GE, Shares Plunging, Repeats Intention to Maintain Dividend
Nov. 13 (Bloomberg) -- General Electric Co., buffeted this year in a global credit crisis, repeated its Sept. 25 intention to keep its dividend level as shares fell below $15 in New York trading for the first time since 1996.
The bigger issue with CP is the outstanding stats IMNSHO - when the Fed jumped in they kicked up by $100 B, then the next week up by $50 B, then last week (released today) up by $2.9 B...
At least five Republican members of Congress yesterday called for the Fed to disclose which financial institutions are borrowing taxpayer money and what troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral. More than 300 more investors and taxpayers also pressed for more disclosure in e-mails and interviews with Bloomberg News.
Calculated Risk: You keep on writing that you would like to see Fed effective funds rate near the target. The effective rate is nearby 0.20 - 0.30%. Federal funds futures price in likely target rate of 0.50% (50% probability) and 0.25%, or 0.75% target rate (with 20% probability) in December. Don't you think that they are simply doing stealth easining and we will at no point see effective rate near the target, which really isn't the target they try to hit?
The Fed is buying higher quality commercial paper (CP) and this is pushing down the yield on this paper (0.65% yesterday!) - and increasing the spread between AA and A2/P2 CP.
Brilliant observation. Federal "participation" is crowding out segments of the lending market.
"Council President Pro Tem JoAnn Watson sponsored the resolution to use the money for public service employment, to fund mass transit plans and to place a moratorium on home foreclosures for two years."
Sometimes I think my home city of San Diego is screwed, then I just remember that somehow Detroit still exists.
The financial system is insolvent under current accounting rules. More an more people are realizing this.
Take GS. They doubled their asset book over the past 4 years. All with borrowed money and big leverage. What assets could they have bought that aren't under water? None. And no way can you hedge 1 trillion in assets. Hence the AIG bailout.
"Brilliant observation. Federal "participation" is crowding out segments of the lending market."
Bingo, California Asset Fund (vehicle for many CA agencies) has gone to 60% GSE debt and sucked oxygen out of short term corporates. Is Bond Girl around today?
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this concerning the Big Three saga is that there is a sub rosa struggle between red and blue states.
Obviously, Michigan is blue state with lots of Obama connections. On the other hand, the red states have lots of non-unionized foreign auto manufacturers (MB, BMW, Toyota, etc.). It's going to be interesting because Alabama (w/ lots of MB influence) seats two of the ranking members on the House and Senate Finance Committees, Rep. Bachus and Sen. Shelby, respectively.
Talk about a political and economic minefield for Obama.
I'm with JP. Everybody thinks now is the time to buy (insert asset class here). Capitulation comes when everybody is bloody and broken, and investing in a (insert asset class here) is the last thing on people's minds.
What would you base the yearly rent increases to make up for possible currency devaluation?
REBear
I'd get a futures contract. I agree to to pay you X rupies yearly over the next few years and you give me Y dollars (dont know why'd you want them tho;))
Of course should your rents not materialize you still owe someone those rupies.... (You'd owe the lender and now some IB, ouch!)
It was the nature of the blabbering. He threw the banks to the lions by opening the TARP wider, and his ability to save the rest of the equity universe is fantasy.
Listen to the questions on the Shumer phone call that followed. Pretty devastating.
I thought that the Fed paying interest on bank reserves was supposed to solve the problem of the Fed funds rate being below target. (I don't understand how, do you?) Does this mean that the Fed is deliberately keeping rates below target? If so, why have a target rate in the first place?
Simons: Even with TARP going into equity we need to do something with the paper - push it into auction. Need to get it out of weak hands at a discount so deals can be made.
safe_as_apartments writes:
I'm with JP. Everybody thinks now is the time to buy (insert asset class here). Capitulation comes when everybody is bloody and broken, and investing in a (insert asset class here) is the last thing on people's minds.
Methinks so too. There's still a lot of people out there who still don't think its raining out.
Calculated Risk writes:
MoT, how can they maintain the dividend and go to the government with hat in hand? Geesh ...
I can hear the conversation in my head. Admit it, you are jealous that the little voices choose to talk only to me.
"The dividend props up the price and keeps us in covenant for many many government retirement programs. You don't want mandatory CalPERS CalSTRS, etc. forced divestments now do you? Thus we keep the dividend for your own good. Now where's my check? The jet is idling on the runway and the Caymans banks close in a few hours."
C and SBUX in a race to the bottom.....
Never thought they would be trading at same level. Oh well can't get it all right.....shoulda loaded back up on those C puts.
If you are moved voice an opinion against the GM Bailout...
GM is mounting a campaign to save itself after years of self-neglect. Even Thomas Friedman of the New York Times thinks protecting the current company and management is a bad idea.
GM has set up a number to have your voice heard. Granted they want you to call and profess support but you can also call this number to say NO! to bailing out inefficent companies that have had ample time to fix it themselves (35 years since this problem happened once before).
Simply call 1-866-927-2233, enter your zip code and you will be able to connect with your representatives (Senate and House). When you are connected say:
I DO NOT support any bailout of General Motors (or Ford or Chrysler) and feel that, in the long run, the country will be better positioned if the current companies are left to make the hard-choices that will make them competitive in the future.
My main issue is with kicking myself for shedding so many of my put positions yesterday. I'm down to only half a dozen SPY NOV 87s from more than 30. The lone EEV NOV 100 call still in my account is getting greener by leaps and bounds, though. Yummy.
These are nice summaries, but they don't mean much if the improvements are based on borrowed money backed by collateral assets that cannot (or will not) be valued.
EEV turned positive. Gift that keeps giving. Thanks Rich!
These ETFs that track foreign markets are lagging way behind the domestic ones. SRS and SKF are probably breaking new highs today while EEV, FXP, etc are still far behind.
I didnt buy a house, and yet, where I want to buy, prices are still far out of whack with incomes. And those who did, lucky them, bailouts.
I didnt get a tax rebate stimulus check. But I paid for those others got.
I have no debt, so I'll get no relief when many total f-ups get a handout when they cant pay their cc bills.
I just saw all the prices of things I buy skyrocket - and even with gas prices falling, they are still higher than theyve been for my entire life, save for a few months.
Basically, by doing the right thing, our mismanaged economic masters have said, screw you. And now that they are taking the economy apart piece by piece, and looting what they can on the way down.
So on top of all the craptastic stuff above, Im now seeing my clients go down the sinkhole. Which means now my business has to suffer too.
So no, I dont feel bad about enjoying the stock market sinking, because when Im in, im short, and that's about the only way I can get ahead now. Which, honestly, makes me sick.
We'll need another 850 point drop in the DJI in the next 90 minutes to get one today. 1100 point drop is the requirement this quarter for any kind of temporary stoppage. 2200 for a "closed for the day" trip.
REBear are you sure you're technically trying to keep the gains in the local currency? It sounds like you're worried about your buying power here in the US? India uses a lot of gold! That might be your best bet. Then again their property transactions cost so much (15%-25% of sale price to the gov) that titles aren't worth a sh*t....
JP writes:
7 handled triggered a bunch of buys. We'll see if it stops the tsunami.
Nope, bounce maybe, hold nope, fundamental still suck, and getting worse by the day.
NEW YORK, Nov 13 (Reuters) - The price of 30-year U.S. Treasury bonds extended losses on Thursday after news of poor demand for a $10 billion reopening of a 30-year bond issue.
according to NPR already half of $700B is gone and for what good to Americans ?
I'm surprised people are not storming the White House and Congress alike dragging these thieves out for giving carte blanche to Paulson and this RICO administration.
Anonymous writes:
NEW YORK, Nov 13 (Reuters) - The price of 30-year U.S. Treasury bonds extended losses on Thursday after news of poor demand for a $10 billion reopening of a 30-year bond issue.
13:13 ET 10-Yr: -03+/32..3.741%.. USD/JPY: 95.3500.. EUR/USD: 1.2470
Clocked: Heading into the reopened auction results trade was seeing the long end take a hit with the "when issued" running 4.225%. The market was expecting a decent showing as there remains an interest, albeit cautious, in duration. But the issue saw a 4.310% draw with a so-so 2.07 bid-to-cover, versus 2.40 in Aug and 2.69 in May, and a measly 18.2% in indirect bidders, seeing lessened interest from foreign central banks. The long end got clocked on the results, adding drag to the shorter maturities with the 30-yr hitting last week's lower levels, going to 4.21% yield to a 4.3%. The 10-yr got hit to take yields to 3.77% from 3.7%
Which is a sad commentary on the diminishing quality of the posts here, I'm afraid.
Sebastian
No Seb, this is c0nfirmation of numerous models that ultimately proved correct. Remember when you vainly held onto NBER proclamations as a legitimate defense of your positions? That this crew remembers and learns from the past is a compliment to the quality of comments.
Shays may be drunk.
Shays to Soros: "should the manager be required to invest in each of his hedge funds equally, to avoid conflicts of interest?"
Soros: "That is why I have only one fund."
Shays: "And has that fund outperformed your other funds?"
Soros: "I have only one fund"
Shays to next manager: "You're mumbling."
From the last thread: What is scary is that the dow is off more than 41% from it all-time high of 14,160.
I want my DOW 14,164 back!
NEW YORK, Nov 13 (Reuters) - The price of 30-year U.S. Treasury bonds extended losses on Thursday after news of poor demand for a $10 billion reopening of a 30-year bond issue.
Bad news.
Anonymous
Two failed T-bill auctions (the other was really short term at crappy rates).
Maybe with everyone having to sell whatever will sell... its trouble. (e.g., Russia is selling US T-bills to try and save the Ruble... or they were...)
Game over. I'm going to be merciless at Thanksgiving dinner to the relatives who told me 'its different here' last year. Oh, most listened. I'm just tired of one trying to be 'the big guy.' Its that type that put us deep in debt. (Married into the family.)
oneworldcurrency yogi writes:
Shays may be drunk.
Shays to Soros: "should the manager be required to invest in each of his hedge funds equally, to avoid conflicts of interest?"
Soros: "That is why I have only one fund."
Shays: "And has that fund outperformed your other funds?"
Soros: "I have only one fund"
Shays to next manager: "You're mumbling."
Soros: You can find the answer in my new book. Here, see a copy of a my new book holds book up for camera
Rep "Elijah" Cummings now going after their comp by comparing what government employees make, "Is that fair" he asks. Give me a break.
To be accurate he is focusing on "fairness" in tax structure, difference between ordinary income and capital gains. JA Paulson is doing good job of explaining that earnings are investment earnings, and should not be different from gains earned by any other investor.
Soros and Simons both cave and agree carried interest should be taxed as ordinary income.
Neil writes: I'm going to be merciless at Thanksgiving dinner to the relatives who told me 'its different here' last year. Oh, most listened. I'm just tired of one trying to be 'the big guy.'
My father-in-law assured me last Feb that he had taken my advice and converted his holdings to CD's. Last week, he gave me a list of stocks to "watch" for him. He hadn't sold chit.
I'm going to be polite about it, but "wow" - new worry is whether he can continue to live on his own.
Do you really buy that? It is Investment earnings for the guy who put his capital at risk. Paulson gets a cut from those earnings - like a bonus that is linked to Corporate Profits.
JA Paulson is doing good job of explaining that earnings are investment earnings, and should not be different from gains earned by any other investor.
Comrade Vistulian | Homepage | 11.13.08 - 1:36 pm | #
Rob Dawg writes: Agreed, but wouldn't you agree, that it may presage a FAIL?
Do bears wear tall hats? I mean, a Treasury fail is such a foregone conclusion at this point. It's just a matter of when and how crazy shit gets afterwards.
I'll say it again. I made 10 times more in capital gains this year than in my day job last year. The tax rates should be equal. Well, fellow CR winners?
Reformed Dope Brontide writes: "US President George W Bush will claim that the global financial crisis is not "a failure of the free-market system" in a speech on Wall Street later.
He is also expected to warn that government intervention is not a "cure-all" solution. "
I get $1 that says Mr. Market will headfake all the usual suspects, and rally at least 150 points from the time W opens his mouth until 15 minutes later.
"Vistulian don't you see the securitization disaster was in large part a way to turn ordinary income into capital gain?"
I agree with Simons, the singular biggest cause was failure of ratings system which allowed disintermediation of risk.
On tax policy, its not that capital gains are too low, but ordinary income tax is too high. I can see a day when they should be equalized, but not for the sake of simply raising the entire structure.
Rather than engage in the class warfare arguments, I'm looking for a package solution where all intersts are reconciled (SS, Gov't DB pensions, etc.). I reject vilifying or attacking just one side of the balloon.
Did everyone miss the FDIC taking the opinion that Store gift cards are equivalent to deposits and therefore deserving of the $250,000 insurance guarantee?
I'm also thinking tomorrow's retail reports could be a non-event. They're gonna be bad, but I think all the perma-bulls are getting back into the mindset of "we've tested the lows a 3rd time and they held...DOW 10,000 here we come...buy buy buy!"
I wouldn't be surprised with a decent rally into year end. We need a nice bear market rally to bolster the CNBC cheerleaders. Then everyone realizes just how bad everything really is and back comes DOW 8000 and below.
EvilHenryPaulson writes:
Did everyone miss the FDIC taking the opinion that Store gift cards are equivalent to deposits and therefore deserving of the $250,000 insurance guarantee?
I'm also thinking tomorrow's retail reports could be a non-event. They're gonna be bad, but I think all the perma-bulls are getting back into the mindset of "we've tested the lows a 3rd time and they held...DOW 10,000 here we come...buy buy buy!"
Did everyone miss the FDIC taking the opinion that Store gift cards are equivalent to deposits and therefore deserving of the $250,000 insurance guarantee?
EvilHenryPaulson | 11.13.08 - 1:54 pm
Gift cards = deposits -> retailers = banks -> retailers get tarp $$$$$
EvilHenryPaulson writes:
Did everyone miss the FDIC taking the opinion that Store gift cards are equivalent to deposits and therefore deserving of the $250,000 insurance guarantee?
Rob Dawg said: "No Seb, this is confirmation of numerous models that ultimately proved correct. Remember when you vainly held onto NBER proclamations as a legitimate defense of your positions? That this crew remembers and learns from the past is a compliment to the quality of comments."
What exactly did we learn? That "bullish" models with sound track records failed this time, but "bearish" models with spotty records turned out to be the right ones to use this time?
This is a case of the "winners" writing the history. They suspected correctly that a low-probability event was going to happen, but they didn't actually know anything that anybody else didn't. Which means they were at least as lucky as they were smart.
Hmm
I am complete
Flatlines can mean death.....just sayi
first?
First?
First!!
lol...not even close.
GE, Shares Plunging, Repeats Intention to Maintain Dividend
Nov. 13 (Bloomberg) -- General Electric Co., buffeted this year in a global credit crisis, repeated its Sept. 25 intention to keep its dividend level as shares fell below $15 in New York trading for the first time since 1996.
The bigger issue with CP is the outstanding stats IMNSHO - when the Fed jumped in they kicked up by $100 B, then the next week up by $50 B, then last week (released today) up by $2.9 B...
Commercial Paper Outstanding
Check out GLD trades in the last few minutes...looks like yet another hedge fund is liquidating today.
Lawmakers, Investors Ask Fed for Lending Disclosure
Lawmakers, Investors Ask Fed for Lending Disclosure (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
Nov. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Members of Congress, taxpayers and investors urged the Federal Reserve to provide details of almost $2 trillion in emergency loans and the collateral it has accepted to protect against losses.
At least five Republican members of Congress yesterday called for the Fed to disclose which financial institutions are borrowing taxpayer money and what troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral. More than 300 more investors and taxpayers also pressed for more disclosure in e-mails and interviews with Bloomberg News.
MoT, how can they maintain the dividend and go to the government with hat in hand? Geesh ...
Best Wishes.
Calculated Risk writes:
MoT, how can they maintain the dividend and go to the government with hat in hand? Geesh ...
My thoughts exactly, it is criminal.
OK here comes the questioning.
C-SPAN3 Live Stream - C-SPAN
How can anyone who got free ponies keep their divy? or their excessive comp?
Calculated Risk --
I am not sure watching these day-to-day fluctuations really tells us anything. A chart with some moving averages would probably be more useful...
MoT, how can they maintain the dividend and go to the government with hat in hand? Geesh ...
Conversely, how can the gov't back the issues and let them keep the dividend.
Idiots. This only exacerbates confidence problems.
Calculated Risk writes:
MoT, how can they maintain the dividend and go to the government with hat in hand? Geesh ...
It helps when guanxi is policy.
Lets say you have a commercial property in one of the BRICs and you want to sign a long term lease while the market is still good.
What would you base the yearly rent increases to make up for possible currency devaluation?
Sorry, should have said: "Here comes the windbag speeches"
MoT, how can they maintain the dividend and go to the government with hat in hand?
Hubris + greed. Shame is for the little people.
Calculated Risk: You keep on writing that you would like to see Fed effective funds rate near the target. The effective rate is nearby 0.20 - 0.30%. Federal funds futures price in likely target rate of 0.50% (50% probability) and 0.25%, or 0.75% target rate (with 20% probability) in December. Don't you think that they are simply doing stealth easining and we will at no point see effective rate near the target, which really isn't the target they try to hit?
The Fed is buying higher quality commercial paper (CP) and this is pushing down the yield on this paper (0.65% yesterday!) - and increasing the spread between AA and A2/P2 CP.
Brilliant observation. Federal "participation" is crowding out segments of the lending market.
Also, whatever happened to those (anecdotal) deals you were watching?
Detroit (the actual city) seeks $10 billion bailout:
freep.com | | Detroit Free Press
"Council President Pro Tem JoAnn Watson sponsored the resolution to use the money for public service employment, to fund mass transit plans and to place a moratorium on home foreclosures for two years."
Sometimes I think my home city of San Diego is screwed, then I just remember that somehow Detroit still exists.
CR,
The financial system is insolvent under current accounting rules. More an more people are realizing this.
Take GS. They doubled their asset book over the past 4 years. All with borrowed money and big leverage. What assets could they have bought that aren't under water? None. And no way can you hedge 1 trillion in assets. Hence the AIG bailout.
Nemo:
IIRC they got a funding commitment but it involved institutions that had TARP?
REBear,
You would tie rent increases to an index (e.g., CPI) and include a statement that rent will never decrease.
WOW Financials=Funeral to held next week. Memorial service to be announced.
Rob Dawg writes:
"Brilliant observation. Federal "participation" is crowding out segments of the lending market."
Bingo, California Asset Fund (vehicle for many CA agencies) has gone to 60% GSE debt and sucked oxygen out of short term corporates. Is Bond Girl around today?
I want to punch this Citidel guy with kitten parts. What a jag off.
It's not "crowding out". It's a flight to safety and away from fiction.
"Crowding out" does not occur at near zero interest rates.
Waxman is being very,very respectful to these guys (so far).
Waxman is being very,very respectful to these guys (so far).
His floor broker hasn't finished shorting the spoos yet.
Ok, they have hit the nerve - disclosure. The poison of all proprietary trading systems.
Hedge funds are good, as long as they are not the banks and are allowed to fail.
Just tell Waxman the truth, you regulate and there won't be a hedge fund industry. Cash and carry.
Simons tales low profile - aggregate reporting to Fed strictly for monitoring - not for public dissemination.
Soros agrees.
why is there a sudden drop in C in the last 10 minutes ?
any bad news in general?
Death rattle?
REL,
Thanks.
I would like to speak up in support of hedge funds.
Unlike mutual funds they aren't required to have 90% of assets invested all the time long only. That's just stupid
Well, 840 didn't hold terribly well, did it?
Paulson: "Equity is expensive"
Broken through prev lows per cnbc
so not fair having dueling financial hearings on cspan. i need the box inside the box.
SPX breaking 52-week low ..
ruh roh
I think we need to address a fundamental issue: Why does our system reward non productive activity more than productive avtivity?
Extrapolate that trend forward.
ooh, mr market, watch out, there's a skateboard on the steps.
I say again: Confidence was completely shattered yesterday. Look out.
Pssssssssst. Guess who !
shattered yesterday ? why ?
paulson blabberiong ?
EEV turned positive. Gift that keeps giving. Thanks Rich!
Retreat!
Dig the fortifications around 600, boys! Make it quick, make it sturdy!
Dar she blows! Dicky Moe!
shadoobee shattered shattered
Capitulation writes:
Pssssssssst. Guess who !
Nope, not yet. We still have a ways to go. I still have friends telling me that things are undervalued.
Looks like water is starting to slosh over the tops of the water-tight bulkheads...
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this concerning the Big Three saga is that there is a sub rosa struggle between red and blue states.
Obviously, Michigan is blue state with lots of Obama connections. On the other hand, the red states have lots of non-unionized foreign auto manufacturers (MB, BMW, Toyota, etc.). It's going to be interesting because Alabama (w/ lots of MB influence) seats two of the ranking members on the House and Senate Finance Committees, Rep. Bachus and Sen. Shelby, respectively.
Talk about a political and economic minefield for Obama.
Down goes Frazier
Down goes Fraizer
Hey Fulda must be moving too fast through the Chunnel to send us an update from the front...
I'm with JP. Everybody thinks now is the time to buy (insert asset class here). Capitulation comes when everybody is bloody and broken, and investing in a (insert asset class here) is the last thing on people's minds.
What would you base the yearly rent increases to make up for possible currency devaluation?
REBear
I'd get a futures contract. I agree to to pay you X rupies yearly over the next few years and you give me Y dollars (dont know why'd you want them tho;))
Of course should your rents not materialize you still owe someone those rupies.... (You'd owe the lender and now some IB, ouch!)
whoa! eakes "not a single one of the bankers on this panel has read the bankruptcy bill." no cramdown.
we knew this was coming yesterday in the AH ... only took an hour and a half of horsing around this morning before reality kicked in.
Ok, who just farted?
8100 we hardly knew you.
discerning investors declare market overvalued, prepare to reinvest at lower price levels
paulson blabberiong ?
It was the nature of the blabbering. He threw the banks to the lions by opening the TARP wider, and his ability to save the rest of the equity universe is fantasy.
Listen to the questions on the Shumer phone call that followed. Pretty devastating.
CR,
I thought that the Fed paying interest on bank reserves was supposed to solve the problem of the Fed funds rate being below target. (I don't understand how, do you?) Does this mean that the Fed is deliberately keeping rates below target? If so, why have a target rate in the first place?
Basel Too writes:
Ok, who just farted?
Basel Too | 11.13.08 - 12:58 pm
Are you my brother? He would say that same thing
This can't be happening! That market timing spammer guy called the bottom at 8300!
-Jaso
Will I ever make my money back?
Simons: Even with TARP going into equity we need to do something with the paper - push it into auction. Need to get it out of weak hands at a discount so deals can be made.
Looks like Krugman (a/k/a "Elvis") won't be getting a job within the Obama administration after all.
This can't be happening! That market timing spammer guy called the bottom at 8300!
I'm sure he'll be back to try again.
GS now sporting a 61 handle
You think Elvis is The Real Slim Krugman?
safe_as_apartments writes:
I'm with JP. Everybody thinks now is the time to buy (insert asset class here). Capitulation comes when everybody is bloody and broken, and investing in a (insert asset class here) is the last thing on people's minds.
Methinks so too. There's still a lot of people out there who still don't think its raining out.
Sebastian's Dad writes:
Will I ever make my money back?
Sebastian's Dad | 11.13.08 - 1:00 pm | #
LMFAO!!!
Calculated Risk writes:
MoT, how can they maintain the dividend and go to the government with hat in hand? Geesh ...
I can hear the conversation in my head. Admit it, you are jealous that the little voices choose to talk only to me.
"The dividend props up the price and keeps us in covenant for many many government retirement programs. You don't want mandatory CalPERS CalSTRS, etc. forced divestments now do you? Thus we keep the dividend for your own good. Now where's my check? The jet is idling on the runway and the Caymans banks close in a few hours."
Ok, who left the door open?
Looks like Krugman (a/k/a "Elvis") won't be getting a job within the Obama administration after all.
Shnaps
I've always wondered which alias Krugman posted under.
The "Sebastian's Dad" jokes never get tired.
Sebastian's Dad writes:
Will I ever make my money back?
Don't you mean "Will I ever get your money back?" It's mine now. Bwahahaha!
I wonder how all those people who bought when Buffet said to feel today?
Can someone catch the rally monkey and turn it around? I think it's running the wrong way.
Wow, I actually do some work and come back to -250+
When is Bush going to speak? Or did he?
lol
This can't be happening! That market timing spammer guy called the bottom at 8300!
And tomorrow he'll be spamming how he called the dive.....
7k today?
we are witnessing a perfect "el capitan"
this could be crater time.
7K right now.
What happened at 12:44? Who pressed the downslide turbo boost button?
skent,
About to post the same question...mo' cowbell!
7k today?
Ummm. yes.
I can't bear to tune in to Crammer but I wonder what he is telling sheeple .
crash in progress?!
MarketWatch rescaled the SPY graph nicely. Holy cow!
Buffet?? pwned
7966
8k we hardly knew you...and CNBC bring out all of those bottom callers please before you guys file BK I want to see those clowns one last time!
Somebody hold me. I'm scared.
At least they've decanted Julia Boorstin to deliver the market news wrapped in such a pleasurable package.
The more I watch the market go down and enjoy it the more I start to think I'm kinda a sick f*ck....
Is anyone else having these same issues?
.....
Google finance just sh*i the bed
phew, that was close. Someone just woke up to the 7 handle alert and pressed the buy button.
When does shrub speak? (I know, as if it matters.)
Is Maria naked yet? If not, it's not capitulation.
must hold 8000
lift lift lift
So which hedge fund just blew up?
GS now sporting a 61 handle
It would be zero absent government & fed bailouts.
And GS is about to pay huge bonuses to its employees.
What a sham.
and to think getting back in at 10K sounded reasonable a couple months back.
Sebastian's Dad writes:
Somebody hold me. I'm scared.
Still funny!!!
It's just a head fake until after 2pm.
Citi if officially a town now.
C and SBUX in a race to the bottom.....
Never thought they would be trading at same level. Oh well can't get it all right.....shoulda loaded back up on those C puts.
Ciao
MS
Sebastian's Dad writes:
Somebody hold me. I'm scared.
We are holding your put options. Isn't that good enough? Bwahahaha!
Lol saw this headline on google finance
"Southern California to stage earthquake drill"
ades,
schadenfreude is more than a river in Egypt or something like that...
mmm Blackberry storm
Hey, what just happened? My UYG puts that I thought were going to expire worthless, just went in the money...
dang! two financial hearings on cspan, market melting on bloomie and cnbc and work to do, overload!
Haloscan is killing me
If you are moved voice an opinion against the GM Bailout...
GM is mounting a campaign to save itself after years of self-neglect. Even Thomas Friedman of the New York Times thinks protecting the current company and management is a bad idea.
GM has set up a number to have your voice heard. Granted they want you to call and profess support but you can also call this number to say NO! to bailing out inefficent companies that have had ample time to fix it themselves (35 years since this problem happened once before).
Simply call 1-866-927-2233, enter your zip code and you will be able to connect with your representatives (Senate and House). When you are connected say:
I DO NOT support any bailout of General Motors (or Ford or Chrysler) and feel that, in the long run, the country will be better positioned if the current companies are left to make the hard-choices that will make them competitive in the future.
"Is anyone else having these same issues?"
My main issue is with kicking myself for shedding so many of my put positions yesterday. I'm down to only half a dozen SPY NOV 87s from more than 30. The lone EEV NOV 100 call still in my account is getting greener by leaps and bounds, though. Yummy.
Quick, someone wake up CSC before he misses it.
Comrade Kristina writes:
Citi if officially a town now.
And soon to be a village.
CITADEL
and
CITI
Blew up
"mr. margin on all lines"
That's gotta hurt....
Ciao
MS
You idiot! you and your damn Nobel Prize!!
Oh my MS, that's so cruel it's funny.
Oh shit, LIBOR's on its way back up again. I'm screwed.
Nah, that would be me Bama.
BOTTOM ! ! ! ! ! !
over the next few years and you give me Y dollars
Thanks Nades.
The plan is to keep 'gains' in local currency. Buy a farmland or something like that
These are nice summaries, but they don't mean much if the improvements are based on borrowed money backed by collateral assets that cannot (or will not) be valued.
I think Warren bought a little too early.
Wow, markets are a cliff diving.
Circuit breakers anyone?
EEV turned positive. Gift that keeps giving. Thanks Rich!
These ETFs that track foreign markets are lagging way behind the domestic ones. SRS and SKF are probably breaking new highs today while EEV, FXP, etc are still far behind.
Serf, what exactly is "work to do?"
Another addition?
Dudes, what just happened? 8000 was just annihilated. Is Maria Bartiromo topless yet?
I have to admit they are almost enticing me to refurbish my etrade account...almost.
Anonymous writes:
C and SBUX in a race to the bottom.....
....and yet, look at the SBUX p/e - - - still insanely high
I get confused, is now the time for "buy" or "bye"?
haha csc, I already commented about our lovely Maria...
SRS started out with a strong lead, but EEV is gaining fast out the outside.
Of course bot of them are 10 lengths behind SKF.
boy a little 8000 bounce those ppt boys grabbed the nerf bazzokas again dummies
ades - I see it this way.
I didnt buy a house, and yet, where I want to buy, prices are still far out of whack with incomes. And those who did, lucky them, bailouts.
I didnt get a tax rebate stimulus check. But I paid for those others got.
I have no debt, so I'll get no relief when many total f-ups get a handout when they cant pay their cc bills.
I just saw all the prices of things I buy skyrocket - and even with gas prices falling, they are still higher than theyve been for my entire life, save for a few months.
Basically, by doing the right thing, our mismanaged economic masters have said, screw you. And now that they are taking the economy apart piece by piece, and looting what they can on the way down.
So on top of all the craptastic stuff above, Im now seeing my clients go down the sinkhole. Which means now my business has to suffer too.
So no, I dont feel bad about enjoying the stock market sinking, because when Im in, im short, and that's about the only way I can get ahead now. Which, honestly, makes me sick.
7 handled triggered a bunch of buys. We'll see if it stops the tsunami.
8000 was just annihilated. Is Maria Bartiromo topless yet?
Back above 8000. All is well. Move along, nothing to see here.
Is Maria Bartiromo topless yet?
They're scaramonga. She's got three nipples.
At the rate this is going, you can get your precious metals for free, especially silver ..will cost too much to store them...Lol.
"Circuit breakers anyone?"
We'll need another 850 point drop in the DJI in the next 90 minutes to get one today. 1100 point drop is the requirement this quarter for any kind of temporary stoppage. 2200 for a "closed for the day" trip.
URGENT DISPATCH
TO: General Fulda
From: Central Committee
General Fulda, place UK invasion forces on standby ... 50/50 we will go today.
CC
popeye-
that's being worked on at the moment....
You want insane p/e look no further than AMZN....that's insane.
Ciao
MS
REBear are you sure you're technically trying to keep the gains in the local currency? It sounds like you're worried about your buying power here in the US? India uses a lot of gold! That might be your best bet. Then again their property transactions cost so much (15%-25% of sale price to the gov) that titles aren't worth a sh*t....
MB, hee hee, not sayin', but no more papers will be printed.
Checking in from Mexico. Let's see. My FAZ doing nicely today.
Well, back to the beach. Carry on here.
S&P reached an 11-year low, by the looks of the chart at Google Finance, dipping below the 2002 low for the first time this year.
-250? At 1:15?
Fulda is bluffing. Have the men stand down.
They're scaramonga. She's got three nipples.
Morocco Bama
Shhhh. Now she's gonna be mad at me for revealing a private moment. Well she, me and Julia B. and the film crew so it wasn't totally private.
There has never been a better time to buy a home!
cnbc online link anyone ?
or
bloomberg ?
"They're scaramonga. She's got three nipples.
Morocco Bama"
Is that a bad thing?
JP writes:
7 handled triggered a bunch of buys. We'll see if it stops the tsunami.
Nope, bounce maybe, hold nope, fundamental still suck, and getting worse by the day.
AIG TOES - you make me laugh - keep up the good witty posts. What happens if you reach london?
I'll give this "pop" another 5 minutes to show it's true colors.
0.09 = F ?
Is that a bad thing?
Nah, she can host a litter of us.
hater writes:
cnbc online link anyone ?
or
bloomberg ?
Watch Bloomberg TV US Live Online | Free Online Bloomberg TV US Tv Channel
CNBC is said to have no live online feed. If someone knows of one, please share.
clackety clackety clack clack clack...........WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
Geoff good point! (Unfortunately I dont have the huevos to short everything)
Cheers!
cnbc or bloomberg onlione TV link pls
are we going to make it to the Options exirpiration pump...
seems like a long way away
Nope, bounce maybe, hold nope, fundamental still suck, and getting worse by the day.
That's my sense too. But we've seen stupid irrational behavior before, so I'll believe it when I see it.
The swirling smoke contains messages from beyond, visible only to the seer. Today it is thick and heavily scented with fear and destruction.
DOW 5000 for Valentine's Day. That is what she says.
"are we going to make it to the Options exirpiration pump..."
To Eric: down boy. Breathe through it.
Next Monday is going to be Nymex's biggest settlement ever because of crude puts, or at least I read without verifying
My sources tell me James Carville posts here. Who is it?
for homedad and others in the area:
Foreclosures in Maryland surge 32 percent - Baltimore Business Journal:
Foreclosures in Maryland surge 32 percent
......
"are we going to make it to the Options exirpiration pump..."
To Eric: down boy. Breathe through it.
Nah... I did the study yesterday and posted the results here. I know I'm right, so others can invest how they wish.
"Foreclosures in Maryland surge 32 percent"
And they are the Terepins. Imagine the foreclosure rate if they were the Hares.
Morocco Bama writes:
My sources tell me James Carville posts here. Who is it?
DK =)
Kristina: Maria naked? If they find her so on the bull outside, I'm in.
Byzantine, you still say we'll be up 200 on the day?
seems to be some volume behind this 15 min rally
"My sources tell me James Carville posts here. Who is it?"
Not me. I'm Joe Isuzu. See my homepage pic.
Morocco Bama writes:
My sources tell me James Carville posts here. Who is it?
Lawyerliz
(He was a lawyer)
"My sources tell me James Carville posts here. Who is it?
Morocco Bama"
Sebastian.
I'm thinking Jas.
My sources tell me James Carville posts here. Who is it?
I have a full head of hair. I say it's Elvis.
cnbc online tv link pls
Morocco Bama writes:
Byzantine, you still say we'll be up 200 on the day?
We might be.
I just like to make random guesses. Don't think I'm betting on this dog race.
o Elvis is Krugman...
NEW YORK, Nov 13 (Reuters) - The price of 30-year U.S. Treasury bonds extended losses on Thursday after news of poor demand for a $10 billion reopening of a 30-year bond issue.
Bad news.
according to NPR already half of $700B is gone and for what good to Americans ?
I'm surprised people are not storming the White House and Congress alike dragging these thieves out for giving carte blanche to Paulson and this RICO administration.
Inverted toilet bowl formation now evident. BUY BUY BUY!
Anonymous writes:
NEW YORK, Nov 13 (Reuters) - The price of 30-year U.S. Treasury bonds extended losses on Thursday after news of poor demand for a $10 billion reopening of a 30-year bond issue.
How poor. Anyone got a report?
Carville is Sperm Shack, doing his best to make the right look foolish.
Great job, James!
you're going to be even more notorious soon if people here follow that advice.
Is this the Twilight Zone where they play guess the alien?
My sources tell me James Carville posts here. I was going to accuse CSC of being JC
Inverted toilet bowl formation now evident. BUY BUY BUY!
The Notorious A.I.G. | 11.13.08 - 1:26 pm
Duh, it's the inverted paramount mountain range. We go to +-50 for the day.
Byzantine_Ruins writes:
How poor. Anyone got a report?
13:13 ET 10-Yr: -03+/32..3.741%.. USD/JPY: 95.3500.. EUR/USD: 1.2470
Clocked: Heading into the reopened auction results trade was seeing the long end take a hit with the "when issued" running 4.225%. The market was expecting a decent showing as there remains an interest, albeit cautious, in duration. But the issue saw a 4.310% draw with a so-so 2.07 bid-to-cover, versus 2.40 in Aug and 2.69 in May, and a measly 18.2% in indirect bidders, seeing lessened interest from foreign central banks. The long end got clocked on the results, adding drag to the shorter maturities with the 30-yr hitting last week's lower levels, going to 4.21% yield to a 4.3%. The 10-yr got hit to take yields to 3.77% from 3.7%
source: Briefing.com: Bond Market Update
No, I'm pretty sure CSC is Sean Penn.
The Notorious A.I.G. said: "The "Sebastian's Dad" jokes never get tired."
Which is a sad commentary on the diminishing quality of the posts here, I'm afraid.
Sebastia
I just like to make random guesses. Don't think I'm betting on this dog race.
Byzantine_Ruins
Dawg race? Dawg race?!? This ain't even Jai Alai as far as being fixed is concerned.
Look at that yield curve, could go skiing.
http://bonds.yahoo.com/bonds_small.png
Elivs is spoofing Sebastian? ergo, james carville? i'm confused, who am i?
ades,
As you may know, most big (in terms of rupee) RE transactions in India are done using suitcases. That's not a good thing to do.
Farmlands that i like are going at $100K/acre. Way too expensive for me. Maybe you are right, sit on gold and wait for land prices to crash.
oneworldcurrency yogi writes:
Is this the Twilight Zone where they play guess the alien?
HA!
I'M BUSTED!
No, I'm pretty sure CSC is Sean Penn.
Morocco Bama
This cracked me up. I'm not sure whether to be flattered or offended.
Inverted toilet bowl formation now evident. BUY BUY BUY!
Mot until you hear the flush, otherwise you'll buy a load of crap.
Concatenated handles suck!
I've always taken Sebastian's advice and have never lost money.
I'm not sure whether to be flattered or offended.
Why not both? Light up another one for me.
wow. less than 20% of the players want to risk their capital buying worthless Amerikan paper.
Go figure.
But have you MADE any???
Which is a sad commentary on the diminishing quality of the posts here, I'm afraid.
Sebastian
No Seb, this is c0nfirmation of numerous models that ultimately proved correct. Remember when you vainly held onto NBER proclamations as a legitimate defense of your positions? That this crew remembers and learns from the past is a compliment to the quality of comments.
Which is a sad commentary on the diminishing quality of the posts here, I'm afraid.
yeah. I miss the days when there were a lot of people doing really bad analysis and telling us all to go long.
That was some quality posting.
Which is a sad commentary on the diminishing quality of the posts here, I'm afraid.
Sebastian
Sebastian | 11.13.08 - 1:29 pm | #
kind of like your buy buy meme
Shays may be drunk.
Shays to Soros: "should the manager be required to invest in each of his hedge funds equally, to avoid conflicts of interest?"
Soros: "That is why I have only one fund."
Shays: "And has that fund outperformed your other funds?"
Soros: "I have only one fund"
Shays to next manager: "You're mumbling."
From the last thread:
What is scary is that the dow is off more than 41% from it all-time high of 14,160.
I want my DOW 14,164 back!
NEW YORK, Nov 13 (Reuters) - The price of 30-year U.S. Treasury bonds extended losses on Thursday after news of poor demand for a $10 billion reopening of a 30-year bond issue.
Bad news.
Anonymous
Two failed T-bill auctions (the other was really short term at crappy rates).
Maybe with everyone having to sell whatever will sell... its trouble. (e.g., Russia is selling US T-bills to try and save the Ruble... or they were...)
Game over. I'm going to be merciless at Thanksgiving dinner to the relatives who told me 'its different here' last year. Oh, most listened. I'm just tired of one trying to be 'the big guy.' Its that type that put us deep in debt. (Married into the family.)
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Serf, you are obviously Ben Stiller.
Soros: "That is why I have only one fund."
Shays: "And has that fund outperformed your other funds?"
Soros: "I have only one fund"
Tell me Shays did NOT say that.
INDU, 9000, today.
Or 7000.
If Sebastian's here, who is hand is up Lawrence Yun's butt? And, if Carville's here, who's taking care of his wife, the Kraken?
I need to jump in here on this.
People keep thinkg banks won't lend, which is why we are in this mess.
WRONG!!
Banks aren't lending because they have no money.
You see, they have no money because of something called fractional reserve banking, which has literally left them with pennies on every dollar.
Now when debts and bills and bankrolls come due, they have to pay them or go BK.
So what do they do?
Hoard the cash to pay the bills.
Bottom line.
That and now they don't trust each other. Why lend to Paul when Peter won't pay you back and you still have to pay your own bills?
oneworldcurrency yogi writes:
Shays may be drunk.
Shays to Soros: "should the manager be required to invest in each of his hedge funds equally, to avoid conflicts of interest?"
Soros: "That is why I have only one fund."
Shays: "And has that fund outperformed your other funds?"
Soros: "I have only one fund"
Shays to next manager: "You're mumbling."
Soros: You can find the answer in my new book. Here, see a copy of a my new book holds book up for camera
That exchange was literal, by the way.
Indicators going well, S&P going worse
Makes sense
Don't worry. The Dow is having a Christmas sale at 75% off.
Sebastian is always lurking these days. Or perhaps he is another poster. CR? Hmmm....
I guess some bulls do hibernate. Others, like O-Joe, apparently migrate instead.
Two failed T-bill auctions (the other was really short term at crappy rates).
2.08 bid/cover is not a fail, it's just crap.
The other one was a TAF auction.
RayOnTheFarm writes:
My sources tell me James Carville posts here. I was going to accuse CSC of being JC
Well, Jesus was a bit of a hippy...
Rep "Elijah" Cummings now going after their comp by comparing what government employees make, "Is that fair" he asks. Give me a break.
To be accurate he is focusing on "fairness" in tax structure, difference between ordinary income and capital gains. JA Paulson is doing good job of explaining that earnings are investment earnings, and should not be different from gains earned by any other investor.
Soros and Simons both cave and agree carried interest should be taxed as ordinary income.
Paulson and Griffin balking.
Which is a sad commentary on the diminishing quality of the posts here, I'm afraid.
Sebastian
Sebastian | 11.13.08 - 1:29 pm | #
You jest! 90% of the quality posts of the past were the picking apart of the wright model b fallacy.
And just to preempt the CNBC bobbleheads.
No, that wasn't capitulation.
Capitulation is when you don't get a massive bounce.
2.08 bid/cover is not a fail, it's just crap.
B_R, The Notorious A.L.F.
Agreed, but wouldn't you agree, that it may presage a FAIL?
This has been my meme recently. My guess is that when the bid to cover ratio drops below 1.5 there will be a systemic failure of the process.
And Tierney is picking up on it. Cummings was expanding on the point made by the law professor in the last panel, and he was dead right.
Neil writes: I'm going to be merciless at Thanksgiving dinner to the relatives who told me 'its different here' last year. Oh, most listened. I'm just tired of one trying to be 'the big guy.'
My father-in-law assured me last Feb that he had taken my advice and converted his holdings to CD's. Last week, he gave me a list of stocks to "watch" for him. He hadn't sold chit.
I'm going to be polite about it, but "wow" - new worry is whether he can continue to live on his own.
Anonymous writes:
If Sebastian's here, who is hand is up Lawrence Yun's butt? And, if Carville's here, who's taking care of his wife, the Kraken?
I've put every penny I own into an ETF that tracks the Cephalopod Index. Trust me, go long on giant squid. You won't regret it.
Long or Short Capital » The Cephalopod Index is Officially Out of Control; Long the Giant Pacific Octopus - Paying Dividends Since Q1'06
Does anyone think that a retail sales number tomorrow that isn't "EVERY STORE IN AMERICA IS NOW CLOSED" will be good for 500+ points?
After all, they jammed it up after last week's horrible unenjoyment number.
Vistulian: Why do you put "Elijah" in quotes?
I'm confused.
When we now refer to the Big 3, are we talking the automakers or Maria's hooters?
Eric,
Capitulation is when you blindly hike across this mountain without a parachute
Booooyyaaaaahahahahah
get outa the bunker and start buying!
Do you really buy that? It is Investment earnings for the guy who put his capital at risk. Paulson gets a cut from those earnings - like a bonus that is linked to Corporate Profits.
JA Paulson is doing good job of explaining that earnings are investment earnings, and should not be different from gains earned by any other investor.
Comrade Vistulian | Homepage | 11.13.08 - 1:36 pm | #
"while the shit...the taxpayer money is still there."
Nice slip, dude.
Rob Dawg writes:
Agreed, but wouldn't you agree, that it may presage a FAIL?
Do bears wear tall hats? I mean, a Treasury fail is such a foregone conclusion at this point. It's just a matter of when and how crazy shit gets afterwards.
Conversely, how can the gov't back the issues and let them keep the dividend.
Idiots. This only exacerbates confidence problems
Ahh, another one of my favorite phrases from the Old Times...
"If you don't ask, you don't get"
Rally Monkey, nice to see you got turned around...
I'll say it again. I made 10 times more in capital gains this year than in my day job last year. The tax rates should be equal. Well, fellow CR winners?
Even Buffett agrees.
homedad43 writes:
I'm confused.
When we now refer to the Big 3, are we talking the automakers or Maria's hooters?
ROTFL - serious
Veronica Lynn, the hot asian porn star, also has a third mini-nipple. Not a problem for me.
BRK now a 5 digit stock.
BBC NEWS | Business | Bush defends free-market system
"US President George W Bush will claim that the global financial crisis is not "a failure of the free-market system" in a speech on Wall Street later.
He is also expected to warn that government intervention is not a "cure-all" solution. "
Nevermind my earlier predictions... -800 today.
The PPT is working overtime right now
mr monkey is happy to report that he doubled up since september....with a long bias....
ok, short puts... but that's still hope!
At least we know where the TARP money is going!
Currently Smoking Cannabis writes:
Veronica Lynn, the hot asian porn star, also has a third mini-nipple. Not a problem for me.
I've written once, I'm writing it again: the breadth of knowledge on this blog is staggering.
Sebastion may have a point - but I still won't look away.
lendingmaestro writes:
The PPT is working overtime right now
... could be, but volume on the stuff I watch - died off - back to very low volume now.
Vistulian don't you see the securitization disaster was in large part a way to turn ordinary income into capital gain?
Green coming........
CR - have you seen any robins yet?
PPT started early or what is going on ?
bumpity bump!
Back to green?
Eric,
Both Apple and Berkshire are only roughly up 41% compounded per annum since 1990 now
Reformed Dope Brontide writes:
"US President George W Bush will claim that the global financial crisis is not "a failure of the free-market system" in a speech on Wall Street later.
He is also expected to warn that government intervention is not a "cure-all" solution. "
I hope we can get a stream for this.
Idiot charties got caught out on the dow blowing thru 8200, are buying with both fists; selling should resume last 90 minutes.
OT: If the strengthening dollar was accounted for in the price of oil, it'd be selling for around $113/bbl.
Peak credit, anyone?
Anybody know miners who are looking to hedge their oil out for the next couple of years, could be a killing to be made.
If that speech is on during market hours, it'll be a circuit breaker.
I get $1 that says Mr. Market will headfake all the usual suspects, and rally at least 150 points from the time W opens his mouth until 15 minutes later.
clackety clackety clack clack clack...........wheeeee!
This is better than Six Flags.
And we're back to the top of the next big hill. Mommny, I had a bad dream.
Everyone just missed the market bottom, better buy now before being priced out forever on the way to Dow 36,000
HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN!! LOOK AT US WE ARE GREEN AGAIN!!! HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Market music.
YouTube - New Order - Everything's Gone Green
Well, that was relevant when I went to Youtube to find it...
Oh yeah... that's a healthy market response.
oil chart tells all today...
Crude Oil Chart
Anyone looked at a weekly chart lately?
oneworldcurrency yogi writes:
"Vistulian don't you see the securitization disaster was in large part a way to turn ordinary income into capital gain?"
I agree with Simons, the singular biggest cause was failure of ratings system which allowed disintermediation of risk.
On tax policy, its not that capital gains are too low, but ordinary income tax is too high. I can see a day when they should be equalized, but not for the sake of simply raising the entire structure.
Rather than engage in the class warfare arguments, I'm looking for a package solution where all intersts are reconciled (SS, Gov't DB pensions, etc.). I reject vilifying or attacking just one side of the balloon.
Did everyone miss the FDIC taking the opinion that Store gift cards are equivalent to deposits and therefore deserving of the $250,000 insurance guarantee?
Cooper (D, TN) is on target. Great nose for BS.
I'm also thinking tomorrow's retail reports could be a non-event. They're gonna be bad, but I think all the perma-bulls are getting back into the mindset of "we've tested the lows a 3rd time and they held...DOW 10,000 here we come...buy buy buy!"
I wouldn't be surprised with a decent rally into year end. We need a nice bear market rally to bolster the CNBC cheerleaders. Then everyone realizes just how bad everything really is and back comes DOW 8000 and below.
EvilHenryPaulson writes:
Did everyone miss the FDIC taking the opinion that Store gift cards are equivalent to deposits and therefore deserving of the $250,000 insurance guarantee?
Is that enforceable? Holy shit.
So, are we going to get a right-side-up Gandalf immediately following an inverted Gandalf?
ice intraday low there but we have some bargain hunters averaging in as we retest the recent Oct lows
afort56 writes:
I'm also thinking tomorrow's retail reports could be a non-event. They're gonna be bad, but I think all the perma-bulls are getting back into the mindset of "we've tested the lows a 3rd time and they held...DOW 10,000 here we come...buy buy buy!"
Isn't that the definition of insanity?
Did everyone miss the FDIC taking the opinion that Store gift cards are equivalent to deposits and therefore deserving of the $250,000 insurance guarantee?
EvilHenryPaulson | 11.13.08 - 1:54 pm
Gift cards = deposits -> retailers = banks -> retailers get tarp $$$$$
At least we know where the TARP money is going
My thoughts
As the tax law prof on the last panel said, we can argue about the rates, but they should be equalized.
EvilHenryPaulson writes:
Did everyone miss the FDIC taking the opinion that Store gift cards are equivalent to deposits and therefore deserving of the $250,000 insurance guarantee?
You're just living up to your first name, right ?
Per CNBC, GOP will not bailout automakers. Cliff dive again?
Rob Dawg said: "No Seb, this is confirmation of numerous models that ultimately proved correct. Remember when you vainly held onto NBER proclamations as a legitimate defense of your positions? That this crew remembers and learns from the past is a compliment to the quality of comments."
What exactly did we learn? That "bullish" models with sound track records failed this time, but "bearish" models with spotty records turned out to be the right ones to use this time?
This is a case of the "winners" writing the history. They suspected correctly that a low-probability event was going to happen, but they didn't actually know anything that anybody else didn't. Which means they were at least as lucky as they were smart.
Sebastia
by the way, Ken Griffin is an idiot
Per CNBC, GOP will not bailout automakers. Cliff dive again?
If by cliff dive, you meant 100 point jam, then yes.