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woah
Now is a great time to buy or sell jet airliners?
ouch!
time to get a new job.
Just let Citi buy some planes. Then everything will be better.
can we throw a tarp over boeing?
Obviously, they should be offering 10 person corporate jets.
Cave dwelling, the next bubble.
We need a Dreamliner Czar !
General Motors and Auto Union Agree to Suspend Jobs Bank as of Monday
Details will be interesting...
The Market responds favorably to job cuts and the government buying bad assets from bad banks.
Entitlement programs will end by 2020. Mark my words.
They are in Seattle right? Isn't Microsoft also there? And one of the former banks?
And I believe they have 2 million or so square feet of new commercial space coming on line in the next 1-2 years.
Gonna get ugly.
We need a Cave Czar. Now before the bubble.
Cover your jet with a TARP and everything will be fine.... TARPs have been demonstrated to hold up reasonably well against very small stones that float and are expected to hold up to a direct strike by a 1 km wide asteroid......
All priced in, right? The weight of the unemployeed anchor will increase exponentially dragging the Titanic to the bottom. Ben et al will play happy music on the deck in the meantime....
Movement of chairs about the deck is encouraged during this time.....
Huge multiplier. Big impact.
These were the much sought-after "good jobs."
Very bad news for the workers, their families, and their communities.
I really don't know what else to say.
Morocco Bama(Irritating) writes:
Mark my words.
Oh, thanks for reminding me.
Morocco Bama --> (Irritating)
Words marked.
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss. Obama is calling for transparancy: wanna bet that doesn't include the feds' books?
Seattle is getting hit hard-da if many of those layoffs are in Seattle. My brother got laid off as a developer in a small company in December. I've some contacts doing business in China that need skills like his. He may just move there (at his wife's displeasure) , at least on a short-term contract basis.
Is Boeing union? Not that it really matters, but I think it is expensive to layout union employees.
Obama essentially said, the recovery is up to business and its workers.
In other words, "Goverment is powerless".
Inspiring.
mp:
caught your comments from overnight thread. Did happen quicker than I expected but had pegged it for another month before alarm went off.
thanks for the article tip, will read tonight.
my father was a company top-kick in Korea, from start through Pusan to Chinese border and back.
yeah, I heard that "socks" comment a bunch growing up along with some stuff that just isn't physically possible.
wanna bet that doesn't include the feds' books?
The Fed is different. They are private and you can't force them to open their books..... No transparency here, move along....
Huge multiplier. Big impact.
threetorches | 01.28.09 - 11:45 am | #
Yeah this has tricle-down. WA may finally be in for some sad times with MS, Boeing and Starbuck all taking a hit.
wanna bet that doesn't include the feds' books?
Change, my ass | 01.28.09 - 11:46 am | #
This is not the TARP you are looking for....
Getting laid off is one thing. Returning to work is going to be the problem. If ever. Usually they would find jobs to carry them over until getting called back to their "real" job. So now it is a double whammy of evil flaming despair that has been flung onto them.
Don't worry, the Boeing machinists will still go out on strike. It's Seattle, after all.
Boeing to Cut 10,000 Jobs
Sweet!
The fruits of irresponsible greed and gambling.
Carry on.
So for thread music, will it be "Jet Airliner," by Steve Miller Band, "Leaving on a Jet Plane," written by John Denver, or "White Rabbit," by Jefferson Airplane?
Werner | 01.28.09 - 11:51 am
This from a Polish electrician in new Jersey?
I don't think these layoffs really start to sink in until people are out of work for about three months. Then, with little prospect for gainful employment and/or salaries close to their old jobs and no saving left, depression and anger set in. In late April or early May, things could start to turn ugly as far as hostility bubbling to the surface.
They are in Seattle right? Isn't Microsoft also there?
12th Percentile | 01.28.09 - 11:45 am | #
Thats exactly what I thought. Kiss Pacific Northwest real estate good bye. Resi and Comm.
.......................
Elvis - I believe they are. They are always striking so thats why I think that.
.....................
It is all priced in. Go into the light.
Seattle = Big Trouble
threetorches
Well, I always liked Gracie.
We need a Seattle Czar
Entitlement programs will end by 2020. Mark my words.
Morocco Bama | 01.28.09 - 11:44 am | #
You may be right. Oh, well. I'll be 83.
@threetorches - why not one of the worst songs ever... "We Built This City"?
"Entitlement programs will end by 2020."
Several books out on this...one states by then 90% of the fed budget will be intrest on debt and entitlements
The BF (much slower on the uptake than Conjure) offically called it a Depression this morning. He says in one month the Depression will become obvious to everyone. He also says that anyone who loses their job now will not be able to find another one.
Yeah, the NorthWest is officially screwed. No more "it's different here." If Intel, Nike, and Tektronix can't hold out, Oregon will die a short, violent death.
I realize the fed is private. So if they vacuum up all the losses, who takes the loss?
Meanwhile, in alternative reality land . . .
Bank of America to defer bonus payments
By Greg Farrell in New York
Bank of America is planning to defer bonus payments to employees in its capital markets and investment banking units this year, according to several executives familiar with the situation.
. . .
Moreover, having constructed a lifestyle around the near certainty that there would be some kind of bonus each February, some BofA executives will have trouble making ends meet this year, which could lead to departures above and beyond the 3,000 or so cuts that are expected in the unit this quarter, insiders said.
“This is going to cause an uproar,” says one BofA executive familiar with the matter. “There will be cash flow issues for families.”
Look, I'm bleeding tears for the Hamptons
One Hot Chick | 01.28.09 - 11:54 am
Well, he is a cheery sort. Did you have your coffee first?
FDIC says cannot comment on "speculative reports" about bad bank
FDIC says cannot comment on speculative reports about bad bank
| Reuters
This just in The Obama government has issued a recall for defective rivets on the Titanic. This will create 10,000 jobs in Seattle for laid of Boeing workers!
scone writes:
Yeah, the NorthWest is officially screwed. No more "it's different here." If Intel, Nike, and Tektronix can't hold out, Oregon will die a short, violent death.
scone | 01.28.09 - 11:55 am | #
And Vancouver BC is going broke trying to fund the winter olympics. The Pacific Northwest used to be golden . . .
Who cares about Boeing? If we have a strong financial sector, the real economy will flourish.
Right guys?? Right??
Crickets.........
Well, I guess we thought we built this city on rock and roll, but it turns out we built it on credit default swaps and leveraged mortgage-backed securities.
What rhymes with "leveraged mortgage-backed securities?"
Oh mighty Thor Odinson, don't let them do the bad bank until I vacuum out my 401k!
Stealth reductions at Boeing for some time. 2 weeks back sat in retraining class with an old time Boeing cost estimator. He worked on Shuttle contract back in the day - back when $5 billion was real money. Was let go a few months back as evidently Boeing got wise to a lower likelihood of demand for big ticket projects.
First a trickle, then a gush, now a flood.
Go long arks?
Let's create a Bad Manufacturer to go along with our Bad Bank.
Oh, screw the 2010 Olympics... the world would be better off with a breather from the Corporate Mass Games every two farking years (unlike every 4 the way it used to be).
If there's gonna be musical accompaniment then there is but one choice:
Jeffeson Airplane - "Stop, Children What's That Sound?"
There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind
I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side
It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away
Let's create a Bad Manufacturer to go along with our Bad Bank.
We are already making bad former employees...
threetorches(Unrated) writes:
So for thread music, will it be "Jet Airliner," by Steve Miller Band, "Leaving on a Jet Plane," written by John Denver, or "White Rabbit," by Jefferson Airplane?
\t threetorches | \t \t \t \t01.28.09 - 11:51 am | #
Apologies for not choosing from your more relevant list, but during threads like this, I've been listening to 'Dead Flag Blues' Hoops posted sometime ago.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aLjup934Rk
YouTube - Godspeed You Black Emperor - The Dead Flag Blues
Listening to how Bosch is planning 5to layoff workers, the radio news was quite explicit that no German Bosch workers (114,000) were expected to be laid off - the cuts would be made in other countries.
People just might want to start thinking about the difference in mindset between a Japanese, German, French, or Korean company involved in the global economy and an American one. American companies seem to find it easier to fire American workers - and the foregin companies tend to find it easier to fire American workers too.
I think it might have something to do with self-interest and regulatory environments. After all, one of the major strengths of the dynamic, financially engineered American economy is the lack of any hurdles in firing workers, while managers are rewarded with bonuses and higher stock prices.
The market is up? That's creepy sick.
What about Monorail jobs?
Dating a banker anonymous blog
Or, how the poor wives and girlfriends of WS types commiserate.
Just breaks your heart. Muffy, pass the zanax?
@rent-to-own - part of the foreign companies finding it easier to sack American workers is that in many cases, the whole reason for the American plant to exist was to avoid annoying exchange rate and tax problems when we bought tons of stuff.
Now we're not buying tons of stuff so the whole reason for the plant or whatever to exist vanishes.
Newly installed Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner issued new rules Tuesday restricting contacts with lobbyists – and then hired one to be his top aide.
Mark Patterson, a former advocate for Goldman Sachs, will serve as chief of staff to Geithner as the Treasury Department revamps the Wall Street bailout program that sent an infusion of cash to his former employer.
Utterly disgusted with Geithner
Yeah right this is change we can believe i
Oh mighty Thor Odinson, don't let them do the bad bank until I vacuum out my 401k!
scone | 01.28.09 - 11:57 am | #
Absolutely. Clear out your 401 K now, or in six week, watch your remaining nest egg turn into a splat of shell and yolk.
Facing the Information Security Hole in 2009
When companies have sensitive information and systems, they have certain obligations to protect that information. Those obligations are based on a variety of international, federal, and state laws; regulatory requirements and guidelines from government agencies; statements and representations made to shareholders, customers, consumers, and regulators; and agreements with customers, consumers, and other companies with which they do business. When companies do not meet the requirements for information security, whether that shortcoming is willful or negligent, they have failed in their obligations to many stakeholders.
Heartland Breach Bad As Tylenol Poisonings? : Information Security Resources
Entitlement programs will end by 2020.
JohnR(VA) | 01.28.09 - 11:54 am | #
With 50% of the pop on the dole by then, I doubt it.
This might be the thread music for the next 10 years.
YouTube - Nofx - Hobophobic (Scared of Bums) Video
FDIC says cannot comment on bad bank
Just a thought...
Good banks fail there labeled bad banks, when bad banks fail do they become good banks?
From the article: "We are also expecting pressure on defense budgets in light of the economic recovery and financial rescue packages."
That's odd. The bailout/rescue packages were supposed to save jobs, not cause more layoffs!
Utterly disgusted with Geithner
Yeah right this is change we can believe in
km4
Turbo tax made him do it!
Hmmm. All good choices, but because I agree with the dilemma facing "laid off" workers who really have very little chance of returning in the near future, I have decided to go with "Ghost Riders in the Sky."
YouTube - Ghost Riders in the Sky - The outlaws
It is originally (or most well-known) by Johnny Cash, but this is by the Outlaws. Seems appropriate.
Entitlement programs will end by 2020.
JohnR(VA) | 01.28.09 - 11:54 am | #
Everything except your vision plan.
In a related story, Tully's coffee tastes like shit!
Just breaks your heart. Muffy, pass the zanax?
Exit
Wait til they have to start turning tricks to make the payments on the Beemer...the horror!
Boeing with the help of Bailouts could also defer lay-off's.
Bank of America employee's/Boeing employee's/Cat employee's.....
Fuc####k WallStreet Bonus's.
Utterly disgusted with Geithner
Yeah right this is change we can believe in
\t km4 | \t \t \t \t01.28.09 - 12:03 pm | #
km4 | 01.28.09 - 12:03 pm | #
A tax cheat as Treasury Secretary. We really are making it too easy for descendants to laugh at us.
United Illiquid States of America (c)
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 11:59 am | #
May be a tad before your time, but I was raised on 4-Way Street.
Jeffeson Airplane - "Stop, Children What's That Sound?"
...
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 11:59 am |
Buffalo Springfield, actually.
We are all barristas now...
Wait til they have to start turning tricks to make the payments on the Beemer...the horror!
Going to have "stiff" competition from college students trying to make tuttion.
The ACME Corporation is hiring. Demand for weapons, rockets, springs, giant magnets and iron-laced bird seed remains strong. Triple-Strength Leg Muscle Vitamins has a big upside as running for your life becomes increasingly popular.
Is it me or is Starbucks fast becoming a relic?
"..Obama essentially said, the recovery is up to business and its workers.
In other words, "Goverment is powerless".
Well, if he said it, I'd agree. That is pretty much the Fama-Cochrane position that Krugman criticizes. That said, they're gonna dump money out the window no matter what is right or wrong because it isn't their money and they don't care. If it works, they get the credit; if it doesn't, they don't take the loss. This is moral hazard at a government level.
"Wait til they have to start turning tricks to make the payments on the Beemer...the horror!
Comrade Kristina"
Just wait until the have to turn tricks in the Beemer while they are living in it. Awkward for the spouses.
In the meanwhile, China is subsidizing and working to start its own domestic passenger jet manufacturers.
In this Chinese version of the world, the US would be left with nothing, and even it's software, music and films are only something to steal, and not pay for.
I think China is a natural ally of the US. This destructive economic policy is the work of it's dictatorship.
Seattle still has great weather !
Everything except your vision plan.
anonymous | 01.28.09 - 12:05 pm | #
Eye donors will be on the increase. One eye will get you a trip to Disney. Who needs two eyes, anyway? It's a redundancy. Hell, you don't need eyes, period. There's always the other five senses, so you might as well cash in.
If the NW implodes, it will be good news for Palin and the Dominionists. Ick.
China Eastern putting big plane orders on hold.....
apropos Bosch :
Interesting German perspective NOT reported in the Anglo-Saxon press :
(see : 404 Not Found
...Bosch-chairman castigates goverment aid for car industry.
...Franz Fehrenbach...: The government shall not becomme the "rapair shop" for the car-industry, otherwise a "domino-effect" is threatening. Meanwhile profits are falling off (breaking away) in his own company.
German original :
...Bosch-Chef geißelt staatliche Autohilfen.
...Franz Fehrenbach ...: Die Regierung sollte nicht zum "Reparaturbetrieb" der Branche werden, sonst drohe ein "Dominoeffekt". In seinem eigenen Konzern bricht derweil der Gewinn weg.
furthermore :
Electrical cars will play a substantial role in 2020 at the earliest
Elektroautos spielten frühestens 2020 eine substanzielle Rolle.
FTD.de, 11:57 Uhr
© 2009 Financial Times Deutschland, © Illustration: AP
Interestingly, NO date is given in the article, only the time! "sloppy anglo-saxon" manner !
But it is shown in :
"...http://news.google.de/news?ned=de&ncl=1282611691&hl=de&topic=b
Bosch-Chef geißelt staatliche Autohilfen
Financial Times Deutschland - vor 1 Stunde gefunden
Franz Fehrenbach mischt sich in politisch heikle Themen ein: Die Regierung sollte nicht zum "Reparaturbetrieb" der Branche werden, sonst drohe ein ..."
Monorail. That's more a North Haverbrook thing.
Elvis writes:
I don't think these layoffs really start to sink in until people are out of work for about three months.
And then three months after that the unemployment benefits run out, they leave the "workforce" entirely and disappear from the continuing claims number, and we can forget about them.
threetorches wrote: What rhymes with "leveraged mortgage-backed securities?"
Averaged fraud-in-fact obscurities.
threetorches writes:
...What rhymes with "leveraged mortgage-backed securities?"...
have you tried :
RhymeZone rhyming dictionary and thesaurus
A lot of poems posted here seem to be made with such tools (cough, cough).
And then three months after that the unemployment benefits run out, they leave the "workforce" entirely and disappear from the continuing claims number, and we can forget about them.
Yalt
I can't, they "homestead" up in the forests around my area. In a busted RV with a two-holer and an AK-47. Meth and pot and rock and roll.
This is a disaster for Seattle, as Boeing is the cornerstone for its economy. My family is from there, and the rule of thumb is that for every job gained/lost at Boeing you should count 5 more in the economy locally as a trickle down effect. So, 10K jobs lost at Boeing, plus 50K nurses, shopkeepers, teachers, etc. Also, in previous downturns Boeing laid off if it lost a big contract and the engineers would go down to Lockheed Martin in CA (and then the flow reversed when Boeing got the next one). This doesn't look contract-related.
Why the government continues to let banks pay dividends while accepting tarp money is beyond reason and accountability and should be replaced!! Damn Nation
Wells Fargo's board has announced a dividend of 34 cents per share. Many other banks have had to slice or eliminate their dividends as they work to shore up capital. Analysts have speculated that Wells Fargo may need to reduce its dividend sometime this year. Last fall, Wells Fargo received a $25 billion investment from the Treasury under the government's $700 billion financial bailout package.
halbhh writes: This destructive economic policy is the work of it's [china's] dictatorship.
--
destructive for whom? do you ever hear Bill Gates complaining about software piracy? no, instead he goes to China and invests in video gaming, manufacturing, etc., etc. Yes we could be allies and sell something valuable to the Chinese other than Boeing jets. Boeing's planes have been one of the leading exports of the US for decades, the monopoly can't go on indefinitely. But OUR politics won't allow the Chinese to participate in the International Space Station, for example. Lots of pricey export and service opportunities there....
My husband has been out of work for four months and counting. We spent the first two months fighting to get his unemployment. Some of his fellow Union members have been laid off since May.
"Hell, you don't need eyes. There's always the other five senses..."
I guess outrage is an official "sense" now?
I don't think these layoffs really start to sink in until people are out of work for about three months.
For new college graduates, the window is 6 months, which is the grace period for student loans upon graduation.
My prediction is that Congress will enact legislation to extend the deferment period in the next couple of months.
hs writes:
This is a disaster for Seattle, as Boeing is the cornerstone for its economy.
.
Yep. I can see Palin calling for a holy war to provide jobs. Double ick.
President Barack Obama said on Wednesday that he was confident the downtrodden U.S. economy can be turned around provided that everyone pitches in.
Obama calls for national effort to overcome crisis
| Reuters
Hey "O" go fuck yourself.
I guess outrage is an official "sense" now?
Change, my ass | 01.28.09 - 12:14 pm | #
The Sixth Sense is a catch-all category. It can be whatever sense you want it to be. For some it's intuition, for others it's premonition and so on and so forth.
Exit writes:
...First a trickle, then a gush, now a flood.
Go long arks?
What do you need arks for ?
You have mountains over mountains of bad debt you can flee up to .
Did he mean Pitch as in Pitchfork? If so, I agree.
Sinomania@
That's why you see big trade deficit!
Anyway, you do not allow your products be sold to others, then you do not have revenue to employ more people and develop new products. Then after a while, you lost your advantage. It is that simple.
anyone think SRS is buy at 52?
nav is 59..first reit reports tonight...
ask Romania how well s/w piracy did for them....
Ciao
MS
Yep. I can see Palin calling for a holy war to provide jobs. Double ick.
scone | 01.28.09 - 12:15 pm | #
Uh, you do know the Republicans lost the general election, right?
That strike worked out well, I see.
Boingy boingy boingy...
Speaking of boingy...Thread music...dead men deserve a party too.
YouTube - Oingo Boingo - It's a Dead Man's Party
Nostrtovia,
Jobless in Seattle was a great movie
Rob Dawg | \t \t \tHomepage
| \t01.28.09 - 11:59 am | #
Great song Rob Dawg, but I believe it's by Buffalo Springfield.
destructive for whom? do you ever hear Bill Gates complaining about software piracy? no, instead he goes to China and invests in video gaming, manufacturing, etc., etc. Yes we could be allies and sell something valuable to the Chinese other than Boeing jets. Boeing's planes have been one of the leading exports of the US for decades, the monopoly can't go on indefinitely. But OUR politics won't allow the Chinese to participate in the International Space Station, for example. Lots of pricey export and service opportunities there....
the "imbalance" (you can find a lot of articles with this keyword or "international imbalances") of China exporting so much more than it imports cannot be sustained and is partially (along with other pieces) the reason this downturn is likely to last and last, hurting countries everywhere, especially China.
Does China then need to subsidize another industry? It can already buy airplanes at good prices (Boeing is not a monopoly -- Airbus), and even better prices once it allows its currency to rise to its natural level.
America needs a Rocket Sled in every garage and Jet Powered Roller Skates on every foot. LetÂ’s supply the demand that puts American back to work! - A message from the ACME Corporation.
rent_to_own beat me to it, and provided history as well!
Yeah!!!!, for dead thread on cramdows.
I supposedly have a short sale, where they're cramming themselves down over 210k.
anonymous writes:
Yep. I can see Palin calling for a holy war to provide jobs. Double ick.
scone | 01.28.09 - 12:15 pm | #
Uh, you do know the Republicans lost the general election, right?
anonymous
And we have new Congressional elections in less than 2 years. J6P will vote in anyone who promises a fix. If O does not deliver, the Dems victory will go bust just like that.
C'mon everyone. What's with the wet-behind-the-ears attitude in regards to the big O. Do you really think TPTB would allow some FDR-type to come in and railroad'em. Give me a break, they learned their lesson from the last Depression. Now with the new puppet-in-charge (look, this one is all modern! he's black!), the born and bred dopes can think there is change without there actually being any change. Sorry I have to spell it out...
"do you ever hear Bill Gates complaining about software piracy? no,"
No?!?! No!?!?!
He wrote the damned book, SHeesh!
Nostrovia,
My January Strategy report is now available. Send me an e-mail at dhvd_2004@yahoo.com and I will send any CR readers a copy for free. Just my way of saying thanks to everyone in here.
What is the velocity of 10k of cuts?
Gavshire Hathaway(Good) writes:
\tWho cares about Boeing? If we have a strong financial sector, the real economy will flourish.
Right guys?? Right??
Crickets.........
Gavshire Hathaway | 01.28.09 - 11:56 am | #
Long ago my Dad told me that "making" money by moving money around was a bad idea. That was in the late '60s. It's taken over 40 years, but it turns out he was right. LOL
Velocity goes backwards, if that's possible.
Ummm, no, I see O complaining because the Reps are blocking everything, and the percentages favoring dems going higher in 2 years.
Jeffeson Airplane - "Stop, Children What's That Sound?"
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 11:59 am | #
Mmm.... Sorry, but that was Buffalo Springfield, but it may have been covered at some point by CSNY.
How about you and I focus for a moment on those Fortune 1000 companies that are hiring... the places where jobs are actually being ADDED...
Job losses and layoffs are lagging indicators of where the economy has been... not where it is going... so
Fortune just released it's list of 2o great companies that are actively recruiting today... that list is further augmented and shows over 18,000 job postings at just 21 companies all up and down the top 1000:
Help Wanted! Jobs, Jobs, and More Jobs
That's just a compilation of 21 firms... I wonder what that total number is when extrapolated to the fortune 1000 or even fortune 5000!
gne
http://goodnewseconomist.com
Warning over collapse in capital flows
Warning over collapse in capital flows - Telegraph
Barley,
"What is the velocity of 10k of cuts?"
Damned speed-o-meter just blew apart when it passed 182,283 MPS. That's fast.
Nostrovia,
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 11:59 am | #
Dawg, thats Steve Stills/Buffalo Springfield, not Jefferson Airplane
"Velocity goes backwards, if that's possible.
lawyerliz "
In race motors it is called reversion.
Ken, and Wile E. Coyote, LOL!
"averaged fraud-in-fact obscurities" is great, and Wile, do you happen to know if I can get a bulk price on pitchforks and torches? Oh, and a catapult. Just because.
We Built This City
Mr. Sparkle | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 11:54 am | #
...on MBS?
If most of the cuts are union, then I might suspect some of this is revenge for EFCA. I'd expect Huffpost to say so, anyway. OTOH, if the unions get disillusioned with O and the Dems, then the Repubs are back.
I bet gne is Kudlow.
How dare he call himself an economist.
Nostrovia,
Ooooh, no, somebody posted some good news.
Can't have that.
@ Scone,
What is a two-holer ?
I'm thinking outhouse.
bfatz...good snippet, thx.
Mmm.... Sorry, but that was Buffalo Springfield, but it may have been covered at some point by CSNY.
Wrong! Dikipedia has it done by Edgar Winter
@rent-to-own - part of the foreign companies finding it easier to sack American workers is that in many cases, the whole reason for the American plant to exist was to avoid annoying exchange rate and tax problems when we bought tons of stuff.
Mr. Sparkle | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 12:03 pm | #
Not to mention that many of the local (to you) jobs are essentially featherbedded by your socialistic like governments that demand near full employment.
Ummm Rob Dawg - the original song is called "For what it's Worth" and it's by Buffalo Springfield.
For What It's Worth (Buffalo Springfield song) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Off to lunch.
My hub lost his job in early Oct when his entire company reduced to "skeleton crew" due to lack of credit/funding. Found a new job in another state. 35% pay cut. No moving allowance. The benefits suck. But we feel very, very lucky. He can work from home and travel for now, so we're taking our time moving, as we're not even sure the job will last more than a few months.
Meanwhile, we're saving every penny we can.
Oh, and a catapult. Just because.
threetorches | 01.28.09 - 12:28 pm | #
Screw the catapult. Build your own trebuchet!
We're still going down. Where's the bottom?
Wait til they have to start turning tricks to make the payments on the Beemer...the horror!
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 12:06 pm | #
And that's different how?
Comment made several threads ago about how after GDI it was many years before anybody trusted banks, or the 30s equivalent of financial advisors.
I work alongside 6 figure salary people, and a common refrain so far in 2009 has been, "well, I fired my financial planner because I can lose money just as fast as he did, and I don't have to pay a 1% asset fee to do it."
This is a good indicator of a form of capitulation, in that there is growing distrust these people know anything about how the system works. For awhile, these folks were too busy to delve in the details of money management, or watched as their portfolio climbed with everything else. But now, it's dropping hard. The whole cottage industry of pesky wealth managers must realize the jig is up. Not only do they not know the rules anymore, but their flim-flam snake oil approach is a hard sell to those increasingly suspcious the whole system is a sham.
Oh, and fewer people have money to "invest," anymore. Most of these people have moved to historically conservative investments. Nobody is talking about hot stocks these days, not even the shoeshine boy.
Hell, you don't need eyes, period. There's always the other five senses, so you might as well cash in.
Irritating | 01.28.09 - 12:10 pm | #
Would you mind listing those other 5 senses?
"We're still going down. Where's the bottom?
Been Bernankeed"
When you hear that sick, dull, flat THUD, were there!
Just in case anyone else had as much trouble as I did finding a link to Rosenberg's paper, here is a direct link:
Some Inconvenient Truths
That's just a compilation of 21 firms... I wonder what that total number is when extrapolated to the fortune 1000 or even fortune 5000!
Good News Economist | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 12:27 pm | #
"Covidien Ltd., adding 50 jobs." Hey, I own these guys. Been accumulating for some time, afteter the TYC split.
I am also a big fan of reporting the good news as aggressively as any bad news, especially when looking for a recovery or the next big thing. I just do not expect to see it for a little while.
Just in case anyone else had as much trouble as I did finding a link to Rosenberg's paper, here is a direct link:
And a very telling read it was thank you
thanks, sm_landlord.
Velocity goes backwards, if that's possible.
\t lawyerliz | \t \t \t \t01.28.09 - 12:25 pm | #
Velocity is a vector quantity, has direction, and can be negative. Speed, however is not a vector and has no direction. Thats why we have Speed-O-Meters in cars, they dont indicate which way we are going.
Would you mind listing those other 5 senses?
xxxxx | 01.28.09 - 12:32 pm | #
I see dead people.
The whole cottage industry of pesky wealth managers must realize the jig is up.
I hope so. Most of the so-called financial planners I have met were neither very bright nor very well informed . . . and that was in the 'good old days.
I see dead people.
Blackhalo | 01.28.09 - 12:35 pm | #
Well, banks at least.
Layoff's at banks, phone companies, Home depot's or any other retail outlet can't compare to 10,000 Boeing jobs which are mostly 6 figure engineers.....
@lawyerliz
It could go that way, but McCain is already regrouping the opposition, calling for "painless" tax cuts, etc. even as they scream for bailouts. And the Masters of the Universe still have a lot of money left to fund political campaigns. I'd suggest you go over to HuffPost and read about the EFCA kerfluffle. This last election was virulent hatred against Bush, not love for the Dems.
TCA writes:
Oh, and a catapult. Just because.
threetorches | 01.28.09 - 12:28 pm | #
Screw the catapult. Build your own trebuchet!
...
Build your own Trebuchet at your own risk. Our patent attorneys are rabid weasels. – A message from the ACME Corporation.
Anyone buying SKF?
Werner(Irritating) writes:
\tExit writes:
...First a trickle, then a gush, now a flood.
Go long arks?
What do you need arks for ?
You have mountains over mountains of bad debt you can flee up to .
Werner | 01.28.09 - 12:18 pm | #
It's all paper, and gets soggy real quick-
Wait til they have to start turning tricks to make the payments on the Beemer...the horror!
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 12:06 pm | #
And that's different how?
They went from from full-time positions to 1099 contractors with crap benefits. Same as everyone else.
Hey "O" go fuck yourself.
No, fascist Con, Fuck YOU.
Take some of this Personal Responsibility your kind always gas about, show us how it's done. Then you will realize that no one can turn this Titantic around. You are "Conservatives" are traitors, seditious malignant treasonous cowardly scum.
Since Cons refuse to take personal responsibility for what they have done to our nation and instead insist on "blaming both sides" or whatever dodge they prefer--we are all stuck on stupid. It is YOUR rotted treason dance that called up this catastrophe and you will not stop your toxic chorus.
Sure, blame Obama. Whatever. I always knew you Right Wing Conservative Republicans were lying sacks of fetid shit: now you are proving it to the universe.
What it says to read these anti-Obama comments after 8 fucking years of lies:
Pigmen Live Here.
It will attract an element and an anger that will not be what you want.
It has begun.
This last election was virulent hatred against Bush, not love for the Dems.
scone | 01.28.09 - 12:36 pm | #
Does that mean the next election will be won by whoever promises to make the trains run on time . . . no matter what?
"Wealth Managers," typically manage move your wealth to their account. Nothing more.
Uffish Thought
oh! So thats why when I'm in reverse and gunz it, the Speed-O-Meter stays at 0.
Interesting, if I got a speeding ticket while driving like a madman and driving in reverse, I now have a legal arguement why the ticket has no validity.
And we have new Congressional elections in less than 2 years. J6P will vote in anyone who promises a fix. If O does not deliver, the Dems victory will go bust just like that.
scone | 01.28.09 - 12:23 pm | #
You say that like it's a bad thing
.
Would you mind listing those other 5 senses?
xxxxx | 01.28.09 - 12:32 pm | #
x
x
x
x
x
.
cinco x
"What do you need arks for ?
You have mountains over mountains of bad debt you can flee up to .
Werner | 01.28.09 - 12:18 pm | #
It's all paper, and gets soggy real quick-"
Add flour--paper mache.
Nostrovia,
Does that mean the next election will be won by whoever promises to make the trains run on time . . . no matter what?
sportsfan
It usually is. Promise them anything, but give them a steaming pile of shit.
Over fifty million global job losses?
Labor group says world econ crisis could see tens of millions of jobs lost in '09.
BBC NEWS | Business | Global job losses 'could hit 51m'
Now that's change we can believe in Obama !
Wait til they have to start turning tricks to make the payments on the Beemer...the horror!
Comrade Kristina | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 12:06 pm | #
Then that would be, Zander, pass the muffy?
"Does that mean the next election will be won by whoever promises to make the trains run on time . . . no matter what?
sportsfan "
Fool me ounce, fool me twice. Maybe it will work again.
Anyone else been thinking this financial mess, starring the GSE's, was the Bush/Greenspan answer to defeated attempt at privatizing social security? I am thinking there is a smoking gun document out there somewhere, and that is why the banks are not being allowed to fail.
2004: "Here we go again: President Bush is making yet another push for privatizing Social Security, as part of his pledge to create an "era of ownership" if he is re-elected for a second term. In a new TV ad, the Bush campaign is touting the plan as an opportunity for people to "own a piece of their retirement....Most famously, on February 25, Alan Greenspan argued that the massive budget deficits would necessitate deep cuts in Social Security..."
'era of ownership'...sounds familiar? Hows about a creating a huge equity bubble by loaning EVERYONE funny money to create wealth?
Just one of many related stories for the past:
The Folly of Social Security Privatization | Mother Jones
The moral of this thread: Never NEVER never never attribute a 60s song to the WRONG BAND.
Okay, we're all aware now. It's Buffalo Springfield, not Jefferson Airplane. Thank goodness we got that straight. Carry on.
Since Cons refuse to take personal responsibility
Fuck All Conservative Republic | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 12:37 pm | #
Hey, do not pin the blame on conservative fundementals, for the actions of the Neo-Con Republicans.
tell us how you really feel FACR.
Don't disagree with any of it...not a bit of it.
Ciao
MS
Hot Stocks? there used to be a line to use them at the "Power Exchange" in SF,but they went out of business in december...
I remember some old cars 50-60's the speedo would go backwards.
Jeffeson Airplane - "Stop, Children What's That Sound?"
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 11:59 am | #
I just learned this was actually "For What It's Worth", by Buffalo Springfield. I mention this not to be pedantic, but to highlight an excellent podcast I recently discovered, called Lyrics Undercover. He takes a song, gives some background on the artist, then plays the song and analyzes its meaning. Very fun if you know the music (and I find his selections very good). If you haven't listened to this before, I highly recommend it.
FD: no relationship with the show whatsoever.
I think we need some Soul Sacrifice
YouTube - Santana - Soul Sacrifice (Woodstock 1969)
How about you and I focus for a moment on those Fortune 1000 companies that are hiring... the places where jobs are actually being ADDED...
Job losses and layoffs are lagging indicators of where the economy has been... not where it is going... so
Just a few comments:
1. Agree it is important to balnce bad vs good news, but that list is laughable. 18K jobs is nowhere near enoguh to offset even one day of announements of more layoffs.
Untitled Document
2.Regarding job losses are lagging indicator is hogwash. This is a consumer and debt driven Depression, job losses are both lagging and leading. The last two (mild) recessions were business led, not freaked out sscared to death depressions like this. Using previosly used (i.e. post WWII) analogies that jobs losses are purely lagging is shortsided and sounds like something Erin or Kernan might spew.
Outsider writes:
The moral of this thread: Never NEVER never never attribute a 60s song to the WRONG BAND
No, never NEVER never never attribute a Buffalo Springfield song to Jefferson Airplane
I see dead people.
Blackhalo | 01.28.09 - 12:35 pm | #
LOL, and dead bank-like institutions?
Hey, do not pin the blame on conservative fundementals, for the actions of the Neo-Con Republicans.
Blackhalo | 01.28.09 - 12:42 pm | #
The problem IMO is that the former is just theory while the latter is how it is actually put into practice by the people who spout the theories.
Executing the Rosenbergs was an abomination. They were guilty of nothing. How ironic when you consider the damage being inflicted by the greed of these bastard bankers who are still in charge, let alone not punished.
"Anyone else been thinking this financial mess, starring the GSE's, was the Bush/Greenspan answer to defeated attempt at privatizing social security?"
Nope, but nice tasty tin foily conspiracy stuff there.
Outsider,
"Okay, we're all aware now. It's Buffalo Springfield, not Jefferson Airplane. Thank goodness we got that straight. Carry on."
I like Jefferson Airplane better. Besides, didn't Buffalo Springfield cut up all those girls in Silence of the Lambs?
Nostrovia,
Anonymous said: "Anyone else been thinking this financial mess, starring the GSE's, was the Bush/Greenspan answer to defeated attempt at privatizing social security?"
That, or when they realized the government could never be made small enough to drown in a bathtub, they decided on another method.
It's all paper, and gets soggy real quick-"
Add flour--paper mache.
Nostrovia,
\t Gulag Denizen Misean is Toast | \t \t \t \t01.28.09 - 12:40 pm | #
Gulag Denizen Misean is Toast | 01.28.09 - 12:40 pm | #
Still no good in a flood-
"Does that mean the next election will be won by whoever promises to make the trains run on time . . . no matter what?
sportsfan "
Fool me ounce, fool me twice. Maybe it will work again.
Economist Moe Howard 3SU
.
American union types are not like their Euro counterparts, though. Socially conservative J6P types, for the most part. If they fall out of bed with the Dems, I can see them going, if you will excuse the expression, National Socialist.
Don't disagree with any of it...not a bit of it.
Ciao
MS
Me, either, but I only went so far as to refer to Republicans in Congress as the 'allegedly loyal opposition.
Ha! That'll teach me to post so early in a thread...
First time poster, long time lurker.
I'm in the space side of the defense business, and heard a few weeks ago that Boeing is hurting. They lost a few satellite contracts (to Lockheed) and have more projects to be canceled.
Yesterday I just heard that Northrop is cutting 20% of the jobs at Space Park (TRW campus). Northrop already dismantled and integrated the old TRW groups into the other NGC groups. It's also the same deal there: lost bids, canceled projects.
scone, I'm a lawyer in California right now, hoping to move to oregon for some laid back living, maybe prosecuring meth heads.
Is oregon a smouldering ruin? How are things there?
Jefferson Airplane??
Who are they, anyway?
What a depressing day
"Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end"......
YouTube -
comrade eek writes:
First time poster, long time lurker.
I'm in the space side of the defense business, and heard a few weeks ago that Boeing is hurting. They lost a few satellite contracts (to Lockheed) and have more projects to be canceled.
Is this TSAT related stuff or is it across the board?
Fuck All Conservative Republic | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 12:37 pm | #
Hey, I liked that post.
You tought me just a nice example of how I could improve my own venomous style.
Thanks.
- NY Times
AIG Will Still Pay Swaps Team Retention Bonuses
E-Mail
Print
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: January 27, 2009
Filed at 6:33 p.m. ET
NEW YORK (AP) -- American International Group Inc. said it is paying retention bonuses as planned to employees in the unit that sold credit default swaps, the risky contracts that caused massive losses at the insurer.
According to news reports, approximately $450 million is being offered to a group of about 400 employees in the financial products unit. That averages to about $1.13 million per employee.
Executing the Rosenbergs was an abomination. They were guilty of nothing. How ironic when you consider the damage being inflicted by the greed of these bastard bankers who are still in charge, let alone not punished.
Irritating | 01.28.09 - 12:44 pm | #
Actually, when the Soviet Union fell, many old records were released, and as it turns out, they WERE guilty of collaborating with the communists. As for the death penalty, I think the bankers would be hurt far more by loss of status than loss of life. Just my opinion.
"Who are they, anyway?"
A 60's band that thought plutonium was a new form of acid. After ingesting it, they mutated into the horribly misfigured Starship and made "We built this City". PLEASE MAKE IT STOP! was heard loud and often from the miserable followers of Jefferson Airplane.
Nostrovia,
Monorail. That's more a North Haverbrook thing.
Change, my ass | 01.28.09 - 12:11 pm | #
I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville and North Haverbrook.
"There ain't no monorail, and there never was!"
scone, I'm a lawyer in California right now, hoping to move to oregon for some laid back living, maybe prosecuring meth heads
Hoopajoops, LTD | 01.28.09 - 12:47 pm | #
Prosecute or procure; which is it?
Hoopajoops, LTD writes:
scone, I'm a lawyer in California right now, hoping to move to oregon for some laid back living, maybe prosecuring meth heads.
Is oregon a smouldering ruin? How are things there?
.
Oregon is still in the 'denial' stage of grief. If you are looking for public asst D.A. type work, you might get lucky, but the cities and counties are losing tax dollars, both local and fed. The loss of the 'timber payments,' I contend, will put the public sector in a hole, even with stimulus. And housing is still overpriced, IMO, relative even to top tier incomes. We have been drifting down, -16% or so, but we have a long way to fall. Proceed with extreme caution.
On a personal note, I find the place pretty, but boring. It's like Appalachia. No intellectual life. I want to move to New Hampshire, myself, so I can hang in Boston on the weekends.
What about Monorail jobs?
anonymous | 01.28.09 - 12:01 pm | #
That's more of a Shelbyville idea.
"Power Exchange" in SF,but they went out of business in december..."
Well, so much for the San Francisco tourism industry.
I am thinking there is a smoking gun document out there somewhere, and that is why the banks are not being allowed to fail.
Here's a lovely tin-foily explanation, and I apologize for my total suckage at linking...
UN crime chief: Was the bailout the largest drug money laundering operation in history? | Corrente
Hey! It worked!
"I'm a lawyer in California right now, hoping to move to oregon for some laid back living, maybe prosecuring meth heads"
And some wonder why the words lawyer and scumbag are interchangeable.
Nostrovia,
Will there be an IPO for the Bad Bank?
xxxxx writes:
...featherbedded by your socialistic like governments...
"social", not "socialistic" government xxxxx. Slight but crucial difference.
...featherbedded...??
You have to work hard for that featherbed, no free lunch here.
(and no Chineese credits either).
/pats merciless on head.
Jefferson Airplane??
Who are they, anyway?
Barley | 01.28.09 - 12:47 pm | #
I think they were the company before Boeing took over.
New Thread: Report: FBI saw Mortgage Fraud, Lacked Resources ( 0 comments ...You could be FIRST! )
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What others have said about CRBot:
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Thank god CRbot spared me from that dead thread.
Hoopajoops writes: Posting a test message from the IRC Channel... THIS THING ROCKS
CRBot: Killing dead threads deader since last week.
ericblair,
All across the board I'm afraid. A few cancelations (3-4 if i remember correctly), with another one most likely getting canceleed.
When I heard last month that Mission Systems and Space Technologies were to be integrated into Integrated Systems and other groups, I thought that there's no way they can do that without layoffs. That and for a period of time the TRW groups were bidding on the same stuff Integrated Systems was bidding on. So it would be 3 bidders: NGC Mission Systems, NGC Integrated Systems, and Lockheed. Lockheed usually wins..
How about cramdowns for student loans?
If I hear any public official exclaim, "It's not a bailout, it's a buy in" my head will promptly explode...gah.
Anyone else recall over a year ago when GS reduced investment thresholds for a hedge fund, so they could slice the little guy in on some of the sweet stuff?
You tought me just a nice example of how I could improve my own venomous style.
Werner,
Nova's correct. Talk like your Jersey neighbors. They've got style.
Not in Jersey? Prove it. Go to your refrigerator right now. Video a pan shot of the interior. Upload it and get back to us with a link to the video.
You won't do it. We would see milk from Safeway, Keystone beer, and a bunch of processed crap from Oscar Meyer and generic velveeta.
You are nowhere near Germany.
"Will there be an IPO for the Bad Bank?"
Yes, but the bids will only be accepted in Rallod as the Dollar price will be negative.
Nostrovia,
"Anyone else been thinking this financial mess, starring the GSE's, was the Bush/Greenspan answer to defeated attempt at privatizing social security?"
Ha! Privatizing Social Security was how they were going to hide this mess until the next administration was elected. Double benefit: end a useful social program, and hide the damage they've done until they're gone. Then blame all on the Democrats.
They failed, thank god.
I want to move to New Hampshire, myself, so I can hang in Boston on the weekends.
scone | 01.28.09 - 12:54 pm |
Scone, that is my neck of the woods.
I highly discourage ANYONE from moving here. Terrible. Just terrible. Economy stinks. Housing stinks. Jobs stink. People stink.
(I say that to keep the furiners away.
)
Nope. Don't come here. Ever. Really.
"will there be an IPO of the 'bad banks'"
Sure it's called an 'indirect bid'.....works in the Treasury markets...for now.
Ciao
MS
km4 writes:
Over fifty million global job losses?
404 - Page Not Found 7855661.stm
Now that's change we can believe in
Obama !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nahh, It's neither change nor Obama, it's just BBC !
Uh..if we can get back ON topic...
Boeing has been mismanaged ever since the company bought out McDonnell Douglas more than a decade ago.
Assembly lines have choked time and again. The 717, bigger and costlier than any mini-jetliners, yet smaller than Boeing's workhorse 737, was a boondoggle.
The military side has been rocked by scandals. Labor and management despise each other. And Airbus is kicking Boeing's butt and always will, unless things change (for it is subsidized).
The answer to Boeing's problems is the invention of another revolutionary product like the 707 and 747, not quarter-turns of the screw like the 787 Dreamliner.
Airbus bumbles, too - but the A380 double-decker represents the kind of gamble that saved Boeing twice before it decided to hang up its wings and play it safe.
ova,
I had to run out for lunch & just saw your question up thread. No I hadn't had coffee before the BF said that, so I wanted to pull the covers over my head & cower for the rest of the day. He makes Rubini seem like Dr. Cheerful.
420 visitors online, where is CSC!?
Privatizing Social Security was how they were going to hide this mess until the next administration was elected.
Gary | 01.28.09 - 1:02 pm | #
"and we would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling bloggers and short sellers!"
""and we would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling bloggers and short sellers!"
So Bush warns: "Panic now, and avoid the rush"
Can one of you smart economists on this board explain this to me?
A Professor (Cochrane) of Finance at the University of Chicago says
http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.cochrane/research/Papers/fiscal2.htm
First, if money is not going to be printed, it has to come from somewhere. If the government borrows a dollar from you, that is a dollar that you do not spend, or that you do not lend to a company to spend on new investment. Every dollar of increased government spending must correspond to one less dollar of private spending. Jobs created by stimulus spending are offset by jobs lost from the decline in private spending. We can build roads instead of factories, but fiscal stimulus can’t help us to build more of both. This is just accounting, and does not need a complex argument about “crowding out”...
to which a Professor of Economics at University of California Berkeley responds: Time to Bang My Head Against the Wall Some More (Pre-Elementary Monetary Economics Department) - J. Bradford DeLong's Grasping Reality with All Eight Tentacles
...Cochrane's mistake--an elementary, freshman mistake--is because he has not thought enough about how a credit economy works to recognize that the velocity of circulation can be an economic variable and is not necessarily a technological constant.
Cochrane's argument is the obvious observation that either the government can spend a dollar directly or cause a dollar to be spent (as an example) by a business through tax cut. One approach may be better in terms of velocity of circulation, etc. The debate should be on why one is better than the other, not whether Cochran made an elementary freshman mistake.
If I do not get a logical explanation, I reserve the right to conclude Economics is a dismal "science"!!!
"and we would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling bloggers and short sellers!"
Blackhalo | 01.28.09 - 1:05 pm | #
Jiosh Marshall at Talking Points Memo actually deserves a lot of credit for his efforts on that. Ditto Atrios at Eschaton.
Recall that after a squeaker of a victory in 2004 (of dubious provenance, but leave that aside) he was going to spend his "political capital" on privatizing social security.
And there were a couple of handfuls of shitty blue-dog dems (e.g. Melissa Bean) who were eager to help.
freddyinp'town writes:
Uh..if we can get back ON topic...
Boeing has been mismanaged ever since the company bought out McDonnell Douglas more than a decade ago.
freddy - thanks for salvaging the thread.
Your comments point out that, like so many of these companies, laying off/going under was but a puff away to begin with.
In down times, the weakest don't survive. Or at least they are the first to go.
420 visitors online, where is CSC!?
Gary | 01.28.09 - 1:05 pm | #
Practicing the 'do as I say' routine.
To all, thanks for the song correction. So many songs in the iTunes library, errors are inevitable.
Look at that RBS.
Mr. Sparkle wrote: why not one of the worst songs ever... "We Built This City"?
Mr. Sparkle | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 11:54 am | #
Mr. Sparkle, "We Built This City" and Flash Dance" are great for workouts! I can really get going on the stair stepper to both.
In down times, the weakest don't survive. Or at least they are the first to go.
Outsider | 01.28.09 - 1:08 pm | #
As it should be. Makes room for new up and comers in the recovery. I do not know about pointing fingers at Boeing, myself, though. Compared to autos, that is almost an impossible task.
halbhh@
China defintly need its own space industry, that is where the future is? You think it is just about a few commercial planes?
km4 writes:
Over fifty million global job losses?
Labor group says world econ crisis could see tens of millions of jobs lost in '09.
404 - Page Not Found
7855661.stm
Now that's change we can believe in Obama !
I do not see how Obama is responsible for these job losses?
Or are you just taking cheap shots?
Hoopajoops, LTD; If your going to the PNW, and still considering a transition into medicine, UW is a great and highly regarded medschool, and if your going to be earning income, WA is tax free, as you know. The University district is very lively and colorful. OHSU is very good, but their national reputation is not there and their location on top of the hill is no-mans-land. I lived in Portland for a year in 2000, loved it, but then I hung out with a bunch of intelligent, fun, outdoorisy people in NW.
What a bunch of pansies - 1999 and 2001 both saw much bigger workforce reductions at Boeing, this is no big deal
my government is the one that tortured innocent people in secret prisons worldwide for years - I'm American.
rent_to_own | 01.28.09 - 1:11 pm | #
Apparently it is not torture when we do it. I sure would like to see Rummy picked up in some forign land to put it to the test.
TTOD, I was informed on another thread that if we are indeed in a depression, it is Obama's depression. These people make no sense whatsoever, they just see their ideology on the chopping block and lash out...It hurts to find out what you've believed in for decades was all a huge lie...
JohnR(VA) wrote
And Vancouver BC is going broke trying to fund the winter olympics. The Pacific Northwest used to be golden . . .
JohnR(VA) | 01.28.09 - 11:56 am | #
John, can't we jus all chant kum-bye-yah and get with the "Messiah's" program(s). Oh, BTW, can I have a latte please. Love it!
I want to move to New Hampshire, myself, so I can hang in Boston on the weekends.
scone | 01.28.09 - 12:54 pm |
Scone, that is my neck of the woods.
)
I highly discourage ANYONE from moving here. Terrible. Just terrible. Economy stinks. Housing stinks. Jobs stink. People stink.
(I say that to keep the furiners away.
Nope. Don't come here. Ever. Really.
Outsider
Weirdly, that's what Oregonians say to keep furriners away. Hasn't worked yet, but maybe the Boeing/Intel shit will discourage them.
"What a bunch of pansies - 1999 and 2001 both saw much bigger workforce reductions at Boeing, this is no big deal"
Then put up or shut up....I suppose you are buying fists of BA stock to go along with your disillusionment of it's "no big deal"
SFFTT (sorry for feeding the trolls)
Ciao
MS
Getting back to Boeing, they have a lot of exposure in the defense market to big acquisition programs with serious technical and program problems and look like they're going to be seriously scaled back, such as Future Combat Systems and Missile Defense Agency stuff. Plus the huge Air Force acquisition fiasco can't help.
Big, troubled, multi-decade acquisition programs are where the defense budget will get cut, which hits Boeing right in the pocketbook again.
Holy crap...that's a lot of good paying jobs gone poof!
Comrade Kristina writes:
TTOD, I was informed on another thread that if we are indeed in a depression, it is Obama's depression. These people make no sense whatsoever, they just see their ideology on the chopping block and lash out...It hurts to find out what you've believed in for decades was all a huge lie...
Yes. The right wing is blame shifting already. They started doing this about a month before he even took office.
I say we give him a year or two then we can start to appraise his performance as President.
"What a bunch of pansies - 1999 and 2001 both saw much bigger workforce reductions at Boeing, this is no big deal"
Yeah, because they outsourced those jobs overseas and the people took it instead of putting up a stink about it. Now we have an Arab-loving communist in office. Incidentally, his first post-inaugural interview was on Arab television, in case some of you didn't know.
Now we have an Arab-loving communist in office. Incidentally, his first post-inaugural interview was on Arab television, in case some of you didn't know.
dUCKdUCKgOOSE | 01.28.09 - 1:22 pm | #
What is your point?
@ Anonymous | 01.28.09 - 1:08 pm | #
...Can one of you smart economists on...
May I add a question :
why should the velocity depend on who spends that money ?
I guess that answer from this "Professor of Economics at University of California Berkeley" does not make sense, and further suspect that you Anonymous will not get a logical answer since Cochrane is (in my opinion) right .
But I am not an economist, just my personal opinion.
But good question !
Obama is unlikely to be blamed any time soon for Bush's failure - something the echo chamber cannot grasp, as they keep hearing the same things repeatedly.
rent_to_own | 01.28.09 - 1:25 pm | #
I get particularly offended when the rightwing shitbags populate this site. Anyone who is informed enough to be reading here should know better . . . so I have to rule out ignorance and assume the utter shittiness of the winger typing. See, e.g., Morocco Bama.
lawyerliz writes:
Ummm, no, I see O complaining because the Reps are blocking everything, and the percentages favoring dems going higher in 2 years.
lawyerliz | 01.28.09 - 12:26 pm | #
Gee, liz, I didn't know that we lived in a dictatorship. I guess if you educated in ala democratic centralism ala the Soviet Union, it seems natural. I thought loyal oposition was patriotic? Oh, I forgot free speech for me but not for thee.
The Soviet state is organised and functions on the principle of democratic centralism, namely the electiveness of all bodies of state authority from the lowest to the highest, their accountability to the people, and the obligation of lower bodies to observe the decisions of higher ones.
Now we have an Arab-loving communist in office. Incidentally, his first post-inaugural interview was on Arab television, in case some of you didn't know.
dUCKdUCKgOOSE
yeah, the arab hating, 'capitalist' worked out so well....
They started doing this about a month before he even took office.
Ticker Tape of Doom | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 1:20 pm | #
Yeah, they started with CRA wich is asinine given the volume of those affected and the defalt rates.
Arab-loving
dUCKdUCKgOOSE | 01.28.09 - 1:22 pm | #
What is wrong with Arabs?
americansRdeadbeats | 01.28.09 - 1:28 pm | #
You got a new handle, how cute.
I've noticed a lot of nameshifting on the rightwing trolls here too. Once discredited, they typically shed one skin and adopt a new one.
And now, this thread is dead.
Go in peace.
rent_to_own writes:
Even some who vehemently deny they are right wing - remember the ever glorious 'Obama=FAIL' from a self-described non-right wing, FDR despising non-Republican? Or the tone being set after a certain public failure to actually recite the oath of office correctly?
Yeah those are the shape shifters.
Since they do not argue from principles that are logical they just change what they call themselves.
I think they are nihilists at heart.
Actually, when the Soviet Union fell, many old records were released, and as it turns out, they WERE guilty of collaborating with the communists.
Like I said. They were guilty of nothing. At the time they allegedly did this, our relationship with Russia was ambiguous and they were committed Communists. It was not illegal or immoral to be a Communist in those days. Remember, this was Pre-McCarthy and the Red Scare. Framing and executing the Rosenbergs was not an act of justice. It was propaganda to usher in the Cold War and the Red Scare. They were scapegoats.
Strategic Defense Pork is now gone. Boeing had the bulk of that, but unfortunately the SDI headquarters in Alaska was flooded by rain and no longer works, though it never really did work.
Oh well, Reagan's Star Wars was a $200 billion dollar welfare program which I worked on.
The result? I will tell you the top secret of that program, but do not rat me out!
The top secret was that there was no secrets, it simply did not work.
I'm starting to feel all tinfoil hatty...Too many pieces falling into place...
ericblair
Very clever handle. Congrats.
it simply did not work.
M | 01.28.09 - 1:40 pm | #
Yeah that is no secret. Amusingly the Neo-Cons were looking to revive this effort at the expense of all others, until 9/11. I can not get the picture of the look on Bush's face when he is told that the U.S. is under attack. Decicive leadership it is not.
I've noticed a lot of nameshifting on the rightwing trolls here too. Once discredited, they typically shed one skin and adopt a new one.
Gary | 01.28.09 - 1:30 pm | #
Who are these right wing trolls?
Why do you feel an incessant need to police this board?
I get particularly offended when the rightwing shitbags populate this site.
Gary | 01.28.09 - 1:28 pm | #
You left wingers make a career out of being particulaly offended. LOL
Dieter from the block writes:
...Werner, ... Not in Jersey? Prove it...You won't do it....
Right, because I have no video-camera, etc. I just do not care about that.
The milk in my fridge is from :
"Molkerei Weihenstephan Gmbh & Co. KD, Milchstr.1, D-85350 Freising".
Sorry, any other suggestion how I can prove that I am a German in Germany ?
Oh, pick me! You could appoint me as an "identity verifier" if you will. I will require of course, two round trip tickets to Germany, where my husband and I will personally meet you at the airport and verify on your laptop to the CR crowd that you are indeed in Germany. I will also need 5K Euros for travel expenses.
"You tought me just a nice example of how I could improve my own venomous style.
Thanks.
Werner "
No German needs to be taught how to be venomous, comes naturally for you.
By the way, do check out what happened to the biggest exporter in GD1...might be instructive.
Comrade Kristina writes:
Oh, pick me! You could...
Hihi, would be delighted
(if "Dieter from the block" pays for it).
Morocco Bama(Irritating) writes:
Who are these right wing trolls?
Why do you feel an incessant need to police this board?
Morocco Bama | 01.28.09 - 1:44 pm | #
Calling out right wing dipshits is a police action now? How oppressed you must feel.
Why do you feel an incessant need to police this board?
Morocco Bama | 01.28.09 - 1:44 pm | #
I guess the same reason you feel an incessant need to be a hateful, disingenuous asshole: it is my nature.
~~~~Oh, pick me!~~~~
Werner,
This is a capital idea. I think you should definitely meet with Comrade Kristina. Her word is as good as glod around here.
~~~if "Dieter from the block" pays for it~~~
Sadly, the block in America is expensive and Dieter is broke.
But I will wish everyone Bon Voyage.
fried writes:
...No German needs to be taught how to be venomous, comes naturally for you.
Somewhat true, but as you see nobody, not even a German is perfect, and can be thought to improve.
...By the way, do check out what happened to the biggest exporter in GD1...might be instructive...
Naahh, the music plays with the biggest exporter of (useless) Treasuries.
But wait... isn't the Pacific Northwest different? Recession here? Hasn't ever happened before, right? Certainly not if you've only lived in Seattle for 15 years.
First I talked about my Aldi bought maple syrup, now I get to write where my milk comes from?
Fantastic - one liter is from Edeka, filled for EUCO GmbH, 22291 Hamburg, and the other is from Milchwerke Berchtesgadener Land Chiemgau eG D-83451 Piding. Fascinating place, that - Berchtesgaden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
However, it also allows one to see how temporary America's occupation of Germany remains - 'In 1995, 50 years after the end of World War II and 5 years after German reunification, the AFRC Berchtesgaden was turned over to Bavarian authorities to facilitate military spending reductions mandated within the Base Realignment and Closure program by the United States Congress and the Pentagon during the administration of U.S. President Bill Clinton.' Yep, Bush never did have a chance to go one better than Reagan when visiting Germany because of those penny pinching Democrats - you know, the tax and spend ones that managed to build up the surplus Bush was able to blow through with such fantastic results.
Aviation Week & Space Technology | See Inside Page 67 | Dec-01-08 | Zinio Digital Magazines & Books
Constant Hawks
I've noticed a lot of nameshifting on the rightwing trolls here too. Once discredited, they typically shed one skin and adopt a new one.
Gary | 01.28.09 - 1:30 pm | #
Who are these right wing trolls?
Why do you feel an incessant need to police this board?
Morocco Bama | 01.28.09 - 1:44 pm
Because he's a rabid liberal, and that's what they do. Tell other people how to behave, and how they should live. Remember, they are all about tolerance.
China defintly need its own space industry, that is where the future is? You think it is just about a few commercial planes?
jin
Nothing wrong with that at all. And in fact China will gradually develop more aircraft manufacturing without subsidies. It isn't necessary to subsidize aircraft manufacture in order to have aerospace.
I've noticed a lot of nameshifting on the rightwing trolls here too. Once discredited, they typically shed one skin and adopt a new one.
Gary | 01.28.09 - 1:30 pm |
Like you liberal weenies don't do the same. Give it a rest loser.
Misean--
Lawyerliz is sad, with hurt feelings.
LL thought she was trying to help people.
I've read that as bad as things are here in the U.S., things are worse in a lot of other countries.
If this is true, where would be a good place to take the money and run to?
TM writes:
Obama essentially said, the recovery is up to business and its workers.
In other words, "Goverment is powerless".
Inspiring.
Not inspiring, but at least he's being honest.
It's a start.
rent_to_own,
same milk in my fridge, the Piding one;)