China. Who are you? What ae your motives? Please don't crush us.

China's a fad.

Maybe they could do a leveraged buyout of the US. In order to put pressure on China to close quickly and at a reasonable price, we can approach the Somali Pirates for "other talks."

As China's problems burgeon, its attitude toward its biggest debtor, the US, will get nastier.

At some point it will demand that its dollar reserves be redeemed in hard assets rather than rapidly-devaluing dollars.

I imagine they'll take gold, and natural resources, and ag products, but I doubt they'll accept unsold McMansions.

At some point, the public may rebel at this takeover of US assets.

Then it's "hello, National Socialism, welcome to America. By the way, which one of you is Hitler?"

CR, why do "poor" countries like China (and other "devloping" nations) lend the US so much money? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Aren't we supposed to be the fat cats???

China will not save Western banks

Except they already are. Where do they think the TARP money comes from?

AllenM, good to see you on the board.

Are you still a proponent of the 'stagflation' ending to all this, or has your thinking changed?

I am beginning to think that we won't be stable enough for stagflation.

We will end up in some twilight lifesupport socialism with a vicious black market in anything of exportable value. I have been watching Craigslist and Ebay for a while, and denial is thick for the common person on the street.

How's that for sufficiently grim.

I have to go see the doc about my ulcers, they have been acting up severely. So I will be going long more antacids, and short spicy foods.

In other words, I need a nap, and some time off of work.

Someday this war's gonna end...

Reminds me of that cartoon with the waterbird eating the frog, but the frog has its hands around the bird's throat.

China should loosen up...have some fun. Sell a couple hundred billion in Treasury, longer dated stuff, just to pull Ben's chain.
It be a nice tug of war there...
Hey guys 4.5%... watch this..
At least the news wouldn't be so..like...droll.

I didn't say who was stupider. I am not sure who was.

job losses announced tomorrow could be 500K?
Comrade-Dope jg (jg)

Actual num I get is 627k

The Chinese are idiots.

Naive about capitalism might apply to their government.

Be nice to the countries/banks/brokers that lend you money?

Don't blame the borrower for the lousy underwriting.

The Dubai investors will all be sayin': whoculdaknode?

Great...more damn good news.

The Recesssion Metastasizes To The Bone
There are a lot of pieces of data about what is happening to the economy, perhaps too many to make any sense of them.

In the last day or so, two stand out. One is tha Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson may elect to drive down interest rates for new home buyers, perhaps as low as 4.5%, using Fannie Mae (FNM) and Freddie Mac (FRE) as his instruments. Any observer would look at the news and say that Treasury can finally see that saving banks will not solve the problems of the economy. Working from the top down has been a failure.

The other more frightening bit of information is that Goldman Sachs (GS) believes that the nation lost 400,000 jobs last month. Most economists have that number close to 300,000. Goldman is saying unemployment is moving toward 7%. There is no data from the business or financial sectors to indicate that any jobs are being created. A look at the headlines reads a bleeding out of more jobs, sometimes tens of thousands a day. That leaves out all of the small companies cutting back. Those never make the evening news, but, in total, the destruction of entrepreneurial ventures may be going on at record rates.

Manufacturing, retail sales, and consumer spending are falling so fast that the effect is geometric now. This means that intervention is going from being a solution with fair prospects to one which is approaching futility. The government could be criticized for putting money into the economy too slowly, but it may be that the timing would not have mattered. The circle of jobs destroying housing destroying consumer spending destroying jobs may be too powerful.

A lot of analysts say that this recession will be worse than any other since WWII. It should not be lost on people that the federal government did not sit on the sidelines in 1974 and 1981. It could not do enough to keep GDP from shrinking and joblessness from rising to 10% or so. Another way to look at it is that some downturns are so vicious that they cannot be prevented by huge infusions of capital and better regulation.

The new administration will continue to try to "save" the economy, the housing market, and jobs. At the core of getting elected to national office is the promise that the world will get better. It is like telling a child that it is OK that is father is out of a job.

The solution to the problem is simple and it may be a long way off. At some point everything will be so cheap that businesses and consumers will start buying even if they have little access to money. Homes will become ludicrous bargains. So will cars and airplane trips to Florida. Businesses will be able to buy goods and services for unprecedented prices which have not been seen for decades. Businesses will hire because they can get employees for a fraction of what they paid them in 2006 and 2007.

It is impossible to predict if despair will turn into mayhem, a confusion of the system where businesses begin to fail are astonishing rates and people cannot find work of any kind.

But, it will have to get close to that before the economy finds a bottom

Douglas A. McIntyre

This following will be the next hedge fund scam we'll be reading about:

Imagine this. 30% of the "investors" file for withdrawals within 60 days, say 40% of the funds assets. The manager sees this and goes short (in another fund) the exact crap they will be dumping to meet your quarter end redemptions.

Our markets have become shams. They are no longer efficient, they are casinos in a casino eCONomy.

What money man said, except, hopefully sooner and not quite so bad.

All of this will only end badly if there is a big push for nuclear disarmament. Disarmament would make it safe for WW III, something that, even without nukes, would make WW II look small. So, I think that if there is a big push for disarmament, especially by U.S., then our leaders have set their sights on war.

China is not and will never be a Great Power. In the end - as they always do - they will reflexively turn back upon themselves and close their door to the world.

So, there may be little help from the B/D adjustment tomorrow.
Comrade-Dope jg (jg)

Maybe Hanky will get that "modified" - a home security thingy

We are already shooting up several countries and nobody is happy about it.

"Shit creek is more like it"

That's going in your file, Mister.

Darth Toll - at $25 the ME and Russia are BK.

Just as the bubble was forming some said $200/bbl. Now on the downside, I would expect to hear things like $25/bbl. IMHO $40 is the new floor

Headed out.

Happy glooming people.

We and the Chinese are in a fierce competition to see who is stupider. At first glance, we seem unbeatable with our wall street titans payed billions in bonuses to loan money to people who cannot possibly repay it through financial instruments that the titans admit was too complex for them to understand... With leverage of 100 to one in some cases, based on the belief that real estate never goes down (how many land deals have gone sour, starting with Louisiana, Florida, Arizona...).

The Chinese however, are stupider than they first appear. Obviously, continuing to buy bonds from a government that can print as many dollars as it wants, and has PUBLICALLY stated so much, brings the Chinese about even. The Chinese may be ahead when one considers that there economic model is to sell their labor for less than they could...hey, don't pay me a dollar an hour, I'll do it for a quarter. We all want to make less money!!! (as Patton would say, its not your job to die for your country - its your job to make the other dumb son of a bitch die for his).
Setser about ?two? weeks ago had a great link, where it was shown that between currency manipulation, and the lack of return on the bonds they buy, their (Chinese) products are 15% than their nominal price.
Can't the world have smarter leaders???

Ben Frank'll Tank Bernanke - reasoned and reasonable guess...Tomorrow I'll predict it after its released, k?

Can someone give a coles version of current canadian politics?

But can those things be made/done by any of the United States' allies or protectorates? Korea? Japan? Mexico?

Canada could do it but they'd charge us in Loonies and demand that we recognize them as an independent nation.

It's just not worth it.

My point is that WE need to scrap the debt based economy. It may take a war to get the debt burden removed but something has to give. I have now assumed crash positions and put my tin foil hat back on. You may now proceed to throw insults and produce.

My point exactly. We are surrounded by idiots...prepare to defend yourself.

We are toast, unless we start doing things by ourselves and for ourselves"

Speak for yourself. Idaho is a net exporter of food and there's enough billiard equipment & tables to last for the rest of my life.

Bring it!

"They press Detroit about 34B but sign off on trillions for Wall Street."

They were spooked. It was poor public policy, which was recognized by many on this board as it happened. But have an "expert" tell a politician a few weeks before an election that if he/she does not act, a financial asteroid will strike the heartland before Nov. 4th, and poor policy is guaranteed.

Now, with time to reflect and consult, and seeing that the experts are flailing around from one failing idea to the next, it is not so easy to convince the Members of "do it now or else..."

China has to accept that there are limits to its power too unless it wants to get into a fight it is unlikely to win for the foreseeable future.

~~~~

As do we ...

The Chinese have gained a huge advantage over us here in the US. While they became masters in manufacturing, we abandoned manufacturing (Thanks to Walmart and Walmart shoppers) and became 70% focused on service oriented industries. Needless to say that this is not sustainable but by this time we are already screwed beyond royally.

NAVSPECWARCOM

China is only warlike on its own borders.

China had better build up her military if she wants any realistic chance of seeing those debts repaid.
Nemo | Homepage | 12.04.08 - 5:25 pm |

Unless things have changed in the last 15 years, China's like Israel...every young person goes into the military for a couple of years. I talked with a young female tour guide in Guangzhou in the '90's and she told me that it was to teach them how hard the military was and to always have respect for the military. When she got out, then she got to go to university, but not until her military service was completed.

I asked her if it was hard, she answered "very hard". No desk jobs for women, I forget what you call foot soldiers (blonde moment) but that's what her job was.

As an American, I had no concept of how tough these people have to be, the conditions they lived in. I have never seen anything like it, before or since. When we crossed the border from Hong Kong, it was like stepping back in time 200 years, literally at the border (the year before reunification).

CR, thanks for the link to the Atlantic story, very interesting. Here's another one on Gao Xiqing from Duke Law.
Duke Law in China: Gao Xiquing '86

[The worst show on cnbc is gonzo!
crispy&cole ]

Cramer is much worse.

Face of Wall Street may change with shareholders vote on Bank of America-Merrill merger Friday

>
I wonder how many efficiencies will be realized.

Re: unirealist @ 5:29
Obama is Hitler~ (~ is the snark tag)

Re: Jas @ 6:08
ML saying oil could go below $25? Aren't these the same jokers projecting oil to go to $500?

Re: dreadlord76
If there is going to be a war won't it be internal American class warfare? I'm thinking of something like a number of people descending on Capital and then the Capitol police turning their guns on the politicians. Of course if something else happened one would have to conclude that the Capitol police are in on the fraud/bribes/corruption...

"We" have no say in what the path the elites in this country take us down, short of a revolution. They've already signaled to us their intentions on our debt. Check that: they've signaled their intention of running up as much debt as possible.

"Hooker shortage?
Rob Dawg"

No, I just have to give them a ride to their real esate office.

China is like a big private equity fund. They take the long view and folks are 'really' locked in.

Plus their central bank doesn't want to take a loss ... in that way they are more capitalist than us!

Austin Tex

China is not Japan ... it is a command economy ... they do have the same population decline problem ahead. Really bad for a fractional banking monetary system ...

Driving through the Yangtse delta with a friend in the early nineties, a friend and I were discussing what would happen if China attempted to become "another Tiger", a la Taiwan, S. Korea, etc. We agreed that in order to industrialize to that extent, the ROW f'tys could pack it up and give manicures to each other. And moreover it would entail a huge expansion in the volume of world trade and international financial flows.

But that simply couldn't happen, we agreed, due to the imbalances that would inevitably result.

Well, it didn't go all the way, barely half way, and we see what we've got as a result.

Lack of domestic stimulous: I cannot believe the shortsightedness of China's economic planners.

Hell for leather debt creation: I cannot believe the shortsightedness of the FED and J. Q. Public.

But here we are, in a mutual death dance. I have no idea how we'll return to our seats for a nice chat, but we have to.

"If we had to work as hard as Chinese peasants, many of us would collapse after the first day."

But the point, sir, is that we don't have to. In the early 1990's I had cause to go to China, and elected to take the train from Hong Kong to Guangzhou. The rail line was maybe 3/4 tracks then, but was being widened by magnitude. Along the way, a bridge was being built, and several Chinese peasants were working their buffalo on one side of the creek, moving dirt and rock. On the other side of the stream, there were several pieces of equipment sitting as well.

Caterpillar.

True story.

Got to prepare my sermon for the flock. Later.

Unit472

Butcher I knew had memorabilia. Retired, got more than $500,000 for it. Some guy in Texas.

I know it's a little late for thread music, but...

concerning the Chinese. . . 

Re: New Car Search
Got a few more responses from new car salesman after sending out a low ball offer on what I'd be willing to pay.

All of them laughed and said it was not a serious price. One of them said something like "if we sell you at that price we will go out of business". I guess he doesn't think they will go out of business as it is. My friend who deals cars all the time told me I shouldn't have put a price in the feeler e-mail I put out. I'm glad I tweaked some of them.

Per Auto-trader 4 cars have moved within my search area the past week. If they keep that rate up they'll all be gone in 2 months... oh no!

"A stronger RMB helps."

It is so convenient to have one currency for domestic policy, and one for international trade.

"Maybe that's why I pray to St. Jude every morning."

This early morning I drove my wife to AUS airport. In a little crossroad town on the way, morning Mass was in session; 20 or so cars in the lot.

She mentioned in passing how the history of settlement by German Catholics --those who practice faith by Works-- has had lasting impact in making this part of Texas distinctive.

Pavel,
As long as there is power, influence, or prestige to be gained there will be people who are after it. So to will countries seek the same. Many are convinced that there is no such thing as a "win-win" situation for the world. Thus countries must vie to be dominant over other countries.

I'm sure the world population would just like to live their lives and be left alone... but even in that situation those in government try to dominate over the populace.

"Basically the only thing left is food." vs "Mickey is moving to Shanghai"

Mickey lives in a vault in California, and thanks to the changes in the copyright and trademark laws, will do so forever.

That someone in Shanghai would pay to have Mickey's image there is my point.

As far as helium depletion goes, by the way, I did not know that, but I believe the US is still (virtually) the only place on earth with commercial quantities of helium, isn't it?

In any case, I was writing metaphorically. You are right about Idol, of course. Bad metaphor.

Pavel Chichikov | 12.04.08 - 7:42 pm |
Pavel Chichikov | 12.04.08 - 7:50 pm |

I enjoy your humorous posts too! : )

"...These can damage the company, the country and the PARTY."

So GPS/cell jammers can be real PARTY POOPERS!

Get it? Party poopers! LOL

Funny (strange) that for all our progress the same question persists: Why do the nations rage so furiously together and the people imagine a vain thing?

AnonyMiss - end 93, and through 94 we were still arguing the hard landing / soft landing story in China. Credit was duly injected into the system in massive doses of policy lending, sweetheart deals, and a very cosy triangular debt relationship emerged with colossal amounts of, erm, leakage. The coastal CRE and RRE bust of 98/99. The overhang was enormous.

Clearly a unique situation which couldn't or wouldn't be repeated in more "mature" economies. Too many smarties, Group of 30 etc.

Oh wait...

C

Pavel Chichikov(Unrated) writes:
So the income of a rural family is typically under USD 1,000?
Pavel Chichikov | 12.04.08 - 5:49 pm | #

LOL - ya something like that. A story for you Pavel, you're literate and would appreciate a 'story' more than just raw numbers...

I work for a company that built a plant in China a while back - not long ago - not to export to the US directly but to support the many multinational OEMs that export to the US - they supply parts to those OEMs worldwide.

We were discussing a part... and whether we should 'core' a hole in the part [put the hole in the mold to form the hole in each part as it is being molded] or should we drill the hole in each part separately AFTER we mold it sans the hole. Here in the US we would try to mold the hole in to save labor drilling a hole... not always the best choice in China.

At this meeting I asked a dumb question "So how much does it cost to drill a hole in China?" [I knew that putting the 'core' feature in the mold would add something like $5000 to the cost of the mold]...

The reply I got from our China expert was "About $60."

I protested - "No F'ing way! At their labor rates it has to cost way less than sixty bucks!"

Our expert said... "That's not per part... it will cost us about $60 a month to hire a guy to drill holes. Divide that sixty dollars by as many holes as he can drill working six days a week ten or twelve hours per day. THAT'S your cost per hole."

Came out to be something like a quarter penny per hole.

That worker's salary is about $720/year... and people are leaving rural China in droves to get those jobs. My guess is the people in rural China make way less than $1000 USD... probably less than $700 per year all things considered... else why would they leave?

Perhaps a different line? And did the train stop at Shenzen so the PLA soldiers could come on and look everyone over?
Anonymous | 12.04.08 - 8:08 pm |

No, we came straight through the New Territories on a group visa, we were checked on in HK through a group visa. Gosh, now you have me thinking...nope, no soldiers, so we came straight through. I checked a map just now, I've never been to Shenzhen as far as I can tell!

I do recall that when we got into Guangzhou, our tour bus wasn't waiting for is as it should have been. I don't think I've ever been so scared in my life. Maybe two dozen of us, surrounded by hundreds of lame, handicapped beggars, children, and women. Once again, I have never seen anything like it.

As Pavel mentioned upthread, I probably couldn't last an hour as a Chinese peasant.

And when I said the food was bad, I only meant that the quality of the food maybe 10% of the quality of the food we ate in HK although the buildings were more beautiful.

BTW the total amount of net worth of the big 3 is around 16B and they are asking for 34Billion?????

Unit472 writes:
"F-22s,nuclear submarines light years ahead of what the Chinese can build"

Really? More american football mentality dope patriotism is what I'm reading and the bravado of the USA is bigger and stronger. Time to grow up and recognize China as the dangerous red dragon that it is:
Dailymail.co.uk November 2007:The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced
At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.
That is the theory. Or, rather, was the theory
American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.
By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier....The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.
And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it

CNN 1999: China has the largest military in the world of 2.8 million...China., with some 400 nuclear warheads, still has the world's third-largest nuclear arsenal and missiles that can reach the United States.

Bush's foreign policies has forged new alliances: China, Russia, India and Brazil ( three-quarters of the world's population), Pakistan, Iran, Venezula, South Africa have particularly forged relations.
November 2008:Chinese trade agreement with Taiwan...China's agreement with Taiwan will triple the number of direct flights across the Taiwan straight.... and Cheyne Chiu drafts ‘peace agreement’ between Taiwan, China

People's Dailyonline:China, South Africa sign labor agreement
South Africa and China Monday signed an extension to the memorandum of understanding (MoU) in the labor field agreed to in 2002.
China had managed to create 10 million jobs a year over the past four years and had much experience to offer South Africa in this regard, he said. Mdladlana agreed, saying South Africa was creating only about 500,000 jobs a year...

venezuelasanalysis.com: 1/31/05:President Hugo Chavez and Chinese Vice President Zeng Qinghong signed 19 agreements ...The Chinese Vice President explained that fortunately for the good of the world, China would continue growing socially, morally, politically and economically. "China continues to be the country with the most solid economic growth in the world," affirmed Qinghong.

Qatar News Agency: China and Japan sign cooperation agreements in Energy Conservation
Tokyo , November 29 (QNA) -China and Japan signed a number of new contracts using Japan's technologies to cut China''s energy consumption and cooperation in energy conservation and sustainable development . In the third edition of a China-Japan energy conservation forum held here Friday, a total of 19 contracts are signed between government institutions and companies from both countries...Trade and Industry of Japan, said cooperation in the environmental protection sector has become the main highlight of economic ties between China and Japan. (Qna)

bilaterals.org 11/20/08: China and Peru sign free trade agreement, extending Asian influence in Latin America
China has made similar forays into other Latin American countries, such as Chile, where it signed a free trade agreement in 2005. Last year, China supplanted the United States as Chile’s top trading partner.
In addition to Peru and Chile, China has already signed free trade agreements with Costa Rica and Cuba. In fact, Cuba’s state news agency reported that President Hu has signed almost a dozen agreements with Cuba,
In Brazil, China is currently in negotiations are negotiating to build a $3 billion steel mill with help from the Bank of China, which is set to open a branch with a $100 million in lending capital there next year. China has also sunk billions into oil exploration in Ecuador, Colombia and Venezuela.

“The reality is that to some degree the fate of Latin America has been decoupled from the US,” Daniel Erickson, of the Inter-American Dialogue thinktank, told the AP. “Or at least it’s not as tightly entwined as it used to be.”

The USA offshored manufacturing and industry to China. USA's wealth was finished product exports at one time. Now we sell to the world; raw commodities and "financial SIV's and services." We fabricated a faith based currency while China PRODUCES finished manufactured products and has the rest of the world in trade agreements. SAIC is GM's chinese foreign car maker. Soon SAIC will buy GM.

Never underestimate China's long-range plan; to be the next empire as the USA gasps its' last collective breath of stupidity of selling out american workers and manufacturing jobs and industry. China will buy our debt until they've accomplished their goal; The new world leaders.
Don't forget about China's FOREX; $1.9 trillion. Unlike the USA, China is a country that planned ahead and saved for the rainy day. As Paulson and Bush go on bended knee BEGGING China to buy more treasuries to bailout the USA and 'too big to fail' investment and insurance. China smiles as it buys our treasuries to fund our MIC and stupid wars because they understand that we are bankrupting our future. And the future came early...

Stiffing China will be like stiffing the Mafia. The chump who greedily takes the shark loans always ends up dead in the trunk.

girlbear writes:
BTW the total amount of net worth of the big 3 is around 16B and they are asking for 34Billion?????
girlbear | 12.04.08 - 8:25 pm |

$34B plus $25B from previously approved funds for retooling and increasing MPG...

AND they've put in for TARP money for their financing arms.

Unit472 writes:
"rps, you get your naval info from the Daily Mail? I get my Spice Girls and Brittany stuff from that source."

The Cleveland Leader:
Chinese Sub Pops Up Undetected in U.S. Navy Exercise
...As a citizen of the United States, it may leave you wondering if we are really as safe as we think we are.

UPI.com
Chinese sub has U.S. military concerned
LONDON, Nov. 10 (UPI) -- U.S. Navy officials are concerned over the unexpected appearance of a Chinese submarine during a major military exercise in the Pacific Ocean.

CBS NEWS: Chinese Sub Came Close To U.S. Ships
Navy Commander Says Close Encounter Could Have Triggered 'Unforeseen' Incident

And how is the USA going to Finance a war with China? Presently, China and Japan finance our current stupid wars and military. Americans have an aversion to pay as you go and demand tax cuts. China obliges us...and smiles as they buy OUR DEBT-treasuries. They have a plan.

China will win without a physical war. It'll be financial armageddon for the USA. Bush and Paulson have already sold US workers future labor. Did ya think the bailout money via China's willingness in buying treasuries was free with zero interest?

Ancient Chinese Secret(Unrated) writes:
dryfly...quality control on those holes is going to be weak; the hole-driller can't be that consistent, even with some kind of fixture. Which is why stuff from China is often, in fact, cheap Chinese crap.
Ancient Chinese Secret | 12.04.08 - 8:17 pm | #

The cored-molded holes aren't that 'accurate' either - draft angles & 'shrink'. As bad as the Chinese drilled holes would be they wouldn't be any worse than a molded hole... the difference is that in the developing economies a molded hole is cheaper... in the developing economies the drilled hole is cheaper... it all has to do with the relative costs of labor vs. capital in each place.

PCA & Dryfly,

I found the auto factory worker wages in the article I posted above under part 3. Here's the relevent paragraph.

"Thomas Yao, the factory's head of public relations, took me on a guided tour. The factory, he explained, had opened five years ago, built from scratch in strict accordance with Ford's global manufacturing standards, and produces up to 250,000 cars a year. The average non-technical production line worker earns 18,000 yuan (about £1,300) a year, working an eight-hour day, with a 15-minute break every two hours and an hour for lunch. (Wages, and the cost of living, in Chongqing are between a quarter and a third less than in the major manufacturing centres of the south and east, where the average urban salary is 25,000 yuan, about £1,800, a year.) The company provides extensive healthcare, insurance and pension packages. Workers are encouraged to make suggestions about how to improve the production process - there are 'break-out' areas where groups sit together and review their performance - and receive awards and bonuses if their suggestions are adopted."

Two things jump out but you'd need to read the full series for the whole context.

When I visited Guandong (sp?) province 14 years ago, they were just beginning to mechanize and built up, now wages are up to around $2640 per YEAR, so they built and moved west for the lower salaries $1905 per YEAR. They moved all their factories and built a city of over 5M people and growing in less than 15 years just to save $735 per year/employee.

Amazing.

I've never been there - have been offered to be sent there, declined - but those I work with who have been to the industrial centers [we aren't talking Great Wall tourist traps] are blown away by how rough it is.

dryfly | 12.04.08 - 9:23 pm |

You really should go. 14 years ago, it was a lot easier to see the real, but it is also a staggeringly beautiful country.