third

No surprise here. Just further validation. Agriculture's still doing quite well.

I have yet to witness a company that isn't poorly managed.

when did we stop celebrating creative destruction?

Reality manifests itself

I believe this now calls for a direct cash infusion by the federal government. Intel is too big to fail (in their earnings estimate)!

This means we should get a warning from the following:

MSFT
DELL
MU

Does anyone remember Phar-Mor?

Arrg. kitten parts everywhere. On another note, have we hit the REAL economy yet??? This is shaping up to be a no sector left untouched, good old fashioned American depression. But with 120% more total debt than the last one.
Gotta go duct tape up a kitten.

I think that Intel Chip Fab Plants would make excellent grain silos.

Yeah, it be like beer in the radioactive kegs.

Intel's problem has never been sales, but shareholders expectations for a constant increase in profit.

Nortel is canuck company.. right?

Barley writes:
I'm not sure Nortel has had a profitable quarter in the last five years..anybody know?
Barley | 11.12.08 - 5:35 pm | #

Applied Materials to cut 1,800 jobs; earnings tumble 45%
at MarketWatch(Wed 4:51pm)

Well.. that is the major problem with Nortel

Morocco Bama writes:
Yeah, it's Canuck.
Morocco Bama | 11.12.08 - 5:36 pm | #

I expect High Fructose Corn Syrup to make a strong comeback.

Welcome to The Great Recession.

Good point, Dave. They will never call it a Depression. There can only be one of those.

True, BH. They were literally soliciting people to come have there chest ripped open and their arteries cleared out. Didn't matter if your arteries were clear, so long as you're 55 or older, you're fair game.

fiftieth or so

"Check out AMAT too. They always get hard when Intel has a problem"

Is that why Gaylord Entertainment Co is up 68% AH?

"They always get hard when Intel has a problem."

Wow. Nova's fumble with Bond Girl has been upstaged.

Waiting for the "I always get hard when..." jokes.

"I always get hard when..." I'm long both SPY & SSO and everyone here is BEARISH!

How about cannibal ponies? Population problem solved even after everyone gets one.

Pick yours up at your local Paulson Dollar Store.

Obama's Health Plan will accomplish the same thing McCain's would have. Meaning, Corporations will ultiamtely no longer have to be stuck offering it to the Plebes.

OT---Bill Gates bought 4.7 million shares of CROX prior to Nov 3rd. Looks like he is going to take a 50% haircut tomorrow. NTAP beat the numbers, but not giving guidance.

Server virtualization is a problem for Intel; why buy more hardware when you can generate some huge number of virtual machines from each physical processor. Conservatively, 20 virtual servers per physical processor equals a 95% haircut in demand for physical processors. Agree, disagree?

You see them ALL talking Depression now.

All on the same page. Trying to scare Bush into doing something for the banks again to goose the markets.

No short squeeze possible. Everyone sees a triple bottom with positive divergences everywhere. Last drop on very light volume. No panic. Everyone in buy mode.

Down we go.

The Great Deflation?

That's what I think this should be called.

Let's see...

We have the first Great Depression and this one.

Hmmm...we have to find a way to identify the one from the other.

The Hoover Depression and.

The Bush Depression.

You may quote me.

I think he needs to go down in history properly.

I agree Bob Dobbs, but Obama's plan is not Universal Healthcare, as both the Right and Left have portrayed it. It's McCain's Plan, in disguise.

RE Sovereign default for Iceland:

"Iceland’s banking system is ruined. GDP is down 65% in euro terms. Many companies face bankruptcy; others think of moving abroad. A third of the population is considering emigration. The British and Dutch governments demand compensation, amounting to over 100% of Icelandic GDP, for their citizens who held high-interest deposits in local branches of Icelandic banks. Europe’s leaders urgently need to take step to prevent similar things from happening to small nations with big banking sectors.

Iceland experienced the deepest and most rapid financial crisis recorded in peacetime when its three major banks all collapsed in the same week in October 2008. It is the first developed country to request assistance from the IMF in 30 years.

Following the use of anti-terror laws by the UK authorities against the Icelandic bank Landsbanki and the Icelandic authorities on 7 October, the Icelandic payment system effectively came to a standstill, with extreme difficulties in transferring money between Iceland and abroad. For an economy as dependent on imports and exports as Iceland this has been catastrophic.
While it is now possible to transfer money with some difficulty, the Icelandic currency market is now operating under capital controls while the government seeks funding to re-float the Icelandic krona under the supervision of the IMF. There are still multiple simultaneous exchange rates for the krona.

Negotiations with the IMF have finished, but at the time of writing the IMF has delayed a formal decision. Icelandic authorities claim this is due to pressure from the UK and Netherlands to compensate the citizens who deposited money in British and Dutch branches of the Icelandic bank Icesave. The net losses on those accounts may exceed the Icelandic GDP, and the two governments are demanding that the Icelandic government pay a substantial portion of that. The likely outcome would be sovereign default."

That is the executive summary of a report produced for the govt of Iceland by consultants advising them on possible solutions. Iceland should exit NATO. The weasels in the British govt are worse than Paulson.

Well, then, Obama will be the villain, because it's only just begun. The worst of it will fall on his watch, and beyond. It's his albatross now. Why do you think Rove's so merry?

Obama's totally missing the issue.

Focusing on bailing out the automakers?

Really? Like that's going to stop this ship from sinking.

I guess he needs to payoff his most ardent backers.

Same shi*. Different party.

Universal Healthcare in the U.S. is possible with a reduced military budget. The choice is clear. You can't have your guns, and eat it too.

I am still hoping that it won't be a depression (call me Seb). But because it will be a doozy of a recession, (long and deep and worldwide--but U.S. unemployment levels hopefully not worse than the early 1980's of around 11%--I think "The Great Recession" fits. Of course, I could be wrong.

From the same link:

"Opinion polls in Iceland indicate that one third of the population is considering emigration. Further economic hardship due to Icesave obligations may make that expression of opinion a reality. Meanwhile, many companies are facing bankruptcy and others are contemplating moving their headquarters and operations abroad."

So an entire country could be vaporized by this financial crisis...an economic neutron bomb.

Altair writes:
We need a corporate sponsor for the new depression, e.g. "The Greater Depression Brought to You By Carls, Jr." At least makes some extra money where we can.
Altair | 11.12.08 - 5:33 pm | #

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!

I seriously love this idea. Might as welllaugh when the whole world is falling apart.

However, I think we can do better than Carl's Jr.

How about something like the...

G.D. II brought to you by the NAR or
Bear Stearns or Hank and Ben.

"Unit472 writes:
I presume Obama's healthcare plan cost of $75 billion is per year and if there is anything that ends up costing more than anticipated it is healthcare. "

And the Bush Bailout at over $2 Trillion and counting. How many $75B years of health care is that so far? It ain't over yet by a long shot. This Bush Depression is going to cost us dearly.

Someone shat on the picnic table and walked away without cleaning it up. Now how do we use it? Do we have a right to complain about the prior users? Hmmmm?

More news from the SV, Applied Materials also announced a profit shortfall and 12% layoffs.

So an entire country could be vaporized by this financial crisis...an economic neutron bomb.

Friedman just came in his grave.

Its gonna be mighty interesting for NATO when Iceland becomes a gigantic Russian Air/Naval base and all those little SOSUS mikes go off-network.

briwerk writes:
OCDan: Sounds like you need to watch Idiocracy. (Brought to you by Carl's Jr.)
briwerk | Homepage | 11.12.08 - 6:16 pm | #

You mean, Buttfuckers!!!!!

That one gets me all the time. Very funny movie.

It's not about bad news. It's about general sentiment.

At this point, I guess the real question is...

When does the market finally give way and the circuit breakers kick in on a say a -2000 day?

This incremental step crap has gone on long enough.

BTW, all these cheerleaders need to realize that if it wasn't for all this bailout money , we'd already be at 12% unemployment, DOW 4,000, SP 350, and Nasdaq 750.

What boobs keeping this rickety old go-cart economy going.

And to think, despite all this news, my LL raised the rent a shade north of 5%.

He is smoking some serious stuff.

e-mailed and said we would be leaving for greener, I mean cheaper pastures.

Found a place that os $285 cheaper than current rent and $385 cheaper than new rent he wants.

This guy is going down with the rest of the empty rentals here in South OC.

These wanna-be Trumps are going to learn what BK feels like a la Trump.

Those numbers are monthly, btw!

Unit472 writes:
Either Bush is a 'moron' in which case he would not have been clever enough to have caused such widespread economic havoc or his is a deranged genius who intentionally did. Now which is it Pothead?

Does it really matter? He is a Son Of A Bitch in either case, as far as I'm concerned.

That wasn't me dude.
Reread the moniker.

That wasn't me dude.

It may as well have been.

6:15 p.m.
CORRECT: Liberty's QVC to cut about 700 jobs

OCDan writes:
And to think, despite all this news, my LL raised the rent a shade north of 5%.

He is smoking some serious stuff.

e-mailed and said we would be leaving for greener, I mean cheaper pastures.

Found a place that os $285 cheaper than current rent and $385 cheaper than new rent he wants.

This guy is going down with the rest of the empty rentals here in South OC.

There are 2 condos in my small development that have had For Lease signs out for 4-6 months now.

It amazes me how people will sacrifice months of revenue, just to make a few extra bucks per month.

??? OK. Did you fight in Korea?

Nope, I despise an established military.

OK. Got the first one fed. To the kids, that is.

Unit472 writes:
"Personally I wouldn't care if every fool who thought they could buy a $500,000 house on a $50,000 income with virtually no downpayment ends up homeless.

Look at the damage they have done!"

Where to start with this? Ever heard of liar loans? Neg-ams? CDO's? CDS's? Google Mr. Mortgage and read his site for an hour so you can begin to make some rational statements about this subject.

OK, gotta run. I hear another solicitor at the door.

Picnic table cleaner elect.

Comrade,

We had a lady like that in our complex.

Six months ago she puts the 2-bed out at a whopping 1850/month.

No takers after 6 weeks. Rent sign down.

A month ago rent sign reappears with 1700/month on it.

These ding dongs will chase the market to the proverbial bottom.

Here's the rub, though. Was talking to one LL and he said everyone in the area is underwater. They have either taken money out to upgrade or they bought within the last 3-4 years.

He said he was upside down 100K on his 3 bed unit. If that was me I woodda just put the bullet in my head. He is renting this thing. At least if it is the primary residence, you have a roof, albeit a costly one.

Universal health care run by the Govt.

Every trip to the doctor like a trip to the DMV. With longer lines.

But they've done such a good job with the economy, why not let them try healthcare?

Meant to say, he is renting the unit out!

OUCH!!!!!!!!

rcc writes:
Universal health care run by the Govt.

Every trip to the doctor like a trip to the DMV. With longer lines.

Well, look at it this way, the more of us who die, the less strain on the necessities of life. Lower demand, means lower prices for the living.

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I read Mr. Mortgage, Dr. Housing Bubble and Patrick too. What none of them have ever claimed or even suggested is that some poor fool, minding his own business was, somehow, spirited into a bank, mortgage company, or real estate brokers office and, with a gun to their head, told to sign a loan.

We can't have a functioning society if people are not responsible for their own folly. Salesman will sell you whatever you can pay for. They don't care if you can't afford it. That's not their job. That is the buyers job.

Save 100s or even 1000s by not paying back all your credit companies-
we can consolodate and legally have you pay thousands less
a>Orange County Credit Repair

How quaint. 100s in CC debt. Yeah right. Anyone see the latest figures for those who carry a balance? The average is more than 7500.

Yeah, reduce my $124,567 CC balance by $475 bucks. What a difference maker!

Comrade,

Good on you for picking up something for less than 100K!

We will get there again. Give it another year or so. When unemployment hits 12% and the DOW gets to 5K, people will really panic.

Swimming without a suit as the tide goes out: Immelt, Buffett, Otellini.

OCDan,

And it was on an ad to take over a $720 a month lease in Irvine that reeked of panic.

rcc writes:
Universal health care run by the Gov't. Every trip to the doctor like a trip to the DMV. With longer lines.

And STILL no one can speak Canuck. You would think that no one heard of googling any info. It is just better to stay uneducated and spew what you heard on Hannity or Rush. Is this an amazing way to live or what? One language, one myopic viewpoint on health care and both grown up just across the border from an entire country with health care for everyone that needs it WITH NO LINES AT THE DOCTORS OFFICE.

Is this a great country or what?

Referring to prior post, if US rating drops, who does that leave? Is it conceivable that any entity will be able to preserve a higher rating for long? How would this play out? Seems more like the "falling tide grounding all boats".

Moore's corollary that credit increases 40% every 18 months is now being termed Moore's Instability.

Wholesale gasoline closed @ <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/commodities/energyprices.html>$1.24!!

Teach your children the value of mob rule:

Angry Mob Play Set - Archie McPhee & Co.

Currently Growing Cannibals writes:

Thanks but I don't mind waiting for elective or non-urgent care. Now if Fraser had only parted out the emergency care times we could have us a real, meaningful study and discussion. Then there is the huge cost difference between the two countries for the same procedures. What's up with that?

A note of caution when you get a study that conflicts so profoundly with all others is finding out who paid for it. Wikipedia is not known for having completely unbiased reports submitted.
Currently Growing Cannibals

Just responding to your blast that there is nothing out there that says there are wait times in Canada.

Feel free to shift the topic a bit.

Feel free to shift the topic a bit.
rcc

OK, where do you see it going?

Back to cannibal children? That's a bit tiring considering the work involved.

Nemo writes:
AMAT cutting 1800 jobs.

'tis but a flesh wound.

AMAT says: "Look for me tomorrow, and I will be a grave man . . ."

CSC did you se the B-Movie Victims?

Horrified B-Movie Victims - Archie McPhee & Co.

What if Paulson looting is directed by Bush in order to incite riots before Jan 20 and give Bush an excuse for Martial Law followed by de facto dictatorship? If you have any brains you will hope for it, because your only chance is if something so drastic happens that a revolution becomes inevitable. Otherwise USA will wallow in same shit for decades to come.

<a href="http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yenislandreversalgaprevik6.png>Gee. . . do you think THIS will move the market?

"Best of all, it cost nothing!"

Uhm...WRONG!

"Function writes:
What if Paulson looting is directed by Bush in order to incite riots before Jan 20 and give Bush an excuse for Martial Law followed by de facto dictatorship? If you have any brains you will hope for it, because your only chance is if something so drastic happens that a revolution becomes inevitable. Otherwise USA will wallow in same shit for decades to come."

Which handle do you use when you post on tickerforum.org?

@Pissed Off In California

Never been there but I'll check it out.

Most people did not overextend themselves financially. They bought a house they could afford even if they may have wanted a nicer one. They bought the car they could afford even if they wanted a nicer one. They used their credit cards responsibly even if they have 'unmeet needs'.

Were they somehow not exposed to the siren's song of temptation? Did no real estate agents tell them they could buy the McMansion of their dreams. When they shopped for a car did the dealer conceal the expensive
luxury models from their eyes so as to not tempt them?

No, the idea that someone can 'push' you into a house you cannot afford is ridiculous.

Look what Cramer said about Paulson in 2006.. It was like he was predicting the future..

Nothing found for 2008 10 Cramer-from-2006-in-paulson-we-trust

HMOs are for poor people...that shouldn't include anyone here.

"The average Canadian family pays about 48 percent of its income in taxes each year, partly to fund the health care system. Rates vary from province to province, but Ontario, the most populous, spends roughly 40 percent of every tax dollar on health care, according to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation."

I have no idea where they came up with that number. Perhaps if you add income, sales, property, gasoline, and every other kind of hidden tax. Same as in the US of A.

Unit472

I'm with you. There is a limit to what the prudent and self reliant can stomach, no matter what their socio political beliefs.

Consider how much more healthcare would be available if we didn't have thousands of young hoodlums shooting each other every year. Every watch that TV show Code Blue and see the scum that is brought into our intensive care units to suck hundreds of thousands of dollars from the taxpayers to keep their worthless bodies alive?

And the dopers. Yeah, they add so much to our society with their needles
and diseases. So much that every other person's medical costs are inflated to pay for the punk gangbanger who has been shot 4 times or the druggie who is back in intensive care for his latest health crisis.

Jas?

Time to become a bank-holding company.

Unit472, what about the obese, McDonald's eating lard asses with Type II Diabetes. If we have a Universal Healthcare system, obese people should be disqualified from coverage. It's the same as smoking.

NAVSPECWARCOM,

With insurance that bill would have been $2-4K.

I know i've been there 2xs

I liked Service Merchandise...come to think of it, I liked Phar-Mor, too.

How many scientists and engineers will lose their jobs

Great, an army of Unabombers. that wouldn't be Una anymore, though, would it?

Concerning health care, maybe a ration book issued to each citizen. Something like the old Disney coupon ride book, for something like $5.00. iirc, more tickets in the book than could be used up in a day. A rides, B rides and C rides. Of course the longest rides were the A rides.

Sorry, lost in the moment.

Nah dude.
E ticket.
Those were the shiznit.

Your right, it been so long ago, I had forgotten.
Anaheim 1962

Who could forget E tickets?

It was slang for "a good thing" for years.

Something tells me Unit472 is an obese smoker.

I subsidize those fat fucks with my premiums, Unit472. Without their excessive costs, my premiums would be lower. The insurance industry is socialized in that I'm subsidizing other's bad health habits with my premium dollars. Why not remove the insurance company and do the same thing with my taxes? No more bloated salaries and bonuses for greedy fat cat insurance executives.

Umm, folks, super sized straw man going on here about gov't run HC, nobody has proposed that. The closeset we have is government insurance (single payer, medicare for all). Even with that, the only Dem to run on it this year was Dennis K It is not the same thing. The Dr's would still be independent contractors, hospitals would be pvt.

"Who is going to rate those AAA securitized car loans, credit card bills and student loans? One thing that has been lost is the banker evaluating the customer's credit worthiness. Old school bankers would consider things like ability to pay, etc, and take a risk knowing that his/her own firm could get in trouble if it didn't work out. But with securitization, they're just in it for the fee they earn, then it's sold to someone else. When will "financial engineering" be discredited? It certainly isn't engineering; if it were there would be a discipline known as "financial science.""

Why do you think nobody but the FED will buy any securitized assets now? If I was a foreign purchaser of treasuries I'd be thinking VERY carefully about what this says about AAA treasuries right about now.

Unit472, yes, I would consider it equivalent. In fact, worse.