Welcome to the militaryindustrialprison complex!

This sounds very Dickensian.

Which probably beats Madmaxian.

Just.

C

Thread music:

Shoo Be Dubai Doo Da Day

You know what I would pay money to see?

"Jim the Realtor -- Dubai edition"

haha, I didn't speak until around late age 4
EvilHenryPaulson | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 2:10 pm | #

That fits,...you started speaking in full sentences?
My daughter's first sentence at two: "I want chocie-let!", before that it was mostly point and grunt.  As far as I know, she had only tasted it once before at her aunt's,...hmmmm.

Kona, see prior thread...TKS!

force people into prisons that over consume.
SexyNumbers | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 2:23 pm | #

according to otishertz, I think they're single occupant prisons called SUVs.

The secret to a long life is knowing when it's time to go.

FRONTLINE: home | PBS
TEEVEE WORTH WATCHING REMINDER:
PBS / Frontline
Inside the Meltdown
Feb. 17th check local listings

Well if Dubai is in the toilet, MGM shareholders can kiss that safety net good bye and becareful with their Center City project and shareholders. Dubai was to be a big player with MGM, but now with no oil money they are useless. Dump this stock if u own it. Vegas will be another Dubai. SCARY!!!

Just curious, at what age are kids less like puppies and more like humans?
EvilHenryPaulson | 02.14.09 - 1:54 pm

age 0.3 if their brains don't swell from 15 vaccination cocktails administered moments after birth.

animal DNA
disabled viruses
aluminum
formaldehyde

etc

children have the mother's immunity at birth.

I didn't speak until around late age 4
EvilHenryPaulson | Homepage | 02.14.09 - 2:10 pm | #

Could you fetch or roll over?

I can't figure out why anyone would go to Dubai except to "be rich in a rich place." There's nothing there; the place seems wholly artificial, completely man-made. It seems to have less actual culture than Vegas.

The video about the luxury apartments going begging mentions "the beautiful view." But a view of what? Big shiny buildings that were built within the last five years. So effing what?

dubai is castles in the sand.

we all know what eventually happens to sand castles

i can see the stucco frosted styrofoam on that palm tree shaped fake island from here.

I second that suggestion from Nemo.

Jim the Realtor touring the artificial islands would be a real hoot.

Rotating buildings, ski slopes and man-made islands in the middle of a hot oversized litter box with no natural resources or beauty.

Dubai does have some beautiful beaches. Of course they're covered in sewage right now. Fortunately that's not a problem, because if it were the market would have anticipated and solved it. Remember, market solutions are perfect in every way! (hums overture to Candide).

The Dubai saga is among my favorite story lines second only to Madoff.

I can't figure out why anyone would go to Dubai except to "be rich in a rich place." There's nothing there; the place seems wholly artificial, completely man-made.

That must be what attracted Michael Jackson. Gee, I hope he doesn't lose his shirt in Dubai. 'Cause, then, there would be photos an' all. Eewww.

The whole plan for Dubai is a completely binary gamble. They are converting something with a strong demand and value (oil & gas) into something with an uncertain value (RE in a desert in a sparsely populated region of the world). The very definition of malinvestment?

Think high classed brothel for a repressed and overly religous part of the world.

And casino and bar. Actually, given how many hangups the neighbors have it's a pretty valuable service. The bubble was stlll nutso of course. They could have forestalled it with aggressive capital gains taxes on real estate transactions but sadly they were in the thrall of free market orthodoxy.

i can see the stucco frosted styrofoam on that palm tree shaped fake island from here.

The homes on that island look exactly like the ones in California's Ghost Town, er...Inland Empire. Can get them here for 1/20th the price. And I dare say we have the better location.

MrM --

Censeo Bank Shareholders esse delendam

I think you meant "Censeo bank shareholders delendam sunt"

(Third person plural passive periphrastic)

"Censeo bank shareholders delendam sunt"

With indirect speech, even quoting your own thoughts, the infinitive is used, so esse is corrent.

"There are plenty of bargains right now."

Yeh. Sure.

And the echoing footsteps as she walked through the apartments and villas sound an awful lot like those of Jim the Realtor in San Diego.

alright, i will admit that vegas is no berlin or rome, but to say it has no culture just bothers me.
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my neighbor is a painter and is always going to various competitions in the valley so i'm sure you can google a bunch of vegas painting/sculpture crap.

people that mindlessly dog vegas stink of jealousy and insecurity to me. vegas has what you are looking for. if you are seedy you will find seedy people and places. just like any other place.

my friday flight back home to vegas from dallas via okc was packed full. the party was in full swing by the time we landed.

"mal writes:
Er, Michael, ever checked out teh Google or anything?

Secret Dubai diary 
mal | 02.14.09 - 2:49 pm |"

The secret is out. Many an Arab shake are shitting their shrouds these days.

Can we have debtors' prisons in America? Please? I'll even give up my right to receive a pony.

batteries charged, bike tires pumped, burrito shop down the block...

later taters.

What surprised me most about the Dubai story is that 90% of the population is foreigners. This story could have a very unhappy ending. Remember what happened in Zimbabwe when they started throwing out the foreigners?

But with the government unwilling to provide data, rumors are bound to flourish, damaging confidence and further undermining the economy.

Instead of moving toward greater transparency, the emirates seem to be moving in the other direction.

From what I've read recently it sounds like the state played a large role in promoting this development as well as encouraging the inflows of hot money and easy credit that fueled what now appears to be an unprecedented speculative insanity.

In other words, some state authority had far more power and influence in Dubai than the likes of our congress and Alan Greenspan, so the excesses were vastly worse.

To put it another way, we have comparatively free markets in this country; whereas their markets are more controlled by central authority.

Since the controlled markets inevitably end up in the hands of the power-hungry megalomaniacs, the free markets tend to cause relatively less economic and human carnage.

Statism and managed markets are the best vehicle we have for promoting petty criminals to national tyrants.

Maybe it's better to let them fight amongst themselves as ordinary citizens.

BTW, don't be a tool and fall for this "free market ideologue" garbage.

Nobody wants price-fixing and central control over the markets more than Wall Street.

The goal of Wall Street is to abolish free markets, establish a financial monopoly, take control of the economy, and castrate the government.

And the government goes along with it because they want that power too, but they don't realize they're being conned into playing a game they don't know enough about to win.

Once the free markets are gone and we have ten times as many regulators and regulations, the Wall Street crowd will run the nation.

The Washington bureaucrats don't stand a chance against these guys.

And for that matter, neither will you.

mal, please humor me. where are you located?

My German is a little weak (full disclousure: I speak no German), but think I heard the Realtor lady say: "It's a great investment oppourtunity". ---people that read MLS lsiting will get that.

mal, i guess i'm just a provincial bumpkin so i'll have to ask you to clarify this for me. by "the other new york" do you mean london? thanks.

Just viewed the Simon Johnson interview. A must see. And he is not even dealing with the actual problem of bumping against the psychical restraints of our current superstition based economic model.

I've always heard that if you Dubai, they don't Sharjah.  (Aerospace engineer humor -- sorry.)

I would really like to see a blog like this for Dubai The Housing Bubble Blog this was my favorite blog in monitoring our downturn in the early days.

I wouldn't expect that. Dubai censors, as was mentioned in the Secret Dubai link above. In addition, I will point at that popping the Dubai bubble strikes to the financial stability of the ruling family and remind you that one of the censored blogs is titled "UAE torture".

Definitely, don't hold your breath.

Abu Dhabi will be fine - a trillion dollar SWF, loads of oil, only running a budget deficit if oil falls below $31.

Expect Sheikh Mo to come begging on his knees in a few months.

ac writes:
Thread-tube:
Radiohead - Fake Plastic Trees

YouTube - ? v=rN1ClwfVvis
Anonymous

It's funny; I listen to music all day at work but routinely forget that Radiohead even exists.

But when people ask me who I think is the best band around these days I'll usually say "Radiohead" if my memory is working - I think of them as up there with bands like the Beatles and Pink Floyd, etc.

And that's the last I'll think of them until I accidently stumble onto one of their songs.

Again, I'll chalk it up to becoming stoic, cynical, and heartless as the years go on.

Really those damn hippies should stop trying to make a living recording all their moaning, whining emo crap on overpriced CDs and get a real job.

“I’m really scared of what could happen, because I bought property here. If I can’t pay it off, I was told I could end up in debtors’ prison.”
Sofia, a 34-year-old expatriate.

This lady and many many other have no clue about economics. You are not a homeowner unless you have no mortgage on the house. If you have a mortgage, it means you have not purchase the house yet. At best you are a co-owner with the bank. If you can't pay the mortgage in the 29th year of a 30 year mortgage, you will be thrown out in the street, which should be an indication to anyone how much of a homeowner you really are.

and yet she says the Dubai market will tunr around in a few months...based on what?
crispy&cole | 02.14.09 - 4:19 pm | #

Based on her desire to make a commission today by selling something to a greater-fool.

Hah, they don't need the debtor prisons in Dubai; they can use all the completed, and will never be lived in condo towers in Miami Beach, and downtown Miami. Or, they can move all the regular prisoners there, to enjoy the water view, and put the most egregious debtors and banksters in the old prisons.

Down Goes Sheik!
.

The social contract seems to be shredding globally as unemployment and unrest continue to rise, per the NYTimes...

Unemployment Surges Around the World, Threatening Stability - NY Times

Dang, linky:

YouTube - Swervedriver @ The Fillmore "Last Train to Satansville" 2008

C

joe - do you suppose the takeover is already underway? That the "regulators" already on scene are actually the first wave of government managers? That would be a mighty canard.

I was recently "made redundant" (lovely Brit term) from my job in the UAE last month. Back in the states now - here's a few observations in no particular order:

Where did the money come from/where did it go? The only emirate with any oil is Abu Dhabi (The UAE is composed of seven emirates - not like states in the US, more like countries in the EU. Each emirate is autonomous, has it's own government, rulers, etc.) the other emirates like Dubai had to find other sources of income - very limited oil revenue sharing. Most money inflows, especially the last few years has been "hot" money - excessive oil revenues from places where that revenue was not kept in its home country (think Russia, etc.). Too much money thrown at any market leads to bubbles. Dubai was the last possible outlet for RE speculation and is crashing faster and harder due to stupid naivete - Read on:

Population - largest group from the Indian subcontinent. Lots of low wage unskilled workers making avg. $300/mth. They send almost all of their wages home to support their families. Not at all involved in the bubble except by botching the construction of the project they are on. Next group is the professional expat - mainly European, but all nationalities represented. They are there to bank a (pretty decent) paycheck. Most are locked out of RE now due to skyrocketing prices, but some got in while salaries and RE prices were nominal. Most send a good sized portion of their incomes back home. Next, the locals - by and large even more mis-informed and uninformed then people in this country. Arrogant and lazy (I met quite a few good locals, but - ) and completely naive about western culture, especially in finance. This naivete goes in some cases to the very top of the food chain there. Recipe for disaster.

Banking: Scary. That's the best way I can describe the banking system there. Remember that a lot of money may flow in from investments, but little from salaries stays, so lots of money flowing out of the banks. Only a fool would keep their money in country. I got mine out ASAP, good thing because when I got my pink slip the bank froze my accounts. No outstanding loans or debts, but they did it anyway. It took almost a month to free up the small balance I had in there, but in the meantime, if I had any outstanding bills they could not have been paid. This is why many expats are bailing literally the day they get canned - it usually takes about a week for the bank to lock you down. The bank also notifies Immigration - they prevent you from leaving the country if you owe money. Debtor's prison there may be an urban myth. Or maybe not - I never heard of that happening there but I do believe it's possible. Curious mix of banking laws - part Islamic, part Western. This causes much of the heartburn in finance. Up until the end of 2008 the banks were literally throwing credit at everyone, much, much worse than here. Last note on banking - every person I ever dealt with at my bank was utterly useless. Mindless automatons, lacking completely the ability to think.

Real estate: Proof positive that a fool and his money are soon parted. Villas there are like McMansions on steroids, but with lousy construction. Add to that poor or no planning. Not far from where I lived was a new development that sat completed and ready to move in - empty for over a year because it took a year longer to get electric lines strung to the area. Normal situation there. Too many stories to recount.

Summing up: Except for Abu Dhabi, my opinion is that the other six emirates are functionally bankrupt. Overleveraged, overexposed, overbuilt, and woefully lacking in the knowledge and expertise to fix the problem before it becomes a catastrophe. However, AD will most likely bail everybody out, at what price nobody knows. The culture is very insular so don't expect them to ever open up about the internal issues. That's why almost all bad news from there is anecdotal - official information is grossly distorted and no real truthful information is available.

Why was I there? Simple - I saw the handwriting on the wall here in the states in my profession - 23 years as an airline pilot - so I sold all RE, got out of the market completely in 2004 and went all cash. Went over there and made twice what I could have here, banked most of it, and now I'm provisioning my sailboat for a long term Pacific cruise.

Fair winds.

This is the third time in a week I'm reading about all the abandoned cars. Spoke to someone from Dubai who said it is quite exaggerated.

Could be. But foreigners do seem to be leaving Dubai in some numbers so I imagine that the used car market is fairly saturated -- especially for cars that aren't paid for. A look at a map will illustrate that there aren't a whole lot of places to drive that car to where the price might be higher. So, why not abandon it? All you lose is the delta between what you owe and what it would sell for.

I've held the notion for over a year now that debtor's prisons would be the best way to get the U.S. out of its current economic slump. It would allow us to improve our net balance of trade by producing our own products at a globally competitive labor rate; it would allow for economics education of the imprisoned so that reckless financial decisions are no longer made; it would keep otherwise homeless people off the streets and reduce crime; it would prevent the government from supporting profligate bailout measures which support the rich while ignoring the poor; I could go on and on. This is an idea whose time has come, but it probably won't due to the constrains imposed upon society by political correctness.