Bloomberg Sues Fed to Force Disclosure
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Fri, 11/07/2008 - 1:15pm (218 comments)
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Hey that gives me an idea.
Throw back the curtain, tear off the veil, out out tumble... THE HOOPAJOOPS
The fed is giving out currency in exchange for collateral which it is then using to back the currency which is paid out to the banks in exchange for collateral which is... ALL HOOPAJOOPS
It's hoopajoops all the way down!
Sweet deal, can we file a class action against the Fed?
As this currency hoopajoop fission/fusion reaction starts, the entire cycle will spin with greater rapidity until it takes off and vanishes into the sky, never to plague anyone's balance sheets again!
Its been tried and it will fail. National Security, dont ya know.
Good For Bloomberg ...
Where is our Congress ?
bought and paid for I'm afraid ...
Weapons of Mass Deception?
/Jas enters stage left:
The USG is expert at stalling FOIA requests. They could drag this out for quite a while.
The un-American, pinky, traitors. If we had a need to know, the fed would have told us.
I can't believe this is the first lawsuit against the criminals at the federal reserve.
We need more oversight and lawsuits against this private company.
If we are using taxpayer backed USD then
we the US taxpayers should have right to
look at the books on both sides of any FED or Treasury deals.
OPEN THE BOOKS NOW!
Two words: national security
Cataloging garbage can be tricky.
Can I sue to find out who all those people were up on stage with O'bama?
two more words: CRONY CAPITALISM
Yep. Shine a light on everything.
Two words: national security
Actually, they'll claim national securities, right
Can I sue to find out who all those people were up on stage with O'bama
Don't need to sue, just at Slick Willy. They are his friends.
My recollection is that Paulson promised as much during the hearings on his 'plan'.
They open the folder and find piles and piles of Darrell Strawberry baseball cards.
Do you really want to know the itemized list of garbage?
Have they refused to provide the info?
Nobody say anything nasty about lawyers for at least a few minutes.
They open the folder and find piles and piles of Darrell Strawberry baseball cards
Nope. A Darrell Strawberry rookie card is worth more than what's in those books.
Two more words:
Rothchild Family
Has anyone sued the fed before?
" Zombie Kung Fu Panda writes:
The USG is expert at stalling FOIA requests. They could drag this out for quite a while.
Zombie Kung Fu Panda | Homepage | 11.07.08 - 4:29 pm | # "
Yep. Well, the Bushies only need to worry about stalling 'til mid-January, and that should be easy. After that, it's up to the ObamaRama to figure out whether they want to come clean or continue the stall.
There's always the "trade secret" exception.
Disclosure of the toxic assets could give competitors an advantage...
Sam D,
I was thinking a motherload of "Forever" USPS stamps.
I know. USFL football cards!
FFDIC writes:
Two words: national security
That's rather an answer in and of itself, isn't it? Not that it will necessarily be taken as one by the market, but I know what I'd conclude.
Nice move by Bloomberg, but I wonder if they'll be able to wrest this information from the secretive Fed. And if they do, will it take forever like some of the other FOIA requests (and by then it will be too late)?
I like Bloomberg news because they seem to have the least amount of bullshit of all the business news websites.
Lawyerliz writes:
Nobody say anything nasty about lawyers for at least a few minutes.
In that case....
ATTORNEY: Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his
> WITNESS: Did you actually pass the bar exam?
I'm sure you could name people from law school most likely to do this. I know I can.
The Fed can't let information about its securities become public for a simple reason:
The market will front run the Fed (taxpayer). If hedge funds got a whiff of the securities posted, then shorts away. Those securities would get pounded, the institutions wouldn't be able to buy them back, and the taxpayer would have been extorted.
Well, while they're at, it maybe they can get Mr Cox to insist all financial institutions disclose what their OBS assets are and also what their L2 & L3 assets consist of by CUSIP.
Geeez
Ponies!!!!
Someday this war's gonna end...
I got information from and insider that there is no gold left in Fort Knox it is now full of Beenie Babies. You know how much those things are worth as level 3 assets.
bearly writes:
Well, while they're at, it maybe they can get Mr Cox to insist all financial institutions disclose what their OBS assets are and also what their L2 & L3 assets consist of by CUSIP.
Haven't you heard from Citi? That's too much trouble to keep track of.
What? The government is keeping secrets from its people? I am shocked, shocked, I say.
Oh well, like Orama said, at least the government of, by and for the people hasn't perished. It's just hiding.
"taxpayer would have been extorted."
Methinks that that has already happened.
Wow, look at that 5 & 10 year Treasury.
Methinks that that has already happened.
I should have said: "even more extorted".
Listen losers . . . Don't you know how this shit works . . . Cut the crap. We've got work to do.
What the Fed is accepting: greasy, black banana peel
Value: $13,900
If PEBO simply undid the 8 year president for executive branch secrecy on every single detail - when he takes office - I'd take it as a major step forward.
oops.... precedent
Why can't they disclose the ones which are worthless? Of course, that would be everything in the vault.
Sovereign defaults
in the works?
"Austria now is the third European country to have cancelled a bond offering in the last few weeks - in the Autrian case the markets are getting more and more nervous over the exposure of some of its key banks (Erste, Raffeison) to the mounting disaster over in Eastern Europe - both Hungary and Ukraine received IMF loans this week (see below) and they certainly won't be the last.
Austria seems to have dropped its plans for a bond launch next week due to the size of the premiums (spreads) investors seemed likely to demand, although the Austrian Federal Financing Agency did not give any explanation for the decision.
Spain, which also currently has a triple A rating, and Belgium have both cancelled bond offerings in the past month because of the market turbulence, with investors again demanding much higher interest rates than debt managers had bargained for."
It looks like the bond vigilantes have left their lair...
Does it even matter what information they get? Is there anyone out there who hasn't already assumed they are taking worthless crap as collateral? This is only going to tell us what we already know, and that is the federal government is going to do whatever it takes to keep these institutions afloat.
I know why Xerox chief was invited -
Xerox is cheaper than printing press.
I think they actually have XFL football cards....
Thank you Kung Fu Panda.
Still waiting for the bank/homebuilder/auto manufacturer foreclosure du jour...,
Obama Administration FAIL #2. Unless of course he does the right thing and immediately comes out and makes it clear that he supports full disclosure. Pardon me if I don't hold my breath for his Bush III team to step up.
Kung Fu Panda - Awesome post.
It begins.
No way anyone gets info hidden by the fed. People will disappear before this case is closed.
Obama Administration FAIL #2
Might as well start keeping track now while you still can.
The "confidential commercial information" argument seems weak."
Sadly, I suspect the court's reasons for denial will be even weaker
Unless of course he does the right thing and immediately comes out and makes it clear that he supports full disclosure.
This is the precise reason that the Board of Governors is set up as an independent federal agency. Even though disclosure is a laudable objective, the FRB shouldn't be beholden to either the Executive or the Congress.
Just the bankers...
Sam Dimond writes:
They open the folder and find piles and piles of Darrell Strawberry baseball cards.
Good one.
[with investors again demanding much higher interest rates than debt managers had bargained for]
That's unacceptable. I think Hank & Ben need to get over there stat and guarantee that debt immediately. We can't have yields for anything on earth go UP.
"They open the folder and find piles and piles of Darrell Strawberry baseball cards."
Tulip futures contracts, and stock certificates of The South Sea Company and WebVan.
Read Volcker's interview with Charlie Rose again.
Banks have been nationalized either overtly or covertly by actions of the Fed.
So what's the surprise.
Only that GS spoke to C about merging? Hahahahahaha
Or that C rejected the offer immediately?
Or that .. ummm... lets just wait.
"Stocks rise after two days of heavy selling"
Buyers returned to Wall Street Friday after two days of heavy losses, mindful of the economy's growing problems but attracted by stocks' lower prices. Analysts said the advance, which also came amid relief that a bad report on unemployment wasn't worse and followed dour third-quarter reports from Ford and General Motors, was to be expected as Wall Street experiences a rocky recovery from October's devastating selling.
Looks like beating the -300k jobs whisper number was the catalyst today.
What if they find out the Fed is really broke and they expose this whole ponzi scheme?? Be careful what we ask for...
Interesting pattern in the TNX don't you think?
If bond yields keep trending up it could have "implications".
mebbe I missed something, but if the Fed is a privately held corporation, then what's the FOIA have to do with it?
Just find a way to sue the Fed, subpoena the stuff and then force what might become a grand, old-fashioned constitutional crisis when they claim that they are/no they aren't under jurisdiction. Or whatever the hell it is.
Help, Liz? Yeah, whatever she says.
That would certainly make life interesting.
And if it really does come to pass that way, then I will unmask myself as the one and only Ron Paul.
Not. He's got more hair and patience than I do.
Interesting about the European bond deals being cancelled, especially in light of the CDS disclosure earlier this week...
FWIW, it's come to "show and tell" to determine if the Fed's actions truly have been sterilized. Please be aware that securities used for collateral for Fed loans take a "haircut" (see this chart for collateral requirements and then place your bets accordingly).
the Fed is a privately held corporation, then what's the FOIA have to do with it?
The Federal Reserve Banks are privately held corporations owned by their member banks.
The Federal Reserve Board of Governors is an independent federal agency.
mebbe I missed something, but if the Fed is a privately held corporation, then what's the FOIA have to do with it?
With the ability to print paper that the USG accepts for payment of taxes.
Wish my company could do that too.
ac... re: TNX
The words... "coiled spring" come to mind....
ac:
um, yeah.
Say wha'? I suck at art.
Bond Girl,
A sovereign default would certainly generate a lot of collateral damage due to the CDS exposures, I agree.
ac,
ayep
Basel:
thanks.
so much for that theory. I got to get me a bigger colander.
This almost looks like journalism.
Thanks, Bloomberg...
whatever the outcome.
The level of invective and drivel all over the net from the Republicans is a wonder to behold. Obama has been president elect for under a week and they're already jumping all over every syllable he utters.
This is gonna be an ugly first year.
This is gonna be an ugly first year.
EB | 11.07.08 - 5:00 pm | #
Agreed. And it will have nothing to do with Obama.
Those countries have interesting company among the most highly traded CDS contracts.... Probably not very comforting for prospective bondholders.
Ooh, ooh!
So is this, like, the time to start shorting the Treasuries?
That would be sweet.
How twisted have I become? The thing's coming totally unglued and I'm channeling Horshak.
I don't know, but I would imagine the Fed is subject to FOIA because of funding.
crispy&cole writes:
What if they find out the Fed is really broke and they expose this whole ponzi scheme?? Be careful what we ask for...
we're still a little ways away from seriously questioning the AAA rating of our sovereign debt. And like it or not "we, the people" stand behind the Fed. Read a couple of months ago, that the CDS spread on our debt has been climbing - slowly.
CR - do you have a recent chart of US Debt CDS?
um, yeah.
Say wha'? I suck at art.
I'm just saying I find the higher and higher lows in the 10 year yield interesting. If the trend continues that's going to make it harder for the Federal government to fund it's bailouts and stimuli.
BTW the TYX doesn't have the same pattern. Not quite sure what to make of the discrepancy.
I think a real key to our fate going forward is whether or not something like this (US long bond crash in 1930s) happens.
EB - agreed - a lot of pent up demand
ac, Noble:
Any thoughts on the DX index? Looks like it has thrown a couple of pins at the 50 day MA, may test that again around...November 15th?
O Babylon
A wasteland of plastic, metal and dreams
How we loved your architecture
It was our only true relationship - we thought
Glorious.
But we were fooled
and soon learned that you existed, not in the architecture
but in the software.
So when you failed us we hardly noticed at first
For the fans still hummed and the lights still blinked
Redundency cradled us in the chill
Twas only when our own machines bluescreened that we realized the truth
To be stranded in a tangle of copper wire
Hypnotized by the flashing lights
Where data was just data again
And we waited for the reboot
and waited
and waited
while the trees still grew.
So what were the rates that were higher than they bargained for?
I wonder if they are waiting for their luck to change. That could get expensive for them, especially considering essentially every government in Europe wants to market debt.
Noble,
IIRC, McDonald's CDS is lower than the USA atm...
ac,
And that all depends on what China (and the ME) decide to do...
Obama Administration FAIL #2. Unless of course he does the right thing and immediately comes out and makes it clear that he supports full disclosure.
You can't be serious.
Look for a terrorist strike on the Fed that wipes out all records of the bubble gum wrappers and baseball cards that were taken in trade for something of dubious value.
Probably an EMP at 12,000 ft somewhere within 700 miles of New York. Smoking PC boards will be all that remains. Might even smoke the electronic cash. Re-set to zero not including the dollar bills in your pocket... Might be a refreshing change....
ac,
"I think a real key to our fate going forward is whether or not something like this (US long bond crash in 1930s) happens."
Book it! They're doing everything in their power to bring it. So I say it's brought.
Knurd!
Nostrovia,
"Austria now is the third European country to have cancelled a bond offering in the last few weeks - in the Autrian case the markets are getting more and more nervous over the exposure of some of its key banks (Erste, Raffeison) to the mounting disaster over in Eastern Europe - both Hungary and Ukraine received IMF loans this week (see below) and they certainly won't be the last.
Austria seems to have dropped its plans for a bond launch next week due to the size of the premiums (spreads) investors seemed likely to demand, although the Austrian Federal Financing Agency did not give any explanation for the decision.
Spain, which also currently has a triple A rating, and Belgium have both cancelled bond offerings in the past month because of the market turbulence, with investors again demanding much higher interest rates than debt managers had bargained for."
Did these countries see the sort of deregulation that the US did? Serious question - I think it's critical to gather empirical support for the underlying cause of this crisis.
I still suspect Keynesian Poisoning, but I'm willing to change my views. If the Austrian view is right I think it's critical to know sooner rather than later to have more scientifically based (rather than ideologically based) economic policy.
During his life even Keynes changed his views and revised his theories when they we're proved invalid by real world evidence. Commendable, and a sign of a responsible scientist (I know a lot about Keynes because I read the wikipedia entry on him).
energyecon,
on the CDS info - if you have a recent chart - would much appreciate it.
I have no idea on the DX.. just know that Jim Rogers in not a fan of DX. Recent action of the DX seems to indicate that the official fake "strong dollar" policy might be over and that a real "strong dollar" policy might be coming on with an Obama administration.
The idea that the U.S. Gov't would default is silly, as long as its debts are denominated in $. They will monitize it before they default. Deflation first, then high (hyper?) inflation later. As for the Bloomberg suit, I think it is clear that the local pawn shop on the wrong side of the tracks is holding higher quality collateral than the Fed. The gold there might be only 14 ct, but at least there is some gold in it.
I don't have any info on what the asked rates were on those European sovereigns...just that the govt agencies in charge probably thought they were "punitive". The post I linked earlier expands with this statement:
"So really many European governments are now facing similar problems to those their banks faced earlier, they can get finance, but only at rates which they consider to be punitively high"
The US isn't the only country facing exponential national debt growth.
Right on Bloomberg! You have my thanks!!! We need less collusion, more disclosure and more honesty!! This is the stuff of watergate and we need justice in America!!! Thank God for Bloomberg and now, maybe we the people can investigate The Department Of Justice and find out why they have aided and abetted in this corruption!
My understanding is black helicopters will land outside the home of Bloomberg's CEO tonight, and the suit will be withdrawn on Monday.
CSC - for someone as young as yourself, I must commend your thought processes. You will definately be a survivor.
The idea that the U.S. Gov't would default is silly, as long as its debts are denominated in $.
Well in practice devaluation of the dollar is a form of default even though technically it's not. The markets know this and if they perceive a steep devaluation of the dollar coming they may well price it into bond yields and/or the dollar itself.
ac:
thanks. my reading list continues to grow.
bearly, just curious to see if you had modeled your election predictions by borrowing Sebastian's Wright Model B?
I had no idea about those European sovereign bond withdrawals; yuck.
Thanks!
OT but some might find it interesting:
The Cuts Continue
Earnings estimates for next year are cliff diving, so as a good rule of thumb when looking at valuations based on next year's earnings use the P/E based on the low estimate, not the mean estimate. For some cheap names on that basis:
Cheap on the Lows
ac,
As far as I know it wasn't deregulation, as financial markets in Europe have been far less transparent than the US for a long time. Apparently about 10 years ago banks in countries in the eurozone started lending to Central and Eastern European countries in euros or in the case of Switzerland in the franc. So there are a lot of loans in Hungary and elsewhere where the borrowers are getting killed by currency issues as well as recklessly large LTV's.
Also, eurozone banks used AIG CDS's to avoid having to raise actual capital. It's been alled "regulatory arbitrage", apparently the European authorities considered the AIG guarantees money good. Now, we all know differently. So eurozone banks were levered up astronomically.
Ministry of Truth writes:
I got information from and insider that there is no gold left in Fort Knox it is now full of Beenie Babies. You know how much those things are worth as level 3 assets.
Depends if they are held to maturity or not.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!
Just when you thought the Bond Vigilantes were dead and gone, Warsh in his speech from yesterday admitted they are coming back!!!
I can hardly wait.
When the long bond is 15%, buy! Because at that point it is either oblivion or glory.
Last time it was glory, this time it might just be oblivion for the dollar.
Someday this war's gonna end...
I had no idea about those European sovereign bond withdrawals; yuck.
Thanks!
Comrade-Dope jg (jg)
This is a reason that I am wondering if the US dollars stinks, but the rest of the world's currencies stink, too, doesn't that make the US dollar more attractive?
Give Obama some due. He stated in Grant Park that 1) this is a big mess we are (& he is) inheriting; 2) this will require sacrifice and difficult choices and take time to resolve; 3) he will not be perfect and he will make choices you do not agree with but will make his case and be honest and listen to your side of the argument.
This is a world apart from our current President.
More importantly, it looks like Obama will avoid the dreaded "first 100 days in office" meme as he seems to recognize that unwinding the last 8 years will take some time.
The idea that the U.S. Gov't would default is silly, as long as its debts are denominated in $.
Well in practice devaluation of the dollar is a form of default even though technically it's not. The markets know this and if they perceive a steep devaluation of the dollar coming they may well price it into bond yields and/or the dollar itself.
ac | 11.07.08 - 5:17 pm | #
True, and I think that T-Notes are in bubble zone, but that is different than someone doing a CDS based on the idea of an actual default. Being the global reserve currency has its privildges. Durring the deflation/deleveraging part of this the T-note bubble might continue to expand, but eventually T-notes and bonds will come to be known by their old name "Certificates of Confiscation"
Rob - Give O a chance...in a year or so if he sucks then - trash away at thim...until then, BushCo is still on the job and his horrible decisions are what is causing this mess
CSC is competing with Pavel for the soulful poetry contest.
Go, guys go. Long poetry!
Homedad, no help from me, this is way above my payscale.
As a civil procedure prof said to us many years ago. Sue everybody. To that I add. For everything, in every possible venue. One is bound to be right.
where's the TNX going to move up to by way of yield? 5? 6? ...If it does, I'm in. I think the domestic demand at those rates may offsets whatever the foreign flight might be.
So, is Greasy Haired Sheila Bair lurking right now? Which banks will die today?
Yeah Dawg, WTF is up with bashing the guy who hasn't even taken office yet? Stick to Snowflake.
Dawg gone rabid
In a very simplistic way it would seem to make sense that the risk has now shifted to the national level. The Central Banks were naive enough to assume that they could either take this garbage directly onto their own books or guarantee their financial institutions with liquidity backstops.
So we saved the banks at the cost of the countries. History will take a very dim judgement of these decisions.
ac,
As far as I know it wasn't deregulation, as financial markets in Europe have been far less transparent than the US for a long time. Apparently about 10 years ago banks in countries in the eurozone started lending to Central and Eastern European countries in euros or in the case of Switzerland in the franc. So there are a lot of loans in Hungary and elsewhere where the borrowers are getting killed by currency issues as well as recklessly large LTV's.
Also, eurozone banks used AIG CDS's to avoid having to raise actual capital. It's been alled "regulatory arbitrage", apparently the European authorities considered the AIG guarantees money good. Now, we all know differently. So eurozone banks were levered up astronomically.
Sounds like governments have been guilty of embracing leverage just as much as private industry. At least they didn't try to stop it. Again it makes me question the limits of oversight if the overseers failed so badly.
Also, with regard to Europe, my recollection of Spain, for example, is that it is much more heavily regulated and socialized than the US (don't know if that applies to their financial markets). Without judging regulation and socialism I still think it's interesting that countries that have more of what people are proposing as the solution to our problem are actually seeing worse problems (assuming that observation is actually correct).
I also find it hard to swallow that we should expect a country to fly off the handle and explode if a few laws are revoked.
To me that suggests something is wrong at a far deeper level.
I wonder if we potentially get ourselves in trouble by using laws to superficially treat much deeper problems.
crispy&cole: Really? This is all bushcos fault? It isn't a 30 year bi-partisan, multi-central-bank fueled, republican and democratic congress approved, mercantilist currency manipulator abetted credit bender finally gone off the rails?
Cheers,
prat
Elvis writes:
This is a reason that I am wondering if the US dollars stinks, but the rest of the world's currencies stink, too, doesn't that make the US dollar more attractive?
Maybe we'll get by stinking less, but I can't shake the feeling that this bear market isn't over.
just read the O press conference thread.
That was as good as MST3K.
Miss that show.
Sure, makes sense, Elvis.
Me, I know what is coming for the S&P 500. So, I stick to shorting that.
Yep, I agree you could make money going long Treasuries over these next few months, but who knows when inflation/default sentiment goes from lightly weighted to overarching concern?
As bucky stinks less, our exports stink more, and they are about the only thing we have going at the moment.
crispy&cole writes:
Rob - Give O a chance...in a year or so if he sucks then - trash away at thim...until then, BushCo is still on the job and his horrible decisions are what is causing this mess.
Agreed. God help us so we can avoid : another war or supporting a bombing campaign by an ally in Iran, bailing out 3 zombie car makers, or Palin becoming a US Senator before 1/20/09?
Obama is going to do just fine. He knows there is a lot riding on just basic expectations of being the first "black" president; let alone the trying to save the occupants of a burning house while the fire spreads to the neighbors and a conflagration could ensue.
He is more of a centrist and a pragmatist than understood by the chattering classes on the far left and the far right....but the voters got it.
Turns out we are not all born and bred dopes after all.
Liz:
When used to handle hospital mal litigation in a previous life, had a suit where the atty actually named one of the housekeeping staff.
That made malpractice coverage issue interesting 'til we found that he'd gotten the name from family member in the course of a general conversation.
I hate lawyers.
no offense intended. you're cool.
For goodness sakes the election is over would you folks please give the politics a rest already?
Let's talk policies, not politics, because that might actually impact the subject material that this blog is supposed to be about.
I have zero confidence in the government's ability to deal with this situation because
A. They don't know what to do
B. Their instincts are all wrong.
Saving the US auto industry may have merit, for example. I don't know I have mixed feelings on the issue but saving it to save the UAW and the pensions of its retirees has NO merit but that is what will animate the political leadership.
"I hate lawyers.
no offense intended. you're cool.
homedad43"
homedad43,
I hate homedads.
no offense intended. you're cool.
Gary, this downturn, peak to trough, will last five years. O- can shorten this by 'liquidating, liquidating, liquidating,' giving his administration a chance to benefit from the recovery at the tail end of his term.
O-, with staff picks from the Clinton/Wall Street/Federal Reserve/business as usual crowd, risks going down in history not as the black JFK but as the black Herbert Hoover.
Change your ways, O-. Step away from the precipice. Bring Ron Paul on as Secretary of the Treasury!
Elvis writes:
So, is Greasy Haired Sheila Bair lurking right now? Which banks will die today?
Wasn't there some talk of Florida? Or was that last week? My memory is shot; every week a new crisis of confidence.
Well, ok, homedad.
headed for Merritt Island.
Had a closing today!!
Also, yet another eviction defense. Poor guy is so nice. Only person left on his floor in this condominium.
So upset about the foreclosure his nose is bleeding. Only can find a part time job. Customers not paying. In the kosher food business.!!
No. It makes hard assets, real essential things, basic commodities, land, metals, food etc. more attractive relative to all currencies.
"That was as good as MST3K.
Miss that show."
You know about Rifftrax, right? They're back.
FDIC: Failed Bank List
All quiet...
I hate lawyers.
Lawyers, or at least JDs.
Barack & Michelle Obama
Joe Biden
Barney Frank
Christopher Dodd
Harry Reid
Just to name a few...
Wasn't trying to be partisan. There are GOP ones as well, but kind of irrelevant.
How long will it be until people I haven't spoken to in years are calling me about a "great money making opportunity' and asking me to come to coffee 'just to chat about it?'
I smell a green MLM in the wind.
Smells a little like soap, phone cards, and prepaid legal
but with a sanctimonious finish.
Basel II - 'but kind of irrelevant' - then why bring it up?
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) writes:
Change your ways, O-. Step away from the precipice.
Not sure why, but this reminds me of a gift we bought for my mother-in-law. It's a cookie jar in the shape of a uniformed police officer. When the lid is removed, a recorded voice repeatedly says, "Stop and move away from the cookie jar."
Wow normally when there is no new comment for more than 2 min, I assume there is a new thread up. I guess everyone is just taking off for the weekend already
EBGuy, does that collateral chart in effect for the foreign currency swaps as well, ya think?
can't decipher if it does or not...
"No. It makes hard assets, real essential things, basic commodities, land, metals, food etc. more attractive relative to all currencies.
rich"
Yes, thanks, rich. You are 100% correct. But, since currencies will fall relative to hard assets, should I only keep $1000 in the bank at a time and use bags of rice for payment when I travel abroad?
Without judging regulation and socialism I still think it's interesting that countries that have more of what people are proposing as the solution to our problem are actually seeing worse problems (assuming that observation is actually correct).
...To me that suggests something is wrong at a far deeper level.
ac, I've been pondering the same especially in light of continental Europe's disdain of the "Anglo-American" economic model. So why didn't their inherent suspicion of Anglo-American anything preclude them from leveraging up? I don't know, wish I had more insight.
Best,
popeye writes:
If PEBO simply undid the 8 year president for executive branch secrecy on every single detail - when he takes office - I'd take it as a major step forward.
Yeah, right after PEBO releases his college transcripts and medical records... and JF'n Kerry releases his discharge papers.
We'll get back to you.
we're still a little ways away from seriously questioning the AAA rating of our sovereign debt
Are you sure?
This....
"The Strange Case of Falling International Reserves" by Hugo Salinas Price. FSO Editorial 11/06/2008
combined with this...
Global creditors end U.S. spending spree - Washington Times
gives me pause. Looks like either there's a creditor conspiracy to shut off our credit cards or the derivatives crash caused in instant, global systemic failure.
giacutter,
politics of the state = policies of the state
policies of the state = political economy
or don't they teach good old fashioned political economy in schools anymore?
Lord Blankenfeld - you may kiss my Harvard ass
"ac, I've been pondering the same especially in light of continental Europe's disdain of the "Anglo-American" economic model. So why didn't their inherent suspicion of Anglo-American anything preclude them from leveraging up? I don't know, wish I had more insight."
Greed is a basic human quality. Socialism or Communism just covers it up, but it's still there trying to find a way out.
001,
Is it not pronounced Hah-vahd?
As a stockholder in all these banks, I don't want you nosey plebeians ending a good thing.
What's a republic?
"Lawyers, or at least JDs."
I don't know, I'm rather found of Jack Daniels once in awile. He's a JD. I also like Joe Dimaggio, juggling darts, and jalapeno donuts.
re: O Babylon
that's hot CSC. you should record that Linton Kwesi Johnson style...
YouTube - Linton Kwesi Johnson - It Dread Inna Inglan
I just think we should give Obama a BABBABOOEY BABBABOOEY BABBABOOEY!
Okay, all better.
Are we still haggling over the election?
Medical records?
I'm still pissed off about President Pierce. The Kansas-Nebraska act was mishandled completely. And you never hear any Democrats talk about it anymore. Cowards.
"I just think we should give Obama a BABBABOOEY BABBABOOEY BABBABOOEY!"
Atleast you're not giving Obama a BOOYAAH. Now that one really grates on my nerves.
I miss my daily phone calls from John McCain.
Wow tinman. I never heard of this dude before.
Sweet find.
Elvis: "But, since currencies will fall relative to hard assets, should I only keep $1000 in the bank at a time and use bags of rice for payment when I travel abroad?"
I use Cinnabons myself, pick them up at the airport, works everywhere!
EB writes:
"The level of invective and drivel all over the net from the Republicans is a wonder to behold. Obama has been president elect for under a week and they're already jumping all over every syllable he utters."
I hate to say it but "Turnabout is fair play". Ain't payback a bitch?
Now it's the Republicans turn to screw everuthing up and see that nothing constructive gets done!
Let's talk policies, not politics
The E. F. Schumacher Society • Buddhist Economics
"this is standing the truth on its head by considering goods as more important than people and consumption as more important than creative activity"
"production from local resources for local needs is the most rational way of economic life, while dependence on imports from afar and the consequent need to produce for export to unknown and distant peoples is highly uneconomic and justifiable only in exceptional cases and on a small scale. Just as the modern economist would admit that a high rate of consumption of transport services between a manÂ’s home and his place of work signifies a misfortune and not a high standard of life, so the Buddhist would hold that to satisfy human wants from faraway sources rather than from sources nearby signifies failure rather than success"
Kinky girlfriend wants my body for the next three days, starting in... three hours. No pool this weekend!
I think this last election showed that America doesn't want a VP they'd like to bang. They want a lying plagiarist with a terribly thorough dentist, instead.
OT, sorry, but, CSC, how is the movie Superbad?
Why didn't the WSJ or NY Times sue, too?
Well some folks have no more purpose to their lives now that Obama has been elected president:
YouTube - Obama Win Causes Obsessed Backers To See How Empty Lives Are
New thread, y'everybody.
I never saw Superbad.
Super Troopers was awesome.
Super High Me was weak.
Waking Life is a nice film indeed.
perhaps we can also file a freedom of info act to figure out how the US strategic petroleum reserve will get paid back for oil 'lent out' post Hurricane Ike. Not a bad deal for oil companies borrowing from the SPR and paying back with lower cost oil.
"I never saw Superbad."
Not not the sophisticated, man-of-the-world, I took you for. If it weren't Friday, I'd recommend banishing you...
Now it's the Republicans turn to screw everuthing up and see that nothing constructive gets done!
Bad Dawg Bobby | 11.07.08 - 6:04 pm | #
Now??? WTF do you think Republicans have been doing for the last 8 years?
. . . for the last 16 years?
. . . for the last 24 years?
. . . for the last 143 years?
Elvis writes:
OT, sorry, but, CSC, how is the movie Superbad?
Incidentally, CSC, you can't afford to have me in your little sequel.
"Obama has been president elect for under a week and they're already jumping all over every syllable he utters."
"This is gonna be an ugly first year."
Oh come on now...it's not like everyone is muttering "He's not MY president", or "I'm moving to Europe over this".
Dudes I hardly watch movies and never TV. Unless someone directly tells me about a movie, chances are I wont see it.
Unless it is an asian girl dancing on YouTube. I've seen almost all of those.
Everyone who didn't vote for "O" will be able to say with a clear conscience, "You can't blame ME! It's not MY fault!"
001
Then, allow me to say, it is my fault.
popeye - I will also share in the blame
p.s. - I've been on the wrong side of history before. I didn't want to tell my grandchildren I was on the wrong side this time.
At least two Euro countries issued paper this week. Ireland in 3 years at punitive 25 over swaps, or about a 120 bp over Germany.
And Finland in 4 years at 36 bp over Germany.
Different countries are in different situations. But none would be better without Euro. Even Iceland and England now would like to join in, of course they cannot be accepted in their current state.
Anyone know what happened to SRS (2x short Real Estate) @3:50 today?
Down 7% in 10 minutes!
fallonPDX writes:
politics of the state = policies of the state
policies of the state = political economy
or don't they teach good old fashioned political economy in schools anymore?
Thanks for the insight, Captain Obvious.
Please don't let me take away from valuable discussion like:
Bush sucks!
Obama sucks!
Uh-huh, nuh-uh!
No, YOU'RE the racist poopey-head hater! No, YOU are!
Please, by all means, carry on if that's what you came here for.
Colorful news commentary hour:
* Stocks Rally to End Week After Two Days of Heavy Selling- AP
The insanity continues.
* Obama says hard work needed on economic crisis- AP
Hot potato!
* Greenspan: US GDP to decline significantly- AP
Seriously?
* GM reports $2.5B 3Q loss, says running out of cash- AP
Boo hoo. Didn't anyone explain outsourcing to GM?
* Pending home sales fell 4.6 percent in September- AP
Fire sale.
* Ford announces $129M 3Q loss, burns $7.7B in cash- AP
What's the matter, they can't make cars cheap enough in Mexico even?
* Crude steady after 2 days of sharp drops- AP
Thanks to our "friends" in the Middle East.
* Job Losses Mount: Will Govt. Response Turn America Into a 'Nanny State'?- Tech Ticker
You betcha with Big-O running the show.
* Wall St. Bonuses Plummeting -- to Merely 'Astronomical' Levels- Tech Ticker
All thanks to the bailout.
Drake writes:
At least two Euro countries issued paper this week. Ireland in 3 years at punitive 25 over swaps, or about a 120 bp over Germany.
And Finland in 4 years at 36 bp over Germany.
Amt and purchasers available on the web anywhere? I lese Kraut so I'm cool with that. I'm interested given the fails in the euro-gov paper mkt.
I'd rather move to a tested socialist country than watch the US Government fuck it up like everything else.
"picosec writes:
Anyone know what happened to SRS (2x short Real Estate) @3:50 today?"
The oversupply of CRE and housing decreased by 3.5% at 3:50PM. Or maybe it was just 3:50PM, but somebody thought they read that the oversupply of CRE and housing decreased by 3.5%, so SRS fell 7.0%.
DK - dont't let the screen door hit you on the ass on the way out
"O Babylon
A wasteland of plastic, metal and dreams
How we loved your architecture
It was our only true relationship - we thought
Glorious......:
The whole thing is delirious, but I like it.
Dirk van Dijk writes:
Various stuff. Man, you've got the gloves off on US debt tonight. Go Dirk.
What are the odds that this is the tip of the iceberg. I cant wait for the stories about real estate in the Baltics and the Russian mafia.
By Christian Gutlederer
VIENNA, Nov 4 (Reuters) - The mystery surrounding the whereabouts of 520 million euros ($663 million) that troubled Austrian property developer Immoeast (IMEA.VI: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) says has gone missing continued on Tuesday when a company which was alleged to owe the money through a bond sale said it knew nothing about it.
Immofinanz Beteiligungs AG (IBAG) said in a statement that its board knew nothing about the bond which Immoeast said it had bought from IBAG and which it had expected to be in part repaid last month.
"(IBAG's) boards have not assisted in the alleged transactions, in particular in issuing a bond allegedly bought by Immoeast, and therefore did not know about it," it said.
"For us, those transactions have not happened and are non-existent," IBAG said.
001 +1
Thank you. I'll be here all night. Tip your waitress.
"I don't know I have mixed feelings on the issue but saving it to save the UAW and the pensions of its retirees has NO merit but that is what will animate the political leadership."
Save the Street but not the people who work on the line? Why?
Pragmatically as well as morally, if you throw 2 1/2 million people out of work you're asking for more trouble than any of us can even imagine.
Yeah Dawg, WTF is up with bashing the guy who hasn't even taken office yet?
I didn't see many people of color in PEOB's entourage this afternoon.
What's a republic?
Durring the deflation/deleveraging part of this the T-note bubble might continue to expand, but eventually T-notes and bonds will come to be known by their old name "Certificates of Confiscation
And thanks to the central bank manipulation and the "shadow" banking system its anyones fucking guess when the deleveraging is over.
"crispy&cole writes:
What if they find out the Fed is really broke and they expose this whole ponzi scheme?? Be careful what we ask for..."
You're saying we can't handle the truth? Or that the markets will react badly to it?
Just wait until this gets denied on some national security or trade secret excuse. Markets are not fond of uncertainty.
I see this as a put up or shut up moment. Either we can finally get a good idea how bad the CDS mess is, or Dow 5000.
Pavel - anybody who has 'mixed feelings' on the union issue has obviously never worked on 'the line'. Don't waste your breath on 'em.
Different countries are in different situations. But none would be better without Euro. Even Iceland and England now would like to join in, of course they cannot be accepted in their current state.
That is the key point most in the U.S. do not understand. The Eurozone might actually emerge much stronger than before because of this crisis.
Transparency is for pussies.
Faith is the new Logic.
...we can finally get a good idea how bad the CDS mess is, or Dow 5000.
You are using the wrong boolean operator in that statement.
"I'm still pissed off about President Pierce. "
I knew someone who was a descendant of Pierce, known in his day as Handsome Frank, also The Falling General because when he was drunk (she told me) he would hoist himself up on one side of his horse, and slide off on the other side.
"Save the Street but not the people who work on the line? Why?"
I'd be more aligned with a, "save the jobs, not the union," kind of scenario. Part of what is killing the big 3 is the inflexibility of the union contracts.
Unfortunately, from my perspective it is the union that is the big contributor to the (D)'s.
Going through a transit strike here is Austin this week, that is not making me a big fan of collective bargaining. Seems that more often than not, unions strike to get the best possible bargain for the workers when that may not be the best strategy in the long term. i.e. City or company going into BK or default may bite you in the ass.
We have 2 1/2 months before PEBO takes office. The man is smart and has gathered other recognizably smart folks around him. There is reason for hope. There is also reason for fear. Perhaps too much reason.
I have listened with interest to the debate on this thread between the inflationists and the deflationists. I'm not "entirely" sure who wins that argument, but it's certainly not clear. To my ears the loudest sounds remains 30:1 leverage.
To understand where we are, all I need do is consider how much buying power that gave the shadow banking system, to look at the "damage" that has been done with the information we have been allowed thus far, and to understand that hope does not overcome gravity.
"You are using the wrong boolean operator in that statement."
Hah! Fair enough.
"Pavel - anybody who has 'mixed feelings' on the union issue has obviously never worked on 'the line'. Don't waste your breath on 'em."
Someone I knew who worked on the Ford line in Mahwah NJ told me that it breaks bodies, and that people who do that kind of work tend to die young. Repetitive strain.
A relative of my wife worked as a fork lift operator for Chrysler for many years, God bless his soul. He died of cancer.
Hoopajoops LTD writes:
The fed is giving out currency in exchange for collateral which it is then using to back the currency....
holy cow , americans don`t even know how their dollar is backed.
From your United States Department of Treasury :
(US Department of the Treasury
"Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. ... The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy."
Did you see: ... receive no backing by anything...
geezzz, americans
" 001 writes:
p.s. - I've been on the wrong side of history before. I didn't want to tell my grandchildren I was on the wrong side this time.
001 | 11.07.08 - 6:24 pm | # "
My convictions told me that I should vote Barr as he was the only guy, besides write-in, that I had as an option that did not vote for the bailout. But I went PEBO for the very same reason.
"This is gonna be an ugly first year."
Yeah, especially since the Republicans were so friendly towards Clinton and Carter.
Pavel - Union work kills, pure and simple. I'm talking about hard core labor. Whatever they get, they fought for, and they deserve. Anti-unionists don't have a clue. Workers of the world, unite!
Well, it's said there's a court of law, and a court of public opinion. I think Bloomberg already won in one. Stonewalling from the Fed, even if legally supported, won't help their cause, but that's what it will be.
Union work kills.
Non-union work kills.
Funny enough, according to my research the fatality rate of mankind is 100%.
Not a single signer of the Declaration of Independence is alive today. Must've been poison in that ink or something....
And when revealed, the collateral is a chihauhau and two dead squirrels.
"Union work kills.
Non-union work kills.
Funny enough, according to my research the fatality rate of mankind is 100%."
You don't think that lifting and fitting 61 car doors an hour into 61 frames, for years, would do you any harm?
It looks like the bond vigilantes have left their lair...
Zombie Kung Fu Panda
Wow... yes they have. 3 more nations to to corner. Yet everyone is so scared we can still sell T-bills. For how long? (I think summer. Early or late to be decided later.) Oh... I laugh at Spain's bonds being AAA rated! ROTFLMAO. Sorry... but they're toast.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20080318/Cartoon20080318.gif
Can we as individuals petition for information uner the Freedom of Information Act ?
If so, Amongst the bloggers, can we create a list of information we need, and therefore petition for it... ?
Isn't a lack of transparency what got us into this mess in the first place?
Hoopajoops LTD writes:
Throw back the curtain, tear off the veil, out out tumble... THE HOOPAJOOPS
The fed is giving out currency in exchange for collateral which it is then using to back the currency which is paid out to the banks in exchange for collateral which is... ALL HOOPAJOOPS
It's hoopajoops all the way down!
I'm still laughing at that and I think I woke up my kid.
As an aside, I started going through "Traders, Guns, and Money" by Sanjayit Das and it's a brilliant read. He's a well-published derivatives specialist, and most of his books are boring as hell, but this one is written like sitting in the bar listening to fascinating stories until the wee hours of the night. I highly recommend it as an accessible insiders look into how the derivatives market developed, the many shady deals that comprised it, and the bizarre inner workings of Wall Street.
/end book advertisement.
Werner writes:
Hoopajoops LTD writes:
The fed is giving out currency in exchange for collateral which it is then using to back the currency....
holy cow , americans don`t even know how their dollar is backed.
From your United States Department of Treasury :
(U.S. Treasury - FAQs: Currency legal-tender.shtml)
"Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. ... The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy."
Did you see: ... receive no backing by anything...
geezzz, americans
The fact that you cannot redeem your notes in return for the feds collateral does not mean that they do not (or at least did not) hold significant assets in support of the US dollar. The feds trillion dollar balance sheet is not a new phenomenon, even if the collateral comprising it is.
sorry for the delay.
3 containers of poopy diapers.
152 cu ft of enron stock certificates.
1.5 tons of wet newspaper.
3 skips of builders rubble.
several suitcases of icelandic bank bonds.
hand scribbled IOUs (not signed).
2300kg of laser discs (with water damage).
4,500 33% discount coupons for zunes.
Comrade noob goldberg writes:
...The fact that you cannot redeem your notes ... does not mean that they do not ... hold significant assets in support of the US dollar.
But the treasury says : "Federal Reserve notes ... receive no backing by anything."
... receive no backing by anything...!!
Unambiguous and official from the Treasury's mouth.
get tha rope joe, theres gunna be a hangin!
i hope it means lower interest rates for people looking to put a floor into home prices-its getting retarded out there-only one can buy are the speculators once again and those with cash-once again joe public misses the boat