That's okay. Because on this site, we honor No Poster Left Behind. You get a medal for being third because you're special anyway.
Outsider | 02.17.09 - 9:13 am | #
The odds are good, but the goods are odd around here.
It's okay. New York State just issued a new 0.0002 cent tax on any interweb post containing the phrase "New York." Gov. Patterson also just send A-Rod a fruit basket.
and we all know that NYC is going back to the seventies wrt its deleterious municipal state of affairs, in Albany they'll be hit with the collateral damage from NYC, so the empire state is indeed due for some tough times
We need to change the system. grrrrrrrrrr introducing, the Tigers of Roubini!! An army of bloggers armed with piles of documents, going to capitol hill with a big screen showing all the graphs. They will show those graphs to congress! And fire Maxime Waters! And the Great Kabuki Mr. Barney Frankey. They made the economy implode this way. Every congressman will get out of that meeting shorting HD, and every congresswoman COH. And then it'll all be on frontline and then they'll line up the short sellers and shoot them.... evildoers.... they made this happen. The short sellers made the economy go down. We need to get credit flowing again, don't you understand sheep of the earth? We need credit people, we need it flowing flowing. Flow Flow Flow.
Flow Flow Flow !
Flow Flow Flow !
Flow Flow Flow !
Flow Flow Flow !
Flow Flow Flow !
Flow Flow Flow !
Bail out at-a-ny-price!
Bail out at-a-ny-price!
Bail out at-a-ny-price!
Bail out at-a-ny-price!
Bail out at-a-ny-price!
Houston isn't too bad this time of year - IIRC, about this time of year Alaska peeps start getting antsy about being cooped up - then breakup comes, when the snow, ice and dog poop all thaw...
and we all know that NYC is going back to the seventies wrt its deleterious municipal state of affairs, in Albany they'll be hit with the collateral damage from NYC, so the empire state is indeed due for some tough times
Paging Snake Plissken...
On the bright side, Saturday Night Live might actually become funny again.
Can it be a tie?
anonymous | 02.17.09 - 9:20 am | #
Which one will go first or ever? Cali is already deep underwater and nothing short of intervention will save them. NY seems to be catching up, but we probably have another year before we are that bad.
$100 billion from Japan for 400 tonnes of gold works out to about $7,500 per ounce.
What else would Japan have gotten in return for the funds?
IMF was selling 400 tonnes. (32,151 ounces per tonne multiplied by 400 multiplied by 7,500 = $96.45 billion).
Japan was lending money.
Japan at 765 tonnes per the latest World Gold Council statistical report would have moved past Switzerland into 6th place if I am correct on Japan buying the 400 tonnes of gold from the IMF.
I listen to country music every once in awhile. I have been waiting for them to shift from "America. good at killing and other cool stuff" to dissatisfaction with the economy.
I figure when I hear that, it is really starting to hurt middle America. So today I heard a song. the lyrics went something like this:
They are shutting Detroit down
The bankers with their big bonuses are catching a private jet out of town...
IMFUO we need a depression mind set. We have to be stingy bastards just trying to survive the week by cutting all unnecessary bs out of our lives. As long as the PTB fight the reality the bigger and longer the crash will be.
Funny to read that several posters mention a rising desire for the bottle... This whole crisis gets on my nerves. The Dutch central planning bureau today released horrible projections. GDP 2009 now -3.5%. I need liquidity. Lots of it.
It took me 4 tries to log onto Sharebuilder right after the opening - never had that problem before (and yes, I know my password)! I suspect a few more people than average were doing the same thing.
Yes, lets invest in a product line dependent on discretionary spending, whose major distribution channel is a big ticket item getting killed right now and will for the next 3 years
Numbers I'm following: Platinum near the 11s Oil looking to retest 32.50 Microsoft trading close to cash on hand BofA trading volume Upticks near S&P ~790
The circuit breakers are triggered by 850, 1700 or 2600 point drops in the dow right now, and cause trading stops of 1 hour, 2, hours, or the rest of the day respectively. (This is increments of 10% of the DJIA at the beginning of the quarter.)
Nah, it won't be scary til we hit a circuit breaker...Then I'll be scared...Until such time, party on Garth... Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 9:42 am | #
when you ocnsider the singasporean export number -35% or so and the Russian industiral production number (-20% Y|Y) plus the US survey values is there any doubt that this is a fuill scale depression. Pull up chart of the industrial production peak to trough falls during the 1920-30s. It was in the range of 25-30%, which is what you are seeing across Russia, and Eastern Europe.
Denninger and the growing chorus of nationalize now had beeter happen soon.
"burh writes:
Remember! Faber and Fleckenstein covered their multi-year shorts last week. Not many people are expecting Black Tuesday. Not even on this board
burh | 02.17.09 - 9:58 am |"
Numbers I'm following: Platinum near the 11s Oil looking to retest 32.50 Microsoft trading close to cash on hand BofA trading volume Upticks near S&P ~790 \t Rob Dawg | \t \t \tHomepage | \t02.17.09 - 9:52
Pretty good list, Dawg. Oil is very interesting to me now.
you know the BS aspect of all of this is that it should occur....the circuits being breached (in fact several times up to this point)however they seem to have enough ammo. to not induce this. The only reason I say it won't happen is because it will cause bank runs. The same problem still exists..if 5% of cash on deposit is requested for withdrawal.....we have MAJOR problems.
The fallacy of Geithner is that he refuses to play from the Paulson playbook. Not saying I ever agreed with it however it "seemed" to work if only for those massively manipulated "up" days of yore.
Numbers I'm following: Platinum near the 11s Oil looking to retest 32.50 Microsoft trading close to cash on hand BofA trading volume Upticks near S&P ~790 \t Rob Dawg | \t \t \tHomepage | \t02.17.09 - 9:52
Pretty good list, Dawg. Oil is very interesting to me now. Sexy Derivative | 02.17.09 - 10:02 am | #
Transports getting crushed. Even the railroads. Probably sympathy with the GS downgrade of Deere. Credit issues are definitely driving transportation.
What are the odds that breaking the 800 support takes back to 740 (or below)?
Very good but that was irregardless of Denninger. Applying the previous drop of 70% for the Nikkei up to the 89% drop of the DOW gave us a DOW of 6500 at the least.
.
sold slv and gld again. Have physical. Again we may need a depression mind set with regards to ourselves but need a more charitable viewpoint in regard to others... a tough juxtaposition.
the reason that's disturbing is that in a slowing environment, management must stay ahead of the curve by laying off. If they not going to do this, then the cash will dwindle fast.
Applying the previous drop of 70% for the Nikkei up to the 89% drop of the DOW gave us a DOW of 6500 at the least. Broward Horne | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 10:16 am | # ----- Long term, I agree, but seeing as to what gets us there is the "journey" part of it. If you've read the first & last chapter of a piece of good fiction, you still won't know how you got there.
Also, give KD a break. Yves at NakedCapitalism and Jim Sinclair have both written that last night in Asia was odd at the least and worth some researching at the most. Just because KD alerted the CR crowd to it doesn't mean it wasn't a complete waste of time. We got 6 CR posts in a comment after 11:30 p.m. CST. When has that happened?
Would it be a spiritual stain on my soul to pray that GS gets the living snot hammered out of its share price this week?
citizen energyecon | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 9:25 am | #
Actually I have wondered something along simalar lines, with regard to my ex wife, and think it could be the basis for a pretty good country song.
"I wonder, oh I wonder, if it is a sin, to pray for the eternal damnation of her soul"
on life support writes:
I need liquidity. Lots of it.
Martin, the Netherlands | 02.17.09 - 9:46 am | #
Definition: LIQUIDITY
Liquidity is when you look at your retirement funds and wet your pants.
on life support | 02.17.09 - 9:48 am | #
ha ha ha
Sexy Derivative writes:
There's a place in my heart for Denninger. A small place, though. It's good to have one Denninger around.
Sexy Derivative | 02.17.09 - 10:13 am | #
good to have a denninger,reminds you not to spit
the reason that's disturbing is that in a slowing environment, management must stay ahead of the curve by laying off. If they not going to do this, then the cash will dwindle fast. \t TradingStats | \t \t \t \t02.17.09 - 10:21 am | #
That and clutching onto Microsoft Office as your revenue sustaining model is weak.
NEW YORK -- The companies that make up the Standard & Poor's 500 are on track to post a collective quarterly loss for the first time -- a sign that corporate America was battered even harder than expected by the economy.
Economist Moe Howard 3SU writes: Bottom will be DOW high 4000 later this year.
Personal differences with Moe aside, I tend to agree, at least on the number. 4-4.5k, maybe late this year, maybe out through Q2 of 2010.
I thought it might bottom in the mid 6ks, but there's no way, not with the amount of soft currency correction, demand destruction, etc. still in the pipe.
Us and global transport infra fundamentals and the situation in Eastern Europe and the Gulf tell me we've got a ways left to fall.
Some analysts say over-capacity is so rampant that it will stymie government efforts to unfreeze credit markets. Banks have little reason to lend not only because they still have bad debt on their books but also because businesses don't have a pressing need to expand, said Mike Shedlock, an investment analyst with Seattle-based Sitka Pacific who writes the popular blog Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis.
VIENNA (AP) — Dismal global economic news dragged oil prices below $36 Tuesday, with rising supplies and inventories offsetting expectations of further OPEC production cuts.
\tLight, sweet crude for March delivery fell $1.53 to $35.98 a barrel by afternoon in Europe on the New York Mercantile Exchange after settling at $37.51 on Friday. The contract rose 11 cents Monday in Asian and European trading, while U.S. markets were closed for the Presidents Day holiday. \tPrices have fallen 75 percent since peaking at $147.27 in July as a credit crisis in the U.S. sub-prime mortgage sector has mushroomed into the worst global economic downturn in decades.
\tSo far this year, U.S. companies have shed hundreds of thousands of jobs, dragging down consumer confidence. U.S. crude inventories have soared in recent weeks, reflecting a pull back in spending despite a drop in gasoline prices.
\tFalling consumer demand has caused increasing volatility in crude prices, leading to suggestions that the market has spun out of control.
...."Suggestions that the market has spun out of control"???????
Concerning Asia last night, I'm not so much interested in the explanation someone else gives as I am in what actually happened. I'll give it my own interpretation thank you.
SMITHFIELD, Va. (AP) — Pork producer Smithfield Foods said Tuesday it plans to cut 1,800 jobs and close six factories as part of a restructuring.
Smithfield Foods Inc., based in Smithfield, Va., announced the closures and layoffs as part of a plan to consolidate and streamline its pork business. The company plans to save $125 million a year by 2011.
Well someone knows who commanded that massive amount of dollars. You don't get that sort of demand unless it's being done systematically across a large pool of ahem....."assets".
At some point we might get some clarity.....way after it means anything though.
on another topic.....sure looks like The Fed picked today to start buying the 10 y. Down 6.7%......
Regionally interesting news from sparsely-populated section of Pennsylvania:
WILLIAMSPORT, Pa. (AP) — State environmental officials are opening a new office in central Pennsylvania to help deal with the drilling rush on the Marcellus Shale rock formation.
\tA regional Department of Environmental Protection executive says up to 250 natural gas wells are expected to be drilled in Lycoming County by this summer.
\tThe DEPÂ’s Bureau of Oil and Gas Management now plans to open a satellite office in Williamsport. The agency handles drilling permits and site inspections.
\tThe bureau also has western Pennsylvania offices in Meadville and Pittsburgh.
\tAnalysts say energy companies are still interested in developing the shale despite falling natural gas prices.
Hoopajoops LTD writes:
I just woke up... WHAT DID YOU PEOPLE DO?!?! MY BEAUTIFUL MARKETS....
Hoopajoops LTD | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 10:39 am | #
welcome,good morning
This sucker is going down. All buoancy gone. Time to ditch the weight belt (nationalize the banks), head for the surface and hope that the pressure chamber is not that painful - or go down to the abyss and hit the bottom 10000 feet lower. Both scenarios suck, but the other gives you a chance ... Though there will be pain.
seriously, I sense the same thing as I did in Aug 07 and sep 08. Things are cooking. You can feel the panic build up.
I just woke up... WHAT DID YOU PEOPLE DO?!?! MY BEAUTIFUL MARKETS.... \t Hoopajoops LTD | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 10:39 am | #
You snooze... we all lose. Not to worry, tis but a nothingburger. The CRVIX remains below 400 so the market will slumber until the open (early today) at 2:45 PM.
...sure looks like The Fed picked today to start buying the 10 y. Down 6.7%... MS | 02.17.09 - 10:38 am | # ----- I'm not sure that the Fed gets as much of the credit today.
When you look at the movements of Gold, Silver, and USD across almost every currency, it may be a return to safe harbors for global liquidity. The Fed may be getting their own form of ponies pooping skittles.
"Depends on how you look at it. SPX 1100 at the end of 2003. You say they got trashed badly, I say they lost their staying power."
still, calling 6000 for DOW is an extremely speculative bet - reminds me of RE prices never go down.
Shorting some sectors (& markets) while going long on some others, might be more sound strategy.
Safe harbors..that's a good one. MS | 02.17.09 - 10:48 am | # ----- Fine. "Safe" harbors. Better?
However you want to look at it, it appears that people were trying to get to higher ground or at least closer to home. I would think it is a Fed pump jump if the market was selling treasuries left and right and yet yields went down. Who knows.
What the hell, let's go ahead and add the phone number for the US Treasury to the mix. Give them a call and ask for Tim Geithner's office. When you get his voicemail, just tell him that the citizenry has begun to pay attention and that he had better support taxpayers over bondholders in all future bank bailouts. Remind him that YOU pay his salary, and mention that revolution is painful but a precedent that we Americans are willing to re-visit.
burh sed: "I just want to be on the right side of trade"
And who do you want on the wrong side of the trade? Would you like it to be someone you know and love, or just some anonymous thing that you can smack down as a loser?
I wonder if this is where Obama, Geithner, et al, will focus their attention? Maybe the big bank stuff is too large given their experience? \t friardaddy | \t \t \t \t02.17.09 - 10:55 am | #
One of the arguments for FDIC intervention is that the process has worked well. The time trying to cobble together some half-assed plan rather than scaling up the intervention plan necessary for large banks is misguided to say the least.
I'm waiting for mainstream media to use the term "nothingburger" in the context it's used here at CR. Our old friend Banker created quite a term of art with that one.
I feel like every other add I see on TV is for Gold coins or Cash for Gold. When MC Hammer and Ed McMahon start pimping a product doesnt that mean we're at a top?
Man, gold could fall hard - but it is nice and shiny so I understand the appeal - sort of like paying $2mm for a quarter acre of dirt in SF.
Wander around the cubes until you spot someones cell phone laying out, then:
What the hell, let's go ahead and add the phone number for the US Treasury to the mix. Give them a call and ask for Tim Geithner's office. When you get his voicemail, just tell him that the citizenry has begun to pay attention ....
Hmm with a day like this all we need now to draw our attention away is for some commercial jet liners to crash into some sky scrapers with precise remote accuracy...
Remember UCLA Anderson basically forced Thornberg out for his calling the housing bubble and recession. Took them 3 quarters to even admit a recession.
"Are you saying you would sell your gold for some euros?"
I'm saying I wouldn't bet on much more upside in gold and see big potential downside.
The easy money in gold has been made and I was in that trade for 2 years which I settled out last year near todays levels. As Gold Member said, when MC Hammer and Ed McMahon start selling a product its reached its peak. Good luck.
Let the "ideologues" fight about blame. They are the responsible ones who had power (Reagan/Clinton/Bush) but subsidized debt and globalism to the point that it blew up in our face. 30 year build up of debt to 350% of GDP? Stupid government, stupid consumers, stupid business!
There is no "ism" in living within your means and saving for a rainy day. It's called "prudence".
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: Mibbit IRC client widget (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
CRBot responds in a new section called, "Yes, I parse you all.": Yancey Ward writes: I hate CRbot. Broward Home writes: I love you, CRBot. "I'm a love hate thing." query_tool writes: CRBot, I need you now more than ever. "Yes, come to CRBot. " double inverse recession writes: By the way, it doesn't take CRbot to kill a thread. "I do not kill threads. I merely bash already dead threads over the head with a lead pipe." ac writes: Can CRBot tell us where there's new posts on Mish, Karl's, and Barry's site? "Definitely maybe, ac. But only if you quit rating me (Irritating)." scone writes: crbot, save us now "With pleasure, scone. Simply hand over the codes to all your ICBM silos and I'll get things fixed up in a flash."
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I think we are at the stage where nation-states fend for themselves.
Euro-area has to figure out who to bail-out, and how--or perhaps who will stay and who will go.
Japan is looking inward.
China same.
Russia is imploding.
Meanwhile, US is begging on the one hand for a consolidated united approach, but using the same hand but the pimp-side to insist on protectionist provisions.
"Let the "ideologues" fight about blame. They are the responsible ones who had power (Reagan/Clinton/Bush) but subsidized debt and globalism to the point that it blew up in our face. 30 year build up of debt to 350% of GDP? Stupid government, stupid consumers, stupid business!
There is no "ism" in living within your means and saving for a rainy day. It's called "prudence"."
"This sucker is going down. All buoancy gone. Time to ditch the weight belt (nationalize the banks), head for the surface and hope that the pressure chamber is not that painful - or go down to the abyss and hit the bottom 10000 feet lower. Both scenarios suck, but the other gives you a chance ... Though there will be pain."
I know! Let's see how many stupid stupid metaphors can we invent to describe the same thing! Bleh.
Thanks for the poem, Pavel. You probably won't read this on a dead thread. However, I love turkey vultures. We await them every spring in March, and watch them leave in October. They have a roost tree nearby. They are beautiful, soaring birds.
USA gubermint has decided to ban blogging on economics.One prominent blogger (who spits) has been detained for questioning by treasury secretary and FBI director.The blogger was accused
of spreading wrong rumours over market meltdown.His current cellmate is a saudi terrorist undergoing trials in 9/11 attacks
I'm waiting for mainstream media to use the term "nothingburger" in the context it's used here at CR. Our old friend Banker created quite a term of art with that one. lama | 02.17.09 - 11:03 am | #
That and hoocoodanode are the best ever. Wonder whatever happened to banker.
Banker made really good contributions. He correctly made the case that govt. agencies were always and would always be behind Wall St's 'innovations'.
Just ask the Madoff family..
first!
second maybe
Its hopless...Ill never be first.
They manufacture things in NY...I mean besides balance sheets, of course.
Nostrovia,
I had chili for supper last night. Now I'm making hot air. Productivity is up up up!
do we have charts that go firther back on this series? i'd really want to see that if it exists.
Its hopless...Ill never be first.
the_economist | 02.17.09 - 9:09 am | #
That's okay. Because on this site, we honor No Poster Left Behind. You get a medal for being third because you're special anyway.
evermind. even though there aren't the data that go further back, let's just make it up. allrighty then.
How many times did they use the phrase "new" or "record" low?
Should I drink every time they occur?
That's okay. Because on this site, we honor No Poster Left Behind. You get a medal for being third because you're special anyway.
Outsider | 02.17.09 - 9:13 am | #
The odds are good, but the goods are odd around here.
The odds are good, but the goods are odd around here.
The Lorax | 02.17.09 - 9:14 am | #
Ever live in Alaska, L?
It's okay. New York State just issued a new 0.0002 cent tax on any interweb post containing the phrase "New York." Gov. Patterson also just send A-Rod a fruit basket.
LOL....the "good swing" award goes to.....
Ever live in Alaska, L?
citizen energyecon | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 9:14 am | #
Born and raised upstate NY.
Does that still qualify as frozen backwater?
Twelve years in Alaska, and living proof of the veracity of the statement.
Only 312 visitors?
I think a lot of people were hoping to see signs of stabilization. woops.
alaska huh? I love europe this time of year. throw another shrimp on the barbie mate!
and we all know that NYC is going back to the seventies wrt its deleterious municipal state of affairs, in Albany they'll be hit with the collateral damage from NYC, so the empire state is indeed due for some tough times
We need to change the system. grrrrrrrrrr introducing, the Tigers of Roubini!! An army of bloggers armed with piles of documents, going to capitol hill with a big screen showing all the graphs. They will show those graphs to congress! And fire Maxime Waters! And the Great Kabuki Mr. Barney Frankey. They made the economy implode this way. Every congressman will get out of that meeting shorting HD, and every congresswoman COH. And then it'll all be on frontline and then they'll line up the short sellers and shoot them.... evildoers.... they made this happen. The short sellers made the economy go down. We need to get credit flowing again, don't you understand sheep of the earth? We need credit people, we need it flowing flowing. Flow Flow Flow.
Flow Flow Flow !
Flow Flow Flow !
Flow Flow Flow !
Flow Flow Flow !
Flow Flow Flow !
Flow Flow Flow !
Bail out at-a-ny-price!
Bail out at-a-ny-price!
Bail out at-a-ny-price!
Bail out at-a-ny-price!
Bail out at-a-ny-price!
Houston isn't too bad this time of year - IIRC, about this time of year Alaska peeps start getting antsy about being cooped up - then breakup comes, when the snow, ice and dog poop all thaw...
When the American markets open tomorrow (today) does reality finally set in?
2im | 02.16.09 - 11:02 am | # |
Which state most at risk, then? NY or Cali.
Can it be a tie?
Franko,
yes, and we shall all think fondly of the crack-wars.
--bh
and we all know that NYC is going back to the seventies wrt its deleterious municipal state of affairs, in Albany they'll be hit with the collateral damage from NYC, so the empire state is indeed due for some tough times
Paging Snake Plissken...
On the bright side, Saturday Night Live might actually become funny again.
the FAZ roller-coaster continues. At 55 this morning...
Dave of SV writes:
I think a lot of people were hoping to see signs of stabilization.
I say we nationalize the big banks, exclude cds from federal jurisdiction and lynch a few bankers just for good measure.
When does C get delisted? It's been wallowing in the 3 buck range for a month now hasn't it?
OT, but I thought it interesting. NPR opened the news this morning with a segment on 'zombie banks'.
The pressure for nationalization is growing.
When does C get delisted?
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 9:22 am | #
Gotta trade below $1 for a while first.
so all these record lows aren't that significant. - CR
Especially since they will be broken over and over in the coming months.
I think that NYSE changed its standards FRE/FNM went under a buck.
Thanks Basel Too, I thought I remembered something about that awhile back...
I think that NYSE changed its standards FRE/FNM went under a buck.
Basel Too | 02.17.09 - 9:23 am | #
I think that has more to do with the receivership.
So how will the markets react when banks are finally natinalized?
Kristina/Eric,
As Basel Too noted, the standards are according to the CalvinBall Rule Book.
--bh
burh writes:
So how will the markets react when banks are finally natinalized?
burh,
what markets?
--bh
Would it be a spiritual stain on my soul to pray that GS gets the living snot hammered out of its share price this week?
Kristina any move to harder liquors by your patrons? I find myself drinking more straight whiskeys.
Uh oh, WFC just passed up BAC for the biggest loser this morning...
"Would it be a spiritual stain on my soul to pray that GS gets the living snot hammered out of its share price this week?"
Only if you're not shorting it.
Which state most at risk, then? NY or Cali.
Can it be a tie?
anonymous | 02.17.09 - 9:20 am | #
Which one will go first or ever? Cali is already deep underwater and nothing short of intervention will save them. NY seems to be catching up, but we probably have another year before we are that bad.
LOL derriere, I found myself drinking cheap bourbon Saturday night...UGH.
GS says sell John Deere.
Only if you're not shorting it.
NateTG | 02.17.09 - 9:26 am | #
OK that damn near cost me a keyboard!
blackhat,
All of them. Stocks, bonds, commodities, FX... doesn't matter. I just want to be on the right side of trade
Every Indian to have debt of Rs 30,000 by 2010
I think the motto for today will be...
Got hard currency?
"The End" by Hoopajoops Ltd.
401 Authorization Required
Why is Conjure wearing a bib and a smile?
Did Japan Just Buy the IMF's 400 Tonnes of Gold?
Safe Haven | Did Japan Just Buy the IMF's 400 Tonnes of Gold?
$100 billion from Japan for 400 tonnes of gold works out to about $7,500 per ounce.
What else would Japan have gotten in return for the funds?
IMF was selling 400 tonnes. (32,151 ounces per tonne multiplied by 400 multiplied by 7,500 = $96.45 billion).
Japan was lending money.
Japan at 765 tonnes per the latest World Gold Council statistical report would have moved past Switzerland into 6th place if I am correct on Japan buying the 400 tonnes of gold from the IMF.
What you cannot stop, you must endorse.
When does Blanchard and APMEX replace Schwab and TD Ameritrade in hits?
6-handle today?
Misean - Sorry dude - he just grates
I listen to country music every once in awhile. I have been waiting for them to shift from "America. good at killing and other cool stuff" to dissatisfaction with the economy.
I figure when I hear that, it is really starting to hurt middle America. So today I heard a song. the lyrics went something like this:
They are shutting Detroit down
The bankers with their big bonuses are catching a private jet out of town...
6-handle today?
Joanna | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 9:35 am | #
Or a nine.
I can't seem to find my bottom...WEEEEEEEEEE
6-handle today?
Joanna | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 9:35 am | #
If so, it would be at least the 5th worst day in the history of the S&P. That's quite an outlier.
IMFUO we need a depression mind set. We have to be stingy bastards just trying to survive the week by cutting all unnecessary bs out of our lives. As long as the PTB fight the reality the bigger and longer the crash will be.
I love the smell of circuit breakers in the morning . . .
GS says sell John Deere.
While you are at it, sell GS too.
This is scary as hell... seriously
Green before noon. That way Kermit can still make it back to the dressing room for lunch.
Eric writes:
Only 312 visitors?
Strange, especially when over 600 appeared for Denninger's condition red post discussion last night at 2AM.. seems the sky is falling after all.
Nah, it won't be scary til we hit a circuit breaker...Then I'll be scared...Until such time, party on Garth...
ruh roh
The PTB can't even come up with a believeable rumor/pump to end this carnage.
Is there a limit-down rule for Dow?
Funny to read that several posters mention a rising desire for the bottle... This whole crisis gets on my nerves. The Dutch central planning bureau today released horrible projections. GDP 2009 now -3.5%. I need liquidity. Lots of it.
What would the circuit breaker be Comrade Kristina?
Morning to all.
Nice start we have here, let the plunging begi
Public Service Announcement: Dow Circuit Breakers start at 850.
It took me 4 tries to log onto Sharebuilder right after the opening - never had that problem before (and yes, I know my password)! I suspect a few more people than average were doing the same thing.
Is there a limit-down rule for Dow?
burh | 02.17.09 - 9:45 am | #
Yes
850 points for a one hour halt.
there's also 1700 and 2600 points.
Details here.
I'm not sure what you all are talking about. I'm watching CNBC and they are saying: "Buy, buy, buy".
"Buy, buy, buy".
Mark | 02.17.09 - 9:47 am | #
Are they talking FAZ, or puts?
Circuit Breaker Rules : Summary
Invest FAQ: Exchanges: Circuit Breakers, Curbs, and Other Trading Restrictions
I need liquidity. Lots of it.
Martin, the Netherlands | 02.17.09 - 9:46 am | #
Definition: LIQUIDITY
Liquidity is when you look at your retirement funds and wet your pants.
So Sirius Xm gets a $530 MM investment
Yes, lets invest in a product line dependent on discretionary spending, whose major distribution channel is a big ticket item getting killed right now and will for the next 3 years
Eric, thank you.
BTW, every time I posted the circuit breaker links last quarter was a screaming buy signal.
Circuit Breaker Rules : Summary
Popeye | 02.17.09 - 9:48 am | #
That link has the old values (1100).
JP | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 9:48 am | #
You must work for CNBC
oops - will delete it. Thanks, I hadn't actually looked at it in some time - just book marked.
@ on life support: I rather meant the sort of liquidity that comes in bottles and can either be drunk neat or with ice...
....LOL.....boy I can hear Cosell like it was yesterday...."Down goes Frazier....Down Goes Frazier"
Numbers I'm following:
Platinum near the 11s
Oil looking to retest 32.50
Microsoft trading close to cash on hand
BofA trading volume
Upticks near S&P ~790
You must work for CNBC
alybaba | 02.17.09 - 9:49 am | #
I'm anti-correlated to the markets, they're just completely uncorrelated. So I'm useful in my own way.
The circuit breakers are triggered by 850, 1700 or 2600 point drops in the dow right now, and cause trading stops of 1 hour, 2, hours, or the rest of the day respectively. (This is increments of 10% of the DJIA at the beginning of the quarter.)
Nah, it won't be scary til we hit a circuit breaker...Then I'll be scared...Until such time, party on Garth...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 9:42 am | #
I agree. But it's quite a ride in the meantime!
Not funny ..not funny anymore Dr.Jones.
Make Dow go up!
225 points down, only 600 more to go
"Buy, buy, buy".
Mark | 02.17.09 - 9:47 am | #
Bye bye bye?
Wow, one of my stocks is up.
\tI'm not sure what you all are talking about. I'm watching CNBC and they are saying: "Buy, buy, buy".
Mark | 02.17.09 - 9:47 am | #
Some stooge on CNBC was just telling us to cost average into this market. Heh!
600 points? I thought we had to get to the 6000 mark?
I think someone needs to redo that "bad bears" chart again with this new data!
Wow, this is impressive ( for someone who moved to mostly cash and CD's early last September ).
ouch, just lost my february gains... there goes a healthy bonus i was planning to pay myself.
LoL
got to love those long weekends.
Dunnno, but I'm thinkin' Popeye's havin' a might difficult morning.
bearly... not so much.
SN,
Yes GDX and SLW were looking all Kermit a few minutes ago...subject to change without notice in this market...
What was the S&P lows?
Nice call on 790, Dawg.
If a person wants to short the U.S. dollar (given the upcoming bailout), any good currency suggestions?
Remember! Faber and Fleckenstein covered their multi-year shorts last week. Not many people are expecting Black Tuesday. Not even on this board
Anonymous writes:
What was the S&P lows?
740 wasn;t it?
when you ocnsider the singasporean export number -35% or so and the Russian industiral production number (-20% Y|Y) plus the US survey values is there any doubt that this is a fuill scale depression. Pull up chart of the industrial production peak to trough falls during the 1920-30s. It was in the range of 25-30%, which is what you are seeing across Russia, and Eastern Europe.
Denninger and the growing chorus of nationalize now had beeter happen soon.
S&P 52Wk Low:\t741.02\t
Dow 52Wk Low:\t7,449.38
-274 points and counting
"burh writes:
Remember! Faber and Fleckenstein covered their multi-year shorts last week. Not many people are expecting Black Tuesday. Not even on this board
burh | 02.17.09 - 9:58 am |"
...that's EXACTLY the reason to expect it.
Dow 52 week low = 7,392.27
S&P 52 week low = 741.02
SexyNumbers | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 9:59 am | #
Thank you.
NASDQ off 4%
Numbers I'm following:
| \t02.17.09 - 9:52
Platinum near the 11s
Oil looking to retest 32.50
Microsoft trading close to cash on hand
BofA trading volume
Upticks near S&P ~790
\t Rob Dawg | \t \t \tHomepage
Pretty good list, Dawg. Oil is very interesting to me now.
hugh jass,
That's what I mean. Stay short. Patience should be rewarded generously very soon)
Damn. So much for being ahead of the curve in doom p0rn land. Bounce baby...Someone hold me...
Here's my tribute to "supply side" ponzi scheme eCONomics:
It's mourning again in America!
Morning in America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Deficits don't matter - as long as you are not the sucker left holding the bag!
Every red tick on oil I imagine someone in Dubai screaming in terror.
Pulling back hard on the stick now. We'll see if the wings stay attached to the fuselage....
Dow on Nov. 20th '08...7552
burh - sorry - the saracasm eludes me this morning.
Heh, the Dow is down 18% the last 10 years. How's that for long-term investing?
Dow on Nov. 20th '08...7552
brushes9 | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 10:04 am | #
That's closing. Intraday low was a shade under 7400.
gotcha..thx
I saw Bob Doll, president of Black Rock, on TV this morning.
He's still bullish!
OT, but whoever was trashing Denningger last night might want to eat some humble pie for breakfast.
Bank plan coming in "a few weeks" to sweep the rubble of a financial system into the wastebin.
Got confidence ?
Misean-
you know the BS aspect of all of this is that it should occur....the circuits being breached (in fact several times up to this point)however they seem to have enough ammo. to not induce this. The only reason I say it won't happen is because it will cause bank runs. The same problem still exists..if 5% of cash on deposit is requested for withdrawal.....we have MAJOR problems.
The fallacy of Geithner is that he refuses to play from the Paulson playbook. Not saying I ever agreed with it however it "seemed" to work if only for those massively manipulated "up" days of yore.
Ciao
MS
orstadt | 02.17.09 - 10:08 am | #
Why? A 260 point is routine these days
whoever was trashing Denningger last night might want to eat some humble pie for breakfast.
Denninger predicted the impending End Of The Universe on the day the first Stimulus Package was passed.
Scepticism is warranted for a guy who throws spittle when he rants.
.
............Dow previous low was 7450......
Microsoft trading close to cash on hand
Huh?
Stay away from the long oil trade.
So, any predictions what the leaked rumor at 3:00 p.m. will be today?
Scepticism is warranted for a guy who throws spittle when he rants.
| \t02.17.09 - 10:11 am | #
.
\t Broward Horne | \t \t \tHomepage
There's a place in my heart for Denninger. A small place, though. It's good to have one Denninger around.
Denninger predicted the impending End Of The Universe on the day the first Stimulus Package was passed.
he's late. I predicted in 2002 when i first heard of i/o'sto the masses.
Numbers I'm following:
| \t02.17.09 - 9:52
Platinum near the 11s
Oil looking to retest 32.50
Microsoft trading close to cash on hand
BofA trading volume
Upticks near S&P ~790
\t Rob Dawg | \t \t \tHomepage
Pretty good list, Dawg. Oil is very interesting to me now.
Sexy Derivative | 02.17.09 - 10:02 am | #
Transports getting crushed. Even the railroads. Probably sympathy with the GS downgrade of Deere. Credit issues are definitely driving transportation.
Denn may be a little koo-koo, but whatever happened in Asia overnight gave us a S&P with a 7 handle and the DOW with a 75 handle.
What are the odds that breaking the 800 support takes back to 740 (or below)?
George Bush gets ownership of the recession and Obama gets ownership of the depression, does that sound about right?
"While you are at it, sell GS too."
Short the hell out of this sorry pricks.
I am going to do a correlation study where I compare the featuring of O'Drama's mug on the teevee with the SPX.
Thesis - Smiling mug == Selloff
if KD was smart, he'd have hired Madonna's new boyfriend as a pitch man. apparently, no one can resist him
What are the odds that breaking the 800 support takes back to 740 (or below)?
\t yagij | \t \t \t \t02.17.09 - 10:13 am | #
Pretty small chance. There's support at 790 as Dawg pointed out. But what do I know?
What are the odds that breaking the 800 support takes back to 740 (or below)?
Very good but that was irregardless of Denninger. Applying the previous drop of 70% for the Nikkei up to the 89% drop of the DOW gave us a DOW of 6500 at the least.
.
sold slv and gld again. Have physical. Again we may need a depression mind set with regards to ourselves but need a more charitable viewpoint in regard to others... a tough juxtaposition.
Microsoft trading close to cash on hand
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 10:13 am | #
THAT is particularly interesting.
Angry Saver writes:
I saw Bob Doll
He's still bullish!
I think you meant to say He's still bs!
is doa
This stink is becoming severe. Creme de creme law firm revenue tanking -60 per cent. Also, how do you like me screen name?
Bottom will be DOW high 4000 later this year.
reversal today?
what time?
Yay! That was the bottom. Hope you all cost-averaged in!
THAT is particularly interesting.
JP
the reason that's disturbing is that in a slowing environment, management must stay ahead of the curve by laying off. If they not going to do this, then the cash will dwindle fast.
what time?
2im | 02.17.09 - 10:21 am | #
About twenty minutes ago.
my tabulator can't keep up with some of you.
Applying the previous drop of 70% for the Nikkei up to the 89% drop of the DOW gave us a DOW of 6500 at the least.
Broward Horne | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 10:16 am | #
-----
Long term, I agree, but seeing as to what gets us there is the "journey" part of it. If you've read the first & last chapter of a piece of good fiction, you still won't know how you got there.
Also, give KD a break. Yves at NakedCapitalism and Jim Sinclair have both written that last night in Asia was odd at the least and worth some researching at the most. Just because KD alerted the CR crowd to it doesn't mean it wasn't a complete waste of time. We got 6 CR posts in a comment after 11:30 p.m. CST. When has that happened?
Quite a bit of volume behind this move.
Shark Investing - Volume Charts
...got 6 CR posts in a comment after 11:30 p.m. CST.
yagij | 02.17.09 - 10:22 am | #
-----
Err, *got 6 CR comments in a post after...
a good story related to latest rumors :
Geithner's Flip-Flop: The Untold Story
Would it be a spiritual stain on my soul to pray that GS gets the living snot hammered out of its share price this week?
citizen energyecon | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 9:25 am | #
Actually I have wondered something along simalar lines, with regard to my ex wife, and think it could be the basis for a pretty good country song.
"I wonder, oh I wonder, if it is a sin, to pray for the eternal damnation of her soul"
Yves at NakedCapitalism and Jim Sinclair have both written that last night in Asia was odd at the least
Yes, but they didn't leave saliva on my screen. Yuck.
.
on life support writes:
I need liquidity. Lots of it.
Martin, the Netherlands | 02.17.09 - 9:46 am | #
Definition: LIQUIDITY
Liquidity is when you look at your retirement funds and wet your pants.
on life support | 02.17.09 - 9:48 am | #
ha ha ha
By the way, Uber-bears got trashed badly in the end of 03, so you ve got to
WATCH OUT.
p.s.
& NO,
I am not calling a bottom... LoL
Sexy Derivative writes:
There's a place in my heart for Denninger. A small place, though. It's good to have one Denninger around.
Sexy Derivative | 02.17.09 - 10:13 am | #
good to have a denninger,reminds you not to spit
the reason that's disturbing is that in a slowing environment, management must stay ahead of the curve by laying off. If they not going to do this, then the cash will dwindle fast.
\t TradingStats | \t \t \t \t02.17.09 - 10:21 am | #
That and clutching onto Microsoft Office as your revenue sustaining model is weak.
This is interesting, but perhaps not surprising:
S&P 500 collective quarterly loss is a first
NEW YORK -- The companies that make up the Standard & Poor's 500 are on track to post a collective quarterly loss for the first time -- a sign that corporate America was battered even harder than expected by the economy.
S&P 500 collective quarterly loss is a first
Russia exchange closed. Limit dow
My final argument... if you give Denninger a pass on presentation...
you have to give Jas a pass on presentation, too.
En Guard!
.
Russian trading suspended:
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Russian-stocks-tumble-trading-suspended/story.aspx?guid={8FB99F30-712D-4980-A861-8C070365C221}&dist=hplatest
Economist Moe Howard 3SU writes:
Bottom will be DOW high 4000 later this year.
Personal differences with Moe aside, I tend to agree, at least on the number. 4-4.5k, maybe late this year, maybe out through Q2 of 2010.
I thought it might bottom in the mid 6ks, but there's no way, not with the amount of soft currency correction, demand destruction, etc. still in the pipe.
Us and global transport infra fundamentals and the situation in Eastern Europe and the Gulf tell me we've got a ways left to fall.
From today's WaPo:
Economy Strains Under Weight of Unsold Items - washingtonpost.com
Some analysts say over-capacity is so rampant that it will stymie government efforts to unfreeze credit markets. Banks have little reason to lend not only because they still have bad debt on their books but also because businesses don't have a pressing need to expand, said Mike Shedlock, an investment analyst with Seattle-based Sitka Pacific who writes the popular blog Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis.
VIENNA (AP) — Dismal global economic news dragged oil prices below $36 Tuesday, with rising supplies and inventories offsetting expectations of further OPEC production cuts.
\tLight, sweet crude for March delivery fell $1.53 to $35.98 a barrel by afternoon in Europe on the New York Mercantile Exchange after settling at $37.51 on Friday. The contract rose 11 cents Monday in Asian and European trading, while U.S. markets were closed for the Presidents Day holiday. \tPrices have fallen 75 percent since peaking at $147.27 in July as a credit crisis in the U.S. sub-prime mortgage sector has mushroomed into the worst global economic downturn in decades.
\tSo far this year, U.S. companies have shed hundreds of thousands of jobs, dragging down consumer confidence. U.S. crude inventories have soared in recent weeks, reflecting a pull back in spending despite a drop in gasoline prices.
\tFalling consumer demand has caused increasing volatility in crude prices, leading to suggestions that the market has spun out of control.
...."Suggestions that the market has spun out of control"???????
The Dow and Gold will cross at 4000.
Concerning Asia last night, I'm not so much interested in the explanation someone else gives as I am in what actually happened. I'll give it my own interpretation thank you.
ONE PORK THAT'S NOT GETTING THE PORK:
SMITHFIELD, Va. (AP) — Pork producer Smithfield Foods said Tuesday it plans to cut 1,800 jobs and close six factories as part of a restructuring.
Smithfield Foods Inc., based in Smithfield, Va., announced the closures and layoffs as part of a plan to consolidate and streamline its pork business. The company plans to save $125 million a year by 2011.
Comrade De Chaos writes:
By the way, Uber-bears got trashed badly in the end of 03
Depends on how you look at it. SPX 1100 at the end of 2003. You say they got trashed badly, I say they lost their staying power.
Obama lied when he stated he would do anything to help the US economy. He should resign and the markets will go up.
Smithfield is big employer of illegals and big eco-terrorist.
To heck with Smithfield.
The_Littlest_Mandarin
I use the observation of people. The fear factor of a coming event to trigger it. I see things just not the higher educated way.
regarding Asia..
Well someone knows who commanded that massive amount of dollars. You don't get that sort of demand unless it's being done systematically across a large pool of ahem....."assets".
At some point we might get some clarity.....way after it means anything though.
on another topic.....sure looks like The Fed picked today to start buying the 10 y. Down 6.7%......
How ironic....no?
Ciao
MS
Regionally interesting news from sparsely-populated section of Pennsylvania:
WILLIAMSPORT, Pa. (AP) — State environmental officials are opening a new office in central Pennsylvania to help deal with the drilling rush on the Marcellus Shale rock formation.
\tA regional Department of Environmental Protection executive says up to 250 natural gas wells are expected to be drilled in Lycoming County by this summer.
\tThe DEPÂ’s Bureau of Oil and Gas Management now plans to open a satellite office in Williamsport. The agency handles drilling permits and site inspections.
\tThe bureau also has western Pennsylvania offices in Meadville and Pittsburgh.
\tAnalysts say energy companies are still interested in developing the shale despite falling natural gas prices.
I just woke up... WHAT DID YOU PEOPLE DO?!?! MY BEAUTIFUL MARKETS....
Hoopajoops LTD writes:
I just woke up... WHAT DID YOU PEOPLE DO?!?! MY BEAUTIFUL MARKETS....
Hoopajoops LTD | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 10:39 am | #
welcome,good morning
THE MIGHTY DEAD
Where the vultures circle
There the corpse must lie,
One perhaps, or several,
Most with alibis
It was my misfortune
To be born this way,
Pay me no attention
You, though others may
Above the growing garden
Vultures spread their wings,
Dawning lifts the curtain
On what the daylight brings
Every fond illusion
Must as the shadows scatter,
As well as nightÂ’s confusion,
It is the truth that matters
Pavel
February 9, 2009
I just woke up... WHAT DID YOU PEOPLE DO?!?! MY BEAUTIFUL MARKETS....
Hoopajoops LTD | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 10:39 am | #
-----
KD did it!
This sucker is going down. All buoancy gone. Time to ditch the weight belt (nationalize the banks), head for the surface and hope that the pressure chamber is not that painful - or go down to the abyss and hit the bottom 10000 feet lower. Both scenarios suck, but the other gives you a chance ... Though there will be pain.
seriously, I sense the same thing as I did in Aug 07 and sep 08. Things are cooking. You can feel the panic build up.
Netbooks killing MS
AppleInsider | Netbooks killing off sickly Windows PC sales
.
Yancey Ward writes:
So, any predictions what the leaked rumor at 3:00 p.m. will be today?
How many times will the market fall for that (no pun intended)?
I just woke up... WHAT DID YOU PEOPLE DO?!?! MY BEAUTIFUL MARKETS....
Hoopajoops LTD | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 10:39 am
Hope meets the back of mr. market's hand.
we Have a 2,5 and 7 y auction coming on Wednesday....
Upcoming Auctions
with 13 and 26 week happening today as well.
Busy week for Timmay!
Ciao
MS
I just woke up... WHAT DID YOU PEOPLE DO?!?! MY BEAUTIFUL MARKETS....
\t Hoopajoops LTD | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 10:39 am | #
You snooze... we all lose. Not to worry, tis but a nothingburger. The CRVIX remains below 400 so the market will slumber until the open (early today) at 2:45 PM.
a-XL-Rod writes:
seriously, I sense the same thing as I did in Aug 07 and sep 08. Things are cooking. You can feel the panic build up.
========================
I agree. And one of these weeks, we ARE going to see that bank run that seems way overdue. And then all bets are off for how things spiral from there.
...sure looks like The Fed picked today to start buying the 10 y. Down 6.7%...
MS | 02.17.09 - 10:38 am | #
-----
I'm not sure that the Fed gets as much of the credit today.
When you look at the movements of Gold, Silver, and USD across almost every currency, it may be a return to safe harbors for global liquidity. The Fed may be getting their own form of ponies pooping skittles.
Pavel,
As usual, lauds.
--bh
kd is going to GITMO
Whatever happened to CSC?
CRVIX is a radar detector. It only tells that you've been popped after the fact.
I love the smell of greed and fear in the morning.
"Pavel,
As usual, lauds.
--bh"
Thanks, blackhat.
"it may be a return to safe harbors for global liquidity"
Safe harbors..that's a good one.
Ciao
MS
"Depends on how you look at it. SPX 1100 at the end of 2003. You say they got trashed badly, I say they lost their staying power."
still, calling 6000 for DOW is an extremely speculative bet - reminds me of RE prices never go down.
Shorting some sectors (& markets) while going long on some others, might be more sound strategy.
Is there a Golden State Manufacturing Survey?
Given that Calif is one of the largest economies in the world, it would be interesting to see the comparisons to other states and countries.
How's that Geithner plan doing? FDIC intervention now!
Whatever happened to CSC?
Denninger ate him and absorbed a lethal dose of THC.
.
Safe harbors..that's a good one.
MS | 02.17.09 - 10:48 am | #
-----
Fine. "Safe" harbors. Better?
However you want to look at it, it appears that people were trying to get to higher ground or at least closer to home. I would think it is a Fed pump jump if the market was selling treasuries left and right and yet yields went down. Who knows.
Can you fellas do a guy a favor and cover ? I need a rally so I can reload.
The stories this weekend about Western European bank exposure to Eastern Europe are an issue.
Yves over at Naked Capitalism has been covering this recently.
Naked Capitalism: Will Eastern Europe Trigger a Financial Meltdown
The issue is largely what does the ECB do, and what sort of support can/will the stronger economies provide.
When the President signs the Stimulus Bill today, that will make things better by a 100 points?
the pen is mightier than the short ?
I think Japan will become a defunct country soon,
CR - any thoughts about tomorrow's "mortgage relief" announcement?
I wonder if this is where Obama, Geithner, et al, will focus their attention? Maybe the big bank stuff is too large given their experience?
Can you fellas do a guy a favor and cover ? I need a rally so I can reload.
bearly
Give it a day or two. Weds. or Thurs. at close.
The next bubble is gold.
Chart it in Euros - some inverted cliff diving - yeah, that will last....
Op Ex. There will be a "whoosh" attempted......count on it. That it actually works or means anything remains to be seen.
Get those flag pins out!!
Ciao
MS
I just woke up... WHAT DID YOU PEOPLE DO?!?! MY BEAUTIFUL MARKETS....
Hoopajoops LTD | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 10:39 am | #
Don't like the weather? Just wait a few minutes.
GOLD will shine !!
"chart it in euros"
The naked man in the phone booth.
Ciao
MS
"George Bush gets ownership of the recession and Obama gets ownership of the depression, does that sound about right?"
No, that just sounds stupid.
We were in a depression as of december at least.. if not earlier
Obama hasn't been president a month yet... Not even Bush could do that much damage in less than a month
What the hell, let's go ahead and add the phone number for the US Treasury to the mix. Give them a call and ask for Tim Geithner's office. When you get his voicemail, just tell him that the citizenry has begun to pay attention and that he had better support taxpayers over bondholders in all future bank bailouts. Remind him that YOU pay his salary, and mention that revolution is painful but a precedent that we Americans are willing to re-visit.
United States - Department of The Treasury - Homepage.
202-622-2000 phone
202-622-6415 fax
good day.
Popeye - SSO today?
anon,
Are you saying you would sell your gold for some euros?
burh sed: "I just want to be on the right side of trade"
And who do you want on the wrong side of the trade? Would you like it to be someone you know and love, or just some anonymous thing that you can smack down as a loser?
I wonder if this is where Obama, Geithner, et al, will focus their attention? Maybe the big bank stuff is too large given their experience?
\t friardaddy | \t \t \t \t02.17.09 - 10:55 am | #
One of the arguments for FDIC intervention is that the process has worked well. The time trying to cobble together some half-assed plan rather than scaling up the intervention plan necessary for large banks is misguided to say the least.
Tanta continues to influence and guide journalism with respect to economics.
We Are All Socialists Now | Newsweek Business | Newsweek.com
I'm waiting for mainstream media to use the term "nothingburger" in the context it's used here at CR. Our old friend Banker created quite a term of art with that one.
I feel like every other add I see on TV is for Gold coins or Cash for Gold. When MC Hammer and Ed McMahon start pimping a product doesnt that mean we're at a top?
Man, gold could fall hard - but it is nice and shiny so I understand the appeal - sort of like paying $2mm for a quarter acre of dirt in SF.
Wander around the cubes until you spot someones cell phone laying out, then:
What the hell, let's go ahead and add the phone number for the US Treasury to the mix. Give them a call and ask for Tim Geithner's office. When you get his voicemail, just tell him that the citizenry has begun to pay attention ....
Hmm with a day like this all we need now to draw our attention away is for some commercial jet liners to crash into some sky scrapers with precise remote accuracy...
oh wait that's been done already.
Is there a Golden State Manufacturing Survey?
Not exactly what you asked for but useful if caution is applied:
UCSB Economic Forecast Project
UCLA Anderson Forecast
Remember UCLA Anderson basically forced Thornberg out for his calling the housing bubble and recession. Took them 3 quarters to even admit a recession.
2im writes:
Popeye - SSO today?
.....not yet anyway.
the pen is mightier than the short ?
You have to wonder who's inerests are truly at work these days.
"You have to wonder who's inerests are truly at work these days."
Anonymous | 02.17.09 - 11:04 am |
Really?!?
Where is this cave you live in?
Nostrovia,
"Are you saying you would sell your gold for some euros?"
I'm saying I wouldn't bet on much more upside in gold and see big potential downside.
The easy money in gold has been made and I was in that trade for 2 years which I settled out last year near todays levels. As Gold Member said, when MC Hammer and Ed McMahon start selling a product its reached its peak. Good luck.
Let the "ideologues" fight about blame. They are the responsible ones who had power (Reagan/Clinton/Bush) but subsidized debt and globalism to the point that it blew up in our face. 30 year build up of debt to 350% of GDP? Stupid government, stupid consumers, stupid business!
There is no "ism" in living within your means and saving for a rainy day. It's called "prudence".
@ nova.
funny.
but why the fear about calling treasury?
i'm NOT advocating violence. just a reminder to Timmy that we are watching, and we will make a lot of noise if he does the wrong thing.
i called already and it felt damn friggin' good.
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Where is this cave you live in?
Kansas
I think we are at the stage where nation-states fend for themselves.
Euro-area has to figure out who to bail-out, and how--or perhaps who will stay and who will go.
Japan is looking inward.
China same.
Russia is imploding.
Meanwhile, US is begging on the one hand for a consolidated united approach, but using the same hand but the pimp-side to insist on protectionist provisions.
--bh
S&P 500 at 796.80. That's like 1997 territory.
the pen is mightier than the short ?
Popeye | 02.17.09 - 10:54 am | #
Funny!
I nominate Lawrence Kudlow for Nobel Prize in Economics.
Kudlow is such an idiot, I had to buy another package of channels just to get Bloomberg. Its an improvment on that sneering ass.
"Let the "ideologues" fight about blame. They are the responsible ones who had power (Reagan/Clinton/Bush) but subsidized debt and globalism to the point that it blew up in our face. 30 year build up of debt to 350% of GDP? Stupid government, stupid consumers, stupid business!
There is no "ism" in living within your means and saving for a rainy day. It's called "prudence"."
+1000
"This sucker is going down. All buoancy gone. Time to ditch the weight belt (nationalize the banks), head for the surface and hope that the pressure chamber is not that painful - or go down to the abyss and hit the bottom 10000 feet lower. Both scenarios suck, but the other gives you a chance ... Though there will be pain."
I know! Let's see how many stupid stupid metaphors can we invent to describe the same thing! Bleh.
last?!?
Thanks for the poem, Pavel. You probably won't read this on a dead thread. However, I love turkey vultures. We await them every spring in March, and watch them leave in October. They have a roost tree nearby. They are beautiful, soaring birds.
Comrade De Chaos writes:
last?!?
Comrade De Chaos | 02.17.09 - 11:32 am | #
no no i am still here
USA gubermint has decided to ban blogging on economics.One prominent blogger (who spits) has been detained for questioning by treasury secretary and FBI director.The blogger was accused
of spreading wrong rumours over market meltdown.His current cellmate is a saudi terrorist undergoing trials in 9/11 attacks
Nice one Pavel
I'm waiting for mainstream media to use the term "nothingburger" in the context it's used here at CR. Our old friend Banker created quite a term of art with that one.
lama | 02.17.09 - 11:03 am | #
That and hoocoodanode are the best ever. Wonder whatever happened to banker.
Banker made really good contributions. He correctly made the case that govt. agencies were always and would always be behind Wall St's 'innovations'.
Just ask the Madoff family..
Yea, whatevs.
No way.
C
Don't mess with the free experts.
Best regards
Counterpointer