Krugman and Princess Madeleine
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Sat, 12/13/2008 - 3:13pm (283 comments)
Shopping at Amazon?
Wait! If you click on the Amazon banner link at the top of the page first, HCN will get a percentage of anything you purchase for 24 hours!
Open predictions
Our local book authors
User login
Who's online
There are currently 12 members and 150 guests online.
Recent Recommendations
He needs a pony
My first first?
Meanwhile, at the Roubini banquet, a wall of plaster vulvas.
Another damned hack economist picking up some tax free money from Sveedish socialists...
I'd love to watch one of these clowns on a trading desk. He'd be broke within a week.
Economists are Wall Street's pitch men. They will argue either side for a stipend. Sometimes just for a free meal.
Can someone who speaks Swedish inform us who the buxom blond woman is on Krugman's arm?
I do not think that Nobel prize money is tax free
I know for certain that all our lives are more difficult because of Prof Krugman.
I am impressed. Later, in more intimate sttings, it was Ride of the Valkeries.
So is CR Companion filtering out people who aren't using it or am I just paranoid? Otherwise there is a lot of noise on the threads and I'm apparently not adding much to the discussion. Seems like everyone is shocked, laughing, and kind've pondering the implications of this.
Wonder if anyone else is going to fess up to or get caught running a Madoff-scheme.
Is that his daughter?
Man, I'm stupid. That's Princess Madeleine, Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland. Thus the title of the post.
Man, I'm stupid. That's Princess Madeleine, Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland. Thus the title of the post
Yep, a nice pair of Duchies.
Yep, a nice pair of Duchies.
Yep, huge tracts of land.
YLSP writes:
So is CR Companion filtering out people who aren't using it or am I just paranoid?
That's not an either/or question. But no to the first and seek help for the second. My conspiracy is going in alphabetical order and we're only up to the "G"s.
At 4:16 to 4:28 there's another shot of krugman. He's sitting next to her, not in front of her
Well, CR has established his hetrosexual credentials with me.
Do you think they will save the GM announcement to Sunday night to cover the fall of Madoff? They can sell into a rising market.
CR hearts Krugman.
Ahhh okay. I'm just not adding any response-provoked thoughts on the current issues of the thread I suppose. I don't use CR Companion because it's more fun that way.
So people are saying this Madoff thing could be bigger than any type of debt settlement from bankrupcies are large firm? Color me skeptical. So a bunch of rich people lost money; and since rich people are the ones who own media companies they can flood their papers with stories about how they need a bailout. Did anyone from major papers invest with him?
What happened to Pimco's foreign bond fund? (PFBDX)
When the bubble popped in the summer of 2007, Krugman sat at his desk and thought, "How can I say the right thing? From now on, I need to describe the financial crisis accurately without angering the rich by encouraging a panic."
And he did it. If you look at his NYT columns and blog posts over the last 18 months, you'll see that he became Goldilocks Kroogman --- not too honest, not too dishonest.
And that's why he won the (fake) Nobel Prize for economics.
I bet a Princess would be high maintenance.
Dairy prices are looking good.
Branding needs some work. Royal Profits, perhaps?
C
As if the anachronistic moronics of being a monarchy was something to parade in front of the world.
My ears are blushing of shame.
YLSP | 12.13.08 - 6:53 pm
I think Citadel plus Madman is interesting because it speaks to those who thought they could trust the system. It further gnaws at the foundation. Isn't trust rather important in something as complicated as finance?
Smoot. Are you a Broward alias?
Hedge fund is a misnomer. It refers to usually partnerships of investors of high net worth who are exempted from registration with the SEC, a tedious process. In theory, those wealthy entities can protect themselves. So they are relatively unregulated (owners of a certain % of a company's shares still must file special forms). Most mutual funds are long only.
It's true that many people believe they should be registered because they control so much wealth, and concentrated wealth is dangerous (and not necessarily "efficient".) It is not really clear what registration would accomplish. The SEC does so little anyway. Many are registered by choice, as it lends an aura of credibility.
Others argue that investors should be protected (essentially that statutory definitions of high net worth have not kept pace with Ponzi numbers and there are way too many dopes, as in 1929).
Of course, those unfortunate working stiffs with 401(K)s should be able to participate in short funds like the big boys, to be fair. An unregulated stock market as efficient allocator of capital is a pipe dream.
Even highly educated lawyers and doctors don't have the resources to sift through the next ingenious Ponzi scheme, as we see. When the speculation craze unraveled in 1929, we finally got around to decent reforms, which have decayed.
ova:
Nope. I'm just me.
Hawley, the prize wasn't for anything he wrote in the Times.
Hawley Smoot
Thank god.
The rich and famous continue to sell their property for cash:
BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Jackson to sell personal effects
Good point, Brock. I didn't mean to conflate the two.
this guy has rarely something worthwhile to say.
the idiotic "we can print $10 trillion more" without taking into account the sizes of unfunded liabilities...
he believes the nobel allows him to write without thinking
Credit crisis?
Credit crunch? What credit crunch?
| Reuters
I couldn't understand a word. What am I missing here?
Nothing.
Bizzarely, I actually sort of know one of the other laureates... I worked in Marty Chalfie's genetics lab at Columbia in the summer of 1985. He's at 1:05 in the video, Nobel prize for medicine.
Mortgage fraud, foreclosures, vacant homes and now the economy have captured a lot more of my interest in the last few years, though.
Back to your regularly scheduled economics discussion.
Ecuador defaults:
UPDATE 5-Ecuador defaults, says to fight monster creditors
| Reuters
It would be prudent to recall the experience of Argentina.
Argentine debt restructuring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now let's imagine for a moment that Roubini and Krugman each had a giant zit or boil (bubble) on thier face that was showing signs of deflating. What would they choose as the best thing to do:
A) opt for plastic surgery (or botox) to puff up the zit/boil (bubble) to maintain that sexy look; or,
B) have the zit/boil (bubble) lanced (defalted) and sterilized so that their formerly pretty faces could return to normal;
while considering each of them is proposing a $1 Trillion stimulus to cure our deflating bubble based economy?
I followed the link - who is Marenzi? I don't get what he's saying. Looks like backfilling nonsense.
C
Ah Stockholm City Hall. I'm amazed they can fit that many people in that room. If you ever visit in person--the City Hall is one of the most impressive sights in Stockholm, particularly the interior.
My idea for the night:
Insolvent banks liquidate, putting their toxic assets on Ebay. A market price could be found and the public can be involved.
The Massachusetts Attorney General had argued that "a lenders failure to reasonably assess a borrowers ability to repay his loan and the use of loan features that predictably lead to foreclosure is unfair and deceptive and in violation of Massachusetts law." More precisely, a consumer loan that is not intended to be repaid, but intended to be refinanced (a process that can only work if property values rise indefinitely) is inherently predatory. By upholding the preliminary injunction, the SJC endorsed this view and imposed a serious good faith workout effort on Fremont.
I do not think that Nobel prize money is tax free.
~~~~
Prizes that are awards of merit , without the entrance per se of the winner are fed tax free.
When you enter a contest it is not tax free ...
while considering each of them is proposing a $1 Trillion stimulus to cure our deflating bubble based economy?
~~~~
If your car is running out of oil and begins to smoke you ...
1). continue driving until the engine freezes...
2). stop driving altogether ...
3). add more oil ...
Is this Krugman's answer to Roubini's sexy parties?
Price vs. Quantity
It's a good time to be a member of the CR blog roll.
I'm pretty sure she's taller
Smoot. Are you a Broward alias?
hahahahahaha.
Alas, Poor Smooty.
Reduced to a lowly Broward alias.
I don't use any other alias on a regular basis. I occasionally post under an alias that makes me laugh (like Casey Serin) and I spoofed CSC once because it seemed so appropriate to out-Cheech the Cheech and he played straight man well.
That was a good laugh, though.
Oy vay...another bear that does not get it, dispensing free advice in Barron's this week (bolding is mine), Stephanie Pomboy of Macromavens:
How would you assess the job Fed Chairman Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson have done in responding to the financial crisis?
"My preferred solution would have been to do nothing. I think it's the meddling of policy makers that got us into this situation in the first place, along with the asymmetric practice of capitalism where, as long as everyone is succeeding, it is wonderful thing -- but the moment someone fails, we need to revert to socialism. That is really how we got to this place. And [former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan] Greenspan's desire to constantly lubricate any pain by pumping money into the system really created this bubble. But since doing nothing was not a compelling option to [Bernanke and Paulson], I would have favored more aggressive action to arrest home-price deflation, which would have been tackling the disease. Instead, they've chosen to treat the symptoms. Having said all of that, Bernanke and Paulson are determined to mitigate the pain."
Me again. I hope the Obama team realizes that housing prices have to come down to 3x income, and not be "arrested".
That said, I more often than not can't understand what is so hard about the material. The bankers and other financiers, the market makers, hedge funds and private equity made men, in the rich world have managed to get so much power in governments that they were permitted to gamble not just many times their own capital, but indeed many times the capital of their own countries in the casino's they call stock exchanges.
The profits for a while were much too good to be true and certainly to let pass you by, but now the losses are here and they are truly mind-boggling.
And instead of having to swallow the losses, they get permission to use nations' (re: taxpayers') entire capital base to cover up the losses, while loudly proclaiming that they are indispensable to the economic welfare of these nations. And once again, the politicians in their pockets proclaim this with them.
When you see how this works, who needs an astrologer? It's not as if there are too many different possible outcomes. The gambling debts will have to be paid, and your money will be used for it, as well as your children and grandchildren's. Somewhere during the process, the realization will dawn that energy sources, which were already getting scarce, have been cut off at the knees by the demise of credit. That means no more funds for exploration, or large scale solar, wind, or anything else.
Every single aspect of our economy depends on available credit. All of it. Nobody builds a house without it. No store or factory can buy inventory without it. Well, credit is gone. And that means the entire system is gone, over, and it will never come back on the scale we see at present. We can wonder how Nero could sing while Rome burnt, but while we wonder, we still do what he did.
--Illgri
4) repair the engine
Citizen,
If that happens; it would be amazing.
Sadly... too many people have a lot invested into their home price... I mean emotionally invested. I haven't heard too many politicos saying let the prices come down. Most of them think house price depreciation is "bad" and needs to be stopped.
@mmckinl - Nope, Nobel money is taxable, see The Tax Foundation - Is the Nobel Prize Award Subject to Income Taxation?
" Pulitzer, Nobel, and similar prizes. If you were awarded a prize in recognition of accomplishments in religious, charitable, scientific, artistic, educational, literary, or civic fields, you generally must include the value of the prize in your income. (...)
Basically, unless Krugman donates the money to an eligible charity, he must pay tax on it. And that's correct given that such an award is indeed Haig-Simons income."
Shouldn't GWB get a Nobel prize too?
He's the one who's been implementing his "spend without paying" miracle economic cure for years now.
Seems like Bush was way ahead of the curve here with these great economic ideas.
GWB for a Nobel?
They don't have one for Raping and Scraping yet---
Charles Schwab Interview
That's the terrific part of the whole thing, but I really hate seeing our clients get knocked back by 30%, 40%, 50%, in the equity portion of their portfolios. It's really not a happy long-term situation. But it will change. It will get better. I guarantee it!...It will get better definitely after Obama has his team together and is able to submit to the public what he's going to do. He's got some wise people around him who will probably put together a pretty comprehensive and thoughtful strategy, and I think that will add exactly what we need to improve confidence.
What!?!? The smart people are on the case, so they will solve it!
He has said he would reduce taxes for 95% of the population. I would have him keep that pledge but announce that for the other 5% there will be no change in their tax rate for at least three years. That would probably send the stock market really turning around. A tsunami of uncertainty has been created by the election and by the agenda he suggested in the campaign. Lots of people are worried about taxes and have been selling.
Interesting interview. Read between the lines. Inflation is coming... if not, the economy is toast. So says everyone. Ponies, ponies, no pain.
Yeah right!
think Citadel plus Madman is interesting because it speaks to those who thought they could trust the system
I think the coincidence of timing and other things is interesting.
No doubt that part of Madoff's success is rooted in his former chairmanship of NASDAQ. So we know who lost money there.
Here's Citadel -
Citadel Investment Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Citadels clients include high-profile sovereign wealth funds, charity foundations, wealthy families and various financial institutions."
If certain clients were still highly leveraged and a bunch of their wealth disappeared under Madoff, would it reflect back into corresponding selloffs of Citadel?
"the balance sheet of todays Citadel hedge fund looks quite similar to LTCM"
I wonder if they're already toast but nobody has called the fire department yet.
"Life is difficult for Professor Krugman"
Poor baby now he knows what us peons go threw every frigging day.
I wonder if they're already toast but nobody has called the fire department yet.
Broward Horne | Homepage | 12.13.08 - 7:46 pm | #
Fire department arrived after the fire burnt itself out. They recognized the ruins of their once great city and wondered how it could burn down without them noticing.
MrM
My bad ...
I see where the U.S. is the only country in the world that taxes the Nobel Prize ...
the U.S. is the only country in the world that taxes the Nobel Prize
Wow, I did not know that. US-based Nobel prize winners should have been using UBS
The rich and famous continue to sell their property for cash:
....
Kind of like the Hiltons did a couple years a go.
Contrarian view--raise the minimum wage substantially and have the other gang of 7 do the same. Other countries will fall in line and house prices will become affordable--saving the alphabet soup of leverage. This speeds up the needed inflation without putting the country in debt. This solution is less terrible than the present course.
and the Clintons.
Let's all just nobel invented things that blow up. So krugman has a nice way of describing what is blowing up.fits nicely.
^remember- sorry
Gawd...that bumbling idiot!!! He knows not what to do with those beautiful tits, and all the rest!! He's a man of books and asses....asses with his nose permanently inserted in them, but not this!! This he can not handle. This woman needs more than just him. She needs many men...men with girth where it counts...maybe even a horse, but not Paul Krugman.
WRT to previous thread, is the name of the great Ponzi heister pronounced like "Mad-Off", or "Made-Off".
(As in, he "Made-Off" with their money"???) /snark
From Wikipedia:
"In recognition of her age of majority in 2001, a scholarship fund was created in her name....In 2001, Princess Madeleine first distributed such awards as 'Pony Rider of the Year with trainer in Gävleborg'..."
Snicker.
Rise up you idiots and torch these palaces and all their pomp and circumstance. Where is your pride? What are you?
"The rich and famous continue to sell their property for cash:..
Kind of like the Hiltons did a couple years a go."
Just the natural business cycle. From unproductive assets to productive.
Rise up you idiots and torch these palaces and all their pomp and circumstance. Where is your pride? What are you?
Morocco Bama | Homepage | 12.13.08 - 8:00 pm | #
How does burning their palaces make me better off? My pride is in what I do. I'm hungry and it's about time for dinner, thanks for asking.
Where is your pride? What are you?
No single person will act and even if they had, you wouldn't notice the impact.
Effective action has to operate a certain scale and leverage. There are windows of excesssive leverage but even then their effect is relatively localized.
Conspiracies exist because they grow (or shrink) to the right size to operate effectively.
How does burning their palaces make me better off?
Effective action has to operate a certain scale and leverage. There are windows of excesssive leverage but even then their effect is relatively localized.
~~~ The Chicago Window Plant sit in attracted a lot of attention. Obama even backed them ...
Paul Krugman really hit the jackpot. I hope he gets to tap Princess Madeleine's ass tonight. I have been a lifelong stalker of Princess Madeleine. Oh, the night is long in the blue hall. Unfortunately she's not the crown princess, but probably the most attractive monarch in the world (ok Princess Rania of Jordan, but she's not royal blood)
~~~ The Chicago Window Plant sit in attracted a lot of attention. Obama even backed them ...
The degree of leverage changes over time, by environment and through changes in organizaions, goals and technology.
It's still very misty to me, I can't quite figure out a framework of variables to fit it all into.
I believe there is a connection between Citadel and Madoff, a connection which isn't visible to the general public.
I could be wrong.
This was linked earlier. Questions the validity of the claim of a credit crisis globally and in the US.
Credit crunch? What credit crunch?
| Reuters
[3). add more oil ...
mmckinl ]
4) Get a new motor.
Broward Horne:
They are both broker-dealers.
I wonder if they clear their own trades of if no, who clears for them?
4) Get a new motor.
bearly
~~~~
Indeed our economic model is broken, but, we can't throw away all the pieces ...
We now run 70% or thereabouts in consumption. That leaves 30% for everything else ... Plus much of our consumption is NOT measured in that past investment is being used up or sold and not replaced ,,, think infrastructure, intellectual property and human capital ...
We need to keep the game going until a new economy can be engaged ... chaos is not an answer, just a bigger hole to climb out of.
"Gästrikland"
Is that where the bellyache originated?
Broward, I'm don't expect anyone to do anything....I'm just saying. It's the thought that counts. It's pretty unnerving when you can't even think about it. This is where technology has gotten us. Eunuchs sitting at a computer terminal....one could even say the computer terminal has made them Eunuchs. They didn't call it Unix for nothing, you know. It has created highly neutralized and sterilized Aspergerians.
Gee, what would burning their palaces do? Might as well just go eat dinner and come back and check the comments. Maybe then they will stop stealing from me. They are benevolent, afterall, aren't they?
Take the computers away!!!! It's our only chance. Cyberspace does not a revolution make.
We need to keep the game going until a new economy can be engaged ... chaos is not an answer, just a bigger hole to climb out of.
\t mmckinl | \t \t \t \t12.13.08 - 8:23 pm |
5) Buy a new car, all the while complaining about the UAW and illegal aliens.
This seems appropo.
heartbeat of america on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
I wonder if the Noel foundation had any money with Mad-Off. Perhaps they got out their money on time to pay kruggy.
Citizem Clyde: I also did a double read on that quote you highlighted from Stephanie Pomboy. She has nailed this whole thing from the git go, and I can't believe she would say that.
On the other hand, I'd do her.
On the other hand, I'd do her.
That has added meaning coming from a guy named Dr. Munch.
They are both broker-dealers.
I wonder if they clear their own trades of if no, who clears for them?
Yes, I'm thinking of some kind of kiting scheme between the two of them but I'm also troubled by the sequence & location of several events -
Obama - $600 million in donations, many of which are untraceable. A lot of money.
Hot Rod - why did the "senate seat for sale" show up now?
Madoff - why act now? We now know that that fraud been common knowledge for a decade, although mis-interpreted.
Citadel collapse and Obama, Hot Rod also located in Chicago and all tied to money. The timing and location are fairly narrow in a long-term sense.
No single person can alter events much. But there's definitely a lot of leverage in the curernt environment in terms of multiplicative effect of capital, communications and technology. I didn't like how the whole investment bank collpse went down, it had a bad smell.
I used to think Belief Systems were relatively fragile but over the past ten years I learned the opposite. However, the hardier it is, the bigger the snap when it drifts too far from reality and cracks.
I don't think single person or groups of people can manufacture belief systems but they can definitely effect their direction, guide the nature channels that they operate within to small degrees.
Obama's first pardon?
Cyberspace does not a revolution make.
Morocco Bama | Homepage | 12.13.08 - 8:25 pm | #
Tell you what. You show me a scheme where burning down the palaces makes sense and makes the world a better place for one hundred people, and I will buy a plane ticket and a couple liters of gasoline, no matter what the personal cost to me. But unfocussed rage doesn't seem productive. I think it will just impoverish the kids who have those palaces as a legacy of their history and not help anyone. If it matters, I am a Boomer who is destroying the lives of Gen Xers,...does that count?
Krugman will be telling his buddies, "When I was nose to nose, my toes were in it, and when I was toes to toes, my nose was in it" My God, that is one beautiful woman!
I don't usually turn on the sound during those infrequent times I watch a video on the computer. I didn't this time either. Watching a silent video usually makes people look ridiculous. Some exceptions to the rule of visual awkwardness: Migrating birds, whales and sharks, other beautiful animals, landscapes of importance, works of art.
Most human beings do not visually impress. Ours is not a graceful species. Try studying someone's face as seen upside down to get some idea of how we must look to other creatures.
If this video had shown Mako sharks swimming down the staircase, underwater, that would have been impressive, not awkward.
Except, of course, for the expressive face.
They didn't call it Unix for nothing, you know. It has created highly neutralized and sterilized Aspergerians.
Did you know that the iPhone uses unix? I was shocked when my friend told me. I'm using a 1lb unix-based computer to make phone calls.
Anyway, I disgree a bit. Liike I said, I can't quite pin it down but I know two things -
1) there is a certain widespread meme that disuades a majority of the population from believing in small-scale, focused coordinated effort ("conspiracies"). I believe it's a natural outgrowth of an efficient form of altruism.
2) to create change, you have to judge effort, scale and time window. You don't need a large number of people but their shared context must be high (vocabulary, goals, reactions), their action must have multiplicative effect so it's probably media-based and it must occur at the right times.
Obama doesn't look like change because he's not. However, the blowup of Madoff & Citadel and Hot Rod sure looks like change.
Is it coordinated action?
6) Monorail
When I consider that the combined labor of millions are necessary to support these kinds of life-styles, my Irish blood starts to boil.
9 out of 10 posters on this board are complete morons.
You see that, Krugman? That's called infrastructure.
7). Horse and buggy
1 in 10 posters are not morons ...
The Nobel is paid in Euro's. Think he asked for it in 100's and is going to pay his cabbie on the way home from the airport with one of them?
And I'm imagining he's wearing his Official Mortgage Pig "Too big to slap" tee under the tuxedo. What till he flashes that to the pricess.
"...to create change, you have to judge effort, scale and time window. "
Do you know anyone who has a sufficiently comprehensive grasp of large systems to know what to change and what the outcome will be? Lenin is an example of clever fallibility. Lenin's cleverness gave birth to Stalin, Stalin broke the spirit of a people, and the system itself collapsed 37 years after his death.
But yes, disasters can induce change. Other factors beyond human control can induce change.
Anon - hey! it's Saturday night. Loosen up a little
8) California High Speed Rail between LA & SF to revitalize Bakersfield and the Central Valley.
Amtrak for the 21st Century.
Wow. After convincing me to become a pinko, now Krugman's gonna start talking up aristocracy.
8) California High Speed Rail between LA & SF to revitalize Bakersfield and the Central Valley.
~ Does Bakersfield still have a reason for existing ?
Is it possible that Prof. Krugman was going to do some HP (Hanky Panky) under the tablecloth with the Princess? Something inflationary, perhaps?
wax that!
Masters of the Universe (Fraudsters and Profiteers)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4YbXnPqQrc&eurl=http://www.stockmarketimplode.com/
Krugman does not wax his va-jay-jay
hello.....ya pussies.
Broward Horne, I only understand at 75% of you post, yet you are one of my favorite posters.
I really believe in hinge periods where a individual has immense leverage to change things.
Small groups can also do the same thing, yet they usually have a once in a generation leader. Media? Not always. Islam for instance
Anon, re: 9 of 10 posters are morons. You made it 10 of 11.
I sit corrected. Nobel money IS taxable.
I read somewhere 40 years ago that in order to keep confiscatory govenrments from profiting from the award that Nobel would pay the taxes. Guess I got that one wrong. Mea culpa y'all.
Congratulations!
These ceremonies remind me of the selection of A NEW POPE.
Other factors beyond human control can induce change
"God outed Madoff".
Can someone please send some smoke signals
out to CSC. With this new CS-Companion people can filter out stupids. Manage some of what is viewed and create a much better posting environment. A lot of why he stated he was done is now taken care of.
As much as I miss Tanta (and damn do I) I always felt CSC added a much needed angle on things. And I'm man enough to admit I miss him too. Come back CSC.
Rob Dawg writes:
I know for certain that all our lives are more difficult because of Prof Krugman.
difficult maybe
but that does make our lives better , or worse?
the truth is difficult
I really believe in hinge periods where a individual has immense leverage to change things
I know they exist because I've used them a few times in the past and I can sometimes find cause-and-effect in the meme graphs.
It's a lot of guesswork and interpretation. There are people who are cognizant of culture that intuitively grasp it and shape outcomes.
Today's politicians use a lot of feedback to mimic it.
I'm tainted from 1992 when Clinton was elected. It was before the public Internet. The disconnect between public media and private Internet groups was very high.
None of us understood the resilience of popular culture at that time, we vastly underestimated how long it would take for the media and government to destroy their credibility.
mmckinl writes:
"[quoting] 8) California High Speed Rail between LA & SF to revitalize Bakersfield and the Central Valley.
~ Does Bakersfield still have a reason for existing ?"
How else do you think they got enough votes to make it pass by a hair?
(krugman) Another damned hack economist picking up some tax free money from Sveedish socialists...
I'd love to watch one of these clowns on a trading desk. He'd be broke within a week.
Economists are Wall Street's pitch men. They will argue either side for a stipend. Sometimes just for a free meal.
Ross | 12.13.08 - 6:34 pm | #
so are you saying Krugman argues both sides???
I thought he was clearly a liberal
and is on record as saying so
maybe you are confused
From Mishs Blog
We're hearing that the smart money KNEW Bernie had to be cheating, because the returns he was generating were impossibly good. Many Wall Streeters suspected the wrong rigged game, though: They thought it was insider trading, not a Ponzi scheme. And here's the best part: That's why they invested with him.
One Madoff investor, himself a legend, told me that Madoff's performance "just doesn't make sense. The numbers can't be straight." Another sophisticated Madoff investor actually went through trade confirms in order to reverse-engineer the strategy and said, "it doesn't add up."
So why did these smart and skeptical investors keep investing? They, like many Madoff investors, assumed Madoff was somehow illegally trading on information from his market-making business for their benefit. They didn't consider the possibility that he was clean on that score but running a good old-fashioned Ponzi scheme.
YLSP writes:
Ahhh okay. I'm just not adding any response-provoked thoughts on the current issues of the thread I suppose. I don't use CR Companion because it's more fun that way.
me either
and i dont wear a "rain coat"
Broward Horne, can you elaborate on the Obama campaign funds, Citadel, Madoff, Blogovich link?
My guess is Madoff did his ponzi thing, worked the money up through Citadel to Obama's campaign warchest, and when the ponzi blew, they needed to take out Blogovich to make an ugly but necessary distraction. Struggling with the last part.
Hey mock,
Not singling out Krugman. I know his politics. It was more a comment about the profession.
Broward, what you describe is the 'accident of great fact men.
Broward Horne, can you elaborate on the Obama campaign funds, Citadel, Madoff, Blogovich link?
I don't know. You already know more than I do.
I don't search for specifics, I look for anomalous patterns. The timing and location and effect of these things seems connected. It may be conscious action, it may be cause-n-effect. It may be a Democrat faction. It may be a Bush faction.
It could be coincidence in that they were all trigged by the on-going Crash.
It seems odd to me, though, so many negative forces for Democrats in such a small time span and physical location.
Does Bakersfield still have a reason for existing ?
\t mmckinl
mmckinl | 12.13.08 - 8:56 pm | #
It gives the folks in Taft and Delano a big city to visit.
LOL @ mockturtle. You can catch a nasty bug not wearing your raincoat...
You experimenting with a Obama meme plant?
Might see more pressure for regulation now from people who have the weight to make it happen.
Madeoff lost for his investors a total that rivals the worlds gold market.
The Tiny Size Of The Gold Market
mock turtlewrites:
\tRob Dawg writes:
I know for certain that all our lives are more difficult because of Prof Krugman.
difficult maybe
but that does make our lives better , or worse?
the truth is difficult
I must admit that i was deliberately vague for precisely that reason. I personally think he is not deserving of a Nobel but I also recognize I am in a minority for now and might even be wrong. Still the very idea that he choses "conscience of a liberal" grates on me seeing as I have Goldwater's original on my shelf.
In contrast; I don't always agree with George Will but I never come away dumber and more confused.
CR
have you read
and could you comment on GM s link from 8:15 pm
Credit crunch? What credit crunch?
| Reuters
re a reuters article that says there is no credit crunch
Princess Madeleine?
Roubini will get even.
George Will ?
A shill for plutocrats ...
Jeez mmclinl, Pluto ain't a planet anymore!
The culture shock I felt upon my return was so severe I was in a stupor for a month not knowing how to direct my life. I did not feel safe sitting in a house with a mortgage. I did not feel safe in America itself. I saw a nation of people carrying massive amounts of credit card debt and few practical skills. They had less of a safety net than a Thai farmer. How would they fare in a future that seemed to offer nothing, but apocalyptic scenarios? Peak oil, peak natural gas, peak metals, peak food, peak everything. And climate change already upon us, too. This forward tilted perspective made me feel I was slowly going mad while all around me people continued as if life was normal. Catherine wanted to remodel the bathroom.
--mm
On the other hand, I'd do her.
dr munch | 12.13.08 - 8:33 pm |
dont you have it backwards?
Sit and judge the streets of bakersfield
YouTube -
Steve writes:
Wow. After convincing me to become a pinko, now Krugman's gonna start talking up aristocracy.
Steve | 12.13.08 - 8:54 pm
Secretly we all want to be elite and part of the controlling few. Rich, powerful, living the "lottery" lifestyle. The seduction is so strong that co opting the academics and politicians is childs play.
I've repeated this many times. The greatest damage being done is the destruction of the "American Dream" myth.
Of course we could always swim in the Kern river again.
YouTube - Merle Haggard Kern River
mock turtle | 12.13.08 - 9:28 pm
Exactly why we need a bank holiday, nationalization , Swedish Plan call it what you will. To get to the bottom of this mess.
I know that a lot of the extra borrowing was in response to the perception of a credit crunch by borrowers that fully used credit lines at banks and issued extra bonds for the liquidity.
BH,
Coincidence is never coincidental.
Circles within circles is the pattern.
Cliches are the refuge of weak reasoning. Effective though.
Some people never read history, bring out the guillotines!
AIG Said to Offer Retention Payment to Bigger Group of Workers
By Hugh Son
Dec. 13 (Bloomberg) -- American International Group Inc., the insurer under fire for paying 168 executives not to quit after a government takeover, is giving retention awards to at least 2,000 more employees, according to a person familiar with the matter.
The retention bonus equals as much as a years salary and recipients were ordered to keep the payment secret, said the person, who declined to be named because the plan was labeled confidential. Awards were offered to as much as 10 percent of staff at businesses that are for sale, including plane-leasing and insurance units in the U.S. and overseas, the person said.
tg is a born & bred dope in a
Why should I want to walk the streets of Bakersfield ... ?
Krugman and Roubini
The only two truth tellers
Of the last few years.
The 8 years of Bush economic and foreign policy have ruined the US, probably forever.
GM,
Circles within circles. Reminds me of the song 'Windmills of your mind' in the original 'Thomas Crown Affair.' Great song.
Rob Dawg
we may disagree at times...but
like you i have a lot of respect for barry goldwater
GM,
Circles within circles. Reminds me of the song 'Windmills of your mind' in the original 'Thomas Crown Affair.' Great song.
\t Ross
I was torn twixt the Dune series and my favorite the Chronicles of Amber. Call me Cowrwin. I'm just happy the girl joined Thomas in the end.
Why should I want to walk the streets of Bakersfield ... ?
mmckinl | 12.13.08 - 9:52 pm | #
YouTube -
"Extremism in the defense of the country is no vice!" Who said that?
Comrade Kristina
thanks for the warning about bugs and rain coats! :
btw
from a couple of days ago...
i saw you accepted my apology
you quoted roubini correctly
i was wrong
and
i did not mean to offend
i promise to wear my rain coat when ever i go "outside"
Sting's version is pretty good.
YouTube - Sting - Windmills Of Your Mind
Dawg has walked the pattern.
001
the quote is
extremism in defense of liberty is no vice
goldwater
I wonder when King Paulson's daughter will marry.
When GWB was elected I finally understood America had its own Aristocracy. After GWB tax cuts were implemented and the death tax was eliminated I understood how damaging it was to America. Wealth must be destroyed to give each generation the chance of creating their own future and not one dictated by the past.
mock - thank you, now it makes sense. Funny how the mind plays tricks.
I remember the bumper stickers. AuH2O.
He was the only guy with a tatoo I would ever vote for.
GM,
Come on. What the hell would Paris Hilton do?
I still wouldn't be shocked if Madoff says tomorrow, "Come on everyone, game over. The Fed, Treasury, Wall Street, Republicrats... They're all in on it.
And the consumer."
Ross
yes!
that was cool
"What the hell would Paris Hilton do?'"
Elliot Spitzer come to mind.
I was thinking more like craigs list.
I still think "Madoff" is Bernanke's code name at the secret service.
Make a crappy porn video. Really, if she would have been great to watch in the sack I would give her some respect for having some skill.
Like putting a VW engine in a Ferrari. All show and no go.
Not that I searched out the video to see what she looked like naked.
Dawg has walked the pattern.
\t tg is a born & bred dope
Either that or I'm afraid to walk the streets of Bakersfield.
If the profits never existed... does that mean the clients can file amended back tax returns and pick up some loses and refunds ?
5) buy a bike
hey
GM
im an old fart
used to live in north stamford conn
one day, while driving my bmw
i pulled up to a light in greenwich
reved my engine
the guy next to me
looked one hell of a lot like
paul neuman (may he rest in peace)
in a VW bug!!!!!
we traded glances
light turned green
and we both took off like bats out of hell
found out later that neuman put a porche engine in his vw bug just to rock the world of anybody that wanted to play
as you may know he was a well respected SCCA race car drive!!!
RayOnTheFarm writes:
If the profits never existed... does that mean the clients can file amended back tax returns and pick up some loses and refunds ?
no, because the tax rate is actually higher on stupid
mock turtle,
Great story. Paul Newman was what we should all aspire to in character and deed.
Either that or I'm afraid to walk the streets of Bakersfield.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 12.13.08 - 10:17 pm | #
If will be alright if we make it through December. (I preferred Sam to Corwin.)
YouTube -
No mas I promise.
Look what he's missing!
A Plea for the Canada Plan - J. Bradford DeLong's Grasping Reality with All Eight Tentacles
Mock,
Great story. My Aunt met him once at a social and was disappointed that he was so small. She estimated he was 5' 5" and weighed in at less than 140.
Good actor though. Great career. RIP Cool Hand.
GM
yeah he was the real deal
walked his talk
did a lot for kids
he experienced a lot of glory and
a lot of pai
Ross
yeah
amazing so many of these guys
like tom cruise
are not very tall
coincidence?
Check out 'Hondo' if you haven't seen it lately. Great flick.
"I really believe in hinge periods where a individual has immense leverage to change things
"I know they exist because I've used them a few times in the past and I can sometimes find cause-and-effect in the meme graphs."
What people do causes changes. The changes affect people. That doesn't mean that it's possible for one person to predict the effects of his actions on an entire society.
001
will do
always been a neuman fan and thats one ive never seen
great suggestion
Excuse me, 'Hombre'. Man, I think I'm loosin' it.
Jesse's Café Américain: Capitalism II: Brave New World
Films are indeed deceptive. Allan Ladd was maybe 5'4". The story goes that they dug a trench for the leading lady to walk in when they filmed 'Shane."
No matter.
Richard Boone is in it and he plays one of the baddest bad guys I've ever seen -
" Paul Newman was what we should all aspire to in character and deed."
I aspire to be born good looking. In the next life.
well
its 730 here on the left coast
and my version of princess madeleine
(or is she more like Madame Le Moderateur)
see Jesse's Café Américain
and scroll down near the bottom on the left...
is telling me i better
get off the computer and get my posterior out the door
or she will turn me into a toad
we are late...
Krugman got the prize for work he did on international trade many years ago. This has NOTHING to do with the markets in crisis.
Ross: The final measure of the worth of a man is not how "good" a "trader" he is, so stick the "trader" mentality where the sun don't shine.
Rob Dawg, you'll have to get over your angst or it'll kill you.
don't do it! it's like 50 degrees out there!
you'll freeze!
good night, mock -
" This has NOTHING to do with the markets in crisis."
Actually, our sanctification of an economic punditocracy/academy with an incredibly weak grip on reality has everything to do with the crisis.
Since we are on films, a great Christmas movie that gets few accolades was a made for TV movie in the 70's. "The Gathering" with Ed Asner was a wonderful movie about healing and reconciliation. I recommend it with all three of my thumbs up.
What a joke this guy is. He is far left and both far left and right are blind, or choose to be.
Check out gloomboom.com - it will make your day!
PDX,
You missed the point. Keep rentin.
So if I had $10 million invested in Madoff's fund, does that mean I can claim a $3000 cap gains loss for the next 3333 years?
I wonder what raccoons will look like in 3333 years...
I'm having trouble mustering sympathy for Madoff's 'victims'. But in a trickle-down ecomony I do feel sympathy for all the people who were depending on them. No recourse for those folks.
Weather Helm, if Madoff issued annual tax statements, they likely had bogus numbers. The IRS gets to pick this carcus as well.
Dang! I have lost it. 'economy'. Sheesh!
Even Shiller has totally lost his mind.
ECONOMIC VIEW; To Build Confidence, Aim for Full Employment - NY Times
I'm quite liberal in my sentiments, but even I'm wondering - is there anyone in the country to the right of Mao in regards to a market-based economy at this point?
"I wonder what raccoons will look like in 3333 years..."
Like a Hell's Angel with goggles on. They will be six feet tall, walk on their hind legs, and get drunk on fermented cactus juice. They will not shave.
Don't you believe in evolution?
"So if I had $10 million invested in Madoff's fund, does that mean I can claim a $3000 cap gains loss for the next 3333 years?"
LOL!!!
Watched "The Hustler" a couple weeks ago. Still holds up. But Jackie Gleason almost steals it as Minnesota Fats.
Don't you believe in evolution?
Pavel Chichikov | 12.13.08 - 10:58 pm | #
Yeah look at Cat in Red Dwarf.
Conjure wants a date with Princess Madeleine.
He says, "Forget the pony."
I believe Ed Asner got blackballed for his liberal stance on something?
What we have here..is failure to communicate.
YouTube - The Best Parts of Cool Hand Luke
HULU.com has a sort on mini-retrospective on Newman going on now. There's one called 'Nobody's Fool' that I would recommend.
Upthread there was a commet about a sleeper turbo-charged VW bug.
Here's my favorite sleeper vehicle.
YouTube - dodge caravan whips camaro
I believe Ed Asner got blackballed for his liberal stance on something?
I thought it was because of his excessively hairy back.
Conjure wants a date with Princess Madeleine.
He says, "Forget the pony." - mp
Can't he at least tell us what the pony tasted like?
Oh yeah, led SAG strike in 1980 at onset of "Reagan revolution".
3333 years is not long enough for evolution to result in noticeable changes
Now, selection is a whole different story
bgates writes:
Even Shiller has totally lost his mind.
Thanks for the pointer, bgates.
Key quote, IMO:
"We will need to go much further and extend credit to households and businesses that would otherwise be ignored."
My question is: Who is We ?
And a bonus question is: Why are these households and businesses ignored?
"Can't he at least tell us what the pony tasted like?"
I can attest for both of us that pony fondue is good.
Better than beef.
bgates,
Economics is simply a function of valuing commodities and the free contracting of labor.
I'll go back the the wise 13th century monks at Salamanca. A fair price is the last price of an un-coerced transaction.
For 200 or more years, a fat steer was/is worth 2 fat hogs with chickens to boot.
Governments may interfere and tell you that this is not so and taxes need to be calculated and and and but in the end, it is always goods for goods and goods for services etc. etc. etc.
Capitalism, Socialism, Communism are just so many isms. The predominate financial/economic system for the last 1,000 years and for centuries to come is WESTERN. It is a function of our mathmatics......force and mass. It is the first infinity based math the world has ever seen. It will die when it dies and not before.
"The measure of whether you win or lose a war isn't whether you enslave or exact tribute from your enemy. It is whether your enemy, in the end accedes and adopts your system.
Thus it can be said that Vietnam, Russia, China and perhaps the middle east lost the war. Certainly many S. American countries are succeding without firing a shot in anger.
Another 4 fingers of Port and i'll toddle off to by trundle bed.
Spakolnia noche.
Well it depends how you define noticeable. I've always believed there is probably an evolutionary mechanism which speeds up mutation rate in times of environmental stress. (Even the stress itself can result in mutation) I'm pretty sure latest genetic theory keeps shortening the number of generations for "noticeable evolution" to occur.
Food and shelter transactions are coerced by nature.
I thought it was the introduction of "Eastern" mathematical principles that enabled trade to flourish in the West due to more complex financing.
My brother used to haul his bikes to WERA races behind a mid-70's VW Van, which he had modified with the Porsche motor.
He said people would look astonished as he blew by them at 80 mph on the freeway.
You will never have a price for beef independent of the price for fighter jets until there is lasting world peace.
I sure hope the chassis, suspension and brakes were beefed up to handle the excess horsepower...otherwise, it was a death trap and your bro is lucky to be alive.
Morrocco - I was thinking the same thing, plus the aerodynamics
@1 currency soon [yogi] | 12.13.08 - 11:18 pm
- Your response is much deeper than my original comment. I like that!
Western Math and accounting began on the checkered table of Robert The Devil. Hence Exchecher.
Study the history of Western math in conjunction with Catholic docturne and the good Doctors of the Church.
The Fed and quantum math were within a few years of each other. Gold is a ware. Gold was $25/oz when beef was 10 cents a pound. Gold is now $750 and beef is $3.00. Go figure. Do the math.
Nothing has changed. We all want it to but it has not.
Rich guys like Bush get out of war because of scuttage. Been that way for eons.
Genetics is fascinating even to a "nurture" leaner like me.
Evening, folks:
OT anecdotal.
Spent the afternoon manning the Xmas tree sale for the local volunteer fire company.
Their trees go for between $30 and $45 for the big ones. This year's sales are down significantly and was told that okay to negotiate if necessary to move trees.
Little over half of sales were reduced prices since folks were very frank that didn't have the money for trees. $20 for $33 list price, etc.
One couple with a very little girl just politely walked out and stated that they were looking for a very small one for their little girl. Didn't have the heart to say out loud that couldn't afford and I didn't really know how to get beyond that facade in front of the child.
biological changes during stress
Locust swarming :: University of Southampton
The notion that your genetic code is just using your body (perhaps collectively with others of the species) to replicate itself explains so much.
But consciousness is the trump card. (Whether god-given or natural isn't too important to me)
yogi - what blows me away is that we are all made out of star dust
Just checked in, and the best thing to comment on seems to be:
VW's and Porsches
The bolt pattern on the VW transaxle/engine joint surface was the same for the VW 4, the 912, and the early 911's. It was a fairly common conversion in the early 70's; hard to find a Porsche engine in a junkyard; lots of totals had their motors go to those conversions. Tires, low gears, the moved CoG, the oil cooling system, and the VW's unpleasant willingness to collapse its wheel inward on a hard corner were all problems, but, in a straight line with new linings on the brakes, I guess it was worth it.
But consciousness is the trump card.
It is what we think of consciousness that is confusing to us. From the gene perspective there is little difference what proteins to build - either for skin or for bones or for axons - and there is no such thing as consciousness. All part of the same program.
Think about the fact that what people think of complex activity, like proving theorems or playing chess, can be done by modern computers. However, things that we take as trivial, like learning the native language or interpreting visual information, is extremely hard to program for computers.
(Pavel, I do not mean to bait you)
GM Is Bankrupt and can't be saved.
Even an offer by the Treasury Department today to provide temporary relief, after the Senate rejected a bailout plan approved by the House, isnt likely to offset the Dec. 10 announcement that GMs 49 percent-owned affiliate, GMAC LLC, lacked the capital to become a bank holding company. That means the financing unit wont be able to access Treasurys Troubled Asset Relief Program to help make auto loans.
Homedad,
Poignant story. I remember in the early 80's, we would box food and presents for families identified by our local 'helping hands' and deliver them in person. It was a good object lesson for the kids. They always, even today remember those evenings.
The kid gains more from the parents' polite sensibility than from a big tree.
Computer produced music is the most "depressing" thing you've ever heard.
We will beat the machine at chess, because we will invent new rules.
MrM,
"Your civilization conjured a novel solution, with your theorocracy of evolution. And why pretend multiple deminsions when there are only two. Direction and extension!"
All the questions of life I refer to my Mexican lawn man but I must caution you that Juan never knows.
001 even the stardust isn't "real", just vibrating a certain way which we can predict reasonably well.
mmckinl writes:
Exactly why we need a bank holiday,
I know that a lot of the extra borrowing was in response to the perception of a credit crunch by borrowers that fully used credit lines at banks and issued extra bonds for the liquidity.
mmckinl | 12.13.08 - 9:45 pm | #
At the rate things are deteriorating, to wit GM's 30 day predicament, the credit crunch is rapidly being superceded by a cash crunch, which will prove totally unresponsive to whatever unimaginable, futile and final congressional/federal stimulus emerges next.
Banks and other recipients of TARP funds are investing tax-payer dollars in zero-yield treasuries, and I'm going one step further and paying 2% fees to hold some credit card cash advances during what I perceive may be a cashless interlude.
Interestingly, the best backgammon players in the world still maintain an edge (last I checked), even though the bots can play the end game perfectly now, and I believe the programs are as sophisticated as chess.
yogi - I know. The spatial relationships of an atom are mind boggling. Then there's all the sub-atomic particles. Life itself truly is a 'miracle', for lack of a better word.
Not to mention the relationship of mind to atom....
How the hell am I going to sleep tonight?
The spatial relationships of an atom are mind boggling
And do not forget - concepts like position or velocity are hard-wired into your brain to optimize your behavior on the regular scale of things. These concepts do not really work at subatomic distances, hence the weirdness of quantum mechanics (same with high velocities and realtivity)
I need to help myself to another drink now
Ross: With regard to the Ponzeconomy--
Will the Government direct an extension?
@1 currency soon [yogi]
If you see it in used (I'm sure out of print), look at "Underhanded Backgammon". Stories of professional club players. Pretty enjoyable.
Tx. "Professional" Backgammon died because the hustler's edge is too big. For me a lifelong diversion but no time lately.
concepts like position or velocity are hard-wired into your brain to optimize your behavior on the regular scale of things.
Not sure on that.
Backgammon has helped me trade in the markets because you must pay attention to short term tactics while having a long term strategy. You must adjust and sometimes even reverse that long term strategy at every single turn, based on things out of your control.
If a chess game develops in unforeseen ways, it's your own fault.
Not sure on that
Even addition and subtraction up to about 5 is hard-wired - tested on babies who cannot talk. It is described in many articles and books.
Facts about DNA: A strand of uncoiled DNA is over six feet in length. A DNA strand replicates itself in a millionth of a second. (Encyclopedia Brittanica)
Not sure either. Remembering the babies crawling out on the glass floor from psych 101. Could you be more specific?
why can't babies walk when they are born? Why does it take a five years to learn to go up and down steps in a reciprocal gait pattern?
@1 currency soon [yogi]
At the little park at Church and Liberty Sts, kitty corner from the WTC mall entrance, the chess and b-gmn hustlers would sit and wait for the "players" to come over at noon and after work.
Great fun to stand and watch those guys work. Probably didn't make anywhere near as much as the guys they took money from, but they got to work in the fresh air, no overhead, and, of course, no taxes.
good night, all
Babies can learn without being able to talk. Monkees can have large vocabularies but they have been unable to learn grammar.
Certain grammatical rules have been claimed to be "hard-wired", but if not used before a certain age are virtually impossible for an adult to acquire.
Linguists have shown, however, that an illiterate, unschooled adult who speaks only slang uses every bit as complicated rules of syntax and grammar as Ivy League professors, and with the same frequency.
Good night.
Good night Yogisa
There are a few up by Bryant Park now.
Many have tried poker, but it's no comparison. I enjoy poker, but backgammon works out the neurons.
The great thing about b-gmn is that, unlike chess, you can be bailed out by the roll of the dice, not some misstep by your opponent or some brilliance on your part. And all the while, in the long run, the better player is going to win.
That's like life, not chess.
There is almost zero chance a beginner will beat an expert in a 13 point match.
And the concept of equity in a position is crucial.
Bail outs are short-lived.
Other facts, recently discovered, about DNA:
People can SHED DNA, depending on their DNA.
People can have multiple types of DNA. For instance, a women's uterin DNA may be different than her blood DNA. (Very rare it appears) Won't release anyone from jail, but might send them back.
We have only just scratched the surface of the little bugars.
I didn't see this posted, so my comment re: Krugman & the Princess
To the victor belongs the spoils.
"There is almost zero chance a beginner will beat an expert in a 13 point match."
And we haven't even mentioned the cube. No, I wasn't saying that anybody can blunder through relying on the fortuitous double-6 in the pinch, only that in chess there aren't any ever.
I'm being called to come to bed, and I'd be a fool to prefer chatting about b-gmn over that, even at my age. Now, if I were actually playing, however...
Polite sensibility counts. I hope it will continue to amaze and surprise us as we cope with what's happening. I can't help but feel that there will be a sort of "status" reckoning to accompany the financial unraveling underway. Hard to buy the privilege of being a jerk/your fellow man's silence on the matter once your money isn't worth anything anymore.
I profess no expertise in the cognitive sciences. But I don't know about "concepts" being hard-wired on the brain. And a lot seems to depend on contextualization when we're talking about something as personal as "consciousness." I feel we humans only know about "consciousness" because we talk to each other about it.
And we don't know what we don't know. Our physical development is, to me, a good example of how we come to terms with this. We need other people to show us how to walk. Do we not also need others to show us how- though not what- to think?
All this talk of backgammon is making me want to play a game. (Though I prefer Go when I have the time/a partner. Let it be known to all and sundry: I am a godawful chess player.)
The wisdom you acquire from collective human knowledge is (almost) infinitely more important than how fast your brain works.
Einstein was slow with numbers...
But I choose to believe a human developing in isolation would outthink a gorilla. Neither would have much chance of survival.
Of course it is possible that learning or originating a complicated idea will improve your brain's "physical" speed, memory, or power, and brains loaded with rational ideas may function more smoothly than others. (Smooth functioning is not the only desired quality)
You punks are just jealous. You may not agree with Krugmans stance on the current crisis and what needs to be done to solve it (if anything) but anyone who has actually studied what he won the prize for (international trade) would give him props.
Losers.
"The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--
Of cabbages--and kings--
And why the sea is boiling hot--
And whether pigs have wings."
"But wait a bit," the Oysters cried,
"Before we have our chat;
For some of us are out of breath,
And all of us are fat!"
"No hurry!" said the Carpenter.
They thanked him much for that.
"A loaf of bread," the Walrus said,
"Is what we chiefly need:
Pepper and vinegar besides
Are very good indeed--
Now if you're ready, Oysters dear,
We can begin to feed."
"But not on us!" the Oysters cried,
Turning a little blue.
"After such kindness, that would be
A dismal thing to do!"
The Walrus and The Carpenter
Do crosswords count as a complicated ideas? :^)
Bringing us back to the locust (article above). The locust must "sense" changes in the environment and collectively change the swarm's behavior. That capacity is hardwired, we assume, but the decision represents processing or primitive thinking. Maybe one locust has an insight and communicates to the group, as a bumblebee communicates a message about a food source miles away.
Granted human "consciousness" can be considered just a linear development of that process, but the knowledge, ideas, and logic we teach one another creates an exponential (infinite) supply of applications. So I think I agree with you Megs, although my brain hurts now.
Forget the electrochemical explanation, but memory must be practiced. I used to race through the NYT in pen. Now I waste my time bickering with the anti-semites on this blog.
"You want to be out in front of everybody else because you want to get whatever food is available. And you don't want to get eaten by the guys in the back who may not get anything, other than you. So there's this doubled-edged thing where you want to get out in front because you want to get the food, and at the same time there's cannibalism happening at really high rates. So that makes the band move."
Strange Behavior Turns Crickets into Cannibals - ABC News
Can never get too many entomology tidbits, thanks. Lack of protein breaks down all animal societies, although the lemmings have learned a different approach and ants will form a suicidal bridge with their bodies.
Hard to believe (but possible) the crickets teach the odd behavior to each generation or that they reason it out and organize each time they need to use it, but it was obviously learned, not evolved. They must have a mechanism to store the knowledge (impulse) in the hard drive in a single generation, and retrieve it when necessary. I seem to recall humans are deemed to have a very limited form of this capacity too, but I don't know whether it's been proven. Those dna hard drives are huge even in insects, no doubt.
Some humans will consciously starve themselves to death for an ideal. We rely on our collective wisdom in every generation not to kill one another for food. The individual's dna is dying to replicate itself, and he shares some of it with his kin. But the amount of shared genes pales in comparison to the percentage of exact same genetic material shared between a dark-skinned pygmy and Princess Whatever. These are hard numbers. In fact, dna knows diversity is also helpful for survival.
@1 currency soon [yogi]
Good morning! You may want to read Steve Pinker's "Blank Slate" and "How The Mind Works". Pinker talks in detail about inborn mental abilities.
Facts about DNA: A strand of uncoiled DNA is over six feet in length. A DNA strand replicates itself in a millionth of a second. (Encyclopedia Brittanica)
That's wrong. A human DNA strand takes hours to replicate. Even E. coli takes about 45 minutes (it can actually replicate faster than that by starting another replication cycle before the old one is done.)
I think the length is about right if you're talking all the DNA in a human cell, although it's in multiple strands and so no individual strand is that long.
That is one party I'd love to crash!
I'm not sure who was the prettier one, Princess Madeleine or Krugman. Yes, you're right, it was princess Krugman by a nose.
MRM
Sort of like the inflation deflation debate. It is an old argument aquired vs wired. In 6 hours a a newborn mountain goat is running up and down rocky slopes @14000 feet elevation. Look at human development it is over years to acheive the same level of comparable efficiency. I do think we are hard wired to learn, and habitualize. So I think you are right in the sense that we must be able to notice and differentiate on a basic level.
Oh, why o why did my ancestors leave that country?
Fan och helvete!
I understand the Nobel Prize is stimulating.
Nobel money is not tax free you trailer trash moron. Guess you can't be blamed for not knowing, I'm sure there are about a hundred degrees of separation between you and any of them.
Krugman helped preserve monarchies around the world and he also helped create some for all practical purposes in countries where monarchs are illegal.