Only 2,000,000?

Around here they call it Tax Increment Financing, or TIF.

CR Edit: Not Nemo. Please stop with the fake Nemo posts ... get another name (banning coming)

So this is inflationary, right?

Edited By Siteowner

Haloscan really barfing !

I thought the idea behind malinvestment is that productive sectors of the economy were idle while capital poured into bubble sectors (housing, flat screens, pizza huts??)

There should be some neglected sectors of the economy that would make worthwhile LT investments. Isn't that what the stimulous package is betting on?

Also too make fakes...

Too many fake Nemos.

It is eerie; it is like he has captured my whole style. By cutting&pasting my earlier comments.

the NYT is really getting tightfisted on Krugman.

Earlier this week, Willem Buiter was boycotting his FT.com blog because they wouldn't give him access to the pre-screened comments. Props to him.

Evwething? What can we inwest in? Very Depwessing. Where's the good news?
How 'bout that 7 handle, looks like it might stick, eh? Gonna test some interesting support points for the more technically minded nerds grazing on the range.

Yep, WalMart is pulling that move here in Panama City. They are building a new store in Lynn Haven which is in the neighboring town about a mile from the old store they will be closing...

watching the frontline "inside the meltdown" piece...

presented as if everything was okay until someone doubted it...

crisis of confidence???

more like a crisis of fact.

Hope the wrap up assigns responsibility more equitably..

ot anecdote:
a friend that was just laid off found out that she is pregnant. it's starting to feel sorta grapes of wrath like round here.

--
"So this is inflationary, right?"

Nemo,

Right. I am scared. I will sell all my Treasuries tomorrow.

Jas

They are building a new store in Lynn Haven which is in the neighboring town about a mile from the old store they will be closing

WalMart is notorious at pitting small neighboring cities against each other for tax breaks. It's going to suck for the mom and pop retailers at the old strip mall location...

--
"Jas, is that Selma Hayak?"

Anonymous,

Who else? She gets...

Sweet dreams.

Jas

OT

Provide tax break to General Motors

Allow General Motors to claim refunds for taxes paid in earlier, profitable years. General Motors and Chrysler received a multibillion-dollar federal bailout in December to prevent them from collapsing.

More Stimulas

Another 3.2 billio

I've been watching a used car lot that sells upscale leased cars - think BMW, Audi, Lexus.

I've been surprised by the apparent affordability. The other thing to remember about car numbers is that as companies go TU, the leased cars have to go somewhere and that's going to further flood the market.

I'm gonna hang in for 2010 and get the wife a really nice used car. And then the newest driver in the family will get my car, Gladys the Rolling Dumpster.

And now that the basement project is finished and paid for, the rest of the spending is going in the freezer.

to say nothing of various households collapsing into existing houses, as double-unemployment afflicts previously prosperous folks (ie. mom&dad&2kids move in with grandparents or cousins) and previously middle-class extended families??
franko | 02.17.09 - 9:44 pm | #

they'll also share the lone family honda to go out looking for work.

There should be some neglected sectors of the economy that would make worthwhile LT investments. Isn't that what the stimulous package is betting on?

Yes, but the catch is that nobody knows what they are. We can conclude, from the bubble sector collapses, that there are other things the involved people and capital could be doing that would be better for general welfare (leisure is one possibility). But, that doesn't tell us what it it. Finding exactly what those people should be doing - or how to redistribute work insofar as increased leisure is the best use - requires trial and error, and time. In the meantime we have unused capital and labor (ie bankruptcies and unemployment).

Has everybody forgotten about the war we a waging in Iraq? It is still going on isn't it? WTF is wrong with us?

There are more than 14M Vacant Units, Year Round
Jas Jain | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 9:37 pm | #

There were 13 million at the start of the bubble.  These are off the market junk that have no relationship to anything.

Nice try Jas.  We're not ALL dopes here, though I agree with you about our "leaders" and "elite".

Anecdotally, I know at least three people who were considering an entry level Macbook who are now looking to buy a netbook instead (Acer or Linux EEE PC) -
mal | 02.17.09 - 9:46 pm | #

make that 4

Amazon.com: ASUS Eee PC 1000HE 10-Inch Netbook (1.66 GHz Intel Atom N280 Processor, 1 GB RAM, 160 GB Hard Drive, 10 GB E-Storage, Bluetooth, XP Home, 6 Cell Battery) Blue: Computers & PC Hardware

and i already have one Eee

I like that the EEE PC's come with a choice of flash memory or hard drives; hard drives can be a pain in the ass.

Er... make that 5...

bobn, reply/correction/apology 

Hope the wrap up assigns responsibility more equitably..
ecoshift | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 9:40 pm | #

No kidding... while I've been impressed with previous journalism from Frontline, this leaves much to be desired. This economic collapse is presented as a soap opera rooted in personalities.

And now I've seen Bernanke's facial pores in high definition. There are just some things that you can't unsee.

I enjoy being pissed on by groups of men.

video: Secrecy and denial as Pakistan lets CIA use airbase to strike militants - timesonline
London Times Exclusive
Secrecy and denial as Pakistan lets CIA use airbase to strike militants

I enjoy being pissed on by groups of men.
txchick57 | 02.17.09 - 9:57 pm | #

Then go to congress and ask for money.

And now I've seen Bernanke's facial pores in high definition. There are just some things that you can't unsee.
ztexas | 02.17.09 - 9:56 pm | #
I thought those were testicle pimples.

txchick57!

Holly cow. are you the original one?

\tS&P futures don't like the Frontline special.
Nemo | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 10:02 pm | #

+0.5% @ ino.  What are you seeing?

how about this-bought a 2004 lexus ls 430 63000 miles $16900-$55000 new

Yes, but the catch is that nobody knows what they are. We can conclude, from the bubble sector collapses, that there are other things the involved people and capital could be doing that would be better for general welfare
Fair Economist | Homepage | 02.17.09 - 9:47 pm | #

harvesting energy from the immediate environment could be one. At of the island in SW FL where i was from the long range cruising sailboats on the bay had water catchers, wind generators, solar water heaters and solar generators. there is no reason houses down there cannnot be as self contained as live aboard cruisers.

they are swimming in free energy and water down there. perhaps for 50k you could rig your house with a cistern, ro fiter, solar water heater, solar electric panels, and a wind generator. if you were a part time resident you could sell power to the utility all summer while you were up north.

towns all around the region are simply dying in detroit fashion because they sold their souls for wet dreams of gentrification, which really meant corporatization and homogenization. the fools on zoning boards who pursued and codified gentrification trully killed the golden goose. the golden goose was the natural beauty and abundance of the environment.

i can only imagine the anonymous complaints to code enforcement that would rain down on me if i tried to go back there and implement any of these ideas. maybe thay need to suffer a while longer before they will be willing to embrace new thinking.

sad thing is their salvation is all around them, beating down on their heads every day as rain, wind and sunshine.

JP --

I am watching in real time. They have gone from ~791 to ~787 in the past half hour.

Not a big move, but enough for me to make a snarky comment.

homedad43: sure, those all sound good. Certainly, with careers shortening due to technological change and lifespans extending, some system for adult vocational education seems essential. And I've been an advocate for long-term health improvement.

However, we can't just plop a few hundred billion into them tomorrow. We don't know what to teach people or what health interventions to pursue, nor what skills the employees need. In some cases we have to figure out how to pay for it. Suppose nagging people to exercise has long-term health benefits for the naggee. Who's gonna pay? Certainly not the naggees and not the insurers. A public program, like how we do schooling? Perhaps, but we don't have a societal consensus for that yet. Society has to learn a lot before it can turn large portions of its production toward such uses.

Madoff and Stanford Financial. If there is not a reckoning in the short term, there will most certainly be a more severe reckoning in the long term. When people become homeless and hungry, you will see these fraudsters pay with their blood. They better hope they have the protection of a federal prison otherwise they will be hanging from trees.

Futures have a teeney bit of life in 'em.

Last shred of hope that O'Drama finally fails to disappoint ?

Ppif simple No Man!

Now...let's see how she takes 4.2 ghz...easy there...don't give 'er too many bumps yet Cap'n.

Nostrovia,

Correlation != Causation

Flowing and robust credit is a side effect of a booming and efficient economy.

Just because the seem to go together does not mean you can just add credit to a stalled economy and make it booming and efficient.

CR:

I've learned more about our economic system, and in particular this crisis, from you than anyone.

But, with all due respect, this amateur no longer believes that past trends will accurately predict the future.

Seems just as likely that pent up demand will be purchasing auto parts.

Too many cars bought with MEW. Too many jobs lost.

Good time to be a mechanic.

Can we rebuild the competitiveness of our dwindling manufacturing base? Will we invest in domestic productivity? Until the broad outlines of answers to these questions come into view, with the concomitant declines in unemployment, it's hard to believe demand projections based on past trends.

othing more ironic than seeing abby j cohen question greenspan with GS's Hormats sitting to her right. What a disgrace. In any other country they would be accompanied by their lawyers

[This can only result in wage deflation.
Sardonic ]

Of course. Our economy has existed on wage deflation for 10 yrs.
Every recession results in wage deflation. This one will be especially brutal.

Welcome to the Second Great Depression.

OT_ -ok everyone here probably is aware facebook and myspace are lame, but the implications of them and others like google and yahoo comandeering user generated content like pictures, writings, and art is creating a creepy and lucrative hoard that will grow in value over time. what if the future president has posted puking party pictures that are no longer her property. what if the future leonardo da vinci has posted his early writings. what of everyone losing "perpetual worldwide license" rights to the baby pictures their mom posted.

the online world gets creepier every day.

"Facebook on Monday said it is not usurping users' content despite changing service terms to claim  to anything posted at the social-networking website... Under the terms of service, Facebook has rights to freely use anything people add to the website even after members delete material or close accounts."Facebook reassures users in wake of service terms change

What will be next? Cats sleeping with dogs? This is the beginning of the apocalypse.

Bank nationalisation gains ground with Republicans

By Edward Luce and Krishna Guha
Published: February 17 2009 19:44 | Last updated: February 18 2009 01:07

Long regarded in the US as a folly of Europeans, nationalisation is gaining rapid acceptance among Washington opinion-formers – and not just with Alan Greenspan, former Federal Reserve chairman. Perhaps stranger still, many of those talking about nationalising banks are Republicans.

Lindsey Graham, the Republican senator for South Carolina, says that many of his colleagues, including John McCain, the defeated presidential candidate, agree with his view that nationalisation of some banks should be “on the table”.

hey Jas,
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aJ8Vj6_tL1eA

Federal Reserve St. Loius calling for outright money printing:

“By expanding the monetary base at an appropriate rate, the FOMC can signal that it intends to avoid the risk of further deflation and the possibility of a deflation trap,” Bullard said in prepared remarks to the New York Association for Business Economics.

Now you really should consider selling your bonds- as I predicted they would eventually start using the ability to make money out of thin air and support prices.

Someday this war's gonna end...

Dang the post isn loading:

Nooooo, instead of housing, which is clearly doomed, companies need to start targting iresponsiible upper class and flogging them guitars, services for the kids, for a brighter tomorrow:

soccer
ballet
expressionist dance
puppets and interpretation
intro civics
int geograpgy
int spelling
basic arab street
basic chicago street
maybe something abour history, altho I wouldn't take it that seriously, whateves.

Oh, the mathy thing too.

C

[I think even a peace-monger like Obama knows that you got to try hard leave something stable in place that won;t degrade like Afgansitan has multiple times.
bobn ]

You O'Drama-pologists crack me up. Really. Can't do anything wrong. Wait till the soup lines are a mile long and see how many 'mericans show up for his silly endless barnstormin'(campaign) rallies. The ones that do might have something other than admiration that drives them. Give it a coupla months.

It's not a joke. They're trying to make it look like an endorsement from Obama.
rich | 02.17.09 - 11:07 pm | #

Wingnut Astroturf?

All this talk about "excess" supply misses the point that real issue is elastic demand. The need people have for housing, cars, and most things can change dramatically due to sentiment.

The same production that might be completely in line with demand one day can become a glut of over-production the next when customers re-assess their needs.
Sniglet | 02.17.09 - 11:18 pm | #

The other thing that screws everything up is 'fixed cost capacity' and 'variable cost capacity'... if a firm has pursued a high fixed cost [think automation & capital intensive] operation... it might be brutally efficient and 'low cost' at high demand rates but if demand drops below the break even - they go broke real fast. That is th econcept of 'operational leverage' every mfg guys knows.

The reverse is to have less capital and less fixed cost but then generally have higher variable cost inputs [think labor]. At high demand these guys can't compete on price UNLESS low cost variable inputs are used [offshoring to low labor rate areas]. But in low demand periods these operations [assuming they have survived the high demand period] are MORE profitable... their break evens point is a lot lower.

That is where we are now - punishing the operations w/ high fixed cost & high operational leverage in favor of the operations who have lower break even points event though there aren't enough of them out there. Companies like GM & Ford are trying to push their break even down FAST by cutting overhead & white collar. They are probably too late.

If I have a bitch w/ the way economics is taught it is that too few have studied the 'micro econ' world in enough detail... in some cases you can predict the forest by surveying some trees.

"Has everybody forgotten about the war we a waging in Iraq?"

Do you still consider that a 'war'?

"There's no overcapacity. This blog is (good) but in this case CRAP CRAP CRAP."

In many cases - forest products, for one example - plants are simply shut down, bringing supply back in line with demand and keeping the price high. However, the overcapacity still exists in the form of an idle factory. If demand starts to ramp up again, supply can rise to meet it, but not necessarily at a good profit.