CNBC: AIG Asking for more Government Funds
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Mon, 02/23/2009 - 11:42am (474 comments)
Shopping at Amazon?
Wait! If you click on the Amazon banner link at the top of the page first, HCN will get a percentage of anything you purchase for 24 hours!
Open predictions
Our local book authors
User login
Who's online
There are currently 10 members and 134 guests online.
Recent Recommendations
first!
How can this be possible?
Oh my goodness. We need to line up BK funding for AIG before the automakers.
Seriously? How much more money does Goldman Sachs need?
This can't be happening.
Somebody stop the pain.
shocked. just shocked. They should be strapped into chairs and shocked...
--bh
Do they take personal checks? I'm good for it.
7200 again.
752 beat one more time,
has bounced twice, will it do it again?
What can I say...
Mo money, mo problems
YouTube -
....well the market likes THIS news...
I'm ready!
Just keep throwing more money at the problem in hopes it will all go away.
Everybody @ citi had their ralli caps on (inside out is the only way) and although citi's down $3 trillion to none in the bottom of the 9th, it's ain't over until the the fat lady sinks, is it?
are AIG preferred bond holders negotiating a haircut with the Uncle "scissorhands" Sammy?
we're still good for a 3rd half recovery!
I'm ready!
BailoutHelicopter
HELICOPTER BEN TO THE RESCUE!
They're going to need a winch to pull Frazier out of that hole...
--bh
dear god where are my brown pants
sub 7200
Ok, the idea of keeping bondholders whole is getting tiring ..
just do a WAMU on C, AIG, GM, BAC, DB, Hypo and get it done with.
....I'm glad I bought that second cow.....
And the dollar gains against the Euro because they have it even worse.
omg
--bh
No one could have anticipated the breach of the levies.
"will it bounce again"
nope....
But there's always tomorrow...
Ciao
MS
Pthh.. this is nothin..
This is unbelievable.
Some serious rope-a-dope goin on.
This is pathetic...actually it's beyond it. Good timing to release the news though. They ought to be able to make a billion of the $60B back shorting the market...
MS writes:
"will it bounce again"
nope....
But there's always tomorrow...
Ciao
MS
It's bouncing, just down.
--bh
7100?
AIG's (the taxpayer) loss is Goldman Sach's gain!
GS was on the other side of many of AIG's derivative contracts. When the Gov. bailed out AIG, they saved Goldman.
I sure hope GS employees enjoy those taxpayer funded bonuses.
Maybe they should have a website posting how they spend the money. That way we could all share in the joy.
"Another irony seems apparent: Paulson and the other CEOs used the same logic in front of the SEC as they did in front of Congress in the fall of 2008. Paternal we're-smarter-than-you fear mongering. "Trust us, we know what we are doing. It is imperative that you grant us an exemption to the leverage limits so that we can compete on an equal basis with European banks, otherwise the US banking industry could be wiped out by the Europeans. "Trust us, we know what we are doing. It is imperative that you grant us $700 billion with no oversight and no questions otherwise, the US banking system will be wiped out and your ATM cards will not work."
A call to financial journalists: expose this story and expose this man, Henry Paulson. You all get excited about awards, where there is a big fat Pulitzer Prize waiting for somebody to tell the truth, for once."
The Bank Bailout Verdict: We Are A Nation Led By Idiots - Home - The Daily Bail
for those who missed this article i posted at the end of the last thread.
I've been feeling like a high school senior with a week to go before graduation, for about 6 months now.
When will something decisive happen?
Cramer: "At least the taxpayer is paying for AIG now, not the system.."
WTH???
I live in DC, and I am seeing goats and chickens on the Craigslist. Goats are a lot cheaper than I thought. Also people selling eggs. For Blackstar and Joanna - its $3 for a dozen here.
I'm begining to think that if the plane had crashed into 70 Pine, rather than the WTC, OBL would be downright popular in this country.
Cramer: "Geithner on an endless journey.."
Is this what the market is reacting to?
AIG - The never ending story...
Seriously? How much more money does Goldman Sachs need?
Gavshire Hathaway | 02.23.09 - 2:53 pm | #
You are still thinking from the persective of using money to trade with, rather than seeing it as a measure of power (control).
Mo ponies for everyone!!!
Ponies all 'round!!
Ponies, ponies, ponies....
I can see nothin' but ponies.
"When will something decisive happen?"
Timothy Leary of Geithner | 02.23.09 - 2:59 pm | #
Never...this is the theatre of the absurd and it is never ending.
Fear not, the trustees are trustworthy.
Happy unrally!
--bh
Market's going double-bagger ugly. Wonder if PPT phase II will kick in...
I live in DC, and I am seeing goats and chickens on the Craigslist. Goats are a lot cheaper than I thought. Also people selling eggs. For Blackstar and Joanna - its $3 for a dozen here.
nova | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:00 pm | #
I hate goats. Gave them a good try though. I sell my eggs for $2.50, still profitable, but undercuttign the local market. I'll be raising prices if the market can bear it, around August. But craigslist gets refreshed along with my other workday feeds
Thread Music:
Supermassive Black Hole
I wonder if I could graze my goats on the county park land. Since VDOT decided to cut mowing to about half what they used to. I bet the county just gives up on some areas.
Nomad Goat Dude. kind of inspiring.
Tim: "Good news! We saved the patient."
Obama: "What's the bad news?"
Tim: "We had to donate all our blood and two kidneys."
How many bottom callers will CNBC parade out now?
I still think there's a good chance Mr. Frog makes an appearance today.
x-trend boz gettn killed
Eric, where's Kermit?
The taxpayer owns 79.99% of AIG. Looks like going forward we will own 100% (of the losses).
Thanks Hank Paulson. You did us a solid. You are the Gold(man Sachs) standard by which wall street will judge future treasury secretaries.
Mo ponies for everyone!!!
Ponies all 'round!!
Ponies, ponies, ponies....
I can see nothin' but ponies.
barkingtribe | 02.23.09 - 3:01 pm | #
Are those skittles in my pants, or is the market just happy to see me?
Curry makes goats palatable - and stock up on chutney too while you are at it.
Put in an order for XLF at $5.38. Maybe I should change it to $4.38?
Having a successful administration isn't about policy; it's about being lucky enough to get elected at the beginning of the economic cycle.
If Treasury pays over 60 cents on the dollar for AIG gambling debts (counterparties not holding assets underlying swap) then we need a serious social challenge (Boston Tea Party update).
Eric, where's Kermit?
bob | 02.23.09 - 3:02 pm | #
While I think he might appear, I'm still short.
This is the bailout that never ends,
it just goes on and on my friends
Some people started bailing it, not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue bailing it forever just because...
This is the bailout that never ends,
it just goes on and on my friends
Some people started bailing it, not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue bailing it forever just because...
This is the bailout that never ends,
it just goes on and on my friends
Some people started bailing it, not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue bailing it forever just because...
There are lots of goats and chickens on cragislist: try the "x seeks y" sections. Especially in DC.
While I think he might appear, I'm still short.
Thats good, cause I think he is height challenged also
AIG is like (financial) herpes - the gift that keeps on giving.
Thanks Hank Paulson.
Eric writes:
I still think there's a good chance Mr. Frog makes an appearance today.
Airplane Manufacturers
Timothy Leary of Geithner writes:
I've been feeling like a high school senior with a week to go before graduation, for about 6 months now.
When will something decisive happen?
Timothy Leary of Geithner
I think we all know that feeling, but to me it's more like waiting for the New Madrid Fault to give way or for Yellowstone to blow--we know it's overdue, but no one knows whether it'll happen today, tomorrow, or twenty+ yrs ....
Wall Street: BooHoo, we don't know where to price the financials. Seriously? Let's not blame Obama/Geithner for the fact that these companies are shit and you're still hoping they smell like roses. We've kept things on life support so things could unwind a little slower. We really can't afford a little more time to make it clear who can be saved and lessen the impact as much as possible for those that can't? Really (in Seth voice)?
http://www.highwayhome.com/ corpo...ufacturers.html
Popeye | 02.23.09 - 3:04 pm | #
OK... that's too obsucre. I don't get it.
"Thats good, cause I think he is height challenged also"
nova
LOL!
Somewhere in a parallel universe Evil Obama has told AIG, C, BAC, GM, etc to go f*ck themselves and removes the joker card and the whole house of card collapses and panic ensues and the Chinese offer to buy the US lock, stock and barrel and Evil Obama declares Marshall law, arrests Congress, and sells our sweet Liberty to the Chinese and retires on an undisclosed island of Hawaii that was kept off the maps by the NSA/CIA and we all start working in large, factories producing plastic trinkets.
I want Evil Obama to cross into our universe and take the asshats down. I want to learn Chinese. I want to make plastic versions of his children to sell to Chinese children. I want to live in a 10 x 12 apartment and watch state sponsored television.
Surely that will be better than this slow, painful, deadly, deflationary spiral straight to hell.
Where's Citizen Allen M today?
How's your 100% in equities doing?
An early vulture is a dead vulture.
Repost from previous thread
nova(Unrated) writes:
So what is happening with Italy? Last I read here it was being proposed that they sell off their gold to cover loans.
Austria still has problems. As does most of Eastern Europe. The UK?
#
I'm working on a longer status update on most of the EU countries (abbreviated version: "it's really bad"). Can post here once I'm done (in a day or two).
Basically, it looks like the worst cases in Western side are:
Greece (National debt)
UK (Finance sector - need I say more)
Ireland (double whammy of finance and housing)
Italy (national debt has been totally out of hand for quite a while now)
In pretty much that order. Then there's the problems on whether Switzerland is going to implode completely on their finance sector, and naturally the Eastern Europe, which already has imploded financially.
Eric writes:
OK... that's too obsucre. I don't get it.
...setting out flies for kermit
Societal safety nets have gaping holes in them.
Think self-sufficiency in the future, if you want to be ahead of the crowd.
I wonder if I could graze my goats on the county park land. Since VDOT decided to cut mowing to about half what they used to. I bet the county just gives up on some areas.
Nomad Goat Dude. kind of inspiring.
nova | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:02 pm | #
Rental goat-grazing is a big thing in some areas - http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/319789_goats14.html
They'll soften the blow before long.....let it get to about 7100 and then whoosh......
Ciao
MS
7150 and falling
The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. Are the markets now rational?
Supermassive Black Hole:
I picture Hank Greenberg taking his shirt off and dancing like Iggy Pop with this song playing in the background.
Dash,
I look forward to reading it. I just scooped this off your blog.
Police are preparing for a "summer of rage" as victims of the economic downturn take to the streets to demonstrate against financial institutions, the Guardian has learned.
You in Euroland?
ote that the feb 9 marks the peak price of BAC -- shocked ? Citi is a lost cause this is about tring to set a back fire
Quote of the Day...
Unintended Consequences of Govt. Interventio
Dow -220 is the new Dow -440.
Isn't it time for Charlie Gasbag to appear on CNBC and tell us something?
Someone let me know when Merkel invades Poland.
sorry should have typed 7150.....7100 would be a disaster....
Ciao
MS
Samdog- unless you are one of the sad cases that has been laid off so far this is all quite surreal, but we all pretty much know someone who is looking for, and cannot find employment.
Meanwhile, the devastation in 401k's and other financial 'vehicles' is approaching absolute - the cliff edge is much closer than it was a year ago.
It is rather like watching a slow motion train wreck happening up ahead on the tracks and wondering what will happen when the car you are riding in goes off the rails.
Eric, where's Kermit?
bob | 02.23.09 - 3:02 pm | #
Stuffed into the trunk of an abandoned car.
I already have insurance, please let this one go under.
jo6pac
Isn't it time for Charlie Gasbag to appear on CNBC and tell us something?
Eric | 02.23.09 - 3:08 pm
Maybe Maria could do a pole dance to distract people for awhile?
I wonder if I could graze my goats on the county park land. Since VDOT decided to cut mowing to about half what they used to. I bet the county just gives up on some areas.
nova | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:02 pm | #
Too bad they took replacing the sod in the mall out of the stimulus package: would've made for good grazing.
BloombergTV right now - beer and alcohol sales falling
The end is here
While I think he might appear, I'm still short.
Thats good, cause I think he is height challenged also
\t nova
nova | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:04 pm | #
You're a better man than I. I dumped the last of my shorts this morning. For me it's hard to bet on 6 down days in a row, but I still say if it doesn't stop we could have a "big, sudden move down".
BloombergTV right now - beer and alcohol sales falling
alybaba | 02.23.09 - 3:09 pm | #
I'm still waiting for those dime girls to appear.
is feb-9 some arbitrary date -- why would the gov't buy JPM stock at 28 with stock at 20 --> the new wall street distressed asets get premium in firesale.
BloombergTV right now - beer and alcohol sales falling
The end is here
alybaba | 02.23.09 - 3:09 pm
I've been saying that for awhile, although business inexplicably picked up the past two weeks, I figure people are getting their tax return money, it won't last.
BO was talking about cutting something in half. If he was talking about our standard of living, that may be the only promise he is going to keep.
OK, we're rallying now.
Whew.
three words: long dated puts
Learn it, know it, live it....
Then you don't get so caught up in "will it or won't it?"
Ciao
MS
Obama's PPT raise the white flag ?
It's hard for me to be shocked by pretty much anything these days, but color me shocked.
What they haven't received isn't enough? Ridiculous.
three words: long dated puts
MS | 02.23.09 - 3:11 pm | #
Yeah, I rolled my Jun 90s out to Sep 70s this morning.
alybaba writes:
BloombergTV right now - beer and alcohol sales falling
I'm long on home brew and bathtub gin supplies.
BO was talking about cutting something in half. If he was talking about our standard of living, that may be the only promise he is going to keep.
Broker | 02.23.09 - 3:11 pm | #
Whoever thought our standard of living was sustainable in a "global" economy? It was ludicrous on it's face...
ova(Unrated) writes:
Dash,
I look forward to reading it. I just scooped this off your blog.
You in Euroland?
#
Yeah, Finland (we've been relatively shielded by the financial storm so far) - I'm mostly collating this stuff to keep friends and family up to date.
Btw. If anyone knows of a good summary of the current status of different EU countries that would save me a lot of trouble
Yay! That was the bottom.
Actually, I think I will use that in my CR opus. Goatboy - purveyor of goats to Muslims and the poor of fairfax county.
He keeps his herd in an abandoned commercial strip and herds them to the market place. The goats are belled and he had a couple dogs to help.
Just enough society is functioning that he had to make sure the dogs rabies shots are updated and the tags are on their collars.
The market is down 50% from peak. Why do people still post about the PPT? Even if it existed, it is so ineffectual as to be a waste of bits.
By: David Faber, CNBC Anchor and Reporter | 23 Feb 2009 | 03:00 PM ET
Text Size
American Insurance Group, the insurance giant that is 80-percent owned by the US government, is in discussions with the government to secure additional funds so it can keep operating after next Monday, when it will report the largest loss in U.S. corporate history, CNBC has learned.
Sources close to the company ] said the loss will be near $60 billion due to writedowns on a variety of assets including commercial real estate.
AIG Seeks More US Funds As Record Loss Looms - CNBC
so much for the reflation trade guess it's back to rent the fianncials for an hour
When are Obama and Paulson going to have the balls to stop trying to keep the waves from receding from the shore and let nature take its course? I will trade more short-term pain for a short wait until ultimate recovery.
I'm long on home brew and bathtub gin supplies.
The Notorious A.I.G. | 02.23.09 - 3:12 pm | #
Funny. I was pricing home distilling set ups this morning thinking homemade hooch will be a great barter item.
fallonPDX writes: "... into our universe and take the asshats down. I want to learn Chinese. I want to make plastic versions of his children to sell to Chinese children. I want to live in a 10 x 12 apartment and watch state sponsored television."
Excellent rant!
I was in China for most of January. SPOKEN Chinese actually isn't too hard to learn. But all those characters ... forget it. In a month I learned about twenty-five characters.
3 o'clock pump?
LOL JP, because it's more fun than thinking there are actually people out there stupid enough to be buying this overpriced crap...
$60 billion is a pretty big number.
BOUNCE!
Dash
You checked the eurowatch blog?
The market is down 50% from peak. Why do people still post about the PPT?
========
it's OK for the market to be down 50% from the peak, but a huge drop in any one day might induce a panic. preventing that panic is the job of the PPT
When are Obama and Paulson
Accountability Anyone? | 02.23.09 - 3:13 pm | #
Pretty sure Paulson no longer gives a shit.
Someone let me know when Merkel invades Poland.
debtinator
No freakin doubt.
Dash, Der Spiegel has a decent English language site, with news on Europe:
International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten
666 Visitors Online
666 visitors...
60 billion in writedowns? LOL
Last week the boogieman was 1997-level close. This week it seems to be 6-handle. Which means closing under what-was-it 7286? will be a major Kermit. No worries!
Rally seems to be losing steam.
write-downs as opposed to the dreaded write off.
Dontcha know we're going to make money on AIG!!!
Ciao
MS
it's OK for the market to be down 50% from the peak, but a huge drop in any one day might induce a panic.
Citizen Scotto | 02.23.09 - 3:14 pm | #
LOL!
Campbell Net Declines as Retailers Cut Soup Inventory
Campbell Net Declines as Retailers Cut Soup Inventory (Update4) - Bloomberg.com
Campbell Soup Co., the world’s largest soupmaker, said second-quarter profit fell 15 percent as retailers cut back inventories.
Rally seems to be losing steam.
mal | 02.23.09 - 3:15 pm | #
Hater.
LOL!
JP | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:16 pm | #
yeah, I couldn't keep a straight face while writing it, either
For those of you interested in actual data, here is the latest "Earnings Trends"
Still Ugly, But Rate of Decline Slowing
So how many aircraft carriers did we throw down the AIG black hole?
Wall Street: BooHoo, make me confident. Really? You took steroids, got all pumped up, and now you realize your balls shrank. Invest in viagra and shut up, please.
ppt had better viagra during bushtimes
The market is down 50% from peak. Why do people still post about the PPT?
Citizen Scotto | 02.23.09 - 3:14 pm | #
Because the market got to that level AND because it is ONLY 50% off that level.
666 visitors online. Satanson is back. This is troubling.
mal writes:
Rally seems to be losing steam.
This headline on Marketwatch scared the TARP out of the bulls.
"Stress tests may be final
Banks who fail to pass could be first in line to be nationalized"
FaradayShieldedHeadgearBrigade writes:
Samdog- unless you are one of the sad cases that has been laid off so far this is all quite surreal
Yup, I've been laid off--over a year ago. Thank the Lord my wife makes good money and has a solid niche.
Me? I'm way "over-educated." Too bad I wasted all that time on a PhD in molecular biology ....
Dash: RGE Monitor.
Tarp diem, everyday of the week.
I feel like I'm watching a slinky make its way down a staircase today.
Obama better get his butt out there and announce some grand master plan.
If we already own 80% of AIG, who does AIG ask for money?
BTW, is this all the credit default swap market that's killing AIG?
No it's killing Goldman Sachs...AIG already dead.
Ciao
MS
BloombergTV right now - beer and alcohol sales falling
alybaba | 02.23.09 - 3:09 pm | #
Too bad as heavy drinking is probably what we all need.
The latest here is that we aren't allowed to talk in the hallways now per an office memo. yes seriously. Never a problem before but now folks are talking about the economy and everyone is in a foul mood. This isn't a univ, it's high school and who has the time to play hall monitor? So I guess it's one of those 'the beatings will continue until attitudes improve' type events.
oh joy. I guess the bright side is that anyone cranky enough to notice this must be loosing their retirement in the market.
Gasbag on que.
"American Insurance Group, the insurance giant that is 80-percent owned by the US government."
Why or why can we not have better journalism. The US owns frickin' AIG outright. We, the taxpayers, should call the shots not their asshats in upper management.
Close them down and sell off the pieces that still make a profit and get our money back.
What the hell is up with our country that no one, not in the private sector or in the public sector has the temerity to do what needs to be done. Hell I will do it. Appoint me to the frickin' FDIC, SEC, FED, or Treasury.
Pouring money into these asshats is like pouring gas on fire. We need to pour water, a lot of water, and drown them all.
Otherwise, no one will buy our debt if all we are going to do is burn through the dollars and not put them to productive use. Show me exactly how AIG is actually producing anything of value to the economy. They are not. Neither is GM for that matter. There is no way they can possibly repay what they "require."
China prepares to buy up foreign oil companies while Obama economic team assclowns buy insolvent US banks.
China prepares to buy up foreign oil companies - Telegraph
China must be LOL at Obama admin stupidy....wait until the cut back on buying T bills.
"Campbell Soup Co., the worlds largest soupmaker, said second-quarter profit fell 15 percent as retailers cut back inventories.
Ministry of Truth"
Incidentally the demand for squirrel pole materials is on the rise.
Squirrel Snare
CNBC: Citi deal will be done soon. 40% stake in Citi. Deal is "done"
best to all.
I remember when index funds were for the conservative investor.
Conservative investor must be an oxymoron.
2 o'clock Charlie is on.
Hmmmmm... correlation between rise of CR visitor count and decline of market?
Soupy Sales are off, eh?
I probably would not give a shit about this if I was 22 years old. Probably, it would barely register. I would be happy as the Nomad Goat Man at that age. Smoking herb, and watching the goat dogs do all the work.
The problem is I am not young. I don't have 20 years to make up the lost ground. At my age, if I get laid off, I can be "the Old Goat Nomad.
Where's the f'n wabbit?
C'mon, there's always a wabbit!
DJ off the clock writes:
BloombergTV right now - beer and alcohol sales falling
alybaba | 02.23.09 - 3:09 pm | #
Too bad as heavy drinking is probably what we all need.
People home brewing?
CNBC: Citi deal will be done soon. 40% stake in Citi. Deal is "done"
Calculated Risk | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:21 pm | #
Remind me if this is bullish or not.
Show me exactly how AIG is actually producing anything of value to the economy.
there's this little thing called systemic collapse . . .
Me? I'm way "over-educated." Too bad I wasted all that time on a PhD in molecular biology ....
I hear stem cell companies will soon be booming, granted BO lifts the funding ban..
Deal is "done"
Calculated Risk | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:21 pm | #
We is all 'done' now.
The latest here is that we aren't allowed to talk in the hallways now per an office memo. yes seriously. Never a problem before but now folks are talking about the economy and everyone is in a foul mood. This isn't a univ, it's high school and who has the time to play hall monitor? So I guess it's one of those 'the beatings will continue until attitudes improve' type events.
DJ off the clock | 02.23.09 - 3:20 pm | #
See my previous post about being on the verge of termination because I've been "too negative" about the economy and markets in my conversations with people. The USA is so screwed up right now.
FaradayShieldedHeadgearBrigade writes:
Curry makes goats palatable - and stock up on chutney too while you are at it.
FaradayShieldedHeadgearBrigade | 02.23.09 - 3:03 pm | #
Apricot Chutney
2 Tbs. olive oil
1/2 small onion, finely chopped
1 lb. apricots (2 cups, finely chopped)
1/2 c. sugar
1/4 c. honey
1/4 c. cider vinegar
1/3 c. raisins
1/2 tsp. mustard seeds
1/4 tsp. cumin seeds
1/4 tsp. coarse salt
1/2 c. walnuts
dash allspice, ginger, cayenne, tumeric, orange zest
Heat oil over medium heat. Add onion, cook until soft and translucent. About 4 minutes.
Add remaining. Cook until thickened. Stir occasionally. 20-25 min.
Transfer to medium bowl. Cool completely.
Makes 2 cups. Refrigerate in airtight container for up to two weeks.
Wartime cure for goat, mutton, cheap cuts.
Oh wow, look at the market now. Blood in the streets yet? Where is Baron Rothschild when you need him?
ova(Unrated) writes:
Dash
You checked the eurowatch blog?
nova | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:14 pm | #
Yeah, I've been reading it occasionally (btw. thanks for the reminder, need to add it to the links), but I'm looking for (and working on, since I haven't found a good one yet) a simple & straightforward "Europe at a Glance" that would be easy to digest.
Let's see, AIG have already gotten $150 billion, if they need another $60 that's $210 billion. The newest aircraft carrier costs about $8 billion. So AIG cost the US about 26 aircraft carriers?
"CNBC: Citi deal will be done soon. 40% stake in Citi. Deal is "done"
best to all."
I'd rather have a 40% stake in a 16 oz T-bone.
What happened to Glod?
Hmmmmm... correlation between rise of CR visitor count and decline of market?
scone | 02.23.09 - 3:22 pm | #
Please, it's causation. We are the masters of the universe here, after all.
Now in true "down is up" fashion...C stock gets squeezed?
I'd certainly think about booking it before this BS plan sends the stock upwards for no legitimate reason.
Ciao
MS
what's become the common notion of "retirement" will soon come to be seen as a temporary period in history rather than a persistent norm
Anyone know the previous low from 1997? Maybe we can get there too!
scone --
Hmmmmm... correlation between rise of CR visitor count and decline of market?
Yes; it's called the CR VIX
. (Apologies for linking my own blog.)
I think A-Roid should give Frazier a call
Money, Money, Money!
Samdog,
All you will need to know is "may I use the toilet?"
Beyond that, you will show up for work and do what you are told and make beautiful work for benevolence of worthy American people.
what's become the common notion of "retirement" will soon come to be seen as a temporary period in history rather than a persistent norm
Citizen Scotto | 02.23.09 - 3:23 pm
It's always been a facade anyway, most people die within four or five years of retirement anyway...save the lucky few.
The bankrupting of this banana republic will be televised.
I ate goat for the first 13 years of my life
I advise you go to your closest Indian/Pakistani store and find a spice mix brand called "Shan". They have a variety of spice mixes for goat curries. My favourite is "Achar Gosht", and would recommend it if you like a tangy, spicy flavour.
Rob Dawg writes:
The market is down 50% from peak. Why do people still post about the PPT?
Citizen Scotto | 02.23.09 - 3:14 pm | #
Because the market got to that level AND because it is ONLY 50% off that level.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:17 pm | #
I love the math here.
Dow is down 50%.
At this point, it would take a 100% gain to GET BACK the 50% lost.
Funny how math and econ work that way.
And we thought this eCONonmy was based on anything remotely real or sustainable in the long term.
Remember...
"Our way of life is non-negotiable."
Yeah, and Santa Claus is real!
Denny's is now offering the "Octomom breakfast": 14 eggs, no sausage and the guy at the next table picks up the check.
RockyR | 02.23.09 - 3:22 pm
Practice smiling, and saying these phrases:
You will be Principal soo
Airforce One to Houston, We have a problem...Code 7169
What's the similarity between a-rod and wall street?
They both hit a lot of dingers using whatever means necessary.
Does anybody want to go throw rocks at the NYSE building this afternoon?
What can I say...
Mo money, mo problems
The Notorious A.I.G. | 02.23.09 - 2:55 pm | #
Still great after all these years!
I ate goat for the first 13 years of my life
alybaba | 02.23.09 - 3:25 pm | #
Goat is damned good. If you people think we are going to suffer because we have to eat Goat, you have another thing coming!
alybaba | 02.23.09 - 3:25 pm
Thank you says the Nomad Goat Man. I prefer spinach.
So, anyone ever click on CR's homepage link when he posts?
ac | 02.23.09 - 3:26 pm | #
I'm up for it. Used a sick day today and my employer is located in Midtown, so no issues there.
"Zombie_Investor writes:
Denny's is now offering the "Octomom breakfast": 14 eggs, no sausage and the guy at the next table picks up the check."
LOL
ac - Sounds like fun.
The bankrupting of this banana republic will be televised.
\t Anonymous
Anonymous | 02.23.09 - 3:24 pm | #
What's horrifying is that we're doing better than a lot of other "developed" countries in the world right now.
Does anybody want to go throw rocks at the NYSE building this afternoon?
ac
====
Or, who doesn't?
Or, why aren't people already there?
ac-
If I lived there I would have already done it....and most certainly have been arrested for doing so. How about the local Treasury office?
Ciao
MS
Practice smiling, and saying these phrases:
nova | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:25 pm | #
Don't forget your 15 pieces of flair.
Please stop quoting me, I did not make that comment about the PPT.
Comrade Kristina writes:
Isn't it time for Charlie Gasbag to appear on CNBC and tell us something?
Eric | 02.23.09 - 3:08 pm
Maybe Maria could do a pole dance to distract people for awhile?
------
Please no, I'm go blind already.
RockyR | 02.23.09 - 3:22 pm
Practice smiling, and saying these phrases:
1. Everything is going to be ok. We just got to be positive.
2. C'mon everyone, get an attitude of gratitude!
3. Have an awesome day!
4. God will only punish the sinners.
You will be Principal soon
nova | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:25 pm | #
LOL! Nova, I love ya! I was thinking I just need to join the medicated crowd and go ask my doc for some Xanax. I hear it does wonders for your outlook but wreaks your sex life. Money to afford goat to eat or sex? Hmm... worthy trade.
I am gonna go take a shit in a paper bag and submit it to the Treasury with my MSRP.
I am thinking...100B.
Our ersatz financial leadership loves scapegoat, prepared on a spit over a F.I.R.E.
Comrade Kristina writes:
It's always been a facade anyway, most people die within four or five years of retirement anyway...save the lucky few.
What?????????
7149 and counting.
This is gonna leave yet another mark!
Its the irony of it all - the US produces a small number of tradeables per capita, so it is hurt the least in a period of global demand destruction
Its like a giant middle finger to the export oriented model
Might as well feel good as America sinks further into depression with the dumbass Obama economic team
New California Gold Rush? Tax proposal on Marijuana Hotlist
by frog belly white
Daily Kos: New California Gold Rush? Tax proposal on Marijuana
As everyone knows the state of California is knee deep in debt and the outlook doesn't look very promising for the future to get their economy jump started even with the stimulus bill being passed. Finally a state Congressman had a lightbulb moment to make some money on the biggest cash crop going that doesn't get taxed -- pot.
Taxing marijuana to raise revenue for your state, it almost sounds like a no brainer but California will be the first state in the country to tackle this. According to the news story that ran this morning at NORML this idea has caught fire with the California State Assembly. The estimate of the amount of revenue raised is close to one billion dollars a year.
why the infatuation with Maria?..she's old and tired.....sort of a younger looking Tammy Faye IMO.
Ciao
MS
If I lived there I would have already done it....and most certainly have been arrested for doing so. How about the local Treasury office?
MS | 02.23.09 - 3:27 pm | #
We have a Fed here in Dallas. Will that do?
/waiting for the black helicopters to come, now
RockyR | 02.23.09 - 3:28 pm
Just get a Cialis or Vigara rx to go with it.
I just wanted to be a sauciere,
Are you a trained chef?
Among my many talents, I also have a AAS in culinary arts ... too bad that market's totally in the toilet too!
Why aren't they jumping from their offices???
Jump you f*rs! JUMP!
ac-
If I lived there I would have already done it....and most certainly have been arrested for doing so. How about the local Treasury office?
Ciao
MS
\t MS
MS | 02.23.09 - 3:27 pm | #
Well I'm still trying to stay in good standing with the law. Maybe the civilized thing to do would be to stop by Toys R' Us (if they're not already out of business) load up on those little Nerf basketballs and pelt the building with those instead.
Stay postive, yeah, and when you die of happiness, tell Napoleon Hill he can suck my dick.
Oprah and "The Secret": positive thinking your way into a massive, cross-promotional pyramid scheme
Religion - Salon.com
With all the billions being wasted...we could easily...really...move the entire frickin' US economy to a hydrogen fuel cell based economy and with it an entire new infrastructure and manufacturing base that could employ many many many people.
So exactly how are we preserving capitalism by socializing so much loss created by a concentration of asshats whom thought derivatives and other leveraging of debt would be a good thing. Who actually thought manufacturing debt is the New Capitalism. Sadly they were so very wrong and Marx, ironically enough, had capitalism and political economy down pretty damn well.
At least the Chinese understand this too. The make stuff and sell it to us at a profit and buy our debt also at a profit. A wonderful circle that will probably survive even a turn down in their economy. All we do is consume crap and then crap debt.
CR: Please post the 4 Bad Bears chart tonite. Thanks!
"Virgil writes:
Let's see, AIG have already gotten $150 billion, if they need another $60 that's $210 billion. The newest aircraft carrier costs about $8 billion. So AIG cost the US about 26 aircraft carriers?
Virgil | 02.23.09 - 3:22 pm |"
Shit. I could have been King of the World with that fleet.
Outsider writes:
DJ off the clock writes:
BloombergTV right now - beer and alcohol sales falling
alybaba | 02.23.09 - 3:09 pm | #
Too bad as heavy drinking is probably what we all need.
People home brewing?
Got 6 beers/ciders/meads on tap, and around 3 months supply in bottles.
Why pay $7 bucks for a great beer when I can make a better one for 70 cents.
dylan says us doesnt need citi and maria looked like she needed the heimlich
asty little cliff there on the dow during the "real" sessio
It's always been a facade anyway, most people die within four or five years of retirement anyway...save the lucky few.
CK, can you provide evidence?
743
CRVIX with a lunchtime surge....
will it blow up at a thousand?
Feels like a Merril Monday.
running for the exits at this point...
Ciao
MS
Nightstand cowboy will be singin' some loney heart club tunes again tonight.
km4
I distinctly remember you being a cheerleader for O (I was too) not 2 days ago. Has hope vanished so quickly?
This is gonna leave yet another mark!
OCDan | 02.23.09 - 3:29 pm | #
Skidmarks.
Are bankers jumping yet?
Best curry I ever had was goat. It was in London, downtown not far from Fleet Street, right next to the theater district. I spent the evening wandering taking it in with a nice Welshman that I was trying in vain to train to use mo-cap editing software.
The grey goat curry was the highlight of my trip. I'm not positive but I think it was yet another Indian restaurant named 'Star of India'.
PULL UP, PULL UP, PULL UP
DJIA augering i
CR: Please post the 4 Bad Bears chart tonite. Thanks!
8 Ball | 02.23.09 - 3:30 pm | #
Can we get and overlay for the Nikkei as well? I would love to see how we stand up against that bear market.
CR: Please post the 4 Bad Bears chart tonite. Thanks!
8 Ball | 02.23.09 - 3:30 pm | #
its dshort.com - Financial Life Cycle Planning if he doesnt... i looked at it this smorning....
Interesting Times writes:
Why aren't they jumping from their offices???
Jump you f*rs! JUMP!
Did you mean their orifices?
Alright Rocky. I am going to have to go nuclear on you. Gonna slap you with an Anderson.
YouTube - Lynn Anderson -- Rose Garden
Sheesh 60 billion writedown? huh? You can almost buy Apple with that. Well, in a few days you can.
Nobody in Hawaii writes:
Why pay $7 bucks for a great beer when I can make a better one for 70 cents.
Sing it, brother. That's half of my new investment portfolio.
Calculated Risk writes:
CNBC: Citi deal will be done soon. 40% stake in Citi. Deal is "done"
F#&@k it, might the U in the USA might as will be "Undead".
I don't even see what Geithner et al could say that could materially help this situation.
AIG needs another $200b. The $60b in losses are new, on CRE.
The swaps we already own backstop the European banking system. I'm recalling that AIG has something like $350-400b of exposure there. If those fail, European banks have to raise additional regulatory capital. Not really possible in this environment.
We already own ~80% of it. It's not like we're going to be able to buy $200b of a 50 cent stock.
So, what the heck do they do?
Throw Europe under a bus?
BloombergTV right now - beer and alcohol sales falling
alybaba | 02.23.09 - 3:09 pm | #
And Misean said i was foolish to short Sam... To bad I didnt have enough balls to ride it to where it is now....
....................
\tCR: Please post the 4 Bad Bears chart tonite. Thanks!
8 Ball | 02.23.09 - 3:30 pm | #
Since we're linking to our own blogs...
Socialized Losses: Four Bad Bears and a Crystal Ball
With all the billions being wasted...we could easily...really...move the entire frickin' US economy to a hydrogen fuel cell based economy
======
uhhhh, no
excuse my ignorance but if a company takes the loss as a writedown vs write off, then to philisophically have a "loss" one would have to marked to market or at least valued the former asset that they are now taking the loss against, correct? So are these the same assets that they say they cant value, or have off sheet, or are these losses from their normal day to day ops, and if so then do we really want to financially support (temporarily) a mortally wounded company????? Isnt it worse if these arent their CDS, offf sheet shi*?
@ alybaba | 02.23.09 - 3:31 pm | #
Yes i voted for Obama but his bonehead economic policy calls of putting billions more into zombie banks have turned me into a doubter.
The majority of posters on this board knew this was coming. The running joke here for months was the Bush admin was kicking the can down the road to make sure the collapse happened under the Democrats watch. Now it has arrived in spades and we all act surprised?
Controlled crash, simpler demands on the environment, more community oriented living and everyone gardens.
War, famine, fascism, and collapse are also possible.
Blogging in real time is such a hoot. History will be kind to us by referring to the well informed minority who left a written account of how ineffectual knowledge can be.
CK, can you provide evidence?
Citizen Scotto | 02.23.09 - 3:30 pm | #
That's assuming you aren't one of the lucky ones that retire before 65
CK, can you provide evidence?
Citizen Scotto | 02.23.09 - 3:30 pm | #
Optimum Strategies for Creativity and Longevity
Microsoft requesting clawbacks from the rank & file recently laid-off:
Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
What about clawbacks from those who made this mess?
Bouncing now... "All is well"
get ready..mrkt opens in 1..2..3
@#$@#(* haloscan.
Socialized Losses: Four Bad Bears and a Crystal Ball
"Throw Europe under a bus?"
Precisely.....although we sort of did it already exporting our.....ahem...financial "products".
The Euro remains the naked man in the phone booth.
Ciao
MS
remember that scene in 'wonderful life' when they close the bank doors and have two dollars left
ades writes:
CR: Please post the 4 Bad Bears chart tonite. Thanks!
8 Ball | 02.23.09 - 3:30 pm | #
its dshort.com - Financial Life Cycle Planning if he doesnt... i looked at it this smorning....
nades | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:31 pm | #
This chart is officially no longer called the 4 Bad Bears.
The new name for this chart is...
The FOUR HORSEMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE!!!
Microsoft requesting clawbacks from the rank & file recently laid-off:
newbie | 02.23.09 - 3:34 pm | #
Whats that saying about blood and stones?
Yay! That really WAS the bottom.
Alright Rocky. I am going to have to go nuclear on you. Gonna slap you with an Anderson.
nova | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:32 pm | #
Nova. We're not friends, anymore.
Skyin' 'em, boss!
8 Ball, I will post the chart after the close. It looks like there will be a new low for this bear market today
best to all
OK, I get to flog the real future! As revealed by me. Your future! And you over there tending bar! You to. gather round and click my homepage. Read the story. Fear and repent is all we have left.
"Throw Europe under a bus?"
I think it more appropriate to throw them under a TGV
New Feature: Inline Commenting for Bill Text
A quick scan through the legislation pending in Congress and things look pretty good. Theyre working on fixing the economy, helping people keep their homes, protecting children from online predators, etc. But with every piece of legislation, there is the ideal it represents, and then there is the specific changes to the law it proposes in order to achieve that ideal.
Usually its the specifics that really matter. Thats why were adding inline commenting for all legislative text on OpenCongress.
New Feature: Inline Commenting for Bill Text - Blog - OpenCongress
"Now it has arrived in spades and we all act surprised?"
Nope.
Maria: "NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.... someday, these stocks will come back".
The FOUR HORSEMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE!!!
OCDan | 02.23.09 - 3:35 pm | #
LOL!
Barry had a good pic up this smorning tooo...
RockyR | 02.23.09 - 3:36 pm
Stay away from the HS hater-aide.
"Comrade Elmer Fudd writes:
Show me exactly how AIG is actually producing anything of value to the economy."
INSURANCE IS ONLY A DRAIN. THERE IS NO PRODUCTIVITY CREATED BY INSURANCE.
INSURANCE IS THE BIGGEST PARASITE OF ALL.
MS
Looking at Europe you have slow growing mature economies that leverages up through their banks and/or government to create a specter of prosperity and growth. Europe wanted to believe in the false promises of the CDO's and MBS's. They had no growth trajectory to begin with.
Try out this test sentence: Now is a great time to buy!
Why aren't they jumping from their offices???
Jump you f*rs! JUMP!
As requested :-
jump-you-fuckers on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Logic: "NO DOUBT ABOUT IT....someday, these stocks will not longer be around".
TCA writes:
Yay! That really WAS the bottom.
TCA | 02.23.09 - 3:36 pm | #
I hope your not holding your breath !!
rent_to_own, re: focus on European banks
Summary
The $1.6 trillion of lending to emerging europe is cross-border/cross-currency. There is additional exposure of western european owned domestic subsidiaries in those countries.
The default concern is so high because of the impetus behind emerging europe's economic growth since 2003. Exports represent a large part of GDP and are contracting. No longer fuel for the real growth on the ground, naked "hedging" taking down companies but unlike Brazil their countries can't cover the bets and defend the currency.
The IMF loan to Latvia which allowed them to keep the Euro peg will be the exception and not the rule.
Simply put the recent focus is because emerging europe is where the next milestone will be placed in this unraveling.
I'm sure the alleged EC report on £16.3tn in impaired assets (44%) across banks in the Eurozone did not help either.
o surprise here my friend.....just tacit surprise that it took this long.
Ciao
MS
\tMaria: "NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.... someday, these stocks will come back".
Eric | 02.23.09 - 3:37 pm | #
Someday another giant asteroid will hit the earth.
BAC, C, WFC, STI, PNC, all up big today.
So is SKF.
Denial up big.
No transparency, no peace.
Whgere is that article where cramer says pisani is an easy information plant?
Ok so that link didnt work... try this.... and Barry if you're reading this. What does "harshing my mellow" mean?
We need a new Four Horseman for this enlighted era.
The Maria - The Horsewomen of Hysteria, whereever she rides people feel the need to get a hug, and go shopping
Bouncing now... "All is well"
Eric | 02.23.09 - 3:34 pm | #
Yeah. We must have hit bottom.
/ducks
What about clawbacks from those who made this mess?
newbie | 02.23.09 - 3:34 pm | #
It's impossible to live in Manhattan for less than $1 million.
That's assuming you aren't one of the lucky ones that retire before 65
CK, can you provide evidence?
Citizen Scotto | 02.23.09 - 3:30 pm | #
ca...clnk - Google Search gl=us
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:34 pm | #
I call BS on Table 1. No way does the average retiree at 65 have a remaining lifespan of only 2 years. No way. He provides no evidence to back it up except "based on Boeing retirement checks"
714 Visitors Online
Can I haz some of that.
I really need something to dull the pain.
Well, defenestration is best assisted anyway, I volunteer to personally help a few bankers take the leap.
tim-
that's not news to me...perhaps for some.
Ciao
MS
1 currency almost [yogi] writes:
BAC, C, WFC, STI, PNC, all up big today.
So is SKF.
Denial up big.
RKH holding up as well.
It's impossible to live in Manhattan for less than $1 million.
Doug Watts | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:39 pm | #
Don't live there. Problem solved.
Too big to bail
SPG, VNO now -9%. No bottom in sight.
Citizen Scotto
Yup. BS
tomorrow will be a big up day for gold and silver.
same as harshing my buzz
AIG is definitely a black hole. Money goes in, but doesn't come out.
SPG, VNO now -9%. No bottom in sight.
1 currency almost [yogi] | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 3:40 pm | #
Its just starting....
Four out of five American's upset over the shape of The State, the other one works for The Goverment.
The idea that the U.S. govt. is continuing to fling money at bankrupt financial companies is very bullish for gold and silver.
Get mad about it all you want.
Or buy gold and silver and get even.
We seem to still be running at about early 1997, the Dow crossed the 7000 mark in early 1997, but lost ground for a few months before regaining 7000 and above. So, I would say still 1997, dang! I'm 50 again... lol
Somehow that comment about the four horsemen put a pleasant 'Deth Klok' flashback into my head.
Citizen Scotto writes:
I call BS on Table 1. No way does the average retiree at 65 have a remaining lifespan of only 2 years. No way. He provides no evidence to back it up except "based on Boeing retirement checks"
Citizen Scotto | 02.23.09 - 3:39 pm |
Sounds like they have a very effective benefits package team. Deny all heath claims till they die, and if it gets close, send out the wet team. Medicare / SS (Social Security) of the future.
Four out of five American's upset over the shape of The State, the other one works for The Goverment.
So true. but even they will complain when they get 1 day of vacation away. "How can I just go to FIJI for 13 days?"