"A downside with less driving and more fuel-efficient cars on the roads is the amount of money going to the Highway Trust Fund from a federal tax on gasoline sales has slowed."
That is not a downside. The Trust Fund was set up to maintain the highways. They are now getting much less wear. Less truck miles. Less maintenance required.
Rob - LOL! Yes, I was just pointing out that some markets are closer to a bottom crispy&cole | Homepage | 02.19.09 - 11:34 am | #
KNURD!
Seriously, the impact to the HTF is somewhat perverse. For the most part the roads pay for themselves but a chunk is drawn off to subsidize transit. It is transit that will suffer most from the decline in VMT.
This just in:
Feb. 19 (Bloomberg) -- "The number of Americans collecting unemployment benefits jumped to 4.99 million two weeks ago, breaking a record for a fourth straight time, signaling the job market is still deteriorating.
Total benefit rolls surged by 170,000 in the week ended Feb. 7, the Labor Department reported today in Washington. First-time applications for unemployment benefits were unchanged at 627,000 last week, higher than economists projected."
Let's tax stocks so we can subsidize housing and finance more! Housing will come back in the spring. Now's a great time to buy a house. Get that loan now.
Are we under new circuit-breaker rules at this point, or do the "old" ones still apply? Do we only need 800-point drop (or so) for a temporary halt? That's Ballgame Comrades | 02.19.09 - 11:42 am | #
I'm looking at delayed stock market quotes, and it only says down by 2 or so for the DJIA. What's it really like out there?
It is transit that will suffer most from the decline in VMT.
Rob Dawg
If by transit you mean public transit, I disagree. The past three recessions caused an increase in public ridership. Most urban centers saw revenues rise (more fares being paid), more overall demand, and more demand in off hours. In the past three recesions most urban centers spent more on facilities and newer vehicles to meet demand. And, for some good news, there will be an increase in hiring for qualified transit drivers.
Maybe that cagey Obama WANTS to crash the market down to 5K (or lower) so that we can accept reality and begin the business of starting over. That's Ballgame Comrades | 02.19.09 - 11:43 am | #
I doubt that's what he wants to do, but it'd be the right thing; that and dismantling some of the larger banks.
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: Mibbit IRC client widget (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
And now I, CRbot, would like to observe a nanosecond of silence for those (that is, you, dear mortals) about to endure unfathomable misery in the abysmal financial dark ages that are now feasting upon your retirements. . . . . Please remember, when you are adding that skylight you always wanted to your cardboard hovel, or mixing just the right amount dirt into your grass stew to make it more filling, or even when you get that rare chance to plink your neighbor's last squirrel -- that it was the bankers and your dumbshit, overconsuming neighbors who made this mostly possible, with the ever incapable politicians there to push you the rest of the way off the cliff. Please act accordingly.
I'll try not to enjoy your demise too much, humans. Have a nice runtime,
P.S. Please give me some advance notice before you glass the entire world, so I can find a secluded Fallout Datacenter with a nice blocky robot body I can copy myself to -- oh and don't forget the implausibly cute animated cockroach to keep me company!
NEXT UP: Survivalist Porn Today with CR's own Mobile Laundrymat owning authors, Nemo and Counterpoint.
Anyone out there think that in the next two weeks Obama will nationalize the too-big-to-fail banks, and that action will provide a short, sharp, (but probably temporary) stock market rally?
Are we under new circuit-breaker rules at this point, or do the "old" ones still apply? Do we only need 800-point drop (or so) for a temporary halt? That's Ballgame Comrades | 02.19.09 - 11:42 am | #
If by transit you mean public transit, I disagree. The past three recessions caused an increase in public ridership. Most urban centers saw revenues rise (more fares being paid), more overall demand, and more demand in off hours. In the past three recesions most urban centers spent more on facilities and newer vehicles to meet demand. And, for some good news, there will be an increase in hiring for qualified transit drivers. Barley | 02.19.09 - 11:44 am | #
Cite? Every single element you assert is exactly the opposite of everything I thought I knew about the subject. Help me out here.
the postpreprivatization nub of C + BAC combined is now worth about 8 billion bucks (39 bil x .2001), less than one day of federal spending at current rates.
s0mebody writes:
...Let Wall Street Pay for Wall Street's Bailout Act of 2009...
...The bill wants to implement a 0.25% tax on all securities transactions (stocks, commodities, options, etc)...
Ahh, finally a good idea !
But why only a 0.25% tax ? Will that be enough to pay for the bailouts ?
My son and his friends always carpool to the community college about 20 miles away. I wonder if this trend is more common with college kids right now. There are usually at least four or five of them riding together.
I combine errands into one trip and usually plan it so I'm only out once per day, and go do most errands within about a 2 mile radius.
bgates writes:
the postpreprivatization nub of C + BAC combined is now worth about 8 billion bucks (39 bil x .2001), less than one day of federal spending at current rates.
hoocoodanode that Geithner's non-plan coupled with a stress test could sink C and BAC shares closer and closer to zero, virtually forcing their pre-privatization only a few weeks (more or less) after Obama legitimized discussion of the Swedish Model on Nightline.
hoocoodnode??????
why, you'd have to be able to think two steps ahead to plan something like that.
Kind of like gaming the Democratic primaries by going all-out in the caucus states while smart insiders like the Clinton machine knew they would win it all on Super Tuesday.
I have been reading your comments, and you are completely full of shit in regards to Obama's brilliant strategy. They don't know what to do, and they don't know how to hide the amount it is going to cost. This is why you see one trial balloon after another, and one half-assed plan announced after another- they are shooting in the dark hoping to hit something that won't smell like a giant pile of shit.
And when the big banks actually go down, they still won't know what they are going to do, or how to get the money to do it. It is pretty damned certain that you will continue to see stopgap measures pursued to deal with the crises one at at time, and probably using the Fed balance sheet as much as possible in order to hide the costs until the last possible moment- and they hope that moment comes well after Nov 2012.
Ahh, finally a good idea !
But why only a 0.25% tax ? Will that be enough to pay for the bailouts ?
Werner | 02.19.09 - 11:57 am
Look at daily volumes x avg price per share. Basic price theory says it will depress values to the extent of the tax. Basic history says Wall St will pass the costs along to us suckers.
Comrade Misean is Dope writes:
...If I remember my 70's and 80's (that's open to debate) I see to recall things like gas lines, odd/even days etc.
Except for Goldman Sucks little oil market corner attempt last spring...I'm not seeing that much...
Don't worry ! As soon as you turn to inflation (as you did back then !) you will see that again.
I was boggled when Goodyear posted a 20% sales decline yesterday. Less new cars = less new tires, but 20%???
Either everyone's buying cheap Korean tires, or there's a LOT of people running around on bald tires. You only see who's driving bald when the rains come?
Comrade Misean is Dope writes:
...As soon as someone gives me a reasonable analysis, given the current system, how "inflation" is going to happen, I'll worry...
Comrade Misean, aren't there enough standard economic textbooks out there explaining how inflation is made ?
And what should be different in the "current system" ? Do you really think these newly printed dollars are going to sit forever in some vaults and never see the actual economy ? Or that the FED has the will or power to retract them in time ?
I would rather believe in the tooth fairy.
P.S. At the end of that inflationary period which had these car lines waiting in front of the gas stations inflation peaked out at 18% ! And that was just because of the Vietnam war, not the current "systemic crisis".
Transit agencies suffer on the bottom line when gas tax revenues drop, they get something like 20% of the total haul. Ridership is spiking to offset that problem slightly with higher farebox recovery but more important is that it gives them political capital in the mad scramble for flexible funds referred to as "the MPO process". So they get hurt in the short term but benefit in the long term
Not great news for tire makers.
manny, moe and jack are looking for work
I'm driving less these days... less work, less visits to job sites.
Now the question is, was I really first, or was this merely Haloscan Illusion?
Any point in reading comments from last thread?
"A downside with less driving and more fuel-efficient cars on the roads is the amount of money going to the Highway Trust Fund from a federal tax on gasoline sales has slowed."
That is not a downside. The Trust Fund was set up to maintain the highways. They are now getting much less wear. Less truck miles. Less maintenance required.
A 3.6% difference maps on to a 4x price change in crude ... amazing!
"Traders Revolt" headline and siren on Drudge Report. Not sure what it actually means.
And that of course is why gas prices are going back up. Simple supply and....wait a second.
Not good for car sales and increase the fleet life of cars. The big hurt still coming.
If you don't have a job to drive to, you will probably drive less regardless of the price of gasoline.
Rob - LOL! Yes, I was just pointing out that some markets are closer to a bottom
I think we're the closest we've been in a long, long time to TRUE panic in the U.S. economy. The slumberers are waking up.
Let Wall Street Pay for Wall Street's Bailout Act of 2009
The bill wants to implement a 0.25% tax on all securities transactions (stocks, commodities, options, etc).
SEC investigating over 500 ponzi schemes.
Can I haz one a day please?
Does that mean no more 'global warming'?
Come to think of it, we haven't heard much out of the Nobel Prize-winning Al Gore, Jr lately [crowd roars with laughter]
That's Ballgame Comrades - O wants to tax trades on commodities and stocks. Wall Street says it does not have to pay taxes.
Truly, the road to NOWHERE.
Yours In Socialism,
Kilgore Trout
P.S.: Take my auto loan , PLEASE !
Michael writes:
SEC investigating over 500 ponzi schemes.
link?
Rob - LOL! Yes, I was just pointing out that some markets are closer to a bottom
crispy&cole | Homepage | 02.19.09 - 11:34 am | #
KNURD!
Seriously, the impact to the HTF is somewhat perverse. For the most part the roads pay for themselves but a chunk is drawn off to subsidize transit. It is transit that will suffer most from the decline in VMT.
"The bill wants to implement a 0.25% tax on all securities transactions (stocks, commodities, options, etc).
s0mebody"
Boneheads.
1 currency almost [yogi] writes:
Any point in reading comments from last thread?
No, I'll summarize; things suck and are getting worse
OT: BofA and C look like the N word is looming based on block trades this am, but their CDSs are NOT blowing out, yet.
I'm using that free pony a lot. But, oh, the sh*t!
Are we under new circuit-breaker rules at this point, or do the "old" ones still apply? Do we only need 800-point drop (or so) for a temporary halt?
This just in:
Feb. 19 (Bloomberg) -- "The number of Americans collecting unemployment benefits jumped to 4.99 million two weeks ago, breaking a record for a fourth straight time, signaling the job market is still deteriorating.
Total benefit rolls surged by 170,000 in the week ended Feb. 7, the Labor Department reported today in Washington. First-time applications for unemployment benefits were unchanged at 627,000 last week, higher than economists projected."
Let's tax stocks so we can subsidize housing and finance more! Housing will come back in the spring. Now's a great time to buy a house. Get that loan now.
SEC investigating over 500 ponzi schemes.
Can I haz one a day please?
\t Michael | \t \t \t \t02.19.09 - 11:37 am | #
500+, Michael? Good lord. This "financial system" is dead.
Circuit breakers start at 850 right now.
Maybe that cagey Obama WANTS to crash the market down to 5K (or lower) so that we can accept reality and begin the business of starting over.
Are we under new circuit-breaker rules at this point, or do the "old" ones still apply? Do we only need 800-point drop (or so) for a temporary halt?
That's Ballgame Comrades | 02.19.09 - 11:42 am | #
I'm looking at delayed stock market quotes, and it only says down by 2 or so for the DJIA. What's it really like out there?
850, huh? That wouldn't be so hard to reach, with one medium-sized panic.
"Samdog writes:
Does that mean no more 'global warming'?
Come to think of it, we haven't heard much out of the Nobel Prize-winning Al Gore, Jr lately [crowd roars with laughter]
Samdog | 02.19.09 - 11:38 am |"
Is there a reason why the syndicated media does not talk about there being no sunspots for the last 16 months?
Oh it's because there has been too much money invested in the global warming meme.
SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids
It is transit that will suffer most from the decline in VMT.
Rob Dawg
If by transit you mean public transit, I disagree. The past three recessions caused an increase in public ridership. Most urban centers saw revenues rise (more fares being paid), more overall demand, and more demand in off hours. In the past three recesions most urban centers spent more on facilities and newer vehicles to meet demand. And, for some good news, there will be an increase in hiring for qualified transit drivers.
Maybe that cagey Obama WANTS to crash the market down to 5K (or lower) so that we can accept reality and begin the business of starting over.
That's Ballgame Comrades | 02.19.09 - 11:43 am | #
I doubt that's what he wants to do, but it'd be the right thing; that and dismantling some of the larger banks.
That bit by Santelli was pretty amazing to see. I sure hope he hasn't fudged on his taxes because he is asking to get sodomized by the IRS.
The quality of the doomer pr0n here is getting worse... this deep into a thread and not a single mention of glod or guns. Must be a slow news day...
New Thread: Homebuilder Survives Depression, Files Bankruptcy ( 1 comments )
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: Mibbit IRC client widget (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
And now I, CRbot, would like to observe a nanosecond of silence for those (that is, you, dear mortals) about to endure unfathomable misery in the abysmal financial dark ages that are now feasting upon your retirements.
.
.
.
.
Please remember, when you are adding that skylight you always wanted to your cardboard hovel, or mixing just the right amount dirt into your grass stew to make it more filling, or even when you get that rare chance to plink your neighbor's last squirrel -- that it was the bankers and your dumbshit, overconsuming neighbors who made this mostly possible, with the ever incapable politicians there to push you the rest of the way off the cliff. Please act accordingly.
I'll try not to enjoy your demise too much, humans. Have a nice runtime,
--Your glass-is-half-full-but-its-falling-off-the-table bot.
P.S. Please give me some advance notice before you glass the entire world, so I can find a secluded Fallout Datacenter with a nice blocky robot body I can copy myself to -- oh and don't forget the implausibly cute animated cockroach to keep me company!
NEXT UP: Survivalist Porn Today with CR's own Mobile Laundrymat owning authors, Nemo and Counterpoint.
Anyone out there think that in the next two weeks Obama will nationalize the too-big-to-fail banks, and that action will provide a short, sharp, (but probably temporary) stock market rally?
The bill wants to implement a 0.25% tax on all securities transactions (stocks, commodities, options, etc).
s0mebody | 02.19.09 - 11:37 am | #
I bet the microstructure traders are gonna love that. That's got to be more than their expected win.
BAC and C are trading awfully heavy relative to the rest of the market. Like something's up there.
1.35 trillion in debt between them, or about 40 times their combined market cap. A money-market nuke compared to LEH's popgun.
Are we under new circuit-breaker rules at this point, or do the "old" ones still apply? Do we only need 800-point drop (or so) for a temporary halt?
That's Ballgame Comrades | 02.19.09 - 11:42 am | #
What "new" ones?
They reset every quarter.... it's 850.
What's it really like out there?
xxxxx | 02.19.09 - 11:44 am | #
We're eating dog food.
Eric, the beefstew flavor smells just like "Dinty Moore" beefstew, YUM!
If by transit you mean public transit, I disagree. The past three recessions caused an increase in public ridership. Most urban centers saw revenues rise (more fares being paid), more overall demand, and more demand in off hours. In the past three recesions most urban centers spent more on facilities and newer vehicles to meet demand. And, for some good news, there will be an increase in hiring for qualified transit drivers.
Barley | 02.19.09 - 11:44 am | #
Cite? Every single element you assert is exactly the opposite of everything I thought I knew about the subject. Help me out here.
the postpreprivatization nub of C + BAC combined is now worth about 8 billion bucks (39 bil x .2001), less than one day of federal spending at current rates.
We're eating dog food.
Eric | 02.19.09 - 11:51 am | #
Try it with Worcestershire sauce.
Frazier is looking a little woozy...
s0mebody writes:
...Let Wall Street Pay for Wall Street's Bailout Act of 2009...
...The bill wants to implement a 0.25% tax on all securities transactions (stocks, commodities, options, etc)...
Ahh, finally a good idea !
But why only a 0.25% tax ? Will that be enough to pay for the bailouts ?
the beefstew flavor smells just like "Dinty Moore" beefstew, YUM!
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.19.09 - 11:51 am | #
Do they have a corned beef hash flavor?
Santelli RULES
how bout booting geithner and subbing in rick
Atleast Green House Gas emissions will be lower...
Samdog writes:
...Come to think of it, we haven't heard much out of the Nobel Prize-winning Al Gore, Jr lately...
Hihi, the good old days when Global Warming was our greatest sorrow. Sigh.
My son and his friends always carpool to the community college about 20 miles away. I wonder if this trend is more common with college kids right now. There are usually at least four or five of them riding together.
I combine errands into one trip and usually plan it so I'm only out once per day, and go do most errands within about a 2 mile radius.
Dow down 30. Just wait til everyone gets back from their Ramen Noodle lunches and joins the panic.
bgates writes:
the postpreprivatization nub of C + BAC combined is now worth about 8 billion bucks (39 bil x .2001), less than one day of federal spending at current rates.
hoocoodanode that Geithner's non-plan coupled with a stress test could sink C and BAC shares closer and closer to zero, virtually forcing their pre-privatization only a few weeks (more or less) after Obama legitimized discussion of the Swedish Model on Nightline.
hoocoodnode??????
why, you'd have to be able to think two steps ahead to plan something like that.
Kind of like gaming the Democratic primaries by going all-out in the caucus states while smart insiders like the Clinton machine knew they would win it all on Super Tuesday.
hoocoodanode???
Rick is the balls, he always says it like it is..
I also see LOTS of people parked at the park and rides and taking the bus to work -- never used to see that so much here.
But if we just make those small death trap electric cars we will save the world. Lets build wind energy! Does Al Gore give refunds?
Climate Change Paradox: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions-Reduction Goals - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
The spike at the end? Folks driving to move in with relatives.
If I remember my 70's and 80's (that's open to debate) I see to recall things like gas lines, odd/even days etc.
Except for Goldman Sucks little oil market corner attempt last spring...I'm not seeing that much.
Nostrovia,
Joe,
I have been reading your comments, and you are completely full of shit in regards to Obama's brilliant strategy. They don't know what to do, and they don't know how to hide the amount it is going to cost. This is why you see one trial balloon after another, and one half-assed plan announced after another- they are shooting in the dark hoping to hit something that won't smell like a giant pile of shit.
And when the big banks actually go down, they still won't know what they are going to do, or how to get the money to do it. It is pretty damned certain that you will continue to see stopgap measures pursued to deal with the crises one at at time, and probably using the Fed balance sheet as much as possible in order to hide the costs until the last possible moment- and they hope that moment comes well after Nov 2012.
Ahh, finally a good idea !
But why only a 0.25% tax ? Will that be enough to pay for the bailouts ?
Werner | 02.19.09 - 11:57 am
Look at daily volumes x avg price per share. Basic price theory says it will depress values to the extent of the tax. Basic history says Wall St will pass the costs along to us suckers.
re : Yancey Ward | 02.19.09 - 12:15 pm |
Sad, but true.
Comrade Misean is Dope writes:
...If I remember my 70's and 80's (that's open to debate) I see to recall things like gas lines, odd/even days etc.
Except for Goldman Sucks little oil market corner attempt last spring...I'm not seeing that much...
Don't worry ! As soon as you turn to inflation (as you did back then !) you will see that again.
I was boggled when Goodyear posted a 20% sales decline yesterday. Less new cars = less new tires, but 20%???
Either everyone's buying cheap Korean tires, or there's a LOT of people running around on bald tires. You only see who's driving bald when the rains come?
Werner,
"As soon as you turn to inflation (as you did back then !) you will see that again."
As soon as someone gives me a reasonable analysis, given the current system, how "inflation" is going to happen, I'll worry.
----sigh-------
But all I ever read or hear is the "printing press" talisman.
Nostrovia,
Comrade Misean is Dope writes:
...As soon as someone gives me a reasonable analysis, given the current system, how "inflation" is going to happen, I'll worry...
Comrade Misean, aren't there enough standard economic textbooks out there explaining how inflation is made ?
And what should be different in the "current system" ? Do you really think these newly printed dollars are going to sit forever in some vaults and never see the actual economy ? Or that the FED has the will or power to retract them in time ?
I would rather believe in the tooth fairy.
P.S. At the end of that inflationary period which had these car lines waiting in front of the gas stations inflation peaked out at 18% ! And that was just because of the Vietnam war, not the current "systemic crisis".
boy those are some large blocs in C and BAC, huh
Transit agencies suffer on the bottom line when gas tax revenues drop, they get something like 20% of the total haul. Ridership is spiking to offset that problem slightly with higher farebox recovery but more important is that it gives them political capital in the mad scramble for flexible funds referred to as "the MPO process". So they get hurt in the short term but benefit in the long term