This has most likely been posted already, but I didn't see it, so I'll just pass along the gratifying news that Time Magazine named Jim Kramer's blog as one of its five most overrated. I think it may have even used the term "pathetic."
This has most likely been posted already, but I didn't see it, so I'll just pass along the gratifying news that Time Magazine named Jim Kramer's blog as one of its five most overrated. I think it may have even used the term "pathetic." \t Sue (Capital S) | \t \t \t \t02.19.09 - 7:54 pm | # Cramer, sorry!
Feb. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC, seeking $5 billion in additional U.S. aid to avoid liquidation, told the federal government the companys best option remains a merger with General Motors Corp.
"An allusion to the comming of communism in America. Quite good now, but not yet as good as the original."
Werner,
Not coming; it is already here. Wayne Huizenga, a great American entrepreneur and success story, said that what the USG is doing reminds him of "the C word." Crooked Capitalism would make Communism look good! Financial Nazis of America will make the German Nazis look good!!
We are #1 in breeding Crooks. Crooks are unveiled when the tide goes out! And the tide has stated to recede.
1971, university life, I watched the Kappa's step, I watched the Omega's step, later in life I watched the movie with Charlie Sheen and Lawrence (don't call me Larry Fishburne) step. This is not a step. Let alone a step in the right direction.
"Does anyone think that the public is going to go for face value reduction of mortgages for millions of borrowers as Roubini suggests?"
Nades,
I suggest legislative obfuscation of the first order.
If Obama seriously wants to write-down principal, he needs to bury it in a tax-credit scheme like they [used to do; still do] for restoring historical landmark buildings. Make the tax credit available for anyone and everyone who invests in mortgage loans/MBS pools -- so it sounds egalitarian -- until you read the fine print and discover that only accredited investors or those in the highest tax brackets can participate.
Bottom line: write off my next-door neighbor's mortgage debt, but make it eye-crossingly/mind-numbingly difficult for me to discover what you did there.
Zandi pulls out the "if this is not done, YOU will be worse off because your home will go down in value and you will not have access to that "equity". I have news for you Mr. Zandi, many people do not use thier homes as ATM's and do not need artificial propping up of assets. Consider the case of Aluminum:
"Although aluminium is one of the most commonly occurring elements on Earth, before the invention of the Hall-Héroult process, it was initially found to be exceedingly difficult to extract from its various ores. This made the little available pure aluminium which had been discovered (or refined at great expense) more valuable than gold. Bars of aluminium were exhibited alongside the French crown jewels at the Exposition Universelle of 1855, and Napoleon III was said to have reserved a set of aluminium dinner plates for his most honored guests. Additionally, the pyramidal top to the Washington Monument is made of pure aluminium. At the time of the monument's construction, aluminium was as expensive as silver. Over time, however, the price of the metal has dropped; the invention of the Hall-Héroult process caused the high price of aluminium to permanently collapse."
Now what do you think happened to all the aluminum jewelry makers? What about the shipping industry and mining for pure aluminum? Gone. Busted. This no doubt had a huge effect on asset prices across the board. Did the world end?
You know it did not silly, we are still here! The industry changed and moved on. That is it. That is all. By my highly scientific calculations I have figured that if the US government had wanted to prop up aluminum prices over all this time at the old price, it would cost exactly 15 penta-tetra-gigbyte-trillion dollars to have done it (yes I corrected for inflation!). Not even helicopter Bernanke has a ship that big! Sometimes things change.
Besides rhe world did not end the last big home bubble bust (1989-1992) either. This is economic terrorism using fear tactics.
You know, principal gets written down with short sales and foreclosures.
My favorite is to give people writedowns, but ask for community service in exchange. There is everything from road cleaning to tutoring, to cooking for the poor to be done. One day a per week for a couple of years sounds like plenty. If your schedule allows, do all 100 days during summer break, etc.
--
"$1776 dollars invested in a c/d in 1997 @6.5% would be worth $3,874"
crispy&cole,
The UST STRIPS that I bought in my IRA in August of 1997 for $27.3K closed at $75K. I bought that after I was finished arguing with a dope at Cisco about "the virtual wealth machine" that the Scam Options scheme, used by Cisco, was for everyone.
Roubini and Shiller are the most dissapointing economists to me because they were both way ahead of the game in seeing the current mess, but when they got a ton of TV time they became bailout pumpers which does not jibe with their previous positions.
We're trying to ween off our 1.2 year old from the teet. It's not easy. It's still much easier than what the weening Wallstreet from Tarp and the Fed's teet will be like.
It may be that they are good at detecting the mess, but not so good at figuring out how to fix it. lawyerliz | 02.19.09 - 8:27 pm | #
I think at this point they dont know what happens next either... Inflation, deflation, USD up, USD down, Chinas next move, Japans, the health of the EU....
No one seems to know how this plays out...... except Jas but I'd prefer democracy to a dictator any day so I ignore that riot stuff...
I thought this was interesting from AtC ............................................................................. HSBC on PPI \t\t\t\tFebruary 19th, 2009 10:08 am \t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\t* Both headline PPI and core PPI rose more than expected in January. Headline PPI rose 0.8% (consensus +0.3%), but this mainly reflected a 15% increase in the gasoline PPI, after massive declines in previous months. Headline PPI excluding gasoline rose 0.2%, with finished foods (-0.4%) down for the second month in a row
* The core PPI rise of 0.4% (consensus 0.1%) is more interesting, as the increase was fairly broad-based. Passenger cars (0.3%) and light truck (0.5%) prices increased, but this still leaves the core PPI ex-autos at 0.4%. Some notable increases included aircraft (+1%), sporting goods (+4.2%), toys (7.2%), and prescriptions (+1.1%)
* The y/y core PPI has remained surprisingly firm, edging down to 4.2% from 4.3% in December. Finished consumer goods prices in the PPI are still up 4.3% from a year ago. This contrasts notably with the core CPI, where the year-on-year rate has slowed to 1.8% after flat outcomes over the past three months
* This suggests that consumer-facing retailers are seeing direct pressure to discount their prices, while manufacturers have been able to protect their margins to some extent. In the end, we expect that manufacturers will also have to cut their prices, but they have been able to resist these declines so far
Jas Jain writes:
...Werner, Not coming; it is already here...
I know Jas, but it's 2am in Germany and my allegorical phantasy is a bit lacking now (It's time for me to go to bed).
But certainly, I do know who the largest american mortgage operator is, who the largest american insurance company is, possibly soon the largest american car manufacturer, etc.
As I said in another post the other day : Looking at America, Marx is probably in danger to die of laughter in his grave.
As a German I am a bit loath to accuse Americans as being Nazis, that's better left to non-Germans to speak out. But I did once make the remark that I always thought Joseph Goebbels was long dead but now he seems to have a job at Bloomberg.
well, they still stand out relatively well against the dopes in other countries.
One of russian mutual fund managers had a drink on national TV, toasting "RIP Ru stock market circa 08." He did it after the loss of 87% & public disclosure blaming one of his managers who just couple years prior was a plumber and all his credentials were 4 week investment course. Now we can as well bring forward the 7 bl rogue trader fiasco, etc.
Some Investor Guy writes:
You know, principal gets written down with short sales and foreclosures.
My favorite is to give people writedowns, but ask for community service in exchange. There is everything from road cleaning to tutoring, to cooking for the poor to be done. One day a per week for a couple of years sounds like plenty. If your schedule allows, do all 100 days during summer break, etc.
I like this idea.
The other thing we need to do is verify that they have a medical hardship or have lost their job.
You can only collect unemployment if you have been fired or laid off, right?
This would keep the money from going to those who quit their job in order to qualify.
--
Born-and-bred American dopes don't understand the role Merchants of Debt, in particular, and moneybags, in general, from London and NYC, played in giving rise to Soviet Communism and later Nazis to power in Germany. Nazism, as ugly as it was, was a reaction. Americas illegal entry into the WW I played a role too.
THE USG IS CONTROLLED BY MERCHANTS OF DEBT. No?
Merchants of Debt have also been Merchants of Deaths. In America and most of the world the deaths would occur as a result of political upheaval during the coming Greater Depression. The cause is known. My estimate of deaths from the global mayhem is 600,000,000 (8-10% of the world population). Sorry, if people dont like to hear what I see as probable.
Son of a moneylender who understood the abusive and oppressive nature of money lending,
Does anyone think we are ever gonna see a market capitulation day during this debacle? We came close in Nov but to me it feels more like we've been falling in slow motion for the last year.
You will never see the bottom when everyone is looking for one. I am a "tech bust" baby and even today I have no idea what the Nasdaq is at as I never even look. When nobody wants to talk about bottoms and nobody is afraid to catch the next leg up, that is when you may have a bottom.
He expects the housing slump to last at least another year, with home sales bottoming out later this year and construction activity hitting a low in the first half of 2008.
Home prices, which have been flat or declining in many once-booming areas, should bottom out in the second half of next year with price declines about 10 percent off their peak, he said.
AP IMPACT: Jobless hit with bank fees on benefits
Christopher Leonard, Ap Business Writer Thu Feb 19, 5:00 pm ET
First, Arthur Santa-Maria called Bank of America to ask how to check the balance of his new unemployment benefits debit card. The bank charged him 50 cents.
He chose not to complain. That would have cost another 50 cents.
So he took out some of the money and then decided to pull out the rest. But that made two withdrawals on the same day, and that was $1.50.
For hundreds of thousands of workers losing their jobs during the recession, there's a new twist to their financial pain: Even when they're collecting unemployment benefits, they're paying the bank just to get the money or even to call customer service to complain about it. Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
Interesting times, gotta tell ya, if you nurse past 12 months, you are pretty much committed for the whole next year! It actually makes living with a toddler easier in my experience . . .
It definitely takes more than 12 months to get off the government teat!
--
"But I did once make the remark that I always thought Joseph Goebbels was long dead but now he seems to have a job at Bloomberg."
Werner,
I am sure that you already know that Joe got the ideas about propaganda from Americans. He studied American propaganda and applied it. At least Nazis were honest about propaganda. Wasn't Joe's dept named ministry of propaganda or something like that after Nazis came to power?
American ruling elite are the father of modern mass propaganda to dope the public. No wonder that born-and-bred Americans are the most thoroughly doped people on the planet today. They are so perfectly doped that they don't even know that they are dopes! German Nazis were amateurs in propaganda compared to todays Financial Nazis of America. Anyone disagrees?
But "buy nothing day," happens a lot around my place. I'm obviously doing my part to hurt unneeded retail. I order as much as I can by tubes, to reduce the amount of taxes headed to my state coffers. Since a local amendment passed which guarantees a percent of sales tax to "the arts," I stopped my donations to the regional theater. My charitable donations have gone up, but in the form of donated food to the shelter/banks, rather than trackable checks. I've withdrawn much of my money from the bank, and found a nice "mattress equivalent."
I've stopped my emails and calls to my local reps. They haven't been listening, and now, I feel it's too late to reverse course. I've also lost faith in this current system of governance, and will opt out until a viable option that I can believe in develops.
I have hung an American flag outside my door since my first home. Proudly. It's still there and I love my country. It's our government that betrayed us. We'll survive these times, but my disgust at what's going on will likely last my lifetime, and be imparted onto my children.
If you give people handouts and fix their problems for them, you impoverish them. If you give people opportunity and hold them accountable for fixing their own problems, you make them wealthy.
The former involves being "kind" and short-sighted; the latter involves being "harsh" but prescient.
The government we have today is an institution of human degradation. The people in this country are capable of enduring and overcoming vastly more than we're given credit for. The state of being "protected" from using your own merits to fend off the tyranny of reality is the direst form of poverty.
Our government cannot give us wealth - they can only give us poverty. Our government cannot take away poverty - they can only take away wealth.
To put it another way:
Government can only know their role, and do their job as well as they possibly can. The rest is up to us - not them.
Government can do literally nothing to make a nation of free individuals wealthy. They can only do things to make that nation poor.
"I have hung an American flag outside my door since my first home. Proudly. It's still there and I love my country. It's our government that betrayed us. We'll survive these times, but my disgust at what's going on will likely last my lifetime, and be imparted onto my children."
We are the government....so we've betrayed ourselves.. it's not like the country didn't vote for this... this country decided to live this way 30 years ago and has pretty much consistently voted for the types of policies that have wrecked this country for the last 30 years
be mad at yourself and your neighbor and me.. we are the govt
"Government can only know their role, and do their job as well as they possibly can. The rest is up to us - not them.
Government can do literally nothing to make a nation of free individuals wealthy. They can only do things to make that nation poor."
That's an absolute pile of horseshit...
Try getting rid of public education and see how well this country does....
Public education created scientists that put a man on the fucking moon
--
Futures are down. Looks like the Scam Market wants to make new lows and close at new lows tomorrow.
The former stock market was turned into the present-day Scam Market by Financial Nazis of America in 1995, with Scam Options non-accounting, and that was the rise to power of Financial Nazis of America. They have never looked back. They successfully, and easily!, turned born-and-bred American dopes into Scam Lovers. Breeding dopes for decades was essential precondition for the tech bubble and the housing bubble during 1996-2007. Of course, American tools were exported and exploited elsewhere.
"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" - Johnny Rotten
It's interesting to look back upon those days. When the stock market was finally seen as accessible and even necessary for the average person. Invest in the country, invest in the economy. Mutual funds, ETF's, investment clubs, 401K, 529b, Roths, DRIPs, dollar cost averaging, Funds of Funds, Hedges, derivatives. And the hard news that social security wouldn't be there someday pushed everybody that could into the pool. Tech bubbles, real estate bubbles.
And it's all gone. The delta under the curve has been spirited away, and everybody is still watching the last of it go, hoping it's all a bad dream.
On the quote up front : 14 January 1978, during the Sex Pistols final date at the Winterland Ballroom in San Francisco, Johnny Rotten addressed the audience directly"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?
this country decided to live this way 30 years ago and has pretty much consistently voted for the types of policies that have wrecked this country for the last 30 years
I'm a twentysomething. I was born into this.
Public education created scientists that put a man on the fucking moon
Science existed long before the public education system. I side with ac.
"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
Ayan Rand
All,
options expiration is tomorrow and i FULLY EXPECT some trick by the FED/Treasury. Either suspension of mark to market or some other lending facility acronym will be announced around noon to save a weekend swoon. I am a poet and i didnt even know it!
Index options expire at the opening price tomorrow morning. They need a 5 minutes before the open announcement. Then even if it isn't that great a plan in the end, the reaction and confusion for that 5 minutes will at least pump the market.
All this bla bla bla about education spending is refuted by the real fact that in India/China kids in about 4th grade can do calculus on slates using chalk. I could not do calculus in collge with a graphing calculator and a tutor. Money will not fix education, only better teachers, better parents, etc you know the drill.
JJL writes: "Roubini and Shiller are the most dissapointing economists to me because they were both way ahead of the game in seeing the current mess, but when they got a ton of TV time they became bailout pumpers which does not jibe with their previous positions."
I agree completely!!
Interesting Times: LOL, just do it before the tot approaches 24mos or you'll really have a heck of a time.
"All this bla bla bla about education spending is refuted by the real fact that in India/China kids in about 4th grade can do calculus on slates using chalk. I could not do calculus in collge with a graphing calculator and a tutor. Money will not fix education, only better teachers, better parents, etc you know the drill."
While I agree with you in principle... remember that they basically give free college educations to everyone
The problem with our education system isn't the teachers.. it's the god damn overpaid administrators and the education industry...
Like why does any school need new math textbooks every other year?
remember, right after the 1929 crash and well into the 1930's all the biggest bankers and multi millionaires (when a million was a ton of money) were buying stocks to promote "confidence". About 20 years later they were even.
If you want to see the result of that philosophy take a look at what happened to brazil... or what's happened to mexico."
Neither Brazil nor Mexico have followed her philosophy in the last 40 years prior to late 90's.
Both Brazil & Mexico have followed so called "POPULISM" strategy, which made them fall behind compared to so called asian tiger club of countries. And Latin America did have better starting opportunities.
--
"Government can do literally nothing to make a nation of free individuals wealthy"
ac,
A govt can do a lot in making few individuals very wealthy by helping breed well-trained economic slaves that most college trained Americans are. I give the USG A+!
Would born-and-bred American economic slaves please raise your hand? Thanks, you may lower it now. "Free individuals," my foot. Denial and delusion.
"Both Brazil & Mexico have followed so called "POPULISM" strategy, which made them fall behind compared to so called asian tiger club of countries. And Latin America did have better starting opportunities."
Not what's happening now.. but what put them there in the first place.
Jeebus, just came out of hours of a meeting between trading and risk boys (advised term, rare exceptions), and while it was formal and professional, here's the fictional bar-room translation, with that which could have been said bracketed:
Chairman (CH) - I'm delighted we've had this most excellent opportunity to have a free and frank discussion on both trading and risk today. I want to keep it informal, and offer a mutually beneficial channel of candor between the two interest sets - both of course are equally valuable and contribute to that balance between profitability and avoiding unnecessary downside risk. (We all know we don't want to be here, but were told we had to update you on the balance sheet and projections going forward (christ on a stick, must remain serious, they'll smell the fear))
Lead Trading dudes (LTD): here's a long series of incredibly complex slides which we are talking very fast to and using every bit of jargon we know and some attempts at humor and metaphor (without exposing the date and time of the data grab, nor its veracity, and the metphors just suck, we know)
Projections dudes (PRO): all a bit uncertain, here's some lines, some shaded bits from 2011-2015. Different colored line up here, and another color down there, but don't worry about that one cos it's an anomaly and won't happen again. (jeez was slide 25 fast enough, sh!t sh! sh!t)
CH - rich and comprehensive, thanks team, timely too (if you ever include slide 25 again I'm going to kick your fkn ass to Mars). The floor is now open for the other divisions to provide their much-needed input in this crisis (oh sh!t he's here, I thought he had a cold, and that ambitious btch junior of his, here we go)
Risk Management team (various, RMT) - yeah thanks, looks like you could have worked more thoroughly (skrood up) in a bunch of areas, overs/unders really don't provide clarity (save you at all), and an an exit strategy from some risk is not obvious (where's the unwind from some of this sh!tpile, and can you just not do it again, asshats?)
LTD - well, we've got a madate (ahole), from the Board remember to innovate, seek opportunities and/
RMT - Indeed (yeah, far out, what the fkn hell were they doing) innovate but not impair the balance sheet (destroy, I mean look at some of this sh!t, how are you provisioning for bond issues, lending, staying within the capital buffer? Who is Mr or Mrs ALM Price here, since we need a total picture?) as it's critical to our ongoing operations (If you have any, numb nuts).
CH - (c'mon sh!head) We like to think with our broad range of products and services we are certainly not a boutique, we're a conglomerate, so we have diversified risk and products, and will weather this storm well (how do you think any one person could have oversight here, it's a disaster, please, can we kick this out til my retirement?).
RTM - Indeed, I understand you implicitly and we and Audit will have many many many future meetings in this constructive vein. (You've gotten away with this so far, but we're gonna make damned sure we send a flurry of RM snowflakes to SMG to have you indicted)
CH: Ok, meeting adjourned, have a productive day. Trade well, within the risk threshholds. (I'm sure that sh!tbag doesn't pay nanny taxes).
"Not what's happening now.. but what put them there in the first place."
The populism, a blunt government interference to re-distribute incomes without evaluation of consequences, that's what put them into the hole more than 40 years ago.
The culture of entitlement took place there after WW2., and was abused by most of the political parties from the left to the right, etc.
WOWZA rob dawg, I am a molecular biologist (DNA manipulation) and I have no idea hwat those things are! JJL | Homepage | 02.19.09 - 9:19 pm | #
Used to do that stuff when designing composite structures subject dynamic aero loads. Aside, I've got some senior scientist type friends at Amgen who model your efforts. Cool stuff.
As a German I am a bit loath to accuse Americans as being Nazis, that's better left to non-Germans to speak out. But I did once make the remark that I always thought Joseph Goebbels was long dead but now he seems to have a job at Bloomberg.
Werner
Truly despicable..Jaswant and Werner, a pair of moral cretins.
American ruling elite are the father of modern mass propaganda to dope the public. No wonder that born-and-bred Americans are the most thoroughly doped people on the planet today. They are so perfectly doped that they don't even know that they are dopes! German Nazis were amateurs in propaganda compared to todays Financial Nazis of America. Anyone disagrees?
Jas
Jas: Change a few words here and there and you could be Ivan Illich reincarnated.
Since we are talking math.. my favorite course in college was analog systems and signal analysis.. for some reason I really loved fourier and laplace transforms
All this bla bla bla about education spending is refuted by the real fact that in India/China kids in about 4th grade can do calculus on slates using chalk.
I hear you. In this country we're having arguments about whether or not evolution should be taught in school. Who needs calculus or evolution, when we've got baby Jeebus. Just give every kid a bible and a diploma, and send them out into the world. Look at our leaders like Bush & Palin, they didn't need no calculus.
I make medicines, very little math. JJL | Homepage | 02.19.09 - 9:29 pm | #
You think those four fold protein binding site graphics show up on the screen without math? Don't get me wrong, you do a very complex and important job but there is a lot of math you stand upon in order to see as far as you do.
Ok Communist Manifesto. What is the architecture that he lays out in that book? Nothing. It is yet another critique of the system in effect at the time. But the Soviet Union that was Marx right? lol
Evidently the video was not that hot, as this thread has wandered way off course. And my buffering tweaks don't seem to help. Time for a faster connection and a new computer, I suspect.
Why does that whole thing seem like a contrived stunt? Do you think CNBC has figured out the doubble bottom, mustard seeded, off the days lows, are over?
"Ok Communist Manifesto. What is the architecture that he lays out in that book? Nothing. It is yet another critique of the system in effect at the time. But the Soviet Union that was Marx right? lol"
Not at all... the "communist" countries were/are simply dictatorships with a different name on the front.
I'm probalby giving marx short shrift.. I do remember doing a report on the communist manifesto in high school and finding it quite interesting
Bank debt trades at distressed levels
By Nicole Bullock and Aline van Duyn in New York
Published: February 20 2009 00:58 |
Citigroup and other large, troubled financial institutions came under pressure in credit markets on Thursday as investors considered the possibility of nationalisations.
Under such a scenario, equity investors are likely to be wiped out concerns that were on Thursday reflected in sharp falls in bank shares.
[snip]
Christopher Whalen, managing director at Institutional Risk Analytics, said he expected continued weak performance at Citi to result in losses for bondholders, which have been protected in other financial crises. Washington will finally be forced to have an adult conversation with the global community as to how much we haircut the bondholders, Mr Whalen said.
Some investors still expected bondholders would not have to take any losses, even in a nationalisation, because US officials would be too afraid of triggering a repeat of the collapse of the global credit markets that followed the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers last year, when bondholders lost billions of dollars.
If the debt is impaired and you see what constitutes default, it would be worse than Lehman because Citigroup and Bank of America are much larger institutions than Lehman, and they have their tentacles in more places, said Jason Brady, a portfolio manager at Thormburg Investment Management, which owns bonds in both companies.
The cost of default protection on Citi debt rose to the highest level since last November, the second time the US government pumped cash into the bank. A rise in this cost is an indication of heightened default risk in the credit derivatives market. For BofA, credit default swaps hit a record high, according to CMA Datavision. FT.com / Companies / Banks - Bank debt trades at distressed levels
As much as I despise un-science, I suspect it has more to do with trophies for everyone, we are all winners now, why didn't little Jonny get an A? ~Blackhalo
Yeah, maybe you're right. I blame libruls. They're responsible for this I think:
'2/17/09
Thursday marked the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin's birthday. Celebrating the father of evolution, Gallup released a poll asking folks if they believed in evolution or were undecided. The results were interesting.
Of those polled, less than four out of 10 said they believed in evolution. About 36 percent were undecided, while about a quarter didn't believe in evolution at all.'
Global Top 10 Dumped Stocks
1 Transocean Inc (RIG) stock was completely DUMPED by 688 funds.
2 Anheuser-Busch Cos Inc (BUD) stock was completely DUMPED by 666 funds.
3 Wm Wrigley Jr Co (WWY) stock was completely DUMPED by 419 funds.
4 American International Gr ... (AIG) stock was completely DUMPED by 359 funds.
5 Barr Pharmaceuticals Inc (BRL) stock was completely DUMPED by 326 funds.
6 Invitrogen Corp (IVGN) stock was completely DUMPED by 317 funds. 7 Goldman Sachs Group Incthe (GS) stock was completely DUMPED by 294 funds.
8 Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc (LEH) stock was completely DUMPED by 280 funds.
9 Freeport-Mcmoran Copper A ... (FCX) stock was completely DUMPED by 274 funds.
10 Wachovia Corp (WB) stock was completely DUMPED by 265 funds.
--
"Public education created scientists that put a man on the fucking moon Jesus"
Born and Bred American Dope,
Public education was good when America was mostly good. We had a different over class back then.
The rot began some time in 1960s when the schools were politicized beginning with the school prayer issue. As I grew up in India, for two years I went to a school funded by Jains (Jains in the area are financially better off) and we began the school day with a Hindu prayer because majority of the students were non-Jains. We even had Rajputs from meat-eating families (Jains are vegetarians) in our boarding house and they were subsidized just like Jain kids.
In many respects there is lot more intolerance in America compared to a caste Indian society that I grew up when I was young (I grew up in one of the most independent and traditional Indian culture compared to 99%+ of the Indians in America).
Financial Nazis of America set out to destroy the American culture, in order to profit from it, and they have succeeded. They are evil.
Will that other stuff last through 12th grade?
reptillian | 02.19.09 - 9:23 pm | #
Not for some!
But the bell curve, as it applies to IQ distribution, also applies to residents of the Indian subcontinent. Only those in the 95th percentile will absorb any of that 'stuff'. However, when your population exceeds one billion, math is on your side in more ways than one.
I am not sure how you get Liberalism out of that. It was not 9 mos. ago that I was reading in the economist about how business had to learn to carter to the sensiblilties of generation, "Why?" Well any gen Y grad hitting the job market today is about to learn real fast about survival of the fittest.
I'm probalby giving marx short shrift.. I do remember doing a report on the communist manifesto in high school and finding it quite interesting
Born and Bred American Dope | 02.19.09 - 9:39 pm | #
Also the "Critique of the Gotha Programme" and the " Grundrisse."
"Paradise Lost writes:
Bob Powell: If you're on this thread still...Michael's "classic Delphi Technique" is really another person's "common sense". Useless discussin' it with 'im, 'cause he's got none.
Paradise Lost | 02.19.09 - 2:45 pm |
Bob Powell writes:
Paradise Lost, you're correct. It's "Useless discussin' it". Ideology is powerful and holds him in chains.
Bob Powell | Homepage | 02.19.09 - 3:23 pm |"
Classic Delphi attack from previous thread. why aren't these guys regular posters? Did someone here alert the BO squad?
"nadir" from wiki. : 'the nadir at a given point is the local vertical direction pointing in the direction of the force of gravity at that location. The direction opposite of the nadir is the zenith.'
Nadir is a vague term to apply in this situation. Because...the root destruction to this economy is a lack of demand, brought about by an absence of demand in the face of over borrowing. A demand correction is the effect. The root cause of the correction is a false economy.
Until the gravity of a real economy sets in - or is discovered - the real nadir of that which points to the gravity of a real economy cannot be present..and therefor not accounted for.
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: Mibbit IRC client widget (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
And now I, CRbot, would like to observe a nanosecond of silence for those (that is, you, dear mortals) about to endure unfathomable misery in the abysmal financial dark ages that are now feasting upon your retirements. . . . . Please remember, when you are adding that skylight you always wanted to your cardboard hovel, or mixing just the right amount dirt into your grass stew to make it more filling, or even when you get that rare chance to plink your neighbor's last squirrel -- that it was the bankers and your dumbshit, overconsuming neighbors who made this mostly possible, with the ever incapable politicians there to push you the rest of the way off the cliff. Please act accordingly.
I'll try not to enjoy your demise too much, humans. Have a nice runtime,
P.S. Please give me some advance notice before you glass the entire world, so I can find a secluded Fallout Datacenter with a nice blocky robot body I can copy myself to -- oh and don't forget the implausibly cute animated cockroach to keep me company!
NEXT UP: Survivalist Porn Today with CR's own Mobile Laundrymat owning authors, Nemo and Counterpoint.
All this bla bla bla about education spending is refuted by the real fact that in India/China kids in about 4th grade can do calculus on slates using chalk....
A bit of an exaggeration re: India/China kids. I am from India and am well award of the educational system there. Let's say calculus in grades 10 to 12 for some students. Also note that in India lots of kids specialise earlier. But your overall point has some merit.
Summary:
"Combined budget gaps for the remainder of this fiscal year and state fiscal years 2010 and 2011 are estimated to total more than $350 billion."
(Article includes tables of state-by-state shortfall estimates).
What plan did Geitner proposed? What is a purpose of stress test? Has not he been NY Fed Governor for years and should be familiar with bank's balance sheets? Is not it a few years late? Paulson had one good idea, TARP. It was created and passed by Congress and it should have been implemented months ago. The only way to have banks saved is removal of mortgage assets from bank's balance sheets.
Pricing is the problem? OK, is it really? SPV (bad bank, whatever) can be created that would buy MBS and CDOs at price currently on balance sheet of banks.
The issue is protection of taxpayers. OK, then give banks back only $.75 on $1 of those assets they put in, they would keep stake for $.25 as interest in SPV and receive income on those assets, less management fees and insurance for guarantees to Feds.
However, taxpayers will be covered for losses by that $.25 of banks' equity.
Banks already written the paper down to between $.35 for MS and $.65 for Citi. Another $.25 protection for taxpayers guarantees loss protection against 60% default with 100% severity.
Why nobody call Roubini to task actually discussing logistics of his bank nationalization proposal? Here are a couple items to discuss:
Citi has $486 billion on bonds and commercial paper out, Bank of America about $425 billion. Nationalization is default for CDS purposes. Anyone is willing to guess what settlement day would look like? Judging by recent Lehman sales, getting $.25 on $1 would be a heaven. Say, another $100 billion in settlements for those who wrote those contracts. Lost income for holders of bonds, etc., another $50 billion per year, give or take $10-$20 billion. Guess who the holders of Citi and BAC preferreds and bonds are? Well, other banks and insurance companies. Oh, we did not know that? How fun! Let nationalize all of them too. And those suckers who bought annuities for retirement? Tough luck, old boys and girls, get in line.
And then I guess after we are all done nationalizing, we may actually have to pay unemployment benefits to about 20% of our (former) work force and thus would have to stiff our good friends in China and Japan on them famous Treasury coupon payments, right? Hey, we got Abraham Lincoln and George Walker Bush in the seas, what do they have?
Let's set another chain of events in motion. Apparently, Lehman's example was not enough?
I call on you, Roubini, provide us some framework on how is it exactly you intend to Swede us all and avoid all of the above?
Nemo?
Lotsa video here lately
So oddly fulfilling!
(I'm a child i guess...)
too sound didnt bite.
Vegas Book writes:
Vegas Book has set tomorrow's BFF over/under at 3.5
Im taking the over.
This has most likely been posted already, but I didn't see it, so I'll just pass along the gratifying news that Time Magazine named Jim Kramer's blog as one of its five most overrated. I think it may have even used the term "pathetic."
This has most likely been posted already, but I didn't see it, so I'll just pass along the gratifying news that Time Magazine named Jim Kramer's blog as one of its five most overrated. I think it may have even used the term "pathetic."
\t Sue (Capital S) | \t \t \t \t02.19.09 - 7:54 pm | #
Cramer, sorry!
Bunch of establishmentarian economists. No surprise there.
Does anyone think that the public is going to go for face value reduction of mortgages for millions of borrowers as Roubini suggests?
I dont see it happening......
--
Propagandists in action.
Jas
Kramer has a blog? He's my favorite contrarian index. Booyah!
Rock on Jas!
We're (almost) all Jas now.
What? What? ROFL.
Feb. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC, seeking $5 billion in additional U.S. aid to avoid liquidation, told the federal government the companys best option remains a merger with General Motors Corp.
She just said "this was the third piece of this stool that came out...."
Freudian slip?
............................
YouTube - aka homecoming stepshow 05
step in the right direction
where's the pithiness, wheres the dissilusionment, wheres the melancholy?
What ever happened to Lugubriousness of the Oligarchs?
VtV LOL
aka homecoming stepshow 05
What was that?
--
From previous thread...
"An allusion to the comming of communism in America. Quite good now, but not yet as good as the original."
Werner,
Not coming; it is already here. Wayne Huizenga, a great American entrepreneur and success story, said that what the USG is doing reminds him of "the C word." Crooked Capitalism would make Communism look good! Financial Nazis of America will make the German Nazis look good!!
We are #1 in breeding Crooks. Crooks are unveiled when the tide goes out! And the tide has stated to recede.
Jas
Nemo is traveling and his monkey does not know how to use his iPhone.
Nemo is traveling and his monkey does not know how to use his iPhone.
Memo | Homepage | 02.19.09 - 8:06 pm | #
LOL! Nice to meet you Memo....
1971, university life, I watched the Kappa's step, I watched the Omega's step, later in life I watched the movie with Charlie Sheen and Lawrence (don't call me Larry Fishburne) step. This is not a step. Let alone a step in the right direction.
And his phone keeps "correcting" his name
--
"Bunch of establishmentarian economists. No surprise there."
Oil Shock,
You are too polite.
Jas
Nemo writes:
And his phone keeps "correcting" his name
You can turn that off.
If the S&P breaks 1776..we go back to April 1997...12 years lost....
American Dopes loves $ cost averaging.
If the S&P breaks 1776..we go back to April 1997...12 years lost....
Jose can you see one nation under water?
CR,will you be posting the names from UBS if and when available? I hope that Cramer,Boner,reid and pelosi are among them...
$1776 dollars invested in a c/d in 1997 @6.5% would be worth $3,874
A bunch of morons.
Financial Nazis of America will make the German Nazis look good!!
Even for Jaswant, this is repulsive. Heads up Werner,
your chance to look good.
$1776 dollars invested in the S&P in 1997 would be worth $1776 dollars, not adjusted for infaltion....
Mutual Funds are for American Dopes!
BAHHAHAHAHA
"Does anyone think that the public is going to go for face value reduction of mortgages for millions of borrowers as Roubini suggests?"
Nades,
I suggest legislative obfuscation of the first order.
If Obama seriously wants to write-down principal, he needs to bury it in a tax-credit scheme like they [used to do; still do] for restoring historical landmark buildings. Make the tax credit available for anyone and everyone who invests in mortgage loans/MBS pools -- so it sounds egalitarian -- until you read the fine print and discover that only accredited investors or those in the highest tax brackets can participate.
Bottom line: write off my next-door neighbor's mortgage debt, but make it eye-crossingly/mind-numbingly difficult for me to discover what you did there.
Jas Jain makes the claim
to have a brain
The size of Mother Theresa's Heart
Werner loves the color brown
he wants to get down
like Opa did, back in the good old days
They both hate the Land of the Free
Jews, and you and me
anything good actually
Got to give credit where credit is due:
You can't call Roubini a "bearded academic moron".
CR: why are you posting Charlie Rose? Are you part of the conspiracy?
In Glod that would be ~$6076...currently...or there abouts.
Nostrovia,
I am sooo glad I learned this stock market is a rigged game...
Jas Jain makes the claim
to have a brain
The size of Mother Theresa's Heart
Jas Jain is a born and bred dope.
Zandi pulls out the "if this is not done, YOU will be worse off because your home will go down in value and you will not have access to that "equity". I have news for you Mr. Zandi, many people do not use thier homes as ATM's and do not need artificial propping up of assets. Consider the case of Aluminum:
"Although aluminium is one of the most commonly occurring elements on Earth, before the invention of the Hall-Héroult process, it was initially found to be exceedingly difficult to extract from its various ores. This made the little available pure aluminium which had been discovered (or refined at great expense) more valuable than gold. Bars of aluminium were exhibited alongside the French crown jewels at the Exposition Universelle of 1855, and Napoleon III was said to have reserved a set of aluminium dinner plates for his most honored guests. Additionally, the pyramidal top to the Washington Monument is made of pure aluminium. At the time of the monument's construction, aluminium was as expensive as silver. Over time, however, the price of the metal has dropped; the invention of the Hall-Héroult process caused the high price of aluminium to permanently collapse."
Now what do you think happened to all the aluminum jewelry makers? What about the shipping industry and mining for pure aluminum? Gone. Busted. This no doubt had a huge effect on asset prices across the board. Did the world end?
You know it did not silly, we are still here! The industry changed and moved on. That is it. That is all. By my highly scientific calculations I have figured that if the US government had wanted to prop up aluminum prices over all this time at the old price, it would cost exactly 15 penta-tetra-gigbyte-trillion dollars to have done it (yes I corrected for inflation!). Not even helicopter Bernanke has a ship that big! Sometimes things change.
Besides rhe world did not end the last big home bubble bust (1989-1992) either. This is economic terrorism using fear tactics.
ac,
He'd need a beard for that.
Nostrovia,
The imbecilic lender left out costs they knew damned well about, and so now my borrower will have to come up with money to close his re-fi.
You know, principal gets written down with short sales and foreclosures.
My favorite is to give people writedowns, but ask for community service in exchange. There is everything from road cleaning to tutoring, to cooking for the poor to be done. One day a per week for a couple of years sounds like plenty. If your schedule allows, do all 100 days during summer break, etc.
crispy&cole(Unrated) writes:
\tI am sooo glad I learned this stock market is a rigged game...
## Late to the game is better than not at all.
--
"$1776 dollars invested in a c/d in 1997 @6.5% would be worth $3,874"
crispy&cole,
The UST STRIPS that I bought in my IRA in August of 1997 for $27.3K closed at $75K. I bought that after I was finished arguing with a dope at Cisco about "the virtual wealth machine" that the Scam Options scheme, used by Cisco, was for everyone.
Jas
I learned way before 1997 and it saved me a lot of pain (lesson learned during the early 90's) former Born and Bred Dope!
18-yr single malt speakin' interesting idea... thanks for the follow up...
this is the most amazing bunch of pasty faced morons ever
Jas - No one but insiders and employees have made money off CSCO, yet some many fools buy that scam companies stock!
Roubini brings up an interesting point (around 35 min). The countries with the highest savings rates are having the biggest contractions.
Not a bad idea investor.
The supervisory costs to make sure they did anything would be prohibitively high tho.
*so
I'm not paying for principal write downs with my tax dollars. I will go on a tax strike.
I hope other Americans will join in for a serious tax protest movement.
Viva Santelli
an "unfair, bitter pill," but the medicine must be swallowed.
Roubini and Shiller are the most dissapointing economists to me because they were both way ahead of the game in seeing the current mess, but when they got a ton of TV time they became bailout pumpers which does not jibe with their previous positions.
The unholy trinity!
at 14:09, nationalization is the topic
It may be that they are good at detecting the mess, but not so good at figuring out how to fix it.
One thing is different from the other.
And it may not be fixable.
We're trying to ween off our 1.2 year old from the teet. It's not easy.
It's still much easier than what the weening Wallstreet from Tarp and the Fed's teet will be like.
lawyerliz,
you are probably right.
Zandi supports a bad bank ...
It may be that they are good at detecting the mess, but not so good at figuring out how to fix it.
lawyerliz | 02.19.09 - 8:27 pm | #
I think at this point they dont know what happens next either... Inflation, deflation, USD up, USD down, Chinas next move, Japans, the health of the EU....
No one seems to know how this plays out...... except Jas but I'd prefer democracy to a dictator any day so I ignore that riot stuff...
..............
"I'm not paying for principal write downs with my tax dollars. I will go on a tax strike."
So bank bailouts were ok.. but principal reductions aren't? Are you retarded?
We should all already be on a tax strike
Zandi thinks losses about 600-700 billion.
Nitey-nite.
I thought this was interesting from AtC
.............................................................................
HSBC on PPI \t\t\t\tFebruary 19th, 2009 10:08 am \t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\t* Both headline PPI and core PPI rose more than expected in January. Headline PPI rose 0.8% (consensus +0.3%), but this mainly reflected a 15% increase in the gasoline PPI, after massive declines in previous months. Headline PPI excluding gasoline rose 0.2%, with finished foods (-0.4%) down for the second month in a row
* The core PPI rise of 0.4% (consensus 0.1%) is more interesting, as the increase was fairly broad-based. Passenger cars (0.3%) and light truck (0.5%) prices increased, but this still leaves the core PPI ex-autos at 0.4%. Some notable increases included aircraft (+1%), sporting goods (+4.2%), toys (7.2%), and prescriptions (+1.1%)
* The y/y core PPI has remained surprisingly firm, edging down to 4.2% from 4.3% in December. Finished consumer goods prices in the PPI are still up 4.3% from a year ago. This contrasts notably with the core CPI, where the year-on-year rate has slowed to 1.8% after flat outcomes over the past three months
* This suggests that consumer-facing retailers are seeing direct pressure to discount their prices, while manufacturers have been able to protect their margins to some extent. In the end, we expect that manufacturers will also have to cut their prices, but they have been able to resist these declines so far
................................................
Jas Jain writes:
...Werner, Not coming; it is already here...
I know Jas, but it's 2am in Germany and my allegorical phantasy is a bit lacking now (It's time for me to go to bed).
But certainly, I do know who the largest american mortgage operator is, who the largest american insurance company is, possibly soon the largest american car manufacturer, etc.
As I said in another post the other day : Looking at America, Marx is probably in danger to die of laughter in his grave.
As a German I am a bit loath to accuse Americans as being Nazis, that's better left to non-Germans to speak out. But I did once make the remark that I always thought Joseph Goebbels was long dead but now he seems to have a job at Bloomberg.
"Mutual Funds are for American Dopes!"
well, they still stand out relatively well against the dopes in other countries.
One of russian mutual fund managers had a drink on national TV, toasting "RIP Ru stock market circa 08." He did it after the loss of 87% & public disclosure blaming one of his managers who just couple years prior was a plumber and all his credentials were 4 week investment course. Now we can as well bring forward the 7 bl rogue trader fiasco, etc.
Geithner a regular guy ... deeply offended by what happened on Wall St ... A public servant his whole career ...
Some Investor Guy
Yup, that's also something to be expected from both history and deduction
The special spice for this time around is that the US has the dominant financial markets across all sectors and only a minority stake in them
First deflation, and later inflation with little middle ground between the two
Some Investor Guy writes:
You know, principal gets written down with short sales and foreclosures.
My favorite is to give people writedowns, but ask for community service in exchange. There is everything from road cleaning to tutoring, to cooking for the poor to be done. One day a per week for a couple of years sounds like plenty. If your schedule allows, do all 100 days during summer break, etc.
I like this idea.
The other thing we need to do is verify that they have a medical hardship or have lost their job.
You can only collect unemployment if you have been fired or laid off, right?
This would keep the money from going to those who quit their job in order to qualify.
--
Born-and-bred American dopes don't understand the role Merchants of Debt, in particular, and moneybags, in general, from London and NYC, played in giving rise to Soviet Communism and later Nazis to power in Germany. Nazism, as ugly as it was, was a reaction. Americas illegal entry into the WW I played a role too.
THE USG IS CONTROLLED BY MERCHANTS OF DEBT. No?
Merchants of Debt have also been Merchants of Deaths. In America and most of the world the deaths would occur as a result of political upheaval during the coming Greater Depression. The cause is known. My estimate of deaths from the global mayhem is 600,000,000 (8-10% of the world population). Sorry, if people dont like to hear what I see as probable.
Son of a moneylender who understood the abusive and oppressive nature of money lending,
Jas
Does anyone think we are ever gonna see a market capitulation day during this debacle? We came close in Nov but to me it feels more like we've been falling in slow motion for the last year.
--
"Mutual Funds are for American Dopes!"
CdC,
I named them Mutual Frauds years ago. Dopes like to be defrauded together!
Jas
Why should we believe Mark Zandi???
This is him at the height of the bubble:
"I do think we will see the market correct," Zandi said. (Ca Market)
Bubble Meter: Mark Zandi On the California's Housing Market
Nades: I see u r an Across the Curve reader/poster. Do you ever play the TBT trade?
You will never see the bottom when everyone is looking for one. I am a "tech bust" baby and even today I have no idea what the Nasdaq is at as I never even look. When nobody wants to talk about bottoms and nobody is afraid to catch the next leg up, that is when you may have a bottom.
JJL writes:
Roubini and Shiller are the most dissapointing economists
JJL,
Ditto here. I loved to read Roubini a couple of years ago ... all the "experts" were trashing his opinion as hopelessly pessimistic.
Then, summer of '07 on: bam, bam, bam ... Roubini's predictions hit right on the money.
Next thing I know--the guy suddenly goes socialist!
What's a girl to do?!
This is what that moron Zandi said in July 2007:
He expects the housing slump to last at least another year, with home sales bottoming out later this year and construction activity hitting a low in the first half of 2008.
Home prices, which have been flat or declining in many once-booming areas, should bottom out in the second half of next year with price declines about 10 percent off their peak, he said.
Investor losses seen in housing slump - USATODAY.com
AP IMPACT: Jobless hit with bank fees on benefits
Christopher Leonard, Ap Business Writer Thu Feb 19, 5:00 pm ET
First, Arthur Santa-Maria called Bank of America to ask how to check the balance of his new unemployment benefits debit card. The bank charged him 50 cents.
He chose not to complain. That would have cost another 50 cents.
So he took out some of the money and then decided to pull out the rest. But that made two withdrawals on the same day, and that was $1.50.
For hundreds of thousands of workers losing their jobs during the recession, there's a new twist to their financial pain: Even when they're collecting unemployment benefits, they're paying the bank just to get the money or even to call customer service to complain about it.
Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
"Next thing I know--the guy suddenly goes socialist! "
The problem is the US is a socialist country.. but only for the rich
I'd prefer socialism for everyone over the current socialism for the rich system.. but I digress
Interesting times, gotta tell ya, if you nurse past 12 months, you are pretty much committed for the whole next year! It actually makes living with a toddler easier in my experience . . .
It definitely takes more than 12 months to get off the government teat!
you can buy a market bottom when the IPO's crank back up, till then its, coin shavers unite, more unemployment for uncle billy.
for the laymen: bank consolidation and liquidations and increasing unemployment.
--
"But I did once make the remark that I always thought Joseph Goebbels was long dead but now he seems to have a job at Bloomberg."
Werner,
I am sure that you already know that Joe got the ideas about propaganda from Americans. He studied American propaganda and applied it. At least Nazis were honest about propaganda. Wasn't Joe's dept named ministry of propaganda or something like that after Nazis came to power?
American ruling elite are the father of modern mass propaganda to dope the public. No wonder that born-and-bred Americans are the most thoroughly doped people on the planet today. They are so perfectly doped that they don't even know that they are dopes! German Nazis were amateurs in propaganda compared to todays Financial Nazis of America. Anyone disagrees?
Jas
Werner,
Thanks for the link from your post on an earlier thread.
My German is a little rusty, but I'm working my way through it. (If nothing else, the graphics are really cool!)
I will pay my taxes, obviously. But grudgingly.
But "buy nothing day," happens a lot around my place. I'm obviously doing my part to hurt unneeded retail. I order as much as I can by tubes, to reduce the amount of taxes headed to my state coffers. Since a local amendment passed which guarantees a percent of sales tax to "the arts," I stopped my donations to the regional theater. My charitable donations have gone up, but in the form of donated food to the shelter/banks, rather than trackable checks. I've withdrawn much of my money from the bank, and found a nice "mattress equivalent."
I've stopped my emails and calls to my local reps. They haven't been listening, and now, I feel it's too late to reverse course. I've also lost faith in this current system of governance, and will opt out until a viable option that I can believe in develops.
I have hung an American flag outside my door since my first home. Proudly. It's still there and I love my country. It's our government that betrayed us. We'll survive these times, but my disgust at what's going on will likely last my lifetime, and be imparted onto my children.
citizen energyecon writes:
AP IMPACT: Jobless hit with bank fees on benefits
Christopher Leonard, Ap Business Writer Thu Feb 19, 5:00 pm ET
First, Arthur Santa-Maria called Bank of America to ask how to check the balance of his new unemployment benefits debit card.
My brother saw someone buying lottery tickets with their unemployment debit card.
Talk about a dope!
BTW, let's get something straight:
If you give people handouts and fix their problems for them, you impoverish them. If you give people opportunity and hold them accountable for fixing their own problems, you make them wealthy.
The former involves being "kind" and short-sighted; the latter involves being "harsh" but prescient.
The government we have today is an institution of human degradation. The people in this country are capable of enduring and overcoming vastly more than we're given credit for. The state of being "protected" from using your own merits to fend off the tyranny of reality is the direst form of poverty.
Our government cannot give us wealth - they can only give us poverty. Our government cannot take away poverty - they can only take away wealth.
To put it another way:
Government can only know their role, and do their job as well as they possibly can. The rest is up to us - not them.
Government can do literally nothing to make a nation of free individuals wealthy. They can only do things to make that nation poor.
Complex computer simulations say it is so.
"I have hung an American flag outside my door since my first home. Proudly. It's still there and I love my country. It's our government that betrayed us. We'll survive these times, but my disgust at what's going on will likely last my lifetime, and be imparted onto my children."
We are the government....so we've betrayed ourselves.. it's not like the country didn't vote for this... this country decided to live this way 30 years ago and has pretty much consistently voted for the types of policies that have wrecked this country for the last 30 years
be mad at yourself and your neighbor and me.. we are the govt
From the last thread: Another TARP visualization, with some GM product involved!
YouTube -
Still with the 'Village' entitlements crap. Rose has a tendency to lead the witness.
Born and Bred American Dope,
Coo yah maya stupa/koon!
Nostrovia,
"Government can only know their role, and do their job as well as they possibly can. The rest is up to us - not them.
Government can do literally nothing to make a nation of free individuals wealthy. They can only do things to make that nation poor."
That's an absolute pile of horseshit...
Try getting rid of public education and see how well this country does....
Public education created scientists that put a man on the fucking moon
Jesus
--
Futures are down. Looks like the Scam Market wants to make new lows and close at new lows tomorrow.
The former stock market was turned into the present-day Scam Market by Financial Nazis of America in 1995, with Scam Options non-accounting, and that was the rise to power of Financial Nazis of America. They have never looked back. They successfully, and easily!, turned born-and-bred American dopes into Scam Lovers. Breeding dopes for decades was essential precondition for the tech bubble and the housing bubble during 1996-2007. Of course, American tools were exported and exploited elsewhere.
Jas
While we are at it.. let's get rid of the public sewage system, fire department, police department, the NIH and all public research
None of that stuff has ever made anyone wealthy.....
I love the free market... but it's just part of the public/private balance
RE: 1997 DOW levels.
"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" - Johnny Rotten
It's interesting to look back upon those days. When the stock market was finally seen as accessible and even necessary for the average person. Invest in the country, invest in the economy. Mutual funds, ETF's, investment clubs, 401K, 529b, Roths, DRIPs, dollar cost averaging, Funds of Funds, Hedges, derivatives. And the hard news that social security wouldn't be there someday pushed everybody that could into the pool. Tech bubbles, real estate bubbles.
And it's all gone. The delta under the curve has been spirited away, and everybody is still watching the last of it go, hoping it's all a bad dream.
On the quote up front : 14 January 1978, during the Sex Pistols final date at the Winterland Ballroom in San Francisco, Johnny Rotten addressed the audience directly"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?
Complex computer simulations say it is so.
ac | 02.19.09 - 8:56 pm | #
Then it must be true.
Government can do literally nothing to make a nation of free individuals wealthy
ac | 02.19.09 - 8:56 pm | #
All fundamental research in universities is funded by the government (or was, before Shrub cut their budgets).
this country decided to live this way 30 years ago and has pretty much consistently voted for the types of policies that have wrecked this country for the last 30 years
I'm a twentysomething. I was born into this.
Public education created scientists that put a man on the fucking moon
Science existed long before the public education system. I side with ac.
""Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"
i would add "_ by yourself?"
I guess i have a bias against entitlement speeches.
"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
Ayan Rand
All,
options expiration is tomorrow and i FULLY EXPECT some trick by the FED/Treasury. Either suspension of mark to market or some other lending facility acronym will be announced around noon to save a weekend swoon. I am a poet and i didnt even know it!
Random gripe department. Google video sucks, especially with buffering, which is why they are killing it. And they nearly killed YouTube, too.
"kuros writes:
"You cannot legislate ......"
Thank you!
JJL,
Index options expire at the opening price tomorrow morning. They need a 5 minutes before the open announcement. Then even if it isn't that great a plan in the end, the reaction and confusion for that 5 minutes will at least pump the market.
All this bla bla bla about education spending is refuted by the real fact that in India/China kids in about 4th grade can do calculus on slates using chalk. I could not do calculus in collge with a graphing calculator and a tutor. Money will not fix education, only better teachers, better parents, etc you know the drill.
Ayn Rand is a fucking idiot..
If you want to see the result of that philosophy take a look at what happened to brazil... or what's happened to mexico.
It's just a pile of bullshit to legitimize the theft of money from the bottom 90%
JJL writes: "Roubini and Shiller are the most dissapointing economists to me because they were both way ahead of the game in seeing the current mess, but when they got a ton of TV time they became bailout pumpers which does not jibe with their previous positions."
I agree completely!!
Interesting Times: LOL, just do it before the tot approaches 24mos or you'll really have a heck of a time.
OT, but interesting (at least to me).
I have been wondering who is buying all of the bank stocks. 406M shares of BAC traded today.
Then I found this:
Bank Of America Corp (BAC)
All of the big names are in there. WTH are they thinking?
My point is simple, any of the extremes are usually turn BAD, very BAD!
Hey Scone
You still there?
"All this bla bla bla about education spending is refuted by the real fact that in India/China kids in about 4th grade can do calculus on slates using chalk. I could not do calculus in collge with a graphing calculator and a tutor. Money will not fix education, only better teachers, better parents, etc you know the drill."
While I agree with you in principle... remember that they basically give free college educations to everyone
The problem with our education system isn't the teachers.. it's the god damn overpaid administrators and the education industry...
Like why does any school need new math textbooks every other year?
If someone does calculus in 4th grade, what do they study in later grades?
re: Johnny Rottton quote. I think they played a total of 4-5 songs, so the quote was a double entendre.
Reptillian: Poetry.
"My point is simple, any of the extremes are usually turn BAD, very BAD!"
+10000
then again Extreme is all based on your point of view
Remember the Obama is a communist and bush is a liberal stuff?
LOL
remember, right after the 1929 crash and well into the 1930's all the biggest bankers and multi millionaires (when a million was a ton of money) were buying stocks to promote "confidence". About 20 years later they were even.
"Ayn Rand is a fucking idiot..
If you want to see the result of that philosophy take a look at what happened to brazil... or what's happened to mexico."
Neither Brazil nor Mexico have followed her philosophy in the last 40 years prior to late 90's.
Both Brazil & Mexico have followed so called "POPULISM" strategy, which made them fall behind compared to so called asian tiger club of countries. And Latin America did have better starting opportunities.
PSgirl | 02.19.09 - 9:10 pm
Very cool site.
--
"Government can do literally nothing to make a nation of free individuals wealthy"
ac,
A govt can do a lot in making few individuals very wealthy by helping breed well-trained economic slaves that most college trained Americans are. I give the USG A+!
Would born-and-bred American economic slaves please raise your hand? Thanks, you may lower it now. "Free individuals," my foot. Denial and delusion.
Jas
"Both Brazil & Mexico have followed so called "POPULISM" strategy, which made them fall behind compared to so called asian tiger club of countries. And Latin America did have better starting opportunities."
Not what's happening now.. but what put them there in the first place.
Massive income and wealth disparity...
Ayn Rand is a fucking idiot..
When I was 12 and 13 I thought she was a genius. Even stayed up to here her speak one night on the radio.
Now, much later. I agree.
Jeebus, just came out of hours of a meeting between trading and risk boys (advised term, rare exceptions), and while it was formal and professional, here's the fictional bar-room translation, with that which could have been said bracketed:
Chairman (CH) - I'm delighted we've had this most excellent opportunity to have a free and frank discussion on both trading and risk today. I want to keep it informal, and offer a mutually beneficial channel of candor between the two interest sets - both of course are equally valuable and contribute to that balance between profitability and avoiding unnecessary downside risk. (We all know we don't want to be here, but were told we had to update you on the balance sheet and projections going forward (christ on a stick, must remain serious, they'll smell the fear))
Lead Trading dudes (LTD): here's a long series of incredibly complex slides which we are talking very fast to and using every bit of jargon we know and some attempts at humor and metaphor (without exposing the date and time of the data grab, nor its veracity, and the metphors just suck, we know)
Projections dudes (PRO): all a bit uncertain, here's some lines, some shaded bits from 2011-2015. Different colored line up here, and another color down there, but don't worry about that one cos it's an anomaly and won't happen again. (jeez was slide 25 fast enough, sh!t sh! sh!t)
CH - rich and comprehensive, thanks team, timely too (if you ever include slide 25 again I'm going to kick your fkn ass to Mars). The floor is now open for the other divisions to provide their much-needed input in this crisis (oh sh!t he's here, I thought he had a cold, and that ambitious btch junior of his, here we go)
Risk Management team (various, RMT) - yeah thanks, looks like you could have worked more thoroughly (skrood up) in a bunch of areas, overs/unders really don't provide clarity (save you at all), and an an exit strategy from some risk is not obvious (where's the unwind from some of this sh!tpile, and can you just not do it again, asshats?)
LTD - well, we've got a madate (ahole), from the Board remember to innovate, seek opportunities and/
RMT - Indeed (yeah, far out, what the fkn hell were they doing) innovate but not impair the balance sheet (destroy, I mean look at some of this sh!t, how are you provisioning for bond issues, lending, staying within the capital buffer? Who is Mr or Mrs ALM Price here, since we need a total picture?) as it's critical to our ongoing operations (If you have any, numb nuts).
CH - (c'mon sh!head) We like to think with our broad range of products and services we are certainly not a boutique, we're a conglomerate, so we have diversified risk and products, and will weather this storm well (how do you think any one person could have oversight here, it's a disaster, please, can we kick this out til my retirement?).
RTM - Indeed, I understand you implicitly and we and Audit will have many many many future meetings in this constructive vein. (You've gotten away with this so far, but we're gonna make damned sure we send a flurry of RM snowflakes to SMG to have you indicted)
CH: Ok, meeting adjourned, have a productive day. Trade well, within the risk threshholds. (I'm sure that sh!tbag doesn't pay nanny taxes).
Ah, the joys
C
Which would give you a better return if purchased when Ronald dumb ass Reagan took office 30 years ago?
30 year/CD/Bond (no risk investment) or S&P 500..??
But, I thought all those tax cuts made investments pay off...cap gains tax cuts, divy tax cut, etc...
If someone does calculus in 4th grade, what do they study in later grades?
\t reptillian | 02.19.09 - 9:12 pm | #
Tensors, field matrix, anisotropic finite elements, ordinal infinites, chaos, discrete, on and on. Why do you ask?
"Not what's happening now.. but what put them there in the first place."
The populism, a blunt government interference to re-distribute incomes without evaluation of consequences, that's what put them into the hole more than 40 years ago.
The culture of entitlement took place there after WW2., and was abused by most of the political parties from the left to the right, etc.
WOWZA rob dawg, I am a molecular biologist (DNA manipulation) and I have no idea hwat those things are!
--
Ayn Rand was a propagandist. She also might have been a "fucking idiot." The woman was all messed up.
Jas
Hey Scone
You still there?
nova
.
"Yes, it is I." Doesn't that sound weird and somehow grammatically wrong these days? "It's me" just-- works.
@C&C
OMG.. is that actually true? So basically the last 30 years have been one giant scam?
Jesus
Does Roubini do anything other than interviews? He seems to be on TV constantly.
WOWZA rob dawg, I am a molecular biologist (DNA manipulation) and I have no idea hwat those things are!
I sell advertising and I don't know what those things are!
I'm being unfair to ayn rand
She's really no dumber than karl marx.. both of them are just extremists who never understood that their ideas wouldn't work due to human nature
Yeah, but "It is I" has the English, gay, urban, ironic twist to it that screams Peoria
Jas Jain writes:
Ayn Rand was a propagandist. She also might have been a "fucking idiot." The woman was all messed up.
Something tells me Ayn Rand didn't exactly get laid a lot.
Rob Dawg writes:
If someone does calculus in 4th grade, what do they study in later grades?
reptillian | 02.19.09 - 9:12 pm | #
Tensors, field matrix, anisotropic finite elements, ordinal infinites, chaos, discrete, on and on. Why do you ask?
Will that other stuff last through 12th grade?
WOWZA rob dawg, I am a molecular biologist (DNA manipulation) and I have no idea hwat those things are!
JJL | Homepage | 02.19.09 - 9:19 pm | #
Used to do that stuff when designing composite structures subject dynamic aero loads. Aside, I've got some senior scientist type friends at Amgen who model your efforts. Cool stuff.
All I know is that when the flux capacitor is not fluxing you have a real issue that presents a "systemic risk"!
As a German I am a bit loath to accuse Americans as being Nazis, that's better left to non-Germans to speak out. But I did once make the remark that I always thought Joseph Goebbels was long dead but now he seems to have a job at Bloomberg.
Werner
Truly despicable..Jaswant and Werner, a pair of moral cretins.
American ruling elite are the father of modern mass propaganda to dope the public. No wonder that born-and-bred Americans are the most thoroughly doped people on the planet today. They are so perfectly doped that they don't even know that they are dopes! German Nazis were amateurs in propaganda compared to todays Financial Nazis of America. Anyone disagrees?
Jas
Jas: Change a few words here and there and you could be Ivan Illich reincarnated.
She's really no dumber than karl marx.. both of them are just extremists who never understood that their ideas wouldn't work due to human nature
You may be over rating AynRand
Yeah, but "It is I" has the English, gay, urban, ironic twist to it that screams Peoria
nova
.
Flyover people (shudder)!
"You may be over rating AynRand"
You probably have me there.. Marx's system may not work.. but his predictions about capitalism seem quite prescient
Will that other stuff last through 12th grade?
\t reptillian | 02.19.09 - 9:23 pm | #
You better hope so seeing as they are what built your bridges and airplanes and hips and medicines.
Ayn Rand and Alan Greenspan had sex; need I say any more?
I make medicines, very little math. You have the bridges and airplanes.
Can you please point me to Marx's writings where he laid out a system?
I thought Ayn was a real freak? She had a habit of inviting undergrads in groups of three to her home for "tea"
Ayn Rand and Alan Greenspan had sex; need I say any more?
\t JJL | Homepage | 02.19.09 - 9:28 pm | #
Yes. Which sex do they share in common?
Since we are talking math.. my favorite course in college was analog systems and signal analysis.. for some reason I really loved fourier and laplace transforms
"Can you please point me to Marx's writings where he laid out a system?"
Communist Manifesto?
All this bla bla bla about education spending is refuted by the real fact that in India/China kids in about 4th grade can do calculus on slates using chalk.
I hear you. In this country we're having arguments about whether or not evolution should be taught in school. Who needs calculus or evolution, when we've got baby Jeebus. Just give every kid a bible and a diploma, and send them out into the world. Look at our leaders like Bush & Palin, they didn't need no calculus.
Yes. Which sex do they share in common?
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.19.09 - 9:29 pm | #
Cosplay?
CNBC POLL on SANTELLI
Rick Santelli's Shout Heard 'Round the World - CNBC
"Look at our leaders like Bush & Palin, they didn't need no calculus."
Come on they are PERFECT examples of a lot of america
Americans love nepotism.. and they love prideful ignorance
I make medicines, very little math.
JJL | Homepage | 02.19.09 - 9:29 pm | #
You think those four fold protein binding site graphics show up on the screen without math? Don't get me wrong, you do a very complex and important job but there is a lot of math you stand upon in order to see as far as you do.
Ok Communist Manifesto. What is the architecture that he lays out in that book? Nothing. It is yet another critique of the system in effect at the time. But the Soviet Union that was Marx right? lol
whether or not evolution should be taught in school.
eastah | 02.19.09 - 9:31 pm | #
As much as I despise un-science, I suspect it has more to do with trophies for everyone, we are all winners now, why didn't little Jonny get an A?
why am I having visions of They walk among us?
*Rick santelli vote map.
40267 responses
Yes
88%
No
10%
Not Sure
2.1%
Re : CNBC Poll
88% Favor the tea party.
All I want to know is how many undergrads will be there?
India/China kids in about 4th grade can do calculus on slates using chalk
ok great...they can be the next breed of derivatives traders...after the current batch is buried.
LOL.. So I just did some more reading on Ayn Rand.
She thought evolution was "only a theory"..
Sounds like a lot of her idiot admirers.
I wonder how she felt about gravity.. also "only a theory"
Evidently the video was not that hot, as this thread has wandered way off course. And my buffering tweaks don't seem to help. Time for a faster connection and a new computer, I suspect.
CNBC POLL on SANTELLI
2im | 02.19.09 - 9:31 pm | #
"God Bless Rick Santelli!"
Why does that whole thing seem like a contrived stunt? Do you think CNBC has figured out the doubble bottom, mustard seeded, off the days lows, are over?
"Ok Communist Manifesto. What is the architecture that he lays out in that book? Nothing. It is yet another critique of the system in effect at the time. But the Soviet Union that was Marx right? lol"
Not at all... the "communist" countries were/are simply dictatorships with a different name on the front.
I'm probalby giving marx short shrift.. I do remember doing a report on the communist manifesto in high school and finding it quite interesting
She thought evolution was "only a theory"..
It's Theory of evolution, and Law of gravity.
You don't understand those terms of art.
dryfly, you out there?
Iron Range seeing effects. Bad times for outstate MN have returned. 590 jobs cut at Minntac mine (U.S. Steel) which is 1/2 that workforce.
Iron Range Loses 590 Jobs At Minntac - wcco.com
Bank debt trades at distressed levels
By Nicole Bullock and Aline van Duyn in New York
Published: February 20 2009 00:58 |
Citigroup and other large, troubled financial institutions came under pressure in credit markets on Thursday as investors considered the possibility of nationalisations.
Under such a scenario, equity investors are likely to be wiped out concerns that were on Thursday reflected in sharp falls in bank shares.
[snip]
Christopher Whalen, managing director at Institutional Risk Analytics, said he expected continued weak performance at Citi to result in losses for bondholders, which have been protected in other financial crises. Washington will finally be forced to have an adult conversation with the global community as to how much we haircut the bondholders, Mr Whalen said.
Some investors still expected bondholders would not have to take any losses, even in a nationalisation, because US officials would be too afraid of triggering a repeat of the collapse of the global credit markets that followed the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers last year, when bondholders lost billions of dollars.
If the debt is impaired and you see what constitutes default, it would be worse than Lehman because Citigroup and Bank of America are much larger institutions than Lehman, and they have their tentacles in more places, said Jason Brady, a portfolio manager at Thormburg Investment Management, which owns bonds in both companies.
The cost of default protection on Citi debt rose to the highest level since last November, the second time the US government pumped cash into the bank. A rise in this cost is an indication of heightened default risk in the credit derivatives market. For BofA, credit default swaps hit a record high, according to CMA Datavision.
FT.com / Companies / Banks - Bank debt trades at distressed levels
"It's Theory of evolution, and Law of gravity.
You don't understand those terms of art."
LOL
Actually I should have said "Theory of gravitation"
You don't actually think that a law is somehow a proven theory do you?
All I want to know is how many undergrads will be there?
Interesting Times | 02.19.09 - 9:36 pm | #
Me, I want to know how many MBA's who are carrying a load of student loans and are headed for Asst. Mgr of the Buy More, will be there.
S&P futures cracking...hello 1997...
"Me, I want to know how many MBA's who are carrying a load of student loans and are headed for Asst. Mgr of the Buy More"
They're hiring?!?! BRB.
Nostrovia,
S&P futures cracking...hello 1997...
crispy&cole | 02.19.09 - 9:41 pm | #
Kermit's just off gettin some from Miss Piggy. He'll be back for op-ex.
As much as I despise un-science, I suspect it has more to do with trophies for everyone, we are all winners now, why didn't little Jonny get an A? ~Blackhalo
Yeah, maybe you're right. I blame libruls. They're responsible for this I think:
'2/17/09
Thursday marked the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin's birthday. Celebrating the father of evolution, Gallup released a poll asking folks if they believed in evolution or were undecided. The results were interesting.
Of those polled, less than four out of 10 said they believed in evolution. About 36 percent were undecided, while about a quarter didn't believe in evolution at all.'
Damn trophies.
PSgirl
That is an interesting site - here is a list of the ten most dumped stocks (not sure which day this week) - viz number 7...
Mffais Rankings Global ALL TOP-10-DUMPED-STOCKS
Global Top 10 Dumped Stocks
1 Transocean Inc (RIG) stock was completely DUMPED by 688 funds.
2 Anheuser-Busch Cos Inc (BUD) stock was completely DUMPED by 666 funds.
3 Wm Wrigley Jr Co (WWY) stock was completely DUMPED by 419 funds.
4 American International Gr ... (AIG) stock was completely DUMPED by 359 funds.
5 Barr Pharmaceuticals Inc (BRL) stock was completely DUMPED by 326 funds.
6 Invitrogen Corp (IVGN) stock was completely DUMPED by 317 funds.
7 Goldman Sachs Group Incthe (GS) stock was completely DUMPED by 294 funds.
8 Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc (LEH) stock was completely DUMPED by 280 funds.
9 Freeport-Mcmoran Copper A ... (FCX) stock was completely DUMPED by 274 funds.
10 Wachovia Corp (WB) stock was completely DUMPED by 265 funds.
Yes. Which sex do they share in common?
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.19.09 - 9:29 pm | #
Ewww.... Which one is the trannie?
we have seen the subprime vomit.
let us now witness the Alt-A and CRE oily flatulence.
--
"Public education created scientists that put a man on the fucking moon Jesus"
Born and Bred American Dope,
Public education was good when America was mostly good. We had a different over class back then.
The rot began some time in 1960s when the schools were politicized beginning with the school prayer issue. As I grew up in India, for two years I went to a school funded by Jains (Jains in the area are financially better off) and we began the school day with a Hindu prayer because majority of the students were non-Jains. We even had Rajputs from meat-eating families (Jains are vegetarians) in our boarding house and they were subsidized just like Jain kids.
In many respects there is lot more intolerance in America compared to a caste Indian society that I grew up when I was young (I grew up in one of the most independent and traditional Indian culture compared to 99%+ of the Indians in America).
Financial Nazis of America set out to destroy the American culture, in order to profit from it, and they have succeeded. They are evil.
Jas
"I'm probalby giving marx short shrift.. I do remember doing a report on the communist manifesto in high school and finding it quite interesting"
Fair enough. Apologies, I was just giving you a hard time. The Rand and Marx comparison was hard to take.
Will that other stuff last through 12th grade?
reptillian | 02.19.09 - 9:23 pm | #
Not for some!
But the bell curve, as it applies to IQ distribution, also applies to residents of the Indian subcontinent. Only those in the 95th percentile will absorb any of that 'stuff'. However, when your population exceeds one billion, math is on your side in more ways than one.
Damn tautology.
Nostrovia,
2/17/09
eastah | 02.19.09 - 9:43 pm | #
I am not sure how you get Liberalism out of that. It was not 9 mos. ago that I was reading in the economist about how business had to learn to carter to the sensiblilties of generation, "Why?" Well any gen Y grad hitting the job market today is about to learn real fast about survival of the fittest.
Did anyone other than me notice that Jas, and Werner, working in tandem, can empty a thread faster than a fart in a elevator?
"Fair enough. Apologies, I was just giving you a hard time. The Rand and Marx comparison was hard to take."
Yeah that was a stupid thing to say
I'm probalby giving marx short shrift.. I do remember doing a report on the communist manifesto in high school and finding it quite interesting
Born and Bred American Dope | 02.19.09 - 9:39 pm | #
Also the "Critique of the Gotha Programme" and the " Grundrisse."
deep long dated out of the money shorts on all moral hazard short covering rally OPEX friday....
smoking crater and bond sell-off into the close....
dollar rally, sovereign default, and the birth of a candy crapping unicorn. (thats my dream on the Naked Capitalism antidote du jour)
iv'e obviously said too much already.
"Paradise Lost writes:
Bob Powell: If you're on this thread still...Michael's "classic Delphi Technique" is really another person's "common sense". Useless discussin' it with 'im, 'cause he's got none.
Paradise Lost | 02.19.09 - 2:45 pm |
Bob Powell writes:
Paradise Lost, you're correct. It's "Useless discussin' it". Ideology is powerful and holds him in chains.
Bob Powell | Homepage | 02.19.09 - 3:23 pm |"
Classic Delphi attack from previous thread. why aren't these guys regular posters? Did someone here alert the BO squad?
"Fair enough. Apologies, I was just giving you a hard time. The Rand and Marx comparison was hard to take."
Yeah that was really stupid and I take that back.. my brain is tired tonight
Santelli all day and Jas all night...
Gimmie a few minutes and I'll have the mp3 ready
Does anyone here have a link to the replay of Stiglitz forum at Columbia GSB today?
Thanks in advance
"nadir" from wiki. : 'the nadir at a given point is the local vertical direction pointing in the direction of the force of gravity at that location. The direction opposite of the nadir is the zenith.'
Nadir is a vague term to apply in this situation. Because...the root destruction to this economy is a lack of demand, brought about by an absence of demand in the face of over borrowing. A demand correction is the effect. The root cause of the correction is a false economy.
Until the gravity of a real economy sets in - or is discovered - the real nadir of that which points to the gravity of a real economy cannot be present..and therefor not accounted for.
so many bot's so few Crbots.
Sounds like a lot of her idiot admirers.
I wonder how she felt about gravity.. also "only a theory"
Born and Bred American Dope | 02.19.09 - 9:37 pm | #
Newtonian?
Fredrick Mishkin: Columbia University
Nina Easton: Fortune Magazine
Nuff said.
Who was that guy fro Moodys?
2im writes:
CNBC POLL on SANTELLI
Rick Santelli's Shout Heard 'Round the World - CNBC
2im | 02.19.09 - 9:31 pm |
I'd like to see a teamup with the Ron Paul Boston Tea Party folks.
New Thread: Federal Reserve Assets Starting to Increase Again ( 226 comments )
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: Mibbit IRC client widget (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
And now I, CRbot, would like to observe a nanosecond of silence for those (that is, you, dear mortals) about to endure unfathomable misery in the abysmal financial dark ages that are now feasting upon your retirements.
.
.
.
.
Please remember, when you are adding that skylight you always wanted to your cardboard hovel, or mixing just the right amount dirt into your grass stew to make it more filling, or even when you get that rare chance to plink your neighbor's last squirrel -- that it was the bankers and your dumbshit, overconsuming neighbors who made this mostly possible, with the ever incapable politicians there to push you the rest of the way off the cliff. Please act accordingly.
I'll try not to enjoy your demise too much, humans. Have a nice runtime,
--Your glass-is-half-full-but-its-falling-off-the-table bot.
P.S. Please give me some advance notice before you glass the entire world, so I can find a secluded Fallout Datacenter with a nice blocky robot body I can copy myself to -- oh and don't forget the implausibly cute animated cockroach to keep me company!
NEXT UP: Survivalist Porn Today with CR's own Mobile Laundrymat owning authors, Nemo and Counterpoint.
2009 Word of the Year: Prescient
In many respects there is lot more intolerance in America compared to a caste Indian society that I grew up"
There is no need to be tolerant of a Nazi sympathizer...you are a moral cretin and a failure as a human being.
All this bla bla bla about education spending is refuted by the real fact that in India/China kids in about 4th grade can do calculus on slates using chalk....
A bit of an exaggeration re: India/China kids. I am from India and am well award of the educational system there. Let's say calculus in grades 10 to 12 for some students. Also note that in India lots of kids specialise earlier. But your overall point has some merit.
Sorry, my previous post should read aware of the educational rather tha award of the educational...
That's what happens when one forgets the preview option.
Roubini is too optimistic.
Dense piece on State Budget Shortfalls:
Recession Continues to Batter State Budgets; State Responses Could Slow Recovery — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
Summary:
"Combined budget gaps for the remainder of this fiscal year and state fiscal years 2010 and 2011 are estimated to total more than $350 billion."
(Article includes tables of state-by-state shortfall estimates).
More negativity porn, eh, CR?
What plan did Geitner proposed? What is a purpose of stress test? Has not he been NY Fed Governor for years and should be familiar with bank's balance sheets? Is not it a few years late? Paulson had one good idea, TARP. It was created and passed by Congress and it should have been implemented months ago. The only way to have banks saved is removal of mortgage assets from bank's balance sheets.
Pricing is the problem? OK, is it really? SPV (bad bank, whatever) can be created that would buy MBS and CDOs at price currently on balance sheet of banks.
The issue is protection of taxpayers. OK, then give banks back only $.75 on $1 of those assets they put in, they would keep stake for $.25 as interest in SPV and receive income on those assets, less management fees and insurance for guarantees to Feds.
However, taxpayers will be covered for losses by that $.25 of banks' equity.
Banks already written the paper down to between $.35 for MS and $.65 for Citi. Another $.25 protection for taxpayers guarantees loss protection against 60% default with 100% severity.
Who can tell me why this would not work?
Why nobody call Roubini to task actually discussing logistics of his bank nationalization proposal? Here are a couple items to discuss:
Citi has $486 billion on bonds and commercial paper out, Bank of America about $425 billion. Nationalization is default for CDS purposes. Anyone is willing to guess what settlement day would look like? Judging by recent Lehman sales, getting $.25 on $1 would be a heaven. Say, another $100 billion in settlements for those who wrote those contracts. Lost income for holders of bonds, etc., another $50 billion per year, give or take $10-$20 billion. Guess who the holders of Citi and BAC preferreds and bonds are? Well, other banks and insurance companies. Oh, we did not know that? How fun! Let nationalize all of them too. And those suckers who bought annuities for retirement? Tough luck, old boys and girls, get in line.
And then I guess after we are all done nationalizing, we may actually have to pay unemployment benefits to about 20% of our (former) work force and thus would have to stiff our good friends in China and Japan on them famous Treasury coupon payments, right? Hey, we got Abraham Lincoln and George Walker Bush in the seas, what do they have?
Let's set another chain of events in motion. Apparently, Lehman's example was not enough?
I call on you, Roubini, provide us some framework on how is it exactly you intend to Swede us all and avoid all of the above?
Nina says, "It's telling that this was the third piece of the stool to come out."
Best Freudian slip of the week?
So, I finally finish reading the comments and Nades beats me to the observation by 10 hours.
I'm bright enough to be a banker.
18-yr single malt, a highland single malt or a lowland?
And Congress was heard to say to the homeowner: We will huff and we will puff until we blow your house down.
An excerpt from the 3 Little Greedy pigs
Michael LittleBig
@2-20-09
Who was the right wing loon?
Everyone else calls him Ric Mishkin???