I would make the CEOs buy in. I would say, you know, the United States government is willing to put in X dollars, but we're going to have you put in a certain percentage of your net worth right along with us. We'll give you more upside, but you're going to lose if we lose.
I will go on record now thinking this crisis will be so deep that it will either kill Buffett or be life threatening to his health given his age and steep potential losses sustained and ahead. The stress is going to take out many others as well and many not as old or wealthy as Buffett.
Senate Agriculture Committee Chairman Tom Harkin, D- Iowa, plans to introduce a bill Thursday that would force all over-the-counter derivatives, including credit-default swaps, onto regulated futures exchanges.
The bill, if eventually made law, would essentially mean that all derivatives would be defined and traded as futures contracts. In forcing them to be traded this way, it would grant the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission sole regulatory jurisdiction. It would also put to rest recent questions over which federal regulator should have oversight of complex swap products.
Making the CEOs buy in sounds good as a sound byte. And it might work for a medium-sized business and a CEO in the $200K range who's still in mid-career and identifies with his company.
But these guys will do fine whether or not the car companies fall. They've already got money in the bank. Why should they endanger that?
Warren has a good point--the CEO needs a real stake in the success.
Apparently in early Rome they had a lot of trouble with stone structures falling down. Eventually they came up with the idea that the engineer should stand under the arch when the supports were removed after construction. Failures diminished rapidly.
"Unemployment will be 12% at the peak, and nearly 20% in the worst hit states."
Nobody really knows how bad unemployment was in the great depression; all the figures are estimates. But I imagine that 20 percent would be great-depression territory.
I should add that my mother and her sisters and brothers, all teens, stayed "employed" during the Great Depression with jobs that paid little more than room and board. So besides employment rates, consider the quality of jobs that are available. Absent gov't stimulus, maybe not so good.
I expect a lot of resistance at the DOW 7,528 level because it was the 2002 low, and breaking that would send the market straight back to 1997 levels
mykillk | Homepage | 11.21.08 - 2:10 pm | #
Buffett's been walking around thinking he was me for years. Now he's toast. Not sure whether I'll let him through the pearly gates or not. He's pissed me off.
You can diss all you want about buffett all you want, He is one of the worlds riches men for a reason.
I agree with making the CEO's put skin in the games. I would also ask the UAW and everyone else to put skin in the games. You want a bailout, then you are going to assist or face BK.
All of this is mute till C is resolved anyway. Remianing Below $5 is going to generate massive selling and a run on the bank. Look for another Sunday special from the Government.
The new new new is going to be a return to the old days. Drag out your Graham & Dodd books, they are going to be useful again.
I read "The Intelligent Investor" a couple years ago. At the time it read more like a history book than an investment guide. I'll have to crack it open again.
What are the implications of Citi failure??? Is that not a complete collapse of our banking system? Could our government do anything about it? Granted, they can start selling off assets. That solves cash flow. But it seems to me that the problem is balance sheet.
"Down Goes Frazier" was from the George Foreman/Joe Frazier fight from 1973 in Jamaica. Foreman knocked Frazier down 29 times in the first 10 seconds of the fight.
"Is anybody buying TBT here? I just put in an order."
Gavshire Hathaway
I'm holding off, waiting for a confirmation of today's action. Reason is I expect some "Shock & Awe" over the weekend. I'll probably miss the big move, but I don't see the kind of action that would convince me to move right now.
Gavshire Hathaway writes:
Is anybody buying TBT here? I just put in an order.
Gavshire Hathaway | 11.21.08 - 2:19 pm | #
I took a bit this morning, following Rich like the guru-loving sheep I am. I won't pretend I fully understand the bet, but it does sorta seem like I took out a CDS on my own well being by betting against Treasuries/USD. As in, will the dollars even buy anything if my bet pays off?
irony is that american politicians and citizens spent hundreds of billions of dollars to kill afghans and iraqs who never did them harm.
never broke into their homes, never stole their cars, never assaulted or raped them. there has been virtually no objection to this.
while on the other hand they turn their backs on their own citizens employed in the auto industry with a savagery and viciousness that is breathtaking.
Leviticus 4:8 He shall remove all the fat from the bull of the sin offeringthe fat that covers the inner parts or is connected to them
Deuteronomy 28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.
guest, we could look at that another way. The autoworkers gladly sent their kids to kill innocent iraqis and afghanis who never did anything to them and are now crying boo hoo because they want the increasingly unemployed of this country to support them with a permanent salary the rest of their lives.
Jerusalem hath grievously sinned; therefore she is removed: all that honoured her despise her, because they have seen her nakedness: yea, she sigheth, and turneth backward.
I'll concede that you could be right on TBT short term. But I'm willing to take that risk -- it also provides a hedge against a market bounce off these levels. That is a primary concern of mine right now.
Executive buy in is common in PE firms - what Buffett is suggesting is not a new or radical idea.
I've seen guys worth $25MM asked to put more than half of their net worth into deals if they want to be 'part of equity'... and if they want to be part of senior management they have to part of equity - quid pro quo.
And the upside from these things is huge - 100% returns frequently over a few years IF executed well. That's why the PEs ask managers to have real skin in the game or go work for WalMart.
The other party who needs to pony up some skin would be the unions... if they want their future pensions & benies then buy in boys.
A prepack BK is always an answer.
BTW - if the gov't took this tough of a position w/ both mgmt & the union - I wouldn't be near as opposed to our gov't buying a sizable equity stake.
No 'loans' though - dilute equity to zero & make unions & management provide skin too. That might work.
I'm amazed Warren is still kicking. His diet is cherry coke and hamburgers. How does he not have diabetes? I predict his health will diminish quickly when it does.
I like GLD over TBT for now. Was in TBT for a while but got out with the flight to quality bid in treasuries. To me GLD and TBT are roughly the same bet right now.
With respect to the companies being discussed, how do you prepackage a bankruptcy of GM, Chrysler, or C? More happy talk to me. These companies need major restructuring. They all need CH 7, IMO.
speed:
farewell and adieu to you
fair spanish ladies
farewell and adieu to you
ladies of spain
for we've received orders
for to sale back to boston
and so nevermore shall we see you
agai
Umm... these are mutually exclusive, no? --Basel Too
Semantics. To rephrase, the only way to restructure all the assets and liabilities that are GM is to sell everything. Then what was once GM will have been "restructured" into the market.
Somali Pirates in Discussions to Acquire Citigroup
By Andreas Hippin
November 20 (Bloomberg) -- The Somali pirates, renegade Somalis known for hijacking ships for ransom in the Gulf of Aden, are negotiating a purchase of Citigroup.
The pirates would buy Citigroup with new debt and their existing cash stockpiles, earned most recently from hijacking numerous ships, including most recently a $200 million Saudi Arabian oil tanker. The Somali pirates are offering up to $0.10 per share for Citigroup, pirate spokesman Sugule Ali said earlier today. The negotiations have entered the final stage, Ali said.
"You may not like our price, but we are not in the business of paying for things. Be happy we are in the mood to
offer the shareholders anything," said Ali.
The pirates will finance part of the purchase by selling new Pirate Ransom Backed Securities. The PRBS's are backed by the cash flows from future ransom payments from hijackings in the Gulf of Aden. Moody's and S&P have already issued their top investment grade ratings for the PRBS's.
Head pirate, Ubu Kalid Shandu, said: "We need a bank so that we have a place to keep all of our ransom money. Thankfully, the dislocations in the capital markets has allowed us to purchase Citigroup
at an attractive valuation and to take advantage of TARP capital to grow the business even faster."
Shandu added, "We don't call ourselves pirates. We are coastguards and this will just allow us to guard our coasts better."
*CITI IN TALKS WITH SOMALI PIRATES FOR POSSIBLE CAPITAL INFUSION
*WILL REQUIRE ALL CITI EMPLOYEES TO WEAR PATCH OVER ONE EYE
*SOMALIAN PIRATES APPLY TO BECOME BANK TO ACCESS TARP
*PAULSON: TARP PIRATE EQUITY IS AN `INVESTMENT,' WILL PAY OFF
*KASHKARI SAYS `SOMALI PIRATES ARE 'FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND' '
*Moody's upgrade Somali Pirates to AAA
*HUD SAYS SOMALI DHOW FORECLOSURE PROGRAM HAD `VERY LOW' PARTICPATION
*SOMALI PIRATES IN DISCUSSION TO ACQUIRE CITIBANK
*FED OFFICIALS: AGGRESSIVE EASING WOULD CUT SOMALI PIRATE RISK
FED AGREED OCT. 29 TO TAKE `WHATEVER STEPS' NEEDED FOR SOMALI PIRATES Rating :
(19 Ratings)
A baited banker thus desponds,
From his own hand foresees his fall,
They have his soul, who have his bonds;
'Tis like the writing on the wall. - Johnathan Swift
Well, let's put it this way: Buffet's solution is better than just handing the auto companies money, but it's not much of a better solution than allowing them to get what they deserve: bankruptcy.
Warren knows things are nasty and about to get nastier. His problem is he thinks the aftermath of this current mess will be like all the downturns. Just a return to Normalcy. Me thinks he's wrong. Guys like Warren all have that infamous "last 100 year" dow chart on their office wall.
I find it amazing that more people on this board believe in the PPT than me. Hell, I've done a better job than the PPT in the past couple months. The Phillies won the World Series and an African American was elected President. Please, give me some credit and stop this PPT rhetoric...
Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great!
She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit,
and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.
For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality,
and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her,
and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.
Oooh, Puritan moralizing and magical attitude toward diet. -ByzRuins
Whatever. I'm not religious and I took a nutrition class. And I never said WB cared that he was getting old, nor that it would be pleasant. I'm just surprised he's held in this long.
hank to tarpy: (hank has his b&d gear on today) thwak! thwak! (tickles her bottom with the cat o' nine tails) humiliation, I'll show you humiliation,you tramp
Ticker Tape of Doom - I read it twice, then had to read it myself to believe it. Jeeze. Un f-ing believable. What's next? San Jose becomes a bank - followed by the Bank of CA, formerly the State of California.
gimme a break, you mean Warren believes that the Big 3 shouldn't get the kind of deal that he's gotten over the years? some people should know when to shut up
SOMALIAN PIRATES, which has about $2 trillion of assets, has fallen for nine of the last 10 days on concern more companies and consumers will default as the economy worsens.
Ticker Tape of Doom - I read it twice, then had to read it myself to believe it. Jeeze. Un f-ing believable. What's next? San Jose becomes a bank - followed by the Bank of CA, formerly the State of California.
Speed | 11.21.08 - 3:02 pm | #
I should add that my mother and her sisters and brothers, all teens, stayed "employed" during the Great Depression with jobs that paid little more than room and board.
That's funny because I'm a professional living in Vancouver CA and my above average income pays for little more than the exorbitant room and board people pay in this city.
Zero, my son, It means you should go to Vegas and stay at the Wynn before it tanks. Its a great place and I'd love to tell you more, but you know, what goes on in Vegas stays in Vegas... If Moses spills the beans he's a dead man.
Borkafatty, why do you betray me my son? Where has the PPT been the past 45 days? Hiding up your fat ass? Dont mess with God or I'll f-ck you up.
When Uncle H. Paulson alternates between indulging and cossetting his little ones to beating and starving them, will the world wonder when they all grow up sociopaths? Hobos and grifters?
"Speed writes:
Ticker Tape of Doom - I read it twice, then had to read it myself to believe it. Jeeze."
I suspected it all along. I think KFC is next. Ever go there? after people eat the food, the lines to the bathroom are always long because they need to make a deposit.
Paulson is not happy with C. He thought he was getting the weekend off now that the TARP is frozen. Hope he didn't have any plans. There is no bank large enough to take C over. C will have to be broken up and parcelled out, a huge job.
Warren Buffett's actuarial life expectancy is currently somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 year. Hamburgers aren't a threat to life expectancy at this point.
The book of Revelation has a lot to do with the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D., the Roman Empire, and the Catholic Mass. And, also something to do with the end times too. But in order to explain everything you need backgrounds in hebrew, theology, and basically poetry. Don't listen to the wingnuts.
Somalian Pirate Backed Securities are in a lot of money market funds now!
Everybody is grappling with what they call redemption getting your money out, says Timothy W. Mungovan, the groups co-chair.
Last Month, $40 Billion Pulled From Hedge Funds
Funds unwinding positions amid the looming redemption requests and increased difficulty in borrowing money have been among the reasons cited for the stock market's swoon over the past two months.
Looks to me like the "market" has figured out that the toxic waste of level 3 assets and cds's liabs on the financials balance sheets was more than just rumor.
I suspected it all along. I think KFC is next. Ever go there? after people eat the food, the lines to the bathroom are always long because they need to make a deposit.
Elvis | 11.21.08 - 3:05 pm | #
Sir, would you like to apply for a credit card while you wait for your order today?
yes, I watched a little, incredible, one guy gets it, none of the others do, a recitation of the conventional wisdom about how the markets are going to be reflated, with a turnaround that will be fast and furious
how many times do you have to hit someone in the head with a hammer before they say, stop?
"well Japan long bond got down to 1% yield, and GD I was the same"
Isn't the difference this time that the US has to keep borrowing massive amounts to fund our deficit and our liquidity programs?
I don't know about GD I, but I thought the Japanese were net savers when their bubble blew. Pretty sure we were not a massive debtor nation back in the 30s.
"ROTFLMAO! I think your not factoring in recent stresses and the the losses which create heartache and hear burn (cash burn too).
Kona"
When Warren loses money, it is really just charities and poor people losing money after he dies. If you root against Warren, you route against those charities and poor people and you accrue bad karma. You are warrened.
hmmm.....many of the comments about Buffett are telling us more about the commentators than Buffett.
One of the ways to get successful is to learn from those that are. For instance, Buffett has a long time horizon, but that seems to elude many commentators.
Expect Buffett to have excellent investments that will pay off years after he has finally retired from Berkshire.
There has to be something going on with 20-year notes, bonds, securities or something, cause the shape of the curve is inverted and I'm telling yah, something at right!
halbhh writes:
hmmm.....many of the comments about Buffett are telling us more about the commentators than Buffett.
One of the ways to get successful is to learn from those that are. For instance, Buffett has a long time horizon, but that seems to elude many commentators.
Very happy to see Richardson in the room, though Commerce is a non-traditional choice for a guy with his resume. Replacing Geithner at the NY Fed will be tricky.
My recommendation Warren it to take the auto company management and board of directors, strip them naked, parade them threw the snow then mow them down with machine guns. Take their money and invest that in these failed companies.
Does this make the highly experienced and effective Mr. Warsh second in command and at the top of the list as people to replace Bernanke next year? Why not, America is toast...
Werner(Excellent) writes: So, he gives her a platform to attack him in 2012 ? He must be nuts. (or very very weak)
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". She needs to be in the tent pissing out, or else she'll be outside pissing in.
Note this is a very demanding job that involves a lot of foreign travel. A lot of those trips with her name attached are going to be VERY disappointing. He can arrange for a costly and showy public failure on her part any time he wants.
She is also an excellent manipulator and she and Bill know all the people they'll be visiting.
By '012, he'll either be unassailable or unelectable.
This seems like a solid choice to me. American politics is very much a parliamentary system. Some people are just GOING to have ministries.
Obama needs Hil so he can snap Pelosi's little chicken neck for gainsaying him over the auto bailout issue. The true measure of his ability to be rule will be how swiftly and surely he dispatches Pelosi.
"Obama needs Hil so he can snap Pelosi's little chicken neck for gainsaying him over the auto bailout issue. The true measure of his ability to be rule will be how swiftly and surely he dispatches Pelosi."
"I would make the CEOs buy in. I would say, you know, the United States government is willing to put in X dollars, but we're going to have you put in a certain percentage of your net worth right along with us. We'll give you more upside, but you're going to lose if we lose."
Warren, that's crazy talk. What's next, full disclosure of what TARP funds are being use for? How on earth will they afford their 300k vacations in the middle of financial armageddon? These guys have worked their collective arses off to drive these companies into the ground.
sorry you're putting in your retirement papers with GM. But the best thing that can happen to the Big Three is that they all go BK and start new. Unfortunately, you and all your co-workers will lose your outrageous and unjustified benefits and pensions, and the company will be bought and brought back to prosperity with competetive and justifiable wages.
Regarding the loss of your retirement pension...too bad. You wouldn't be the first and won't be the last.
I'll bet GM managers would prefer bankruptcy over buying personally buying more shares of GM stock. Thus Buffet's plan would expose exactly what GM's own CEO's think $25B will do - nothing. GM will fail even if you hand over 5x what they ask.
Including Buffett.
What does Buffett know. Just an over the hill insurance exec. Right Elvis?
Is Mr. Buffett considered employed?
I would make the CEOs buy in. I would say, you know, the United States government is willing to put in X dollars, but we're going to have you put in a certain percentage of your net worth right along with us. We'll give you more upside, but you're going to lose if we lose.
Good for Buffett!
I hate when Buffett talks economics. He doesn't know anything about macroeconomics, even by his own admission. He is a stock/company guy.
MW: And that's why fighter pilots are given gold sovereign coins in the survival kits and not any paper currency
umero uno
I will go on record now thinking this crisis will be so deep that it will either kill Buffett or be life threatening to his health given his age and steep potential losses sustained and ahead. The stress is going to take out many others as well and many not as old or wealthy as Buffett.
DOW falling off the cliff again!!!
If only logic was the ruling concept....
Did Buffett just kill the rally? All hail the Oracle.
"...We'll give you more upside, but you're going to lose if we lose.
Not gonna happen.
Why does that dude keep yelling "Down goes frazier"? What is that a reference to, or is it just some nonsense he invented?
Hoopajoops --
You ever use Google?
Why does that dude keep yelling "Down goes Frazier"? What is that a reference to, or is it just some nonsense he invented?
Joe Frazier...the boxer.
Well, he is right. Nothing like watching the end of wall street's casino.
Unemployment will be 12% at the peak, and nearly 20% in the worst hit states.
This level of losses pretty much guarantees that folks will never put most of their eggs in wall street's basket.
The new new new is going to be a return to the old days. Drag out your Graham & Dodd books, they are going to be useful again.
Simply amazing to watch business revert to the bad old days.
Someday this war's gonna end...
Dow cliff turned into a ramp....so far...
this would be nice!
Harkin Seeks To Force Derivatives Onto Exchanges
Senate Agriculture Committee Chairman Tom Harkin, D- Iowa, plans to introduce a bill Thursday that would force all over-the-counter derivatives, including credit-default swaps, onto regulated futures exchanges.
The bill, if eventually made law, would essentially mean that all derivatives would be defined and traded as futures contracts. In forcing them to be traded this way, it would grant the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission sole regulatory jurisdiction. It would also put to rest recent questions over which federal regulator should have oversight of complex swap products.
CNNMoney.com: 404 Page Not Found
Making the CEOs buy in sounds good as a sound byte. And it might work for a medium-sized business and a CEO in the $200K range who's still in mid-career and identifies with his company.
But these guys will do fine whether or not the car companies fall. They've already got money in the bank. Why should they endanger that?
Buffet's just grand-standing, and not very well.
Why does that dude keep yelling "Down goes Frazier"?
Makes me laugh every time:)
I expect a lot of resistance at the DOW 7,528 level because it was the 2002 low, and breaking that would send the market straight back to 1997 levels
Warren has a good point--the CEO needs a real stake in the success.
Apparently in early Rome they had a lot of trouble with stone structures falling down. Eventually they came up with the idea that the engineer should stand under the arch when the supports were removed after construction. Failures diminished rapidly.
Frazier v Ali - Howard Cosell kept repeating the phrase.
Didn't Buffett call everyone back in the water around 9500?
Cliff into ramp is not good according to mp channeling conjure. It will only prolong the pain. "Too orderly", conjure said. We need a real nosedive.
Old Warren has eluded my traps for years, but I finally have him where I want him- going bankrupt like everyone else.
CA unemployment numbers out - 8.2%
latimes.com
Warren Buffet:
"I also think GS was a good buy at $115. Please continue to listen my moronic babbling."
and we will go on to new heights, but it will not turn around by mid-year next year.
Optimist.
"Unemployment will be 12% at the peak, and nearly 20% in the worst hit states."
Nobody really knows how bad unemployment was in the great depression; all the figures are estimates. But I imagine that 20 percent would be great-depression territory.
I should add that my mother and her sisters and brothers, all teens, stayed "employed" during the Great Depression with jobs that paid little more than room and board. So besides employment rates, consider the quality of jobs that are available. Absent gov't stimulus, maybe not so good.
I expect a lot of resistance at the DOW 7,528 level because it was the 2002 low, and breaking that would send the market straight back to 1997 levels
mykillk | Homepage | 11.21.08 - 2:10 pm | #
It's been below that today.
I expect a lot of resistance at the DOW 7,528 level because it was the 2002 low, and breaking that would send the market straight back to 1997 levels
Blah blah blah.
Level X, reason Y.
It will hold, unless it doesn't.
It will rally, unless it doesn't.
CNBC keeps talking about F and GM. Is that really the story?
Seems to be C (and the rest of the XLF) is far more relevant at this point.
Buffett's been walking around thinking he was me for years. Now he's toast. Not sure whether I'll let him through the pearly gates or not. He's pissed me off.
BUY!
Keep in my this is the guy who just doubled down on United States Gypsum.
(drywall for lets see houses and buildings...LOL!)
(of course in all fairness he is pretty damn amazing person)
You can diss all you want about buffett all you want, He is one of the worlds riches men for a reason.
I agree with making the CEO's put skin in the games. I would also ask the UAW and everyone else to put skin in the games. You want a bailout, then you are going to assist or face BK.
All of this is mute till C is resolved anyway. Remianing Below $5 is going to generate massive selling and a run on the bank. Look for another Sunday special from the Government.
Let the buffett-ing begin. Uber rich investors embrace gov't sponsored socialism as it draws a moat around their capital and destroys competitors.
"Frazier v Ali - Howard Cosell kept repeating the phrase."
Frazier Vs. Foreman, Jamaica, 1973.
Wouldn't it be funny if the markets closed unchanged today?
Seems impossible. Ergo, that is my prediction.
Citizen AllenM writes:
The new new new is going to be a return to the old days. Drag out your Graham & Dodd books, they are going to be useful again.
I read "The Intelligent Investor" a couple years ago. At the time it read more like a history book than an investment guide. I'll have to crack it open again.
PSGirl, yep you're right, 7,528 has been breached three times, and three times it has bounced right back....hence the resistance
Is anybody buying TBT here? I just put in an order.
Dow isn't the story today. I predict it will finish around even (which still makes it a disastrous week).
The story of the day is pulling Citicorp off life support.
I think you should read this.
View from the sticks
C is the real story
the FED/Treasury will have another late night weekend on their hands as it is now time to get serious abut arranging the next shotgun wedding
And oh what heghts we'll hit,
On with the show, this is it!
C down 23 percent today now
What are the implications of Citi failure??? Is that not a complete collapse of our banking system? Could our government do anything about it? Granted, they can start selling off assets. That solves cash flow. But it seems to me that the problem is balance sheet.
Sort of a doomsday scenario, no?
I sure as hell hope so. The traffic around here is ridiculous, and the low gas prices aren't helping matters.
The markets will be 1+% from where they closed yesterday. Up or down I do not yet know. But I'm leaning towards up.
WB has said for years that it is very hard to beat the market
ask Bill Miller
WB - you predicted your own demise
Gavshire Hathaway --
If there is such a thing as "too big to fail", Citigroup is it. Won't happen.
(Which is not to say the common stock can't go to zero.)
I'm amazed C isn't lower
if you owned it right now, why wouldn't you sell?
have the last few months taught people nothing?
their equity is gone, zero, zip toast
dead man walking like AIG is their best case scenario
Is Charlie Weiss too big to fail?
FFDIC, I disagree. Buffett didn't create a lifestyle around his winnings (or stealings). Now Jimmy Buffett is another story, altogether.
Gavshire Hathaway - there was some TBT talk two threads back.
"Down Goes Frazier" was from the George Foreman/Joe Frazier fight from 1973 in Jamaica. Foreman knocked Frazier down 29 times in the first 10 seconds of the fight.
Ok, so I exaggerated just a bit.
Buffett will remain employed at a Diary Queen in Omaha
"Is anybody buying TBT here? I just put in an order."
Gavshire Hathaway
I'm holding off, waiting for a confirmation of today's action. Reason is I expect some "Shock & Awe" over the weekend. I'll probably miss the big move, but I don't see the kind of action that would convince me to move right now.
Agree that citi can't fail. Which is why i think TBT is a good buy here.
What is the downside? Treasuries are returning zero. How negative can they go without investors opting for gold instead?
Nice zero. I will use that one at work.
Gavshire Hathaway writes:
Is anybody buying TBT here? I just put in an order.
Gavshire Hathaway | 11.21.08 - 2:19 pm | #
I took a bit this morning, following Rich like the guru-loving sheep I am. I won't pretend I fully understand the bet, but it does sorta seem like I took out a CDS on my own well being by betting against Treasuries/USD. As in, will the dollars even buy anything if my bet pays off?
TBT is a short term mistake right now
if you want it to be a 'long' holding, yeah, you can win with that - but short term TBT is headed lower - long term its a great short play
who's on first?
How come we can't elect presidents who are too big to fall? Whatever happened to real men like WH Taft?
GS will see single digits. One or several of these will be too big to save.
What is there, that goes up in value that is not linked to money?
This is not a sexual joke...
TBT is inverse long bond yes?
well Japan long bond got down to 1% yield, and GD I was the same
no reason we can't head there too.
Diary Queen
Hmmm....what would you order from such a place?
Japan wasn't the credit risk the US Gov't is.
Nothing's too big to fail, including the concepts of The United States of America and Democracy and Capitalism.
irony is that american politicians and citizens spent hundreds of billions of dollars to kill afghans and iraqs who never did them harm.
never broke into their homes, never stole their cars, never assaulted or raped them. there has been virtually no objection to this.
while on the other hand they turn their backs on their own citizens employed in the auto industry with a savagery and viciousness that is breathtaking.
america is finished.
Dear Diary, today I had breakfast with the queen. We had pancakes and sausage and then we played a quick game of one on one.
SKF is near a 3 handle?
is that right
my god, that chart for the last month is nothing but insane
Buffett has learned a thing or 2 about losing. Anyone that followed him into his trades is down BIG.
Mr Magoo.
Reposting from defunct thread:
Alphaville has chart showing a worldwide wealth destruction of $35T. We're half way there.
Leviticus 4:8 He shall remove all the fat from the bull of the sin offeringthe fat that covers the inner parts or is connected to them
Deuteronomy 28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.
Lovely destruction of Jerusalem day!
Anonymous | 11.21.08 - 2:20 pm | #
Thanks, interesting add
Which is why I initiated my "short Buffett" trade. Started shorting insurers 6 months ago. Started shorting railroads last month.
Too easy. What am I missing?
GH
yes, and that is why in the long run, you are right
but in the short run, US still has reserve currency status and all debt is dollar denominated
so if you want to bet on the FED/Treasury inflating their way out of this mess - by all means, go with TBT
but the reality is, govt exists for its own ends, and govt gets stronger with deflation, not hyperinflation
guess which way our policy will be biased?
Anonymous writes:
I think you should read this.
View from the sticks
Anonymous | 11.21.08 - 2:20 pm | #
It was mean to post that because that person is going to get a lot of hate comments.
Bible quote - everybody drink!
C down 24 percent for the day. No sign whatsoever of a final death bounce.
guest, we could look at that another way. The autoworkers gladly sent their kids to kill innocent iraqis and afghanis who never did anything to them and are now crying boo hoo because they want the increasingly unemployed of this country to support them with a permanent salary the rest of their lives.
When do we see yen based treasuries?
Make that 26 percent for C
This is the final plunge of Titanic into the see. Hold on Rose!
Before this financial saga is said and done, the American people will never want to hear the word "bailout" again.
Bailouts transfer wealth from value creators to value destroyers. No good will come of it.
Mene mene tekel upharsin....
Thats Ballgame Comrades writes:
"C down 24 percent for the day."
JPM down 14% and holding. Wish I was short today.
Lamentations 1:8
Jerusalem hath grievously sinned; therefore she is removed: all that honoured her despise her, because they have seen her nakedness: yea, she sigheth, and turneth backward.
Bottoms up! Oh yeah, no bottom in an abyss.
Monta,
I'll concede that you could be right on TBT short term. But I'm willing to take that risk -- it also provides a hedge against a market bounce off these levels. That is a primary concern of mine right now.
Executive buy in is common in PE firms - what Buffett is suggesting is not a new or radical idea.
I've seen guys worth $25MM asked to put more than half of their net worth into deals if they want to be 'part of equity'... and if they want to be part of senior management they have to part of equity - quid pro quo.
And the upside from these things is huge - 100% returns frequently over a few years IF executed well. That's why the PEs ask managers to have real skin in the game or go work for WalMart.
The other party who needs to pony up some skin would be the unions... if they want their future pensions & benies then buy in boys.
A prepack BK is always an answer.
BTW - if the gov't took this tough of a position w/ both mgmt & the union - I wouldn't be near as opposed to our gov't buying a sizable equity stake.
No 'loans' though - dilute equity to zero & make unions & management provide skin too. That might work.
Persian Medes. Chinese Japanese. Weighed in scales found wanting.
again, C at 3+ is overvalued
they are a colossal pile of garbage assets with many times that number in liabilities
there is no equity
why the price isn't lower is a mystery to me
I'm amazed Warren is still kicking. His diet is cherry coke and hamburgers. How does he not have diabetes? I predict his health will diminish quickly when it does.
I like GLD over TBT for now. Was in TBT for a while but got out with the flight to quality bid in treasuries. To me GLD and TBT are roughly the same bet right now.
I don't think will have a problem with smugness after this is all said and done---
Yahoo!
Re: Prepackaged bankruptcy
With respect to the companies being discussed, how do you prepackage a bankruptcy of GM, Chrysler, or C? More happy talk to me. These companies need major restructuring. They all need CH 7, IMO.
CITIGROUP INC
(NYSE: C)
Real-time: 3.32 Down 1.39 (29.51%) 2:37PM ET
These companies need major restructuring. They all need CH 7, IMO.
Umm... these are mutually exclusive, no?
C dropping like a rock now
They cannot and will not find a domestic buyer for C.
Are they really gonna shop it to China and Saudi Arabia over the next 48 hours?
What is the Sunday Eve Surprise?
We shall gather at this blog and find out my brethren.
Keep shorting; weed out the greed! Keep shorting; weed out the greed!
It's time for Main St to take back this country from the Oligarchy.
At $20BB market cap, how many hundreds of individual hedge funds could buy C outright?
Watching today's market is like watching the hammer murder of a muppet.
You know the end result, but it just keeps coming back up honking and squeaking.
Chainsaw - again, I am merely talking short term
long term, long bond yields will visit double digits
we are reserve currency, thus, our net debtor status is not as much of a problem (but when we lose reserve currency status - ka boom)
plus as a percentage of GDP our debt is not yet crushingly large (but will be in the not too distant future)
look at it this way, the long bond offers some positive yield in a massive deflationary environment, denominated in the reserve currency
its like buying gold with yield back in the days of gold standard
it is a life preserver and people are clutching it right now
when they find out that it only has enough air for a little while - they too will sink
How did Buffett miss this historic credit bust? It's beyond me.
Looks like a dreaded Gandalf vs. Saruman formation in the markets.
Paging PCA!
Buffett is the Livermore of GD2!
How does one hedge against dollar collapse if the hedge pays off in dollars?
From walking the moon to the stone age in one generation. WaaHoo.
Capitulation is when everyone brings out their hoarded means of exchange and buys anything still available.
Where's the beef? Where's the fuel? Where's the bread?
SKF 296
now that I definitely didn't see coming
I think the US should spend the last avail 30 bill of TARP on SKF
proceeds to the people!
BAC is getting ready to go below $10.
Charlotte NC is hanging on by a thread since WB went tits up.
could somebody play something on the harmonica?
Fed official trying to pump the market again:
"We likely are in for a protracted period of poor economic performance," said Charles Evans, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago.
.
SKF 300
its over folks
Someone should tell Buffet that accountability doesn't matter anymore.
So, what will the survivor cities be?
SKF is up 100% in less than 2 weeks!
You know, if you want a drinking game, watch reruns of the Bob Newhart Show - "Hi, Bob!" (drink)
I'm really not amused.
Maybe your host should start a bible thread.
Gotta run, it's that dc1000 again.
speed:
farewell and adieu to you
fair spanish ladies
farewell and adieu to you
ladies of spain
for we've received orders
for to sale back to boston
and so nevermore shall we see you
agai
Sure wish we could stop this 5.5 hour pre-open silliness. Takes up valuable fishing time. 10-12 est should be good enough.
monta:
you're just know noticing??
Umm... these are mutually exclusive, no? --Basel Too
Semantics. To rephrase, the only way to restructure all the assets and liabilities that are GM is to sell everything. Then what was once GM will have been "restructured" into the market.
Someone should tell Buffett that buffets are more economical.
So, what will the survivor cities be?
Morocco Bama
Somewhere in Gabon?
oops. that was actually for irreverent, not speed.
Somali Pirates in Discussions to Acquire Citigroup
By Andreas Hippin
November 20 (Bloomberg) -- The Somali pirates, renegade Somalis known for hijacking ships for ransom in the Gulf of Aden, are negotiating a purchase of Citigroup.
The pirates would buy Citigroup with new debt and their existing cash stockpiles, earned most recently from hijacking numerous ships, including most recently a $200 million Saudi Arabian oil tanker. The Somali pirates are offering up to $0.10 per share for Citigroup, pirate spokesman Sugule Ali said earlier today. The negotiations have entered the final stage, Ali said.
"You may not like our price, but we are not in the business of paying for things. Be happy we are in the mood to
offer the shareholders anything," said Ali.
The pirates will finance part of the purchase by selling new Pirate Ransom Backed Securities. The PRBS's are backed by the cash flows from future ransom payments from hijackings in the Gulf of Aden. Moody's and S&P have already issued their top investment grade ratings for the PRBS's.
Head pirate, Ubu Kalid Shandu, said: "We need a bank so that we have a place to keep all of our ransom money. Thankfully, the dislocations in the capital markets has allowed us to purchase Citigroup
at an attractive valuation and to take advantage of TARP capital to grow the business even faster."
Shandu added, "We don't call ourselves pirates. We are coastguards and this will just allow us to guard our coasts better."
*CITI IN TALKS WITH SOMALI PIRATES FOR POSSIBLE CAPITAL INFUSION
*WILL REQUIRE ALL CITI EMPLOYEES TO WEAR PATCH OVER ONE EYE
*SOMALIAN PIRATES APPLY TO BECOME BANK TO ACCESS TARP
*PAULSON: TARP PIRATE EQUITY IS AN `INVESTMENT,' WILL PAY OFF
*KASHKARI SAYS `SOMALI PIRATES ARE 'FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND' '
*Moody's upgrade Somali Pirates to AAA
*HUD SAYS SOMALI DHOW FORECLOSURE PROGRAM HAD `VERY LOW' PARTICPATION
*SOMALI PIRATES IN DISCUSSION TO ACQUIRE CITIBANK
*FED OFFICIALS: AGGRESSIVE EASING WOULD CUT SOMALI PIRATE RISK
(19 Ratings)
Byzantine_Ruins writes:
Watching today's market is like watching the hammer murder of a muppet.
You know the end result, but it just keeps coming back up honking and squeaking.
I've haven't laughed that hard in quote a while.
Everyone should be investing in a still to make moonshine
Gavshire:
I bit the TBT several weeks ago and am going to buy some PST also (approx 10 year frame). Will also buy more TBT.
I don't think that you want to hold ultrashorts for a long-term investment, but believe that several months is enough window to make some money.
I don't see how much further SKF can honestly go since the Finacial sector itself is down mebbe 85-90% from it's high.
Can you short SKF?
"What does Buffett know. Just an over the hill insurance exec. Right Elvis?
MLM"
Right. He just is lucky.
yes you can short SKF. It's called FAS.
CNBC Europe roundtable video. Watch the English guy at 4:58 into video.
"I look around and I see dead people." He's talking about the level of collapse he expects to happen.
All US Financials Will be Nationalized in a Year: Manager - CNBC
kill_the_czar, priceless....for everything else there's.......
You know the end result, but it just keeps coming back up honking and squeaking.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"To me GLD and TBT are roughly the same bet right now.
Anonymous"
Except unless you are buying gold with leverage, TBT has double the upside.
I've actually hammer killed muppets, they bite more than they honk and squeak.
homedad,
You can probably buy a put option on it, but I don't know for certain.
Looks like new cars aren't the only thing piling up in ports: Oil companies storing oil on tankers
, waiting for higher prices.
Like underwater homeowners waiting for the market to turn around.
A baited banker thus desponds,
From his own hand foresees his fall,
They have his soul, who have his bonds;
'Tis like the writing on the wall.
- Johnathan Swift
PPT to bring out the defib paddles in 10min. Get ready!
Muppets are the tool of choice for child molesters.
Except unless you are buying gold with leverage, TBT has double the upside.
Elvis
True, maybe. Does anyone think the ultrashorts will encounter counterparty risk at some point? SKF, SRS near 300 has to hurt for someone.
Well, let's put it this way: Buffet's solution is better than just handing the auto companies money, but it's not much of a better solution than allowing them to get what they deserve: bankruptcy.
Anonymous(Unrated) writes:
I'm amazed Warren is still kicking. His diet is cherry coke and hamburgers. How does he not have diabetes?
Oooh, Puritan moralizing and magical attitude toward diet.
I predict his health will diminish quickly when it does.
He's 78 years old. WTF does he care? The trip from 80 to the grave is not a great ride.
killtheczar and byz ruins:
absolutely priceless.
Warren knows things are nasty and about to get nastier. His problem is he thinks the aftermath of this current mess will be like all the downturns. Just a return to Normalcy. Me thinks he's wrong. Guys like Warren all have that infamous "last 100 year" dow chart on their office wall.
Mr. Dawg welcomes Mr. Buffett. Does this mean we are both in the wilderness or that dire unemployment is the new black?
Berkshire Hathaway at $84b is the largest surviving banky sorta type thingy left standing. This after a few months of $145k to $78k share price.
I find it amazing that more people on this board believe in the PPT than me. Hell, I've done a better job than the PPT in the past couple months. The Phillies won the World Series and an African American was elected President. Please, give me some credit and stop this PPT rhetoric...
WASHINGTON, Nov 21 (Reuters) - The U.S. Comptroller of the Currency announced:
BRIEF-U.S. regulators grant conditional OK for Ford bank - Forbes.com
http://bp1.blogger.com/_1HsV5tS_pJ4/RhSH7mXpa2I/AAAAAAAAAVg/460uxZfh-ME/s1600-h/mean+muppets.jpg
No hammering these muppets
sweet volume on Citi today!
I bought 100 shares of INTC today @ 12.29.
God, do you mind explaining Revelation 18 again:
Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great!
She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit,
and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.
For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality,
and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her,
and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.
Does this mean I should go long C?
"True, maybe. Does anyone think the ultrashorts will encounter counterparty risk at some point? SKF, SRS near 300 has to hurt for someone.
Anonymous"
Yes, this is the concern. I think if TBT gets to 300, you should take your 600% gain and run.
Speaking of which, Gavshire:
Do you tithe?
I find it amazing that more people on this board believe in the PPT than me.
That because your an idiot in denial
Oooh, Puritan moralizing and magical attitude toward diet. -ByzRuins
Whatever. I'm not religious and I took a nutrition class. And I never said WB cared that he was getting old, nor that it would be pleasant. I'm just surprised he's held in this long.
hank to tarpy: (hank has his b&d gear on today) thwak! thwak! (tickles her bottom with the cat o' nine tails) humiliation, I'll show you humiliation,you tramp
PPPT: Paulson Position Protection Team- up or dow
Well, since Buffet openly supported Obama, it's pretty clear that he's lost his touch.
Zero:
Judging by the international aspect, I'm referring to AIG.
Of course, supporting Palin would have proved Buffet's mental acuity.
Ticker Tape of Doom - I read it twice, then had to read it myself to believe it. Jeeze. Un f-ing believable. What's next? San Jose becomes a bank - followed by the Bank of CA, formerly the State of California.
gimme a break, you mean Warren believes that the Big 3 shouldn't get the kind of deal that he's gotten over the years? some people should know when to shut up
This is a minor issue, but shouldn't Google's favicon for finance.google.com be flipped so it shows the markets going down?
U.S. Stocks Gyrate as SOMALIAN PIRATES Concern Offsets Commodity Rally
U.S. Stocks Rally as Obama Picks Tim Geithner to Head Treasury - Bloomberg.com
SOMALIAN PIRATES, which has about $2 trillion of assets, has fallen for nine of the last 10 days on concern more companies and consumers will default as the economy worsens.
We are all banks now.
NBC news reports Geithner to be TreasSec
Ticker Tape of Doom - I read it twice, then had to read it myself to believe it. Jeeze. Un f-ing believable. What's next? San Jose becomes a bank - followed by the Bank of CA, formerly the State of California.
Speed | 11.21.08 - 3:02 pm | #
ha! yeah i know, i know.
I should add that my mother and her sisters and brothers, all teens, stayed "employed" during the Great Depression with jobs that paid little more than room and board.
That's funny because I'm a professional living in Vancouver CA and my above average income pays for little more than the exorbitant room and board people pay in this city.
Zero, my son, It means you should go to Vegas and stay at the Wynn before it tanks. Its a great place and I'd love to tell you more, but you know, what goes on in Vegas stays in Vegas... If Moses spills the beans he's a dead man.
Borkafatty, why do you betray me my son? Where has the PPT been the past 45 days? Hiding up your fat ass? Dont mess with God or I'll f-ck you up.
C- cliff diving....Can we get a few bars of " Camp town Lady"
When Uncle H. Paulson alternates between indulging and cossetting his little ones to beating and starving them, will the world wonder when they all grow up sociopaths? Hobos and grifters?
"Speed writes:
Ticker Tape of Doom - I read it twice, then had to read it myself to believe it. Jeeze."
I suspected it all along. I think KFC is next. Ever go there? after people eat the food, the lines to the bathroom are always long because they need to make a deposit.
I would like to go to a Ford bank.
If you guess the number of quarters in your piggy bank you get an Explorer!!
I don't know who to give the credit, but the "Somalian Pirate Backed Securities" was a stroke of genius.
Gitner (sp) is Treasury Secretary
Dont mess with God or I'll f-ck you up.
-- shut the f-ck up tuff guy the devil always wins.
Paulson is not happy with C. He thought he was getting the weekend off now that the TARP is frozen. Hope he didn't have any plans. There is no bank large enough to take C over. C will have to be broken up and parcelled out, a huge job.
LAS VEGAS SANDS CORP @ $2.91
JPM holding up damn well in chart:
LVS: Basic Chart for LAS VEGAS SANDS CORP - Yahoo! Finance
I'd like to know how both Henry Blodget and Abbey Joseph Cohen missed this credit crisis.
They always used to get predictions so right.
New thread
good lord, I've never seen so much red/green volatility in my life....WE'RE AT WAR PICK A SIDE! =]
Their ATMs will come with Check-Engine lights.
Warren Buffett's actuarial life expectancy is currently somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 year. Hamburgers aren't a threat to life expectancy at this point.
Geithner SEC OF TREAS? But I thought a Israeli gangland war was on! Guess they put a soldier in the right place.
The book of Revelation has a lot to do with the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D., the Roman Empire, and the Catholic Mass. And, also something to do with the end times too. But in order to explain everything you need backgrounds in hebrew, theology, and basically poetry. Don't listen to the wingnuts.
.
kill_the_czar | 11.21.08 - 2:50 pm |
That rocks dude. If that doesn't get stolen for The Daily Show there is no justice in this world.
.
Somalian Pirate Backed Securities are in a lot of money market funds now!
Everybody is grappling with what they call redemption getting your money out, says Timothy W. Mungovan, the groups co-chair.
Last Month, $40 Billion Pulled From Hedge Funds
Funds unwinding positions amid the looming redemption requests and increased difficulty in borrowing money have been among the reasons cited for the stock market's swoon over the past two months.
Looks to me like the "market" has figured out that the toxic waste of level 3 assets and cds's liabs on the financials balance sheets was more than just rumor.
I suspected it all along. I think KFC is next. Ever go there? after people eat the food, the lines to the bathroom are always long because they need to make a deposit.
Elvis | 11.21.08 - 3:05 pm | #
Sir, would you like to apply for a credit card while you wait for your order today?
videoguy writes:
CNBC Europe roundtable video. Watch the English guy at 4:58 into video.
"I look around and I see dead people." He's talking about the level of collapse he expects to happen.
All US Financials Will be Nationalized in a Year: Manager - CNBC
videoguy | 11.21.08 - 2:53 pm | #
yes, I watched a little, incredible, one guy gets it, none of the others do, a recitation of the conventional wisdom about how the markets are going to be reflated, with a turnaround that will be fast and furious
how many times do you have to hit someone in the head with a hammer before they say, stop?
Re: Warren Buffett's actuarial life expectancy is currently somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 year
ROTFLMAO! I think your not factoring in recent stresses and the the losses which create heartache and hear burn (cash burn too).
Gads, there's that fucking Bart Simpson Pattern again...
@God
Tithe? Hahaha, no. But i will be supporting my family and friends through these times of hardship.
I hope the coming downturn will inspire generosity, personal accountability, and optimism in the goodness of people.
Let us so pray.
The government can't create wealth for our country. The government can only transfer wealth.
Just how is transferring wealth to crooked and inept bankers as well as an outdated auto industry going to make us wealthier?
99% of banking executives should be fired immediately and never allowed to work in finance again.
@monta's ankle
"well Japan long bond got down to 1% yield, and GD I was the same"
Isn't the difference this time that the US has to keep borrowing massive amounts to fund our deficit and our liquidity programs?
I don't know about GD I, but I thought the Japanese were net savers when their bubble blew. Pretty sure we were not a massive debtor nation back in the 30s.
disclaimer: I am long TBT
GH
if you hold TBT for the long term, you will be rewarded
of course the natural question is how long, and could I do better by buying in a few months (or even a few years)
I don;t know the answer to #1, and therefore I am unable to answer number 2
as a hedge - should be good, but be careful , the long bond will not always remain an inverse trade of US equities...
C headed for penny stock territory.
Cash and gold. Stop playing the markets. Stop shorting. Stop bottom-calling. Cash, gold, cigarettes.
"ROTFLMAO! I think your not factoring in recent stresses and the the losses which create heartache and hear burn (cash burn too).
Kona"
When Warren loses money, it is really just charities and poor people losing money after he dies. If you root against Warren, you route against those charities and poor people and you accrue bad karma. You are warrened.
Nah, Buffett's gonna be OK...Old school, knows sweat equity makes wiser decisions...
hmmm.....many of the comments about Buffett are telling us more about the commentators than Buffett.
One of the ways to get successful is to learn from those that are. For instance, Buffett has a long time horizon, but that seems to elude many commentators.
Expect Buffett to have excellent investments that will pay off years after he has finally retired from Berkshire.
There has to be something going on with 20-year notes, bonds, securities or something, cause the shape of the curve is inverted and I'm telling yah, something at right!
Composite Bond Rates: Bonds Center - Yahoo! Finance
Ha! warren b is probably shorting stocks privately and sitting on a small stockpile of gold and ammo in his little house in omaha.
bearly,
at this point it is more like the scene from "Pulp Fiction" when Uma gets the direct cardiac injection of adrenaline lol
Oh my God, now we have to root for Buffett because he has a charity> Gimmie a friggn break, the guy is a crook!
halbhh writes:
hmmm.....many of the comments about Buffett are telling us more about the commentators than Buffett.
One of the ways to get successful is to learn from those that are. For instance, Buffett has a long time horizon, but that seems to elude many commentators.
I used to think Dick Fuld was successful.
We have some new cabinet names
Geithner at Treasury
Clinton at State
Richardson at Commerce
Very happy to see Richardson in the room, though Commerce is a non-traditional choice for a guy with his resume. Replacing Geithner at the NY Fed will be tricky.
SOMALI PIRATES: WE SEE FEAR IN BUFFETT'S EYES.
Count me in as a fan:
Timothy Geithner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
He was involved in the Bear Stearns and AIG Bailout and the decision to let Lehman Brothers fail.
They had this ready to post fairly fast....
"I hope the coming downturn will inspire generosity, personal accountability, and optimism in the goodness of people.
Let us so pray."
Amen.
My recommendation Warren it to take the auto company management and board of directors, strip them naked, parade them threw the snow then mow them down with machine guns. Take their money and invest that in these failed companies.
jamie dimnon to head ny fed. Sell jpm
how is Geithner at Treasury positive. this is a guy who has failed miserably in his role. totally pathetic that the market rallies on this news.
They should rebalance the Dow to replace GM with SKF. Sound like a plan?
k harris writes:
We have some new cabinet names
Clinton at State
So, he gives her a platform to attack him in 2012 ? He must be nuts. (or very very weak)
Obama himself and his team are allmost sureal. As if they are just there for optics. Strange
Does this make the highly experienced and effective Mr. Warsh second in command and at the top of the list as people to replace Bernanke next year? Why not, America is toast...
werner, it would be the end of Clinton's career to attack Obama in 2012.
"Gads, there's that fucking Bart Simpson Pattern again...
Kona | 11.21.08 - 3:13 pm | #"
Thank goodness it is not a Gandalf or bat signal...
I'm kinda seeing the Bat Pattern, and that may not be a good omen for Monday!
Werner(Excellent) writes:
So, he gives her a platform to attack him in 2012 ? He must be nuts. (or very very weak)
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". She needs to be in the tent pissing out, or else she'll be outside pissing in.
Note this is a very demanding job that involves a lot of foreign travel. A lot of those trips with her name attached are going to be VERY disappointing. He can arrange for a costly and showy public failure on her part any time he wants.
She is also an excellent manipulator and she and Bill know all the people they'll be visiting.
By '012, he'll either be unassailable or unelectable.
This seems like a solid choice to me. American politics is very much a parliamentary system. Some people are just GOING to have ministries.
Obama needs Hil so he can snap Pelosi's little chicken neck for gainsaying him over the auto bailout issue. The true measure of his ability to be rule will be how swiftly and surely he dispatches Pelosi.
"Obama needs Hil so he can snap Pelosi's little chicken neck for gainsaying him over the auto bailout issue. The true measure of his ability to be rule will be how swiftly and surely he dispatches Pelosi."
There is a new sheriff in town...
Iconoclast421 writes: yes you can short SKF. It's called FAS.
Or, you can cut out the middleman, and just buy some C, BAC, GS, and MS for starters.
Doesn't sound so good, when stated like that, eh?
No. I would take pants off of them CEOs and scuttle them on frozen Lake Michigan before giving money.
"I would make the CEOs buy in. I would say, you know, the United States government is willing to put in X dollars, but we're going to have you put in a certain percentage of your net worth right along with us. We'll give you more upside, but you're going to lose if we lose."
Warren, that's crazy talk. What's next, full disclosure of what TARP funds are being use for? How on earth will they afford their 300k vacations in the middle of financial armageddon? These guys have worked their collective arses off to drive these companies into the ground.
exranger.blogspot-
sorry you're putting in your retirement papers with GM. But the best thing that can happen to the Big Three is that they all go BK and start new. Unfortunately, you and all your co-workers will lose your outrageous and unjustified benefits and pensions, and the company will be bought and brought back to prosperity with competetive and justifiable wages.
Regarding the loss of your retirement pension...too bad. You wouldn't be the first and won't be the last.
I'll bet GM managers would prefer bankruptcy over buying personally buying more shares of GM stock. Thus Buffet's plan would expose exactly what GM's own CEO's think $25B will do - nothing. GM will fail even if you hand over 5x what they ask.
Buffet will hate this:
"Obama motivates D.C. to initiate new lower and middle class bailout"
Obama's Taxpayer Bailout