FFDIC, I'm seriously considering applying to FDIC Legal, and I know that if I apply I will get the job. I'm in a very secure, lucrative job right now though. Is there some way I can contact you off thread to talk to you about the experience of working at the FDIC?
okay if Universal Health care is the answer as some say why is Gm closing plants in Canada? Do they pay for health care in Canada besides the corporate taxes they already pay?
So is this what is really meant by a liquidity trap?
Things are going to suck for a while.
On the other hand, the subcontractors handling the basement project are small, very competent and I'm finding that they are scheduled full for the next several months. Also splitting their guys amongst a few other projects so it's a constant in/out flow.
here have been endless stories written about executive compensation for banks participating in Treasury's Capital Purchase Program. As the rules clearly spell out, compensation for the five named executives is capped at $500,000, and there are additional restrictions on so-called golden parachutes. But I've yet to come across anything that looks at some of the perks -- mostly cars and country clubs -- that typically come with running even a modest-sized bank.
So you can imagine my surprise when I took a look at the 10-Q that Capital Corp. of the West (CCOW) filed late yesterday. As the bank, which has seen its stock decline 91% so far this year, announced back in July, it replaced longtime CEO Thomas Hawker with Richard Cupp, a veteran banker from the Los Angeles area.
But it wasn't until yesterday's filing that the bank included the details of Cupp's agreement. Under the agreement, Cupp will get paid $500,000 a year -- a 22% increase over Hawker's salary of $410,000. But it's the car -- specifically the stipulation that the "Company shall purchase or lease an automobile of the Executive's choice for his use as Chief Executive Officer at an 'out the door' cost not to exceed $55,000" that really made me pay attention, especially in light of the fact that the bank is asking the feds (read: taxpayers) for a $46 million helping hand. Given that, couldn't Cupp settle for a Nissan Versa?
FFDIC, I'm seriously considering applying to FDIC Legal, and I know that if I apply I will get the job. I'm in a very secure, lucrative job right now though. Is there some way I can contact you off thread to talk to you about the experience of working at the FDIC?
Hoopajoops LTD | 11.19.08 - 11:13 am | #
No. Your experience at FDIC during this time should prove valuable career wise regardless if you retire from FDIC or move on later. I say go for it just be prepared for very hard work, travel, and a world unlike anything you have experienced before. It also will tend to take a toll on your health and more than a few have dropped dead on the job.
blackhat writes:
I believe most Americans will be subcontractors when this is through. W2 will also be a memory--fond.
Don't count on it. Obama brought up the fraud involved in the classification of workers as 1099's and the tax losses incurred more than once. Auditers will be in high demand soo
Somewhat OT
I'd been puzzled as to how Congress, or some of it, could happily plan on yet more billions here and there. Those people aren't stupid (it'd be easier to understand them if they were). Big light bulb came on this morning when I heard Barney Frank being interviewed. He's ok with spending money on the Big 3 because he's assuming we're going to stop war spending and move away from employment-related health care. That'd free up billions on the one hand and make the existing health plan related woes of GM go away. Well, then, yeah, we -would- have more money. But isn't that kind of like me agreeing to buy a huge new luxury mansion now because I'm pretty sure my 15-year old son is gonna marry a rich lady someday?
hank to kashnkarry: tarpy has a little note from the Somalian Pirates Bank Holding Co, she thinks they are some old Skull&Bones friends of W. I think we are running low on billions, but could you shove one of those pallets of C notes out the back door for them?
blackhat writes:
Also, we'll see residential zoning laws once again allow chickens and goats in the backyard.
blackhat | 11.19.08 - 11:22 am
My family had that conversation over dinner last night. If things start getting close to our worst-case scenario, the chicken coop is going up, and the small town Andy G. & Barney F. will either have to kill us or get out of the way.
Goats aren't in the works until they bow down to our coops...
Earlier Wednesday, Sen. Richard Shelby, the senior Republican on the Banking Committee, said he did not believe there would be a turnaround in industry until its top management is ousted and its manufacturing operations are revamped.
"I don't think they have immediate plans to change their model, which is a model of failure," Shelby said. He said he thinks a large part of any such bailout would amount to "life support" for the automakers.
"I believe their best option would be some type of Chapter 11 bankruptcy," he said. "These leaders have been failures and they need to go."
Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., disagreed with that, saying choosing the bankruptcy option would likely mean abrogation of labor contracts. "We already have too much union busting," Frank said.
irreverent writes:
hank to kashnkarry: tarpy has a little note from the Somalian Pirates Bank Holding Co
Just tell the Somalis don't f*ck with Jas.
An Indian navy warship has sunk a Somali pirate "mother ship" in the Gulf of Aden, the world's most treacherous waterway, after the renegades threatened to attack the frigate.
Ford is getting hammered worse than GM for some reason and I thought they were more economically "viable" than GM..up is down, left is right, not much makes sense now.
I must admit that I am embarrassed for America when Maxine Waters gets her mug in front of a camera. Are there no more capable individuals in her district, or are they doing too well financially selling crack to waste their time being public servants?
Kona says sell writes:
Earlier Wednesday, Sen. Richard Shelby, the senior Republican on the Banking Committee, said he did not believe there would be a turnaround in industry until its top management is ousted
Shelby pumping his own book. Alabama has given away millions to lure foreign auto makers to their cracker laden, atavistic state. Also, Shelby got a sweetheart loan from Frannie for an Apt. complex he owns. Shelby should be drug out back and viscously beaten. I volunteer my services.
I hate to contradict you, but I specifically remember Chairman Bernanke saying just the other day that everything is getting better because of his actions. Why do you have to be so negative all the time? Do you really need to rely so heavily on facts? No one in government does.
Thanks FFDIC. I was hoping the law side of things would be less travel-heavy but I guess I was wrong. I think you're right in that it is a once in a lifetime opportunity, career wise, to say that I worked for the FDIC during the Great Crisis.
Shelby is a puke, his whole state is a cesspool of illiterate, drooling rednecks with the lowest wages in the Union and people living in cardboard boxes...He'll be in line for a bailout before long.
disagree. GM actually does not have real cash on hand. He says we've got no money, stock goes to zero, no roll-over credit, and it's all liquidation from there.
"where you think the hedgies are putting their money?" [last thread]
[NOTE: Thanks to the pig, for once I didn't put the last post on a stale thread. Love that technology!]
Last week I was privy to an offering of 100MM for all-cash acquisition of agricultural land and equipment. Oil crops, geographically diversified: canola north, soy midwest, cotton and sunflower south and west, along with their rotations.
One of the interesting things was how they presented the crop/land analysis in net meal mega-calories and oil BTU per acre (products after the "crush", and after the energy input into production).
The strategy is obvious: all potentially "human consumption" crops, with several different plays: inflation hedge, low cost land holds, water rights (in some target areas), bio diesel, and, as they always say about land: "they're not making any more of it."
But it's all very different than the 20% a week targets with 30x leverage of the hedge funds. New world.
Also in the article: Not far away, metal, cardboard, paper and plastic are piling up in the lot of Corridor Recycling. The company takes in refuse from around the country, then bales it for shipment to China. The cardboard is used to make new boxes while used shrink wrap is turned into shoe soles and insulation for sleeping bags and coats.
For much of this year, the company shipped about 25 containers a day, each filled with 23 tons of refuse to be recycled. But after the Olympics, demand slowed for recycled metal. In October, demand for everything else took a sharp downturn, and for the last two weeks the company has not shipped a single container.
The major culprit has been the Wall Street crooks and their Republican allies in the White House since Raygun.
Sure Clinton did a few bad things, but nothing on the scale of the damage down by Raygun and the 2 Bushes.
There is no way to value Ford and even with a few bucks, they have demonstrated that all they know how to do is burn cash!
Two points:
Securitization does not change reported Net income
Ford Credit may need to further reduce the amount of finance receivables and operating leases it purchases or originates; this reduction could reduce Ford Credit's ongoing profits and adversely affect its ability to support the sale of Ford vehicles
[ understand why GM would be getting battered, but why F? Is it just a "Caught-in-the-Net" affect, or is F worse off than we are lead to believe]
My sense is an equity bet on F is a better than GM. F still has the potential to get taken private. GM is a ward of the US taxpayer, after common & preferreds get wiped out.
Here we are 15 months and 4 trill investing into our leveraged based economy trying to keep this balloon inflated, still on a weekly basis we turn over a new rock and find more trash. Not a perma bear or bull, but can read. We are in a paradigm shift out of leverage across the board. Where that's going to leave asset values remains to be seen.
Thanks FFDIC. I was hoping the law side of things would be less travel-heavy but I guess I was wrong. I think you're right in that it is a once in a lifetime opportunity, career wise, to say that I worked for the FDIC during the Great Crisis.
Hoopajoops LTD | 11.19.08 - 11:43 am | #
Travel will depend on what you do for FDIC. Many lawyers travel to mediations, settlement conferences, training, trials, meetings w/other fed & state regulators, banks, etc. You can always get a medical restriction from your doctor. I knew one guy (supervisor)who refused travel unless his wife went along so he was grounded.
Comrade Kristina writes:
Ford is getting hammered worse than GM for some reason and I thought they were more economically "viable" than GM..up is down, left is right, not much makes sense now.
Must be the whole sell-the-news thing. This morning they unveiled their refreshed mid-size cars for Ford and Mercury. Standard and hybrid versions get better fuel economy than Accord/Camry competitors.
OT--Another sign of the times: I was in Austin Texas for SC08, but noticed on the front page of the local Austin newspaper yesterday that a outdoor weekend Woodstock like multi-band rock concert planned in nearby San Marcos was cancelled when NOBODY showed up! Organizers had thought they would get a 100,000 fans.
Is it just a "Caught-in-the-Net" affect, or is F worse off than we are lead to believe?
Ford probably is in the best shape in the NA market from a product/brand portfolio perspective. But from a cash perspective, they could be in worse shape. Or shorts are pushing it down.
Zoom Zoom writes:
NY Times: Port of Long Beach filling up with unwanted Toyotas, Mercedes',
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz. I'm counting on you lord, I must make amends. I worked hard all my lifetime with no help from my friends. So Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz.
FFDIC, that medical restriction idea is gangbusters. I have just the "condition." Thanks for the tip. God bless federal employment.
Hoopajoops LTD | 11.19.08 - 11:53 am | #
You sound like a perfect FDIC fit!
Unless you are already Fed employee, you have to 1 year. They can fire you without cause in your first year. After that you're bullet proof until the budget get's cut, then you're riff'd. Knowing this, you go in, do what your told for the first year, then pull your travel restriction, then transfer out to another fed agency before the ramp down hits.
I think there is a possibility of consolidating all three into one and having one socialized auto maker without a union, and justice for all. That would also mean dumping 80% of insider mang and BODs, shaking out virtually all shareholders, and then going through years of re-org and re-tool to compete with Japan, Germany and China.
We really don't need 3 car manufacturing plants pumping out new depreciating models every 8 months. The model is broken and Ford to 20 cents...
Talking about BAC having a bad day, I think it is definitely a scary data point when SBUX--bearer of fancy, over-priced coffee--has a higher stock price than C.
I'm thinking of starting a NCAA March Madness bracket for December and rank stocks and see who is the bigger % gainer or lesser % loser. Have the "tournament" end on close of business Dec 13, 2008 to see who is the "winner".
FD: I'm long in physical PM and wishing I had kept my SRS, SDS, and SKF stocks longer.
You guys understand that seeds dug out of fruit & veggies bought in your neighborhood grocery store won't grow anything....they must be open-pollenating seeds (like heritage or heirloom) not 2nd-generation seeds from store.....also, mini-cows are MUCH easier to care for and milk than goats IMO....
Don't forget A-76. Another way to get riff'd out of your job when the study reveals that your work is no longer inherently governmental and you can be replaced by a contractor.
Dave of SV (formerly just Dave writes:
"OT--Another sign of the times: I was in Austin Texas for SC08, but noticed on the front page of the local Austin newspaper yesterday that a outdoor weekend Woodstock like multi-band rock concert planned in nearby San Marcos was cancelled when NOBODY showed up! Organizers had thought they would get a 100,000 fans."
That's a sign of nothing but stupidity! Organizers had never done anything like it before and did no publicity. ACL fest in Sept was packed (77,000 per day). We will see what happens with SXSW in March.
saw Quantum of Solace this weekend with son and all the vehicles were Ford and the closing vehicle is a Ford Hydrogen vehicle - with the word "Hydrogen" in the letters on the front of the hood.
Agree that F is the best set of the three to survive and I'm thinking that once we get OB in the WH, they'll still be around.
As to buyouts of F, who'd buy?
Frankly, if the others go down, do you think that the country wants its last automaker to be bought by a foreign entity? Apologize if sounds xenophobic, but this is a key part of our industrial base.
I think that they'll get some money but the management is going to be toast and this beating is the set-up.
This bottom is holding. Need more sell volume to blow through it and it just aint there. Had a good chance the past 2 days and couldnt do it. Someone is buying in large volumes at 8200ish on the Dow and 830ish on the S&P. It aint me....
Don't forget A-76. Another way to get riff'd out of your job when the study reveals that your work is no longer inherently governmental and you can be replaced by a contractor.
In the 90s FDIC just closed entire offices leaving everybody unemployed except for a few who escaped to other destinations because they knew somebody. Think Chicago, Denver, Houston, Irvine, Atlanta, Boston...
Just sold out of SRS at $203. It is like a printing press. Amazing how you can profit from macro factors that the masses won't accept. Thanks again to all for the wisdom (in many cases) on this site over the years.
that's a fine point about a cow, however unless you have between 10-20lbs of feed on hand, every day, 365 days a year, or are sitting on 2.5 acres of oat/legume/grass fields, I don't recommend a milk cow in anybodies backyard. However, the goat you can take over to the weeds growing on the side of the road which the local municipality has no money to cut...then you milk the goat for cheese, use the poop for fertilizer.
In a pinch, you eat roasted goat, and don't forget to save the leggings--leggings will be huge in the days to come.
seriously.
blackhat | Homepage | 11.19.08 - 11:58 am | #
In '91 FDIC involutarily transferred me from Houston to Franklin, Ma for union organizing. After 3 years I was forced to accept a DOWNGRADE and cut in pay to transfer back home to Dallas where my then 14 yo daughter lived w/her mom. My pay was stuck at the top of the downgraded range for 3-4 years until I filed a grievance which took a year or more to settle. Then, I was blacklisted. It goes on and on...
I bought at $87 around summer 2008, sold at $180 a few weeks ago, bought again at $136 a couple weeks ago and just sold at $203. Over 200% return. I hope it goes back down below $130 for another run.
A general notice to those interested in agriculture and husbandry. Dept. of Ag's Leaving on one Acre is pretty basic text, not very detailed, but gives enough starter info that you can decide if you really want to buy the goat/cow/chickens, etc...
there are other texts like the Contrary Farmer, etc... which also provide good advice...and
for general humorous survival tips, I recommend Come Back Alive.
Many people are waiting till the market does a major flush to get back in long
Yep. And according to Conjure, it's the end of Jan 09.
Paulson is done playing. Bush is eating potato chips, watching TV, waiting for Jan 20 so he can go home. Obama can't do anything until then, and it's not likely that he'll implement major fiscal policy on his first day.
So come Jan 09, either it will be a great time to buy in or it won't matter.
.
Citi to take net write-downs of $3 billion during the fourth quarter
Re: Oct 15, 2007: Chief Executive Officer Charles Prince, who has overseen a 17 percent drop in the company's stock this year, said momentum "continues very strong" in most of the company's businesses. Since Prince became CEO in 2003, Citigroup shares are virtually unchanged, compared with a 29 percent jump at Bank of America Corp., the second-largest U.S. bank by assets.
""A seven-month (FDIC insured) CD at BofA will give you 2.4%, yet people are buying 3-month treasuries at 0.1%?!?!?!?""
"Many people are waiting till the market does a major flush to get back in long. If you don't know when the flush is going to be you don't want to lock your money into a CD."
Certain banks are offering very good rates on money market/savings accounts. I'm earning 4% APY in 2 different banks, with all holdings FDIC insured.
In another portfolio, I've got a guy laddering into very short term CDs (2 months typically) with yields in the 3.75 to 4.25 range.
Most of these funds had been in a Treasury MM fund, but I had to find some better returns.
13-WEEK TREASURY BILL remains on high alert, as short term rates are no longer related to yield, this is a matter of hoping for preservation of capital. The cost of being on the sidelines is going up as inflation eats away gains and of course cash flow in a liquidity trap amounts to stalemate:
The term zugzwang is frequently used in chess. A player whose turn it is to move who has no move that does not worsen their position is said to be in zugzwang
Dow is essentially a 28.5 stock index at this point. Even when it drops 10-15% in a day, GM can at most do about 5-6 points of damage to the index number. C is rapidly approaching that level. It is down significantly today and yet, is only removing about 9 points from the index. Combined today, GM & C remove about 17.5 points. Something to think about since as the pps on C/GM goes to zero the other 28 stocks on the index have their relative contribution boosted.
I do seem to recall Barry Ritholtz doing a post about S&P 500 companies that no longer pass the price per share test to be included.
If our fearless leaders don't get busy and do something, this economy is going to be comatose by the end of January.
I've been tracking state revenue numbers for some time. Based on sales and corporate income tax, the real economy has been fugly since the collapse of Lehman.
I'd hate to see what comatose is going to look like.
@blackhat:
"or are sitting on 2.5 acres of oat/legume/grass fields"
And 2.5 acres per head is not the same as 2.5 acres for your one head, right? Without time for a given piece of land to rest a little, the manure and graze-down will turn that grass into crappy dirt pretty quickly.
I second the notion of goats for (sub)urban farming. But I'd add some geese to the yard. Peck apart and de-worm the droppings.
"...He's ok with spending money on the Big 3 because he's assuming we're going to stop war spending and move away from employment-related health care. That'd free up billions..."
One more time: Budgetary cost of the wars in Iraq and Afganistan per month?
I know the answer because I've typed it so many times.
The cost of this bailout dwarfs war costs. The dollar value of guaranteed loans to auto makers over the last year would fund the wars for a year.
I don't care about the constant lies. I'm just sad the media burying them.
....UR right....but the cow eats the same as the goats do and DOESN'T jump, dig, screw everything in site, raise hell with your garden, nor make a total mess of its environment - she's pretty much an "everything is OK" kinda mammal not to mention a provider of 600 lbs of beef every year and a walking compost machine. But then my milk cow is also the only female around here that listens to me as well - that's the clincher!
Hoopajoops LTD writes:
Thanks FFDIC. I was hoping the law side of things would be less travel-heavy but I guess I was wrong. I think you're right in that it is a once in a lifetime opportunity, career wise, to say that I worked for the FDIC during the Great Crisis.
Hoopajoops LTD | 11.19.08 - 11:43 am | #
Yeah....once in a lifetime change at gaining a stigma that will follow you to eternity...when the FDIC gets exposed to the great unwashed. Might use some self preservation and avoid that because lawyers already have it tough in the public opinion arena.
You are correct per head. And as I understand it 2.5 is the lower limit. Depending on the area (fertile verses marginal) it can go as high as 5 acres for moderately fertile with moderate rainfall to 10 acres for marginal.
Geese is also a great idea.
But again, everyone must keep in mind the cost of feed. Not insignificant if you aren't growing the good supply.
Did some audit work at CCOW. The former management had some slue. The new management has no clue. It really is shocking. One audit firm refused them as a client due to management incompetence. If an accounting firm turns down huge fees, you know there is a big problem.
Sunoco downgraded at Deutsche Bank from Hold to Sell. Valuation call, based on lower expected demand and oil prices.
This brings up a dynamic with the crashing auto industry, i.e, what happen sto oil if these three fail or merge? It seems that the writing is on the wall for fuel efficiency and cars that do not use petrol, so as demand decreases....
You forgot the mantra for the past 20+ years: "It is only a loss when you cash out." Repeat and rinse as necessary.
However, I agree that F isn't a value buy unless you think it is going private, and if it was going private, rest assured that people more informed than us would be gobbling it up for the cost of a McD's $1 value meal burger...
For Presidential comparisons, look at 'Only Yesterday' by F. Lewis and his description of Harding: good looking genial figure head, incompetent not too bright and depending on subordinates, tremendous governmental scandals. Used to be tops in the list of worst Presidents but I think we have a new winner for the next 230 years.
My company has kille application on the web for dealers..really only thing working for them..it's still brutal...20 dealer group-40K per store ad budget..all 20 split 75k now....
O/T I have been in the local HD (Leesburg Va) 4 times in the last week at circa 10am. Very empty. Today I needed a few 2"x4"x10' pressure treated boards. There were none. Nor 8'ers. I asked them to get some from out back as I could see none on the upper racks. The kid opened the back door and the entire apron behind the store was virtually empty asphalt. Normally there are about 20 or more 18 wheeler loads of extra supplies back there. There was no lumber at ALL. Just a couple of pickup loads of drain pipe. I said, "Where is your stock?". He just shook his head and looked rueful. On my way down to the electrical department I could smell the faint but unmistakeable odor of decaying flesh. "What irony!" I thought. Dead man walking.
13-week still in danger zone, and with oil falling and the de-stability of the auto industry, a recession, TARP failure, every financial model broken, VIX headed higher, yields dropping, children screaming, Buffett bailing, XMAS sales will be seriously impacted and Obama will come to office in the midst of a deflationary crash.
Meanwhile, General Motors Corp.s credit-default swaps reflected a cost of $7.5 million upfront with a $500,000 annual payment to protect $10 million in bonds. (It cost about $7.15 million on Friday.) Headed into the opening bell, GM shares were traded at $2.91, down 5.8%, while Ford Motor Co. was down 1.8% to $1.65 a share.
Guys, don't you remember that famous phrase "What's good for General Motors is good for the country"??? Obviously then massive bailouts are good for the country!
Anecdotal: Just got an email from a retired Navy commander I know who needs to move, looking for a job, has a few job offers, but says he is 60 - 80 k upside down on his house in southern Maryland.
Wow, that's a great image! Cows, and also sheep, are just great animals. Goats, yeah, not so much.
When I was a little boy, an uncle had a diary farm with 30 or so Holstein cows and the attendant calves/heifers. Other than the twice a day/365 milking and feeding, it was about as idyllic as possible. If a little remote.
"A seven-month (FDIC insured) CD at BofA will give you 2.4%, yet people are buying 3-month treasuries at 0.1%?!?!?!?"
Many people are waiting till the market does a major flush to get back in long. If you don't know when the flush is going to be you don't want to lock your money into a CD.
The auto makers are failing and need to pay higher premiums for CDS, yet Wall Street, who issues and plays with CDS derivatives, is failing and has to pay higher premiums for their CDS, so they rely on The Treasury, who is failing and is in the process of losing out AAA country rating, so they are paying higher premiums -- yet, all these players want more taxpayer money to pay off the bad bets, yet, many of the taxpayers out there are failing because of taking on too much leverage and thus they have less money to give to the government to fund this game. The system and all models are broken.... this is a systemic collapse on a global basis and it does seem as if America will have to socialize the auto industry, health care, banking, insurance and essentially modify our form of government.
Just got spammed by Chase for a home loan; the subject line is "Chase is strong and dependable" -- hmmmm...Chase has the same ad man that the male enhancement product has...
Who wants to do buyouts now. Just wait for the companies to go bankrupt and pick up the useful parts at fire sale prices with a fraction of the liability of a traditional buyout.
Long time ago someone pointed out one basic economic reason why Amish farms and communities are perennially prosperous: virtually no unamortized capital cost, and, baring sustained drought or natural disasters, the energy input (kids, horses, oxen) is less than the energy output (crop calories less feed for kids, horses and oxen).
In other words, no leverage, either financial or operational.
Is today the day that we finally put the Bulls down for a while?
We have some momentum, and that three time low is being approached with some urgency. Are we in a short squeeze trap or possible free fall on the other side of the low?
"The 1% decrease represents the fraction of cars piled up at the dock.
"http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2...long- beach.html"
--Bruce
Interesting. I wonder if Rob Dawg can see the storage areas at Port Hueneme from his perch in VenCo. I remember seeing acres and acres of brand new Mazdas stored nearby during the last recession.
Hank got his sell his his $500M worth of GS capital gains tax free when he took the appointment as Sec of Treas . He did waht he could for his friends with TARP but can't do any more. Will they turn state's evidence on him ?
bearly writes:
GS now in the $50s. Hank must be going apeshit.
bearly | 11.19.08 - 12:34 pm | #
I just get this overwhelming feeling that today is just like last Thurs --- test the support (820-30) for an extended period, break through, slingshot back up
Since the dominoe theory of CDS was the winning play for Bear and AIG, you would think GM would be running around at the hearing shouting "Systemic Risk, Systemic Risk. Financial Collapse."
I mean, being so pedestrian as to say the economic rough patch is hurting them. I mean, sheesh, cmon.
Anyway see that the CPI dropped 1% in a MONTH?
Pig ping!
First? You've got to be kidding.
another day, another missed opportunity for first.
FFDIC, I'm seriously considering applying to FDIC Legal, and I know that if I apply I will get the job. I'm in a very secure, lucrative job right now though. Is there some way I can contact you off thread to talk to you about the experience of working at the FDIC?
Yep, you were kidding.
No Pig!
Well, you didn't expect results from $2 trillion worth of stimulus, did you?
Time for a few more trillion.
okay if Universal Health care is the answer as some say why is Gm closing plants in Canada? Do they pay for health care in Canada besides the corporate taxes they already pay?
Hoopajoops LTD,
You do understand that FDIC can send you all over the place, sometimes unpleasant. And you can get riff'd pretty quick.
So is this what is really meant by a liquidity trap?
Things are going to suck for a while.
On the other hand, the subcontractors handling the basement project are small, very competent and I'm finding that they are scheduled full for the next several months. Also splitting their guys amongst a few other projects so it's a constant in/out flow.
I believe most Americans will be subcontractors when this is through. W2 will also be a memory--fond.
Also, we'll see residential zoning laws once again allow chickens and goats in the backyard.
for what it's worth:
Corus to defer interest payments; seeks TARP money
UPDATE 2-Corus to defer interest payments; seeks TARP money
| Reuters
CR, what metrics should we monitor to see how much/how fast the Fed is engaging in 'quantitative easing'?
So...$350 billion and no progress...what a waste of money, no surprise here!
Mr. Economy is fibrillating.
Time to get out the fiscal stimulus stun gun.
Stat!
Scumbag of the day award (from thestreet.com)
here have been endless stories written about executive compensation for banks participating in Treasury's Capital Purchase Program. As the rules clearly spell out, compensation for the five named executives is capped at $500,000, and there are additional restrictions on so-called golden parachutes. But I've yet to come across anything that looks at some of the perks -- mostly cars and country clubs -- that typically come with running even a modest-sized bank.
So you can imagine my surprise when I took a look at the 10-Q that Capital Corp. of the West (CCOW) filed late yesterday. As the bank, which has seen its stock decline 91% so far this year, announced back in July, it replaced longtime CEO Thomas Hawker with Richard Cupp, a veteran banker from the Los Angeles area.
But it wasn't until yesterday's filing that the bank included the details of Cupp's agreement. Under the agreement, Cupp will get paid $500,000 a year -- a 22% increase over Hawker's salary of $410,000. But it's the car -- specifically the stipulation that the "Company shall purchase or lease an automobile of the Executive's choice for his use as Chief Executive Officer at an 'out the door' cost not to exceed $55,000" that really made me pay attention, especially in light of the fact that the bank is asking the feds (read: taxpayers) for a $46 million helping hand. Given that, couldn't Cupp settle for a Nissan Versa?
The yield on 3 month treasuries increased to 0.105% from 0.14%.
Don't you mean decreased here?
Citigroup falls below U.S. Bancorp in market value
| Reuters
Citigroup falls below U.S. Bancorp in market value
GM guy under the gun: "How much money do you need to survive until March 30, 2009?"
Wagoner can't answer.
Max
He can't because if he doesn't get the money everyone will realize how weak his hand is
FFDIC, I'm seriously considering applying to FDIC Legal, and I know that if I apply I will get the job. I'm in a very secure, lucrative job right now though. Is there some way I can contact you off thread to talk to you about the experience of working at the FDIC?
Hoopajoops LTD | 11.19.08 - 11:13 am | #
No. Your experience at FDIC during this time should prove valuable career wise regardless if you retire from FDIC or move on later. I say go for it just be prepared for very hard work, travel, and a world unlike anything you have experienced before. It also will tend to take a toll on your health and more than a few have dropped dead on the job.
blackhat writes:
I believe most Americans will be subcontractors when this is through. W2 will also be a memory--fond.
Don't count on it. Obama brought up the fraud involved in the classification of workers as 1099's and the tax losses incurred more than once. Auditers will be in high demand soo
Did you forget that it's 'world toilet day' today?
Somewhat OT
I'd been puzzled as to how Congress, or some of it, could happily plan on yet more billions here and there. Those people aren't stupid (it'd be easier to understand them if they were). Big light bulb came on this morning when I heard Barney Frank being interviewed. He's ok with spending money on the Big 3 because he's assuming we're going to stop war spending and move away from employment-related health care. That'd free up billions on the one hand and make the existing health plan related woes of GM go away. Well, then, yeah, we -would- have more money. But isn't that kind of like me agreeing to buy a huge new luxury mansion now because I'm pretty sure my 15-year old son is gonna marry a rich lady someday?
Close to zero again!
What are the economic implications of negative rates?
Rome wasn't destroyed in a day.
He can't because if he doesn't get the money everyone will realize how weak his hand is
No offense, but that's complete BS. He's either bluffing about the direness of the situation, or he's about to go under.
Not being specific only makes sense if he's lying. If he's about to go under, he has nothing to lose by being honest.
The 1% decrease represents the fraction of cars piled up at the dock.
ROFLOL
Unsold Goods Piling Up at Long Beach « naked capitalism
The troops are getting tired of French food.
Meawhile auto exec's flew on corporate jets to get to Washington?
Also, why are they wasting so mmuch money on ads all over tv?
Max the banks are asking for bridge loan payment. GM has been out of cash for years. They only have borrowed money on hand.
Crispy, hedged on adspace earlier...
hank to kashnkarry: tarpy has a little note from the Somalian Pirates Bank Holding Co, she thinks they are some old Skull&Bones friends of W. I think we are running low on billions, but could you shove one of those pallets of C notes out the back door for them?
Also, why are they wasting so mmuch money on ads all over tv?
crispy&cole
Because they are still pumping out vehicles for every sale they make 3...
They all should have gone to a two day week 'bout six months ago.
Max the banks are asking for bridge loan payment. GM has been out of cash for years. They only have borrowed money on hand.
So why aren't the banks in on the discussion?
Maxine Waters
Everyone shut up
"Oh no you're not" action in gold. Or is it?
Are there that many sellers poised at 76XX waiting to sell?
Everyone shut up
Oh no you di'int!
Arrogance and Mismanagement = Congress?
blackhat writes:
Also, we'll see residential zoning laws once again allow chickens and goats in the backyard.
blackhat | 11.19.08 - 11:22 am
My family had that conversation over dinner last night. If things start getting close to our worst-case scenario, the chicken coop is going up, and the small town Andy G. & Barney F. will either have to kill us or get out of the way.
Goats aren't in the works until they bow down to our coops...
Earlier Wednesday, Sen. Richard Shelby, the senior Republican on the Banking Committee, said he did not believe there would be a turnaround in industry until its top management is ousted and its manufacturing operations are revamped.
"I don't think they have immediate plans to change their model, which is a model of failure," Shelby said. He said he thinks a large part of any such bailout would amount to "life support" for the automakers.
"I believe their best option would be some type of Chapter 11 bankruptcy," he said. "These leaders have been failures and they need to go."
Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., disagreed with that, saying choosing the bankruptcy option would likely mean abrogation of labor contracts. "We already have too much union busting," Frank said.
irreverent writes:
hank to kashnkarry: tarpy has a little note from the Somalian Pirates Bank Holding Co
Just tell the Somalis don't f*ck with Jas.
An Indian navy warship has sunk a Somali pirate "mother ship" in the Gulf of Aden, the world's most treacherous waterway, after the renegades threatened to attack the frigate.
So do the big 3 get the money ? Anyone buying Ford at 1.40$ I was thinking maybe 10000 shares .
Credit enima writes:
So do the big 3 get the money ? Anyone buying Ford at 1.40$ I was thinking maybe 10000 shares .
Buy steel instead. Ford will suffer from all the crap sitting unsold and the various recalls. AKS will benefit
Ford is getting hammered worse than GM for some reason and I thought they were more economically "viable" than GM..up is down, left is right, not much makes sense now.
I must admit that I am embarrassed for America when Maxine Waters gets her mug in front of a camera. Are there no more capable individuals in her district, or are they doing too well financially selling crack to waste their time being public servants?
Are there no more capable individuals in her district, or are they doing too well financially selling crack to waste their time being public servants?
They certainly are not in polotics
Kona says sell writes:
Earlier Wednesday, Sen. Richard Shelby, the senior Republican on the Banking Committee, said he did not believe there would be a turnaround in industry until its top management is ousted
Shelby pumping his own book. Alabama has given away millions to lure foreign auto makers to their cracker laden, atavistic state. Also, Shelby got a sweetheart loan from Frannie for an Apt. complex he owns. Shelby should be drug out back and viscously beaten. I volunteer my services.
CR--
I hate to contradict you, but I specifically remember Chairman Bernanke saying just the other day that everything is getting better because of his actions. Why do you have to be so negative all the time? Do you really need to rely so heavily on facts? No one in government does.
Rick
Hoopajoops:
You said you're applying to FDIC legal? In which area of law are you currently practicing?
Just out of curiosity...
Mr. Market thinks there will be no bailout and the economy is headed for GD2...
The Great Unwinding continues...
Just tell the Somalis don't f*ck with Jas.
LOL. Must be a bunch of Somali-born-and-bred dopes on that ship.
bearly, her constituents are crips, bloods and snoop dog..He would at least try to get pot legal and tax it...
Thanks FFDIC. I was hoping the law side of things would be less travel-heavy but I guess I was wrong. I think you're right in that it is a once in a lifetime opportunity, career wise, to say that I worked for the FDIC during the Great Crisis.
viscously beaten: being beaten with jello
every report I hear is "This is the lowest XYZ reading since XYZ was tracked starting in 19XX..." this cannot be a good sign.
Plus, most of the indicators started after the Great Depression.
Credit Crisis indicator-
BAC is down big..
Comrade Kristina writes:
Ford is getting hammered worse than GM for some reason and I thought they were more economically "viable" than GM.
Comrade Kristina | 11.19.08 - 11:41 am
I've posed this question on this site before, and I haven't gotten an answer to what the consensus of the group is.
I understand why GM would be getting battered, but why F? Is it just a "Caught-in-the-Net" affect, or is F worse off than we are lead to believe?
Shelby pumping his own book.
Shleby must know that Suppliers will hurt which will hit the imports autos as well.
He also opposed the bank bailout. Explain that
Shelby is a puke, his whole state is a cesspool of illiterate, drooling rednecks with the lowest wages in the Union and people living in cardboard boxes...He'll be in line for a bailout before long.
Maxine Waters
Everyone shut up
Anonymous | 11.19.08 - 11:37 am | #
None of this would have happened if Waters had Frank's job. (LOL)
twm, skf, srs is tempting short right now with opex in 2 days..seems to be wear ppt starts along with spx futures...
Max,
disagree. GM actually does not have real cash on hand. He says we've got no money, stock goes to zero, no roll-over credit, and it's all liquidation from there.
He is lying and GM is about to go under.
He'll be in line for a bailout before long.
Probaly
"where you think the hedgies are putting their money?" [last thread]
[NOTE: Thanks to the pig, for once I didn't put the last post on a stale thread. Love that technology!]
Last week I was privy to an offering of 100MM for all-cash acquisition of agricultural land and equipment. Oil crops, geographically diversified: canola north, soy midwest, cotton and sunflower south and west, along with their rotations.
One of the interesting things was how they presented the crop/land analysis in net meal mega-calories and oil BTU per acre (products after the "crush", and after the energy input into production).
The strategy is obvious: all potentially "human consumption" crops, with several different plays: inflation hedge, low cost land holds, water rights (in some target areas), bio diesel, and, as they always say about land: "they're not making any more of it."
But it's all very different than the 20% a week targets with 30x leverage of the hedge funds. New world.
Along the lines of agri-business, the Fed districts put out periodic information, such as this one for the 11th:
http://www.dallasfed.org/research/agsurvey/2008/ag0803.pdf
that are interesting periodic -not real time- reading.
NY Times: Port of Long Beach filling up with unwanted Toyotas, Mercedes', other foreign cars.
A Sea of Unwanted Imports - NY Times
Also in the article:
Not far away, metal, cardboard, paper and plastic are piling up in the lot of Corridor Recycling. The company takes in refuse from around the country, then bales it for shipment to China. The cardboard is used to make new boxes while used shrink wrap is turned into shoe soles and insulation for sleeping bags and coats.
For much of this year, the company shipped about 25 containers a day, each filled with 23 tons of refuse to be recycled. But after the Olympics, demand slowed for recycled metal. In October, demand for everything else took a sharp downturn, and for the last two weeks the company has not shipped a single container.
The major culprit has been the Wall Street crooks and their Republican allies in the White House since Raygun.
Sure Clinton did a few bad things, but nothing on the scale of the damage down by Raygun and the 2 Bushes.
The chimp will be the next Hoover.
Happy Weird Wollie Wednesday to CR!
cd
Thinking the same thing. Like going long Steel or Toyota today...Can't buy calls in my account so upside is limited.
yaf-come on..no need for bottom sentence..
crispy&cole writes:
Credit Crisis indicator-
BAC is down big..
crispy&cole | 11.19.08 - 11:45 am
Since when is being down ~8.6% "big"? This is the new world, C&C. If it ain't double digits, it is only some "mild" volatility...
So who is still holding SKF? Mind sharing some of your profits with your poorer kinfolks?
There is no way to value Ford and even with a few bucks, they have demonstrated that all they know how to do is burn cash!
Two points:
Securitization does not change reported Net income
Ford Credit may need to further reduce the amount of finance receivables and operating leases it purchases or originates; this reduction could reduce Ford Credit's ongoing profits and adversely affect its ability to support the sale of Ford vehicles
YouTube - Max Keiser - Paulson Criminal - Counterfeiter - REVOLUTION!!
Some valuable suggestions here that may help Hank get a handle on the problem.
Even one suggestion on how to handle the hair problem.
[ understand why GM would be getting battered, but why F? Is it just a "Caught-in-the-Net" affect, or is F worse off than we are lead to believe]
My sense is an equity bet on F is a better than GM. F still has the potential to get taken private. GM is a ward of the US taxpayer, after common & preferreds get wiped out.
Here we are 15 months and 4 trill investing into our leveraged based economy trying to keep this balloon inflated, still on a weekly basis we turn over a new rock and find more trash. Not a perma bear or bull, but can read. We are in a paradigm shift out of leverage across the board. Where that's going to leave asset values remains to be seen.
So who is still holding SKF? Mind sharing some of your profits with your poorer kinfolks?
Not me, I got out at the oh-so-high price of 169. Anyone want to sign up for my bottom-caller spam letter? It's a bargain, I promise.
Thanks FFDIC. I was hoping the law side of things would be less travel-heavy but I guess I was wrong. I think you're right in that it is a once in a lifetime opportunity, career wise, to say that I worked for the FDIC during the Great Crisis.
Hoopajoops LTD | 11.19.08 - 11:43 am | #
Travel will depend on what you do for FDIC. Many lawyers travel to mediations, settlement conferences, training, trials, meetings w/other fed & state regulators, banks, etc. You can always get a medical restriction from your doctor. I knew one guy (supervisor)who refused travel unless his wife went along so he was grounded.
tim, waiting for big boys to get back from lunch..see where they take it..it could be brutal.. squeeze setup with a lot of newbie skf longs..
Didn't Paul Krugman say Steve jobs should run the Autos? Please don't quote him you were doing so well.
Comrade Kristina writes:
Ford is getting hammered worse than GM for some reason and I thought they were more economically "viable" than GM..up is down, left is right, not much makes sense now.
Must be the whole sell-the-news thing. This morning they unveiled their refreshed mid-size cars for Ford and Mercury. Standard and hybrid versions get better fuel economy than Accord/Camry competitors.
OT--Another sign of the times: I was in Austin Texas for SC08, but noticed on the front page of the local Austin newspaper yesterday that a outdoor weekend Woodstock like multi-band rock concert planned in nearby San Marcos was cancelled when NOBODY showed up! Organizers had thought they would get a 100,000 fans.
Cd-Well see but how high do you think SKF could go?
FFDIC, that medical restriction idea is gangbusters. I have just the "condition." Thanks for the tip. God bless federal employment.
Zoom Zoom
Mullaly didn't mention Hecho En Mexico
Austin Tex - thanks for sharing.
Is it just a "Caught-in-the-Net" affect, or is F worse off than we are lead to believe?
Ford probably is in the best shape in the NA market from a product/brand portfolio perspective. But from a cash perspective, they could be in worse shape. Or shorts are pushing it down.
Zoom Zoom writes:
NY Times: Port of Long Beach filling up with unwanted Toyotas, Mercedes',
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz. I'm counting on you lord, I must make amends. I worked hard all my lifetime with no help from my friends. So Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz.
tim-$250 or more sometime..I don't know about now..just waiting until after 1:00 EST
Buy a Caddie, get 100 shares of GM:
GM Shares At 66 Year Low, But You Can Get Some For Free! - The Consumerist
Mercedes quality is crap, don't pray for one. I was never so happy as the day i got rid of mine, pile of crap from beginning to end.
FFDIC, that medical restriction idea is gangbusters. I have just the "condition." Thanks for the tip. God bless federal employment.
Hoopajoops LTD | 11.19.08 - 11:53 am | #
You sound like a perfect FDIC fit!
Hoopajoops LTD,
Unless you are already Fed employee, you have to 1 year. They can fire you without cause in your first year. After that you're bullet proof until the budget get's cut, then you're riff'd. Knowing this, you go in, do what your told for the first year, then pull your travel restriction, then transfer out to another fed agency before the ramp down hits.
I think there is a possibility of consolidating all three into one and having one socialized auto maker without a union, and justice for all. That would also mean dumping 80% of insider mang and BODs, shaking out virtually all shareholders, and then going through years of re-org and re-tool to compete with Japan, Germany and China.
We really don't need 3 car manufacturing plants pumping out new depreciating models every 8 months. The model is broken and Ford to 20 cents...
After seeing the lows tested 3 times and then rocketing off those lows....I'm not expecting anything different for today's 3PM market opening
Comrade Kristina
Hate them too but that CLK Cabriolet is so pretty. Black on black
I see them 3+ years old for under 20k now.
Talking about BAC having a bad day, I think it is definitely a scary data point when SBUX--bearer of fancy, over-priced coffee--has a higher stock price than C.
I'm thinking of starting a NCAA March Madness bracket for December and rank stocks and see who is the bigger % gainer or lesser % loser. Have the "tournament" end on close of business Dec 13, 2008 to see who is the "winner".
FD: I'm long in physical PM and wishing I had kept my SRS, SDS, and SKF stocks longer.
GM actually does not have real cash on hand. He says we've got no money, stock goes to zero, no roll-over credit, and it's all liquidation from there.
So if you're the creditor, why not allow some grace? Liquidation means almost no recovery, so there's nothing to lose for the banks.
I can see a lot of options besides Chap 7 or bailout. These are smart people; I bet they can find an answer.
will we get to about 8110 again today?
....(post to be filed away)....
You guys understand that seeds dug out of fruit & veggies bought in your neighborhood grocery store won't grow anything....they must be open-pollenating seeds (like heritage or heirloom) not 2nd-generation seeds from store.....also, mini-cows are MUCH easier to care for and milk than goats IMO....
oh follow up:
Don't forget A-76. Another way to get riff'd out of your job when the study reveals that your work is no longer inherently governmental and you can be replaced by a contractor.
seriously.
TGT getting slammed. -6%.
FD: I'm long in physical PM and wishing I had kept my SRS, SDS, and SKF stocks longer.
I hear you brother sold skf at 19? and srs at 15?
Dave of SV (formerly just Dave writes:
"OT--Another sign of the times: I was in Austin Texas for SC08, but noticed on the front page of the local Austin newspaper yesterday that a outdoor weekend Woodstock like multi-band rock concert planned in nearby San Marcos was cancelled when NOBODY showed up! Organizers had thought they would get a 100,000 fans."
That's a sign of nothing but stupidity! Organizers had never done anything like it before and did no publicity. ACL fest in Sept was packed (77,000 per day). We will see what happens with SXSW in March.
zoom zoom:
saw Quantum of Solace this weekend with son and all the vehicles were Ford and the closing vehicle is a Ford Hydrogen vehicle - with the word "Hydrogen" in the letters on the front of the hood.
Agree that F is the best set of the three to survive and I'm thinking that once we get OB in the WH, they'll still be around.
As to buyouts of F, who'd buy?
Frankly, if the others go down, do you think that the country wants its last automaker to be bought by a foreign entity? Apologize if sounds xenophobic, but this is a key part of our industrial base.
I think that they'll get some money but the management is going to be toast and this beating is the set-up.
This bottom is holding. Need more sell volume to blow through it and it just aint there. Had a good chance the past 2 days and couldnt do it. Someone is buying in large volumes at 8200ish on the Dow and 830ish on the S&P. It aint me....
black star-thanks for that tip. I was clueless..
Don't forget A-76. Another way to get riff'd out of your job when the study reveals that your work is no longer inherently governmental and you can be replaced by a contractor.
seriously.
blackhat | Homepage | 11.19.08 - 11:58 am | #
In the 90s FDIC just closed entire offices leaving everybody unemployed except for a few who escaped to other destinations because they knew somebody. Think Chicago, Denver, Houston, Irvine, Atlanta, Boston...
Gary Ackerman
Had a classic comment on Private jets and Tip Cups
Love it Dogg
Just sold out of SRS at $203. It is like a printing press. Amazing how you can profit from macro factors that the masses won't accept. Thanks again to all for the wisdom (in many cases) on this site over the years.
Black-star Ranch,
that's a fine point about a cow, however unless you have between 10-20lbs of feed on hand, every day, 365 days a year, or are sitting on 2.5 acres of oat/legume/grass fields, I don't recommend a milk cow in anybodies backyard. However, the goat you can take over to the weeds growing on the side of the road which the local municipality has no money to cut...then you milk the goat for cheese, use the poop for fertilizer.
In a pinch, you eat roasted goat, and don't forget to save the leggings--leggings will be huge in the days to come.
Hey Pilgrim,
How long did you hold SRS. That thing gyrates like a... well you know
NOW it's big. The automakers can't survive, no matter how much money they get. It's just too late.
pilgrim-congrats...
Just bought 10000 shares of Ford at 1.39$
In a pinch, you eat roasted goat, and don't forget to save the leggings--leggings will be huge in the days to come.
My interest is piqued and the GOOG is not being helpful.
What are goat leggings?
seriously.
blackhat | Homepage | 11.19.08 - 11:58 am | #
In '91 FDIC involutarily transferred me from Houston to Franklin, Ma for union organizing. After 3 years I was forced to accept a DOWNGRADE and cut in pay to transfer back home to Dallas where my then 14 yo daughter lived w/her mom. My pay was stuck at the top of the downgraded range for 3-4 years until I filed a grievance which took a year or more to settle. Then, I was blacklisted. It goes on and on...
anon
Maybe lack of sellers?
If our fearless leaders don't get busy and do something, this economy is going to be comatose by the end of January.
Enough said.
Conjure says, "Have a nice day."
sp downgrades ambac again
S&P downgrades Ambac again, but shares rebound in late action - MarketWatch
What are goat leggings?
I'm thinking Barbarossa, but I'd be pleased to stand corrected....
.
I bought at $87 around summer 2008, sold at $180 a few weeks ago, bought again at $136 a couple weeks ago and just sold at $203. Over 200% return. I hope it goes back down below $130 for another run.
It goes on and on...
Sounds like you're not much of an asskisser.
I suffer from the same problem. Finally realized that I'm better off building my own company. I work twice as hard, but I'll live longer.
MP-Conjure- you too!
A general notice to those interested in agriculture and husbandry. Dept. of Ag's Leaving on one Acre is pretty basic text, not very detailed, but gives enough starter info that you can decide if you really want to buy the goat/cow/chickens, etc...
there are other texts like the Contrary Farmer, etc... which also provide good advice...and
for general humorous survival tips, I recommend Come Back Alive.
If our fearless leaders don't get busy and do something,
You slay me, mp.
cd out on a limb with a noose... we go higher. ;+
The market can't find a bottom until I see Erin Burnett look up at the board and do this:
YouTube - TV Presenter Pukes and Continues to take calls !!
Only then can we start talking about a rally.
Looks like C may sleep after all...
with the fishes!
F halted ?
stuck at -25% ?
watch this it is financial related insurance and all.
YouTube -
Thaksin: Probably. The SEC announced a month or so ago they would apply selective halts on any stocks that were going dow
Many people are waiting till the market does a major flush to get back in long
Yep. And according to Conjure, it's the end of Jan 09.
Paulson is done playing. Bush is eating potato chips, watching TV, waiting for Jan 20 so he can go home. Obama can't do anything until then, and it's not likely that he'll implement major fiscal policy on his first day.
So come Jan 09, either it will be a great time to buy in or it won't matter.
.
F still trading on my ticker
o still trading down 24.99% now
Looks like Citi is finally being marked to market. When will BAC and WFC?
Yah, Citi is a mess and it is a race to zero:
Citi to take net write-downs of $3 billion during the fourth quarter
Re: Oct 15, 2007: Chief Executive Officer Charles Prince, who has overseen a 17 percent drop in the company's stock this year, said momentum "continues very strong" in most of the company's businesses. Since Prince became CEO in 2003, Citigroup shares are virtually unchanged, compared with a 29 percent jump at Bank of America Corp., the second-largest U.S. bank by assets.
sorry yes, F is still trading but i am seeing weird patterns on my blooomberg.
IT stuck in there for -25% for a long time and started rising quickly.
Same weird trading patterns are going on with C. Stuck at -12% for a long time.
Its blood bath today for sure
RE: Citi - hoocoocanode?
Why does Ford feel like IndyMac and Wamu and Lehman and bear, and AIG and Fannie???
Does anybody here think that IBM is going to get crushed by a cutback in capex/B2B spend?
I just loaded up on some April $65 puts. Let's gamble!
Kona
They all need a gov't takeover and they are all below 2 bucks.
can someone confirm the news of C options being written for $5 ?
The meek shall inherit the earth. Meek being third world poor living in remote areas.
C might be trading for 5 dollars today before it's over.
C down to $5 ?
That would do nicely for this weeekend barbeque at Pandits house
""A seven-month (FDIC insured) CD at BofA will give you 2.4%, yet people are buying 3-month treasuries at 0.1%?!?!?!?""
"Many people are waiting till the market does a major flush to get back in long. If you don't know when the flush is going to be you don't want to lock your money into a CD."
Certain banks are offering very good rates on money market/savings accounts. I'm earning 4% APY in 2 different banks, with all holdings FDIC insured.
In another portfolio, I've got a guy laddering into very short term CDs (2 months typically) with yields in the 3.75 to 4.25 range.
Most of these funds had been in a Treasury MM fund, but I had to find some better returns.
S&P and Naz dipped lower than yesterday, Dow about +100 from yesterday's low
a quality index
yahoo! = Woohoo?
13-WEEK TREASURY BILL remains on high alert, as short term rates are no longer related to yield, this is a matter of hoping for preservation of capital. The cost of being on the sidelines is going up as inflation eats away gains and of course cash flow in a liquidity trap amounts to stalemate:
Also see and feel: Zugzwang
Zugzwang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The term zugzwang is frequently used in chess. A player whose turn it is to move who has no move that does not worsen their position is said to be in zugzwang
Also see, hear and experience:
O BROTHER WHERE ART THOU - Constant Sorrow
YouTube
- Broadcast Yourself.?
YouTube - O BROTHER WHERE ART THOU - Constant Sorrow
We're in a tight spot here!
Dow is essentially a 28.5 stock index at this point. Even when it drops 10-15% in a day, GM can at most do about 5-6 points of damage to the index number. C is rapidly approaching that level. It is down significantly today and yet, is only removing about 9 points from the index. Combined today, GM & C remove about 17.5 points. Something to think about since as the pps on C/GM goes to zero the other 28 stocks on the index have their relative contribution boosted.
I do seem to recall Barry Ritholtz doing a post about S&P 500 companies that no longer pass the price per share test to be included.
Goodbye sp
Basel Too writes:
What are goat leggings?
See Dragnet with Tom Hanks and Dan Akroyd.
You'll get it then.
I'm thinking Barbarossa, but I'd be pleased to stand corrected....
I'm thinking the Dragnet movie, but I could be wrong about that too.
[After seeing the lows tested 3 times and then rocketing off those lows....I'm not expecting anything different for today's 3PM market opening]
We bounced off 830 but volume was anemic. If we go down past 816 we get to the next level down...
blackhat writes:
for general humorous survival tips, I recommend Come Back Alive.
blackhat | 11.19.08 - 12:06 pm
So if I'm going to die from lack of humor, I need to get that book? What if I'm too jolly? Is there a book to help be survive that fit?
blackhat, I owe you a Coke.
If our fearless leaders don't get busy and do something, this economy is going to be comatose by the end of January.
I've been tracking state revenue numbers for some time. Based on sales and corporate income tax, the real economy has been fugly since the collapse of Lehman.
I'd hate to see what comatose is going to look like.
@blackhat:
"or are sitting on 2.5 acres of oat/legume/grass fields"
And 2.5 acres per head is not the same as 2.5 acres for your one head, right? Without time for a given piece of land to rest a little, the manure and graze-down will turn that grass into crappy dirt pretty quickly.
I second the notion of goats for (sub)urban farming. But I'd add some geese to the yard. Peck apart and de-worm the droppings.
"...He's ok with spending money on the Big 3 because he's assuming we're going to stop war spending and move away from employment-related health care. That'd free up billions..."
One more time: Budgetary cost of the wars in Iraq and Afganistan per month?
I know the answer because I've typed it so many times.
The cost of this bailout dwarfs war costs. The dollar value of guaranteed loans to auto makers over the last year would fund the wars for a year.
I don't care about the constant lies. I'm just sad the media burying them.
....UR right....but the cow eats the same as the goats do and DOESN'T jump, dig, screw everything in site, raise hell with your garden, nor make a total mess of its environment - she's pretty much an "everything is OK" kinda mammal not to mention a provider of 600 lbs of beef every year and a walking compost machine. But then my milk cow is also the only female around here that listens to me as well - that's the clincher!
Congratulation! $200+ is terrific!
Chickens. Best urban animal for food/fert/weeding and entertainment.
Plus you can start a chicken circus.
Hoopajoops LTD writes:
Thanks FFDIC. I was hoping the law side of things would be less travel-heavy but I guess I was wrong. I think you're right in that it is a once in a lifetime opportunity, career wise, to say that I worked for the FDIC during the Great Crisis.
Hoopajoops LTD | 11.19.08 - 11:43 am | #
Yeah....once in a lifetime change at gaining a stigma that will follow you to eternity...when the FDIC gets exposed to the great unwashed. Might use some self preservation and avoid that because lawyers already have it tough in the public opinion arena.
Just bought 10000 shares of Ford at 1.39$
You are not going to get any sleep today
its at 1.31$
you lost $1000 for nothing
Austin Tex,
You are correct per head. And as I understand it 2.5 is the lower limit. Depending on the area (fertile verses marginal) it can go as high as 5 acres for moderately fertile with moderate rainfall to 10 acres for marginal.
Geese is also a great idea.
But again, everyone must keep in mind the cost of feed. Not insignificant if you aren't growing the good supply.
Did some audit work at CCOW. The former management had some slue. The new management has no clue. It really is shocking. One audit firm refused them as a client due to management incompetence. If an accounting firm turns down huge fees, you know there is a big problem.
Sunoco downgraded at Deutsche Bank from Hold to Sell. Valuation call, based on lower expected demand and oil prices.
That should be, "some clue"
Basel 2-cool interactive state budget shortfall map..
- NY Times
Thaksin writes:
you lost $1000 for nothing
Thaksin | 11.19.08 - 12:12 pm
You forgot the mantra for the past 20+ years: "It is only a loss when you cash out." Repeat and rinse as necessary.
However, I agree that F isn't a value buy unless you think it is going private, and if it was going private, rest assured that people more informed than us would be gobbling it up for the cost of a McD's $1 value meal burger...
by the way, i just can't type today.
can't stop thinking about goat-leggings...
Re:Chickens. Best urban animal for food/fert/weeding
Chickens. Best urban animal for food/fert/weddings
Black Star--
I agree, Goats are a hassle. Although the children were traumatized, I was happy when the mountain lion finally got the last 2--
yagij writes:
So who is still holding SKF? Mind sharing some of your profits with your poorer kinfolks?
No SKF here, but sold my overnight FAZ position this morning (+15%). Still holding my SRS@151.
can't stop thinking about goat-leggings..."
never got an answer on that.
cd writes:
Basel 2-cool interactive state budget shortfall map..
cd | 11.19.08 - 12:15 pm
Awesome find!
Thanks for the link!
Just add a few zero's to the GM/Ford/Chrysler accounts. Get on with it.
Poor Mugabe actually has to print the paper.
Goats and cars. How appropriate.
For Presidential comparisons, look at 'Only Yesterday' by F. Lewis and his description of Harding: good looking genial figure head, incompetent not too bright and depending on subordinates, tremendous governmental scandals. Used to be tops in the list of worst Presidents but I think we have a new winner for the next 230 years.
crispy-auto advertising cutbacks..
Big Three automakers curtail advertising dollars - MarketWatch
My company has kille application on the web for dealers..really only thing working for them..it's still brutal...20 dealer group-40K per store ad budget..all 20 split 75k now....
I am reading articles on the Big Three Request for Bailout and I am stll wondering.
Why is no-one talking about the financial aspects of the CDS? GM alone is $1t.
Has the Dominoe Theory of CDS been dispeled when I was not looking?
...yep, I hated that they'd wipe out a 4000 sq ft. garden during an afternoon nap! MilkShake just moos for the tomato clippings
O/T I have been in the local HD (Leesburg Va) 4 times in the last week at circa 10am. Very empty. Today I needed a few 2"x4"x10' pressure treated boards. There were none. Nor 8'ers. I asked them to get some from out back as I could see none on the upper racks. The kid opened the back door and the entire apron behind the store was virtually empty asphalt. Normally there are about 20 or more 18 wheeler loads of extra supplies back there. There was no lumber at ALL. Just a couple of pickup loads of drain pipe. I said, "Where is your stock?". He just shook his head and looked rueful. On my way down to the electrical department I could smell the faint but unmistakeable odor of decaying flesh. "What irony!" I thought. Dead man walking.
13-week still in danger zone, and with oil falling and the de-stability of the auto industry, a recession, TARP failure, every financial model broken, VIX headed higher, yields dropping, children screaming, Buffett bailing, XMAS sales will be seriously impacted and Obama will come to office in the midst of a deflationary crash.
^IRX: Basic Chart for 13-WEEK TREASURY BILL - Yahoo! Finance
"Although the children were traumatized, I was happy when the mountain lion finally got the last 2--"
I knew of a Quaker family living in the Coast Range of BC who lost some livestock to a mountain lion, and I believe it was goats they lost.
yagij-np...
Has the Dominoe Theory of CDS been dispeled when I was not looking?
Neuromancer
No it hasn't.
Meanwhile, General Motors Corp.s credit-default swaps reflected a cost of $7.5 million upfront with a $500,000 annual payment to protect $10 million in bonds. (It cost about $7.15 million on Friday.) Headed into the opening bell, GM shares were traded at $2.91, down 5.8%, while Ford Motor Co. was down 1.8% to $1.65 a share.
A seven-month (FDIC insured) CD at BofA will give you 2.4%, yet people are buying 3-month treasuries at 0.1%?!?!?!?
Guys, don't you remember that famous phrase "What's good for General Motors is good for the country"??? Obviously then massive bailouts are good for the country!
Mike in AZ: Actually right now it's at 0.06% ---- and FDIC is only insured up to $250,000...plenty of investors out there with much more than that
Which will FED / Treasury save when all the big ones are failing on the same day
C
MS
GS
GM
F
HIG
Anecdotal: Just got an email from a retired Navy commander I know who needs to move, looking for a job, has a few job offers, but says he is 60 - 80 k upside down on his house in southern Maryland.
cd writes:
Basel 2-cool interactive state budget shortfall map..
>
When does Texas get a circle?
"MilkShake just moos for the tomato clippings"
Wow, that's a great image! Cows, and also sheep, are just great animals. Goats, yeah, not so much.
When I was a little boy, an uncle had a diary farm with 30 or so Holstein cows and the attendant calves/heifers. Other than the twice a day/365 milking and feeding, it was about as idyllic as possible. If a little remote.
Failure List of Black Wednesday
C & F
Failure list of dark Thursday
MS and GM
"A seven-month (FDIC insured) CD at BofA will give you 2.4%, yet people are buying 3-month treasuries at 0.1%?!?!?!?"
Many people are waiting till the market does a major flush to get back in long. If you don't know when the flush is going to be you don't want to lock your money into a CD.
GMs market cap is less than 1.5B
I think some loony Russian oil baron can buy it easily
see some red lose some green.
Why buy F or Gm. Look at AIG and FRED and Fannie. Dilutio
LOL!!!
Headline at WSJ.com - MSFT no deal for yahoo!
Headline at Yahoo - Msft still interested
Try this logic:
The auto makers are failing and need to pay higher premiums for CDS, yet Wall Street, who issues and plays with CDS derivatives, is failing and has to pay higher premiums for their CDS, so they rely on The Treasury, who is failing and is in the process of losing out AAA country rating, so they are paying higher premiums -- yet, all these players want more taxpayer money to pay off the bad bets, yet, many of the taxpayers out there are failing because of taking on too much leverage and thus they have less money to give to the government to fund this game. The system and all models are broken.... this is a systemic collapse on a global basis and it does seem as if America will have to socialize the auto industry, health care, banking, insurance and essentially modify our form of government.
Can bust through the bottom. These sellers got nothin'. Classic. This effort is so weak. Is that all you got!!??
Just got spammed by Chase for a home loan; the subject line is "Chase is strong and dependable" -- hmmmm...Chase has the same ad man that the male enhancement product has...
Citigroup is in full death spiral mode!
Will C file for bk before GM?
Who wants to do buyouts now. Just wait for the companies to go bankrupt and pick up the useful parts at fire sale prices with a fraction of the liability of a traditional buyout.
A seven-month (FDIC insured) CD at BofA will give you 2.4%, yet people are buying 3-month treasuries at 0.1%?!?!?!?
A couple of factors:
liquidity: don't know how easy it is to collateralize those BAC CD's.
Capital requirements: treasuries are zero % risk-weighted assets, CDs are not regardless of the FDIC backing.
To you and me, those factors are not significant, but to banks they are huge.
One more thing and then to some work.
Long time ago someone pointed out one basic economic reason why Amish farms and communities are perennially prosperous: virtually no unamortized capital cost, and, baring sustained drought or natural disasters, the energy input (kids, horses, oxen) is less than the energy output (crop calories less feed for kids, horses and oxen).
In other words, no leverage, either financial or operational.
GS now in the $50s. Hank must be going apeshit.
ot much time for posting today, but what happened at 10am to glod and the dollar? very matterhorn, must have been very large trades and covering.
24-hour Spot Chart - Gold
INO Equities Stocks Indexes - U.S $ INDEX (NYBOT:DX) Price Chart and Quote
bearly this guy sold back in September. you'll see.
anon writes:
Can bust through the bottom. These sellers got nothin'. Classic. This effort is so weak. Is that all you got!!??
I don't think nearly 50% down YoY is weak. Depends on your definition of weak.
That map was nice above, I'm looking at election maps and other maps now for fun:
2008 Election Map and Electoral Vote Map: NPR
Re: - NY Times
Lugnutz coming loose. Wheels wobbly.
This sucka's goin' down.
Is today the day that we finally put the Bulls down for a while?
We have some momentum, and that three time low is being approached with some urgency. Are we in a short squeeze trap or possible free fall on the other side of the low?
C yield approaching 9%. Who can resist that?
And with them buying back $17B of SIV assets....did I hear BOTTOM?!
30 year bond @ 3.99%
"The 1% decrease represents the fraction of cars piled up at the dock.
"http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2...long- beach.html"
--Bruce
Interesting. I wonder if Rob Dawg can see the storage areas at Port Hueneme from his perch in VenCo. I remember seeing acres and acres of brand new Mazdas stored nearby during the last recession.
Things you CAN plant from store bought food: potato eyes and squash seeds.
only 271 visitors ? Where are the rest ?
SELLING ?
Ok ,then fine
Hank got his sell his his $500M worth of GS capital gains tax free when he took the appointment as Sec of Treas . He did waht he could for his friends with TARP but can't do any more. Will they turn state's evidence on him ?
bearly writes:
GS now in the $50s. Hank must be going apeshit.
bearly | 11.19.08 - 12:34 pm | #
OT-mm's coming back from lunch in t-25..where do we go from here...
I just get this overwhelming feeling that today is just like last Thurs --- test the support (820-30) for an extended period, break through, slingshot back up
Since the dominoe theory of CDS was the winning play for Bear and AIG, you would think GM would be running around at the hearing shouting "Systemic Risk, Systemic Risk. Financial Collapse."
I mean, being so pedestrian as to say the economic rough patch is hurting them. I mean, sheesh, cmon.
Dick and Bert are up for indictment today. Who would have thought they could do anything wrong that was this serious?