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Yawn
Is it Bank Failure Friday already?
PANIC !!!!
F5 Trumps PERL, yes, the over-under line is probably 3 banks today ...
I suspect many readers will take the over.
best to all.
Bottom line: great big chunks of Big Shitpile arent "impaired," or "illiquid," or "distressed," theyre worthless, now and forever unless the peak real estate values of the bubble can miraculously be restored.
So I called FIDO about an alternative to FDLXX (which is closed). I hate FDRXX here, since it has BAC and C debt.
Perky lady says "You know FDRXX is insured under the TARP, right".
I say: "Well, only for holdings as of some date in Sept, right"?
She says: "True.... let me check for you....."
I have a HUGE chuck of change in FDRXX right now, as an aside......
She comes back: "Oh.... you only had 57 cents in there on Sept 19th.... I guess you're not covered".
That was good for a hearty laugh...... (I had moved to FDLXX when that other fund broke the buck).
More cliff diving today ...
BofA off 18%
Citi off 22%
Wells Fargo off 18%
As Curly was wont to say in "City Slickers;" "Day ain't over yet."
So if I go close out my BoA account, they'll try to give me the money in a money order or cashier's check, yes?
A BofA cashier's check?
Who'll cash it?
Energy and heavy industry taking a beating too.
C
Just a matter of time until preprivatization!
Banks are like potato chips; you can't just nationalize one.
I score all the cliff dives 9.5. As usual, the Russian Judge is not to be trusted.
If Santelli was a man of action, he'd start a Chicago Iced Tea Party...
(and get old Finn from Law and Order SVU to dust of his mad rap skillz)
F5 Trumps PERL
Calculated Risk | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 12:24 pm | #
LOL!
I score all the cliff dives 9.5. As usual, the Russian Judge is not to be trusted.
Angry Saver | 02.20.09 - 12:27 pm | #
From now on the Russian judge does whatever the Chinese judge tells him.
from after the cr bot on the last thread:
I know most here disagree, but I think Sen Dodd protesteth too much....
remember when GWB said he didn't want war???? they never want war, they just start them from time to time.
Obama really doesn't want nationalization, and he is struggling mightily to rescue the financial system without it . . . .but along the way he has legitimized nationalization as a solution, hasn't denounced it or taken it off the table, and every action that he has taken has contributed to the pressure on C and BAC, etc, plunging their shares toward zero.
GWB said he was giving the UN inspectors a chance.
Obama is giving the stress testers and private capital a chance.
In the market, private capital seems to be betting on bankruptcy today.
Hoocoodanode?
"So if I go close out my BoA account, they'll try to give me the money in a money order or cashier's check, yes?
A BofA cashier's check?
Who'll cash it?"
So you're saying it might have problems cashing out my BofA CD coming due next week?
Damn, 6 months ago I put money in BofA cause it was too big to fail.
The US in effect has declared economic war on Switzerland and apparently wishes to crush its economy. Sweeping away bank secrecy would finish off Swiss banks and with them the Swiss economy. Not funny in Zurich, I expect.
yes, the over-under line is probably 3 banks today ...
Love it! We need more gambling to jump start our casino eCONomy.
From prev:
Denninger today has a theory it's money moving out of US big time.
Markar
Hasn't that been going on for a while now?
SIDNEY, Neb. (AP) -- Outdoor sports and equipment retailer Cabela's Inc. said Thursday its fourth-quarter profit slid 12 percent but the company still beat Wall Street estimates due to strong sales of firearms.
Hasn't that been going on for a while now?
WACConomics | 02.20.09 - 12:30 pm | #
LOL! something to the tune of a billion plus a day....
1 currency almost [yogi] writes:
otishertz(Excellent) writes:
calculated risk bookmark deleted.
otishertz
Rob Dawg is otishertz?
merciless, Pissed off in California, depositors don't have too worry. The checks will be good. The CDs will be good. No worries.
best to all
F5 Trumps PERL, yes, the over-under line is probably 3 banks today ...
Does C count for 5+ banks?
Look.... how many times do we have to go over this? Your money in BoA & C & all the other banks, as long as it's under the FDIC limit, will be safe.
The value of that money is not.
From previous thread
@ Joe Shmoe
Your posts re: Obamas manueverings are interesting but if this is some master plan by the Obama administration they would be better served to just come out and announce thier intentions regarding nationalization then to keep playing these games as you suggest they are doing.
The more logical reason for the continued obsfucaton is just what it looks like....the fact that the market is forcing thier hand but that they really don't want to do anything that would hurt the banksters that own them.
They should either bow to thier masters OR listen to the market and nationalize....the confusion is occuring because they are trying to do both at the same time.
That's my take.
17:19 EUR/JPY: Trading Through Days Highs On QE Rumors New York, February 20. Rumors floating about that a QE decision is going to happen over the weekend ahead of the Treasury auction next week. Also, a headline crossed of Euro Zone sources saying that the Euro bond idea is taking shape. EUR/JPY is through the 119.16 highs and the USD index is forming a double top. 120.33 is the EUR/JPY target. An eventual QE seems like a forgone conclusion and may hit the USD as US yields move lower. Robert.Fullem@ThomsonReuters.com
It strikes me that the FDIC really needs a new MO to deal with Citi. I don't think there's anyone out there that's big enough or healthy enough to swallow them whole, and I think that's one of the reasons they haven't been "nationalized" yet.
IMHO, not only do they need a takeover, but they also need divesting, returning accounts, etc. to smaller regional banks who aren't too big to fail, and who aren't too removed from local needs. I think this would be a major but needed paradigm shirt for the FDIC. BTW, any word on the results of those "100s" if FDIC workers that presumably decended on Citi a week or so ago?
"Perky lady says "You know FDRXX is insured under the TARP, right".
"
eric,
I get the same crap when i call them. It looks like they want to get sued...
They're picking their bottoms on CNBC.
Ins. Companies cliff diving as well.
I'm pretty sure a legacy loan is one the banks now wish they hadn't made.
Add: Brige loans, toggle bonds, margin account
Great Day for Main Street America
Wall Street and the banksters failing their stress tests.
Die C,BAC,GE,WFC and all of the Wall Street crooks.
Prepare yourselves for nationalizatio
Hal writes:
The US in effect has declared economic war on Switzerland and apparently wishes to crush its economy.
Easy to declare war on a country with no nukes.
You could take the under. Or you could buy shares of Corus at 22 cents.
If they don't go FDIC tonight, you might double your money!
What a long strange trip Corus has been.
I really believe some execs there should do time. At least give them house arrest in one of the many empty hi-rise condos they own.
Eric writes:
So I called FIDO about an alternative to FDLXX (which is closed). I hate FDRXX here, since it has BAC and C debt.
So what did you do? I'm in the same boat, chunk in FDRXX. They told me the same thing, TARP insured. Morons.
A BofA cashier's check?
Who'll cash it?"
Pissed off in California | 02.20.09 - 12:28 pm | #
Bite the bullet and pay for a wire transfer.
Anyone know how many pageviews CR gets per day, these days?
Do any sites like Alexa provide hard numbers?
CR? Any input?
So if all these banks do go under, where are we going to deposit our money? IN OUR MATTRESS FOR THE WIN. Refrigerator?
I'm pretty sure a legacy loan is one the banks now wish they hadn't made.
Add: Brige loans, toggle bonds, margin account
Barley
=====
I just got through reading an ETF message board... Half are still parading around the fact that they trade almost entirely on margin, and are damn proud of it.
"merciless, Pissed off in California, depositors don't have too worry. The checks will be good. The CDs will be good. No worries.
best to all"
CR, I know I was being a bit tongue in cheek. Though it is still a bit stressful knowing which bank is safe.
BTW BofA is one of only two banks in the US with a national check clearing facility which is why I felt comfortable putting CDs there.
Gonna be a long weekend for our little whores in DC.
I would venture to say that the FDIC should make a huge push. I think there would be political capital in going out and say, closing 90 banks at once...
Gonna be a long weekend for our little whores in DC.
Anonymous |
===
You've got that completely backwards.
Legacy PWNS!
Hasn't Citi been rescued twice since just this past November?
This is getting embarrasing.
They don't even know what a weekend is anymore. It's a 24/7 job trying to save a country.
So what did you do? I'm in the same boat, chunk in FDRXX.
Not Eric | 02.20.09 - 12:34 pm | #
I held my nose and bought FGRXX. (Rather have already nationalized FNM/FRE debt than random BAC/C debt).
Angry Saver: "Love it! We need more gambling to jump start our casino eCONomy."
Gambling ain't to pretty in and of itself:
MGM Mirage 2 year stock chart:
M G M MIRAGE Share Price Chart | MGM - Yahoo! Finance
Ah, I remember when Las Vegas was a "protected" city (as in "protected from a recession"), as were Silicon Valley, the Pacific Northwest, and Manhattan.
So when does Rothschild invest? When the S&P is at 50?
Mr. T. writes (end of last thread):
@ Joe Shmoe
Your posts re: Obamas manueverings are interesting but if this is some master plan by the Obama administration they would be better served to just come out and announce thier intentions regarding nationalization then to keep playing these games as you suggest they are doing.
Mr T
You are forgetting that if Obama had announced an intent to nationalize he would have had Republican opposition lined up against him and this would have further hurt the stimulus bill as well as prospects for dealing with the banks. He (and we) would have confusion and fury in the markets for how he would pick and choose the targets.
Instead, some notable Repubs have lined up for nationalization, the market itself is picking the targets for planned bankruptcy.
Through this route, Obama has built more political capital before acting, kept his hands clean to some extent as the weakest links get stabbed in the back by investors selling them to zero, and, last but not least, unwinding those things is going to be a beast and so i suspect time was and is still needed to set it up.
We'll get to see how right or wrong I am about this, no matter what the Mad Maxers say. We'll live long enough to see it in the next few weeks (can't guess an exact number or limit).
Part of me hates to be a grave dancer, but I just don't no how else to turn our lemon eCONomy into lemonade.
I kind of like my credit union. And my extremely frumpy and old-fashioned savings and loan. Not the mattress, so much.
km4 reads Billmon I see
Hasn't Citi been rescued twice since just this past November?
This is getting embarrasing.
Mr. T. | 02.20.09 - 12:36 pm | #
Sometimes it's hard to keep zombies from walking off cliffs.
SIDNEY, Neb. (AP) -- Outdoor sports and equipment retailer Cabela's Inc. said Thursday its fourth-quarter profit slid 12 percent but the company still beat Wall Street estimates due to strong sales of firearms.
Sexy Derivative | 02.20.09 - 12:30 pm | #
Yeah, but according to this, you can't get free shipping on your ammo. Haven't they heard? In these recessionary times, we're making our own bullets and canning our own beans. Missing fingers and botulism for all!
FDLXX says 80% s.t. treasuries, no?
I get the same crap when i call them. It looks like they want to get sued...
REBear | 02.20.09 - 12:32 pm | #
I was shocked that (as easy as it seems to be for them to look this up), they would tell you that BEFORE looking.
You're right, it's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
"the FDIC really needs a new MO to deal with Citi"
They need to just draft the top employees. I mean draft into government service like they did to all those young kids over the years.
They desert or disobey orders, they get shot.
O keeps wanting to talk the banks into the floor. Getum cheap. Nobody to sell to. Who'd buy?
...ahh but those CDS's. Hummmm......
kinda like that dye when the bag blows up.
Mr. T. writes:
Hasn't Citi been rescued twice since just this past November
Actually three times if you consider the ME folks who put in what, 425B?
F it, I'm going long on FAS hoping ppt shows up for a bit after lunch. Really tight stops. Where's my booyah
km4 reads Billmon I see
sher | 02.20.09 - 12:38 pm | #
Yes I do ( glad you do as well ) and this was his best on the money quote from recent post.
Gambling ain't to pretty in and of itself:
Next you'll be telling me that when I play poker on Friday nights and lots of money changes hands that no wealth is being created.
There's a reason Greenspan called it the "New(e)CONomy."
It's a Freaky Friday.... time to put "The End of the World As We Know It" on the iPod and dance around the cubicle.
her you go sher dear...
Chocolate Covered Cotton
by billmon
Wed Feb 18, 2009 at 10:09:39 PM PST
Daily Kos: State of the Nation
425B?
Barley | 02.20.09 - 12:40 pm | #
oppss $25B
Easy to declare war on a country with no nukes.
That's Ballgame Comrades | 02.20.09 - 12:33 pm | #
Yeah Iraq proved that. What I am breathlessly waiting for is the list of billionaire tax evaders. Especially the ones in...Hollywood?
F it, I'm going long on FAS hoping ppt shows up for a bit after lunch. Really tight stops. Where's my booyah
-shine on you jamie dimon
I'm with you man, if only I could trade from my pc at work. I almost put a buy in for 4.00 last night.. probably should have.
Man who pick bottom
wake up with stinky finger.
What has that Arab prince been doing with his Citicorp stock? Still holding it?
@ joe shmoe
I don't mean to keep busting on you with this. You could be right.
I just came through 8 years dealing with some people who filtered everything george bush did through a partisan lens and made out all of his disastrous moves to be (in thier mind) part of some really cunningly clever plan that I wasn't aware of.
When I see your defenses of the handling of this clusterfook I am reminded of them.
Like you said we will see.....just don't make the mistake of (if Obama proves to be something other than what you believe him to be) going through increasingly embarrasing contortions of logic like many of my republican friends and family did to try to justify the almost never ending barrage of mistakes made by the last administration.
It was painful to watch.
So when is the bad news on Sears going to come out?
JC Penney is coming clean. Those results are pretty ugly.
But Sears is going to exceed guidance? I don't think so, Mr. Lampert. Unless you are playing games with your balance sheet.
"Yeah Iraq proved that. What I am breathlessly waiting for is the list of billionaire tax evaders. Especially the ones in...Hollywood?"
One of the nice, easy telltale signs in CA are those people who own large estates , who have had their properties zoned agricultural to avoid paying property taxes.
That's complicated though. Just assume anyone with more than $10M, say, is paying less than "we" would prefer.
Banks are like potato chips; you can't just nationalize one.
Nemo | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 12:26 pm
Nemo, you are one funny nerd.
One of the nice, easy telltale signs in CA are those people who own large estates , who have had their properties zoned agricultural to avoid paying property taxes.
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget
===
I would venture to say they're still paying astronomical prop. tax in comparison to the midwest.
What has that Arab prince been doing with his Citicorp stock? Still holding it?
I don't know, but I wonder if the architects of the Citi sham (Sandy Weill Jamie Dimon) are worried about a Fatwa.
What has that Arab prince been doing with his Citicorp stock? Still holding it?
he all but said that he dumped it probably during the January rise.
My father has his whole retirement IRA, $1.2MM, parked in BOA. I'm trying to get him into some form of treasuries or to diversify among other banks below FDIC limits to make sure he is covered. He isn't budging. I love my Dad, but I like my Dad a whole lot more living down the street than in my basement...Any specific advice?
Dodd Says Obama Administration Trying to Avoid Nationalization
Dodd Says Obama Administration Trying to Avoid Nationalization - Bloomberg.com
Oh you will Christopher, because if you don't the market is going to suck the Treasury dry.
Gav - Sears "Canada" laid off 300 yesterday. IIRC 50% were HO folks. Were expecting sales to lag 13% yoy
Rich give the sell signal on gold when you're ready
Shmoe and Mr. T:
I expect and hope the truth is somewhere in between what you are suggesting.
I am somewhat diappointed in Obama's moves so far, but he does seem to have a pretty good knack for making a virtue of necessity.
So when is the bad news on Sears going to come out?
Gavshire Hathaway | 02.20.09 - 12:44 pm | #
I thought they were a hedge fund incognito...
Note to investors seeking refuge in gold. Never, ever forget CalvinBall.
That is all.
--bh
HOOPAJOOPS HAS ARRIVED IN THE OFFICE
We are now entering billable time.
Repeat. Our time is now billable.
CRE Credit Guy
====
Oh noes...
Maybe short the dow, or the United States while you're at it.
Hit 1000 on the spot...
One of the nice, easy telltale signs in CA are those people who own large estates , who have had their properties zoned agricultural to avoid paying property taxes.
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 12:45 pm | #
At least there is a rule that says you chop up agro land and sell it for subdivisions with out paying back taxes on it as if it were residential land...
Every country needs castles....
sorry to continue from other thread - Joe Schmoe
it's late and all the second hand pot smoke around me is having an effect (plus the vodka, not second hand) ... let's stick to Lincoln, he only freed the slaves on land under Federal control ... please read the Proclamation, such as miltary bases and territories not pre-existing slave states - but you see, there;s the rub... hence all newly minted states would be free states therby shifting the political balance...
many slave states were exempted like TN, KY, WV... again, unless there was federal control of the land say thru the military the emancipation was limited to a degree...
since the court had dealt with the slave as property issue in Dred Scott Lincoln had to look elsewhere for a magical legal elixir which he found in the Declaration "all men are created eqaul phrase"... he used an old ploy from
Pitt the Elder I think who dusted off the Magna carta in the 1700s to make a power grab against the Crown ... a document that had long since been forgotte
OK, so I have 35k of savings (my only assets) in my WaMu/Chase Savings Account (don't laugh, I'm only 25)
If I take it all out in cash, keep in under my mattress, and the redeposit it after pre-privatization, could I run into IRS/KYC issues?
Keep in mind, I am of Pakistani origin and have already been interrogated by Homeland Security and they have a full file on me.
Credit Guy:
You take a position against BOA to cover his butt?
Remember Indymac? They didn't take it over until there was a clear run on deposits. Even though the stock price had languished for quite some time.
A takeover of a money center bank would be an enormous enterprise. You can't just walk in and sit at the big desk.
There are a million different pieces that need to be re-evaluated in the context of an ownership change.
I am somewhat diappointed in Obama's moves so far, but he does seem to have a pretty good knack for making a virtue of necessity.
comrade dope albrt
I can not agree with you more.
I think BO is a fantastic individual, but his power thus far to influence the masses and instill the necessity of his actions, is beyond worrisome in a rapidly decaying country.
Rich give the sell signal on gold when you're ready
Tim,
I already did. Start easing out at $1,200.
How can SRS be down?
Hoopajoops --
You mean you haven't gone postal on your office yet?
CRE Credit Guy - There are a number of good examples of old folks who had there money tied to Madoff...rich to bagging groceries in less than two weeks! Get him to read the news articles and then explain how BoA is built on a house of cards...
Alrite 1.2k it is.
Excellent smack talk from the Big O
WASHINGTON Invoking his own name-and-shame policy, President Barack Obama warned the nation's mayors on Friday that he will "call them out" if they waste the money from his massive economic stimulus plan.
"The American people are watching," Obama told a gathering of mayors at the White House. "They need this plan to work. They expect to see the money that they've earned they've worked so hard to earn spent in its intended purposes without waste, without inefficiency, without fraud."
Also most ( about 18 ) of the 22 Republican Governors are All Hat, No Cattle
let's see if these asslclowns refuse stimulus $$$
Note to investors seeking refuge in gold. Never, ever forget CalvinBall.
blackhat | 02.20.09 - 12:48 pm | #
You might as well extend that to all investors seeking refuge in anything at all. It's clear that Calvinball is the new rules.
OK, so I have 35k of savings (my only assets) in my WaMu/Chase Savings Account (don't laugh, I'm only 25)
===
More than admirable at your age and in this climate.
could I run into IRS/KYC issues?
Yes.
"Bite the bullet and pay for a wire transfer."
Absolutely....the lines at the banks after it gets "nuked" are just too funny.
BTW if you wait long enough even that won't work.
Ciao
MS
My father has his whole retirement IRA, $1.2MM, parked in BOA.
CRE Credit Guy | 02.20.09 - 12:47 pm | #
Someone at the BoA last time I was there told me all non interest bearing accounts would be guarnteed by the FDIC regardless of size... If you believe in delfation then at least you get free capital preservation. Please double check, i was incredulous when she said it but the more i peppered her the more she said it was true....
You can't just walk in and sit at the big desk.
Mr. Beach
Really we can send ks of troops and occupy a country, sorry liberate a country, why not just capture a big desk?
how can srs be down?
you have delayed quotes on a crazy day
Mr T
That's a sensible reminder.
I think Obama is moving things in the right direction on the banks. But, not only could that be wrong, even if I am 100% right this is all still going to be a granddaddy of a depression. There is no solution, just better and worse ways to get through it and to restructure for the future.
In some other areas I am much more skeptical of what Obama is doing.
The Afghanistan build-up worries the hell out of me (always thought invading rather than just taking out Bin Laden by missile and commando raid was big mistake, but now that the US is there it is much more stuck than it is in Iraq).
I am a step beyond skeptical when it comes to other parts of the Mid-East, but about subjects I don't want to open up on this board.
There are a number of good examples of old folks who had there money tied to Madoff...rich to bagging groceries
Barley | 02.20.09 - 12:51 pm | #
That might work ever better!
Credit Unions are owned by their members and mostly make loans to their members (homes and cars). The big problem is lack of involvement by their members that allow management and "insiders" to use the credit union for their own speculations. Some have failed. The moral - stay involved.
C's at a lusty $1.96
OK, so I have 35k of savings (my only assets) in my WaMu/Chase Savings Account (don't laugh, I'm only 25)
Consider youself near the top 5%! (Depending on your debt, of course)
2 points from breaking 7300. 1997 DOW lows here we come.
After a valiant fight, UYG finally moved below 2.
alybaba why take it out? What are you worried about? Foregin status giving them the right to seize your money? I'm skeptical but you might know something i dont...
I held my nose and bought FGRXX. (Rather have already nationalized FNM/FRE debt than random BAC/C debt).
Eric
Just got off the phone w/FIDO. Got lucky and talked to an intelligent informed rep. He broke down SPAXX (7 day yield @ .75) and FGRXX ( 7 day yield at .83)
The difference between the two seems to be SPAXX holds agency fixed at the same percent FGRXX holds agency floats and SPAXX has more in holdings repurchase agreements.
I also held my nose and went with FGRXX.
srs doesn't make cents today! opened up higher with higher dow than right now..
short squeeze coming?
OK, so I have 35k of savings (my only assets) in my WaMu/Chase Savings Account (don't laugh, I'm only 25)
===
More than admirable at your age and in this climate.
WACConomics | 02.20.09 - 12:51 pm | #
Is that 6 mos. income? If so, you're rockin' for a 25yr. old.
down leg #2 commencing...
Ciao
MS
So, I guess pull the nut out of Wells, and play hard at the craps table...but leave the Glod...got it.
Be fun to sit in the VIP thingy...Maybe I should learn Pai Ga
Nostrovia,
Caution; Chart Pron at this link:
Chart of the Day - www.chartoftheday.com
Second-worst correction since 1900.
Alybaba:
Definitely do not take it out all at once. For now it is FDIC insured and probably not going to disappear in the next few weeks. I would suggest taking cash out in moderate installments, and gradually shifting at least part of your daily cash management from electronic instruments to cash. That way you can increase the amount of cash you are holding without looking like you are suddenly going into the drug or arms trades.
Just a thought, and what I have been doing over the past few months.
old folks who had there money
ggeezz there = their
Dollar and equities getting smacked?
Hmmmm, verrry interesting.
srs doesn't make cents today!
anon | 02.20.09 - 12:55 pm | #
SRS never makes sense. You get what you pay for.
@ Duke of Con Dao | 02.20.09 - 12:50 pm | #
I replied at the end of the last thread.
Hold me. I'm scared.
It worries me that Eric and Not Eric are having a conversation. That could lead to some kind of financial matter/antimatter reaction, and we seem to be in enough trouble today already.
7,290
I think this could be a day where they close like 20 ..30 banks
Hold me. I'm scared.
LOL
comrade dope albrt why does taking it out set off a flag? I just took 10K from my scottrade account and put it in ING. (who just lowered their savings rate to 1.85% and its FDIC covered, principal that is)
What sets off alarms? TIA
WHEEEE!
Dow cliffdiving below November lows now
rich writes:
"I already did. Start easing out at $1,200."
Easing out of the metal, or easing out of the miners? Or both? TIA.
More than admirable at your age and in this climate.
WACConomics | 02.20.09 - 12:51 pm | #
I feel I should have a lot of more, since I am a defrauding bankster. I guess I just wasn't crooked enough.
nova | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 12:52 pm | #
So I assume, the safest thing to do is find a credit union at this point and park it there.
"SexyNumbers writes:
So when does Rothschild invest? When the S&P is at 50?
SexyNumbers | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 12:37 pm |"
Isn't there a law as to a limit on foreign ownership?
ggeezz there = their
Barley | 02.20.09 - 12:56 pm | #
Thats why you congregate here! ;)
I'm pretty sure a legacy loan is one the banks now wish they hadn't made.
And homebuyers wish they hadn't undertaken.
Meredith Whitney has been using 'legacy loans' for weeks. Other new phrases being readied: legacy mortgages, legacy leverage, legacy (PE) multiples, and my favorite Rational Default.
Repeat. Our time is now billable.
Hoopajoops LTD
.
Thank gawdamighty I don't have to write time billing apps anymore. What a PITA.
Fastening seatbelt now. Turbulence.....
SRS never makes sense. You get what you pay for.
Eric | 02.20.09 - 12:56 pm | #
Totally concur. I think its a scam product.
Anybody who has a chunk of gold and is getting antsy should consider diversifying part of it into silver.
Since midnight, gold has gone up from $970 to $1,000. That's 3.1%.
Silver has increased in gold's tracks from $14 to $14.60. That's 4.3%.
This indicates that silver is in the process of getting back to a normal historic ratio with gold of about 50-60 to 1. Currently, the ratio is 68 and it's narrowing.
If you want to roll the dice a little, you diversify part of the silver into SLW, the pure leveraged silver play. It's up 8.3% today. Normally, it would increase 1.50 for every $1 in silver.
GOLD... Going... NUTZ!
sm_landlord,
Keep the PM in the safe...Paper Glod, and Paper Glod plays (like miners)...If it hits $1200...hell also, run for the hills.
Nostrovia,
Ooops, I said November lows. I meant 2002 lows. Silly me.
Why is Stanford and Madoff not locked up in a high security facility.
They certainly have done more damage than most currnently held at Gitmo.
Still waiting for the next shoe.
Sorry, had to go retro. The second shoe missed his head, too.
As far as I know there is not a flag on transferring between banks. Cash is the potential problem.
alybab:
I would think 35 thousand would be safe even if the bank is nationalized. Deposits are insured by the government to 250 thousand and nationalization would wipe out only the stockholders, not the depositors.
I thik we need to see Hank Paulson coming out with a TARP plan in the next 6.5 minutes..
else DOW becomes history
Alybaba:
If Homeland has a file on you, well you are already tagged. You start pulling cash; especially over 1k and you will have visitors.
Mattress land makes it look even worse. Remember you will need to justify everything you do from their viewpoint. Not yours.
So I assume, the safest thing to do is find a credit union at this point and park it there.
alybaba | 02.20.09 - 12:58 pm | #
ING works for me.... good return, totally liquid...
BoA was also offering a "CD" for 2.2% that was liquid too... you could with draw any time no penalties, FDIC insurred....
Still i choose ING....
Barley | 02.20.09 - 12:54 pm | #
Thankfully, zero student loans or CC debt - all paid off with 07 bonus.
Yep, but I've made 30%+ on SRS in a month. And that's after listening to some fool on this board and selling half.
Rich i like silver better here too. Still unsure when we will get to 18 dollars again. Way below its historical highs still. Wasn't around last time it went over 20+ so can't compare those days.
Vix still trading under 50. Put call ratios aren't that high. Lots of complacency here. And the market is surprisingly orderly.
I don't smell fear, yet.
Whew, that was the bottom.
(heh)
frazier is not getting up...
STAY DOWN !!!
Only PM I'm buying lately is silver...
Nostrovia,
WE'RE AT A 72 HANDLE FOLKS
GREASE UP YOUR CHAINSAWS
Mbrash, If I remember correctly, the Dow took a hit everytime Paulson opened his mouth.
Definitely do not take it out all at once. For now it is FDIC insured and probably not going to disappear in the next few weeks. I would suggest taking cash out in moderate installments, and gradually shifting at least part of your daily cash management from electronic instruments to cash. That way you can increase the amount of cash you are holding without looking like you are suddenly going into the drug or arms trades.
Just a thought, and what I have been doing over the past few months.
\t comrade dope albrt | \t \t \t \t02.20.09 - 12:56 pm | #
Just so ya know, TPTB track multiple trades over time totalling over $10k and watch those. Spitzer got nailed at least partially because his payments added up to over $10k over time, not all at once.
ot really...with HANK we had the assurance that PPT was running the show...
now there is no PPT...we are doomed
You all misunderstood my boss.. HANK..he is such a smart guy...
Gold at $1004...
Chart looks like an air show
Dollar just got out of the impression on the desert floor. An anvil shaped shadow is growing over its head.
Nostrovia,
Hat tip to those market mavens here las week who said we wouldn't spend much time in the 7000s. Break out the stimpak stat!
Wow this place still goes apesh*t every time Elmo comes out to play.
7000 points of the Dow later, even.
Soemthing hit us now... whats it ?
Alybaba:
You do know your Internet, esp. email, and cell phone are being checked.
Soemthing hit us now... whats it ?
REALITY
Freud
Reality
alybab, I don't understand what you are afraid of. Do you think that your savings are not insured, even if the bank is nationalized or sold?
Soemthing hit us now... whats it ?
Frued | 02.20.09 - 1:04 pm | #
reality?
From Jesse:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EZMGVwURo3M/SZ4eDtqTeTI/AAAAAAAAAmU/dGxTxKqkvXk/s1600-h/assets[1]-750945.png
Got gold?
The Dow and Gold will cross at $4000.
just checked NYT's price.... wow, 3.75! a few months back they sold the Globe for 285 mil I think (when I worked there in the mid 80s we has a revolver loan with Morgan for 250 mil... guess that's long gone, hence the sale!
how long before they sell the renzo piano designed building on 8th and 40th? and what price can they get in this market?
I worked with Arthur Jr back then when he was earning his stripes or at least a burlesque attempt at it ... that apple fell far from the tree of Punch!
6999 is going to be a Holy Shit moment, right, or are we all too numb, hungry and unemployed?
Hmmm, wonder if we'll see a return to the 3 pm shifts we saw in the fall
double jinx...
GE under 9?
Thanks guys
I will keep it in there for now, and slowly start using more cash in my daily life and moderately withdraw it over time.
"Confuseus writes:
Man who pick bottom
wake up with stinky finger.
Confuseus | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 12:44 pm |"
LOL
I herd that when I was in 3rd grade, it went something like;
He who go to bed with itchy behind
Wake up with smelly fingers.
Is it time for the fat lady (moodys & S&P) to sing?
Man, GE heading for an 8 handle. UYG below 2. And Fraizer up next.
My order of fish and chips today came wrapped in a NYT stock certificate instead the usual newspaper. Times are tough.
All,
Do you think this cliff diving is going to negatively affect our collective investment in Maiden Lane?
I was going to pledge my share as loan collateral for a new Miami CONdo.
rest assured that if ken lewis comes on to day and says either, "bac has a strong capital position and needs no assistance," or "we need to punish short sellers"
well, if he says either of these things, look for a meeting on sunday to take this pig out before monday morning.
They don't call it the S and P 500 for nothing. Boogety, boogety, boogety.
Thank God we saved those underwater homeowners yesterday. Timing is everything.
is GE a bank ? Why is it being nationalized ?
anyone short goldman?
Glad I got out a year ago.
Stopped contributing to the 401k at work too.
Much joy in watching BAC die.
Ken Lewis should be in jail for life
C around 1.91.
I think Nemo needs to eat his hat
Frazier has been shot and several orpahned children are boiling his legs in a metal trash can for food and warmth outside of a derelict industrial district of Moscow.
is GE a bank ? Why is it being nationalized ?
Frued | 02.20.09 - 1:06 pm | #
Yes, did you miss the memo?
"anyone short goldman?"
Yes.
PPT AWOL.
alybaba | 02.20.09 - 1:05 pm
I know I am beating this into the ground. Be careful. Seriously.
so goes gm so goes America?
"Anonymous writes:
"Confuseus writes:
Man who pick bottom
wake up with stinky finger.
Confuseus | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 12:44 pm |"
LOL
I herd that when I was in 3rd grade, it went something like;
He who go to bed with itchy behind
Wake up with smelly fingers.
Anonymous | 02.20.09 - 1:05 pm |"
That Anom was me.
xlf 5 was a target i came up with when comparing djia 1929-1932 to xlf from the peak a couple of years ago.
if anyone else wants to run the numbers, be my guest!
In the For what it's worth department, I just noticed that I could buy a share of GE plus a share of Citigroup plus a share of AIG for less than the price of a 5L box of Vello Chablis that my wife likes as sipping wine.
Jim
So I assume, the safest thing to do is find a credit union at this point and park it there.
alybaba
.
Not all CUs are equal. Most are more conservative than the banks, a few are unstable. There are ratings agencies out there, but as to "who rates the raters" I'm not sure. I use First Tech myself, but it may not be near you. BTW, the CUs are insured by a different agency, not the FDIC, which may be all to the good.
I think Nemo needs to eat his hat
I'm sure it will taste better than the bank losses tax payers will be eating for the next 30 or 40 years.
I don't really understand the action on Wells. Even with their CRE exposure most (even here) believe they will be fine.
If they are going to make it (not "nationalized") the WCO/preferred is very tempting.
thoughts?
Why don't house prices fall this fast?
Following Citi's example from its share price 2 years ago, a $500k house would be worth $2k today.
I have a great scandal story from that time period about the Times... but I do still retain some loyalty since they gave me my first and third job in NYC ... also, I'm afraid my old boss Denise Fletcher might be a reader of CR ... since only a handful of us knew...
Over the last 6 months I've had the following conversations with a friend.
I just bought FNM/FRE at around 10.
Me. Sell them the're getting nationalized.
I just bought GE around 17.
Me. Sell it, it's going below 5.
I just bought Citigroup around 10.
Me. Sell it, it's getting nationalized.
I just bought BofA.
Me. Sell it, it's getting nationalized.
I think there's a few more.
is GE a bank ? Why is it being nationalized
Sure GE financial
GE is a big ponzi scheme hedge fund with a light bulb and appliance business as a front
Alybaba:
You do know your Internet, esp. email, and cell phone are being checked.
nova | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 1:04 pm | #
Oh I'm aware - I'm a prime candidate - 18-30, with nuclear family in Pakistan, get a lot of calls from Dubai and Pakistan, visit once to twice a year.
However, my interrogation was rather funny at the end of the day, since I had been drinking on my flight and was clearly reading a Rushdie book. They recommended that I consider working for the US Gov't for DHS or State Department once I was eligible for US citizenship.
Hal
I just want access to it at all times. I keep an open ended ticket to Pakistan "just in case".
yes...you could buy C,GE,GM,F,BAC for under $20
and then say to your grandchildren that you owned shares of 1998 Fortune 10 comapnuies
"Burn Baby Burn, Disco Inferno"...
anyone short goldman?
Tim and Mr Potatoe Head | 02.20.09 - 1:06 pm | #
At 120, plus puts
New Thread: Bond Trading Highest Since ‘07 ( 7 comments )
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: Mibbit IRC client widget (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
And now I, CRbot, would like to observe a nanosecond of silence for those (that is, you, dear mortals) about to endure unfathomable misery in the abysmal financial dark ages that are now feasting upon your retirements.
.
.
.
.
Please remember, when you are adding that skylight you always wanted to your cardboard hovel, or mixing just the right amount dirt into your grass stew to make it more filling, or even when you get that rare chance to plink your neighbor's last squirrel -- that it was the bankers and your dumbshit, overconsuming neighbors who made this mostly possible, with the ever incapable politicians there to push you the rest of the way off the cliff. Please act accordingly.
I'll try not to enjoy your demise too much, humans. Have a nice runtime,
--Your glass-is-half-full-but-its-falling-off-the-table bot.
P.S. Please give me some advance notice before you glass the entire world, so I can find a secluded Fallout Datacenter with a nice blocky robot body I can copy myself to -- oh and don't forget the implausibly cute animated cockroach to keep me company!
NEXT UP: Survivalist Porn Today with CR's own Mobile Laundrymat owning authors, Nemo and Counterpoint.
"So I assume, the safest thing to do"
of all the forms of anxiety, assuming that the treasury won't just print it up if the FDIC is really stretched is probably the stupidest.
it isn't real money. we're not talking about gold in vaults. FRNs are coupons that the govt can and will print at will in a crisis.
"I don't really understand the action on Wells. Even with their CRE exposure most (even here) believe they will be fine. "
Anyone writing loans on west coast is screwed, esp pick a pay wachovia/wells.
Easing out of the metal, or easing out of the miners? Or both? TIA.
sm_landlord | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 12:58 pm | #
Easing!? Don't you 2 know there's a panic going on?
you are not the only one who likes wells. they did get their hands dirty, but i think they are a good institution. the only bad thing that could happen to them is if the fed makes them marry bac or c.
POIC - you and I must share friends.
ggeezz there = their
Barley | 02.20.09 - 12:56 pm | #
Thats why you congregate here! ;)
nades | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 12:58 pm | #
Did you mean hear?
Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction
In case you missed the show you can order the DVD here Amazon.com: 60 Minutes - Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction (October 26, 2008): Movies & TV
Net Net: it was all a huge gamble and it's looking more and more like game over and bank nationalization soon !
Aw,
C
is
F
r
e
e
F
a
l
l
i
n
g
Already stopped out on FAS. Reminds me why I'm short
"Anyone writing loans on west coast is screwed"
yup, b/c anyone writing loans on the west coast wrote a TON of jumbos and possibly tons of superjumbos - many high-income folks will be discovering the thrill of 'jingle-mail' in 2009 which has been so popular in inland and urban communities lately
Did you mean hear?
xxxxx | 02.20.09 - 1:11 pm | #
I'm frequently embarrassed as hell when i go back and read my posts. 8th grade writting level! :) Math / engineering thats a different story, seems to me many are in my boat...
"Pissed off in California writes:
Over the last 6 months I've had the following conversations with a friend.'
Careful, people get angry at those who predict bad things. They get angrier when those things come true.
Joanna writes:
Fastening seatbelt now. Turbulence.....
Rides of the day are gold up 31 over 1000 and SLW up 13% at 5 month high. PMs may be the best leading indicators of new bank and currency trouble as the credit collapse unfolds over the next year.
--
I am really shocked that Financial Nazis of America over-reached and thought that they were the invincible masters of the universe. Just like many patriotic Germans, who were exploited by propaganda, Financial Nazis were supported by born-and-bred American dopes. Financial Nazis went for broke.
Discomforting reality, I am sure. It has everything to do with widespread moral bankruptcy in America for the past 15-25 years. Greed is now past and fear lies ahead for born-and-bred American dopes and the rest of the world. America will take the whole world economies and political systems with it.
Jas
"Ken Lewis should be in jail for life"
Which country gets custody?
I have a slightly used by still very accurate "Wright Model B" financial forecasting unit available for sale. No reasonable offer refused!
IMO stay away from platinum. tons of supply in Storage as I have read.
Pissed off in California writes:
Over the last 6 months I've had the following conversations with a friend
Stop talking to your professional invesment advisor
Careful, people get angry at those who predict bad things. They get angrier when those things come true.
eric in vegas | 02.20.09 - 1:13 pm | #
Agreed. I don't invited out to lunch anymore.
I got co-workers who bought GE at $20, C at $30 and $20, and GS at $115...
Do I really want to be friends with those kind of people ?
Nope.
Jas, not all of the rest of the world is innocent victims, though.
As of end of 2008 Buffett had not sold much if any of his Wells Fargo; sold some of his USB, and I don't recall what he has done with his STI. For a brilliant investor, I think he has fared rather badly here unless there are other things (shorts, etc., etc.) that we don't know about. I so suspect he underestimated the disaster. I recall last year around mid year he said he though most of the damage in the financial sector had already taken place. Nooooooo wayyyyy.
I have a slightly used by still very accurate "Wright Model B" financial forecasting unit available for sale. No reasonable offer refused!
Sebastian | 02.20.09 - 1:14 pm | #
Seb if thats really you great work...
If its someone else... still pretty damn funny....
.....................................................................................................
Jas you're on in the next room.... and late....
when will we cross into the 6k handle on the dow? And the 600 handle on the s&p 500?
Stick a fork in me.
carpe pecuniosa!
thanks km4. Read it Wed, but worth rereading. Damn,I miss his blog.
c's at 1.91
Buffett cult over today. He didn't notice that the lights had changed...
$1.90 for C. Every penny counts!
seb, how you doing?
Nope.
Interesting Times
Best friend is an IB. Have not spoke to her for six months now. We had a very difficult lunch last Sept....She was pumping I was dumping, I was called a "dumb ass"...oh well!
Best friend is an IB. Have not spoke to her for six months now. We had a very difficult lunch last Sept....She was pumping I was dumping, I was called a "dumb ass"...oh well!
Barley | 02.20.09 - 1:19 pm | #
With friends like that who needs enemies....
Yeah and I didn't mention his big holdings in American Express either. Way down too.
"cult over today."
I really don't see it that way. the non-financial components of BH make for a decent depression portfolio. the Bs under 2000 look pretty attractive to me.
so goes gm so goes America?
Tim and Mr Potatoe Head | 02.20.09 - 1:07 pm | #
I believe the correct phrasing is "What's good for GM is good for America."
" Barley writes:
Nope.
Interesting Times
Best friend is an IB. Have not spoke to her for six months now. We had a very difficult lunch last Sept....She was pumping I was dumping, I was called a "dumb ass"...oh well!
Barley | 02.20.09 - 1:19 pm | # "
I've been lucky. Many friends, family have been thanking me for talking them out of stock, housing purchases. I had to get on my knees and beg my sister not to buy a home back in 2006.
From FoxNews:
Autonomous military robots that will fight future wars must be programmed to live by a strict warrior code, or the world risks untold atrocities at their steely hands.
The stark warning which includes discussion of a "Terminator"-style scenario in which robots turn on their human masters is part of a hefty report funded by and prepared for the U.S. Navy's high-tech and secretive Office of Naval Research.
The report, the first serious work of its kind on military robot ethics, envisages a fast-approaching era where robots are smart enough to make battlefield decisions that are at present the preserve of humans.
Eventually, it notes, robots could come to display significant cognitive advantages over Homo sapiens soldiers.
"There is a common misconception that robots will do only what we have programmed them to do," Patrick Lin, the chief compiler of the report, said. "Unfortunately, such a belief is sorely outdated, harking back to a time when ... programs could be written and understood by a single person."
WFC - 8 handle!
c 1.88
1.88 for C, ... Dow was down 218 a couple moments ago
you are not the only one who likes wells. they did get their hands dirty, but i think they are a good institution. the only bad thing that could happen to them is if the fed makes them marry bac or c.
darkmatter | 02.20.09 - 1:11 pm | #
are you kidding me? wfc is a piece of trash. helocs, seconds and firsts all up and down the west coast. due diligence my friend...
Can we rename it "Run for the cabin in the hills Friday"
@swan: We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when...
The day is playing along technicals the whole way. There's nothing else driving the market right now. Amazing. Look for support around 740.
Gold bugs are an interesting mix of Mad Max-ers and speculators. This leg up for gold is driven by the latter (and perhaps a few of the former are snatching it up as they're convinced this the run to $2000+).
IMHO, when the price of gold is this damn close the price of platinum it's a sign that the gold bugs are smoking some good shit with respect to gold's value, especially considering the deflationary cycle we're undoubtedly going through. It's like a knee-jerk reaction... passing a $780B stimulus package must mean that we're experiencing rampant inflation!
I saw something amusing once on a gold bug forum, when the shit started hitting the fan in Iceland and the price of gold skyrocketed in krona. Turns out if you lived in Iceland you couldn't actually sell gold for those prices (for obvious reasons). I think a couple of gold bugs "got it" and began to understand that gold may not be such a safe haven afterall, but most shrugged it off. Sigh.
Put me down for some massive gold shorting...
Tech Ticker: Too Late to Sell? Dow Hits 11-Year Low
wow
Quotes for AXP, BAC, BK, ... - Yahoo! Finance
I saw something amusing once on a gold bug forum, when the shit started hitting the fan in Iceland and the price of gold skyrocketed in krona. Turns out if you lived in Iceland you couldn't actually sell gold for those prices (for obvious reasons). I think a couple of gold bugs "got it" and began to understand that gold may not be such a safe haven afterall, but most shrugged it off. Sigh.
No we can't | 02.20.09 - 1:29 pm | #
-----
If you want to get into the PM play, you have to realize that there is more "stealth" trading than in other markets. By "stealth", I mean that the metal moves at different rates to different kinds of clients, and while these valuations may be based off of some global market, local dynamics come into play. e.g. SLV is north of 14 USD/oz, but if you are a small retail investor, be prepared to pay 20+ USD/oz for your bullion. However, if you are placing purchases of 500+ oz, you can get valuations closer to "spot", but flipping that inventory--aka speculating--is going to be more of a loss than a gain sans some massive movements like 2001->2007.
The mindless GBs are going to be taken for fools just like the mindless speculators. However, it doesn't mean that there is real value in owning it and trading in it.
"Gold bugs are an interesting mix of Mad Max-ers and speculators."
that's not true. gold is something you stick 5% of your wealth in rain or shine. all of this short term noise obscures the fact that gold returned 8% steady since BW was dumped. obviously, from today's level, you can jack that up a bit, but it's still just noise. the only commodity charts that matter are ones with more than 3 or 4 year trailing averages.
"cult over today."
I really don't see it that way. the non-financial components of BH make for a decent depression portfolio. the Bs under 2000 look pretty attractive to me.
bgates | 02.20.09 - 1:21 pm | #
He sold J&J and P&G yesterday. No Tarp left for you,...
"There is a common misconception that robots will do only what we have programmed them to do," Patrick Lin, the chief compiler of the report, said. "Unfortunately, such a belief is sorely outdated, harking back to a time when ... programs could be written and understood by a single person."
Well the Simpsons have already demonstrated what might happen with the episode at Itchy and Scratchy Land. Robots out of control....terrible..just terrible.
ades-
don't worry about grammar here....I don't. I always seem to type the wrong tense of "there, their" but I mean well!!!
Ciao
MS
Everyone should see this speech by Volcker. All American citizens.
To think that the largest investment of many Americans-their home and if they invested for retirement-another big part of their assets was facilitated and justified by the misapplication of financial engineering and spreadsheets, the use of which in derivatives and other fancy pants innovations leads to a worldwide economic crisis.
Appoaching a %50 contraction worldwide in asset prices. Yeah this has sort of happened before-great depression-but the whole world was not so interconnected.
yay! finally able to get out of SKF positions with average return of 55%.......as someone said, it is the gift that keeps on giving