NZ Sees Bright Future with Major Offshore Oil Finds "Confirmation of large oil fields in the offshore waters of New Zealand could provide a step change in national income for the country, an energy briefing to the new Minister of Energy and Resources Gerry Brownlee says.
The Vote Energy briefing from the Ministry of Economic Development made public by Brownlee, says there are potentially several 1-10 billion barrel oil fields in the Great South Basin alone.
Any discoveries would perhaps allow New Zealand to follow in the economic footsteps of Norway and emerge as a serious source of energy for the world, the briefing says."
Very interesting...a Norway-size producer would have significant impact on the global market...
merrill's position in this crisis is now returning to its rightful place. front and center...merrill lost 80bln dollars in one year (16 months actually)...and they still found the money to pay out billions in bonuses for 2008...a month earlier than usual..right before the merger..this is trouble...thain will be down in dc soon and he will have to explain some very unpleasant facts...merrill's collapse dwarfs that of lehmans and bears...yet somehow they have avoided the spotlight for the past few months..not any more...merrill's 80bln loss is the most egregious of all the bank losses...by far..and it should pay the piper..
I remember talking to a BoA employee this past fall who was griping about the stock price in the high $20s. Apparently, the market was overreacting at that time.
"Merrill, meanwhile, decided to move up its year-end bonuses, doling out cash just days before it was officially acquired by Bank of America, it was reported earlier Thursday."
Um, that would be OUR TARP money. Heck of a job Hankie!
Well back to wait and see if I am going to get laid off. No cover for my ass.
One of the most interesting sites I have ever seen. Just put your mouse on a city and the newspaper headlines pop up... Double click and the page opens in new window....
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - we need accountability. The health of the market is based on confidence - the public looting must stop! I fear, however, that it will only get worse.
"People at Bank of America say they discovered that Merrill's financial condition deteriorated significantly sometime in mid- to late December"
Just let the banks spiral down, let the FDIC swoop in on their Friday evening takeovers, and do a real RTC on everything (including the bad debts). Business can continue as the FDIC runs the banks for a while, the best run banks will be rewarded by not failing (a novel approach to determining winners), and taxpayers will be on the hook for hundreds of billions (trillions?)...but if the taxpayer is going to take the hit, sooner is better than later.
- TG'sM
Green Acres is the place to be...farm living is the life for me..
Zsa Zsa Furious With MadoffFraudulent investor Bernie Madoff may have made his worst enemy of all when he stiffed screen legend Zsa Zsa Gabor in his $50 billion 'Ponzi' scam.
The National Enquirer is reporting in its new issue that the 91 year-old Gabor and her husband, 65 year-old Prince Frederic Von Anhalt, have lost a fortune.
"We're mad as hell and we want our money back!" said Prince Frederic. "We might be forced to sell our Bel-Air home, cars, artwork and even our jewelry because of this sick man."
He added:
"This scam artist should be dragged through the streets and flogged!"
Zsa Zsa is said to be understandably heartbroken over the loss, which amounts to roughly $4.5 million.
"I feel really bad, because Zsa Zsa shouldn't have to worry about the financial mess I've gotten us into," says Frederic. "We are taking legal action to recoup some of the money.
"I'm going to have to make back that money somehow or we're going to face financial ruin."
Obama has a chance to send a message right away. He should go after all the bonus money and send those people to jail. I heard Gitmo might be available.
Elvis writes:
Obama has a chance to send a message right away. He should go after all the bonus money and send those people to jail. I heard Gitmo might be available.
Elvis | 01.22.09 - 12:41 pm | #
(1) If they do this in full public view, imagine what they do behind public view.
(2) If they do this in public view and the public is complacent, how do you refute Jas?
I got a laugh out of CNBC's Gasparino running down the list of Thain's office furniture esp. when he got the the 35K commode! Guess he thought it was an old fashioned word for toilet... I believe that piece of furniture came out of the reign of Louis XIVth or XVI...
It's my understanding that in bankruptcy the court can nullify transactions occurring within 90 days of the bankruptcy.
Can't the Federal Govt force Merrill into BK? They are a large creditor. Get the money back. Who deserves large bonuses when a company is losing that much money. Even more interesting, the company wouldn't have lost much money if it wasn't for the bonuses themselves.
Just let the banks spiral down, let the FDIC swoop in on their Friday evening takeovers, and do a real RTC on everything (including the bad debts). Business can continue as the FDIC runs the banks for a while, the best run banks will be rewarded by not failing (a novel approach to determining winners), and taxpayers will be on the hook for hundreds of billions (trillions?)...but if the taxpayer is going to take the hit, sooner is better than later. Tim Geithner's Mom | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 12:34 pm | #
Do you always do your son's homework for him or what? Maybe that's why he's never learned to be responsible and get things in on time or correct.
OT but sort of linked to Maxx's petshopboys rock blogging:
There was a youtube video a while back that featured a bunch of suits waiting in front of building for day hires. A truck takes a few, a cpa, a programmer etc. Anyone have the link floating around?
Let's see - is there enough room at Gitmo for all the exec's and board members of BearSterns, Lehman, Wachovia, AIG, MerrilLynch, Citi, BofA, WaMu, Countrywide, etc??
Maybe not, but let's have fun finding out . . . . .
The logical extension of a system that does not penalize these crooks is for them lose their lives by vigilantes. This is becoming third world corruption and it will only be a matter of time before some group starts killing these people.
Johnny Thain, is a banker up in New York (clap clap clap)
You know he knows just exactly what the facts is
He ain't gonna have to go face the justice
He makes his living stealing other peoples taxes.
does anyone know if there's a "Bankster's Paradise" spoof of Coolio's "Gangster's Paradise"? I know Weird Al has the Amish one, but I could have sworn that there was one with bankers.
Area Rug $87,784
Mahogany Pedestal Table $25,713
19th Century Credenza $68,179
Pendant Light Furniture $19,751
4 Pairs of Curtains $28,091
Pair of Guest Chairs $87,784
George IV Chair $18,468
6 Wall Sconces $2,741
Parchment Waste Can $1,405
Roman Shade Fabric $10,967
Roman Shades $7,315
Coffee Table $5,852
Commode on Legs $35,115
Restore faith and confidence back to the system. Some legal maneuverings must be done here to reverse this loot and punish these parasites. Stories like these are like daggers to the heart and hammers to the mind. But don't let the few bad apples ruin the country.
now we're talking! ken lewis in orange jammies in the chain-link rec yard - THAT would show the world that the USA has really come back to its senses and is once again the shining city on a hill.
The silver lining for me is seeing Congress get effed. Funding the bailout without any restrictions then being 'surprised' when the money is used for bonuses and the like. Think about that...legislators who spend days on minute details on legislation pretending to be upset when funds are misappropriated. They're a joke.
Wow, what a blowoff we are headed to. These are not nickel and dime assholes, these people are world class. The script says when you get big time fraud like this - the explosion is sure to be spectacular.
This is pretty egregious, but from what I understand, if you saw the structure and stock strike price of the bonuses, you'd find that they're mostly pretty much worthless paper, and there's no real cash being run off with. They're mostly an illusion, kind of like ML being a going concern when BAC acquired it was an illusion.
In the House, Republicans hold 178 seats, meaning they need a net gain of 40 seats to take back majority control. In the Senate, Republicans hold just 41 of the 100 seats.
If that weren't daunting enough, the public gives especially harsh marks to congressional Republicans.
Their job approval rating is 25 percent -- the lowest recorded by the Gallup polling agency. That's lower even than Bush's. His approval was 29 percent in the Gallup poll released Dec. 16. If there was any good news for Republicans in the poll, it would be the public only gives congressional Democrats a 37 percent approval rating.
Wow, what a blowoff we are headed to. These are not nickel and dime assholes, these people are world class. The script says when you get big time fraud like this - the explosion is sure to be spectacular. nova | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 1:07 pm | #
In the House, Republicans hold 178 seats, meaning they need a net gain of 40 seats to take back majority control. In the Senate, Republicans hold just 41 of the 100 seats. If that weren't daunting enough, the public gives especially harsh marks to congressional Republicans. Their job approval rating is 25 percent -- the lowest recorded by the Gallup polling agency. That's lower even than Bush's. His approval was 29 percent in the Gallup poll released Dec. 16. If there was any good news for Republicans in the poll, it would be the public only gives congressional Democrats a 37 percent approval rating. Anonymous | 01.22.09 - 1:10 pm | #
'The Gnomes of Zürich are one of the secret societies playable in Illuminati and Illuminati: New World Order, both by Steve Jackson Games. The Gnome of Zurich is also a character in the Infocom computer game Zork II.
DB "and i don't think you can libel a public figure...so bring it on..."
yes you can but under the Sullivan v. NY Times '63 Supreme's ruling not only does the plaintiff must prove the facts you used were wrong but that you knew it and published them anyway, that is with malicious intent to damage said plaintiff
and if you hear that 'we need to pay to attract top talent....', remember that not only are these top talent people incompetent, but there are far more talented people who will never get a chance to interview because they are not in the Wall St social circle. People who work for less than a $million a year who would out-think Wall St's finest.
"Rapacious Greed Reveals Banking's Global Confidence Scheme"
The banks simply devised one scheme after another to tighten their stranglehold over every single financial transaction made. The banks made it increasingly impossible for anyone to escape their clutches or for anyone to avoid using them for even the pettiest of financial transactions. The beauty of that was that the banks could increasingly justify taking a cut of every transaction they were involved in. Their 'cut' became larger and larger as they discovered they could push the limits of credulity beyond their wildest dreams of greed.
Does anyone think that perhaps the citizenry has transcended surprise and achieved not just acceptance but even expectation of this sort of behavior?
This stuff happens constantly and nobody ever seems to really care because it doesn't really affect them immediately and painfully.
Want to see an uproar about the TARP? Start sending households "draft notices" - i.e. their bank accounts are going to be drafted into paying for this with an explicit amount owed included. Then you'll see some outrage.
I wonder if it would be more effective to write the committee or my own congresscritter (who happens to be reasonably good).
Depends. If your district is humongous, then your voice might get drowned in the din. One thing you can do is pick on the Committee members from BFE districts/states.
A well crafted M&A agreement has brakes that control expenses and prevent the target company from paying out management bonuses on eve of closing. Its possible BoA attorneys were told to back off, but this reflects very poorly negotiated/drafted deal. No doubt all involved will claim hurried pressure, but I would be ashamed to have represented the buyer with this result.
Reposted from prior thread b/c it's actually topical on this thread:
Gary writes:
Thain spent over a million redecorating his office! HE was scapegoated? He's an out-of-touch IDIOT!
Black Star Ranch | 01.22.09 - 12:18 pm | #
While that's a headline grabber (and your assessment is correct) I think the bigger issue was the bonuses.
Moving the bonus distribution up a month is highly fishy. I can guaran-damn-tee that lawyers like myself will soon be poring over ML emails and recorded lines.
Gary | 01.22.09 - 1:18 pm | #
The house you paid too much for is now 50% off. You are effectively bankrupt.
The bankers who originated your loan are millionaires and continue to pay themselves more millions with your tax money, that you will be required to pay back, with interest, even as the banks themselves are bankrupt.
The bankers' greed and lack of accountability caused them to hand out billions to people with little income, no assets, and bad credit. You will be required to pay for their mistakes also, with interest.
And if you haven't lost your job yet, you very well may - and soon - and your chances of finding new employment are shrinking at an alarming rate, as businesses lay off and close down.
And this year, because you are foolishly trying to save your money, the government has decided to borrow another trillion dollars for you, which you will also pay back, with interest. The money will be spent as fast and as loose as possible, even when, by the government's own calculations, it won't help you find another job.
And your retirement fund? That's at 50% also, with lots of room to go down.
And only socialist countries provide public health care. You're on your own.
And we're still fighting two wars, which aren't going well.
"made the convincing case last month when limits on executive compensation threatened the consensus behind the Treasury DepartmentÂ’s plan to invest capital in financial firms" Quote from American Banker Option ARMageddon
Ha, Ha, Ha!!! Maybe not quite the quote that Hitler was a vegetarian and loves animals, but close...too close.
I have hit my limit in terms of the amount of moral turpitude I can stomach.
If it were only Merrill or BofA, I could dump/short their stock, boycott the company, and if relevant take them to court...
But the problem is systemic. A systemic problem requires a systemic solution.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Do we have a more perfect union today? Where is Justice? Domestic tranquility will not last long under these conditions. Don't get me started about promotion of the General Welfare with the TARP! Have we secured the blessings of liberty for our posterity (with our enormous national debt???). NO!!
What the hell does our government think it is doing???
I'd say we need to stand up and protest until the nation as a whole reaffirms its commitment to the intent of our Constitution, and we finally have a government that "gets it"...
A systemic moral problem. The President has alluded to it more than once. Read your Old Testament though, because the problem is a big part of its theme. It's a very hard-bitten collection of books, mostly.
Nothing is new under the sun, when it comes to human beings.
Our leadership condones crime - is complicit. Brazen fraud and theft goes unpunished. This is the wrong message to send to a distraught public, which is finding more and more time on their hands.
Funny how thain is being villafied here. it was Stan the man who ran this company into the ground. Thain was batting cleanup. The real tell here is Ken Lewis. Let's not foget this guy stepped up to Countrywide and had to double down as he was so underwater. Lewis IS the guy who was responsible for inking the deal. If ebveryone in the market was scratching their head at the deal and they didn;t have the information Lewis had, doesn't that tell you something? Lewis is toxic and needs to go as well. He is nothing but a relic, a forlorn sign of the empire (of debt) building. The sooner he goes the better. BAC equity to zero and bondolders take it too.
"Hyperinflation is a better prospect...
If the Fed/Treasury throws printed money at over priced asset purchases."
Again, I can't see inflation unless you can get wages to go up...throwing money at a limited subset of spenders doesn't give you inflation, it gives you bubbles.
In fact, 59 percent dismissed the government's plan to offer 2,500 euros ($3,200) as an incentive to car buyers who trade in older vehicles for more environmentally friendly automobiles. Only 11 percent said they would even consider accepting the offer.
Story excerpted in Mish's blog about Merkel's gimmick. The deal probably sucks, but still...only 11% would even consider it? Germans not stimulated thus far.
BAC equity to zero and bondolders take it too. S | 01.22.09 - 1:43 pm | #
Let's just pray this goes from your fingertips to God's screen... seriously... we need some of these to go into receivership - re-establish some moral hazard and do it soon.
throwing money at a limited subset of spenders doesn't give you inflation, it gives you bubbles."
It can give you both. As long as the money is spent buying stuff it will drive the prices up. This is the worst of all worlds where the money goes out, but most people get none of it.
inflation in the realm discussed helps only one person which is why it would happen. The US governement. If they inflate and artifically supress the yield curve while wages stagnate in the race to the bottom, the single entitiy that benefits 9s the US governement as it monitizes its fdebt owned abroad. The Chinese moving to short duration is a really interesitng move. They have essentially keeping their enemies very close. smart. The gov can inflate but it will choke itself in the process. Inflation will be a theft greater than any ocngrss can dream of. TARP on steriods. Middle class bend over, take your walled out of you back pocket, place in mouth and bite down...here it comes
In a sense, Sabato added, Clinton was in worse shape when he left office after two terms, than was Nixon when he was forced out during his second turn. “Unlike Nixon, Clinton had just become a joke. Nixon was roundly condemned and was despised but he was taken seriously.”
This, despite the fact that when Clinton left Washington on January 20, 2001, he left with a 62 percent approval rating, 40 points higher than George W. BushÂ’s.
Many of the two million people who came out for ObamaÂ’s inauguration were part of the 78 percent who did not approve of Bush, and he and Laura who were pelted with boos when they took their places to view ObamaÂ’s swearing in and speech. When Bill Clinton Left the White House | Chicago Daily Observer
Bonuses were not paid, though, to Thain and four other top executives -- President and COO Greg Fleming, Chief Financial Officer Nelson Chai, President of Global Wealth Management Robert McCann, and General Counsel Rosemary Berkery -- who requested they not receive additional compensation.
Again, I can't see inflation unless you can get wages to go up...throwing money at a limited subset of spenders doesn't give you inflation, it gives you bubbles. Tim Geithner's Mom | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 1:45 pm | #
Every expenditure on one side is an 'income' or 'cap gain' on somebody else's ledger. It might not raise wages for welders but it sure raises SOMEBODY'S 'income'. Ask the bonus receivers at BAC. Result on money supply & velocity is pretty much the same.
It can give you both. As long as the money is spent buying stuff it will drive the prices up. This is the worst of all worlds where the money goes out, but most people get none of it. Zephyr | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 1:48 pm | #
Hitler as a vegetarian Adolf Hitler's vegetarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"It amused him to spoil carnivorous guests' appetites... As they put their forks down in disgust, he would harangue them for hypocrisy. 'That shows how cowardly people are,' he would say. 'They can't face doing certain horrible things themselves, but they enjoy the benefits without a pang of conscience.'
"Yesterday was quite an interesting exercise in game theory, as there was an enormous ($6 billion) option expiry in USD/JPY at 10 am New York time. The strike price was 90.00, and and expiry USD/JPY was trading at.....90.05. The thinking in the market was that the option short would need to buy $6 billion after expiry, and were leaning long as a result. When the institution in question pulled the bid at 10.01, a 3% plunge down the elevator shaft swiftly ensued, taking USD/JPY down to its previous low of 87.10.
"Intervention rumours swiftly ensued, though USD/JPY subsequently squeezed higher along with US equities. But still, it would be quite a statement for Japan to intervene in currency markets in week one of the Obama administration. Such a statement, in fact, that the presumptive Treasury Secretary Geithener made a comment yesterday (admittedly not targeted at Japan specifically) reiterating the US preference (or demand, depending on your perspective) for flexible, market-determined exchange rate regimes for major trading economies."
True. Two years should be more than enough time to pin this entire debacle on O, then relentlessly harangue him for past (or current) sexual infidelities, eventually leading to his impeachment.
Paging Rush, Ann & Sean! You're needed at the right-wing spin desk.
Funny how thain is being villafied here. it was Stan the man who ran this company into the ground. Thain was batting cleanup. The real tell here is Ken Lewis. Let's not foget this guy stepped up to Countrywide and had to double down as he was so underwater. Lewis IS the guy who was responsible for inking the deal. If ebveryone in the market was scratching their head at the deal and they didn;t have the information Lewis had, doesn't that tell you something? Lewis is toxic and needs to go as well. He is nothing but a relic, a forlorn sign of the empire (of debt) building. The sooner he goes the better. BAC equity to zero and bondolders take it too. \t S | \t \t \t \t01.22.09 - 1:43 pm | # S, you are probably right, but Thain floated to the surface on a particularly ill-timed (for him) outgoing tide. I have had it. I want a different "financial system." I am going to write about this one, and the banks' withholding of information in general. I am also actively trying to think about how I can buy less and less and less, so I can contribute my part to changing the system. At some point, pitchforks may be called for. I have one. I am completely mild-mannered, but I have hit my limit. Obama has a mandate to go after every one of these overpaid, overstuffed class warriors. We'll see if he manages it.
The rest of you may be eating squirrel tonight, but I have a great pot of cheap lentil soup waiting for me.
Perhaps y'all might consider that pitchfork and ammo references and posting of personal addresses is inappropriate, or, at least, might not inure to the benefit of CR.
"Obama has a mandate to go after every one of these overpaid, overstuffed class warriors. We'll see if he manages it."
That will be difficult. Obama raised record campaign funding from people of all income levels. The wealthy (including business) were huge contributors to Obama's campaign. The financial sector, and hedge fund people in particular, supported him in a big way. I doubt that he will go after them.
"Funny, I didn't hear about wage inflation in Zimbabwe"
It's just not reported. If the general populace was not getting extra money (in the form of wages), how could the "price" of bread go up a millionfold? Printing money isn't what forces prices up...it's releasing it into the wild, and having people actually spend it (as opposed to saving it) that forces prices up.
Now, giving the money to a select few will cause periphery prices to increase (as wages will go up for luxury yacht builders, etc. etc. etc.), but again, I see that as more of a bubble than a general price inflation.
Moot point, until and unless people and entities can be forced into spending vs. saving (a Keynsian "war on savers") long term.
The rest of you may be eating squirrel tonight, but I have a great pot of cheap lentil soup waiting for me. Sue (Capital S) | 01.22.09 - 2:00 pm | #
Yum - I love lentil soup. Can't figure out why everyone else in the family hates it when I make lentil soup. Maybe it's because I get so much gas from it... but I didn't think my gas smelled so bad, it's other peoples' gas that smells... [a political analogy there somewhere]...
Printing money and spending it does cause inflation, and wages will have to rise in response. But the key is "in response"... The initial effect is for the spender of the new money to buy stuff at the pre-inflation prices. So it is a transfer (theft) from everyone else.
Nothing is new under the sun, when it comes to human beings.
Pavel Chichikov | 01.22.09 - 1:38 pm | #
I shall grant them no reprieve, because they sell honest folk for silver and the poor for a pair of sandals. They gring the heads of the helpless into the dust and push the humble out of their way.
This automated new thread notice is a free service provided by Mibbit IRC client widget (irc: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk) PS: Fight the Nemo.
anon writes:
The funny thing is the first taxpayer stimulus was a carefully thought out approach greasing the way to TARP. They bought my cooperation for $900.
With corruption like this, and with April 15 taxes coming up, they'll probably be buying cooperation, and blunting organized protest, once again.
Lots of their cr*p is carefully thought out, like having people pay taxes as many months away as possible from when they vote.
Thain did a great job, suckering the BACbumpkins into thinking they were buying at the bottom.
Apparatchik Zackattack | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 12:50 pm | #
IMHO Apparat is absolutely correct. Ken Lewis was a babe in the woods, pigeon, whatever, and Thain took him to the cleaners just like he and his colleagues did on a daily basis.
But Lewis has won this battle. But he has a war on his hands. Merrill is likely to dissolve into BoA divisions and become a footnote to history. But the pain will linger at BofA for a decade or more.
I am guessing that Daily Kos and all those other loud sites are telling the new COIC that maybe TG isnt the one, or that Thain should be shot.... Does anyone know if Kos has started the new movemnet for the new administratio
But Lewis has won this battle. But he has a war on his hands. Merrill is likely to dissolve into BoA divisions and become a footnote to history. But the pain will linger at BofA for a decade or more.
JohnR(VA) | 01.22.09 - 2:20 pm | #
Pyrrhic victory in a MAD war.
Look at this first picture and understand what is wrong in our country. Pres Obama is surrounded by old white men. No women. No minorities.
We never see anyone being held accountable for any of this financial mess.
Is it possible that companies which have lost billions have contributed funds to those that are in a position to hold them accountable (directly or indirectly)?
To All:
A protest of the bail out is being formed by the Market Ticker guy, On Feb. 1st mail a tea bag to Pres. Obama
and your congressmen to remind them Americans didn't approve the bailout and we can en masse protest this abuse. The message should be clear.
These guys making Millions while the rest of America sells there stuff on Ebay to pay there bills. But, Ebay's are so high you can't even do that anymore. They will not even let you accept money orders now. You have to use PayPal (owned by Ebay), which charges you another 3% just to transfer money out of one persons account into another. What a racket.
On a lighter note, some of the people involved in the tainted milk scandel in China have received a death sentence. How long do you think Thain would be alive if he lived in China ? I wouldn't want to live in China, but they do know the meaning of swift justice.
Was involved in a take over a few years ago, bean counters and lawyers and public relations did all the grunt detail work, the executives spent 95% of the time figuring out their compensation and how much they could rake of the top and bottom of the deal. What was impact on shareholders, employees, vendors, was not of any concern, PR people would come up with some BS. More sociopaths in corner offices than people realize
And get this, federal taxes on those dividends are 15% max. Compare that tax rate to the federal tax rate on your income (work).
Angry Saver | 01.22.09 - 1:38 pm |
The federal tax rate on those GE dividends are 50% maximum.
GE's marginal tax rate is likely 35%. Dividends are post tax distributions.
Then, there is a maximum 15% federal tax, which equals 50%.
It is clear these investment banking executives who stole our tax money do not yet realize that if there is a disruption in the basic goods and services that we have come to rely upon, they will be held to account.
Their fate will be either that of Jeffrey Skilling or that of Mussolini. Depending on how bad things get.
I see plenty of appropriate outrage on this site, but you all are preaching to the choir. Somebody with time on their hands (not me, a wage slave) needs to organize a web boycott of every bank that is accepting federal handouts. A depositor revolt (moving deposits to credit unions and local banks) would send a very quick and powerful message that Americans do not want their taxes used to support failed businesses. Anybody up to the challenge?
A third address on record, 401 Purchase Street, is described as a tax billing address in Rye, but on Google maps and on the Westchester County GIS map above, all three available Thain addresses show up in Harrison, not Rye."
Kung Fu Panda | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 1:18 pm | #
Not that big a deal, they are adjoining towns and not unusual for someone to have a different post office than the school district. I grew up near there and my Bro lives in Rye. Other than a very feirce HS football rivalry, not a lot of difference between Harrision and Rye.
I don't know what I'm more upset about... Thain/Merrill clearly using taxpayer money for one last gorge at the trough... or... Ken Lewis destroying the largest bank in the US though mismanagement.
OK, but can we taxpayers get our money back?
Merrill Execs Pay Selves Bonuses Ahead of Schedule (and Before BofA Closing) « naked capitalism
throw all the bastards out
GIMME AN 'EIGHT' . . . . . .
NEMO
This new overclass of america that has first bid on funny money - Where do I sign up? I'm tired of working in the "real economy."
Obama get rid of rest of these ASSCLOWNS by nationalizing US banking system and save signifcant US taxpayer $$$
Americans = suckers
We need a massive protest.
I say next Friday everybody skips work to send a message to CONgress that we won't tolerate any more bailouts.
End the looting!
NZ Sees Bright Future with Major Offshore Oil Finds
"Confirmation of large oil fields in the offshore waters of New Zealand could provide a step change in national income for the country, an energy briefing to the new Minister of Energy and Resources Gerry Brownlee says.
The Vote Energy briefing from the Ministry of Economic Development made public by Brownlee, says there are potentially several 1-10 billion barrel oil fields in the Great South Basin alone.
Any discoveries would perhaps allow New Zealand to follow in the economic footsteps of Norway and emerge as a serious source of energy for the world, the briefing says."
Very interesting...a Norway-size producer would have significant impact on the global market...
merrill's position in this crisis is now returning to its rightful place. front and center...merrill lost 80bln dollars in one year (16 months actually)...and they still found the money to pay out billions in bonuses for 2008...a month earlier than usual..right before the merger..this is trouble...thain will be down in dc soon and he will have to explain some very unpleasant facts...merrill's collapse dwarfs that of lehmans and bears...yet somehow they have avoided the spotlight for the past few months..not any more...merrill's 80bln loss is the most egregious of all the bank losses...by far..and it should pay the piper..
CAn I have some of his new office furniture?
Steve Miller Band +1
(Woo, hoo hoo!)
Go on, take the money and run ...
I say next Friday everybody skips work to send a message to CONgress that we won't tolerate any more bailouts.
I'm there man, but I don't think anyone will notice.
Thain should be in jail. I don't know how he gets away with lying with a straight face for so long. While making FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS!.
THE PRAGMATIC CAPITALIST » » JOHN THAIN’S WORLD….
It's ridiculous.
I remember talking to a BoA employee this past fall who was griping about the stock price in the high $20s. Apparently, the market was overreacting at that time.
These members of the financial leadership our disgraceful.
Head of NYSE is always a crook?
"Merrill, meanwhile, decided to move up its year-end bonuses, doling out cash just days before it was officially acquired by Bank of America, it was reported earlier Thursday."
Um, that would be OUR TARP money. Heck of a job Hankie!
Well back to wait and see if I am going to get laid off. No cover for my ass.
Damn, should have going into banking or law.
If you've got the inclination, I have got the cr
Worth the repost...
One of the most interesting sites I have ever seen. Just put your mouse on a city and the newspaper headlines pop up... Double click and the page opens in new window....
The page cannot be found
What committee would handle the questioning in Congress? (i.e. what is the correct committee to contact?) Is this even legal? Can there be a clawback?
Butch Cassidy headin' out with his loot.
Disgusting.
GIMME AN 'EIGHT' . . . . . .
Eric
SEVEN!
Taxpayers are slaves in the the era of bankers.
One of the most interesting sites I have ever seen.
Besides CR...
The Merrill bonus story really is outrageous.
If ordinary people really understood what is happening here, somebody would be getting lined up and shot.
If you've got the inclination, I have got the crime:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnMiwRj_C7Y
Damn thing cut me off.
LAM, that link doesn't work. Are there some more letters?
link doesn't work
SEVEN!
Anonymous | 01.22.09 - 12:32 pm | #
Off by one.... common programming error!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - we need accountability. The health of the market is based on confidence - the public looting must stop! I fear, however, that it will only get worse.
I'm there man, but I don't think anyone will notice.
They'll notice if 50 million of us stay home. We need to make the idea viral.
I'm sure we can find a disgruntled MSFT employee to help out.
I guess his successor will need to redecorate the office. BAC will need some more TARP funds.
Better liar:
Thain or Mozillo????? Both were able to school Ken Lewis....
"People at Bank of America say they discovered that Merrill's financial condition deteriorated significantly sometime in mid- to late December"
Just let the banks spiral down, let the FDIC swoop in on their Friday evening takeovers, and do a real RTC on everything (including the bad debts). Business can continue as the FDIC runs the banks for a while, the best run banks will be rewarded by not failing (a novel approach to determining winners), and taxpayers will be on the hook for hundreds of billions (trillions?)...but if the taxpayer is going to take the hit, sooner is better than later.
- TG'sM
gimme a C
gimme a L
gimme a A
gimme a W
gimme a B
gimme a A
gimme a C
gimme a K
what does it spell?: bonus CLAWBACK
and then: federal prosecution to Merrill Execs for whatever's in the law books.
mmmmmmm 8.
What committee would handle the questioning in Congress?
Senate Banking Comittee (Dodd, Shelby)
House Financial Services Committee (Frank, Bachus)
Angry,
OK, I've penciled in "don't go to nonexistent job".
If you have to reschedule, I'll have to reapportion my time. "xbox, pocket pool, nap, beer... success."
LAM, that link doesn't work. Are there some more letters?
Try this...
Newseum | Today's Front Pages | Map View
Green Acres is the place to be...farm living is the life for me..
Zsa Zsa Furious With MadoffFraudulent investor Bernie Madoff may have made his worst enemy of all when he stiffed screen legend Zsa Zsa Gabor in his $50 billion 'Ponzi' scam.
The National Enquirer is reporting in its new issue that the 91 year-old Gabor and her husband, 65 year-old Prince Frederic Von Anhalt, have lost a fortune.
"We're mad as hell and we want our money back!" said Prince Frederic. "We might be forced to sell our Bel-Air home, cars, artwork and even our jewelry because of this sick man."
He added:
"This scam artist should be dragged through the streets and flogged!"
Zsa Zsa is said to be understandably heartbroken over the loss, which amounts to roughly $4.5 million.
"I feel really bad, because Zsa Zsa shouldn't have to worry about the financial mess I've gotten us into," says Frederic. "We are taking legal action to recoup some of the money.
"I'm going to have to make back that money somehow or we're going to face financial ruin."
I want Thain's balls in a jar on my desk.
"I'm going to have to make back that money somehow or we're going to face financial ruin."
Anonymous | 01.22.09 - 12:37 pm | #
Maybe she could spread it for Hustler.
Maybe she could spread it for Hustler.
Eric
LMAO
Maybe she could spread it for Hustler
The pain of Thain is mainly the taxpayer's bane.
Obama has a chance to send a message right away. He should go after all the bonus money and send those people to jail. I heard Gitmo might be available.
damn haloscan
ewwwww my eyes
Thanks, Lam!
Oh oh, the beautiful people are starting to lose money too...?
Where is my shiny happy plastic world going?
Elvis writes:
Obama has a chance to send a message right away. He should go after all the bonus money and send those people to jail. I heard Gitmo might be available.
Elvis | 01.22.09 - 12:41 pm | #
Water board them!
uhhhh....ok, don't take it.
(1) If they do this in full public view, imagine what they do behind public view.
(2) If they do this in public view and the public is complacent, how do you refute Jas?
I wonder how the taxpayer is going to see a profit on that part of the TARP? We're still going to see a profit, right?
Can someone summarize all of Thain's lies over the last year? Like saying no capital was needed...SEC where are you?????
I'll never make fifty million over the course of my life. This a**hole gets it for f*cking the American public.
Now thats American as apple pie!
..........
I got a laugh out of CNBC's Gasparino running down the list of Thain's office furniture esp. when he got the the 35K commode!
Guess he thought it was an old fashioned word for toilet... I believe that piece of furniture came out of the reign of Louis XIVth or XVI...
Resigned is the new Fired!
John Thain relationship map
John A. Thain relationship map - Muckety.com
It's my understanding that in bankruptcy the court can nullify transactions occurring within 90 days of the bankruptcy.
Can't the Federal Govt force Merrill into BK? They are a large creditor. Get the money back. Who deserves large bonuses when a company is losing that much money. Even more interesting, the company wouldn't have lost much money if it wasn't for the bonuses themselves.
If that man doesn't get the OJ treatment until he goes to jail, I'll be greatly disappointed with Americans.
When will Ken Lewis' announcement come? He was dumb enough to buy Countrywide and Merrill. That sounds like a self evident case for removal.
Just let the banks spiral down, let the FDIC swoop in on their Friday evening takeovers, and do a real RTC on everything (including the bad debts). Business can continue as the FDIC runs the banks for a while, the best run banks will be rewarded by not failing (a novel approach to determining winners), and taxpayers will be on the hook for hundreds of billions (trillions?)...but if the taxpayer is going to take the hit, sooner is better than later.
Tim Geithner's Mom | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 12:34 pm | #
Do you always do your son's homework for him or what? Maybe that's why he's never learned to be responsible and get things in on time or correct.
What are you talking about?
Thain did a great job, suckering the BACbumpkins into thinking they were buying at the bottom.
The pain with Thain is all we can do is complain.
Thain, meanwhile, is laughing his way to one of his mansions, to plot ever more nefarious schemes.
Crispy,
Chronicalling his lies would be difficult, as I'm sure he opened his mouth quite frequently on a daily basis over the years.
Nostrovia,
OT but sort of linked to Maxx's petshopboys rock blogging:
There was a youtube video a while back that featured a bunch of suits waiting in front of building for day hires. A truck takes a few, a cpa, a programmer etc. Anyone have the link floating around?
I'll never make fifty million over the course of my life.
Nades,
I'm not so sure. If the fed really fires up the printing press, fifty million might become pocket change.
Zimbabwe has lots of centa-millionaires.
All you naysayers will be eating crow when you see how we profit from our new aquisitions
Let's see - is there enough room at Gitmo for all the exec's and board members of BearSterns, Lehman, Wachovia, AIG, MerrilLynch, Citi, BofA, WaMu, Countrywide, etc??
Maybe not, but let's have fun finding out . . . . .
John Thain relationship map
http://www.muckety.com/John-A-Th...in/ 2077.muckety
MPinCO | 01.22.09 - 12:47 pm | #
"Unofficial Adviser"... Lame. Is that the best a GOP hack can do?
Maybe this is enough to get the assclowns in DC to say no more TARP money for anyone.
all the money stockholders lost and now this, totally despicable
this has got to stop
Pitchforks are too good for these motherf**kers.
Angry Saver writes:
They'll notice if 50 million of us stay home.
They'll notice if 50 million of us "stay-in", at home, not paying the mortgage. Tanta would have us all on fire by now.
The logical extension of a system that does not penalize these crooks is for them lose their lives by vigilantes. This is becoming third world corruption and it will only be a matter of time before some group starts killing these people.
quick -- arrest him before he can get to an airport.
Rent to Moan writes:
All you naysayers will be eating crow when you see how we profit from our new aquisitions
Rent to Moan | 01.22.09 - 12:53 pm | #
LOL!!
WIthout the taxpayers these companies are bankrupt...
Thain makes Nardelli look as smart as Stephen Hawking
Johnny Thain, is a banker up in New York (clap clap clap)
You know he knows just exactly what the facts is
He ain't gonna have to go face the justice
He makes his living stealing other peoples taxes.
etc.
Thain makes Nardelli look as smart as Stephen Hawking
Thain's commode | 01.22.09 - 12:56 pm | #
Before or after the diagnosis?
dryfly | 01.22.09 - 12:50 pm
I hope you contacted him. Twas getting a bad vibe..
Why are my stocks still underwater...Son???
wonder how much BAC is saving after firing all the 1st year analysts along w/ Thain?
I hope you contacted him. Twas getting a bad vibe..
nova | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 12:57 pm | #
Yes.
Well, at least hollywood won't have to waste much time on whom to play him.
Paging Nick Nolte...
Darth Paulson
thanks again for the link (previous thread) to the FT article about merrill 11th hour billions in bonuses
i called one us senator so far and my congressman (9th district WA)
to let them know that using billions of TARP to pay bonuses to merrill right before BOA taxpayer subsidized acquisition
is nothing more than legalized theft of the taxpayers money
and i expected congress to find a way to take that money back or
there will be a political cost to congress
heres a "for free" access to the times story if others wish to check it out
Merrill paid employee bonuses before sale to Bank of America - Hindustan Times
New Story UP...called Lewis and Thain are PUNK-A$$ BITCHE$...
it has links to the clusterstock stories..
i went over the edge i think in just my 6th day with the site...
i actually hope they sue me...
they are public figures now, and i don't think you can libel a public figure...so bring it on...
DB
does anyone know if there's a "Bankster's Paradise" spoof of Coolio's "Gangster's Paradise"? I know Weird Al has the Amish one, but I could have sworn that there was one with bankers.
Rent to Moan,
"All you naysayers will be eating crow when you see how we profit from our new aquisitions."
Ah, the underpants gnome model:
Phase 1: Taxpayers Collect Bad Bank Debts.
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit!
This will work well.
Nostrovia,
black dog writes:
Well, at least hollywood won't have to waste much time on whom to play him.
Paging Nick Nolte...
Gary Busey is available.
A truck takes a few, a cpa, a programmer etc. Anyone have the link floating around?
deflationary jane | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 12:51 pm | #
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XGJq8wrw5I
Thain, Madoff, Paulson....and the list goes on while we twittle our thumbs.
Gary Busey is available.
anon | 01.22.09 - 12:59 pm
Just not coherent
ROTFLMAO:
This dude needs to be in jail:
Area Rug $87,784
Mahogany Pedestal Table $25,713
19th Century Credenza $68,179
Pendant Light Furniture $19,751
4 Pairs of Curtains $28,091
Pair of Guest Chairs $87,784
George IV Chair $18,468
6 Wall Sconces $2,741
Parchment Waste Can $1,405
Roman Shade Fabric $10,967
Roman Shades $7,315
Coffee Table $5,852
Commode on Legs $35,115
Probably got a kickback from the seller of those fine pieces of furniture also
Hot off the presses: Zimbabwe introduces trillion-dollar note.
(via George Ure.)
Comrade Misean, that sounds like an application of some of the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition.
Sue,
"Comrade Misean, that sounds like an application of some of the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition."
Naw, those are cool. These are the underpants gnomes from South Park.
Nostrovia,
The sharks smell BLOOD! Good!
Expired
Thain, Madoff, Paulson....and the list goes on while we twittle our thumbs.
AP'Shadow | 01.22.09 - 1:00 pm | #
That's all behind us - nothing but Hope and Change™ from now on. Get with the plan.
Darth Paulson(Unrated) writes:
\tI want Thain's balls in a jar on my desk.
Darth Paulson | 01.22.09 - 12:39 pm | #
a very SMALL jar
Restore faith and confidence back to the system. Some legal maneuverings must be done here to reverse this loot and punish these parasites. Stories like these are like daggers to the heart and hammers to the mind. But don't let the few bad apples ruin the country.
"I heard Gitmo might be available."
now we're talking! ken lewis in orange jammies in the chain-link rec yard - THAT would show the world that the USA has really come back to its senses and is once again the shining city on a hill.
You Saddam-loving gay-commie thumbsucking LIEbrul intelluctuals latte-sippers just don't get it.
This is what The Free Market decided. WAKE UP!!
/Conservative after daily Rush
The silver lining for me is seeing Congress get effed. Funding the bailout without any restrictions then being 'surprised' when the money is used for bonuses and the like. Think about that...legislators who spend days on minute details on legislation pretending to be upset when funds are misappropriated. They're a joke.
Wow, what a blowoff we are headed to. These are not nickel and dime assholes, these people are world class. The script says when you get big time fraud like this - the explosion is sure to be spectacular.
This is pretty egregious, but from what I understand, if you saw the structure and stock strike price of the bonuses, you'd find that they're mostly pretty much worthless paper, and there's no real cash being run off with. They're mostly an illusion, kind of like ML being a going concern when BAC acquired it was an illusion.
Did this furniture come from that shop in the O.C.?
In the House, Republicans hold 178 seats, meaning they need a net gain of 40 seats to take back majority control. In the Senate, Republicans hold just 41 of the 100 seats.
If that weren't daunting enough, the public gives especially harsh marks to congressional Republicans.
Their job approval rating is 25 percent -- the lowest recorded by the Gallup polling agency. That's lower even than Bush's. His approval was 29 percent in the Gallup poll released Dec. 16. If there was any good news for Republicans in the poll, it would be the public only gives congressional Democrats a 37 percent approval rating.
Wow, what a blowoff we are headed to. These are not nickel and dime assholes, these people are world class. The script says when you get big time fraud like this - the explosion is sure to be spectacular.
nova | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 1:07 pm | #
LOLbanker sez- too lates for pardun?
asl hearts lenin
Actually I can here the 2010 campaign ad's.
Congressman Pete Blonkdivitch allowed people like Twain to buy 32K commodes with YOUR MONEY!
Now they want to shut down CherryHill Elemnetary School because we have no money.
Whose FAULT is IT! You DECIDE
OT on the torch and pitchfork angle -
but central valley/central coast CA dec numbers are up on dqnews. no es bueno. all markets except the big kahunas of LA & SF/SJ have now checked in.
In the House, Republicans hold 178 seats, meaning they need a net gain of 40 seats to take back majority control. In the Senate, Republicans hold just 41 of the 100 seats.
If that weren't daunting enough, the public gives especially harsh marks to congressional Republicans.
Their job approval rating is 25 percent -- the lowest recorded by the Gallup polling agency. That's lower even than Bush's. His approval was 29 percent in the Gallup poll released Dec. 16. If there was any good news for Republicans in the poll, it would be the public only gives congressional Democrats a 37 percent approval rating.
Anonymous | 01.22.09 - 1:10 pm | #
Two years is a long time in Washington politics.
A mildly surprising amount of information at that link...
Kung Fu Panda |
bad link
What committee would handle the questioning in Congress?
Senate Banking Comittee (Dodd, Shelby)
House Financial Services Committee (Frank, Bachus)
\t Basel Too | \t \t \t \t
Basel Too | 01.22.09 - 12:36 pm | #
Thank you Basel. I wonder if it would be more effective to write the committee or my own congresscritter (who happens to be reasonably good).
Thank you Commrade Terry
Naw, those are cool. These are the underpants gnomes from South Park.
Nostrovia,
Comrade Misean is Dope | 01.22.09 - 1:04 pm | #
I know too mnay geeks so this is where my mind went:
Gnomes of Zürich Summary
'The Gnomes of Zürich are one of the secret societies playable in Illuminati and Illuminati: New World Order, both by Steve Jackson Games. The Gnome of Zurich is also a character in the Infocom computer game Zork II.
DB "and i don't think you can libel a public figure...so bring it on..."
yes you can but under the Sullivan v. NY Times '63 Supreme's ruling not only does the plaintiff must prove the facts you used were wrong but that you knew it and published them anyway, that is with malicious intent to damage said plaintiff
Now they want to shut down CherryHill Elemnetary School because we have no money.
nova | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 1:10 pm | #
bunch of rich people in cherry hill anyway, screw 'em! not like the hard workin' poor folk in toms river. in jest of course.
and if you hear that 'we need to pay to attract top talent....', remember that not only are these top talent people incompetent, but there are far more talented people who will never get a chance to interview because they are not in the Wall St social circle. People who work for less than a $million a year who would out-think Wall St's finest.
"who would out-think Wall St's finest."
not like that is too hard when you're talking about the geniuses who decided to buy countrywide back when they did
"Rapacious Greed Reveals Banking's Global Confidence Scheme"
The banks simply devised one scheme after another to tighten their stranglehold over every single financial transaction made. The banks made it increasingly impossible for anyone to escape their clutches or for anyone to avoid using them for even the pettiest of financial transactions. The beauty of that was that the banks could increasingly justify taking a cut of every transaction they were involved in. Their 'cut' became larger and larger as they discovered they could push the limits of credulity beyond their wildest dreams of greed.
Rapacious Greed Reveals Banking’s Global Confidence Scheme « Your Mortgage or Your Life…
Does anyone think that perhaps the citizenry has transcended surprise and achieved not just acceptance but even expectation of this sort of behavior?
This stuff happens constantly and nobody ever seems to really care because it doesn't really affect them immediately and painfully.
Want to see an uproar about the TARP? Start sending households "draft notices" - i.e. their bank accounts are going to be drafted into paying for this with an explicit amount owed included. Then you'll see some outrage.
Anyone know the amount of bonuses paid by Merrill in Dec.?
I wonder if it would be more effective to write the committee or my own congresscritter (who happens to be reasonably good).
Depends. If your district is humongous, then your voice might get drowned in the din. One thing you can do is pick on the Committee members from BFE districts/states.
Many here blame unions for so many things, Thain proves it's the big fish that do the most damage.
Sticky 'Eight'.
A well crafted M&A agreement has brakes that control expenses and prevent the target company from paying out management bonuses on eve of closing. Its possible BoA attorneys were told to back off, but this reflects very poorly negotiated/drafted deal. No doubt all involved will claim hurried pressure, but I would be ashamed to have represented the buyer with this result.
Voiceover
President Bushs legacy
Slow zoom to cute 7 year old blonde haired kid.
Voiceover
She went to bed hungry last night.
She will go to bed hungry tonight.
Cut to pan of Detroit style urban decay. Black male looking defiant. Hispanic Mom slumping.
Why?
Why! in a louder - authorative voice
Because your congressman - Sean Budinski - gave our future to pay for "THEIR" bonuses.
Reposted from prior thread b/c it's actually topical on this thread:
Gary writes:
Thain spent over a million redecorating his office! HE was scapegoated? He's an out-of-touch IDIOT!
Black Star Ranch | 01.22.09 - 12:18 pm | #
While that's a headline grabber (and your assessment is correct) I think the bigger issue was the bonuses.
Moving the bonus distribution up a month is highly fishy. I can guaran-damn-tee that lawyers like myself will soon be poring over ML emails and recorded lines.
Gary | 01.22.09 - 1:18 pm | #
LOL nova, remind me if I ever run for office to have you do my campaign ads...
You know - I think I may have missed my calling...
For those of you not following along:
The house you paid too much for is now 50% off. You are effectively bankrupt.
The bankers who originated your loan are millionaires and continue to pay themselves more millions with your tax money, that you will be required to pay back, with interest, even as the banks themselves are bankrupt.
The bankers' greed and lack of accountability caused them to hand out billions to people with little income, no assets, and bad credit. You will be required to pay for their mistakes also, with interest.
And if you haven't lost your job yet, you very well may - and soon - and your chances of finding new employment are shrinking at an alarming rate, as businesses lay off and close down.
And this year, because you are foolishly trying to save your money, the government has decided to borrow another trillion dollars for you, which you will also pay back, with interest. The money will be spent as fast and as loose as possible, even when, by the government's own calculations, it won't help you find another job.
And your retirement fund? That's at 50% also, with lots of room to go down.
And only socialist countries provide public health care. You're on your own.
And we're still fighting two wars, which aren't going well.
You know - I think I may have missed my calling...
nova | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 1:19 pm | #
Never too late.
"made the convincing case last month when limits on executive compensation threatened the consensus behind the Treasury DepartmentÂ’s plan to invest capital in financial firms" Quote from American Banker Option ARMageddon
Ha, Ha, Ha!!! Maybe not quite the quote that Hitler was a vegetarian and loves animals, but close...too close.
Say you want to say about China. But I think Thain would get a death sentence there.
3 bedrooms, 16 bathrooms
Thain's like a commode collector?
Say you want to say about China. But I think Thain would get a death sentence there.
Bullet charged to the family as well.
dryfly | 01.22.09 - 1:20 pm
I will wait for the new party that is coming...
At the end - hit them with the new party logo and a voiceover
They may think they can push all the buttons but we will control the streets!
cue metal for some regions - country for others.
Damn - I should do this for youtube - I bet I could go viral, put up a website, ask for donations to support THE PARTY, and retire.
We still don't have an answer to the following question:
How much can you lose as a bank CEO and keep your job?
How much can you lose as a bank CEO and keep your job?
Think BB will make the record
How can you cheat on your taxes and have the IRS report to you?
John Thain and Ken Lewis both just became taxpayer bitches...
We own these two punks now.
This is the crescendo moment we have been waiting for.
The tide will not turn STRONGLY against all further bank bailouts.
We may have won the war, today.
This will be all we will hear about from now until next monday...
this topic will rule the political talk shows this weeknd...
we own these bitches now...
'the perp walk' stage has just begun...
look the F out now if you are a bank ceo on the dole...we want blood...
can't wait to see katie couric tell this story to all the mothers across this country...
that lewis and thain stole $15 BILLION from their children...
What is it they say about a woman scorned?
daily bail writes
Deep breath son.....
It is all very sickening.
And we all will pay for these massive bailouts and the burning of money in the stimulus. The bill will come as inflation.
"And we all will pay for these massive bailouts and the burning of money in the stimulus. The bill will come as inflation.
Zephyr"
This bill will come as war.
look at the bright side, lewis didn't pay thain a retention bonus
But the good news is:
The price of your home will go back up...
And your stock portfolio will go up...
...in dollars.
just send your worthless dollars to my PO box . . .
since it appears that GITMO will be having some vacancies.....I say we put Thain and the rest of the clowns ther.
I bet he has a "Thug life" tatoo across his stomach.
All of the bailout money, and the stimulus money will lead to inflation. It will not raise our incomes - only the prices we pay.
...in dollars.
Zephyr | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 1:29 pm | #
Maybe we should all be hedging and trading in Big Mac futures.
"This bill will come as war."
That's what I'm afraid of. If I'm afraid of anything, it's that.
I have hit my limit in terms of the amount of moral turpitude I can stomach.
If it were only Merrill or BofA, I could dump/short their stock, boycott the company, and if relevant take them to court...
But the problem is systemic. A systemic problem requires a systemic solution.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Do we have a more perfect union today? Where is Justice? Domestic tranquility will not last long under these conditions. Don't get me started about promotion of the General Welfare with the TARP! Have we secured the blessings of liberty for our posterity (with our enormous national debt???). NO!!
What the hell does our government think it is doing???
I'd say we need to stand up and protest until the nation as a whole reaffirms its commitment to the intent of our Constitution, and we finally have a government that "gets it"...
THIS MUST NOT STAND!!!
Maybe we should all be hedging and trading in Big Mac futures.
dryfly | 01.22.09 - 1:32 pm | #
Don't you think instead we'd be better off trading food products rather than consumer durables?
Maybe we should all be hedging and trading in Big Mac futures.
Discerning investors have tankers full of lard floating off of LA waiting for the lard market to explode
War is what ended the Great Depression.
This decline not even close to that scale. So hopefully, we will not need the same solution.
On the other hand, we do seem to be following a similar policy path.
tyranny of the few...
"3 bedrooms, 16 bathrooms"
That's very strange, and reminiscent of a famous 19th century English eccentric.
I wonder if contact with all that money can make someone's mind look like a Salvador Dali watch.
Cool photo here:
CNN.com - Special Reports - The 44th President
Zoom in on Washington!
I have hit my limit in terms of the amount of moral turpitude I can stomach.
Wisdom Speaker | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 1:33 pm | #
Limits were made to be exceeded. Your stomach will have to stretch before this 'affair' is over.
OT and left on a now dead thread, here is the latest version of "Earnings Trends":
Red Ink For the S&P 500
Limits were made to be exceeded. Your stomach will have to stretch before this 'affair' is over.
I'm thinking 9 months worth of stretching...
Hope this milestone thread doesn't get prematurely interrupted...
"But the problem is systemic. "
A systemic moral problem. The President has alluded to it more than once. Read your Old Testament though, because the problem is a big part of its theme. It's a very hard-bitten collection of books, mostly.
Nothing is new under the sun, when it comes to human beings.
SUCKERS! The senate just gave them 350B more. What a loot!
It's not just the I-banks that are in on the looting. Take GE for instance. They are also being propped up by the Fed.
In 2008, GE will pay out approximately $12 billion in dividends.
And get this, federal taxes on those dividends are 15% max. Compare that tax rate to the federal tax rate on your income (work).
Next Friday anyone?
I say next Friday everybody skips work to send a message to CONgress that we won't tolerate any more bailouts.
End the looting!
\t Angry Saver | \t \t \t \t01.22.09 - 12:28 pm | #
How about Monday after next instead.
Our leadership condones crime - is complicit. Brazen fraud and theft goes unpunished. This is the wrong message to send to a distraught public, which is finding more and more time on their hands.
i'm looking for tumbrils on ebay
I say next Friday everybody skips work
Tell that to the people laid off
I say next Friday everybody skips work to send a message to CONgress that we won't tolerate any more bailouts.
Maybe we should all just wear black socks?
War in the manner of WWII seems very unlikely...
America is too powerful...
Hyperinflation is a better prospect...
If the Fed/Treasury throws printed money at over priced asset purchases.
War in the manner of WWII seems very unlikely...
yeah, more like nuclear exchange, limited or unlimited
Gross Ignorance: 144 zephyr posts.
CNN: Ex-Merrill chief Thain out at BofA
You know, I looked at that fast and swore I saw 'Ex-Merrill thief Thain out at BofA
Funny how thain is being villafied here. it was Stan the man who ran this company into the ground. Thain was batting cleanup. The real tell here is Ken Lewis. Let's not foget this guy stepped up to Countrywide and had to double down as he was so underwater. Lewis IS the guy who was responsible for inking the deal. If ebveryone in the market was scratching their head at the deal and they didn;t have the information Lewis had, doesn't that tell you something? Lewis is toxic and needs to go as well. He is nothing but a relic, a forlorn sign of the empire (of debt) building. The sooner he goes the better. BAC equity to zero and bondolders take it too.
Approximately 21% of the S&P 500's $260 billion in annual dividends are from financials.
That's > $50 BILLION in dividends being supported by the TARP. Add in the tens of billions in bank bonuses and it is time a BANKSTILLE day.
Next Friday?
Fuck this crap, I am moving to Iceland. At least they are post-collapse already while we are waiting for the glorious SHTF.
"Hyperinflation is a better prospect...
If the Fed/Treasury throws printed money at over priced asset purchases."
Again, I can't see inflation unless you can get wages to go up...throwing money at a limited subset of spenders doesn't give you inflation, it gives you bubbles.
OT
In fact, 59 percent dismissed the government's plan to offer 2,500 euros ($3,200) as an incentive to car buyers who trade in older vehicles for more environmentally friendly automobiles. Only 11 percent said they would even consider accepting the offer.
Story excerpted in Mish's blog about Merkel's gimmick. The deal probably sucks, but still...only 11% would even consider it? Germans not stimulated thus far.
Maybe we should all just wear black socks?
nova
Maybe we should all take pitchforks to work with us?
When do the peasants get a crack at him?
BAC equity to zero and bondolders take it too.
S | 01.22.09 - 1:43 pm | #
Let's just pray this goes from your fingertips to God's screen... seriously... we need some of these to go into receivership - re-establish some moral hazard and do it soon.
Bastille Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
throwing money at a limited subset of spenders doesn't give you inflation, it gives you bubbles."
It can give you both. As long as the money is spent buying stuff it will drive the prices up. This is the worst of all worlds where the money goes out, but most people get none of it.
Call it Bastard Day...when the regular Joe 6 Pack types storm Wall Street and Bank Corp. HQ's and take justice into their own hands. Fry Em
inflation in the realm discussed helps only one person which is why it would happen. The US governement. If they inflate and artifically supress the yield curve while wages stagnate in the race to the bottom, the single entitiy that benefits 9s the US governement as it monitizes its fdebt owned abroad. The Chinese moving to short duration is a really interesitng move. They have essentially keeping their enemies very close. smart. The gov can inflate but it will choke itself in the process. Inflation will be a theft greater than any ocngrss can dream of. TARP on steriods. Middle class bend over, take your walled out of you back pocket, place in mouth and bite down...here it comes
"Maybe we should all take pitchforks to work with us?"
That would make many of the people on the Washington Metro look like models for a Grant Wood painting.
http://www.wpclipart.com/art/Paintings/American_Gothic__Grant_Wood.png
Roubini Predicts U.S. Losses May Reach $3.6 Trillion (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
roubini ups the big number (losses)
and reiterates that the US banking system is insolvent
Sony Forecasts $1.7 Billion Loss, First In 14 Years
In a sense, Sabato added, Clinton was in worse shape when he left office after two terms, than was Nixon when he was forced out during his second turn. “Unlike Nixon, Clinton had just become a joke. Nixon was roundly condemned and was despised but he was taken seriously.”
This, despite the fact that when Clinton left Washington on January 20, 2001, he left with a 62 percent approval rating, 40 points higher than George W. BushÂ’s.
Many of the two million people who came out for ObamaÂ’s inauguration were part of the 78 percent who did not approve of Bush, and he and Laura who were pelted with boos when they took their places to view ObamaÂ’s swearing in and speech.
When Bill Clinton Left the White House | Chicago Daily Observer
Don't know if this was already posted: Thain and some others did not get their bonuses in Dec:
Bonuses were not paid, though, to Thain and four other top executives -- President and COO Greg Fleming, Chief Financial Officer Nelson Chai, President of Global Wealth Management Robert McCann, and General Counsel Rosemary Berkery -- who requested they not receive additional compensation.
Again, I can't see inflation unless you can get wages to go up...throwing money at a limited subset of spenders doesn't give you inflation, it gives you bubbles.
Tim Geithner's Mom | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 1:45 pm | #
Every expenditure on one side is an 'income' or 'cap gain' on somebody else's ledger. It might not raise wages for welders but it sure raises SOMEBODY'S 'income'. Ask the bonus receivers at BAC. Result on money supply & velocity is pretty much the same.
Maybe we should all take pitchforks to work with us?
Comrade Kristina
I can't. Security won't let me. Maybe a subversive t-shirt? We can make some money too!
It can give you both. As long as the money is spent buying stuff it will drive the prices up. This is the worst of all worlds where the money goes out, but most people get none of it.
Zephyr | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 1:48 pm | #
BINGO - we have a winner.
Re: roubini ups the big number (losses)
and reiterates that the US banking system is insolvent
America has to start the good bank, bad bank thing and force the bad banks out of the system ASAP!
heres an idea!
privatize the losses!
and socialize the profits!!!
snark meter pinned and snapped off
Good ole' fashioned Southern BBQ...featuring all the Piggies from Wall street....Souieeeeee!
JP
thats cause thain and the other top brass got their boners, i mean bonuses right from boa as i recall
will research for link
Think global banker heads on pikes and act local to find heads for pikes?
remember the joneses? sti still in downward channel so bank solid?
YouTube - "The Joneses" SunTrust Ad
Again, I can't see inflation unless you can get wages to go up..
Funny, I didn't hear about wage inflation in Zimbabwe.
Printing money causes inflation. Wages are secondary.
that roubini sure pukes in the punchbowl
maybe China can export their justice system here at least for the NYC area.
Go long on Bullet manufactturers
Hitler as a vegetarian
Adolf Hitler's vegetarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"It amused him to spoil carnivorous guests' appetites... As they put their forks down in disgust, he would harangue them for hypocrisy. 'That shows how cowardly people are,' he would say. 'They can't face doing certain horrible things themselves, but they enjoy the benefits without a pang of conscience.'
Somehow that is related to banking CEO's
I think either nemo or nova was asking about the sudden drop in the USD/JPY yesterday morning.
I just found this over at MacroMan's blog (http://macro-man.blogspot.com/2009/01/first-shots.html):
"Yesterday was quite an interesting exercise in game theory, as there was an enormous ($6 billion) option expiry in USD/JPY at 10 am New York time. The strike price was 90.00, and and expiry USD/JPY was trading at.....90.05. The thinking in the market was that the option short would need to buy $6 billion after expiry, and were leaning long as a result. When the institution in question pulled the bid at 10.01, a 3% plunge down the elevator shaft swiftly ensued, taking USD/JPY down to its previous low of 87.10.
"Intervention rumours swiftly ensued, though USD/JPY subsequently squeezed higher along with US equities. But still, it would be quite a statement for Japan to intervene in currency markets in week one of the Obama administration. Such a statement, in fact, that the presumptive Treasury Secretary Geithener made a comment yesterday (admittedly not targeted at Japan specifically) reiterating the US preference (or demand, depending on your perspective) for flexible, market-determined exchange rate regimes for major trading economies."
z.
I'm going long pitchforks...
Someone told me that their banker at Citibank told them that Citibank, BofA, etc. is guaranteeing all deposits, even above the FDIC limit.
Any idea if this is true? Don't remember seeing that one.
dryfly writes:
Two years is a long time in Washington politics.
True. Two years should be more than enough time to pin this entire debacle on O, then relentlessly harangue him for past (or current) sexual infidelities, eventually leading to his impeachment.
Paging Rush, Ann & Sean! You're needed at the right-wing spin desk.
Everyone realize the bonus money is hush money, right? Create self interest for anyone that knows anything to keep quiet.
The funny thing is the first taxpayer stimulus was a carefully thought out approach greasing the way to TARP. They bought my cooperation for $900.
I showed them though, I spent the $900 on food and utility bills...
"...going long pitchforks..."
The longer, the better!
all you revolutionaries would do well to remember what happens to common highwaymen
Funny how thain is being villafied here. it was Stan the man who ran this company into the ground. Thain was batting cleanup. The real tell here is Ken Lewis. Let's not foget this guy stepped up to Countrywide and had to double down as he was so underwater. Lewis IS the guy who was responsible for inking the deal. If ebveryone in the market was scratching their head at the deal and they didn;t have the information Lewis had, doesn't that tell you something? Lewis is toxic and needs to go as well. He is nothing but a relic, a forlorn sign of the empire (of debt) building. The sooner he goes the better. BAC equity to zero and bondolders take it too.
\t S | \t \t \t \t01.22.09 - 1:43 pm | #
S, you are probably right, but Thain floated to the surface on a particularly ill-timed (for him) outgoing tide. I have had it. I want a different "financial system." I am going to write about this one, and the banks' withholding of information in general. I am also actively trying to think about how I can buy less and less and less, so I can contribute my part to changing the system. At some point, pitchforks may be called for. I have one. I am completely mild-mannered, but I have hit my limit. Obama has a mandate to go after every one of these overpaid, overstuffed class warriors. We'll see if he manages it.
The rest of you may be eating squirrel tonight, but I have a great pot of cheap lentil soup waiting for me.
Thanks for the Wood nod - now that painting takes me back a bit. Northern mannerism was my focus of study for years.
@Zach - I posted that bit up this morning!
Americans = suckers
crispy&cole
Jas??
Mr. S.:
Ah, okay. Sorry for the repeat post then.
z.
Perhaps y'all might consider that pitchfork and ammo references and posting of personal addresses is inappropriate, or, at least, might not inure to the benefit of CR.
Someone told me that their banker at Citibank told them that Citibank, BofA, etc. is guaranteeing all deposits, even above the FDIC limit.
Any idea if this is true? Don't remember seeing that one.
SomeArmchairEconomist | 01.22.09 - 1:59 pm |
That comes from Paulson, not the private market.
"Obama has a mandate to go after every one of these overpaid, overstuffed class warriors. We'll see if he manages it."
That will be difficult. Obama raised record campaign funding from people of all income levels. The wealthy (including business) were huge contributors to Obama's campaign. The financial sector, and hedge fund people in particular, supported him in a big way. I doubt that he will go after them.
BofA, etc. is guaranteeing all deposits, even above the FDIC limit.
Pretty easy to do, when you know that your bank is ultimately backed by taxpayers. Might as well guarantee double your money.
Paging Rush, Ann & Sean! You're needed at the right-wing spin desk.
HARM | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 1:59 pm | #
LOL... You don't think they are already there? Hell they had that drawn up as 'Plan B' last JULY!!!
"Funny, I didn't hear about wage inflation in Zimbabwe"
It's just not reported. If the general populace was not getting extra money (in the form of wages), how could the "price" of bread go up a millionfold? Printing money isn't what forces prices up...it's releasing it into the wild, and having people actually spend it (as opposed to saving it) that forces prices up.
Now, giving the money to a select few will cause periphery prices to increase (as wages will go up for luxury yacht builders, etc. etc. etc.), but again, I see that as more of a bubble than a general price inflation.
Moot point, until and unless people and entities can be forced into spending vs. saving (a Keynsian "war on savers") long term.
This bill will come as war.
Elvis | 01.22.09 - 1:29 pm | #
Agreed. I can imagine several different scenarios for how this plays out, but that's where they all end.
The rest of you may be eating squirrel tonight, but I have a great pot of cheap lentil soup waiting for me.
Sue (Capital S) | 01.22.09 - 2:00 pm | #
Yum - I love lentil soup. Can't figure out why everyone else in the family hates it when I make lentil soup. Maybe it's because I get so much gas from it... but I didn't think my gas smelled so bad, it's other peoples' gas that smells... [a political analogy there somewhere]...
Printing money and spending it does cause inflation, and wages will have to rise in response. But the key is "in response"... The initial effect is for the spender of the new money to buy stuff at the pre-inflation prices. So it is a transfer (theft) from everyone else.
market is casino and rigged...
thain did not get a bonus
BUT
thain did get an "EXIT PACKAGE" worth 9.7 million dollars for consumating the BOA acquisition of merrill
go down 30 paragraphs from the top
or 7 from the bottom
Bank of America to Buy Merrill - WSJ.com
Wood
Pavel Chichikov | 01.22.09 - 1:49 pm | #
Couldn't get access to the site:?! But I assume it was American Gothic.
GIMME A 'NINE
Back to 0 so we can open the market!
Nothing is new under the sun, when it comes to human beings.
Pavel Chichikov | 01.22.09 - 1:38 pm | #
I shall grant them no reprieve, because they sell honest folk for silver and the poor for a pair of sandals. They gring the heads of the helpless into the dust and push the humble out of their way.
Or, in an updated version:
Downpressor man
Where you gonna run to?
Organized war is much less likely than chaos and upheaval.
Prime candidates: Russia, Pakistan, Iran, Venezuela, Indonesia, Ukraine, et. al.
All have a weak economic position, yet making war is no solution for any of them.
That little dust up in Georgia has certainly soured the Russian elites on invading Ukraine. Hence pure economic warfare: Nat Gas.
The only actor capable of invasion is the USA... and Obama and Congress will have none of that.
One should think in terms of the pressures being countered by economic tactics even economic warfare.
"America has to start the good bank, bad bank thing"
.....just let the ones needing more $$ go BK - real easy.
"Best form of protest you can take?"
....."adjust" your withholding accordingly or change to 1099.
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PS: Fight the Nemo.
anon writes:
The funny thing is the first taxpayer stimulus was a carefully thought out approach greasing the way to TARP. They bought my cooperation for $900.
With corruption like this, and with April 15 taxes coming up, they'll probably be buying cooperation, and blunting organized protest, once again.
Lots of their cr*p is carefully thought out, like having people pay taxes as many months away as possible from when they vote.
Thain did a great job, suckering the BACbumpkins into thinking they were buying at the bottom.
Apparatchik Zackattack | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 12:50 pm | #
IMHO Apparat is absolutely correct. Ken Lewis was a babe in the woods, pigeon, whatever, and Thain took him to the cleaners just like he and his colleagues did on a daily basis.
But Lewis has won this battle. But he has a war on his hands. Merrill is likely to dissolve into BoA divisions and become a footnote to history. But the pain will linger at BofA for a decade or more.
Sort of OT but there is an interesting article in Vanity Fair about private equity firms. They are all awaiting the others demise.
I am guessing that Daily Kos and all those other loud sites are telling the new COIC that maybe TG isnt the one, or that Thain should be shot.... Does anyone know if Kos has started the new movemnet for the new administratio
But Lewis has won this battle. But he has a war on his hands. Merrill is likely to dissolve into BoA divisions and become a footnote to history. But the pain will linger at BofA for a decade or more.
JohnR(VA) | 01.22.09 - 2:20 pm | #
Pyrrhic victory in a MAD war.
Look at this first picture and understand what is wrong in our country. Pres Obama is surrounded by old white men. No women. No minorities.
I'm tired of the ruling tribe.
Breaking News and Opinion on The Huffington Post
We never see anyone being held accountable for any of this financial mess.
Is it possible that companies which have lost billions have contributed funds to those that are in a position to hold them accountable (directly or indirectly)?
To All:
A protest of the bail out is being formed by the Market Ticker guy, On Feb. 1st mail a tea bag to Pres. Obama
and your congressmen to remind them Americans didn't approve the bailout and we can en masse protest this abuse. The message should be clear.
These guys making Millions while the rest of America sells there stuff on Ebay to pay there bills. But, Ebay's are so high you can't even do that anymore. They will not even let you accept money orders now. You have to use PayPal (owned by Ebay), which charges you another 3% just to transfer money out of one persons account into another. What a racket.
On a lighter note, some of the people involved in the tainted milk scandel in China have received a death sentence. How long do you think Thain would be alive if he lived in China ? I wouldn't want to live in China, but they do know the meaning of swift justice.
Was involved in a take over a few years ago, bean counters and lawyers and public relations did all the grunt detail work, the executives spent 95% of the time figuring out their compensation and how much they could rake of the top and bottom of the deal. What was impact on shareholders, employees, vendors, was not of any concern, PR people would come up with some BS. More sociopaths in corner offices than people realize
Angry Saver writes:
It's not just the I-banks that are in on the looting. Take GE for instance. They are also being propped up by the Fed.
In 2008, GE will pay out approximately $12 billion in dividends.
And get this, federal taxes on those dividends are 15% max. Compare that tax rate to the federal tax rate on your income (work).
Next Friday anyone?
Angry Saver | 01.22.09 - 1:38 pm | #
but GE actually makes a profit?
And get this, federal taxes on those dividends are 15% max. Compare that tax rate to the federal tax rate on your income (work).
Angry Saver | 01.22.09 - 1:38 pm |
The federal tax rate on those GE dividends are 50% maximum.
GE's marginal tax rate is likely 35%. Dividends are post tax distributions.
Then, there is a maximum 15% federal tax, which equals 50%.
It is clear these investment banking executives who stole our tax money do not yet realize that if there is a disruption in the basic goods and services that we have come to rely upon, they will be held to account.
Their fate will be either that of Jeffrey Skilling or that of Mussolini. Depending on how bad things get.
It's not fair. No one told him the rules were gonna change.
Their fate will be either that of Jeffrey Skilling or that of Mussolini. Depending on how bad things get.
char | 01.22.09 - 4:23 pm |
And yet, they think that at worst they will have to reduce their donations to their alma maters.
They will pay in spades. The Cabernet they serve in the joint is swill. Wait till they gave to drink that stuff.
I see plenty of appropriate outrage on this site, but you all are preaching to the choir. Somebody with time on their hands (not me, a wage slave) needs to organize a web boycott of every bank that is accepting federal handouts. A depositor revolt (moving deposits to credit unions and local banks) would send a very quick and powerful message that Americans do not want their taxes used to support failed businesses. Anybody up to the challenge?
A third address on record, 401 Purchase Street, is described as a tax billing address in Rye, but on Google maps and on the Westchester County GIS map above, all three available Thain addresses show up in Harrison, not Rye."
Kung Fu Panda | Homepage | 01.22.09 - 1:18 pm | #
Not that big a deal, they are adjoining towns and not unusual for someone to have a different post office than the school district. I grew up near there and my Bro lives in Rye. Other than a very feirce HS football rivalry, not a lot of difference between Harrision and Rye.
I don't know what I'm more upset about... Thain/Merrill clearly using taxpayer money for one last gorge at the trough... or... Ken Lewis destroying the largest bank in the US though mismanagement.
arg!
Resignations are no substitute for hanging.
Maybe we should all take pitchforks to work with us?
Comrade Kristina
I can't. Security won't let me. Maybe a subversive t-shirt? We can make some money too!
Nova
Go long CafePress?