turtle writes:
they were slitting their own throats and didnt even know it
mock turtle | 02.12.09 - 8:13 pm | #
They were slitting OUR throats and knew EXACTLY what they were doing...and making quite a profit I might add..Salary Preservation=TARP
When can we get rid of bernakke?
The Bush Depression is here! | 02.12.09 - 8:19 pm | #
His term is up in early (February?) 2010.
NOT TO WORRY ...! THEY HAVE A NEW PLAN ...!
"Looting Social Security"
Economist's View: "Looting Social Security"
It just gets better everyday ...
Today's topic: âstatistikvoodoo von california realtors (car)"
http://www.immobilienblasen.blog...n.blogspot.com/
Jas Jain | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 8:15 pm | #
This is Jan-Martin. He is not your regular German. He has been heavily involved in U.S. bear blogs for several years. He was a regular here and particularly at Russ Winter.
Whenever you see a post (like this) that starts with "Moin" and from a poster called jmf then you know it is the author of Immobilienblasen.
"how to kill the Golden Goose, 101"
anonymous"
Funny, in my How to Kill the Golden Goose 101, they taught me to use a shotgun. However, in graduate level How to Kill a Golden Goose classes, I was told to form a Bad Goose Bank.
I meant,
"create a cheaper, commoditized version of your product, keep the same brand identity, and devalue the concept by associating it with the cultural stigma of Sanka and Taster's Choice"
I like the Bad Goose Bank, though. What'r'ya paying for a 5 year cd.?
In my mind, I envison debtor's prison just like country club prison, but there is no golf course and the golf clubs are real clubs.
They were slitting OUR throats and knew EXACTLY what they were doing...and making quite a profit I might add..Salary Preservation=TARP
Money Man | 02.12.09 - 8:23 pm |
money man i ws thinkin that too as i typed it...
but then on reflection im willing to bet none of these guys even runs for dog catcher ever agai
Bad Goose Bank.
Elvis | 02.12.09 - 8:26 pm | #
Is there a Grey Goose Bank? Ah, never mind. I"m good with Smirnoff from Costco.
You giving odds on that action? You know, being a sportsfan, an' all.
Feckless Ness | 02.12.09 - 8:20 pm | #
No odds, just a sportsfan, not a bookie.
But I do have the feeling that Geithner was a transition guy for the middle of a deepening crisis. By going to the NY Fed, and someone who had been in the decision making process of TARP 1, he picked someone who wouldn't alienate the banksters or Wall Street. Also, by allowing policies to be implemented that were not radically different than his predecessor's policies, he was avoiding an early label as a radical and a complete shutdown of support from Republicans.
Now that there's been a complete shutdown of support, it only remains for Geithner's policies to fail and Obama can make a complete break from that process and start the nationalization with a new face.
"I like the Bad Goose Bank, though. What'r'ya paying for a 5 year cd.?
anonymous"
They pay rates above other banks to attract more bad bank business.
Should China be concerned?
CAN the stop buying treasurys? How long can they keep the Yaun, semi-pegged?
D'oh! Caterpillar CEO Contradicts President
President Obama today repeated the claim we asked about yesterday at the press briefing that Jim Owens, the CEO of Caterpillar, Inc., "said that if Congress passes our plan, this company will be able to rehire some of the folks who were just laid off."
Asked if the stimulus package would be able to stop the 22,000 layoffs or not, Owens said, "I think realistically no. The truth is we're going to have more layoffs before we start hiring again"
Europe's industrial base may never recover from crisis - Telegraph
Europe's industrial base may never recover from crisis
The European Commission has issued a red alert over the unprecedented collapse of industrial production, warning that EU states are running out of money for rescue packages.
"Blackhalo writes:
Should China be concerned?
CAN the stop buying treasurys?"
Sure. Just as a crack smoker can stop smoking crack.
tanta, bless her soul, has missed a lot of excitement. Who thought the dreary low-margin commoditized world of mortgage finance could be so insane.
Going forward asset bubbles will be contained to sharp, volitaile moves between Dow 7,800 and 8,200. Long on the way up, short on the way down. Hey, it works until it doesn't
"warning that EU states are running out of money for rescue packages.
Comrade Tiberius"
Is there a paper and ink shortage over there that I am not aware of?
from the economists view post
cited by mmicknl above
(destroying social security was always the plan,,,run gov into bankruptcy, disable gov etc so social programs have to be dropped)
from econ view
"Looting Social Security, by William Greider, The Nation: Governing elites in Washington and Wall Street have devised a fiendishly clever "grand bargain" they want President Obama to embrace in the name of "fiscal responsibility." The government, they argue, having spent billions on bailing out the banks, can recover its costs by looting the Social Security system. They are also targeting Medicare and Medicaid. The pitch sounds preposterous to millions of ordinary working people anxious about their economic security and worried about their retirement years. But an impressive armada is lined up to push the idea--Washington's leading think tanks, the prestige media, tax-exempt foundations, skillful propagandists posing as economic experts and a self-righteous billionaire spending his fortune to save the nation from the elderly. ... This swindle is portrayed as "fiscal reform." In fact, it's the political equivalent of bait-and-switch fraud.
ova wrote:
Reich: Huh?
Werner: It rolls off the tonque so nicely...Ah...Reich
nova, as in Obama, unsere Reich's Führer.
Does Jim Owens not understand "the paradox of thrift"? Perhaps he needs a sit down with a keynesian clown to understand he needs his company to bleed cash instead of trying to survive.
I hope CR is right that Reich was merely an 'ideologue'. Maybe it's due to my spending too much time with the CRCC, but I smell corruption.
I'm curious to know what his next job will be...Or how cush his retirement.
E,
"Is there a paper and ink shortage over there that I am not aware of?"
I seem to recall the Germans stopped selling the stuff to Zimbabwe. Production fatigue is a possibility.
Nostrovia,
There is an online Das Kapital:
Economic Manuscripts: Capital: Volume One
The Swiss do final assembly at home? So they can put Made in Switzerland on it?
nova | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 8:19 pm | #
I wouldn't be surprised if they'd find a way to do that. Obviously senior management, the head engineer and quality assurance is still Swiss even in China. This is where they felt their big edge would come from. Much lower cost and reasonable retention of quality. It looked like they didn't have any other options left. I believe it make a trend...
They are getting desperate now ... and desperate people do desperate things ...
They'll be threatening SSI, Medicare and every other social program with cuts to underwrite their trillion dollar losses ...
"Looting Social Security,"
Maybe after looting that they can loot the MDA, Goodwill, and the US Paralympic Association.
"Looting Social Security"
They already did that.
Nostrovia,
"OK. Dad, it is time for surgery. Swig this moonshine and bite this stick. I saw this once on ER back in the 90s, so I know what I am doing."
Al Gore is a partner at Generation Investment Management LLP which specializes in "climate solutions"
In other news...
Gore urges action on stimulus plan's environmental provisions
Al Gore urges action on stimulus plan's environmental provisions |
World news |
guardian.co.uk
Try Prozac folks
So many slogans: Cut the red tape. Get government off our backs. Self-regulating markets ...
econonoob | 02.12.09 - 8:13 pm | #
Where's my bailout, where's my subsidy...
"Gore urges action on stimulus plan's environmental provisions"
And stimulus for documentary movie production.
"The government, they argue, having spent billions on bailing out the banks, can recover its costs by looting the Social Security system. They are also targeting Medicare and Medicaid."
Yep, here they come folks. They are after every program they can gut ...
Find your Congressman and Senators, then E-mail and call !
C-SPAN | Capitol Hill, The White House and National Politics
That's a fair take, Elvis. It'll justify going a completely different direction when the stimulus fails to revive the economy.
Feckless Ness | 02.12.09 - 8:14 pm | #
I suspect it will do a wonderful job of delaying any recovery as the economy will be clogged by all of these, "if your BK and you know it, clap your hands," banks.
They already did that.
Nostrovia,
Comrade Misean is Dope
~~~~
That's what they want you to think ... they are back for more buddy ...
Interesting...maybe Barney Frank isn't ALL bad
"....in a profile of Frank for the January 12 edition of The New Yorker, staff writer Jeffrey Toobin wrote: "According to Frank, at the root of the real-estate crisis was a misguided notion that homeownership should be available to all people -- what President Bush has called 'the ownership society.' " Toobin quoted Frank saying in a speech that homeownership "is not suitable for everybody."
FRANK: Mr. Speaker, we have a national goal of increasing homeownership. Homeownership is very important. I always want to make it clear to people that while homeownership is very important, it should not be considered all of our goal in the housing area. A large number of people, for economic reasons and other reasons, will be renters. It is a good thing if we can help people become homeowners, but we should not neglect the legitimate interests of renters."
Still slimy though
They mentioned that they could still deliver near their present quality but would be able to reduce their overall costs by 30% to 50%.
RE | 02.12.09 - 8:16 pm | #
Boy have I heard that one before. How long have they been up and running? Have they been hit by the surprize import inspections yet?
How the Crash Will Reshape America
How the Crash Will Reshape America - The Atlantic
(March 2009)
No place in the United States is likely to escape a long and deep recession. Nonetheless, as the crisis continues to spread outward from New York, through industrial centers like Detroit, and into the Sun Belt, it will undoubtedly settle much more heavily on some places than on others. Some cities and regions will eventually spring back stronger than before. Others may never come back at all. As the crisis deepens, it will permanently and profoundly alter the countrys economic landscape. I believe it marks the end of a chapter in American economic history, and indeed, the end of a whole way of life.
The housing bubble was the ultimate expression, and perhaps the last gasp, of an economic system some 80 years in the making, and now well past its sell-by date.
There is an online Das Kapital:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/.../works/1867-c1/
econonoob | 02.12.09 - 8:35 pm | #
marxists.org... is that like che-lives? They sell a bunch of really cool shirts and stuff - bet they make a killing.
THEY HAVE A NEW PLAN ...!
mmckinl | 02.12.09 - 8:25 pm | #
That is a pretty old plan. And one already executed.
The "outreach sessions" to bankers correlates with the foreclosure map well:
"We are calling on bankers to help us determine how to improve and streamline the regulatory process," Reich continued. "We are serious about this effort, we are committed to it, and we intend to achieve results." he said the three-year time frame would allow sufficient time to solicit "substantial and significant" input from bankers as well as consumer groups and other interested parties.
To solicit bankers' views, the agencies are conducting banker outreach sessions in five U.S. cities. The events are scheduled for Orlando (June 11), St. Louis (June 26), Denver (July 15), San Francisco (Sept. 18) and New York (Oct. 15). ACB members interested in participating may contact Charlotte Bahin, senior vice president, for regulatory affairs, at (202) 857-3121 for further details.
dryfly,
"bet they make a killing."
And I'm sure the shirt makers get paid very well.
Nostrovia,
this documentary on cnbc is pretty good...I'm surprised they are showing it...
Was it Reich that castrated State AGs right to sue banks over unfair practices?
What economic system will replace the current one?
The traditional American system was based on
manufacturing, farming and resource extraction.
The current failing system is based on a Ponzi scheme. I can't imagine what comes next.
"The housing bubble was the ultimate expression, and perhaps the last gasp, of an economic system some 80 years in the making, and now well past its sell-by date."
I say we take that picture, 'shop it with tits, and send it to the "Dos and Don'ts" on Vice Magazine.
"The housing bubble was the ultimate expression, and perhaps the last gasp, of an economic system some 80 years in the making, and now well past its sell-by date."
I don't know about 80.... but I would definitely say 30 years....
And I'm sure the shirt makers get paid very well.
Comrade Misean is Dope | 02.12.09 - 8:50 pm | #
LOL - they probably actually live in a worker's paradise under the red flag - lucky duckies.
I'm a free market guy.. but marx was right about a few things......
IMO free market fundamentalists are just as bad as communists... you gotta have balance in life...
That is a pretty old plan. And one already executed.
Blackhalo
~~~~~
Already in capture eh Blackhalo?
Boy have I heard that one before. How long have they been up and running? Have they been hit by the surprize import inspections yet?
Blackhalo | 02.12.09 - 8:46 pm | #
Yes, they were up and running. Very experienced folks actually with well established operations in China. However, the real change was to fully adopt parts and materials from the Chinese supply chain instead of importing European parts.
As I said, I believe this is a trend in the making...
dryfly writes:
There is an online Das Kapital:
File Not Found
econonoob | 02.12.09 - 8:35 pm | #
marxists.org... is that like che-lives? They sell a bunch of really cool shirts and stuff - bet they make a killing.
They don't seem to be into capitalism, but they do sell some books and DVDs. Some other people are doing the t-shirts. Marx's book could put me to sleep.
RE | 02.12.09 - 8:16 pm
They are already doing it. Parts elswhere, assembly in the homeland.
New Balance does the same thing here. My guess is their getting a tax benefit.
CR, I only nitpick because your erudite diction makes it probable that you care about correct usage:
A king or queen reigns, but you rein in a horse. The expression to give rein means to give in to an impulse as a spirited horse gives in to its impulse to gallop when you slacken the reins. Similarly, the correct expression is free rein, not free reign."
"Marx's book could put me to sleep."
I use it to prop up the broken foot under my desk. Works great...complains a lot though...
Nostrovia,
Where's that retarded boob James Lockhart these days?? That dude needs to resign too!
Geithner....
think back to the Obama press conference the night before Geithner's testimony.
a reporter asked Obama about the bank bail out plan and Obama responded by saying he did not want to ruin Geithner's "moment in the sun."
what did that mean?
Did Obama mean he couldn't describe the "plan"? Doubtful. A day later Obama went on Nightline and was able to compare the Japanese vs Swedish handling of bank crises.
So what did Obama mean? Why wouldn't he want to step out front to preview such a big program?
Here's why:
Because the program is not supposed to work, but proposing it is supposed flush out criticism that will push the administration to a more radical step, nationalization or the like.
Geithner went out in public to be the lightening rod, to take the flak. Geithner is the decoy duck to get the real ducks out for shooting. Geithner is the crash test dummy, to be banged up in collisions so that when the real leader goes forward with the real plan it will be safe and work.
Geithner is not the brains behind the throne. He is a tool of the administration and went out to take one for the team, which means for Obama.
Make all the tool jokes you want. But learn to read the playbook.
IMO free market fundamentalists are just as bad as communists... you gotta have balance in life...
The Bush Depression is here! | 02.12.09 - 8:53 pm | #
I hear you. Markets need to be fair as well as free, and a little bit of a saftey-net for the least among us is a benifit to all.
"NOT TO WORRY ...! THEY HAVE A NEW PLAN ...!
"Looting Social Security"
http://economistsview.typepad.co...l- security.html
It just gets better everyday ..."
This is a better direct link to the above mentioned article - Looting Social Security
I've been reading Greider for more years than I've frequented CR.
The Swiss have several organizations to ensure the integrity and reputation of Swiss watchmakers. The accepted standard for what constitutes a Swiss-made watch is a Swiss movement, set into its case in Switzerland, by a manufacturer of Swiss origin.
A Swiss movement is defined as a movement that was assembled in Switzerland (by a Swiss-based manufacturer), and whose Swiss movement parts constitute 50% or more of a movement's total value. Movements that meet this requirement will carry a stamp (on the watch's face or back of the case) with the words "Swiss," "Swiss Made," "Swiss Quartz," "Suisse," "Produit Suisse" or "Fabrique en Suisse." The former three are the most popular in North America.
No Transparency In "Stress Test"
The New York times is discussing a "stress test" for banks in Bank Test May Expand U.S. Regulators Role. Three things stand out.
There is no transparency and there are no details. Is this supposed to inspire confidence?
Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: No Transparency In "Stress Test"
And you thought there would be transparency? Foolish Boy !
Want to revisit our discussion a few threads back?
Presidential appointees resign when the President wants them to resign, with few exceptions.
Shela Bair stays because Obama wants her there.
I'm curious why Reich left, but Obama can't make him leave. This is interesting becuase it's the first strange resignation of a termed position in ages.
As I said, I believe this is a trend in the making...
RE | 02.12.09 - 8:54 pm | #
This is a very old trend. We have been doing this for years. We were going to recude costs 50% and pay 10c on the dollar. But some beancouter ran the numbers on our first two years in operation, and with all the hidden costs included we were saving 10%
This is interesting becuase it's the first strange resignation of a termed position in ages.
Fair Economist | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 8:59 pm | #
Fair Econ,
you don't count as "strange" the US Attorneys who resigned when Bush's political office told them to resign, completely outside of custom, norm, and term, with no good cause except their political difference from Bush?
"I'm curious why Reich left, but Obama can't make him leave. This is interesting becuase it's the first strange resignation of a termed position in ages."
Could be that he was told to leave or the FBI would start looking into him...
Or something else entirely
The Latest from Mish:
You Can't Fool Gold
Time to change my rating there, ac.
The Enterprise is cooperating with OFHEO in accomplishing our mutual goal of remediation. As a result of the increased operational risk at Freddie Mac, OFHEO directed Freddie Macto maintain a targeted capital surplus of 30% over their minimum capital requirement. To date, Freddie Mac has maintained a surplus in compliance with this directive. http://www.ofheo.gov/media/pdf/
In lifting a 2006 consent order, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight said Tuesday that "two years of hard work" by Fannie Mae officials had resolved many internal accounting and management problems. Regulators will continue reducing surplus capital requirements imposed on Fannie Mae after the company was forced to restate several years of earnings, OFHEO said. On March 1 OFHEO removed a cap on the size of Fannie Mae's mortgage portfolio -- loans or mortgage-backed securities the company holds for investment.
Geithner is not the brains behind the throne. He is a tool of the administration and went out to take one for the team, which means for Obama.
joe shmoe | 02.12.09 - 8:57 pm | #
This is a very new phenomena to me. Your saying the president is the brains of the outfit an not a fugurehead? What happens if he dicides to take advantage of all the new toys the previous admin left behind?
"This is a very old trend. We have been doing this for years. We were going to recude costs 50% and pay 10c on the dollar. But some beancouter ran the numbers on our first two years in operation, and with all the hidden costs included we were saving 10%"
I can tell you that a lot of software outsourcing has ended up being MORE expensive due to poor quality code that requires far more support expense
joe shmoe | \t \t \t \t02.12.09 - 8:57 pm | #
I wish you hadn't posted that because I'd like to reply, but I was just going to head out to a bourbon-tasting at the local club starting right now.
So, nice post, but I'm still heading out for some free bourbon.
"I'm curious why Reich left, but Obama can't make him leave.
~~~
They moved his desk into the public lavatory ...
can't say that I blame you, Sportsfa
Did Obama mean he couldn't describe the "plan"? Doubtful. A day later Obama went on Nightline and was able to compare the Japanese vs Swedish handling of bank crises.
So what did Obama mean? Why wouldn't he want to step out front to preview such a big program?
He meant that the program had just been finished HOURS before and he probably hadn't even had time to see it yet. Heck, Timmy might have been revising as Obama answered the question. He'd have been an idiot to describe it.
He might have wanted to keep some distance from the program, but it's not because he's got plans of his own. He probably does understand it's a hot potato and just doesn't want to be holding it.
The Swiss have several organizations to ensure the integrity and reputation of Swiss watchmakers.
nova | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 8:58 pm | #
Nova,
Let me stress that these were not watch makers. They did though say that they wanted to follow the Swatch model in their own field.
1. A massive audit of the 18 largest banks is underway.
Where's the Good Bank Plan? | 02.12.09 - 8:59 pm | #
Well at least it is a start. It is better than taking the banks word for it.
Bet he gats a fat pension!
Re: They moved his desk into the public lavatory ...
He was also full of crap!
Could be that he was told to leave or the FBI would start looking into him...
The Bush Depression is here! | 02.12.09 - 9:02 pm | #
One hopes that happens in either case. It may be the investigation is over and now that there is a JD with a will it is now being prosecuted.
This is a very new phenomena to me. Your saying the president is the brains of the outfit an not a fugurehead? What happens if he dicides to take advantage of all the new toys the previous admin left behind?
Blackhalo | 02.12.09 - 9:03 pm | #
That is just dawning on you now? I was telling my bush-loving conservative friends that back when Patriot I was being debated... I never imagined O would be pres someday but I certainly thought Hillary had a shot or somebody even farther left... I asked them 'Do you want Hillary to have all that power?' Their answer was always the same "America will never make that mistake." I've asked a couple of them since November and they don't say too much. The fools.
U.S. sales of video game hardware and software rose 13 percent in January from a year earlier, led by Nintendo Co Ltd's Wii console and DS hand-held systems, market researcher NPD said on Thursday.
The results presented more evidence that even in the middle of a brutal economic downturn, U.S. consumers are willing to spend on video games.
Business finance news - currency market news - online UK currency markets - financial news - Interactive Investor
That's the same thing the Japanese did when their bubble broke. Stay at home and play with trinkets.
Generational memory lapse again?
Banking and law were..adjusted to a more popular view.
Back in GD1, when the farmers were losing their farms to foreclosure they showed up en masse to stop other bidders. An agrarian revolt was underway and almost got out of hand.
Remedies for Revolution
Feb. 06, 1933
Time
¶ At Nampa, Idaho, where a United Farmers' League was in process of organization, one William Ai Frost jumped up and shouted: "Just give me a six-shooter and four red-blooded men who will have the nerve to follow me and we'll make the Legislature put through any law we want."
AGRICULTURE: Remedies for Revolution - TIME
In an interview, James Lockhart, the regulator that oversees Fannie Mae (FNM.P: Quote, Profile, Research) and Freddie Mac (FRE.P: Quote, Profile, Research), said the mortgage finance industry was eager to have a standardized mortgage modification standard.
"I've talked to all the major servicers -- both the big bank ones and the big independent ones -- and they are all ready to go, they're chomping at the bit," Lockhart, the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, said. "The other thing they're asking for standardization."
Toatl bullshit and Lockhart should be fired!
okay, I'm sorry. I'm going to agree w/ Jas
+1 Jas
Germany coming back is a very temporary phenomenon. The US economy, led by the US Housing Bubble Burst, will take the whole world economies down with it. Poor Arabs will get the worst of it, though, followed by India and China. The real bubble economy is one of Dubai.
Jas
Jas I would add Qatar, too
I think that the amount of leverage on a mortgage is too much. It's 5X leverage, even with 20% down.
Well at least it is a start. It is better than taking the banks word for it.
Blackhalo
~~~~
LOL ... you've been snowed or you are a Wall Street Banker ...
This is to put a seal of approval on insolvent banks.
This is the same NO TRANSPARENCY nonsense that they are playing right now.
Ask Bloomberg how their suit to find out how our money was spent is going.
Pres. Obama past Senate record...
Present over 100 times
you don't count as "strange" the US Attorneys who resigned when Bush's political office told them to resign, completely outside of custom, norm, and term, with no good cause except their political difference from Bush?
US Attorneys DO serve at the pleasure of the President. There was never any question of Bush's right to request the resignation, except insofar as he was doing it to obstruct justice.
Treasury unavailable
404 Page not found
Bank regulators have used 38 percent of gross income as a benchmark for one mortgage relief program. If a homeowner is spending more than that amount on housing, they may qualify for a streamlined loan program, but the Obama administration may choose a lower percentage as a trigger for relief in any new plan.
In an interview, James Lockhart, the regulator that oversees government-controlled mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, told Reuters the industry was eager to have a standardized loan modification standard.
"I've talked to all the major servicers -- both the big bank ones and the big independent ones -- and they are all ready to go, they're chomping at the bit," Lockhart, the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, said. "The other thing they're asking for standardization."
Lockhart, however, declined to speculate on any plans the administration may be considering. The Treasury Department was not available for comment Thursday afternoon.
I get the distinct sense that we were slipping over the edge and ready to plunge into the deep dark abyss today. PPT reached out & bumped the market back up onto the slippery ledge. Just a matter of time.
I"m good with Smirnoff from Costco.
Mad Mullah
Big end asile price slashing...stock up
I"m good with Smirnoff from Costco.
Mad Mullah
Big end asile price slashing...stock up
Barley | 02.12.09 - 9:11 pm | #
Lefty's got problems... competition is heating up.
Mish's gold article is great. Nver thought of gold as a credit hedge before. Me thinks it may be good to buy some.
Obamas Administration Developing Extended Loan Modification Plan
Page not found - Mortgage Foundation
Barrack Obamas administration developed a braud outline of a plan to help fix the drastically increasing rate of foreclosures by creating incentives for borrowers and lenders to agree to modify mortgages that have fallen behind.The plan is a more aggressive version of James Lockharts, the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, plan that he developed for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac last year. The program Lockhart designed allowed borrowers who were 90 days delinquent on their loans to have their payments lowered to 38 percent of their income. It also allowed the loans to be extended from 30 to 40 years, and it also allowed the interest rate to be reduced as low as 3 percent to make the payments more affordable.
This is a very old trend. We have been doing this for years. We were going to recude costs 50% and pay 10c on the dollar.
Blackhalo | 02.12.09 - 9:00 pm | #
Based on trading statistics both from China and the U.S., Chinese manufacturing depended a lot on imported parts. This is what these guys are changing and it forces them to relocate major engineering functions into China.
My point was that in contrast to what many are saying, we may very well see even MORE movement into China instead of manufacturers leaving China as a result of this severe downturn.
It is in fact all about competitiveness in this environment and with price pressures as severe as they are going to be, many have absolutely no choice.
US Attorneys DO serve at the pleasure of the President. There was never any question of Bush's right to request the resignation, except insofar as he was doing it to obstruct justice.
Fair Economist | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 9:11 pm | #
Fair Econ
The attornies typically resign when there is a transition. Bush's house cleaning mid-way through his Presidency was unprecedented. That was the first tip-off that something was wrong. Well, the first tip-off on that particular story. It was obvious that plenty was wrong long before that in other areas.
whats the vegas book on the over/under on the bANK fAILURE friday?
Lefty's got problems... competition is heating up.
dryfly
Well call Lefty's and if he will price match...
attornies? drinking the bad stuff tonight
That is just dawning on you now?
dryfly | 02.12.09 - 9:08 pm | #
No, but I am not a fan of either party but the schadenfreude is delish. I am a big lover of privacy rights and all personal freedoms and the actions W took in the name of fighting terrorism were asinine.
New Bailout May Top $1.5 Trillion
Plan Aims to Aid Banks, Spur Lending, Push Private Investors to Buy Toxic Assets
New Bailout May Top $1.5 Trillion - washingtonpost.com
The Fannie and Freddie program allowed borrowers who were 90 days delinquent on a loan to have their payments lowered to 38 percent of their income. The loan could also be extended from 30 years to 40 years, and if that was not enough, the interest rate could be reduced to as low as 3 percent to make the payments more affordable.
Consumer advocates say the program was a good start in tackling the foreclosure problem but did not go far enough to help homeowners. For example, the effort did not include measures to cut the principal owed by borrowers whose home values have fallen below their mortgage loan amount. Another requirement -- that borrowers miss three payments before qualifying for help -- has been a troublesome issue, according to some consumer groups.
The government's new approach would make the terms more generous for both the borrowers and lenders. For instance, borrowers who missed only one payment might be able to qualify, Lockhart said. Lenders may be able to reduce payments to a lower percentage of a homeowner's income.
Officials are also planning to set national standards for when banks can legally modify a mortgage -- an important concern for loan servicers who can now only perform modifications that improve the value of the mortgage under the terms of their contracts with investors.
Lockhart said he hoped the new program would be attractive to loan holders, but he added that they had an obligation to increase their modification efforts.
NOT TO WORRY ...! THEY HAVE A NEW PLAN ...!
"Looting Social Security"
Social Security backed securities?
"SSBS"
Sorry, Back to House Of Cards. . .
"Pres. Obama past Senate record...
Present over 100 times"
Ok.. so you are just an idiotic troll.
I actually live in Illinois.. voting present is a common procedural tactic here that is used to get good legislation passed
I suppose you didn't bother to take 2 minutes to read about this before opening your mouth and removing all doubt about your status as a fool
The attornies typically resign when there is a transition. Bush's house cleaning mid-way through his Presidency was unprecedented. That was the first tip-off that something was wrong. Well, the first tip-off on that particular story. It was obvious that plenty was wrong long before that in other area
All true, but Bush did have the legal right to fire them. He did not, and Obama does not, have the right to fire Reich. Completely different situation.
Black dogtail,
didn't only like 5 mortgages qualify under lockharts plan the last time due to unreal income shortcomings and collpased prices? Will this be different? Is this not just a bad bank by a kinder, gentler name. After all, the problem with toxic assets are they are mortgage backed assets! Just repackaging of the same old hose the taxpayer scheme.
Blackhalo & Dryfly
I made the same kind of argument with fellow lefty friends calling for hate speech codes on university campuses back in the early 90's. I suggested it might not be such a good idea to give that kind of power to a court system led by Sup Ct Chief Justice Rehnquist.... Several of them, established and prominent US historians, said, "Oh, I never thought of it that way."
re : joe shmoe | 02.12.09 - 8:57 pm | #
...Geithner is not the brains behind the throne...
...Make all the tool jokes you want. But learn to read the playbook...
So, who is the brains behind the throne and what is the playbook ?
Tell us please.
So you know how Erin Burnett read Misean's comment on the air earlier today?
Yeah. Well, I am uploading it to YouTube now.
"I made the same kind of argument with fellow lefty friends calling for hate speech codes on university campuses back in the early 90's. I suggested it might not be such a good idea to give that kind of power to a court system led by Sup Ct Chief Justice Rehnquist.... Several of them, established and prominent US historians, said, "Oh, I never thought of it that way.""
Bingo +100000
I made the same kind of argument with fellow lefty friends calling for hate speech codes on university campuses back in the early 90's. I suggested it might not be such a good idea to give that kind of power to a court system led by Sup Ct Chief Justice Rehnquist.... Several of them, established and prominent US historians, said, "Oh, I never thought of it that way."
joe shmoe | 02.12.09 - 9:19 pm | #
Exactly - goose & gander thing always screws up the 'partisans'.
Fair Econ
He didn't fire Reich. He didn't fire Cox. He suggested they should resign.
You are too caught up in a formalistic reading of the statutes and that is taking your eye off of the way that power works.
This sort of thing is not at all unusual in the history of the presidency. It is not unlike the phenomena of people like Moynihan taking positions under Presidents like Nixon.
Gregg's withdrawl today is the outlier.
They don't seem to be into capitalism, but they do sell some books and DVDs. Some other people are doing the t-shirts. Marx's book could put me to sleep.
econonoob | 02.12.09 - 8:54 pm | #
Yeah, had to read a bunch of him as an undergrad, part of kapital, all of German Ideology, and of course the manifesto. First two def sleep inducers, but then again all german phiosophers of that era do that. Locke and Mills so much more readable from that era (ok broad deffinition of that era)
Nemo,
No shite....Guess I'll hold off the full test on the 4 VPU's for a bit.
Nostrovia,
Werner
Obama is in charge of his administration, and the playbook has beenon display for more than two years already....Ask Hillary
I told you guys she read it...or some of it at least...sheesh..
What comment did she read?
Nemo which comment was read ?
Wow, that is a real list of winners there.
OTS is unique among the federal bank regulatory agencies in that it supervises holding companies as well as thrift institutions. This results in OTS providing consolidated supervision for such well-known firms as General Electric (GE), AIG, Inc., Ameriprise Financial, American Express, Morgan Stanley, and Merrill Lynch.
RE | 02.12.09 - 9:14 pm
OK, I understand now.
JJL,
This old news talks about mortgages, and I don't know how many tried to use it, but it seems like another failure.
Yet More Doubts About the Subprime Rescue Plan
Yet More Doubts About the Subprime Rescue Plan « naked capitalism
I am not aware of where this stands in the Senate, but when we looked at the plan back in August, we deemed it to be mainly a PR move (see our posts "Bush's FHA Band Aid" and "Bush's Mainly Cosmetic Homeowner Rescue Proposals").
3. Since August, the President has also called on Congress to provide tax relief for mortgage debt forgiven; homeowners who finally find relief shouldnt get put back in financial straits because of the tax code.
Again, although I am not certain of how this is progressing in the Senate, it has become a popular cause. The bill had bipartisan support in the House, so there is no reason to think it won't be approved (as an aside, I have mixed feelings about it, but that's not the point of this discussion).
4. Additionally, Congress needs to complete its work and create a strong, independent regulator for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have an important role to play in making mortgages available and affordable, and appropriate regulatory oversight is critical to their ability to serve their public policy purpose.
Fannie and Freddie are currently in very good hands with their supervisor, OFHEO's toughminded and principled James Lockhart. Despite OFHEO's limited authority over the two GSEs (the call for a new regulator is correct and supported by Lockhart), Lockhart has successfully resisted most efforts to expand their already thinly-capitalized balance sheets. Delay here is less than ideal. However, given that the earliest that Lockhart might be required to lift capital and portfolio-growth restrictions would be after February 2008 (and then only if financial performance warrants it), there appears to be some breathing room on this front.
To CNBS:
Well, they put up an auction sign in front of our condo complex. Since they've been sitting on 70+ REO's with unpaid HOA dues for 4 months, that's good.
As well, the side walk trash is getting tonier. With all the move outs etc., the left behind furniture and stuff is both growing in quantity and quality.
As many are elderly and finding their 401k's depleted, they are moving in with their kids, and that means closer family ties.
But too, many are younger folks who were tied up employment wise to the real estate bubble, moving in with the folks, but the same benefits accrue. The fit hits the shan when you're my age and are in between both moves. Oh well, que sera sera.
But you all on CNBS are doing a fine job. You can get a feel for how well you're doing on the comment section of http://www.calculatedriskblog.com
, if you're interested. My handle is Comrade Misean is Dope. Say hi to the all the folks there. I still like Mark Haines.
Cheers,
This comment
Well, she only read like one sentence. Still pretty funny, though.
YouTube - Shout out to Misean
...is where it will be once YouTube finishes munging it.
RE,
I understand the cost logic. Yet, what happens when the gov, or Cantons, look at rising unemployment?
Kristina --
I know; your alert eyes are the only reason I knew even to look for it.
I record lots of CNBC crap during the day but I almost never watch it.
Bush's recession. Obama's depression.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zQJmnNQgVaA/SZSg-1ccZwI/AAAAAAAAChY/CjRDwrJ5wSY/s1600-h/stimulus.gif
"Back in 2005 I posted frequently on the progress of the proposed new guidance. I spoke with a number of regulators in 2005 and 2006 who were involved in the process, and a number of them expressed frustration with both the Fed and the OTS."
Did it evwer occur to you, CR, that you were operating in... the system of the Crooks, by the crooks, and for the Crooks?
Just curious,
Jas
Holy crap...that's even funnier that way. Thanks Nemo...I dvr bloomtv.
Nostrovia,
"Bush's recession. Obama's depression."
Sorry.. we were in a depression before Obama ever took office
Thanks for playing
Hoover didn't get to blame FDR
YouTube - ? v=VqG8eTj4zbI
...is where it will be once YouTube finishes munging it.
Nemo
A B&B in Arkansas? Why?
Back in 1972 I was sitting with some friends in front of Oakton High School smoking a bowl. I said to them:
In 1992 I will be old
In 2004 There will be houses around here
In 2005 there will be foreigners everywhere we look
I said other profound things but they were recorded as we decided to go buy beer.
Misean,
That was clasic.
Glad you liked the music from Rodrigo y Gabriella.
I left another video early this morning for you.
Black Keys "thickfreakness"
YouTube - The Black Keys- thickfreakness (Live TV)
A B&B in Arkansas? Why?
Um...
For context?
Nemo, is that "interesting" in a 'maybe I'll let you buy me a drink, but that's all" kind of way? Or an "interesting" in a "get this slimy thing off me NOW" kind of way?
The funniest part to me was thinking of her reading the rest of his letter...
The Bush Depression is here! writes:
"Bush's recession. Obama's depression."
Sorry.. we were in a depression before Obama ever took office
Thanks for playing
Sorry, but we weren't. Obviously you don't understand politics or the level of ignorance in the American people.
A B&B in Arkansas? Why?
cornface | 02.12.09 - 9:37 pm | #
Cheaper than a hotel anywhere else. AK is a fantastic vacation spot for those on a budget. The low end bar that I am a partner in is booming too. The high end is where the pain will be.
Mike,
Thanks.
CK...
XOXO
Nostrovia,
scone --
Nemo, is that "interesting" in a 'maybe I'll let you buy me a drink, but that's all" kind of way?
I am sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about. I think one of us is maybe confused?
There is a state park in Arkansas where you can look for diamonds and keep what you find.
Ikea use to be a Swedish company that made quality, inexpensive furniture in Sweden and sold it around the world. Then, they got bit by China.
I'm sure they outsourced little by little. What happened to Ikea is that they became a Chinese company. The instructions no longer match the products, and they are indecipherable anyway. The screws don't match the holes. Nothing exactly fits and everything is as cheap as can be.
Chinese outsourcing has killed Ikea.
Nemo
For gods sake man! She is hitting on you!
cnbc "house of Cards"
lawn grass | 02.12.09 - 8:10 pm | #
House of Shills would be more like it for CNBC.
As far as the special, why would anybody here go there for enlightenment?
Chinese outsourcing has killed Ikea.
rich | 02.12.09 - 9:42 pm | #
Not the store by me. It is almost too crowded to be worth my time.
joe shmoe writes:
...Obama is in charge of his administration,...
Well, could be.
However, I saw several senate hearings a few years ago with an then totally unknown junior senator sitting far from the center of the aisle. I remember his questions were not dump or plain "run off the mill", but not especially intelligent either. Pretty similar to Norm Coleman (except for the party) was my impression (and much better than Hillary who once almost fell asleep).
...and the playbook has beenon display for more than two years already....Ask Hillary...
Are you serious ? You think she would tell me (or anyone else) the truth ?
For gods sake man! She is hitting on you!
Why do I always attract the crazy ones?
I remember a coworker, speaking of another coworkers house: "Its Ikea-ish"
Five years later I figured out that she was insulting her.
Nemo, when will the video be working?
Not to mention some great trout fishing in Arkansas.
Cheaper than a hotel anywhere else. AK is a fantastic vacation spot for those on a budget. The low end bar that I am a partner in is booming too. The high end is where the pain will be.
Blackhalo | 02.12.09 - 9:41 pm | #
ummm...BH, Alaska is a fantastic vacation spot but about those prices...
For those of you not plugged into the legal community, there hvae been a staggering, stupendous number of layoffs today and this week in general. Here's an email I sent off to CR:
I know you don't usually cover random law layoffs, but a huge number of law firms laid off attorneys today. This is an unprecedented bloodbath. DLA Piper laid off 140 people in the UK on Tuesday and today cut another 80 lawyers and 100 staff in the US, Holland & Knight laid off 243, including 70 lawyers, Epstein Becker lays off 23 attorneys and 30 staff, Bryan Cave cut 58 attorneys and 76 staffers, Luce Forward laid off 27 attorneys on Monday and today cancelled their entire 2009 summer program, Faegre & Benson cuts 29 attorneys, Cadwalader laid off 3 attorneys in london, a small count but Cad is one of the big names, Cozen O'Connor laid off 55 secretaries and 6 paralegals, all in all an incredible day.
Abovethelaw.com, a legal gossip rag, is keeping track of the layoffs, but they have done it firm by firm and haven't consolidated them into a single post.
Comrade Kristina --
It is working for me already...
For those of you not plugged into the legal community, there hvae been a staggering, stupendous number of layoffs today and this week in general.
Hoopajoops, LTD | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 9:47 pm | #
Must be hard times for those Bush admin staffers.
Comrade Kristina -
YouTube - Shout out to Misean
Alaska is a fantastic vacation spot
citizen energyecon | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 9:47 pm | #
Ooops, AR of course.
Must be hard times for those Bush admin staffers.
Blackhalo | 02.12.09 - 9:49 pm
Naw, they are already migrating to teaching positions at the Jim Jones School of Law
Why do I always attract the crazy ones?
Nemo | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 9:46 pm | #
Nemo, Nemo, Nemo...it will all be much clearer once you accept that not only are all women crazy, all men are as well...everyone is crazy.
Bush wouldn't have been such a bad president if he had not appointed so many clowns and tools to important positions.
Beach Blvd | 02.12.09 - 8:19 pm | #
Bush wouldn't have been Bush if he had not appointed so many clowns and tools to important positions.
Blackhalo writes:
Must be hard times for those Bush admin staffers.
Nobody is touching them with a ten foot pole. Alberto Gonzales is still unemployed. When I worked for the US Attorney's office I walked in every day to the seal of the department of justice with Gonzo's portrait on one side, and Bush'es portrait on the other. It was like a daily reminder of the shit his administration was doing to the DOJ.
Here's a funny poem about today's layoffs:
Black Thursday
On a windy Manhattan winter day
With the economy tanking under skies of gray
Associates and staff met an unkind end
As PPPs continued to descend
Dechert released nineteen by noon
And greater losses would be announced soon
Next came news from Bryan Cave
Where fifty-eight young careers went to the grave
Goodwin Proctor continued the act
Wheen seventy-four employees were promptly sacked
Then fell the ax at Holland & Knight
The steady paychecks of hundreds vanished from sight
An industry leader in expanding too fast
DLA Piper added scores more to the unemployed caste
Then a large cull from the North Star state
As twenty-nine associates met a cruel fate
Cadwalader sent sixteen Londoners to redundancy consultation
But a week without Cadwalader layoffs would be quite the aberration
The final cut of the day came at a mid-size shop
Where more than fifty felt the ax drop
Our sorrow is deep for our colleagues fired en masse
But do keep in mind that this too shall pass
We share in your pain, your shame, your dismay
On this darkest of dark, this Black Thursday
Wow, Farooq, isn't that Werners twin?
[The Bush Depression is here! writes:
"Bush's recession. Obama's depression."]
Don't kid yourself for 1 second. It will be Obama's depression, the one he made worse than it would have otherwise been. The fork in the road where we took the wrong turn. In 3 months or less. It'll be the longest lame duck session in history.
Bet on it.
Larry Summers in one of the chief architects of this economic mess.
Werner,
Who is your date for Valentines Day now that Leni is finally dead?
People need to realize the Greenspan, Reich and others were free market ideologues.
It might be helpful to make a distinction between free markets and unregulated markets.
If Greenspan claimed to be a "free market idealogue" his actions say otherwise - people who believe in free markets don't make a career out of setting the price of money and credit.
This is the opposite of a free market.
The problem was that these market regulators allowed markets to be free only when asset prices went up - then they intervened aggresively when they began to go down. It should be no surprise that this caused a bubble.
Again, Greenspan illustrates the problem with regulation/regulators in general: Just because somebody is a regulator doesn't mean that they are morally or intellectually superior to anyone else.
It just means they have more capacity to do good or harm.
The question is whether we can ensure that they do good rather than harm.
If we can't then they shouldn't be there.
Werner,
She is dead right? You did know that? You don't have anything in your basement that we should know about?
thanks popeye, my link was bad...funny stuff. She should have read the whole thing...
Search for diamonds, go trout fishing then sit around with old people at a B&B in Arkansas. What a blast!
Why is Arkansas pronounces Arkansaw and Kansas is not pronounced Kansaw?
For gods sake man! She is hitting on you!
Why do I always attract the crazy ones?
Nemo
.
At least they're female. And human.
This show on CNBC is amazing. If you are not watching it make sure to catch it when it is on the next time.
It is called House of Cards.
This show on CNBC is amazing. If you are not watching it make sure to catch it when it is on the next time.
It is called House of Cards.
Bubbles
It's about G.E.?
Wow, I just had an awesome idea. What if people sent their fotos and handles and we put them up?
Werner, I have an old foto of Borman I can use for you.
ac writes:
"The problem was that these market regulators allowed markets to be free only when asset prices went up - then they intervened aggresively when they began to go down. It should be no surprise that this caused a bubble."
Thank you. Maybe now we can stop complaining that the "free market" was at the root of this problem. We have never had a free market - at least, not in my lifetime. Rather, we had bunch of crazed wizard-wannabes yanking the levers back and forth for years. It's amazing that they didn't manage to crash the economy much sooner than they did.
everyone is crazy.
citizen energyecon
heh, I ressemble that!
In other words I am a ressembler
(second-person singular imperative)
Toyota is cutting its American division...
Toyota's North American cuts
10% reduction in workweek at some plants
Buyout offer to hourly workers: $20,000 plus 10 weeks' pay, 2 weeks' extra pay for each year of service
Wage freeze for all workers
Bonuses eliminated for 3,000 executives, salaried workers
Executives' pay will be cut
From Marketwatch.
Wonder how those Senators Kyl, Corker Shelby feel now?
--
"Sorry.. we were in a depression before Obama ever took office"
The Bush Depression is here!,
FYI, this depression, which would turn into the Greater Depression, was caused by three evildoers -- Greenspan, Bush and Bernanke -- for their personal pursuit of power. Rubin-Clinton-Summers had something to do with it also during the Scam Market bubble of 1990s. Power corrupts Both parties are political gangs and are operated by financial gangsters.
Evil occurs in many forms and in the UK and the US it took the financial form. Evil leaders dont just happen in other countries. Americans would suffer during the first half of the 21st century as much as Germans did during the first half of the 20th century and would cause more destruction worldwide. American hubris is no lesser than the German hubris of hundred years ago. Furthermore, Americans and their leaders, blinded by the Money Culture, are intellectually and morally inferior to Germans of a hundred years ago.
Jas
Jas, I got a picture of Goofy for you.
ac,
You know, once again preaching to the choir, mi amigo.
Nostrovia,
fried writes:
"Wonder how those Senators Kyl, Corker Shelby feel now?"
Still better than the senators from Michigan...
ova better yet, pick a handle and we will find an appropiate pic
Alberto Gonzales is still unemployed.
Hoopajoops, LTD | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 9:51 pm | #
Not much demand for evil henchmen these days? I guess with the bankers and Wall st. on the ropes and under scrutiny, it would make things even harder. Oil in the toilet too... What is an accoplished sycophant to do? Even K-street is probably looking for some (D) cred these days. I chuckle at the thought of these guys sticking it out to the end of an 8 year rainbow for a big nothingburger.
Your last job was where?!?!
Hoopajoops, LTD
I like this version better :
Black Thursday
On a windy Manhattan winter day
I would like to see'em jump and d..
blinded by the Money Culture, are intellectually and morally inferior to Germans of a hundred years ago.
Jas, you say some stupid shit but that was awesome in its pure head up your assness
"Looting Social Security, by William Greider, The Nation: Governing elites in Washington and Wall Street have devised a fiendishly clever "grand bargain" they want President Obama to embrace in the name of "fiscal responsibility." The government, they argue, having spent billions on bailing out the banks, can recover its costs by looting the Social Security system.
mock turtle | 02.12.09 - 8:34 pm | #
Here's the funniest part about all this: the Social Security Trust Fund has NOTHING of value. There is nothing there - just government IOUs. They are not even Treasuries, they are special non-neotiable treasuries. There sin't on cent in there that the government could disburse without a) selling debt or b) raising taxes or c) cutting other spending.
I'm surprised floks here don't know this.
since we seem to be on the subject of the Swiss I'll let Orson Welles' Harry Lime from The Third Man weigh in: Harry Lime:
"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock ..."
Blackhalo writes:
"..Alberto Gonzales is still unemployed... Not much demand for evil henchmen these days?"
Alberto needs to brush up on his skillz:
The Evil Henchman's Guide
On a windy Manhattan winter day
I would like to see'em jump and d..
Werner | 02.12.09 - 10:03 pm
I think we call that 9/11
Here is CR:
http://www.rudecactus.com/archives/mullet-thumb.jpg
Here is C&C:
http://clip.break.com/dnet/media/2007/10/24oct9-kid-mullet.jpg
nova:
http://www.kulspruta.com/Disfear/WEB/Galleries/USA_2004/images/07-Marcus%20with%20his%20mullet.jpg
Because the program is not supposed to work, but proposing it is supposed flush out criticism that will push the administration to a more radical step, nationalization or the like.
Geithner went out in public to be the lightening rod, to take the flak. Geithner is the decoy duck to get the real ducks out for shooting. Geithner is the crash test dummy, to be banged up in collisions so that when the real leader goes forward with the real plan it will be safe and work.
Geithner is not the brains behind the throne. He is a tool of the administration and went out to take one for the team, which means for Obama.
Make all the tool jokes you want. But learn to read the playbook.
joe shmoe | 02.12.09 - 8:57 pm | #
Exactly. But in the political blog world we call it rope-a-dope. Obama has mastered this technique beyond measure because 1. he has excellent foresight 2. he has excellent sense of timing. 3. he understands human nature. 4. he doesn't allow chattering classes to force his hand.
5. he is NOT a reactionary. (much to the dismay of many progressives)
If folks haven't realized this yet, they simply have not paid attention.
Barley. I am not feeling the love.
Toyota is cutting its American division...
~~~~
Just the beginning ... The number of used cars coming to market because of repossessions and individual sales is skyrocketing.
Then there are those lots, acres, square miles of new cars sitting around ports all over America ...
They can't cut production fast enough. They even have their Corolla on sale ...
donailin and joe shmoe, I agree with that synopsis.
And, God Bless, Jas:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh124/pdd808/Mullet.jpg
Barley,
BWAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHA!
sm_landlord,
Al could always play the video game Evil Genius. Sharpen his skills a bit.
Nostrovia,
It's 10 p.m. where I am. Is that late enough to be off topic?
Thought someone might want to hear this once again, from the Statue of Liberty:
The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Emma Lazarus, 1883
Well, if nothing else, the homeless, tempest-tost part may be quite prophetic.
Alberto Gonzales is still unemployed.
~~~~
Hopefully he'll be employed in his own torture defense ...
CR has a mullet?
ac writes:
"The problem was that these market regulators allowed markets to be free only when asset prices went up - then they intervened aggresively when they began to go down. It should be no surprise that this caused a bubble."
Thank you. Maybe now we can stop complaining that the "free market" was at the root of this problem. We have never had a free market - at least, not in my lifetime. Rather, we had bunch of crazed wizard-wannabes yanking the levers back and forth for years. It's amazing that they didn't manage to crash the economy much sooner than they did.
sm_landlord
Mises had some insight on the phenonmenon. From what I've seen in the past couple of years I have to conclude the assesment is dead on the money:
Why Do Intellectuals Oppose Capitalism?
Intellectuals now expect to be the most highly valued people in a society, those with the most prestige and power, those with the greatest rewards. Intellectuals feel entitled to this. But, by and large, a capitalist society does not honor its intellectuals. Ludwig von Mises explains the special resentment of intellectuals, in contrast to workers, by saying they mix socially with successful capitalists and so have them as a salient comparison group and are humiliated by their lesser status. However, even those intellectuals who do not mix socially are similarly resentful, while merely mixing is not enough--the sports and dancing instructors who cater to the rich and have affairs with them are not noticeably anti-capitalist.
In other words, the attacks on free markets largely come down to insecurity and selfishness.
America has always been a land of opportunity. That is why the Ponzi scheme was invented here and continues to flourish.
Search for diamonds, go trout fishing then sit around with old people at a B&B in Arkansas. What a blast!
cornface | 02.12.09 - 9:55 pm | #
Hot springs, was like a pre housing boom Vegas the last time I was there. A bit of an out of date, but very cool resort thing going on. They must have a casino now, cause it looks much better developed now.
thinkin of you nova:
http://bluebuddies.com/Smurf_Picture_and_Files/00000002/Have_A_Smurfy_Valentines_Day.jpg
"Don't kid yourself for 1 second. It will be Obama's depression, the one he made worse than it would have otherwise been. The fork in the road where we took the wrong turn. In 3 months or less. It'll be the longest lame duck session in history."
Wow..... it's awesome how Obama has already been blamed for the last 8 years of malfeasance when he hasn't even been president for a month..
Wait.. do you think this is all due to the CRA?
There is nothing there - just government IOUs. They are not even Treasuries, they are special non-neotiable treasuries.
~~~~
Cash flow stream ...
ova writes:
Wow, I just had an awesome idea. What if people sent their fotos and handles and we put them up?
.
Actually, I have a mental picture of some of you. Margin Call is wearing a 3-piece suit, but with a face like a squid. BlackHalo is the Grim Reaper. Comrade Kristina is a Slayer. Nova looks like, well, a Nova. Comrade Misean is Trotsky in a toga. Lawyerliz looks like T'Pau. And Nemo is a nautical captain-type from the waist up, with a fish tail below.
In other words, the attacks on free markets largely come down to insecurity and selfishness.
Or, more likely, defenders of the "free markets" are stupid.
That is why the Ponzi scheme was invented here and continues to flourish.
alto
Not to burst your bubble, but the "Ponzi" scheme is a Canadian thingy..
The Bush Depression is here! poster is quite the Obama fanboi. Keep it down, youre dry humping every comment critical of your fearless leader will evetually lead to a wet sticky mess, and then you'll have to sleep outside in the doghouse.
Remember the "Starve the beast" philosophy? How about "Bankrupt the beast" twist to it?
From The Nation
Governing elites in Washington and Wall Street have devised a fiendishly clever "grand bargain" they want President Obama to embrace in the name of "fiscal responsibility." The government, they argue, having spent billions on bailing out the banks, can recover its costs by looting the Social Security system. They are also targeting Medicare and Medicaid. The pitch sounds preposterous to millions of ordinary working people anxious about their economic security and worried about their retirement years. But an impressive armada is lined up to push the idea--Washington's leading think tanks, the prestige media, tax-exempt foundations, skillful propagandists posing as economic experts and a self-righteous billionaire spending his fortune to save the nation from the elderly.
These players are promoting a tricky way to whack Social Security benefits, but to do it behind closed doors so the public cannot see what's happening or figure out which politicians to blame. The essential transaction would amount to misappropriating the trillions in Social Security taxes that workers have paid to finance their retirement benefits. This swindle is portrayed as "fiscal reform." In fact, it's the political equivalent of bait-and-switch fraud.
Read the whole thing
MrM - also if you fit a tinfoil hat just right you might be able to see that this ploy was to nationalize banks in a effort to set a base for a sovereign wealth fund
"The Bush Depression is here! poster is quite the Obama fanboi. Keep it down, youre dry humping every comment critical of your fearless leader will evetually lead to a wet sticky mess, and then you'll have to sleep outside in the doghouse."
No I'm just shooting down moronic wingnuts.... Obama has done many things I don't like so far.. however, I'm withholding judgement until I see where we are in a couple of years
I have a problem with people trying to blame the idiocy of the worst president in US history, bush... on Obama
Obama may end up sucking.. who knows.. but this premature judging is quite frankly childish crap...
Yep. If you look at the Fed budget pie chart, chopping Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Defense, and "Other Discretionary" looks almost doable.
scone,
As long as you look like Rose Tyler...
Nostrovia,
Wait.. do you think this is all due to the CRA?
The Bush Depression is here! | 02.12.09 - 10:11 pm | #
Ugh, that STILL pop up on FOX news weekly. I have co-workers who still do not get it. I need a link to CRA debunked.
ova writes:
On a windy Manhattan winter day
I would like to see'em jump and d..
Werner | 02.12.09 - 10:03 pm
I think we call that 9/11
Nope!
"would like to see" is "future tense" . (I think.) So, ....
Not to burst your bubble, but the "Ponzi" scheme is a Canadian thingy..
Barley | 02.12.09 - 10:13 pm | #
I thought is was Italian?
Your saying the president is the brains of the outfit an not a fugurehead? What happens if he dicides to take advantage of all the new toys the previous admin left behind?
Blackhalo | 02.12.09 - 9:03 pm | #
It's okay. He's more into Legos than GI Joe.
Oh come on it wasn't CRA it was all F and F...They caused this whole thing, they and Barney Frank...Oh shit, I'm stuck in a Fox news loops...help...
I watched the last minute of House of Cards. Greenspan looks like someone took him out of the grave, put makeup on him, and moved his arms and limbs with puppet strings.
"Ugh, that STILL pop up on FOX news weekly. I have co-workers who still do not get it. I need a link to CRA debunked."
Won't help you... you CAN NOT argue with true believers.. .they will tell you that any source that refutes their argument is "liberal propaganda"
It's the same as trying to argue with people who don't accept evolution..
Misean, the best part is that you still have 14 min 48 seconds of fame remaining!
That reminds me - Dylan's been lifting my whole repartoire lately. If I wasn't so fucking profane, that bastard would probably be quoting me verbatim.
"The Toyota City, Japan-based carmaker plans additional reductions in its assembly schedule for April, and is creating a job-sharing program at some plants, spokesman Mike Goss said."
Add the these reductions to those listed in a post aobe ...Toyota is moving to stop the bleeding.
The essential transaction would amount to misappropriating the trillions in Social Security taxes that workers have paid to finance their retirement benefits.
MrM | 02.12.09 - 10:14 pm | #
What is with this? Get a clue. Regan already spent it.
scone --
You are way off. Here, I uploaded a picture of myself for you.
MrM writes:
"From The Nation"
Note the program the Greider is advocating as he flogs his book. What are the odds that such a program would end up just like another edition of Social Security? Pretty certain, I think.
"Regan already spent it."
That bitch.
Oh come on it wasn't CRA it was all F and F...They caused this whole thing, they and Barney Frank...Oh shit, I'm stuck in a Fox news loops...help...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.12.09 - 10:20 pm |
This clip should remedy the situation.
It's not habit forming!
"Oh come on it wasn't CRA it was all F and F...They caused this whole thing, they and Barney Frank...Oh shit, I'm stuck in a Fox news loops...help..."
IMO Fox news and the like have done more damage to this country that almost anything I can think of.
What's funny is I have some REAL conservative friends and they can't stand fox news.. they think it makes their entire idelogy look like it's for stupid hillbillies
It's okay. He's more into Legos than GI Joe.
Feckless Ness | 02.12.09 - 10:20 pm | #
I'm more concerned about a Boris Badanoff/Great Leader my self. That Patriot Act and the warrentless wiretapping are tools of the devil.
"I think we call that 9/11
Nope!
"would like to see" is "future tense" . (I think.) So, ....
Werner "
What is it about human suffering and slaughter that so amuses the Germans?
"IMO Fox news and the like have done more damage to this country that almost anything I can think of."
Mortgages? KFC?
Shnaps,
Meh...But I'd be pissed about the Dylan thing...Glod that guys voice sucks.
;P
Nostrovia,
"Jas, you say some stupid shit but that was awesome in its pure head up your assness"
++++1
scone,
As long as you look like Rose Tyler...
Nostrovia,
Comrade Misean is Dope
.
Alas! More like Miss Marple...
Dylan sings like a magpie.
Nemo - sorry for confusing you with Misean.
Misean - you still have your full 15 min.
Reich, why didn't you leave with some pizazz, like this:
CBC News - Calgary - Man sets himself on fire on downtown Calgary street
[ sound of bad karma ]
scone --
You are way off. Here, I uploaded a picture of myself for you.
Nemo
.
I see. That accounts for the evil plots, then.
That bitch.
Elvis
have to go get paper towel...spewed crisps everywhere
This clip should remedy the situation.
Comrade Tech Sargent Chen | 02.12.09 - 10:23 pm | #
Ah U-Tube, life is OK.
ztexas - if true, he will have a months of free medical care and can now apply for refugee status on the basis he will shuned b/c of his physical appearence...
seriously tho...a shame someone becomes so desperate, a real shame
scone,
Well...I look rather a bit more like Dude in Big Lebowski.
Though, Trotsky in a toga is pretty close.
Nostrovia,
Misean ! ! !!
WAHHOOOO ! ! !
"Thats sort of an interesting way of looking at it!"
ROTFLOL ! ! ! !!
..........
The Last Picture Show...
YouTube -
$146 Million Gifts
Individuals and political-action committees representing securities and investment firms contributed $146 million to federal political campaigns in 2007 and 2008, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a Washington-based research group that tracks money flows in U.S. politics.
Insurance companies were good for $44 million over the same period
Bank Recovery Stalls on Donations to Congress: Michael R. Sesit - Bloomberg.com
Well...I look rather a bit more like Dude in Big Lebowski.
Though, Trotsky in a toga is pretty close.
Nostrovia,
Comrade Misean is Dope
.
If Trotsky were around today, he'd be wearing a big beard, a bathrobe, and an axe.
fried writes:
"I think we call that 9/11
Nope!
"would like to see" is "future tense" . (I think.) So, ....
Werner "
What is it about human suffering and slaughter that so amuses the Germans?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ask Pavel. He will tell you that Christianity teaches that evildoers go to hell and burn there in eternity.
That is suffering, not splashing on the asphalt of Wall Street.
Doc - good flick never seen it but i liked it....
I figure most of the finance geeks here are boned up on the mechanics but for those who arent check out this... I find it very informative. You dont get to ask questions but the professor will repeat the same thing over and over!
YouTube - bionicturtledotcom Channel
.............
Nemo, that's a head shot. You could still have a fish tail.
"Sorry.. we were in a depression before Obama ever took office"
The Bush Depression is here!,
FYI, this depression, which would turn into the Greater Depression, was caused by three evildoers -- Greenspan, Bush and Bernanke -- for their personal pursuit of power. Rubin-Clinton-Summers had something to do with it also during the Scam Market bubble of 1990s. Power corrupts Both parties are political gangs and are operated by financial gangsters.
Evil occurs in many forms and in the UK and the US it took the financial form. Evil leaders dont just happen in other countries. Americans would suffer during the first half of the 21st century as much as Germans did during the first half of the 20th century and would cause more destruction worldwide. American hubris is no lesser than the German hubris of hundred years ago. Furthermore, Americans and their leaders, blinded by the Money Culture, are intellectually and morally inferior to Germans of a hundred years ago.
Jas
Jas Jain
This is why we'd be nothing around here without Jas.
I was thinking something similar earlier today:
We've substituted money for purpose and authority for morality - that's why we're dying as a nation.
Misean--I heard her say that today!!!
Has anyone asked for a summary of the 56,876 comments yet?
Cuz I could use one.
for those souls who have built some safety net around divies:
It survived the Great Depression, two world wars and several recessions, but the much-storied Dow Chemical Co. [DOW-N] dividend was no match for the credit crunch.
In what is shaping up as the worst year for dividend cuts in more than six decades, the world's second-largest chemical maker slashed its payout yesterday by 64 per cent the first decrease since the company was founded by Canadian-born chemist Herbert Henry Dow in 1897.
The bottom line is dividends have been getting killed
someone read Misean comments on cnbc, jas still hates everyone. ac has an astute observation two post above this one. hummm...
thats actually i read!