Why didn't the Fed move more aggressively to understand the underwriting issues, and why did they drag their feet for the next two years? - CR
Come on. Follow the money. Wall street was getting rich like never before off of the mortgage fraud. Bies and the rest of the fed are wall street puppets.
Bernanke actually viewed soaring housing prices as a sign of prosperity as opposed to senseless and credit creation and unpayable debt!
There was no black swan event. It was institutionalized FRAUD!
Little noticed....the Wells/Wachovia tax break is DEAD per the O stimulus plan:
Notice 2008-83 restricted: The act expresses Congresss doubt about the legal authority of Notice 2008-83 (the Wells Fargo Ruling) and states that it is inconsistent with Congressional intent in enacting section 382(m).
OT
I wish someone would ask Cramer how to profit from the global cooling. No sun spots and low solar activity means global temperatures are now at 100 year lows.
The correct word is "responsible." She is only "accountable" if something bad happens to her. Given the magnitude of the blunder, it would have to be very bad indeed.
\tThe correct word is "responsible." She is only "accountable" if something bad happens to her. Given the magnitude of the blunder, it would have to be very bad indeed. Plantagenet | 02.23.09 - 6:34 pm | #
She didn't say she WAS accountable, only that she FEELS accountable.
Companies raising payouts may become more valuable. Oak Brook, Illinois-based McDonalds, which returned 8.6 percent during the worst year for U.S. stocks since 1937, is undervalued by 46 percent from last weeks closing price of $54.57, according to a dividend discount model that adjusts for earnings and dividend growth over time.
Were Confident
The company, which boosted its payout every year since 1976, is set to pay $2.17 a share in 2009. That represents an increase of 34 percent from $1.625 last year, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Spokeswoman Heidi Barker declined to comment on the future of the companys dividend policy.
P&G, located in Cincinnati, is worth 42 percent more than its market price of $50.25 last week, according to the measure. Analysts estimate the company, which makes everything from Tide laundry detergent to Charmin toilet paper and has increased its dividend for 52 consecutive years, will give investors $1.625 a share this fiscal year, a 12 percent increase from a year ago.
Were confident we can sustain strong dividends, P&G Chief Executive Officer A.G. Lafley said at an analyst conference in Boca Raton, Florida on Feb. 19.
I'd also like to know "Why are we still looking to Wall St and The Fed for solutions?"
There are many mid-sized and some large banks that are just fine. No one summoned their mgt before Congress to ask them what their plans are. It their mgt were on CNBC, they'd be dismissed as old fashioned.
I must be a friggin' genius because I could see the sh*t coming to hit the fan before a member of the Fed. Do I get a prize, maybe a tiara or beads in honor of Mardi Gras?
I'm sympathetic. Its tough for any government bureacrat to stand between someone and a big sh*tpile of money. If someone at the FED had actually tried to rein in the good times, the squawking would have been deafining.
Everybody wanted more home ownership - remember, this is Washington - why have money when you can borrow???
I must be a friggin' genius because I could see the sh*t coming to hit the fan before a member of the Fed. Do I get a prize, maybe a tiara or beads in honor of Mardi Gras? locust | 02.23.09 - 6:38 pm | #
During the first half of the 20th century, dividend income made up all of the 5.3 percent return U.S. stocks delivered to investors, data compiled by the London Business School show.
Exactly fresno dan, after all, it would have slowed the "ownership society"...not to mention exposed the fact that wages were stagnant for years and the "real" economy never corrected after 2001, everything was based on credit, a facade.
No one summoned their mgt before Congress to ask them what their plans are. lama | 02.23.09 - 6:37 pm | #
IMO these guys should be the winners in all of this. For 20 years mid-sized community banks have suffered at the hands of the money-centers. We need a vocal small bank lobby to start making itself heard.
No single company is entitled to its market. It's time to take it away from the Wall Street boys and give it back to the regionals and the American People.
I will go long oil only when they start talking about the lack of solar activity and no sun spots for the past 16 months, with global temperatures now at 100 year lows.
At the time, companies paid out most of their earnings to shareholders, compelled by a Treasury Department rule that established penalties for improper accumulation of income, according to the sixth edition of Benjamin Graham and David L. Dodds Security Analysis. The book laid out the principles of value investing followed by billionaire Warren Buffett, the chief executive officer of Berkshire Hathaway Inc. and the worlds most successful investor.
The prime purpose of a business corporation is to pay dividends to its owners, Graham and Dodd wrote.
Why didn't the Fed move more aggressively to understand the underwriting issues, and why did they drag their feet for the next two years? I think those are key questions that still need to be answered.
Well, more than that, why was the Fed turning out research concocted to prove that there was no bubble?
Why didn't the Fed move more aggressively to understand the underwriting issues, and why did they drag their feet for the next two years? I think those are key questions that still need to be answered.
WASHINGTON - From the U.S. Postal Service to the Executive Office of the President, thousands of federal workers have not paid their 2007 federal income taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service is trying to collect billions of dollars in unpaid taxes from nearly half a million federal employees. According to IRS records, 171,549 current federal workers did not voluntarily pay their federal income taxes in 2007. The same is true for 37,752 active duty military and nearly 200,000 retired civilian and military personnel.
Documents obtained by WTOP through the Freedom of Information Act show 449,531 federal employees and retirees did not pay their taxes for a total of $3,586,784,725 in taxes owed last year."
Explains why Congress confirmed tax cheat Geithner
"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes ..." Leona Hemsley
If someone at the FED had actually tried to rein in the good times, the squawking would have been deafining. fresno dan | 02.23.09 - 6:38 pm | #
And there were times during the last 6 years that folks were complaining that the Fed was waiting too long to loosen up interest rates and the money supply.
Nicholas Nassim Taleb was talking about the US banking and financial system and was quoted on Bloomberg. I am shocked! This quote was followed by an interview with Michael Panzner, the author of WHEN GIANTS FALL.
For the past 15 or so years, all the problems in America were pushed into the futureby Rubin, Greenspan, Summers, Bernanke & Co.and one day that future arrived. What else was to be expected from Bankrupters and Fraudsters of New York City (BFNYC)?
Back in 2005 almost everybody was cheerleading the way that innovations in the banking system were making us all rich. It was a time when Greenspan and the ruling Republicans were assuring the populace that free-market magic would take care of any and all economic risks. Naysayers like Krugman were branded as shrill and basically unpatriotic.
In this environment it would have been really hard for a policymaker like Bies' to strongly push for increased regulation. I thus think that her 2005 speech was relatively brave for a policymaker at that time. I place more blame on Bush and Greenspan for having made it unacceptable to even talk about potential pitfalls from the market's exuberance.
No' it's not Armenian. This would probably give it away -- but there is one that even goes like "you tying the goat onto your dad's d&ck, sonny?" for chutzpah.
Everyone thought risk was being spread thin.
Bond Girl | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 6:47 pm | #
IOW, no one considered that one bad apple could spoil the whole bunch...?
I mean it basically comes down to that, no? The small percentage of defaulted mortgages corrupted the whole industry, and by extension, the whole financial system.
Yes, Bies was late realizing there was a problem. And she didn't seem to recognize the extent of the underwriting issues - even though this speech outlined many of the key issues and was given almost two years before New Century went down.
The real problem is that even regulators who were aware of what was going on (Greenspan) chose to act in their own best interest professionally and in the best interest of the politicians currently in charge. I.E. they put their own pursuit of power above the interests of the country and the long-term health of the economy.
This is not a problem of regulation; this is not a problem of capitalism; this is not a problem of free markets.
This is a problem of morality.
As long as we treat the problem as somthing it is not, it will continue to get worse.
Amen, Brother Saver.... we need a few heads on pikes, a few show trials and perhaps a Wall Street guillotine.
Comrade Yossarian
And a justice tree to swing from for the congresscritters that stripped federal regulatory agencies and destroyed regulation for campaignola. Wall Street and the banks couldn't have accomplished their economic terrorism without help from their loyal servants on the Hill.
No worries; Obama will fix everything.
Nemo | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 6:26 pm |
What does China and AIG have in common? A lot as it turns out.
Coverage of the 85 billion-dollar AIG bailout by the Fed in the Chinese media has generally been fairly reserved. That's partly because AIG owns around twenty per cent of the People's Insurance Company of China, the country's largest casualty insurer, and the government doesn't want anyone getting worked up about a possible threat to its soundness or that of their policies. AIG also has a special, indeed unique, history in China. It is the only major U.S. company (eighth largest in the world until a few days ago) that was founded here.
Interesting, but no big deal. Right? Well let's adjust our tinfoil hats for a moment and check out recent news.
"The truth is the Administration needs China's help. America's stimulus is very expensive and the U.S. wants China to help finance it," Andrews reported.
Or to put it another way.
In Beijing, she [Clinton] urged China - - the largest holder of U.S. government debt -- to keep buying to help finance Obamas plan to revive growth, saying "we are truly going to rise or fall together."
Is it really too much to suggest that the decisions to bail out AIG might be influenced by our dependence on the willingness or China to fund America's bailouts? And visa versa?
Or to put it another way: We are bailing out AIG because of their connections to China, who we need to fund our domestic bailouts, in which we are throwing money at AIG, all of which is backstopped by the American taxpayer.
The "Black Swan" event was the paracites killing the host;-) xxxxx | 02.23.09 - 6:37 pm | #
Or it could be GDII pt I the Mortgage Meltdown, leading to GD II pt II China/EU/ME stop buying US Treasuries, AKA Hyper-Inflation/Intrest Rates/Stagflation.
For the past 15 or so years, all the problems in America were pushed into the futureby Rubin, Greenspan, Summers, Bernanke & Co.and one day that future arrived.
Exactly. The can was kicked down the road over and over. Unfortunately, the problems got bigger and bigger until they could no longer be dismissed.
Most looked the other way because they wanted to believe they would get a free lunch.
I like making fun of Obamamania, but I also think there is a non-zero probability that he does the Right Thing with the banks. Nemo | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 6:52 pm | #
According to Quantum Mechanics, doesn't everything have a non-zero probability of occurring?
I think the point in all of this is that even the home buyers relied on the underwriting requirements of the loan.
Most people are not as sophisticated as many of those whom post on CR when it comes to understanding the mortgage loan process.
They had the realtor, the broker, the lender, and the lender's underwriter all state "you can afford this loan." And loans were marketed as a affordability products. What the hell does that mean?
Somewhere the basic fiduciary or quasi-fiduciary duty of various agents and agencies broke down and the selling homes was no different than selling any other commodity.
But folks were not just buying houses, they were also buying land and they were contributing to existing and new communities and neighborhoods. Public services, roads and schools, were dedicated to the expansion or gentrification of these communities.
Once we made houses into commodities we then made them easy to get and easy to dispose of....and this is a big problem. And we compounded this with the securitization of the loans into a toxic brew to leverage yet more debt. And then debt became the uber-commodity.
And we told nearly anyone whom wanted a house that they could have it without looking at the "whole picture."
And a lot of people made a truck load of money on this and got out just fine. A lot of people. And a lot of money. But not everybody wins in capitalism. It is just not possible. And losers often lose big.
That Frontline Documentary, Inside The Meltdown, was a joke. I couldn't watch the whole thing. They were interviewing the crooks when the crime's still being committed. What a farce.
In the Baltics, and Eastern Europe need to get rich before they get old. I read that on the blog below and it really struck home. Time and demographic trends are not in their favor.
Russia, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Hungary, Byelorussia, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania
Not looking good. Russia, Hungary, and Romania especially.
You can also include Italy and Germany on this list.
They can not afford a depression. Just like they can afford a major war. For them, the next ten years need to be bountiful harvests, or the old folks, which will be most of their population will starve.
The long term effects of severe recession/depression may end up literally killing these milleninum old tribes.
Back in early 2003 I was talking to a morgage broker and asked him questions about his products. After listening to some of his programs, I looked at the guy and said he was setting his clients up for failure. He didn't care and made a boatload of money. I am an attorney and have no real training in finance, but even I could see the problem and these regulators are claiming they couldn't see it coming?
They were interviewing the crooks when the crime's still being committed. Morocco Bama | 02.23.09 - 7:01 pm | #
I enjoyed the criminals and facilitators speaking of the events in the past tense as they continue to pick our pockets. How close it comes to "Let them eate cake," is scary.
I think there was a big difference between what the bankers were doing and what the academics said to justify it. Bankers are accustomed to thinking incrementally - they do not see big pictures, only sales opportunities. They could destroy their firms with almost any investment given the chance. Academics, I think, were intoxicated with the theory aspect of derivatives and how it could be applied masterfully to distribute risk. So intoxicated they forgot that bankers only think incrementally.
He said that he wants SEC to pull it--that it is killing the banking system. He might be right, who knows.
I don't hold it overnight anymore. To easy to get killed, but I have missed some amazing runups (like last Thurs or Fri). I got in today around $193 and sold at about 200.
The "Black Swan" event was the paracites killing the host;-) xxxxx | 02.23.09 - 6:37 pm | #
Or it could be GDII pt I the Mortgage Meltdown, leading to GD II pt II China/EU/ME stop buying US Treasuries, AKA Hyper-Inflation/Intrest Rates/Stagflation. Blackhalo | 02.23.09 - 6:57 pm | #
The response was to some guys saying there was no black swan, and that this was all organized fraud.
I enjoyed the criminals and facilitators speaking of the events in the past tense as they continue to pick our pockets. Blackhalo | 02.23.09 - 7:05 pm | #
We'll know we've hit bottom when they check themselves into rehab.
The way I read it, Wells gets to keep their tax break. This just means nobody else gets to get in on this racket. From your link:
"
Notice 2008-83 restricted: The act expresses Congresss doubt about the legal authority of Notice 2008-83 (the Wells Fargo Ruling) and states that it is inconsistent with Congressional intent in enacting section 382(m). Therefore, the act restricts the notices effect to changes in ownership occurring (or subject to a binding written contract entered into) on or before Jan. 16, 2009. (For more on the questions surrounding Notice 2008-83, see White, Notice 2008-83: The Ripples Keep Spreading, Tax Insider (Feb. 2, 2009).)
I enjoyed the criminals and facilitators speaking of the events in the past tense as they continue to pick our pockets. Blackhalo | 02.23.09 - 7:05 pm | #
But if you talk about it in the past tense, it means it's really over right? All this hoopla about it is just whining....
Or so many of my coworkers believe. Repeat it enough, and it's true.
Bill said: "Back in 2005 almost everybody was cheerleading the way that innovations in the banking system were making us all rich. It was a time when Greenspan and the ruling Republicans were assuring the populace that free-market magic would take care of any and all economic risks. Naysayers like Krugman were branded as shrill and basically unpatriotic..."
JMO, but being a policy-maker at that level is considerably harder than we think, and maybe we should cut them a little more slack.
For example, Greenspan made his famous "irrational exuberance" speech in 1996, nearly four years before the stock-market top and five years before the 2001 recession.
If we were in his position, what would we do, honestly? Continue to play the role of pessimistic jinx for years, all the while losing credibility in the face a rapidly-expanding economy and a rocketing stock-market?
Not an apologist for Greenspan, just saying it's not nearly as easy to know the future and its timetable as we think it is when we can finally see the whole picture in hindsight.
Is anyone aware of any blogs or other online sources examining Wall Street CEO public statements over the past 18 months against adverse facts that subsequently came to light?
Seems to me that we have probably had multiple instances of securities law violations, yet there has been no movement toward investigation or prosecution.
In terms of the ongoing TARP/bailout debacle, one would think the possibility of jail time would be a good incentive for some of the bank executives to be more cooperative with programs like the bank stress tests, the implementation of a central CDS exchange, and maybe even the formation of good banks and bad banks.
Jas Jain has a new website. I ran across it by mistake. Something about him wanting people to mail their gold to him. He will sent them t-bones? T-bills? Cash?
I didn't understand why he only wants to deal with people over 65...
It's just ridiculous to assume a regulator could understand the market they were regulating.
On top of that the last thing a regulator should do is interfere.
ie. Hoooooooocoddanode ?
Alternatively the word regulator is govt. shorthand for INCOMPETANT MORONS ?
How many know the original AIG company was founded in Shanghai, China. And also is the only foreign company allowed to operate in China without a Chinese partner controlling at least 50%.
Also AIG funds a lot of the retirement system for the Chinese and the retirement pay for the PLA generals.
Enjoy having paid for the Chinese retirement system my fellow Americans.
And they need more right now.
At least 60 billio
In this environment it would have been really hard for a policymaker like Bies' to strongly push for increased regulation. I thus think that her 2005 speech was relatively brave for a policymaker at that time. I place more blame on Bush and Greenspan for having made it unacceptable to even talk about potential pitfalls from the market's exuberance.
Bill | 02.23.09 - 6:51 pm | #
That's the "Good German" excuse. It does not wash.
query_tool
Correct, only Wells Fargo/Wachovia got the gift from Paulson. It's worth repeating though that Congress all but declared the unilateral rewrite of a tax statute to be illegal in the writing of the bill.
Let me get this straight, they're saying they micromanage interest rates, but can't see why this would lead to problems.
Should I go over to the Federal Reserve with my Econ 101 textbook and explain how prices are set by Supply & Demand? Draw some nice graphs on the blackboard explaining how prices reach equilibrium and what happens when you put artificial floors or ceilings on prices, or interest rates for that matter?
Oh and by the way, THE FED CURRENTLY SET INTEREST RATES TO 0%, WHICH IS BELOW WHAT YOU HAD IN 2003 THAT STARTED THE BUBBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE WHICH YOU FEEL ACCOUNTABLE FOR!
Calling the housing bubble a black swan event misses the mark imo.
Houses were way over valued just like tech stocks were way overvalued in the year 2000. If tech stocks and houses had remained crazy over valued indefinitely then THAT would have been a black swan event. A reversion to the mean cannot be called an unexpected event.
No argument from me, though you have to admit the universe of public company CEOs is much smaller and easier to investigate than the number of folks who may have misrepresented themselves on a mortgage app.
Just a thought about this. Do you think that this crash is different because of the amount of information that we can access now? Just think, before the internet, we were dependent on a very minimal amount of information and that information was what TPTB wanted us to have. They could spin to their hearts content and now they cannot do that.
Washington Post: What Went Wrong.
The meeting of the President's Working Group on Financial Markets on an April day in 1998 brought together Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, Treasury Secretary Robert E. Rubin and Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Arthur Levitt Jr. -- all Wall Street legends, all opponents to varying degrees of tighter regulation of the financial system that had earned them wealth and power. [...]Their adversary, although also a member of the Working Group, did not belong to their club. Brooksley E. Born, the 57-year-old head of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission [..]Greenspan, Rubin and Levitt had reacted with alarm at Born's persistent interest in a fast-growing corner of the financial markets known as derivatives...Born wanted to shine a light into the dark...Greenspan, Rubin and Levitt were determined to derail her effort...At the April meeting, the trio's message was clear: Back off, Born. "You're not going to do anything, right?" Rubin asked her?"
Brooksley Born quit in 1999.
It's the boys club. Women sound an alarm and are disgraced, demoted, harrassed, and fired. Anyone remember Sherron Watkins; whistleblower on Enron's boys club....or Coleen Rowley of the FBI or Cynthia Cooper of WorldCom? The list is long and Bies could see the writing on the wall if she sounded the alarm.
duke of con dao writes:
surprised to see Comrade Kristina on this board... that board the other night was an abomination...
I thought you handled yourself poorly, or maybe it was just the pour talking.
I got though Columbia U. by sharing an apt. with a bedridden 96 year old woman on Riverside Drive and to reduce my rent helped with her care. So please, I carried that water for almost 4 years...
duke of con dao | 02.22.09 - 10:46 pm |
I agree. I do not think many of these CEO, politicans, etc still have a clue about it. Most of them can do email and thats about it. Oh, and surf the web.
--
There seems to be very high demand on this blog for rogue economists, born-and-bred American dopes and even some morons.
Just a reflection of the general direction of America. That is what happens to a country cotrolled by Financial Nazis determined to make Germany Nazis look good. They are on course.
"The worst thing was that none of it had come as a surprise. I had inherited the risky trades a year earlier and warned my bosses about the size of the potential losses all along, but they wouldnt let me get out of the positions. In an investment bank, nobody wants to hear about risks in their business - not while they are making money. ....
Derivatives are what really confuse everyone. Its a term that covers a whole range of contracts but basically they are bets on the future value of something - whether thats a share, a shipment of iron ore or even the creditworthiness of another bank."
Should this economy revert back to the 1930s (ummm, maybe next week???) statements such as "I never, never would have guessed it was going to be like this, never," aren't going to be sufficient.
Translation: Revolts, riots, death marches and jail time for a few folks, her included. And she knows it.
return of the uptick writes:
and those that lied on their mortgage apps.
No argument from me, though you have to admit the universe of public company CEOs is much smaller and easier to investigate than the number of folks who may have misrepresented themselves on a mortgage app.
Well, we need to find jobs for people, right? Sign up the investigators.
Still find myself agreeing with David Einhorn and Taleb.. the VaR model didn't account for events in the tail.. so when you lever up 40:1.. you only need to be wrong once.. and its over.. probability 1.
Looks as though this was a problem across the board in world finance.. as its all linked - and now its ALL coming down.
What I don't know.. is what to do next.. and where to go.. gold? Cash? TIPS?
Ugh.
Hope all of you aren't having the same stressful days I'm having.. lately.. as this song is gettin old
Jas is as funny as genital warts. Every time he is around, it is like CR's genital warts flare up. Don't know about anybody else, but IMO gential warts aren't a good feature to have.
OT: Just got a cold call from Fidelity Investments for free local 401k investment training course. Funny thing is I haven't had a 401k with Fidelity for years.
Just a thought about this. Do you think that this crash is different because of the amount of information that we can access now? Just think, before the internet, we were dependent on a very minimal amount of information and that information was what TPTB wanted us to have. They could spin to their hearts content and now they cannot do that."
I'm not sure. It didn't help me to finally recognize the recession until about October of last year. Neither did it help the NBER, which didn't call the recession until it was a year old.
JMO, but I think the trick is in the proper interpretation of the data available, and not the amount of data available.
From the last thread Anonymous writes: "Production of York Peppermint Patties and other candy brands is coming to an end at The Hershey Co. plant in Reading.
After 23 years in Reading, the chocolate maker is closing the plant Friday and moving production to a new factory it has built in Monterey, Mexico........"
KEWL.. we're going to be neighbours. My little autoparts plant is here in Monterrey too. Maybe I can take my kids over to visit the Hershey plant, kinda like Willy Wonka!
yes, that was one of the worst Frontline programs ever. Complete mainstream BS.
And I'm hardly surprised with Susan Schmidt Bies' admission. Certainly it's the American way to fleece the system and after the truth comes out, plead complete ignorance of the consequences, when all the evidence to the contrary shows obvious knowledge of the crime in progress. There will be no societal correction until complete catastrophe or the revolution.
rps,
I won't deny that men were instrumental in creating this multi-decade global credit bubble. However you have to take the information in the context of the entire male population: there are plenty more when who are poets, scientists, bystanders who run into a burning building to save a baby. There are both good and bad men.
I certainly don't judge all women by the actions of Carly Fiorina or Patricia Russo.
Since I am skeptical of the suggestion that we could avoid similar problems in the future by barring men from office work, I think it is best to work together to make the financial system -- an integral part to society on our planet -- more rugged.
The bank nationalization probably didnt even start as a plan. We will probably never know, as the government still has not released any information on what they were doing, or hoped to do.
It was billed as an exercise in determining the current state of the banks balance sheets. What no one had realized, was how bad the situation the banks were in. They probably didnt either.
One of the examiners was a young lady named Meredith Gonzales. Meredith, who I had watched being interviewed after everything had broken loose, on Youtube. She was a fat, unattractive, Hispanic woman with a bad accent. She was also a brilliant analysis.
Her bosses had never gotten past the exterior of Meredith to appreciate the interior. She resented that. Rightfully so I thought. Meredith had access to a lot of data, and no social life. She took the data from Citigroup, ran her own analysis, and uploaded everything to the web.
Everything meant the banks data, the government data, her data, and some really huge spreadsheets which were later considered works of art by aficionados of that genre. The result was she blew up the American banking system. Then the dominoes, which in this case meant banks, started falling all across the world. They were still falling. Governments fell, and in a handful of countries they did not fall gracefully.
Yes, it will create jobs although I'm not sure of the upside considering how much it costs to house prisoners and our currently ineffectual, overcrowded system being what it is, and more taxpayer dollars going to pay the new "hirees"...Good luck with that...
Comrade Kristina writes:
Yes, it will create jobs although I'm not sure of the upside considering how much it costs to house prisoners and our currently ineffectual, overcrowded system being what it is, and more taxpayer dollars going to pay the new "hirees"...Good luck with that...
Well, we would not have to put them in jail, just make them clean toilets at the VA. See, it's a win, win.
"I never, never would have guessed it was going to be like this, never," she [Bies] said.
I think a lot of people who truly could have sounded the alarm are now pleading ingnorance. Kind of a different twist on President Clinton's famous defense: i.e., "it all depends upon what she means by this."
Japanese Finance Minister Kaoru Yosano said on Tuesday he has called for the government to study measures to support share markets as they are having a big impact on the economy.
"It is not desirable that share prices are falling, causing unnecessary consequences. I discussed with government staff last Friday what we could do generally to deal with share prices. Business finance news - currency market news - online UK currency markets - financial news - Interactive Investor
[W]e see indications that underwriting standards are beginning to weaken. For example, "affordability products"
Somehow over the past 20 years (or has it been 40?), "affordability" changed from being about house prices to being about monthly payments on a mortgage. The American Dream changed from being about personal freedom to being about residences and creditworthiness.
The question isn't "whom to blame", it's "Will we ever get back to basic values?"
Well, we need to find jobs for people, right? Sign up the investigators.
anana | 02.23.09 - 7:25 pm
That's where we part company...
A CEO's public statement is a relatively big deal (inasmuch as it might be vetted by multiple folks within the company in tandem with a corporate communications strategy) and once it is released, the project of examining it for compliance with securities laws invades no one's privacy.
Stimulating the economy by staffing a squad of mortgage app verifiers, to the extent that whatever fraud may have occurred at the height of the real estate bubble is unlikely to occur again, is not the sort of law enforcement initiative I would advocate.
Somehow over the past 20 years (or has it been 40?), "affordability" changed from being about house prices to being about monthly payments on a mortgage. The American Dream changed from being about personal freedom to being about residences and creditworthiness.
I can remember how being "creditworthy" was instilled in me as a teen in the 80's. It's been going on for a very long time...
crispy&cole writes:
"Why didn't the Fed move more aggressively to understand the underwriting issues"
Because GreenFraud believed in the power of the "free markets"!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And how do you really know he wasn't actually "bought" by Wall Street ?
I can remember how being "creditworthy" was instilled in me as a teen in the 80's. It's been going on for a very long time...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 7:41 pm |
But didn't you have to go no doc on your home loan because you didn't have any credit?
Speaking of that loan...did you do your taxes yet and get started on that re-fi?
OT Insofar as prosecuting people who lied about their incomes to obtain mortgage loans (Stated Income or NINJA)the Bankruptcy courts have already had their say.And what they said is simple,the borrowers "income" was not material in making the decision to grant the loan.The lenders always had a form T4506 and could have verified the borrowers income easily with the IRS(online,$12 now).Since they did not perform even minimal due diligence regarding the borrowers income,they clearly relied on the credit score and appraisal rather than the "income" in making their decision to lend.
PSgirl - this was a theory I was pushing back in December or so, that the 29 crash and subsequent debacle was a relatively small community of people all in the same limited information loop, that the recessions thru the second half of the 20th C were relatively distributed and contained, including the 97/98 Asia Crisis, but we've converged back to the "small community" model of financial panic because of the velocity and presence of information on the web.
That's a long way of saying that a small investment community that panics on certain shared information is similar to a global massively multi-agent community dealing with globally shared info instantaneously.
That's a long way of saying you can freak out a village with a rumor, but you can freak out the world when it's plugged in 24/7.
Since they did not perform even minimal due diligence regarding the borrowers income,they clearly relied on the credit score and appraisal rather than the "income" in making their decision to lend.
Tom Stone | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 7:47 pm
Thank you.
Can we please get back to discussing my CEO perp walk fetish?
I find it rather odd the Jas and Werner always arrive together. They must be using INM (Instant Nazi Messenger) nova | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 7:43 pm | #
Do you remember Bama signing Jas' name? The Jas bot is a fake.
Anonymous, yes, I did get them done, already got my refund as well. The reason I was rushing to refi was an ARM reset March 1, it turns out the reset was a wash so my payment didn't go up so I will wait until my husband regains employment to refi so we can use both incomes. Does that answer all your questions or are there more?
Anonymous, your concern is noted. I'm sorry it is so offensive to you that I am actually trying to do the right thing by paying my debt. I could always just walk away and probably be better off, that's not my moral fiber however...sorry to disappoint...
CR, make them stop, please. They are ruining your blog.
CR Companion is your friend. I don;t see Jas unless someone quotes him. He occasionally would say something useful, but the chaff so far outweighed the wheat I finally gave up and "banned" him. Improves the experience here immensely.
NOT Irving Fisher!
It is perplexing. At a time when the stock market is doing it's best to highlight the 1997 blockbuster Titanic, it seems a 10% gain is the logically irrational next step
After the fact it will be explained by a government intervention, a decrease in futures contracts, or whatever
However the end of month mutual fund boost, or painting the tape up and down to draw more money into the table is as good an explanation as any.
you have to admit the universe of public company CEOs is much smaller and easier to investigate than the number of folks who may have misrepresented themselves on a mortgage app. return of the uptick | 02.23.09 - 7:17 pm | #
The return is probably a little greater as well in the event these guys were gettin million dollar bonuses. Going after Joe House Flipper or some grill cook who bought the buy now or be priced out forever line does not have the same level of schedenfrude to me.
Bies said the bigger problem was lenders granting mortgages to people without the means to repay the loans.
How stupid. The problem is/was "mortgages" and irresponsible mortgages at that. If this is the ass whacking we are getting from irresponsible mortgage lending I shudder to imagine what happens when the bigger shoes of other lending drop.
Bies said the bigger problem was lenders granting mortgages to people without the means to repay the loans.
How stupid. The problem is/was "mortgages" and irresponsible mortgages at that. If this is the ass whacking we are getting from irresponsible mortgage lending I shudder to imagine what happens when the bigger shoes of other lending drop.
The United States plans to offer more than $900 million to help rebuild Gaza after Israel's invasion and to strengthen the Western-backed Palestinian Authority, U.S. officials said on Monday
Loan document cheaters could be caught on refi's. Tax returns would show income reality. If they cheated then no new loan especially if government subsidies.
"Alan Keyes rightly calls Obama a radical communist."
Michael, thank you for your intriguing and thoughtful contribution.
Could you elaborate on the differences between "radical communists", "moderate communists" and "lethargic communists" -- and please provide examples.
I see Lenin as "radical", that is unless one takes into account that he's dead, then he would probably fall under the "lethargic" classification.
Thanks in advance.
Your intellectual admirer.
MTHood | 02.23.09 - 8:12 pm |"
The Keys communist comment is his own. I see BO as a constitutionally disruptive communist, or more of a fascist and enabler of fascism. He works for the worlds imperial powers and enforces their continued control.
This is why I thank God for the economic catastrophe. The catastrophe is the only thing that will sap their power.
Jas strikes me as being a character on the Phil Hendrie show. You just hope it's an act and not really him. Timothy Leary of Geithner | 02.23.09 - 7:27 pm | #
I was thinking more like, Sacha Baron Cohen. There is something Borat-like going on with Jas.
Ok, I'm officially sick of the playground sh!t going on, Jas.
I've spent many months trying to remain distant from the ridiculous fray that you create. I am no longer in that space. I quite like your content, repetitive as it is, but the manner of your attempted takedown of CR Board stalwarts over the last 24 hours cannot go unanswered. Why try to take down nova or EHP for crying out loud?
Have a crack at me again, as you have in the past during the NotCanada posting fiasco, in which you were clearly collusive, but expect a fairly vigorous response.
I don't know if this was posted earlier, but it is hilarious. Video of the CNBC 1M Portfolio Contest Winners.
Whoops... 2
PSgirl
.
So she was doing currency trades, ultrashort financials, and some 'contrarian' bank stocks-- sounds like something a lot of CR peeps would try.
The son of one of the biggest CIA spymasters ever, whose career puts him (the son) in government in a way that could put him at least in major contact with his father's old company... and now AIG, with its links to China and the destabilization of the economy, spending billions... how?
All I'm saying, if you wanted to conduct Naomi Klein-style "shock therapy" on a nation, these are the kinds of guys who might be in charge. I'm not saying they are, but I think these kinds of ties are worth investigating more.
add on to this post from previous thread
In Beijing, she [Clinton] urged China - - the largest holder of U.S. government debt to keep buying to help finance Obamas plan to revive growth, saying we are truly going to rise or fall together.
Is it really too much to suggest that the decisions to bail out AIG might be influenced by our dependence on the willingness or China to fund Americas bailouts? And visa versa?
Or to put it another way: We are bailing out AIG because of their connections to China, who we need to fund our domestic bailouts, in which we are throwing money at AIG, all of which is backstopped by the American taxpayer.
Anonymous, I work a fulltime job, 9 hours a shift, I also tend to an elderly Uncle. I post between working, cooking, shopping and paying bills...Not sure what you would like me to do? My county is a 9% unemployment, that's U3, so we an safely say it's over 15% U6. Maybe I should rob a bank in my "free" time?
So she was doing currency trades, ultrashort financials, and some 'contrarian' bank stocks-- sounds like something a lot of CR peeps would try.
scone | 02.23.09 - 8:51 pm | #
Someone slowing us down to catch up on daily comments or the PTB slowing us down?
Michael
.
It's just some kind of shareware, I suppose, that's operating beyond it's design limits. I could say the same about myself, so I shouldn't complain.
Bama, you and I don't usually see eye to eye, but I'm finished with Anonymous, somehow he has the idea that he is the internet "police"...yet can't manage to post with a handle...nuff said
You have some wonderful wedding photos there, such a great family. I sometimes wish I had had a beach wedding like yours. And that DRESS!!! HIGH-PITCHED GIRL SQUEALS
Gawd I hate to get in the middle of a good Jas-bashing,
but...
Seems like Morocco Bama is a Georgia boy.
Got no firm proof, but he wrote a post a while back about big-haired, Chevy Subdivision-driving ladies that had me convinced he was talking about the GA 400.
Sorry to cast aspersions on the Jas persecution-fest.
Oh yeah: I think the sheep run scared in Tehachapi...
The prime purpose of a business corporation is to pay dividends to its owners, Graham and Dodd wrote.
Funny someone else should bring this up, when I brought it up in a thread a few weeks ago Dirk Van Dick attacked my idea of eliminating the double taxation of dividends. I still contend I am right - forcing companies to return cash to shareholders will give them some discipline and prevent empire building. Why does GE exist, for example? As an investor I am better off accumulating all their different business separately.
And I don't buy the BS about stock buybacks being a way to return money to shareholders, that is pure crap. Stock buybacks just counter the dilution from granting obscene amounts of options to management.
But I guess Dirk Van Dick is smarter than Graham and Dodd.
It's going to take the rest of the lifetimes on most investors to recover from Obama's first 2 months in office. bearly | 02.23.09 - 8:47 pm | #
bearly, you've been flooding this board with inane stupidity for quite a while. What the hell did you think you just said? Are you suggesting it's Obama's fault? Don't you realize how badly Bush fucked up the economy? Of course you don't. You're a Neanderthal Republican.
Thanks scone, the entire thing including outfits, food, and liquor cost less than a grand...Everyone had a great time too....
Comrade Kristina
.
I did a less expensive wedding too, it was fine, and we put the money down on our first condo. Although my dress was like something out of the '80's. Big puffy sleeves, big skirt. Laura Ashley. Sigh. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
PSGirl, Counterpointer
Second time writing this, Phone/Haloscan ate the first edition.
I think the low cost, flexible, rich, and widespread information networks at present are an important feature of the financial system crisis, but not ultimately so.
Their presence should, in my opinion:
speed up the dissemination of information to a broad audience
provide many alternate viewpoints, where every choir finds their minister
So they should not directly alter the market destination, and in the interim the market should behave "crazier". The $50bn Madoff story is certainly a remarkable data point. Huge, but unimpressive 'old news'
The most important impact of the present information networks will be their role in determining sovereign policy. Even there the impact doesn't cut in one direction or the other as the new networks are extensions of prior social debates.
scone, lucked out on the dress, it fit perfect off the rack and was on closeout, cost me 249 bucks...Reminds me of Marilyn's "Seven Year Itch" dress...
Bama, skin color? I have no idea what color you are? It might have been someone hijacking your handle too...At any rate, I'm white and married to a black man so I'm not sure what "color" I'd have a problem with? LOL...
Funny someone else should bring this up, when I brought it up in a thread a few weeks ago Dirk Van Dick attacked my idea of eliminating the double taxation of dividends.
I like the old way, forcing corps. not to hoard cash, to pay healthy dividends or be taxed, penalized on their cash hoardings.
No worries; Obama will fix everything.
Head on pikes!!
Gee. I just couldn't imagine this happening.
Just a lack of critical thought.
What are the consequences of this particular behavior or action?
Simply put, she drank the kool aid.
Just a lack of critical thought.
What are the consequences of this particular behavior or action?
Simply put, she drank the kool aid.
\tNo worries; Obama will fix everything.
Nemo | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 6:26 pm | #
Weren't you just telling us it's not about the politicians in the last thread?
Financial Reforms Going Nowhere - Capitalism Gone Wild: 2008 Financial Crisis - 2009 Economic Crisis - Reforms Going Nowhere
And yet, FHA will still guarantee loans up to $625K (depending on the MSA) with 3%, without regard to credit score in most cases.
Something does not compute.
Why?....
Dear President Obama, here's why:
The Language of Looting - iTulip.com
And for some more reading, Mr. President, here's this too:
Safe Haven | On Transparency of the Fed
To answer CRs question, I'm guessing the answers to those questions are covered under "executive privelage", just a guess...
Why didn't the Fed move more aggressively to understand the underwriting issues, and why did they drag their feet for the next two years? - CR
Come on. Follow the money. Wall street was getting rich like never before off of the mortgage fraud. Bies and the rest of the fed are wall street puppets.
Bernanke actually viewed soaring housing prices as a sign of prosperity as opposed to senseless and credit creation and unpayable debt!
There was no black swan event. It was institutionalized FRAUD!
Cheers to her and Seb for owning up....
Greenspans mea cupla was too weak for me to accept it....
.....................
I can't believe her lawyers are letting her talk in public.
on FHA, up to 625k depending on the location but it's 3.5% for conforming and you'd better have a 620 at the least or goes way up.
Little noticed....the Wells/Wachovia tax break is DEAD per the O stimulus plan:
Notice 2008-83 restricted: The act expresses Congresss doubt about the legal authority of Notice 2008-83 (the Wells Fargo Ruling) and states that it is inconsistent with Congressional intent in enacting section 382(m).
Small Business Tax Breaks in the Stimulus Bill
The whole of the Federal Reserve is accountable.
OT
I wish someone would ask Cramer how to profit from the global cooling. No sun spots and low solar activity means global temperatures are now at 100 year lows.
SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids
Ain't no Ho, like an old Ho.
"I just didn't realize it was as bad as it was," she said.
Is she now working in infectious disease control, perchance?
The correct word is "responsible." She is only "accountable" if something bad happens to her. Given the magnitude of the blunder, it would have to be very bad indeed.
Keynesian economics works until it doesn't.
Head on pikes!!
Asun | 02.23.09 - 6:26 pm | #
Which is worse, being Drawn and Quartered, or being impaled?
C&C - woho!
A tax ruling that may be in the public's interest? No way!
I hope she lets us live in her basement.
"Why didn't the Fed move more aggressively to understand the underwriting issues"
Because GreenFraud believed in the power of the "free markets"!
\tThe correct word is "responsible." She is only "accountable" if something bad happens to her. Given the magnitude of the blunder, it would have to be very bad indeed.
Plantagenet | 02.23.09 - 6:34 pm | #
She didn't say she WAS accountable, only that she FEELS accountable.
"accountable" So does this mean she will kick in some of her own money for a bail out fund?
I'm touched by her admission, absolutely touched...
"every bank risk model, every securitizer, broker dealer, all the rating agencies, were all basically where I was."
There's your answer. Talk only to a self-selected group of self-interested elites, and this is where you end up.
It's as bad as if we entrusted the future of Social Security to 130 handpicked, self-proclaimed insiders. And we'd never do that.
Oh. Wait.
No worries; Obama will fix everything.
Nemo | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 6:26 pm | #
Weren't you just telling us it's not about the politicians in the last thread?
TCA | 02.23.09 - 6:30 pm | #
That's probably one of his automated responses.
There was no black swan event. It was institutionalized FRAUD!
Angry Saver | 02.23.09 - 6:32 pm | #
Totally agree!
Because GreenFraud believed in the power of the "free markets"!
crispy&cole | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 6:35 pm | #
still does... just sayin'.....
Companies raising payouts may become more valuable. Oak Brook, Illinois-based McDonalds, which returned 8.6 percent during the worst year for U.S. stocks since 1937, is undervalued by 46 percent from last weeks closing price of $54.57, according to a dividend discount model that adjusts for earnings and dividend growth over time.
Were Confident
The company, which boosted its payout every year since 1976, is set to pay $2.17 a share in 2009. That represents an increase of 34 percent from $1.625 last year, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Spokeswoman Heidi Barker declined to comment on the future of the companys dividend policy.
P&G, located in Cincinnati, is worth 42 percent more than its market price of $50.25 last week, according to the measure. Analysts estimate the company, which makes everything from Tide laundry detergent to Charmin toilet paper and has increased its dividend for 52 consecutive years, will give investors $1.625 a share this fiscal year, a 12 percent increase from a year ago.
Were confident we can sustain strong dividends, P&G Chief Executive Officer A.G. Lafley said at an analyst conference in Boca Raton, Florida on Feb. 19.
Two words: regulatory capture.
There was no black swan event. It was institutionalized FRAUD!
Angry Saver | 02.23.09 - 6:32 pm | #
The "Black Swan" event was the paracites killing the host;-)
The Fed Board as firemen:
We're supposed to use these to put water on that?
I'd also like to know "Why are we still looking to Wall St and The Fed for solutions?"
There are many mid-sized and some large banks that are just fine. No one summoned their mgt before Congress to ask them what their plans are. It their mgt were on CNBC, they'd be dismissed as old fashioned.
I must be a friggin' genius because I could see the sh*t coming to hit the fan before a member of the Fed. Do I get a prize, maybe a tiara or beads in honor of Mardi Gras?
"I never, never would have guessed it was going to be like this, never," she said.
I feel you sister. LOL, funniest quote of the year? Ever? We're so doomed but it can be funny still right?
That's probably one of his automated responses.
xxxxx | 02.23.09 - 6:36 pm | #
So his inconsistancy on gets a pass because of this? If you're going to bemoan the political diatribe here, don't contribute to it.
I'm sympathetic. Its tough for any government bureacrat to stand between someone and a big sh*tpile of money. If someone at the FED had actually tried to rein in the good times, the squawking would have been deafining.
Everybody wanted more home ownership - remember, this is Washington - why have money when you can borrow???
I must be a friggin' genius because I could see the sh*t coming to hit the fan before a member of the Fed. Do I get a prize, maybe a tiara or beads in honor of Mardi Gras?
locust | 02.23.09 - 6:38 pm | #
Just the bill, along with the rest of us-
No one summoned their mgt before Congress to ask them what their plans are.
lama | 02.23.09 - 6:37 pm | #
Cause they dont know about the new economy. CDS, tranches, derivatives, and the like. Its different this time! LOL!
..............
to crib off upton:
it is hard to get a fed governor to understand something when her salary depends on her not understanding it
During the first half of the 20th century, dividend income made up all of the 5.3 percent return U.S. stocks delivered to investors, data compiled by the London Business School show.
Exactly fresno dan, after all, it would have slowed the "ownership society"...not to mention exposed the fact that wages were stagnant for years and the "real" economy never corrected after 2001, everything was based on credit, a facade.
No one summoned their mgt before Congress to ask them what their plans are.
lama | 02.23.09 - 6:37 pm | #
IMO these guys should be the winners in all of this. For 20 years mid-sized community banks have suffered at the hands of the money-centers. We need a vocal small bank lobby to start making itself heard.
No single company is entitled to its market. It's time to take it away from the Wall Street boys and give it back to the regionals and the American People.
And not to mention (Most) Credit unions..
Note most, Some got caught up, but not most..
I will go long oil only when they start talking about the lack of solar activity and no sun spots for the past 16 months, with global temperatures now at 100 year lows.
Citizen Allenm's plan:
History Lesson
At the time, companies paid out most of their earnings to shareholders, compelled by a Treasury Department rule that established penalties for improper accumulation of income, according to the sixth edition of Benjamin Graham and David L. Dodds Security Analysis. The book laid out the principles of value investing followed by billionaire Warren Buffett, the chief executive officer of Berkshire Hathaway Inc. and the worlds most successful investor.
The prime purpose of a business corporation is to pay dividends to its owners, Graham and Dodd wrote.
It's time to take it away from the Wall Street boys and give it back to the regionals and the American People.
Max,
I think you may have stumbled on why they don't like the word nationalization. Chop chop.
Didn't the banks do a good job of hiding a lot of the high risk stuff in their off shore SIVs that still very few can understand?
The Schmidt has hit the fan.
Why didn't the Fed move more aggressively to understand the underwriting issues, and why did they drag their feet for the next two years? I think those are key questions that still need to be answered.
Well, more than that, why was the Fed turning out research concocted to prove that there was no bubble?
Sept 2005:
http://www.ny.frb.org/research/s...ports/ sr218.pdf
Oct 2005:
http://www.frbatlanta.org/filelegacydocs/wp0524.pdf
Being ignorant? OK, it's bad, but I can understand.
Being stupid? OK, it's bad, but I can understand.
But not wanting to know? Actively distorting reality and living in delusion?
CRIMINAL.
In our language we have a saying. You cannot wake up someone who is pretending to be asleep.
There was no black swan event. It was institutionalized FRAUD!
Angry Saver
Amen, Brother Saver.... we need a few heads on pikes, a few show trials and perhaps a Wall Street guillotine.
Isn't Obama on CNBC in a few minutes?
In our language we have a saying. You cannot wake up someone who is pretending to be asleep.
Ayn_Rand | 02.23.09 - 6:43 pm | #
What Language it that?
Robert Shiller warned this was coming back in 1996 simply based on the historic behavior of asset prices relative to incomes and GDP.
It was obvious that we were on the road to this outcome.
Why didn't the Fed move more aggressively to understand the underwriting issues, and why did they drag their feet for the next two years? I think those are key questions that still need to be answered.
Everyone thought risk was being spread thin.
WASHINGTON - From the U.S. Postal Service to the Executive Office of the President, thousands of federal workers have not paid their 2007 federal income taxes.
The Internal Revenue Service is trying to collect billions of dollars in unpaid taxes from nearly half a million federal employees. According to IRS records, 171,549 current federal workers did not voluntarily pay their federal income taxes in 2007. The same is true for 37,752 active duty military and nearly 200,000 retired civilian and military personnel.
Documents obtained by WTOP through the Freedom of Information Act show 449,531 federal employees and retirees did not pay their taxes for a total of $3,586,784,725 in taxes owed last year."
Explains why Congress confirmed tax cheat Geithner
"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes ..." Leona Hemsley
"Don't you understand, Boogus isn't selling, Boogus is buying!" (in small doses)
All the models said greenlight despite common sense.
Systematic, massive fraud across all credit classes.
Unless someone can name me one that wasn't?
C
If someone at the FED had actually tried to rein in the good times, the squawking would have been deafining.
fresno dan | 02.23.09 - 6:38 pm | #
And there were times during the last 6 years that folks were complaining that the Fed was waiting too long to loosen up interest rates and the money supply.
Oh, it's a minor Eastern language which is rich in pithy sayings.
In our language we have a saying. You cannot wake up someone who is pretending to be asleep.
Ayn_Rand | 02.23.09 - 6:43 pm | #
What Language it that?
xxxxx | 02.23.09 - 6:46 pm |
Why, that's in English. Couldn't you tell? Oh. You mean....
Dunno. Maybe she's speaking Objectivist. I can't speak Objectivist. Someone go get Alan.
Ammiano wants to make marijuana legal in state
Ammiano bill would legalize marijuana in state - CA budget crisis solved!
Oh, it's a minor Eastern language which is rich in pithy sayings.
Ayn_Rand | 02.23.09 - 6:49 pm | #
Armenian? Just curious.....or are you really Russian, and yanking my chain about it being minor?
--
Taleb: The System Was Designed to Blow Up!
Nicholas Nassim Taleb was talking about the US banking and financial system and was quoted on Bloomberg. I am shocked! This quote was followed by an interview with Michael Panzner, the author of WHEN GIANTS FALL.
For the past 15 or so years, all the problems in America were pushed into the futureby Rubin, Greenspan, Summers, Bernanke & Co.and one day that future arrived. What else was to be expected from Bankrupters and Fraudsters of New York City (BFNYC)?
Jas
All the models said greenlight despite common sense.
Morocco Bama
They left that space blank of the input form. They had no clue how to answer it.
Of course, this is about much more than worthless mortgage securities. It's about ushering in a new, braver world.
Back in 2005 almost everybody was cheerleading the way that innovations in the banking system were making us all rich. It was a time when Greenspan and the ruling Republicans were assuring the populace that free-market magic would take care of any and all economic risks. Naysayers like Krugman were branded as shrill and basically unpatriotic.
In this environment it would have been really hard for a policymaker like Bies' to strongly push for increased regulation. I thus think that her 2005 speech was relatively brave for a policymaker at that time. I place more blame on Bush and Greenspan for having made it unacceptable to even talk about potential pitfalls from the market's exuberance.
Microsoft attempts to clawback laid-off employees severance money:
Oops: Microsoft Asks Some Laid Off Workers To Send Back Part Of Their Severance (Updated)
Why, that's in English. Couldn't you tell?
Margin Call of Cthulhu | 02.23.09 - 6:50 pm | #
I only speak Southern
Hey I only get a few seconds to come up with a response if I want to be first...
I like making fun of Obamamania, but I also think there is a non-zero probability that he does the Right Thing with the banks.
Apologies if my snark came across as too political.
I've been following the advice of jas and am all-in on t-bills and swissies.
on-zero probability that he does the Right Thing with the banks.Nemo
What does that mean??
Oh, it's a minor Eastern language which is rich in pithy sayings.
Please. Pretty please with sugar on top don't start singing that awful Styx song "Domo Arigato Mr. Roboto"
I agree, Nemo. The probability of him doing the right thing with the banks is negative.
No' it's not Armenian. This would probably give it away -- but there is one that even goes like "you tying the goat onto your dad's d&ck, sonny?" for chutzpah.
Everyone thought risk was being spread thin.
Bond Girl | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 6:47 pm | #
IOW, no one considered that one bad apple could spoil the whole bunch...?
I mean it basically comes down to that, no? The small percentage of defaulted mortgages corrupted the whole industry, and by extension, the whole financial system.
"Pre-privatization", of course.
Yeah it will be a mess and may shake apart what is left of the financial system. But it is the only way forward, IMO.
"all-in on t-bills and swissies"
Good luck with that. Oh by the way, Jas did remember to explain the difference between t-bills and t-bonds, right?
Cramer bitching about SKF again. I enjoyed it today.
Yes, Bies was late realizing there was a problem. And she didn't seem to recognize the extent of the underwriting issues - even though this speech outlined many of the key issues and was given almost two years before New Century went down.
The real problem is that even regulators who were aware of what was going on (Greenspan) chose to act in their own best interest professionally and in the best interest of the politicians currently in charge. I.E. they put their own pursuit of power above the interests of the country and the long-term health of the economy.
This is not a problem of regulation; this is not a problem of capitalism; this is not a problem of free markets.
This is a problem of morality.
As long as we treat the problem as somthing it is not, it will continue to get worse.
Amen, Brother Saver.... we need a few heads on pikes, a few show trials and perhaps a Wall Street guillotine.
Comrade Yossarian
And a justice tree to swing from for the congresscritters that stripped federal regulatory agencies and destroyed regulation for campaignola. Wall Street and the banks couldn't have accomplished their economic terrorism without help from their loyal servants on the Hill.
No worries; Obama will fix everything.
Nemo | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 6:26 pm |
What does China and AIG have in common? A lot as it turns out.
Coverage of the 85 billion-dollar AIG bailout by the Fed in the Chinese media has generally been fairly reserved. That's partly because AIG owns around twenty per cent of the People's Insurance Company of China, the country's largest casualty insurer, and the government doesn't want anyone getting worked up about a possible threat to its soundness or that of their policies. AIG also has a special, indeed unique, history in China. It is the only major U.S. company (eighth largest in the world until a few days ago) that was founded here.
Interesting, but no big deal. Right? Well let's adjust our tinfoil hats for a moment and check out recent news.
"The truth is the Administration needs China's help. America's stimulus is very expensive and the U.S. wants China to help finance it," Andrews reported.
Or to put it another way.
In Beijing, she [Clinton] urged China - - the largest holder of U.S. government debt -- to keep buying to help finance Obamas plan to revive growth, saying "we are truly going to rise or fall together."
Is it really too much to suggest that the decisions to bail out AIG might be influenced by our dependence on the willingness or China to fund America's bailouts? And visa versa?
Or to put it another way: We are bailing out AIG because of their connections to China, who we need to fund our domestic bailouts, in which we are throwing money at AIG, all of which is backstopped by the American taxpayer.
Daily Kos: AIG: Give us another bailout or we'll declare bankruptcy [Updated]
The "Black Swan" event was the paracites killing the host;-)
xxxxx | 02.23.09 - 6:37 pm | #
Or it could be GDII pt I the Mortgage Meltdown, leading to GD II pt II China/EU/ME stop buying US Treasuries, AKA Hyper-Inflation/Intrest Rates/Stagflation.
For the past 15 or so years, all the problems in America were pushed into the futureby Rubin, Greenspan, Summers, Bernanke & Co.and one day that future arrived.
Exactly. The can was kicked down the road over and over. Unfortunately, the problems got bigger and bigger until they could no longer be dismissed.
Most looked the other way because they wanted to believe they would get a free lunch.
Idiots.
Jas is funny.
When he's making money he likes to tell everybody.
I haven't heard a peep out of him for months, so he must be getting creamed.
The walk of shame:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/19204.html
Former Time Warner and future Citigroup Chair Richard Parsons was just moments ago at the NW Gate to the WH.
âParsons," he said when asked by Secret Service to identify himself.
Asked again, he repeated that the last name was âParsons" and explained that he had a meeting with Valerie Jarrett.
the difference between t-bills and t-bonds, right?
comrade dope albrt
tbills beget tbonds
But Nemo, I don't want the bank's losses. How is that the only way forward? What's wrong with letting them go bankrupt?
I like making fun of Obamamania, but I also think there is a non-zero probability that he does the Right Thing with the banks.
Nemo | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 6:52 pm | #
According to Quantum Mechanics, doesn't everything have a non-zero probability of occurring?
Cramer dumb talking about SKF. Spreading the word about it so more are using it. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
Greenspan was a public persona. He had to posture and drink the kool-aid.
Seb was a nobody. He has no excuse.
CR,
I think the point in all of this is that even the home buyers relied on the underwriting requirements of the loan.
Most people are not as sophisticated as many of those whom post on CR when it comes to understanding the mortgage loan process.
They had the realtor, the broker, the lender, and the lender's underwriter all state "you can afford this loan." And loans were marketed as a affordability products. What the hell does that mean?
Somewhere the basic fiduciary or quasi-fiduciary duty of various agents and agencies broke down and the selling homes was no different than selling any other commodity.
But folks were not just buying houses, they were also buying land and they were contributing to existing and new communities and neighborhoods. Public services, roads and schools, were dedicated to the expansion or gentrification of these communities.
Once we made houses into commodities we then made them easy to get and easy to dispose of....and this is a big problem. And we compounded this with the securitization of the loans into a toxic brew to leverage yet more debt. And then debt became the uber-commodity.
And we told nearly anyone whom wanted a house that they could have it without looking at the "whole picture."
And a lot of people made a truck load of money on this and got out just fine. A lot of people. And a lot of money. But not everybody wins in capitalism. It is just not possible. And losers often lose big.
Was what he said legit? Index down /= SKF down?
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day..
Cramer though...
I don't want the bank's losses. How is that the only way forward? What's wrong with letting them go bankrupt?
Me neither. Let the bondholders take the losses. It worked fine with Wamu & Indy Mac. It worked fine with Lehman too.
\tCramer dumb talking about SKF. Spreading the word about it so more are using it. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
anana | 02.23.09 - 6:59 pm | #
SKF is getting pretty close to peaking. Did you consider that Cramer's buddies want to sell it to Cramer's audience?
Cramer bitching about SKF again.
anana | 02.23.09 - 6:57 pm | #
I like to hear it because the louder and more shrill he gets, the more likely GS goes BK along with his IB buddies.
That Frontline Documentary, Inside The Meltdown, was a joke. I couldn't watch the whole thing. They were interviewing the crooks when the crime's still being committed. What a farce.
Drawing and quartering is worse. You are conscious and get to watch the crowd that is cheering and watching you be drawn and quartered.
Not a pretty sight.
In the Baltics, and Eastern Europe need to get rich before they get old. I read that on the blog below and it really struck home. Time and demographic trends are not in their favor.
Russia, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Hungary, Byelorussia, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania
Not looking good. Russia, Hungary, and Romania especially.
You can also include Italy and Germany on this list.
They can not afford a depression. Just like they can afford a major war. For them, the next ten years need to be bountiful harvests, or the old folks, which will be most of their population will starve.
The long term effects of severe recession/depression may end up literally killing these milleninum old tribes.
Baltic Economy Watch
Back in early 2003 I was talking to a morgage broker and asked him questions about his products. After listening to some of his programs, I looked at the guy and said he was setting his clients up for failure. He didn't care and made a boatload of money. I am an attorney and have no real training in finance, but even I could see the problem and these regulators are claiming they couldn't see it coming?
Which is worse, being Drawn and Quartered, or being impaled?
xxxxx | 02.23.09 - 6:34 pm | #
Crucifix
Drawing and quartering is worse.
rich | 02.23.09 - 7:03 pm | #
I'm really hoping this is just speculation on your part.
They were interviewing the crooks when the crime's still being committed.
Morocco Bama | 02.23.09 - 7:01 pm | #
I enjoyed the criminals and facilitators speaking of the events in the past tense as they continue to pick our pockets. How close it comes to "Let them eate cake," is scary.
Crucifix
TCA | 02.23.09 - 7:04 pm | #
I think there was a big difference between what the bankers were doing and what the academics said to justify it. Bankers are accustomed to thinking incrementally - they do not see big pictures, only sales opportunities. They could destroy their firms with almost any investment given the chance. Academics, I think, were intoxicated with the theory aspect of derivatives and how it could be applied masterfully to distribute risk. So intoxicated they forgot that bankers only think incrementally.
He said that he wants SEC to pull it--that it is killing the banking system. He might be right, who knows.
I don't hold it overnight anymore. To easy to get killed, but I have missed some amazing runups (like last Thurs or Fri). I got in today around $193 and sold at about 200.
The "Black Swan" event was the paracites killing the host;-)
xxxxx | 02.23.09 - 6:37 pm | #
Or it could be GDII pt I the Mortgage Meltdown, leading to GD II pt II China/EU/ME stop buying US Treasuries, AKA Hyper-Inflation/Intrest Rates/Stagflation.
Blackhalo | 02.23.09 - 6:57 pm | #
The response was to some guys saying there was no black swan, and that this was all organized fraud.
I enjoyed the criminals and facilitators speaking of the events in the past tense as they continue to pick our pockets.
Blackhalo | 02.23.09 - 7:05 pm | #
We'll know we've hit bottom when they check themselves into rehab.
anana writes:
He said that he wants SEC to pull it--that it is killing the banking system. He might be right, who knows.
Cramer thinks SKF is killing the banking system? More like a systemic suicide .. if we'd just stop intervening.
--
"Jas is funny. When he's making money he likes to tell everybody. I haven't heard a peep out of him for months, so he must be getting creamed."
Timothy Leary of Geithner,
MORON.
Jas
Crispy --
The way I read it, Wells gets to keep their tax break. This just means nobody else gets to get in on this racket. From your link:
"
Notice 2008-83 restricted: The act expresses Congresss doubt about the legal authority of Notice 2008-83 (the Wells Fargo Ruling) and states that it is inconsistent with Congressional intent in enacting section 382(m). Therefore, the act restricts the notices effect to changes in ownership occurring (or subject to a binding written contract entered into) on or before Jan. 16, 2009. (For more on the questions surrounding Notice 2008-83, see White, Notice 2008-83: The Ripples Keep Spreading, Tax Insider (Feb. 2, 2009).)
Drawing and quartering is worse. You are conscious and get to watch the crowd that is cheering and watching you be drawn and quartered.
Not a pretty sight.
rich | 02.23.09 - 7:03 pm | #
Aren't you alive when you're impaled?
I enjoyed the criminals and facilitators speaking of the events in the past tense as they continue to pick our pockets.
Blackhalo | 02.23.09 - 7:05 pm | #
But if you talk about it in the past tense, it means it's really over right? All this hoopla about it is just whining....
Or so many of my coworkers believe. Repeat it enough, and it's true.
Bill said: "Back in 2005 almost everybody was cheerleading the way that innovations in the banking system were making us all rich. It was a time when Greenspan and the ruling Republicans were assuring the populace that free-market magic would take care of any and all economic risks. Naysayers like Krugman were branded as shrill and basically unpatriotic..."
JMO, but being a policy-maker at that level is considerably harder than we think, and maybe we should cut them a little more slack.
For example, Greenspan made his famous "irrational exuberance" speech in 1996, nearly four years before the stock-market top and five years before the 2001 recession.
If we were in his position, what would we do, honestly? Continue to play the role of pessimistic jinx for years, all the while losing credibility in the face a rapidly-expanding economy and a rocketing stock-market?
Not an apologist for Greenspan, just saying it's not nearly as easy to know the future and its timetable as we think it is when we can finally see the whole picture in hindsight.
Sebastia
Is anyone aware of any blogs or other online sources examining Wall Street CEO public statements over the past 18 months against adverse facts that subsequently came to light?
Seems to me that we have probably had multiple instances of securities law violations, yet there has been no movement toward investigation or prosecution.
In terms of the ongoing TARP/bailout debacle, one would think the possibility of jail time would be a good incentive for some of the bank executives to be more cooperative with programs like the bank stress tests, the implementation of a central CDS exchange, and maybe even the formation of good banks and bad banks.
Jas Jain has a new website. I ran across it by mistake. Something about him wanting people to mail their gold to him. He will sent them t-bones? T-bills? Cash?
I didn't understand why he only wants to deal with people over 65...
Jail time, yes, for banksters and those that lied on their mortgage apps.
All for it.
It's just ridiculous to assume a regulator could understand the market they were regulating.
On top of that the last thing a regulator should do is interfere.
ie. Hoooooooocoddanode ?
Alternatively the word regulator is govt. shorthand for INCOMPETANT MORONS ?
Jas is a born and bred dupe, and holding the bag consisting of swissies & t-bills prove me out.
It's gonna be fun watching him remain stoically silent about his losses, as usual.
How many know the original AIG company was founded in Shanghai, China. And also is the only foreign company allowed to operate in China without a Chinese partner controlling at least 50%.
Also AIG funds a lot of the retirement system for the Chinese and the retirement pay for the PLA generals.
Enjoy having paid for the Chinese retirement system my fellow Americans.
And they need more right now.
At least 60 billio
In this environment it would have been really hard for a policymaker like Bies' to strongly push for increased regulation. I thus think that her 2005 speech was relatively brave for a policymaker at that time. I place more blame on Bush and Greenspan for having made it unacceptable to even talk about potential pitfalls from the market's exuberance.
Bill | 02.23.09 - 6:51 pm | #
That's the "Good German" excuse. It does not wash.
query_tool
Correct, only Wells Fargo/Wachovia got the gift from Paulson. It's worth repeating though that Congress all but declared the unilateral rewrite of a tax statute to be illegal in the writing of the bill.
Let me get this straight, they're saying they micromanage interest rates, but can't see why this would lead to problems.
Should I go over to the Federal Reserve with my Econ 101 textbook and explain how prices are set by Supply & Demand? Draw some nice graphs on the blackboard explaining how prices reach equilibrium and what happens when you put artificial floors or ceilings on prices, or interest rates for that matter?
Oh and by the way, THE FED CURRENTLY SET INTEREST RATES TO 0%, WHICH IS BELOW WHAT YOU HAD IN 2003 THAT STARTED THE BUBBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE WHICH YOU FEEL ACCOUNTABLE FOR!
Nikkei open down big.
Ahhh solidarity see km4 @ 6:57 pm
http://www.nni.nikkei.co.jp/CF/FR/MKJ/
Calling the housing bubble a black swan event misses the mark imo.
Houses were way over valued just like tech stocks were way overvalued in the year 2000. If tech stocks and houses had remained crazy over valued indefinitely then THAT would have been a black swan event. A reversion to the mean cannot be called an unexpected event.
and those that lied on their mortgage apps.
All for it.
anana | 02.23.09 - 7:12 pm
No argument from me, though you have to admit the universe of public company CEOs is much smaller and easier to investigate than the number of folks who may have misrepresented themselves on a mortgage app.
Re: Dow 6000, S&P 600 or whatever.
Just a thought about this. Do you think that this crash is different because of the amount of information that we can access now? Just think, before the internet, we were dependent on a very minimal amount of information and that information was what TPTB wanted us to have. They could spin to their hearts content and now they cannot do that.
Bies recognised many of the ticking time bombs years before they blew.
Beis was the Fed's point person on bank oversight.
How is this anything but dereliction of duty.
Of course in today's world that just means Bies is due a big promotion and pay raise....
Washington Post: What Went Wrong.
The meeting of the President's Working Group on Financial Markets on an April day in 1998 brought together Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, Treasury Secretary Robert E. Rubin and Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Arthur Levitt Jr. -- all Wall Street legends, all opponents to varying degrees of tighter regulation of the financial system that had earned them wealth and power. [...]Their adversary, although also a member of the Working Group, did not belong to their club. Brooksley E. Born, the 57-year-old head of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission [..]Greenspan, Rubin and Levitt had reacted with alarm at Born's persistent interest in a fast-growing corner of the financial markets known as derivatives...Born wanted to shine a light into the dark...Greenspan, Rubin and Levitt were determined to derail her effort...At the April meeting, the trio's message was clear: Back off, Born. "You're not going to do anything, right?" Rubin asked her?"
Brooksley Born quit in 1999.
It's the boys club. Women sound an alarm and are disgraced, demoted, harrassed, and fired. Anyone remember Sherron Watkins; whistleblower on Enron's boys club....or Coleen Rowley of the FBI or Cynthia Cooper of WorldCom? The list is long and Bies could see the writing on the wall if she sounded the alarm.
duke of con dao writes:
surprised to see Comrade Kristina on this board... that board the other night was an abomination...
I thought you handled yourself poorly, or maybe it was just the pour talking.
I got though Columbia U. by sharing an apt. with a bedridden 96 year old woman on Riverside Drive and to reduce my rent helped with her care. So please, I carried that water for almost 4 years...
duke of con dao | 02.22.09 - 10:46 pm |
Yay, let's bring back debtors prisons, it'll create jobs!
PSgirl,
I agree. I do not think many of these CEO, politicans, etc still have a clue about it. Most of them can do email and thats about it. Oh, and surf the web.
I applaud Bies for candid admission of her shortcomings and for her apology.
Her actions help us to see ex-president Bush, who has yet to admit to any shortcomings, as the small, arrogant, despicable man he is really is.
Thanks for all the ot comments on Kindle on prev. thread,you folks are the best
--
There seems to be very high demand on this blog for rogue economists, born-and-bred American dopes and even some morons.
Just a reflection of the general direction of America. That is what happens to a country cotrolled by Financial Nazis determined to make Germany Nazis look good. They are on course.
Jas
May have been posted prev.
"The worst thing was that none of it had come as a surprise. I had inherited the risky trades a year earlier and warned my bosses about the size of the potential losses all along, but they wouldnt let me get out of the positions. In an investment bank, nobody wants to hear about risks in their business - not while they are making money. ....
Derivatives are what really confuse everyone. Its a term that covers a whole range of contracts but basically they are bets on the future value of something - whether thats a share, a shipment of iron ore or even the creditworthiness of another bank."
How the lust for money powers the City - Times Online
graingod
I want one. Just for doing research.
Speaking of Chinese:
Ex-governor Locke likely choice for Commerce post
Former Gov. Locke is Obama's likely Commerce nominee - MarketWatch
In other news, Locke's wife, ex-newscaster Mona Lee, was a hottie.
Should this economy revert back to the 1930s (ummm, maybe next week???) statements such as "I never, never would have guessed it was going to be like this, never," aren't going to be sufficient.
Translation: Revolts, riots, death marches and jail time for a few folks, her included. And she knows it.
return of the uptick writes:
and those that lied on their mortgage apps.
No argument from me, though you have to admit the universe of public company CEOs is much smaller and easier to investigate than the number of folks who may have misrepresented themselves on a mortgage app.
Well, we need to find jobs for people, right? Sign up the investigators.
you know.. this sucker could go down.
all kidding aside..
Still find myself agreeing with David Einhorn and Taleb.. the VaR model didn't account for events in the tail.. so when you lever up 40:1.. you only need to be wrong once.. and its over.. probability 1.
Looks as though this was a problem across the board in world finance.. as its all linked - and now its ALL coming down.
What I don't know.. is what to do next.. and where to go.. gold? Cash? TIPS?
Ugh.
Hope all of you aren't having the same stressful days I'm having.. lately.. as this song is gettin old
"Timothy Leary of Geithner writes:
Jas is funny."
Jas is as funny as genital warts. Every time he is around, it is like CR's genital warts flare up. Don't know about anybody else, but IMO gential warts aren't a good feature to have.
What about apocalyptic energy? Rechargable batteries? Crank radio? A bicycle (pedal power) generator? Solar?
OT: Just got a cold call from Fidelity Investments for free local 401k investment training course. Funny thing is I haven't had a 401k with Fidelity for years.
PSgirl said: "Re: Dow 6000, S&P 600 or whatever.
Just a thought about this. Do you think that this crash is different because of the amount of information that we can access now? Just think, before the internet, we were dependent on a very minimal amount of information and that information was what TPTB wanted us to have. They could spin to their hearts content and now they cannot do that."
I'm not sure. It didn't help me to finally recognize the recession until about October of last year. Neither did it help the NBER, which didn't call the recession until it was a year old.
JMO, but I think the trick is in the proper interpretation of the data available, and not the amount of data available.
Sebastia
From the last thread
Anonymous writes: "Production of York Peppermint Patties and other candy brands is coming to an end at The Hershey Co. plant in Reading.
After 23 years in Reading, the chocolate maker is closing the plant Friday and moving production to a new factory it has built in Monterey, Mexico........"
KEWL.. we're going to be neighbours. My little autoparts plant is here in Monterrey too. Maybe I can take my kids over to visit the Hershey plant, kinda like Willy Wonka!
Volker, give Jas one of your kringlas, please
--
Nova is a m-f-ing moron.
Jas
Jas strikes me as being a character on the Phil Hendrie show. You just hope it's an act and not really him.
Morocco Bama @ 02.23.09 - 7:01 pm
yes, that was one of the worst Frontline programs ever. Complete mainstream BS.
And I'm hardly surprised with Susan Schmidt Bies' admission. Certainly it's the American way to fleece the system and after the truth comes out, plead complete ignorance of the consequences, when all the evidence to the contrary shows obvious knowledge of the crime in progress. There will be no societal correction until complete catastrophe or the revolution.
rps,
I won't deny that men were instrumental in creating this multi-decade global credit bubble. However you have to take the information in the context of the entire male population: there are plenty more when who are poets, scientists, bystanders who run into a burning building to save a baby. There are both good and bad men.
I certainly don't judge all women by the actions of Carly Fiorina or Patricia Russo.
Since I am skeptical of the suggestion that we could avoid similar problems in the future by barring men from office work, I think it is best to work together to make the financial system -- an integral part to society on our planet -- more rugged.
This is what I wrote last night...
The bank nationalization probably didnt even start as a plan. We will probably never know, as the government still has not released any information on what they were doing, or hoped to do.
It was billed as an exercise in determining the current state of the banks balance sheets. What no one had realized, was how bad the situation the banks were in. They probably didnt either.
One of the examiners was a young lady named Meredith Gonzales. Meredith, who I had watched being interviewed after everything had broken loose, on Youtube. She was a fat, unattractive, Hispanic woman with a bad accent. She was also a brilliant analysis.
Her bosses had never gotten past the exterior of Meredith to appreciate the interior. She resented that. Rightfully so I thought. Meredith had access to a lot of data, and no social life. She took the data from Citigroup, ran her own analysis, and uploaded everything to the web.
Everything meant the banks data, the government data, her data, and some really huge spreadsheets which were later considered works of art by aficionados of that genre. The result was she blew up the American banking system. Then the dominoes, which in this case meant banks, started falling all across the world. They were still falling. Governments fell, and in a handful of countries they did not fall gracefully.
Yes, it will create jobs although I'm not sure of the upside considering how much it costs to house prisoners and our currently ineffectual, overcrowded system being what it is, and more taxpayer dollars going to pay the new "hirees"...Good luck with that...
Tax analysis and summaries are out...I will gladly take my tax $5,000+ tax cut...thank you President Obama!!!
The Tax Foundation - Update: The Tax Savings from Final Fiscal Stimulus
"Why didn't the Fed move more aggressively to understand the underwriting issues, and why did they drag their feet for the next two years?"
The same reason people who probably have HIV don't get tested. They don't want to know.
In many cultures, people just wait until the symptoms show up.
--
Elvis is another M-F-ing moron on this blog.
Looks like this blog attracts lot more dopes and morons than it used to.
Jas
Elvis writes:
"Timothy Leary of Geithner writes:
Jas is funny."
Jas is as funny as genital warts.
Can we agree to a compromise? How about Jas Jain would be funny if he were a leprechaun that has genital warts
Where is "good news economist"?
1.\tGood News Economist Says:
January 31st, 2009 at 1:05 am
The Dow sitting right at 8,000 and a slow Friday night open thread
how bout a blogroll of positive news to start out the weekend?
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/01/30/gdp-is-down-1-not-38/
Consumer confidence in surprise rebound - Jan. 16, 2009
Calafia Beach Pundit: Deflation risk is disappearing -- extremely positive
CARPE DIEM: Housing Affordability Surges to Record High in Dec.
Estimate: Top US Firms Have Over 701,900 Job Openings
8,000 looks cheap to me.
I guess we throw him on the scrap heap with Ahead of the Curve, DC1000, Sebastian, Ipodios, Banker, etc.
Stupid looks cheap to me. Always has been.
ova, i was thinking of Meredith Whitney, very bright and will call it the way she sees it.
crispy&cole writes:
Tax analysis and summaries are out...I will gladly take my tax $5,000+ tax cut...thank you President Obama!!!
Apparently I should have bred...
Comrade Kristina writes:
Yes, it will create jobs although I'm not sure of the upside considering how much it costs to house prisoners and our currently ineffectual, overcrowded system being what it is, and more taxpayer dollars going to pay the new "hirees"...Good luck with that...
Well, we would not have to put them in jail, just make them clean toilets at the VA. See, it's a win, win.
Jas is like a canker sore that wont go away.
graingod writes:
Yes, so was I.
--
EvilHenryPaulson is a M-F-ing moron.
All you morons on this blog should form a club and meet on a regular basis.
Jas
homedad43 writes:
...Simply put, she drank the kool aid...
I think :
No, she was part of a corrupt system !
Anyone who believes that they "did not see it" is a fool IMHO.
Nothing easier than to say/lie : "I did not see it."
..."Can we agree to a compromise? How about Jas Jain would be funny if he were a leprechaun that has genital warts
EvilHenryPaulson"
If that were only true. Unfortunately, Jas is genital warts. And that is not funny.
Here's the 'Duh' comment of the day:
"I never, never would have guessed it was going to be like this, never," she [Bies] said.
I think a lot of people who truly could have sounded the alarm are now pleading ingnorance. Kind of a different twist on President Clinton's famous defense: i.e., "it all depends upon what she means by this."
Jas, you seem cranky this evening, something wrong?
Angry Saver | 02.23.09 - 6:32 pm | #
+1 .
Oh Jeebus, The dynamic duo has arrived.
LOL nova, btw, I caught up on your writings, great stuff!
Treasury yields up, prices down.
All you morons on this blog should form a club and meet on a regular basis.
Jas
Jas Jain | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 7:35 pm | #
What do you think we are doing right now?
Dear scone, I warned you, now you've summoned him. This is on your conscience.
Comrade Kristina
Thank you.
C kristina, volker didnt give Jas his Kringla
Japanese Finance Minister Kaoru Yosano said on Tuesday he has called for the government to study measures to support share markets as they are having a big impact on the economy.
"It is not desirable that share prices are falling, causing unnecessary consequences. I discussed with government staff last Friday what we could do generally to deal with share prices.
Business finance news - currency market news - online UK currency markets - financial news - Interactive Investor
Won't work for long but knock yourselves out.
[W]e see indications that underwriting standards are beginning to weaken. For example, "affordability products"
Somehow over the past 20 years (or has it been 40?), "affordability" changed from being about house prices to being about monthly payments on a mortgage. The American Dream changed from being about personal freedom to being about residences and creditworthiness.
The question isn't "whom to blame", it's "Will we ever get back to basic values?"
CR, make them stop, please. They are ruining your blog.
Also, Comrade Kristina, I love your firm italian breasts.
Well, we need to find jobs for people, right? Sign up the investigators.
anana | 02.23.09 - 7:25 pm
That's where we part company...
A CEO's public statement is a relatively big deal (inasmuch as it might be vetted by multiple folks within the company in tandem with a corporate communications strategy) and once it is released, the project of examining it for compliance with securities laws invades no one's privacy.
Stimulating the economy by staffing a squad of mortgage app verifiers, to the extent that whatever fraud may have occurred at the height of the real estate bubble is unlikely to occur again, is not the sort of law enforcement initiative I would advocate.
Somehow over the past 20 years (or has it been 40?), "affordability" changed from being about house prices to being about monthly payments on a mortgage. The American Dream changed from being about personal freedom to being about residences and creditworthiness.
I can remember how being "creditworthy" was instilled in me as a teen in the 80's. It's been going on for a very long time...
All I can say is she sounds like an over educated idiot. Way to much time in academia and not enough time on the street.
geez I guess it's time to set all anon's to irrating and let them fade away. I love you CR companio
Keeping up with the Jones' has taken on a whole new meaning. Now it's keeping down with the Jones'.
OK, my handle has been jacked.
I find it rather odd the Jas and Werner always arrive together. They must be using INM (Instant Nazi Messenger)
crispy&cole writes:
"Why didn't the Fed move more aggressively to understand the underwriting issues"
Because GreenFraud believed in the power of the "free markets"!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And how do you really know he wasn't actually "bought" by Wall Street ?
Looks like a real possibility to me.
I can remember how being "creditworthy" was instilled in me as a teen in the 80's. It's been going on for a very long time...
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 7:41 pm |
But didn't you have to go no doc on your home loan because you didn't have any credit?
Speaking of that loan...did you do your taxes yet and get started on that re-fi?
Barley sed: "non-zero probability that he does the Right Thing with the banks." Nemo
What does that mean??
It means Nemo is channeling Greenspan.
What are the odds the S&P500 goes up 10%, above 800, within a month? within February?
can we get an update sebastian...I need a rosy lens outlook.
OT Insofar as prosecuting people who lied about their incomes to obtain mortgage loans (Stated Income or NINJA)the Bankruptcy courts have already had their say.And what they said is simple,the borrowers "income" was not material in making the decision to grant the loan.The lenders always had a form T4506 and could have verified the borrowers income easily with the IRS(online,$12 now).Since they did not perform even minimal due diligence regarding the borrowers income,they clearly relied on the credit score and appraisal rather than the "income" in making their decision to lend.
PSgirl - this was a theory I was pushing back in December or so, that the 29 crash and subsequent debacle was a relatively small community of people all in the same limited information loop, that the recessions thru the second half of the 20th C were relatively distributed and contained, including the 97/98 Asia Crisis, but we've converged back to the "small community" model of financial panic because of the velocity and presence of information on the web.
That's a long way of saying that a small investment community that panics on certain shared information is similar to a global massively multi-agent community dealing with globally shared info instantaneously.
That's a long way of saying you can freak out a village with a rumor, but you can freak out the world when it's plugged in 24/7.
C
Nova, I did not think that sounded like you. The rest, yes, but not you.
For the second shift,
Alan Keyes rightly calls Obama a radical communist.
YouTube - Alan Keyes rightly calls Obama a radical communist
Since they did not perform even minimal due diligence regarding the borrowers income,they clearly relied on the credit score and appraisal rather than the "income" in making their decision to lend.
Tom Stone | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 7:47 pm
Thank you.
Can we please get back to discussing my CEO perp walk fetish?
*
EHP, 50/50 by the end of March.
Looks tough for Feb.
TBP would never let this go o
I find it rather odd the Jas and Werner always arrive together. They must be using INM (Instant Nazi Messenger)
nova | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 7:43 pm | #
Do you remember Bama signing Jas' name? The Jas bot is a fake.
Anonymous, yes, I did get them done, already got my refund as well. The reason I was rushing to refi was an ARM reset March 1, it turns out the reset was a wash so my payment didn't go up so I will wait until my husband regains employment to refi so we can use both incomes. Does that answer all your questions or are there more?
Submitted for your reproval:
Today's quintessential thread music:
YouTube - Ozzy Osbourne - Crazy Train with lyrics
Anybody else of the opinion that Jas has a dungeon in his pad, where he carefully takes off the wings of flies he catches with his tongue?
"The long term effects of severe recession/depression may end up literally killing these milleninum old tribes."
I think most of these folks have seen worse calamities in the past 80 years or so
Counterpointer, yes, you said that much better than I did.
I really think that historians will say that the internet played a role in the crash.
Uncle Billy, very good you should have seen him sing Take me out to the ballgame, at Wrigley Field
"I never, never would have guessed it was going to be like this, never,"
If there is ever a global license plate or a world flag this above would make the prefect motto.
"I never, never would have guessed it was going to be like this, never,"
An appropriate motto for our species.
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 7:52 pm |
Nope, if you're happy with 10.22% when supposedly you've been working with FHA to get that reduced, it's fine with me.
No skin off my nose as long as you're not threatening anyone about it again.
Michaelwrites:
"Alan Keyes rightly calls Obama a radical communist."
Michael, thank you for your intriguing and thoughtful contribution.
Could you elaborate on the differences between "radical communists", "moderate communists" and "lethargic communists" -- and please provide examples.
I see Lenin as "radical", that is unless one takes into account that he's dead, then he would probably fall under the "lethargic" classification.
Thanks in advance.
Your intellectual admirer.
"Why didn't the Fed move more aggressively to understand the underwriting issues"
It took bubbles and easy money to turn stodgy old Alan Greenspan into "Maestro".
Again, personal gain at the cost of social destruction.
Immoral leadership.
Nikkei is down 2.5% so far.
Global Depression: Catch the Fever!
The Nikkei is just getting caught up. Wake me up if it sports a 6 handle.
S&P 500 futures are slightly green at 747.50.
Global Depression: Catch the Fever!
yagij | 02.23.09 - 8:14 pm | #
I blame the infield fly rule, the DH and interleague play.
AIG looks to be a massive sink hole. Hank Greenberg calls it a liquidity problem.
Seems the administration needs to have a serious "come to Jesus" discussion. Cushion the collapse.
Anonymous, your concern is noted. I'm sorry it is so offensive to you that I am actually trying to do the right thing by paying my debt. I could always just walk away and probably be better off, that's not my moral fiber however...sorry to disappoint...
I found a picture of Werner over at wikipedia:
Werner
CR, make them stop, please. They are ruining your blog.
CR Companion is your friend. I don;t see Jas unless someone quotes him. He occasionally would say something useful, but the chaff so far outweighed the wheat I finally gave up and "banned" him. Improves the experience here immensely.
NOT Irving Fisher!
It is perplexing. At a time when the stock market is doing it's best to highlight the 1997 blockbuster Titanic, it seems a 10% gain is the logically irrational next step
After the fact it will be explained by a government intervention, a decrease in futures contracts, or whatever
However the end of month mutual fund boost, or painting the tape up and down to draw more money into the table is as good an explanation as any.
I found a picture of Werner over at wikipedia:
Werner
I don't know if this was posted earlier, but it is hilarious. Video of the CNBC 1M Portfolio Contest Winners.
The $1 Million Portfolio Challenge Winners
Drats foiled by halosca
Wow. Haloscan has definitely jumped the shark.
Alan Keyes rightly calls Obama a radical communist.
Michael | 02.23.09 - 7:49 pm | #
He's just pissed that Obama trounced him for the senate in 2004.
you have to admit the universe of public company CEOs is much smaller and easier to investigate than the number of folks who may have misrepresented themselves on a mortgage app.
return of the uptick | 02.23.09 - 7:17 pm | #
The return is probably a little greater as well in the event these guys were gettin million dollar bonuses. Going after Joe House Flipper or some grill cook who bought the buy now or be priced out forever line does not have the same level of schedenfrude to me.
Jas, aren't you bothered by the fact that Morocco Bama and you are the same person?
Bies said the bigger problem was lenders granting mortgages to people without the means to repay the loans.
How stupid. The problem is/was "mortgages" and irresponsible mortgages at that.
If this is the ass whacking we are getting from irresponsible mortgage lending I shudder to imagine what happens when the bigger shoes of other lending drop.
Haloscan trouble again.
JasBot appears to be malfunctioning a little bit tonight, deviating from the "born and bred dope" mantra of its programing.
Are we watching a realtime remake of "2001: A Space Odyssey" tonight?
Bies said the bigger problem was lenders granting mortgages to people without the means to repay the loans.
How stupid. The problem is/was "mortgages" and irresponsible mortgages at that.
If this is the ass whacking we are getting from irresponsible mortgage lending I shudder to imagine what happens when the bigger shoes of other lending drop.
In case you are wondering if Bama and Jas are the same:
http://tinyurl.com/5k8j43
The United States plans to offer more than $900 million to help rebuild Gaza after Israel's invasion and to strengthen the Western-backed Palestinian Authority, U.S. officials said on Monday
these programs will face increasing scrutiny.
bahahahahhahahahha
roflmao
Rob Dawg, good point. CRE is going to be a monster and I don't think we've even seen the beginning of Credit Card default...
--
Jas and I are not the same person. I don't know why you think that.
Jas
Loan document cheaters could be caught on refi's. Tax returns would show income reality. If they cheated then no new loan especially if government subsidies.
JNK is almost buyable again...
gotta be at least 1500 bp over treasuries
"MTHood writes:
Michaelwrites:
"Alan Keyes rightly calls Obama a radical communist."
Michael, thank you for your intriguing and thoughtful contribution.
Could you elaborate on the differences between "radical communists", "moderate communists" and "lethargic communists" -- and please provide examples.
I see Lenin as "radical", that is unless one takes into account that he's dead, then he would probably fall under the "lethargic" classification.
Thanks in advance.
Your intellectual admirer.
MTHood | 02.23.09 - 8:12 pm |"
The Keys communist comment is his own. I see BO as a constitutionally disruptive communist, or more of a fascist and enabler of fascism. He works for the worlds imperial powers and enforces their continued control.
This is why I thank God for the economic catastrophe. The catastrophe is the only thing that will sap their power.
The Latest from Denninger:
AIG: Inquiring Minds Want To Know
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 8:25 pm |
ROFL. Thanks for that one.
Sorry if all I can see is you farting around on the internet and not doing anything particularly productive to stay in your home.
But then, you're probably.
Never mind, we've both wasted enough of these good peoples time.
Jas strikes me as being a character on the Phil Hendrie show. You just hope it's an act and not really him.
Timothy Leary of Geithner | 02.23.09 - 7:27 pm | #
I was thinking more like, Sacha Baron Cohen. There is something Borat-like going on with Jas.
It's going to take the rest of the lifetimes on most investors to recover from Obama's first 2 months in office.
Ok, I'm officially sick of the playground sh!t going on, Jas.
I've spent many months trying to remain distant from the ridiculous fray that you create. I am no longer in that space. I quite like your content, repetitive as it is, but the manner of your attempted takedown of CR Board stalwarts over the last 24 hours cannot go unanswered. Why try to take down nova or EHP for crying out loud?
Have a crack at me again, as you have in the past during the NotCanada posting fiasco, in which you were clearly collusive, but expect a fairly vigorous response.
The Counterpointer will not be fkd with.
C
Jas and I are not the same person. I don't know why you think that.
Morocco Bama | 02.23.09 - 8:43 pm | #
Because last time you signed his name, it wasn't intentional. So cut the shit.
bobn | Homepage | 02.23.09 - 8:28 pm |
My apologies, bobn. You are right, I'll download Firefox and CR Companion tonight.
I don't know if this was posted earlier, but it is hilarious. Video of the CNBC 1M Portfolio Contest Winners.
Whoops... 2
PSgirl
.
So she was doing currency trades, ultrashort financials, and some 'contrarian' bank stocks-- sounds like something a lot of CR peeps would try.
"scone writes:
Haloscan trouble again.
scone | 02.23.09 - 8:38 pm |"
Someone slowing us down to catch up on daily comments or the PTB slowing us down?
If you want tinfoil, consider this
Daily Kos :: Comments AIG: Give us another bailout or we'll declare bankruptcy [Updated]
The son of one of the biggest CIA spymasters ever, whose career puts him (the son) in government in a way that could put him at least in major contact with his father's old company... and now AIG, with its links to China and the destabilization of the economy, spending billions... how?
All I'm saying, if you wanted to conduct Naomi Klein-style "shock therapy" on a nation, these are the kinds of guys who might be in charge. I'm not saying they are, but I think these kinds of ties are worth investigating more.
add on to this post from previous thread
In Beijing, she [Clinton] urged China - - the largest holder of U.S. government debt to keep buying to help finance Obamas plan to revive growth, saying we are truly going to rise or fall together.
Is it really too much to suggest that the decisions to bail out AIG might be influenced by our dependence on the willingness or China to fund Americas bailouts? And visa versa?
Or to put it another way: We are bailing out AIG because of their connections to China, who we need to fund our domestic bailouts, in which we are throwing money at AIG, all of which is backstopped by the American taxpayer.
For more see Daily Kos: AIG: Give us another bailout or we'll declare bankruptcy [Updated]
--
I am Jas. You are Jas. We are all jas.
Jas
Don't Cry for Me Tehachapi writes:
JNK is almost buyable again...
gotta be at least 1500 bp over treasuries
I bought some today at about $29--too soon. Went down a bit.
Anonymous, I work a fulltime job, 9 hours a shift, I also tend to an elderly Uncle. I post between working, cooking, shopping and paying bills...Not sure what you would like me to do? My county is a 9% unemployment, that's U3, so we an safely say it's over 15% U6. Maybe I should rob a bank in my "free" time?
i just got done reading several Tanta posts.
we all miss her more than we realize.
Down goes Frazier-san...
Major World Indices - Yahoo! Finance
who cares if Mbama is Jas.
I've got so many aliases and personalities, it's tough to keep straight.
Kristina, don't waste your time with Anonymous. He's a rapist.
Jas and I are not the same person. I don't know why you think that.
Morocco Bama | 02.23.09 - 8:43 pm | #
Because of this?
I've got so many aliases and personalities, it's tough to keep straight.
77aliases | 02.23.09 - 8:54 pm
One a day.
That's all we ask.
So she was doing currency trades, ultrashort financials, and some 'contrarian' bank stocks-- sounds like something a lot of CR peeps would try.
scone | 02.23.09 - 8:51 pm | #
Yup, funny that they beat all of the "pros".
Coit Tower WPA Mural on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
notice the chart in the top right. if my memory serves correctly, those are commodity charts circa '32...
good times
Bama, you really been trolling as Jas since nov 08?
Someone slowing us down to catch up on daily comments or the PTB slowing us down?
Michael
.
It's just some kind of shareware, I suppose, that's operating beyond it's design limits. I could say the same about myself, so I shouldn't complain.
Bama, you and I don't usually see eye to eye, but I'm finished with Anonymous, somehow he has the idea that he is the internet "police"...yet can't manage to post with a handle...nuff said
--
Because of this?
Anonymous | 02.23.09 - 8:55 pm | #
What does that have to do with anything?
Jas
It's going to take the rest of the lifetimes on most investors to recover from Obama's first 2 months in office.
bearly | 02.23.09 - 8:47 pm | #
You mean GWB's 8 years in office, don't you? This has been baked in for years. Obama inherited a mess. Granted, he is only digging the hole deeper.
Stupid looks cheap to me. Always has been.
12th Percentile | 02.23.09 - 7:31 pm | #
There is a sucker born every minute.
Yup, funny that they beat all of the "pros".
PSgirl
Maybe we should have a Treasury Secretary contest and see if Joe six pack can beat Turbo Timmy!
Kristina, what don't we see eye to eye about? I wasn't aware of that.
@Comrade Kristina
You have some wonderful wedding photos there, such a great family. I sometimes wish I had had a beach wedding like yours. And that DRESS!!! HIGH-PITCHED GIRL SQUEALS
What does that have to do with anything?
You asked what this has to do with anything? That you've been trolling as Jas since last november, at least?
Economist Moe Howard 3SU writes:
Maybe we should have a Treasury Secretary contest and see if Joe six pack can beat Turbo Timmy!
Well Gav said earlier that he is up over 1000%. He can go as J6P.
Bama, I remember a couple of things we disagreed about, although it's been awhile since you posted. I don't even remember the specifics at this point.
Gawd I hate to get in the middle of a good Jas-bashing,
but...
Seems like Morocco Bama is a Georgia boy.
Got no firm proof, but he wrote a post a while back about big-haired, Chevy Subdivision-driving ladies that had me convinced he was talking about the GA 400.
Sorry to cast aspersions on the Jas persecution-fest.
Oh yeah: I think the sheep run scared in Tehachapi...
If someone would usurp my handle once in a while, it would take the Thought Nazi heat off of me.
Thanks scone, the entire thing including outfits, food, and liquor cost less than a grand...Everyone had a great time too....
Take that "Thought Nazis"!!!
You'll never survive the Delphi Technique!!!!!
(how's that, Michael?)
The prime purpose of a business corporation is to pay dividends to its owners, Graham and Dodd wrote.
Funny someone else should bring this up, when I brought it up in a thread a few weeks ago Dirk Van Dick attacked my idea of eliminating the double taxation of dividends. I still contend I am right - forcing companies to return cash to shareholders will give them some discipline and prevent empire building. Why does GE exist, for example? As an investor I am better off accumulating all their different business separately.
And I don't buy the BS about stock buybacks being a way to return money to shareholders, that is pure crap. Stock buybacks just counter the dilution from granting obscene amounts of options to management.
But I guess Dirk Van Dick is smarter than Graham and Dodd.
It's going to take the rest of the lifetimes on most investors to recover from Obama's first 2 months in office.
bearly | 02.23.09 - 8:47 pm | #
bearly, you've been flooding this board with inane stupidity for quite a while. What the hell did you think you just said? Are you suggesting it's Obama's fault? Don't you realize how badly Bush fucked up the economy? Of course you don't. You're a Neanderthal Republican.
BTW, the preposition if "of" not "on."
Interesting, Kristina. We don't see eye to eye, but you don't know why? Conditioning, maybe? The color of my skin? My name?
Looks like a horse race.
NIKKEI 7205.16 -171.00 -2.32%
DOW 7114.78 -250.89 -3.41%
Hope it's the home stretch...
"Stock buybacks just counter the dilution from granting obscene amounts of options to management."
truer words have seldom been spoke
M Faber... rally?
Bloomberg News Video
My apologies, bobn. You are right, I'll download Firefox and CR Companion tonight.
Anonymous | 02.23.09 - 8:50 pm | #
Yeah, do that. And pick a fucking name and stick with it.
The formula that killed wall st.
must read
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/17-03/wp_quant?currentPage=all
I thought sportsfan was gone. Wow, that didn't last long.
Thanks scone, the entire thing including outfits, food, and liquor cost less than a grand...Everyone had a great time too....
Comrade Kristina
.
I did a less expensive wedding too, it was fine, and we put the money down on our first condo. Although my dress was like something out of the '80's. Big puffy sleeves, big skirt. Laura Ashley. Sigh. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
Yeah, do that. And pick a fucking name and stick with it.
sportsfa
PSGirl, Counterpointer
Second time writing this, Phone/Haloscan ate the first edition.
I think the low cost, flexible, rich, and widespread information networks at present are an important feature of the financial system crisis, but not ultimately so.
Their presence should, in my opinion:
speed up the dissemination of information to a broad audience
provide many alternate viewpoints, where every choir finds their minister
So they should not directly alter the market destination, and in the interim the market should behave "crazier". The $50bn Madoff story is certainly a remarkable data point. Huge, but unimpressive 'old news'
The most important impact of the present information networks will be their role in determining sovereign policy. Even there the impact doesn't cut in one direction or the other as the new networks are extensions of prior social debates.
just got done reading several Tanta posts.
we all miss her more than we realize.
Capitulated (aka dc1000) | 02.23.09 - 8:53 pm | #
She would NEVER have put up with the shit that CR allows on this board.
"Michael (2) writes:
Take that "Thought Nazis"!!!
You'll never survive the Delphi Technique!!!!!
(how's that, Michael?)
Michael (2) | 02.23.09 - 9:04 pm |"
I'm impressed.
\tGawd I hate to get in the middle of a good Jas-bashing,
one a day | 02.23.09 - 9:02 pm | #
No please do.
And note that Jas stopped posting as soon as I called out Bama=Jas.
So how bout an explanation for why you fucked up signing your own name bama.
scone, lucked out on the dress, it fit perfect off the rack and was on closeout, cost me 249 bucks...Reminds me of Marilyn's "Seven Year Itch" dress...
Video of the CNBC 1M Portfolio Contest Winners.
PSgirl | 02.23.09 - 8:30 pm | #
Ugh, that makes me ill. Makes me think of Vegas.
Bama, you really been trolling as Jas since nov 08?
Anonymous | 02.23.09 - 8:56 pm | #
No, Jas predates Bama. Bama was designed to put his thoughts out after so many people banned Jas.
Bama, skin color? I have no idea what color you are? It might have been someone hijacking your handle too...At any rate, I'm white and married to a black man so I'm not sure what "color" I'd have a problem with? LOL...
Funny someone else should bring this up, when I brought it up in a thread a few weeks ago Dirk Van Dick attacked my idea of eliminating the double taxation of dividends.
I like the old way, forcing corps. not to hoard cash, to pay healthy dividends or be taxed, penalized on their cash hoardings.