I think so.

Burp.

But what will be the effect on bankers too scared to lend due to lousy assets?

First.

Why not just cut to zero?

why cut?

dont solve anything.

appearance of relief, or just more string pushing.

third?

b-b-but by raising the rate they could reduce the TED spread, no?

If they cut too much people will take even more money out of the banks. They will and are easing every other way.

friardaddy writes:

Why not just cut to zero?

Mr. Blutarsky, zero point zero.

And the $USD begins to fall again, long term interest rates sky, and the fear of hyperinflation begins to rear it's ugly head?

Where's the person with the ZIRP signature? We're getting close...

FED holds, looking for Trichet to blink as the pain reaches Europe.

The Asians salivate with dry powder accumulating assets.

Can we go negative? Plez?

CR writes: To surprise the market, the Fed might need to cut by at least 50 bps - maybe 75 bps - and announce the action before the market opens on Monday.

They'd better the careful... the surprise might be a neutral or negative market reaction, which would mean they wasted one of their few remaining bullets for nothing. Best to wait until markets process this bailout thing a bit more.

A co-ordinated rate cut would be more dramatic. The ECB might be getting more amenable to such an effort now that their atavistic fear of inflation is fading in the face of potential collapse of EU banks.

Chicago Mercantile Exchange dropped T-bill futures, the TED spread is now calculated as the difference between the three-month T-bill interest rate and three-month LIBOR.

3-month- U.S Treasury yield = .47
3-month- Japanese Government yield = .63
3-month- German Government Bond yield =2.05
6-month-UK Government Bond yield = 3.76

We're gonna need these bullets in the future. Monday would just be target practice.

This is too complicated for me. What is the end game here -- deflation, or inflation?

long Yen, they are paying savers better than America. and they are not panicking, they are the buyers now.

dont fade the YEN.

47 lousy basis points?

The fed is now irrelevant anyway!

Cut it to zero- that will at least help with bring bank profits up enough to begin to soak up their massive losses.

I can hardly wait for a 4% prime rate.

OTOH, the market reaction will most likely be negative- which everything will be negative for a while.

Someday this war's gonna end...

"We will continue to use all of the tax dollars at our disposal to mitigate profit disruptions and to foster a strong, vibrant destruction of the American Dream."

"High five, Hank!" [smack!]

That Bernanke would even be studying the stock market reaction to rate cuts bothers me. The fact that he might possibly think it is meaningful pretty much flies against anything ever said about that by the Fed. I hope we're not running the Fed these days on the basis of the thinking of a bunch of short-term traders... but we may be.

Can I put my bullet in my gun now, Andy?

No amount of Fed lending to banks will cause them to lend in turn. The only two reasons to lower FFR are fear of a stock market crash or their irrational fear of deflation. Either way they are embarking on fear driven policies that are unlikely to be successful either way.

Give me some of that sweet and low 2% and I'll promise to spend the difference on consumer consumption.

I highly recommend reading Bernanke's speech on deflation from 2002. I suspect many of us had previously read this, but it is worth giving a second go at given the current circumstances.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/BOARDDOCS/SPEECHES/2002/20021121/default.htm 

My bottom line take away with respect to interest rates, he is going to act early and act big. Now that he is staring the prospect of deflation in the face, cutting the rate - possibly to zero - is exactly what he prescribed in this speech. He is not worried that zero means that he is out of ammunition, and the bulk of this speech details his ideas on measures to combat deflation at a 0% FFR.

Here is the money quote in my opinion "as suggested by a number of studies, when inflation is already low and the fundamentals of the economy suddenly deteriorate, the central bank should act more preemptively and more aggressively than usual in cutting rates (Orphanides and Wieland, 2000; Reifschneider and Williams, 2000; Ahearne et al., 2002). By moving decisively and early, the Fed may be able to prevent the economy from slipping into deflation, with the special problems that entails."

Other "gems" from this speech:

"Because central banks conventionally conduct monetary policy by manipulating the short-term nominal interest rate, some observers have concluded that when that key rate stands at or near zero, the central bank has "run out of ammunition"--that is, it no longer has the power to expand aggregate demand and hence economic activity. It is true that once the policy rate has been driven down to zero, a central bank can no longer use its traditional means of stimulating aggregate demand and thus will be operating in less familiar territory. The central bank's inability to use its traditional methods may complicate the policymaking process and introduce uncertainty in the size and timing of the economy's response to policy actions. Hence I agree that the situation is one to be avoided if possible.

However, a principal message of my talk today is that a central bank whose accustomed policy rate has been forced down to zero has most definitely not run out of ammunition. As I will discuss, a central bank, either alone or in cooperation with other parts of the government, retains considerable power to expand aggregate demand and economic activity even when its accustomed policy rate is at zero. In the remainder of my talk, I will first discuss measures for preventing deflation--the preferable option if feasible. I will then turn to policy measures that the Fed and other government authorities can take if prevention efforts fail and deflation appears to be gaining a foothold in the economy."

Sarah Palin should replace Hank Paulson immediately. She's more entertaining on TV, and she inspires the same level of confidence.

Doesn't the new fed power incorporated in the bailout (er. financial stabilization) bill to pay interest on reserve balances alter the situation?

Cutting rates doesn't necessarily mean they're adding liquidity (they're shovelling it out as fast as they can, thank you very much), so it would be more cosmetic than anything. Doing the Sunday-before-Asia thing might solicit a twitch from the kitty, but doesn't that risk a "hey-wait-a-minute" reaction on Monday?

Another cut is the panic button and could spook markets. Rates are already negative and they are flooding the marketplace with dollars. But Bernanke has a slinky for a spine.

Europe will be intersting to watch. The fledgling fragile European Union could break apart. Great Britain was out ahead because they wanted to have authority of its monetary policy. I wonder if it holds together through the end of the year.

Can I put my bullet in my gun now, Andy?

Hahaha! Excellent reference.

Cut to zero, call ourselves the next Japan, start printing, and move on. I don't like them dragging this thing out.

"The Asians salivate with dry powder accumulating assets."

But those assets keep on depreciatin'.
Yin and yang.

If the Fed cuts any further I'll be pulling $$ out of TreasuryDirect and sticking it into Federally-insured bank CDs and the newly fed-insured money-market funds.

This might be a good way to get the flight to quality reaction to subside and encourage people to find private-market uses for their assets again.

Certainly the last place we want the nation's capital is in owning ever-increasing amounts of government debt ... unless it's to buy out the foreign investors who are now exerting too much influence on our domestic policy -- it's about time we bought our freedom back.

On the other hand, the timing is clearly not right yet. Too close to the non-bailout bailout...

Who gets the nukes when the fel'l govt. goes belly up?

They are running out of pellets.
What happens when they get to 0%???
Can the fed pay you to borrow money LOL. Let's make it -5%.

This is a deleveraging/insolvency issue not a credit crunch issue. Not sure if the fed can help at all. But of course they will try.

Trillion will be the new Billion soon.

Got GOLD????

Once the decision has been made, to shut your ears even to the best counter-arguments: a sign of a strong character. Also an occasional will to stupidity.

Nietzsche

Man, relax. Who on this board could not cut personal consumption in half and not be pretty happy?

Not quite related...

October is going to be an ugly month for 'insurance' contract settlements on credit default swaps:
Another Reason for Cash Hoarding: Big Credit Default Swaps Market Test Imminent « naked capitalism

Good commentary here, too, on it:
TickerForum Error - Unauthorized Request

I would not be surprised by anything this "radical Fed" (hat tip Steve Randy Waldman) does. Look at what they have already done. Setser says that they have about 1.25 Trillion dollars out in liquidity moves already.

I would not be surprised, but the market will be, and nothing I write here will diminish that. Dr. Bernanke's push for the TARP seldom gets so much as a mention on these fora, but his testimony supported Secretary Paulson unconditionally.

The Fed is propping up a shaky worldwide system and while I don't presume to know anything about what their plans are, I just hope they do what is needed when it is needed.

BTW, it usually takes me about three days after a new Fed initiative to figure out what happened, so don't assume I have anything but public information to go by.

They will not pre announce a rate cut. They will save it for a precipitous fall. Which will come quite soon. I believe its called a legislative bottom.

If I am getting less than 2% in a bank account why would I keep cash in a bank?

Treasury is going BK, thus, dropping the FF rate towards zero in order to re-gain trust and to build confidence, is like dropping unlimited amounts of worthless cash to all the people of Zimbabwe who need real cash that has value. The process and act of putting on a show will have as much impact as watching Congress toss $777+ billion in a black hole. Lower rates globally is not going to jump start anything but a news headline.

So tell me, what will a rate cut do, who will it help, how will it help, what happens with lower rates, i.e, who will come forward to borrow money for half a percent less, when no one was willing to lend two days ago? Is the rate cut a big enough reward to decrease risks of borrowing and lending? No way man, and I'm here to tell yah, the risk remains in the system and the lack of confidence can't be bought be a rate cut -- what the people want, are heads on poles and they want crooks dragged through mud and they want justice -- they don't care about some bait and switch deal from people that just took $8000 Billion!

We made it through the 21% rate correction and we'll get through this. We're smarter, more tolerant and we've got housing to burn.

Cutting the rate is a risky proposition ...

It might mitigate markets for a while or has been pointed out , it might be seen as a judgment on the Tarp and induce more fear.

I see little benefit so soon after the Bailout. Of course we know that the bailout will not clear the credit markets for months if then .... and in those months lie land mine after land mine ...

I don't see a happy ending ...

Kona,
You get a Howls of Derisive Laughter for the Treasury going BK.

How can they?

They just push the button and make another Trillion.

With these ridiculous tbill rates they should provide immense amounts of tbills until demand is totally satisfied.

Someday this war's gonna end...

Cut all they want it will not stop this train wreck and more then likely will only make it worse.

better idea

NIRP

negative interest rate policy

fed pays us to borrow money

BUT

the borrower must promise to

spend the money right away

bonus "points" given for
purchasing consumer durables

double extra bonus points given for purchasing real estate.

Hank and Ben went to dinner. Hank asks Ben: YouTube -

Folks,
I just read the section of the Bailout Bill relating to the TARP. The only change made between Monday and Friday was increasing the FDIC and NCUA insurance limits from $100k to $250k temporarily.

I suspected this and had wrote this yesterday; but I didn't actually believe it was true. Congress is out there pretending like they added a lot of oversight or made changes to the Treasury plan between Monday and Friday... various members gave speeches talking about the changes they made. Well those changes were all made prior to Monday's vote!

Basically this means the SIFMA call from Sunday night still stands regarding the TARP. I don't know if this is news or not, but I was just comparing the bills voting on in the Congressional Record. So now we know that the only change in the TARP was increasing the FDIC limits; and they are pretending like they added a bunch of oversight between now and then?!!

They think that we are fools and believe that the Monday vote was on the 3 page plan!

Iceland Destroys Europe!

it is always the little ones who suffer : Dynamics of Cats

I, for one, never would have suspected that the Land of Bjork and Sigur Ros would deal the fatal blow to the Continent. But then, I know nearly nothing. Smile

Pushing on a string is ineffective, but relatively
harmless.
Pushing on a rattlesnake's tale is dangerous.

It took Japan 13 years to re-build confidence -- to forgive the sins of the fathers and to allow shame and disgrace time to pass -- are these people so fucking stupid as think this derailed economic engine can be rebuilt and placed on the same track in a matter of days? They refuse to point blame at wall street, refused to disclose details in the bailout, and now everyone will screaming back to banks to refinance loans -- which will be based on higher FICOs, higher rates, higher down-payments, a tsunami of foreclosures, a systemic global banking collapse, un-precidented fraud and corruption, a shit election where no one wins? It would be retarded to use your last few bullets after this bailout bill, because if the bill fails, as it will, they need that fucking ammo for later when things to get worse -- not to mention the fact that lowering rates will increase inflationary pressures, which they obviously don't understand, i.e, when you have people with $800 million, like Paulson, he doesn' t care if groceries are too high, or the cost of living is out of control -- because his focus is to help wall street get more, and more, and more....

Cookie break...

"Another cut is the panic button and could spook markets. Rates are already negative and they are flooding the marketplace with dollars."

unless it can impact mortgage rates significantly then it doesn't matter,and even then its on a stop gap.
Credit deflation is on a search and destroy mission and finding daily targets, grim future for inflated assets.

What can we do with the empty houses to make them useful? Burn them for heat? Raise produce on the lawns? What is it that the unemployed ex bankers, mortgage brokers and real estate agents are doing now to produce in this economy. Are they still inputting numbers into their inaccurate spread sheet models justifying the next no doc, 120 % loan to value adjustable rate loan on an over appraised house?

I suppose we can continue to fiddle with the funny paper that has unknown value in the hope that a recession can be avoided or minimized. How long can this be propped up?

It ticks me off that we are now in this wrench twiddling mode trying to repair the broken tractor of the economy, when what could have been done to prevent this would have to been to properly change the oil and keep the cooling system working to prevent the overheating of the engine of the tractor.

I suppose action will be taken, but it is not clear an adjustable wrench can fix a seized credit piston.

, for one, never would have suspected that the Land of Bjork and Sigur Ros would deal the fatal blow to the Continent. But then, I know nearly nothing

Risk players know not to ignore Iceland.

With much of the Fed's reserves tied up, it will be even more challenging for them to enforce the target rate.

What can we do with the empty houses to make them useful?

lower the fucking prices

Who cares what one-day effect the rate cut has on the stock market?

The market has rallied several times on these "surprise" cuts, but it didn't stop the market from falling 25% or more over the last year. The rate cuts don't seem to have any long-term effects, so I don't see the point whether it is a surprise or not.

It seems to me that in this environment, surprise rate cuts also add to the general panicked feeling that things are really bad (which they are).

With the all the talk of the PPT and other conspiracies, what has the net result been? A huge decline in the market. Maybe short-term swings in the stock market can be manipulated, but over the longer term, the manipulation attempts all fail.

What can we do with the empty houses to make them useful?

Hydroponics, cash crops.

Ministry of Truth writes:
If I am getting less than 2% in a bank account why would I keep cash in a bank?


Well, the banks would be forced to continue to pay some interest since they don't want to lose all deposits... but some deposits leaving treasury bills and bank deposits and floating back into commercial paper probably would not be a bad thing.

And, if you took the money out of the system and spent it - well, that is just being patriotic (joke - but certainly not viewed as such by many).

Only thing you can be SURE of that will happen after the rate cuts is that anyone now trying to get any kind of return through cash will get kicked in the nuts once more, for good measure.

So you can imagine how this will effect the election. Seniors are an important voting block. And they are going to see Republicans basically saying screw you, you get spanked again.

Other than that, it is basically string pushing at this point.

My guess is that the administration would prefer they not do this, but if they are doomed to do it in late October, that is still before the election, so I dont see how they avoid the cut at some point. And Im sure they will think that sooner works better, because a surprise will give some lift to the markets, possibly, where as at the meeting, the likelihood that it is a letdown is greater. No matter...

All your 401k are belong to us.

If I am getting less than 2% in a bank account why would I keep cash in a bank?

The 90-day rate at treasurydirect.gov isn't worth the goddamn hassle of their security login decoder and Javascript password entry BS.

"What can we do with the empty houses to make them useful?"

Word of the Year for 2009: Squatting.

The most effective plan for the market would be what Mauldin suggests

Europe and Japan are also probably in recession, and it is likely we are going to see a worldwide global slowdown. It would be nice if the European Central Bank, the Bank of England, and the Fed could coordinate a joint rate cut to signal that they are working together on the problems. I would not want to be short the markets that day.

"Almost all those who cared seem convinced that they understood what was going on; Every single day brought occurrences that lay completely outside their forecast, but they could not figure that they had not forecast them" N.N. Taleb, "The Black Swan"

These guys have no idea what they're doing.

These guys have no idea what they're doing.

To their credit, I think they know it.

The true cluelessness was committed 2002-2005.

BR writes:
The most effective plan for the market would be what Mauldin suggests

Mauldin has been wrong, wrong, wrong all the way so far. He is an arrogant dweeb with an over priced office in a baseball stadium. He should not be listened to. He has too much money, too many soon to be fleeced 'friends' and a lifestyle that suits the unconvicted felons of Wall Street.

When do the show trials begin?

A rate cut is not going to help and is only for building confidence. I bet they are going to need a confidence builder more desperately in a month or two. Why waste the last pathetic bullet now!

These chicken and egg arguments are endless. Everything is connected and cyclical. Credit doesn't magically create productivity. If there are no new ideas it just "revolves", forcing interest rates up. Artificially keeping rates low is dumb. If you must print to avoid disaster spread it equally. Starving the working class helps no one. China will get their fair share if they will consume already and lend back to us the rest at a decent rate.

Re: You get a Howls of Derisive Laughter for the Treasury going BK.
How can they?

See Credit Default Swaps: The amount of contracts outstanding that reference Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac alone is estimated to be up to $500bn. The default was triggered under the terms of derivatives contracts by the US government's seizure of the mortgage groups, even though the underlying debt is strong after the explicit government guarantee.

In continuation of above, what the hell is it that people who are not now in the bubble building business because of the burst bubble going to do in this economy? If this spreads to main street as credit markets freeze and goes into the broader economy what the hell is the plan to get that part of the economy working again? No one is talking about this yet. There are already people unemployed and the only solution so far is to lower interest rates and have the taxpayer buy up paper that the financial institutions do not want to sell at prices the market wants to pay to avoid writedowns. Give the recently unemployed a hoe and let them work in the fields or repair infrastructure or produce something tangible.

FedFunds were already .67 on Friday.

Hell, make it 0% and learn Japanese

Too low interest rates got us into this mess, so too low rate are going to get us out? What crap and nonsense. I doubt an interest rate cut will do anything. It sure won't restore confidence or depleted capital. It will seem hysterical. Is that what Bernie wants? Well he probably is hysterical anyhoo. And helpless.

Re: It seems to me that in this environment, surprise rate cuts also add to the general panicked feeling that things are really bad (which they are).

I agree $777 Billion! The time for a rate cut is later and to add fear and emergency into this is stupid! How many Emergency Rate Cuts has Bernanke done already and to what effect

It won't happen, but I would love to see New York state declare credit default swaps issued in the state to be gambling and therefore void as contrary to public policy. These bets are obviously not insurance or they would be regulated as such.

Bank holiday rumor:

Is Bank Of America Warning Of A Bank Holiday?

This one has quite a few good comments under the article, ranging from "There is no way a BH would ever happen" to "Get ready, here it comes, maybe as soon as Monday."

To me, the idea of a week-long shutdown seems too extreme. However, we've entered the period when almost all of the formely-ridiculous prognostications are coming true. Who knows?

Well since the bailout plan is meant to capitalize banks by buying toxic ARM's at the "MARKET" (??) price; it seems logical a Fed cut will serve to decrease this toxic leverage, lower the default risk and create a better market for these MBS.

They cut soon.

What can we do with the empty houses to make them useful?"

Word of the Year for 2009: Squatting.

1) Take over all insolvent banks
2) Let prices go to freefall
3) Inventory reaches equilibrium.

Sorry if you mistimed your trade. The good news: houses are at an all time level of affordability.

The most alarming recent event was that after the "savior" package was passed by the House the stock market went down, not up. In short the patient isn't responding to the medicine at all, and the doctors don't have any better medicines. Or if they do they won't use them.

To surprise the market, the Fed might need to cut by at least 50 bps - maybe 75 bps - and announce the action before the market opens on Monday.

More aggressive government intervention in our "free markets" to prop up asset prices?

Reason suggests similar results to what we are currently seeing now.

Do the same thing.

Expect the same outcome.

The absolute dumbest thing would be to let them sit and rot. We burned food once.

Bob Dylan had it right!

They say that patriotism is the last refuge
To which a scoundrel clings.
Steal a little and they throw you in jail,
Steal a lot and they make you king.
There's only one step down from here, baby,
It's called the land of permanent bliss.
What's a sweetheart like you doin' in a dump like this?

YouTube -

Nationalize, nationalize, nationalize. It's the only weapon left. Nationalize the teetering institutions, right now, not ifs ands and buts. Just do it.

The short sellers can be landlords. We need a job now anyway.

We were all taught to view the Hawley-Smoot tariff bill as so stupid, Now we have our own generation's example of doing something just for the sake of being able to say we did something. The Bail Out Pig!

"The absolute dumbest thing would be to let them sit and rot. We burned food once."

Oh yes corn was burned to heat houses in the depression.

Anon, I repeat:
No BK for Treasury.

As for the Credit Default Swaps.
I foresee this crisis will be long dead and gone and the lawyers will still be arguing about technical default and adequate performance of now fully guaranteed bonds.

What default? They still payin', right?

Someday this war's gonna end...

A well-written summary of the current phase of the crisis, focusing on the events of Sept 16 and 17:

| New London and southeastern Connecticut | The Day newspaper | www.theday.com

This is useful for those who are relatively new to this site and need some background, complete with names and numbers.

I meant the insane attempt to prop food prices, of course.

The sun will heat these houses, as it has all houses in Israel for 40 years. That will eat a big chunk of inflation. That legislative pork was a miracle.

Nationalize banks, start New Deal 2.0 featuring the WPA 2.0 and CCC 2.0 and RTC 2.0 and HOLC 2.0, and - most urgently - give Rob Dawg a 0% loan to start-up his hydroponics business. Then inhale until things feel better.

None of this will happen until 2009, and only then if we don't elect little Ms Dick Cheney.

The failures of Paulson's efforts will provide political justification for doing the right things, and that alone will be worth however much of the $700B we don't get back (most of it probably will be paid back).

No oil for Iceland !

trouble ....

About 4 years ago, when rates were low, I pulled cash out of savings to refinance my mortgage, so I got a lower 30 yr/fixed rate, then paid down my mortgage, used up some future cash flow, but obviously reduced my current cashburn. By playing one bank off another, I refused to get 1% interest on cash sitting in their bank and put the cash to use paying down the interest at the other bank. The key obviously was to have reserves and buy a house I could afford and to not take on more debt than I needed to; if I would have bought a Mcmansion, I'd be screwed now, just like a lot of greedy people are!

Anonymous

congratulations ...

If you haven't already, drop by the Prudent Bear site and take a look at Doug Noland's weekly column. A great summary of all the bad things that have been happening while our attention has been focused on the bailout.

BTW I was at home and watched the news last week.

This weekend I had a dream that the government was setting up stations where people could go to be euthanized because they calculated there was only enough food available to feed half the population.

I wonder what effect the terror campaign being waged by congress and Wall Street on the general public is going to have on consumption going forward.

With the endless media accounts of impending financial and economic collapse, I wonder if it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy in terms of consumer spending.

It would be ironic if the cost of this bailout bill is a consumer-driven economy where everybody is too afraid to consume.

this downturn has confounded experts and neutered responses all the way through, something like six months ago I wrote that the recession would find a way to be unlike anything anyone expected because if they expected it, it could be countered.

Someone teased me about that, mentioning the "amp that goes to 11".

I think this recession is going to one past that which Ben (or anyone else) thinks he can cope with. It has certainly been one step ahead of him the whole time so far. It is like his worst nightmare, gleefully following his academic paper ready to go off the end of the last paragraph.

Re: "No BK for Treasury"

The government will go on, I'm afraid your right there man, but as to it being a useful and trusted entity that is able to fulfill all its obligations to the common man? Will this ineffective and hollowed out zombie provide leadership in a time of chaos, when it depends on sucking blood from vampires that are running low on victims? How is it man, that these walking dead will build bridges and repair the infrastructure we share? These zombies depend on synthetic fuel and they want us to drink from the poison cup and go along for a drive to hell, but I'm not drinking brother and they can go to hell and stay there and clip Paulson's toenails and not worry about re-using condoms amongst themselves! I'm not going there, but you can join them at your leisure and pump all you want man!

Ira Glass on "This American Life" has been giving a brutal tutorial on this whole event. Its quality, depth, and insight is so superior to MSM it's almost criminal.

Rule one of a revolution is to gain control of media - except for the blogs and dark corners of progressive radio, the fascists have succeeded. All the CNBC carping is wasted breath.

Hit the tip jar here and support the free flow in one of the few forums available.

Doug Noland's weekly posts make Tanta's posts look like haiku.

El Cliffo,
Yeah, they can be pretty overwhelming. I often skip down to the last section & just read his summary.

Anon, whatever.

I have been quite early in my opposition to the current setup for quite a while.

Get a moniker and go back to read the archives here at CR.

Someday this war's gonna end...

What good will a rate cut do? It won't make 62 trillion in CDS's magically disappear. What a joke this administration is!

Good luck America!

I believe in Ben. When I was young I believed in Marx. (and still do - I just don't say it out loud) I need to believe in something.
P.S. I am so proud to be a liberal!

lawn grass,

You can buy stoves that burn corn pellets in the Midwest right now.

When there's nothing but corn around you, it seems like there's a lot of corn around you.

I bet they smell like Corn Chex factory fires.

The fledgling fragile European Union could break apart. Great Britain was out ahead because they wanted to have authority of its monetary policy.

Ooh, and they did such a good job of it too! British banks are the absolute model for sound lending and strong balance sheets. And a loose monetary policy encouraging a housing bubble? Pshaw, would never happen there.

Re: "Get a moniker and go back to read the archives here at CR."

I'm not allowed to have a permanent one, and I often add to those archives under many names.

In other news: Diagramming Sarah
CAN PALIN'S SENTENCES STAND UP TO A GRAMMARIAN?

The sentences of Sarah Palin, diagrammed. - By Kitty Burns Florey - Slate Magazine

It was the first time the EU appeared ready to invoke a 2005 clause that allows countries to bend the rules laid down in the Stability and Growth Pact if they fall victim to exceptional events outside their control.

EU leaders to ease deficit strictures due to crisis
| Reuters

Bye, Bye, SGP. I would expect a coordinated rate cut by several central banks around the world. It ain't gonna work but that is what I would expect at this point.

Anon,

Those sentences couldn't even stand up to Couric...

The fledgling fragile European Union could break apart. Great Britain was out ahead because they wanted to have authority of its monetary policy.

Yep. The tensions from a serious global recession are going to wreak havoc on international relations.

How many 700 billion dollar payments can we afford to make to China to keep the peace?

hope of shocking the credit markets back to life

sometimes an ER defibrilator can revive a stopped heart, but apply too much voltage and you might get Frankenstein: Palin's intelligence; Paulson's integrity; Tom Delay's ethics; John McCain's marital fidelity and martial honor; Bush's curiousity; Cheney's openness; and Karl Rove's positive campaigning.

We haven't even had ONE DAY of market reaction to the Big Shitpile Bailout and Wall Street is shieking for a rate cut. Give US a f*cking break...

Punchbowl Power Activate

News article in the Orange County Register said local school and water districts are asking the county investment fund to buy up their bonds until the market "returns to normal."

I really fear that money managers for these entities are making decisions based on the assumption that the market they have lost recently was "normal" and that it's only a short time 'til we return to it.

How much more trouble will be caused by a mindset that this is just a temporary problem rather than a fundamental structural change in credit?

Somewhere out there, a manager is making decisions based on the assumption that there will be no return to "normal", and that manager may bring whatever they manage through this mess rather better than others waiting for a return to normal.

Many of the houses built in the last 5 years are crap. They sit empty with no maintenance, and they will be crap even sooner. The rate cut won't matter. Not enough people can qualify to move the consumption needle.

Home Depot, resturant, the mall, and Dicks were as busy as usual. Well, Dicks was pretty dead. I think people are going to be sandbagged when the SHTF in America.

One of the reasons is the fragmentation of society. No common language, news sources, and specific goals. If my neighbors goal is making enough cash to go back to El Salvador, India, or Vietnam they are functioning on the same wave length as others. They watch their programing from home, eat and buy from their resturants and shops. That is half the population of my county.

". . .by affecting asset prices and returns, policymakers try to modify economic behavior in ways that will help to achieve their ultimate objectives."

And what are the policymakers' ultimate objectives? Naturally, that would be world domination.

It's one thing to be oppressed by the aristocrats--that's what they always do. But it's especially infuriating to have the markets corrupted by elitist snobs--epitomized by that nutty professor, that creepy bearded bureaucrat, that snotty bald nerd named Ben Bernanke.

A Depression is everywhere and at once a Bernanke phomenon.

That earlier exchange on China's prospects? The Economist has a fresh take - a link from Yves:

Premium content | Economist.com

Most people, particularly those living outside China, assume that the country's phenomenal growth and increasing global heft are based on a steady, if not always smooth, transition to capitalism. Thirty years of reform have freed the economy and it can only be a matter of time until the politics follows.

This gradualist view is wrong, according to an important new book by Yasheng Huang . . .

Nova,

I've heard claims that fragmentation will be key to getting some areas through this mess relatively--relatively--unscathed because that diversity equates to a ton of "little markets", some of which might not be burned as badly.

Nature loves redundancy. The most specialized predators are the first to go after a disturbance. E.g. sabre-tooth cat, flightless birds, mega-fauna of N. America.

The most redundant human system I know of is the space shuttle, and it only has three layers of redundancy in its systems. And it has experienced system failures twice in three decades.

Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire
by Chalmers Johnson

His chilling conclusion--backed by copious and livid detail--is that a nation reaps precisely what it sows.

Yup !

Sarah Palin's "sentences" aren't even sentences. It's time to call gibberish what it is: gibberish.

If we have it bad those french surrender monkeys must have it worse...right? American exceptionalism even in the midst of the collapse of anglo-american financial engineering.

Interesting Items:
My wife has no inkling of economics or politics agreed with me tonight (we never agree) that we should pull all our money out of the bank on Monday. Trust is gone. The only thing that concerns me is the worth of green paper dollars at the end of next week.

"Empire of Debt" should be mandatory in school. Check that, nothing should be mandatory in schools. Fragmentation gives us variety of perspective. Tell me you haven't learned more from this blog than CNBC and then say you want "common sources of news". I'll agree to socialize profits, but the free market for ideas stays open permanently.

by affecting asset prices and returns, policymakers try to modify economic behavior in ways that will help to achieve their ultimate objectives.

The arrogance of this statement is astounding.

How can anyone believe that a dozen people can best determine the economic behavior of 300 million citizens?

Chalmers Johnson is definitely worth reading.

The rate cut won't matter. Not enough people can qualify to move the consumption needle.

They might as well cut to zero at this point. It's not going to be inflationary without another bubble.

Sarah Palin and Her Witchdoctor

YouTube -

How can anyone believe that a dozen people can best determine the economic behavior of 300 million citizens?

I believe it's called "socialism".

So this will just make official the rate cut they have been using for a few weeks now?

There is really no law preventing the FEDs to cut the rates to lets say (- 1%), right? they can do that.

Instead of banks paying interest, banks will collect interest from the FED.

That would be the day Smile

s_puttnick | 10.04.08 - 7:39 pm

Good points, worth thinking about.

I went back and read Bernanke's "deflation" speech linked above. It seemd like the thing to do with all that has happened since last I'd read it.

Wow, the hubris is truly astounding. He actually thinks he can "fix" the economy by pushing and pulling on his little levers. He only discusses deflation as "falling prices". What we have now, is destruction of the modern form of money (ie. credit) on a massive scale. The PTB allowed the debt and paper promises in our economy to grow so large that now it simply cannot be supported. To top it off trust is GONE.

I believe we are at that "Minsky moment". It was inevitable that we would arrive here, only a matter of when.

The Federal Reserve is between a rock and a hard place. Every attempt to print has been met with soaring commodity prices.

The US may not want to honor it's debts but it has to eat. Savers are telling the debtors of the world that they are going to pay one way or another.

The Fed's new abilility to pay interest on reserves creates a new wrinkle. With thier new powers there really isn't anything they can do at ZIRP that they can't now do while keeping interest rates above inflation.

They might as well cut to zero at this point. It's not going to be inflationary without another bubble

I'm not so sure. Negative real interest rates cause strange behavior. Additionally, corporate borrowing rates have been rising significantly for over a year. That looks like inflation (on a CPI) basis to me.

"How can anyone believe that a dozen people can best determine the economic behavior of 300 million citizens?

I believe it's called "socialism"."

No, that's totalitarianism, which can call itself anything.

We voted for this group, and we a have a rare chance to send them a message. We are more than a dozen.

I understand now. I should charge eveything and make a minimal payment on the credit card. If I'm lucky, I'll die or go bankrupt before my credit is cut or I can no longer make the minimal payment.

OK. Palin.

I've met people like Gov. Palin. I've never been able to discover whether their difficulty arises in formulating a complete idea, or if there's a barrier for them between cogent thought and its expression. They may be possessed of an undisciplined mind, or actually aphasic.

Certainly in either case it's not a choice.

It was . . . what? Cynical? to place her in this position. Certainly it was cruel to her. And shows a disturbing smallness of mind on the part of the RNC.

I'm guessing they want to hold off on any cuts as long as they can, because cutting will expose their impotence. The longer they can hold out the hope that cuts will have meaningful impacts, the longer people will believe the Fed has any bullets left in their gun. They really don't want the majority catching on to the fact that the emperor is naked.

Savers are telling the debtors of the world that they are going to pay one way or another.

Exactly. The cost of money is rising. GS & GE just raised money at 10% with warrants thrown in as a deal sweetner.

Joe six pack is dreaming if he thinks low rates and easy borrowing terms will return.

News article in the Orange County Register said local school and water districts are asking the county investment fund to buy up their bonds until the market "returns to normal."

Which of course leaves the companies or municipalities whose bonds get sold even further up the creek, causing them to make similar demands on local investment funds, putting somebody else up the creek...

It's a kind of a financial version of Smoot-Hawley.

Burnside-
It was the extreme evangelicalism types who forced Palin onto the ticket after Rove vetoed McCain's preference for Lieberman.

Burnside, I assume you've drawn your conclusions from the highly-edited interviews of Palin done by Gibson and Couric.

But I don't think it's perfect English you want. You probably would have recoiled at having the late William F. Buckley in office, too.

OT,

Bloomberg: Job Losses Pushing U.S. Economy Into `Significant' Recession

The credit flow appears to be a trickle,'' said former Fed governor Lyle Gramley, now senior economic adviser at the Stanford Group Co. in Washington.If that persists, we'd be seeing job losses of 300,000 to 400,000 a month and consumer spending collapsing.''

Ooof, thats gonna leave a mark !

"It was . . . what? Cynical? to place her in this position"

Uhhh, how about shrewdly calculated. The target audience is J6P in middle flyover America. Those that are disinclined to vote for a black that sports a muslim middle name. Those characteristics won't get lost on the GOP apparatus as the end of Oct draws near. We may see the nastiest campaign ever.

Polls are entirely meaningless for this election, since the determining factor behind pulling the lever for McCain won't be disclosed in a polling interview for the bulk of voters.

Take the Palin bashing elsewhere, please.

I don't see any need for an emergency string push. Cool out, Ben!

Coordinated rate cut? Japan is the 2nd largest economy, right ? Where does their part of the coodinated rate cut fit in ?

My faith would start to be restored with a large rate increase.

First.
homedad43 | Homepage | 10.04.08 - 6:02 pm | #

rats.
homedad43 | Homepage | 10.04.08 - 6:03 pm | #

Saying first when you not condemns you to 7 years of very bad luck.

"long Yen, they are paying savers better than America. and they are not panicking, they are the buyers now."

Finally, a yen for Yen.

To surprise the market

If it hasn't been said before: Fuck the market(s). They just got a $700B bailout.

Cliffo, no.

The most complete impression I've had is from a Philip Gourevitch New Yorker article which included several extended quotations, more background than I've seen elsewhere, and which presented her in a broader context than I think Couric would have taken time for or would have been inclined to attempt.

Bearly, that's what I object to probably most. It's placing her in an untenable position, and it demeans and trivializes the electoral process. Political entropy.

I think a rate increase would help inflation and since wall street just got $800 B, that would be fair!

Getting what it deserves

When a country elects bad politicians it deserves a recession. It’s the only way to knock some sense into its constituents. That’s the current situation in the US, but unfortunately the whole world will suffer

It reminds me of the Roman Empire.

Getting what it deserves - Robert Gottliebsen - News - Business Spectator

LOL, the rest of the world isn't stupid, they see this whole scam for what it is.

I expect coordinated action tomorrow or Monday AM at the latest. They may wait for the futes to open, but I suspect the credit markets have their greater attention.

Peter-san
Thanks for recommending reading Bernanke's speech on deflation from 2002.
Speech, Bernanke --Deflation-- November 21, 2002
It has taught me that my nuclear family is (as a result of blind dumb luck and lifelong stingyness of mine Wink positioned correctly for a period of general deflation. By Ben's description of what to look for when deflation comes, everything I see going on points in that direction. Whocudanode? Wife says the 1987 movie "Wall Street" is on PBS @ 9 PM.
I remember Gordon GEICO and "greed is good". I spent 25 years as a local yocal in East Hampton, moved to WV in '02 to get away from that type. It's taken 20 years for the mess to hit the fan...but it's in the face now.
If not for CR, I wouldn't bother turning the computer on most days. Thanks for the education in these arcane matters. I know a little knowledge is a dangerous thing...I'm the posterboy for that! Thank mother nature I'm not in charge. I don't want that job.

If Paulson were fired or resigned (or preferrably arrested) and you could become Treasury Secretary for the next 3 months, what actions would you take that would be in the best long-term interests of most American?

citizen yogi writes: The sun will heat these houses, as it has all houses in Israel for 40 years.

Israel is on a par latitude wise with Phoenix. If Israel is your strongest suit I suspect the whole argument is weak.

Try solar panels in Minnesota when it's 40 below zero and the sun hasn't shined for three weeks, and when it finally does there's only 6 hours of daylight per day.

When the technology is cost efficient and doesn't look ugly, clumsy, or stupid like wind farms, solar panels, or Priuses, it will sell just fine.

Sorry Ben...

JoeB writes:
If Paulson were fired or resigned (or preferrably arrested) and you could become Treasury Secretary for the next 3 months, what actions would you take that would be in the best long-term interests of most American?
JoeB | 10.04.08 - 8:49 pm | #

Hire Paulson to handle the mess.

If I were T-SEC I would immediately give Sheila Bair the job and a raise from my own pocket!

Check out this solution to the coming housing crisis: PARKHOTEL

Beats cardboard. Look comfy and secure, too.

for some reason the threat level appears to have been increased from yellow to orange (high)

they claim routine election time response

could be, or?

http://www.dhs.gov/xinfoshare/programs/Copy_of_press_release_0046.shtm

Perhaps all we have here is a bit of gaming the market before they goose it, i.e, build up hope and then "give them what they want" as a sort of snort of cocaine, which is all they want anyway.

If The Fed can hang that cocaine carrot in front of the horse, it may pull them along until The Fed has its meeting anyway. America is burned out from this soap opera of bullshit anyway, so shocking a dead horse makes no sense -- talk about cocaine in the news and spin the amount of how much, but drag it and bait everyone! Why spoil the fun and then kill the patient too fast, this is like torture and these guys shouls understand all about that!

Looks to me like they already cut their overnight target more than two weeks ago:

Federal Funds Rate Data - Federal Reserve Bank of New York 

A 1% drop is probably about right... they need to shake the hell out of the banks..

Memo from Bernake to all Bank Managers:

"Led damnit or I'll make your kids go to community college!"

Palin is the elected governor of a state, and a demonstrated reformer, not one of the effete contributors to Talk of the Town. She's comfortable in her position, as the debate showed. Please try to ignore the smears--one day, The New Yorker, another day Slate (a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Washington Post), and another day an insult from Chris Matthews--who said Palin responded at the debate as if she was at a spelling bee.

Actually, Joe Biden was put in an awkward position. In the debate, he completely blew the description of the Vice-President's function, which is to preside over the Senate, not just when there's a tie vote. Biden couldn't even get the job description right of the office he seeks to hold. As for his Cheney remark, it was laughable. The most dangerous Vice-President in history wasn't Cheney, but Vice-President Aaron Burr, who shot and killed Alexander Hamilton in a duel.

The Fed's charter allows it to loan to individuals, too.

Lawngrass
asks above what to do with all the empty houses.
Buy them up and give them away to homesteaders. It is better that they are used then trashed.
Homesteading will keep speculators away inthat you have to live there and improve the property. This way at least taxes will be paid etc.

Nemo writes:
Looks to me like they already cut their overnight target more than two weeks ago:

Well not the target but don't you think they might as well announce a cut? Probably get a bounce and maybe even start an interbank lending spree. It's a thought.

Hell! Just change the old ratio of lending 5 out for 6 back to 6 out for 5 back.I'm starting to think that all the world's leaders don't just believe in the Mayan 2012 endtime,but KNOW that it's true and are just kicking the can down the road until then!

Hell! Just change the old ratio of lending 5 out for 6 back to 6 out for 5 back.I'm starting to think that all the world's leaders don't just believe in the Mayan 2012 endtime,but KNOW that it's true and are just kicking the can down the road until then!

Hank Paulson and the Treasury Department are engaging in the most massive tax fraud in the history of the United States by devising a “sham” acquisition structure for Fannie and Freddie which will arguably allow these failed entities to take approximately $80 Billion in tax deductions per year. This tax fraud dwarfs any scheme in history. Why did the acquisition of Fannie involve warrants for exactly 79.9% of the common stock at a price of .00001 dollars per share (essentially zero though by the time Bernanke and Paulson get done debasing the dollar in a manner which would make Stalin and Mao proud, it may be less than zero)? Well, Section 163(Crazy(6) provides that if a related exempt organization (the Treasury Department) controls a corporation (in this case Fannie) and the exempt organization guarantees the debt of such corporation, the interest expense on such guaranteed debt is nondeductible (or subject to severe limitations) for tax purposes. Treasury has clearly guaranteed the debt of Fannie as defined under section 163(Crazy(6)(D)(iii). Related person is defined under section 267(b) which provides the corporation must be controlled by Treasury. Control is generally defined by the IRS as owning 80% of the corporation. Thus, Hank and Treasury hope to evade taxes on $80 Billion of income per year based on acquiring only 79.9% of Fannie and thus, defeat their own tax law notwithstanding Treasury effectively owns 100% of Fannie. Interestingly, the Treasury actively throws commoners in jail for life for interpreting the tax law literally as the Treasury argues the non tax paying miscreants violated the spirit of the law under the so called economic substance doctrine (an undefined vague legal concept universally interpreted differently by most courts). In fact, a literal interpretation of 163(Crazy via its underlying regulations specifically requires that the transaction be analyzed based on the substance of the acquisition under the 1.957-2 regulations which is a catch all provision for any legal machinations to avoid the tax law. Most of the dudes Treasury puts in jail for life for interpreting the tax law literally are using tax laws which have no literal corollary to 163(Crazy (i.e., no legal requirement to look at the substance of the transaction). Hank Paulson may be the biggest tax fraudster in history: not only did he avoid taxes on $100 million of his Goldman stock through the use of 100% controlled private foundations; illegally change the law under Section 382 to provide tax benefits in the realm of $750 Billion to his friends on Wall Street (which under Section 7201 is likely tax evasion (the intentional violation of tax law to avoid taxes)); but now he is engaging in further tax fraud to the tune of $80 Billion of tax deductions per year (for interpretations of the tax law Treasury sends people to prison for life over) yet again for the benefit of his buddies on Wall Street. If Hank was judged by the same standards he judges others, Hank would have to go to jail for life (notwithstanding all of the securities fraud he has engaged in).

If $700b TARP caused Dow to plunge 400 points intra-day, why would a 75 bp cut change anything? It would certainly seem like desperation. Who would benefit from a cut when LIBOR is reaching new highs every day? Please CR, hope you see the TARP is not the beginning of the end, if you have any idea how bad it is out there now, the only conclusion is the final cardiac arrest is just around the corner.

Didn't they say that they hoped to drown the fed'l govt. in the bathtub? What better way than saddling it with impossible debt.

Among the focal points for how the financial crisis unfolds is whether U.S. financial institutions can sell their bad assets to the U.S. government at prices high enough to forgo the booking of additional losses, he said.

Ueno said there is also the problem of a U.S. political vacuum as Congress adjourns for a month until the Nov. 4 presidential election.

"It will be difficult for the U.S. government to respond to any new crisis, and this may add to the burden on the U.S. Federal Reserve in taking policy steps, including an emergency interest rate cut," he said.

Japan's financial chief welcomes passage | The Japan Times Online

I still think that the "credit crisis" is a lack of easy/cheap credit. People have been conditioned to this for several years now; so much so that they are like addicts and crave another fix. A 5% fed rate and mortgages between 6% and 7% is normal.

Why@ ZIRP --

By "target", I mean what they are aiming for, not what they announce they are aiming for.

Actually, I am not sure they even have a target at this point. They seem to be just pumping in liquidity without regard for the overnight rate...

So any change in the announced target will be a formality. Presumably, they are waiting until they think it would have the most psychological impact.

Gordon Brown must grasp the nettle of the financial crisis
Comment: editorials, opinion and columns - Telegraph

The air is already swimming with fevered speculation about a new world financial deal: a Bretton Woods for the 21st century; a blue print for tomorrow's financial system; an inspirational plan for an international financial regulator to ensure that nothing like this happens again.

It now looks very much as if Paulson is heading down the Nordic route. So too are a number of European countries, although judging by the emergency summit called by President Sarkozy in Paris yesterday, they still haven't made up their mind whether to launch a co-ordinated rescue plan or tackle the crisis state by state. Most likely they will fall on the latter. It is difficult enough to justify spending public money on a domestic bail-out, let alone one for another country.

Which brings us to the UK. As eyes sweep round the table in Washington this week, they will undoubtedly pause when they reach Alistair Darling. He and Gordon Brown have stuck out like a sore thumb for their relative inaction. Before last week this might have been applauded as sure-footedness, but not now.

The British economy is arguably among the most vulnerable of all, and yet its policymakers have done less than almost all their peers to try to mitigate the disaster. Already the effects of the credit crunch are apparent. House prices and mortgage lending have slumped more dramatically than in recorded history; unemployment has started to rise; the economy is almost certainly slipping into recession.

An inter-meeting rate cut may not help the economy directly, but it will reverse the downward trend in the markets. And that may be all that's needed until adults take over the reigns of economic and political power in January (and no, I don't mean Ms. Gosh-darn-you-betcha-Palin).

Well, you don't make an economy work by 'shocking' it. Just the opposite.
Further, the Fed knows full well that if they make a one point cut, that is their last bullet. All their cuts today, accompanied by all those short-live stock market surges, have done nothing worthwhile and there is no reason to believe another one will be different.
The biggest lesson so far is that the Fed is relatively powerless in the world today... and the next lesson will be that the Treasury Department, even with a well-funded dictator handing out money to his pals, is also powerless.
This ship is going to go where the tides carry it.

When the technology is cost efficient and doesn't look ugly, clumsy, or stupid like wind farms, solar panels, or Priuses, it will sell just fine.

Where do I start? You can't afford beautiful. Priuses are outselling everything. The population has left Minnesota and Michigan. Solar technology has improved in the last 40 years. At the rate we're printing, oil will be $300/barrel before the first frost in Minnesota, even without global warming.

El Cliffo writes:
Palin is the elected governor of a state, and a demonstrated reformer, not one of the effete contributors to Talk of the Town. She's comfortable in her position, as the debate showed.


mock talks back

uh huh

just like dubya was


El Cliffo wrote

The most dangerous Vice-President in history wasn't Cheney, but Vice-President Aaron Burr, who shot and killed Alexander Hamilton in a duel.
8:58 pm


back again

what? Burr only killed one !!!

hell darth chainie has him beat by thens of thousands in I-Rack alone.

starting a war of choice under false pretexts..

telling congress and the american people,,,

"We will in fact, be greeted as liberators... I think it will go relatively quickly... [in] weeks rather than months."

march 16 2002 meet the press

or this

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us."

On August 26, 2002, national convention of the Veteran of Foreign Wars


Palin and Burr together cant beat that

"El Cliffo writes:
Palin is the elected governor of a state, and a demonstrated reformer, . . . "

You're a retard.

El Cliffo - great points. It is funny that many of the Palin critics seem to be arguing for another Dick Cheney - which of course is the last thing they would want. Chris Matthews has completely lost it. I used to enjoy him even if I didn't always agree with him.

Palin is the elected governor of a state, and a demonstrated reformer, . . . "

you may not like her or her politics, but that is true...

I nominate a chicken with it's head cut off as the next federal reserve chairman and three blind mice for SEC oversight and the Wily coyote as the next treasury secretary.

Three dimensional solar cells -
3D Solar Cells Boost Efficiency While Reducing Size, Weight and Complexity of Photovoltaic Arrays | Georgia Tech Research Institute

So simple, even a 12 year old could and did do it -

12 Year Old Boy Invents New Type of Solar Cell : CleanTechnica

Look around, it will amaze you -
everybody's gotta learn sometime... (70's song?)

/nosnark

This is good: we ask for an accounting and diagram of where all the money is flowing. Krugman provided a nice summary of the circle in his blog. Then Setser hit us with a couple of great posts in the last few days summing up all the really big numbers and now Krugman again is giving us a macro view with flow charts of the Global situation.

CR even made a pilgrimage to Setserblog yesterday to clarify this and the flow of money between fed and treasury:

bake sale

The one things these guys don't cover though is what happens to the money when it leaves this not-closed system. We need an accounting and trail from the point it enters a company to the point it ends up in numbered offshore accounts and houses and yachts.

/end nosnark

"JoeB writes:
El Cliffo - great points."

El-Cliffo . . .oops . . . I mean JoeB -

Great point retard.

Kafka, Those are some very good points there. I'm afraid the only thing that's ever going to judge Paulson is history; it will judge him harshly, not that he cares.

Cliffo,

Not talk of the town. The NYer article was manifestly not what you imply. I've seen quite enough in the way of praise and blame - most of it on brioche grounds, as Buckley might say (from wherever he is today).

If you're saying the magazine has a NY liberal intellectual bias,which may be correct, then I suggest reading it only after adjusting your altimeter to that setting. Would you skip Montaigne because he's French? Dead? Catholic?

Look, you never get perspective on anything without looking at it from two or three credible points of view. That's a bit hard to find. Most of what's been linked from comments here on Mrs. Palin has either been unalloyed hagiography or mindless bashing.

NYer knocks merry hell out of that sort of 'information.

This is such a "half empty" group.

In order to get the "package" passed, they had to spend an entire week talking non stop about the current/next recession in great detail.

No one is talking about inflation and everyone thinks cash is good.

What better time to announce punishment for cash -- rate cut.

The only reason for not doing a cut earlier was the fear of inflation. Not much talk bout inflation now.

"The population has left Minnesota..."
Not all of us! We're doing fine here. We can grow corn and make ethanol to burn in our cars... and we do. We are, I think, the third-largest wind energy producer. Natural gas is almost universally used for home heating. The big power plants are nuclear or coal-fired, stoked by 100-car unit trains direct from Wyoming and Montana. We've got good schools, nice towns, and pretty progressive politics, though we do have a penchant for clowns and comedians in that profession.

"Anon, I repeat:
No BK for Treasury.

As for the Credit Default Swaps.
I foresee this crisis will be long dead and gone and the lawyers will still be arguing about technical default and adequate performance of now fully guaranteed bonds.

What default? They still payin', right?"

The first CDS clearing auction to settle CDS contracts is on Monday. Why do you think they are desperate to get 700B in cash to the Treasury by Monday?

Secondly, the FED is a private banking institution, remember that when you say they can't go BK. Also remember that at the end of the day the FED, as a private institution will decide to save itself, NOT the government and certainly not the citizens of this country.

Thirdly, you stated previously the FED can just "print" another trillion.

Care to explain the ramifications of true "printing"? You, as most people do, seem to ignore that side of the equation.

Remember, there is no free lunch, and yes there are limits to the amount of "printing" that can occur before foreign bond-holders sniff it out and crash our currency.

Re the debate, I was hopeful to see three things (seeking my usual lust for entertainment and disdain for actual news):

1) Joe Biden firmly insert his foot into his mouth while chewing vigorously.

2) Sarah Palin staring blankly onto the screen while thinking 'Oh, shit, oh shit, I didn't prep for that one'.

3) Gwen Ifil erupting into a nonsensical rant about how her fucking ankle hurts and you white people had better be nice to me, since she is on some powerful pain killers.

Alas, none of this occurred. Palin acquitted herself above the sophomoric standards we (collectively) set for her, Biden was uncharacteristically nice and Gwen seemed to have her meds in a 'well controlled efficacy level'.

But!

There were several moments where the rubber ran completely off the road for both of them. I'll mention just one or two, and spare you the rest. (As if you haven't already bailed on me.)

Palin refused to answer questions that challenged her. Instead she shifted to comfortable ground where she could appeal to her base. My wife made up a drinking game. Every time Palin said 'maverick' or 'team' she would take a shot of tequila. Sadly, she wasn't around for the full debate. She didn't pass out so much as she went to sleep real fast at about the forty-five minute mark.

Biden should receive an academy award for his performance when he was mentioning his child that died in an accident many, many years ago. Yes, he suffered a personal tragedy. We all do. But that lip biting incident where he nearly teared up was Clintonian. Give the man his statuette.

Gwen was masterful. I hope she makes a shitload of money on her book.

One side note. When Palin asked Biden 'Can I call you Joe?' she leaned in and whispered. I think that was when the special potion Cheney spritzed on her just prior to entering from off stage kicked in. It took Biden about fifteen minutes to really engage her.

Fed funds were around 1% late in the week even as they did some draining so a cut is certainly possible.

Wally,

Re: The biggest lesson so far is that the Fed is relatively powerless in the world today.

I agree, because obviously the days of Greenspan being able to stun the market with a few cleverly placed words or to move the rate up or down is a time that has come and gone. Bernanke lost respect early on, and now he is unable to provide stability or confidence.

UB,

How would you rate last week?

I think they could cut to minus 10% and it wouldn't do a darn thing. I don't think people believe any more.

Went canvassing for O. Yeah, I'm not thrilled with him, but for me, anything but McC. Anyway, upper middle class neighborhood. Only one discernable foreclosure based on lack of maintenance. One canvassee used the "n" word, once said the same thing more politely, some undecideds, some pro and con O, everybody very thoughtful, except the racists.

NOBODY mentioned the economy. One old vet said he hadn't decided, but was against McC because McC was against waterboarding (!). None we spoke to fit into any of the standard mainstream media boxes. Several were against O because of his stance on guns, and stated they were life members of the NRA--and the hub could say back that he was too. This is not an issue I care about too much, tho I understand lots of people do.

I find it passing strange that nobody mentioned the economy. I suppose all the people we spoke to were still doing relatively well.

McCain reminds me of the one guy at the nursing home everybody avoids because he's so freaking irritating.

Kona, here's how I feel about last week (see the photo on 2nd post, just under the Carob Tree Of The Week):

latimesblogs.latimes.com/laland

Nemo-

I agree with you, I am just amazed at how much money the Fed has pumped into the system. Still the interbank lending is virtually nil. The banks are going to have to resume business at some point or the Fed will give up on them or go around them.

I think the sign that the Fed has given up on the existing banks will be the nationalization of a megabank.

If they decide to go around them they will open a new facility to provide CP directly to businesses that use it for temporary liquidity. This would be an administrative nightmare for the Fed, loaning directly to individual businesses, but they do have a mandate to keep the economy going and they will do it.

Bankers best wake up and do something soon about the lockup or they will find their very existence threatened by an increasingly well capitalized (directly from the Treasury) and activist central bank.

The Fed has grown much more powerful in this crisis contrary to popular perception. Our Fed has combined forces with the foreign central banks to maintain trade in this crisis, if existing banks don't start cooperating and doing what they want they run the risk of being assimilated into a huge new central bank.

awyerliz writes: Went canvassing for O.

You experienced what you did because you did a canvass. The polls are usually either 'likely voters', or registered voters with some specific self identifier.

OT,

Berkshire Hathaway's investment in Goldman Sachs came with strings attached...

Goldman Executives Restrained From Stock Sales in Buffett Deal

The accord prevents the executives, their families and their estates from selling more than 10 percent of the common stock they own until Oct. 1, 2011, or until Berkshire redeems its $5 billion in preferred stock, whichever comes soonest.

Yah know,

It occurred to me tonight that The Auto-Bubble was a stealth or shadow bubble that kind of was an embedded bubble within The SubPrime Home-Owner-Ship Bubble.

No one has ever talked about the fact that car values were way out of touch with reality and you had a massive amount of people, e.g, 1 million per year, in America, buying over-valued cars, which drained cash from savings and added to the housing/foreclosure problem. This is really a period of a macro asset bubble, so once again, I think the bailout bill will pour cash down a black rat hole and miss the nature of this problem. Furthermore, this probably will be a rerun of Japan, in that it will take a decade or two for the wizards to find the right twist on the magic dust.

♥®

People say that Palin has a low IQ. I say SO? We don't need fancy pants elitists with their logic and reasoning. Hell, it was logic and reasoning that got us into this mess.

We need a plain old gal like Palin. If she aint smart enough, she can just ask a smart person what to do.

We sure cant have a muslin in Opal Office.

Check-out this Case-Schiller chart:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RPTAaOI4RN8/SOcJmEpYhEI/AAAAAAAAAUY/JvvfEPklJPc/s1600-h/homevalues1.gif

If we overshoot on the way down, we could go below 1997/8 levels.

Clever that Warren Buffett.

And yeah, the canvass was specifically to contact non-standard people. I suspect the "likely voters" are pretty non standard too, when you get right down to it.

I think my tagline will henceforth be:

There is no normal.

Great to hear it. Be proud of Franken, he's a lot smarter than the other actor/politicians. Sounds like you don't need a Wall Street bailout.

It is beyond my comprehension on why clients listen to John Mauldin. Fighting the last war has proven to be a good way to blow your life savings, your municipalities general fund, or your pension plan's balances.

I also can't figure out how the wanker guests on CNBC pay the bills, they have been dead wrong for a year and a half now, and they keep interviewing the same losers over and over again. These people are like the current administration, having no curiousity whatsoever about what is going on at the residential real estate level, the banking capital level, the corporate financing level or the Federal Reserve balance sheet level. And they all think the bailout plan is a winner. Epic fail would be a good outcome.

"There is no normal."

Got normal popcorn?

Muslin is a kind of fabric last time I looked.

lawyerliz: I went duck hunting once. I got talked into it by my brother-in-law. I shot one duck. I got hit by buckshot several times. It was raining and windy and cold. I never did that again. But I did it once.

I guess it's like milking a Jersey. If you want milk, you find a Holstein. If you want the experience, milk a Jersey.

kona-cookie: that photo debases Elmer's glue.

Very funny kona.

There is no normal, and if there were it wouldn't be Bush.

One of my canvasees said he had a higher IQ.

I don't really think Palin is stupid, but I think fundamentalism requires that you not take into account certain things and that freezes the brain.

The great thing about solar is that as efficiency improves, financing becomes more and more irrelevant, and the dividends are paid daily.

If I wanted a duck to eat, I'd buy it at the grocery store. I accept that as carnivores, we have to kill meat, but I don't particularly want to do it myself. Maybe you have to do your hunting on a horse, for it to really be fun. Certainly aristos have actually enjoyed hunting for millenia, so there must be something to it. What I don't know.

I like hunting the mighty factoid & telling people about it.

There is no normal, certainly not me!

Muslin is a kind of fabric last time I looked.

Maybe the earlier poster was saying electing Obama would be curtains for Bush's policies?

Short answer: Yes. They will have an emergency meeting, cut 50bp. The Oct 28-29 meeting will result in a further 25bp cut.

Why? Look at the effective overnight rate for Dec 31 2007-Jan 30 2008, we are replaying that exactly except there is less inflation, unemployment is worse, and banks really need that extra yield to generate more cash flow because SWFs are on the sidelines. Oh yeah, and we're going into an election and no one wants Citigroup to fail during one of those.

Beyond cutting to 1.25% the outlook is too hazy, what with government nationalizations and other treasury spending

I've been correct about every scheduled meeting for the last 2 years, so I figure I will up the ante (made the prediction around Sept 24th)

"We will in fact, be greeted as liberators... I think it will go relatively quickly... [in] weeks rather than months."

Give the guy a break. What he meant to say was "decades rather than centuries". An understandable slip of the tongue. He was probably drinking at the time and thinking about quail hunting.

Doubt it Fair, but maybe.

Hehehehe

Found on The London Banker blog:

"The bank was saved, but the people were ruined."
- Henry M. Gouge, circa 1830

I Love Cheerleaders writes: "People say that Palin has a low IQ. I say SO? .. We need a plain old gal like Palin. If she aint smart enough, she can just ask a smart person what to do. We sure cant have a muslin in Opal Office."

Hard to tell satire from seriousness on a Saturday night. I hope this was satire, because Palin is an unserious as it gets (and recycled myths about Obama are a close second).

No one has been interested in any of my links to FOMC operations yet, but Federal Funds Chart Chart of effective overnight rate. One click away from seeing info for day by day with min/avg/max/std dev

lawyerliz: I was doing a poor job of comparing your experience canvassing with duck hunting.

I did it once, won't do it again. But at least I can say i did it once.

Aw, never mind.

Synopsis of the new Palin Porn video
(courtesy AngryBear)

"Open on the PALIN residence, Wasilla, Alaska. Evening. Governor SARAH PALIN is sitting on the couch, reading "all of the magazines." She is wearing a satin negligee and bunny slippers..."

Nooooooo. They couldn't leave the Bunny Slippers concept alone, could they!

Exclusive First Look: The Sarah Palin Porn Flick | RadarOnline.com

The internet sends gold out to cold Minnesota, almost for free. The dot.com business was not a bust. Thanks, speculators.

I have never understood people who crack jokes about other people's reactions to the death of their child.

I just don't get it. Snide jokes about whether Biden was really emotional about her dead daughter just demonstrate how low the GOP minions have sunken.

The banks are going to have to resume business at some point or the Fed will give up on them or go around them.

If the government had simply done that, or even just announced that they were doing that, credit would have freed up in a right hurry.

Bloomberg.com:
Personal Finance

at 3h58 CET 3.87

Fed fund rate at 1% ... any one ?

There are more political blogs on the internet than CalculatedRisk-type blogs. Why do you fill up the comments that achieve and contribute nothing?

Would you please leave the political comments for somewhere better suited?

"The internet sends gold out to cold Minnesota, almost for free. The dot.com business was not a bust. Thanks, speculators."

Citizen yogi: yes it does. Blogs like this are gold... and this one has helped me protect my 'gold' over the last year.

sue writes:
I nominate a chicken with it's head cut off as the next federal reserve chairman and three blind mice for SEC oversight and the Wily coyote as the next treasury secretary.
sue | 10.04.08 - 9:27 pm | #

Sue-Nah
It won't be a chicken
with its head cut off.
It will be a chicken whose head McCain bite off.
He surely does prize his virility

lawyer liz, I have been canvassing in PA and the economy is very much on people's minds. And by economy they mean jobs, not wall street.

No one has once mentioned Sarah Palin to me.

One of our group was asked what was O's position on UFOs.

There is no normal.

Ran across some squirrel cooking recipes:

squirrel recipes and cooking squirrel - Wild Life Recipes

Recipes for rabbit are also out there. Don't know of any pigeon recipes, though.

"Ueno said there is the problem of a U.S. political vacuum as congress adjourns for a month until the Nov. 4th Presidential election." There's a political vacuum whether congress is there or not. And when Palin asked Biden if she could call him "Joe", she was setting him up for the "Say it ain't so, Joe" line, a subliminal reference to an old story about Joe Dimaggio throwing a baseball game, if I'm not mistaken.

Peasant Darkness writes:
The banks are going to have to resume business at some point or the Fed will give up on them or go around them.

If the government had simply done that, or even just announced that they were doing that, credit would have freed up in a right hurry.
Peasant Darkness | 10.04.08 - 10:03 pm | #

There are risks to bluffing as well. But when they get desperate, watch out. We are the most powerful nation on earth and the bankers are playing with fire whether they know that or not. We really are not going to let a bunch of WS bankers start a replay of the great depression.

Re: "She is wearing a satin negligee and bunny slippers."

I just lost my dinner, thanks so much for that Alptraum!

CSC

upward sloping to the left

a classic demand curve

now no one will forget

It is not that people are not borrowing because rates are too high- they just can't get the money.

Plus once you drop interest rates to zero whats the incentive to keep money in the bank rather than in your mattress. Japan made a major mistake. By dropping rates they took the spending power out from the one group that could have spent - savers.

WAIT!

Re: Re: "She is wearing a satin negligee and bunny slippers."

WTF, if: Re: "She is wearing a squirrel negligee and squirrel slippers."

I like that, oh baby, now my hormones are pounding and if we add a few moose antlers ... ummmmm (moo)

OT but I'm glad to see justice is finally getting served to O.J.

Its not worth sorting through the Palin bashers comments to stay online tonight. I'm not telling you who I am voting for, so why in the hell do I have to listen to your crap.

A glorious demand curve for the lads:

It looks more like an indifference curve.

dan writes: when Palin asked Biden if she could call him "Joe", she was setting him up for the "Say it ain't so, Joe" line, a subliminal reference to an old story about Joe Dimaggio throwing a baseball game, if I'm not mistaken.

Nothing subliminal about it. And Dimaggio never threw a game in his life.

You're thinking of the Black Sox Scandal and Shoeless Joe Jackson.

Besides, I' would never ever joke about a politician. They do well enough for themselves without my help. If I were going to make a joke I would construct a better narrative. But, if I were going to observe something about some thing a/any politician did, I would distrust their motives and emotions on the face of the situation. And I would almost always, no make that always be correct to doubt their sincerity.

Here is a small personal anecdote/ data point because that is all I'm good for here.

I work for a small company in NYC. It is not financial or real estate related, although one of our clients was an IB which no longer exists.

OK, it happens. Our company has a good mix of clients and the partner/owners are very tight with money so they should be able to weather this.

Last week two projects were put on hold by two separate clients. Another client who had expressed interest in starting a project said they were going to wait. All of these clients are large firms that should not be having money problems.

I've been reading this blog since Feb or so (because our IB client was scaring me) and have a better handle on what is going on than anyone in my office, but I didn't think it would affect us so fast.

The Ballad of Shoeless Joe
YouTube - The Ballad of Shoeless Joe

We now pause for intermissio

Does anyone have a link to:

The Ballad of Bunny Slipperless Pali

I stand corrected and I'll say no more.

Back to the topic:

The Fed is irrelevant, just like W.

They can cut what's left of the rate, or not. It doesn't matter. They can go around the banks and spur lending, or not. They can do whatever they wish.

We are freaking doomed, no matter what. So, if you have bought gold or silver, stocked up on ammunition and gotten to know some of your neighbors then you are prepared for what is coming.

Otherwise, there are some very good poetry sites available.

"Would you please leave the political comments for somewhere better suited?"

Sorry but the American conceit that politics and economics can somehow be separated should be painfully clear at this point. What you meant was "say something intelligent."

Dexia disaster forces ‘robust’ French banks to face reality
Sunday Business Post | Irish Business News

Le Monde newspaper was less diplomatic and wrote: ‘‘Ireland adopted a non-cooperative attitude, which may attract capital from all over Europe and destabilise its EU neighbours.”

Until last week, as credit dried up and banks crumbled around the world, France’s response was reminiscent of the rhetoric used after the Chernobyl disaster: toxic clouds cannot cross our borders. ‘‘French banks are robust,” finance minister Christine Lagarde kept repeating.

She has made the controversial statement that France is a country that thinks too much, and that such obsessive thinking prevents reforms from being implemented

Would you please leave the political comments for somewhere better suited?
EvilHenryPaulson | 10.04.08 - 10:05 pm |


fair enough

but i make ya a deal

ill stop talkin about politics

if palin stops talking about the

"econmy"

and

"nuqcooler power"

and just to show you im reasonable

she can still talk about "I-rack" and the "terrrists"

These people are like the current administration, having no curiousity whatsoever about what is going on at the residential real estate level, the banking capital level, the corporate financing level or the Federal Reserve balance sheet level.

Right. Most think it's a matter of getting the credit market back together and the consumer will keep spending away as before.

I heard the the NYC economy is so bad,
The Mafia had to lay off 5 judges!

Bada bing

Quick! Sell the Ferrari - National - smh.com.au

Latest Reserve Bank figures show that 206,000 clients have taken out $31.8 billion in margin loans. Lenders are making 360 margin calls a day on average, demanding their money back after the share values have fallen past a certain point.

One Sydney car dealership has been shocked by the number of these margin-call clients, usually young men, wanting to sell their Ferraris, Bentleys, Porsches or Aston Martins for quick cash to settle their debts.

"This fallout is quite concentrated to Sydney," he said. "It tends to be those who were late into the market, about 12 to 18 months ago. They have no experience of what happened in 1987, 2000/2001 and 1997."

Craigslist for-sale tells me this is happening in new york as well.

The market is sooo bad, Scott Paper just touched a new bottom!

Bada Boom

UB,

How could you do that, like God, WTF were you thinking there dude? I'm still wondering about the cookie thing, but I'm ok with that (I think). Are you by any chance Claudia Schiffer?

Why@ ZIRP,

I agree with what you're saying in principle on making an end run on the banks if things don't improve, but I'm not sure on the feasibility. There seems to be a lot of support for the Swedish Plan, but obviously not so much in DC or they wouldn't have wasted the $$ on the current relief act.

Would the AIG plan qualify as a stealth nationalization? I guess maybe they don't count since they were the middlemen in the whole "we have conquered risk" way of thinking.
Also, would taking out a zombie bank do anything to unfreeze the other banks? Or would you have to go after a bigger fish?

Just thinking out loud.

TIA,

Sarah Palin is a symbol of everything that is wrong with the modern United States. As a representative of our political system, she's a new low in reptilian villainy, the ultimate cynical masterwork of puppeteers like Karl Rove. But more than that, she is a horrifying symbol of how little we ask for in return for the total surrender of our political power. Not only is Sarah Palin a fraud, she's the tawdriest, most half-assed fraud imaginable, 20 floors below the lowest common denominator, a character too dumb even for daytime TV — and this country is going to eat her up, cheering her every step of the way. All because most Americans no longer have the energy to do anything but lie back and allow ourselves to be jacked off by the calculating thieves who run this grasping consumer paradise we call a nation.

The rest of this fair and balanced appraisal of the Republican vice-presidential candidate can be found here: Mad Dog Palin : Rolling Stone

I just finished a book about Chinese agricultural water problems. It was "The Yellow Stream" by I.P. Freely.

Leftys Liquors & Lubricants writes:
Its not worth sorting through the Palin bashers comments to stay online tonight. I'm not telling you who I am voting for, so why in the hell do I have to listen to your crap.

seems like we listen to your jokes and opinions from time to time some OT

besides its Saturday night after 10

A new expose on the sports world. I knew it was coming. "Under The Bleechers." Buy Seymour Butts...

Oh, Volker, sorry, so stupid, took you literally. I used to say I'd do almost anything once. I am willing to do canvassing twice or even 3 times.

Wouldn't jump out of an airplane. Unless it was on fire AND someone was pushing me.

Ross,

Lumber at a 17 year low, this also probably is impacting one of Greenspans old favorite economic barometer, the box index:

John Dizard, in a Financial Times article, "Useful thinking from inside the box," reminds us of a metric that was once used by some savvy investors (the sort who would be interviewed at a Barron's Roundtable) as a reasonable proxy for overall growth trends: cardboard box demand. And the cardboard box indicator is sending warning signals:
Before Alan Greenspan was known for making scary speeches, market people knew he spent a lot of time looking at the market for cardboard boxes. Most things you use are put in a cardboard box at some point, and box use, production, inventories, and pricing are, therefore, useful indicators. Boxes, in this context, are specific to the North American market, as distinct from pulp and newsprint, which are global markets. What is the box world telling us?
The Cardboard Box Indicator « naked capitalism

Wally: from mises.org (hard money blog)
Being one of the only true specie paying banks in the country, and finding its reserves all but depleted by mid-1818, the directors realized that they had to curtail lending and contract their notes to avoid suspending payment and thus losing their federal charter. Consequently, they called in loans and required balances due them by the state banks be paid in hard money or national bank notes. This curtailment policy precipitated the panic of 1818–19. In the words of William M. Gouge, a hard-money editor and political economist from Philadelphia, "The Bank was saved, but the people were ruined."

The moral of the article is that all governments prefer to borrow rather than tax to finance their wars, and nobody minds because everyone feels wealthier in the early part of the inflation, before reality trickles down.

EvilHenryPaulson | 10.04.08 - 9:59 pm | #

---thanks for the graph of fed funds "effective" rate

alarming times 3

A new research paper on the Asian economies and how aggressive they are becoming. "The Tiger." by Claude Balls.

Hey, if I have to read this tripe about politics, I need to laugh at myself!

Anony-cookie: Yes. Think of me as Claudia in Bunny Slippers. I think the cookie thing started when you said you were baking cookies the other night.

Ok, for all the newb, puritanical comment-fascistos out there:

No there won't be an intermeeting fed rate cut. Does it matter? No.

Leftys Liquors & Lubricants writes:
Its not worth sorting through the Palin bashers comments to stay online tonight.

Really? do stick around, you'll miss this classic paragraph:

The truly disgusting thing about Sarah Palin isn't that she's totally unqualified, or a religious zealot, or married to a secessionist, or unable to educate her own daughter about sex, or a fake conservative who raised taxes and horked up earmark millions every chance she got. No, the most disgusting thing about her is what she says about us: that you can ram us in the ass for eight solid years, and we'll not only thank you for your trouble, we'll sign you up for eight more years, if only you promise to stroke us in the right spot for a few hours around election time.

Ross, I want to party with you, Cowboy

4shzl,

Odd that you should bring that article up. I was just wondering to myself what Hunter S. Thompson would be writing about the current campaign if he hadn't checked out. Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail is a great read and there seem to be some parallels (or at least takeaways) to the current campaign.
Taibbi and Juhasz are clearly trying to follow in the footsteps of Thompson and Steadman, but I haven't read his stuff before so I don't know if he actually brings anything to the table.

Stop it Ross, stop it, I just can't stand it.

There is no normal. and never was. .

Liz/City Girl.

I wish I could be so sanguine about people's critical thinking abilities.

Listening to people at work I sometimes think my head will explode.

Re: margin calls "Craigslist for-sale tells me this is happening in new york as well."

I will be upgrading my lifestyle, in a patriotic effort to improve liquidity. But I promise to always live within my means. I will pay cash, they can stuff their 1.5%.

The previous intermeeting cut was my signal to get the hell out of the stock market and into cash. I figured Bernanke must see something very bad coming up. I've been very happy with that call...

I've been reading this blog since Feb or so (because our IB client was scaring me) and have a better handle on what is going on than anyone in my office, but I didn't think it would affect us so fast.
city girl | 10.04.08 - 10:19 pm | #

I work for a company that lost 30% last week. I really think it was caused by blowback of what is happening in general. Whether you work at Charbucks or aare selling copiers or producing widgets, there is going to be fallout, cutbacks, more. Everybody needs to have a plan.

I just don't know what mine is....where is "safe" to work? Even cushy govt jobs are not safe. I think the only job that is safe is farmer....

Hey Kona,

Paperbox production is an old indicator only we dinosores use. Also, intercity truck tonnage.

Really funny that if we stripped out tonnage that was going for export, the indicator has been going south since mid 07. Yellow Roadway is sucking exhaust fumes. If they can weather the downturn, the stock may be a 10 bagger over the next 5 years...Do your own DD..

futurist weepstah-

I doubt that the Fed wants to do any of the things I mentioned. What I am saying is that the failure of the existing banks to work toward any sort of solution to the problems they have is strengthening the Fed not weakening it. Dr. Bernanke has urged the banks to do things like write down the principal on defaulting loans, raise new capital and other measures that would mitigate the problem. The banks have failed to do anything to mitigate their exposures and patience has its limits.

To respond to the growing crisis the Fed has increased its balance sheet and tightened its relationship to the Treasury. Power is being concentrated in a few hands not, I think, by design but rather by necessity. A much more powerful Fed has now taken authority over the former mega investment banks, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley by "allowing" them to convert to being bank holding companies. They are now subject to the direct regulatory authority of the Fed, they were not before.

The Fed has had to coordinate policy with foreign central banks to support the dollar and now to directly provide liquidity support to frozen credit markets overseas. More power.

I am not sure that it is a good thing that the Fed is growing by leaps and bounds. If I were a banker I would seriously be questioning my attitudes about interbank lending right now.

UB,

Thanks for that clarity, I thought it was related to chocolate chips, and I'm very happy to have a new image in my mind, in regard to your slippers, that makes me want say foolish things:

This is not Palin, ok, this is me with my Claudia fantasy:
YouTube - Woody Allen - El Dormilón - Coronación de Miss Montana 

Dudes doing own due D. will always be safe.

People come to me now, virtually every day, who borrowed too much. When I ask them why, they have no reason.

I spend a good deal of time teaching my secretaries to think. Some of them have actually learned. One quit because she couldn't stand thinking, said I didn't pay her enuf to think. True, I suppose.

I have always felt that thinking was simply orgasmic, but i guess I am wired up funny.

There is no normal.

ridiculous anecdote rounding out depressing story:

Morgan Cavanaugh, proprietor of Moriarty's Pub in downtown Cleveland, has been trying to sell another bar he owns to ease his workload, but the prospective buyer hasn't been able to raise the money.

Now that the bailout legislation has the green light, he's hopeful he'll get a deal done.

"It passed. Let's work something out," Cavanaugh told the man over a cell phone Friday just after the House approved the plan.

He flipped the phone shut and smiled from behind the weathered mahogany bar of his 75-year-old Irish pub.

"He's going to put the loan request in again. It's looking up," Cavanaugh said.

Yahoo! 404 - Page Not Found

Unless Jas Jain is Pol Pot.

Well that should play well in Beijing...

China Says $6.5 Billion U.S. Arms Sale to Taiwan Will Hurt Ties
By Douglas Wong and Yu-huay Sun

Oct. 5 (Bloomberg) -- China protested a proposed U.S. sale of $6.46 billion of weapons to Taiwan, saying it would ``seriously damage'' U.S.-China relations.

``The Chinese government and people firmly oppose this action,'' said Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao in a statement late yesterday. The arms sale interferes in China's internal affairs and endangers its security, Liu said.

While Liu called for the sale to be canceled and reiterated China's position that Taiwan is part of its territory, he also said that ``nobody could stop'' a new chapter of peace in relations with the island. China and Taiwan have been administered separately since 1949 and still haven't formally ended their civil war.
China's Defense Ministry Condemns U.S. Arms Sale, Xinhua Says - Bloomberg.com

Persecuted Comrade Anonymouse writes:
Tenured professorships are safe.

hmmm... will that really be true when enrollments dive because no loans are available anymore???

Given the decline in milage traveled by American drivers, there is some consternation about tire manufacturers, Goodyear in particular. Some believe it will go flat while others believe it will bounce back or at least keep rolling along.

Bata wong...

lawyerliz ,

Re: "I spend a good deal of time teaching my secretaries to think."

Do you need help with lessons, I need work someday, I'm told, so maybe I could give you a jingle?

My son is supposed to start in the spring for a masters in public health.

We still have a little Fla prepaid for the dorm. He gets a small disability from his stint in the army.

His job runs from 5 to 1:30 in the pm, so he intends to keep working at least til next September. He'll be ok, but I wonder what the other kids, err, young men and women will be doing.

Ya know, I think they will have to drop tuition, at least for private schools. And put all those fancy projects on hold.

Kona writes:
"It occurred to me tonight that The Auto-Bubble was a stealth or shadow bubble that kind of was an embedded bubble within The SubPrime Home-Owner-Ship Bubble."

I knew there was an auto bubble when my tenants started driving Mercs and Priapses. What does it mean when people are spending almost as much on their car payments as on their rents? It wasn't just homeowers, it was almost everyone around here. New tenant (a student at a local uni) drives a brand new mega-SUV to commute to on-campus parking.

And me, their LL, drives a 15 year old car that I bought used for 1/5th of what it cost new. The world is very much inside-out and upside-down.

Nah, I couldn't afford you Kona.

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