Senator Boxer Explains her Vote
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Sat, 10/04/2008 - 7:03pm (309 comments)
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First.
Cali is gonna get credit, the bar owner is gonna get credit, everybody is gonna get credit.
Happy days are here again.
At least the bar owner could finance the sale himself, if he wanted to.
What is up with this crushing need to "get lines of credit to meet payroll"?
Did every politican get the same talking points memo?
"middle class" is the new black.
I was told by the Treasurer's office that without access to credit, which is the goal of this legislation, California wouldn't be able to sell voter-approved highway, school, and water bonds that are desperately needed for our economy and the creation of good-paying new jobs.
This is idiotic. California is a poor credit risk whether Paulson buys up a bunch of toxic securities or not.
I don't follow how anyone could even begin to believe this plan would help California sell bonds.
Fla is at least trying to balance the budget, and has actually done so, without too much jiggery pokey and hankey panky. Some borrowing from the future.
Compared to Cali, we are saints.
But we do screw up elections, and now we are in purple mode, no longer red.
Again, no understanding of the issue is conveyed in the letter, thus no understanding of the issue can be implied by the Senator.
The dots are still not connected. How exactly will this plan get banks to lend?
"I was told this, and I was told that."
I love that the House rejects the bill, the Senate piles on some pork but does NOTHING to change the horrible terms of the original deal, and then the House bends over and takes it. This is one of the worst pieces of legislation I've seen in many years.
Boxer was one of the few people to not vote for The Pension Protection Act, and I thanked her in a nice letter. However, she was lied to on this one and she should have stood her ground!
She is either an idiot or just somebody in the pocket of the Wall Street lobbying effort. Probably a little of both.
I stated earlier this is ignorance and lack of vision, NOT bankster stoogery. She can be educated.
It's her job to know better. That's what we pay her for. I have no pity.
It won't Max, it won't.
I am greatly relieved to hear from Barbara Chihuahua on this important matter.
Really, what else could she have said?
I'm already sorry I did it?
Nitey nite.
or in haiku:
She should know better
That is what we pay her for
I have no pity
She is either an idiot or just somebody in the pocket of the Wall Street lobbying effort. Probably a little of both.
No, she is clearly an idiot.
But at least she is smarter than Palin. I think . . .
Cali does desperately need money for infrastructure. One major earthquake in the right place would make it impossible to transport fresh water across the SF bay delta and would cut off 1/2 to 2/3 of LA and SanDiego water supply. They are on track to push for a peripheral canal but won't be able to build it w/o bond money.
I understand the panic re the crisis, but wish to God the politcos had got their heads out their asses re the mechanism to treat it. This is as bad as bloodletting by doctors, except it affects all of us.
The New York Times said the Bill would ensure silk shirts for "workingmen" (by implication)
"No snow flake ever fall in the wrong place".
Here is a bag to put Boxer (and her shit) in:
CafePress.com : Not Found
She's afraid politically to raise taxes for needed projects, so she lets herself be deluded by Ponzi's mother. Sad, really.
Does she believe this or does she believe we will believe this?
That seems like a shitty way to say goodby to voters, and why no photo to go with this or a gift; bad form!
She needs a good swift kick in the ass.
She understands it
But she's a politician
And does what she's told
_
Lawyers [thus politicans] understand law, but do not understand finance. In order to understand how toxic and stupid the bill she voted for is, she would have to have some idea of what exactly is the source of the problem. In other words, the toxic CDOs on the balance sheets of the country's biggest banks. No there there. I am polling my friends to see how many weeks it is before they come back and ask for more.
Well, Senator Boxter ain't no Porsche in my pinion. Porsche's is guy cars. She is one of them Preious battery lovin commie red state baitin rabble roussers we kicked outa Mississississippi long while back. She's a flip flupping flop wearing winchabee what sold my chilren down da river. "Big wheel keep on turning"
We don't need no split tail wannabes in congruess. Spescaley left coast bait eaters...
Just sent to Sen. Boxer:
Senator I urge you to read the comments to this blog post. Ignore the personal attacks. You must stay on top of this crucial issue.
Thanks
Great VP debate on NBC
The only thing worse than a sacramento democrat is a washington republican. Barbara is a sweet, classy woman, and obviously quite intelligent, but her politics combine the worst of both.
Dare anyone mention the late Howard Jarvis when talking about financial problems in California? The root of the problem is the unwillingness to actually be taxed for what voters demand (or accept). When I sold the family home in the central valley for an outrageous 333k in 2005, our property taxes were frozen at their Prop 13 level, absurdly low to be specific. Meanwhile the '3 strikes and you're out' mentality turned the prison industry into the ultimate growth industry and the prison guards union into the largest union and lobbying force in the state. Cut pay for teachers, lower taxes and spend more on the prison industry. Great plan.
Senator Boxer is using the same talking points that were spread across the country early last week. She may or may not believe the talking points. That's almost irrelevant. She hears a cry for help from the homeowners afraid their homes will decline in price, from businesses that their sales will go down, from financial institutions that they will lose money and jobs, from.... 90% of voters in California want her to bail them out.
So she votes for the bailout, and packages it very smoothly, as you'd expect from a US Senator. What is so surprising? What would be truly surprising is if she actually did her own homework, her own thinking, and decided to oppose the desires of 90% of the voters, and virtually the entire circle she works and lives amongst.
Thank goodness, Da Bears are playin' tomorrow. 'Less they lose, of course...
"Compared to Cali, we are saints."
FL has the unfair advantage of judgement-proof asset law. CA just has a prop 13 ponzi scheme.
Dear Floridians, don't do your victory dance before you actually cross the goal line.
Read the part about the "information" she received from the State of California. For those who do not live in Cali or do not follow Cali news, the State is basically BK. If they can't sell muni and state bonds, the State is toast.
All the blah-blah comes down to this: the state would finally have to tighten its belt. This cannot be allowed, as the political structure of Cali is based on giving away money to pressure groups. There would political he11 to pay if the flow of bond money even slowed down, let alone stopped.
Did you get the reference to job creation based on bond money? Those are the patronage jobs that generate campaign dollars: highways worker's union, prison guard's union, teacher's union, municipal employees, etc.
Relevance?
She qualified in anything?
Her opinion worth anything?
Well, bgates, she may be a sacred moment Democrat, sweet, classy but I take issue with intellegent.
She's just been bought and paid for like another Vegas whore, who by they way are very overpriced.
Sign over the prostitutes bed. 'The customer always comes first.
Who does understand what is happening? Very few.
And virtually nobody from congress understands it.
And after years now of carping about Bush, Paulsen and Bernanke, the Dems who have been in control do sign a blank check and do so not only without a whimper (or check and balance) but beggingly so to pass a bill loaded with pork.
All these folks would make great parents-never say no.
Feinstein is even better:
This is the speech she gave on the floor of Congress prior to voting for this legislation. Horse-manure!
They say Senators have 6-year terms so they can take tough votes when tough votes are called for, so that they can vote for the best interests of their country even sometimes when their constituents do not understand it or may be opposed to it.
I have received 91,000 phone calls and e-mails from California, 85,000 of them opposed to this measure. There is a great deal of confusion out there. People don't understand. What was printed most prominently was the original Paulson proposal, a proposal which gave one man control over $700 billion to dispense as he chose, above the law, with no administrative view or legislative oversight.
This is not that proposal. I thank the chairman of the Banking Committee, both sides of the Banking Committee. It would be one thing if we had a choice, but I do not believe we have a choice. Let me give you an example. In my State, we have 3.5 million small businesses. We have over 20 million people employed in those small businesses.
Now, some businesses function on cash. Most function on credit. When credit is frozen, they cannot make payroll. And when they cannot make a payroll, they give out pink slips. So you will see, through electrical and plumbing contractors, retail establishments, even grocery stores, computer stores, automobile sales, we are now hearing from people who say they want to buy a home, they cannot get a mortgage; they want to get a car, they cannot get a loan. This is what is beginning to happen.
This is not a give-away. This essentially is a strategic plan to buy assets, both good and bad, to pump liquidity into the market, to be able to free up credit, so that once again the economy can function. The Government will hold these assets. Over time we believe they will make money, and the Government will be the first paid back.
So I think if we do care about the livelihood of our constituents, there is only one vote and it is yes. This bill is not the bill that was put forward by Secretary Paulson on September 20. His bill was essentially a nonstarter--startling in its unbridled allocation of power to one man: the Secretary of Treasury whom we know now, and to a Secretary of Treasury after January whom we do not know. It placed this man above the law, above administrative oversight and above congressional action, and essentially gave him $700 billion to do with what he thought best.
This bill didn't fly with virtually anyone who looked at it, particularly constituents, who have called in the tens of thousands of phone calls all across this land. My office has received over 91,000 calls and e-mails with over 86,000 opposed. The bill before us is not Paulson's 3-page proposal. Rather, it is a bipartisan effort that adds oversight, accountability, assistance to homeowners, executive compensation limits, and other measures to protect taxpayers.
But there still is a lot of misinformation on this bill. This is not a $700 billion gift for Wall Street. Rather, the--Federal Government will buy equity in certain assets, both good and bad to pump liquidity into the marketplace and unfreeze credit which is increasingly freezing and unavailable. Over time, these assets will be sold and the Federal Government will be the first paid back on the investment. The belief is that by doing this the Federal Government will clear much of the bad debt on the books of certain strategic financial institutions, restoring stability, adding liquidity, and unfreezing credit.
Recently, we have seen major U.S. institutions fail: Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, and AIG. And, two retail banks, not investment banks: Washington Mutual and Wachovia. If we do nothing, more institutions will fail. Now, you may say: What does this mean to me? I work hard, I pay my bills, I pay cash.
Here's what it will mean to you: It will be harder for most Americans to get any credit. Therefore, jobs will be lost. And we may well face a deep recession. California has 3.75 million small businesses with an average of 5.6 employees. That adds up to over 20 million jobs. Some of these businesses are funded with cash, but most are funded with credit. When credit freezes, payrolls cannot be met. And when payrolls cannot be met, pink slips are sent out. And this will happen to retailers, grocery stores, restaurants, electrical and plumbing contractors, apparel manufacturers, computer and electronics stores, and auto dealerships.
Sales at auto dealerships have fallen dramatically in the past year. Ford sales are down 34 percent, Chrysler sales are down 33 percent, Toyota sales are down 29 percent, and GM sales are down 16 percent. The list will go on and on.
Importantly, there have now been several improvements to this bill. First, The FDIC insurance rate covering bank deposits has been increased from $100,000 to $250,000. Americans will know that their deposits are secure up to $250,000. The legislation will provide tax relief to working families.
One example: the Alternative Minimum Tax is a real problem. It was meant to apply only to 200 wealthy people, but it was never adjusted for inflation and it has crept down the income scale to the point where more than 25 million taxpayers today may well have to pay an Alternative Minimum Tax. In California, 700,000 people paid this tax last year. But 4 million Californians will pay that tax this year unless we take action. This bill takes that action. For 1 year it will prevent this tax increase.
The Congressional Budget Office has reviewed this bill and concluded that the net cost to taxpayers is ``likely to be substantially less than $700 billion.'' Again, these investments are first in line to be paid back. It must be remembered that there was a great deal of criticism when the U.S. Government bailed out Mexico in 1996 with $20 billion. The fact is, the money was paid back ahead of time and $600 million in profit was made.
Let me give you the following points. This bill mandates that the Government provide loan modifications for the subprime mortgages it acquires. This will help keep families in homes rather than foreclosing and putting the house on a deteriorating housing market where property values drop and homes are looted. The bill limits executive compensation. It provides strong oversight and accountability, including a financial stability oversight board, a five-member congressional oversight panel, an inspector general, and a constant presence at Treasury by the Government Accountability Office.
This is the only choice Congress can make. One can rail against it and vote ``no'' on it, but that is not going to solve the problem. We have one chance, and one chance only, to solve the problem, and it is this bill. I wish I could write it differently. Others wish they could write it differently, but the fact is that we are faced with this. Again, there is no question this is a tough vote.
But there is no question that this is a vote that I believe has to be made.
The root of the problem is the unwillingness to actually be taxed for what voters demand (or accept).
Once again, Californians led the nation... wrong, in this case.
"Well, bgates, she may be a sacred moment Democrat, sweet, classy but I take issue with intellegent. "
yes, but look what happens when truly intelligent people like rove and abramoff run the country. disaster. politicians shouldn't be too bright, they're dangerous. if W hadn't shaved off 20 IQ points with the booze and coke, he would have been a passable president.
Maybe Boxer will be ready to write another check in a few months and pour more cash into this black hole:
Hypo Real Estate's financing needs exceeded the bailout plan guarantee, Germany's Die Welt reported earlier today, citing unnamed people in the finance industry. It will need 20 billion euros by the end of next week and 50 billion euros by the end of the year, according to the newspaper. As much as 100 billion euros may be needed to shore up the bank's finances by the end of 2009, Die Welt said.
Ponzi's mother
If we only had those 50's color field painters around today...
Galaxy 500
YouTube - Reverend Horton Heat - Galaxie 500
" As much as 100 billion euros may be needed to shore up the bank's finances by the end of 2009, Die Welt said."
wow, the dollar index might rally up to the low 90s
"Taxes" just suffer from poor marketing. Savvy politicians could repackage them as a "Rescue Plan" and even the Austrian would support it. "You will profit in the long run..." Highways and schools should sell easier than toilet paper.
Several commenters are saying that Boxer isn't bright. She may not be Nobel-prize material, but it's better not to make th mistake of underestimating the intelligence of others. What she is doing, she is doing knowingly. She is voting for this not because she has calculated that it's just what the economy needs. She is voting for it because of the incentives. She will be much more welcome in her everyday world if she votes for it, and she will be less likely to piss off 90% of her voters. People with the typical CR commenter's world view are very unusual.
This is not a give-away. This essentially is a strategic plan to buy assets, both good and bad, to pump liquidity into the market, to be able to free up credit, so that once again the economy can function
If this plan is strategic then my palms have hair and you can call me Herman.
Re: If we only had those 50's color field painters around today...
I'm here man and I'm ready!
A Plutocrat trying to alter the views of the democracy that is supposed to be in charge; she must have missed the memo that Plutocrats don't need to change our mind but rather to tell us to sit down, shut up, and bend over when King Henry asks.
. . . 90% of voters in California want her to bail them out.
patientrenter,
That statement is so bizarre I would say your patience has become mind numbing.
Ah, the Good Rev. Suicide Doors is my fave, but sadly a clip isn't on Youtube.
Serious question: Why exactly does anyone (especially those in congress) think there is a connection between giving Hank a big checkbook and credit flowing freely again?
As near as I can tell, the thinking goes like this:
I'm have a real problem filling in item 3.
All I can say about Europe is DIE!...WELT. You suckers lose again. Hoisted on our own petard.
International credit bubbles snare even the most nimble. Silly wabbits.
UBS. Unified Bunnies in the Snow!
Oh well, just another day in the life of Ivan Denisovich.
Kukuschka
Re: wow, the dollar index might rally up to the low 90s
Yah, Im not sure about currencies in this global recession/slash/stagflationistic depression where Bernanke is going to cut towards zero and deflate the value of the dollar, while it de-couples from The Euro, while Asia goes into shock -- yah, count me out, but nonetheless, the buck will live on a highwire and this is a circus, so what the hell, viva la greenbacks!
Isn't California's governor already in line for some bailout $$$? I wonder if Boxer's vote is related to the request?
My reasons may be superficial, but I appreciate the tone of Boxer's letter, especially in comparison to Feinstein's. (Although I admit "better than Feinstein" is a pretty low bar)
At least Boxer is honest enough to admit that taxpayers didn't get an equity position. Feinstein just assumes that the 80,000+ people she's representing that called her to oppose the bill just don't understand that this isn't the original Paulson proposal. What a joke.
On further reflection, maybe this is the "secret threat" that Paulson laid on the congresscritters: Either you give me the money or the state and muni bond markets will freeze up, and all of you elected pols will be sent packing when your voters discover that they can't use 30-year bonds to fund their latest fancy.
JP,
You know very well what you wrote was the lie they used to steal our money. They have no intention of reaching step 4. They'll have to keep coming back to the taxpayer until we purchase 5 trillion dollars of crap synthetic instruments, avoiding dilution of shareholders and esp. debtholders.
i can't fill in 3 either and that is why it won't work. we see what they don't. 3 needs to be a miracle and we won't get one.
SNL nailing it!
JP,
Re: "3. ???"
This is an era of magic shows and attention deficit zombies that don;t get anything, you can leave #3 blank and nothing changes, it gets canceled out, as in algebra. They never did get it, and this changes nothing, so none of this matters...
Why exactly does anyone (especially those in congress) think there is a connection between giving Hank a big checkbook and credit flowing freely again?
Um, because Bernanke told them it would help? He's an expert in the great depression...
Magical thinking, economics is all black boxes anyway... We've broken down by the side of the road, please somebody call a mechanic.
BB says fixing your worn out roadster costs 700 big ones. Gee thanks BB.
ot - anyone notice how little AU/AG is available for sale?
Yah, I'm with the others there, number 3 is like a trigger that starts a feedback loop, and this just goes in circles like with the recession in Japan.
Um, because Bernanke told them it would help? He's an expert in the great depression...
How would Ben fill in item 3 then?
"sm_landlord writes:
On further reflection, maybe this is the "secret threat" that Paulson laid on the congresscritters: Either you give me the money or the state and muni bond markets will freeze up, and all of you elected pols will be sent packing when your voters discover that they can't use 30-year bonds to fund their latest fancy."
I'm not sure that's the way it works. Congress was told that there was going to be $700 billion of additional govt spending. Their only real issue was getting more control over that spending. Most were never opposed to the spending itself. Notice that the amount went up after Congress got a hold of it, not down. That should tell you something.
patientrenter writes:
Senator Boxer is using the same talking points that were spread across the country early last week. She may or may not believe the talking points. That's almost irrelevant. She hears a cry for help from the homeowners afraid their homes will decline in price, from businesses that their sales will go down, from financial institutions that they will lose money and jobs, from.... 90% of voters in California want her to bail them out.
So she votes for the bailout, and packages it very smoothly, as you'd expect from a US Senator. What is so surprising? What would be truly surprising is if she actually did her own homework, her own thinking, and decided to oppose the desires of 90% of the voters, and virtually the entire circle she works and lives amongst.
She voted against 90% of the voters including me. When I contacted her office her assistant told me the calls were 10-1 against this bill. I love how all you political tools think that she must have been misled since she is a Democrat. If she was republican she would be knowingly ripping off the American people to fill her cronies pockets. Democrats suck just as much as Republicans. and she needs to go away just like every other piece of traitorous crap that voted for this ripoff. And one more thought- Proposition 13 is great. Government, especially Californias super idiot government should be starved. If you wanks want to send in more money go right ahead.
Hypo Real Estate Rescue at Risk as Banks Withdraw Their Support
Hypo Real Estate Rescue at Risk as Banks Withdraw Their Support - Bloomberg.com
The bank is in a very difficult situation,'' Hypo Real Estate spokesman Hans Obermeier said in a telephone interview.We hope everyone involved in the discussions is aware of this.''
No politician in California who gets elected once has to worry about getting reelected due to the Superb GerryMandering of Willie Brown,Et al.The reelection rate is 98.5%.When Arnie boy brought this up he was quickly brought to heel.Boxer still seems able to feel shame,but Feinstein is utterly corrupt.Her hubby Richard Blum (carlyle group and other businesses)benefitted quite nicely from her votes when she was on the armed services committee.
i got the same form letter in reply to me email. Oh so comforting.
3: Banks know that if they make bad deals, they can hit the reset button again at Treas. Risk becomes a non-issue, and loans are granted to anyone who might pay it back, even a little, before the bank might have to trade the note in for a refund and go again.
I dunno....maybe?
Phase 3:???
It's a South Park thing, the underpants gnomes. I cried laughing for a week when I saw it a couple of years ago.
The pound dropped the most in a week versus the dollar since 1992 after U.K. services contracted the most in at least 12 years, fueling speculation the economy may already be in a recession and the Bank of England will cut interest rates soon.
The U.K. currency lost 3.9 percent against the Japanese yen this past week as manufacturing contracted, home values plunged and banks planned to scale back loans. The government seized mortgage lender Bradford & Bingley Plc this week as the world's financial system ground to a halt amid a cash shortage. The central bank will cut its key rate on Oct. 9, economists surveyed by Bloomberg News predicted.
Yeah, I got this same email from her...Boxer, I'd like to box her....
It was anglo-saxon usury that done it!
These fistful of assholes really mucked things up.
Congress, FR and TR plan to continue bullying the citizenry into submission, but it only takes one or two more real bad days in the equity, credit or currency markets to demonstrate the incompetence and corruption in last Friday's taxpayer massacre, and Boxer and the rest will be working hard to rationalize each new surprise in the ongoing credit collapse and bear market. They're over their heads already, and after a wreckless, decade old, fed sponsored credit binge, with asset and earnings declines just starting, I expect them soon to be totally underwater, like most of the rest of us.
LifeLoans are issued, and backed with a certain percentage of a certain number of years of the borrower's labor. Like a Third World country at the World Bank, Americans subject themselves to whatever necessary to get the money they need to survive. We remain convinced that we were responsible for the loss of our freedom, and remind each other that we all sold out. We call it anything but feudalism or slavery.
You guys can debate economics till the moon shines but I can tell you on the street side faith in the system is gone. Everyone I know are pulling their money out of the bank as soon as possible. Bush has scared the shit out of everyone. Those $5000 accounts add up.
I think the hypothesis for the 3 is that each bank will look at their balance sheets and - mirabile visu! - find themselves solvent, and thus (stay with me on this) assume that all the others are as well.
Unfortunately, the hypothesis is more conjecture or wishful thinking than a rational response to observable facts.
CSC: Maybe. Borders on moral hazard, with resulting inflation if they fail. But I'm amazed if the politicians are that devious.
As near as I can tell, they knew the plan was fucked, but the 777 point drop gave Hank ammo to beat them over the head and made them look good for elections. And then, laughably, they passed it and the market dropped 400 points in a matter of hours. You can just hear Hank saying "suckers!"
Saturday Night Live fried Pelosi, W.(easy mark) and Frank. Must see.
How would Ben fill in item 3 then?
I have no idea. But the analogy of the cancer patient talking to the doctor, or the person who doesn't know a catalytic converter from a muffler talking to their mechanic seems to apply.
patientrenter writes: "I'm not sure that's the way it works."
Remember that state and muni bonds are usually insured. No insurance, they must pay higher rates. Yes, I know, the insurance is meaningless and is really about buying AAA from the ratings agencies. But even if the rates go up a small amount, the debt service on existing bonds tips the states and municipalities farther into the red.
The additional spending that the Senate was mostly not spending, much of it was tax reduction, which is counted as spending in political math.
The same political math that causes histrionics to masquerade as "control". The "control" they added seems to be mostly about opportunities to get committee hearings on television, so that they can engage in more finger-pointing and campaigning for their other pet projects and causes.
What, me cynical?
You don't have to get the chip. It's a free country. But it comes with some benefits, like government assistance, access to public transportation, and interstate travel. So you get the chip. And you're totally dependent on a group that views you as resource users and garbage makers. We fall into total tyranny. Many are culled from the herd. Old, sick. We are merely units.
CSC- I think it's call debt bondage
It will be a shock
To all of the incumbents
When we vote them out
JP: Sir...moral hazard? Are you serious? Dude, we wiped with moral hazard three toinks ago. Now we're in "whatever might freaking work at any level" thinking.
PeakVT: It's the "stay with me on this" that hurts my head. There was no purging of the bad banks.
OTOH, perhaps you're right and that is how the politicos rationalized it to themselves... They have big egos, so they think that by extending their umbrella everybody else will have faith too. Best theory so far.
I got the same email. Now I get to pay extra federal taxes to bail out a bunch of fatcats AND more sales tax and state tax for a host of bonds I wouldn't vote for anyway! Golly, thanks for that, Ms Boxer! My faith in government is even more secure.
Now we're in "whatever might freaking work at any level" thinking.
That is certainly possible. It might also provide an operational definition of 'panic'.
I don't get it. Boxer or any other Congressman could easily pick up the phone and call any or all of Roubini, Krugman, Stiglitz, Thoma, etc... to get an education. I see no evidence that any of them bothered to get good independent advice from anyone with even the slightest clue.
Good one, JP!
"alambka writes:
....patientrenter writes:
I love how all you political tools think that she must have been misled since she is a Democrat."
Calm down, alambka. You cannot imagine how apolitical I am.
My point is that people overwhelmingly make decisions based on self-interest, usually short-term. So to see how many people would choose a bailout over none, it's most efficient just to examine the short term incentives they have.
Most Californian voters own very expensive homes, and want them to have higher values, not lower. Most Californian business owners want easy and cheap credit.... You get the idea
Is this chip taken orally, implanted, or...ouch
The US is wide open Cronyism now. No guilt, no shame, just out in the open and free as a bird. I don't think any previous concern is much of a hurdle at this point.
"This is what's gonna happen folks.... "
That's as much concern as we'll get.
>> Really guys, we need bailed out! We made some bets Friday in America and we need the money Monday, we need your help...
Well, this time there will be Sunday activity in Germany:
http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article2529833/Rettungspaket-fuer-Hypo-Real-Estate-gescheitert.html
Because of the the new development, the case surrounding Hypo Real Estate is now open again. Should there be no other short-term solution, insolvency of the real estate bank is likely already by Monday - unless the federal government and the central bank will find a way to refinance the bank. Even a sale of the credit side or their four daughter companies is possible.
Durch die neue Entwicklung ist die Situation um die Hypo Real Estate nun wieder offen. Sollte es kurzfristig keine andere Lösung geben, droht bereits am Montag die Insolvenz der Immobilienbank - es sei denn, die Bundesregierung und die Zentralbank finden eine Möglichkeit, den Refinanzierungsspielraum der Bank zu erweitern. Auch ein Verkauf des Kreditinstituts oder ihrer vier Töchter ist möglich.
CSC,
YOU GET IT. YOU REALLY GET IT.
I forecast a stealth run on banks months ago. Since we have a digital banking system, it was not obvious since Aunt Em doesn't que up at the door. A keystroke and voila!
The world is booked as chattel. Who does the booking is what counts.
Patrick writes:
"I don't get it."
Simple. Politicians only listen to political advice. Anything not framed in political terms is ignored. You have to think like them to understand them.
let the weekend revelations continue.
not to be outdone by the us offering detroit 25b, the eu is asking for the handout also.
EU Car Makers to Seek Loan - WSJ.com
I see no evidence that any of them bothered to get good independent advice from anyone with even the slightest clue.
I believe that Kaptur and DeFazio and Kucinich did among others. I'm still in a state of rage that alternative plans were not allowed a hearing.
"not to be outdone by the us offering detroit 25b, the eu is asking for the handout also."
Tit for tat. They need to keep an even playing field. Can you say: "Smoot Hawley by other means?"
California wouldn't be able to sell voter-approved highway, school, and water bonds...
IOW, California wouldn't be able to borrow more money from the future.
It reminds me of when a teacher friend of ours was showing fifth-graders how to do a simple household budget. The kids were told exactly how much their income would be, and were supposed to determine how to apportion it to their household expenses.
"How much do we get in food stamps?" asked one kid.
"No food stamps," replied the teacher.
"But...But..." the kid stammered, "then how do we buy food?"
Gee, Barbara, how indeed can a state prosper without more borrowing?"
Dear Senator Boxer:
"The fundamentals of our economy have been shaken, and Americans are deeply concerned. "
Doesn't cut it.
That's the problem.
here, allow me to clarify...
WHO sold WHAT toxic securities to WHICH foreign banks that totaled over 450 BN?
I want them to go to jail please.
And Senator, while your at it...
WHO rated these known toxic securities as "AAA"?
They need to go to jail too please.
And what former CEO of Goldman Sachs petitioned the Senate on the 13th floor of the SEC and asked for (and received) "Self Oversight" coupled with a relaxation of the rules governing covering assets to debt ration?
That person needs to hang in public.
Senator...your one sentence explanation doesn't cut it.
I'm a lowly home owner who's investments reach no further than his 401K and his (shringking) house.
And I KNOW WHAT ROLE YOU ASSHOLES PLAYED IN THIS.
Condescension no longer works.
And I WON'T FORGET IT.
I'm still in a state of rage that alternative plans were not allowed a hearing.
Me too. I plan on bringing that rage with me to the voting booth. I know, call me Don Quixote.
Anyway thanks for the answers above. It's time to call it a night on this coast. Later...
On the subject at hand, its heartening to report that in my area, the congressman, Mark Udall ( and standing for Senate this year too), Wayne Allard Senator both voted no and the asshole Ken Salazar voted yes. I leave out the party affiliations of the individuals of course.
As I take a time out from trading and day to day minutae, and go right-hand brain/intuitive/offtopic etc and watch "Smartest Guys in the Room" - about Enron and the way they rolled over Cali, I'm ABSOLUTELY struck - is this what just happened to us - all 700B and many more of it ? It will be the greatest heist known - so long as I ensure my cut and I will, what do I care ?
But someone should. Really someone should.
-K
The pound dropped the most in a week versus the dollar since 1992 after U.K. services contracted the most in at least 12 years, fueling speculation the economy may already be in a recession and the Bank of England will cut interest rates soon.
Could the U.S. CA balance suffer after this is over? I don't expect U.S. exports of paper to continue at a solid pace. It might soon be good for good and therefore a very unpleasant adjustment. THE END of BW2.
This isn't about dollar strength but actually weakness.
Brad Setser: Follow the Money » Blog Archive
increased issuance of US debt (partly due to the securitization boom) has resulted in foreign[er]s increasing their holdings of US debt. These USD denominated assets need to be funded in USD. Even under normal circumstances, there is a limited supply of USD overseas. The natural sellers of USD in global funding markets are US based banks with large deposit bases. But in times of heightened market frictions, banks are reluctant to lend at all given the increased uncertainty about their own funding needs. As US-based institutions have scaled back their overseas lending, the premium for USD LIBOR has increased significantly.
JP - that was what I distilled from the babbling on CNBC Weds-Fri. I'm sure the appropriate politicos got the same fax.
Greenbacks blowing into drifts
All the Walls on the street falling down
Hoocoodanode
She is either an idiot or just somebody in the pocket of the Wall Street lobbying effort. Probably a little of both. --njdoc
Actually Barbara is a pretty smart cookie, and honest. I don't care much for her husband, who is an attorney and once represented me, but she's far and away better than Diane Feinstein, her sister Senator in CA.
i just got this mail gram from my senator:
hi
my names barbie boxxes
and i like to explain my vote in favor of the wall street bailout plan
you see, the el-presidente bushco and generalisimo paulsimon
informed me that the financial system is about to vaporize into thin air because of financial weapons of miss destitution
el-prsidente warned me that the next warning i get might be in the form of a mushroom clown
so i voted to give a big big, really big pile of money to the people who stole from us in the first place
because
who better to protect us than the people who know best how to rape us
right?
i know, i know, i know, what you are thinking
why didnt we take the last week that we used
to create an additional 140 plus pages of law
to generalisimo paoulsimons plan
and just use that time to create a really good plan where the banks are directly re-capitalized by the taxpayers money in exchange for first in line equity stakes..
well the answer is simple
shit laws like the one we just passed are fast and easy to put together
we keep a ready supply of pork infested legislation right there in the middle of our desks....ready to go
but the good stuff, that makes sense and benefits the average person
we dont have much use for that kind of legislation and so have to make it up from scratch on rare occasion when its needed.
tata...see you every six years for re-election.
RE,
Yah -- Intervention is like religion and the sins of the father are absolved every Sunday -- remission of sin, confession, renewal...
Boxer was only one of 7 senators that voted against the repeal of Glass-Steagal. She has been on our side before. We were steamrolled on this one. I am not going to blame her for this vote, though I am disappointed.
So those that are considering taking some emergency cash out of the bank ... in the event the SHTF ... where are you storing it your house? I don't have a safe. I was thinking about in my freezer. But I gotta believe there's better spots.
Let me see if I understand this correctly. Boxer says that Paulson and Bernanke called Congress "a few weeks ago" to say we need emergency action, and Boxer and the rest of Congress did nothing to get educated on what would be the smart thing to do, and during that time did not call Roubini, Stiglitz, Krugman (or CR) to understand the issues, so that when Paulson presented his plan, she and Congress just bought it hook, line and sinker? Can we start a recall on our Senators?
Three more fingers of who hit john and I'm toast. In the morning, a flakey croissant again.
Toasted and talking with you dudes and dudesses is enlightening.
Zaftra otrom.
Paka
"sm_landlord writes:
Patrick writes:
"I don't get it."
Simple. Politicians only listen to political advice. Anything not framed in political terms is ignored. You have to think like them to understand them."
Thank you, sm_landlord. This is what I am trying to get at. When the pols like Boxer saw the $700 billion spending proposal, they were much less interested in the long term underlying economics, and much more interested in the opportunity to catch some credit for the short-term gratification that the $700 billion would buy. They outsourced the economics, and did just enough so that they could put together 'marketing' pieces like Boxer's.
In 1995, over US $380 billion were in circulation, two-thirds of which was outside the United States. By 2005, that figure had doubled to nearly $760 billion, with an estimated half to two-thirds being held overseas, representing an annual growth rate of about 7.6%. However, as of December 2006, the dollar was surpassed by the euro in terms of combined value of cash in circulation. Since then the current value of euro cash in circulation has risen to more than 695 billion, equivalent to US$991 billion at current exchange rates.
NY Times reporting that Citi got home-court judge to issue TRO on Wachovia-Wells deal.
I don't think this plan changes the picture that the U.S. is heading into a deep recession for the fourth quarter,'' said Bertrand Delgado, a Latin America economist with New York-based IDEAglobal Inc.That's definitely something that is fundamentally going to impact the peso.''
Mexico's currency has depreciated each of the last six weeks. It sank 6.3 percent in September, also the worst monthly decline since 1998, and has dropped 12 percent from a six-year high reached on Aug. 4.
The cost of protecting developing nations' bonds against default rose. Five-year credit-default swaps based on Argentina's debt climbed 44 basis points to 12.55 percentage points, the highest since at least June 2005, according to Bloomberg data. That means it costs $1.255 million to protect $10 million of the country's debt from default.
Venezuela's five-year credit default swap rose 47 basis points to 10.48 percentage points.
Demand for emerging markets external debt is non- existent,'' said Luis Costa, an emerging-markets debt strategist at Commerzbank AG in London.All asset classes are readjusting to a new growth scenario
il, copper, and corn drove commodities toward their biggest weekly decline in more than 50 years on concern that the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression will push the U.S. into recession.
Commodities, as measured by the Reuters/Jefferies CRB Index of 19 raw materials, have tumbled 9.9 percent this week, the most since at least 1956. Manufacturing declined to a 7-year low in the U.S. and contracted at the fastest pace in 16 years in the U.K. last month. Initial jobless claims rose to the highest since 2001, the U.S. Labor Department said yesterday.
Panic, risk aversion and liquidation of contracts are characterizing the oil market as well as many other markets at the moment,'' said Thina Saltvedt, a Nordea Bank AB analyst in Oslo.Prices are not only being set by fundamentals, but fears of how crises in the financial sector may spread to other parts of the economy.''
I♥Bloomberg®
In other news...
Disney just re released "Sleeping beauty"
Buy buy buy...
(the title has some subtlety to it, no?)
Per Nostradamus: Citigroup Says Judge's Order Suspends Wachovia Deal - NY Times
Which countries do you think will exit the credit-crisis/deleveraging/bubble in say 5-10 years time?
The notion of first into trouble leads to first out of trouble does not pass the smell test with me, but much more instructive will be who had the fortune/foresight/luck to avoid capital losses and therefore will have the strongest recovery
Actually Barbara is a pretty smart cookie, and honest.
I voted for her when she was in House and when she moved to the Senate. Marinites like her a lot and for good reason, she is generally straight. I never liked Feinstein.
The damn shame is that this is actually a grand opportunity that we will turn on its head. Here we have the entire world on the brink of disaster, a moment ripe for unity of action, and it will no doubt be instead a prelude to war.
The very moment we could recognize our oneness.
Wasted.
Replaced with Hell.
FR and TR have brought gunboat diplomacy ashore.
Gunboat economics. You can sink right on land.
Re: Disney just re released "Sleeping beauty"
See: The Walt Disney Companys Sleeping Beauty Bonds
http://faculty.bschool.washington.edu/rbowen/Cases/Disney100yrBonds.pdf
See Also: The Australian dollar fell by the most this week since 1985 against the U.S. currency as investors cut holdings of higher-yielding assets on speculation the global economy won't avoid a recession.
When is this c()nts Senate term up?
Kona,
Very good points re: Mexico.
They have lost their manufacturing advantage and they are now suffering a decline in oil production coupled with 'recent' declines in prices.
I have no ideas. Could be brutal for a while.
I know that the border cartels are getting stronger. Weird world.
OK, someone explain this to me. The Feds can just print money right? So, they can print money and expand their balance sheet by buying whatever the heck they want with the new cash they make.
So, why is the treasury selling debt for the federal reserve? Are they trying to keep things 'sterilized'? I guess I'm confused on who actually controls the money supply.
http://www.fms.treas.gov/webservices/show/?ciURL=/dts/08100200.txt
Thanks.
re: Commodities
I'm not so sure steel makers and iron ore miners will take the hit. They've both consolidated by huge amounts, they can maintain their prices. If things do go down the tube they can just cut production, their only concerns are maintaining enough cash flow to service any debt (keep in mind most have more money than banks at this point)
This isn't the 1980s
C'mon Kona...don't you see ANYTHING other than dollars? So much irony get's lost...
WASHINGTON, DCCongressman Elton Gallegly (R-Ventura & Santa Barbara Counties) issued this statement today after voting against the Economic Stabilization Act for the second time:
There is no doubt our economy faces a crisis. To resolve it, we need a solution that addresses the core reasons for the crisis. As I have said repeatedly, while I do not like government intervention, if we are to intervene, we must do so correctly. I believe this bill is fundamentally flawed and Congress should stay in Washington and not leave until we get the right solution.
The bill the House considered today is virtually identical to the one which the House rejected Monday, except that the Senate added numerous provisions that will not help the credit crunch facing our nation. Some of these provisions can only be defined as pork at its worst. In the midst of a crisis, how can we justify special interest tax breaks of $192 million aimed at Puerto Rican rum, $148 million for wool fabric producers, $100 million for race track owners, $2 million for kids practice arrow makers, and $33 million to American Samoa, which benefits Star-Kist Tuna in Speaker Pelosis district?
The underlying reason for our economic problem is that people are in homes they cant afford and for which they never should have qualified. The roots of this go back to previous Administrations, when lenders were told they had to make loans to individuals who could not afford them. This was only compounded by tens of thousands of people, including illegal immigrants, who were given loans without proper scrutiny and often put no money down and made few payments, if any at all. Add to that greedy Wall Street scoundrels, unscrupulous mortgage brokers, and an ocean of consumer debt and it is easier to understand how we got into this mess.
None of these problems have been addressed in this bill. With the passage of this flawed bill today, it is even more important that we aggressively make the necessary changes to end these policies and ensure this never happens again. I fully intend to focus my energy on that.
#
Those complaining about the form letter: Are you actually expecting her to compose 90,000 individual letters?
Posters with enough largesse to document their bellies, their materialism, even vulgar enough to speak of their sex organs and anuses with broad scope. Enough to make lifetime profligates cringe. But speak the word of God, or nuance the same, recommend any flavour of true virtue...and this "secular" tribe will arrow out true "diatribe". Every disgusting vulgarity of lowest human nature may be plainly spoken, but bring up the author of all creation? Harpys spring upon you. Truly, if this secular monetary phenomena coming to be is to be truly understood, it must be through multiple lenses. Too much commonplace here, too much shortmindedness, too much commonness. It is more than graphs, analysis, mathematical models; it devolves to a degradation of humanity. When a 70 year passage of life and its accumulations have no more higher intent than next day's speculative gain, depression, devastation, destruction is more than that host warrants. Wake up primitive man. Wake up to your purpose and potential. Otherwise continue your sordid bonobo chants to each other about daily dietary, elimanatory, and accumulatory doings.
The central bank may lower its economic growth forecast to zero for the fiscal year ending March, the Nikkei newspaper said on Oct. 2, without citing sources. In July, the BOJ cut its projection to 1.2 percent from 1.5 percent.
There was a 30 percent chance yesterday the central bank will reduce its target rate to 0.25 percent by year-end, according to calculations by JPMorgan Chase & Co. using overnight swaps.
Wow, that guy gets it, Rob.
I agree Johnny Lee...greed sucks. The Buddha agrees too. The Buddha also thinks it's a bitch when those you trust lie and manipulate you...
Just thought I'd throw that out there...
Barbara, you were scammed.
The following courtesy of William Engdahl:
Paulsons impressive interest conflicts
Paulson Bailout
.... "Paulson showed where his interests lay. He is by law is the chairman of something called the President's Working Group on Financial Markets, the Governments financial crisis management group that also includes Fed Chairman Bernanke, the Securities & Exchange Commission head, and the head of the Commodity Futures Exchange Commission (CFTC). That is the reason Paulson, the ex-Wall Street Goldman Sachs banker, is always the person announcing new emergency decisions since last August.
Two weeks ago, for example, Paulson announced the Government would make an unprecedented $85 billion nationalization rescue of an insurance group, AIG. True AIG is the worlds largest insurer and has a huge global involvement in financial markets.
AIGs former Chairman, Hank Greenberg―a close friend of Henry Kissinger, a former Director of the New York Fed, former Vice Chairman of the elite New York Council on Foreign Relations and of David Rockefellers select Trilateral Commission, Trustee Emeritus of Rockefeller University―was for more than forty years Chairman of AIG. His AIG career ended in March 2005 when AIG's board forced Greenberg to resign from his post as Chairman and CEO under the shadow of criticism and legal action for cooking the books, in a prosecution brought by Eliot Spitzer, then Attorney General of New York State.1
In mid September, in between other dramatic failures including Lehman Bros., and the bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Paulson announced that the US Treasury, as agent for the United States Government, was to bailout the troubled AIG with a staggering $85 billion. The announcement came a day after Paulson announced the Government would let the 150-year old investment bank, Lehman Brothers, fail without Government aid. Why AIG and not Lehman?
What has since emerged are details of a meeting at the New York Federal Reserve bank chaired by Paulson, to discuss the risk of letting AIG fail. There was only one active Wall Street banker present at the meeting―Lloyd Blankfein, chairman of Paulsons old firm, Goldman Sachs.
Blankfein later claimed he was present at the fateful meeting not to protect his firms interests but to safeguard the entire financial system. His claim was put in doubt when it later emerged that Blankfeins Goldman Sachs was AIGs largest trading partner and stood to lose $20 billion in a bankruptcy of AIG.2 Were Goldman Sachs to go down with AIG, Secretary Paulson would have reportedly lost $700 million in Goldman Sachs stock options he had, an interesting fact to put it mildly if true.
That is a tiny glimpse into the man who crafted the largest bailout in US or world financial history some days ago."
Oooowe Jonny Lee,
Why not just paint a bullseye on your rump?
What we all ALL talking about here is MORALITY. That inflation is immoral. Politicians for the most part are immoral. Banks are shylocks and should be driven from the temple!
Hang around and smell the mustard gas...
"Rob Dawg writes:
WASHINGTON, DCCongressman Elton Gallegly (R-Ventura & Santa Barbara Counties) issued this statement today after voting against the Economic Stabilization Act for the second time:"
Rob Dawg, thank you. That is the most welcome comment on CR that I've seen in a while. I was beginning to think that there were no California politicians who had any spine and honesty. My cynical theory of how most politicians work is still intact, unfortunately, but it's refreshing to see one that rises above all that.
And he's mine. Actually the two page letter* he sent after the first defeat was even more detailed and topical. I'll scan it tomorrow after I get back from Disneyland. Yes, really. "Hey Rob Dawg, you just got dry reamed in an act of fiscal suicide that took out democracy as collateral damage? What are you going to do now?" "Now? I'm going to Disneyland!"
"California wouldn't be able to sell voter-approved highway, school, and water bonds that are desperately needed for our economy and the creation of good-paying new jobs"
"the root of the problem is the unwillingness to actually be taxed for what voters demand"
wait a minute... you mean there's no free lunch?
I was thinking about in my freezer.
You're joking, right? First place a good thief looks!
But a common mistake. In fact, that's where they found Congressman Jefferson stashing his bribe money!
Dan-in-PA,
In finance, the yield curve is the relation between the interest rate (or cost of borrowing) and the time to maturity of the debt for a given borrower in a given currency. For example, the current U.S. dollar interest rates paid on U.S. Treasury securities for various maturities are closely watched by many traders, and are commonly plotted on a graph such as the one on the right which is informally called "the yield curve."
Like the Buddha. Spent time in a Nichiren Soushu Temple. Peaceful. Seems to contain the unwieldy passions of man, and direct them to positive production. So stark, in a nation where war and warriorship was strongly inculcated--peace and beauty was worshipped alongside. Monks sought pure virtue and avoided all contention where possible. Admirable.
"RhodesianGreenbackinAZ writes:
So those that are considering taking some emergency cash out of the bank ... in the event the SHTF ... where are you storing it your house? I don't have a safe. I was thinking about in my freezer. But I gotta believe there's better spots."
The freezer is about the WORST place to put it. Every burglar looks there. A safe also sucks, unless you buy a serious (3,000 pound plus behemoth) you just advertise the location of the swag. Think creative carpentry to build a hiding hole. Or put it in a piece of ABS pipe with glued on end caps and bury it in the desert with GPS logs.
Actually, yes, I was. I was hoping to generate some "The Onion"-esque ideas from the peanut gallery.
I can already see their USA Today like stat-shot ... "Where are we hiding our money?"
unirealist writes:
I was thinking about in my freezer.
You're joking, right? First place a good thief looks!
But a common mistake. In fact, that's where they found Congressman Jefferson stashing his bribe money!
unirealist | 10.05.08 - 12:54 am | #
Lets all admire socialism for thats what the common man really needs..Welcome to serfdom.
Bluestatedon,you can still get a free lunch is San Francisco...in the castro.
Peak VT 's link is to this New York Times story:
Citigroup Persuades Judge to Suspend Wachovia Deal
Isn't that like an 8.0?
The Times also notes:
"Citigroup is represented by the New York lawyer Gregory P. Joseph; Wachovia by David Boies of Boies, Schiller & Flexner; and Wells Fargo by Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz, according to people briefed on the matter."
Boies was Al Gore's lawyer in 2000 in Florida.
re: Walt Disney 100yr bonds
I wonder if we'll see any long dated callable bonds issued. From a corporate standpoint they lock in your interest rate as things are getting worse, and they let you opt for lower rates once we push through to the other side. Being free from rollovers in the short term should carry a premium right now to make it beneficial for some companies.
Heck, the Treasury ought to do it as they need to rebalance the debt schedule and they are getting ridiculous prices right now
So, a tsunami of global cash floods into the dollar conduit of short term money markets that buy short term Treasury bills, which are crashing in value to almost zero..
I'm still slow on the dollar thing... gimmie a second to reset
I'll scan it tomorrow after I get back from Disneyland.
Rob Dawg, are you going to Miley's birthday party?
Dear Kona...
I swap dollars for gas dude...see my 1st post in this thread....
But I don't mind learning.
Jeez Jonny Lee,
Get thee to a monastary, and stay there.
Fear of combat in the real world requires you to spend time in another world. Flee...Flee. Run away...Run away!
No sissies need apply.
This is actually quite an interesting take:
Reserved Place: Beware rising custody holdings
... The dollars being lent by the participating central banks (the European Central Bank plus the central banks of Britain, Switzerland, Japan, Canada, Australia, Sweden, Denmark and Norway) are lent to them by the Federal Reserve, in return for a loan of their own currency, under a reciprocal swap lines arrangement. Being risk-averse institutions, central banks normally lend only against relatively good collateral when conducting liquidity-providing operations. When lending dollars to their own commercial banks, although central banks may be happy to take domestic currency bonds, they are likely to request additional collateral to do so, to provide additional protection against the currency mismatch. For example, the Bank of England requires 4% more collateral if non-dollar securities are pledged. In view of this, some of the central banks counterparties may pledge dollar bonds, including US Treasury and agency securities. If so, like the Bank of England, the central bank may request that the collateral be delivered into its Fed custody account for safekeeping. As it appears that the Fed custody holdings are reported on a settled basis (as opposed to a done basis), to the extent that the foreign central banks do take treasuries and agencies as collateral, their custody account holdings can be expected to increase.
Since the reciprocal swap arrangements have been expanded three times already this month, on the 18th, 24th, and 26th, and because the central banks involved have increased their dollar lending, other things equal, it would not be surprising to see an increase in Fed custody holdings at the moment. But this would not necessarily mean that central banks are accumulating dollar reserves, and may conceivably be concealing a reduction in dollar reserves holdings.
Uh-oh, Rob Dawg, was that letter from Gallegly a private one to you? I know he voted in a way that shows courage, but I am wondering if the letter reads differently for different voters, depending on which side they were on. So the "other" letter might read:
Dear X, thank you for ... I voted against the bills, but I agree you need to be rescued from that nasty $1 million you owe on your 1500 sq ft stucco box. I just didn't think these 2 proposals did enough to protect you against the predatory financial institutions who forced you to take that loan, and are now inconveniently looking for repayment of the money they gave you to buy it.
I look forward to supporting a future bill that frees you of your obligations more surely and completely.
Yours.."
Were Goldman Sachs to go down with AIG, Secretary Paulson would have reportedly lost $700 million in Goldman Sachs stock options he had, an interesting fact to put it mildly if true.
Can anyone verify Paulson actually has 700M in GS options. The size of the number makes me call urban legend.
Safeguard the bond market, at all costs. Final defense.
charles hugh smith-Weblog and Essays
The Bush Coup/Paulson have blessed us all with a steep yield curve, i.e, if you believe what Treasury is saying, they built this curve to suggest that there has been on-going growth and we are about to enter a new stage of expansion -- IMHO, this is kinda like Rumsfeld: As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know.
Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing
FYI: US TREASURY YIELD CURVE
Composite Bond Rates: Bonds Center - Yahoo! Finance
Historically, the 20-year Treasury bond yield has averaged approximately two percentage points above that of three-month Treasury bills. In situations when this gap increases (e.g. 20-year Treasury yield rises relatively higher than the three-month Treasury yield), the economy is expected to improve quickly in the future. This type of curve can be seen at the beginning of an economic expansion (or after the end of a recession).
Bonus: Note that even if we can solve this equation, we will only have determined P(t) for those t which have a cash flow from one or more of the original instruments we are creating the curve from. Values for other t are typically determined using some sort of interpolation scheme.
Extra Bonus: In their comprehensive book on interest rate modelling James and Webber note that the following techniques have been suggested to solve the problem of finding P:
WTF?
Johnny Lee: this site is godsend, "Surely the Lord was in this place and I knew it not.."
Dear Senator Boxer,
I am a life long democrat. Voting for you and a democratic ticket for 12 years since I have become a US citizen.
There is no real difference between the so-called "blank check" that Paulson asked for and the end result.
The Democratic party participated in one of the worst bills ever to come out of congress - this convinced me to switch my vote to Republican in the house and future senate races.
I know you are not running now but my decision is based on this cardinal issue and - I will not forget it.
The $700B bought some time, few month only, at a great expense to the American tax payer. What if anything are you willing to do in order to correct this horrible mistake ?
Rest assure that if Congress does nothing to correct itself the horrible economic situation will become clear within the next 2 years - in fact much sooner.
You may have only 3-4 month to completely change this legislation and I am willing to discuss this, offer my input - which in part is based on this plan:
http://www.stopthehousingbailout.com/genesis.pdf
In addition I want to point out that Wall street firm Goldman Sacks alone paid $62B in bonuses - not just to the top 5 CEO and VPs - to employees at all levels during 2006. If you add up what Wall street and bankers have received over the past 8 years - this could easily fund a large portion of this bailout.
It is not the American people that need to pay for Wall street mistakes - but they will pay for it twice: Once with their tax dollars who fund the bailout and once with the unavoided economic decline.
Are you willing to propose legislation which would retroactively increase taxes on wall street bonuses and stock options to 100% of any amount they make over $250K? These people simply not deserve the money they were getting while skimming all Americans and destroying our economy . keep in mind that they have legal ways of not reporting large parts of their income .
Nice link RE
Off-topic: I googled "inverted yield curve" because I remember it well, it was year end 2005.
(CNN, Dec 27 2005) Riding the yield curve
The curve briefly inverted for the first time in 5 years -- but does that mean a recession looms?
According to a 2003 analysis by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, each of the six recessions since 1970 was preceded by a yield curve inversion -- an unnerving precedence. But there are always exceptions to the rule, said Stuart Schweitzer, global market strategist at JPMorgan Asset Management.
...
He added that inflation remains mild and the economy is growing at a surprisingly solid clip, despite concerns over high energy prices.
"The economy is resilient. Christmas sales were fine, not outstandingly good, but solid," he said. "There's no evidence that a rise in interest rates is sufficiently damaging spending."
(Knowledge@Wharton, Jan 25 2006) Don't Sweat the Inverted Yield Curve: No One Really Knows What It Means
"All the forecasts are quite favorable. There aren't any real excesses in the economy at the current time, and you usually think of recession as a tonic to the economy, to undo excess."
The quotes you can dig up aren't so terrible if you accept that they are narrow-minded and short-sighted. The elderly have no patience these days
I think the Peons are going to get quite pissy with the politicians who voted for this Bill.and soon...this problem has legs,and a lot of them if the number of shoes dropped so far is any indication.I can see Feinstein losing to a challenger over this...
Citigroup Says Judge's Order Suspends Wachovia Deal - NY Times
Hat tip FFDIC:
Citigroup Persuades Judge to Suspend Wachovia Deal
EvilHenryPaulson,
And that yield curve was inverted for a loooonng time. It did take a while but it was still a very nice and early tell. I wonder how long it will be until we deny its predictive power again.
and the yield curve is rudimentary macro economics 201?
Cause if it is, then it's a trillion dollar ripoff..
FYI Oldrich Vasicek
Oldrich Vasicek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Can anyone verify Paulson actually has 700M in GS options. The size of the number makes me call urban legend.
are you kidding me | 10.05.08 - 1
Paulson had $500mn in GS that he divested of and rolled-into a "government mutual fund" to avoid taxes, this is rare within the current executive. The Bush administration is unique in history in that members did not divest themselves of conflicts of interest (Rumsfeld + Gilead, Cheney + Halliburton, Rice + Chevron, etc).
That being said, even though it is a unspecified government mutual fund, I trust Paulson is fully aware of exactly what his money is in and has some freedom of what sectors/strategies it is invested in. It probably played no small part in his early decision to not serve under the next President, so that he could retake control of it asap.
At sixteen you departed,
You went into far Ku-to-Yen, by the river of swirling eddies,
And you have been gone five months.
The monkeys make sorrowful noise overhead.
You dragged your feet when you went out.
By the gate now, the moss is grown, the different mosses,
Too deep to clear them away!
The leaves fall early this autumn, in wind.
The paired butterflies are already yellow with August
Over the grass in the West garden,
They hurt me.
I grow older,
If you are coming down through the narrows of the river Kiang,
Please let me know beforehand,
And I will come out to meet you,
As far as Cho-fu-Sa.
Ezra had fine notions about money and economy. He spoke plainly and without guile. He suffered for it.
FYI: Vasicek's model was the first one to capture mean reversion, an essential characteristic of the interest rate that sets it apart from other financial prices. Thus, as opposed to stock prices for instance, interest rates cannot rise indefinitely. This is because at very high levels they would hamper economic activity, prompting a decrease in interest rates. Similarly, interest rates can not decrease indefinitely. As a result, interest rates move in a limited range, showing a tendency to revert to a long run value.
I can't believe Wells and Citi are fighting over Wachovia. Winner gets one of the world's largest toxic option-ARM portfolio. Plus the fight may kill Wachovia - nothing like a court fight over an attempted shutdown to inspire confidence in its depositors.
Getting deeper in the well:
The drift factor a(b − rt) represents the expected instantaneous change in the interest rate at time t. The parameter b represents the long run equilibrium value towards which the interest rate reverts. Indeed, in the absence of shocks (dWt =
, the interest remains constant when rt = b. The parameter a, governing the speed of adjustment, needs to be positive to ensure stability around the long term value. For example, when rt is below b, the drift term a(b − rt) becomes positive for positive a, generating a tendency for the interest rate to move upwards (toward equilibrium).
The main disadvantage is that, under Vasicek's model, it is theoretically possible for the interest rate to become negative, an undesirable feature. This shortcoming was fixed in the Cox-Ingersoll-Ross model. The Vasicek model was further extended in the Hull-White model.
YouTube - Water From The Well
Fannie Mae forgives loan for woman who shot herself - CNN.com
Paulson had $500mn in GS that he divested of and rolled-into a "government mutual fund" to avoid taxes, this is rare within the current executive. The Bush administration is unique in history in that members did not divest themselves of conflicts of interest (Rumsfeld + Gilead, Cheney + Halliburton, Rice + Chevron, etc).
That pretty much discredits the story... He does not own 700M in GS options.
Here's my response to Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison
Over the next four years I hope you come to realize you passed up our last chance to lance this economic wound and let it drain. You ignored your constituents who were ready for the pain and opted instead for another placebo painkiller. Maybe it was and is too late to avert a systemic crash, but you could have tried. Washington is no less a villain in what is unfolding than Wall Street or NAR. I doubt this will actually reach you or influence you in anyway but I will be able to pass a copy on to my grandchildren along with articles and posts to show them the dangers of fiscal irresponsibility.
So now that I have submitted my address I can watch my tax dollars wasted on postage for mail telling me how hard she is working for my interests.
Ignorance is no excuse.
They're all pigs.
good night all.
"I think the hypothesis for the 3 is that each bank will look at their balance sheets and - mirabile visu! - find themselves solvent, and thus (stay with me on this) assume that all the others are as well."
There are a few things missing in your description of 3. once the market price of all the MBS junk or not are known. Everyone can evaluate banks balance sheet objectively. Banks are not required to mark to market. But the market price will help investor evaluate each bank individual. Some banks that has done a good job in reserving for loss in the last year or two will be able to sell their loan to Treasury at higher price than their mark, and actually move their capital ratio up and getting more cash in their balance. The rest of the banks will fight for private money and the not so good bank will die.. Essentially market will divide banks into two groups, the good one and the bad one. Good one will be trust and bad one will have no business partner and left to die. The process should be pretty fast (six to nine months). And the hope is that once the recap is done, the credit market will be back to normal and we will deal with the fallout of the rest of the economy. The risk is that 6-9 months is too long and our economy can't wait that long for the credit market to go back to normal.. It is a very dicey situation. And most everyone is not ready for the fallout. When business of any size cannot get credit, we will have wide spread layoff and depression like condition.
The standard deviation factor, , corrects the main drawback of Vasicek's model, ensuring that the interest rate cannot become negative. Thus, at low values of the interest rate, the standard deviation becomes close to zero, cancelling the effect of the random shock on the interest rate. Consequently, when the interest rate gets close to zero, its evolution becomes dominated by the drift factor, which pushes the rate upwards (towards equilibrium).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cox-Ingersoll-Ross_model
Oh, that's total bullshit, if you have a shock like Katrina and the levee breaks, what are yah gonna do, say the fucking wall held up during the surge? That's criminal shit!
I hear you who has spoken, and have gone to Padanaram. My pillows are still of stone, but I stay awake hoping to behold...
Yal writes: "In addition I want to point out that Wall street firm Goldman Sacks alone paid $62B in bonuses - not just to the top 5 CEO and VPs - to employees at all levels during 2006. If you add up what Wall street and bankers have received over the past 8 years - this could easily fund a large portion of this bailout."
Yal, I wish you luck. You may want to fact-check to make sure you get maximum impact, and it's always better to say it nicely (and firmly).
So, we have all these losses. We can see $xbillion in Lehman, and $y billion in MER, and... We are getting counts of who lost all that money. Are we getting any accounting of who got the money, and how much? I see comments about investment and other bankers, but how much of those losses went into the pockets of mortgage brokers? RE agents? Homeowners? Criminal gangs? Does anyone know of good sources? My personal guess is that homeowners got the biggest piece of the pie, but I'd love to see an independent and intelligent breakout.
The United States should sell 10 million citizenships for $4 million each = $4 trillion, enough to recapitalize the system or even buy everyone a home
Woops, make that $400,000 each
Barbara Boxer is a complete failure. She couldn't balance her checkbook let alone understand this bill. Every time her and Feinstein are voted into office I realize how stupid people are. I challenge anyone to find me one significant contribution Boxer has made to her Country.
EvilHenry,
You can get a green card for 500K investment.
REBear,
Well then that is the problem. Spend a few million on a world wide advertising campaign with a bonus of no criminal background check for the next 6 months
yeap. and also no quesions on source of funds.
Plus, a foreclosed house for each new arrival
The Congress used to have hearings on legislation so they could all get at least some of the same information and expert testimony at the same time.
Why, as recently as this year we were being told that some actions could not even be contemplated by them because of all the time-consuming hearings that would be necessary.
Uncle Billy, Where the hell are you?
This insanity goes back 6 months ago here @ CR!
FYI: In mathematics, the Wiener process is a continuous-time stochastic process named in honor of Norbert Wiener. It is often called Brownian motion, after Robert Brown.
E.G: Re (@CR): Robert Cote said:
"Consumers are not as stupid as is generally assumed."
Sure they are. They operate like particles in Brownian motion. GIve them more space (credit) and they will fill (take) it. Push back and they collapse.
Confused | 10.04.08 - 10:00 am | #
Fuck you Pelosi. Suck a dick. God help us. The road ahead is going to be interesting indeed.
The same to you Boxer.
I stand on Jacob's Ladder. I see the elevation and degradation of my peers. Here the ruination of their root and stock, there the gate of heaven where others are found sound. How dreadful is this place!
Ok new arrivals also get to hear Dodd and Palin's speach on ethics and hockey moms.
Anyone remember this guy, who will help us with a better yield curve?
Louis Bachelier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Louis Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Bachelier (March 11, 1870 - April 28, 1946)[1] was a French mathematician at the turn of the 20th century. He is credited with being the first person to model Brownian motion, which was part of his PhD thesis The Theory of Speculation, (published 1900).
His thesis, which discussed the use of Brownian motion to evaluate stock options, is historically the first paper to use advanced mathematics in the study of finance. Thus, Bachelier is considered a pioneer in the study of financial mathematics and stochastic processes.
Also See: On the movement of small particles suspended in a stationary liquid demanded by the molecular-kinetic theory of heat), was a journal article authored by Albert Einstein and published in Annalen der Physik in May 1905. It was an important publication on the brownian motion of fluids.
I challenge anyone to find me one significant contribution Boxer has made to her Country.
None bigger than voting against the Iraq war.
So now that I have submitted my address I can watch my tax dollars wasted on postage for mail telling me how hard she is working for my interests.
Hutch | 10.05.08 - 1:28 am | #
Hutch,
I've written to Kay 'Bitchy' Hutchison many times and it is a total waste of energy. I have never understood why she thinks she is so beloved by ALL Texans. That clearly is NOT the case.
So much doom and gloom, at least the USA still has a credit rating better than Italy's for now. Might even get to see France's credit rating be downgraded to AA first
Bush Signs Bank Rescue to End `Threat to Economy'
Bush Signs Bank Rescue to End `Threat to Economy' (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
"I don't get it. Boxer or any other Congressman could easily pick up the phone and call any or all of Roubini, Krugman, Stiglitz, Thoma, etc... to get an education. I see no evidence that any of them bothered to get good independent advice from anyone with even the slightest clue."
do you notice that the solution these economist perscribed mean that the US economy will crash and burn? i.e. they will let the banks and everything fall without any intervention. And the theory is that the system coming out at the other end will be much better. Before anyone say yes to the system, you better have a gut check. What if you loss your job as part of the cleansing proccess? loss you home?? loss all your saving because the instition that hold your financial asset fail? do without essential state service becasue your state cannot get any short term loan and cannot afford to pay worker salary (and they cannot get any loan because the credit market was frozen). Still ready to say yes?
The problem with Roubini etc. is that they are not responsible for anyone else well being. So they are taking the high road and go with a solution that has max impact on everyone life. They can easily say "oops, I was wrong" after their idea proved to be wrong.
I don't think a lot of people pick up Boxer comment here:
" I was told by the Governor's office, that without action, our state might be forced to withhold funds for law enforcement, schools, and other needed services."
Most probably just write it off as an exagggeration. What if it is a true statement. Would you still object the bailout plan? and if so are you ready for the failout?
Fuck you Pelosi. Suck a dick. God help us. The road ahead is going to be interesting indeed.
Aliva | 10.05.08 - 1:41 am | #
This is what happens when you watch too much CSPAN, Porn, Trinity Broadcast Network and Benny Hinn.
Miss Boxer, I know you may not have time for this but, I think you need to start looking @ negative interest rates:
t t 0 s Although this
makes the
makes the drift term become positive so that the rate
model has many advantages, it has also shortcomings. The main advantage is
that it has an explicit expressions. Moreover, rt is normally distributed and
the possibility of negative rates is indeed a ma jor shortcoming of this model.
In the model, the parameter α is the long run normal interest rate. There-
fore, the model exhibits mean reversion, which means that if the interest rate
is bigger than the long run mean (r> α), then the coefficient β (>
drift become negative so that the rate will be pulled down in the direction of
r. Similarly, if the interest rate is smaller than the long run mean (r> α), then
the coefficient β (>
will be pulled up in the direction of r. Therefore, the coefficient β is the speed
of adjustment of the interest rate towards its long run level. There are also
compelling economic arguments in favor of mean reversion. When the rates are
high, the economy tends to slow down and borrowers require less funds. Fur-
thermore, the rates pull back to its equilibrium value and the rates decline.
ONE-FACTOR INTEREST RATE MODELS: ANALYTIC SOLUTIONS
AND APPROXIMATIONS
http://www3.iam.metu.edu.tr/iam/images/9/9e/Yelizyolcuthesis.pdf
Re: We finally adapted the trinomial interest rate tree technique to the Hull-White (Extended
Vasicek) model to represent the evolution of Turkeys zero coupon rates.
I'm thinking instead of ??? when trying to figure out how a process will get from point to point, we should use a substitute.
For example, from JP's earlier post:
Barring the hoopajoop wand, maybe they could just do a cutaway to an episode of The Banana Splits:
The Banana Splits - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
All Hail the HoopaJoop!
save the brainiac interest-rate models.
we're doomed to do every single one of japan's mistakes 12 years ago whether we like or not. the differences is our middle class doesn't have postal accounts stuffed with cash. we just have a pile of debt and tapped out housing equity.
Can I have a job @ Treasury??
FYI: One possibility would be the issuance of zero-coupon bonds, as a means to provide primary debt instruments with greater flexibility for use by both financial intermediaries and end-investors. This special feature analyses the pros and cons of zero-coupon issuance and stripping facilities, particularly from the more technical perspective of issuers and investors. 4 2.C HARACTERISTICS OF ZERO - COUPON BONDS AND STRIPS The basic characteristic of a zero-coupon bond is its simple construction, with only a single cash flow at the redemption date. Zero-coupon bonds are typically sold at a deepdiscount and offer no promised coupon payments, so that the investor gains only from price appreciation towards par value over the maturity of the bond. When a zero-coupon bond matures, the investor receives a lump sum equivalent to his initial investment plus the implied compound interest accruing over the life of the bond. Zero-coupon bonds have been issued by public-sector and private-sector issuers. While the maturity of thesebonds vary, they would typically be more than ten years, allowing the investor to plan for the longer-term and to choose the maturity date to coincide with a specific event e.g. retirement....
Pension funds and insurance companies like to own long maturity zero coupon bonds because of the bonds' high duration. This high duration means that these bonds' prices are particularly sensitive to changes in the interest rate, and therefore offset, or immunize the interest rate risk of these firms' long-term liabilities.
Yield curve traders and academics use zero coupon bonds to precisely analyze the yield curve. This is because any fixed income security can be broken down into individual cashflows and viewed as an equivalent portfolio of zero coupon bonds. Analysts can then price fixed income securities by discounting each individual cash flow by the appropriate discount rate implied by zero coupon bonds.
Marc Faber said previously in June,
The federal government is sending each of us a $600 rebate...............
The only way to keep that money here at home is to spend it on prostitutes and beer, since these are the only products still produced in US. Ive been doing my part.
"Trinity Broadcast Network"
You mean "The Holy Beamer?"
Benny Hinn? I thought he was dead.
.
Ms. Boxer, FU** YOU!!
.
FFDIC...I second the comment on Kay B Hutch (grew up in TX). My only problem is I left "her state" only to land in Boxer and Pelosi territory.
Fannie, Freddie & Derivatives
OpEdNews - Diary: Fannie, Freddie & Derivatives
The idea behind this special trade, presented in its most primitive form, is this: Suppose you pay $100 for a pot of gold. Half the pot is real gold worth $90 and the other half is fool's gold worth $10. If tomorrow the two halves still are worth $90 and $10, and you sell the real gold for $90, can you claim a profit? The answer must be no, right?"
The zero coupon bond is simple. It's just a single payment, made by the U.S. government, at some specified future date....
Kona, please stop cutting and pasting. It's not adding anything we need.
Ahhh yes, the snakes are out looking to catch some travelers that are running around chasing yield and looking for protection for the sheep that need a place to rest:
Re: Principal protected notes trade just like stocks on the major exchanges. When they're issued, part of the proceeds go into a zero-coupon bond that guarantees the principal at maturity. That's why there's "zero downside." The rest of the proceeds are used to purchase the underlying assets - stocks, metals, etc.
Anyone remember this con-job shit?
Sorry Ms Boxer, you need to trust this lady and not the crooks that taked you into the shit you heard last week!
Collateralized Debt Obligations & Structured Finance
by Janet Tavakoli
Collateralized Debt Obligations & Structured Finance & Securitization
Equity Repacked in Principal Protected Notes
" Equity is usually repackaged with zero coupon bonds issued by highly rated entities. A special purpose entity issues a note with proceeds adequate to buy the zero coupon which accretes to par at maturity to pay off the principal on the note. The remaining note proceeds are used to purchase the equity tranche of the collateralized debt obligation, which provides cash flows for interest payments on the note. "
patientrenter ,
What do you have?
YAL:
Retroactive taxes are unconstitutional as ex post facto...
To get back equity lost in ceo past bonuses you raise estate and capital gains taxes. Or dilute with cash directed at everyone else (Dems stimulus package, pork, etc.).
Shut up free market extremists your ideology is dead. You may opt out and take your chances with the markets.
There is a reason we call them public corporations, you know.
Last post ok, for tonight:
Enron, JP Morgan, and Sureties - Conflict over the Mahonia Transactions
"Game theory is the study of conflict between thoughtful and potentially deceitful opponents. In his minimax theorem John von Neumann mathematically proved there is always a rational solution to a precisely defined conflict between two players whose interests are completely opposed. When Enron declared bankruptcy, the interests of the insurers and of J.P. Morgan were opposed."
Kona, I've manufactured some principal-protected notes, but none backed by MBS. They vary a lot. Sounds like you had a bad experience with them. What type caused the problem?
This is what happens when you watch too much CSPAN, Porn, Trinity Broadcast Network and Benny Hinn.
FFDIC | 10.05.08 - 2:00 am | #
I suppose I was a bit hasty and vulgar. But what do you expect from a 14 year old latino kid fro east LA?
Also, whats wrong with porn? It happens to reflect much what goes on in the real world.
"el-prsidente warned me that the next warning i get might be in the form of a mushroom clown"
Mock Toitle I shit my g-chip.
I hate you Barbara Boxer.
Man that felt good to say.
Structured Hoopajoop Investment Trust
Why retroactive taxes are unconstitutional ?
in nay case there should be other ways to do it such as tax existing capital and real estate holdings on everyone in specific industry with holdings above $5M.
This is actually even better since those people have ways to hide mauch of their income but there is one thing that they can not hide: their real estate....
NY Times article on Fannie and Freddie:
Pressured to Take More Risk, Fannie Reached Tipping Point - NY Times
Very instructive. Two choice quotes:
Paul Krugman is already predicting Bailout Package 2.0 before the next administration.
Dave,
There is nothing they can do beyond spending up to the debt limit and cutting the fed funds rate until January. Well technically they could call an emergency session in December but things would be disorganized. They go to battle with the $700bn toolbox they have, not the $4tn toolbox they want
It's weird to think that the Fed Funds rate will probably be at 0.25 or 0.5% some time next year. Can you imagine a discount window rate of sub 1%? We should see Greenspan flap his gums when that happens, and then he can expire a happy ma
FWIW.....
Paulson sold his GS stock at what turned out to be a rather good price -- much higher then today.
He took advantage of a program that allowed him to sell and reinvest without paying taxes.
Nice windfall.
This was the better part of $1 billion.
I dunno if he has some misc stuff, but nothing really material.
If anyone really cares, they can look it up. He may well be predisposed to favor GS based on personal relationships, etc. but it isn't credible to say that he has a significant financial interest in it. Unless someone can find something specific.
Too much trouble to research, but the WSJ had an article about how selling (and tax deferred, no less) was an unexpected windfall for Paulson.
The guy is rich and doesn't have a material financial conflict of interest.
Yeah, I remember the inverted yield curve well. I also remember that people were saying it's highly correlated with recesssions. They said that at the same time they were saying we're going to have a soft landing.
Dang, only 13 visitors online?
I give you all a Photoshop gift...
My view of Bernanke and Paulsen...
Those who missed the VP debate, here's the summary :-
YouTube -
"Yeah, I remember the inverted yield curve well. I also remember that people were saying it's highly correlated with recesssions."
Ignore the inverted yield curve at your peril. Typically, it predicts a recession four to six quarters out, although it says little about the severity of the recession.
Conjure says, "Look upon it as an early warning indicator."
MP, I was clumsily trying to point out the silliness of the soft landing, not disputing the predictive power of the curve.
(Imagine Ben in a shimmering gossamer gown, crown on head and wand in hand. ) Then, #3 is "Why you've had the power all along , my dear. Just tap your heels together and say "There's no place like home"."
"sore yogi writes:
YAL:
Retroactive taxes are unconstitutional as ex post facto..."
Funny the protection doesn't work in reverse for the Hapless US Taxpayer.
Retroactive ass-raping of the taxpayer is alive and well.
Why is it consitutional for the Taxpayer to get reamed in the ass by fatcats who've behaved recklessly?
Why are we forced to recapitalize these banks and have no equity to show for it?
Why is it the banks will sell their junk at above-market prices, and be able to buy it back within 5 years for 20% of the purchase price, the difference added to the taxpayer liabilities?
Why is it when the IRS comes after me, my kids, and my grandkids for that money, that they'll be able to demand their money at the point of a gun?
Where's the gun pointed at the Wall Street crooks?
Why is everyone such a fan of Barbara Boxer?
She's a corporate sellout and a liar.
She submitted the Mickey Mouse Bill which passed Congress, and she was handed that bill by Disney lobbyists.
On this bill she flat out lies when she states the House rejected a bad bill (which she voted for) and the bill was improved by the Senate (who did nothing but add pork).
Just cause she seems so nice and sweet doesn't mean she isn't filthy lying scum that deserves to burn in Hell. She is, and she does, like a large number of Senators and Reps.
Weather Helm,
I don't know. I didn't know why this was posted. The only difference between the House bill they got on Monday and the one they got on Friday was the increase in FDIC/NCUA insurance limits.
I don't understand why the Senate and House are claiming victory in changing the bill. The basic TARP plan was negotiated and that's what we all heard on the SIFMA call or those who bothered to listen for 25 minutes while they explained the plan.
Gallegly is my Congressman too and I'm kind've ticked that the "no" voters didn't do more to screw the system. Eff that man... who cares if our economy is collapsing, if you are in government you should protect the government system at all costs. Everyone who voted "no" for this bill should just vote "no" for everything else and make their leaders submit.
They show how spineless they are by bending to their weak-ass leaders. Bohner!? Really, he's the minority leader? Boehner!? What a pansy. These people are cowards... I personally think the Capital Police and Secret Service agents should all quit in disgust as they are the ones who were screwed by this bill. What's the point of even pretending we have a functioning government anymore?
Personally I think when stuff like this happens the "no" voters just do it for show. If they really thought this bill was as bad as we did here on CR they would've actively fought against it and thought of all sorts of ways to thrwart it. As it was, tons of Congresspeople admit that this bill is a "crap sandwich" and still voted for it. What the represenative government?
YSLP:
I'm confident House Reps and Senators have no idea what's going on in the financial markets. Their judgment is nonexistent. It is clear hearing them debate the bill and issue the same talking points the guy on the street has that they honestly have no fracking idea what they've just done.
Current congressional members have no right to ever again complain about being manipulated by the Bush Administration. Ever.
They so obviously caved in to fear tactics and proclamations of the impending GDII if they don't act now, and the poor schlub shopowner on the street who won't be able to make payroll, so obvious that the vast majority of consituents begged them to turn the bill down.
The fact that they would trust GWB and Paulson's words, after all the other lies that have come from those guys, that a disaster years in the making must be dealt with NOW NOW NOW or else all is lost, is just incomprehensible to me.
Even more incomprehensible is that the cure for the cancer that is allegedly about to kill the country is to feed the cancer and starve the healthy tissue, not the other way around. Amazing.
Really, those congressional members and Senators that betrayed America now deserve to burn in Hell.
So the Terminator lied his ass off...
It's not as if he had to twist her arm anything.
Lies are the new coin of the realm.
I look like a young Robert Redford, and if the US government doesn't give me a billion or two, I will slit my wrists and 10 million women will die of heart break.
Ben, we don't deserve a republic.
Citi gets court order, blocking Wells-Wachovia deal
the politicians know what to do,its just if the do it,they won't get reelected next time
Debt rollover. That's what everyone is into now. They learned it from their government.
Citigroup Inc said it won a court order late on Saturday blocking Wells Fargo & Co. from buying hobbled U.S. bank Wachovia Corp until the court rules otherwise.
Judge sets hearing on Citi, Wachovia deal
| Reuters
Oh Yeah, Toads wild ride.
Meanwhile the '3 strikes and you're out' mentality turned the prison industry into the ultimate growth industry
If you'd have whacked them hard enough on the first strike, they'd not be back for the next two.
How much prison guard union money found its way back to Boxer's shorts?
We need a "3 strikes and you're out" policy for politicians.
Sorry Ben...
Fein's primary excuse for ignoring her constituents: importantly, there have now been several improvements to this bill. First, The FDIC insurance rate covering bank deposits has been increased from $100,000 to $250,000. Americans will know that their deposits are secure up to $250,000.
How many of her 85,000 opposed voters had more than $100,000 in a single bank?
I'd guess about 12.
Sorry Ben...
How much prison guard union money found its way back to Boxer's shorts?
Barbara Boxer: Campaign Finance/Money - Industries - Senator 2008 | OpenSecrets
Not as much as from lawyers and AARP at least for 08.
I think it could be do or die for C when it comes to getting their hands on Wachovia. This could lead to the ultimate destruction of all three.
The Sheila Bair disgrace sequence
1). Sheila Bair rings Jamie Dimon and suggests to him that she might confiscate the assets of Washington Mutual. She says that Jamie should prepare a bid.
2). One week later the Office of Thrift Supervision signs a memorandum of understanding with WaMu saying that WaMu does not need to raise capital or increase liquidity.
3). Sheila Bair forces WaMu to get investment bankers in who will do due diligence.
4). The investment bankers talk down WaMu for weeks in press and cause a minor run.
5). The OTS seizes WaMu without any real indication to the management that this was going to happen and sells it to her hand-picked banker (Jamie Dimon). The deal is irrevocable. In the process she puts the fear-of-government in all the intermediate holders of US Bank finance. This exacerbates the crisis.
6). The WaMu deal causes a panic at Wachovia. There was no panic at Wachovia prior to this though Wachovia stock is justifiably weak.
7). On Sheilas timetable a deal has to be done for Wachovia in three days.
8). Sheila decides that no deal can be done without government support and she offers that support. Wells Fargo has simply told her they need more time. Having done due diligence on a small bank I can assure you three days is not enough for a large bank unless the Government is going to give you large warranties. Sheila created a timetable that forced the government into a deal that was potentially bad for taxpayers.
9). A few more days and the deal turns up that doesnt cost taxpayers anything. Sheila however has staked her reputation on the prior deal and defends her prior behaviour.
I have argued that Sheila should be sacked. I think that is pretty obvious now.
Bronte Capital
Another heifer that needs the boot. The unitended consequnces from the dip shits is stagering
Johnny Lee,
Profane acts deserve, yea demand, profane responses. You could look it up, in Proverbs, I think.
Sorry Ben..
Fair Economist writes:
I can't believe Wells and Citi are fighting over Wachovia. Winner gets one of the world's largest toxic option-ARM portfolio. Plus the fight may kill Wachovia - nothing like a court fight over an attempted shutdown to inspire confidence in its depositors.
Fair Economist | Homepage | 10.05.08 - 1:24 am | #
If bankers and their regulators were smart people, we wouldn't have had the bubble in the first place. What will it take to get you and the SHAREHOLDERS to believe that these idiots are ruining the banks?
Anonymous,
Nice point, the Open Secrets site explains a lot.
Those 85,000 voters would have had to each attach a pretty sizable check to their fax, phone call, or e-mail if they wanted any influence. Otherwise, they're just urinating into the wind.
Sorry Ben...
If bankers and their regulators were smart people, we wouldn't have had the bubble in the first place.
I doubt that they went into banking to show off their brains or enrich the shareholders.
How many stories have we heard about contrite bankers giving any of their own money back?
As an automobile mechanic, when I screw up a customer's car with a faulty repair, I have to fix my screw-up for free. If these same rules applied to bankers, they'd all be working the next 20 years for free...
Sorry Ben...
Fair Economist,
I think Paulson is going to take all the Golden West crap off Wachovia/Wells hands otherwise they wouldn't do that deal.
Patrick (way back at 12:18) re no one picked up the phone and talked with Roubini &Co.:
I understood Stiglitz had some time with the Senate banking committee, but can't find the citation.
I've watched a few clips of him in discussion with MSM types. He's awfully good - kindly, jovial even, and persuasive in a way that left his journalist adversaries disarmed: pleased with themselves and at the same time far better-informed.
I have to remind myself, however, what an exceptional negotiator and adversary Secy Paulson is - someone you'd want on your side where deals are to be struck. I think it's clear enough he's Chicago school to the core. Hence the Senate version of the bill. Wonder how many Misean strokes got dabbed in and then scraped down in committee.
Odd thought. Haven't read any recent quotes from A Greenspan. The references to speaking engagements (and quotes ) were thick on the ground only a few quarters ago.
I guess Paulson is going to be buying Cali Muni bonds now.
Sue: Yes, the Wachovia option-ARM portfolio would be a good potential target for the Paulson plan. Not sure if he's going to have enough money to go around though. The unbelievably massive scope of all this is coming to light with the revelation Hypo may need 100 billion Euros before 2010. At $140 bb/bank, even Paulson's billions won't go far.
(The Paulson plan will also crash the economy, but the bankers haven't thought about that yet. And they're not going to. You can't get somebody to realize something when their livelihood depends on not realizing it.)
Funny, when the stimulus package was passed last century, it seems so long ago, Boxer's office was bragging that her getting the conforming limit raised to $729,500 would reduce loan payments for her Marin County neighbors by as much as $150,000 on a 30 year loan while the rest of the slobs in the country had to settle for a lousy one time $600 payment.
She sure didn't see the Grim Realtor arriving in Mill Valley or Tiburon as
it was 'different' there.
"Beware of the false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing,
But inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits.
Matthew 7:15
Hey Fair Economist I saw your post on another blog where you indicated the banks would be even less likely to make loans once they off loaded their impaired MBS and loans to the TARP. It had something to do with making holding Treasury bills a better option or something to that effect.
Could you elaborate? I'm not sure I understood your argument.
Didn't the Buddha have a sense of humor? J. Lee seems to have none.
The Christian god apparently continues not to like sex and defecation, tho last time I looked s/he created them and they are essential.
Massachusetts treasurer to Fed:
I can haz bailout?
http://tinyurl.com/prohibitive-rates
Who'll be the next in line?
Who'll be the next in line for heart aches?
Who'll be the next to make the same mistakes I made over you?
Sorry Ben...
Put another way, California needs to grow somewhere close to a million pounds of Cali bud to avert this budgetary crisis. Humbolt, you have your orders...
Something for mp, etc. I promised some comments yesterday and I've had a chance to work 'em out a little. Also reposted in my blog for comment.
...
So, I wanted to do a response to mps comments and posted link on the emergence of a new monetary regime but didnt want to just compose in the comments field off the cuff. This is the result of a little work in Word and some thought.
Primarily, I want to lay out my own perception here. That perception is, that we already have a global government and a global financial structure. Put another way, if we were to found a single world government under current conditions, it would look pretty much like the current international order. Likewise, the international financial system is unconsolidated for a reason -- because political and economic constraints rule against it.
Hieratic power structures are an emergent characteristic of the human race. Human ambition being a constant, the controlling factor is the availability of administrative technology, logistical issues and certain intractable realities of hieratic governance. The lack of a world government according to a more orderly pattern is because one really cant be constructed in the current context. If it could be, the dream of the UN would have been realized.
Like a lot of individuals here, I was waiting for an alternative store of worth to emerge after the demise of the dollar became apparent in late 2001 / early 2002. One has failed to make itself apparent despite many opportunities and great incentive. This speaks to me of a context of growing disorder. Resource depletion is becoming an increasingly controlling factor, and local population are becoming much more adept at identifying and contesting resource-exploitation by outsiders as modern learning spreads more evenly.
The Imperial Age was a product of the lag time in the distribution of technical skills and engineering practices from Europe to the rest of the world. As the world grows more technically even we will see the price of controlling hostile territory grow exponentially. ATGM, MANPADS and most importantly, armed drone weapon platforms are all in the easy technical capabilities of virtually every state arsenal in the world. Large-scale exploitation of conquered peoples will grow more difficult as any rival will be able to provide them with fire and forget weapons of excellent capability, and no power can hope to muster a global campaign of subjugation before its rivals needle it to death.
I think that retrospectively, the US empire will be seen as a largely transient phenomenon fueled by cheap energy and debt. Its success in stabilizing the global order from 1950-1990 will be seen as part of codependent hegemony with the Soviets. The precipitous decline of real (rather than labelled) organization in the global sphere after 1990 will be see as validation of the fact that not even American ambition alone could stabilize the globe. It took less than 2 decades for the post-Cold War political-economic order to collapse.
The lack of evident successor regimes in the monetary and political sphere are because the context of the new global order cannot support them. Increasing scarcity of industrial raw materials will choke off industrial-military alliances and rivalries. The return of distance to a major role governing world affairs as energy transport costs increase will localize politics and choke off global alliances and trade.
I call this the new classical world, or the new classical ecumene. Imagine a central sea whose edges had been bent to touch one-another, so that it had no outer shore, full of island nations great and small. All are co-extant rivals, and some may become regional powers, but none are able to vault into control of the system as a whole due to geographic and logistical constraints -- rather like the post-Alexandrian Mediterranean.
Speaking predictively, I think that emergent monetary and political regimes will have a tendency to be transient, regional and co-extant with alternative systems. I dont know that we will see a new unitary monetary or political hegemony emergent in our lifetimes. I would prepare instead for a balkanized and disorderly future marked by decreasing external activity from large players, and the increasing realization that the modern nation state and the modern state system comprised of nation-states is unsupportable outside the context of neocolonial exploitation and the uneven global technical-industrial base that neocolonialism implies.
Just sorta dashing things off, so I probably repeat myself a lot, but I think this hits the high points of my observations.
Lucky thing I'm lazy. When we got the granite counter tops, I put the old ones in the garage, always meaning to get rid of them. Got religion last night: Took a hammer, busted up those granites. Now we're real.
unit472 writes:
"Hey Fair Economist I saw your post on another blog where you indicated the banks would be even less likely to make loans once they off loaded their impaired MBS and loans to the TARP. It had something to do with making holding Treasury bills a better option or something to that effect.
Could you elaborate? I'm not sure I understood your argument."
I'm not Fair Economist, but I'll throw in my one cent (deflation).
For background, one way of looking at the bailout: The Treasury issues bills/notes to banks in exchange for mortgages or whatever garbage they have on their balance sheets. (The transactions won't be structured that way, but that is a likely outcome.)
The banks may wish to keep the Treasury paper to enhance their liquidity. Therefore, they will almost certainly not sell all of them immediately to make new loans.
But it will allow them to do so. The transaction will reduce the risk weighting of assets on the banks' balance sheets, so it creates new capacity to lend. Capital adequacy is the main constraint on lending, not bank reserves, despite what you may have read in textbooks that are overly simplistic.
Fair Economist believes (I think) that T-Bill issuance will "crowd out" private sector lending.
This is an interesting theory, however it empirically not an issue at present. Very simply, it is nearly impossible for any entity other than the Treasury to get new loans extended to it right now; even State governments are allegedly asking for cash from the Treasury as they have been (supposedly) shut out of the bond markets. (I have never operated in the Muni market, but that observation accords with everything I know about the current state of bond markets.) Therefore, there is no private sector borrowing to be "crowded out" right now.
If the interbank markets start functioning, it will then be possible to actually see what the impact on the private sector is.
Comrade Kidbuck:
If you'd have whacked them hard enough on the first strike, they'd not be back for the next two.
No offense, but, poor understanding of criminality and crime. Criminals are an emergent property of the societies that fail to normalize them. "Whacking" them will do you no good -- they are an indicator of the degree to which your social-economic policies are failing. There is always another one because they are a signal for a process. "Get tough on crime" efforts that don't focus on rehabilitation, socialization and most important fixing the underlying social issues causing the criminals, are Sisyphean labors.
If you want to argue otherwise, well, I'd like to hear the context. Justice in America is a proxy for racial dicrimination. Your society is about to go stone broke -- went stone broke years ago, really -- and the state is illegitimate in the eyes of a percentage of the populace that grows ever closer to the percentage needed to cause the Mandate of Heaven to lapse. You've sacrificed your civil rights and still the problem persists.
At what point do you tire of spending money you don't have on beating in the heads of people too stupid to know a better life so that you don't have to come to grips with the fact that the problem lies in the roots, not the fruits? "If the child is without jen, blame the father". People are products of their context -- change the context if you want to change the people.
I think you mean hierarchic not hieratic, BR.
rowen writes:
"middle class" is the new black.
rowen | 10.04.08 - 11:16 pm | #
One thing for sure--Black is not the new middle class.
France To Buy 30,000 Planned Homes To Boost Building Business
Morningstar.Com - Dow Jones News
How many homes will the US buy?
More problems to come. Financial Week
Money fund rescue smacks banks
Tally for 21 financial institutions to prop up their money funds: $5 billion. Next: a hit to earnings.
By Mark Bruno
October 5, 2008 12:01 AM ET
Washington’s $700 billion plan to rescue banks from toxic mortgages isn’t the only bailout effort that’s been brought on by the credit crisis.
Nearly two dozen financial institutions have been forced to plow an estimated $5 billion into money-market funds to protect investors from losses since the credit crunch tightened in August 2007.
The moves are aimed at keeping clients as well as restoring stability to money-market funds and other cash strategies—a must, given the massive outflows from such funds in recent weeks. But the support measures could also hit some companies’ third-quarter performance.
Already, Bank of New York Mellon, Legg Mason and Northern Trust have reported that their efforts to firm up money-market funds and cash strategies this year will weigh on their Q3 earnings.
BNY Mellon, the parent company of Dreyfus, disclosed in a filing last week it will take a $425 million charge for propping up four Dreyfus funds—in addition to five commingled funds and one securities lending fund—that held stakes in now-bankrupt Lehman Brothers. BNY Mellon officials noted that the bank still expects to be profitable for the quarter.
“It’s a substantial amount of money in some cases, but it’s clearly a better option than allowing one of your funds to break the buck,” said John Foff, senior analyst at SNL Financial, referring to the poisonous practice of allowing a money fund’s net asset value to drop below $1 a share. “It’s taking on some pain in the short term, but should ensure some longer-term stability in their businesses, and in the money-market industry.”
Investors have yanked $260 billion from money market mutual fund offerings since the credit crunch morphed into a credit crisis in the beginning of September, after pouring in some $1 trillion in institutional assets during the previous 12 months, according to data from the Investment Company Institute.
According to an estimate by money-market research firm Crane Data, 21 financial institutions have pumped more than $5 billion in capital into their money-market funds during the last 13 months—the most since 40 money-market funds were bailed out almost 15 years ago.
That’s a significant price for what has long been considered among the safest of all assets, said Crane Data founder Peter Crane. “There’s been some kryptonite out there for money-market funds in this environment,” he noted.
The latest radioactive holding for money-market funds was commercial paper issued by Lehman Brothers, which filed for bankruptcy on Sept. 15. Since then, at least five firms have elected to prop up funds with capital from their parent companies because their money-market funds held debt issued by Lehman—holdings that although they were relatively small, could have potentially caused the funds’ net asset values to drop below $1 a share.
This “breaking the buck” occurred at one fund last month: the Reserve’s Primary Fund, which saw redemption requests of $60 billion in two days after investors learned the fund had $785 billion in Lehman debt. Just last week, the firm said it would liquidate the fund and return the remaining assets to investors.
Five companies that have propped up their funds in the past few weeks—Evergreen Investments, RiverSource Investments, Columbia Management, Russell Investments and Dreyfus—each acknowledged that they had money-market funds holding Lehman debt after the company filed for bankruptcy. Combined, the five firms had at least $1.5 billion in Lehman exposure among them, according to company filings.
Not all of the companies disclosed how much they would infuse into their funds to compensate for the Lehman debt, but Mr. Crane estimates the figure at a combined $1 billion. (Last Wednesday, Wachovia, Evergreen’s parent, actually elected to buy the $494 million in Lehman debt that was spread across three Evergreen funds, which had roughly $29 billion in combined assets.)
Even firms whose money-market funds were not exposed to the recent Lehman bankruptcy are nagged by issues that required them to begin propping their funds up months ago. A number of banks and asset managers have made moves over the last year to support funds that had investments in commercial paper or other short-term debt issued by troubled structured investment vehicles (the other “kryptonite”) such as Whistlejacket Capital, White Pine Finance, Axon Financial and Cheyne Finance.
Just last week, two firms, Legg Mason and Northern Trust, each revealed that they will provide additional reserves for several of their money-market, cash or short-term funds to ensure that they maintain a $1 a share NAV. Legg Mason added a combined $630 million to three of its funds; this move, combined with some previous support provided to money-market funds earlier this year, prompted the asset manager to note that it will likely take a $318 million non-cash charge for the quarter.
Northern Trust, meanwhile, said it would add $321 million to support several of its funds, if necessary. In February, the company had originally noted that it would make $229 million available for several of its funds that held notes issued by Whistlejacket and White Pine, so the latest round of backing makes $550 million in capital available to its funds.
The move was made to build investor confidence in its offerings by “dramatically increasing the maximum amount of support” the company will make available to the funds, explained spokesman John O’Connell. He added that it also ensures that Northern’s publicly rated funds will maintain their AAA rating, a requirement for many institutional investors.
At the same time, these backup measures could translate into a pretax charge of $290 million in the third quarter, Northern Trust noted early last week.
Roger Smith, an analyst at Fox-Pitt Kelton, said restoring investor confidence in money-market funds and cash strategies may be beyond the control of investment managers. The Treasury Department’s move to begin temporarily guaranteeing the share price of money-market funds last week will help managers, “but it may not be enough to move the needle right away,” he said. “There’s still too much uncertainty and anxiety.” FW
ok, i know you guys haz financial problems that seem panicky to solve, but even if you manage that you might want to stop sucking the bailout kool aid and suck on the energy problem
The Associated Press
it ain't going away just you have other problems, john lee i'm looking at you
smekhovo writes:
I think you mean hierarchic not hieratic, BR.
Oops! That is so true! =)
If we mark to something other than market, can you trust any financial statement?
Congressman David Price (NC had this to say in response to my letter:
Thank you for contacting me about our country's financial crisis and the proposed recovery legislation. Today the House defeated this legislation, the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act, by a vote of 205 to 228, despite my support.
Like you, I do not have any interest in "bailing out" Wall Street firms and business leaders who have speculated recklessly, endangered our country's consumers and homebuyers, and resisted regulation that would protect the public interest. My concern is for Main Street - for the people depending on a sound economy and the availability of credit to buy a house or car, to run their business and meet payroll, and to save for college and retirement.
Like it or not, we are all in this together, and the entire economy is threatened as we teeter on the edge of a 1929-style meltdown. Today Wachovia Bank, a North Carolina mainstay, collapsed. But this goes much deeper than bank failures. Last week, the City of Raleigh could not find a buyer for a $300 million bond, and Wake County cancelled its planned $472 million bond issue for school construction, Wake Tech, libraries, and open space acquisition. Both have AAA bond ratings.
Although President Bush lacks the credibility to be of much help, I take the dire warnings of economic analysts very seriously, particularly in light of everything that has happened in the last few weeks. But I could not support Secretary Paulson's request for a blank check for $700 billion to purchase mortgage-backed securities and stabilize the markets.
I thus became part of the intensive discussions over the last ten days to rewrite the Treasury plan in several critical respects. The legislation which came before us today would:
o Provide strict independent oversight and accountability for all activities undertaken by the US Treasury
o Release the $700 billion in installments, with multiple reviews along the way
o Make certain that the entire $700 billion is recaptured by the Treasury and thus by the American taxpayer, by requiring that taxpayers share in any profits resulting from the government's help and providing for assessment of the financial industry for any remaining losses
o Forbid "golden parachutes" and limit other compensation for executives of participating financial institutions.
o Require the government to work with participating institutions and loan servicers to help deserving homeowners negotiate reasonable repayment terms and stay in their homes
The defeat of the bill prolongs and perhaps deepens the crisis. Coordinating with the Senate, the House will need to return within days to try again. Perhaps the economic situation will then lead some members to reconsider. Perhaps the bill can be changed in ways that attract a majority; I certainly have a list of improvements I would like to see. But considering the members who voted "no," I will want to scrutinize carefully any changes designed to attract them.
I am committed over the next few days to continue working to avert financial collapse and get the best possible deal for America's taxpayers and homeowners. I welcome and share your concern about this situation and will be glad to hear from you at any time.
Sincerely,
DAVID PRICE
Member of Congress
This is peak everything, so get ready.
One of the most needed job creations is in the Green Collar industry. If we could get people to retrofit their homes, and businesses, in a solid, industry standard way, coupled with good tax breaks, many people would get solar hot water, photovoltaic panels, or other energy efficient practices like on-demand water heaters and even electric vehicles. Also, that is keeping money recycling in this country, where it needs to happen, along with good technological products and worker skills.
In July 1999, we put up twelve 80 watt PV panels on a Zomeworks tracker with an inverter and battery bank. I save a minimum of 100 dollars a month on electricity; my bill went from $150-$200/mo. down to $45-$50/mo and the rate has climbed from 8 cents/kwh to 11 cents or more during this period. The system paid for itself a couple of years ago. My ROI is 15% a year. I use compact fluorescents and some LED lighting, too.The system is designed to be able to take down and move, too.
How many homes will the US buy?
$700,000,000,000 / $250,000 per home is 2.8 million homes. Well, not in the strict sense, but we're on the hook for that many.
The one's the US forecloses on will either be written down and owners allowed to stay, or in the case of middle class schmucks, they will likely face foreclosure and their homes will go to the needy so Barbara Boxer can purchase votes.
Criminals in America are a product, bought and sold by the Prison/Industrial complex. The United States Justice system produces criminals as product...and The Military is equivalent to the medieval monastery.
Comrade NSA,
What type of batteries are you using? How many amp hours in your system? Are you set up just to support AC or do you have any 12v set up as well? I've started some research along those lines, you are way ahead of most - also keen to understand the portability aspects.
This would be an awesome blog posting btw, I mean setting up a blog on blogspot or the like...just sayin'.
Uh, Senators are "at large", y'know. It's a recent change, 1787 or something like that. But
don't let that get in the way of your freak.
Heh. My freezer is currently and usually full of the remains of a
(locally raised, grain-fed, "We don't feed our cows, cows" says the farmer) steer.
I have this vision in say, 2010, of coming home and finding my retirement cash spread all over the
basement as the worthless junk it became and all the meat gone.
Apparently this dude isn't getting invited to the good parties and is a bit bitter about it.
Maybe not (but what is a given person's number that quell's their avarice? You don't know) - in
any case, it means that he is emotionally bound to the system that made him rich.
The senate had a choice to add Senator Bernie Sanders' amendment to the bill that required Wall St. operatives, those who benefited most from this catastrophe and who are it's architects to pay for it.
Since that amendment was not added to the bill, Senator Boxer and Senator Feinstein are out in 2010 as far as I'm concerned. By that time it should be pretty clear what a huge mistake they made.
Feinstein isn't up for reelction until 2012. No wonder she was so confident and arrogant on the senate floor when she said she got 90,000 phone calls from constituents who said don't vote for the bailout and she said she was going to anyway.
Good Job, Ruins.
Leveling needed.
What type of batteries are you using?
Trojan L-16HCs; they are the best, with the best warranty. Just keep em warm and dry, with hydrocaps
How many amp hours in your system?
420 times 8 = 3360 Ah
Are you set up just to support AC or do you have any 12v set up as well?
I have a 4000 watt, 24 volt AC inverter. I am all AC.
I've started some research along those lines, you are way ahead of most - also keen to understand the portability aspects.
I had the guy make me a sub panel where he routed the select circuits I was making solar, plus mounted the inverter on a sheet of plywood, so I can simply disconnect and unscrew the plywood to move the inverter and charge controller; same with the subpanel. My house has both grid wall sockets and solar sockets next to each other in many places. On a sunny day (today) is when we will do washing, vacuuming, electric chain saw, etc.
This would be an awesome blog posting btw, I mean setting up a blog on blogspot or the like...just sayin'.
Its time; CR is running a big train here, but this kind of posting, along with sustainable agriculture, is going to be necessary for the next several years. Time to get to it.
"The Christian god apparently continues not to like sex and defecation"
God is upper-cased. God - as Catholics know Him - favors sex within marriage, and has no bias against natural functions.
lawyerliz writes:
Good Job, Ruins.
Thanks. I hope it has some positive impact somewhere.
Is satan lower cased?
Yes, Ruins, your posts are always very edifying. Thanks.
The stock markets lost 1.2 trillion last Monday.....one day!
1 to 2 trillion has already been thrown at the problem.
How can any rational person think that .7 trillion is the magic bullet which will solve the problem?
.
This board rarely sees such unanimity--if the plan sucks and is aimed at the wrong disease--what is the motivation? Greed--at this stage I doubt that. Stupidity--Paulson is not stupid. Ideology--possible except so many here have the same ideology and come to a totally different mindset. All I can think of is fear--"holy shit, the house is burning down, should I save the tropical fish before I run out?"
Yeah, Pavel, I know. I went to Catholic grade school, high school and also Cathoic U in DC. I love mythogy, errr theology. I always got good grades in my religion classes. I know just why I am not a Catholic, or I used to, not interested in keeping up any more.
If Catholicism properly honored sex, they would not think unmarried priests were a good thing. Celebacy is supposed to be preferred. As a matter of expedience, since there are virtually no new priests in the US, and since this is a matter of discipline only, it seems that this rule should be cut off. And since so very many priests are gay. Yes, they are, and I don't see anything wrong with that as long as they are allowed to be married too.
By the way, there are those that want to be married who become Episcopal/Anglican priests as married men and then convert to Catholicism, and continue to be priests. Excellent scheme.
I like to think in terms of black holes and the dis-connection of time and space in an event. We are involved an event that will re-shape the world -- obviously the rules are in the process of being re-shaped. Synthetic debt obligations and future value van be thought of being somewhat like an event which curves spacetime back on itself, thus we are experiencing the future impact of obligations in the form of current debts and a black hole-shortage of cash!
♥®