"These are the loans that will probably lead to the closure of many regional banks."
And local banks, too. In my opinion, many of the recent bankers had no clue what they were doing. Their friends/clients were making money in CRE, so they followed the money like sheep. Too bad they followed them right to the slaughter house.
Richard Florida, author of the Atlantic Monthly's recent cover story How the Crash will reshape America, is on CBC Radio One's The Current right now. It's coming across as a pretty big pump job for Canada. Specifically Toronto, where he immigrated to, and Vancouver/Cascadia corridor. Florida is a big believer in localized economic benefits that accrue to large, diverse, and open cities. It will be posted in a few hours as a podcast
My wife, who avoids news media on the grounds that it is fear-factory populace control, nonetheless asked me last night if the US was going to collapse. I said no, it held through the 30s and the 70s, it will hold now. But I'm wondering, is that the right answer?
I've seen plenty of talk about chickens and guns, and so on, but can't tell how much of it is tongue in cheek. But even so, many of the regulars here know the score. What's the CR expert consensus on USG survivability in the medium term?
"Dust Bowling for Dollars writes:
My wife, who avoids news media on the grounds that it is fear-factory populace control, nonetheless asked me last night if the US was going to collapse. I said no, it held through the 30s and the 70s, it will hold now. But I'm wondering, is that the right answer?
I've seen plenty of talk about chickens and guns, and so on, but can't tell how much of it is tongue in cheek. But even so, many of the regulars here know the score. What's the CR expert consensus on USG survivability in the medium term?
Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 12:29 pm |"
Oh, I just know someone here is brewing an academic answer for this one.
"What's the CR expert consensus on USG survivability in the medium term?
Dust Bowling for Dollars"
It will survive. Not sure how many second and third world countries will survive, though. All those time shares and land leases in Mexico by Americans will go back to the Mexican gov't.
I wonder what the critical CC deliquency rate is. If the merchants loose confidence in the CC companies... NateTG | 02.24.09 - 12:29 pm | #
It's almost the opposite. CC companies pay merchants, bounced checks do not.
The problem will be when the CC companies are forced to send transaction charges high enough to cover losses. That's when the merchants start doing the math. 1.2% plus pennies per transaction in good times is a bargain. 2.5% and nickels per transaction in tough times is not sustainable. Expect cash v. credit price divergences.
I don't think we'll collapse, but I think the U.S. that you recognize now will be gone forever in 4-6 years. And if it IS still around, it will be because we found one more bubble to ride to 2040. But I think we're out of bubbles. Way to many people are effed right now, with no prospects for decent-paying jobs they are trained for, house ownership, health care or anything resembling retirement. The fallout is going to be ugly.
Bank of America Stronger Than Rivals, Has Capital, Lewis Says
Bank of America Corp.’s business prospects and financial condition are “far superior to those of most of our competitors,” Chief Executive Officer Kenneth Lewis said in a memo to employees today.
The bank has enough capital and liquidity to handle much higher unemployment, based on internal stress tests, Lewis said in the memo. Bank spokesman Scott Silvestri confirmed the memo’s contents.
OT, but what the HELL?
I just checked Navy Federal Credit Union in my Norfolk, VA area-- and they are offering VA (Veteran's Admin) mortgages up to $1,094,625.00
If anyone happens to like charts, CIBC has a Bankruptcy Report from Nov 9, 2007. Economically speaking that would be summer 2006 for America. What blew my mind that the % of mortgages in arrears was down to 0.25%.
If the rate is ever that low either banks were not being adventurous enough, or some big voodoo is going on. Given the high level of greed, the voodoo becomes obvious.
here's how ignorant we've become - the NYTimes writes today on the Bernanke chat :
"The former part of the mission has largely been met, with prices more or less unchanged from their level a year ago, and inflation is expected to glide under 1 percent during 2009."
Talking about the full employment and stable prices mandate, they pulled the doozy above. Rather convenient that at this particular point in time you can say that and yet it is much like a broken clock statement.
As we head from a massive inflation (that was carefully and fully denied) to a deflation (that is unthinkable but already under way) of course we are going to get to a midpoint where prices year over year seem stable.
Just idiotic. Why do they want so badly to give credit to a group that has completely whiffed over the past few years. The FED is just a bunch of screwups anymore.
Does anyone else think that by saying FDR's bank holiday was the most helpful thing he did BB risked igniting a run on the banks? \t martyseattle | 02.24.09 - 12:38 pm | #
Poor choice of words on his part. I suggest; "pre-festivus."
To determine if the U.S. will collapse you have to define collapse. s0mebody | 02.24.09 - 12:32 pm | #
Collapse as in Former Soviet Union collapse. States secede, reform regional federations, leaving the USG either completely dissolved or a sham government presiding over it's own regional federation - the defunct northeast. USD loses reserve status and maybe even credibility as a hard currency.
"consensus on USG survivability in the medium term?"
.....I am heartened by the direction of this country. If we can learn to get rid of some of the "dead wood" and not spend billions more trying to resuscitate the cold, stiff & terminal, we'll be fine. Think of a more localized structure - less stores, less on the shelves, and more stuff ordered - not just picked up. Learn to do more and decide what is really "needed" vs. "wanted".
"What country are you from? The Peoples Republic of Central America. Oh, yes, the countries formerly known as Nicaragua, Belize, El Salvador, Guatemalea, Panama, and Costa Rica? Yes. I believe that is right."
These countries are unlikely to federate solely due to economic hardship and shared language. They've seen a lot of history (the kind we're about to) and still remained independent. The other comment about timeshares and US ex-pats may come to pass, though.
HELSINKI (AP) Nokia Corp., which announced this month it was planning cut jobs, said Tuesday it will seek up to 1,000 voluntary resignations to further reduce costs amid the global economic downturn.
The world's largest mobile phone maker said it will open a global voluntary resignation package on March 1, and plans to increase short-term unpaid leaves and sabbaticals.
It also appealed to employees to accept holiday time as payments, instead of cash, for overtime work in 2009.
Nokia described as "encouraging" the response from employees and unions in proposing ideas to help reduce personnel-related costs.
"We have considered these and are now announcing voluntary initiatives that could contribute to our efforts to adjust our cost base to the current market environment," said Hallstein Moerk, head of the company's human resources. "If successful, the voluntary initiatives will lessen the need for involuntary redundancies."
Nokia said it will accept applications for the resignation package until May 31, or when 1,000 employees have applied.
"But misean-- has anybody hear heard or read anything about how in hell the VA loan limit got boosted to over a mil? when did THIS happen? JFC!
zuzu's petals"
Those veterans have stable $35k a year penisons. They can afford those homes. Really.
"These countries are unlikely to federate solely due to economic hardship and shared language. They've seen a lot of history (the kind we're about to) and still remained independent."
--
CR's favorite term has changed from Cliff Diving to Ugly. He is making progress.
Listened to propagandist Bernanke, a very able agent of the Financial Nazis, give an example of your neighbor's house burning because of cigarette and then the need to save the neighborhood by first putting the fire off. Rogue economists like Robert Reich (kid drowning on the beach), Krugman, etc., are all in propaganda business to keep American dopes doped-for-life and to serve Financial Nazis.
RadioShack Corp. reported a 39 percent decline in fourth quarter net income as sales declined.
Net income was $62 million, or 50 cents a share, in the period ended Dec. 31, compared with net income of $101 million, or 77 cents, a year ago.
Results missed the 70 cents a share forecast, according to Thomson Reuters survey of analysts.
Analysts wonder whats next for the Fort Worth-based consumer electronics chain as the wireless business and digital TV converter box sales slow. RadioShack has been testing a new concept store in three Dallas area locations called Point Mobl. The stores sell a broad array of mobile devices.
A special banking holiday (unlike the normal bank holidays you just listed) is a day for 'resetting' the system. Close all the banks for a few days, allow no withdrawals, and make up new numbers to let the game ocntinue.
I just wrote this at NC and wanted to share (here), because I think it's real and related:
A few ideas here: The falling markets have just hit me this morning and I now understand inside my brain, that the downward spiral is almost The Mechanism or process, by which a discount for future value is being discovered. Hence, as Japan re-sets to a stock market that has headed backwards in time by 27 years, and when you hear that the largest companies there are worth about 1/4 of what they were 18 years ago, you have to stop, sit down and think about this.
We are in the process of redefining the nature of future value and grasping as to what future cash flow is; we are as a global people re-establishing a standard for understanding value, by having an auction that finds a floor for value. The very nature of capitalism and the value of money is being reviewed by a new generation of people around the globe that do not trust the financial system.
The discount for future value is uncertain, because too many banks, holding companies, insurance companies, hedge funds, pension funds, Treasuries, GSEs and a long list of entities involved in collusion and corruption are all unwilling to disclose what assets they are holding -- and so they conspire to withhold information which is needed for investor discovery, for DD, for terms related to future value. This is the very process of distrust that kept banks from lending to each other. Now we have a condition where investors realize that it's not just the banks that are causing liquidity concerns -- it's the entire financial system that is in chaos and decoupled from truth, honesty and standardized accounting laws. The American government with it's decade of non-regulation has peaked out with it's TARP corruption and now they have exhausted all credibility and destroyed all confidence and trust in this government. TARP is the tsunami crescendo that snuffed the lights out of capitalism and democracy, because we allowed our leaders to engage in too many unregulated ponzi schemes. Congress and all the nepotism in our government turned a blind eye to the destruction of America, because they were all crooks on the take from lobby groups!
The systemic global crash is simply a process to discover what future value is and the current discount will continue to increase if good assets are not separated from bad corporations. The longer this game of discovery goes on, the less stocks and bonds will be worth, and the longer the governments continue to be in denial and essentially protect their friends, the longer this process will take! We need only look at Japan as a beacon of financial stupidity and look at the cost of denial and pride. Obama has to wake up to the fact that tossing money at this systemic global problem is not a solution, it just contributes to it!
My best bud Einstein, as you all know, screamed and yelled and spit out that you can't solve a problem on the same level at which it was created, i.e, derivatives got us into this mess, and they aint gonna friggn get us out -- the truth will set you free!
See: § 502(5)(E)(E) In estimating net present values, the discount rate shall be the average interest rate on marketable Treasury securities of similar maturity to the cash flows of the direct loan or loan guarantee for which the estimate is being made.
Also see deal with car maker a few years ago with Jimmy Carter, where TREASURY had an actual contract that a car company had to deal with in terms of future obligations:
Sec. 9. // 15 USC 1868. // (a) Loans guaranteed under this Act shall be payable in full not later than December 31, 1990, and the terms and conditions of such loans shall provide that they cannot be amended, or any provision waived, without the Board's consent.
lawyerLiz: No way my hub and I could afford to buy our house again. We bought home 37 years ago and was always gonna build our dream home but it got lost somewhere along the way, we are just fine and dandy where we are.
Our children ask us often if we know what we have got, damn right worked 30 years paying for it.
Jas is like our correspondent in Pompei, that tells us how unreliable Vesuvius is, but sticks around anyway, and ends up getting consumed by fire just like everybody else.
Hey, asshole dope king: Take your Nazi language elsewhere. When your sons have been gassed and their gold teeth taken, feel free to say whatever you want.
Timothy Leary of Geithner writes:
"What do you reckon is the thinking behind amex giving $300 to people to cancel their accounts? I think they are trying to get rid of deadbeats that pay off their bills every month."
The explanation I heard was that Amex is trying to push to the head of the line as people pay down their CC balances. IOW, get the money before the other CC issuers do.
I do think the USD loses reserve status sooner or later. States are already passing legislation affirming their 9th and 10th ammendment rights. Tainter (author of The Collapse of Complex Societies) uses a lower bar for collapse than you describe. In a very simple form, collapse is society reverting back to a more homogeneous society from a heterogeneous one. People revert from specializing back to each man taking more care of the basics. Standard of living declines, but not instances of "collapse" lead to a dissolution of the state.
"Thieves hid behind a fake chimney to cut a hole in the roof of a Brooklyn bank - then made off with the contents of 60 safe-deposit boxes."
The rumor is those safe-deposit boxes held the off shore account numbers and passwords of 60 investment bankers from Goldman Sachs. And the thieves were former Lehman partners.
My wife, who avoids news media on the grounds that it is fear-factory populace control, nonetheless asked me last night if the US was going to collapse. I said no, it held through the 30s and the 70s, it will hold now. But I'm wondering, is that the right answer?
Have you ever met an American that didn't hold the US Constitution very close to their heart? Sure, nearly everyone thinks that whomever is in power is interpreting it incorrectly, but that just further proves that the ideals presented in its words are those that we still want to be governed by.
The US isn't going to collapse, but don't rule out a wholesale change in who is in charge.
[replies to comments from last thread] Hubbert, no problem. Regarding the thread yesterday; Maybe it was bravado or youthful hubris for why I called Taleb out, but when it comes to clear right and wrong over his last year's returns, then I would rather be in the right regardless of initial statement.
As for Cleveland and other cities experiencing a drop in earnings, that is one economic quandary that has no easy answer. It is the crux of where the government will succeed or fail.
49 sq-mi SBR I think that story was the perfect example of a little talked about, but important price vector for real estate. Joint ownership/renting of a building. On the way up it allows for greater growth, and when things are headed down the group is only as strong as the weakest link. Applies to everything from commercial space and sub-leasing, to residential and sub-divided ownership of a building
"1 currency almost [yogi] writes:
Hey, asshole dope king:
Take your Nazi language elsewhere. When your sons have been gassed and their gold teeth taken, feel free to say whatever you want.
1 currency almost [yogi] | Homepage | 02.24.09 - 12:46 pm |"
You still have a fair amount of inventory from the disaster that was xmas 08', despite trying to sell it below your costs, and soon you have to decide whether to go forward against the 40 foot wave in the guise of retail sales falling, or just go out of business.
They're the days that bankers don't have to work but everyone else does. MLK day, President's day, Columbus day, etc. s0mebody | 02.24.09 - 12:41 pm | #
Have you ever met an American that didn't hold the US Constitution very close to their heart? Zoom Zoom | 02.24.09 - 12:51 pm | #
LOL. I've met very few Americans outside of the Schoolhouse Rock generation that can even recite the Preamble!
I totally agree with your reasoning - I've been saying since the 80s that as long as you give Americans the iconography, the bread, and the circuses, they wouldn't know totalitarianism if it came up and bit em.
I keep reading stories about middle-class people with clean records getting their first felony by clumsily trying to shoplift items in stores, and getting caught in the act.
We are swimming in a sea of moral hazard on all levels of society.
I think the FDIC actually got out in front of this one. Or at least knows whats going to happen. Perhaps they didnt stop it but they've said that they expect many many failures. Does that count as ahead of the curve?
LOL. I've met very few Americans outside of the Schoolhouse Rock generation that can even recite the Preamble! Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 12:53 pm | #
Au contraire mon ami. It is the Star Trek generation that knows those words best.
Doc: The longer this game of discovery goes on, the less stocks and bonds will be worth, and the longer the governments continue to be in denial and essentially protect their friends, the longer this process will take!
This was baked in the "historical" cake. The game will go on as those with a lot to lose cling to their money & power.
They do not care if they blow up the whole system.
LOL. I've met very few Americans outside of the Schoolhouse Rock generation that can even recite the Preamble! Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 12:53 pm | #
My favorite SR song was the one where they called Manifest Destiny "Elbow Room".
When Lindsay Graham, Jim Bunning, and Bob Corker sound sane (OK, Bob may disagree with what one needs to be done, so he isn't included..), This has to be a sign of the apocalypse..
A nutty friend used to carry a fold-up map of the world in his pocket that had all of the countries borders outlined, but no names.
When the Iraq war was going hot and heavy a few years back, and he'd get into a heated discussion with a war hawk, he'd always drag out that map and ask said hawk to show him where Iraq was on the map.
He told me 90% of the people couldn't pin it down on the map.
Faced with such numbers, the federal government is funding a $5 million national media campaign, launching this month, that extols the virtues of marriage for 18- to 30-year-olds. The campaign includes ads on Facebook and MySpace, videos on YouTube, spots on radio talk shows, ads in magazines and public transit and a new Web site, TwoOfUs.org.
00000
A Berlin court ruled on Tuesday that a former cashier for the Kaiser's supermarket chain was rightfully fired after allegedly taking €1.30 in bottle deposits, but she maintains the termination was because of her union activities.
The Tiergarten-Süd district ruling upheld an August 2008 court decision that confirmed the employer's claim that Barbara E., who worked as a cashier for 30 years, had destroyed the company's trust in her.
CR, isn't a credibility rate more important at this point? Nobody, and I mean nobody believes this BS anymore. The FED Chair's testimony is circus, while bread will come in the form of food stamps...except for CA, but maybe it's just welfare checks.
NEW YORK (Reuters) - American Express Co (NYSE:AXP - News), battered by mounting credit card losses, is offering $300 to a limited number of U.S. card holders who pay off their balances and close their accounts
Au contraire mon ami. It is the Star Trek generation that knows those words best. Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.24.09 - 12:58 pm | #
If you're talking Star Trek in syndication, that's the same generation! I caught it every day after school. Ahhh, the Gamesters of Triskellion. That one rocked.
The million dollar VA loan limit is the same as the new FHA loan limit for 4 unit owner occupied multifamily housing. The borrower has to live in one unit and rent out the other three. The income of the other three can go towards qualifying for a loan of up to $1,079,000. Retired generals could pad their golden years with a little investment like that.
OMG-- it looks like, "Yes, Virginia, you CAN get a million dollar Veteran's loan!"-- and not just in the state of Virginia, but looks like lotsa states.
This link has state & county tables where you can do this.
americans really need to start being honest about themselves about the fact that we already have a close-to-2-trillion annual welfare state when financing costs are included. h&hs plus the payroll and pension costs in other federal services...add all correctional costs, and we could be north of that.
how many americans get steady food, shelter and health care out of that ten grand a year we already spend?
Did some government official state in the last few days that 12 % unemployment and another 20% drop in house prices were a "worst case scenario" and "highly unlikely"? Can someone point me to the article?
Listen, dope, I never promised anything of the sort. I am not instigating, I am responding to the incessant use of "Nazi" by Jas Jain in a thinly veiled reference to Jews in New York City.
Jas better hope they aren't really Nazis, who would enjoy the medical experiments on his grand-children, presumably with dark skin, like some in my family.
"These banks will never be undercapitalized because you keep pouring money into them."
OMG Honesty! Some one shoot this senator now! Security, Security, Security!!!!
Dodd Asshole: We need to be careful about what we say here because, man, you are talking about reality and that could fuck up everything we're trying to do here for these banks.
My son is a vet. It is conceivable that someday he may have a high income. He went to college after service and is now getting a master's degree.
True, the high income some day thing is getting less and less likely. But being a vet doesn't necessarily mean you stayed in for 20 years. Now, whether the va ought to be guaranteeing loans of that size is an entirely different story.
scone, re: home buying & 'nesting' Does that mean shoes are in a bubble too? I actually saw an article that interviewed a single mom the other day that complained about "no more fun shopping sprees" on credit cards. Those kinds of people blow my mind
"it is not appropriate to refer to them as Zombie banks - they have substantial franchise value both hear and abroad" (for example the domain name citi.com)
Expect cash v. credit price divergences. Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.24.09 - 12:33 pm | #
Saw that all over flyover in the farm crisis years - sometimes the 'cash discount' was significant too - store probably closing and owner walking with all the cash they could.
Am I the only one with the ability to not fight and personally attack anonymous people over the internet?
I used a Pavlovian trick years ago when blogging took off. When I felt like continuing a useless argument I'd pound my head against a wall until the mood left me. Worked like a charm. Except for the chronic headaches...
Can anyone confirm an anecdote of vacant commercial buildings in Phoenix having widespread problems where the copper wiring is being looted?
Also, how about the high-sulfur Chinese made drywall. I heard about the homebuilder liability aspect before the original story myself.
Might provide 1 way to reduce inventory. Require the drywall be removed, place levies on homes with it, seize and demolish those that cannot afford to comply. Everyone on board? Ok, go team!
Trebor-- thank you. Damn you are right-- what a deal, and for zero down.
And I'll be go to hell-- in Obama's new housing plan, I found in the "questions" part, that even owner-occupier landlords who live in 1 of up to 4-units can also qualify for the modification and cheapo re-financing.
So in theory, could somebody get the zero-down million dollars (and up!-- my NFCU site says $1,094,625.00)) multi-family loan, and then use the Obama plan to refi to 31% of your income??
I'm confused about the nationalization 'debate' in the news. The PTB keep reassuring us that nationalization is not an option. But once that word is in the air, the option feels like it's just around the corner. Why mention it so often if it ain't gonna happen?
I think the PTB are in disarray. Behind closed doors, the bald old men are fighting each other. The makeshift rudder we used to have on the Ship of State is gone.
Didn't the Byzantine Empire ban Jewish people from banking, public office and education? Is that why the Byzantine empire thrived for 1000 years? Or is history only according to the ADL?
"Americans are being presented/forced with a choice to alter their priorities.
Paradigm Lost"
"Sorry folks, park's closed. Moose out front should have told you so."
When the amusement park closes, you have to do other things. Going to work could be an option. Getting drunk could be an option. However, the priority of riding the rollercoaster one more time isn't an option those.
None of the big lenders will ever be shut down, EVER. Bernanke just confirmed that stress tests are NOT to shut any banks down but to determine how much taxpayer money to give away.
Collapse as in Former Soviet Union collapse. States secede, reform regional federations, leaving the USG either completely dissolved or a sham government presiding over it's own regional federation - the defunct northeast. USD loses reserve status and maybe even credibility as a hard currency. Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 12:40 pm | #
Ben, in his questioning just now, basically said that the U.S. will continue to buy preferred shares that convert to common equity when banks report losses, and we will do this indefinitely.
What always makes me shake my head in amazement is the consensus on reporting the indices: say whether it is up or down based on the open... never mind what happened yesterday or overnight... we have MAJOR movements happening in the after markets and the sunshine crowd only reports UP! yay!, or down darn. It's been years since I heard regular reports of the actually number of the indice being reported as part of a market segment report.
Feb. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Irish engineer David Kavanagh thought he'd have his pick of jobs when he graduated from college last year. Instead he's picking countries.
âThere's no jobs here; that's why I'm considering getting out," said the 23-year-old, who has yet to find work since he got his degree. âI would go anywhere. Australia has gone down, I hear. Canada's the new holy grail."
Wow, it's amazing what omission from the world's news can do for a country's reputation. It's mysterious, it's wonderful, it's exciting, and I haven't the foggiest idea about it
"We want to find out what their true positions are. If we were to find out they were not healthy that would be a different story. But the point of this is to find out how much they need. And provide the credit they need."
They are right, they are moving to transparency. LOL.
NYSE has responded to a comment I made yesterday about how long they could delay share delistings. Hullo there NYSE intern EvilHenryPaulson | 02.24.09 - 1:21 pm | #
Can y'all read this link. I hate trying to link to Bloomberg.
That's Ballgame, Goat Herders(Unrated) writes:
Nokia meltdown
#
Yeah, I'm not that impressed with the current leadership at Nokia. I was thinking about shorting them last Nov, but never pulled the trigger (sigh).
Reasons why I'm not shorting them now:
1) They have a fairly strong cash position (so as long as they cut costs aggressively they should be pretty ok, I don't think they've leveraged that much)
2) They are still the market leader
3) Nokia is strong in building cheap phones that work (I think they launched a 25 phone for emerging markets that actually makes profit), so even if they're getting their ass handed to them in the smartphone category they're strong in the big, reliable large scale market. And considering that the entire global economy is on an express elevator directly down, having a strong position in the large scale low end sounds better than being strong in selling 400+ smartphones
"bearly writes:
None of the big lenders will ever be shut down, EVER. Bernanke just confirmed that stress tests are NOT to shut any banks down but to determine how much taxpayer money to give away.
Well I thought we'd arrived at a tract in our history where we'd fought every endeavor we could fight Yes I shuddered with grim preconception as the cannonade erupted into light As my ocular gaze lay dehiscent it seemed that I could not look away And every god fearing son was a patriot and victory remained elusive just one bomb away
And they say that custom will reconcile people to any atrocity From Dachau to Belfast to Baghdad from sea to shining sea When fascism crosses our borders it'll be wrapped up in a shroud glowing red, white and blue And our rectors they say, will explain it away, as the ravings of a passionate few
NYSE has responded to a comment I made yesterday about how long they could delay share delistings. Hullo there NYSE intern EvilHenryPaulson | 02.24.09 - 1:21 pm | #
I don't think I've ever seen a single bloomberg link in these comments work.
Collapse as in Former Soviet Union collapse. States secede, reform regional federations, leaving the USG either completely dissolved or a sham government presiding over it's own regional federation - the defunct northeast. USD loses reserve status and maybe even credibility as a hard currency. Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 12:40 pm | #
Not yet - maybe NEXT credit cycle.
\t dryfly dryfly | 02.24.09 - 1:22 pm | #
Well according to CNN last night they're already talking about setting up a new government in California...
Hawley Smoot | \t \t \t \t02.24.09 - 1:21 pm | I was just a little surprised that it could still be a widespread problem (I heard one local anecdoate) despite the glut of inventory and decrease in prices. Thought maybe empty bottles or something became a better investment since the commodities heydey ended.
Dudettes, this hearing was an outrage. Fed basically said Treasury will buy shit bank shares until the end of time. This will be a massive transfer of wealth to share and bond holders and executives. We need massive demonstrations against this.
There's no jobs here; that's why I'm considering getting out," said the 23-year-old, who has yet to find work since he got his degree. â€ÅI would go anywhere. Australia has gone down, I hear. Canada's the new holy grail. EvilHenryPaulson | 02.24.09 - 1:25 pm | #
He should talk to some Canadians first. Ontario is a disaster area due to close economic ties w/ Detroit. Rest is slowing too [metals, timber, energy]. Not pretty.
"1.2% plus pennies per transaction in good times is a bargain. 2.5% and nickels per transaction in tough times is not sustainable. Expect cash v. credit price divergences"
Rob,
I think that might be a good thing... get people off of using CC for everything
Timothy Leary of Geithner writes:
What unusual necessities are some of you squirreling away like so many acorns?
Hammer, saw, shovel, etc. Get to the hardware store and load up!
Other items: Canvas backpacks, blankets, first aid kits, backup medication, a stack of good books, candles, lanterns, and every Godspeed You Black Emperor album. (Theme music for the meltdown.)
"...he'd always drag out that map and ask said hawk to show him where Iraq was on the map. He told me 90% of the people couldn't pin it down on the map.
"
I'd reckon that 90% couldn't find NJ either. Doesn't mean we still shouldn't bomb the sh!t out of it.
"1 currency almost [yogi] writes:
Michael, you're not worth the effort, so I'll probably just ignore you. At least dope Jas incessantly repeats some intelligent things.
1 currency almost [yogi] | Homepage | 02.24.09 - 1:28 pm |"
Didn't hear Rick S calling his boss [GE] a loser over that either - or did I miss it?
Good point!
I just watched Bernanke admit to CONgress that many TARP banks would have failed absent government intervention. I'm really having trouble squaring that admission with the tens of billions in bonuses and dividends that banks have paid out over the past 6 months.
"Did something just get announced?
Gavshire Hathaway"
I think the market is reacting to the rumor of widespread plague in squirrels. With the loss of such a critical protein source, the market is in panic.
U.S. holding together? Yes. Maybe, as some have said, under different rules. But if the country does fall in danger of falling apart, the objective observer will have plenty of warning.
Dissolution would most likely happen if certain states or regions felt that there was a serious, serious advantage to leaving the enterprise. Because the Feds had become dysfunctional or irrelevant in some way: still demanding resources, but offering nothing in return.
Like I said, you'd see this coming a long way off unless you were a blind man. Though there are plenty of those around.
Bob Dobbs writes:
U.S. holding together? Yes. Maybe, as some have said, under different rules. But if the country does fall in danger of falling apart, the objective observer will have plenty of warning.
Bob Dobbs | Homepage | 02.24.09 - 1:37 pm |
Without the re-confiscation, we have no capital and no chance.
There will be innovation and a rebuilding of the economy but this will take some time so Ill simply say the best days of being middle class American are gone.
This has NOT sunk in for most Americans who expect things will get back to normal again with economic bubbles in stocks and real estate.
ova, it's citizen friendly in that thieves are not treated lightly which is a very good thing for law abiding citizens. Idaho is also an open carry state. Want to guess on the crime rate?
Well according to CNN last night they're already talking about setting up a new government in California... ac | 02.24.09 - 1:29 pm | #
Maybe they can clone Rob't E Lee. [We been there done that]...
\t dryfly dryfly | 02.24.09 - 1:34 pm | #
One thing I wonder about is whether internal strife would be relatively more destructive now because of the sheer amount of integration and coupling in the economy today. During the Civil war, having a rail coming through your town was something special.
Now with all these ties created by modern businesses and communications infrastructure, would the economy as we know it disintegrate if an entire state just stopped cooperating, or does maybe it make us somehow more robust.
But who needs California anyhow. They just whine a lot and cause problems.
U.S. Will Take Bank ‘Ownership’ Stakes Only as Losses Climb U.S. to Get Bank Ownership Stakes Only as Losses Rise (Update3) - Bloomberg.com
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke said the U.S. government’s bank-capitalization plan is designed to shore up lenders’ common equity only if the economy worsens and creates more losses for financial institutions.
The Treasury will buy convertible preferred stock as needed in the 19 largest U.S. banks after stress tests to determine how much capital is needed to address losses in a “worse” case scenario, Bernanke told lawmakers at a Senate Banking Committee hearing today. The shares will be converted to common only as the extraordinary losses happen, he said.
“It doesn’t have an ownership implication until such time as those losses which are forecast in the bad scenario actually occur,” the Fed chief said. Bernanke also said that the so- called stress tests that regulators will run on the 19 banks will look at potential losses over a two-year horizon if the economy worsens.
Dissolution would most likely happen if certain states or regions felt that there was a serious, serious advantage to leaving the enterprise. Because the Feds had become dysfunctional or irrelevant in some way: still demanding resources, but offering nothing in return. Bob Dobbs | Homepage | 02.24.09 - 1:37 pm | #
No it is the opposite - it is when the Feds & other regions think an area cost too much to support & defend and doesn't want it anymore THAT is what pulled the USSR apart - when Moscovites said 'Why do I want Latvia? What does Turkmenistan do for me?' Only then were the 'Soviets' [Russians] willing to let it go.
When folks in NY & Ohio & Alabama say it isn't worth supporting 'Mexicans in Cali' or some similar situation in another region - THAT is when the union breaks up. Just because a region wants to secede doesn't mean they will be able to pull it off - not until the fed both CAN'T nor WON'T force them back in.
Watch for THAT conversation [we don't want no more Californians, or Texans or whatever]... that is when the union breaks up and not until.
.I am heartened by the direction of this country. If we can learn to get rid of some of the "dead wood" and not spend billions more trying to resuscitate the cold, stiff & terminal, we'll be fine. Black Star Ranch | 02.24.09 - 12:41 pm | #
Unfortunately, Bernanke just told the Senate that the game-plan is more of the same. CNBC covered most of it live. (My cable plan dcesn't carry CSPAN2).
Some of the Senators actually sounded intelligent.
Chief Executive Officer Edward Liddy, who took charge in September and unveiled the strategy the following month, has concluded it won’t work, said the people, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the insurer’s talks with the government are private. AIG is proposing additional ways to reduce the company’s debt to the U.S., including handing over stakes in some operations directly to the government, a person said.
.....we've been getting busloads of "ornamentals" (I think mostly Chinese) "touring" thru here looking for inexpensive properties for months now. They always pay cash and many have purchased. I think across the US we'll find many more of our neighbors will be from East Asia.
And they say you don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off an 'ole Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with TIMMAH !!!
No a 13 shot 45 ACP loaded with 230 GR Bonded Hollow Point bullets will do. I assure you they will be wheeled away! Go Gold Dot if ya can get em'. :>)!!!
Or maybe you think a pointy stick would work? LOL!
Now with all these ties created by modern businesses and communications infrastructure, would the economy as we know it disintegrate if an entire state just stopped cooperating, or does maybe it make us somehow more robust. ac | 02.24.09 - 1:42 pm | #
We'll have protectionism on a regional scale if the union breaks up - even trading in NAFTA is a hassle - believe me. It would be a bigger problem than most everyone realizes. We'll see it when the EU breaks up - which I expect it will.
Watch for THAT conversation [we don't want no more Californians, or Texans or whatever]... that is when the union breaks up and not until. dryfly | 02.24.09 - 1:45 pm | #
This is from the perspective that the Fed is more powerful than the states. If there's no oil coming in due to currency adjustments, some states (TX, e.g.) with plentiful regional oil would be calling the shots. Is the USG going to nuke TX to take it back?
Looks like there's just a rise across the board for the DJIA. Nobody's special.
Symbol Name Last Trade Change Volume AA ALCOA INC 6.025 1:22PM ET Up 0.215 (3.70%) 14,145,487 AXP AMER EXPRESS INC 12.56 1:22PM ET Up 0.41 (3.37%) 17,830,084 BA BOEING CO 34.90 1:22PM ET Up 0.44 (1.28%) 3,900,749 BAC BK OF AMERICA CP 4.30 1:22PM ET Up 0.39 (9.97%) 249,800,726 C CITIGROUP INC 2.39 1:22PM ET Up 0.25 (11.68%) 194,824,111 CAT CATERPILLAR INC 24.9495 1:22PM ET Down 0.1705 (0.68%) 11,638,279 CVX CHEVRON CORP 65.11 1:22PM ET Up 2.17 (3.45%) 8,757,567 DD DU PONT E I DE NEM 19.16 1:22PM ET Up 0.25 (1.32%) 5,571,411 DIS WALT DISNEY-DISNEY C 17.51 1:22PM ET Up 0.54 (3.18%) 8,096,718 GE GEN ELECTRIC CO 8.73 1:22PM ET Down 0.12 (1.36%) 125,678,189 GM GEN MOTORS 1.97 1:22PM ET Up 0.20 (11.30%) 5,891,359 HD HOME DEPOT INC 20.1978 1:22PM ET Up 1.4878 (7.95%) 21,230,457 HPQ HEWLETT PACKARD CO 28.96 1:22PM ET Down 0.32 (1.09%) 19,990,252 IBM INTL BUSINESS MACH 84.92 1:22PM ET Up 0.55 (0.65%) 5,917,136 INTC Intel Corporation 12.4718 1:22PM ET Up 0.3918 (3.24%) 37,794,045 JNJ JOHNSON AND JOHNS DC 54.10 1:22PM ET Up 0.45 (0.84%) 10,041,551 JPM JP MORGAN CHASE CO 20.05 1:22PM ET Up 0.54 (2.77%) 93,669,117 KFT KRAFT FOODS INC 23.17 1:22PM ET Up 0.21 (0.91%) 7,720,886 KO COCA COLA CO THE 42.56 1:22PM ET Up 0.47 (1.12%) 6,064,920 MCD MCDONALDS CP 54.45 1:22PM ET Up 0.58 (1.08%) 5,903,415 MMM 3M COMPANY 46.15 1:22PM ET Up 0.74 (1.63%) 3,521,164 MRK MERCK CO INC 28.0301 1:22PM ET Up 0.1501 (0.54%) 8,351,708 MSFT Microsoft Corporation 16.46 1:23PM ET Down 0.75 (4.36%) 70,588,331 PFE PFIZER INC 13.36 1:22PM ET Up 0.09 (0.68%) 36,494,725 PG PROCTER GAMBLE CO 49.29 1:22PM ET Up 0.39 (0.80%) 7,609,822 T AT&T INC. 22.91 1:22PM ET Up 0.23 (1.01%) 21,593,171 UTX UNITED TECH 42.31 1:22PM ET Down 0.04 (0.09%) 3,720,554 VZ VERIZON COMMUN 28.14 1:22PM ET Up 0.29 (1.04%) 9,569,009 WMT WAL MART STORES 49.65 1:22PM ET Up 0.77 (1.58%) 12,549,371 XOM EXXON MOBIL CP 7 0.85 1:22PM ET Up 1.55 (2.24%) 23,149,625
Black Star Ranch writes:
.....we've been getting busloads of "ornamentals" (I think mostly Chinese) "touring" thru here looking for inexpensive properties for months now. They always pay cash and many have purchased. I think across the US we'll find many more of our neighbors will be from East Asia.
I, for one, welcome foreign knife catchers from all nations. Our next great export: real estate losses.
Good to see all the green numbers in the financials. They were nervous for a week or so that they might not still be in charge. Bernanke reassured them admirably well.
When folks in NY & Ohio & Alabama say it isn't worth supporting 'Mexicans in Cali' or some similar situation in another region - THAT is when the union breaks up. Just because a region wants to secede doesn't mean they will be able to pull it off - not until the fed both CAN'T nor WON'T force them back in.
You would figure California would have to stop receiving 80 cents or so from the federal government for every $1 it pays in taxes for this to actually make sense, but that'd be pretty awesome if the south just decided against all evidence that they're in subsidizing California instead of the other way around and decided to let the state go. You would think someone would step in to question the wisdom of this, but that's probably a bad assumption with the way we're going.
This is from the perspective that the Fed is more powerful than the states. Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 1:50 pm | #
The federal gov't is INFINITELY more powerful. It can muster troops from all over the nation and CRUSH local opposition at will anywhere. Plus a small fraction of Americans are more loyal to their state than the nation - few would fight for Texas or cali - that all died over 100 year ago. It is only a handful of state rights nuts who are the exception.
But if the fed itself decides some parts of the union just aren't worth the hassle - then we'll see dissolution - not until.
So what does Texas have to do to survive as a Republic?
NASA is just south of Houston , Texas . We will control the space industry.
We refine over 85% of the gasoline in the United States .
Defense Industrywe have over 65% of it. The term Dont mess
with Texas , will take on a whole new meaning.
Oil - we can supply all the oil that the Republic of Texas will
need for the next 300 years. Yankee states? Sorry about that.
(We're big braggers too)
Natural Gas - again we have all we need and its too bad about
those Northern States. John Kerry will have to figure out a way to
keep them warm .
Computer Industry - we currently lead the nation in producing
computer chips and communicationssmall companies like Texas
Instruments, Dell Computer, EDS, Raytheon, National Semiconductor,
Motorola, Intel, AMD, Atmel, Applied Materials, Ball Miconductor,
Dallas Semiconductor, Delphi , Nortel, Alcatel, etc, etc. The list
goes on and on.
Medical Care - We have the largest research centers for cancer
research, the best burn centers and the top trauma units in the world,
as well as other large health centers. Dallas has some of the best
hospitals in the United States .
We have enough colleges to keep us going: University of Texas ,
Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Rice, SMU, University of Houston , Baylor, UNT
( University of North Texas ), Texas Womens University, etc. Ivy
grows better in the South anyway.
We have a ready supply of workers. We could just open the border
when we need some more.
We have essential control of the paper industry, plastics, insurance, etc.
In case of a foreign invasion, we have the Texas National Guard
and the Texas Air National Guard. We dont have an Army, but since
everybody down here has at least six rifles and a pile of ammo, we can
raise an Army in 24 hours if we need one. If the situation really
gets bad, we can always call the Department of Public Safety and ask
them to send over Chuck Norris and a couple of Texas Rangers.
We are totally self-sufficient in beef, poultry, hogs, and several
types of grain, fruit and vegetables, and lets not forget seafood
from the Gulf. Also, everybody down here knows how to cook them so
that they taste good. Dont need any food.
This just names a few of the items that will keep the Republic of
Texas in good shape. There isnt a thing out there that we need and
dont have.
You would figure California would have to stop receiving 80 cents or so from the federal government for every $1 it pays in taxes for this to actually make sense, but that'd be pretty awesome if the south just decided against all evidence that they're in subsidizing California instead of the other way around and decided to let the state go. You would think someone would step in to question the wisdom of this, but that's probably a bad assumption with the way we're going. sanity clause | 02.24.09 - 1:53 pm | #
Depends on the total flow of resources not just 'taxes' - I'm sure Latvia sent more Rubles to Moscow than Moscow sent Rubles to Latvia IN TAXES but Latvia still cost too much to occupy - that was when the USSR become 13 some independent nations.
"I, for one, welcome foreign knife catchers from all nations. Our next great export: real estate losses.
query_tool"
There are some subtleties here. If you are from a foreign country and its currency drops 50% vs the dollar, you could make a profit in your home currency.
Even better, if your home country implodes and you are able to move to the US and avoid the civil war and revenge killings, a house is a way to preserve some of your investment. While some tinfoil hatters talk about widespread unrest in the US, it's far more likely in many other nations.
The federal gov't is INFINITELY more powerful. It can muster troops from all over the nation and CRUSH local opposition at will anywhere. Plus a small fraction of Americans are more loyal to their state than the nation - few would fight for Texas or cali - that all died over 100 year ago. It is only a handful of state rights nuts who are the exception. dryfly | 02.24.09 - 1:54 pm | #
Katrina really made me wonder how much power the US has within our borders...
Don't Cry For Me, then you are OK with a horse and buggy, or you don't understand what is refined in Texas. In fact, if I were Texas, I would say **** off, and charge the US up the arse for refined crude. Where would you like the next refinery, the Monterey area or possibly Martha's Vineyard?
There are some subtleties here. If you are from a foreign country and its currency drops 50% vs the dollar, you could make a profit in your home currency.
Even better, if your home country implodes and you are able to move to the US and avoid the civil war and revenge killings, a house is a way to preserve some of your investment. While some tinfoil hatters talk about widespread unrest in the US, it's far more likely in many other nations.
some investor guy | 02.24.09 - 1:57 pm | #
Report: Biden's Son, Brother Marketed Hedge Fund Through Stanford Company
Vice President Joe Biden's brother and son ran a fund of hedge funds marketed by companies controlled by disgraced Texas billionaire R. Allen Stanford, according to a report published in the Wall Street Journal. [...]The $50 million fund was jointly branded between the Biden family's Paradigm Global Advisors LLC and a Stanford Financial Group entity and was called the Paradigm Stanford Capital Management Core Alternative Fund, according to the report published Monday in the Wall Street Journal.
"[When] corruption.. has prevailed in those offices [of]... government and [has] so familiarized itself as that men otherwise honest could look on it without horror,... [then we must] be alive to the suppression of this odious practice and... bring to punishment and brand with eternal disgrace every man guilty of it, whatever be his station." --Thomas Jefferson to W. C. C. Claiborne, 1804. (*)
SPECTRE of Deflation writes:
No a 13 shot 45 ACP loaded with 230 GR Bonded Hollow Point bullets will do. I assure you they will be wheeled away! Go Gold Dot if ya can get em'. :>)!!!
SPECTRE of Deflation 1:49 pm
--
im no expert but a 45 with 13 rounds in the mag...never seen one
please name a manufacturer...is this a double column mag??, would have to be very fat???
few would fight for Texas dryfly | 02.24.09 - 1:54 pm | #
I'm guessing you're not from Texas. I love your insight, it's the top, but this one rings hollow.
I think I have a much more apocalyptic scenario in my mind. It's a theoretical future US, not past or present. How many show up to fight for a federal government that is clearly tottering, and can only pay them in worthless scrip? How many leave home because they got a letter from an increasingly toothless Uncle Sam, when their family needs them at home, to fight for their own safety and provision?
The federal gov't is INFINITELY more powerful. It can muster troops from all over the nation and CRUSH local opposition at will anywhere.
One crazy dude sneaks up to a post office after dark and torches the place. Muster some troops from North Carolina and send them to Oklahoma or wherever to deal with the one guy? Not practicable. Multiply this one guy times 1000. Unmanageable.
The mistake of all big empires is in assuming that a modern military can deal with widespread small scale civil unrest in any kind of economic manner. If it could deal with a populace in revolt, we would have no need for the fictions of elections, a constitution, or a "representative" government.
I try to encourage Texans to seceede, and take OK and AK with them. Don't Cry for Me Tehachapi | 02.24.09 - 1:52 pm | # As long as we get to keep NASA, Jeff Bezos' space port in West Texas (actually I like the entirety of West Texas), Armadillo Aerospace, wind power, solar power, petrogiants, natural gas and oil resources, fertile farmland, excellent agricultural and engineering universities and Austin I'm cool. What... you want us back? Haha, no I'm not for splitting, it's counter-trend. I believe consolidation started with Ugg and Oot moving into the same cave so one could keep the fire going while the other found food.
1. NASA is just south of Houston , Texas . We will control the space industry.
Will you be using the Florida or California launch facilities? 2. We refine over 85% of the gasoline in the United States .
You didn't just make this up you actually must know it was a lie. TX has 4.7mbpd out of a US total refining capacity of 17.6mbpd. ... This just names a few of the items that will keep the Republic of Texas in good shape. There isn't a thing out there that we need and don't have. anon | 02.24.09 - 1:54 pm | #
Good snark but you need to be careful. There's those who will repeat your words as truth. BTW, everything you said actually applies to California.
Furst?
At least something is rising these days.
Funny, I was reading this the other day. This is news?
Looks like those repayment cushions in CRE loans have dried up.
That chart shows a U shaped recovery. I'm all in.
some investor guy, this data was just released minutes ago. I'd call that "news".
Perhaps you were reading my preview over the weekend? Of course we all knew the data would be ugly.
Best wishes.
"These are the loans that will probably lead to the closure of many regional banks."
And local banks, too. In my opinion, many of the recent bankers had no clue what they were doing. Their friends/clients were making money in CRE, so they followed the money like sheep. Too bad they followed them right to the slaughter house.
The FED is now tracking school kids playing hookie? Chrissakes! They can't even do what they're supposed to do and now they're playing mall cop?!?
Efers.
Nostrovia,
Richard Florida, author of the Atlantic Monthly's recent cover story How the Crash will reshape America
, is on CBC Radio One's The Current right now. It's coming across as a pretty big pump job for Canada. Specifically Toronto, where he immigrated to, and Vancouver/Cascadia corridor. Florida is a big believer in localized economic benefits that accrue to large, diverse, and open cities. It will be posted in a few hours as a podcast
My wife, who avoids news media on the grounds that it is fear-factory populace control, nonetheless asked me last night if the US was going to collapse. I said no, it held through the 30s and the 70s, it will hold now. But I'm wondering, is that the right answer?
I've seen plenty of talk about chickens and guns, and so on, but can't tell how much of it is tongue in cheek. But even so, many of the regulars here know the score. What's the CR expert consensus on USG survivability in the medium term?
I wonder what the critical CC deliquency rate is. If the merchants loose confidence in the CC companies...
The slopes unifying scare me.
This is a "to infinity and beyound" graph. It looks like we could hit 8% in all 3 categories within 2009.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
consensus on USG survivability in the medium term?
Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 12:29 pm
Medium term being the forseable future? My guess is a 100% survival rate. The gov isn't going away. It will be, just, oh...different.
Ben says the FDR calling a bank holiday was the most helpful thing he did.
And confidence at record low too
U.S. Economy: Consumer Confidence, Home Prices Slump (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
"Dust Bowling for Dollars writes:
My wife, who avoids news media on the grounds that it is fear-factory populace control, nonetheless asked me last night if the US was going to collapse. I said no, it held through the 30s and the 70s, it will hold now. But I'm wondering, is that the right answer?
I've seen plenty of talk about chickens and guns, and so on, but can't tell how much of it is tongue in cheek. But even so, many of the regulars here know the score. What's the CR expert consensus on USG survivability in the medium term?
Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 12:29 pm |"
Oh, I just know someone here is brewing an academic answer for this one.
Dust Bowling,
To determine if the U.S. will collapse you have to define collapse.
"What's the CR expert consensus on USG survivability in the medium term?
Dust Bowling for Dollars"
It will survive. Not sure how many second and third world countries will survive, though. All those time shares and land leases in Mexico by Americans will go back to the Mexican gov't.
I wonder what the critical CC deliquency rate is. If the merchants loose confidence in the CC companies...
NateTG | 02.24.09 - 12:29 pm | #
It's almost the opposite. CC companies pay merchants, bounced checks do not.
The problem will be when the CC companies are forced to send transaction charges high enough to cover losses. That's when the merchants start doing the math. 1.2% plus pennies per transaction in good times is a bargain. 2.5% and nickels per transaction in tough times is not sustainable. Expect cash v. credit price divergences.
Dust Bowling,
I don't think we'll collapse, but I think the U.S. that you recognize now will be gone forever in 4-6 years. And if it IS still around, it will be because we found one more bubble to ride to 2040. But I think we're out of bubbles. Way to many people are effed right now, with no prospects for decent-paying jobs they are trained for, house ownership, health care or anything resembling retirement. The fallout is going to be ugly.
Bank of America Stronger Than Rivals, Has Capital, Lewis Says
Bank of America Corp.’s business prospects and financial condition are “far superior to those of most of our competitors,” Chief Executive Officer Kenneth Lewis said in a memo to employees today.
The bank has enough capital and liquidity to handle much higher unemployment, based on internal stress tests, Lewis said in the memo. Bank spokesman Scott Silvestri confirmed the memo’s contents.
OT, but what the HELL?
I just checked Navy Federal Credit Union in my Norfolk, VA area-- and they are offering VA (Veteran's Admin) mortgages up to $1,094,625.00
Whaaat???-- those are zero-down loans!!
FHA limit here is $625,500
If anyone happens to like charts, CIBC has a Bankruptcy Report from Nov 9, 2007. Economically speaking that would be summer 2006 for America. What blew my mind that the % of mortgages in arrears was down to 0.25%.
If the rate is ever that low either banks were not being adventurous enough, or some big voodoo is going on. Given the high level of greed, the voodoo becomes obvious.
I listed a broker and one sample house price one thread below.
There are no terrible or dangerous neighborhoods on Merritt Island. There are some old or crappy looking ones.
Merritt Island is, at worst, on the outer circle of doom.
Hmmm, even with the price drops, I still couldn't afford my own house.
So I suppose further to go down.
"What country are you from?"
"The Peoples Republic of Central America."
"Oh, yes, the countries formerly known as Nicaragua, Belize, El Salvador, Guatemalea, Panama, and Costa Rica?"
"Yes. I believe that is right."
"and they are offering VA (Veteran's Admin) mortgages up to $1,094,625.00
Whaaat???-- those are zero-down loans!!
FHA limit here is $625,500"
Once more into the breach, SOLDIER!
Nostrovia,
Anonymous writes:
Ben says the FDR calling a bank holiday was the most helpful thing he did.
If they call a bank holiday now, I guarantee you that the first day after the holiday will be the bank run to end all bank runs.
How bout now? Is it time yet?
What do you reckon is the thinking behind amex giving $300 to people to cancel their accounts?
I think they are trying to get rid of deadbeats that pay off their bills every month.
Strangely enough, there's no money to be made catering to those who are responsible with their credit.
here's how ignorant we've become - the NYTimes writes today on the Bernanke chat :
"The former part of the mission has largely been met, with prices more or less unchanged from their level a year ago, and inflation is expected to glide under 1 percent during 2009."
Talking about the full employment and stable prices mandate, they pulled the doozy above. Rather convenient that at this particular point in time you can say that and yet it is much like a broken clock statement.
As we head from a massive inflation (that was carefully and fully denied) to a deflation (that is unthinkable but already under way) of course we are going to get to a midpoint where prices year over year seem stable.
Just idiotic. Why do they want so badly to give credit to a group that has completely whiffed over the past few years. The FED is just a bunch of screwups anymore.
Does anyone else think that by saying FDR's bank holiday was the most helpful thing he did BB risked igniting a run on the banks?
Looking closely at those graphs, it's not the values, but rather the steepness of the curves (acceleration) that gets my attention.
"Does anyone else think that by saying FDR's bank holiday was the most helpful thing he did BB risked igniting a run on the banks?
martyseattle"
No. Most people have no idea what a bank holiday is.
Gee, isn't 1-1 1/2% supposed to be pretty bad?
Does anyone else think that by saying FDR's bank holiday was the most helpful thing he did BB risked igniting a run on the banks?
\t martyseattle | 02.24.09 - 12:38 pm | #
Poor choice of words on his part. I suggest; "pre-festivus."
But misean-- has anybody hear heard or read anything about how in hell the VA loan limit got boosted to over a mil? when did THIS happen? JFC!
To determine if the U.S. will collapse you have to define collapse.
s0mebody | 02.24.09 - 12:32 pm | #
Collapse as in Former Soviet Union collapse. States secede, reform regional federations, leaving the USG either completely dissolved or a sham government presiding over it's own regional federation - the defunct northeast. USD loses reserve status and maybe even credibility as a hard currency.
How about extremely long weekend?
Most people have no idea what a bank holiday is.
Elvis
They're the days that bankers don't have to work but everyone else does. MLK day, President's day, Columbus day, etc.
"consensus on USG survivability in the medium term?"
.....I am heartened by the direction of this country. If we can learn to get rid of some of the "dead wood" and not spend billions more trying to resuscitate the cold, stiff & terminal, we'll be fine. Think of a more localized structure - less stores, less on the shelves, and more stuff ordered - not just picked up. Learn to do more and decide what is really "needed" vs. "wanted".
"What country are you from? The Peoples Republic of Central America. Oh, yes, the countries formerly known as Nicaragua, Belize, El Salvador, Guatemalea, Panama, and Costa Rica? Yes. I believe that is right."
These countries are unlikely to federate solely due to economic hardship and shared language. They've seen a lot of history (the kind we're about to) and still remained independent. The other comment about timeshares and US ex-pats may come to pass, though.
Nokia meltdown:
HELSINKI (AP) Nokia Corp., which announced this month it was planning cut jobs, said Tuesday it will seek up to 1,000 voluntary resignations to further reduce costs amid the global economic downturn.
The world's largest mobile phone maker said it will open a global voluntary resignation package on March 1, and plans to increase short-term unpaid leaves and sabbaticals.
It also appealed to employees to accept holiday time as payments, instead of cash, for overtime work in 2009.
Nokia described as "encouraging" the response from employees and unions in proposing ideas to help reduce personnel-related costs.
"We have considered these and are now announcing voluntary initiatives that could contribute to our efforts to adjust our cost base to the current market environment," said Hallstein Moerk, head of the company's human resources. "If successful, the voluntary initiatives will lessen the need for involuntary redundancies."
Nokia said it will accept applications for the resignation package until May 31, or when 1,000 employees have applied.
"But misean-- has anybody hear heard or read anything about how in hell the VA loan limit got boosted to over a mil? when did THIS happen? JFC!
zuzu's petals"
Those veterans have stable $35k a year penisons. They can afford those homes. Really.
Movie tip:
"Walker" with Ed Harris, circa 1987.
I wonder what the critical CC deliquency rate is. If the merchants loose confidence in the CC companies...
NateTG | 02.24.09 - 12:29 pm | #
hmmm, how about, cash, barter or robbery?
Anyone else short gold!
"has anybody hear heard or read anything about how in hell the VA loan limit got boosted to over a mil?"
Nope, not me. I was just being snarky.
That makes as much sense as Alt-A IO OpAms.
Nostrovia,
"These countries are unlikely to federate solely due to economic hardship and shared language. They've seen a lot of history (the kind we're about to) and still remained independent."
And housing prices don't fall YOY.
--
CR's favorite term has changed from Cliff Diving to Ugly. He is making progress.
Listened to propagandist Bernanke, a very able agent of the Financial Nazis, give an example of your neighbor's house burning because of cigarette and then the need to save the neighborhood by first putting the fire off. Rogue economists like Robert Reich (kid drowning on the beach), Krugman, etc., are all in propaganda business to keep American dopes doped-for-life and to serve Financial Nazis.
Jas
RadioShack Corp. reported a 39 percent decline in fourth quarter net income as sales declined.
Net income was $62 million, or 50 cents a share, in the period ended Dec. 31, compared with net income of $101 million, or 77 cents, a year ago.
Results missed the 70 cents a share forecast, according to Thomson Reuters survey of analysts.
Analysts wonder whats next for the Fort Worth-based consumer electronics chain as the wireless business and digital TV converter box sales slow. RadioShack has been testing a new concept store in three Dallas area locations called Point Mobl. The stores sell a broad array of mobile devices.
A special banking holiday (unlike the normal bank holidays you just listed) is a day for 'resetting' the system. Close all the banks for a few days, allow no withdrawals, and make up new numbers to let the game ocntinue.
I just wrote this at NC and wanted to share (here), because I think it's real and related:
A few ideas here: The falling markets have just hit me this morning and I now understand inside my brain, that the downward spiral is almost The Mechanism or process, by which a discount for future value is being discovered. Hence, as Japan re-sets to a stock market that has headed backwards in time by 27 years, and when you hear that the largest companies there are worth about 1/4 of what they were 18 years ago, you have to stop, sit down and think about this.
We are in the process of redefining the nature of future value and grasping as to what future cash flow is; we are as a global people re-establishing a standard for understanding value, by having an auction that finds a floor for value. The very nature of capitalism and the value of money is being reviewed by a new generation of people around the globe that do not trust the financial system.
The discount for future value is uncertain, because too many banks, holding companies, insurance companies, hedge funds, pension funds, Treasuries, GSEs and a long list of entities involved in collusion and corruption are all unwilling to disclose what assets they are holding -- and so they conspire to withhold information which is needed for investor discovery, for DD, for terms related to future value. This is the very process of distrust that kept banks from lending to each other. Now we have a condition where investors realize that it's not just the banks that are causing liquidity concerns -- it's the entire financial system that is in chaos and decoupled from truth, honesty and standardized accounting laws. The American government with it's decade of non-regulation has peaked out with it's TARP corruption and now they have exhausted all credibility and destroyed all confidence and trust in this government. TARP is the tsunami crescendo that snuffed the lights out of capitalism and democracy, because we allowed our leaders to engage in too many unregulated ponzi schemes. Congress and all the nepotism in our government turned a blind eye to the destruction of America, because they were all crooks on the take from lobby groups!
The systemic global crash is simply a process to discover what future value is and the current discount will continue to increase if good assets are not separated from bad corporations. The longer this game of discovery goes on, the less stocks and bonds will be worth, and the longer the governments continue to be in denial and essentially protect their friends, the longer this process will take! We need only look at Japan as a beacon of financial stupidity and look at the cost of denial and pride. Obama has to wake up to the fact that tossing money at this systemic global problem is not a solution, it just contributes to it!
My best bud Einstein, as you all know, screamed and yelled and spit out that you can't solve a problem on the same level at which it was created, i.e, derivatives got us into this mess, and they aint gonna friggn get us out -- the truth will set you free!
See: § 502(5)(E)(E) In estimating net present values, the discount rate shall be the average interest rate on marketable Treasury securities of similar maturity to the cash flows of the direct loan or loan guarantee for which the estimate is being made.
Also see deal with car maker a few years ago with Jimmy Carter, where TREASURY had an actual contract that a car company had to deal with in terms of future obligations:
Sec. 9. // 15 USC 1868. // (a) Loans guaranteed under this Act shall be payable in full not later than December 31, 1990, and the terms and conditions of such loans shall provide that they cannot be amended, or any provision waived, without the Board's consent.
lawyerLiz: No way my hub and I could afford to buy our house again. We bought home 37 years ago and was always gonna build our dream home but it got lost somewhere along the way, we are just fine and dandy where we are.
Our children ask us often if we know what we have got, damn right worked 30 years paying for it.
Yeah, he declared himself King or President of Nicaragua. Great scene with Cornelius Vanderbilt.
LOL, Elvis-- & yeah, to any outside observer, this million dollar loan idea sorta blows the "military is underpaid' thing all to hell.
Jas is like our correspondent in Pompei, that tells us how unreliable Vesuvius is, but sticks around anyway, and ends up getting consumed by fire just like everybody else.
Hey, asshole dope king:
Take your Nazi language elsewhere. When your sons have been gassed and their gold teeth taken, feel free to say whatever you want.
Timothy Leary of Geithner writes:
"What do you reckon is the thinking behind amex giving $300 to people to cancel their accounts? I think they are trying to get rid of deadbeats that pay off their bills every month."
The explanation I heard was that Amex is trying to push to the head of the line as people pay down their CC balances. IOW, get the money before the other CC issuers do.
If you were a retailer, would you order more junk from China?
zuzu's petals
It's probably officer housing. Enlisted usually get a loan for a double wide.
OT, gosh we are having so many bank robberies in NYC, 5 a day sometimes. this one is novel.
Thieves hid behind a fake chimney to cut a hole in the roof of a Brooklyn bank - then made off with the contents of 60 safe-deposit boxes."
The Ol' Fake Chimney-to-Rob-Bank Ploy - Gothamist
Dust,
I do think the USD loses reserve status sooner or later. States are already passing legislation affirming their 9th and 10th ammendment rights. Tainter (author of The Collapse of Complex Societies) uses a lower bar for collapse than you describe. In a very simple form, collapse is society reverting back to a more homogeneous society from a heterogeneous one. People revert from specializing back to each man taking more care of the basics. Standard of living declines, but not instances of "collapse" lead to a dissolution of the state.
Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 12:29 pm | #
Nothing lasts forever but people will keep on keeping on.
Platitudes is all I have in foretelling the fututre. All of us meet our fate regardless of intentions.
Great Quote from Sen. Shelby, quoting Grechen Morgenstern-- "before you do a strss test on anybody, you've gotta find a pulse".
am gonna go check out on this "million dollar VA loan limit" thingy-- jaysus underpants!
"RadioShack Corp. reported a 39 percent decline in fourth quarter net income as sales declined."
This must be bullish for Best Buy since they are taking market share away from Radio Shack!!!
edit
but not all instances of "collapse" lead to a dissolution of the state
How long before we have an index tracking repeat foreclosures?
I could see how another Case-Shiller type of resale index would focus on these specific properties.
This just in:
Tuesday is National Tortilla Chip day — free chips alert - Fast Food Maven : The Orange County Register
Today is National Tortilla Chip Day
In honor of those who were part of a late discussion on Peak Nacho a while back, I advise you to hold onto your wallets because here it comes.
Funny, I was reading this the other day. This is news?
\t some investor guy | \t \t \t \t02.24.09 - 12:26 pm | #
Tough crowd tonight.
"Thieves hid behind a fake chimney to cut a hole in the roof of a Brooklyn bank - then made off with the contents of 60 safe-deposit boxes."
The rumor is those safe-deposit boxes held the off shore account numbers and passwords of 60 investment bankers from Goldman Sachs. And the thieves were former Lehman partners.
Stress tests won't be pass/fail???
Tests.. People Pass them, people Fail them..
When Richard Shelby and Jim Bunning make any sense at all, that has to be a sign of the Apocalypse..
My wife, who avoids news media on the grounds that it is fear-factory populace control, nonetheless asked me last night if the US was going to collapse. I said no, it held through the 30s and the 70s, it will hold now. But I'm wondering, is that the right answer?
Have you ever met an American that didn't hold the US Constitution very close to their heart? Sure, nearly everyone thinks that whomever is in power is interpreting it incorrectly, but that just further proves that the ideals presented in its words are those that we still want to be governed by.
The US isn't going to collapse, but don't rule out a wholesale change in who is in charge.
[replies to comments from last thread]
Hubbert, no problem.
Regarding the thread yesterday; Maybe it was bravado or youthful hubris for why I called Taleb out, but when it comes to clear right and wrong over his last year's returns, then I would rather be in the right regardless of initial statement.
As for Cleveland and other cities experiencing a drop in earnings, that is one economic quandary that has no easy answer. It is the crux of where the government will succeed or fail.
49 sq-mi SBR
I think that story was the perfect example of a little talked about, but important price vector for real estate. Joint ownership/renting of a building. On the way up it allows for greater growth, and when things are headed down the group is only as strong as the weakest link. Applies to everything from commercial space and sub-leasing, to residential and sub-divided ownership of a building
"1 currency almost [yogi] writes:
Hey, asshole dope king:
Take your Nazi language elsewhere. When your sons have been gassed and their gold teeth taken, feel free to say whatever you want.
1 currency almost [yogi] | Homepage | 02.24.09 - 12:46 pm |"
The world according to the ADL, bullies.
doc h, nicely said. i tend to agree, but have no faith in rule of law anymore. look what happened to so much of FASB!
when you abdicate rule of law, you create unrest and uncertainty.
Bernanke...oversight....treason
"The US isn't going to collapse, but don't rule out a wholesale change in who is in charge."
Wholesale changes rarely happen without wholesale violence.
Congressman Marion Barry will save us!
So here's the retailer's dilemma:
You still have a fair amount of inventory from the disaster that was xmas 08', despite trying to sell it below your costs, and soon you have to decide whether to go forward against the 40 foot wave in the guise of retail sales falling, or just go out of business.
either/or
Micheal = Jas in fundie clothing?
They're the days that bankers don't have to work but everyone else does. MLK day, President's day, Columbus day, etc.
s0mebody | 02.24.09 - 12:41 pm | #
LOL!
When does Bernanke testimony end?
Have you ever met an American that didn't hold the US Constitution very close to their heart?
Zoom Zoom | 02.24.09 - 12:51 pm | #
LOL. I've met very few Americans outside of the Schoolhouse Rock generation that can even recite the Preamble!
I totally agree with your reasoning - I've been saying since the 80s that as long as you give Americans the iconography, the bread, and the circuses, they wouldn't know totalitarianism if it came up and bit em.
Bernanke....regulator...puke
Bernanke: Nationalization will just destroy franchise
Yes, Doc, future value will be completely redefined by changing the sign on the exponent.
Blows my fucking mind too.
I keep reading stories about middle-class people with clean records getting their first felony by clumsily trying to shoplift items in stores, and getting caught in the act.
We are swimming in a sea of moral hazard on all levels of society.
Nothing lasts forever but people will keep on keeping on.
Like a bird that flew.. tangled up in blue.
I think the FDIC actually got out in front of this one. Or at least knows whats going to happen. Perhaps they didnt stop it but they've said that they expect many many failures. Does that count as ahead of the curve?
..................
Bonus question: CR said it was the 'beginning of the end' when?
LOL. I've met very few Americans outside of the Schoolhouse Rock generation that can even recite the Preamble!
Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 12:53 pm | #
Au contraire mon ami. It is the Star Trek generation that knows those words best.
Arghhh! My gold! It is melting!!!
doc holiday:
I'll have to chew on that, but at first glance makes some sense.
Question though. When did you start writing that, last week?
I assume the Goldman trading desk is speculating in their own shares... I love those guys.
Paper gold melts... physical just sits there until you decide you see something you would rather have than it.
Doc: The longer this game of discovery goes on, the less stocks and bonds will be worth, and the longer the governments continue to be in denial and essentially protect their friends, the longer this process will take!
This was baked in the "historical" cake. The game will go on as those with a lot to lose cling to their money & power.
They do not care if they blow up the whole system.
Greed is myopic.
I assume the Goldman trading desk is speculating in their own shares... I love those guys.
It is kind of amazing...they must have shorted themselves last week.
first felony by clumsily trying to shoplift items in stores, and getting caught in the act.
When did shoplifting become a felony?
LOL. I've met very few Americans outside of the Schoolhouse Rock generation that can even recite the Preamble!
Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 12:53 pm | #
My favorite SR song was the one where they called Manifest Destiny "Elbow Room".
"'Scuse my elbows, Mr. Native American."
you've said on many occasion's you would stop instigating.
you promised to drop it
so, i'd rather listen to a racial bigit than a liar.
Now I am honestly scared..
When Lindsay Graham, Jim Bunning, and Bob Corker sound sane (OK, Bob may disagree with what one needs to be done, so he isn't included..), This has to be a sign of the apocalypse..
And we're up 87. This is Crazytown..
A nutty friend used to carry a fold-up map of the world in his pocket that had all of the countries borders outlined, but no names.
When the Iraq war was going hot and heavy a few years back, and he'd get into a heated discussion with a war hawk, he'd always drag out that map and ask said hawk to show him where Iraq was on the map.
He told me 90% of the people couldn't pin it down on the map.
Faced with such numbers, the federal government is funding a $5 million national media campaign, launching this month, that extols the virtues of marriage for 18- to 30-year-olds. The campaign includes ads on Facebook and MySpace, videos on YouTube, spots on radio talk shows, ads in magazines and public transit and a new Web site, TwoOfUs.org.
00000
A Berlin court ruled on Tuesday that a former cashier for the Kaiser's supermarket chain was rightfully fired after allegedly taking €1.30 in bottle deposits, but she maintains the termination was because of her union activities.
The Tiergarten-Süd district ruling upheld an August 2008 court decision that confirmed the employer's claim that Barbara E., who worked as a cashier for 30 years, had destroyed the company's trust in her.
CR, isn't a credibility rate more important at this point? Nobody, and I mean nobody believes this BS anymore. The FED Chair's testimony is circus, while bread will come in the form of food stamps...except for CA, but maybe it's just welfare checks.
An analogy to explain big numbers:
1 million seconds is 11 and 1/2 days
1 billion seconds is 32 years
1 trillion seconds is 32,000 years
bigit , of course , properly spelled , is bigot
When did shoplifting become a felony?
nova
It's a felony in Idaho, but then again everything's a felony in Idaho ...
serf Alan Greenspend & Bernanke's Beard,
Спасибо друзья
NEW YORK (Reuters) - American Express Co (NYSE:AXP - News), battered by mounting credit card losses, is offering $300 to a limited number of U.S. card holders who pay off their balances and close their accounts
Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found
AMEX presently marketing 12 and 15 month @0% w/99.00 max fee, every other day in mailbox.
Must be a Tarp thing...
Glod taken down right on schedule.. love those Commercials.
Can't go wrong looking at their shorts.
Au contraire mon ami. It is the Star Trek
generation that knows those words best.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.24.09 - 12:58 pm | #
If you're talking Star Trek in syndication, that's the same generation! I caught it every day after school. Ahhh, the Gamesters of Triskellion. That one rocked.
Linkie: The Preamble
Dust bowling:
Yeah, we'll survive.
Ain't gonna be pretty, but we'll make it.
And THAT'S why I'm gonna start buyin'!
/snark
"Private Idaho" is all about the B-52's getting busted for herb, in the baked potato.
Why so glum everyone, Thomson-Reuters just had a blowout quarter. That's some good news
It's a felony in Idaho, but then again everything's a felony in Idaho ...
Anonymous | 02.24.09 - 1:03 pm
Jeepers, thats not citizen friendly.
The million dollar VA loan limit is the same as the new FHA loan limit for 4 unit owner occupied multifamily housing. The borrower has to live in one unit and rent out the other three. The income of the other three can go towards qualifying for a loan of up to $1,079,000. Retired generals could pad their golden years with a little investment like that.
OMG-- it looks like, "Yes, Virginia, you CAN get a million dollar Veteran's loan!"-- and not just in the state of Virginia, but looks like lotsa states.
This link has state & county tables where you can do this.
VA Jumbo Loan: VA Home Loans up to $1,000,000
I am in bloody OZ!!!
Fed's Fisher: Regulatory system will be simplified
OMG roflmao
there were'nt any regs! How do you think we got to where we are?
americans really need to start being honest about themselves about the fact that we already have a close-to-2-trillion annual welfare state when financing costs are included. h&hs plus the payroll and pension costs in other federal services...add all correctional costs, and we could be north of that.
how many americans get steady food, shelter and health care out of that ten grand a year we already spend?
ova | Homepage | 02.24.09 - 1:00 pm | #
Theft I in Oregon is a felony.
Stealing something over $750 or receiving stolen goods worth more than $200.
Florida is a big believer in localized economic benefits that accrue to large, diverse, and open cities.
Richard Florida believes the world can run on overpriced college degrees and Starbucks. We're seeing how well that worked out for Portland.
I wish US markets took off for lunch like NIK.
Ben: No risk of Hyper Inflation.
Translation: Buy more Gold and Silver, your going to need it.
Remember this is the same clan that took 2 years to call a recession....Hear what they say then do the opposite.
Did some government official state in the last few days that 12 % unemployment and another 20% drop in house prices were a "worst case scenario" and "highly unlikely"? Can someone point me to the article?
Listen, dope, I never promised anything of the sort. I am not instigating, I am responding to the incessant use of "Nazi" by Jas Jain in a thinly veiled reference to Jews in New York City.
Jas better hope they aren't really Nazis, who would enjoy the medical experiments on his grand-children, presumably with dark skin, like some in my family.
Paradigm Lost,
Re: "Greed is myopic"
This is a progressive myopia which is probably like advanced diabetes, but I like to see TARP in terms of being a retinal detatchment! They are blind!
"These banks will never be undercapitalized because you keep pouring money into them."
OMG Honesty! Some one shoot this senator now! Security, Security, Security!!!!
Dodd Asshole: We need to be careful about what we say here because, man, you are talking about reality and that could fuck up everything we're trying to do here for these banks.
My son is a vet. It is conceivable that someday he may have a high income. He went to college after service and is now getting a master's degree.
True, the high income some day thing is getting less and less likely. But being a vet doesn't necessarily mean you stayed in for 20 years. Now, whether the va ought to be guaranteeing loans of that size is an entirely different story.
scone, re: home buying & 'nesting'
Does that mean shoes are in a bubble too? I actually saw an article that interviewed a single mom the other day that complained about "no more fun shopping sprees" on credit cards. Those kinds of people blow my mind
Weren't the Indians & Nazis kind of chummy during WW2, to some extent?
(whoop! whoop! Godwin alert!)
"I am in bloody OZ!!!
zuzu's petals "
How are the hookers, bandos, and thugs? I can't believe Glenda the Good has to turn tricks these days. So tragic.
I would'nt expect a liar to fess up to agreeing to 'drop it'
but if I must, i'll search.
your an instigator.
skf deflating
Well, the term Aryan is straight out of India, since you ask.
"it is not appropriate to refer to them as Zombie banks - they have substantial franchise value both hear and abroad" (for example the domain name citi.com)
They stumble that run fast
Bill Shakespeare
This translation didn't work, but what does these days?
Они спотыкаются, которые выполняются быстро
Билл Шекспир
Expect cash v. credit price divergences.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 02.24.09 - 12:33 pm | #
Saw that all over flyover in the farm crisis years - sometimes the 'cash discount' was significant too - store probably closing and owner walking with all the cash they could.
I'll save you the trouble. I said "I'll drop it when it has been dropped". Look it up. It has not been dropped.
It's "you're", dope.
ice bat sign with wings after the 10am pump job
LOL!
"I don't think zombies is an appropriate description"
LOL
"we're going to be very tough on them."
comedy. there's not a single person who believe.
will someone stuff an apple in Dodds mouth?
Am I the only one with the ability to not fight and personally attack anonymous people over the internet?
I used a Pavlovian trick years ago when blogging took off. When I felt like continuing a useless argument I'd pound my head against a wall until the mood left me. Worked like a charm. Except for the chronic headaches...
Jas is a closeted IndiaNazi.
A liar on spell patrol. seriously. drop it.
Can anyone confirm an anecdote of vacant commercial buildings in Phoenix having widespread problems where the copper wiring is being looted?
Also, how about the high-sulfur Chinese made drywall. I heard about the homebuilder liability aspect before the original story myself.
Might provide 1 way to reduce inventory. Require the drywall be removed, place levies on homes with it, seize and demolish those that cannot afford to comply. Everyone on board? Ok, go team!
Trebor-- thank you. Damn you are right-- what a deal, and for zero down.
And I'll be go to hell-- in Obama's new housing plan, I found in the "questions" part, that even owner-occupier landlords who live in 1 of up to 4-units can also qualify for the modification and cheapo re-financing.
So in theory, could somebody get the zero-down million dollars (and up!-- my NFCU site says $1,094,625.00)) multi-family loan, and then use the Obama plan to refi to 31% of your income??
Unbeeeeellleeeevable!! Ok, now I am buying a gun.
â« â« â« Everything is coming up roses for the market. â« â« â«
Bank of America Stronger Than Rivals, CEO Lewis Says
first the CFO , now lewis on the soap box.
Man, how do these guys sleep at night.
Doc: You use the word "value", but what does that mean?
Is it monetary only?
Because of this crisis, Americans will most likely redefine what they consider "valuable."
The definition is not immutable.
Americans are being presented/forced with a choice to alter their priorities.
I've changed my opinion of Chris Dodd.
He's actually dumber than I had previously thought.
I'm confused about the nationalization 'debate' in the news. The PTB keep reassuring us that nationalization is not an option. But once that word is in the air, the option feels like it's just around the corner. Why mention it so often if it ain't gonna happen?
I think the PTB are in disarray. Behind closed doors, the bald old men are fighting each other. The makeshift rudder we used to have on the Ship of State is gone.
did Ben just refer to "Senator Porker"
Didn't the Byzantine Empire ban Jewish people from banking, public office and education? Is that why the Byzantine empire thrived for 1000 years? Or is history only according to the ADL?
Bernanke's comments about protecting bank franchise values with taxpayer money such that they restore profitability is an outrage.
NYSE has responded to a comment I made yesterday about how long they could delay share delistings. Hullo there NYSE inter
"Americans are being presented/forced with a choice to alter their priorities.
Paradigm Lost"
"Sorry folks, park's closed. Moose out front should have told you so."
When the amusement park closes, you have to do other things. Going to work could be an option. Getting drunk could be an option. However, the priority of riding the rollercoaster one more time isn't an option those.
Seriously, Jas strokes himself harder and hardly, as he's only capable of mental masturbation, sadly.
EvilHenryPaulson:
Try this link.
http://www.phoenixrealestateguy.com/copper-thieves-wrecking-havoc/404
"Man, how do these guys sleep at night."
Under a tarp
/ducks
A year into this mess and Bernanke claims that we still don't know the condition of the banks.
WTF! By and large our financial system is broke. Even AAA rated GE had to raise money recently via bonds guaranteed by the FDIC.
FFF is the new AAA.
None of the big lenders will ever be shut down, EVER. Bernanke just confirmed that stress tests are NOT to shut any banks down but to determine how much taxpayer money to give away.
Hopeless. We're all AIG now.
Collapse as in Former Soviet Union collapse. States secede, reform regional federations, leaving the USG either completely dissolved or a sham government presiding over it's own regional federation - the defunct northeast. USD loses reserve status and maybe even credibility as a hard currency.
Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 12:40 pm | #
Not yet - maybe NEXT credit cycle.
Hawley,
Ben, in his questioning just now, basically said that the U.S. will continue to buy preferred shares that convert to common equity when banks report losses, and we will do this indefinitely.
We are effed.
Liz, I found a house several doors down from my parents (central FL), $35k. My parents paid about $200k in 2002.
"Not yet - maybe NEXT credit cycle.
dryfly"
Right because everybody is still coupled. China might not be next time, though.
What always makes me shake my head in amazement is the consensus on reporting the indices: say whether it is up or down based on the open... never mind what happened yesterday or overnight... we have MAJOR movements happening in the after markets and the sunshine crowd only reports UP! yay!, or down darn. It's been years since I heard regular reports of the actually number of the indice being reported as part of a market segment report.
What unusual necessities are some of you squirreling away like so many acorns?
I don't want to hear about cans of food, water, blah, blah, blah.
Do tell.
Feb. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Irish engineer David Kavanagh thought he'd have his pick of jobs when he graduated from college last year. Instead he's picking countries.
âThere's no jobs here; that's why I'm considering getting out," said the 23-year-old, who has yet to find work since he got his degree. âI would go anywhere. Australia has gone down, I hear. Canada's the new holy grail."
Wow, it's amazing what omission from the world's news can do for a country's reputation. It's mysterious, it's wonderful, it's exciting, and I haven't the foggiest idea about it
"We want to find out what their true positions are. If we were to find out they were not healthy that would be a different story. But the point of this is to find out how much they need. And provide the credit they need."
They are right, they are moving to transparency. LOL.
oy...
DODD SHUT THE FUCK UP!
"Liz, I found a house several doors down from my parents (central FL), $35k. My parents paid about $200k in 2002.
some investor guy"
How long does it take an abandoned house in Florida to rot beyond repair?
actual* number
The PTB keep reassuring us that nationalization is not an option
Good non stop raids on the US treasury.
come to papa
NYSE has responded
to a comment I made yesterday about how long they could delay share delistings. Hullo there NYSE intern
EvilHenryPaulson | 02.24.09 - 1:21 pm | #
Can y'all read this link. I hate trying to link to Bloomberg.
That's Ballgame, Goat Herders(Unrated) writes:
Nokia meltdown
#
Yeah, I'm not that impressed with the current leadership at Nokia. I was thinking about shorting them last Nov, but never pulled the trigger (sigh).
Reasons why I'm not shorting them now:
1) They have a fairly strong cash position (so as long as they cut costs aggressively they should be pretty ok, I don't think they've leveraged that much)
2) They are still the market leader
3) Nokia is strong in building cheap phones that work (I think they launched a 25 phone for emerging markets that actually makes profit), so even if they're getting their ass handed to them in the smartphone category they're strong in the big, reliable large scale market. And considering that the entire global economy is on an express elevator directly down, having a strong position in the large scale low end sounds better than being strong in selling 400+ smartphones
"bearly writes:
None of the big lenders will ever be shut down, EVER. Bernanke just confirmed that stress tests are NOT to shut any banks down but to determine how much taxpayer money to give away.
Hopeless. We're all AIG now.
bearly | 02.24.09 - 1:22 pm |"
Bond market confidence confirmed. There is none.
You said you'd prove it, I'm waiting. Your obnoxious command to "drop it" only increases the likelihood that I won't.
Well I thought we'd arrived at a tract in our history where we'd fought every endeavor we could fight
Yes I shuddered with grim preconception as the cannonade erupted into light
As my ocular gaze lay dehiscent it seemed that I could not look away
And every god fearing son was a patriot and victory remained elusive just one bomb away
And they say that custom will reconcile people to any atrocity
From Dachau to Belfast to Baghdad from sea to shining sea
When fascism crosses our borders it'll be wrapped up in a shroud glowing red, white and blue
And our rectors they say, will explain it away, as the ravings of a passionate few
"Timothy Leary of Geithner writes:
What unusual necessities are some of you squirreling away like so many acorns?"
KY Jelly.
NYSE has responded to a comment I made yesterday about how long they could delay share delistings. Hullo there NYSE intern
EvilHenryPaulson | 02.24.09 - 1:21 pm | #
I don't think I've ever seen a single bloomberg link in these comments work.
Michael, you're not worth the effort, so I'll probably just ignore you. At least dope Jas incessantly repeats some intelligent things.
Dehiscent, wow, had to look that up. That's yet another reason I like this place.
Even AAA rated GE had to raise money recently via bonds guaranteed by the FDIC.
Angry Saver | 02.24.09 - 1:21 pm | #
Didn't hear Rick S calling his boss [GE] a loser over that either - or did I miss it?
Collapse as in Former Soviet Union collapse. States secede, reform regional federations, leaving the USG either completely dissolved or a sham government presiding over it's own regional federation - the defunct northeast. USD loses reserve status and maybe even credibility as a hard currency.
Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 12:40 pm | #
Not yet - maybe NEXT credit cycle.
\t dryfly
dryfly | 02.24.09 - 1:22 pm | #
Well according to CNN last night they're already talking about setting up a new government in California...
I don't think I've ever seen a single bloomberg link in these comments work.
ac | 02.24.09 - 1:27 pm | #
Someone here knows how to do it; they did it for me. However, "I" can't do, and as you believe, most others can't do it either.
I heard KY Jelly was slang for bourbon.
Do not worry... the taxpayer will make the banks whole again !!
Hawley Smoot | \t \t \t \t02.24.09 - 1:21 pm |
I was just a little surprised that it could still be a widespread problem (I heard one local anecdoate) despite the glut of inventory and decrease in prices. Thought maybe empty bottles or something became a better investment since the commodities heydey ended.
pump it up
Dudettes, this hearing was an outrage. Fed basically said Treasury will buy shit bank shares until the end of time. This will be a massive transfer of wealth to share and bond holders and executives. We need massive demonstrations against this.
"I heard KY Jelly was slang for bourbon.
Timothy Leary of Geithner"
No, but bourbon lubricates the mind. KY lubricates the body.
There's no jobs here; that's why I'm considering getting out," said the 23-year-old, who has yet to find work since he got his degree. â€ÅI would go anywhere. Australia has gone down, I hear. Canada's the new holy grail.
EvilHenryPaulson | 02.24.09 - 1:25 pm | #
He should talk to some Canadians first. Ontario is a disaster area due to close economic ties w/ Detroit. Rest is slowing too [metals, timber, energy]. Not pretty.
"1.2% plus pennies per transaction in good times is a bargain. 2.5% and nickels per transaction in tough times is not sustainable. Expect cash v. credit price divergences"
Rob,
I think that might be a good thing... get people off of using CC for everything
Timmay says bottom!
It's a SPACE JAM!
Timothy Leary of Geithner writes:
What unusual necessities are some of you squirreling away like so many acorns?
Hammer, saw, shovel, etc. Get to the hardware store and load up!
Other items: Canvas backpacks, blankets, first aid kits, backup medication, a stack of good books, candles, lanterns, and every Godspeed You Black Emperor album. (Theme music for the meltdown.)
"...he'd always drag out that map and ask said hawk to show him where Iraq was on the map. He told me 90% of the people couldn't pin it down on the map.
"
I'd reckon that 90% couldn't find NJ either. Doesn't mean we still shouldn't bomb the sh!t out of it.
"1 currency almost [yogi] writes:
Michael, you're not worth the effort, so I'll probably just ignore you. At least dope Jas incessantly repeats some intelligent things.
1 currency almost [yogi] | Homepage | 02.24.09 - 1:28 pm |"
You can't handle the truth. Your loss.
Are you seriously suggesting that the Irish have no knowledge of Canada? Really?
Anonymous | 02.24.09 - 1:26 pm | #
No one knows anything REAL about Canada except maybe some Canadians.
How about somebody cuing up something by The Stranglers?
Their version of Walk On By is most excellent.
Well according to CNN last night they're already talking about setting up a new government in California...
ac | 02.24.09 - 1:29 pm | #
Maybe they can clone Rob't E Lee. [We been there done that]...
Can y'all read this link. I hate trying to link to Bloomberg.
xxxxx | 02.24.09 - 1:25 pm | #
First time I have noticed that when I posted myself. Might be a CR Companion/Haloscan thing. Try this
"Hammer, saw, shovel, etc. Get to the hardware store and load up!"
Go to the pawn shop or garage sale for that stuff. Talk about oversupply. I don't think you could get $.05 for a tool kit anymore.
DOWN GOES FOREMAN!!!
Did something just get announced?
my search skills are poor in most all circumastances.
great. Merkins move to Canada and Messicans move to Merka.
Hawley Smoot: If "nationalization" were not being considered, you would not hear the word brought up.
The same can be said of "bank holiday."
The hearings, the media leaks, et al, are preparing people for the "possible."
Didn't hear Rick S calling his boss [GE] a loser over that either - or did I miss it?
Good point!
I just watched Bernanke admit to CONgress that many TARP banks would have failed absent government intervention. I'm really having trouble squaring that admission with the tens of billions in bonuses and dividends that banks have paid out over the past 6 months.
That goes for the CBOE, CNBC & GE too.
What just happened? FAZ went off the cliff.
yes, i announced that i'd like a rally so i can move a few grand more from equities to cash with a happy face
"Did something just get announced?
Gavshire Hathaway"
I think the market is reacting to the rumor of widespread plague in squirrels. With the loss of such a critical protein source, the market is in panic.
"Timothy Leary of Geithner writes:
What unusual necessities are some of you squirreling away like so many acorns?"
KY Jelly.
Elvis | 02.24.09 - 1:27 pm | #
Do you prefer Welch's or Grandma Smuckers?
great. Merkins move to Canada and Messicans move to Merka.
debtinator | 02.24.09 - 1:35 pm | #
Great tacos from Hudson's Bay to Yucatan - yeeee haw!
Merkins move to Canada...
debtinator | 02.24.09 - 1:35 pm
I thought the Merkin moved to Bernanke's chin.
U.S. holding together? Yes. Maybe, as some have said, under different rules. But if the country does fall in danger of falling apart, the objective observer will have plenty of warning.
Dissolution would most likely happen if certain states or regions felt that there was a serious, serious advantage to leaving the enterprise. Because the Feds had become dysfunctional or irrelevant in some way: still demanding resources, but offering nothing in return.
Like I said, you'd see this coming a long way off unless you were a blind man. Though there are plenty of those around.
I'll take "...Leon Trotsky...He got an ice pick..."
seriously, that 30% long in the ira is too painful...
this sucker's going down... like to spx 350, but it's a long slow train, like the nikkei
Well, I'm the proud owner of a whole bunch more GS puts.
Here
is the NYSE avoiding delisting link
It works when I type it in manually, but I think CR companion cuts the link off too early before all the &s
what was said that moved the market..
Bob Dobbs writes:
U.S. holding together? Yes. Maybe, as some have said, under different rules. But if the country does fall in danger of falling apart, the objective observer will have plenty of warning.
Bob Dobbs | Homepage | 02.24.09 - 1:37 pm |
Nice post by CNBC Sucks over at Big Picture
Nothing found for Blog 2009 02 50-dow-retracement-1982-2009 #comment-148169
There will be innovation and a rebuilding of the economy but this will take some time so Ill simply say the best days of being middle class American are gone.
This has NOT sunk in for most Americans who expect things will get back to normal again with economic bubbles in stocks and real estate.
Not being a pessimist .just a realist.
First time I have noticed that when I posted myself. Might be a CR Companion/Haloscan thing. Try this
EvilHenryPaulson | 02.24.09 - 1:34 pm | #
Try what?
Ron Gavshire Jeremy:
Way to go dude!
Anonymous, dryfly
I think Canadians don't know about Canada. A virtue in many ways, but not entirely
"We need massive demonstrations against this."
OK but not on Mon, Tues, Wed, Thurs, or Fri night.
Was a bailout neccessary? Are market manipulations necessary?
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt (1759-1806)
-thanks Jesse.
Could someone repost the link for the stimulus money by city and town/state
thank you
ova, it's citizen friendly in that thieves are not treated lightly which is a very good thing for law abiding citizens. Idaho is also an open carry state. Want to guess on the crime rate?
Well according to CNN last night they're already talking about setting up a new government in California...
ac | 02.24.09 - 1:29 pm | #
Maybe they can clone Rob't E Lee. [We been there done that]...
\t dryfly
dryfly | 02.24.09 - 1:34 pm | #
One thing I wonder about is whether internal strife would be relatively more destructive now because of the sheer amount of integration and coupling in the economy today. During the Civil war, having a rail coming through your town was something special.
Now with all these ties created by modern businesses and communications infrastructure, would the economy as we know it disintegrate if an entire state just stopped cooperating, or does maybe it make us somehow more robust.
But who needs California anyhow. They just whine a lot and cause problems.
we all know what's coming next... rally sell-off.
/cr/tard writes: We need massive demonstrations against this.
Tug on Superman's cape while you are at it.
wait a minute.
If there giving away free food stamps, then I want my share.
I'm entitled to enough to eat filet's on monday, salmon tuseday's , lamb wednesday's, chicken thursdays, and squirrel meat fridays.
No Nationalization?
U.S. Will Take Bank ‘Ownership’ Stakes Only as Losses Climb
U.S. to Get Bank Ownership Stakes Only as Losses Rise (Update3) - Bloomberg.com
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke said the U.S. government’s bank-capitalization plan is designed to shore up lenders’ common equity only if the economy worsens and creates more losses for financial institutions.
The Treasury will buy convertible preferred stock as needed in the 19 largest U.S. banks after stress tests to determine how much capital is needed to address losses in a “worse” case scenario, Bernanke told lawmakers at a Senate Banking Committee hearing today. The shares will be converted to common only as the extraordinary losses happen, he said.
“It doesn’t have an ownership implication until such time as those losses which are forecast in the bad scenario actually occur,” the Fed chief said. Bernanke also said that the so- called stress tests that regulators will run on the 19 banks will look at potential losses over a two-year horizon if the economy worsens.
They need machine guns in Idaho to hunt wild potatoes.
Cue up 'Dead Loss Angeles' on youtube to hear historical apocalyptic rock n roll by the Stranglers from 30 years ago.
Time series of nonagency mortgage delinquency rates, separated by prime, subprime, alt a.
Prime is at 12.87% DQ, overall rate 24.13%.
Since Bloomberg links are problematic, it's the first listing under "non agency delinquency rate bloomberg" in a google search.
Dissolution would most likely happen if certain states or regions felt that there was a serious, serious advantage to leaving the enterprise. Because the Feds had become dysfunctional or irrelevant in some way: still demanding resources, but offering nothing in return.
Bob Dobbs | Homepage | 02.24.09 - 1:37 pm | #
No it is the opposite - it is when the Feds & other regions think an area cost too much to support & defend and doesn't want it anymore THAT is what pulled the USSR apart - when Moscovites said 'Why do I want Latvia? What does Turkmenistan do for me?' Only then were the 'Soviets' [Russians] willing to let it go.
When folks in NY & Ohio & Alabama say it isn't worth supporting 'Mexicans in Cali' or some similar situation in another region - THAT is when the union breaks up. Just because a region wants to secede doesn't mean they will be able to pull it off - not until the fed both CAN'T nor WON'T force them back in.
Watch for THAT conversation [we don't want no more Californians, or Texans or whatever]... that is when the union breaks up and not until.
Michael, Michael, Michael.
Your anti-Semite petticoat is showing...Shame on you.
Goldman slams REITS via Zero Hedge
Zero Hedge: Goldman Slams Commercial REITs
When did the term impaired gains go out of style ?
First they right size the comics in the newspaper, and now this ?
What will there be left for me to enjoy
We need a new post for the link Ministry of Truth posted.
.I am heartened by the direction of this country. If we can learn to get rid of some of the "dead wood" and not spend billions more trying to resuscitate the cold, stiff & terminal, we'll be fine.
Black Star Ranch | 02.24.09 - 12:41 pm | #
Unfortunately, Bernanke just told the Senate that the game-plan is more of the same. CNBC covered most of it live. (My cable plan dcesn't carry CSPAN2).
Some of the Senators actually sounded intelligent.
I guess AIG did not like the price they were being offered.
AIG’s Liddy Said to Shift Strategy After Asset-Sale Plan Fails
AIG Scales Back Plan to Sell Assets as Markets Drop (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
Chief Executive Officer Edward Liddy, who took charge in September and unveiled the strategy the following month, has concluded it won’t work, said the people, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the insurer’s talks with the government are private. AIG is proposing additional ways to reduce the company’s debt to the U.S., including handing over stakes in some operations directly to the government, a person said.
.....we've been getting busloads of "ornamentals" (I think mostly Chinese) "touring" thru here looking for inexpensive properties for months now. They always pay cash and many have purchased. I think across the US we'll find many more of our neighbors will be from East Asia.
Video - Business, finance, and personal finance news from CNNMoney.com
And they say you don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off an 'ole Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with TIMMAH !!!
YouTube - You Don't Mess Around With Jim
"Paradigm Lost writes:
Michael, Michael, Michael.
Your anti-Semite petticoat is showing...Shame on you.
Paradigm Lost | 02.24.09 - 1:45 pm |"
The only thing I'm saying is, why are we prohibited from discussing the subject. Memories are short and should be refreshed from time to time.
No a 13 shot 45 ACP loaded with 230 GR Bonded Hollow Point bullets will do. I assure you they will be wheeled away! Go Gold Dot if ya can get em'. :>)!!!
Or maybe you think a pointy stick would work? LOL!
Now with all these ties created by modern businesses and communications infrastructure, would the economy as we know it disintegrate if an entire state just stopped cooperating, or does maybe it make us somehow more robust.
ac | 02.24.09 - 1:42 pm | #
We'll have protectionism on a regional scale if the union breaks up - even trading in NAFTA is a hassle - believe me. It would be a bigger problem than most everyone realizes. We'll see it when the EU breaks up - which I expect it will.
I read that Amex is offering some customers $300 to payoff and close their accounts.
Watch for THAT conversation [we don't want no more Californians, or Texans or whatever]... that is when the union breaks up and not until.
dryfly | 02.24.09 - 1:45 pm | #
This is from the perspective that the Fed is more powerful than the states. If there's no oil coming in due to currency adjustments, some states (TX, e.g.) with plentiful regional oil would be calling the shots. Is the USG going to nuke TX to take it back?
Ben will lose his pension If franchise is destroyed.
Tug on Superman's cape while you are at it.
Popeye | 02.24.09 - 1:43 pm | #
LOL. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Comrade Rally Monkey writes:
spus up 7.11
stand clear
Comrade Rally Monkey | 02.24.09 - 10:36 am |
we was warned
Looks like there's just a rise across the board for the DJIA. Nobody's special.
Symbol Name Last Trade Change Volume
AA ALCOA INC 6.025 1:22PM ET Up 0.215 (3.70%) 14,145,487
AXP AMER EXPRESS INC 12.56 1:22PM ET Up 0.41 (3.37%) 17,830,084
BA BOEING CO 34.90 1:22PM ET Up 0.44 (1.28%) 3,900,749
BAC BK OF AMERICA CP 4.30 1:22PM ET Up 0.39 (9.97%) 249,800,726
C CITIGROUP INC 2.39 1:22PM ET Up 0.25 (11.68%) 194,824,111
CAT CATERPILLAR INC 24.9495 1:22PM ET Down 0.1705 (0.68%) 11,638,279
CVX CHEVRON CORP 65.11 1:22PM ET Up 2.17 (3.45%) 8,757,567
DD DU PONT E I DE NEM 19.16 1:22PM ET Up 0.25 (1.32%) 5,571,411
DIS WALT DISNEY-DISNEY C 17.51 1:22PM ET Up 0.54 (3.18%) 8,096,718
GE GEN ELECTRIC CO 8.73 1:22PM ET Down 0.12 (1.36%) 125,678,189
GM GEN MOTORS 1.97 1:22PM ET Up 0.20 (11.30%) 5,891,359
HD HOME DEPOT INC 20.1978 1:22PM ET Up 1.4878 (7.95%) 21,230,457
HPQ HEWLETT PACKARD CO 28.96 1:22PM ET Down 0.32 (1.09%) 19,990,252
IBM INTL BUSINESS MACH 84.92 1:22PM ET Up 0.55 (0.65%) 5,917,136
INTC Intel Corporation 12.4718 1:22PM ET Up 0.3918 (3.24%) 37,794,045
JNJ JOHNSON AND JOHNS DC 54.10 1:22PM ET Up 0.45 (0.84%) 10,041,551
JPM JP MORGAN CHASE CO 20.05 1:22PM ET Up 0.54 (2.77%) 93,669,117
KFT KRAFT FOODS INC 23.17 1:22PM ET Up 0.21 (0.91%) 7,720,886
KO COCA COLA CO THE 42.56 1:22PM ET Up 0.47 (1.12%) 6,064,920
MCD MCDONALDS CP 54.45 1:22PM ET Up 0.58 (1.08%) 5,903,415
MMM 3M COMPANY 46.15 1:22PM ET Up 0.74 (1.63%) 3,521,164
MRK MERCK CO INC 28.0301 1:22PM ET Up 0.1501 (0.54%) 8,351,708
MSFT Microsoft Corporation 16.46 1:23PM ET Down 0.75 (4.36%) 70,588,331
PFE PFIZER INC 13.36 1:22PM ET Up 0.09 (0.68%) 36,494,725
PG PROCTER GAMBLE CO 49.29 1:22PM ET Up 0.39 (0.80%) 7,609,822
T AT&T INC. 22.91 1:22PM ET Up 0.23 (1.01%) 21,593,171
UTX UNITED TECH 42.31 1:22PM ET Down 0.04 (0.09%) 3,720,554
VZ VERIZON COMMUN 28.14 1:22PM ET Up 0.29 (1.04%) 9,569,009
WMT WAL MART STORES 49.65 1:22PM ET Up 0.77 (1.58%) 12,549,371
XOM EXXON MOBIL CP 7 0.85 1:22PM ET Up 1.55 (2.24%) 23,149,625
Black Star Ranch writes:
.....we've been getting busloads of "ornamentals" (I think mostly Chinese) "touring" thru here looking for inexpensive properties for months now. They always pay cash and many have purchased. I think across the US we'll find many more of our neighbors will be from East Asia.
I, for one, welcome foreign knife catchers from all nations. Our next great export: real estate losses.
"that is when the union breaks up and not until."
I try to encourage Texans to seceede, and take OK and AK with them.
Good to see all the green numbers in the financials. They were nervous for a week or so that they might not still be in charge. Bernanke reassured them admirably well.
we all know what's coming next... rally sell-off.
I know I just did! And bought more TBT.
CRM,
Crap, I missed your earlier post.
Bernanke reassured them admirably well.
anon |
===
Yeah, that will last a good day, maybe two.
When folks in NY & Ohio & Alabama say it isn't worth supporting 'Mexicans in Cali' or some similar situation in another region - THAT is when the union breaks up. Just because a region wants to secede doesn't mean they will be able to pull it off - not until the fed both CAN'T nor WON'T force them back in.
You would figure California would have to stop receiving 80 cents or so from the federal government for every $1 it pays in taxes for this to actually make sense, but that'd be pretty awesome if the south just decided against all evidence that they're in subsidizing California instead of the other way around and decided to let the state go. You would think someone would step in to question the wisdom of this, but that's probably a bad assumption with the way we're going.
"I try to encourage Texans to seceede, and take OK and AK with them."
....I'd move to OK if that happened.
Economics is not trading. Trading is not economics. How difficult can buy low, sell high be? Well, if you forget to sell...
Ministry of Truth writes:
No Nationalization?
Actually sounds like a pretty good pla
This is from the perspective that the Fed is more powerful than the states.
Dust Bowling for Dollars | 02.24.09 - 1:50 pm | #
The federal gov't is INFINITELY more powerful. It can muster troops from all over the nation and CRUSH local opposition at will anywhere. Plus a small fraction of Americans are more loyal to their state than the nation - few would fight for Texas or cali - that all died over 100 year ago. It is only a handful of state rights nuts who are the exception.
But if the fed itself decides some parts of the union just aren't worth the hassle - then we'll see dissolution - not until.
why are axp bac and jpm in there anyways? how is that 'industrial'?
Don't joke about TX seceding.
So what does Texas have to do to survive as a Republic?
with Texas , will take on a whole new meaning.
need for the next 300 years. Yankee states? Sorry about that.
(We're big braggers too)
those Northern States. John Kerry will have to figure out a way to
keep them warm .
computer chips and communicationssmall companies like Texas
Instruments, Dell Computer, EDS, Raytheon, National Semiconductor,
Motorola, Intel, AMD, Atmel, Applied Materials, Ball Miconductor,
Dallas Semiconductor, Delphi , Nortel, Alcatel, etc, etc. The list
goes on and on.
research, the best burn centers and the top trauma units in the world,
as well as other large health centers. Dallas has some of the best
hospitals in the United States .
Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Rice, SMU, University of Houston , Baylor, UNT
( University of North Texas ), Texas Womens University, etc. Ivy
grows better in the South anyway.
when we need some more.
and the Texas Air National Guard. We dont have an Army, but since
everybody down here has at least six rifles and a pile of ammo, we can
raise an Army in 24 hours if we need one. If the situation really
gets bad, we can always call the Department of Public Safety and ask
them to send over Chuck Norris and a couple of Texas Rangers.
types of grain, fruit and vegetables, and lets not forget seafood
from the Gulf. Also, everybody down here knows how to cook them so
that they taste good. Dont need any food.
This just names a few of the items that will keep the Republic of
Texas in good shape. There isnt a thing out there that we need and
dont have.
Don't Cry for Me Tehachapi writes:
why are axp bac and jpm in there anyways? how is that 'industrial'?
Debt is one of our foremost products.
Why do Texans make for the best astronauts?
They took up space in school.
Ohh ahh.. market caught a Stiffie!
"There isnt a thing out there that we need and
dont have."
I know, this is why its a great deal for both sides. take ok and ar too, and you have okie oil and WALMART!
you get all that stuff, and we go from a 40% creationist country to a 25% one... win win wi
Why so much racism today, do all you bear get narrow minded when the market goes up?
Holy schmoly look at RKH.
Regional Bank HOLDRs (ETF) - Google Finance
You would figure California would have to stop receiving 80 cents or so from the federal government for every $1 it pays in taxes for this to actually make sense, but that'd be pretty awesome if the south just decided against all evidence that they're in subsidizing California instead of the other way around and decided to let the state go. You would think someone would step in to question the wisdom of this, but that's probably a bad assumption with the way we're going.
sanity clause | 02.24.09 - 1:53 pm | #
Depends on the total flow of resources not just 'taxes' - I'm sure Latvia sent more Rubles to Moscow than Moscow sent Rubles to Latvia IN TAXES but Latvia still cost too much to occupy - that was when the USSR become 13 some independent nations.
"I, for one, welcome foreign knife catchers from all nations. Our next great export: real estate losses.
query_tool"
There are some subtleties here. If you are from a foreign country and its currency drops 50% vs the dollar, you could make a profit in your home currency.
Even better, if your home country implodes and you are able to move to the US and avoid the civil war and revenge killings, a house is a way to preserve some of your investment. While some tinfoil hatters talk about widespread unrest in the US, it's far more likely in many other nations.
The federal gov't is INFINITELY more powerful. It can muster troops from all over the nation and CRUSH local opposition at will anywhere. Plus a small fraction of Americans are more loyal to their state than the nation - few would fight for Texas or cali - that all died over 100 year ago. It is only a handful of state rights nuts who are the exception.
dryfly | 02.24.09 - 1:54 pm | #
Katrina really made me wonder how much power the US has within our borders...
Don't Cry For Me, then you are OK with a horse and buggy, or you don't understand what is refined in Texas. In fact, if I were Texas, I would say **** off, and charge the US up the arse for refined crude. Where would you like the next refinery, the Monterey area or possibly Martha's Vineyard?
There are some subtleties here. If you are from a foreign country and its currency drops 50% vs the dollar, you could make a profit in your home currency.
Even better, if your home country implodes and you are able to move to the US and avoid the civil war and revenge killings, a house is a way to preserve some of your investment. While some tinfoil hatters talk about widespread unrest in the US, it's far more likely in many other nations.
some investor guy | 02.24.09 - 1:57 pm | #
Good points. Win-win?
Report: Biden's Son, Brother Marketed Hedge Fund Through Stanford Company
Vice President Joe Biden's brother and son ran a fund of hedge funds marketed by companies controlled by disgraced Texas billionaire R. Allen Stanford, according to a report published in the Wall Street Journal. [...]The $50 million fund was jointly branded between the Biden family's Paradigm Global Advisors LLC and a Stanford Financial Group entity and was called the Paradigm Stanford Capital Management Core Alternative Fund, according to the report published Monday in the Wall Street Journal.
"[When] corruption.. has prevailed in those offices [of]... government and [has] so familiarized itself as that men otherwise honest could look on it without horror,... [then we must] be alive to the suppression of this odious practice and... bring to punishment and brand with eternal disgrace every man guilty of it, whatever be his station." --Thomas Jefferson to W. C. C. Claiborne, 1804. (*)
WWIII : California vs. Texas.
I would not be short this market with O giving his speech tonight and Timmay doing his tomorrow.
ALL of those Texas companies, will vanish from Texas.
Argument moot.
what?
SPECTRE of Deflation writes:
No a 13 shot 45 ACP loaded with 230 GR Bonded Hollow Point bullets will do. I assure you they will be wheeled away! Go Gold Dot if ya can get em'. :>)!!!
SPECTRE of Deflation 1:49 pm
--
im no expert but a 45 with 13 rounds in the mag...never seen one
please name a manufacturer...is this a double column mag??, would have to be very fat???
few would fight for Texas
dryfly | 02.24.09 - 1:54 pm | #
I'm guessing you're not from Texas. I love your insight, it's the top, but this one rings hollow.
I think I have a much more apocalyptic scenario in my mind. It's a theoretical future US, not past or present. How many show up to fight for a federal government that is clearly tottering, and can only pay them in worthless scrip? How many leave home because they got a letter from an increasingly toothless Uncle Sam, when their family needs them at home, to fight for their own safety and provision?
"few would fight for Texas...."
...I think you're QUITE wrong about that - and I'm a Nevadan.
Might be a CR Companion/Haloscan thing.
EvilHenryPaulson | 02.24.09 - 1:34 pm | #
Won't take credit for this one.
"or you don't understand what is refined in Texas."
Tesoro has a few plants that aren't in texas. Between that and the second-biggest port in the world, we'll make it.
Spingfield XDM
The federal gov't is INFINITELY more powerful. It can muster troops from all over the nation and CRUSH local opposition at will anywhere.
One crazy dude sneaks up to a post office after dark and torches the place. Muster some troops from North Carolina and send them to Oklahoma or wherever to deal with the one guy? Not practicable. Multiply this one guy times 1000. Unmanageable.
The mistake of all big empires is in assuming that a modern military can deal with widespread small scale civil unrest in any kind of economic manner. If it could deal with a populace in revolt, we would have no need for the fictions of elections, a constitution, or a "representative" government.
" I would not be short this market with O giving his speech tonight and Timmay doing his tomorrow."
Right, because the market has responded so positively to what they've had to say.
I try to encourage Texans to seceede, and take OK and AK with them.
Don't Cry for Me Tehachapi | 02.24.09 - 1:52 pm | #
As long as we get to keep NASA, Jeff Bezos' space port in West Texas (actually I like the entirety of West Texas), Armadillo Aerospace, wind power, solar power, petrogiants, natural gas and oil resources, fertile farmland, excellent agricultural and engineering universities and Austin I'm cool. What... you want us back? Haha, no I'm not for splitting, it's counter-trend. I believe consolidation started with Ugg and Oot moving into the same cave so one could keep the fire going while the other found food.
Mock,
I present you the Kriss Super V 45 caliber submachine gun.
New submachine gun could shake up the firearms world | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com
WWIII : California vs. Texas.
debtinator | 02.24.09 - 1:58 pm | #
Not WWIII; it's just a bowl game.
"no expert but a 45 with 13 rounds in the mag...never seen one"
I have one. It's a Springfield Armory XD45.
1. NASA is just south of Houston , Texas . We will control the space industry.
Will you be using the Florida or California launch facilities?
2. We refine over 85% of the gasoline in the United States .
You didn't just make this up you actually must know it was a lie. TX has 4.7mbpd out of a US total refining capacity of 17.6mbpd.
...
This just names a few of the items that will keep the Republic of
Texas in good shape. There isn't a thing out there that we need and
don't have.
anon | 02.24.09 - 1:54 pm | #
Good snark but you need to be careful. There's those who will repeat your words as truth. BTW, everything you said actually applies to California.
Mad Max was about a future-scape where the world had run out of oil.
Max Mad will be the future where the world has run out of consumer goods, but not oil.
The Latest from Denninger:
CDS Solution: A Model
with all of this talk of the gov taking a 40% position in C - shouldn't trading be halted until an announcement is made?
" I try to encourage Texans to seceede, and take OK and AK with them."
I believe Texas is one of the few states that can actually balance their budget... without a state income tax too!
Course, that may change, heh.