Starbucks to close another 300 stores, Cut 7,000 Jobs
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 1:22pm (207 comments)
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SBUX share price to the moon!
Is that with whip?
So that takes care of Manhattan below Houston St., what about the rest of the world?
Half-caf venti no-foam with pink slip.
Now if only MS would lay off another 5K, we would have a WA trifecta.
I KNEW that would happen when they stopped serving decaf in the afternoon!
I guess selling overprices cofee to people paying for iw with their HELOCs wasn't such a good business model.
Maybe if they shrink down enough they will actually regain some of their former glory...
nah.
McD's Coffee....i will get instead....
Yeah, well, my GGP mall has Seattle's Best, thank you.
Where will I go for my $4 brownie?
I wonder if they will close the Starbucks inside the bathroom
of the other Starbucks.
Just when all those Boeing employees finally had some free time to hang out at the coffee shop listening to obscure acoustic covers.
Man, can't catch a break.
There goes the Portland barista/screenwriter/artist/musician "creative class."
Starbucks prospects not so Grande? Anybody reading between the lines this weekend on my Mammoth report could see this coming. "Hoocoodanode?" is for those not smart enough to read CR.
Okay, now this qualifies as a Conjure "Clock Strikes 12" event.
Damn.
Now where am I going to hang out for free on the weekdays as I free-load around the country?
.
well the largest mall owner in the country was up over 12% today. Apparently there is a lot of money out there that is bullish on malls.
I stopped going to Starbucks when I asked for a "medium coffee" and the dude had a blank stare. 10 seconds I will never get back.
I'm gonna miss having a Starbucks in the living room, have to go all the way to the kitchen for my capuccino. Guess thats the down side to the McMansion...
Now where am I going to hang out for free on the weekdays as I free-load around the country?
Back to the YMCA?
Looks like every 1% increase in the unemployment numbers is going to be worth 1K up on the DJIA. Crazy world. Could be back to 14,000 DJIA in only a few months.
7-11 coffee is better and costs about 1/2. The plastic wrapped industrial grade food at *bucks is about the same quality as 7-11.
Unless poseurs drinking overpriced lattes and marginally employable, tongue-pierced cashiers excite you, there's no reason to go there.
It's time to make "grande" mean BIG again and not MEDIUM.
The Starbucks in my garage is in the list of locations to be closed.
My mother-in-law has one in her basement, and that one is also being closed.
I wonder why consumers think we have oversaturated the market with our products. People need the caffeine to stay awake and keep loking for hard-to-find jobs.
Well, if the most profitable and addictive coffee chain cannot survive, then who can?
CR.
Bailout News Links have just been posted. 22 links.
I'm obviously losing control and will soon go over the edge, as you can see from the following snip:
"In this melancholy afternoon edition of bailout news links, our attention turns to the Obama stimulus package. Oustside of being an insane waste of another trillion of your children's future, there is some value here. There's word that we might have some nifty parking garages built at the Orange Bowl in Miami, plus there's $350 million earmarked for STD education. We're all for public sex education here at dailybail. seriously. No Snark. But how many of these patronage projects will actually help the economy recover? None. Zip. Nada.
Face it folks. Outside of the tax cuts, none of this will help. You neo-Krugmanites can kiss my ass. Keynesians, get the hell off my site. You add no value to the equation, beyond enteratinment for the rest of us, who are grounded in reality. Where is your grand, coherent vision for a vital infrastructure build out. It's nothing but shovel ready projects of rank patronage. I thought Obama might somehow be different, but alas you and I and our children are being played for fools once again.
Take a late day ride through hell, as we look at the 20 best reads on what's going down.
And today, Xanax is included."
anyone here disagree with my statements above?
thanks, db
Very nice squeeze in equities. Smell the desperation? Huge set-up there wasn't it?
Information needs to get funded somehow. Keep the pulse of the masses monitored.
Oh, and fewer coffee shops will reduce the pancreatic cancer rates.
Profits are Down 69%!!!
Nothing like Great News to send a stock up 5.5%.
Unless poseurs drinking overpriced lattes and marginally employable, tongue-pierced cashiers excite you
Actually they do. Also suburban Moms with rebuilt hooters work for me also. Often you will find them there on weekends.
Apparently there is a lot of money out there that is bullish on malls.
Nope, just cheap TARP options.
.
well the largest mall owner in the country was up over 12% today. Apparently there is a lot of money out there that is bullish on malls.
Don't be silly. The government (FED) buying government debt (Treasury) is the cure to all ills.
anyone here disagree with my statements above?
Are you Werner?
marginally employable, tongue-pierced cashiers excite you
Now THERE is a straight line that CSC could have run to the ends of the earth with...
Now where am I going to hang out for free on the weekdays as I free-load around the country?
Broward Horne | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 4:35 pm | #
Panera Bread? It's got free broadband......
Only thing to fear is fear iteslf.
Does that make sense?
That's it, my new coffee shop will have the following cup sizes
small, medium, and TARPé
It's time to make "grande" mean BIG again and not MEDIUM.
Meet the new boss | 01.28.09 - 4:36 pm | #
Not to mention that their "Large" is actually a small.
A good read and spot on IMHO.....
Financial Armageddon
@homedad43
In case you missed it, I answered your question about potential gdp on the previous thread.
It's time to make "grande" mean BIG again and not MEDIUM.
I volunteer to do a marketing spread in my tight leather pants.
.
RYL lost $1.40/share, a miss
Ryland's fourth-quarter net loss narrows - MarketWatch
Grande snark = mattress tag jokes
Not to mention that their "Large" is actually a small.
That happens a lot my ex's tell me.
Now THERE is a straight line that CSC could have run to the ends of the earth with...
citizen energyecon
If he were here he'd be all over the $4 brownie comment.
[haloscan sucks]
Coffee Czar?
Frappee Foreman?
Venti Visionary?
Gotta be tuff selling $4-5 dollah brown juice to peeps making $8 an hour who can brew the swill at home for 20 cents.
RD,
good catch! lolz
Banker Be Ninja Men has announced plans to work with Howard Schulz to resell MBS in 400 Starbucks stores internationally in a pilot project. If all goes well Nighttime Theory has negotiated an option to resell 50 year Treasury bonds through Starbucks. Disney has exclusive reseller rights to the Treasury's 100 year callable bond which will be sold through the Magic Kingdom's gift shop
That happens a lot my ex's tell me.
nova | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 4:43 pm | #
You're a dude, right?
Starbucks needs for marijuana to be legalized.
EHP,
"Banker Be Ninja Men has announced plans to work with Howard Schulz to resell MBS in 400 Starbucks stores internationally in a pilot project. If all goes well Nighttime Theory has negotiated an option to resell 50 year Treasury bonds through Starbucks. Disney has exclusive reseller rights to the Treasury's 100 year callable bond which will be sold through the Magic Kingdom's gift shop"
Can't they just make cups and cup insulators out of them?
Nostrovia,
Time to nationalize Starbucks - they provide nearly half of the health care benefits in this country. The US government just can't afford to let an institution that vital close its doors.
You're a dude, right?
xxxxx | 01.28.09 - 4:46 pm
My ex likes telling me about her dating adventures...
She is a bitter women in some ways...
Oh, and fewer coffee shops will reduce the pancreatic cancer rates.
Ben Frank'll
uh, can we discuss the correlation. is there any?
Honda Reduces Its Vehicle Output, Once Again - WSJ.com
Honda Motor Co. said it will scale back vehicle production even further -- its second output cut in less than two weeks -- as auto demand falls at a faster pace than the company expected.
A man looks at a Honda vehicle parked at the company's headquarters in Tokyo Tuesday.
Japan's second-biggest car maker by sales volume now plans to reduce its domestic production by an additional 21,000 vehicles, bringing its domestic production for this fiscal year to 1.15 million units. Such a fall would mark a 12% year-to-year drop and would also be down from its previous plan to make 1.17 million vehicles.
7-11 coffee is better and costs about 1/2. The plastic wrapped industrial grade food at *bucks is about the same quality as 7-11.
People go to coffee shops mostly to hang out. That includes me - I go a couple times a week to get out of the house. Dunno how eager people wil be to perch on a horizontal freezer in 7-11 and browse Hydrox labels.
Perhaps surprisingly, coffee shops are really busy lately, here in Orange County CA. It got slow for a while last year but things have really picked up in the last few months, to the point that I avoid the busier ones because I often can't find a place to sit.
Hey, this is GREAT news for the homegrown traitors of the nation: Conservative Republicans rejoice!
Woot!
Yancey Ward writes:
Starbucks needs for marijuana to be legalized.
If only you could say that with a convincing face about banks the stoners of America would be set. They got every other thing.
I stopped going to Starbucks when I asked for a "medium coffee" and the dude had a blank stare. 10 seconds I will never get back.
I figured things were getting bad for them when they didn't throw me out when I asked for a "large" instead of a "venti".
They used to get really testy about that.
Finally... the moment Dunkin Donuts has been waiting for
who can brew the swill at home for 20 cents.
I think Starbucks may be targeting the growth market of people without homes.
.
OK I confess. Jamie Dimon, John Thain, Ken Lewis, Vikram Pandit, Tim Geithner, all secretly Jewish. My Rabbi has been teaching us Ponzi schemes for years in Hebrew. I was hoping it wouldn't become public, but that Jas Jain is too clever.
Fair Economist writes:
7-11 coffee is better and costs about 1/2. The plastic wrapped industrial grade food at *bucks is about the same quality as 7-11.
People go to coffee shops mostly to hang out. That includes me - I go a couple times a week to get out of the house. Dunno how eager people wil be to perch on a horizontal freezer in 7-11 and browse Hydrox labels.
Perhaps surprisingly, coffee shops are really busy lately, here in Orange County CA. It got slow for a while last year but things have really picked up in the last few months, to the point that I avoid the busier ones because I often can't find a place to sit.
Fair Economist | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 4:48 pm | #
The recently unemployed looking for work via the free broadband?
It's OK. I can kick the caffeine habit any time I want. So I have to go a bit farther to put a cup on my Amex...I mean so what...five minutes extra to get a cup, won't be a problem really. I'll just look up the closest remaining ones on my drive home...that'll do it.
You don't think they'll close the airport ones do you? I mean not that it matters that much I'm just thinking that my be a bit of a bummer.
I'll just nip off to get one now and think about it. I think a bit clearer when I have a cup...not that I have a problem...it just helps me focus.....
Nostrovia,
@NOVA
no, i am not werner.
though when i am as pissed off as i am today, i wish i were someone else.
frustrated, db
Hey, this is GREAT news for the homegrown traitors of the nation: Conservative Republicans rejoice!
Hell yeah!
That's 7000 liberals that can't contribute do the democratic party now!!!
So much for the saying "I can always get a job at Starbucks"
Maybe this has something to do with their current difficulties:
http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/9/8/4/4/9/ar120798402794489.JPG
Fair Economist writes:
Perhaps surprisingly, coffee shops are really busy lately, here in Orange County CA.
That's because they're not at work. More anecdotes: I'm noticing parking spaces at my local BART station are available slightly later into the morning. My parents report less traffic the one day a week they drive to my house to watch my kids.
More news from Oregon.
Oregon couple sentenced for sexually abusing dog
OT--scary chart of the day--plunge in truck tonnage in December in the U.S.
http://www.truckline.com/pages/article.aspx?id=471%2F{8E1C7279-ED27-4C03-B189-CEEEE26BBB12}
(BTW it was last year at roughly this time when I could not figure out why the index was still posting gains, (exports?), but I guess that's a moot point after today's press release.)
I just hope the Starbucks in my right pocket stays open.
Okay, so now folks are talking about revisiting Smoot-Hawley":
Second Thoughts on TradeUn-freakin' believeable!
So much for the saying "I can always get a job at Starbucks"
The last sanctuary for unemployed actors a la Swingers.
...Starbucks to close another 300 stores, Cut 7,000 Jobs...
And where, please is the obligatory "but better than expected" ?
And yet they just opened ANOTHER store in our town after not closing any in the previous shuttering of 600 stores. And this is Stockton, Foreclosure City, CA.
1cs, you said you were done?
please drop it
SBUX just can't help but rain down doom. Doom and coffee.
Doom and coffee.
RockyR | 01.28.09 - 4:55 pm | #
That's my favorite coffee shop in Norway!
I know that by responding to this desperate fool who keeps spamming the comments because he needs readers, I am just feeding him, but seriously
Dailyfail writes:
Face it folks. Outside of the tax cuts, none of this will help.
I don't understand this new republican talking point. I heard it on the radio this morning as well. I understand WHY it's being pushed, because people making money always like getting their taxes cut. I don't understand why it's taking root among people who obviously wouldn't benefit from a tax cut to the "job generating" upper 1%. How does a tax cut help the people who are losing their jobs and have no income to tax? I know theoretically if a rich guy has more money he'll need dog washers and extra bidets and commodes with legs installed in his luxury automobiles, but... jesus fuck I am just tired of the bullshit, I can't even finish the paragraph. It's just so retarded, such a ridiculous, transparent money grab by the rich, and it's so stupifying that the poor slobs greedily suck up one propoganda line right after the previous propoganda lines (deregulate! Let commerce be free!) failed so fucking utterly. We as a people are shameful and greedy and ignorant and worthless. How terrible and petty and defenseless we are from those who would manipulate and enslave us to their ends.
When I stayed in Portland I left my windows open at the hotel. Every morning the air smelled like Starbucks around 5:30 am
The recently unemployed looking for work via the free broadband?
I have Verizon broadband and ATT via iPhone but yeah, I spent a lot more time in Starbucks when I'm not working (oops, I mean, not getting paid) and I don't even drink coffee.
A blackberry fizzy for $1.85 is a cheap date.
.
Starbucks would make sense if they sold weed.
Hoopajoops, I absolutely agree, I'm not sure when they will let go of the "tax cut" meme...The proles seem to love that talk though...Until they figure out it doesn't actually provide jobs or anything else, just more money for people who already have more than they could ever spend...I think I'm passed being appeased, I'm ready for pitchforks and pikes myself.
"Unless poseurs drinking overpriced lattes and marginally employable, tongue-pierced cashiers excite you, there's no reason to go there."
Damn. The Coffee Bean chicks are nowhere near as darkly freaky sexy. My only hope now is the shopping mall tchotchkes kiosks.
My wife works for a small non-profit health policy org that gets some CDC funding. She just called to say they might get more money from the stimulus package.
My pony is coming in.
Junky I'll drop it when it has been dropped. Why can't you use cr companion?
Stimulus job creation:
Chase said Baalbergen performed oral sex on the dog and received oral, vaginal and anal sex. He said Baker received anal sex.
Baker sold three videos for $12,000 to a company in Amsterdam. Each video netted $4,000.
Increases exports too!
Postal regression
So no Barista-cum-Mailpeople, I take it...
Hoopajoops, the tax cuts are not being directed at individuals, but at businesses, both to reduce the bottom line and to reduce the burden of overall payroll. Trying to portray them as "for the rich" is as disingenous as calling Obama a socialist.
Dave of SV- "OT--scary chart of the day--plunge in truck tonnage in December in the U.S."
As CR might say, it's cliff diving.
The Upside:
"(Free Press PLC, 01.28.09) The UAW is proud to announce the opening of 300 new unemployment kiosks in the comings weeks. Free coffee is provided while members get counselling for..."
I have now lived during two bubble busts (get your minds out of the gutter) and the contrast is pretty stark:
Tech/Biotech Bust
Who was hurt: Mainly retail investors that bought all of Abbie Cohen's baloney stocks.
Policy response: the Free market is tough, sorry you got hosed.
Real Estate/Credit Bust
Who was hurt: Large banks and foreign investors. Companies with no cash flow and poor business models.
Policy response: Holy sh$t! The Free market is f%cking dangerous! Bailouts and cash for all!
Remember that anytime the powers that be try to say any of this is for you personally.
Quick - sign the online petition and whine about why they shouldn't close your favorite Starbucks store.
The humility of these people. How dare they.
query_tool(Unrated) writes:
My wife works for a small non-profit health policy org that gets some CDC funding.
Where, geographically are they located, and what's their sub-interest? I've been watching all the local (sacramento) health policy orgs languish on the vine, and my friend in the AHA says they've got a hiring freeze.
Geithner recovery plan: instead of a tax cut, everybody just 'forgets' to pay taxes this year.
Okay, so now folks are talking about revisiting Smoot-Hawley"
People who castigate Smoot-Hawley make the unwarranted assumption that their forefathers were "just stupid".
Likewise with Bernanke and the Great Depression.
I'm really liking the Pandemic of Delusion concept. It explains many things.
.
Starbucks needs for marijuana to be legalized.
I'm figuring handjobs will offered soon.
hey feckless...
are you out there?
speak up.
It must really suck to be high school or college age and need a job right now.
"Face it folks. Outside of the tax cuts, none of this will help."
I don't understand this new republican talking point.
Theoretically it's the one thing that can get money into the hands of people immediately to stimulate spending -- because these tax cuts will probably manifest as near-term rebate checks. Whereas a lot of the government spending programs may take a year or more to really stimulate the economy.
But again, this is just a continuation of the short-sighted views that got us here - that a series of short fast acting "pumps" is the way to keep the economy going. This all ignores structural and solvency issues.
Worse, it's probably just a manifestation of the sort of "print money and hand it out" type tactic that historically has lead to the destruction of fiat regimes during depressions.
ova writes:
anyone here disagree with my statements above?
Ahhh boy, since we have non of that in Germany (at least not to my knowledge) I plead incompetent on these points.
Any tax-cut dollar is a dollar someone else must pay.
Any debate on tax cuts/increases is dumb. There are no amount of taxes that can pay for any of this stuff and China has made it clear we no longer need keep up appearances. Next topic.
China Trade/Starbucks....What they have in common...Wouldn't matter if they were giving it away, no takers.
So last year, been there, brought me here, I'll brew my own and do with out the trinkets.
nova writes:
It must really suck to be high school or college age and need a job right now.
Three of my friends just graduated with liberal arts degrees. Their parents are not wealthy, and they are all living in a house together and living off of nothing. They've given up and are playing WoW all day.
It must really suck to be high school or college age and need a job right now.
nova
Not nearly as bad as it sucks to be 42 and trying to pay a mortgage on one income while watching your life savings get eaten up...
Hoopajoops, LTD
My wife's group is in the SF Bay Area & focuses on asthma. Asthma was very trendy in the public health world a couple years ago, still prominent.
Daily Bail: Outside of the tax cuts, none of this will help ... anyone here disagree with my statements above?
Just one question, Con, why haven't the tax cuts that we have already had under Republican misrule worked?
Why are we staring at economic catastrophe if all these "tax cuts" are effective? Are you a moron, or are you simply a seditious traitor?
I vote traitor.
Screw your self-centered greedy pompous idiot ass for not wanting to pay your fair share as an American citizen, and FUCK your idiot fascistic hatred for America.
You ain't scared yet, Con, but you will be. You will be. (okay, that's Yoda)
Still, I am supporting whoEVER will rip the money from the fat fingers of Con Republican thieves.
Hear me Caesar?
To those who are thinking of supporting the Con Republicans: those with money in times of great crisis become prey.
Will you squeal like the pig you are, Con? Or will it be a whimper?
No More Con Lies.
The recession / depression not just about baristas.
From $80,000 a year to eviction: Hard times in America
From $80,000 a year to eviction: Hard times in America - CNN.com
We'll see more of this
JJL writes:
Any debate on tax cuts/increases is dumb. There are no amount of taxes that can pay for any of this stuff and China has made it clear we no longer need keep up appearances. Next topic.
This is my sentiments exactly, which makes it all the more bizarre that this talking point is coming out of left field AND taking root. It makes NO FUCKING SENSE.
The 10-year benchmark Treasury edged 2/32 lower to 109-24/32 and its yield rose to 2.6% from 2.53% late Tuesday. Bond prices and yields move in opposite directions.
The 2-year note, meanwhile, was 6/32 lower at 99-28/32 and its yield rose to 0.91% from 0.81%.
The yield on the 3-month note jumped to 0.19% from 0.14% late Tuesday. The 3-month bill has been used as a gauge of confidence in the marketplace because investors tend to shuffle funds in and out of the bill as they assess risk in other places - the lower the yield, the more risk they see.
Meanwhile, the 30-year bond fell 2-4/32 to 121-15/32 and its yield rose to 3.34% from 3.23%.
But that's insignificant, right?
Comrade Kristina
I know...
If I was rich I would give you some just for the heck of it. NSA.
mp:
thank you for clarification.
@Hoopajoops -- see that I mean?
More news from Oregon.
Seattle news, sports, entertainment | seattlepi.com - Seattle Post-Intelligencer lo..._dogporn29.html
Speed Racer
(hat tip to SR, who shows just how "progressive" we are up here.)
Two thoughts:
- Will Starbucks continue to offer nice coffee shops (even if prices are a bit high), or will they introduce gimmiks to appeal to more people, but not me?
- It must be tough to organize a union in such an environment.
I know that by responding to this desperate fool who keeps spamming the comments
Hoopajoops, LTD | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 4:55 pm | #
Hoop, CRCompanion.
Seriously.
query_tool writes:
My wife's group is in the SF Bay Area & focuses on asthma. Asthma was very trendy in the public health world a couple years ago, still prominent.
Thanks for the heads up about their TARP expectations. I'll send in an application so they have it on hand and see if they need an ex-corporate lawyer with regulatory experience.
If they moved to the Hooter's format, business might get better.
How terrible and petty and defenseless we are from those who would manipulate and enslave us to their ends.
Hoopajoops, LTD | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 4:55 pm | #
Hoop +1
Also, another +1 for the original Daily Fail parody the other day when I was reading stored comments on my BB and could not post. Cruel but hilarious and well deserved.
I don't hang out at SBUX, but the atmosphere is nicer (and safer) and cleaner than 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts. I swear, that old donut I left on the table in '73 is still there.
@hoojahoops
i'm not even a republican, man. and i sure as hell don't listen to rush or watch the fox shithole network. i'm a fiscally conservative, socially liberal kind of guy.
i don't want the tax cuts.
i was just saying they are the only part of it that WILL acutally stimulate...
i was doing anlaysis, not opinion there.
read my about page on the site sometime, i fuckin' freak out about the debt and deficit constantly...
i won about 50 domains related to the debt and deficits..including the granddaddy of them all thefederaldebt.com,.org, .net and .info.
just wait until i build out those sites.
i'm going to rip people to shreds ona daily basis.
i'm just getting started finding my voice.
everyday, i feel more emboldened to say what i really feel on the site.
anyway. back to your regular programming.
with respect, db
Haha, dj, I knew we were kindred souls...
Here in ultra lefty Massachusetts there are two boxes that you must choose from every tax year. You can elect to pay 5.9% income tax or the 5.3% rate mandated. If those of the bent that taxes are so great and that paying more is such a civic duty, then tell why even in this liberal state 99.5% of all respondents choose the lower 5.3%? Food for thought.
typo above
i own about 50 domains asociated with the national debt.
NOT i 'won' 50 domains
Obligatory:
New Starbucks Opens In Rest Room Of Existing Starbucks
Three of my friends just graduated with liberal arts degrees. Their parents are not wealthy, and they are all living in a house together and living off of nothing. They've given up and are playing WoW all day.
Hoopajoops, LTD | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 5:03 pm | #
Pass them Tortilla Flat
by Steinbeck.
daily bail writes:
i'm not even a republican, man. and i sure as hell don't listen to rush or watch the fox shithole network. i'm a fiscally conservative, socially liberal kind of guy.
You're full of shit. That's about as plausible as 10 synchronized swimmers all claiming to be perfect strangers after their routine. This talking point is emerging in a totally synchronized fashion from multiple right wing commentators. You got this shit from somewhere. Confess. All you do is parrot shit you hear which sounds good. Where'd you hear this one from? I'm dying to know the location of your mothership. WHO IS YOUR LEADER
Hoopajoops: "It's just so retarded, such a ridiculous, transparent money grab by the rich, and it's so stupifying that the poor slobs greedily suck up one propoganda line right after the previous propoganda lines (deregulate! Let commerce be free!) failed so fucking utterly."
The scum Cons at the bottom want a King, and they are animated with hatred toward Others. They are rural ignorant rats who are eager to watch Americans in cities starve and suffer while they chuckle toothlessly about how they will eat squirrels and live off the land.
They are enemies.
Hang one banker, one politician, one thieving CEO, one false preacher and one corporate "journalist" and things would instantly improve here in good ol' America. And it would save millions of lives and give us some self respect again.
is talking point is coming out of left field AND taking root. It makes NO FUCKING SENSE.
That's the beauty of the Pandemic of Delusion theory. Of course the idea doesn't make sense.
The Federal Reserve is Patient Zero, the initial vector of the delusional epidemic. The more they do, the more they spread the disease.
Ahhh, I saw the bulb go off in your hread....
"No wonder Bernanke and Paulson seem nuts! They are."
.
Comrade Kristina
for context: I have a 16 yr old....
JJL,
What I like about TurboTax is that you can play with the numbers to see how big of a refund you can get. You know, kind of a 'what if' analysis.
JJL
No one likes paying taxes, but most people like the police to come when their homes/apartments/cars/cardboard boxes have been broken into and contents stolen. Most like the fire department to douse the flames, and the US military to protect them.
I personally like the idea of preventing TB epidemics so that I won't catch a case, and educating the kids who will grow up to fill my prescriptions at the pharmacy.
maybe you get my drift.
That's because they're not at work. More anecdotes: I'm noticing parking spaces at my local BART station are available slightly later into the morning. My parents report less traffic the one day a week they drive to my house to watch my kids.
query_tool | 01.28.09 - 4:53 pm | #
Meaningful to people who know Santa Cruz -- Highway 1 from the Cruz down through Aptos is a parking lot at evening rush hour. It can take 30 minutes to go five miles. I have to do it at rush hour twice a month.
This past month; no parking lot. Slowdown to 35 or so at 41st Avenue for half a mile or so, but that's it. Definitely less traffic. People I know over there verify it; fewer people working, fewer on the road.
Three of my friends just graduated with liberal arts degrees. Their parents are not wealthy, and they are all living in a house together and living off of nothing. They've given up and are playing WoW all day.
Well, if the employed could all somehow be convinced to spend one day a week on WoW or Evercrack or whatever we'd have plenty of jobs and plenty of stuff. Maybe they're breaking new ground.
It's pretty pathological to have unemployment soaring while salaried employees work Saturday so as to escape the next layoff.
WHO IS YOUR LEADER
I'm tending more towards Timothy Leary. Perhaps you can only recognize delusion by deliberating inducing it, so as to highlight where the boundaries of Reality lie.
.
Fuck All Conservative Republic writes: They are rural ignorant rats who are eager to watch Americans in cities starve and suffer while they chuckle toothlessly about how they will eat squirrels and live off the land.
You should rephrase to say, "southern and rural ignorant..."
Starbucks does not sell coffee, it sells an environment in which you can buy coffee.
Three of my friends just graduated with liberal arts degrees. Their parents are not wealthy, and they are all living in a house together and living off of nothing. They've given up and are playing WoW all day.
Hoopajoops, LTD | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 5:03 pm | #
Pass them Tortilla Flat by Steinbeck.
double inverse recession | 01.28.09 - 5:11 pm | #
Dago red's not as cheap as it used to be.
Nice Steinbeck reference. Last xmas, they decided would be no Xmas, lest they become postmodern 'gift of the magi' characters. Folks were selling off collectibles and tech gear like noone's business.
DailyBail: "i don't want the tax cuts. i was just saying they are the only part of it that WILL acutally stimulate...
i was doing anlaysis, not opinion there."
You are a tool. So, Analysis-boy, why haven't all the other tax cuts served to prevent this financial catastrophe?
You seem to "think" the rich need tax relief. You Are a Tool. And I am being charitable in this comment. Trust.
Btw, you misspell just like a Con. The stink is all over you.
No More Con Lies.
Joe,
Absolutely. I believe in services for taxes too, otherwise I would live in a hole in Montana. See, we cannot argue something like tax policy because the central construct (the state is using your taxes correctly) is a non starter due to mismanagement, waste, fraud, and outright theft. Again, next topic.
Aside: Liberal arts degress have always guaranteed a tough job market. Try physics or biotech and there are jobs aplenty for good money.
No one likes paying taxes, but most people like the police to come when their homes/apartments/cars/cardboard boxes have been broken into and contents stolen. Most like the fire department to douse the flames, and the US military to protect them.
joe shmoe | 01.28.09 - 5:13 pm | #
You left out the part about the wooden arrows.
I'm getting worried about what I'm not hearing from China's construction sector
Counterpointer, your alarms have to going off
Chongqing is absolutely ridiculous
It feels like the movie Speed without Keannu Reeves to save us all
it sucks to be 42 and trying to pay a mortgage on one income while watching your life savings get eaten up...
Don't worry, Kristina. By the time you hit 50, you realize you're screwed no matter what so it gets easier.
It's amazing that my country and corporations have managed to take a raging workaholic who had no work and completely demotivate him by continuously insisting that liars and cheaters are a better value.
I finally just quit disagreeing with them. Carry on, Predator Society!
.
Bernanke and Paulson nuts, Nah, Just off their meds. Quick taking them last year, been on a bipolar/rollacoaster ride every sence.
Fuck All Conservative Republicans... FACR... could be Fuck All Republican Conservatives, FARC... I like your style. I can't vent totally with this light hearted handle, but I wish I could.
Dailybail writes:
read my about page on the site sometime, i fuckin' freak out about the debt and deficit constantly...
The best way to deal with the deficit is massive stimulus and tax cuts, or tax cuts alone... I understand totally.
You fruitcake.
MP pls give conjure a scratch behind the ears for the Rosenberg link.
If anyone has an opinion on this I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to pull the trigger on a long term care policy, but can't decide if these are being woefully under-priced relative to what they promise (i.e., $134 per month for $180 of daily coverage with 5% inflation rider.)
@hoojahoops
i got it from my brain.
why would i lie to you or anyone else here for heaven's sake.
i love you guys.
i read 400 articles per day as part of what i do at dailybail
400.
rush is a pig to me honestly. i don't even get why you doubt me.
i'm against ALL spending beyond our means.
balanced budgets even in times of crisis are what i believe in.
plus i like ganja too.
you are definitely misreading me.
who remeembers the pennykasich bill of the early 90's that ALMOST saved us from all our current debt problems.
we were so close on that day. and alas look where we are now.
db
instead of being a servant, finance had become the economys master.
Martin Wolf
Lot of Cuculus canorus eggs abound here.
Ben Frank'll Tank Bernanke,
Oh it matters, and mostly to our new, shiny, vociferous ideologue with the spiffy name, problem is he doesn't get the totality of his futility yet....
As for Angry Democrat, above....
Hey scary smart Republican hater, I agree with you, but see, the problem you have is as Ben Frank'll Tank Bernanke is outlining, the utter inability to fund day to day operations of the Federal government. You are thinking structural and policy, and not recognizing that the time to worry about that was 20 years ago. What you SHOULD be thinking about, is cash flow. Here. Now.
Your ideals and your anger, while commendable and important to you, are minuscule concerns compared to our countries CASH FLOW problems.
Whats
Important
Now
W I N. For you, personally, not how is should be, but what IS.
Charles Kiting writes: I'm figuring handjobs will offered soon.
I really don't think we have time for that, Charles.
Ersatz Starbucks:
1 cup coffee
1/2 cup milk
1/4 cup sugar free vanilla syrup
1 cup ice shavings
Blend in blender
Well, if the employed could all somehow be convinced to spend one day a week on WoW or Evercrack or whatever we'd have plenty of jobs and plenty of stuff.
Fair Economist
.
That's what O was driving at in the inaugural speech. At my DH's company, there is already wide informal agreement on this. They'd all rather take a paycut/work fewer hours. But demand destruction is increasing, and may overwelm everyone anyway.
The die has been cast and the country we grew up in has shifted. The economic crisis has been building for over 30 years and can no longer be deferred. Jobs are being cut in anticipation of even larger losses and economic slow down. Services will be cut and the dollar will tank regardless of the stimulus simply due to loss of credit in a debt based economy. People will buy less and live very simple lives. Local economies will flatline and most will struggle to make it.
The norm of mankind's living standard is a subsistence existence. The majority of people on the planet live this life. The bells and whistles we enjoy are going away but they were distractions and actually lessened having a meaningful life. Being poor isn't the end of the world nor should it be feared. Living a life in constant fear of loss or simply seeking to attain the next bauble is worthless.
Who we are as a people will be revealed and then it will change. Make the effort to see what can be created out of this societal shift and then work hard at supporting that vision.
What choices do you have? What changes can you make? What community goals can you develop or support?
Simply turn away from the rage building against a system that stopped caring about you an your family a long time ago. Ignoring the system as much as possible and opting out will over time destroy the system working so hard to destroy you. You get one life, one chance, one future.
I'm tending more towards Timothy Leary. Perhaps you can only recognize delusion by deliberating inducing it, so as to highlight where the boundaries of Reality lie.
.
Broward Horne | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 5:14 pm | #
Did you ever attend a Human Be-In ?
Human Be-In - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the Be-In later spawned a series of Digital Be-Ins and I went to a couple of these in the early 1990's...great event !
dailybail, you're a hoot.
crazy crazy hoot.
maybe you get my drift.
I get your drift: dosage doesn't matter.
That's a pretty stupid drift.
Yes, when running trillion dollar deficits, its a great time to cut taxes!
why haven't all the other tax cuts served to prevent this financial catastrophe?
Why haven;t all the other spending increases prevented this catastrophe?
You wanna shift spending from one budget to another? Be my guest. You wanna bilk even more money out of me? You're a charlatan.
briwerk(Unrated) writes:
Yes, when running trillion dollar deficits, its a great time to cut taxes!
No you fool, you see, we have to do this thing
FOR THE NATIONAL DEFICIT
I HATE HATE HATE the national DEFICIT
This has to be true
after all
I got it from my brain!!!!
JJL writes:
Joe,
Absolutely. I believe in services for taxes too, otherwise I would live in a hole in Montana. See, we cannot argue something like tax policy because the central construct (the state is using your taxes correctly) is a non starter due to mismanagement, waste, fraud, and outright theft. Again, next topic.
same argument as this
someone once counterfitted a bunch of money, therefore all of your money is now worthless.
someone once got sick and died from drinking water that carried typhoid, therefore we should never drink water again.
The same critique holds for business tax cuts. Companies with large incomes (the rich) still have no greater incentive to consume (make capital expenditures) in a declining business environment, so they just hoard the money to prepare for the next losses. Companies that are doing poorly (the poor) have nothing to tax.
The business tax cuts don't change the rate of return analysis, you just have some firms with more money to not spend.
Poor Washington and those inbred deadbeats at Valley forge, wrapped their feet in rags even, did'n even have their LE pedigrees. Pure futility.
Let's just have a f*cking civil war, class warfare with weapons and be done with it.
No More Con Lies.
Jas's link to Rothbard article might be a more accurate picture IMO.
Wall Street, Banks, and American Foreign Policy by Murray N. Rothbard
For a different take. Henry K liu from a week ago.
Asia Times Online :: Asian news and current affairs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shnaps writes:
Charles Kiting writes: I'm figuring handjobs will offered soon.
I really don't think we have time for that, Charles.
Shnaps | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 5:19 pm |
+1
Is Jean Claude Van Dam dead?
"tax cuts"...ugh!
Yes they've worked so well in the past, they've managed to produce thousands of "jobs" that held on for the last 10 year's or so that really shouldn't have been there.
But I see how the argument is made to support them....it's wrong and classically shortsighted but if it "worked" once why not?
Just don't plan on it "working out" so well this time...
Ciao
MS
Daily Bail, it's great you smoke ganja and all (wtf?) but you didn't address the point:
Why haven't all the Bush tax cuts prevented this financial meltdown?
I mean, if these tax cuts are so stimulative and all, it seems a bit strange that we are sliding into Depression.
The norm of mankind's living standard is a subsistence existence. The majority of people on the planet live this life. The bells and whistles we enjoy are going away but they were distractions and actually lessened having a meaningful life. Being poor isn't the end of the world nor should it be feared. Living a life in constant fear of loss or simply seeking to attain the next bauble is worthless.
Simmeringhope | 01.28.09 - 5:20 pm | #
Only problem with all that is that we don't have to be poor. Everybody can live a good, environmentally sustainable life. We just have to put our minds to it.
Don't be too quick to give in to bicycle-powered grain grinders and sandals made from old tire rubber -- unless that sort of thing turns you on.
Starbucks website is jammed. People looking to see if their local is dead, presumably.
Dawn Spinner Davis, 26, a beauty writer, said the downward-trending graphs began to make sense when the man she married on Nov. 1, a 28-year-old private wealth manager, stopped playing golf, once his passion. One of his best friends told me that my job is now to keep him calm and keep him from dying at the age of 35, Ms. Davis said. Its not what I signed up for.
New Thread: Truck Tonnage Index: Cliff Diving ( 5 comments )
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: Mibbit IRC client widget (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
What others have said about CRBot:
Gary writes: This CRbot is pretty nifty.
EvilHenryPaulson writes: CRBot is great on mobiles
Loudocracy writes:
Thank god CRbot spared me from that dead thread.
Hoopajoops writes: Posting a test message from the IRC Channel... THIS THING ROCKS
CRBot: Killing dead threads deader since last week.
" Only problem with all that is that we don't have to be poor. Everybody can live a good, environmentally sustainable life. We just have to put our minds to it.
Don't be too quick to give in to bicycle-powered grain grinders and sandals made from old tire rubber -- unless that sort of thing turns you on."
Wanting a good life without dependence on superfluous possessions and shallow distractions doesn't imply misery.
W I N. For you, personally, not how is should be, but what IS.
Senorito American Mugabe | 01.28.09 - 5:19 pm | #
Whip Inflation Now?
"tax cuts"...ugh!
Yes they've worked so well in the past, they've managed to produce thousands of "jobs" that held on for the last 10 year's or so that really shouldn't have been there.
But I see how the argument is made to support them....it's wrong and classically shortsighted but if it "worked" once why not?
In a way it's almost exactly the same thing as rate cuts. In fact the effect may be precisely the same, with only the mechanism being used to pump more dollars into the economy being different.
More print and pump economics that's characteristic of inflationary fiat regimes.
I'm surprised the monetarists haven't hopped on board with this one.
Seems like their kind of thing.
@ hoops
i still don't get why you are so riled up.
here are my personal beliefs.
i'm a short seller by nature in the markets. i like to prey upon weakenss.
i don't want any tax cuts. i don't support any tax cuts.
i would support tax increases.
i don't want any new spending.
i want government to shrink by 25%.
i want a balanced budget EVEN in times of fiscal crisis.
i want state governments to shrink.
i want governments to run surpluses.
i voted for bush in 2000(fooled into thinking he would cut spending)
i voted for kerry in 2004.
i voted and campaigned a little for obama last november.
i will not engage you any further.
now, lay the fuck off.
Simmeringhope,
You seem to a believer in fate.. I have a newsflash for you. There is no path, fate, "normal" or equilibrium. It is your mind that creates those concepts.
It is also your mind that makes many things 'real' or 'unreal'. Is money real? Is religion real? Does your life have any meaning or destination? Does your life have any purpose? The answer is sadly- NO! It is the interaction of possibilities and your desires that creates most of what you call "reality"- nothing else.
Best to avoid in first place, second backing off.
YouTube - How to Survive a Knife Attack to the Back
"i want governments to run surpluses."
OK, that officially means you have no idea what you are talking about in any context.
Whatever happened to "for better and worse, in sickness and in health"
______________________________________Dawn Spinner Davis, 26, a beauty writer, said the downward-trending graphs began to make sense when the man she married on Nov. 1, a 28-year-old private wealth manager, stopped playing golf, once his passion. One of his best friends told me that my job is now to keep him calm and keep him from dying at the age of 35, Ms. Davis said. Its not what I signed up for.
Anonymous | 01.28.09 - 5:29 pm | #
ac-
trickle down tax cuts...
pretty sad that's where were at now.
Didn't work with Reagan...won't work now..
Ciao
MS
@1966
get real, man.
it happens all the time. plenty of states run surpluses, even now.
check indiana for example.
we are running a surplus during this recession.
think before you post.
i was talking about munis, states as well as the federal gov't.
and relax.
trickle down tax cuts...
pretty sad that's where were at now.
Didn't work with Reagan...won't work now..
Ciao
MS
MS | 01.28.09 - 5:49 pm | #
Tax cuts worked for the top 1%, which is who they were designed for afterall. The trickle down stuff was just a sales pitch - which fooled the congress critters into voting for it.
ow, lay the fuck off.
daily bail
fuck you crackerboy, go back to pimping your lameass blog
Real Estate/Credit Bust
Who was hurt: Large banks and foreign investors. Companies with no cash flow and poor business models.
Policy response: Holy sh$t! The Free market is f%cking dangerous! Bailouts and cash for all!
Remember that anytime the powers that be try to say any of this is for you personally.
JJL | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 5:00 pm | #
WTFAYTA?
It's the "i want surpluses" part that I find baffling...particularly when you also attest to desiring balanced budgets? A surplus is not a state of equilibrium. It's evidence of an inefficiency somewhere in the system.
Whatever.
It must really suck to be high school or college age and need a job right now.
Three of my friends just graduated with liberal arts degrees. Their parents are not wealthy, and they are all living in a house together and living off of nothing. They've given up and are playing WoW all day.
Hoopajoops, LTD | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 5:03 pm | #
Could they do some volunteer work?
George Bush is NOT a Republican.
@dailybail less
you are hoops and you lost the argument.
you completely misread me and now you have scurried away like a little boy and changed your handle to attack.
leave it alone.
you mistook me at first.
leave it at that.
my views are plain for all to see.
and i'm doing something about it.
and today msnbc noticed and got in touch with me.
they want to do a profile becasue they believe i ahve touched a chord with the american people about the bailouts.
do you ahve any idea what my traffic has been like lately.
14,000 uniques just today so far.
i don't need to talk about the site any more.
people already have found us.
again, seriously, back off.
and today msnbc noticed and got in touch with me.
daily bail | Homepage | 01.28.09 - 6:01 pm | #
Made me laugh out loud.
Someone has it right:
Britain is facing return of three-day week
Shorter hours would be preferable to mass unemployment, say government sources
Britain is facing return of three-day week -
UK Politics, UK - The Independent
You know, kind of a 'what if' analysis.
RuffRednsore | 01.28.09 - 5:12 pm | #
Timmy, that you?
daily bail writes:
@dailybail less
it's dailey ball less crackerboy, meaning no balls, got it?
gh!
Yes they've worked so well in the past, they've managed to produce thousands of "jobs" that held on for the last 10 year's or so that really shouldn't have been there.
But I see how the argument is made to support them....it's wrong and classically shortsighted but if it "worked"
Thought it was unending credit that make this problem.
They've given up and are playing WoW all day.
Clearly, mithril swords will get you through times of no work better than work will get you through times of no mithril swords.
Is there any information like this that is state specific?
Whatever happened to "for better and worse, in sickness and in health"
Second wives with boob jobs.
We as a people are shameful and greedy and ignorant and worthless. How terrible and petty and defenseless we are from those who would manipulate and enslave us to their ends.
I won't stand for you talking trash about the nation that invented the Hummer, twice elected George Bush, taught Iceland to become a casino and found the time to run a day care service in Abu Ghraib.
Credit where it's due, mon frere!
Starbucks was great at raising people's consciousness about the terrible quality of the coffee served in much of the US. I have noticed that coffee elsewhere these days is a bit better than it used to be. But these days people just don't feel they can afford giant sized cups of overpriced coffee at starbucks. Not to mention hugely fattening coffee "desert" drinks they specialize in.
They should try to lower their prices and make their servings smaller.
OK, that's it. Where do I load that CR companion? I don't really mind idiots like Daily Bail if they do it quietly in their own bedroom, but seeing him pleasuring himself in public is just too much.
I guess the object lesson is that health care costs + minimum wage for unskilled workers is more than all but the boomingest economy can handle.
I stopped going to starbucks when the "baristas" refused to give me change when I ordered a small cup of coffee. They felt that they were somehow entitled to their "tip" for pouring some liquid into a cup.
no mas writes:
I stopped going to starbucks when the "baristas" refused to give me change when I ordered a small cup of coffee. They felt that they were somehow entitled to their "tip" for pouring some liquid into a cup.
You too, huh? I thought it was just me. I got around that by loading up a gift card.
People helping themselves to a tip pisses me off royally.
you can buy better beans. and make your own. for a fraction of the post.
starbucks was the outgrowth of bushism.
let us show the world were bushism will get you. nowhere.
and i am not even going to tell you about howard schultz and his affection for zionist genocide. how he supports the mass murdering of palestinian noncombatants.
i think we should show the zionists how much we dislike their pursuit of palestinian genocide. short starbucks. and stop buying their products.
let us show the world what a coherent objection to israeli mass murder can achieve.
death to starbucks.
Starbucks near me has a fireplace and cozy chairs. There's an independent cafe around the corner I usually go to (free wifi, much better coffee), but sometimes that fire in the fireplace is nice, esp. as i don't have one at home.
"After several weeks of searching, he took the only job he could get -- a Domino's pizza delivery man, a job that would cover the family's expenses."