Hopefully they will actually lay off workers at their Wichita, Kansas plant. That place seems to escape layoffs and people get paid $80,000/year there to push a button--a lot like the automakers.
I say, I say again...the world wide OTC Derivatives market seems to be in everyone's crosshairs except that of the media. European Union tried to establish a Central clearinghouse for these but the USA wouldn't participate. Now the Dept. of Agriculture wants to establish one.
$684 Trillion They want to reduce risk - Translation: somebody big may be in trouble....they want you to be the buyer.
and of course bush jr and reagan pilled up more debt while they had control of the senate for 6 of the eight years of their presidencies, than all other presidents put together
$684 Trillion They want to reduce risk - Translation: somebody big may be in trouble....they want you to be the buyer. \t Anonymous Anonymous | 01.09.09 - 2:09 pm | #
"We'll take it all," says the buyer of last resort. "I'm just humbled to be able to contribute to saving the world from the precipice of disaster."
This reporter notes that the buyer of last resort has unlimited funds in currencies that can't be devalued, so there is nothing to worry about with this, or any other news.
Boeing cutting jobs doesn't pass the smell test considering the majority of its' contracts are with the Defense Department and Homeland Security.
"Boeing Wins Deal For Border Security
Washington Post September 20, 2006
Aerospace and defense giant Boeing Co. has won a multibillion-dollar contract to revamp how the United States guards about 6,000 miles of border in an attempt to curb illegal immigration, congressional sources said yesterday.
Boeing has been one of the Defense Department's largest contractors for decades, and has been trying to win Homeland Security awards since the department was created.
In pursuing this contract, Boeing pointed to its work installing explosive-detection systems at more than 400 airports in less than six months following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks"
I have family in Wichita, my mother was raised there. At least Wichitans didn't hyperinflate their houses to over spend the last decade.
Interesting how I was just reading a book on BTK and the authors mentioned that manufacturers like Boeing chose Wichita for the locals' experience working on heavy farm equipment. I'd have assumed they were just going after less union prone areas.
come on enough...who cares...were paddling up the colorado river in april with a canoe and all the govt is taking pictures of us as we hit big drop, Satans gut pocket watch...
Wichita was chosen by the USAAF because it would be impossible for Japan or Geramny to bomb it in WWII. It was a government built war plant that was sold at wars end to Boeing.
The plant was specifically built for the ultra-priority B-29 which in turn was linked from the get go to the atomic bomb... the other tales of it being selected as just being a magically perfect fit have always been government sponsored disinformation, designed to hide the ultimate rationale for the first atomic bomber.
Having experience starting up a few greenfield industrial plants with significant mechanization, I have never heard anyone roll out the excuse that the locals have experience with farm equipment as justification for location.
Taxes is #1, followed closely by "English speaking", then usually politics and labor cost.
and i will post my real name if i loose if the winner will too
i bet 100$ to my favorite charity boy and girl scouts of america..
against the first person who will take this on (and play by the same rules)
that within 9 months
the loud mouthed liars out there like oxy bimbaugh and brilloyellatya-really
and company
will be blaming this depression on obama...less than 9 months from now
these are the same guys who said 911 was not really bush responsibility cause he'd only been on the job 9 months
im sick of the lies
i respect any adversary who comes at me with links, data documentation and criticizes a specific presidential signings or bills passed by congress
im just sick and tired of the some of the posters here who throw out accusations and dont back it up
if we stand any chance of avoiding economic and political total disaster, we gotta deal in facts here... not right wing or left wing wild accusation
example
i fault clinton for signing the death of glass steagall (even though the vote in house of reps and senate was veto proof and he was under impeachment and it wouldnt have made a dimes difference if he did
Yeah that book didn't cite anything. Kansas is fun to drive through. With a powerful telescope you can see the Entering Colorado sign from the Kansas/Missouri border.
As China contracts, GE stabs Boeing in back with China aircraft buy
Posted Nov 4th 2008 9:58AM by Peter Cohan
The global aircraft business sure is complex. Big companies are both suppliers and customers of each other. There are only two major competitors -- but one new one, backed by the Chinese government -- threatens to alter the structure of the industry.
This complexity comes to mind in analyzing a General Electric Co. (NYSE: GE) threat to Boeing (NYSE: BA) -- which it leveled by placing a $750 million order for five aircraft -- with an option to buy 20 more -- with China's Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (CACC). CACC was formed earlier this year through the merger of China's two state aircraft makers, AVIC I and AVIC. And the expansion does not stop there -- today China announced plans to acquire a foreign general aviation aircraft maker to "shore up its technology capabilities."
GE's CACC buy is hurting one of GE's biggest customers -- that's because GE Aviation sells billions worth of engines to Boeing. And GE's aircraft financing unit -- GE Capital Aviation Services -- is in competition with American International Group's (NYSE: AIG) aircraft financing unit, International Lease Finance Corp. -- which is one of Boeing's biggest customers.
....it's worth remembering that GE is both a supplier and customer of CACC -- the same relationships it has with Boeing -- though on a much smaller scale. But Boeing probably perceives GE's move as helping to create a big new competitor. Meanwhile, GE may see itself as trying to strengthen a customer of its Aviation and Finance units." As China contracts, GE stabs Boeing in back with China aircraft buy - BloggingStocks
I think like all good Americans, he get irritated at the efforts of the Republican faithful to make sure everyone, meaning no one, is to blame.
Are you a good American, or are you a domestic terrorist? Isn't divisive politics fun? Next comes the part where publicly expressing your views can result in you being punished for political unreliability. Here's some tickets to a Dixie Chick's concert, have fun, LOL.
Squirrel pemmican. Slow barbequed for hours, marinade injected with soy and rice vinegar. Makes the bones jellify. Then pound flat with rolling pin or tire iron. Lay in the sun to dry biscuit hard. Delicious. Chewy but durable. Good for barricade work, or waiting out looters in the bunker.
If the squirrels are moss eaters, no need for disemboweling. Although they drying phase is longer.
Bring floss.
$684 trillion: go to Bloomberg and search for OTC Derivatives clearing house
...so they drag this lurking, huge, bloated , broken beast up from the depths and ask you to take a big chunk of it... Ahab, will you carefully measure every inch of it, or be satisfied if they only shove $37 trillion up your nostrils and ask you to breath deep the gathering glooom or will your sated senses convince you that this is hellish, putrid, stinking, decaying matter best not foisted onto the over-laden back of the trudging taxpayer?
Idiots like limbaugh have no idea of the shit storm headed their way, someone very smart once said "a country that can not help the many who are poor, can not save the few who are rich". They think dividing the country at a time like this is helpful to their cause. They are foolish
bgates writes:
"Seattle keeps getting less special every day."
i think you meant everett - and they moved HQ 5 or so years ago
bgates
No, I meant Seattle. Boeing is one of the pillars frequently cited as evidence that the Seattle metro area is immune from economic downturns "Special ™"
@Popeye
Your TA sucks. Early week good call more than canceled by yesterday. And you said you have to make you living trading. I'm fanning myself today with some of your money.
Boeing signs Chinese parts makers
JUNE 3, 2005
BEIJING: Boeing, the world's second-biggest maker of commercial aircraft, said Thursday that it signed contracts with Chinese aircraft parts makers valued at an estimated $600 million as part of its plan to cut production costs.
The agreements with four companies include the first firm contract with Chinese suppliers to make parts for the 787 jetliner, the company's first new model in 15 years, Boeing said in a statement issued in Beijing.
Boeing is trying to reduce costs to make its airplanes more competitively priced against Airbus, which surpassed Boeing as the top commercial plane maker by deliveries in 2003. More than 3,500 Boeing planes have major parts and assemblies made in China.
Boeing awarded contracts to Hafei Aviation Industry, an affiliate of China Aviation Industry Corp. II, Chengdu Aircraft industrial (Group), a unit of China Aviation Industry Corp. I, BHA Aero Composite Parts, a venture between Boeing, Hexcel and AVIC I, and Shenyang Aircraft.
Including Thursday's agreements, Boeing now has $1.6 billion current and future contracts with Chinese aircraft parts makers, said Starr Tavenner, the U.S. company's country team leader for commercial airplanes. Search - Global Edition - The New York Times
Boeing is using the "economy" as the excuse in cutting jobs. They are offshoring jobs to China.
"
Boeing is using the "economy" as the excuse in cutting jobs. They are offshoring jobs to China."
And to think that my first thought when this news hit the wire was to joke that when the workers were re-hired ability to speak Mandarin would be a requirement.
actually I have no issue with you or your comments..it just seems that this whole repub, dem, liberal, cons.
is just nonsense when really it comes down to people right now need to unite not fight...
they want us to, it distracts us...I'm not smart as most people here and enjoy all the comments except when popeye starts drinking martinis...without them I dont his comments either...tolerent of others is going to be big reason we pull out of this...if we dont this destructive period in our country will be even uglier...
I wish you and your family the best and though a uber bear I wish that for all...
Jan. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Bank AGs co-head of global credit trading, Boaz Weinstein, is leaving Europes largest investment bank to set up his own hedge fund following trading losses in his group at the end of last year.
Your TA sucks. Early week good call more than canceled by yesterday. And you said you have to make you living trading. I'm fanning myself today with some of your money. Guiseppe de Egypto | 01.09.09 - 2:43 pm | #
You do know you don't have to be right 100% of the time to make money trading, right?
There's only two types of people who win 100% of their trades: liars, and thieves.
Here is an interesting exercise for those interested. If you are searching for a credit union to put money they post their financials. The alarming thing is that they are hiding their mortgage portfolio losses.
Search a credit union near you and then look at the delinquent loans by collateral type.. you will find a big blacked out area next to 1st Mortgages Real Estate Loans
Yay, my industry (sort of), so finally I can contribute
Not surprising. North American airlines started cutting capacity last summer and the rest are slowly following their lead. Like everything else in this economy, aircraft became an asset bubble driven by:
1) Chinese and Indian demand
2) Middle Eastern governments dumping their petrodollars into their airlines to diversify their city-states (Emirates, Etihad etc)
3) The rising price of oil from 2003 forward allowed airlines to justify buying new aircraft as they were more fuel-efficient
4) Cheap credit. A North American airline that had filed for bankruptcy twice this decade was able to finance their aircraft at around L+140 bps.
The spike in oil earlier this year made airlines start cutting capacity. The Chinese and Indian airlines were counting on the middle class customers who just didn't show up when the ticket prices rose due to fuel, so they were forced to start deferring their orders. Hell, the Indian airlines didn't have cash to pay their fuel bills and the Chinese had to bailed out by the government.
Now with business travel and consumer demand falling globally, there will more order deferrals and cancellations. Overheard some rumours of an Asian airline saying their forward bookings are down 40% YoY.
Guiseppe de Egypto,
I'm sorry you are disappointed. If you recall, I only posted my TA in response to a question from Gavshire.
He asked what would cause TA bulls to abandon their position. At the time, the spx was over 915. I said any print below 885.
When the spx dropped below 900 yesterday, I bought with a stop loss at 885.
I am not your investment adviser - nor have I received your subscription payment for my TA advice. Ergo, please don't place your bets on the basis of my advice.
i bet 100$ to my favorite charity boy and girl scouts of america..
against the first person who will take this on (and play by the same rules)
that within 9 months
the loud mouthed liars out there like oxy bimbaugh and brilloyellatya-really
and company
will be blaming this depression on obama...less than 9 months from now
Mock Turtle,
Thats sort of like looking for someone to bet against the sun rising in the east. 9 months, more likely 9 weeks, I'd say 9 days, but even they will have to wait until after the inaugration.
Talked ot my Dad, a hardcore conservative over the holidaze. He said he was reasonably please w/ Obama's moves so far (Gates, et al), and that it's probably be no worse and maybe better than McCain would've done.
Hey thanks for the link - just been following this closely - my gut is the follow on effects of this ramp up in a non-linear fashion the longer it drags on...
One hundred degree's, humidity higher than that, left the hills of my great state for The Alaskan Cruise and got to heaven that night with no Humiddiity and no need for a/c. Have taken the cruise several times and Seattle never fails me.
So serious, popeye. All grain of salt here. I guess you can drop the messiah complex though.
"Your ability to forecast anything (in this new market with gov't intervention) is extremely limited"
Puzzles inside games inside board plays. Short term noise, long term trend. Video - CNBC.com
$684 Trillion They want to reduce risk - Translation: somebody big may be in trouble....they want you to be the buyer. \t Anonymous | \t \t \t \t01.09.09 - 2:09 pm | #
At least 90 trillion is on JPM's sheet. They were supposed to be the smart strong bank. I bring this up every few weeks but no one ever wants to dig into it.
Boy are the Daily Kos folks are nervous about the "messiah" already. Eight years of Bush bashing and now they get their turn.
Our "messiah" will be in charge soon (the demoKrat house having been in charge for two years already) and as the smartest guy in the world everything will be ok...FDR II...err, make that Jimmah II.
At the outset of the 57-day Boeing strike, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) District 751 president Tom Wroblewski declared: We certainly want to prevent them [Boeing] from bringing nonunion people into the factory. The 27,000 Boeing Machinists sure could have, but the union tops folded on the key issue of outsourcing and scuttled the walkout. After eight weeks of struggle and sacrifice, workers were handed a settlement that allows the aerospace giant to continue to contract out work as before and to give non-union suppliers access to the plants. While not a crushing defeat, the back-to-work deal was no victory either. Strike Settlement Opens Door to Job Cuts
Sum one likey oversized gimlet glass with long pour and extra, extra dry.
Olive brine, vodka, with a vodka sidecar followed by a vodka chaser. Like the vermouth off a finger tip.
Voila. Popeye noon martini. Update your Bartender's guide.
Now let's trade.
bgates
Barley
Comrade Byzantine Ruins
Popeye
Crewman
Eric
CD
Anonymous (which one ?)
Gary
Bob (esp thanks)
001 (could you introduce me to one of bonds lovely friends...maybe would help!
Dirk van Dijk
and last but not least
XXXXX
ok im leaving for the liquor store now its noon in the pacific north west
Question: I recall reading that (I am almost certian) India recently defaulted on some loans for planes. Was it India and which aircraft manufacturer?
Barley | 01.09.09 - 2:52 pm | #
I don't believe I've heard of a Purchase Agreement default, you might be referring to Kingfisher "defaulting" on an A320 lease from GE, though it was a dispute more than anything.
Uffish Thought(Unrated) writes: \tsaw a gal wearing a T-shirt with a map of Kansas on it, text said "Not everything in Kansas is flat" Uffish Thought | 01.09.09 - 3:04 pm | #
Being a country boy at heart, I've got a real soft spot (figuratively speaking for country girls.
Carriers mull ways to trim excess flab
By Lu Haoting and Zhou Yan (China Daily)
Updated: 2008-12-13
Chinese airlines are still weighing the pros and cons of canceling or deferring taking delivery of new airplanes next year after the government on Tuesday asked them to strictly control capacity to maintain a balance between demand and supply.
"We will make final decisions in the first quarter of 2009 based on our load factor, " said Xu Junmin, board secretary of Shanghai Airlines.
China Southern Airlines, the country's largest airline by fleet numbers, made a similar comment, saying their plan of receiving new planes is going to be adjusted in accordance with the traffic demand.
The carrier has planned to receive 35 new jets for 2009, the majority of which are Airbus A320 and Boeing B737 single-aisle aircraft.
...Air China, the country's flagship carrier, said it would not change its plan to receive 23 A320 and B737 jets next year.
....Airbus and Boeing said on Friday that they had not received any requests from Chinese airlines to delay or cancel airplane orders.
Both companies declined to release their delivery schedules for China in 2009.
Chinese airlines made orders in the past two years based on an annual industry growth rate of 15 percent. Boeing's website showed China ordered 424 airplanes between 2005 and November 2008, and the company delivered 130 aircraft to China during the period. Carriers mull ways to trim excess flab
I don't believe I've heard of a Purchase Agreement default, you might be referring to Kingfisher "defaulting" on an A320 lease from GE, though it was a dispute more than anything.
alybaba | 01.09.09 - 3:02 pm | #
Would be a shame if Kingfisher went under, better airline than anything I have flown on in the States
Are FRE PF/PN backed by the Fed, if so how? Why the 17% haircut today?
The mortgage complex is getting whacked because of the pending lien-stripping proposal. Citi's approval of the proposal was strictly as a servicer, but it would be the GSE and the bondholders would be holding the bag.
Rubin is gonzo from Citi -- he has tendered his letter and simultaneously engaged council. he will be gathering his own war cabinet to include roommates Skilling and the Koz. Their contract with treasury will be pro bono on behalf of all Americans.
Cajun squirrel among crisp flavours tested by Walkers - Telegraph
Cajun squirrel among crisp flavours tested by Walkers
Crisps that taste of chilli and chocolate, onion bhaji and even Cajun squirrel will be unleashed on the public as part of a Walkers competition to find a new flavour.
(Squirrel California pizza?)
king county's main economic role is as a safety valve for californian refugees. no one with any objectivity though that boeing and weyerhauser (and msft, for that matter) could be what they once were.
can it continue in that role despite less californian RE equity? we'll see.
toobigtofail(Unrated) writes: \txxxxx wrote what did i do?
UH, I think you told the truth! xxxxx writes: "They're doing this now. Already." \t toobigtofail | \t \t \t \t01.09.09 - 3:08 pm | # toobigtofail | 01.09.09 - 3:08 pm | #
Eric said that. I told an anecdote about my Dad who, though he's always been a conservative Republican, was sick and tired of GWB, and for the time being, mostly approves of what BHO has been doing vis a vis his cabinent choices and press announcements during the transition.
I'd say there are $300 billion of unfinanced deliveries in the next 2 years. The biggest players in financing these are the German Landesbanks, which I'm sure you've heard, are doing great. Another avenue (especially used in NA) was the EETC bond market, which is dead. Asian banks will still finance their core regional customers (i.e SIA, Cathay, Qantas, JAL, ANA etc), but the weaker European and American airlines will have trouble.
Expect Boeing and Airbus to try and get TARP type money to help finance all these aircraft - they don't have the balance sheet to do backstops on all of these deliveries. The EXIM Bank and other Export-Credit Agencies will have to step in to make up the shortfall somehow. If not, then you have a tons of whitetails (unfinanced aircraft sitting on the tarmac), which will on worsen the slide in aircraft values, eroding equity on balance sheets of airlines and leasing companies.
FFDIC(Unrated) writes: \thttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/fooda...by- Walkers.html Cajun squirrel among crisp flavours tested by Walkers Crisps that taste of chilli and chocolate, onion bhaji and even Cajun squirrel will be unleashed on the public as part of a Walkers competition to find a new flavour. (Squirrel California pizza?) \t FFDIC | \t \t \t \t01.09.09 - 3:11 pm | # FFDIC | 01.09.09 - 3:11 pm | #
I share your indigestion. Who can stomach all this ideologically driven crap pretending to be analysis or at least informed opinion.
Mike2,
Here in Portland we are about to discover we are no longer "Special " in terms of immunity from the macro-economic fall out. But we are still Special , just less cash flowing to stay Special .
I work in development review in the public sector and also teach part-time at the local public university.
Leading economic indicator data from both sources is just gruesome. Things really turned in October and December is ugly and the 1Q is gonna be so fugly that layoffs before the end of the fiscal year (July '09) are on there way.
I suspect this recession is really going to reduce the middle class and we are going to see a much wider division between top and bottom. Ironically then, 8 plus years of neoconservative economics and policy will further entrench wealth and make a meaningful government response to the situation difficult if not meaningless.
Oh yeah, and there is still that two front war thingy.
Unfortunately the blathering class of neocon - far right idiots will just further their efforts at class and race division and cultivating false consciousness amongst the vulnerable and clueless.
Building airplanes is extremely resource intensive and sensitive to economic instability. We can be pissed all we want about AirBus, but there is something to be said for socializing some industries if one believes in stable middle class being necessary for a democratic and just world in the long term while ensuring the needs of capitalism are met.
Dry Marti Recipe: Place 7 ounces of Gin with ice in shaker. Pour one ounce Vermouth in shot glass. Place 2 olives in a chilled martini glass. Take shot of Vermouth, breathe on Martini Glass, pour Gin, and enjoy.
i bet 100$ to my favorite charity boy and girl scouts of america..
Is this a joke? Are the Scouts really your favorite charity? If so, you are concerned about wingnuts blaming Obama for the potential Depression to come?
This really is upside down world.
Obama will be to blame for the Depression, he will do his part, every bit as much as the Bipartisan Consensus that's been in place for over 30 years now. The Bipartisan Consensus doesn't represent the Plebes....it's a tool of the Plutocracy, so this partisan bickering by the Plebes is comical.
rps writes:
Boeing cutting jobs doesn't pass the smell test considering the majority of its' contracts are with the Defense Department and Homeland Security.
The 4,500 jobs are from the commercial aircraft portion of the company.
xxxx: See, its not class warfare whenever multinational corporations outsource American jobs and then insource illegal labor for the things that can't be outsourced...
After bashing Bush, I will say that I think Pelosi and Reid need to grow a pair. Or they need to be replaced by someone with a spine. Their favorite hobby is caving.
Or maybe "Bush bashing" was simply political pandering, and "caving" is simply their true colors.
It's difficult to be too cynical about politicians at the state and national levels.
I be a gubmint worker in the PNW (at a university which just cut its 103 yr old football program to stop some budgetary bleeding).
I'm a 4th generation Seattleite, recently relocated up I-5 to Bellingham.
Lets just say being of solid blue-collar genestock, I've seen a lot of trouble here, as have my parents, grandparents & great-grandparents.
This feels ickier (that's a technical term).
Co-workers near retirement have lost 36% of their state-run funds in the past year. Admin is talking pay cuts, unpaid days off, department closures, and unions be damned.
Now we have damages & clean-up from these gawd-awful storms, job cuts, a major (though ailing) newspaper closing, etc and so forth.
So happy I moved to rural Whatcom county to do my self-retraining as a farmer. I always plan for the worst, I just never thought it would come about in my lifetime.
Okay, I want to see a clean break and transition to the next thread. I want swords or at a minimum broken bottles and chains, none of this eye gouging crap.
People are here to see some swordsmanship, it doesn't look good if it's just two guys rolling around on the sand.
Out of curiosity, what's the problem with the scouts?
the stuff with homosexuality?
Or something else?
FWIW - the BSA made its bed re funding with the stance on no homosexuality and is finding that it really is financially on its own. Many United Way chapters will no longer support and it's up to themselves for money. We'll see where the chips finally fall...
The 6% will come from primarily contractors and temp workers, then those with the least seniority. Managers apparently will be able to "protect" 5% of their staff from layoffs, so potentially some new people might be spared.
Word on the street is that the legacy aircraft business is the problem and that's where most of the cuts are likely to be felt, with retained people being moved to other newer aircraft.
Word on the street is that the legacy aircraft business is the problem and that's where most of the cuts are likely to be felt, with retained people being moved to other newer aircraft.
J.Goodwin | 01.09.09 - 3:51 pm | #
Well, that's only if they get their act together on the 787 rather quickly before they start seeing those order being cancelled too. I'm sure you had airlines and leasing companies speculating on delivery slots, hoping to sell them above market.
Hell there's an entire leasing company (LCAL) who's entire portfolio was supposed to be 787s.
CR said: "...The bad employment news just keeps coming."
Actually, it looks like there might be a glimmer of light. If I've got my data right, the number of jobs (SA total non-farm payrolls) lost in December was actually lower than the number in November.
Working backwards, that month-over-month event occurred at the exact end of the 2001 recession, 1 month before the 1990-'91 recession, 3 months before the end of the 1982 recession, 1 month before the end of the 1980 recession, and 2 months before the end of the '74-'75 recession.
Thanks for the links, Mock @ 2:13 - I hear that crap constantly out of my rightwing koolaid drinking friends and coworkers. Nice to have ammunition, not that it penetrates the firewall when I use it.
Comrade Misean is Dope writes:
I'm getting an ap in for a 767...not to be too greedy ya know.
I know you're making a joke there, but if you were to buy a 767, you might get the last off the line! That series is at end-of-production barring the tanker contract. (Unless that has fallen through... again)
Interesting history of design on the 767, if people are into these kind of thing. Twin-engine over-water licensing, originally designed with two different cockpits (2 or 3 crew) based on what were pending changes to regulations. Boeing took and mitigated some risks.
I actually think the whole homosexual issue with the Boyscouts is comical. Think of how many Log Cabin Republicans that organization has produced. The hypocricy.
dryfly- Yeah, maybe unions are a bad thing in this era, but we still need to keep jobs in the US. No jobs = no money = no business = no economy. DukDKKDkuD | 01.09.09 - 3:39 pm | #
Unions are only as bad as the management that 'created them'... companies get the unions they deserve. Boeing earned theirs.
actually think the whole homosexual issue with the Boyscouts is comical. Think of how many Log Cabin Republicans that organization has produced. The hypocricy.
Morocco Bama | 01.09.09 - 3:59 pm | #
Much depends on the individual scout leader in terms of what a Troop is like. Had 2 in my scouting carrer, 1st was lots of fun, bunch fo guys going camping and stuff, some silly songs and skits etc. The 2 wanted it to be the Jr. Marines, could stand it then. Left as a Star scout. All that said, I think the scouts do some good work, and it is a tradgedy that they screw it up with their asinine stance on Gays.
Many United Way chapters will no longer support and it's up to themselves for money. We'll see where the chips finally fall... Homedad43 | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 3:49 pm | #
My worry would be that with the loss of funding from more moderate sources, that the Scouts will transiton into something worse, like the KKK for Kids!
don't expect recovery for Boeing to ever fully recover because its #1 market - China - is developing its own jets with production expected in 12-10 years. As Boeing is often the number 1 exporter for the US, this is bad news.
China - is developing its own jets with production expected in 12-10 years. Sinomania! | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 4:47 pm | #
Some technologies take an unusual amount of time and expetise to perfect. Aircraft manufactuing would be at the top of that list from my perspective. I deal with Chinese manufactured goods on a regular basis, but I do not think I would bet my life on that quality just yet.
A surplus built on a . . . bubble. MPinCO | 01.09.09 - 4:20 pm | #
If the Clinton admin was responsible for the Naz bubble, why would it not be the Bush admin that is responsible for the current one? In my opinion, the Naz bubble may not have been as bubbly if Bush had not saved Microsoft from break-up. That monopoly has a stiffling effect on many markets and inhibits innovation.
The world would be a better place if the 800 lb tech gorilla was a couple of 400 lb instead.
Morroce Bama - Gary may have over-reacted, but his point is well taken. The Fuzzy Zoeller clip was in poor taste, as was the comment when Fuzzy made it.
Blackhalo writes:
A surplus built on a . . . bubble.
MPinCO | 01.09.09 - 4:20 pm | #
If the Clinton admin was responsible for the Naz bubble, why would it not be the Bush admin that is responsible for the current one?
My point was that the budget was balanced on record capital gains receipts enabled by the stock market bubble. As soon as the bubble burst the deficit went negative. Looks good on the news but under the covers the can was kicked down the road as bubbles are not sustainable. Why was the headlines in 1999 - Global Economic Meldown prevented - "So Far"?
At a high level my point, that seems to have ruffled some Obamania feathers, is that we continue to kick the can down the road and recycle the same economic thought. Rubin, Summers, Greenspan, Bernanke, back to Summers, Rubin. We've gone exponential on spending and even economist seem to think none of this will have consequences. The more deficit spending Obama throws at the economy the less people will spend.
Put me down in the "it's everybody's fault, but the Republicans more so, and Bush even more so" camp.
FWIW, the right-wing pundits these days they're saying the current crisis was caused by "the government forcing the banks to make risky loans." That's a verbatim quote from Hannity's show yesterday. Seriously.
Boeing is one of many that laid off thousands this week. Alcoa dumped 15k, Freightliner cut 2100 today, along with Bechtel's 330, Optisolar 300, Beechcraft 1600, Penloyd 300 and that's just today. If you want to see a rundown of the carnage, take a look at The Layoff List
"According to the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), CDS totaling $43 trillion were outstanding at year end 2007, more than half the size of the entire asset base of the global banking system. Total derivatives amount to over $500 trillion, many of them finding their way onto the balance sheets of SIVs, CDOs and other conduits of their ilk comprising the Frankensteinian levered body of shadow banks."
Good article if you are interested in such things. Buffet also called derivatives "Weapons of mass financial destruction".
talking to a major systems developer from Finland the other day... this might be Rob Dawg's area of expertise but he told me Boeing has this system that remotely takes over control of cockpit and is able to land a plane... essentially it's to safeguard against a 9/11 scenario but he thinks it's more of national security weapon to be used in special cases...
trotskylives writes:
Boy are the Daily Kos folks are nervous about the "messiah" already. Eight years of Bush bashing and now they get their turn.
I doubt Obama can accomplish all the things Dubya did. Let's count them:
1. Ignore intel about imminent al queda attack
2. Read 'my pet goat' during the attack.
3. Appoint the worst secretary of DoD ever.
4. Out one of our own CIA agents
5. Manipulate intel to invade a country
6. Invade a country on bogus data
7. Declare victory 2 months later
8. Botch so-called victory and continue occupation for another 6 years and counting.
9. Turn the SEC into a joke
10. Allow an historical city to drown
11. Let the country fall into a depression.
Barley - some are suggesting the resignation from Ford is to pave the way for increased Citi exposure.. something large scale? Rumors of Ford going private.. etc
I'm looking forward to the "purple grapes of wrath" presidency. In other words, Color Purple meets Tom Joad.
Yeah I'm bad, but I'm still here all week.
Guiseppe de Egypto writes:
I'm looking forward to the "purple grapes of wrath" presidency. In other words, Color Purple meets Tom Joad.
Yeah I'm bad, but I'm still here all week.
Well, if you limit it to this week, I can probably tolerate it.
After bashing Bush, I will say that I think Pelosi and Reid need to grow a pair. Or they need to be replaced by someone with a spine. Their favorite hobby is caving.
This Boeing business is bad news. Clearly, if we had just cut taxes more for the wealthiest American Patriots, and removed any remaining Wall St. regulation, the Obama Depression could have been avoided.
After bashing Bush, I will say that I think Pelosi and Reid need to grow a pair. Or they need to be replaced by someone with a spine. Their favorite hobby is caving.
Or maybe "Bush bashing" was simply political pandering, and "caving" is simply their true colors.
You can any color you'd like, as long as it's black.
mock wrote
i bet 100$ to my favorite charity boy and girl scouts of america..
Morocco wrote
Is this a joke? Are the Scouts really your favorite charity? If so, you are concerned about wingnuts blaming Obama for the potential Depression to come?
Hopefully they will actually lay off workers at their Wichita, Kansas plant. That place seems to escape layoffs and people get paid $80,000/year there to push a button--a lot like the automakers. Mark | 01.09.09 - 2:07 pm | #
Most of their button pushers in Wichita are with Spirit - their spin off company. They spun them off similar to what GM did with Delphi and Ford did with Visteon. The bulk Boeing's remaining workforce in Wichita is in their defense group and if on the commercial side in 'engineering & support'.
OT
chill bear if your out there,
looking at OBeach right now
and it's quiet on wind front and going off..good week for swell ahead...see ya in water...
Also the 53% decrease in orders is a lot like the auto makers. Still, the stock will probably go up with the news that they are cutting costs. God Shammgod | 01.09.09 - 2:10 pm | #
Their new order flow is probably worse than that. It's their BACKLOG that has fallen 50 plus percent. A very big and troubling distinction... and we aren't even talking 'white tails' yet [planes that were built but where the carrier backs out and the plane hasn't been sold yet hence no paint on the tail... they'll be reliving the nightmare the home builders experienced but with REALLY expensive assets].
The company yesterday said it had net orders for 662 planes in 2008, down from 1,413 one year earlier.
Wow.
Maybe they should switch to helicopter production.
Damn it, so close.
"Planes,trains and automobiles"
Can't they just declare themselves a bank?
Go Antonov !
Cheers,
Kilgore Trout
Hopefully they will actually lay off workers at their Wichita, Kansas plant. That place seems to escape layoffs and people get paid $80,000/year there to push a button--a lot like the automakers.
I say, I say again...the world wide OTC Derivatives market seems to be in everyone's crosshairs except that of the media. European Union tried to establish a Central clearinghouse for these but the USA wouldn't participate. Now the Dept. of Agriculture wants to establish one.
$684 Trillion They want to reduce risk - Translation: somebody big may be in trouble....they want you to be the buyer.
a lot like the automakers.
\t Mark
Also the 53% decrease in orders is a lot like the auto makers. Still, the stock will probably go up with the news that they are cutting costs.
Huzza..just 4500, everyone's got to contribute.
Unless of course your TARPed.
Seattle keeps getting less special every day.
Boeing rhymes with boing. This must be the bottom because boing means bounce...
Well unless your a filthy minded adolesent...
oh wait that's boink.
-snicker---
Nostrovia,
...and yet somehow the squirrel derivatives market is exploding.
Are you nuts about squirrel flavour crisps? |
Life and style |
guardian.co.uk
(courtesy the site that shall not be named)
Chips are kinda like tranches, right?
black star ranch
MPinCO
and all the rest who want to say their aint no difference between bush and clinton and this hole mess can be blames on "everybody", i call bs
here are the facts
the clinton administration cut nearly a quarter million federal employees out of the executive branch of the government
Trend of Federal Civilian Employment by Year
the clinton administration was the first administration since carter to bring the federal budget into surplus and they did it two years in a row
Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
with the longest peacetime jobs expansion (private sector) in history
April 2, 1999
and of course bush jr and reagan pilled up more debt while they had control of the senate for 6 of the eight years of their presidencies, than all other presidents put together
see this
Increases in the National Debt Chart
or this
Unknown Domain
or this
Reagan-Bush Years Of Supply-Side Economics Bring Financial Decay | theledger.com | The Ledger | Lakeland, FL
and as for the argument about CRA
the community reinvestment act
ask yourself one question
why this act in existence for more than 30 years should be blamed for mortgage implosion in the last 5
the answer is that nothing NOTHING in the CRA induced or required banks to lend nija loans, no docs, liar loans etc
of the 300 plus banks in trouble for originating these loans none (NONE) were governed by CRA
and virtually all the loans that started this cascading mess are new loans, 28-2s etc that were originated and reset since bush took office
see "big picture" rithhotz
The Big Picture
and search CRA... and get a clue
$684 Trillion They want to reduce risk - Translation: somebody big may be in trouble....they want you to be the buyer.
\t Anonymous
Anonymous | 01.09.09 - 2:09 pm | #
"We'll take it all," says the buyer of last resort. "I'm just humbled to be able to contribute to saving the world from the precipice of disaster."
This reporter notes that the buyer of last resort has unlimited funds in currencies that can't be devalued, so there is nothing to worry about with this, or any other news.
Wow. Part-Time workers will now be 8,004,500 and rising. Soon enough, we'll approach China's 150 million migrant workers.
Boeing cutting jobs doesn't pass the smell test considering the majority of its' contracts are with the Defense Department and Homeland Security.
"Boeing Wins Deal For Border Security
Washington Post September 20, 2006
Aerospace and defense giant Boeing Co. has won a multibillion-dollar contract to revamp how the United States guards about 6,000 miles of border in an attempt to curb illegal immigration, congressional sources said yesterday.
Boeing has been one of the Defense Department's largest contractors for decades, and has been trying to win Homeland Security awards since the department was created.
In pursuing this contract, Boeing pointed to its work installing explosive-detection systems at more than 400 airports in less than six months following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks"
Mark,
I have family in Wichita, my mother was raised there. At least Wichitans didn't hyperinflate their houses to over spend the last decade.
Interesting how I was just reading a book on BTK and the authors mentioned that manufacturers like Boeing chose Wichita for the locals' experience working on heavy farm equipment. I'd have assumed they were just going after less union prone areas.
Boeing rhymes with boing. This must be the bottom because boing means bounce...
Comrade Misean is Dope | 01.09.09 - 2:13 pm | #
And boing is one letter away from bong. Where is CSC?
mock-
come on enough...who cares...were paddling up the colorado river in april with a canoe and all the govt is taking pictures of us as we hit big drop, Satans gut pocket watch...
chances are we capsize they keep picture...
$684 Trillion
Any link explaining how they got this number?
rps
the cuts primarily target the dream liner assembly facilities in seattle area
less dod contract impact there
cd writes:
mock-
come on enough...who cares.
great
i just wanna hear you say that when
S
MPinCO
Black Star Ranch
post up and talk all that nonsense
WITHOUT A SINGLE EFFING LINK !!!!!!
"The bad employment news just keeps coming."
And, if past experience is a guide, will continue even after this recession has ended, which could mean years.
Boeing seems to be losing altitude.
Maybe the can create ball bearings for the war.
mock turtle - Bad Day?
Wichita was chosen by the USAAF because it would be impossible for Japan or Geramny to bomb it in WWII. It was a government built war plant that was sold at wars end to Boeing.
The plant was specifically built for the ultra-priority B-29 which in turn was linked from the get go to the atomic bomb... the other tales of it being selected as just being a magically perfect fit have always been government sponsored disinformation, designed to hide the ultimate rationale for the first atomic bomber.
Why not 894?
Or, 589 trillion??
or 150 trillion?
How is this different from a gazillion?
It is effective infinity. A meaningless number. The suffering will be real.
Having experience starting up a few greenfield industrial plants with significant mechanization, I have never heard anyone roll out the excuse that the locals have experience with farm equipment as justification for location.
Taxes is #1, followed closely by "English speaking", then usually politics and labor cost.
The suffering will be real.
lawyerliz
If we can have 4-5 years of 20%+ inflation it all disappears; so, who cares is right.
heres my bitch CD
and i will post my real name if i loose if the winner will too
i bet 100$ to my favorite charity boy and girl scouts of america..
against the first person who will take this on (and play by the same rules)
that within 9 months
the loud mouthed liars out there like oxy bimbaugh and brilloyellatya-really
and company
will be blaming this depression on obama...less than 9 months from now
these are the same guys who said 911 was not really bush responsibility cause he'd only been on the job 9 months
im sick of the lies
i respect any adversary who comes at me with links, data documentation and criticizes a specific presidential signings or bills passed by congress
im just sick and tired of the some of the posters here who throw out accusations and dont back it up
if we stand any chance of avoiding economic and political total disaster, we gotta deal in facts here... not right wing or left wing wild accusation
example
i fault clinton for signing the death of glass steagall (even though the vote in house of reps and senate was veto proof and he was under impeachment and it wouldnt have made a dimes difference if he did
"At least Wichitans didn't hyperinflate their houses to over spend the last decade."
to be fair, they don't have the option. because no one wants to live there.
why are we recycling boeing headlines from 2002, anyways?
"oxy bimbaugh "
he was way off his game this morning in the ten minutes i caught - and he already is doing exactly that
blert, callous,
Yeah that book didn't cite anything. Kansas is fun to drive through. With a powerful telescope you can see the Entering Colorado sign from the Kansas/Missouri border.
"The company yesterday said it had net orders for 662 planes in 2008, down from 1,413 one year earlier"
No surprize here the Middle East has stopped binging on commercial and private planes.
I do hope the orders are firm and financed.
"Seattle keeps getting less special every day."
i think you meant everett - and they moved HQ 5 or so years ago
As China contracts, GE stabs Boeing in back with China aircraft buy
Posted Nov 4th 2008 9:58AM by Peter Cohan
The global aircraft business sure is complex. Big companies are both suppliers and customers of each other. There are only two major competitors -- but one new one, backed by the Chinese government -- threatens to alter the structure of the industry.
This complexity comes to mind in analyzing a General Electric Co. (NYSE: GE) threat to Boeing (NYSE: BA) -- which it leveled by placing a $750 million order for five aircraft -- with an option to buy 20 more -- with China's Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (CACC). CACC was formed earlier this year through the merger of China's two state aircraft makers, AVIC I and AVIC. And the expansion does not stop there -- today China announced plans to acquire a foreign general aviation aircraft maker to "shore up its technology capabilities."
GE's CACC buy is hurting one of GE's biggest customers -- that's because GE Aviation sells billions worth of engines to Boeing. And GE's aircraft financing unit -- GE Capital Aviation Services -- is in competition with American International Group's (NYSE: AIG) aircraft financing unit, International Lease Finance Corp. -- which is one of Boeing's biggest customers.
....it's worth remembering that GE is both a supplier and customer of CACC -- the same relationships it has with Boeing -- though on a much smaller scale. But Boeing probably perceives GE's move as helping to create a big new competitor. Meanwhile, GE may see itself as trying to strengthen a customer of its Aviation and Finance units."
As China contracts, GE stabs Boeing in back with China aircraft buy - BloggingStocks
mock turtle - Yuuz sound like Denninger
Barley(Excellent) writes:
mock turtle - Bad Day?
I think like all good Americans, he get irritated at the efforts of the Republican faithful to make sure everyone, meaning no one, is to blame.
Are you a good American, or are you a domestic terrorist? Isn't divisive politics fun? Next comes the part where publicly expressing your views can result in you being punished for political unreliability. Here's some tickets to a Dixie Chick's concert, have fun, LOL.
Squirrel pemmican. Slow barbequed for hours, marinade injected with soy and rice vinegar. Makes the bones jellify. Then pound flat with rolling pin or tire iron. Lay in the sun to dry biscuit hard. Delicious. Chewy but durable. Good for barricade work, or waiting out looters in the bunker.
If the squirrels are moss eaters, no need for disemboweling. Although they drying phase is longer.
Bring floss.
Mock,
Care for a martini ?
$684 trillion: go to Bloomberg and search for OTC Derivatives clearing house
...so they drag this lurking, huge, bloated , broken beast up from the depths and ask you to take a big chunk of it... Ahab, will you carefully measure every inch of it, or be satisfied if they only shove $37 trillion up your nostrils and ask you to breath deep the gathering glooom or will your sated senses convince you that this is hellish, putrid, stinking, decaying matter best not foisted onto the over-laden back of the trudging taxpayer?
5 new flavors of squirrel?
I didn't leave the republican party, it left me.
4,500 is nothing.. its all baked into that cake over there..
(that growing, massively large cake..)
Do not taunt the happy fun ball
PCA wins comment of the day with the poke at Kansas' flatness.
Why would anyone order a brand new plane when they can pick one up for nothing once global tourism tanks.
I bet most of the Emirates fleet goes up for sale in less than 4 years.
Who the F*$#k is going to visit Dubai now.
mock turtle,
Idiots like limbaugh have no idea of the shit storm headed their way, someone very smart once said "a country that can not help the many who are poor, can not save the few who are rich". They think dividing the country at a time like this is helpful to their cause. They are foolish
that within 9 months
the loud mouthed liars out there like oxy bimbaugh and brilloyellatya-really
and company
mock turtle | 01.09.09 - 2:32 pm | #
They're doing this now. Already.
Sheesh, try paying attention.
Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (CACC)
My thoughts about this...mmm not enough protien in milk add a chemical...aircraft to heavy remove 50% of the bolts...
Kansas - so flat you can look out and see the back of your head....
The end customers specify the engines to go on their own Boeing buys.
This makes Boeing more an installer of GE's own sale, not quite a customer/vendor relationship.
But what about that curvature of the earth thingy?
Popeye writes:
Mock,
Care for a martini
Is it lunch time again, Popeye?
Gubbmint Cheese
blew chunks!!!!
bgates writes:
"Seattle keeps getting less special every day."
i think you meant everett - and they moved HQ 5 or so years ago
bgates
No, I meant Seattle. Boeing is one of the pillars frequently cited as evidence that the Seattle metro area is immune from economic downturns "Special ™"
@Popeye
Your TA sucks. Early week good call more than canceled by yesterday. And you said you have to make you living trading. I'm fanning myself today with some of your money.
Energy-econ
I think you should stop holding your breath for a gas turn on today:
Sign-up
Boeing signs Chinese parts makers
JUNE 3, 2005
BEIJING: Boeing, the world's second-biggest maker of commercial aircraft, said Thursday that it signed contracts with Chinese aircraft parts makers valued at an estimated $600 million as part of its plan to cut production costs.
The agreements with four companies include the first firm contract with Chinese suppliers to make parts for the 787 jetliner, the company's first new model in 15 years, Boeing said in a statement issued in Beijing.
Boeing is trying to reduce costs to make its airplanes more competitively priced against Airbus, which surpassed Boeing as the top commercial plane maker by deliveries in 2003. More than 3,500 Boeing planes have major parts and assemblies made in China.
Boeing awarded contracts to Hafei Aviation Industry, an affiliate of China Aviation Industry Corp. II, Chengdu Aircraft industrial (Group), a unit of China Aviation Industry Corp. I, BHA Aero Composite Parts, a venture between Boeing, Hexcel and AVIC I, and Shenyang Aircraft.
Including Thursday's agreements, Boeing now has $1.6 billion current and future contracts with Chinese aircraft parts makers, said Starr Tavenner, the U.S. company's country team leader for commercial airplanes.
Search - Global Edition - The New York Times
Boeing is using the "economy" as the excuse in cutting jobs. They are offshoring jobs to China.
Liz ;p shhh.. don't tell anyone about that
We are going to go green by end of day.
"
Boeing is using the "economy" as the excuse in cutting jobs. They are offshoring jobs to China."
And to think that my first thought when this news hit the wire was to joke that when the workers were re-hired ability to speak Mandarin would be a requirement.
ok
so im a little tense
nervous
over reactive
uptight
where is CSC when we need him
mock,
actually I have no issue with you or your comments..it just seems that this whole repub, dem, liberal, cons.
is just nonsense when really it comes down to people right now need to unite not fight...
they want us to, it distracts us...I'm not smart as most people here and enjoy all the comments except when popeye starts drinking martinis...without them I dont his comments either...tolerent of others is going to be big reason we pull out of this...if we dont this destructive period in our country will be even uglier...
I wish you and your family the best and though a uber bear I wish that for all...
On the job training:
Jan. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Bank AGs co-head of global credit trading, Boaz Weinstein, is leaving Europes largest investment bank to set up his own hedge fund following trading losses in his group at the end of last year.
Your TA sucks. Early week good call more than canceled by yesterday. And you said you have to make you living trading. I'm fanning myself today with some of your money.
Guiseppe de Egypto | 01.09.09 - 2:43 pm | #
You do know you don't have to be right 100% of the time to make money trading, right?
There's only two types of people who win 100% of their trades: liars, and thieves.
Boeing's headache is Airbus, period.
Airbus competes at staggering losses with government subsidies that run huge.
No matter how low Boeing goes, they can't compete on price, France won't let them win that game.
The Chinese hook-ups are a back-scratching, log-rolling sales gambit, period, paragraph, FINIS.
mock turtle,
Maybe this will cheer you up.
mock turtle, you have the benefit of being right.
I said yesterday that MPinCO is no mp.
In fact, MPinCO is not fit to police up the dried up dog scrotums that litter Conjure Bag's lair.
Here is an interesting exercise for those interested. If you are searching for a credit union to put money they post their financials. The alarming thing is that they are hiding their mortgage portfolio losses.
Search a credit union near you and then look at the delinquent loans by collateral type.. you will find a big blacked out area next to 1st Mortgages Real Estate Loans
Options
My assumption is the blacked out area is being hidden for a reason..
I'm both a liar and thief. Where's my money? You're welcome to send me a check. I know you're good for it.
Yay, my industry (sort of), so finally I can contribute
Not surprising. North American airlines started cutting capacity last summer and the rest are slowly following their lead. Like everything else in this economy, aircraft became an asset bubble driven by:
1) Chinese and Indian demand
2) Middle Eastern governments dumping their petrodollars into their airlines to diversify their city-states (Emirates, Etihad etc)
3) The rising price of oil from 2003 forward allowed airlines to justify buying new aircraft as they were more fuel-efficient
4) Cheap credit. A North American airline that had filed for bankruptcy twice this decade was able to finance their aircraft at around L+140 bps.
The spike in oil earlier this year made airlines start cutting capacity. The Chinese and Indian airlines were counting on the middle class customers who just didn't show up when the ticket prices rose due to fuel, so they were forced to start deferring their orders. Hell, the Indian airlines didn't have cash to pay their fuel bills and the Chinese had to bailed out by the government.
Now with business travel and consumer demand falling globally, there will more order deferrals and cancellations. Overheard some rumours of an Asian airline saying their forward bookings are down 40% YoY.
I heard being a lineman for the county was a good job in Wichita.
Maybe this will cheer you up.
Anonymous
LOL!
mock turtle - Bad Day?
Barley
Looks like real info for a change. Refreshing. Nothing like data to define a discussion.
Mock,
Care for a martini ?
Popeye | 01.09.09 - 2:37 pm | #
Funny, Popeye!
i have a rule, no booze before noon
but the way things are going
i may succumb
thread music please
10 years after
id love to change the world
YouTube - Ten Years After - I'd Love To Change The World
Mock - good work. I share your indignation.
Guiseppe de Egypto,
I'm sorry you are disappointed. If you recall, I only posted my TA in response to a question from Gavshire.
He asked what would cause TA bulls to abandon their position. At the time, the spx was over 915. I said any print below 885.
When the spx dropped below 900 yesterday, I bought with a stop loss at 885.
I am not your investment adviser - nor have I received your subscription payment for my TA advice. Ergo, please don't place your bets on the basis of my advice.
i bet 100$ to my favorite charity boy and girl scouts of america..
against the first person who will take this on (and play by the same rules)
that within 9 months
the loud mouthed liars out there like oxy bimbaugh and brilloyellatya-really
and company
will be blaming this depression on obama...less than 9 months from now
Mock Turtle,
Thats sort of like looking for someone to bet against the sun rising in the east. 9 months, more likely 9 weeks, I'd say 9 days, but even they will have to wait until after the inaugration.
I didn't leave the republican party, it left me.
lawyerliz | 01.09.09 - 2:38 pm | #
Amen, Sister!
"They're doing this now. Already.
Sheesh, try paying attention.
Eric | 01.09.09 - 2:40 pm | # "
Talked ot my Dad, a hardcore conservative over the holidaze. He said he was reasonably please w/ Obama's moves so far (Gates, et al), and that it's probably be no worse and maybe better than McCain would've done.
Brings a new meaning to "Bleeding Kansas"
Thanks Boeing.
We are going to go green by end of day.
Barley
I've had the same though since this morning.
mock turtle,
Keep the faith. At least you know what is going on even if others don't.
But remember, it's all just a game. That's why I'm a sports fan. I enjoy the game.
Popeye | 01.09.09 - 2:43 pm | #
Hey thanks for the link - just been following this closely - my gut is the follow on effects of this ramp up in a non-linear fashion the longer it drags on...
Crewman - look at the lines below... they aren't hiding anything.
alybaba | 01.09.09 - 2:49 pm | - Thanks for that!
Question: I recall reading that (I am almost certian) India recently defaulted on some loans for planes. Was it India and which aircraft manufacturer?
Love Seattle..seen her in the best of times.
One hundred degree's, humidity higher than that, left the hills of my great state for The Alaskan Cruise and got to heaven that night with no Humiddiity and no need for a/c. Have taken the cruise several times and Seattle never fails me.
Squirrel on a stick with a side of government cheese and a beer!
I am getting so old now that my best memories now have grandchildren.
I guess the number of locomotives, turbines, and other such items made by GE will drop also. Heavy equipment, but everyone knew that.
Joe Stalin ,
Excuse my paranoia
So serious, popeye. All grain of salt here. I guess you can drop the messiah complex though.
"Your ability to forecast anything (in this new market with gov't intervention) is extremely limited"
Puzzles inside games inside board plays. Short term noise, long term trend.
Video - CNBC.com
Go Mock go...
ps. can i haaz martiny?
$684 Trillion They want to reduce risk - Translation: somebody big may be in trouble....they want you to be the buyer.
\t Anonymous | \t \t \t \t01.09.09 - 2:09 pm | #
At least 90 trillion is on JPM's sheet. They were supposed to be the smart strong bank. I bring this up every few weeks but no one ever wants to dig into it.
Serious Question:
Are FRE PF/PN backed by the Fed, if so how? Why the 17% haircut today?
I didn't leave the republican party, it left me.
lawyerliz | 01.09.09 - 2:38 pm | #
Me three!
Boy are the Daily Kos folks are nervous about the "messiah" already. Eight years of Bush bashing and now they get their turn.
Our "messiah" will be in charge soon (the demoKrat house having been in charge for two years already) and as the smartest guy in the world everything will be ok...FDR II...err, make that Jimmah II.
Don't you guys believe in president Zero?
IAM Tops Cave In to Boeing
5 December 2008
Strike Settlement Opens Door to Job Cuts
At the outset of the 57-day Boeing strike, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) District 751 president Tom Wroblewski declared: We certainly want to prevent them [Boeing] from bringing nonunion people into the factory. The 27,000 Boeing Machinists sure could have, but the union tops folded on the key issue of outsourcing and scuttled the walkout. After eight weeks of struggle and sacrifice, workers were handed a settlement that allows the aerospace giant to continue to contract out work as before and to give non-union suppliers access to the plants. While not a crushing defeat, the back-to-work deal was no victory either.
Strike Settlement Opens Door to Job Cuts
Reminiscent of Chrysler and the UAW in 1979
deflationary jane writes
ps. can i haaz martiny?
Party at my house.
Sum one likey oversized gimlet glass with long pour and extra, extra dry.
Olive brine, vodka, with a vodka sidecar followed by a vodka chaser. Like the vermouth off a finger tip.
Voila. Popeye noon martini. Update your Bartender's guide.
Now let's trade.
thanks to the following for feedback
and sorry for going denninger
reality is closing in
bgates
Barley
Comrade Byzantine Ruins
Popeye
Crewman
Eric
CD
Anonymous (which one ?)
Gary
Bob (esp thanks)
001 (could you introduce me to one of bonds lovely friends...maybe would help!
Dirk van Dijk
and last but not least
XXXXX
ok im leaving for the liquor store now its noon in the pacific north west
Thinking of you right now mock turtle. =)
Be Aware.
All this talk about drinking is making me thirsty.
Barley writes:
alybaba | 01.09.09 - 2:49 pm | - Thanks for that!
Question: I recall reading that (I am almost certian) India recently defaulted on some loans for planes. Was it India and which aircraft manufacturer?
Barley | 01.09.09 - 2:52 pm | #
I don't believe I've heard of a Purchase Agreement default, you might be referring to Kingfisher "defaulting" on an A320 lease from GE, though it was a dispute more than anything.
mock turtle - Why no go for a walk to the store. By the time you get there you will only buy 1/2 of what you think you need.
and last but not least
XXXXX
...
mock turtle | 01.09.09 - 3:00 pm | #
Uhh...what did I do?
saw a gal wearing a T-shirt with a map of Kansas on it, text said "Not everything in Kansas is flat"
s0mebody | 01.09.09 - 3:01 pm | #
These pretzels are making me thirsty!
Are FRE PF/PN backed by the Fed, if so how? Why the 17% haircut today?
Barley
Cash flow out of GSE's into Treasuries?
Barley
too far to walk
but good idea, ill pedal my bike the rain has stopped and its above 40
Comrade Byzantine Ruins
thanks, ill try, great tune
Uffish Thought(Unrated) writes:
\tsaw a gal wearing a T-shirt with a map of Kansas on it, text said "Not everything in Kansas is flat"
Uffish Thought | 01.09.09 - 3:04 pm | #
Being a country boy at heart, I've got a real soft spot (figuratively speaking
for country girls.
Carriers mull ways to trim excess flab
By Lu Haoting and Zhou Yan (China Daily)
Updated: 2008-12-13
Chinese airlines are still weighing the pros and cons of canceling or deferring taking delivery of new airplanes next year after the government on Tuesday asked them to strictly control capacity to maintain a balance between demand and supply.
"We will make final decisions in the first quarter of 2009 based on our load factor, " said Xu Junmin, board secretary of Shanghai Airlines.
China Southern Airlines, the country's largest airline by fleet numbers, made a similar comment, saying their plan of receiving new planes is going to be adjusted in accordance with the traffic demand.
The carrier has planned to receive 35 new jets for 2009, the majority of which are Airbus A320 and Boeing B737 single-aisle aircraft.
...Air China, the country's flagship carrier, said it would not change its plan to receive 23 A320 and B737 jets next year.
....Airbus and Boeing said on Friday that they had not received any requests from Chinese airlines to delay or cancel airplane orders.
Both companies declined to release their delivery schedules for China in 2009.
Chinese airlines made orders in the past two years based on an annual industry growth rate of 15 percent. Boeing's website showed China ordered 424 airplanes between 2005 and November 2008, and the company delivered 130 aircraft to China during the period.
Carriers mull ways to trim excess flab
I don't believe I've heard of a Purchase Agreement default, you might be referring to Kingfisher "defaulting" on an A320 lease from GE, though it was a dispute more than anything.
alybaba | 01.09.09 - 3:02 pm | #
Would be a shame if Kingfisher went under, better airline than anything I have flown on in the States
Are FRE PF/PN backed by the Fed, if so how? Why the 17% haircut today?
The mortgage complex is getting whacked because of the pending lien-stripping proposal. Citi's approval of the proposal was strictly as a servicer, but it would be the GSE and the bondholders would be holding the bag.
Rubin resigns from C
too far to walk
but good idea, ill pedal my bike the rain has stopped and its above
Theme music
YouTube - Jimmy Cliff - I can see clearly now
xxxxx wrote what did i do?
UH, I think you told the truth!
xxxxx writes:
"They're doing this now. Already."
Mock Turtle, Leftys is always open to serve your alcohol needs. Val-U-Rite is on sale, and no, we don't give change, you'd just lose it anyway.
Dirk van Dijk,
Don't worry. I also listened well to you. I'm trading short short short term.
Rubin is gonzo from Citi -- he has tendered his letter and simultaneously engaged council. he will be gathering his own war cabinet to include roommates Skilling and the Koz. Their contract with treasury will be pro bono on behalf of all Americans.
Cajun squirrel among crisp flavours tested by Walkers - Telegraph
Cajun squirrel among crisp flavours tested by Walkers
Crisps that taste of chilli and chocolate, onion bhaji and even Cajun squirrel will be unleashed on the public as part of a Walkers competition to find a new flavour.
(Squirrel California pizza?)
"immune from economic downturns "
king county's main economic role is as a safety valve for californian refugees. no one with any objectivity though that boeing and weyerhauser (and msft, for that matter) could be what they once were.
can it continue in that role despite less californian RE equity? we'll see.
Engaged counsel hunh???
Hopefully they will actually lay off workers at their Wichita, Kansas plant.
WTF is wrong with people in this country?
WTF is wrong with people in this country
Class warfare - it's making a comeback.
I was being ironic. Resign and lawyer up. OR does D7O cover his gross negligence
toobigtofail(Unrated) writes:
\txxxxx wrote what did i do?
UH, I think you told the truth!
xxxxx writes:
"They're doing this now. Already."
\t toobigtofail | \t \t \t \t01.09.09 - 3:08 pm | #
toobigtofail | 01.09.09 - 3:08 pm | #
Eric said that. I told an anecdote about my Dad who, though he's always been a conservative Republican, was sick and tired of GWB, and for the time being, mostly approves of what BHO has been doing vis a vis his cabinent choices and press announcements during the transition.
Speed: When did class warfare ever leave?
Barley writes:
I do hope the orders are firm and financed.
I'd say there are $300 billion of unfinanced deliveries in the next 2 years. The biggest players in financing these are the German Landesbanks, which I'm sure you've heard, are doing great. Another avenue (especially used in NA) was the EETC bond market, which is dead. Asian banks will still finance their core regional customers (i.e SIA, Cathay, Qantas, JAL, ANA etc), but the weaker European and American airlines will have trouble.
Expect Boeing and Airbus to try and get TARP type money to help finance all these aircraft - they don't have the balance sheet to do backstops on all of these deliveries. The EXIM Bank and other Export-Credit Agencies will have to step in to make up the shortfall somehow. If not, then you have a tons of whitetails (unfinanced aircraft sitting on the tarmac), which will on worsen the slide in aircraft values, eroding equity on balance sheets of airlines and leasing companies.
Yes, deflation.
D70?
FFDIC(Unrated) writes:
\thttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/fooda...by- Walkers.html
Cajun squirrel among crisp flavours tested by Walkers
Crisps that taste of chilli and chocolate, onion bhaji and even Cajun squirrel will be unleashed on the public as part of a Walkers competition to find a new flavour.
(Squirrel California pizza?)
\t FFDIC | \t \t \t \t01.09.09 - 3:11 pm | #
FFDIC | 01.09.09 - 3:11 pm | #
Would be good in chilli as well-
If I have no class, do I have to fight?
Mock,
I share your indigestion. Who can stomach all this ideologically driven crap pretending to be analysis or at least informed opinion.
Mike2,
Here in Portland we are about to discover we are no longer "Special " in terms of immunity from the macro-economic fall out. But we are still Special , just less cash flowing to stay Special .
I work in development review in the public sector and also teach part-time at the local public university.
Leading economic indicator data from both sources is just gruesome. Things really turned in October and December is ugly and the 1Q is gonna be so fugly that layoffs before the end of the fiscal year (July '09) are on there way.
I suspect this recession is really going to reduce the middle class and we are going to see a much wider division between top and bottom. Ironically then, 8 plus years of neoconservative economics and policy will further entrench wealth and make a meaningful government response to the situation difficult if not meaningless.
Oh yeah, and there is still that two front war thingy.
Unfortunately the blathering class of neocon - far right idiots will just further their efforts at class and race division and cultivating false consciousness amongst the vulnerable and clueless.
Building airplanes is extremely resource intensive and sensitive to economic instability. We can be pissed all we want about AirBus, but there is something to be said for socializing some industries if one believes in stable middle class being necessary for a democratic and just world in the long term while ensuring the needs of capitalism are met.
Rubin resigns from Ford Board
Citigroup's Rubin resigns from Ford board of directors - MarketWatch
Dry Marti Recipe:
Place 7 ounces of Gin with ice in shaker. Pour one ounce Vermouth in shot glass. Place 2 olives in a chilled martini glass. Take shot of Vermouth, breathe on Martini Glass, pour Gin, and enjoy.
"Lets not get into an argument over who killed who".
Even sports message boards are awash with smart talk about the economic crisis: PhilaPhans Message Boards
Speed(Unrated) writes:
\tWTF is wrong with people in this country
Class warfare - it's making a comeback.
\t Speed | \t \t \t \t01.09.09 - 3:13 pm | #
Speed | 01.09.09 - 3:13 pm | #
Did it ever really go away?
i bet 100$ to my favorite charity boy and girl scouts of america..
Is this a joke? Are the Scouts really your favorite charity? If so, you are concerned about wingnuts blaming Obama for the potential Depression to come?
This really is upside down world.
Obama will be to blame for the Depression, he will do his part, every bit as much as the Bipartisan Consensus that's been in place for over 30 years now. The Bipartisan Consensus doesn't represent the Plebes....it's a tool of the Plutocracy, so this partisan bickering by the Plebes is comical.
D70 -> D&O -> Directors and officers insurance.
Is C the location du jour for the pizza guys tonight? Wouldn't that be something to behold.
rps writes:
Boeing cutting jobs doesn't pass the smell test considering the majority of its' contracts are with the Defense Department and Homeland Security.
The 4,500 jobs are from the commercial aircraft portion of the company.
Ahhh, and the insurers are reviewing their policies to see what will enable them to best deny liability.
xxxx: See, its not class warfare whenever multinational corporations outsource American jobs and then insource illegal labor for the things that can't be outsourced...
AOP = ASO
Whatever shitbag. You want to make a fried chicken and collard greens joke about Obama, and had to hide behind Fuzzy Zoeller to do it.
You are a worthless sack, a dishonest hack, and a coward to boot.
And I'm off to the gym.
After bashing Bush, I will say that I think Pelosi and Reid need to grow a pair. Or they need to be replaced by someone with a spine. Their favorite hobby is caving.
Or maybe "Bush bashing" was simply political pandering, and "caving" is simply their true colors.
It's difficult to be too cynical about politicians at the state and national levels.
FFDIC writes:
The Palestine Herald, Palestine, Texas - Homepage h..._007091012.html
No comparison between now and Great Depression
(My 83 y.o. mother mailed a hard copy of this from their local newspaper -Palestine Herald Press - since she doesn't use email.)
Yeah now we have those programs in name only. Little comfort. JAs is right biorn and bred dopes
Show me some more tooth here. This is crap. This is a boxer who gets out there and clinches after the first exchange.
I know. I'm trying to be civil. Really, I am.
So far, I'm a douchebag and a scumbag...I'm sure there's more. Do you like my Cauliflower Ears?
I be a gubmint worker in the PNW (at a university which just cut its 103 yr old football program to stop some budgetary bleeding).
I'm a 4th generation Seattleite, recently relocated up I-5 to Bellingham.
Lets just say being of solid blue-collar genestock, I've seen a lot of trouble here, as have my parents, grandparents & great-grandparents.
This feels ickier (that's a technical term).
Co-workers near retirement have lost 36% of their state-run funds in the past year. Admin is talking pay cuts, unpaid days off, department closures, and unions be damned.
Now we have damages & clean-up from these gawd-awful storms, job cuts, a major (though ailing) newspaper closing, etc and so forth.
So happy I moved to rural Whatcom county to do my self-retraining as a farmer. I always plan for the worst, I just never thought it would come about in my lifetime.
Anyone have a link to the earlier post where "Morocco Bama" signed his post with "Jas", strongly suggesting that Morocco and Jas are the same poster?
why are they crucifying this lennar guy?
ew thread up, dopes
Gary(Unrated) writes:
Whatever shitbag.
dryfly,
"they'll be reliving the nightmare the home builders experienced but with REALLY expensive assets]."
Those aren't assets, those are sunk costs.
If they don't want to store 'em, they'll sell cheap. I'm getting an ap in for a 767...not to be too greedy ya know.
Nostrovia,
Has this turned into an afternoon of "As the CR turns"?
What a soap opera today.
And I'm off to the gym.
Gary | 01.09.09 - 3:39 pm | #
After beers in the morning? Wow, some of you folks lead interesting lives. Too many beers and then off to the gym. Okay.
Gary(Unrated) writes:
Whatever shitbag.
Where'd my comment go!
Anyway!
Too profane! Keep it worth getting knifed over, guys. No barroom call-outs.
This is for the ages, don't bore the anthropologists making their careers out of reading this in 2040.
Joanna,
It sux to be a farmer; but it's the greatest lifestyle available on this earth.
Born and raised in Iowa.
I want to know what Gary has against people with colostomies.
Okay, I want to see a clean break and transition to the next thread. I want swords or at a minimum broken bottles and chains, none of this eye gouging crap.
People are here to see some swordsmanship, it doesn't look good if it's just two guys rolling around on the sand.
I would suggest, for our entertainment's sake, you guys visit Medieval Weaponry and Things first, then come back and fight.
Boeing is using the "economy" as the excuse in cutting jobs. They are offshoring jobs to China.
rps | 01.09.09 - 2:44 pm | #
It's both.
They are also punishing the union - look for give backs when this gets real ugly. For aero it's just starting.
I feel a draft. Would someone shut the door?
i have a rule, no booze before noon
mock turtle | 01.09.09 - 2:50 pm | #
It's always noon somewhere - drink up.
Morocco Obama:
Out of curiosity, what's the problem with the scouts?
the stuff with homosexuality?
Or something else?
FWIW - the BSA made its bed re funding with the stance on no homosexuality and is finding that it really is financially on its own. Many United Way chapters will no longer support and it's up to themselves for money. We'll see where the chips finally fall...
"I feel a draft. Would someone shut the door?"
Sorry, must have been the beans I had for lunch.
For the old-timers hanging here and swordsmanship; "He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day." Ronald Coleman, The Prisoner of Zenda
The 6% will come from primarily contractors and temp workers, then those with the least seniority. Managers apparently will be able to "protect" 5% of their staff from layoffs, so potentially some new people might be spared.
Word on the street is that the legacy aircraft business is the problem and that's where most of the cuts are likely to be felt, with retained people being moved to other newer aircraft.
Word on the street is that the legacy aircraft business is the problem and that's where most of the cuts are likely to be felt, with retained people being moved to other newer aircraft.
J.Goodwin | 01.09.09 - 3:51 pm | #
Well, that's only if they get their act together on the 787 rather quickly before they start seeing those order being cancelled too. I'm sure you had airlines and leasing companies speculating on delivery slots, hoping to sell them above market.
Hell there's an entire leasing company (LCAL) who's entire portfolio was supposed to be 787s.
CR said: "...The bad employment news just keeps coming."
Actually, it looks like there might be a glimmer of light. If I've got my data right, the number of jobs (SA total non-farm payrolls) lost in December was actually lower than the number in November.
Working backwards, that month-over-month event occurred at the exact end of the 2001 recession, 1 month before the 1990-'91 recession, 3 months before the end of the 1982 recession, 1 month before the end of the 1980 recession, and 2 months before the end of the '74-'75 recession.
Sebastia
who's = whose
Homedad43 writes:
Morocco Obama:
Out of curiosity, what's the problem with the scouts?
I answered that question already, but obviously you wanted to erect a Strawman.
It's an Indoctrination program that engenders Patriotism and Jingoism.....just as the Nazi Youth did.
The center did not hold.
Thanks for the links, Mock @ 2:13 - I hear that crap constantly out of my rightwing koolaid drinking friends and coworkers. Nice to have ammunition, not that it penetrates the firewall when I use it.
Comrade Misean is Dope writes:
I'm getting an ap in for a 767...not to be too greedy ya know.
I know you're making a joke there, but if you were to buy a 767, you might get the last off the line! That series is at end-of-production barring the tanker contract. (Unless that has fallen through... again)
Interesting history of design on the 767, if people are into these kind of thing. Twin-engine over-water licensing, originally designed with two different cockpits (2 or 3 crew) based on what were pending changes to regulations. Boeing took and mitigated some risks.
I actually think the whole homosexual issue with the Boyscouts is comical. Think of how many Log Cabin Republicans that organization has produced. The hypocricy.
dryfly- Yeah, maybe unions are a bad thing in this era, but we still need to keep jobs in the US. No jobs = no money = no business = no economy.
DukDKKDkuD | 01.09.09 - 3:39 pm | #
Unions are only as bad as the management that 'created them'... companies get the unions they deserve. Boeing earned theirs.
Those aren't assets, those are sunk costs.
Comrade Misean is Dope | 01.09.09 - 3:42 pm | #
Too true - my bad.
I went to the Seattle PI website to read about the Boeing layoffs... only to read that the Seattle PI put itself up for sale today.
Either it changes ownership (Hearst)... or they stop the presses for good: For sale: The P-I
First WaMu... then Boeing... now the PI. It's a good thing we're cut off from the rest of the country and no one can actually leave.
mock turtle writes:
black star ranch
MPinCO
and all the rest who want to say their aint no difference between bush and clinton and this hole mess can be blames on "everybody", i call bs
here are the facts
. . .
the clinton administration was the first administration since carter to bring the federal budget into surplus and they did it two years in a row
A surplus built on a . . . bubble. Which by the way initiated a recession, aggrevated by 9/11. Solution? Another bubble! Kick the can down the road.
Flashback - Feb of 1999:
TIME Magazine Cover: Rubin, Greenspan & Summers - Feb. 15, 1999 - Business - Finance - Politics
Now ask yourself, what was the meaning of "So Far"?
Gary writes:
mock turtle, you have the benefit of being right.
I said yesterday that MPinCO is no mp.
In fact, MPinCO is not fit to police up the dried up dog scrotums that litter Conjure Bag's lair.
And people wonder why our political elite look down on the unwashed masses.
Keep your head stuck in the sand. Let me know when we hit $20 Trillion.
Boeing to Cut 4,500 Jobs
Those workers responsible for having a major component fall off or fail in flight will be let go first.
Got peak civilization?
actually think the whole homosexual issue with the Boyscouts is comical. Think of how many Log Cabin Republicans that organization has produced. The hypocricy.
Morocco Bama | 01.09.09 - 3:59 pm | #
Much depends on the individual scout leader in terms of what a Troop is like. Had 2 in my scouting carrer, 1st was lots of fun, bunch fo guys going camping and stuff, some silly songs and skits etc. The 2 wanted it to be the Jr. Marines, could stand it then. Left as a Star scout. All that said, I think the scouts do some good work, and it is a tradgedy that they screw it up with their asinine stance on Gays.
Many United Way chapters will no longer support and it's up to themselves for money. We'll see where the chips finally fall...
Homedad43 | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 3:49 pm | #
My worry would be that with the loss of funding from more moderate sources, that the Scouts will transiton into something worse, like the KKK for Kids!
don't expect recovery for Boeing to ever fully recover because its #1 market - China - is developing its own jets with production expected in 12-10 years. As Boeing is often the number 1 exporter for the US, this is bad news.
China - is developing its own jets with production expected in 12-10 years.
Sinomania! | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 4:47 pm | #
Some technologies take an unusual amount of time and expetise to perfect. Aircraft manufactuing would be at the top of that list from my perspective. I deal with Chinese manufactured goods on a regular basis, but I do not think I would bet my life on that quality just yet.
A surplus built on a . . . bubble.
MPinCO | 01.09.09 - 4:20 pm | #
If the Clinton admin was responsible for the Naz bubble, why would it not be the Bush admin that is responsible for the current one? In my opinion, the Naz bubble may not have been as bubbly if Bush had not saved Microsoft from break-up. That monopoly has a stiffling effect on many markets and inhibits innovation.
The world would be a better place if the 800 lb tech gorilla was a couple of 400 lb instead.
B_R, good color commentary.
I have chosen the most appropriate weapon for a battle in this forum:
WWW.SILVERDRAGONSTUDIO.NET - D20 Flails
En garde!
ssomebody needs work --what a pic picture worth a thousand words - shipping - StockTock Social
Byzantine - you crack me up!
Morroce Bama - Gary may have over-reacted, but his point is well taken. The Fuzzy Zoeller clip was in poor taste, as was the comment when Fuzzy made it.
Blackhalo writes:
A surplus built on a . . . bubble.
MPinCO | 01.09.09 - 4:20 pm | #
If the Clinton admin was responsible for the Naz bubble, why would it not be the Bush admin that is responsible for the current one?
My point was that the budget was balanced on record capital gains receipts enabled by the stock market bubble. As soon as the bubble burst the deficit went negative. Looks good on the news but under the covers the can was kicked down the road as bubbles are not sustainable. Why was the headlines in 1999 - Global Economic Meldown prevented - "So Far"?
At a high level my point, that seems to have ruffled some Obamania feathers, is that we continue to kick the can down the road and recycle the same economic thought. Rubin, Summers, Greenspan, Bernanke, back to Summers, Rubin. We've gone exponential on spending and even economist seem to think none of this will have consequences. The more deficit spending Obama throws at the economy the less people will spend.
dang, looks as if there is No end in sight
I guess the party aint going to end til someone dances with the ugly girl.
Put me down in the "it's everybody's fault, but the Republicans more so, and Bush even more so" camp.
FWIW, the right-wing pundits these days they're saying the current crisis was caused by "the government forcing the banks to make risky loans." That's a verbatim quote from Hannity's show yesterday. Seriously.
......if "easy" private money got us into this mess, how is "easy" public money going to help?
Hannity needs a good old-fashioned horse whippi
deflationary jane
evodevo
thanx
001
can i wield the whip? please
Boeing is one of many that laid off thousands this week. Alcoa dumped 15k, Freightliner cut 2100 today, along with Bechtel's 330, Optisolar 300, Beechcraft 1600, Penloyd 300 and that's just today. If you want to see a rundown of the carnage, take a look at The Layoff List
Reference for over $500 Trillion in Derivatives (Directly from the Bond King, Bill Gross)
Pyramids Crumbling
\t\t
PIMCO - Investment Outlook- January 2008 "Pyramids Crumbling"
"According to the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), CDS totaling $43 trillion were outstanding at year end 2007, more than half the size of the entire asset base of the global banking system. Total derivatives amount to over $500 trillion, many of them finding their way onto the balance sheets of SIVs, CDOs and other conduits of their ilk comprising the Frankensteinian levered body of shadow banks."
Good article if you are interested in such things. Buffet also called derivatives "Weapons of mass financial destruction".
Terminat hora diem; terminat auctor opus.
talking to a major systems developer from Finland the other day... this might be Rob Dawg's area of expertise but he told me Boeing has this system that remotely takes over control of cockpit and is able to land a plane... essentially it's to safeguard against a 9/11 scenario but he thinks it's more of national security weapon to be used in special cases...
thanks for comments... it's a perfect full moon here and about 70 degrees... time for a cocktail, pardon me!
Mark writes:
Hopefully they will actually lay off workers at their Wichita, Kansas plant.
The 4,500 will be mainly in Washington as this action is specific to the commercial aircraft portion of the company.
"The 4,500 will be mainly in Washington as this action is specific to the commercial aircraft portion of the company."
Maybe they can get jobs at M$ tossing crates of unused and unwanted FISTA dvd's into the bin.
Prolly part time work though.
Nostrovia,
Obama mother-in-law to join family in White House
Sympathy or schadenfreude, as appropriate.
Great Depression jobs parallel may not be far flung
| Reuters
Great Depression jobs parallel may not be far flung
trotskylives writes:
Boy are the Daily Kos folks are nervous about the "messiah" already. Eight years of Bush bashing and now they get their turn.
I doubt Obama can accomplish all the things Dubya did. Let's count them:
1. Ignore intel about imminent al queda attack
2. Read 'my pet goat' during the attack.
3. Appoint the worst secretary of DoD ever.
4. Out one of our own CIA agents
5. Manipulate intel to invade a country
6. Invade a country on bogus data
7. Declare victory 2 months later
8. Botch so-called victory and continue occupation for another 6 years and counting.
9. Turn the SEC into a joke
10. Allow an historical city to drown
11. Let the country fall into a depression.
Barley - some are suggesting the resignation from Ford is to pave the way for increased Citi exposure.. something large scale? Rumors of Ford going private.. etc
c is cooked= time to retest lows
I'm looking forward to the "purple grapes of wrath" presidency. In other words, Color Purple meets Tom Joad.
Yeah I'm bad, but I'm still here all week.
Beer recipe= Pull tab enjoy, repeat. No mixing required.
Baca -
Morocco Bama, you've got my ever-shifting vote for biggest douchebag on the blog today. Congrats!
The award comes in the shape of a Golden Cheeto.
Would be good in chilli as well-
xxxxx | 01.09.09 - 3:15 pm | #
Can't make Brunswick Stew without squirrel.
Oops - Forgot to include the word "again".
IMO, Rubin's resignation from C is basically to clear baggage prior to Geithner's nomination hearing next week.
Guiseppe de Egypto writes:
I'm looking forward to the "purple grapes of wrath" presidency. In other words, Color Purple meets Tom Joad.
Yeah I'm bad, but I'm still here all week.
Well, if you limit it to this week, I can probably tolerate it.
13 to busy greasing the wheels Didn't see it coming.
SRS picked up some buyers today...
hmmmm...
opex week gonna be interesting...
bush and cheney my men he he he
If you want to know what's for dinner at the Innauguration, ask Fuzzy Zoeller.
YouTube - Fuzzy Zoeller to Tiger Woods - fried chicken/collard greens
After bashing Bush, I will say that I think Pelosi and Reid need to grow a pair. Or they need to be replaced by someone with a spine. Their favorite hobby is caving.
maria b really needs to hit the stairmaster
Did anyone else notice the "downward facing dog" pattern in the Dow today?
This Boeing business is bad news. Clearly, if we had just cut taxes more for the wealthiest American Patriots, and removed any remaining Wall St. regulation, the Obama Depression could have been avoided.
Citi never sleeps...
Robert Rubin to Resign from Citigroup
Must not enjoy Cram downs anymore
After bashing Bush, I will say that I think Pelosi and Reid need to grow a pair. Or they need to be replaced by someone with a spine. Their favorite hobby is caving.
Or maybe "Bush bashing" was simply political pandering, and "caving" is simply their true colors.
You can any color you'd like, as long as it's black.
Cramdowns also mean that homeowners lose their equity when the principle gets cut - right ?
look at srs go
Morocco Bama | 01.09.09 - 3:26 pm | #
Quite a post from the scumbag who was whining about a non-existant "race card" being played against him what? Two days ago?
You are a piece of shit.
citizen energyecon writes:
Obama mother-in-law to join family in White House
I thought of a funny commback. But, yu'all might take it the wrong way
I'm sorry, Mr Proud Democrat, Gary, I didn't know you were a Boy Scout.
This is wacky. Barry Minkow of Zzzz Best Carpet Cleaning fame is now running the Fraud Discovery Institute.
The page cannot be found
Lennar Falls 20% as Minkow Alleges Venture ‘Scheme’ (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
Funded by Michael Milken, hero of the 21'st Century?
Are treasuries rallying today because taxpayers, who supposedly back the national debt, are losing their jobs? If so, it makes perfect sense to me.
Morocco Bama writes:
mock wrote
i bet 100$ to my favorite charity boy and girl scouts of america..
Morocco wrote
Is this a joke? Are the Scouts really your favorite charity? If so, you are concerned about wingnuts blaming Obama for the potential Depression to come?
Quite a post from the scumbag who was whining about a non-existant "race card" being played against him what? Two days ago?
You really do lack an intellect.
Anonymous writes:
look at srs go
TLT look nervous too.
Baca - His family mission was to raise oil prices. This he did in some apdes. Give him some credit.
Find out, take the bait, I mean bet.
Trying to deliver pizza to z corner, no picky uppy, no findy z corner..expoundy peez.
Wrong post. Though I was a Boy Scout many years ago.
Can't they just send those jobs to China instead?
Hopefully they will actually lay off workers at their Wichita, Kansas plant. That place seems to escape layoffs and people get paid $80,000/year there to push a button--a lot like the automakers.
Mark | 01.09.09 - 2:07 pm | #
Most of their button pushers in Wichita are with Spirit - their spin off company. They spun them off similar to what GM did with Delphi and Ford did with Visteon. The bulk Boeing's remaining workforce in Wichita is in their defense group and if on the commercial side in 'engineering & support'.
AP'Shadow - lol!
My bad. Tyipnig is auful toda
LTL come to Papa...
Is everyone drinking martinis today or what ?
wow...
Though I was a Boy Scout many years ago.
Gary | 01.09.09 - 3:33 pm | #
Kinda like Ratzinger was a Nazi Youth. Indoctrination's grand.
Morocco Bama(Excellent) writes:
You really do lack an intellect.
Show me some more tooth here. This is crap. This is a boxer who gets out there and clinches after the first exchange.
Break up the hug, I want to see some hands moving here, there scorecard doesn't fill itself up.
OT
chill bear if your out there,
looking at OBeach right now
and it's quiet on wind front and going off..good week for swell ahead...see ya in water...
The Palestine Herald, Palestine, Texas - No comparison between now and Great Depression
No comparison between now and Great Depression
(My 83 y.o. mother mailed a hard copy of this from their local newspaper -Palestine Herald Press - since she doesn't use email.)
Interesting Times writes:
Is everyone drinking martinis today or what?
Just paid my AA dues; so, it's not me.
"Give him some credit."
yup, xom from '02 to '07 would have made herbert walker proud. well put.
BFF (Bank Failure Friday) replaced by AOP (Afternoon Soap Opera)
Also the 53% decrease in orders is a lot like the auto makers. Still, the stock will probably go up with the news that they are cutting costs.
God Shammgod | 01.09.09 - 2:10 pm | #
Their new order flow is probably worse than that. It's their BACKLOG that has fallen 50 plus percent. A very big and troubling distinction... and we aren't even talking 'white tails' yet [planes that were built but where the carrier backs out and the plane hasn't been sold yet hence no paint on the tail... they'll be reliving the nightmare the home builders experienced but with REALLY expensive assets].
dryfly- Yeah, maybe unions are a bad thing in this era, but we still need to keep jobs in the US. No jobs = no money = no business = no economy.