What policy can do at best is to minimize the financial and economic losses and limit the extent and severity and length of the economic and financial crisis, not to prevent it.
When one is trapped in an ambush, the best approach is to assume you are dead and attack into the ambush.
croneyism affects everyone I guess. No way I will be convinced that Geithner is a good choice, unless of course your goal is the destruction of the US.
When the total bailout cost now $4.6165 trillion dollars with a few trillion more to come America and many many Americans will experience a sobering reality check that will negatively impact lifestyle no matter who Obama has on his economic team.
The news is a big shot in the arm for the ailing agency MBS markets, which have been for weeks facing a growing fear over a dearth of overseas buyers and competition from FDIC-insured commercial banking debt. See the Feds announcement.
Prior to Feds announcement, we were worried that there is a significant uncertainty regarding overseas investor demand for agency bonds, analysts at Bank of America Corp. (BAC: 14.45 -0.96%) said Tuesday. This is not a big issue now as the Feds purchase activity should more than offset any potential selling of agency MBS by overseas investors.
Can overseas investor's sell existing MBS to the FED program, nice way to dump much of the worthless paper.
Dumb. It just goes to show that vanity trumps all: Roubini is, of course, dead wrong on this. These are old school Keynesians and 5% GDP growth ideologues who will never have the insight or guts to acknowledge and plan for the coming destruction of the American "dream".
Insured Banks and Thrifts Earned $1.7 Billion in the Third Quarter
Provisions for Loan Losses Continue to Be High, But Capital Levels Remain Strong
Nine FDIC-insured institutions failed in the third quarter, the most since the third quarter of 1993. The failures included Washington Mutual Bank, with assets of $307 billion. The FDIC's "problem list" grew during the quarter from 117 to 171 institutions, the largest number since the end of 1995. Total assets of problem institutions increased from $78.3 billion to $115.6 billion.
I just wonder if Obama's group are actually capable of factoring in the stupidity of American management.
The problem with a "spooky" horse is that it's reaction to a bad situation quickly magnifies the crisis.
I believe that modern American management, the most brainless horse a society ever tried to ride, is going to slash and burn employment this upcoming year, cutting down to and right through the bone. In a way harkening to the Prisioner's Dilemma, they will not retain core compentence. And the resulting shattered knowledge bases in all fields of endeavor will not be able to power an economic upturn until they are repaired.
actually, it's a reasonable thing to say. It basically ensures that Roubini's predictions are still accurate, and means he doesnt have to change anything. He can remain the other Dr Doom and have more time for partying with the hotties he has collected on Facebook. And he gets to remain buddy buddy with his friends. Brilliant!
Roubini likes him because that means more bearish news is coming and more bad decisions...which means more tv time, more web hits and more model parties.
I second that, boycott. The Fed job would take up far too much of his time. How would he ever be able to shop for the penis prints for his wall? Not gonna happen.
Since cronyism is the name of the game, why not drop the pretense and invite Ludwig Fainberg, Yehuda Attias and Larry Silverstein for the Council of Economic Advisers?
Unless I misssed something there is only one war remaining, as the Iraq war is won and mostly over, while Geithner and Paulson have spent roughly 5X the cost of the Iraq war in only a few months.
Amazing what political agendas do to objective jounalism and economics
Iran has disappeared? It hasn't come out of this Iraq episode too badly for a third rate power. I haven't heard: 'Persia delenda est' for a while, either. But the issue remains for the next administration.
I'm not surprised by the uncritical applause for Geithner and Summers among his former associates.
If you have never been in, or been personally associated with, the elite who run this country, you probably don't understand them. They live in a world much smaller and much more interconnected than you can imagine. They've worked together, gone to school together, served on philanthropic boards together, partied and intermarried together.
The elite are basically a small town. And they share a very small-town outlook. Anyone who isn't in the "in" group gets the same kind of look you give to homeless beggars. Utter and mostly unconscious dismissal. But if you are in the "in" group, you're automatically accepted, even if you're just a friend of a friend.
They stick together. If they are opposed in business or politics, they may form public enmities. But for the most part, they're all part of the same tribe, and these public disputes never disrupt the cocktail parties.
What Roubini fails to acknowledge is that our financial system was always the target of Al Qaeda from day one. The policies of Paulson, Geithner and Bernanke have increased that exposure.
Also - good article referenced by Peter as it highlights how small the world of the Fed and Treasury really is. There is little difference across three administrations.
hey, ive noticed you like to make wild accusations and ive never seen you back it up
remember two days ago when you said
Morocco Bama wrote:
Pavel, I wouldn't take such issue if Obama wasn't over-sold and over-hyped. He's the creation of Corporate Advertizing....
Morocco Bama | 11.21.08 - 4:35 pm | #
and i posted
morocco bama
you claim obama is a creation of corporate advertising
would you care to back that up with an intelligent argument based on history and facts
mock turtle | 11.21.08 - 4:46 pm | #
and you said
Morocco Bama writes:
mock turtle, research it for yourself, but first take those obvious blinders off. I will hold his feet to the fire just as I do every politician.
Morocco Bama | 11.21.08 - 4:50 pm | #
so guess what
i would welcome a chance to see your evidence that obama is a creation of corporate advertising
or do you just make stuff up
mock turtle | 11.23.08 - 11:26 pm | #
Up until now I could never remember the name of the guy who ran the NY FED because all I could recall was that Jim Rogers always referred to him as "that idiot at the NY Fed..."
"Unless I missed something there is only one war remaining, as the Iranians attempt to restore Shia rule to one of the most strategic regions of Iraq."
Oops - looks like there is more than one war to look forward to.
As for Obama's campaign and election being nothing more than the epitomy of Corporate Advertizing at its best, I can't provide you the proof you're looking for there. The proof's in the pudding, so to speak. In otherwords, I'm of the opinion, and you're not, but that doesn't make your opinion, or my opinion, any more valid. I'm sure I'm not alone in my opinion, just as you're not alone in your's.
"Morocco Bama wrote:
Pavel, I wouldn't take such issue if Obama wasn't over-sold and over-hyped. He's the creation of Corporate Advertizing....
Morocco Bama | 11.21.08 - 4:35 pm | #"
My God! If I didn't have the same thing for breakfast every morning I wouldn't remember it the next day, much less what was said four days ago.
The election is over. I didn't vote for him, but you have to pray for someone with such dire responsibilities. People can transcend themselves when they have to, when there's no choice. Give him a chance. And if you remain skeptical, at least don't heckle from the sidelines.
"Unless I missed something there is only one war remaining, as the Iranians attempt to restore Shia rule to one of the most strategic regions of Iraq."
So, critical analysis of his decisions is heckling? How marginalizing of you. For the record, it matters not whether I give him a chance. He will do as he will do regardless of what I say or do....in the meantime, I will continue to scrutinize his every move and shout foul from the rooftops when I see it. Anything less would be politically irresponsible.
i dont claim kennedy was killed by the fed reserve
i judge that he angered enuf powerful groups that many looked away or failed to protect after the first two assassination attempts...the one 2 weeks before in chicago and the foiled attempt a week or so later in tampa
Pavel: And if you remain skeptical, at least don't heckle from the sidelines.
Respectfully, this sort of deference led us to follies of the Bush Administration.
I heckled them as they went off to the Schoolboy's Crusade -- fools with no sense of logistics -- and I'll heckle them as they spend us into the poorhouse in the name of stimulus -- same criticism.
Mock, no problem, For the record, I do not believe Oswald was the Lone Gunman. In fact, I don't believe he even fired a shot. I do believe it was foul play at the highest levels, but who and what becomes a game of speculation.
Also, I don't hold Kennedy in high esteem as some sort of hero. He was as fatally flawed as any politician. He became a myth after his assassination. Zinn puts this myth to rest, and rightfully so.
You know who I don't like? James Baker.....and he has come out recently to say he is quite pleased with Obama's choices. That's a big slap in the face to all the Progressives (read not Liberals, who are republicans in disguise) out there who think Obama's in their corner. These are guys who think Robert Reich is a Leftist. Jeez, I guess so, since they killed all the remaining true Leftists in Latin America years ago. Now Reich os a Leftist. If Reich is a Leftist, there is no longer any left.....just right with velvet gloves.
Mock, give me some credit. I've looked at the Zaprudar film dozens of times. I'm not arguing that shots didn't come from the School Book Depository, or that they did, I'm claiming Oswald didn't pull the trigger. In fact, I don't even think his rifle was used.
i just got done reading your link re fed reserve notes and kennedy
i think your link raises questions as to the effect of kennedy's order but doesn NOT "debunk" my point that
kenndy angered many different powerful interest groups and
this lead to a failure to protect...important people looked the other way as rogue elements of the cia and the mob two groups he had especially angered0 plotted to kill him
btw these two groups the gov had enlisted to kill castro)
if i may recommend an excellent book just out
the legacy of secrecy...very well researched and documented
including freedom of information docs from FBI in the wiretapping the cosa nostra mob bosses and intel from the cia miami station chief who went freelance
final note, the congressional subcommittee on assignations concluded that kennedy was killed as a result of a conspiracy and that shots emanated from multiple directions
kennedy drew the ire of the mob as he refused to take back cuba (havana0 their play ground after they and chicago mayor helped fix the illinois election 9 yes nixon got robbed)
kennedy drew the anger of the cia cause he refused to grant us air support to thee bay of pigs invasion
kennedy drew the ire of the usaf and esp gen le emay as kennedy agree to remove icbm from turkey, on russias boarder
and the list goes on, including that vp johnson hated kennedy, ddue in part to their fights over how to handle vietnam, and while he did not participate...probably knew a hit was coming
Pavel Chichikov writes:
...People can transcend themselves when they have to...
Transcendence would probably be in order.
It's quite interesting to compare my recollection of him from several senate hearings (probably '06 & '07, forgott which committee) with the current pronouncements. He then came across as quite an average (junior) senator with the usual "run off the mill" questions.
(But still much better than Hillary's)
i think your link raises questions as to the effect of kennedy's order but doesn NOT "debunk" my point that
kenndy angered many different powerful interest groups and
Mock, I never argued with you about that part. If you recollect, I only took issue with the Federal Reserve part, hence my link about the Federal Reserve part.
Of course. This is an extraordinary emergency, no? One can either give up, or fight. Why would anyone take on a role in this new government just to give up?
Experience too, even if mistakes were made previously - especially if mistakes were made previously - can be of tremendous help to those who insist on fighting and learning instead of marking time. One wastes less time repeating the old mistakes.
Don't expect faultless policies though, not in the real world.
What's at stake here is not only economic security and stability - it's global peace and the shape of future societies.
Littlest Mandarin, criticism is good, even severe criticism, as long as it doesn't get personal and as long as the criticism doesn't assume failure before it happens. That isn't helpful.
I don't know anyone who doesn't have a stake in the success of this new administration, even people like me who didn't vote for it.
Re: Kennedy assassination - I read the Warren Commission report cover to cover several years ago. I have experience with firearms and ballistics. I have shot a number of large animals, and observed the wounds made by bullets of different types and velocities. I have experienced large caliber firearm noise weirdness based on location. I have seen the Zapruder clip many times. The Warren Commission Report thoroughly addressed obvious alternatives, and its conclusion got it right, IMHO. Oswald did it, and he acted alone. It may be entertaining to spin conspiracies. Just please keep in mind the government doesn't ALWAYS lie and cover up.
the link you provided regarding kennedy going around the federal reserve in issuing money does not speak to the relationship that might have had to his assassination
i never claimed the fed had anything of a direct action, to do with kennedys assassination
i do think that leaders, powerful people in and out of government and policy makers , many, not all, and not most, had reason to believe kennedy was going to be hit and did little or nothing to protect the president, because he had crossed so many interest groups
whee!
I bet Roubini invites both of them to his sexy parties.
Yes, I'm jealous.
Dr. Doom Roubini has started to become a politician - he should stick to economics
2nd to the Saxo
We are all second to the Saxo
What policy can do at best is to minimize the financial and economic losses and limit the extent and severity and length of the economic and financial crisis, not to prevent it.
When one is trapped in an ambush, the best approach is to assume you are dead and attack into the ambush.
the nytimes thinks otherwise
EDITORIAL; Mr. Obama's Economic Advisers - NY Times
I thought everybody was thrilled that Geithner would save us!
Roubi wants Benny's office when its vacated, that's all.
croneyism affects everyone I guess. No way I will be convinced that Geithner is a good choice, unless of course your goal is the destruction of the US.
"## When one is trapped in an ambush, the best approach is to assume you are dead and attack into the ambush."
Vorwärts, Kameraden, wir müssen zurück!
When the total bailout cost now $4.6165 trillion dollars with a few trillion more to come America and many many Americans will experience a sobering reality check that will negatively impact lifestyle no matter who Obama has on his economic team.
Holy death of the dollar Batman! Did I yet again see Paulson on TV? And they are announcing what? Another 800 Billion of relief!
They are indeed trying to break this game wide open. Hu will cry uncle first?
The news is a big shot in the arm for the ailing agency MBS markets, which have been for weeks facing a growing fear over a dearth of overseas buyers and competition from FDIC-insured commercial banking debt. See the Feds announcement.
Prior to Feds announcement, we were worried that there is a significant uncertainty regarding overseas investor demand for agency bonds, analysts at Bank of America Corp. (BAC: 14.45 -0.96%) said Tuesday. This is not a big issue now as the Feds purchase activity should more than offset any potential selling of agency MBS by overseas investors.
Can overseas investor's sell existing MBS to the FED program, nice way to dump much of the worthless paper.
Vorwärts, Kameraden, wir müssen zurück!
Blonderengel | 11.25.08 - 11:34 am
Coward
Dumb. It just goes to show that vanity trumps all: Roubini is, of course, dead wrong on this. These are old school Keynesians and 5% GDP growth ideologues who will never have the insight or guts to acknowledge and plan for the coming destruction of the American "dream".
wir müssen zurück! wir müssen fur unsere Lieben kamfen oder alles toten.
Die flucht nach vorne antreten.
"## Coward"
Can't hep it. Am a lover, not a fighter.
The couple of the same clowns that helped cause this mess won't be able to fix this mess.
I'm glad he added the disclaimer for more info check out Brad Sester blog.
jo6pac
The race to the bottom continues
FDIC: Press Releases - PR-126-2008 11/25/2008
FDIC Press Releases
Insured Banks and Thrifts Earned $1.7 Billion in the Third Quarter
Provisions for Loan Losses Continue to Be High, But Capital Levels Remain Strong
Nine FDIC-insured institutions failed in the third quarter, the most since the third quarter of 1993. The failures included Washington Mutual Bank, with assets of $307 billion. The FDIC's "problem list" grew during the quarter from 117 to 171 institutions, the largest number since the end of 1995. Total assets of problem institutions increased from $78.3 billion to $115.6 billion.
One of the interesting things will be whether Larry Summers and Christina Romer can play well together.
‘Problem’ Banks Rose 46% in Third Quarter, FDIC Says (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
Problem Banks Rose 46% in Third Quarter, FDIC Says (Update1)
Die Angst und zitternd vor dem Herrn ist der Anfang des Gesetzes
beer hier, beer hier
oder Ich fall um
das ist alles so dumm,dumm,dumm
I just wonder if Obama's group are actually capable of factoring in the stupidity of American management.
The problem with a "spooky" horse is that it's reaction to a bad situation quickly magnifies the crisis.
I believe that modern American management, the most brainless horse a society ever tried to ride, is going to slash and burn employment this upcoming year, cutting down to and right through the bone. In a way harkening to the Prisioner's Dilemma, they will not retain core compentence. And the resulting shattered knowledge bases in all fields of endeavor will not be able to power an economic upturn until they are repaired.
And everybody will be screwed.
"Die Angst und zitternd vor dem Herrn ist der Anfang des Gesetzes."
Und was ist das Ende des Gesetzes?
Ben Frank'll Tank Bernanke writes:
Die Angst und zitternd vor dem Herrn ist der Anfang des Gesetzes
I know, I've been married most of my adult life.
Deregulators for change!
What??? It's no more discordant that keeping Gates on at DoD. I mean this is what the people wanted... right?
Ugh.
Geithnet is chief architect of this disaster..The only way he will save us from dracula's death bite is to touch base with his dad...
See here for yourself
Son
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/data?pid=avimage&iid=iIfSMQjbZGXw
Dad
http://wweek.com/photos/3352/large/9909.jpg
I've been preaching this for a year here..He's the trigger that shot the bullet...
If Roubini starts to be happy, does that mean the bear market is over?
I repsect the opinion of any man who has the good taste to display a vagina on his wall.
actually, it's a reasonable thing to say. It basically ensures that Roubini's predictions are still accurate, and means he doesnt have to change anything. He can remain the other Dr Doom and have more time for partying with the hotties he has collected on Facebook. And he gets to remain buddy buddy with his friends. Brilliant!
And in related news Exxon has rehired Joseph Hazelwood.
Und was ist das Ende des Gesetzes?
Blonderengel | 11.25.08 - 11:44 am
Perfect order?
Same woman or just a series of Nordic conquests? ;>
Roubini likes him because that means more bearish news is coming and more bad decisions...which means more tv time, more web hits and more model parties.
If Roubini starts to be happy, does that mean the bear market is over?
No, it just means he now has a penis mural to go with the vagina mural.
The roots haven't been severed, and all will be well in the garden.
Roubi wants Benny's office when its vacated, that's all.
No way will anyone with the nickname "Dr Doom" end up in that office.
Volker not win much when Volker away from home. Volker sad.
The roots haven't been severed, and all will be well in the garden.
Post of the week!
I second that, boycott. The Fed job would take up far too much of his time. How would he ever be able to shop for the penis prints for his wall? Not gonna happen.
Oh Chauncey, you've done it again!
I love Chauncey. Chauncey for President. The guy can walk on water.
Guys, I know its hard to keep up, but the rescue is now at 7 trillion
Bloomberg article
I know, I'm at the age where I'm slow too. I say we say the rescue just costs Quadtrillbilltillion because I figure we'll be there in...O, 20 mintues.
"## Perfect order?"
You are right. Death, it is.
Must read....
A Reporter at Large: Anatomy of a Meltdown : The New Yorker
Since cronyism is the name of the game, why not drop the pretense and invite Ludwig Fainberg, Yehuda Attias and Larry Silverstein for the Council of Economic Advisers?
"## Perfect order?"
You are right. Death, it is.
Blonderengel | 11.25.08 - 11:53 am
Ja, du bist ein blinder Optimist!
hmmm first he (Roubini) says he was Geithers advisor then he says he worked for him. Would Roubini want a job working for Obama?
Pessimists do not write.
Unless I misssed something there is only one war remaining, as the Iraq war is won and mostly over, while Geithner and Paulson have spent roughly 5X the cost of the Iraq war in only a few months.
Amazing what political agendas do to objective jounalism and economics
Like the Khoisan (sp?) Reservoir -- "Retreat, Hell!! This is an advance to the rear!"
MPinCO writes:
Unless I misssed something there is only one war remaining, as the Iraq war is won and mostly over...
Some folks can't even allow history to arrive before they begin to revise it.
"Unless I misssed something there is only one war remaining, as the Iraq war is won and mostly over"
Is that you Rove?
Eight Trillion? Why stop the fun now? It's all just "Monopoly Money" at this point...
MPinCO wrote, ...as the Iraq war is won and mostly over...
The War, per se, was over in a few months. What came after that was an occupation, not a war.
As for the "war" being over, violence is down a bit, but the political situation in Iraq hasn't changed much.
We could stay there another 10 years, and the place will still erupt in a hot civil war when we leave.
In that sense, the war was lost when it began.
"...the Iraq war is won and mostly over"
Iran has disappeared? It hasn't come out of this Iraq episode too badly for a third rate power. I haven't heard: 'Persia delenda est' for a while, either. But the issue remains for the next administration.
That NYTimes editorial (why unsigned?) calls on Senators to grill Geithner on his economic philosophy. (!!)
Of the two, I'll take Roubini's views for preference, thanks.
I'm not surprised by the uncritical applause for Geithner and Summers among his former associates.
If you have never been in, or been personally associated with, the elite who run this country, you probably don't understand them. They live in a world much smaller and much more interconnected than you can imagine. They've worked together, gone to school together, served on philanthropic boards together, partied and intermarried together.
The elite are basically a small town. And they share a very small-town outlook. Anyone who isn't in the "in" group gets the same kind of look you give to homeless beggars. Utter and mostly unconscious dismissal. But if you are in the "in" group, you're automatically accepted, even if you're just a friend of a friend.
They stick together. If they are opposed in business or politics, they may form public enmities. But for the most part, they're all part of the same tribe, and these public disputes never disrupt the cocktail parties.
Obama names Peter Orszag to head Office of Management and Budget
the Iraq war is won and mostly over
And Vietnam was a draw too right?
Markel,
Yep there are two kinds in that world view..."us" and "the help" - if you are typing here you are "the help"
Iraq war:
IRAQ'S NEW DAWN
VICTORY ACROSS THE BOARD MICHAEL YON
IRAQ'S NEW DAWN - NYPOST.com
Michael Yon - Online Magazine
It is Obama's to lose.
What Roubini fails to acknowledge is that our financial system was always the target of Al Qaeda from day one. The policies of Paulson, Geithner and Bernanke have increased that exposure.
Also - good article referenced by Peter as it highlights how small the world of the Fed and Treasury really is. There is little difference across three administrations.
A Reporter at Large: Anatomy of a Meltdown : The New Yorker
Some folks can't even allow history to arrive before they begin to revise it.
It's called Surge Protection.
girlbear writes:
hmmm first he (Roubini) says he was Geithers advisor then he says he worked for him. Would Roubini want a job working for Obama?
girlbear, I think that is what Roubini's homage to Obama reeked of :
Nouriel Roubini | Nov 6, 2008
The good news is that America has just elected a president with leadership, vision and great intelligence.
"Some folks can't even allow history to arrive before they begin to revise it.
Popeye "
This is an example of why I read this blog. There are some interesting minds here.
Yeah sure. It's obvious that Geithner just got done presiding over the buildup of this mess, apparently completely oblivious to it.
When one is trapped in an ambush, the best approach is to assume you are dead and attack into the ambush.
Not exactly -- unless you're going for a "gong." Sometimes that approach you describe is the only choice, though.
The preferred approach is to unass the kill zone -- as fast as possible, preferably as a group -- and then reorganize to ambush the bad guys.
mock turtle writes:
this is OT
only for morocco's eyes
hey, ive noticed you like to make wild accusations and ive never seen you back it up
remember two days ago when you said
Morocco Bama wrote:
Pavel, I wouldn't take such issue if Obama wasn't over-sold and over-hyped. He's the creation of Corporate Advertizing....
Morocco Bama | 11.21.08 - 4:35 pm | #
and i posted
morocco bama
you claim obama is a creation of corporate advertising
would you care to back that up with an intelligent argument based on history and facts
mock turtle | 11.21.08 - 4:46 pm | #
and you said
Morocco Bama writes:
mock turtle, research it for yourself, but first take those obvious blinders off. I will hold his feet to the fire just as I do every politician.
Morocco Bama | 11.21.08 - 4:50 pm | #
so guess what
i would welcome a chance to see your evidence that obama is a creation of corporate advertising
or do you just make stuff up
mock turtle | 11.23.08 - 11:26 pm | #
Up until now I could never remember the name of the guy who ran the NY FED because all I could recall was that Jim Rogers always referred to him as "that idiot at the NY Fed..."
I think I still call him that.
MPinCO writes:
Unless I misssed something there is only one war remaining, as the Iraq war is won and mostly over.
"Won" -- well, you sure can stick a flag marked "victory" into the pile of cowflop and call it a win.
guithner writes:
Dr. Doom Roubini has started to become a politician - he should stick to economics
guithner | 11.25.08 - 11:27 am | #
Yeah thats genius
Let' just let bushco handle the economy and the politics cause they've done such an outstanding job.
Btw politics and economics are inseparable, get a clue
"Unless I missed something there is only one war remaining, as the Iranians attempt to restore Shia rule to one of the most strategic regions of Iraq."
Oops - looks like there is more than one war to look forward to.
Hey Mock, this is OT, but here's the refutation of Kennedy and The Federal Reserve angle to his assassination.
Edward G Griffin on EO11110
As for Obama's campaign and election being nothing more than the epitomy of Corporate Advertizing at its best, I can't provide you the proof you're looking for there. The proof's in the pudding, so to speak. In otherwords, I'm of the opinion, and you're not, but that doesn't make your opinion, or my opinion, any more valid. I'm sure I'm not alone in my opinion, just as you're not alone in your's.
"Morocco Bama wrote:
Pavel, I wouldn't take such issue if Obama wasn't over-sold and over-hyped. He's the creation of Corporate Advertizing....
Morocco Bama | 11.21.08 - 4:35 pm | #"
My God! If I didn't have the same thing for breakfast every morning I wouldn't remember it the next day, much less what was said four days ago.
The election is over. I didn't vote for him, but you have to pray for someone with such dire responsibilities. People can transcend themselves when they have to, when there's no choice. Give him a chance. And if you remain skeptical, at least don't heckle from the sidelines.
"Unless I missed something there is only one war remaining, as the Iranians attempt to restore Shia rule to one of the most strategic regions of Iraq."
Attempt to restore? Who is in power in Baghdad?
Does anyone know how to determine if the government is printing money? Is it quantified somewhere?
Give him a chance.
So, critical analysis of his decisions is heckling? How marginalizing of you. For the record, it matters not whether I give him a chance. He will do as he will do regardless of what I say or do....in the meantime, I will continue to scrutinize his every move and shout foul from the rooftops when I see it. Anything less would be politically irresponsible.
morocco bama
i appreciate the link
my respect for you just notched up
i will read it and give consideration
thanks
btw
i dont claim kennedy was killed by the fed reserve
i judge that he angered enuf powerful groups that many looked away or failed to protect after the first two assassination attempts...the one 2 weeks before in chicago and the foiled attempt a week or so later in tampa
thanks for the response
Pavel:
And if you remain skeptical, at least don't heckle from the sidelines.
Respectfully, this sort of deference led us to follies of the Bush Administration.
I heckled them as they went off to the Schoolboy's Crusade -- fools with no sense of logistics -- and I'll heckle them as they spend us into the poorhouse in the name of stimulus -- same criticism.
Mock, no problem, For the record, I do not believe Oswald was the Lone Gunman. In fact, I don't believe he even fired a shot. I do believe it was foul play at the highest levels, but who and what becomes a game of speculation.
Also, I don't hold Kennedy in high esteem as some sort of hero. He was as fatally flawed as any politician. He became a myth after his assassination. Zinn puts this myth to rest, and rightfully so.
Pavel Chichikov
i appreciate your view that the eletion is over
you are right, and you are, well, maybe not so right, in that
even before he takes office there are those who would tear this guy down
if people make claims i look forward to reading some reasonable evidence
i come here to learn and debate ideas
btw, if mccain were prez elect i would pray for his success...i like and respect john mccain
ps
i think tim geithner is a good pick
true he is a career civil servant, only three years private experience i thinbk he worked for henry kissingers think tank or fund...got to research)
but TG is smart and can hit the deck running. outsiders are not going to untangle this knot
Morocco bama
do me a favor
take a look at the zapruder film on line
ive studied this ad nauseum
i agree oswald was a perp, but not the oly one
kennedy, clearly was caught in a cross fire and the zapruder fils esp digitally enhanced makes this clear
yes i know there is a lotta crap on the internet faked footage etc, agreed,,,but there are some reasonable web sites
kennedy is shot at least twice...from the rear thru the neck and from the front in the head
You know who I don't like? James Baker.....and he has come out recently to say he is quite pleased with Obama's choices. That's a big slap in the face to all the Progressives (read not Liberals, who are republicans in disguise) out there who think Obama's in their corner. These are guys who think Robert Reich is a Leftist. Jeez, I guess so, since they killed all the remaining true Leftists in Latin America years ago. Now Reich os a Leftist. If Reich is a Leftist, there is no longer any left.....just right with velvet gloves.
Mock, give me some credit. I've looked at the Zaprudar film dozens of times. I'm not arguing that shots didn't come from the School Book Depository, or that they did, I'm claiming Oswald didn't pull the trigger. In fact, I don't even think his rifle was used.
Dr. Doom Roubini has started to become a politician..
"started to"?
It's been obvious for a year that he's trying to write himself into an administration position.
Morocco bama
ok
i misunderstood your point re oswald
i just got done reading your link re fed reserve notes and kennedy
i think your link raises questions as to the effect of kennedy's order but doesn NOT "debunk" my point that
kenndy angered many different powerful interest groups and
this lead to a failure to protect...important people looked the other way as rogue elements of the cia and the mob two groups he had especially angered0 plotted to kill him
btw these two groups the gov had enlisted to kill castro)
if i may recommend an excellent book just out
the legacy of secrecy...very well researched and documented
including freedom of information docs from FBI in the wiretapping the cosa nostra mob bosses and intel from the cia miami station chief who went freelance
final note, the congressional subcommittee on assignations concluded that kennedy was killed as a result of a conspiracy and that shots emanated from multiple directions
kennedy drew the ire of the mob as he refused to take back cuba (havana0 their play ground after they and chicago mayor helped fix the illinois election 9 yes nixon got robbed)
kennedy drew the anger of the cia cause he refused to grant us air support to thee bay of pigs invasion
kennedy drew the ire of the usaf and esp gen le emay as kennedy agree to remove icbm from turkey, on russias boarder
and the list goes on, including that vp johnson hated kennedy, ddue in part to their fights over how to handle vietnam, and while he did not participate...probably knew a hit was coming
Pavel Chichikov writes:
...People can transcend themselves when they have to...
Transcendence would probably be in order.
It's quite interesting to compare my recollection of him from several senate hearings (probably '06 & '07, forgott which committee) with the current pronouncements. He then came across as quite an average (junior) senator with the usual "run off the mill" questions.
(But still much better than Hillary's)
ok apologies for OT (its the time of the year)
i'm gonna try to stop myself regarding the kennedy assassination debate...
until this time next year
'Attempt to restore? Who is in power in Baghdad?'
My mistake - I should have said Persian rule under the guise of Shia solidarity.
Because till now, the Arabs are still not under Persian rule in that region.
The war comes when the Arabs overcome religious differences when uniting against Persian encroachment.
The waters have receded and everyone is bickering over sea shells.
Roubini Fucking Rocks!!
So, we're installing new more intelligent Captains and Officers, but the hole left in the ship is still there, and we could sink anyways.
That about sums it up.
i think your link raises questions as to the effect of kennedy's order but doesn NOT "debunk" my point that
kenndy angered many different powerful interest groups and
Mock, I never argued with you about that part. If you recollect, I only took issue with the Federal Reserve part, hence my link about the Federal Reserve part.
"Transcendence would probably be in order."
Of course. This is an extraordinary emergency, no? One can either give up, or fight. Why would anyone take on a role in this new government just to give up?
Experience too, even if mistakes were made previously - especially if mistakes were made previously - can be of tremendous help to those who insist on fighting and learning instead of marking time. One wastes less time repeating the old mistakes.
Don't expect faultless policies though, not in the real world.
What's at stake here is not only economic security and stability - it's global peace and the shape of future societies.
"Heckling"
Littlest Mandarin, criticism is good, even severe criticism, as long as it doesn't get personal and as long as the criticism doesn't assume failure before it happens. That isn't helpful.
I don't know anyone who doesn't have a stake in the success of this new administration, even people like me who didn't vote for it.
Morocco Bama, I share your skepticism towards the coming Obama administration. And i voted for the guy ...
Having said that there is no doubt in my mind that Mr. Obama is going to be orders of magnitude better than Mr. Bush. But progressive he is not.
Markel's comment upthread pretty much explains what we are seeing now.
Re: Kennedy assassination - I read the Warren Commission report cover to cover several years ago. I have experience with firearms and ballistics. I have shot a number of large animals, and observed the wounds made by bullets of different types and velocities. I have experienced large caliber firearm noise weirdness based on location. I have seen the Zapruder clip many times. The Warren Commission Report thoroughly addressed obvious alternatives, and its conclusion got it right, IMHO. Oswald did it, and he acted alone. It may be entertaining to spin conspiracies. Just please keep in mind the government doesn't ALWAYS lie and cover up.
therealjg
so how do you explain the one, "pristine" bullet that the warren commission claims caused all injuries to kennedy and connelley in the same car
kennedy is clearly hit twice first in the neck as the highway sign blocks the view and then in the head
obvious coverup which anyone can see for themselves by watching the zapruder film in slow mo
i too, hunt and i won a copy of the rifle oswald allegedly used (and maybe he did)
i have never met anyone who was able to fire that bolt action rifle as fast and accurate as the warren commission claims oswald did
pure bunk and the american people bought it
Morocco bama
the link you provided regarding kennedy going around the federal reserve in issuing money does not speak to the relationship that might have had to his assassination
i never claimed the fed had anything of a direct action, to do with kennedys assassination
i do think that leaders, powerful people in and out of government and policy makers , many, not all, and not most, had reason to believe kennedy was going to be hit and did little or nothing to protect the president, because he had crossed so many interest groups
again your link does not dispute my claim