Migration from Boston, NYC and even California to eastern CT is pumping up the population of those towns,such as Pomfret, Woodstock and Putnam. A nice home can be bought for under (2,000sq feet, large yard) 265K....there are commuters to Boston which is 55 -60 miles away. Plus retirees from all the other locations above who like the peace and quiet and non congestion. Tolland,Windham and New London county offer small farms, history and cultural sophistication, but the major urban centers of Boston, Hartford, Providence, plus the seaside beaches and mountains are close by. New York is 2.5-3 hours away. I see cars from California on a regular basis- There are still relative bargains in the northeast if you know where to look.
the state of north carolina has everything (mountains, ocean, intracoastal waters, lakes, great colleges, high tech cities and great weather), and more and more floridians, north easterners and californians are discovering it. i moved there from colorado springs,co, and i'll never look back.
Jeremy Grantham of GMO believes there is a bubble in Boston. He's been trying to convince his wife to sell their Beacon Hill home for a few years now with no luck.
Tell you what, I'd hate to be on the other side of Jeremy's bets.
if i was to move anywhere (currently suburb of NYC), i'd go to North Carolina. it's got it all including the most important aspect, affordability. the flight of people who can't afford the cost of living from the bubble states will just accelerate the problem. the scales are really starting to tip. places like NY and NJ always paid you more to make up for the higher cost of living. the cost to live there are now outweighing the wage differential in other more affordable states. this is bad news for their long term economic viability.
The neighbors who just moved in across the street from me are from Cali... they are a family of six and renting for right now... I assume to save up for a down payment as that house is way too small for six (3 BR 2 Ba - probably 1600 SQFT, 2 car attached garage, medium sized yard in quiet neighborhood, fireplace & lovely sunroom). Still it might sell for as much as $150K here in rural Minnesota but would guess it could fetch $500K or more in either NYC, Boston or Cali.
This guy told me he thought the 'American Dream'... own home, picket fence & back yard for kids to play... was dead and gone until he moved here.
What amazed him even more is there isn't a single 'security system' sign in front of any of the houses anywhere (hunting dogs are the closest thing to security systems we have)... I told him kids leave bikes out in the front yard for days and they never disappear... many people have doors that effectively don't lock.
This guy can't believe it... he wants to know what the difference is between here & LA. What would explain the differences in lifestyle & affordability... The only thing I could suggest was 'snow' lotsa snow and not some where off in mountains to the east but in your yard, on your house and covering the roads... and it usually stays from November until the end of March... might get as deep as 3 feet here. Winters are usually cold & dry. One would think we'd have more snow but we are west of the Great Lakes moisture and on the edge of the Dakotas so it is quite dry. On average we usually only get 50-60 inches a year corresponding to about 5-6 inches of water... about a quarter our annual precip.
With that in mind I suggested he not buy a house immediately... that we really don't consider a successful transfer to Minnesota unless they have been through TWO winters. One winter will sort of 'shock & awe' them... then there follows a beautiful but short spring, summer, fall and before they know it they are looking at another long cold winter... If they willingly stay for two after having been through one... they will stay the rest of their life... I'd bet on it... I see it ALL the time.
Cost of housing was one of the main reasons I moved from New York City to Ohio. I know people here paying under a thousand dollars for apartments that would be $2,500 and up up up in New York.
Analysts' expectations for November's prepayment speeds are for a 15 percent decrease from October. The slowing is due to a slowdown in housing turnover, lower refinancing activity and a two-day drop in collection days.
Cache Valley in northern Utah sounds like Minnesota. dryfly doesn't mention temps but we like to call our area "littel Siberia" and it's not for the lovely view of the mountains (does Siberia have mountains?) One of the continuing chores of local law enforecment is getting people to lock their doors. we do have crime but not enough to make people change old habits yet.
ORFORD, N.H. (AP) -- The one-room cabin David Bischoff built in a cow pasture three years ago has no electricity, no running water, no phone service and no driveway. What it does have is a wide-open view of nearby hills and distant mountains - which makes it seven times more valuable than if it had no view, according to the latest townwide property assessment. He expects his property taxes to shoot up accordingly.
Bischoff and other Orford residents bitterly call that a "view tax," and they are leading a revolt against it that has gained support in many rural towns in New Hampshire.
State officials say there is no such thing as a "view tax" - it is a "view factor," and it has always been a part of property assessments. The only change is that views have become so valuable in some towns that assessors are giving them a separate line on appraisal records.
...
Guy Petell, director of property appraisals for the state, is sympathetic. But real estate ads and sales prove that properties with views fetch a premium, and it would be unfair to homeowners without views to ignore that, Petell said.
"A piece of land on a side of a hill that overlooks a 50-mile or 100-mile radius is going to be worth more than the same piece of land overlooking an industrial complex or a landfill," he said.
In Bischoff's case, the view added $140,000 to his property's underlying value of $22,900. As a result, he expects his property taxes to jump from less than $500 last year to more than $3,000 this year.
Home appraisals, whether in New Hampshire, Texas or California, are supposed to reflect a property's market value. Because the view and other aesthetic considerations affect market value, it is standard practice in the industry to take them into account.
You see dry, you just think your area is worth 150K or so. After the tax man comith(or reads this article), you'll have a 500K estate without having to do anything.
In Oregon, we are definitely seeing a major housing boom, while prices still remain affordable compared to many places. Because of the influx from Cali, builders here have a hard time keeping up with the demand. I expect prices here to keep rising until things even out a little bit nation-wide.
fwiw, my wife and I are selling a home and buying a more expensive on in Pasadena, CA. We have spoken to a number of realtors in this process, and all of them have said the same thing with regard to the housing market, "this summer was really heated, but there has been a major shift going into Fall. The market is much softer, and immediate multiple offers are no longer the rule." In fact we are going to get our new house at (or below, including some credits for repairs) list price.
what do you do during those long cold winters? A question from a sunnier clime.
I like to cross country ski... especially 'back country' in the woods up north or in the Mississippi bluffs & backwaters (solidly frozen by then). A couple hours of that and I'm trashed for the day... pull up next to the wood stove and groan.
I can also 'skate ski' but I'm getting a bit old & frumpy for that. That is the style of cross country you see racesrs use in the Olympics... that will really bust your chops.
The only time it really sucks here in winter is when it gets 'warm'... too warm to skate or ski but too cold for summer activities like fly fishing. Winter in places like Ohio-Indiana-Illinois-Iowa-Missouri are a lot like that... ice storms & slushy freezing rain. Our winters are getting more & more like that... it is going to be 60 degrees today... in November... in Minnesota. Something is wrong, make no mistake.
If global warming continues I may have to move farther north, eh.
You see dry, you just think your area is worth 150K or so. After the tax man comith(or reads this article), you'll have a 500K estate without having to do anything.
But vader... you have to have 'the view' before you can have a 'view tax'... Most places in the Midwest lack that... although my area is known for beautiful views of the 'Upper Mississippi Valley'... I'm stuck off in a 'hollow' with no such 'liability'. Thank goodness!
Just when I think I have a picture confirmed about the hotspots cooling and cool spots warming up, christopher
can make us think that the general shift may have seasonal variations. The current prices may look good enough against the historic ascents. Wil they still look good in 6 months?
CR makes a reference to declining prepayments on MBS notes that needs more explication from our resident economist, Tanta. (Ok anyone.) This is about the readiness of the mortgager to get a leg up on the principal outstanding, no? A declining rate would signal more pressure on the consumer? These mortgagers are foregoing these prepayments so they can put gas/heating oil in their tanks?
Just when I think I have a picture confirmed about the hotspots cooling and cool spots warming up, christopher can make us think that the general shift may have seasonal variations.
Calmo... kind of like 'buy on the rumor and sell on the news'...
All markets jag up & down even inside a long term trend - seasonal or whatever, right? My guess is RE will be the same... and if you know you are going to live somewhere like Cali for years & years... and you can afford to own... why put it off? Buy on a dip and get on with living your life.
I think it is refreshing to read stuff like cb wrote... assuming he isn't planning on flipping the place in six months... or renting it out at a 'profit'.
oops, I didn't actually mean to imply any seasonal veriation, though I think some such trend does exist. The primary reference to seasonal variation, our current realtor, as well as others, have made a point that we wanted to get moving before "the holidays".
my comments was meant to point that a change in the market mentality is shifting perceptibly in favor of buyers.
Scott,
The interesting thing about the Portland/Vancouver area is while prices are shooting up, rents are flat. I am renting a home here for 1200/mo that would cost at least 325k to buy. In other ritzy areas of Portland, 800k houses are renting for under 2k/mo. So the Cali flippers are really pushing houses up far beyond demand or incomes. When this thing corrects, its gonna be ugly. In a neighborhood nearby, over 1/2 of the 30+ home tract is owned by out-of-state speculators who are having a rough time renting the units below the cost of the mortgage/pmi/taxes etc. uggghh
I moved, with my family in tow, from Long Beach California (LA essentially) to Boston for a job. Know what I found?
Housing is a touch cheaper in Boston than LBC. Still, the excise tax on cars levied by the state of Massachussetts, on top of vehicle registration fees, killed us.
Still we rent now, and will be moving outside of the city in a year or two. I'll end up being one of those 1-1.5 hr commuters coming into Boston daily. But the housing costs will make it worthwhile. That and the commuter rail.
From California to North Carolina could be cultural shock. Zenophobes abound, and they are not really kind to Yankees (northerners)- or those from the left coast. Think twice.
vader, you don't know buckshot from bull$hit. read the wilmington star news (online), the newspaper from wilmington, nc, and you will find it more "progressive" than most northern papers. raleigh, durham, chapel hill, and asheville are very blue cities. the rural citizens in this state are like rural citizens in every state, except they are polite and keep whatever biggotted opinions, they may have, to themselves. compared to colorado springs, the christian right vatican from where i moved, this place is san francisco. hey, if you moved out here, you could be darth tater.
garth tater you ain't. one of the saddest things about north carolina is its bbq. there ain't no red sauce. what they got here is a vinegar based pork, that i just can't cotton to. give me texas bbq (but not their favorite political sons), any day.
realist, they used to send in ordained ministers for a group session before Hornets games. i still think they do it for panthers games. while the cheerleaders appear to be a little bit more open-minded, i do not think the land of Jesse Helms and Elizabeth Dole has really fully made it into the 21st century, no matter how "progressive" its college towns are.
It's pretty easy to get a sense of the flow of people using uhaul.com. All you need do is price a one-way trip between two cities, then price the opposite one-way trip.
For example, you can rent their largest truck one-way from Denver to San Jose for $613, but will have to pay $3098 for the opposite one-way rental. Clearly they are having lots of equipment LEAVE California but not a lot going there.
I lived in the south & still do business there... it is as 'diverse' as 'the north'... would anyone for a minute suggest Boston on the coast & Minneapolis on the prairie are all that similar other than they both get snow & love hockey?
I have relatives in NC on the piedmont and have visited them often... it is very different than my northern plains world... but also very different than where I lived previously in western Tennessee & northern Alabama... which is very different than west Arkansas & Pinelands of east Texas or the Georgia-Alabama-Florida 'Panhandle' area... etc.
There are cultural differences EVERYWHERE in this country... hell even WITHIN states. NC is one... big difference from the coast to the piedmont cities to the Appalachians. I get it... there is a huge difference in my state from the Canadian border northwoods to the metro Twin Cities to the Iowa border farm country... each is almost like a different country let alone state... differnt occupations, ethnicities & attitudes.
NC could be a fine place to live... it could also be a sucking hell hole... depends on where you moved & how you acted.
Dry,
Your comments about Minnesota brought to mind an experience of a co-worker who moved there back in the days before Cali real estate went nuts. He got a good job offer from Honeywell and pulled up stakes at TRW. He and family were back shortly. Seems he and the wife attended an evening affair at the high school their daughter attended. Midway in the performance there was a big noise and the doors blew open and a blast of air intered the area with dust and papers flying. The more adventurous members went to investigate. The report was that one wing of the building was gone. A bit of "severe weather" had blown thru. Coats, wraps, kids and wifes were gathered up for a dash to see if the cars were still there then a trip home to see if it was still in one piece. Lucky for them the home still stood and the other car was still on its wheels but 1/2 block down the street. His wife confronted my co-worker and said, "I don't care what you do, but I and the kids on on the next plane to Cali". The other story was of co-workers who were recruited from the midwest who spent a miserable year here, social disruption etc, and then spent a winter back in Peoria before moving back to Cali. Interesting how fast people can get Californicated.
Popcorn anyone? This is good, the family feud as it were...with dryfly maintaining law and order...Ok maybe just manners and civility.
Interesting note Wewa about uhaul rates. Interesting but not that entertaining. You got an opinion on bbq sauce?
dilbert - that is pretty funny. Ya he should have told his wife to settle down, that she would look GREAT in Ruby Slippers!
If the guy worked at Honeywell - I have a pretty good idea where he lived... in the NW suburbs of the Twin Cities... Anoka, Coon Rapids, Blaine... look'em up on MapQuest... that area is KNOWN for lots of tornadoes... the local high school mascot for one of those towns is called 'The Tornadoes'.
Note to self... never move in from out-of-state into an area you don't know and settle down in a place where the sports teams have names like 'The Tornadoes'... there might be a reason other than it sounds good.
Seriously... I have never even felt a slight tremor let alone a full blow earthquake like you all in Cali get... I'd probably mess my shorts... but I have spent many a summer evening watching the sky as tornadoes roared through the county. A few close calls but never a hit.
In most cases we know when to scamper & when not to worry... but like everything in life, sometimes people guess wrong or are unlucky like the folks in S Indiana last weekend... they never had a chance.
Last year I moved from San Diego to Phoenix (yes, it's a DRY heat), mainly due to the price of housing. Right after I bought my place, I noticed some 'for sale' signs pop up in the neighborhood and kept a look out on the 'recently sold' section of the paper. I've gained a bit of value (on paper), but I plan to hold on to the homestead for a few years, and ride out whatever ups or downs the housing market may experience. I figure if I get back at least as much I put in when I do sell, I've done well - anything above that will be a nice bonus.
And hurricanes can make it as far as Central Alabama with significant winds and rain. Significant flooding and wind damage with power outages.
I was there for Camille... had all that and more...
Plus I got to experience a few tornado warnings while in 'Bama... but it is NOTHING like what I've seen out in Kansas & Nebraska. Here in Minnie it is sort of like 'Bama - a few storms, some real bad... but I do business out in Nebraska & Kansas & wow... I've seen the remains of some real doozies out there.
One night I planned to stay in a town on the Nebraska-Kansas border... had meetings there the next day... but the El Cheap motel I always stay at was full (must've been a combine crew coming through... would've slept anyway with all the wall knocking)... so I got a room 'near by'... about 100 miles north on I 80...
That night F3's & F4's rocked that county... blew the El Cheapo motel halfway to Oz... I guess I was right, wouldn't have gotten any sleep...
I learned all this about a month later because driving into town the next day the Nat'l Guard stopped me and turned me back... no one but emergency personnel.
I could see the town off in the distance and it looked like a scene from the movie 'Twister'...
I still go back there and you wouldn't even know anything ever happened. They had it all repaired (except for the trees growing back) in a matter of a month or so. Like grass growing back after a prairie fire... almost instantaneous.
No complaints about upper Midwest (Madison, WI) weather here. I spent most of my life in the lee of Lake Ontario and I do not miss the lake effect snow at all. The winter before I moved out to Wisconsin, I had one stretch where I had to shovel for my sidewalk on 14 consecutive days. That simply doesn't happen when you are west of the Great Lakes.
And, yes, the severe weather can be awesome at times, but with a weather radio, local TV radar that breaks into programming to track cells by neighborhood, and a good siren system, it's hard to be taken by surprise in Dane County.
And, yes, the severe weather can be awesome at times, but with a weather radio, local TV radar that breaks into programming to track cells by neighborhood, and a good siren system, it's hard to be taken by surprise in Dane County.
Unless it is Saturday night and you are in one of the bars after a football game... then your 'typical' Mad City resident would be the last to know if a meteor struck the city.
Unless it is Saturday night and you are in one of the bars after a football game... then your 'typical' Mad City resident would be the last to know if a meteor struck the city.
Not a bad way to go....
I have to say that Madtown and Dane County as a whole is a pretty fine place to live and grow more appreciative every year. Not that I'm endorsing the State St. bar scene.
I was forced to move to Cincinnati from San Diego a year ago because my fiance's father got sick. I was going to stay in Sd and wait for my fiance to come back so we could resume our lives but i found out I was pregnant and then I got in a car accident and broke my dominant arm and it was pretty hard to function without help -so off I went to Ohio. I can't say that I have adjusted well- I love the amount of space you can get in a house but that's about it. I feel dead here and I havve yet to find a decent cheap Thai restaurant. There is some culture but not enough for me and we are so close to Indiana and Kentucky that most of the people here just seem fat, inbred,and dull to me. I just read an article that people were leaving Cincinnati at the highest rate in the country- that it is just a dying town. Why isn't it booming if everyone is flocking to the Midwest? I really want to go back to the west coast but my fiance is now convinced he can't make a living there.( his father is well now) I disagree- if you are excellent at what you do there is the potential to make a very large income- i felt he gave up too soon. And even if you don't you still have access to so much- great food, interesting people,culture,the ocean, desert and mountains ... it's a trade off in my opinion, sapace versus access and opportunity.
I have lived in California for the last 35 years and can't wait to get out. The housing market is sky high even in the smallest crappy towns, the taxes will kill you, and finding jobs in an office, sales, and about half of the county or state jobs, you better expect to know Spanish. I used to live in a nice neighbohood, but now have junkies living on both sides of me who have pretty well cleaned me out(got to pay for that habit). We also just found out the guy with the beautiful home at the end of our street is fronting money for the Norteameracanos gangs. Too bad the law couldn't get enough on them to prosecute. I talked to a lot of people about living in Ca. and they said the same thing! They either want out or or getting out. I know I'm gone in less than a year.
Migration from Boston, NYC and even California to eastern CT is pumping up the population of those towns,such as Pomfret, Woodstock and Putnam. A nice home can be bought for under (2,000sq feet, large yard) 265K....there are commuters to Boston which is 55 -60 miles away. Plus retirees from all the other locations above who like the peace and quiet and non congestion. Tolland,Windham and New London county offer small farms, history and cultural sophistication, but the major urban centers of Boston, Hartford, Providence, plus the seaside beaches and mountains are close by. New York is 2.5-3 hours away. I see cars from California on a regular basis- There are still relative bargains in the northeast if you know where to look.
the state of north carolina has everything (mountains, ocean, intracoastal waters, lakes, great colleges, high tech cities and great weather), and more and more floridians, north easterners and californians are discovering it. i moved there from colorado springs,co, and i'll never look back.
Jeremy Grantham of GMO believes there is a bubble in Boston. He's been trying to convince his wife to sell their Beacon Hill home for a few years now with no luck.
Tell you what, I'd hate to be on the other side of Jeremy's bets.
if i was to move anywhere (currently suburb of NYC), i'd go to North Carolina. it's got it all including the most important aspect, affordability. the flight of people who can't afford the cost of living from the bubble states will just accelerate the problem. the scales are really starting to tip. places like NY and NJ always paid you more to make up for the higher cost of living. the cost to live there are now outweighing the wage differential in other more affordable states. this is bad news for their long term economic viability.
The neighbors who just moved in across the street from me are from Cali... they are a family of six and renting for right now... I assume to save up for a down payment as that house is way too small for six (3 BR 2 Ba - probably 1600 SQFT, 2 car attached garage, medium sized yard in quiet neighborhood, fireplace & lovely sunroom). Still it might sell for as much as $150K here in rural Minnesota but would guess it could fetch $500K or more in either NYC, Boston or Cali.
This guy told me he thought the 'American Dream'... own home, picket fence & back yard for kids to play... was dead and gone until he moved here.
What amazed him even more is there isn't a single 'security system' sign in front of any of the houses anywhere (hunting dogs are the closest thing to security systems we have)... I told him kids leave bikes out in the front yard for days and they never disappear... many people have doors that effectively don't lock.
This guy can't believe it... he wants to know what the difference is between here & LA. What would explain the differences in lifestyle & affordability... The only thing I could suggest was 'snow' lotsa snow and not some where off in mountains to the east but in your yard, on your house and covering the roads... and it usually stays from November until the end of March... might get as deep as 3 feet here. Winters are usually cold & dry. One would think we'd have more snow but we are west of the Great Lakes moisture and on the edge of the Dakotas so it is quite dry. On average we usually only get 50-60 inches a year corresponding to about 5-6 inches of water... about a quarter our annual precip.
With that in mind I suggested he not buy a house immediately... that we really don't consider a successful transfer to Minnesota unless they have been through TWO winters. One winter will sort of 'shock & awe' them... then there follows a beautiful but short spring, summer, fall and before they know it they are looking at another long cold winter... If they willingly stay for two after having been through one... they will stay the rest of their life... I'd bet on it... I see it ALL the time.
Cost of housing was one of the main reasons I moved from New York City to Ohio. I know people here paying under a thousand dollars for apartments that would be $2,500 and up up up in New York.
dryfly
what do you do during those long cold winters?
A question from a sunnier clime.
This is interesting: US mortgage bond prepayments fell in October
Analysts' expectations for November's prepayment speeds are for a 15 percent decrease from October. The slowing is due to a slowdown in housing turnover, lower refinancing activity and a two-day drop in collection days.
Best to all!
Cache Valley in northern Utah sounds like Minnesota. dryfly doesn't mention temps but we like to call our area "littel Siberia" and it's not for the lovely view of the mountains (does Siberia have mountains?) One of the continuing chores of local law enforecment is getting people to lock their doors. we do have crime but not enough to make people change old habits yet.
what do you do during those long cold winters?
A question from a sunnier clime.
th
here in Utah, we put on a coat and keep working.
Speaking of views for the snow bound.
Link
You see dry, you just think your area is worth 150K or so. After the tax man comith(or reads this article), you'll have a 500K estate without having to do anything.
In Oregon, we are definitely seeing a major housing boom, while prices still remain affordable compared to many places. Because of the influx from Cali, builders here have a hard time keeping up with the demand. I expect prices here to keep rising until things even out a little bit nation-wide.
fwiw, my wife and I are selling a home and buying a more expensive on in Pasadena, CA. We have spoken to a number of realtors in this process, and all of them have said the same thing with regard to the housing market, "this summer was really heated, but there has been a major shift going into Fall. The market is much softer, and immediate multiple offers are no longer the rule." In fact we are going to get our new house at (or below, including some credits for repairs) list price.
what do you do during those long cold winters? A question from a sunnier clime.
I like to cross country ski... especially 'back country' in the woods up north or in the Mississippi bluffs & backwaters (solidly frozen by then). A couple hours of that and I'm trashed for the day... pull up next to the wood stove and groan.
I can also 'skate ski' but I'm getting a bit old & frumpy for that. That is the style of cross country you see racesrs use in the Olympics... that will really bust your chops.
The only time it really sucks here in winter is when it gets 'warm'... too warm to skate or ski but too cold for summer activities like fly fishing. Winter in places like Ohio-Indiana-Illinois-Iowa-Missouri are a lot like that... ice storms & slushy freezing rain. Our winters are getting more & more like that... it is going to be 60 degrees today... in November... in Minnesota. Something is wrong, make no mistake.
If global warming continues I may have to move farther north, eh.
You see dry, you just think your area is worth 150K or so. After the tax man comith(or reads this article), you'll have a 500K estate without having to do anything.
But vader... you have to have 'the view' before you can have a 'view tax'... Most places in the Midwest lack that... although my area is known for beautiful views of the 'Upper Mississippi Valley'... I'm stuck off in a 'hollow' with no such 'liability'. Thank goodness!
Just when I think I have a picture confirmed about the hotspots cooling and cool spots warming up, christopher
can make us think that the general shift may have seasonal variations. The current prices may look good enough against the historic ascents. Wil they still look good in 6 months?
CR makes a reference to declining prepayments on MBS notes that needs more explication from our resident economist, Tanta. (Ok anyone.) This is about the readiness of the mortgager to get a leg up on the principal outstanding, no? A declining rate would signal more pressure on the consumer? These mortgagers are foregoing these prepayments so they can put gas/heating oil in their tanks?
Just when I think I have a picture confirmed about the hotspots cooling and cool spots warming up, christopher can make us think that the general shift may have seasonal variations.
Calmo... kind of like 'buy on the rumor and sell on the news'...
All markets jag up & down even inside a long term trend - seasonal or whatever, right? My guess is RE will be the same... and if you know you are going to live somewhere like Cali for years & years... and you can afford to own... why put it off? Buy on a dip and get on with living your life.
I think it is refreshing to read stuff like cb wrote... assuming he isn't planning on flipping the place in six months... or renting it out at a 'profit'.
oops, I didn't actually mean to imply any seasonal veriation, though I think some such trend does exist. The primary reference to seasonal variation, our current realtor, as well as others, have made a point that we wanted to get moving before "the holidays".
my comments was meant to point that a change in the market mentality is shifting perceptibly in favor of buyers.
Scott,
The interesting thing about the Portland/Vancouver area is while prices are shooting up, rents are flat. I am renting a home here for 1200/mo that would cost at least 325k to buy. In other ritzy areas of Portland, 800k houses are renting for under 2k/mo. So the Cali flippers are really pushing houses up far beyond demand or incomes. When this thing corrects, its gonna be ugly. In a neighborhood nearby, over 1/2 of the 30+ home tract is owned by out-of-state speculators who are having a rough time renting the units below the cost of the mortgage/pmi/taxes etc. uggghh
It's okay. Californians don't want their children hanging around after they're all grown up anyway.
I am an odd case...
I moved, with my family in tow, from Long Beach California (LA essentially) to Boston for a job. Know what I found?
Housing is a touch cheaper in Boston than LBC. Still, the excise tax on cars levied by the state of Massachussetts, on top of vehicle registration fees, killed us.
Still we rent now, and will be moving outside of the city in a year or two. I'll end up being one of those 1-1.5 hr commuters coming into Boston daily. But the housing costs will make it worthwhile. That and the commuter rail.
HousingTracker.net | Residential Real Estate Listing Statistics by City
very slick.
Remember -- It is a lot easier to go down than it is to go up.
You guys are right about NC having everything. Tons of right wing jesus freaks. Great for target practice. Got buckshot?
No buckshot.
Some artillary shells left over from the War of Northern Aggression. A bit rusty, but you know waste not want not.
From California to North Carolina could be cultural shock. Zenophobes abound, and they are not really kind to Yankees (northerners)- or those from the left coast. Think twice.
vader, you don't know buckshot from bull$hit. read the wilmington star news (online), the newspaper from wilmington, nc, and you will find it more "progressive" than most northern papers. raleigh, durham, chapel hill, and asheville are very blue cities. the rural citizens in this state are like rural citizens in every state, except they are polite and keep whatever biggotted opinions, they may have, to themselves. compared to colorado springs, the christian right vatican from where i moved, this place is san francisco. hey, if you moved out here, you could be darth tater.
Realist: Vader could get by on his southern manners and drawl as he is southern born and bred. Might have to get used to the bbq sauce though.
As to buck shot, do you prefer bullseye or red dot?
garth tater you ain't. one of the saddest things about north carolina is its bbq. there ain't no red sauce. what they got here is a vinegar based pork, that i just can't cotton to. give me texas bbq (but not their favorite political sons), any day.
realist, they used to send in ordained ministers for a group session before Hornets games. i still think they do it for panthers games. while the cheerleaders appear to be a little bit more open-minded, i do not think the land of Jesse Helms and Elizabeth Dole has really fully made it into the 21st century, no matter how "progressive" its college towns are.
It's pretty easy to get a sense of the flow of people using uhaul.com. All you need do is price a one-way trip between two cities, then price the opposite one-way trip.
For example, you can rent their largest truck one-way from Denver to San Jose for $613, but will have to pay $3098 for the opposite one-way rental. Clearly they are having lots of equipment LEAVE California but not a lot going there.
Another place people are exiting fast is Chicago.
vader, bushco won the popular vote. using your logic, isn't it time for you to leave the country?
I lived in the south & still do business there... it is as 'diverse' as 'the north'... would anyone for a minute suggest Boston on the coast & Minneapolis on the prairie are all that similar other than they both get snow & love hockey?
I have relatives in NC on the piedmont and have visited them often... it is very different than my northern plains world... but also very different than where I lived previously in western Tennessee & northern Alabama... which is very different than west Arkansas & Pinelands of east Texas or the Georgia-Alabama-Florida 'Panhandle' area... etc.
There are cultural differences EVERYWHERE in this country... hell even WITHIN states. NC is one... big difference from the coast to the piedmont cities to the Appalachians. I get it... there is a huge difference in my state from the Canadian border northwoods to the metro Twin Cities to the Iowa border farm country... each is almost like a different country let alone state... differnt occupations, ethnicities & attitudes.
NC could be a fine place to live... it could also be a sucking hell hole... depends on where you moved & how you acted.
Pax everyone.
Realist:
By my logic, Bush lost the last election. So much for my logic.
But me thinks you shot at the wrong person. No problem, I'm used to it.
Dry,
Your comments about Minnesota brought to mind an experience of a co-worker who moved there back in the days before Cali real estate went nuts. He got a good job offer from Honeywell and pulled up stakes at TRW. He and family were back shortly. Seems he and the wife attended an evening affair at the high school their daughter attended. Midway in the performance there was a big noise and the doors blew open and a blast of air intered the area with dust and papers flying. The more adventurous members went to investigate. The report was that one wing of the building was gone. A bit of "severe weather" had blown thru. Coats, wraps, kids and wifes were gathered up for a dash to see if the cars were still there then a trip home to see if it was still in one piece. Lucky for them the home still stood and the other car was still on its wheels but 1/2 block down the street. His wife confronted my co-worker and said, "I don't care what you do, but I and the kids on on the next plane to Cali". The other story was of co-workers who were recruited from the midwest who spent a miserable year here, social disruption etc, and then spent a winter back in Peoria before moving back to Cali. Interesting how fast people can get Californicated.
Popcorn anyone? This is good, the family feud as it were...with dryfly maintaining law and order...Ok maybe just manners and civility.
Interesting note Wewa about uhaul rates. Interesting but not that entertaining. You got an opinion on bbq sauce?
dilbert - that is pretty funny. Ya he should have told his wife to settle down, that she would look GREAT in Ruby Slippers!
If the guy worked at Honeywell - I have a pretty good idea where he lived... in the NW suburbs of the Twin Cities... Anoka, Coon Rapids, Blaine... look'em up on MapQuest... that area is KNOWN for lots of tornadoes... the local high school mascot for one of those towns is called 'The Tornadoes'.
Note to self... never move in from out-of-state into an area you don't know and settle down in a place where the sports teams have names like 'The Tornadoes'... there might be a reason other than it sounds good.
Seriously... I have never even felt a slight tremor let alone a full blow earthquake like you all in Cali get... I'd probably mess my shorts... but I have spent many a summer evening watching the sky as tornadoes roared through the county. A few close calls but never a hit.
In most cases we know when to scamper & when not to worry... but like everything in life, sometimes people guess wrong or are unlucky like the folks in S Indiana last weekend... they never had a chance.
Trailer parks are God's play toys.
Last year I moved from San Diego to Phoenix (yes, it's a DRY heat), mainly due to the price of housing. Right after I bought my place, I noticed some 'for sale' signs pop up in the neighborhood and kept a look out on the 'recently sold' section of the paper. I've gained a bit of value (on paper), but I plan to hold on to the homestead for a few years, and ride out whatever ups or downs the housing market may experience. I figure if I get back at least as much I put in when I do sell, I've done well - anything above that will be a nice bonus.
I've had 3 Tornadoes go over me and hit within a city block.
2 without any warning except the noise.
Central Alabama is on the Southern Tornado fly zone.
The New Madrid fault is a danger for the Central US. Even reaches into Central Alabama.
And hurricanes can make it as far as Central Alabama with significant winds and rain. Significant flooding and wind damage with power outages.
Add heat waves and it almost makes me want to move to Cali to be safe. Yet A lesson that all the risk factors have to be considered.
And hurricanes can make it as far as Central Alabama with significant winds and rain. Significant flooding and wind damage with power outages.
I was there for Camille... had all that and more...
Plus I got to experience a few tornado warnings while in 'Bama... but it is NOTHING like what I've seen out in Kansas & Nebraska. Here in Minnie it is sort of like 'Bama - a few storms, some real bad... but I do business out in Nebraska & Kansas & wow... I've seen the remains of some real doozies out there.
One night I planned to stay in a town on the Nebraska-Kansas border... had meetings there the next day... but the El Cheap motel I always stay at was full (must've been a combine crew coming through... would've slept anyway with all the wall knocking)... so I got a room 'near by'... about 100 miles north on I 80...
That night F3's & F4's rocked that county... blew the El Cheapo motel halfway to Oz... I guess I was right, wouldn't have gotten any sleep...
I learned all this about a month later because driving into town the next day the Nat'l Guard stopped me and turned me back... no one but emergency personnel.
I could see the town off in the distance and it looked like a scene from the movie 'Twister'...
I still go back there and you wouldn't even know anything ever happened. They had it all repaired (except for the trees growing back) in a matter of a month or so. Like grass growing back after a prairie fire... almost instantaneous.
No complaints about upper Midwest (Madison, WI) weather here. I spent most of my life in the lee of Lake Ontario and I do not miss the lake effect snow at all. The winter before I moved out to Wisconsin, I had one stretch where I had to shovel for my sidewalk on 14 consecutive days. That simply doesn't happen when you are west of the Great Lakes.
And, yes, the severe weather can be awesome at times, but with a weather radio, local TV radar that breaks into programming to track cells by neighborhood, and a good siren system, it's hard to be taken by surprise in Dane County.
And, yes, the severe weather can be awesome at times, but with a weather radio, local TV radar that breaks into programming to track cells by neighborhood, and a good siren system, it's hard to be taken by surprise in Dane County.
Unless it is Saturday night and you are in one of the bars after a football game... then your 'typical' Mad City resident would be the last to know if a meteor struck the city.
Unless it is Saturday night and you are in one of the bars after a football game... then your 'typical' Mad City resident would be the last to know if a meteor struck the city.
Not a bad way to go....
I have to say that Madtown and Dane County as a whole is a pretty fine place to live and grow more appreciative every year. Not that I'm endorsing the State St. bar scene.
I was forced to move to Cincinnati from San Diego a year ago because my fiance's father got sick. I was going to stay in Sd and wait for my fiance to come back so we could resume our lives but i found out I was pregnant and then I got in a car accident and broke my dominant arm and it was pretty hard to function without help -so off I went to Ohio. I can't say that I have adjusted well- I love the amount of space you can get in a house but that's about it. I feel dead here and I havve yet to find a decent cheap Thai restaurant. There is some culture but not enough for me and we are so close to Indiana and Kentucky that most of the people here just seem fat, inbred,and dull to me. I just read an article that people were leaving Cincinnati at the highest rate in the country- that it is just a dying town. Why isn't it booming if everyone is flocking to the Midwest? I really want to go back to the west coast but my fiance is now convinced he can't make a living there.( his father is well now) I disagree- if you are excellent at what you do there is the potential to make a very large income- i felt he gave up too soon. And even if you don't you still have access to so much- great food, interesting people,culture,the ocean, desert and mountains ... it's a trade off in my opinion, sapace versus access and opportunity.
I have lived in California for the last 35 years and can't wait to get out. The housing market is sky high even in the smallest crappy towns, the taxes will kill you, and finding jobs in an office, sales, and about half of the county or state jobs, you better expect to know Spanish. I used to live in a nice neighbohood, but now have junkies living on both sides of me who have pretty well cleaned me out(got to pay for that habit). We also just found out the guy with the beautiful home at the end of our street is fronting money for the Norteameracanos gangs. Too bad the law couldn't get enough on them to prosecute. I talked to a lot of people about living in Ca. and they said the same thing! They either want out or or getting out. I know I'm gone in less than a year.