Credit crunch may only have just begun, S&P warns
By Alistair Barr
The credit crunch may only be in its early stages and a bigger contraction in lending in coming months could have "serious implications" for the U.S. economy, Standard & Poor's Rating Services said Friday. Credit crunch may only have just begun, S&P warns - MarketWatch
The sad part is that I was just between Marianne Faithful's "Working Class Hero" and a twofer of Blondie "Accidents Never Happen" & Elvis Costello's "Accidents Will Happen." Then it's Human Sexual Response and Adam Ant 'til the cops show up.
Still no love for the jumbo set. One interesting provision of the cramdown proposal.
The [cramdown] proposal would also cap the value of the loans eligible for bankruptcy modification to limits set by mortgage finance firms Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which could be difficult in parts of the country that saw the biggest run-up in prices.
About the Santelli rant, I know a lot of ridicule over it but seriously, he's right. How about instead of throwing loot at the banks and the irresponsibe delinquent borrowers the government in its moment of fiscally insane generosity, instead throws the money at the people that actually pay their obligations... a reward for honoring committments instead of rewarding the crooks.
PPT woke up this afternoon and threw its feeble minions out into the battle zone to hold off the charge for another day. It got pretty close to the edge today. Any day now.
In 1987 Kudlow was hired by Bear, Stearns & Company as their chief economist and senior managing director. He was fired in 1994 after his out-of-control drug use resulted in him missing an important client presentation.[4] He also served as an economic counsel to A.B. Laffer & Associates, which is the San Diego, California, company of Arthur Laffer
source: wikipedia
They should make a satirical movie about the guy's life.
As for whomever said they bought PRU... Kudlow is also consulting chief economist for American Skandia Life Assurance, Inc., in Connecticut, a subsidiary of insurance giant Prudential Financial.
bearly writes:
About the Santelli rant, I know a lot of ridicule over it but seriously, he's right.
bearly | 02.20.09 - 11:22 pm | #
The companyy that pays his salary took tarp money. I'll pay much more attention to his rants once he resigns. Otherwise his rants amount to I got mine the hell with YOU.
Rob Dawg all these years I thought you were a boomer. Marianne Faithful? Blondie? Adam Ant? Arent't these Genex heros? eprobert | 02.20.09 - 11:19 pm | #
I was asked to "pursue my academic aspirations elsewhere" from more New England institutions of higher learning than most people can spell. Technically (chronologically) I'm a really late boomer but I'm also a really late bloomer. There was a time when I was pissed that the record store near the Pru was crowded because some O.M.D. guys were sitting on the lower level lonely waiting to sign records. This was back in the "Enola Gay" days.
\tAdam Ant ' Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:12 pm | #
No way! Mr. Dawg, you have my props. \t Joanna
Thanks, Snuck a copy of Billy Idol's "White Wedding" into the reception track of my little sisters' traditional event. Desperate but not Serious.
Thanks, Snuck a copy of Billy Idol's "White Wedding" into the reception track of my little sisters' traditional event. Desperate but not Serious. Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:31 pm | #
Did the groom stand and deliver? That's all that matters....
The companyy that pays his salary took tarp money. I'll pay much more attention to his rants once he resigns. Otherwise his rants amount to I got mine the hell with YOU.
martyseattle | 02.20.09 - 11:31 pm | #
You mean like when Santelli opened his big fat trap and called people that can't pay their mortgates "losers" and to let the "water carriers" buy them out? Santelli might want to check himself before he wrecks himself. He forgets GE moneybank was a major contributor to the subrime problem, that would be his parent company, has he railed against what they did? Thought not...He needs to shut his F;n piehole...
The companyy that pays his salary took tarp money. I'll pay much more attention to his rants once he resigns. Otherwise his rants amount to I got mine the hell with YOU. martyseattle | 02.20.09 - 11:31 pm | #
Exactly. He's no John Galt until he walks out of the pit and off the screen.
Rick Santelli is a member of the parasite class.. .people who actually contribute nothing to society but pretend they are the one's actually propping up society
"You mean like when Santelli opened his big fat trap and called people that can't pay their mortgates "losers" and to let the "water carriers" buy them out? Santelli might want to check himself before he wrecks himself. He forgets GE moneybank was a major contributor to the subrime problem, that would be his parent company, has he railed against what they did? Thought not...He needs to shut his F;n piehole...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:33 pm | # "
Like him or hate him, he was the only one on CNBS warning the result of bailouts versus transparency.
All along he's said bring the shit out into the open and clean up the miss.
Rob Dawg writes:
"Thanks, Snuck a copy of Billy Idol's "White Wedding" into the reception track of my little sisters' traditional event. Desperate but not Serious. ;-)"
All along he's said bring the shit out into the open and clean up the miss.
Formerly POIC, trying ZEN | 02.20.09 - 11:38 pm | #
OK, let's watch this bitch burn to the ground, no skin of my teeth...I'm all for pitchforks and pikes...I'm thinking Ricky baby is not...just a guess...
"Rick Santelli is a member of the parasite class.. .people who actually contribute nothing to society but pretend they are the one's actually propping up society
irony
Citiprank | 02.20.09 - 11:37 pm | # "
How many people on this board "contribute to society". Hell I'm a software paper pusher. Not sure really what I contribute at the end of the day.
I suspect many people on this board "contribute" far less than they like to believe.
I suspect many people on this board "contribute" far less than they like to believe.
Formerly POIC, trying ZEN | 02.20.09 - 11:40 pm | #
Fuck that, I've been a bartender for over 20 years listening to you people whine about everything from your wife fucking your best friend to your investment scheme getting crushed...I've contributed plenty I've also RECORDED plenty...coming to a bookstore near you soon...I bet you tip for shit too...
"How many people on this board "contribute to society". Hell I'm a software paper pusher. Not sure really what I contribute at the end of the day.
I suspect many people on this board "contribute" far less than they like to believe."
Most of us aren't claiming to contribute a lot
I specialize in performance analysis of complex software systems... so in the end all I help you do is get your order faster on amazon or buy an airline ticket faster.....
"Fuck that, I've been a bartender for over 20 years listening to you people whine about everything from your wife fucking your best friend to your investment scheme getting crushed...I've contributed plenty I've also RECORDED plenty...coming to a bookstore near you soon...I bet you tip for shit too...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:42 pm | # "
Haven't been in a bar in years. And I wasn't including you as part of the non-producers.
Just pointing out there are plenty of people on this board doing paper pusher type jobs railing against others doing paper pushing jobs.
"Now I am watching Santelli on Hardball and I am thinking based on some of the things he said that Santelli is either invested in or speaking on behalf of people who are invested in hedge bets against these mortgages being paid back."
"I work for a credit agency. How much do I contribute to society?"
Maybe I stated it wrong.. there's a group of people in society who hate anyone who makes less money than them and always act like they are propping everyone else up... that's what I detest.. as most of them are worthless parasites
I'm not claiming to contirbute anything to society... but I'm also not claiming that I'm propping anyone else up
Thanks, Snuck a copy of Billy Idol's "White Wedding" into the reception track of my little sisters' traditional event. Desperate but not Serious. Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:31 pm | #
Sweet! We were running dry on the youtubes, I'll pop one of those in.
"Now I am watching Santelli on Hardball and I am thinking based on some of the things he said that Santelli is either invested in or speaking on behalf of people who are invested in hedge bets against these mortgages being paid back."
brushes9 | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:46 pm | #
I was alluding to that earlier, thank you...Santelli better hope to Goddess he's not or he's toast...
"Haven't been in a bar in years. And I wasn't including you as part of the non-producers.
Fair enought, consider yourself stricken from my rant..
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:46 pm | # "
Well that's why I changed my handle. I'm trying to work on my own rants (:
I'm hoping my handle change will help.
I gotta say though when I was working in software in biotech it sure felt a lot more fullfilling then what I do now. Atleast I felt I was on the forefront of something new and hopefully helpful.
My read was that his water bearers are the folks who exercised prudence on their mortgages and debts. I'm not sure that employment background really figured into his rant.
What are bond investors so worried about? Maybe they see the same fiscal future, trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see, as do report authors Alan Auerbach and William Gale:
In 2009, the federal deficit will be larger as a share of the economy than at any time since World War II. The current deficit is due in part to economic weakness and the stimulus, and in part to policy choices made in the past. What is more troubling is that, under what we view as optimistic assumptions, the deficit is projected to average at least $1 trillion per year for the 10 years after 2009, even if the economy returns to full employment and the stimulus package is allowed to expire in two years. The longer-run picture is even bleaker. We estimate a fiscal gap the immediate and permanent increase in taxes or reduction in spending that would keep the long-term debt/GDP ratio at its current level about 7-9 percent of GDP, or between $1 trillion and $1.3 trillion per year in current dollars.
I suspect many people on this board "contribute" far less than they like to believe. dryfly | 02.20.09 - 11:41 pm | #
I have a lot to contribute, but no time to vet out my opinions and provide linkage. I'm an amateur, but I think deep. Just always pressed for time, and burning taxpayer dollars as a state employee.
most of the people that i know who somewhat agree with santelli aren't against all prongs of the housing relief. In particular, they don't have issues with the $200B to refinance people into fixed mortgages, especially those facing in resets or recasts
What seems to be more problematic are the people who are so over-leveraged that they can't even afford their conventional mortgage.
Caution: Citizen Energycon is correct. Santelli may well have started a brushfire, as his comments do resonate with a large group of people. The same people chronicled in "Whats Wrong With Kansas". The question of where it goes will come down to whether Obama won, or McCain lost.
Do any of us really know if the country turned left? Or did it reject the failed domestic policies of the right??
See if you can find some Trinchero Triple Cream (Sutter Home). Used to be only available at the winery but now you can order it. Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:53 pm | #
We get this stuff from Rare Wine Co. It's a historical series, Malmsey, Bual & Sercial. I am a total whore for malmsey now.
Pump up the volume...apropos... Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:55 pm | #
OMG I have this disc. I love this song. Paid in Full. My poor partner doesn't have the urban upbringing, and skips the rap. But when you cross dance beats with old school rap, I am there.
OMG I have this disc. I love this song. Paid in Full. My poor partner doesn't have the urban upbringing, and skips the rap. But when you cross dance beats with old school rap, I am there.
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:02 am
Girl, I knew you and I were soul mates..check my last link
"And the Stimulus package will cost about close to $7,000 per household.
How much more will be piled on?"
Honestly.. it doesn't even matter anymore.. The debt is never going to be paid down....
In any case until we cut military spending anything else we do is irrelevant.
Funny that for all the talk about govt. spending on this board no one ever brings up the most massive, least efficient and most corrupt govt agency.. the DoD
Well I work for a software company... I suppose that's "manufacturing" or as close to it as you get in the US these days Citiprank | 02.21.09 - 12:05 am | #
There is way more mfg than people know - what they don't realize is for every guy running an air wrench there are 10-20 others in 'the office' somewhere 'supporting' him. In that respect it isn't different than where most of you all work.
About the Santelli rant, I know a lot of ridicule over it but seriously, he's right. How about instead of throwing loot at the banks and the irresponsibe delinquent borrowers the government in its moment of fiscally insane generosity, bearly | 02.20.09 - 11:22 pm | #
But where was Santelli when it was just the Banksters being bailed?
Two young terrorists are in a locker room taking a shower after their
bomb making class in Leeds , when one notices the other has a huge cork
stuck in his arse.
If you do not mind me saying," stated the second, "that cork looks very
uncomfortable. Why don't you take it out?"
I regret I cannot", lamented the first youth. "It is permanently stuck in my arse."
"I do not understand," said the other.
The first man says, "I was walking along the Headrow And I tripped
over an oil lamp. There was a puff of smoke, and then a huge old man in
Union Jack attire with a white beard and Akubra hat came boiling out. He
said, "I am Ozzie, the Genie. I can grant you one wish."
"But where was Santelli when it was just the Banksters being bailed?
bobn | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:13 am | # "
Well he did have that great segment during the whole TARP brouhaha where he held up two pieces of paper with the words "Bait" and "Switch" while he was on the CME floor.
"Are we going to get a $7,000 increase in our taxes this year?"
even at your very low marginal rates, you probably will pay at least 7K over the next decade when the interest on the debt to pay for the plan is factored in. maybe much more.
It troubles me that Kate Winslet is the cover story of the new issue of Time. If she increases their sales, a whole lotta people gonna read this on page 29:
Wells Fargo is generally considered one of the banks that are least likely to fail. But our stress test says otherwise.
On the same page are graphics showing Assets:Equity ratio, with WFC rated as sicklier than Citi.
even at your very low marginal rates, you probably will pay at least 7K over the next decade when the interest on the debt to pay for the plan is factored in. maybe much more.
bgates | 02.21.09 - 12:16 am | #
If that is true, then I'm not worried. $7,000 over the next decade is virtually nothing. It's less than the cost of a cup of coffee a day. To worry about $7K over the next 10 years is like not standing out in the sunshine with my kids because one photon might cause one of my skin cells to go malignant.
Didn't "building" a hamburger at MacDonald's get reclassified as "manufacturing" in the last couple of years? locust | 02.21.09 - 12:16 am | #
Urban myth - though I know robotics engineers who made 'systems' for french fry machines - no joke. It wasn't to save labor cost [not when the d00d running the fryer was making min wage & the robot goes for something like $30K] it was to (1) reduce injuries - burns & (2) improve quality/consistency of fries. I've actually seen then in use & let him know.
You can laugh but this same engineer designed pick-n-place robots for auto assembly plants including BMW. Also foundry 'shake out' systems for ag tractors.
The issue isn't black/white no matter how bad MSM want to paint it.
It troubles me that Kate Winslet is the cover story of the new issue of Time. If she increases their sales, a whole lotta people gonna read this on page 29:
Winslet was made famous by a Titanic remake also starring a highschool girl I knew at Sam Rayburn High (Pasadnea, TX) as her mother...
"How will the Stimulus cost my household $7,000 ??"
That is just the average cost per household.
Who pays what and when depends on how the expenditure is financed. If borrowed it will add to the debt and the annual interest cost. If the printing press is used then we will all pay through inflation - like a sales tax.
Either way the eventual result will be deficits and printing - thus more inflation.
Just watched Bill Maher. In his "New Rules" he literally called to kill a couple of bankers, chop them into pieces, stuff their balls in their mouths, put mutilated bodies on display by NYSE, etc. The audience approvingly laughed.
Beyond pale. We all love to blame the banksters for our current ills, but to go on live TV (well, not TV, but HBO) and to call for public execution is a very troubling sign of times...
Damn, that's sippin likker not drinkin' likker. [Yes, I agree although I've no snobbery/hangups about blendeds v. vintages.] Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:05 am | #
We're on the west coast, so sippin is the right thang for the time zone. Malmsey bitches!
Just watched Bill Maher. In his "New Rules" he literally called to kill a couple of bankers, chop them into pieces, stuff their balls in their mouths, put mutilated bodies on display by NYSE, etc. The audience approvingly laughed.
Beyond pale. We all love to blame the banksters for our current ills, but to go on live TV (well, not TV, but HBO) and to call for public execution is a very troubling sign of times...
MrM | 02.21.09 - 12:24 am |
Yea I saw it also. The journalist in the green shirt was outstanding IMO (forget her name).
"The bill he signs will create a raft of new programs and be the biggest peacetime spending increase in American history, which will give us larger deficits and create pressure to raise taxes."
Senior Obama advisor David Axelrod, in response:
"The last thing that I think we're looking for at this juncture is advice on fiscal integrity or ethics from Karl Rove."
except there's no GSG you can hold to finesse the sales tax... speaking of which, aren't we finally cracking the two-digit mark in CA any day now? that will be great for retailers.
Beyond pale. We all love to blame the banksters for our current ills, but to go on live TV (well, not TV, but HBO) and to call for public execution is a very troubling sign of times...
MrM | 02.21.09 - 12:24 am | #
I kinda like it.//A new paradigm is needed//
Girl, I knew you and I were soul mates..check my last link Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:04 am | #
Got stone cold busted. Partner does not do the rap thing, but I grew up in what passed for the hood in Seattle. Dre & Snoop Dog, but the misogyny messes it up.
Beyond pale. We all love to blame the banksters for our current ills, but to go on live TV (well, not TV, but HBO) and to call for public execution is a very troubling sign of times... MrM | 02.21.09 - 12:24 am | #
It is going to get worse. Both economy & public mood. Might have to watch 'Cabaret' this weekend. Last shot w/ the credits says it all.
The Obama administration, siding with the Bush White House, contended Friday that detainees in Afghanistan have no constitutional rights.
In a two-sentence court filing, the "Justice Department said it agreed that detainees at Bagram Airfield cannot use U.S. courts to challenge their detention. The filing shocked human rights attorneys.
"The hope we all had in President Obama to lead us on a different path has not turned out as we'd hoped," said Tina Monshipour Foster, a human rights attorney representing a detainee at the Bagram Airfield. "We all expected better."
Like most people I know, I would actually like to pay more taxes so long as they go to things that improve and strengthen the quality of life in my town, state and country. This weekend I brought by brother and his kids to the Maine State Museum which is one of the best small educational museums in the U.S. and we all loved it. The admission was $1. This was all funded by tax dollars.
Poll after poll shows that people are willing to pay high taxes if the returns on those taxes are real, tangible and meaningful, especially to their children.
The subject of fast food as manufacturing was raised in the 2004 Economic Report of the President. I don't know where it went from there. In the New Economics: Fast-Food Factories? NY Times, February 20, 2004
I really liked Kate Winslet in The Reader. The movie is both very good and rather sad
MrM | 02.21.09 - 12:27 am | #
I like her in everything and am a complete sucker for a British accent. I've always wondered what we sound like to the British people but hate to ask. They sound wonderful to me. Have not yet seen The Reader. Must go and alas leave CNBC for a while..
Are they American citizens? Are they on American soil? Not that they don't deserve some form of rights, but since when are foreign nationals on foreign soil subject to the U.S. Constitution?
"?
"The bill he signs will create a raft of new programs and be the biggest peacetime spending increase in American history, which will give us larger deficits and create pressure to raise taxes.""
Um.. did that assclown rove miss it when bush added between 5-7 trillion to the national debt?
Man, I won huge huge money on taking th under on this Bank Failure Friday. Thanks suckers.
Anonymous | 02.21.09 - 12:28 am | #
Now there is an Anonymous we all can hate.
wow. I guess not everyone lived through the W years, especially in CA. what did 130 bil in sacto and almost 3 tril including deficits at the fed level get us again?
excuse the cynicism, but the reality is that the 'bad' stuff has already spoken for the money that the 'good' stuff would go to. your local park or library just doesn't have the lobbying power of KBR, UT, Genentech, Lilly, Raytheon, Boeing, etc... funny how that works.
"excuse the cynicism, but the reality is that the 'bad' stuff has already spoken for the money that the 'good' stuff would go to. your local park or library just doesn't have the lobbying power of KBR, UT, Genentech, Lilly, Raytheon, Boeing, etc... funny how that works."
bgates.. that sounds like a compelling argument for more local taxes and spending and less federal taxes and spending.
Beyond pale. We all love to blame the banksters for our current ills, but to go on live TV (well, not TV, but HBO) and to call for public execution is a very troubling sign of times... MrM | 02.21.09 - 12:24 am | #
How many lives do you get to ruin before it is the same as murder? Dead banksters and anti-regulators sounds like a good start.
And what's the deal with Poland, no one care what Pawlak said ? Bush had a whole spiel about not forgetting Poland was in the coalition, it hasn't been that long since the
Confidential to Sheila: sometimes it's better to conceal than to reveal, sweets. Also, the pepperoni thing was meant as a metaphor. Dear.
Shnaps | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:31 am | #
Back to banker bashing - more signs of growing political schizophrenia
Feb. 21 ( Bloomberg) -- U.S. Senate and House Democrats who steer financial-industry legislation clashed over having the government take over some banks as a way to help lenders that have been hammered by the worst economic slump in 75 years.
Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd said yesterday some banks may have to be taken over for a short time, and his House counterpart, Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank, along with Republican Senator Jon Kyl rejected having the government step in to run banks.
I dont welcome that at all, but I could see how its possible it may happen, Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat, said on Bloomberg Televisions Political Capital with Al Hunt, broadcast this weekend. Im concerned that we may end up having to do that, at least for a short time.
The subject of fast food as manufacturing was raised in the 2004 Economic Report of the President. I don't know where it went from there. locust | 02.21.09 - 12:30 am | #
The issue was also raised in the 80s and has 'some merit'... is it a channel 'outlet' for mass produced food or a stand alone 'service'?
Tough call. We discussed this in some of my classes in mfg systems back then - when I was working toward my masters. Very few actually make stuff but a lot of people 'support' those few - both inside the company and as 'vendors' - where do you draw the line? I really have no answer.
Just an idea regarding the Santelli rant. Here's just one of his "losers."
"May 27 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. Air Force Technical Sergeant Jeffrey VerSteegh, who repairs F-16 jets for the 132nd Fighter Wing, departed Des Moines, Iowa, in April for his third tour in Iraq. The father of four may lose his home when he returns. . . . Kathleen missed work because of breast cancer and they struggled to keep up the house payment, falling behind on other bills. Their bankruptcy was approved by the court a week after VerSteegh left for Iraq."
To be honest, I don't know what percentage of people helped by the plan will be Iraq War vets or hard-working but down on their luck folk vs. slimy, over-consuming deadbeats. I don't know.
But I think we can agree at least some, and maybe even most, people will be folks who if we knew the details of their individual case, we would say, OK, they're all right.
When you look at an individual, a person, it's much harder to demonize, to label.
That's the big problem I have with the Santelli diatribe. It paints a whole class of people as "losers", as others, as sinners, as beneath him.
All you need are a couple of salient examples of real people - Iraq vets are trump cards - to contrast with TV personality Rick, and it's game over.
Joanna writes:
Girl, I knew you and I were soul mates..check my last link
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:04 am | #
Got stone cold busted. Partner does not do the rap thing, but I grew up in what passed for the hood in Seattle. Dre & Snoop Dog, but the misogyny messes it up.
.
Near white center not far from where I live perhaps?
...if the returns on those taxes are real, tangible and meaningful, especially to their children. Doug Watts | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:29 am | #
I don't think taxes would be as big a concern if they were all spent prudently. Unfortunately there's way too much evidence to the contrary, so why vote for more taxes when good portions of the existing ones are misspent?
White people trying to sound like illiterate, uneducated blacks -
Why do you say that? My husband is "educated" he just chooses not to "assimilate", take that as you will...
And what's the deal with Poland, no one care what Pawlak said ? Bush had a whole spiel about not forgetting Poland was in the coalition, it hasn't been that long since then
EvilHenryPaulson | 02.21.09 - 12:35 am |
LOL. It wasn't a whole spiel. It was a retort he used in the third debate against Kerry. It was his only confident moment of the debate. He proudly looked at the camera and announced, "You forgot Poland." There was a veritable smirk on his face.
dryfly,
The only reason I brought it up was the brief discussion on manufacturing figures. If the figures include fast food, then the figures potentially hide bigger problems.
But like I said, I have no idea if the proposed change went anywhere.
"All you need are a couple of salient examples of real people - Iraq vets are trump cards - to contrast with TV personality Rick, and it's game over."
i can see how making heroes out of welfare cases (which is all professional soldiers are in our society) could be an easy step into trying make the entire nation into one
I'm waiting for some hair metal links later to keep me awake. \t Lothar the Rottweiler | \t \t \t \t02.21.09 - 12:16 am | # Lothar the Rottweiler | 02.21.09 - 12:16 am | #
No way! It' 80's night. At Seven Trees we either go to grunge or bagpipes from here.
And check this out. I'm still in tears - YouTube - ? v=k0LkE7V2xTk
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:32 am | #
Tks Joanna I sent that to Angela when she gets home - she will LOVEIT!
"I don't think taxes would be as big a concern if they were all spent prudently. Unfortunately there's way too much evidence to the contrary, so why vote for more taxes when good portions of the existing ones are misspent?"
Ahh.. but the govt spends the same no matter what.....
What people should do is vote for a shift in the tax burden... across the board republican style tax cuts accomplish one thing... a massive redistribution of wealth upward...
And it's not like that's my opinion.. I'm just reporting the facts.. look at the stats for the last 30 years...
"across the board republican style tax cuts accomplish one thing... "
taxing income instead of wealth is something both sides of the aisles agree on - unsurprising, seeing as how most of the senate can live off of muni bonds for the next few centuries without lifting a finger
White people trying to sound like illiterate, uneducated blacks -
Why do you say that? My husband is "educated" he just chooses not to "assimilate", take that as you will...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:38 am | #
We can enjoy ghetto slang or whatever it is. Teevee is ripe with examples of people using accents and slang of others from hillbillies to the rich.. I don't see the harm. I'd rather be having fun than putting them down...
But like I said, I have no idea if the proposed change went anywhere. locust | 02.21.09 - 12:39 am | #
My understanding is the proposals died - but not for a good or bad reasons - but rather because people including the wonks don't understand modern mfg... seriously VERY few actually make stuff but the supply chain & systems are so complex it takes a LARGE number of indirect both inside or outside the firm for every person actually making stuff. The bad news from this is if the demand for the stuff declines it has a MUCH bigger impact than the official numbers would suggest... lay off one assembly guy and 5 others follow. In many mfg operations like automotive & aerospace the multiple really is 5:1.
Don't be messin' wit my gal....I've been to gangsta parties, ya'll Santelli lovers better be on the lookout... Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:36 am | #
Thx CK. I've only been in a couple of firefights. Not what I'd recommend, but good training for modern life.
I'd say you're painting Santelli's remarks a little broadly. Sure, there's lots of people out there that will suffer without having taken excessive risks and/or exercising irrational exuberance. There were before the boom, and there will be more after.
Which brings up a point -- are those suffering economic distress now more deserving of help than those in other times? Say what you will, but TPTB only care because the numbers are greater, and greater numbers suffering have definite political & economic implications.
Why do you say that? My husband is "educated" he just chooses not to "assimilate", take that as you will... Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:38 am | #
Does he talk gangsta (or whatever it is called) at job interviews? Do you?
No? Think about it - if it's so cool and everything, why not?
No, I am talking real long-term general condition, not the latest period for selected assets. And those assets that have declined in market price are largely still generating taxable earnings even while their market price is declining.
There once was a reporter named, 'Rick'
who was tired of the same old schtick.
On GE's bought air,
he cried, 'No fair
Now he turns formulas for tricks.
We can enjoy ghetto slang or whatever it is. Teevee is ripe with examples of people using accents and slang of others from hillbillies to the rich.. I don't see the harm. I'd rather be having fun than putting them down... \t FFDIC | \t \t \t \t02.21.09 - 12:44 am | # FFDIC | 02.21.09 - 12:44 am | #
My family is Scotch-Irish German English Welsh Norman Black Samoan Mexican Chinese...So what color & culture do I pick. I grew up raised by ex-blue-collar hippies in a way poor ghetto hood, and lived in the hood thru the grunge years. So wtf language do I speak, with authentivity?
So this is why there's all this Tenth Amendment rhetoric:
Gov. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana announced Friday that he would reject a portion of expanded unemployment benefits that would eventually require the state to raise taxes on businesses.
And the governors of Alaska, Idaho, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas have said their states may not want to meet the conditions that accompany the money or expand programs that will have to be paid for by the state once the stimulus money runs out.
Simple solution for the states: Take the money and sue later. With the current composition, they might actually win.
p.s.: Joanna, you know I'm an animal lover! Comrade Bear (tj & the bear) | 02.21.09 - 12:53 am | #
Luckily our kitties don;t fight. I tend to suffer from short person's disease. I go for first & last blood, because I may never get a 2nd chance. Used to kick ass on my karate sensei.
Comrade Kristina writes:
Beyond pale. We all love to blame the banksters for our current ills, but to go on live TV (well, not TV, but HBO) and to call for public execution is a very troubling sign of times...
MrM | 02.21.09 - 12:24 am | #
I kinda like it.//A new paradigm is needed//
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:26 am | #
Comrade Kristina,
Before you assign all the blame to the banksters for your situation, perhaps some self-examination is necessary? Think about this:
Did you stay below the 30% of net income towards housing rule when you got your mortgage?
Did you perhaps "stretch" your income on your loan docs? Not saying you did, just asking whether it was so.
Did you look at historical pricing for the house you bought to see if you might be overpaying?
Did you read and understand all the documents that you signed?
Did you take out a home equity loan?
Did you keep a buffer of savings after your downpayment to make the mortgage payments in case you (or your husband) lost your jobs?
I'm hoping you'll realize that a fairly large portion of the blame you assign to those "Wall-Street" types is undeserved. Wishing death (albeit in jest) upon others reflects poorly upon you and only makes Santelli look better - after all, what kind of "loser" buys overpriced real estate on terms they don't understand, at the edge of affordability, in a bubble, gets foreclosed on, and then blames the seller/lender/world for their ills?
Sorry to be harsh, but this nonsense about innocent Main Street vs evil Wall Street gets tiresome for those of us who stayed out of this mess and are paying the price for your idiocy.
bobn
I was very much the same way years ago but if you love your kid and they are into it you try to expand enough to relate if you see you aren't going to change them. Having grown up loving Janis Joplin which my mom hated I had a head start I guess...
"No, I am talking real long-term general condition, not the latest period for selected assets. "
And I'm talking about tax policy, though it is cute to see a reference to mark-to-market allergies. Obviously, the same kind of sleight-of-hand is used in "accounting" as these kinds of policy discussions.
Do an annual estate tax with similar parameters to the "death tax" circa 1999 (obviously at much lower rates).
I don't think taxes would be as big a concern if they were all spent prudently. Unfortunately there's way too much evidence to the contrary, so why vote for more taxes when good portions of the existing ones are misspent?
Comrade Bear (tj & the bear) | 02.21.09 - 12:37 am | #
I agree with you.
But there is a key distinction from the revenue generating level to the revenue disbursement level.
This is like me quitting my job because I disagree with what my wife bought at the grocery store.
There are more productive ways for my wife and I to discuss and decide our specific grocery purchases than for me to be constantly threatening to quit my job because she bought the name brand cheese.
Before you assign all the blame to the banksters for your situation, perhaps some self-examination is necessary? Think about this:
1. Did you stay below the 30% of net income towards housing rule when you got your mortgage? Yes.
2. Did you perhaps "stretch" your income on your loan docs? Not saying you did, just asking whether it was so. Nope
3. Did you look at historical pricing for the house you bought to see if you might be overpaying?
4. Did you read and understand all the documents that you signed? Oh hell yeah
5. Did you take out a home equity loan? Yes, but for infrastructure investment at very good terms, and we're far from underwater.
6. Did you keep a buffer of savings after your downpayment to make the mortgage payments in case you (or your husband) lost your jobs? Again, Oh hell yeah.
bgates,
Of course, but possession of drugs is still illegal in this country. The decision to prosecute the dealers does not reflect on the innocence of the consumers.
Comrade Kristina, Before you assign all the blame to the banksters for your situation, perhaps some self-examination is necessary? Think about this: A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:00 am | #
I seem to recall that Kristina inherited the bad mortgage - I think.
In any case, there are many, many people who would have qualified for decent mortgages that got steered to horrible mortgages due to Yield Spread Premium paid by the Banksters to the originators/brokers.
Additionally, if the world is teetering on the brink of collapse becuiase of crap deals done by people who made hundreds of millions in the process, thjos people are ripe for the picking.
Think about it $100 million or more each of these pigs. There isn't $100 million of honest work on all of wall street, leave alone for individuals.
Sorry to be harsh, but this nonsense about innocent Main Street vs evil Wall Street gets tiresome for those of us who stayed out of this mess and are paying the price for your idiocy.
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:00 am |
You're absolutely right. Blame the little guy for the untold trillions of shitpile-ticking-bombs that was loaded onto the global financial landscape.
Who the fuck are you going to blame when CRE blows up all nice and pretty?
It is much more than tiresome. It is infuriating. Fuck you very much.
Joanna,
If all you say is true, then why is it the fault of the banksters that you are in foreclosure?
Both sides understood the contracts, did their due diligence and proceeded. I'm not sure why you (or anyone in your position) would blame the banksters alone.
For several years, every financial blog post I read about Santelli was positive. It wasn't until he called out Obama's plan that some of you people turned against him. Your political bias is showing.
Santelli tells it how it is. Just because his parent company is GE doesn't mean he agrees with their business decisions. Somehow, I find it hard to believe that you people that are bashing him only work for the most upstanding companies.
Both sides understood the contracts, did their due diligence and proceeded. I'm not sure why you (or anyone in your position) would blame the banksters alone.
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:09 am | #
Oh please. How can a first time homebuyer do "due diligence" ? They do not even know what the term means.
Comrade Kristina,
Before you assign all the blame to the banksters for your situation, perhaps some self-examination is necessary? Think about this:
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:00 am | #
I seem to recall that Kristina inherited the bad mortgage - I think.
I missed that, but I still don't understand why that translates into assigning the blame to Wall Street.
If you inherit a liability, and presumably know of it before you assume it - why is that the fault of the "banksters"?
dose, I think the argument is a little more compelling human terms. not every 'bankster' was wealthy, and i'm sure many mid-mgmt types have had dreams crushed along with restricted BAC, C, WFC, etc shares.
it's all spilt milk now. the battle now is between those who want to reach for the sponge and those who take the geithner/japanese approach, which is standing around while discussing what value milk has after it has been on the floor for a few weeks.
Doug Watts writes:
Oh please. How can a first time homebuyer do "due diligence" ? They do not even know what the term means.
A person who buys his first gun or his first car is expected to know how to operate it - for his own sake. Got to have some responsibility. Also, got to have some regulation - Big Brother is not always evil.
Due diligence is just a fancy term I suppose, but I don't buy the concept that all buyers were clueless. Up until the availability of easy credit and ability to default on a mortgage with little consequence, buyers were doing their due diligence - I know my parents thought long and hard before putting down their savings on their life's biggest investment.
Just because someone is willing to lend you the money, doesn't mean you go all out to spend it? Would you look as kindly upon the irresponsible new college grad who maxes out their credit cards and ruins their credit and then claims ignorance?
If you inherit a liability, and presumably know of it before you assume it - why is that the fault of the "banksters"?
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:13 am | #
Because the long time nature and practice of the home real estate mortgage industry in the United States during the 20th century was that the mortgage broker would not willfully and knowingly execute a mortgage with a person whom they knew would probably not be able to make the payments 1, 3, 5, 7 years down the line. And this is exactly what happened in the 21st century.
No way!! I have family there now. I lived on top of High Point hill for 15 years. So much different now. My mom & dad live in South Park.
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:50 am | #
We're just a stones throw away. High Point ... well that is something else these days. Best of luck with Seven Trees .. we have friends in Bellingham and am up that way 'reasonably' often.
Yeah, Godmotherfuckin forbid, a little person inherit shit? I forgot about the rules.... The facts are, I've been fucked eighteen ways to Sunday and nofuckingbuddy wants to admit it...fuck all ya'll...
NEW YORK (Reuters) Renowned investor George Soros said on Friday the world financial system has effectively disintegrated, adding that there is yet no prospect of a near-term resolution to the crisis.
Soros said the turbulence is actually more severe than during the Great Depression, comparing the current situation to the demise of the Soviet Union.
He said the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers in September marked a turning point in the functioning of the market system.
"We witnessed the collapse of the financial system," Soros said at a Columbia University dinner. "It was placed on life support, and it's still on life support. There's no sign that we are anywhere near a bottom."
Sorta like the people on the Titanic who didn't get onto lifeboats. They couldn't find any bottom.
Do an annual estate tax with similar parameters to the "death tax" circa 1999 (obviously at much lower rates).
Sounds simple but it is not. Tax assets and trillions of dollars of wealth will simply move to offshore trusts out of reach of the US tax system. Happy days for the top bracket taxpayers they can stop paying income tax and move most of their assets out of the US tax environment. It would be difficult to move real estate but that is already taxed on the basis of value. Most other assets can move.
Take the elephant off the middle class' chest.
This can be easily done. Raise the standard deduction to $30,000, and eliminate the FICA payroll tax.
Comrade Kristina writes:
A dose or reality, why am I not? Oh wait because I hate you and your ilk. You will never take my home. I'll kill all of you firs5t, bring it bitch....
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:12 am | #
Good luck with your situation - I mean this sincerely.
Just because someone is willing to lend you the money, doesn't mean you go all out to spend it? Would you look as kindly upon the irresponsible new college grad who maxes out their credit cards and ruins their credit and then claims ignorance?
Please.
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:17 am | #
You are describing predatory lending. What you are describing is exactly why it is illegal. The law assumes for obvious reasons (think a bookie) that the lender has more information than the sucker ... oops ... the borrower.
In a municipal bankruptcy, what assets -- if any -- can creditors claim/put a lien on/seize
Is it a state court that handles it, and a federal court that would handle a state bankruptcy?
Almost all assets that a municipality or political subdivision can be seized upon. For example, a creditor can get a levy for funds in a city's bank account.
All BKs are processed in BK court, which are federal, but not federal courts.
There is no BK provision for states and counties, which are generally thought to as sovereign parts of states. But cities, yes.
Would mortgages really be provided on such a large scale, at such a reasonable interest rate to people that couldn't afford them if it wasn't for the financial engineering / banker types? They effectively inflated the demand for housing and correspondingly construction and housing prices shot up. The collapse of that artificial demand is what is destroying housing values right now. So.. Who is to blame?
"The purpose of chapter 9 is to provide a financially-distressed municipality protection from its creditors while it develops and negotiates a plan for adjusting its debts. Reorganization of the debts of a municipality is typically accomplished either by extending debt maturities, reducing the amount of principal or interest, or refinancing the debt by obtaining a new loan.
Although similar to other chapters in some respects, chapter 9 is significantly different in that there is no provision in the law for liquidation of the assets of the municipality and distribution of the proceeds to creditors. Such a liquidation or dissolution would undoubtedly violate the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution and the reservation to the states of sovereignty over their internal affairs. "
We're just a stones throw away. High Point ... well that is something else these days. Best of luck with Seven Trees .. we have friends in Bellingham and am up that way 'reasonably' often. martyseattle | 02.21.09 - 1:17 am | #
If you check out my hompage link on the comments, it leads to my blog, and a way to contact me if you're in the area. High Point back in the day was a war zone. But excellent life experience.
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:17 am | #
Krisy I thought I was your friend 10 minutes ago? Go to bed and sleep it off. Tomorrow will be a worse day.
Fair enough. His use of "loser" may have been a bit harsh, but I think he was responding to the extreme injustice of responsible taxpayers bailing out the irresponsible. I think the term was more appropriate than inappropriate.
I'll put you down for being in favor of supporting the irresponsible. Somehow, I get the feeling that you are in the minority.
I missed that, but I still don't understand why that translates into assigning the blame to Wall Street.
If you inherit a liability, and presumably know of it before you assume it - why is that the fault of the "banksters"?
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:13 am |
Again, absolutely correct. The 'banksters' have been wrongly maligned. They were just doing their job, making money out of nothingburger.
Really what we need is a Bank(st)er Hall of Fame. We need to put their busts on pedestals in a long hall, Fuld, Dimon, Paulson (a solid gold bust positioned at the climax of the walk), all of them, because of their great service to humanity.
You are positioning yourself for the ultimate reality show: "Banker Apologist Head On A Pike!"
I mean really. How the fuck can you ostensibly equate the failures of the average mortgage buyer with the complete, corrupt and fraudulent activities of our ever-so-beloved banksters?
It does not compute. And for you to come here and point a finger at a bartender and try to exonerate the banksters, well, I have a special pike for you.
Because the long time nature and practice of the home real estate mortgage industry in the United States during the 20th century was that the mortgage broker would not willfully and knowingly execute a mortgage with a person whom they knew would probably not be able to make the payments 1, 3, 5, 7 years down the line. And this is exactly what happened in the 21st century.
It's called predatory lending.
Or loan sharking.
Doug Watts | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:17 am | #
That's a fair point. What I'm annoyed by is that irresponsible borrowers and idiot bankers have dragged neutral parties like me into the mess and are now trying to assign blame to each other when in fact, they both share the blame.
Would mortgages really be provided on such a large scale, at such a reasonable interest rate to people that couldn't afford them if it wasn't for the financial engineering/banker types? They effectively inflated the demand for housing and correspondingly construction and housing prices shot up. The collapse of that artificial demand is what is destroying housing values right now.
BennyJerk | 02.21.09 - 1:22 am | #
That is a very good summation of what is happening now.
Once you decouple the risk of foreclosure from the person who gets the commission for selling the mortgage, this is what happens ... and has now happened.
See here for a better (and hilarious) explanation:
Joanna writes:
If all you say is true, then why is it the fault of the banksters that you are in foreclosure?
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:09 am | #
Whoa. I'm not in foreclosure. I'm sitting pretty, far from underwater and living large for my station in life.
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:21 am | #
Sorry - my apologies. Didn't realize I'd mixed up posts I was responding to.
Yes, Orange County filed for BK, and Chapter 9 does list counties as a political subdivision. I keep forgetting that my home state is somewhat unique; some states extend the general sovereign immunity to include counties, because they are not incorporated entities but extensions of the state, as opposed to municipalities, school districts, etc.
All BKs are processed in BK court, which are federal, but not federal courts.
There is no BK provision for states and counties, which are generally thought to as sovereign parts of states. But cities, yes. Basel Too | 02.21.09 - 1:21 am | #
I'll assume the first quoted sentence is a word game.
As for counties not being able to file BK, what about Orange County, CA circa 1990 whatever?
A dose of Reality writes:
Joanna writes:
If all you say is true, then why is it the fault of the banksters that you are in foreclosure?
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:09 am | #
Whoa. I'm not in foreclosure. I'm sitting pretty, far from underwater and living large for my station in life.
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:21 am | #
Sorry - my apologies. Didn't realize I'd mixed up posts I was responding to.
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:27 am | #
And I guess, we also see the reason why you're not in foreclosure from your response to my checklist!
THe "PC guy" has ideas?!? How'd that work out for IBM?
Good night.
so much for first
listen.
watch.
live.
Oregon doesnt even need banks.
BWAHAHAHA, the Sullybuck! Hoops, they did yo ass...
Hey that guy was just on battlestar galatica.. which I am watching right now
What a show.. best thing I've seen in years.
Credit crunch may only have just begun, S&P warns
By Alistair Barr
The credit crunch may only be in its early stages and a bigger contraction in lending in coming months could have "serious implications" for the U.S. economy, Standard & Poor's Rating Services said Friday.
Credit crunch may only have just begun, S&P warns - MarketWatch
so much for first
The sad part is that I was just between Marianne Faithful's "Working Class Hero" and a twofer of Blondie "Accidents Never Happen" & Elvis Costello's "Accidents Will Happen." Then it's Human Sexual Response and Adam Ant 'til the cops show up.
car in every pot.
chicken in every driveway.
More thread music - YouTube -
This was a great day to sue a government.
"i went to the ATM to take out $60 bucks and the bank said, ' i need to move some things around'"
lawn grass | 02.20.09 - 9:02 pm | # Financial Engineering the term is fraudulent. It is not engineering.
No it is not. Its Engineering Financial shit to look like gold. OK maybe Financial Alchemy.
Cocaine at the check out - why didn't Kudlow think of that?
Problem solved.
Still no love for the jumbo set. One interesting provision of the cramdown proposal.
The [cramdown] proposal would also cap the value of the loans eligible for bankruptcy modification to limits set by mortgage finance firms Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which could be difficult in parts of the country that saw the biggest run-up in prices.
citizen energyecon,
Basically this pile is so big, that it's too tiring to shovel even more up on top
On the plus side Household Financial Obligations as a percent of Disposable Personal Income
is down because people are defaulting faster than they are being fired
Rob Dawg all these years I thought you were a boomer. Marianne Faithful? Blondie? Adam Ant? Arent't these Genex heros?
Soyuz Amerikanskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik coming to a country near you.
Adam Ant '
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:12 pm | #
No way! Mr. Dawg, you have my props.
Da. Yeto noviy svet
About the Santelli rant, I know a lot of ridicule over it but seriously, he's right. How about instead of throwing loot at the banks and the irresponsibe delinquent borrowers the government in its moment of fiscally insane generosity, instead throws the money at the people that actually pay their obligations... a reward for honoring committments instead of rewarding the crooks.
Seriously. Makes sense.
Merry Emergency Christmas, everyone!
S soboi privezli 20 let nazad. Ne ubezhat'.
Wow, that video really sucked and was as stupid as that Daily Show talking head always is in those shows.
aww dry, its sweet you remember kudlow from the 80's.
PPT woke up this afternoon and threw its feeble minions out into the battle zone to hold off the charge for another day. It got pretty close to the edge today. Any day now.
In 1987 Kudlow was hired by Bear, Stearns & Company as their chief economist and senior managing director. He was fired in 1994 after his out-of-control drug use resulted in him missing an important client presentation.[4] He also served as an economic counsel to A.B. Laffer & Associates, which is the San Diego, California, company of Arthur Laffer
source: wikipedia
They should make a satirical movie about the guy's life.
As for whomever said they bought PRU...
Kudlow is also consulting chief economist for American Skandia Life Assurance, Inc., in Connecticut, a subsidiary of insurance giant Prudential Financial.
Run for the hills!
laughing about your troubles, it is a first true bullish sign out there, rofl
Defaulting faster than being fired makes perfect sense. Very logical.
More thread music - YouTube -
80's night is in full effect.
LOL Joanna, you're on a roll...
i just want to manage the project
bearly writes:
About the Santelli rant, I know a lot of ridicule over it but seriously, he's right.
bearly | 02.20.09 - 11:22 pm | #
The companyy that pays his salary took tarp money. I'll pay much more attention to his rants once he resigns. Otherwise his rants amount to I got mine the hell with YOU.
Rob Dawg all these years I thought you were a boomer. Marianne Faithful? Blondie? Adam Ant? Arent't these Genex heros?
eprobert | 02.20.09 - 11:19 pm | #
I was asked to "pursue my academic aspirations elsewhere" from more New England institutions of higher learning than most people can spell. Technically (chronologically) I'm a really late boomer but I'm also a really late bloomer. There was a time when I was pissed that the record store near the Pru was crowded because some O.M.D. guys were sitting on the lower level lonely waiting to sign records. This was back in the "Enola Gay" days.
\tAdam Ant '
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:12 pm | #
No way! Mr. Dawg, you have my props.
\t Joanna
Thanks, Snuck a copy of Billy Idol's "White Wedding" into the reception track of my little sisters' traditional event. Desperate but not Serious.
Defaulting faster than being fired makes perfect sense. Very logical.
Hazard | 02.20.09 - 11:28 pm | #
Ya - who ever said homo economus wasn't rational?
Thanks, Snuck a copy of Billy Idol's "White Wedding" into the reception track of my little sisters' traditional event. Desperate but not Serious.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:31 pm | #
Did the groom stand and deliver? That's all that matters....
The companyy that pays his salary took tarp money. I'll pay much more attention to his rants once he resigns. Otherwise his rants amount to I got mine the hell with YOU.
martyseattle | 02.20.09 - 11:31 pm | #
You mean like when Santelli opened his big fat trap and called people that can't pay their mortgates "losers" and to let the "water carriers" buy them out? Santelli might want to check himself before he wrecks himself. He forgets GE moneybank was a major contributor to the subrime problem, that would be his parent company, has he railed against what they did? Thought not...He needs to shut his F;n piehole...
Did the groom stand and deliver? That's all that matters....
Max
The bride was seen dancing with herself.
Did the groom stand and deliver? That's all that matters....
Max | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:32 pm | #
More a case of Goody Two Shoes than Puss in Boots.
Santelli's rant may spark a blaze, but he has no clue which way the wind will take the flames...
FULL DISCLOSURE: I have a shitty mortgate origninate by GE Money Bank, may they die a thousand deaths...
Just cause Santelli is a hypocrite don't mean the Chicago Tea Party is a bad idea.
The companyy that pays his salary took tarp money. I'll pay much more attention to his rants once he resigns. Otherwise his rants amount to I got mine the hell with YOU.
martyseattle | 02.20.09 - 11:31 pm | #
Exactly. He's no John Galt until he walks out of the pit and off the screen.
Just cause Santelli is a hypocrite don't mean the Chicago Tea Party is a bad idea.
BennyJerk | 02.20.09 - 11:34 pm |
F Santelli, whose to say he isn't betting on the short side of that CDS?
Comedy shows provide more serious news than the "serious news" programs. That is the state we are in.
Now THAT is how you do a f'n late night thread.
I think FDIC should only get goat cheese on their pizza for Fri. nite, for cost cutting.
Did the groom stand and deliver? That's all that matters....
Max | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:32 pm | #
More a case of Goody Two Shoes than Puss in Boots.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:34 pm | #
Keyboard Down!
jeebus that is good.
Rick Santelli is a member of the parasite class.. .people who actually contribute nothing to society but pretend they are the one's actually propping up society
irony
Kristina, who cares? there is a reason his idea has resonance and it has little personally to do with santelli himself.
"You mean like when Santelli opened his big fat trap and called people that can't pay their mortgates "losers" and to let the "water carriers" buy them out? Santelli might want to check himself before he wrecks himself. He forgets GE moneybank was a major contributor to the subrime problem, that would be his parent company, has he railed against what they did? Thought not...He needs to shut his F;n piehole...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:33 pm | # "
Like him or hate him, he was the only one on CNBS warning the result of bailouts versus transparency.
All along he's said bring the shit out into the open and clean up the miss.
Rob Dawg writes:
"Thanks, Snuck a copy of Billy Idol's "White Wedding" into the reception track of my little sisters' traditional event. Desperate but not Serious. ;-)"
Bet you didn't sneak in my version:
randominium: Bank Failure Friday
All along he's said bring the shit out into the open and clean up the miss.
Formerly POIC, trying ZEN | 02.20.09 - 11:38 pm | #
OK, let's watch this bitch burn to the ground, no skin of my teeth...I'm all for pitchforks and pikes...I'm thinking Ricky baby is not...just a guess...
"Rick Santelli is a member of the parasite class.. .people who actually contribute nothing to society but pretend they are the one's actually propping up society
irony
Citiprank | 02.20.09 - 11:37 pm | # "
How many people on this board "contribute to society". Hell I'm a software paper pusher. Not sure really what I contribute at the end of the day.
I suspect many people on this board "contribute" far less than they like to believe.
I suspect many people on this board "contribute" far less than they like to believe.
Formerly POIC, trying ZEN | 02.20.09 - 11:40 pm | #
That can change.
I work for a credit agency. How much do I contribute to society?
I suspect many people on this board "contribute" far less than they like to believe.
Formerly POIC, trying ZEN | 02.20.09 - 11:40 pm | #
Fuck that, I've been a bartender for over 20 years listening to you people whine about everything from your wife fucking your best friend to your investment scheme getting crushed...I've contributed plenty I've also RECORDED plenty...coming to a bookstore near you soon...I bet you tip for shit too...
"How many people on this board "contribute to society". Hell I'm a software paper pusher. Not sure really what I contribute at the end of the day.
I suspect many people on this board "contribute" far less than they like to believe."
Most of us aren't claiming to contribute a lot
I specialize in performance analysis of complex software systems... so in the end all I help you do is get your order faster on amazon or buy an airline ticket faster.....
Does that even matter? Who knows
I bet you tip for shit too
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:42 pm | #
If they do they'll get 'water'... learned that in country kicker bars at about age 16.
"Fuck that, I've been a bartender for over 20 years listening to you people whine about everything from your wife fucking your best friend to your investment scheme getting crushed...I've contributed plenty I've also RECORDED plenty...coming to a bookstore near you soon...I bet you tip for shit too...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:42 pm | # "
Haven't been in a bar in years. And I wasn't including you as part of the non-producers.
Just pointing out there are plenty of people on this board doing paper pusher type jobs railing against others doing paper pushing jobs.
BWAHAHAHA dryfly, you KNOW the game...
from DKos:
"Now I am watching Santelli on Hardball and I am thinking based on some of the things he said that Santelli is either invested in or speaking on behalf of people who are invested in hedge bets against these mortgages being paid back."
"I work for a credit agency. How much do I contribute to society?"
Maybe I stated it wrong.. there's a group of people in society who hate anyone who makes less money than them and always act like they are propping everyone else up... that's what I detest.. as most of them are worthless parasites
I'm not claiming to contirbute anything to society... but I'm also not claiming that I'm propping anyone else up
shit, best policy is to drop ten bucks on the first tip just to get the bartender loose. ease up as the night goes on.
well that was before i was broke.
Haven't been in a bar in years. And I wasn't including you as part of the non-producers.
Fair enought, consider yourself stricken from my rant..
Thanks, Snuck a copy of Billy Idol's "White Wedding" into the reception track of my little sisters' traditional event. Desperate but not Serious.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:31 pm | #
Sweet! We were running dry on the youtubes, I'll pop one of those in.
"Now I am watching Santelli on Hardball and I am thinking based on some of the things he said that Santelli is either invested in or speaking on behalf of people who are invested in hedge bets against these mortgages being paid back."
brushes9 | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:46 pm | #
I was alluding to that earlier, thank you...Santelli better hope to Goddess he's not or he's toast...
"Haven't been in a bar in years. And I wasn't including you as part of the non-producers.
Fair enought, consider yourself stricken from my rant..
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:46 pm | # "
Well that's why I changed my handle. I'm trying to work on my own rants (:
I'm hoping my handle change will help.
I gotta say though when I was working in software in biotech it sure felt a lot more fullfilling then what I do now. Atleast I felt I was on the forefront of something new and hopefully helpful.
Now it's just blaa.
I suspect many people on this board "contribute" far less than they like to believe.
Formerly POIC, trying ZEN | 02.20.09 - 11:40 pm | #
I sanitize telephones. Where do I rank? Answer quick they are calling my boarding pass.
My read was that his water bearers are the folks who exercised prudence on their mortgages and debts. I'm not sure that employment background really figured into his rant.
More a case of Goody Two Shoes than Puss in Boots.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:34 pm | #
OMMFG! I'm trapped in 80's night & broke into the vintage port.
What are bond investors so worried about? Maybe they see the same fiscal future, trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see, as do report authors Alan Auerbach and William Gale:
In 2009, the federal deficit will be larger as a share of the economy than at any time since World War II. The current deficit is due in part to economic weakness and the stimulus, and in part to policy choices made in the past. What is more troubling is that, under what we view as optimistic assumptions, the deficit is projected to average at least $1 trillion per year for the 10 years after 2009, even if the economy returns to full employment and the stimulus package is allowed to expire in two years. The longer-run picture is even bleaker. We estimate a fiscal gap the immediate and permanent increase in taxes or reduction in spending that would keep the long-term debt/GDP ratio at its current level about 7-9 percent of GDP, or between $1 trillion and $1.3 trillion per year in current dollars.
I sanitize telephones. Where do I rank?
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:49 pm | #
Near the top.
I suspect many people on this board "contribute" far less than they like to believe.
dryfly | 02.20.09 - 11:41 pm | #
I have a lot to contribute, but no time to vet out my opinions and provide linkage. I'm an amateur, but I think deep. Just always pressed for time, and burning taxpayer dollars as a state employee.
I'm not sure that employment background really figured into his rant.
fafhrd | 02.20.09 - 11:49 pm | #
GE might not think that way 'specially if they have to go back to the well.
OMMFG! I'm trapped in 80's night & broke into the vintage port.
Joanna | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:50 pm | #
See if you can find some Trinchero Triple Cream (Sutter Home). Used to be only available at the winery but now you can order it.
Nom, nom, nom.
most of the people that i know who somewhat agree with santelli aren't against all prongs of the housing relief. In particular, they don't have issues with the $200B to refinance people into fixed mortgages, especially those facing in resets or recasts
What seems to be more problematic are the people who are so over-leveraged that they can't even afford their conventional mortgage.
"Just pointing out there are plenty of people on this board doing paper pusher type jobs railing against others doing paper pushing jobs."
less than 20% of our economy is manufacturing, and a similarly small percentage is export-based.
and many of those folks probably aren't going to be on an economics-themed forum at 11:50 PM EST.
Caution: Citizen Energycon is correct. Santelli may well have started a brushfire, as his comments do resonate with a large group of people. The same people chronicled in "Whats Wrong With Kansas". The question of where it goes will come down to whether Obama won, or McCain lost.
Do any of us really know if the country turned left? Or did it reject the failed domestic policies of the right??
We find out soon enough I fear.
OT:
Here is some scary, crazy s*&t.....
Guardsmen to conduct urban training at Arcadia in April
YouTube -
Pump up the volume...apropos...
Anyone notice that John Laing Homes filed for BK yesterday?
They were doing a housing development near me for insane prices.
1.2M for 3000 sq ft. home on 3500 sq. foot lots. And crappy 3-level town-homes for 750k.
And ass-hats bought these things.
Now half the development is empty and walled off. These buyers are screwed.
"Do any of us really know if the country turned left? Or did it reject the failed domestic policies of the right??"
LOL.. I would say we turned "less right" Obama is a center to center-right politician...
If you told someone in europe Obama was a leftist they would laugh in your face
well that was before i was broke.
Capitulated (aka dc1000) | 02.20.09 - 11:46 pm | #
Hang in there! it doesn't take long to go from broke to flush when you're motivated. Trust me.
"In particular, they don't have issues with the $200B "
If we could only present a tax bill for those folks that felt this way, itemized correctly....
AIG... $2000
C/BAC backstop... $1500
big refi giveaway... $1200
etc
Joanna, I hope u hit my link...
Shit.. I ain't attending no Carroll Tea Party.
See if you can find some Trinchero Triple Cream (Sutter Home). Used to be only available at the winery but now you can order it.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:53 pm | #
We get this stuff from Rare Wine Co. It's a historical series, Malmsey, Bual & Sercial. I am a total whore for malmsey now.
Pump up the volume...apropos...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:55 pm | #
OMG I have this disc. I love this song. Paid in Full. My poor partner doesn't have the urban upbringing, and skips the rap. But when you cross dance beats with old school rap, I am there.
My Way
payback for decades of GOP support....
just what the CA economy needs, lights out in our bedrock industry
Here's what I like
YouTube - Tupac - Hit Em Up(Uncensored)
OMG I have this disc. I love this song. Paid in Full. My poor partner doesn't have the urban upbringing, and skips the rap. But when you cross dance beats with old school rap, I am there.
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:02 am
Girl, I knew you and I were soul mates..check my last link
It's a historical series, Malmsey, Bual & Sercial. I am a total whore for malmsey now.
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:00 am | #
Damn, that's sippin likker not drinkin' likker. [Yes, I agree although I've no snobbery/hangups about blendeds v. vintages.]
"
less than 20% of our economy is manufacturing, and a similarly small percentage is export-based.
and many of those folks probably aren't going to be on an economics-themed forum at 11:50 PM EST."
Well I work for a software company... I suppose that's "manufacturing" or as close to it as you get in the US these days
This thread is off to a bad start. Anybody got Sheila's cell phone number?
"AIG... $2000
C/BAC backstop... $1500
big refi giveaway... $1200"
And the Stimulus package will cost about close to $7,000 per household.
How much more will be piled on?
"And the Stimulus package will cost about close to $7,000 per household.
How much more will be piled on?"
Honestly.. it doesn't even matter anymore.. The debt is never going to be paid down....
In any case until we cut military spending anything else we do is irrelevant.
Funny that for all the talk about govt. spending on this board no one ever brings up the most massive, least efficient and most corrupt govt agency.. the DoD
I heard me some loud Tupac coming out of the Bushes new Dallas shack today. Homies back in da hood. Biggie times.
FFDIC,I love you, but don't insult pac's memory like that...
This thread is off to a bad start. Anybody got Sheila's cell phone number?
FFDIC | 02.21.09 - 12:05 am | #
If you get it - record the call. Trump Santelli...
It's cool Krisy. George is dope.
LOL FFDIC/// you my hommie...peaaaaace.
Anyone see Waldemar Pawlak publicly talk about voiding all derivatives in Poland in response to naked zloty options being in the money ?!
Well I work for a software company... I suppose that's "manufacturing" or as close to it as you get in the US these days
Citiprank | 02.21.09 - 12:05 am | #
There is way more mfg than people know - what they don't realize is for every guy running an air wrench there are 10-20 others in 'the office' somewhere 'supporting' him. In that respect it isn't different than where most of you all work.
How will the Stimulus cost my household $7,000 ??
Our household has pre-tax earnings of $30,000.
Are we going to get a $7,000 increase in our taxes this year?
G'night folks.
I'd join you but I have to be sober.
FFDIC - hope all's well with your daughter.
About the Santelli rant, I know a lot of ridicule over it but seriously, he's right. How about instead of throwing loot at the banks and the irresponsibe delinquent borrowers the government in its moment of fiscally insane generosity,
bearly | 02.20.09 - 11:22 pm | #
But where was Santelli when it was just the Banksters being bailed?
I means W is dope Krisy. Ya knows da shows in Biggie D...
Christ. I feel I must contribute something now. Something that sums up the situation...
Bleh.
Summation of the financial crisis
Bonus points for putting names to the actor's faces.
"There is way more mfg than people know"
well, 18% of this gdp is still two trillion bucks... though i'm sure both gdp and total mfg output are falling at a parabolic rate...
who knows, the % may actually be increasing this year though, seeing as how FIRE writ large is evaporating.
Anybody got Sheila's cellie?
She's been sexting me all night.
The genie and the Cork or watch what you say
Two young terrorists are in a locker room taking a shower after their
bomb making class in Leeds , when one notices the other has a huge cork
stuck in his arse.
If you do not mind me saying," stated the second, "that cork looks very
uncomfortable. Why don't you take it out?"
I regret I cannot", lamented the first youth. "It is permanently stuck in my arse."
"I do not understand," said the other.
The first man says, "I was walking along the Headrow And I tripped
over an oil lamp. There was a puff of smoke, and then a huge old man in
Union Jack attire with a white beard and Akubra hat came boiling out. He
said, "I am Ozzie, the Genie. I can grant you one wish."
I said, "No shit?"
Hello Born and Bred American Dopes.
Crooks, Evildoers... pure american dopes
FFDIC, gotcha hommie...hope Angela is dope...
"But where was Santelli when it was just the Banksters being bailed?
bobn | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:13 am | # "
Well he did have that great segment during the whole TARP brouhaha where he held up two pieces of paper with the words "Bait" and "Switch" while he was on the CME floor.
But where was Santelli when it was just the Banksters being bailed?
bobn | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:13 am | #
Why does it matter? Is he any less right about his homeowner rant because he didn't get the same credit for his tarp rant?
"Are we going to get a $7,000 increase in our taxes this year?"
even at your very low marginal rates, you probably will pay at least 7K over the next decade when the interest on the debt to pay for the plan is factored in. maybe much more.
lol
Okay. We can't have a New Order without The Cure for what ailed us prior now can we? YouTube -
I'm waiting for some hair metal links later to keep me awake.
Didn't "building" a hamburger at MacDonald's get reclassified as "manufacturing" in the last couple of years?
Shnaps UR HOT. S UB da 1@69!
FFCID, BWAHAHAHA funny...
But where was Santelli when it was just the Banksters being bailed?
In the pits, ridiculing the bailout whenever he had a couple of uninterrupted seconds.
$1tn / 150mn households = $6,666 per HH
The deficit will be larger than that for a few years
It troubles me that Kate Winslet is the cover story of the new issue of Time. If she increases their sales, a whole lotta people gonna read this on page 29:
Wells Fargo is generally considered one of the banks that are least likely to fail. But our stress test says otherwise.
On the same page are graphics showing Assets:Equity ratio, with WFC rated as sicklier than Citi.
Angela da know de shit...Krisy girl..
"The deficit will be larger than that"
and the actual households effectively paying taxes much smaller - less than 130 mil will be on the nonfarm payroll by next winter, easy
even at your very low marginal rates, you probably will pay at least 7K over the next decade when the interest on the debt to pay for the plan is factored in. maybe much more.
bgates | 02.21.09 - 12:16 am | #
If that is true, then I'm not worried. $7,000 over the next decade is virtually nothing. It's less than the cost of a cup of coffee a day. To worry about $7K over the next 10 years is like not standing out in the sunshine with my kids because one photon might cause one of my skin cells to go malignant.
I always like listening Jim Rogers when he is interviewed about what's going on.
Interviewer "But if we don't bailout the banks we're in big trouble"
Jim "We don't have the money"
Interviewer "But things will fall apart"
Jim "We don't have the money"
Interviewer "What do you suggest?"
Jim "Let the banks go and get rid of the federal reserve"
Inbtervewer "But we need to bailout the anks"
Jim "We don't have the money"
Always deadpan and consistent with his message.
Didn't "building" a hamburger at MacDonald's get reclassified as "manufacturing" in the last couple of years?
locust | 02.21.09 - 12:16 am | #
Urban myth - though I know robotics engineers who made 'systems' for french fry machines - no joke. It wasn't to save labor cost [not when the d00d running the fryer was making min wage & the robot goes for something like $30K] it was to (1) reduce injuries - burns & (2) improve quality/consistency of fries. I've actually seen then in use & let him know.
You can laugh but this same engineer designed pick-n-place robots for auto assembly plants including BMW. Also foundry 'shake out' systems for ag tractors.
The issue isn't black/white no matter how bad MSM want to paint it.
It troubles me that Kate Winslet is the cover story of the new issue of Time. If she increases their sales, a whole lotta people gonna read this on page 29:
Winslet was made famous by a Titanic remake also starring a highschool girl I knew at Sam Rayburn High (Pasadnea, TX) as her mother...
kate winslet titanic - Google Search
"How will the Stimulus cost my household $7,000 ??"
That is just the average cost per household.
Who pays what and when depends on how the expenditure is financed. If borrowed it will add to the debt and the annual interest cost. If the printing press is used then we will all pay through inflation - like a sales tax.
Either way the eventual result will be deficits and printing - thus more inflation.
I am not complaining - just sayin'.
Joanna, I hope u hit my link...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.20.09 - 11:58 pm | #
Yes we did! Thank you. I love Eric B & Rakim. I actually own that disc.
In the pits, ridiculing the bailout whenever he had a couple of uninterrupted seconds.
fafhrd | 02.21.09 - 12:18 am | #
Collecting his check from GE who was busy collecting bailouts.
Just watched Bill Maher. In his "New Rules" he literally called to kill a couple of bankers, chop them into pieces, stuff their balls in their mouths, put mutilated bodies on display by NYSE, etc. The audience approvingly laughed.
Beyond pale. We all love to blame the banksters for our current ills, but to go on live TV (well, not TV, but HBO) and to call for public execution is a very troubling sign of times...
FFDIC, Angela know dat...Best wishes fo sho../
"is like not standing out in the sunshine with my kids"
I guess they won't be wanting that 7K after 4% interest when college rolls around... which is fine, the fed has other plans for it
Damn, that's sippin likker not drinkin' likker. [Yes, I agree although I've no snobbery/hangups about blendeds v. vintages.]
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:05 am | #
We're on the west coast, so sippin is the right thang for the time zone. Malmsey bitches!
Just watched Bill Maher. In his "New Rules" he literally called to kill a couple of bankers, chop them into pieces, stuff their balls in their mouths, put mutilated bodies on display by NYSE, etc. The audience approvingly laughed.
Beyond pale. We all love to blame the banksters for our current ills, but to go on live TV (well, not TV, but HBO) and to call for public execution is a very troubling sign of times...
MrM | 02.21.09 - 12:24 am |
Yea I saw it also. The journalist in the green shirt was outstanding IMO (forget her name).
Also from Time:
Karl Rove on the new stimulus:
"The bill he signs will create a raft of new programs and be the biggest peacetime spending increase in American history, which will give us larger deficits and create pressure to raise taxes."
Senior Obama advisor David Axelrod, in response:
"The last thing that I think we're looking for at this juncture is advice on fiscal integrity or ethics from Karl Rove."
hee hee hee
" like a sales tax."
except there's no GSG you can hold to finesse the sales tax... speaking of which, aren't we finally cracking the two-digit mark in CA any day now? that will be great for retailers.
Beyond pale. We all love to blame the banksters for our current ills, but to go on live TV (well, not TV, but HBO) and to call for public execution is a very troubling sign of times...
MrM | 02.21.09 - 12:24 am | #
I kinda like it.//A new paradigm is needed//
Girl, I knew you and I were soul mates..check my last link
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:04 am | #
Got stone cold busted. Partner does not do the rap thing, but I grew up in what passed for the hood in Seattle. Dre & Snoop Dog, but the misogyny messes it up.
Beyond pale. We all love to blame the banksters for our current ills, but to go on live TV (well, not TV, but HBO) and to call for public execution is a very troubling sign of times...
MrM | 02.21.09 - 12:24 am | #
It is going to get worse. Both economy & public mood. Might have to watch 'Cabaret' this weekend. Last shot w/ the credits says it all.
Joanna, girl, we need to kick it...Think Florida, cats, and sun..
FFDIC writes:
It troubles me that Kate Winslet is the cover story of the new issue of Time.
I really liked Kate Winslet in The Reader. The movie is both very good and rather sad
Man, I won huge huge money on taking th under on this Bank Failure Friday. Thanks suckers.
" Last shot w/ the credits says it all."
that kid gave a great performance with 'the future' tune. of course, his real-life counterpart probably died at Kursk.
The Obama administration, siding with the Bush White House, contended Friday that detainees in Afghanistan have no constitutional rights.
In a two-sentence court filing, the "Justice Department said it agreed that detainees at Bagram Airfield cannot use U.S. courts to challenge their detention. The filing shocked human rights attorneys.
"The hope we all had in President Obama to lead us on a different path has not turned out as we'd hoped," said Tina Monshipour Foster, a human rights attorney representing a detainee at the Bagram Airfield. "We all expected better."
Obama Backs Bush On Bagram Detainees
Never kill a banker. There is a steep penalty for early withdrawals and you may have to pay taxes.
Bgates --
Like most people I know, I would actually like to pay more taxes so long as they go to things that improve and strengthen the quality of life in my town, state and country. This weekend I brought by brother and his kids to the Maine State Museum which is one of the best small educational museums in the U.S. and we all loved it. The admission was $1. This was all funded by tax dollars.
Poll after poll shows that people are willing to pay high taxes if the returns on those taxes are real, tangible and meaningful, especially to their children.
The stimulus is a drop in the bucket.. the govt was bankrupted long ago
Again.... if you want to complain about spending and you aren't talking about military spending then you are talking about the wrong thing
"In a two-sentence court filing"
that's unsurprising. the response to the bloomberg FOIA is something i'm very interested in reading.
Posted earlier, sorry for the repetition; thought the night crowd might like it.
How many Treasury Secretaries does it take to change a lightbulb?
I'll tell you next week.
The subject of fast food as manufacturing was raised in the 2004 Economic Report of the President. I don't know where it went from there.
In the New Economics: Fast-Food Factories? NY Times, February 20, 2004
I really liked Kate Winslet in The Reader. The movie is both very good and rather sad
MrM | 02.21.09 - 12:27 am | #
I like her in everything and am a complete sucker for a British accent. I've always wondered what we sound like to the British people but hate to ask. They sound wonderful to me. Have not yet seen The Reader. Must go and alas leave CNBC for a while..
detainees at Bagram Airfield
Are they American citizens? Are they on American soil? Not that they don't deserve some form of rights, but since when are foreign nationals on foreign soil subject to the U.S. Constitution?
She validates that whole "treat the whores like princesses and the princesses like whores" philosophy.
Confidential to Sheila: sometimes it's better to conceal than to reveal, sweets. Also, the pepperoni thing was meant as a metaphor. Dear.
aren't we finally cracking the two-digit mark in CA any day now? that will be great for retailers.
bgates | 02.21.09 - 12:26 am | #
What Barack giveth Arnold taketh away.
"?
"The bill he signs will create a raft of new programs and be the biggest peacetime spending increase in American history, which will give us larger deficits and create pressure to raise taxes.""
Um.. did that assclown rove miss it when bush added between 5-7 trillion to the national debt?
Heck.. Iraq alone is going to run 2-3 trillion.
Of course Rove is a traitor.. but whatever
YouTube - 2pac-Gangsters paradise
Joanna, for you, eye candy, good Goddess how did we let that happen?
FFDIC you and yours in prayer, Vive la Angela
Man, I won huge huge money on taking th under on this Bank Failure Friday. Thanks suckers.
Anonymous | 02.21.09 - 12:28 am | #
Now there is an Anonymous we all can hate.
"Poll after poll shows"
wow. I guess not everyone lived through the W years, especially in CA. what did 130 bil in sacto and almost 3 tril including deficits at the fed level get us again?
excuse the cynicism, but the reality is that the 'bad' stuff has already spoken for the money that the 'good' stuff would go to. your local park or library just doesn't have the lobbying power of KBR, UT, Genentech, Lilly, Raytheon, Boeing, etc... funny how that works.
I heard me some loud Tupac coming out of the Bushes new Dallas shack today. Homies back in da hood. Biggie times.
FFDIC | 02.21.09 - 12:08 am | #
OMMMFG! I can believe it! I'm an oG though 187 on a muthafuckin cop & all. LOL and Sir Mix-a-Lot.
And check this out. I'm still in tears - YouTube - Sir Mix-a-Lot - Baby Got Back (I Like Big Butts) - Acoustic Cover
Joanna, girl, we need to kick it...Think Florida, cats, and sun..
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:27 am | #
You had her at "cats".
Cats, kind of scrawny. Now rabbits, I can see that.
"excuse the cynicism, but the reality is that the 'bad' stuff has already spoken for the money that the 'good' stuff would go to. your local park or library just doesn't have the lobbying power of KBR, UT, Genentech, Lilly, Raytheon, Boeing, etc... funny how that works."
bgates.. that sounds like a compelling argument for more local taxes and spending and less federal taxes and spending.
sigh.. but that's probably not happening
Beyond pale. We all love to blame the banksters for our current ills, but to go on live TV (well, not TV, but HBO) and to call for public execution is a very troubling sign of times...
MrM | 02.21.09 - 12:24 am | #
How many lives do you get to ruin before it is the same as murder? Dead banksters and anti-regulators sounds like a good start.
The next generation will be much more careful.
Maxine Waters = new Ron Paul ?
And what's the deal with Poland, no one care what Pawlak said ? Bush had a whole spiel about not forgetting Poland was in the coalition, it hasn't been that long since the
Confidential to Sheila: sometimes it's better to conceal than to reveal, sweets. Also, the pepperoni thing was meant as a metaphor. Dear.
Shnaps | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:31 am | #
....WET@PEP!
Back to banker bashing - more signs of growing political schizophrenia
Feb. 21 ( Bloomberg) -- U.S. Senate and House Democrats who steer financial-industry legislation clashed over having the government take over some banks as a way to help lenders that have been hammered by the worst economic slump in 75 years.
Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd said yesterday some banks may have to be taken over for a short time, and his House counterpart, Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank, along with Republican Senator Jon Kyl rejected having the government step in to run banks.
I dont welcome that at all, but I could see how its possible it may happen, Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat, said on Bloomberg Televisions Political Capital with Al Hunt, broadcast this weekend. Im concerned that we may end up having to do that, at least for a short time.
"How many lives do you get to ruin before it is the same as murder? Dead banksters and anti-regulators sounds like a good start.
The next generation will be much more careful."
The banksters are FAR worse than murderers.. their fraud will indirectly kill 10s or 100s of thousands.
FFDIC, Angela know dat...Best wishes fo sho../
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:24 am | #
White people trying to sound like illiterate, uneducated blacks - yecchhhh
had her at "cats".
Comrade Bear (tj & the bear) |
Don't be messin' wit my gal....I've been to gangsta parties, ya'll Santelli lovers better be on the lookout...
The subject of fast food as manufacturing was raised in the 2004 Economic Report of the President. I don't know where it went from there.
locust | 02.21.09 - 12:30 am | #
The issue was also raised in the 80s and has 'some merit'... is it a channel 'outlet' for mass produced food or a stand alone 'service'?
Tough call. We discussed this in some of my classes in mfg systems back then - when I was working toward my masters. Very few actually make stuff but a lot of people 'support' those few - both inside the company and as 'vendors' - where do you draw the line? I really have no answer.
"sigh.. but that's probably not happening"
It's a shame that the small-govt mantra was warped by special interests and wall st sleazeballs from day one.
the evils associated with norquist's ideeology aside, draining that bathtub isn't such a bad idea.
"Maxine Waters = new Ron Paul ?"
WTF? New Ron Paul nightmare, maybe.
Just an idea regarding the Santelli rant. Here's just one of his "losers."
"May 27 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. Air Force Technical Sergeant Jeffrey VerSteegh, who repairs F-16 jets for the 132nd Fighter Wing, departed Des Moines, Iowa, in April for his third tour in Iraq. The father of four may lose his home when he returns. . . . Kathleen missed work because of breast cancer and they struggled to keep up the house payment, falling behind on other bills. Their bankruptcy was approved by the court a week after VerSteegh left for Iraq."
To be honest, I don't know what percentage of people helped by the plan will be Iraq War vets or hard-working but down on their luck folk vs. slimy, over-consuming deadbeats. I don't know.
But I think we can agree at least some, and maybe even most, people will be folks who if we knew the details of their individual case, we would say, OK, they're all right.
When you look at an individual, a person, it's much harder to demonize, to label.
That's the big problem I have with the Santelli diatribe. It paints a whole class of people as "losers", as others, as sinners, as beneath him.
All you need are a couple of salient examples of real people - Iraq vets are trump cards - to contrast with TV personality Rick, and it's game over.
Joanna writes:
Girl, I knew you and I were soul mates..check my last link
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:04 am | #
Got stone cold busted. Partner does not do the rap thing, but I grew up in what passed for the hood in Seattle. Dre & Snoop Dog, but the misogyny messes it up.
.
Near white center not far from where I live perhaps?
...if the returns on those taxes are real, tangible and meaningful, especially to their children.
Doug Watts | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:29 am | #
I don't think taxes would be as big a concern if they were all spent prudently. Unfortunately there's way too much evidence to the contrary, so why vote for more taxes when good portions of the existing ones are misspent?
bobn writes:
FFDIC, Angela know dat...Best wishes fo sho../
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:24 am | #
White people trying to sound like illiterate, uneducated blacks -
Why do you say that? My husband is "educated" he just chooses not to "assimilate", take that as you will...
Rick Santelli = rabbit
(tip, look somewhere else_
Dead banksters and anti-regulators sounds like a good start.
That's how French and Russian revolutions started. People should really read more Dostoevsky.
And what's the deal with Poland, no one care what Pawlak said ? Bush had a whole spiel about not forgetting Poland was in the coalition, it hasn't been that long since then
EvilHenryPaulson | 02.21.09 - 12:35 am |
LOL. It wasn't a whole spiel. It was a retort he used in the third debate against Kerry. It was his only confident moment of the debate. He proudly looked at the camera and announced, "You forgot Poland." There was a veritable smirk on his face.
You forgot Poland!
I watched it live, and swore that I had never seen such political comedy ever.
dryfly,
The only reason I brought it up was the brief discussion on manufacturing figures. If the figures include fast food, then the figures potentially hide bigger problems.
But like I said, I have no idea if the proposed change went anywhere.
"All you need are a couple of salient examples of real people - Iraq vets are trump cards - to contrast with TV personality Rick, and it's game over."
i can see how making heroes out of welfare cases (which is all professional soldiers are in our society) could be an easy step into trying make the entire nation into one
I'm waiting for some hair metal links later to keep me awake.
\t Lothar the Rottweiler | \t \t \t \t02.21.09 - 12:16 am | #
Lothar the Rottweiler | 02.21.09 - 12:16 am | #
No way! It' 80's night. At Seven Trees we either go to grunge or bagpipes from here.
@MrM
Well posted
"You fools and buffoons, can you ever do anything rational?' 'You're right,' I said. 'Can we ever do anything rational?"
And check this out. I'm still in tears - YouTube - ? v=k0LkE7V2xTk
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:32 am | #
Tks Joanna I sent that to Angela when she gets home - she will LOVEIT!
"I don't think taxes would be as big a concern if they were all spent prudently. Unfortunately there's way too much evidence to the contrary, so why vote for more taxes when good portions of the existing ones are misspent?"
Ahh.. but the govt spends the same no matter what.....
What people should do is vote for a shift in the tax burden... across the board republican style tax cuts accomplish one thing... a massive redistribution of wealth upward...
And it's not like that's my opinion.. I'm just reporting the facts.. look at the stats for the last 30 years...
So how much booze should a person stock, for their own use, barter is extra.
"across the board republican style tax cuts accomplish one thing... "
taxing income instead of wealth is something both sides of the aisles agree on - unsurprising, seeing as how most of the senate can live off of muni bonds for the next few centuries without lifting a finger
White people trying to sound like illiterate, uneducated blacks -
Why do you say that? My husband is "educated" he just chooses not to "assimilate", take that as you will...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:38 am | #
We can enjoy ghetto slang or whatever it is. Teevee is ripe with examples of people using accents and slang of others from hillbillies to the rich.. I don't see the harm. I'd rather be having fun than putting them down...
YouTube - 2Pac - I Get Around
MMMMMMMM Oh yeah...
Joanna, girl, we need to kick it...Think Florida, cats, and sun..
\t Comrade Kristina | \t \t \tHomepage | \t02.21.09 - 12:27 am | #
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:27 am | #
I like it. Road trip!!
"So how much booze should a person stock, for their own use,..."
You should have a six month supply saved.
But like I said, I have no idea if the proposed change went anywhere.
locust | 02.21.09 - 12:39 am | #
My understanding is the proposals died - but not for a good or bad reasons - but rather because people including the wonks don't understand modern mfg... seriously VERY few actually make stuff but the supply chain & systems are so complex it takes a LARGE number of indirect both inside or outside the firm for every person actually making stuff. The bad news from this is if the demand for the stuff declines it has a MUCH bigger impact than the official numbers would suggest... lay off one assembly guy and 5 others follow. In many mfg operations like automotive & aerospace the multiple really is 5:1.
"taxing income instead of wealth is something both sides of the aisles agree on"
As a practical matter taxing income is a tax on wealth, as almost all wealth creates income.
THX, follow up:
Spam, useful or not? (high protein, but high salt)
I like it. Road trip!!
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:44 am | #
Whenever you are ready girl...I'm open for business//
Well said, FFDIC, hear hear!
Spam is fine if you just put it between your legs.
Cats, kind of scrawny. Now rabbits, I can see that.
Its TEOTWAWKI, and I lost my A | 02.21.09 - 12:34 am | #
Naw, I like fat beef cattle, home raised.
Wet@pep
I've been outdone. Maxi@waters any more perverse?
Pssst, see prev thread. Finally gonna be in for a visit.
Don't be messin' wit my gal....I've been to gangsta parties, ya'll Santelli lovers better be on the lookout...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:36 am | #
Thx CK. I've only been in a couple of firefights. Not what I'd recommend, but good training for modern life.
MTHood,
I'd say you're painting Santelli's remarks a little broadly. Sure, there's lots of people out there that will suffer without having taken excessive risks and/or exercising irrational exuberance. There were before the boom, and there will be more after.
Which brings up a point -- are those suffering economic distress now more deserving of help than those in other times? Say what you will, but TPTB only care because the numbers are greater, and greater numbers suffering have definite political & economic implications.
A visit from Super Shnaps I gotta check that thread out man. I need a friend right now..
1 bank shutdown + 5 accords = unsatisfied
Joanna,
Amen....My baby from the N. side of the STL, he a thug first and foremost..
" as almost all wealth creates income."
obviously you missed the past 8 months...
and my point about muni bonds.
you're confusing the abstract with the real.
Near white center not far from where I live perhaps?
martyseattle | 02.21.09 - 12:37 am | #
No way!! I have family there now. I lived on top of High Point hill for 15 years. So much different now. My mom & dad live in South Park.
A visit from Super Shnaps I gotta check that thread out man. I need a friend right now..
FFDIC | 02.21.09 - 12:49 am |
A friend forever indebted...no worries FFDIC..we love you...
If you want to check what a really good econ presentation is like, you should read this http://www.nber.org/~wbuiter/health.pdf
Do yourself a favor
Why do you say that? My husband is "educated" he just chooses not to "assimilate", take that as you will...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:38 am | #
Does he talk gangsta (or whatever it is called) at job interviews? Do you?
No? Think about it - if it's so cool and everything, why not?
taxing income instead of wealth is something both sides of the aisles agree on
The constitutionality of the federal government taxing wealth directly has never been fully resolved.
I've only been in a couple of firefights.
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:48 am | #
How about catfights? ;-) Seriously, Kristina, have you seen all the cats on her blog???
p.s.: Joanna, you know I'm an animal lover!
I'd like to see manufacturing come back to the US. I don't know if it'll happen but we really need to make things again.
Does he talk gangsta (or whatever it is called) at job interviews? Do you?
bobn | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:51 am | #
That'd depend on the job, wouldn't it?
bobn, of course not tnat is not the point though really, is it?
"you're confusing the abstract with the real."
No, I am talking real long-term general condition, not the latest period for selected assets. And those assets that have declined in market price are largely still generating taxable earnings even while their market price is declining.
Shnaps checked prior 2 Ts and didn't see it - post again here...or direct.
Rummey talked gangsta for years from what I could tell...
There once was a reporter named, 'Rick'
who was tired of the same old schtick.
On GE's bought air,
he cried, 'No fair
Now he turns formulas for tricks.
We can enjoy ghetto slang or whatever it is. Teevee is ripe with examples of people using accents and slang of others from hillbillies to the rich.. I don't see the harm. I'd rather be having fun than putting them down...
\t FFDIC | \t \t \t \t02.21.09 - 12:44 am | #
FFDIC | 02.21.09 - 12:44 am | #
My family is Scotch-Irish German English Welsh Norman Black Samoan Mexican Chinese...So what color & culture do I pick. I grew up raised by ex-blue-collar hippies in a way poor ghetto hood, and lived in the hood thru the grunge years. So wtf language do I speak, with authentivity?
Are those suffering economic distress now more deserving of help than those in other times?
Strawman.
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:57 am | #
U do blogger good hon..
A visit from Super Shnaps I gotta check that thread out man. I need a friend right now..
FFDIC | 02.21.09 - 12:49 am | #
Hang in there FFDIC! Anything is possible with enough determination and support.
bobn, of course not tnat is not the point though really, is it?
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:54 am | #
When you're trying your best to impress someone that you are bright and responsible, you don't talk "gangsta".
Joking around here is different I guess - whatever.
I just find the whole rap-gangsta thing repulsive, actually. Are you a bitch or a "ho"? I'm presuming neither, BTW.
"Rap Music" is an oxymoron to my tastes.
So this is why there's all this Tenth Amendment rhetoric:
Gov. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana announced Friday that he would reject a portion of expanded unemployment benefits that would eventually require the state to raise taxes on businesses.
And the governors of Alaska, Idaho, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas have said their states may not want to meet the conditions that accompany the money or expand programs that will have to be paid for by the state once the stimulus money runs out.
Simple solution for the states: Take the money and sue later. With the current composition, they might actually win.
Joanna, right on...you "rap",..FFCIC, you rock as well
p.s.: Joanna, you know I'm an animal lover!
Comrade Bear (tj & the bear) | 02.21.09 - 12:53 am | #
Luckily our kitties don;t fight. I tend to suffer from short person's disease. I go for first & last blood, because I may never get a 2nd chance. Used to kick ass on my karate sensei.
Comrade Kristina writes:
Beyond pale. We all love to blame the banksters for our current ills, but to go on live TV (well, not TV, but HBO) and to call for public execution is a very troubling sign of times...
MrM | 02.21.09 - 12:24 am | #
I kinda like it.//A new paradigm is needed//
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:26 am | #
Comrade Kristina,
Before you assign all the blame to the banksters for your situation, perhaps some self-examination is necessary? Think about this:
I'm hoping you'll realize that a fairly large portion of the blame you assign to those "Wall-Street" types is undeserved. Wishing death (albeit in jest) upon others reflects poorly upon you and only makes Santelli look better - after all, what kind of "loser" buys overpriced real estate on terms they don't understand, at the edge of affordability, in a bubble, gets foreclosed on, and then blames the seller/lender/world for their ills?
Sorry to be harsh, but this nonsense about innocent Main Street vs evil Wall Street gets tiresome for those of us who stayed out of this mess and are paying the price for your idiocy.
bobn, continue to manufacture the paradigm that fits your outcome...
bobn
I was very much the same way years ago but if you love your kid and they are into it you try to expand enough to relate if you see you aren't going to change them. Having grown up loving Janis Joplin which my mom hated I had a head start I guess...
1.2.3, PANIC
Soros sees no bottom for world financial collapse
| Reuters
Strawman.
Doug Watts | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:57 am | #
Just a segue into pointing out DC's real motivation.
"No, I am talking real long-term general condition, not the latest period for selected assets. "
And I'm talking about tax policy, though it is cute to see a reference to mark-to-market allergies. Obviously, the same kind of sleight-of-hand is used in "accounting" as these kinds of policy discussions.
Do an annual estate tax with similar parameters to the "death tax" circa 1999 (obviously at much lower rates).
Take the elephant off the middle class' chest.
Gee, I wonder who doesn't like the idea?
bobn, continue to manufacture the paradigm that fits your outcome...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:01 am | #
Really, it comes down - here - to an opinion I probably should have kept to myself.
But in real life? Now that paradigm is totally different, no?
A dose of reality feel free to suck my little pink dick, really. No, to any of that. My house is above water, the bankesters will take it though...
I don't think taxes would be as big a concern if they were all spent prudently. Unfortunately there's way too much evidence to the contrary, so why vote for more taxes when good portions of the existing ones are misspent?
Comrade Bear (tj & the bear) | 02.21.09 - 12:37 am | #
I agree with you.
But there is a key distinction from the revenue generating level to the revenue disbursement level.
This is like me quitting my job because I disagree with what my wife bought at the grocery store.
There are more productive ways for my wife and I to discuss and decide our specific grocery purchases than for me to be constantly threatening to quit my job because she bought the name brand cheese.
Before you assign all the blame to the banksters for your situation, perhaps some self-examination is necessary? Think about this:
1. Did you stay below the 30% of net income towards housing rule when you got your mortgage?
Yes.
2. Did you perhaps "stretch" your income on your loan docs? Not saying you did, just asking whether it was so.
Nope
3. Did you look at historical pricing for the house you bought to see if you might be overpaying?
4. Did you read and understand all the documents that you signed?
Oh hell yeah
5. Did you take out a home equity loan?
Yes, but for infrastructure investment at very good terms, and we're far from underwater.
6. Did you keep a buffer of savings after your downpayment to make the mortgage payments in case you (or your husband) lost your jobs?
Again, Oh hell yeah.
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:00 am | #
"I'm hoping you'll realize that a fairly large portion of the blame you assign to those "Wall-Street" types is undeserved"
perhaps, but there's a reason the DEA tends to be more interested in the dealers than the users
Rob Dawg (rated Growwl)came in first
so he's a bot as well?
So wtf language do I speak, with authentivity?
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:57 am | #
Just speak the truff.
BTW, with that background, I don't think there's a place for you on the 2010 census.
I have to get some sleep
Soros said the turbulence is actually more severe than during the Great Depression
Volcker, Soros... CR? Come to the dark side!
bgates,
Of course, but possession of drugs is still illegal in this country. The decision to prosecute the dealers does not reflect on the innocence of the consumers.
Comrade Kristina,
Before you assign all the blame to the banksters for your situation, perhaps some self-examination is necessary? Think about this:
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:00 am | #
I seem to recall that Kristina inherited the bad mortgage - I think.
In any case, there are many, many people who would have qualified for decent mortgages that got steered to horrible mortgages due to Yield Spread Premium paid by the Banksters to the originators/brokers.
Additionally, if the world is teetering on the brink of collapse becuiase of crap deals done by people who made hundreds of millions in the process, thjos people are ripe for the picking.
Think about it $100 million or more each of these pigs. There isn't $100 million of honest work on all of wall street, leave alone for individuals.
Sorry to be harsh, but this nonsense about innocent Main Street vs evil Wall Street gets tiresome for those of us who stayed out of this mess and are paying the price for your idiocy.
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:00 am |
You're absolutely right. Blame the little guy for the untold trillions of shitpile-ticking-bombs that was loaded onto the global financial landscape.
Who the fuck are you going to blame when CRE blows up all nice and pretty?
It is much more than tiresome. It is infuriating. Fuck you very much.
Yes, bobn, I inherited this bitch....
Seriously, people, are you all drunk, or are you 16?
A dose of reality feel free to suck my little pink dick, really.
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:04 am | #
Talk about rewarding bad behaviour.....
Joanna,
If all you say is true, then why is it the fault of the banksters that you are in foreclosure?
Both sides understood the contracts, did their due diligence and proceeded. I'm not sure why you (or anyone in your position) would blame the banksters alone.
For several years, every financial blog post I read about Santelli was positive. It wasn't until he called out Obama's plan that some of you people turned against him. Your political bias is showing.
Santelli tells it how it is. Just because his parent company is GE doesn't mean he agrees with their business decisions. Somehow, I find it hard to believe that you people that are bashing him only work for the most upstanding companies.
Both sides understood the contracts, did their due diligence and proceeded. I'm not sure why you (or anyone in your position) would blame the banksters alone.
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:09 am | #
Oh please. How can a first time homebuyer do "due diligence" ? They do not even know what the term means.
Try again.
A dose or reality, why am I not? Oh wait because I hate you and your ilk. You will never take my home. I'll kill all of you firs5t, bring it bitch....
FFDIC, I see you're on a roll tonight.
Shnaps was a real arteest earlier today.
Go back to the Forecast: Office Vacancy thread and look for the first post by CRbot.
Local news here is reporting the city of Stockton may declare bankruptcy in the near future.
Comrade Kristina,
Before you assign all the blame to the banksters for your situation, perhaps some self-examination is necessary? Think about this:
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:00 am | #
I seem to recall that Kristina inherited the bad mortgage - I think.
I missed that, but I still don't understand why that translates into assigning the blame to Wall Street.
If you inherit a liability, and presumably know of it before you assume it - why is that the fault of the "banksters"?
sportsfan | 02.21.09 - 1:12 am | #
Yeah, my better half is in Rosenberg TX at a show and I'm alone which is never good... thanks.
City could consider bankruptcy
constantly threatening to quit my job
Doug Watts | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:04 am | #
The debate is always about the level of taxation, not taxation itself.
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090220/A_NEWS/902200326
Try that again...
dose, I think the argument is a little more compelling human terms. not every 'bankster' was wealthy, and i'm sure many mid-mgmt types have had dreams crushed along with restricted BAC, C, WFC, etc shares.
it's all spilt milk now. the battle now is between those who want to reach for the sponge and those who take the geithner/japanese approach, which is standing around while discussing what value milk has after it has been on the floor for a few weeks.
In a municipal bankruptcy, what assets -- if any -- can creditors claim/put a lien on/seize
Is it a state court that handles it, and a federal court that would handle a state bankruptcy?
Doug Watts writes:
Oh please. How can a first time homebuyer do "due diligence" ? They do not even know what the term means.
A person who buys his first gun or his first car is expected to know how to operate it - for his own sake. Got to have some responsibility. Also, got to have some regulation - Big Brother is not always evil.
Oh please. How can a first time homebuyer do "due diligence" ? They do not even know what the term means.
Try again.
Doug Watts | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:11 am | #
Due diligence is just a fancy term I suppose, but I don't buy the concept that all buyers were clueless. Up until the availability of easy credit and ability to default on a mortgage with little consequence, buyers were doing their due diligence - I know my parents thought long and hard before putting down their savings on their life's biggest investment.
Just because someone is willing to lend you the money, doesn't mean you go all out to spend it? Would you look as kindly upon the irresponsible new college grad who maxes out their credit cards and ruins their credit and then claims ignorance?
Please.
If you inherit a liability, and presumably know of it before you assume it - why is that the fault of the "banksters"?
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:13 am | #
Because the long time nature and practice of the home real estate mortgage industry in the United States during the 20th century was that the mortgage broker would not willfully and knowingly execute a mortgage with a person whom they knew would probably not be able to make the payments 1, 3, 5, 7 years down the line. And this is exactly what happened in the 21st century.
It's called predatory lending.
Or loan sharking.
Joanna writes:
No way!! I have family there now. I lived on top of High Point hill for 15 years. So much different now. My mom & dad live in South Park.
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 12:50 am | #
We're just a stones throw away. High Point ... well that is something else these days. Best of luck with Seven Trees .. we have friends in Bellingham and am up that way 'reasonably' often.
Yeah, Godmotherfuckin forbid, a little person inherit shit? I forgot about the rules.... The facts are, I've been fucked eighteen ways to Sunday and nofuckingbuddy wants to admit it...fuck all ya'll...
I missed that, but I still don't understand why that translates into assigning the blame to Wall Street.
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:13 am | #
Because they are a bunch of lying cheating scumbags who destroyed the economy of the world for their own immense benefit?
No, I guess that wouldn't be a reason.
Yeah, my better half is in Rosenberg TX at a show and I'm alone which is never good.
FFDIC | 02.21.09 - 1:13 am | #
I kinda like it when my other half is elsewhere. Things are really quiet.
Seriously, check out the CRbot post if you haven't seen it. Feckless called for a show of hands from all who were fooled by it.
EvilHenryPaulson writes: In a municipal bankruptcy, what assets -- if any -- can creditors claim/put a lien on/seize
Is it a state court that handles it, and a federal court that would handle a state bankruptcy?
U.S. Courts | Bankruptcy | Basics | Chapter 9
This should cheer us all up.. a lot.
NEW YORK (Reuters) Renowned investor George Soros said on Friday the world financial system has effectively disintegrated, adding that there is yet no prospect of a near-term resolution to the crisis.
Soros said the turbulence is actually more severe than during the Great Depression, comparing the current situation to the demise of the Soviet Union.
He said the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers in September marked a turning point in the functioning of the market system.
"We witnessed the collapse of the financial system," Soros said at a Columbia University dinner. "It was placed on life support, and it's still on life support. There's no sign that we are anywhere near a bottom."
Sorta like the people on the Titanic who didn't get onto lifeboats. They couldn't find any bottom.
Do an annual estate tax with similar parameters to the "death tax" circa 1999 (obviously at much lower rates).
Sounds simple but it is not. Tax assets and trillions of dollars of wealth will simply move to offshore trusts out of reach of the US tax system. Happy days for the top bracket taxpayers they can stop paying income tax and move most of their assets out of the US tax environment. It would be difficult to move real estate but that is already taxed on the basis of value. Most other assets can move.
Take the elephant off the middle class' chest.
This can be easily done. Raise the standard deduction to $30,000, and eliminate the FICA payroll tax.
Comrade Kristina writes:
A dose or reality, why am I not? Oh wait because I hate you and your ilk. You will never take my home. I'll kill all of you firs5t, bring it bitch....
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:12 am | #
Good luck with your situation - I mean this sincerely.
Is it a state court that handles it,
EvilHenryPaulson | 02.21.09 - 1:16 am | #
All bankruptcies are handled in federal court.
No one has yet proved that a State can file bankruptcy and there seems to be some opinion that one can't.
Just because someone is willing to lend you the money, doesn't mean you go all out to spend it? Would you look as kindly upon the irresponsible new college grad who maxes out their credit cards and ruins their credit and then claims ignorance?
Please.
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:17 am | #
You are describing predatory lending. What you are describing is exactly why it is illegal. The law assumes for obvious reasons (think a bookie) that the lender has more information than the sucker ... oops ... the borrower.
If all you say is true, then why is it the fault of the banksters that you are in foreclosure?
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:09 am | #
Whoa. I'm not in foreclosure. I'm sitting pretty, far from underwater and living large for my station in life.
Due diligence is just a fancy term I suppose,
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:17 am | #
Yeah, I always went with "check it out up front and if you front it, forget it."
In a municipal bankruptcy, what assets -- if any -- can creditors claim/put a lien on/seize
Is it a state court that handles it, and a federal court that would handle a state bankruptcy?
Almost all assets that a municipality or political subdivision can be seized upon. For example, a creditor can get a levy for funds in a city's bank account.
All BKs are processed in BK court, which are federal, but not federal courts.
There is no BK provision for states and counties, which are generally thought to as sovereign parts of states. But cities, yes.
"Santelli tells it how it is."
I don't watch CNBC. I am not a Democrat, nor am I a Republican, Conservative or Liberal.
Having watched the Santelli video, I can say it struck me as showing poor judgment.
I sure wouldn't be counting on him for any objective reporting.
Would mortgages really be provided on such a large scale, at such a reasonable interest rate to people that couldn't afford them if it wasn't for the financial engineering / banker types? They effectively inflated the demand for housing and correspondingly construction and housing prices shot up. The collapse of that artificial demand is what is destroying housing values right now. So.. Who is to blame?
Renowned investor George Soros said on Friday the world financial system has effectively disintegrated,
Hal | 02.21.09 - 1:19 am | #
Well, good, we don't have to worry about that any more.
Basel Too 1:21 am - Didn't Orange County filed for BK?
The link again is here U.S. Courts | Bankruptcy | Basics | Chapter 9
"The purpose of chapter 9 is to provide a financially-distressed municipality protection from its creditors while it develops and negotiates a plan for adjusting its debts. Reorganization of the debts of a municipality is typically accomplished either by extending debt maturities, reducing the amount of principal or interest, or refinancing the debt by obtaining a new loan.
Although similar to other chapters in some respects, chapter 9 is significantly different in that there is no provision in the law for liquidation of the assets of the municipality and distribution of the proceeds to creditors. Such a liquidation or dissolution would undoubtedly violate the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution and the reservation to the states of sovereignty over their internal affairs. "
Hulu - Movie Trailers: 2012
Adding to the nihilism.
I think someone is using Kristina's handle.
We're just a stones throw away. High Point ... well that is something else these days. Best of luck with Seven Trees .. we have friends in Bellingham and am up that way 'reasonably' often.
martyseattle | 02.21.09 - 1:17 am | #
If you check out my hompage link on the comments, it leads to my blog, and a way to contact me if you're in the area. High Point back in the day was a war zone. But excellent life experience.
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:17 am | #
Krisy I thought I was your friend 10 minutes ago? Go to bed and sleep it off. Tomorrow will be a worse day.
mp,
Fair enough. His use of "loser" may have been a bit harsh, but I think he was responding to the extreme injustice of responsible taxpayers bailing out the irresponsible. I think the term was more appropriate than inappropriate.
I'll put you down for being in favor of supporting the irresponsible. Somehow, I get the feeling that you are in the minority.
ope mp, it's me, and youre synopsis is correct
I missed that, but I still don't understand why that translates into assigning the blame to Wall Street.
If you inherit a liability, and presumably know of it before you assume it - why is that the fault of the "banksters"?
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:13 am |
Again, absolutely correct. The 'banksters' have been wrongly maligned. They were just doing their job, making money out of nothingburger.
Really what we need is a Bank(st)er Hall of Fame. We need to put their busts on pedestals in a long hall, Fuld, Dimon, Paulson (a solid gold bust positioned at the climax of the walk), all of them, because of their great service to humanity.
You are positioning yourself for the ultimate reality show: "Banker Apologist Head On A Pike!"
I mean really. How the fuck can you ostensibly equate the failures of the average mortgage buyer with the complete, corrupt and fraudulent activities of our ever-so-beloved banksters?
It does not compute. And for you to come here and point a finger at a bartender and try to exonerate the banksters, well, I have a special pike for you.
Give me your name, I'll put it on your pike.
I think someone is using Kristina's handle.
mp | 02.21.09 - 1:24 am | #
You could be right.
Doug Watts writes:
Because the long time nature and practice of the home real estate mortgage industry in the United States during the 20th century was that the mortgage broker would not willfully and knowingly execute a mortgage with a person whom they knew would probably not be able to make the payments 1, 3, 5, 7 years down the line. And this is exactly what happened in the 21st century.
It's called predatory lending.
Or loan sharking.
Doug Watts | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:17 am | #
That's a fair point. What I'm annoyed by is that irresponsible borrowers and idiot bankers have dragged neutral parties like me into the mess and are now trying to assign blame to each other when in fact, they both share the blame.
FFDIC< you are still my friend? I have no problem with you
Would mortgages really be provided on such a large scale, at such a reasonable interest rate to people that couldn't afford them if it wasn't for the financial engineering/banker types? They effectively inflated the demand for housing and correspondingly construction and housing prices shot up. The collapse of that artificial demand is what is destroying housing values right now.
BennyJerk | 02.21.09 - 1:22 am | #
That is a very good summation of what is happening now.
Once you decouple the risk of foreclosure from the person who gets the commission for selling the mortgage, this is what happens ... and has now happened.
See here for a better (and hilarious) explanation:
subprime works
Joanna writes:
If all you say is true, then why is it the fault of the banksters that you are in foreclosure?
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:09 am | #
Whoa. I'm not in foreclosure. I'm sitting pretty, far from underwater and living large for my station in life.
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:21 am | #
Sorry - my apologies. Didn't realize I'd mixed up posts I was responding to.
MrM:
Yes, Orange County filed for BK, and Chapter 9 does list counties as a political subdivision. I keep forgetting that my home state is somewhat unique; some states extend the general sovereign immunity to include counties, because they are not incorporated entities but extensions of the state, as opposed to municipalities, school districts, etc.
All BKs are processed in BK court, which are federal, but not federal courts.
There is no BK provision for states and counties, which are generally thought to as sovereign parts of states. But cities, yes.
Basel Too | 02.21.09 - 1:21 am | #
I'll assume the first quoted sentence is a word game.
As for counties not being able to file BK, what about Orange County, CA circa 1990 whatever?
there seems to be some opinion that one can't.
sportsfan | 02.21.09 - 1:20 am | #
Yeah, states are sovereign entities. They can't file bankruptcy but they can default.
A dose of Reality writes:
Joanna writes:
If all you say is true, then why is it the fault of the banksters that you are in foreclosure?
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:09 am | #
Whoa. I'm not in foreclosure. I'm sitting pretty, far from underwater and living large for my station in life.
Joanna | Homepage | 02.21.09 - 1:21 am | #
Sorry - my apologies. Didn't realize I'd mixed up posts I was responding to.
A dose of Reality | 02.21.09 - 1:27 am | #
And I guess, we also see the reason why you're not in foreclosure from your response to my checklist!
"I'll put you down for being in favor of supporting the irresponsible."
I pay taxes, and I'm not in favor of supporting the irresponsible, but I'm also not going to endorse what Santelli did.