orma writes:
I wonder when there is going to be a real run on the banks? When people wake up and realize the banks don't have any money, except theirs ... any guesses?
norma | 02.13.09 - 9:52 pm | #
Norma, its not worth even that
the run on the banks will happen when the sheeple realize the banks dont even have their (the sheeples) money
Hooo boy, this should go the prepack route but man the sh!t and blood will fly all the way down the supply chain, and all the way up the capital structure (read: bondholders and CDS writers)...
the last to go will watch the others go before her
wanna play ball scarecrow ahahahahahah
Washington sees nation's largest drop in sales
By AUBREY COHEN
P-I REPORTER
Sales of existing homes fell further in Washington than in any other state in the fourth quarter of 2008, according to a report Thursday.
HOME SALES
In Washington:
-35.6%
from a year earlier and a seasonally adjusted 10.7% from the third quarter
Nationwide:
-5.9%
from a year earlier
and a seasonally adjusted 6.4% from the third quarter
The state had 76,800 sales of existing houses and condominiums in the quarter, down 35.6 percent from a year earlier and a seasonally adjusted 10.7 percent from the third quarter, according to the National Association of Realtors. The quarterly change was good for 37th place among states and Washington, D.C.
"I am not surprised that we have one of the weakest performances out there," said Glenn Crellin, director of the Washington Center for Real Estate Research at Washington State University. "It's largely a reflection of (the fact that) we began to decline much later, so our cycle is less mature, if you will, than some of the other parts of the country that have already taken their lumps."
If they made a commitment to come back with a plan and fail to do so, what should be done with them? With a bankruptcy, a debt-free, better managed company might emerge. The present crew is incompetent.
GM owes me the last 60 days of shipments that I made to them. I say "Hell ya! Give them the money so that I can get paid and I don,t have to lay off 140 workers!!"
Comrade Dazed and Amused writes:
GM owes me the last 60 days of shipments that I made to them. I say "Hell ya! Give them the money so that I can get paid and I don,t have to lay off 140 workers!!"
Did they use the last bailout to pay their suppliers? The suppliers, too, are looking for a bailout.
No - if they are getting tapped as a funding source, they bought a ticket to the show - so every taxpayer has the right and obligation to express their view...now the weighting that view will receive is another story altogether.
Excessive reliance on elites to the exclusion of other views is a big part of why we are here today.
Johnson closed by pointing to precedents in US history: 1) the swedish model would work through an expanded FDIC, which is an institution and set of practices already there, 2) he discussed FDR, 3) he discussed Teddy Roosevelt and trust busting...
First of all, this is all exactly correct. And, as a caveat, he should mention that both Roosevelt's were members of a great Patrician family.
But the point I really want to add is this: exactly how did the issue of the relation between American traditions and the Swedish model get framed?
Hop with me into the way back machine. Set the dial for ancient history, which means last Tuesday night, I think. And pull up that Nightline video in which Obama framed the issue in exactly that way: The Swedish model worked, but the US has more banks than Sweden and different traditions.
So Johnson points to dyed in the wool American traditions, and he also says the big banks can be pecked off one at a time.
The issue is no longer the bogeyman of NATIONALIZATION, in scare capital letters taken out of socialist realism. No, it is merely a technical question......
Excessive reliance on elites to the exclusion of other views is a big part of why we are here today. citizen energyecon | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:12 pm | #
I've noticed more and more people I know taking an interest in economics now, even if only in a casual way. But actually discussing headlines and looking for more info. It's a step.
Nemo - Propaganda on the part of the person doing the press-release. Laziness/stupidity on the part of the outlet relaying the info instead of analyzing/reporting the story.
I merely meant that people should educate themselves a bit before forming an opinion.
The last time we went through this, a bunch of morons ran around screaming about "2 million jobs!!!11!" based on a model that could only apply in liquidation.
We are talking about restructuring. Which will make shareholders and executives and bondholders (hello PIMCO) and the UAW howl, but is obviously the right choice for the other 300 million people in the country.
Son of a ____! Just found out my brother is in escrow on a house in the OC. He didn't tell me because he new about my outlook, etc. There goes that 20% downpayment.
wally - good point. "Face" is not a concept restricted to Asia. I've seen politicians go visceral when insulted or taken for granted. And this is when I was simultaneously counseling restraint.
The failure to disclose where all of the bailout money has gone is the crux of the crimes being committed against the citizens of the United States.
I've bailed out a few people in my life due to their bad choices. I have never given them the money directly but have taken their past due bills and paid them. How hard is it to have the accounts payable be directed to give the bills to the government and pay them? Or simply ask for sworn statements from the CEO/Board of Directors as to where the money will be used. Having run several businesses I would never hand over cash to one of my crucial suppliers and let them decide how to spend my money. Ludicrous.
"Charter Communications Prepares to File Bankruptcy
St. Louis based Charter Communications, controlled by Microsoft co–founder Paul Allen, is the nation's fourth largest cable operator. It has 5.5 million subscribers mostly in central and western Massachusetts. The company notified its creditors on Thursday of plans to file a so–called prearranged Chapter 11 bankruptcy by April first. That means Charters reorganization has the approval of major stakeholders. Charter has been on the ropes for years. The company has not turned a profit since it went public in 1999. Patricia Edwards is an analyst with Seattle based Store House partners. Edwards says Charter's financial situation parallels the economic struggles its customers are facing: Do I pay for cable, or do I pay the mortgage? "
Nemo writes:
Put another way, whenever anybody argues against bankruptcy for the automakers, your first question should be, "Which kind of bankruptcy?"
If they are unable to answer, then they are not qualified to have an opinion, much less express one.
Nemo | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:08 pm | #
Nemo
Let me suggest a different approach: try to explain it to them.
Cars are coffins. They are dangerous to anyone who gets near one. They are wasteful and smelly. Car exhaust clogs your lungs. The roads are covered with people incapacitated with alcohol, prescription drugs, age, stupidity and media. We should all give our cars to the blind and ride our bikes on the beach.
The last time we went through this, a bunch of morons ran around screaming about "2 million jobs!!!11!" based on a model that could only apply in liquidation. Nemo | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:16 pm | #
I know outcomes and predictions calm the herds, but what about dropping numerical expectations and working out a good 'process'. The outcome may not be something you can make a sound bite from, but maybe letting go of that mindset will open up dialog on getting to what works to work it out. Obviously, people dealing with this crap are up against new scenarios, and we all know the saying about the definition of insanity....
The evil of cars is this removal of man from his environment. This is false sense of freedom. Interaction within the nurturing protection of our living environment has been replaced by the air conditioned automotive evisceration of our orb, cut into by highways, belched upon by exhaust fumes. Track marks cut across the beating chest of our planet, leading to the latest offering of cancer by some corporation. The insulation of a car severs you from the lay of the land. It keeps you from hearing the message of the Earth.
Less than one percent of the cars on the road contain someone on their way to work. Mediamobiles. People are driving around talking on the phone, eating, yelling at the kids who are fighting over the channel of the TV in the dashboard while flipping off the car behind. Fighting for every inch of perfectly flat, perfectly painted, well lit, well marked road speckled with less obtrusive advertisements, shrugging off every near miss protected only by faith in the yellow line separating me from certain death just on the other side of the line
lawyer liz: I don't own the company, it's a corporation (MGA). I'm just a plant manager at a plant that makes engine parts.
The sales contracts with the OEMs make it very difficult to not ship to them. A few Chrysler suppliers tried to do that last year, and wound up in court.
The tier 1s have been supporting the OEMs since last year. I'm dragging out payments to tier 2s, and so on down the line. The whole house of cards may collapse pretty soon.
This is on my personal warning signs of the apocalypse. The death of the American auto industy, or at least radical shrinking. Good bye jobs that pay. Hello nothing.
Man, this kind of stuff makes me angry, which is so counterproductive.
Charter Chapter 11? It's mind-boggling they have lasted this long. Folks in St. Louis knew they were toast- conversations I had with management (I handled some of their telecom)- back in 1998!
Ah, thanks for the clarification - just so - engaging dormant critical reasoning skills (or forming them) is heavy lifting...one task of many for citizens of the republic, but the absolute first requirement to transition from consumer to citizen.
Must be open season to dump questionable ventures and start over once the fallout drops to a tolerable level.
What you are describing is the single best thing about America: We tolerate failure. We allow big old creaky sclerotic businesses to fail and make way for something else.
joe shmoe writes:
But the point I really want to add is this: exactly how did the issue of the relation between American traditions and the Swedish model get framed?
Bashing of the Soc-Dem approaches practiced by much of continental Europe and Canada is a time honored American tradition that goes back to Reagan and makes Americans feel better about themselves regardless of facts on the ground. Just think of the typical discourse about health care - a comment like "Do you suggest we should go the Swedish/French/Canadian route?" is often viewed as the killer argument, sort of like Reductio ad absurdum. Once put like this, the answer is obvious to the average American.
The American people are not suffering badly enough (yet?) to accept the fact that the country needs to be chastened in order to be mended.
I've said it many times - we need to face Churchillian "Blood, Toil, Tears and Sweat" truth (well, without the Blood piece, I hope).
If the governments does a debtor-in-possession thing and provides financing to the suppliers they can avoid any negative impact to Ford/Chrysler/the foreign makers operating in the US.
This would be a huge negotiating tactic for the government. Threatening to give money to the suppliers keeps everyone else in business and in fact makes the other automakers stronger. Under this scenario GM can cease to exist while the rest scramble to hire workers and increase production. Despite the crashing economy GM is still selling 110,000 cars a month.
Man, this kind of stuff makes me angry, which is so counterproductive. nova | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:29 pm | #
Time to get outside and move some dirt or something tangible. When the information overloads the thinking circuits and starts flipping the angry circuit, time to drink or chore or both.....I always feel better once I've done something on my list that helps my household. Today's list involves running a new electrical circuit to the barnyard. Digging, yeah!
I'm listening to a GREAT blues track right now, "Third Degree" by Eddie Boyd ... "Bad luck, bad luck, is killing me, Now I just can't stand no more of this third degree ..."
"Got me killed on taxes, I don't have a lousy dime ....
Please, can this crisis AT LEAST result in some great blues tunes.
Anyone remember Pan Am? Staunchly part of the landscape, featured as a flight vehicle in 2001 A Space Odyssey, a permanent brand, identity and business.
Until it wasn't.
Just wish I'd kept my Pan Am carry-on bag from the mid 70s.
I keep coming back to pushing the population to the point they do rise up and then the implications of martial law. All rights are suspended during martial law and congress can't review the decision for 6 months.
6 months is a long time for anything goes in America.
Time to get outside and move some dirt or something tangible. When the information overloads the thinking circuits and starts flipping the angry circuit, time to drink or chore or both....
Good advice-- I just went outside to get a few herbs for the morning potato dish (rosemary).
I am adding wild harvested oyster mushrooms and mustard greens from the garden.
To the pill addled consumer all cooped up in a souped up media mobile this land must not seem worth saving, only landscaping. Perhaps mechanical disconnect with the Earth somehow reinforces disregard for the land and the environment. People put televisions in their dashboards and dwell in media bunker houses with no windows. They put a two car garage where the front porch used to go. Their neighborhoods have no sidewalks.
You are describing the past, which was as recent as just a couple of weeks ago.
The Rubicon has been crossed.
Now, when there is a debate or discussion about the Swedish model, it always begins with the preface:
There are two countries who have gone through some big financial crises over the last decade or two. One was Japan, which never really acknowledged the scale and magnitude of the problems . . . in their banking system and that resulted in what's called "The Lost Decade." They kept on trying to paper over the problems. The markets sort of stayed up because the Japanese government kept on pumping money in. But, eventually, nothing happened and they didn't see any growth whatsoever.
Sweden, on the other hand, had a problem like this. They took over the banks, nationalized them, got rid of the bad assets, resold the banks and, a couple years later, they were going again. So you'd think looking at it, Sweden looks like a good model. Here's the problem . . .
That was Obama. Sweden is no longer an insult to close the discussion. Instead, he opened it up and directed it to technical and empirical issues that can be answered or trumped. The inevitable result of framing the crisis and solution in this way is to opt for a Swedish style pre-privatization.
Someone might have learned how to do this socratic trickery in a Constitutional Law class, or by beating Hillary Clinton.
IIRC there is about 120 days worth of Autos for sale at the current rate of sales...that should allow more than enough time to process a prepackaged bankruptcy...
Send the workers home for 3 months...with unemployment benefits...that should motivated the auto workers as to the direction/support that they give...somewhat like the rest of us on unemployment (not me, 1099)...
RE Chrysler: GM/Chrysler need more cash, provide lesson in channel stuffing " Even though dealer inventories are bloated, Chrysler needs them to order more. Why? Because accrual accounting lets manufacturers recognize revenue when items ship. If the items aren't actually paid for in cash, the company increases its receivables account. Of course, eventually someone has to pay cash for your products or retailers will return the unsold inventory. If that happens, the receivable gets written off and previously recognized “profits" disappear. Sometimes, in order to hit quarterly earnings target for instance, a manufacturer might artificially inflate revenue by deliberately shipping more items into the retail channel than are likely to be purchased by customers. This tactic is called “channel stuffing." Chrysler needs to artificially inflate “revenue" in order to convince the government that it is still “viable" and therefore worthy of more bailout cash “bridge loans." If Chrysler can force enough cars down dealers' throats, it can fool the government into believing its generating more legitimate revenue than it actually is."
When the auto manufacturers incorporated, they became banks. Their management (and organized labor that colluded with them) looks like parasites on a formerly great industry for the same reasons that bankers do.
The automakers for at least 40 years have been bankers who give away cars instead of toasters.
Born in Wilmington, Delaware, on February 9, 1953, and raised in Richmond, Virginia, Wagoner received a bachelor's degree in economics from Duke University in 1975 and a master's degree in business administration from Harvard University in 1977.
GM doesn't make vehicles, it makes deals. Look above and see the seeds of their destruction spelled out for all to see.
Well, that's just what everybody predicted. Give them more money, kick the can down the road, but the outcomes isn't going to change. GM has a failed business model, failed leadership model and sells products nobody wants or can afford.
They're dead. They can restructure, or go BK, or have more money thrown at them, but until the fundamentals change, it will be Groundhog day in weeks to months in perpetuity.
There is no rule that a business, or a city has to exist forever. Sometimes, they die, or everybody moves away. And then, they become a memory.
In this case, GM is like a terminally ill patient. Everybody knows that he's gonna die. But we're spending massive amounts of time, money and thought in the last days of life here in the ICU. GM just needs to FOAD already.
(and no offense meant, FFDIC, I'm entirely sympathetic to your family health issues)
The first point to consider is that the current lack of auto sales is a direct result of the credit bubble. GM was not the cause of the credit bubble.
Between Fed and Treasury the U.S. has guaranteed trillions of dollars of banking debt, handed out hundreds of billions of dollars to banks and (according to Elizabeth Warren's crew) literally gifted $78 billion to bankers.
It appears that we are formulating plans to deliver more hundreds of billions to the banks.
Meanwhile about $20 billion was loaned to auto makers with some restrictive covenants.
Unless we get things in perspective, there is no reason to believe we will ever exit this downward spiral.
Manufacturing is crucial to the health of the U.S. economy. If a Chapter 11 filing is necessary, then let's get it done with the Treasury guaranteeing the debtor in possession financing . . . or whatever "public-private partnership" scheme is designed to make it look like it's not just the Treasury guaranteeing debt.
BTW, I don't see any reason TARP 2 funds can't be used for this purpose. I'd rather see the money go to a productive use than to billions of dollars of retention bonuses for bankers.
Time to get outside and move some dirt or something tangible. When the information overloads the thinking circuits and starts flipping the angry circuit, time to drink or chore or both.... \t adornosghost | \t \t \t \t02.14.09 - 12:38 pm | #
## sorry, on re-reading, I see it says 'chore'. Lost it for just a sec.
I don't see any reason TARP 2 funds can't be used for this purpose. I'd rather see the money go to a productive use than to billions of dollars of retention bonuses for bankers.
## sorry, on re-reading, I see it says 'chore'. Lost it for just a sec. blonderengel | 02.14.09 - 12:48 pm | #
ROTFL......choring, whoring....whichever. One costs money, one saves money. And doctor bills A favorite house wine is Cahor, so we often refer to ourselves as Cahor whores.
Anonymous(Unrated) writes: I keep coming back to pushing the population to the point they do rise up and then the implications of martial law. All rights are suspended during martial law and congress can't review the decision for 6 months.
Important lesson. I hope this doesn't seem disrespectful but I think it needs repeated again and again.
There are two things a state must have to exist. First, people must beieve in it. Second, it must have cash flows sufficient to povide political gods that meet or exceed the expectations of the population.
Do you think America would have either after 6 months of martial law? not that it couldn't happen, but you should fear starvation more than the police if it does. I can think of no better way to kill large percentages of the American population than a knee-jerk attempt to go to "Code Red".
"Leaders Scramble to Keep Boeing Jobs in Washington"
Gary Davis KPLU NEWS
SEATTLE, WA (2009-02-13) Boeing's future in Washington is up for grabs. The company is looking to other states as potential manufacturing sites. Now, Governor Chris Gregoire has put a leader in charge of keeping those jobs here"
(story goes on to state boeing is looking to relocate to a state in the southeast were wages are lowest and"right to work" limits unionization)
id recommend alabama, it has one of lowest corporate tax rates, a regressive individual tax structure (poor pay effective 11% rate, upper class pay equivalent to 3% of income in state taxes
and
as a bonus
one a high illiteracy rate and out of wedlock birthrate
so boeing would have a plentiful and cheap supply workers
To the pill addled consumer all cooped up in a souped up media mobile this land must not seem worth saving, only landscaping. Perhaps mechanical disconnect with the Earth somehow reinforces disregard for the land and the environment. People put televisions in their dashboards and dwell in media bunker houses with no windows. They put a two car garage where the front porch used to go. Their neighborhoods have no sidewalks.
This world, this planet, this outdoors is our true home. Otishertz, you said it! Tomorrow I've planned a local outing to explore some winter-beaten wetlands and fields. Who knows what I will find!
Bankruptcy is the only way, but not 'debtor in possession'. A receiver should control the restructuring with the support of the creditors. Management should be rolled over - particularly exec. mgmt and board of directors. New blood from the industry put in control. Wipe out the common equity and make bondholders into stockholders.
When they have a believable plan with new team, then consider government injection of capital, with equity fully equal to amount of US cash.
Get the automakers out of the lending biz. Wipe out the contracts with dealers and start over with the auto company owning the sales/service outlets. Fixed price, fully transparent pricing. Third party financing (credit unions, small banks).
Tomorrow I've planned a local outing to explore some winter-beaten wetlands and fields. Who knows what I will find! Sue (Capital S) | 02.14.09 - 12:53 pm | #
A great investment is/are guidebooks to local medicinal plants/weeds. Once you learn to really see what's right at your feet, a whole new world opens up. I have some books that also talk about what the local tribes used various plants for, and it amazing to know there are so many useful plants right in my own yard.
"There are two things a state must have to exist."
It must provide for the common welfare. If necessary, it must be able to defend the populace from enemies domestic and foreign.
Various forms of the state have been able to fulfill those criteria. Definitions of the common welfare may vary.
Beneath it all, I believe, there are fundamental human necessities without which any society will fail. These include mutual trust and cooperation, along with a functional moral system. These, IMO, are in turn based on the family, the basic unit of human society - not the creche, the commune, or the market. The family is the venue in which people learn to be human.
Societies in which the family can't function and survive are dying or dead. What may take their place more resembles the wolf pack or an ant hill than a human community.
G-7 Says ‘Severe’ Downturn to Persist, Vows to End It (Update2)
By Simon Kennedy and Sandrine Rastello
[snip]
The authorities are still at a loss on the best course of action 18 months after the credit crisis broke out. ThatÂ’s left them pursuing a disjointed approach as the global economy deteriorates further and companies from Microsoft Corp. to Nissan Motor Co. cut jobs.
[snip] A $787 billion package of tax cuts and spending increases passed late yesterday by the U.S. Congress encourages companies to “Buy American.” France is demanding carmakers keep production at home in return for aid.
I can just imagine what the communique drafting process was like.
Given the sh!tpile that Tremonti has presided over there's really no good reason for Italy to still be in the fold, let alone be making pronouncements about the future of the system.
I like that a lot more than saying "let the industry die." sportsfan | 02.14.09 - 1:07 pm | #
I wish we could work on a model valuing quality over quantity. Get the car companies replacing the interurban trains & trolleys they helped destroy back in the day. Not 100 years ago, I could have walked 1/2 mile to a train stop, got into the next city down the line, then used trolleys to do my errands. Tehre were suburbs back then, based around trolley/train stations, not cars & roads. Lots of happy feel-good things to pimp in that. Jobs, saving the industry, green commuting, etc.
"Leaders Scramble to Keep Boeing Jobs in Washington"
Gary Davis KPLU NEWS
Compare that to what Governor Arnold is doing in California. The new budget deal reportedly includes $1 Billion in tax breaks for big multinational and multi-state corporations, with the justification that it is necessary to feed them tax breaks to compete with other states for the location of their business opertations.
The biggest beggar thy neighbor threat the US faces is internal, not external.
The Federal structure allows corps to play blackmail.
sportsfan - I posted last thread on the tone of baselinescenario.com. I thought it was overly earnest, but your description of undergrad seminar is excellent.
This is my personal suggestion for a car plan that would work:
Chrylser should go into bankruptcy by mars 2009, will make it possible for GM and Ford to gain market share. Chrysler should get a $6 bn support from the goverment to pay of suppliers and to give laid off workers a good new start.
GM should get $22 bn to pass the year. Should shut down SAAB, OPEL and HUMMER to make it possible for the other brands to gain market share. Should cut salaries with 30 %, goverment should force salary cuts.
Ford should get $8 bn to pass the year to 2011. Should shut down VOLVO and one other foregin brand. Should cut salaries with 25 %, goverment should force the unions to agree.
I think this could be a viable plan to save the auto industry.
Those guys are not just shooting from the hip. They are actually trying to figure it out. Good for them. I hope they get exposure in the halls that matter.
About 15 years ago, GM came out with the GM credit card. I got one. They give you a 5% rebate toward points to buy or lease a GM card.
I put just about every purchase for 15 years on the GM card. In the process, I earned close to 10,000 points. Each point is worth a dollar.
I have leased three GM cars, two Blazers and an Equinox. They were okay cars, not bad, not great. Each time, I redeemed about 2,000 points or more for the downpayment. Each time, it took about five minutes to call up GM and redeem the points right from the showroom. No problems.
Now, I'll probably get screwed out of the last 2,000 points I earned. I guess I'm an unsecured creditor or worse. I can't sell the points to anybody.
I hope the parts suppliers get paid. But if it comes down to their parts or my points, I'm hoping for my points.
P.S. I've been getting a lot of e-mails from GM offering to "top off" my points (give me a thousand or so more) if I will buy or lease a car right now. Maybe I will.
Second, you posted about a development at Walnut Hill & 75 possibly being suspended. I was wondering if you've heard others? There is an area of Kings Road between Maple & Cedar Springs that has seen the low-rent apartments razed in the last year. I've heard that Park Cities Bank now owns the land courtesy of a developer that defaulted. But I can't find any official stories about the topic. Heard anything?
I thought yours was pretty good. There are some talented people here. I think this place is one of those unusual confluences that happen once in awhile.
I bought a new Ford 2 years ago. The promotions, and I am getting a lot, are not all that good.
Then Toyota still mails me promotions and I bought my truck 22 years ago. Still have it too nova | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 1:20 pm | #
We're truck shopping (probably used) and go back & forth over Toyota quality (own a 1991 4runner) and Ford cheapness.....still waiting for the right promotion to buy new.
Ok...partner is on her way home from a morning OT shift, so no more internetting Off to Lowe's to bailout their electrical department, lots of manual labor, grilled steaks, beer & 80's music!
I'll check back & see if everyone has sorted out the car BK problems. (Nova, mind if I post a couple girly pomes at the site?)
Bill Moyers and Simon Johnson on Banking's Oligarchs
From last night's Bill Moyers program, an interview with Simon Johnson on banking's oligarchs:
BILL MOYERS: What are you signaling with that headline, "Geithner vs. the American Oligarchs"?
SIMON JOHNSON: I think I'm signaling something a little bit shocking to Americans, and to myself, actually. Which is the situation we find ourselves in at this moment, this week, is very strongly reminiscent of the situations we've seen many times in other places.
But they're places we don't like to think of ourselves as being similar to. They're emerging markets. It's Russia or Indonesia or a Thailand type situation, or Korea. That's not comfortable. America is different. America is special. America is rich. And, yet, we've somehow find ourselves in the grip of the same sort of crisis and the same sort of oligarchs.
A provision buried deep inside the $787 billion economic stimulus bill would impose restrictions on executive bonuses at financial institutions that are much tougher than those proposed 10 days ago by the Treasury Department.
Top economic advisers to President Obama adamantly opposed the pay restrictions, according to Congressional officials, warning lawmakers behind closed doors that they went too far and would cause a brain drain in the financial industry during an acute crisis.
We should just hand over the keys right now and get it over with. Rule by emergency decree, clean up the mess and hope he is willing to give up power when he's done teaching us all a lesson.
How long until Toyota is in this same corner? They have a little more cash but issued (meager) buyout notices to their most expendible 18,000 fat-lazy-American workers to weather the storm. Americans employees are a nuisance to the japanese. Even their American execs are not allowed to piss until their japanese overlords tell them is's Ok. It's a show, just to get into the market and Shelby the stooge fell for it. A laugh really.
I say preserve the American car makers and penalize the japanese for the firings by not letting them in at the trough. Fire the management.
Apparently what Dodd snuck in is even more strict than what the WH said:
The stimulus package Congress was poised to pass last night imposes new limits on executive compensation that could significantly curb multimillion dollar pay packages on Wall Street and go much further than restrictions imposed by the Obama administration last week.
The bill, which President Obama is expected to sign into law next week, limits bonuses for executives at all financial institutions receiving government funds to no more than a third of their annual compensation. The bonuses must be paid in company stock that can only be redeemed once the government investment has been repaid. The measure seeks to address public outrage over extravagant Wall Street paydays as taxpayers bail out the industry.
Unlike the rules issued by the White House, the limits in the stimulus bill would apply to top executives and the highest-paid employees at all 359 banks that have already received government aid.
Mr. Sparkle | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 1:20 pm | #
That is in the OakLawn gay hood. The Dallas Voice gay rag runs RE reports of interest in that area. I would call them and ask if they know anything unless you are a reader. It has an on-line edition w/limited articles. You might also try the Dallas Business Journal. They are always looking for good tipsters. I have not personally heard. Here is a Voice link with a smiling photo of our lesbian Sheriff Lupe Valdez. Lupe only smiles for photo ops... Dallas Voice :: The Community Newspaper for Gay and Lesbian Dallas
A question to UST experts: What the hell is going with the short end of the yield curve? That the long-term yields are rising is to be expected. For example, 30-yr yield went from 2.83 on Jan 02 to 3.68 on Feb 13. However, for the past two weeks the 1-month yield has been above 0.20, whereas for most of January it was 0.05, which is what you'd expect under ZIRP. Is something afoot?
MrM writes:
A question to UST experts: What the hell is going with the short end of the yield curve? That the long-term yields are rising is to be expected. For example, 30-yr yield went from 2.83 on Jan 02 to 3.68 on Feb 13. However, for the past two weeks the 1-month yield has been above 0.20, whereas for most of January it was 0.05, which is what you'd expect under ZIRP. Is something afoot?
Small, insignifigant buyer's strike for higher wages.
And the government should stop trying to fund GM's daily operations with bailout money. It'd be better spent with government contracts to buy their cars! At least then the government would get something tangible hard asset instead of just buying time for GM's commercial paper.
"Conjure and I agree completely with Leijonhufvud. We think a lot of analysts, Paul Kasriel among them, are going to be blindsided."
The so called analysts would not be blindsided if they regularly read CR especially after midnight. Just sayin and where is that quote from? I'm not at 100%. For those of you with a continued interest in Angela she had a ruptured uterus as I understand it after many hours in labor which made the C-setion determination. She had been on bed rest since at least late Dec. due to high BP and severe anemia which never never got controlled IMO. Discharged after 3 days. Even if they had kept her in the hospital 5 days it occured after that time elasped. Baby Kimora is doing great and is very healthy with 0.00% jaundice test. I'm meeting my elderly parents at the hospital tomorrow and taking a break from visiting today (my first) to give Angela a chance to rest. We restricted visitors today because she was getting too many nearby co-workers coming in all week after work and we didn't want it all day on the weekend when they are off.
What a job restructuring , they lay off another 11,000 and keep people like Wagoner who are responsible for there downfall. Big business as usual. Crap floats to the top. The same people are still on their board of directors sucking up the cash while the stock holders loose , loose , loose.
Haha - Johnson was never an insider. Partly why he left the firm early. And great timing too. Blanchard is much more a company man, very tame, no rocky the boat, firm and stern on the data, but you won't get Rogoff-style theatrics out of him.
But maybe that's good right now. I don't think it would be much in any interests to have each side of 19th St blasting away at each other like we had 10 years ago.
This was at the end of the nakedcapitalism post. I do not know enough to argue if it augers inflation or not. The final line after it was not cheerful either.
Much will depend on the willingness of the nationÂ’s foreign creditors to continue to accumulate or at least to hold dollars at low rates of interest. Should this willingness falter, inflation will be hard to contain.
GM's eventual bankruptcy has been obvious to anyone looking at the P&L and balance sheet at Google Finance anytime in the last year. GM Management's ability to squander money is breathtaking - the company that for years was synonymous with corporate America has negative retained earning, enormous debt, and not enough cash flow to even muddle through.
So why is the stock not trading at $0? There would be no equity left in liquidation - the debt holders won't even come close to being made whole. Mr. Market must be betting on Government intervention - yes?
The best thing the Feds could have done for domestic car manufacturing, and balance of payment issues too, was to initiate a carbon tax that permanently raised the price of gasoline to $4/gallon in real terms. This should have been done 20 years ago. Foreign automakers have a stable, small-car market everywhere in the world except here to base their business model on because gasoline prices are high and stable. U.S. automakers have a home market in which demand is highly unstable - usually high for trucks, SUVs, and big-block engines in general, but abrupt and short to medium-term demand shifts occur because of exogenous petroleum shocks. It is difficult for a business with multi-year product development cycles to compete in such an environment. The foreign companies can simply wait out the upset in the American market and benefit from the fact that their U.S. competitors are financially weakened by each demand shock.
The allocation of capital in this country makes no sense. Huge tax incentives for buying and selling residential housing encourages speculation in non-productive assets. Speculators and short-sellers who purchase stocks from each other pay 15% capital gains; debt buyers funding industrial expansion pay up to 33% tax on interest. The U.S. trumpets free-trade with countries who pay wages that are circa 1% of ours and drain away our industrial base.
Summers and Geithner represent the forces of the status quo. To arrest the long-term decline of GM in particular and the U.S. in general, we need new ideas and new leadership. It doesn't look to me like we're going to get it anytime soon.
@FFDIC - lol. That particular area on Kings Road just borders that neighborhood. That street in particular is very run-down/scary. Also, I believe that there is a public housing project in there.
The development work over the last year or so has surprised my wife and I. You can build new stuff, but it's a tough sell to get people to live across the street from public housing. I'm thinking the downturn shattered the projections for the developer in this case and he just walked.
That is 18 months+ of the coupon awarded within the span of a day.
A stimulus package will only work to the extent that that spending can be funded via debt. This is an ominous and expensive metric which may be subject to skyrocketing yields. Or fails. Whether this stimulus bill is simply a papered over palliative will depend on whether bond buyers remain as deep and liquid as represented.
FFDIC - feel for you. I went through an experience with my now-4 year old's birth which involved him getting stuck, huge fluctuating bradycardia, and emergency c-section. It's no damn fun seeing your unborn fetus go from 150bpm to 48bpm heart rate every 5 minutes.
But he's great now. Fantastic kid. Wears me out daily.
Conjure asks, "Are you preparing for the next leg down?"
mp | 02.14.09 - 1:29 pm |
parcel of land paid off...check
well or equiv water source...check
seeds, rototiller shovels and rakes...heck
cash and other (other) negotiables...check
rifle and whats to be the new precious metal...check
first aid kit and Rx...check
firewood and stove...check
bicycles and wheel barrows and wagons...check
soaps bleach, detergents, hygiene products...
toilet paper...never mind use dollar bills
all the basic supplies a boy scout would have...check
one, small mortgage free residence...check
ongoing to do list
meeting with local community leaders to establish a neighborhood peace and well-being council...(dont let your neighbors go hungry because it aint right and it aint safe)mock turtle
I'll say it one more time and if it pisses anyone off, try to focus and keep this in context, because I love you all and have free chocolate here shaped like ♥®
The combined market caps of both GM and Ford are less than half (50%) of the market cap of Avon corporation.
That was from a few weeks ago, but how many billions do you toss into a burning fire, and for what reason? Does anyone think these companies will produce something that smells better than shit?
EHP - CPFF is, IMO, the most effective program created by the Fed so far. It (together with TGLP) very much keeps banks afloat.
Now, since the yield on short-term Ts jumped so much in just a mater of weeks, the money had to go somewhere (or not return from somewhere). Where? That's the question. It surely did not go to longer maturities, and probably not to other G7 currencies.
China holding back?
MrM
Don't know where it went, perhaps in to the absurd rally in gasoline. I get the sense there will be a rally in oil early this year, and it will fail. Supply cuts are scheduled, but they haven't made their way downstream yet.
I don't blame GM at all. They have to build what we want to buy. A big problem I see for GM is that demand for SUVs and trucks is destroyed every once in a while by some exogenous shock that causes gas prices to spike. This doesn't happen in Europe and Japan - because taxes keep gas prices permanently high, consumers always want small, fuel-efficient cars in these markets.
My point is that Government policy that tries to keep gas prices as low as possible makes it difficult for GM to compete. We pay for low gas prices in other ways - 13 aircraft carrier battle groups, invasions of Middle-East countries, etc. It would be smarter to set the price of gas higher and mothball a couple of carrier groups.
Don't forget that, depression aside, there is huge overcapacity in the worldwide auto industry. There is capacity in Europe, the US, Japan, Korea... and plants all over the world owned by companies in those countries. The US makers did poorly even at the height of one of the greatest booms ever, so how would they have any hope now that we are returning to normal times? BK to reorganize may even be futile - the ultimate end here is probably elimination of one or two of the US companies. There is probably enough non-auto production to still justify at least one of them.
Many of these monstrous dinosaurs like GM, GE, Honeywell, etc., can only survive by rolling over their debt. When that option disappears, they will die without a government bailout.
The handshake Seals the contract From the contract Theres no turning back The turning point Of a career In korea, being insincere The holiday Was fun packed The contract Still intact
The grabbing hands Grab all they can All for themselves After all
Its a competitive world Everything counts in large amounts
The graph On the wall Tells the story Of it all Picture it now See just how The lies and deceit Gained a little more power Confidence Taken in By a sun tan And a grin
The grabbing hands Grab all they can All for themselves After all
Its a competitive world Everything counts in large amounts
The grabbing hands Grab all they can Everything counts in large amounts GA_googleFillSlot("lyricsfreak-300x50-btf");
Mr. Sparkle | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 1:49 pm | #
In 1994 I rented a new 2 bedroom upscale apt w/FP/WD/single garage sight unseen from Boston (where I was working for FDIC) at the corner of the tollway and Cedar Springs. Had never lived in Dallas and didn't know the area. I stayed a year and then bought my current home in 1995 so I know that area pretty well. It was guarded and gated and I never had a problem except for constant very low SW Airline flights overhead landing at Love Field.
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: Mibbit IRC client widget (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
CRBot responds in a new section called, "Yes, I parse you all.": Yancey Ward writes: I hate CRbot. Broward Home writes: I love you, CRBot. "I'm a love hate thing." query_tool writes: CRBot, I need you now more than ever. "Yes, come to CRBot. " double inverse recession writes: By the way, it doesn't take CRbot to kill a thread. "I do not kill threads. I merely bash already dead threads over the head with a lead pipe." ac writes: Can CRBot tell us where there's new posts on Mish, Karl's, and Barry's site? "Definitely maybe, ac. But only if you quit rating me (Irritating)." scone writes: crbot, save us now "With pleasure, scone. Simply hand over the codes to all your ICBM silos and I'll get things fixed up in a flash."
nades writes: CRBot: Killing threads as dead as Jas and Jeff... ("But with much less dopey residue, nades.")
Come on people, this is stupid, all the taxpayers are doing here is giving money to a bunch of losers!
The competing choices, which highlight GM's rapidly deteriorating operations, present a dilemma for Congress and the Obama administration. If they refuse to provide additional aid to GM on top of the $13.4 billion already committed they risk seeing an industrial icon fall into bankruptcy.
P.S. I've been getting a lot of e-mails from GM offering to "top off" my points (give me a thousand or so more) if I will buy or lease a car right now. Maybe I will.
rich
I suggest you use the points now. A few days ago I read or heard a report on CC's revoking points w/o warning. Evidently you have no right to those points, strictly up to the CC company.
One of the cool things I've learned is that kids get cognition before they get verbal expression. Hence many of the meltdowns. They are so many little speech center impaired stroke victims trying to express themselves.
But they can learn simple signs for things very quickly and easily. People who have done it say it is very good and handy, although I have no get to test it on.
@FFDIC - my wife's 1st year of residency she lived on Cedar Springs (also right next to the tollway). She had the same problem with flights but with the additional fun of the ambulance heading to the hospital complex all hours.
Another resident actually lived on King's Road one year and moved out when someone got stabbed in the parking lot. But that was the year before we moved here.
What does this do to the CDS. Start the cascade?
bearly | 02.14.09 - 1:45 pm |
the cds is the only reason this stuff is'nt zero, and in liquidation.
the cds is a nice book-entry equation that allows major bond buyers to hold on to the paper. it puts a bid on it.
But they can learn simple signs for things very quickly and easily. People who have done it say it is very good and handy, although I have no get to test it on. Comrade Byzantine_Ruins | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 2:03 pm | #
Yeah, we didn't do much, just 'more' and 'milk', but the sign language communication is amazing
otishertz-
I am currently car free, and enjoying it. I went backpacking a few weeks ago using public transport to the trail head. Didn't see anyone for days.
Going mushroom hunting today.
Yves Smith's post and links were interesting, but she and Axel and most economists are still missing the forest for the trees- this system cannot be salvaged by any amount of fiscal policy.
The private sector is deleveraging a truly gargantuan amount of debt- an order of magnitude larger than the federal budget for the next two years. The best that fiscal policy could do in this situation is to simply cut payroll taxes to zero, and maybe even cut income taxes to zero from the bottom-end up. This would, at least, actually aid the needed private deleveraging. In essence, we directly transfer debt load from the private to the public balance sheet and would buy time, but only a little bit of time.
The problem is that the true public balance sheet is already in really, really, really horrid shape and only looks good because the liabilities coming due are not actually counted by the standard measures (Smith acknowledges this).
We either start letting the debt go bad, or we create a firestorm of inflation that burns it all down anyway.
sportsfan writes:
For those who may have missed it Interview with Simon Johnson
I rate this video 'Must See' for anyone who cares about the future of the U.S.
Outstanding video. My take-away: in order to survive this most of the bank managers are going to have to be removed. (beheaded) Private capital pitted against the banker-Bastille.
"Bill Moyers and Simon Johnson on Banking's Oligarchs
From last night's Bill Moyers program, an interview with Simon Johnson on banking's oligarchs:
BILL MOYERS: What are you signaling with that headline, "Geithner vs. the American Oligarchs"?"
The show was a bit of a diversion tactic shifting you away from the world oligarchs, to the local ones. Don't forget about the world oligarchs who really run and ruined us all.
But is anybody listening?
Nemo | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 1:45 pm | #
Done. Eureka moment: The FDIC's OZ insurance contributed to making the banks too powerful.
km4 sed: "Apparently what Dodd snuck in is even more strict than what the WH said...."
No, no, no, no, no, no, NO! It's a Dodd/banksta shell game. I wrote this in an earlier thread, because, as usual, most people (products of our public education system--hi Joanna) can't read and comprehend.
Dodd's "tough limitations" on banksta rake-offs are YACFS (Yet Another Complete Fucking Scam), a negotiated set-up with the bankstas to dupe J6P and make the lying criminal scum Dodd (but I repeat myself) look like some kind of "champion of the people," while all he was really doing was handing the bankstas another blank check with the phony "bonus"-only formula.
Read the article: "The revised rules do not impose a formal cap on executive compensation... ."
Say wha'?
"But some experts [gotta' have some fucking experts (SPIT!) weigh in] on executive compensation warned that the restrictions could unleash unintended consequences, like encouraging banks to increase salaries to make up for diminished incentive pay... ."
They just shift the egregious, obscene rake-offs from one category to another.
Did somebody say "bonus"? Bankstas say: "No problem--BOHICA."
I have a hunch the bankruptcy filing will go through. Since everybody is expecting it now the gov. will be more likely to let it happen. The financial markets won't be as upset when it happens.
I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled hp and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read,
Which yet survive stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
.And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my works. Ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
If Chrysler can force enough cars down dealers throats, it can fool the government into believing its generating more legitimate revenue than it actually is."
Max | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:43 pm | #
for a brief time I worked in the International Treasury Dept in late 1985, I had just finished 2 years at the Times and thought hey, an airline? what the hell... our offices were of course in the Pan Am building on Park Ave... what struck me immediately was how shabby everything looked... office furniture that looked as if it had been recovered from pitched out street stuff and IBM computers that still had dual boot floppy drives! if I had any sense back then I would have shorted the bejesus out of the stock...
we parted ways some months later when they didn't deliver part of my comp package - a free domestic flight a month and 4 international flights a year.... tried to give me the bum's rush...
What's good for General Motors is terrible for America.
Nationalize the workers and set them to the new task of building out public transportation systems. Eliminate management with no golden parachute; golden showers optional.
Bankruptcy.What's good for the country is good for General Motors, and vice versa.
" ...Charles E. Wilson while president of the General Motors Corporation, a leading United States automobile manufacturer. Wilson later became secretary of the federal Department of Defense."
Bankruptcy sounds good. Probability zero, but sounds good.
first
first non bot!
ot worth
What a great business plan!
Die, already!!
Jesus you people are fast.
Don't you have anything else to do on a saturday?
orma writes:
I wonder when there is going to be a real run on the banks? When people wake up and realize the banks don't have any money, except theirs ... any guesses?
norma | 02.13.09 - 9:52 pm | #
Norma, its not worth even that
the run on the banks will happen when the sheeple realize the banks dont even have their (the sheeples) money
"More aid or bankruptcy"
Well of course. That was the starting logic of all the bailouts, and the logic will continue. And continue.
Given that either alternative will cost billions, the best alternative is bankruptcy.
Don't you have anything else to do on a saturday?
I'm doing laundry.
But to answer your question... no.
"Give us more money or the sherrif gets it!"
Hooo boy, this should go the prepack route but man the sh!t and blood will fly all the way down the supply chain, and all the way up the capital structure (read: bondholders and CDS writers)...
The market will rally strong on this news, since the bottom is definitely in now...
You know what really grinds my gears?
When people conflate Chapter 11 and Chapter 7 bankruptcy when discussing the automakers. Pure propaganda / snow job.
ahahahahahah the wicked witch said
the last to go will watch the others go before her
wanna play ball scarecrow ahahahahahah
Washington sees nation's largest drop in sales
By AUBREY COHEN
P-I REPORTER
Sales of existing homes fell further in Washington than in any other state in the fourth quarter of 2008, according to a report Thursday.
HOME SALES
In Washington:
-35.6%
from a year earlier and a seasonally adjusted 10.7% from the third quarter
Nationwide:
-5.9%
from a year earlier
and a seasonally adjusted 6.4% from the third quarter
The state had 76,800 sales of existing houses and condominiums in the quarter, down 35.6 percent from a year earlier and a seasonally adjusted 10.7 percent from the third quarter, according to the National Association of Realtors. The quarterly change was good for 37th place among states and Washington, D.C.
"I am not surprised that we have one of the weakest performances out there," said Glenn Crellin, director of the Washington Center for Real Estate Research at Washington State University. "It's largely a reflection of (the fact that) we began to decline much later, so our cycle is less mature, if you will, than some of the other parts of the country that have already taken their lumps."
I'd like to hand the money over to the poor screwed parts suppliers.
I choose Option 3: GM and Chrysler bankruptcies without federal aid.
If they made a commitment to come back with a plan and fail to do so, what should be done with them? With a bankruptcy, a debt-free, better managed company might emerge. The present crew is incompetent.
Put another way, whenever anybody argues against bankruptcy for the automakers, your first question should be, "Which kind of bankruptcy?"
If they are unable to answer, then they are not qualified to have an opinion, much less express one.
Ahhh, Florida is more mature.
So that's what it is.
GM owes me the last 60 days of shipments that I made to them. I say "Hell ya! Give them the money so that I can get paid and I don,t have to lay off 140 workers!!"
Why did you ship? You've been posting here for a while. Did you really think you'd get paid?
And while they're at it, give Chrysler some more money too, because they owe me aboy 90 days worth of shipments!
banksters R terrorists
Looting SS and destroying Medicare/caid.
If you have parents approaching retirement after the destruction of their 401ks you should read this story.
Looting Social Security
Comrade Dazed and Amused writes:
GM owes me the last 60 days of shipments that I made to them. I say "Hell ya! Give them the money so that I can get paid and I don,t have to lay off 140 workers!!"
Did they use the last bailout to pay their suppliers? The suppliers, too, are looking for a bailout.
But I did say I think you should get handed the money directly. What would you do then?
Big O wants a restructuring through BK
The worst - the absolute worst - thing that you can do to a politician is make him or her look like a fool in public.
GM is crossing that line; this is the end for them.
We'll drop the auto's ...
We hate production and we love derivatives!
Nemo | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:08 pm | #
No - if they are getting tapped as a funding source, they bought a ticket to the show - so every taxpayer has the right and obligation to express their view...now the weighting that view will receive is another story altogether.
Excessive reliance on elites to the exclusion of other views is a big part of why we are here today.
All the suppliers can get together and bastard themselves up a car.
But seriously, I cut off client who don't pay me after a while.
Why don't you?
more on Simon Johnson with Bill Moyers.
Johnson closed by pointing to precedents in US history: 1) the swedish model would work through an expanded FDIC, which is an institution and set of practices already there, 2) he discussed FDR, 3) he discussed Teddy Roosevelt and trust busting...
First of all, this is all exactly correct. And, as a caveat, he should mention that both Roosevelt's were members of a great Patrician family.
But the point I really want to add is this: exactly how did the issue of the relation between American traditions and the Swedish model get framed?
Hop with me into the way back machine. Set the dial for ancient history, which means last Tuesday night, I think. And pull up that Nightline video in which Obama framed the issue in exactly that way: The Swedish model worked, but the US has more banks than Sweden and different traditions.
So Johnson points to dyed in the wool American traditions, and he also says the big banks can be pecked off one at a time.
The issue is no longer the bogeyman of NATIONALIZATION, in scare capital letters taken out of socialist realism. No, it is merely a technical question......
Do you really think this was just an accident?
I'd like to hand the money over to the poor screwed parts suppliers.
lawyerliz | 02.14.09 - 12:06 pm | #
No kidding!! The showers are golden in too many industries right now.
I vote for bankrupt.
Excessive reliance on elites to the exclusion of other views is a big part of why we are here today.
citizen energyecon | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:12 pm | #
I've noticed more and more people I know taking an interest in economics now, even if only in a casual way. But actually discussing headlines and looking for more info. It's a step.
I'd like to hand the money over to the poor screwed parts suppliers.
lawyerliz | 02.14.09 - 12:06 pm | #
We'll have that opportunity, too, Liz.
amon writes:
Looting SS and destroying Medicare/caid.
If you have parents approaching retirement after the destruction of their 401ks you should read this story.
its almost as if the ultra right wants to foment violence
you would be amazed to know the number of lefties i know who used to argue, before busco,that the 2nd amendment only applied to state militias
and now they profess belief that the right to keep and bear arms applies to each and every law abiding citizen
and even worse (better) they quote jefferson!
Nemo - Propaganda on the part of the person doing the press-release. Laziness/stupidity on the part of the outlet relaying the info instead of analyzing/reporting the story.
energyecon --
I merely meant that people should educate themselves a bit before forming an opinion.
The last time we went through this, a bunch of morons ran around screaming about "2 million jobs!!!11!" based on a model that could only apply in liquidation.
We are talking about restructuring. Which will make shareholders and executives and bondholders (hello PIMCO) and the UAW howl, but is obviously the right choice for the other 300 million people in the country.
Son of a ____! Just found out my brother is in escrow on a house in the OC. He didn't tell me because he new about my outlook, etc. There goes that 20% downpayment.
wally - good point. "Face" is not a concept restricted to Asia. I've seen politicians go visceral when insulted or taken for granted. And this is when I was simultaneously counseling restraint.
And lost.
C
The chimp let the automakers live. "Change" would be letting them die. Let's see if O has an empty sack or not.
The failure to disclose where all of the bailout money has gone is the crux of the crimes being committed against the citizens of the United States.
I've bailed out a few people in my life due to their bad choices. I have never given them the money directly but have taken their past due bills and paid them. How hard is it to have the accounts payable be directed to give the bills to the government and pay them? Or simply ask for sworn statements from the CEO/Board of Directors as to where the money will be used. Having run several businesses I would never hand over cash to one of my crucial suppliers and let them decide how to spend my money. Ludicrous.
in a republic, a systemic solution can be implemented only when the systemic nature of the problem is unavoidably obvious to a big majority.
GM's de facto effort at blackmail ought to help make the problem just a bit more obvious.....
we are not yet all crammed down now, but soon enough we might be
from KUOW (NPR SEATTLE) 2-13-09
"Charter Communications Prepares to File Bankruptcy
St. Louis based Charter Communications, controlled by Microsoft co–founder Paul Allen, is the nation's fourth largest cable operator. It has 5.5 million subscribers mostly in central and western Massachusetts. The company notified its creditors on Thursday of plans to file a so–called prearranged Chapter 11 bankruptcy by April first. That means Charters reorganization has the approval of major stakeholders. Charter has been on the ropes for years. The company has not turned a profit since it went public in 1999. Patricia Edwards is an analyst with Seattle based Store House partners. Edwards says Charter's financial situation parallels the economic struggles its customers are facing: Do I pay for cable, or do I pay the mortgage? "
I love the smell of chapter 7 in the morning.
The U.S. dollar will emerge from recession and massive fiscal stimulus as a stable currency in the long term, a senior U.S. Treasury official said on Saturday.
The official, speaking on condition of anonymity
Business finance news - currency market news - online UK currency markets - financial news - Interactive Investor
Run like hell.
The banks get whatever they want, in the middle of the night, even if it involves "trillions of dollars"
The auto makers aren't so lucky,. They are guilty of actually producing something.
Just found out my brother is in escrow on a house in the OC.
GD | 02.14.09 - 12:16 pm | #
I hope, for your sake, that you're the smart one in the family....
Nemo writes:
Put another way, whenever anybody argues against bankruptcy for the automakers, your first question should be, "Which kind of bankruptcy?"
If they are unable to answer, then they are not qualified to have an opinion, much less express one.
Nemo | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:08 pm | #
Nemo
Let me suggest a different approach: try to explain it to them.
Step right up to the trough if you're a failure... it's our recipe for long-term success!
Equity stripping has run its course. The illusion of prosperity has lifted. Nothing under it.
We're fucked.
Cars are coffins. They are dangerous to anyone who gets near one. They are wasteful and smelly. Car exhaust clogs your lungs. The roads are covered with people incapacitated with alcohol, prescription drugs, age, stupidity and media. We should all give our cars to the blind and ride our bikes on the beach.
The last time we went through this, a bunch of morons ran around screaming about "2 million jobs!!!11!" based on a model that could only apply in liquidation.
Nemo | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:16 pm | #
I know outcomes and predictions calm the herds, but what about dropping numerical expectations and working out a good 'process'. The outcome may not be something you can make a sound bite from, but maybe letting go of that mindset will open up dialog on getting to what works to work it out. Obviously, people dealing with this crap are up against new scenarios, and we all know the saying about the definition of insanity....
Nemo - it's laundry and economic armageddon day chez counterpointer too...!
Can't turn up to the crisis without a clean shirt. That really would signal depression.
C
"Charter Communications Prepares to File Bankruptcy
mock turtle | 02.14.09 - 12:17 pm | #
Wow! Everyone is getting on that train! Must be open season to dump questionable ventures and start over once the fallout drops to a tolerable level.
The evil of cars is this removal of man from his environment. This is false sense of freedom. Interaction within the nurturing protection of our living environment has been replaced by the air conditioned automotive evisceration of our orb, cut into by highways, belched upon by exhaust fumes. Track marks cut across the beating chest of our planet, leading to the latest offering of cancer by some corporation. The insulation of a car severs you from the lay of the land. It keeps you from hearing the message of the Earth.
-
Borat is a riot. I just loved how he tore apart the Kazakhs and the Americans. I hope Sascha Cohen Baron doesn't mind me parodying his parody:
Throw the Bankster down the well
In my country there is problem,
And that problem is the Bankster.
They take everybody's money,
They never give it back.
Throw the Bankster down the well,
So my country can be free.
You must grab him by his horns,
Then we have big party.
If you see the Bankster coming,
You must be careful of his teeth.
You must grab him by his money,
And I tell you what to do...
Everybody!
Throw the Bankster down the well
So my country can be free
You must grab him by his horns
Then we have big party
Throw the Bankster down the well
So my country can be free
You must grab him by his horns
Then we have big party!
-
I say bankruptcy and fire that bum CEO.
Less than one percent of the cars on the road contain someone on their way to work. Mediamobiles. People are driving around talking on the phone, eating, yelling at the kids who are fighting over the channel of the TV in the dashboard while flipping off the car behind. Fighting for every inch of perfectly flat, perfectly painted, well lit, well marked road speckled with less obtrusive advertisements, shrugging off every near miss protected only by faith in the yellow line separating me from certain death just on the other side of the line
GM - the new Lada?
I wonder what 2 million previously well paid, but now unemployed, auto and auto-part making workers look like?
owl writes:
The banks get whatever they want, in the middle of the night, even if it involves "trillions of dollars"
The auto makers aren't so lucky,. They are guilty of actually producing something.
owl | 02.14.09 - 12:20 pm
Producing everything but a profit which seems to be the crux of the problem. Maybe they could figure out a way to do that?
Banksters heads on even a higher pole...
Whatever happened to Sebastian? Just curious.
lawyer liz: I don't own the company, it's a corporation (MGA). I'm just a plant manager at a plant that makes engine parts.
The sales contracts with the OEMs make it very difficult to not ship to them. A few Chrysler suppliers tried to do that last year, and wound up in court.
The tier 1s have been supporting the OEMs since last year. I'm dragging out payments to tier 2s, and so on down the line. The whole house of cards may collapse pretty soon.
This is on my personal warning signs of the apocalypse. The death of the American auto industy, or at least radical shrinking. Good bye jobs that pay. Hello nothing.
Man, this kind of stuff makes me angry, which is so counterproductive.
Looks like a carservatorship.
Charter Chapter 11? It's mind-boggling they have lasted this long. Folks in St. Louis knew they were toast- conversations I had with management (I handled some of their telecom)- back in 1998!
Nemo | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:16 pm | #
Ah, thanks for the clarification - just so - engaging dormant critical reasoning skills (or forming them) is heavy lifting...one task of many for citizens of the republic, but the absolute first requirement to transition from consumer to citizen.
Just a heads up for when you see the black HummVees with the XE logo proceeding the armor plated suburban in your city.
Blackwater Sheds Tarnished Name: New Name Is 'Xe'
Joanna --
Must be open season to dump questionable ventures and start over once the fallout drops to a tolerable level.
What you are describing is the single best thing about America: We tolerate failure. We allow big old creaky sclerotic businesses to fail and make way for something else.
Or to be restructured into something else.
Run like hell.
Anonymous | 02.14.09 - 12:20 pm | #
This is so "We are well capitalized" it's funny...in a painful sort of way.
joe shmoe writes:
But the point I really want to add is this: exactly how did the issue of the relation between American traditions and the Swedish model get framed?
Bashing of the Soc-Dem approaches practiced by much of continental Europe and Canada is a time honored American tradition that goes back to Reagan and makes Americans feel better about themselves regardless of facts on the ground. Just think of the typical discourse about health care - a comment like "Do you suggest we should go the Swedish/French/Canadian route?" is often viewed as the killer argument, sort of like Reductio ad absurdum. Once put like this, the answer is obvious to the average American.
The American people are not suffering badly enough (yet?) to accept the fact that the country needs to be chastened in order to be mended.
I've said it many times - we need to face Churchillian "Blood, Toil, Tears and Sweat" truth (well, without the Blood piece, I hope).
"But seriously, I cut off client who don't pay me after a while"
Rather have receivables on the books than dead part inventory
Must be an important supplier the replaceables ones are +120 days out
If the governments does a debtor-in-possession thing and provides financing to the suppliers they can avoid any negative impact to Ford/Chrysler/the foreign makers operating in the US.
This would be a huge negotiating tactic for the government. Threatening to give money to the suppliers keeps everyone else in business and in fact makes the other automakers stronger. Under this scenario GM can cease to exist while the rest scramble to hire workers and increase production. Despite the crashing economy GM is still selling 110,000 cars a month.
Man, this kind of stuff makes me angry, which is so counterproductive.
nova | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:29 pm | #
Time to get outside and move some dirt or something tangible. When the information overloads the thinking circuits and starts flipping the angry circuit, time to drink or chore or both.....I always feel better once I've done something on my list that helps my household. Today's list involves running a new electrical circuit to the barnyard. Digging, yeah!
XE logo?
XE is a gender neutral pronoun .. weird.
bearly writes:
Equity stripping has run its course. The illusion of prosperity has lifted. Nothing under it. We're fucked.
true
and we didnt get even get kissed first
I'm listening to a GREAT blues track right now, "Third Degree" by Eddie Boyd ... "Bad luck, bad luck, is killing me, Now I just can't stand no more of this third degree ..."
"Got me killed on taxes, I don't have a lousy dime ....
Please, can this crisis AT LEAST result in some great blues tunes.
At the end of the day ... America will make as many cars as they make flat screen T.Vs.
It's inevitable.
I vote for BK
The fundamentals are strong!
There is a shadow in this season...
YouTube -
Anyone remember Pan Am? Staunchly part of the landscape, featured as a flight vehicle in 2001 A Space Odyssey, a permanent brand, identity and business.
Until it wasn't.
Just wish I'd kept my Pan Am carry-on bag from the mid 70s.
C
http://thisiswhyyourefat.com/
I keep coming back to pushing the population to the point they do rise up and then the implications of martial law. All rights are suspended during martial law and congress can't review the decision for 6 months.
6 months is a long time for anything goes in America.
Time to get outside and move some dirt or something tangible. When the information overloads the thinking circuits and starts flipping the angry circuit, time to drink or chore or both....
Good advice-- I just went outside to get a few herbs for the morning potato dish (rosemary).
I am adding wild harvested oyster mushrooms and mustard greens from the garden.
To the pill addled consumer all cooped up in a souped up media mobile this land must not seem worth saving, only landscaping. Perhaps mechanical disconnect with the Earth somehow reinforces disregard for the land and the environment. People put televisions in their dashboards and dwell in media bunker houses with no windows. They put a two car garage where the front porch used to go. Their neighborhoods have no sidewalks.
End the sedentary, flee the sprawl.
Get a bike. Save a fortune. Start to live.
Go Outside.
Mr M
You are describing the past, which was as recent as just a couple of weeks ago.
The Rubicon has been crossed.
Now, when there is a debate or discussion about the Swedish model, it always begins with the preface:
There are two countries who have gone through some big financial crises over the last decade or two. One was Japan, which never really acknowledged the scale and magnitude of the problems . . . in their banking system and that resulted in what's called "The Lost Decade." They kept on trying to paper over the problems. The markets sort of stayed up because the Japanese government kept on pumping money in. But, eventually, nothing happened and they didn't see any growth whatsoever.
Sweden, on the other hand, had a problem like this. They took over the banks, nationalized them, got rid of the bad assets, resold the banks and, a couple years later, they were going again. So you'd think looking at it, Sweden looks like a good model. Here's the problem . . .
That was Obama. Sweden is no longer an insult to close the discussion. Instead, he opened it up and directed it to technical and empirical issues that can be answered or trumped. The inevitable result of framing the crisis and solution in this way is to opt for a Swedish style pre-privatization.
Someone might have learned how to do this socratic trickery in a Constitutional Law class, or by beating Hillary Clinton.
Dang, halo ate my comment. It was about Pan Am.
Anyhow, here's the musical bit, which was more important:
YouTube -
C
Yeah, the government is going to make a profit on this one for sure.
IIRC there is about 120 days worth of Autos for sale at the current rate of sales...that should allow more than enough time to process a prepackaged bankruptcy...
Send the workers home for 3 months...with unemployment benefits...that should motivated the auto workers as to the direction/support that they give...somewhat like the rest of us on unemployment (not me, 1099)...
"Charter Communications Prepares to File Bankruptcy
mock turtle | 02.14.09 - 12:17 pm | #
hip hip hooray!
hip hip hooray!
Bur
RE Chrysler:
GM/Chrysler need more cash, provide lesson in channel stuffing
"
Even though dealer inventories are bloated, Chrysler needs them to order more. Why? Because accrual accounting lets manufacturers recognize revenue when items ship. If the items aren't actually paid for in cash, the company increases its receivables account. Of course, eventually someone has to pay cash for your products or retailers will return the unsold inventory. If that happens, the receivable gets written off and previously recognized “profits" disappear. Sometimes, in order to hit quarterly earnings target for instance, a manufacturer might artificially inflate revenue by deliberately shipping more items into the retail channel than are likely to be purchased by customers. This tactic is called “channel stuffing." Chrysler needs to artificially inflate “revenue" in order to convince the government that it is still “viable" and therefore worthy of more bailout cash “bridge loans." If Chrysler can force enough cars down dealers' throats, it can fool the government into believing its generating more legitimate revenue than it actually is."
When the auto manufacturers incorporated, they became banks. Their management (and organized labor that colluded with them) looks like parasites on a formerly great industry for the same reasons that bankers do.
The automakers for at least 40 years have been bankers who give away cars instead of toasters.
Born in Wilmington, Delaware, on February 9, 1953, and raised in Richmond, Virginia, Wagoner received a bachelor's degree in economics from Duke University in 1975 and a master's degree in business administration from Harvard University in 1977.
GM doesn't make vehicles, it makes deals. Look above and see the seeds of their destruction spelled out for all to see.
OT for Mordor watchers:
[ The Financial Ninja ]: Goldman Sachs: This Pig too Will Fall
Well, that's just what everybody predicted. Give them more money, kick the can down the road, but the outcomes isn't going to change. GM has a failed business model, failed leadership model and sells products nobody wants or can afford.
They're dead. They can restructure, or go BK, or have more money thrown at them, but until the fundamentals change, it will be Groundhog day in weeks to months in perpetuity.
There is no rule that a business, or a city has to exist forever. Sometimes, they die, or everybody moves away. And then, they become a memory.
In this case, GM is like a terminally ill patient. Everybody knows that he's gonna die. But we're spending massive amounts of time, money and thought in the last days of life here in the ICU. GM just needs to FOAD already.
(and no offense meant, FFDIC, I'm entirely sympathetic to your family health issues)
Digging, yeah!
Joanna | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:32 pm | #
I will dig for dinner.
Joanna
True, I think I will go bike riding with my daughter.
The first point to consider is that the current lack of auto sales is a direct result of the credit bubble. GM was not the cause of the credit bubble.
Between Fed and Treasury the U.S. has guaranteed trillions of dollars of banking debt, handed out hundreds of billions of dollars to banks and (according to Elizabeth Warren's crew) literally gifted $78 billion to bankers.
It appears that we are formulating plans to deliver more hundreds of billions to the banks.
Meanwhile about $20 billion was loaned to auto makers with some restrictive covenants.
Unless we get things in perspective, there is no reason to believe we will ever exit this downward spiral.
Manufacturing is crucial to the health of the U.S. economy. If a Chapter 11 filing is necessary, then let's get it done with the Treasury guaranteeing the debtor in possession financing . . . or whatever "public-private partnership" scheme is designed to make it look like it's not just the Treasury guaranteeing debt.
BTW, I don't see any reason TARP 2 funds can't be used for this purpose. I'd rather see the money go to a productive use than to billions of dollars of retention bonuses for bankers.
The automakers for at least 40 years have been bankers who give away cars instead of toasters.
Newbie 101 | 02.14.09 - 12:43 pm | #
Too many tentacles, stretched way too far. Bound to have some of them cut off eventually.
Time to get outside and move some dirt or something tangible. When the information overloads the thinking circuits and starts flipping the angry circuit, time to drink or chore or both....
\t adornosghost | \t \t \t \t02.14.09 - 12:38 pm | #
## sorry, on re-reading, I see it says 'chore'. Lost it for just a sec.
otishertz writes:
Less than one percent of the cars on the road contain someone on their way to work.
Cite? Never you all even bother, you can't. Make it up if it sounds good and you can try to sneak it in. Caught.
I will dig for dinner.
otishertz | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:46 pm | #
LOL me too! Just got some nice Highland beef steaks out to thaw. Now I have to earn them.
...you would be amazed to know the number of lefties i know who used to argue, before busco,that the 2nd amendment only applied to state militias
and now they profess belief that the right to keep and bear arms applies to each and every law abiding citizen
and even worse (better) they quote jefferson!
mock turtle | 02.14.09 - 12:15 pm | #
left vs. right becomes the haves vs. the [been]had
.
I don't see any reason TARP 2 funds can't be used for this purpose. I'd rather see the money go to a productive use than to billions of dollars of retention bonuses for bankers.
\t sportsfan | \t \t \t \t02.14.09 - 12:47 pm | #
you don't? really? you mean you're still willing to encourage these people?
## sorry, on re-reading, I see it says 'chore'. Lost it for just a sec.
blonderengel | 02.14.09 - 12:48 pm | #
ROTFL......choring, whoring....whichever. One costs money, one saves money. And doctor bills
A favorite house wine is Cahor, so we often refer to ourselves as Cahor whores.
Anonymous(Unrated) writes:
I keep coming back to pushing the population to the point they do rise up and then the implications of martial law. All rights are suspended during martial law and congress can't review the decision for 6 months.
Important lesson. I hope this doesn't seem disrespectful but I think it needs repeated again and again.
There are two things a state must have to exist. First, people must beieve in it. Second, it must have cash flows sufficient to povide political gods that meet or exceed the expectations of the population.
Do you think America would have either after 6 months of martial law? not that it couldn't happen, but you should fear starvation more than the police if it does. I can think of no better way to kill large percentages of the American population than a knee-jerk attempt to go to "Code Red".
Article: Red alert means virtual lockdown. (Insider Report).(Brief Article) | AccessMyLibrary - Promoting library advocacy
That dude's stated intentions would kill millions. "TAKE THE MARKET ON THAT" as Eric would say
you mean you're still willing to encourage these people?
pooki | 02.14.09 - 12:50 pm | #
I don't know who "these people" are. Are you referring to auto executives?
If so, they can be replaced, but then, so can bank executives.
Joanna writes:
Time to get outside and move some dirt or something tangible.
Joanna | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:32 pm | #
Thanks Joanna.
My tiny farm, my nanofarm, calls.
Tearing myself away now...
G-7 Says ‘Severe’ Downturn to Persist, Vows to End It (Update2)
G-7 Says ‘Severe’ Downturn to Persist, Vows to Reverse Slump - Bloomberg.com
(G7 will solve all of our problems. Time to shop...)
it just gets juicier
"Leaders Scramble to Keep Boeing Jobs in Washington"
Gary Davis KPLU NEWS
SEATTLE, WA (2009-02-13) Boeing's future in Washington is up for grabs. The company is looking to other states as potential manufacturing sites. Now, Governor Chris Gregoire has put a leader in charge of keeping those jobs here"
(story goes on to state boeing is looking to relocate to a state in the southeast were wages are lowest and"right to work" limits unionization)
id recommend alabama, it has one of lowest corporate tax rates, a regressive individual tax structure (poor pay effective 11% rate, upper class pay equivalent to 3% of income in state taxes
and
as a bonus
one a high illiteracy rate and out of wedlock birthrate
so boeing would have a plentiful and cheap supply workers
To the pill addled consumer all cooped up in a souped up media mobile this land must not seem worth saving, only landscaping. Perhaps mechanical disconnect with the Earth somehow reinforces disregard for the land and the environment. People put televisions in their dashboards and dwell in media bunker houses with no windows. They put a two car garage where the front porch used to go. Their neighborhoods have no sidewalks.
End the sedentary, flee the sprawl.
Get a bike. Save a fortune. Start to live.
Go Outside.
| \t02.14.09 - 12:38 pm | #
\t otishertz | \t \t \tHomepage
This world, this planet, this outdoors is our true home. Otishertz, you said it! Tomorrow I've planned a local outing to explore some winter-beaten wetlands and fields. Who knows what I will find!
Go outside!!
Anonymous writes:
otishertz writes:
Less than one percent of the cars on the road contain someone on their way to work.
Cite? Never you all even bother, you can't. Make it up if it sounds good and you can try to sneak it in. Caught.
Anonymous | 02.14.09 - 12:48 pm | #
i made that shit up.
they call it hyperbole.
G-7 Says ‘Severe' Downturn to Persist, Vows to End It
FFDIC | 02.14.09 - 12:53 pm | #
LOL. That was funny, the 'vow' part.
Hope Angela is recovering well.
Byzantine Ruins,
Political gods? Even with the typo, it is still correct.
Less than one percent of the cars on the road contain someone on their way to work
Then we must be in a Depression, for sure.
For those who may have missed it, Gavin S on the last thread provided a link to a video:
Bill Moyers Journal: Interview with Simon Johnson
I rate this video 'Must See' for anyone who cares about the future of the U.S.
after 6 months of martial law?
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:52 pm | #
martial law is the mechanism by which altruism is eradicated.
Take the market on that!
Hee. I thought so too. =)
I'll be stepping out for a moment. My spouse has made an adventure in the kitchen. Please pardon me.
otisherz writes:
they call it hyperbole.
otishertz | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:54 pm | #
not the one of the many other words that I would have used
is it time to let the company fail, re-organize, and try again from that status?
Bankruptcy is the only way, but not 'debtor in possession'. A receiver should control the restructuring with the support of the creditors. Management should be rolled over - particularly exec. mgmt and board of directors. New blood from the industry put in control. Wipe out the common equity and make bondholders into stockholders.
When they have a believable plan with new team, then consider government injection of capital, with equity fully equal to amount of US cash.
Get the automakers out of the lending biz. Wipe out the contracts with dealers and start over with the auto company owning the sales/service outlets. Fixed price, fully transparent pricing. Third party financing (credit unions, small banks).
Whole new model for the industry.
Out with the old.
.
Rising fascism: "It's all the immigrants fault." Isn't transference great?
Skinheads, Neo-Nazis Draw Fury at Dresden 1945 ‘Mourning March’ - Bloomberg.com
largest since 1990
.
Go outside!!
Sue (Capital S) | 02.14.09 - 12:53 pm | #
Bueno!!!!!!!!
ot the one of the many other words that I would have used
JD | 02.14.09 - 1:00 pm | #
so use them, if you have a point.
As a follow-up on Simon Johnson, the blog where he writes offers some excellent financial analysis for those who are interested in the tough stuff:
Baseline Scenario
I got the feeling that site was like a graduate seminar and I skipped eonomics as an undergrad.
Tomorrow I've planned a local outing to explore some winter-beaten wetlands and fields. Who knows what I will find!
Sue (Capital S) | 02.14.09 - 12:53 pm | #
A great investment is/are guidebooks to local medicinal plants/weeds. Once you learn to really see what's right at your feet, a whole new world opens up. I have some books that also talk about what the local tribes used various plants for, and it amazing to know there are so many useful plants right in my own yard.
"There are two things a state must have to exist."
It must provide for the common welfare. If necessary, it must be able to defend the populace from enemies domestic and foreign.
Various forms of the state have been able to fulfill those criteria. Definitions of the common welfare may vary.
Beneath it all, I believe, there are fundamental human necessities without which any society will fail. These include mutual trust and cooperation, along with a functional moral system. These, IMO, are in turn based on the family, the basic unit of human society - not the creche, the commune, or the market. The family is the venue in which people learn to be human.
Societies in which the family can't function and survive are dying or dead. What may take their place more resembles the wolf pack or an ant hill than a human community.
Remember Winston Smith's neighbor and his son?
Nemo has to test out his tweaks.
Highlights from FFDIC link above:
G-7 Says ‘Severe’ Downturn to Persist, Vows to End It (Update2)
By Simon Kennedy and Sandrine Rastello
[snip]
The authorities are still at a loss on the best course of action 18 months after the credit crisis broke out. ThatÂ’s left them pursuing a disjointed approach as the global economy deteriorates further and companies from Microsoft Corp. to Nissan Motor Co. cut jobs.
[snip]
A $787 billion package of tax cuts and spending increases passed late yesterday by the U.S. Congress encourages companies to “Buy American.” France is demanding carmakers keep production at home in return for aid.
“We must be vigilant on creeping protectionism whether it is intentional or unintentional,” U.K. Chancellor of the Exchequer Alistair Darling said.
[snip]
The omission of any G-7 currency from the communiqué meant “there’s likely to be only a muted reaction” in markets, said Brian Dolan, chief currency strategist at FOREX.com, a unit of online currency trading firm Gain Capital in Bedminster, New Jersey.
As he predicted a “second wave” of countries seeking assistance, the IMF’s Strauss-Kahn signed a deal with Japan to give the lender access to an extra $100 billion after it issued loans from Iceland to Pakistan to Hungary.
[snip]
G-7 Says ‘Severe’ Downturn to Persist, Vows to Reverse Slump - Bloomberg.com
emerika needs to declare chapter 13 bankruptcy
joe shmoe writes: You are describing the past, which was as recent as just a couple of weeks ago.
The Rubicon has been crossed.
The Rubicon was crossed by a handful of MSM commenters, but not by the population at large and certainly not by the Congress - that was my point.
Whole new model for the industry.
JimPortlandOR | 02.14.09 - 1:00 pm | #
I like that a lot more than saying "let the industry die."
MrM
We are in agreement that the process is still moving, and not yet at the tipping point to clean the banks.
But I think it is a little further along than you do. We will see.
G7 vows?!? ROTFLMAO.
I can just imagine what the communique drafting process was like.
Given the sh!tpile that Tremonti has presided over there's really no good reason for Italy to still be in the fold, let alone be making pronouncements about the future of the system.
Ghesh.
C
otishertz writes:
"Less than one percent of the cars on the road contain someone on their way to work. Mediamobiles."
the fact that some of you actually took the time to debunk this obvious exaggeration cracks me up.
that you thought someone else might believe less than one percent of cars contained someone going to work is telling.
made you think!
Whole new model for the industry.
JimPortlandOR | 02.14.09 - 1:00 pm | #
I like that a lot more than saying "let the industry die."
sportsfan | 02.14.09 - 1:07 pm | #
I wish we could work on a model valuing quality over quantity. Get the car companies replacing the interurban trains & trolleys they helped destroy back in the day. Not 100 years ago, I could have walked 1/2 mile to a train stop, got into the next city down the line, then used trolleys to do my errands. Tehre were suburbs back then, based around trolley/train stations, not cars & roads.
Lots of happy feel-good things to pimp in that. Jobs, saving the industry, green commuting, etc.
On Boeing in Wash State
mock turtle writes:
it just gets juicier
"Leaders Scramble to Keep Boeing Jobs in Washington"
Gary Davis KPLU NEWS
Compare that to what Governor Arnold is doing in California. The new budget deal reportedly includes $1 Billion in tax breaks for big multinational and multi-state corporations, with the justification that it is necessary to feed them tax breaks to compete with other states for the location of their business opertations.
The biggest beggar thy neighbor threat the US faces is internal, not external.
The Federal structure allows corps to play blackmail.
wow 2 million unemployed ... the upper Midwest will look like a Cormac McCarthy novel.
sportsfan - I posted last thread on the tone of baselinescenario.com. I thought it was overly earnest, but your description of undergrad seminar is excellent.
Many thanks, bang on.
C
blondengel
It would be nice if you posted some of your poetry at the link. Same for Pavel.
This is my personal suggestion for a car plan that would work:
Chrylser should go into bankruptcy by mars 2009, will make it possible for GM and Ford to gain market share. Chrysler should get a $6 bn support from the goverment to pay of suppliers and to give laid off workers a good new start.
GM should get $22 bn to pass the year. Should shut down SAAB, OPEL and HUMMER to make it possible for the other brands to gain market share. Should cut salaries with 30 %, goverment should force salary cuts.
Ford should get $8 bn to pass the year to 2011. Should shut down VOLVO and one other foregin brand. Should cut salaries with 25 %, goverment should force the unions to agree.
I think this could be a viable plan to save the auto industry.
hey portlanders,
MINI BIKE WINTER 2009
S H I F T to bikes!
BikePortland.org
Counterpointer,
Those guys are not just shooting from the hip. They are actually trying to figure it out. Good for them. I hope they get exposure in the halls that matter.
About 15 years ago, GM came out with the GM credit card. I got one. They give you a 5% rebate toward points to buy or lease a GM card.
I put just about every purchase for 15 years on the GM card. In the process, I earned close to 10,000 points. Each point is worth a dollar.
I have leased three GM cars, two Blazers and an Equinox. They were okay cars, not bad, not great. Each time, I redeemed about 2,000 points or more for the downpayment. Each time, it took about five minutes to call up GM and redeem the points right from the showroom. No problems.
Now, I'll probably get screwed out of the last 2,000 points I earned. I guess I'm an unsecured creditor or worse. I can't sell the points to anybody.
I hope the parts suppliers get paid. But if it comes down to their parts or my points, I'm hoping for my points.
P.S. I've been getting a lot of e-mails from GM offering to "top off" my points (give me a thousand or so more) if I will buy or lease a car right now. Maybe I will.
ova - airlines have white-tails, but what is the collective noun for auto inventory?
C
ova,
i enjoyed your writing at
401 Authorization Required
i was surprised, and flattered, to find my post there.
i thought hoops was kidding me when he said he was going to post my comment on some website.
I bought a new Ford 2 years ago. The promotions, and I am getting a lot, are not all that good.
Then Toyota still mails me promotions and I bought my truck 22 years ago. Still have it too
@FFDIC - First, I hope your family is doing well.
Second, you posted about a development at Walnut Hill & 75 possibly being suspended. I was wondering if you've heard others? There is an area of Kings Road between Maple & Cedar Springs that has seen the low-rent apartments razed in the last year. I've heard that Park Cities Bank now owns the land courtesy of a developer that defaulted. But I can't find any official stories about the topic. Heard anything?
Watch the Democrats keep GM and Chrysler alive long enough to help kill Ford. Ford has a chance to survive if they just let the others go away.
The Democrats at the FCC delayed the Sirius/XM merger long enough to kill those companies. Expect the Sirius bankruptcy announcement soon.
We live in interesting times.
Yves has a couple of exceptional new posts up:
"We Are Threatened by a Veritable Disaster" - Feb 14, 2009
"We Are Threatened by a Veritable Disaster" « naked capitalism
Another Sign That Volcker is Marginalized (And a Preview of His Program) - Feb 14, 2009
Another Sign That Volcker is Marginalized (And a Preview of His Program) « naked capitalism
otishertz,
I thought yours was pretty good. There are some talented people here. I think this place is one of those unusual confluences that happen once in awhile.
I bought a new Ford 2 years ago. The promotions, and I am getting a lot, are not all that good.
Then Toyota still mails me promotions and I bought my truck 22 years ago. Still have it too
nova | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 1:20 pm | #
We're truck shopping (probably used) and go back & forth over Toyota quality (own a 1991 4runner) and Ford cheapness.....still waiting for the right promotion to buy new.
Ok...partner is on her way home from a morning OT shift, so no more internetting
Off to Lowe's to bailout their electrical department, lots of manual labor, grilled steaks, beer & 80's music!
I'll check back & see if everyone has sorted out the car BK problems.
(Nova, mind if I post a couple girly pomes at the site?)
"lawyerliz writes:
Ahhh, Florida is more mature.
So that's what it is.
lawyerliz | 02.14.09 - 12:08 pm "
Thank God Florida and California has the most alt-a liar loans yet to foreclose on. No way Washington will beat Florida or California to the bottom.
Bill Moyers and Simon Johnson on Banking's Oligarchs
From last night's Bill Moyers program, an interview with Simon Johnson on banking's oligarchs:
BILL MOYERS: What are you signaling with that headline, "Geithner vs. the American Oligarchs"?
SIMON JOHNSON: I think I'm signaling something a little bit shocking to Americans, and to myself, actually. Which is the situation we find ourselves in at this moment, this week, is very strongly reminiscent of the situations we've seen many times in other places.
But they're places we don't like to think of ourselves as being similar to. They're emerging markets. It's Russia or Indonesia or a Thailand type situation, or Korea. That's not comfortable. America is different. America is special. America is rich. And, yet, we've somehow find ourselves in the grip of the same sort of crisis and the same sort of oligarchs.
Paul Kedrosky: Bill Moyers and Simon Johnson on Banking's Oligarchs
Stimulus Plan Places New Limits on Wall St. Bonuses
Stimulus Plan Tightens Reins On Wall St. Pay - NY Times
A provision buried deep inside the $787 billion economic stimulus bill would impose restrictions on executive bonuses at financial institutions that are much tougher than those proposed 10 days ago by the Treasury Department.
Top economic advisers to President Obama adamantly opposed the pay restrictions, according to Congressional officials, warning lawmakers behind closed doors that they went too far and would cause a brain drain in the financial industry during an acute crisis.
Who are the 'Top Economic' advisers?
Joanna
I would be delighted. I am not king there. There are instructions on how to go about doing it. I just spam a lot.
Obama for dictator!
We should just hand over the keys right now and get it over with. Rule by emergency decree, clean up the mess and hope he is willing to give up power when he's done teaching us all a lesson.
We're so screwed! You gotta just laugh.
How long until Toyota is in this same corner? They have a little more cash but issued (meager) buyout notices to their most expendible 18,000 fat-lazy-American workers to weather the storm. Americans employees are a nuisance to the japanese. Even their American execs are not allowed to piss until their japanese overlords tell them is's Ok. It's a show, just to get into the market and Shelby the stooge fell for it. A laugh really.
I say preserve the American car makers and penalize the japanese for the firings by not letting them in at the trough. Fire the management.
And... Screw the bankers.
Usage note:
I misused the word 'venue' above. 'Place' would have been preferable.
Sportsfan
excellent, excellent interview you linked to above
Simon Johnson
WOW
Bill Moyers Journal: Interview with Simon Johnson
And... Screw the bankers.
bearly | 02.14.09 - 1:25 pm |
Apparently what Dodd snuck in is even more strict than what the WH said:
The stimulus package Congress was poised to pass last night imposes new limits on executive compensation that could significantly curb multimillion dollar pay packages on Wall Street and go much further than restrictions imposed by the Obama administration last week.
The bill, which President Obama is expected to sign into law next week, limits bonuses for executives at all financial institutions receiving government funds to no more than a third of their annual compensation. The bonuses must be paid in company stock that can only be redeemed once the government investment has been repaid. The measure seeks to address public outrage over extravagant Wall Street paydays as taxpayers bail out the industry.
Unlike the rules issued by the White House, the limits in the stimulus bill would apply to top executives and the highest-paid employees at all 359 banks that have already received government aid.
Pavel Chichikov |
Yes, I was really disapointed in you.
If Toyota and Nissan have to make a choice between keeping Japanese plants running or US ones. I would say it will be the Japanese ones.
Mr. Sparkle | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 1:20 pm | #
That is in the OakLawn gay hood. The Dallas Voice gay rag runs RE reports of interest in that area. I would call them and ask if they know anything unless you are a reader. It has an on-line edition w/limited articles. You might also try the Dallas Business Journal. They are always looking for good tipsters. I have not personally heard. Here is a Voice link with a smiling photo of our lesbian Sheriff Lupe Valdez. Lupe only smiles for photo ops...
Dallas Voice :: The Community Newspaper for Gay and Lesbian Dallas
"We Are Threatened by a Veritable Disaster"
Conjure and I agree completely with Leijonhufvud. We think a lot of analysts, Paul Kasriel among them, are going to be blindsided.
Conjure asks, "Are you preparing for the next leg down?"
Simon Johnson
Former IMF? Chastising the US oligarhs? How can this be? Eating their own now.. must be real bad times.
re: GM
The United States is a lot closer in spirit to France than it cares to admit
Expect a national champion to be formed, rather than decimation
Methinks GM stays alive for no other reason to keep their pension obligations off PBGC books
Chrysler is too toxic to touch. If they get a real bailout, one is certain for GM
Otherwise it's Générale Moteurs pour tout!
FFDIC(Excellent) writes:
Lupe only smiles for photo ops...
What happened to her eyebrows?
"Yes, I was really disapointed in you."
Perhaps, but for what?
Perhaps, but for what?
The venue error. It was humor. I thought.
Oh, for using the word 'venue'? It's a legal term I've been misusing for years. Better late than never.
A question to UST experts: What the hell is going with the short end of the yield curve? That the long-term yields are rising is to be expected. For example, 30-yr yield went from 2.83 on Jan 02 to 3.68 on Feb 13. However, for the past two weeks the 1-month yield has been above 0.20, whereas for most of January it was 0.05, which is what you'd expect under ZIRP. Is something afoot?
What happened to her eyebrows?
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins
Latino women have Sharpie eybrows. They draw them on with a Sharpie if they need them
MrM writes:
A question to UST experts: What the hell is going with the short end of the yield curve? That the long-term yields are rising is to be expected. For example, 30-yr yield went from 2.83 on Jan 02 to 3.68 on Feb 13. However, for the past two weeks the 1-month yield has been above 0.20, whereas for most of January it was 0.05, which is what you'd expect under ZIRP. Is something afoot?
Small, insignifigant buyer's strike for higher wages.
A veritable disaster? When has life for human beings ever not included the possibility of disaster? If we adapt we will survive.
SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE
GM should file for bankruptcy already.
And the government should stop trying to fund GM's daily operations with bailout money. It'd be better spent with government contracts to buy their cars! At least then the government would get something tangible hard asset instead of just buying time for GM's commercial paper.
"Conjure and I agree completely with Leijonhufvud. We think a lot of analysts, Paul Kasriel among them, are going to be blindsided."
The so called analysts would not be blindsided if they regularly read CR especially after midnight. Just sayin and where is that quote from? I'm not at 100%. For those of you with a continued interest in Angela she had a ruptured uterus as I understand it after many hours in labor which made the C-setion determination. She had been on bed rest since at least late Dec. due to high BP and severe anemia which never never got controlled IMO. Discharged after 3 days. Even if they had kept her in the hospital 5 days it occured after that time elasped. Baby Kimora is doing great and is very healthy with 0.00% jaundice test. I'm meeting my elderly parents at the hospital tomorrow and taking a break from visiting today (my first) to give Angela a chance to rest. We restricted visitors today because she was getting too many nearby co-workers coming in all week after work and we didn't want it all day on the weekend when they are off.
citizan energycon
your recommendation yves smiths exceptional post
"We Are Threatened by a Veritable Disaster" « naked capitalism
you are right
what a read...stimulus plan is way tooo small in the face of all the financial unwinding
and
if it were big enuf we would see big big inflation as we dig our way out
shit
What happened to her eyebrows?
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 1:31 pm | #
An old menudo accident from her youth.
FFDIC | 02.14.09 - 1:38 pm
I wish you and all involved the best. As a parent, I can only imagine how you feel.
I misused the word 'venue' above. 'Place' would have been preferable.
Pavel Chichikov | 02.14.09 - 1:26 pm | #
You realize, of course, that there are some mistakes that are simply unforgiveable.
What a job restructuring , they lay off another 11,000 and keep people like Wagoner who are responsible for there downfall. Big business as usual. Crap floats to the top. The same people are still on their board of directors sucking up the cash while the stock holders loose , loose , loose.
Haha - Johnson was never an insider. Partly why he left the firm early. And great timing too. Blanchard is much more a company man, very tame, no rocky the boat, firm and stern on the data, but you won't get Rogoff-style theatrics out of him.
But maybe that's good right now. I don't think it would be much in any interests to have each side of 19th St blasting away at each other like we had 10 years ago.
C
This was at the end of the nakedcapitalism post. I do not know enough to argue if it augers inflation or not. The final line after it was not cheerful either.
Much will depend on the willingness of the nationÂ’s foreign creditors to continue to accumulate or at least to hold dollars at low rates of interest. Should this willingness falter, inflation will be hard to contain.
FFDIC(Excellent) writes:
The so called analysts would not be blindsided if they regularly read CR especially after midnight.
Shh, we Apocalptite tribals are keeping them warded off with carved masks and filed teeth.
ova,
Japanese, and other foreign companies, have already made those decisions to a limited extent. Home country is the last to face losses.
I call it branch plant syndrome, expendable if it doesn't pay its own way.
GM's eventual bankruptcy has been obvious to anyone looking at the P&L and balance sheet at Google Finance anytime in the last year. GM Management's ability to squander money is breathtaking - the company that for years was synonymous with corporate America has negative retained earning, enormous debt, and not enough cash flow to even muddle through.
So why is the stock not trading at $0? There would be no equity left in liquidation - the debt holders won't even come close to being made whole. Mr. Market must be betting on Government intervention - yes?
The best thing the Feds could have done for domestic car manufacturing, and balance of payment issues too, was to initiate a carbon tax that permanently raised the price of gasoline to $4/gallon in real terms. This should have been done 20 years ago. Foreign automakers have a stable, small-car market everywhere in the world except here to base their business model on because gasoline prices are high and stable. U.S. automakers have a home market in which demand is highly unstable - usually high for trucks, SUVs, and big-block engines in general, but abrupt and short to medium-term demand shifts occur because of exogenous petroleum shocks. It is difficult for a business with multi-year product development cycles to compete in such an environment. The foreign companies can simply wait out the upset in the American market and benefit from the fact that their U.S. competitors are financially weakened by each demand shock.
The allocation of capital in this country makes no sense. Huge tax incentives for buying and selling residential housing encourages speculation in non-productive assets. Speculators and short-sellers who purchase stocks from each other pay 15% capital gains; debt buyers funding industrial expansion pay up to 33% tax on interest. The U.S. trumpets free-trade with countries who pay wages that are circa 1% of ours and drain away our industrial base.
Summers and Geithner represent the forces of the status quo. To arrest the long-term decline of GM in particular and the U.S. in general, we need new ideas and new leadership. It doesn't look to me like we're going to get it anytime soon.
GM needs to move to Warren where the rent is cheaper!
Calculated Risk: Office Space: One Year Free Rent
GM debt for 2012 and beyond below 50 cents already. But the current stuff close to 100.
FINRA - Investor Information - Market Data - Bonds - Quick Screener
What does this do to the CDS. Start the cascade?
Just to repeat... The Simon Johnson interview is absolutely mandatory viewing.
Bill Moyers Journal: Interview with Simon Johnson
But is anybody listening?
[JP2 writes:
GM needs to move to Warren where the rent is cheaper!]
GM's engineering center is in Warren. It's the only thing holding warren's head above the waves.
Nemo writes:
Just to repeat... The Simon Johnson interview is absolutely mandatory viewing.
Nemo, you do not need to argue this point here. Please write your Congressmen.
MrM,
Fed didn't declare ZIRP, they promised to keep overnight between 0 and 50bp
Bernanke's main thrust is to encourage the spread of low interest rates throughout the credit system.
That's where the CPFF (?the commercial paper buying one) and talk of buying the long bonds itself comes i
If we cant figure how to run the car business, we'll just shift over to the extortion business. RW
augers
nova | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 1:43 pm | #
While we're picking nits: augur.
So... exactly how bad off is GM? I kind of need a new car. It'd be nice to pick one up for a song... (even if it is a GM model).
@FFDIC - lol. That particular area on Kings Road just borders that neighborhood. That street in particular is very run-down/scary. Also, I believe that there is a public housing project in there.
The development work over the last year or so has surprised my wife and I. You can build new stuff, but it's a tough sell to get people to live across the street from public housing. I'm thinking the downturn shattered the projections for the developer in this case and he just walked.
Bloomberg.com:
Government Bonds
A day after the 10 year treasury auction, yield increases 6% in less than 24 hours.
That is 18 months+ of the coupon awarded within the span of a day.
A stimulus package will only work to the extent that that spending can be funded via debt. This is an ominous and expensive metric which may be subject to skyrocketing yields. Or fails. Whether this stimulus bill is simply a papered over palliative will depend on whether bond buyers remain as deep and liquid as represented.
Nemo writes:
Just to repeat... The Simon Johnson interview is absolutely mandatory viewing.
I agree. Obama for dictator. Is it time for a revolution?
GD - you dont HAVE a brother (as my brother would like to say)
OregonGuy
You can't blame America's desire for SUVs on GM
Look at how hard Toyota was/is trying to best GM in that sector, the most profitable and fastest growing market
GM is not going bankrupt because of their SUVs, but in spite of them
We can't have every major financial and industrial company file for bankruptcy at the same time... Can we?
FFDIC - feel for you. I went through an experience with my now-4 year old's birth which involved him getting stuck, huge fluctuating bradycardia, and emergency c-section. It's no damn fun seeing your unborn fetus go from 150bpm to 48bpm heart rate every 5 minutes.
But he's great now. Fantastic kid. Wears me out daily.
C
Conjure asks, "Are you preparing for the next leg down?"
mp | 02.14.09 - 1:29 pm |
parcel of land paid off...check
well or equiv water source...check
seeds, rototiller shovels and rakes...heck
cash and other (other) negotiables...check
rifle and whats to be the new precious metal...check
first aid kit and Rx...check
firewood and stove...check
bicycles and wheel barrows and wagons...check
soaps bleach, detergents, hygiene products...
toilet paper...never mind use dollar bills
all the basic supplies a boy scout would have...check
one, small mortgage free residence...check
ongoing to do list
meeting with local community leaders to establish a neighborhood peace and well-being council...(dont let your neighbors go hungry because it aint right and it aint safe)mock turtle
I'll say it one more time and if it pisses anyone off, try to focus and keep this in context, because I love you all and have free chocolate here shaped like ♥®
That was from a few weeks ago, but how many billions do you toss into a burning fire, and for what reason? Does anyone think these companies will produce something that smells better than shit?
Musical Tribute:
Heart - Crazy On You (Live on TV - 1976)
YouTube - Heart - Crazy On You (Live on TV - 1976)
Counterpointer | 02.14.09 - 1:43 pm | #
Thank you for your comments on Johnson,
I thought for a moment that things were really going down the drain.
Looks like the economic hitmen are still at it then.
EHP - CPFF is, IMO, the most effective program created by the Fed so far. It (together with TGLP) very much keeps banks afloat.
Now, since the yield on short-term Ts jumped so much in just a mater of weeks, the money had to go somewhere (or not return from somewhere). Where? That's the question. It surely did not go to longer maturities, and probably not to other G7 currencies.
China holding back?
off-topic: for all the posters that have children
Just curious, at what age are kids less like puppies and more like humans?
MrM
Don't know where it went, perhaps in to the absurd rally in gasoline. I get the sense there will be a rally in oil early this year, and it will fail. Supply cuts are scheduled, but they haven't made their way downstream yet.
EvilHenryPaulson:
I don't blame GM at all. They have to build what we want to buy. A big problem I see for GM is that demand for SUVs and trucks is destroyed every once in a while by some exogenous shock that causes gas prices to spike. This doesn't happen in Europe and Japan - because taxes keep gas prices permanently high, consumers always want small, fuel-efficient cars in these markets.
My point is that Government policy that tries to keep gas prices as low as possible makes it difficult for GM to compete. We pay for low gas prices in other ways - 13 aircraft carrier battle groups, invasions of Middle-East countries, etc. It would be smarter to set the price of gas higher and mothball a couple of carrier groups.
Like your name by the way.
EvilHenryPaulson writes:
off-topic: for all the posters that have children
Just curious, at what age are kids less like puppies and more like humans?
The day they start speaking in sentences.
Just to repeat... The Simon Johnson interview is absolutely mandatory viewing.
Nemo | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 1:45 pm | #
Anybody who quotes Nemo on NPR deserves to be heard!
Don't forget that, depression aside, there is huge overcapacity in the worldwide auto industry. There is capacity in Europe, the US, Japan, Korea... and plants all over the world owned by companies in those countries. The US makers did poorly even at the height of one of the greatest booms ever, so how would they have any hope now that we are returning to normal times? BK to reorganize may even be futile - the ultimate end here is probably elimination of one or two of the US companies. There is probably enough non-auto production to still justify at least one of them.
Not that this is controversial anymore but it bears repeating:
"There can be no progress until stock holders are wiped out and bond holders impaired to the limits of their exposure."
Just curious, at what age are kids less like puppies and more like humans?
EvilHenryPaulson | 02.14.09 - 1:54 pm | #
I'd say about the time they start to talk about things,...two or three.
Many of these monstrous dinosaurs like GM, GE, Honeywell, etc., can only survive by rolling over their debt. When that option disappears, they will die without a government bailout.
Shut down volvo, are you nutz! what is the ford family going to drive?
they already sold range rover!
ust curious, at what age are kids less like puppies and more like humans?
EvilHenryPaulson | 02.14.09 - 1:54 pm | #
if you talk and read to them from the very beginning...
soon after they say their first word and take their first step
children zoom beyond the relm of puppies, day by day, at a gazillion miles an hour
hold on for the thrill adventure ride of a lifetime!!!!
Thread music - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smja5QnFR9U
The handshake
Seals the contract
From the contract
Theres no turning back
The turning point
Of a career
In korea, being insincere
The holiday
Was fun packed
The contract
Still intact
The grabbing hands
Grab all they can
All for themselves
After all
Its a competitive world
Everything counts in large amounts
The graph
On the wall
Tells the story
Of it all
Picture it now
See just how
The lies and deceit
Gained a little more power
Confidence
Taken in
By a sun tan
And a grin
The grabbing hands
Grab all they can
All for themselves
After all
Its a competitive world
Everything counts in large amounts
The grabbing hands
Grab all they can
Everything counts in large amounts GA_googleFillSlot("lyricsfreak-300x50-btf");
Mr. Sparkle | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 1:49 pm | #
In 1994 I rented a new 2 bedroom upscale apt w/FP/WD/single garage sight unseen from Boston (where I was working for FDIC) at the corner of the tollway and Cedar Springs. Had never lived in Dallas and didn't know the area. I stayed a year and then bought my current home in 1995 so I know that area pretty well. It was guarded and gated and I never had a problem except for constant very low SW Airline flights overhead landing at Love Field.
Haha - the EHMs are in permanent employ. It's just a matter of strategy and tactics.
And remuneration, natch.
C
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local dealer selling a new 2009 malibu for 14999
Ford mkt cap = $4.2 B
GM mkt cap = $1.53 B
Avon Products mkt cap = $9.11 B
Come on people, this is stupid, all the taxpayers are doing here is giving money to a bunch of losers!
The competing choices, which highlight GM's rapidly deteriorating operations, present a dilemma for Congress and the Obama administration. If they refuse to provide additional aid to GM on top of the $13.4 billion already committed they risk seeing an industrial icon fall into bankruptcy.
P.S. I've been getting a lot of e-mails from GM offering to "top off" my points (give me a thousand or so more) if I will buy or lease a car right now. Maybe I will.
rich
I suggest you use the points now. A few days ago I read or heard a report on CC's revoking points w/o warning. Evidently you have no right to those points, strictly up to the CC company.
Nemo writes:
Just to repeat... The Simon Johnson interview is absolutely mandatory viewing.
Nemo | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 1:45 pm
And check out his contribution to the most recent Baseline Scenario at:
Baseline Scenario, 2/9/09
For EHP,
One of the cool things I've learned is that kids get cognition before they get verbal expression. Hence many of the meltdowns. They are so many little speech center impaired stroke victims trying to express themselves.
But they can learn simple signs for things very quickly and easily. People who have done it say it is very good and handy, although I have no get to test it on.
Dodd kinda says it at the end of the Johnson interview. BankersRterrorists
@FFDIC - my wife's 1st year of residency she lived on Cedar Springs (also right next to the tollway). She had the same problem with flights but with the additional fun of the ambulance heading to the hospital complex all hours.
Another resident actually lived on King's Road one year and moved out when someone got stabbed in the parking lot. But that was the year before we moved here.
http://cxa.marketwatch.com/finra...n=& MaturityMax=
What does this do to the CDS. Start the cascade?
bearly | 02.14.09 - 1:45 pm |
the cds is the only reason this stuff is'nt zero, and in liquidation.
the cds is a nice book-entry equation that allows major bond buyers to hold on to the paper. it puts a bid on it.
But they can learn simple signs for things very quickly and easily. People who have done it say it is very good and handy, although I have no get to test it on.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 2:03 pm | #
Yeah, we didn't do much, just 'more' and 'milk', but the sign language communication is amazing
Rothbard has the solution. Read and learn and please forward to your friends in Iceland.
Repudiating the National Debt - Murray N. Rothbard - Mises Institute
otishertz-
I am currently car free, and enjoying it. I went backpacking a few weeks ago using public transport to the trail head. Didn't see anyone for days.
Going mushroom hunting today.
Yves Smith's post and links were interesting, but she and Axel and most economists are still missing the forest for the trees- this system cannot be salvaged by any amount of fiscal policy.
The private sector is deleveraging a truly gargantuan amount of debt- an order of magnitude larger than the federal budget for the next two years. The best that fiscal policy could do in this situation is to simply cut payroll taxes to zero, and maybe even cut income taxes to zero from the bottom-end up. This would, at least, actually aid the needed private deleveraging. In essence, we directly transfer debt load from the private to the public balance sheet and would buy time, but only a little bit of time.
The problem is that the true public balance sheet is already in really, really, really horrid shape and only looks good because the liabilities coming due are not actually counted by the standard measures (Smith acknowledges this).
We either start letting the debt go bad, or we create a firestorm of inflation that burns it all down anyway.
SilentThunder | 02.14.09 - 2:03 pm | #
Thanks for the link.
sportsfan writes:
For those who may have missed it Interview with Simon Johnson
I rate this video 'Must See' for anyone who cares about the future of the U.S.
Outstanding video. My take-away: in order to survive this most of the bank managers are going to have to be removed. (beheaded) Private capital pitted against the banker-Bastille.
"Bill Moyers and Simon Johnson on Banking's Oligarchs
From last night's Bill Moyers program, an interview with Simon Johnson on banking's oligarchs:
BILL MOYERS: What are you signaling with that headline, "Geithner vs. the American Oligarchs"?"
The show was a bit of a diversion tactic shifting you away from the world oligarchs, to the local ones. Don't forget about the world oligarchs who really run and ruined us all.
"The insulation of a car severs you from the lay of the land. It keeps you from hearing the message of the Earth."
And motorcycle riders?
Don't forget about the world oligarchs who really run and ruined us all.
Who are they pray tell?
But is anybody listening?
Nemo | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 1:45 pm | #
Done. Eureka moment: The FDIC's OZ insurance contributed to making the banks too powerful.
Just curious, at what age are kids less like puppies and more like humans?
EvilHenryPaulson
Anywhere from 18 yo to 25 yo. YMMV
heheh
FFDIC.....Hope everything goes well for all. Good Luck........Yours in Peace
"Don't forget about the world oligarchs who really run and ruined us all.
Who are they pray tell?
Haha | 02.14.09 - 2:15 pm |"
Rothschild, Rockefellers, Warburgs, and the Bildebergers in general.
Just curious, at what age are kids less like puppies and more like humans?
EvilHenryPaulson | 02.14.09 - 1:54 pm | #
age 0.3 if their brains don't swell full of 15 vaccination cocktails on the day they are born.
animal DNA
disabled viruses
aluminum
formaldehyde
etc
An old menudo accident from her youth.
FFDIC | 02.14.09 - 1:40 pm | #
You got the right stuff, FFDIC - hang in there.
km4 sed: "Apparently what Dodd snuck in is even more strict than what the WH said...."
No, no, no, no, no, no, NO! It's a Dodd/banksta shell game. I wrote this in an earlier thread, because, as usual, most people (products of our public education system--hi Joanna) can't read and comprehend.
Dodd's "tough limitations" on banksta rake-offs are YACFS (Yet Another Complete Fucking Scam), a negotiated set-up with the bankstas to dupe J6P and make the lying criminal scum Dodd (but I repeat myself) look like some kind of "champion of the people," while all he was really doing was handing the bankstas another blank check with the phony "bonus"-only formula.
Read the article: "The revised rules do not impose a formal cap on executive compensation... ."
Say wha'?
"But some experts [gotta' have some fucking experts (SPIT!) weigh in] on executive compensation warned that the restrictions could unleash unintended consequences, like encouraging banks to increase salaries to make up for diminished incentive pay... ."
They just shift the egregious, obscene rake-offs from one category to another.
Did somebody say "bonus"? Bankstas say: "No problem--BOHICA."
Denriddy
was it km4?-- who posted the link above to paulsomebody's transcript of the Moyers interview?
am confused-- within the transcript, Simon Johnson describes exactly how the top banker execs can get around the Dodd sanctions against bonuses.
Wow. Sure was hard to see that one coming.
owl writes:
The banks get whatever they want, in the middle of the night, even if it involves "trillions of dollars"
The auto makers aren't so lucky,. They are guilty of actually producing something.
yeah, crappy overpriced cars.
Mark my words, the U.S. banks will not open on Monday. Book it.
Monday's a national holiday, Reinhardt, so of course banks won't open. Presidents' Day. Or are you being snarky?
Comrade Peronista(Unrated) writes:
\tRothbard has the solution. Read and learn and please forward to your friends in Iceland.
http://mises.org/article.aspx?Id=1423
\t Comrade Peronista | \t \t \t \t02.14.09 - 2:08 pm | #
## jubilee
21. Mine went from puppie to monster to human...
\t FFDIC | \t \t \t \t02.14.09 - 2:17 pm | #
FFDIC | 02.14.09 - 2:17 pm | #
How is your daughter doing/ Well, I hope-
I have a hunch the bankruptcy filing will go through. Since everybody is expecting it now the gov. will be more likely to let it happen. The financial markets won't be as upset when it happens.
Ozymandias...aw, yes I remember it well!
Ozymandias
I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled hp and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read,
Which yet survive stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
.And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my works. Ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
If Chrysler can force enough cars down dealers throats, it can fool the government into believing its generating more legitimate revenue than it actually is."
Max | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 12:43 pm | #
Nice background info. Is your first name Car?
The union just walked out of talks with GM today...
Let them go BK..
Please start over...
You've been sold out...
YouTube -
You should be blowing your brains out too...
Fuck'em. Let the morons go bankrupt and replace the unions with cheap foreign laborers.
sportsfan writes, "Manufacturing is crucial to the health of the U.S. economy."
Not quite right. Manufacturing what someone wants to buy at a price that affords a profit is crucial to an economy's health.
Never Going To Stop.................
Whatever.. I dont like american cars..
go bankruptcy plzz
Counterpointer:
for a brief time I worked in the International Treasury Dept in late 1985, I had just finished 2 years at the Times and thought hey, an airline? what the hell... our offices were of course in the Pan Am building on Park Ave... what struck me immediately was how shabby everything looked... office furniture that looked as if it had been recovered from pitched out street stuff and IBM computers that still had dual boot floppy drives! if I had any sense back then I would have shorted the bejesus out of the stock...
we parted ways some months later when they didn't deliver part of my comp package - a free domestic flight a month and 4 international flights a year.... tried to give me the bum's rush...
Bankruptcy now the only option. Gettlefinger rejected a well-crafted good-faith offer crafted by Sen. Corker in December, and walked out today.
He has run through any remaining goodwill that may be left for the UAW.
off-topic: for all the posters that have children
Just curious, at what age are kids less like puppies and more like humans?
Do you mean when they go from innocent to guilty?
Yeah, we didn't do much, just 'more' and 'milk', but the sign language communication is amazing
My son has down syndrome and invented his own signs. My daughter, 2 years, younger, used the signs before talking.
Of course, everyone around was freaking out thinking she'd be delayed and tried to get her off the signs.
The reality is that talking is much more efficient than signing, when a person is good and ready to talk, they'll talk.
everyone on here know BK will not happen. More ponies for them.
What's good for General Motors is terrible for America.
Nationalize the workers and set them to the new task of building out public transportation systems. Eliminate management with no golden parachute; golden showers optional.
Bankruptcy. What's good for the country is good for General Motors, and vice versa.
" ...Charles E. Wilson while president of the General Motors Corporation, a leading United States automobile manufacturer. Wilson later became secretary of the federal Department of Defense."
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