Nemo!

oooo!!! a countdown!

somebody call Olberman.

Looks like the Germans are also in. How about the USA. Will Paul let MS go under? Is he holding out for a better price?

The London stock market might be closed.

What does it mean?

Will British gov. close the stock market on Monday?

I'm embarased to admit I'll probably be up to read about it. Probably won't be able to sleep after the Conjure report anyway.

keep your eyes on the emerald isle

MESSAGE FROM THE QUEEN - Love it! It seems long, but it is humourous !!! To the citizens of the United States of Americafrom Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.In light of your failure in recent years to nominate competentcandidates for President of the USA and thus to governyourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of yourindependence, effective immediately. (Youshould look up 'revocation' in the Oxford English Dictionary.) Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchicalduties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Kansas,which she does not fancy). Your new Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, will appoint a Governor forAmerica without the need for further elections.Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire may becirculated next year to determine whether any of you noticed. To aidin the transition to a British Crown dependency, the following rulesare introduced with immediate effect: 1. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'colour,''favour,' 'labour' and'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' withoutskipping half the letters, and the suffix '-ize' will bereplaced by the suffix '-ise.' Generally, you will be expected toraise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').2. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noisessuch as ''like' and 'youknow' is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Thereis no such thing as U.S. English. We will let Microsoft know on yourbehalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take intoaccount the reinstatedletter 'u'' and the elimination of '-ize.'3. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.4. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns,lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers andtherapists shows that you're not quite ready to be independent. Gunsshould only be used for shooting grouse. If you can't sort things outwithout suing someone or speaking to a therapist,then you're not readytoshoot grouse.5. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anythingmore dangerous than a vegetable peeler. Although a permit will berequired if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.6. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you willstart driving on the left side with immediate effect.At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and withoutthe benefit of conversion tables. Both roundabouts and metricationwill help you understand the British sense of humour.7. The former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have beencalling gasoline) of roughly $10/US gallon. Get used to it.8. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call Frenchfries are not real chips, and those things you insist on callingpotato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut,fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.9. The cold, tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is notactually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper BritishBitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known andaccepted provenance will be referred to as Lager. South African beeris also acceptable, as they are pound for pound the greatest sportingnation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are alsopart of the British Commonwealth - see what it did for them. Americanbrands will be referred to as Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that allcan be sold without risk of further confusion.10. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors asgood guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors toplay English characters. Watching Andie Macdowell attempt Englishdialogue in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin tohaving one's ears removed with a cheese grater.11. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kindof proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enoughwill, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similaritiesto American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest everytwenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch ofnancies).12. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable tohost an event called the World Series for a game which is not playedoutside of America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware there is a worldbeyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learncricket, and we will let you face the South Africans first to take thesting outof their deliveries.13. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.14. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty'sGovernment will be with you shortly to ensurethe acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).15. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 p.m. with proper cups, withsaucers, and never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) andcakes; plus strawberries (with cream) when in season. God Save the Queen! PS: Only share this with friends who have a good sense of humour (NOT humor)!

Bush is at the meeting, unannounced, as we speak. The pressure is ratcheting up.

MLM, luckily I'm on the west coast, so this should be announced at 11 PM Sunday night our time - of course I'll be up for another hour or two chatting in the comments!

Best to all.

there it is.

wont be a planned bank holiday, its to be pre-scheduled Market holidays...

horray!!!

the markets closed, now all you people that work can really get pissed.

CR - I was going to suggest you sleep through it before I calculated the time diff. As you pointed out a few days ago, we really are living through extraordinary times.

...that could force the departure of some of their top executives

How glorious would it be if 7am arrived and we saw these individuals being led away in handcuffs? /sigh

The Rolaids convo won't make to to London before the announcement, so closing the market will avoid lots of gas.

Why do we get consistently outclassed by our UK allies?

Is it that the government governs instead of financial folks governing?

Think they can refurbish the Tower by Monday morning?

CR,

LOL for the doomclock!

I have been up far too early far too many times this week, being in Pacific Standard Time.

as to the market shutdown:

I read this to mean that at any point when the deflation machine is running to hot, just shut the market down, startup the frozen money printing machines, inject moneys into banks balance sheets, resume market...

...that could force the departure of some of their top executives

Departure to the big house...and I don't mean the 30,000 sq ft beach bungalow either

CR: what are your thoughts, if any, about Tuesday in the US markets? Or even Monday should there be a trading halt due to 10% + drop in Dow?

If they close the markets it's because their are objectionable features to the plan and they want time to spin it. If that doesn't work then they can try to modify it before reopening the markets I'd guess.

And the memorandum will be published prior to the open too.

Is this an expedient plan or a desperate expedient?

CR what time is the leak going to be posted?

REPOSTED FROM LAST THREAD:
popeye writes:
nullpointer writes:
the thing thats keeping me from jumping in is the fact i dont think we are at THE bottom.

... ahhh, yes, the perfect fit - the glass slipper - how many tried it on ? How many were near perfect ?

Nullpointer - my very favorite joke:

3 Anthropologists were exploring the deepest, hardest to reach, most isolated parts of the Amazon. All in search of the Foo bird.

At their last base camp of the season, the bird was finally spotted as it swooped down and shat upon the lead anthropologist. Everyone was amazed to have actually seen the bird; except for the lead anthropologist who could not stand the stench; rushed to the nearby stream and washed himself off. He took no more than two steps before he fell over dead.

The remaining anthropologists decided the expedition had accomplished it's goal and should head back. Several days into their return journey, the more experienced anthropologist sighted he Foo bird again. With excitement, he took numerous photographs; noting each entry in his journal. That is, until, he too was shat upon.

Again, it was too much to bear, and he ran to the closest source of water to cleanse himself. Yet again, two steps later, he dropped dead.

With great care, the sole remaining anthropologist made it back to civilization. With deference to his fallen comrades, he presented the textual and photographical evidence that the Foo bird actually exists.

As he did so, a shadow passed over him. The Foo bird had reappeared before all in attendance; and shortly thereafter shat upon the last surviving anthropologist.

Fortunately, he was a bachelor - and he lived out his remaining life without ever washing. On his death bed, his biographer asked why he had never bathed again. To which the sole remaining anthropologist answered, "When the Foo chits, wear it."

There is an answer in there somewhere, I'm just trying to put my finger on it.

2009 Phrase of the Year:

Unintended Consequences.

They have no idea what they are doing and they have no idea where it is going to take us.

must go out to lay in supplies for the state of the Conjure report.

parting question:

does anyone have insight into the motivation behind the order that Fannie and Freddie must buy $40B of bad subrpime and Alt A each month?

The only things I can think of are:

1) It is a plan to have your TARP and eat it, too . . . meaning F & F buy up the MBS while the $700B allocated for the TARP gets used in direct recapitalization. But they do the latter without the former, so this partly begs the question.

2) Is it a plan to load F & F with enormous amounts of toxic MBS so that peole can say by sleight of hand that they were the source of the problem, conveneintly forgetting they were ordered to acquire the bad debt now?

3) The third thing I can think of is almost unthinkable, and that is there could be a good reason to have F & F eat up the bad MBS. Is it possible that this crew came up with a good idea? Seems the least likely possibility.

These people coming up with these plans are not that smart. Yeah, they graduated from Ivy League schools but if it wasn't for mommy and daddy they wouldn't have been admitted to a Cal State school.

Iceberg dead ahead.

Aw, Popeye. That's as bad as the one that ends, "Pardon me, Roy. Is that the cat that ate your new shoes?"

(grin)

joe shmoe - No need to search too deeply. I pick door number 1.

popeye-

understood.

fwiw, i am not trying to time the bottom, but i would prefer to buy on the way up rather than the way down.

too volatile right now, i would like to see some basing.

ullpointer writes:
popeye-

understood.

fwiw, i am not trying to time the bottom, but i would prefer to buy on the way up rather than the way down.

too volatile right now, i would like to see some basing.

Nullpointer,
I FULLY respect the wisdom in your position.

Two words, popeye...

"uncharted"

"territory"

That's your adrenalin thrill for the week. No, no need to thank me, you are too kind.

before I go, could let this one slip by:

JimPortlandOR writes:
"Why do we get consistently outclassed by our UK allies?"

Because they have maintained a long run of leaders who actually speak a recognizable language? Because the son of a PM hasn't become PM since the 18th century? Because they regularly make their rulers answer questions, hard questions?

Or maybe its not because they're so great, but because we've become . . .

joe shmoe | 10.11.08 - 7:18 pm

I was thinking #2 when I read about it this morning. With the Limbaugh/Hannity/(insert right wing vicodin addicted radio host here) machine blaming them last week already, this will make it even easier. Although if you look at the facts, they don't have a leg to stand on. F & F were not purchasing no doc loans for securitization.

Think they can refurbish the Tower by Monday morning?

It was in pretty good shape when I was there in 2004. Still had some chopping blocks in the courtyard and axes inside. Other fun-looking metal object, too. Convenient to the LSE. The crooks can stop at St. Paul's on the way. Not that it would do them any good.

Not to be nit-picky, but anthropologists would not be searching for a bird. Those would be biologists.

The only anthropologists seeking wildlife are primatologists. Cultural anthropologists seek living people, archaeologists deal with the dead, and forensic anthropologists deal with the recently dead.

Anthro does mean man afterall.

FACT: Bush goes down as THE worst President in History.

FACT: Paulson goes down as the wealthiest and most successful con artist in History.

FACT: Bernanke ties Greenspan for most clueless FED chairman. Ever.

FACT: Bill Gross and Christopher Cox become inmates at the same penal institution for conspiracy to commit fraud and insider trading.

oooh, ooh, they're getting the atomic grav sled ready to attack Godzilla.

We have a launch countdown and everything!

"does anyone have insight into the motivation behind the order that Fannie and Freddie must buy $40B of bad subrpime and Alt A each month?"

The TARP was visible and unpopular and not big enough.

This method is invisible, unaccountable, and as large as they like.

If Treasury sells bonds to fund the losses (I mean purchases), then we have more downward pressure on general equities.

This pressure, in its most impulsive form in the UK, is the reason to close the markets there. Unless and until monetized, that money has to come FROM somewhere.

"Why do we get consistently outclassed by our UK allies?"

I think it's b/c the Prime Minister has to face parliament directly, and if you are a dumba$$, you will last about 2 weeks before another election due to lack of confidence.

If the U.S. injects capital equal to current market capitalizationn of the banks, thus owning 50% of the recapitalized institution it could do so for C, MS, GS, MI,BBT, USB, PNC FITB, STI, BAC, KEY, NCC, JPM, ZION and WFC, and not even get to $500 B.

Boooosh blinked (again):

Oct. 11 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. removed North Korea from its list of state sponsors of terrorism, granting the communist state a long-sought prize in exchange for allowing wider scrutiny of its nuclear-weapons program.

North Korea agreed inspectors could examine facilities it has revealed as well as other locations suspected of being used for any part of its nuclear program. It also agreed to immediately resume disabling its Yongbyon reactor, a source of weapons-grade plutonium, U.S. envoy Sung Kim told reporters in Washington today.

The agreement breaks a two-month deadlock in six-nation talks aimed at ultimately ridding North Korea of atomic weapons and its ability to export nuclear technology. The U.S. had refused to remove North Korea from the list of state sponsors of terrorism until the government in Pyongyang agreed to a credible nuclear-inspection plan.

[bloomberg.com]

Well, now GW can focus like a laser on G20. That will solve things.

The world is becoming more socialist.

Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Karl Marx is smiling but means to end is not what he envisioned at least yet Wink

Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution, it being the transitional stage between capitalism and communism

Volker the Viking writes:
CR: what are your thoughts, if any, about Tuesday in the US markets? Or even Monday should there be a trading halt due to 10% + drop in Dow?

And people thought I was kidding last Saturday.

My opinion is that there will be talk of a market "pause" which will do all the damage. Then there won't be a market pause doing even more damage.

Our fearless leaders are zero for everything in these circumstances. It is at best random chance they get something right.

As noted a few weeks ago; there cannot be a "bank holiday." World finances are 24x7x365 and you cannot stop it without breaking it worse. Are you going to penalize banks that process Sunday transactions because the banks are closed on Tuesday after the 3 day weekend? There's gonna be some depositor Friday at 5:01 PM who defaults because the 5 day backlog doesn't approve his payment until Wednesday.

No, no more bank holidays.

Aw, Feckless. That's as bad as the one that ends, "People who live in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones."

Posted on last thread too:

Regarding the CR bookshelf from the last thread, here's one I read this summer. Good for us old slow guys who hope to become investors one day, not traders:

Anatomy of the Bear, by Napier

Amazon.com: Anatomy of the Bear: Lessons from Wall Street's Four Great Bottoms (9781905641574): Russell Napier: Books

Serious question - with Rove gone from the White House, who puts the words in Bush's mouth? Who's the puppet master?

The London stock market might be closed.

What does it mean?

Will British gov. close the stock market on Monday?

Not a bit of it. England has just adopted Columbus Day.

Feckless: Rove is phoneing it in (alternating with McCain hdqs on calls)

Joe Schmoe,
I'll take door #2

Concerted effort under way by the GOP to put all the blame on F&F, even though they were far from the worst actors in this whole mess, at most 5% of the problem. However, they are the only intitutions that can really be creadibly tied to the Dems.

Dirk: you got that correct 100%. The GOP also hated any institution that wasn't completely free market, especially one with a charter to support lower income families.

Jim, McCain's not a Bush insider, never was. I can believe it's still Rove; I'm just asking for confirmation.

CSC, what was your party affiliation at 11 years old?

Seriously, that is twisted. I'm picturing some evil old dude smiling while he takes an 11 year old's allowance money.

Currently Smoking Cannabis writes:
Not to be nit-picky, but anthropologists would not be searching for a bird. Those would be biologists.

Not to be nit-picky, but those would actually be ornithologists.

Feckless: didn't mean to imply that McCain was on GWs team (but he voted that way, overwhelmingly). But Rove is playing for both teams, but under the covers. McCain's campaign team are all Rove's acolytes.

Phil Gramm ( McCain's #1 economic advisor ) orchestrated the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999 which “destroyed the Depression-era barrier to the merger of stockbrokers, banks and insurance companies.” He also pushed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act in 2000, which made legal “the mortgage swaps distancing the originator of the loan from the ultimate collector.”

McCain/Palin or Unstable/Unable is shaping up to be the greatest political flame-out in history.

Is ornithology not contained with biology? Oh yeah it is.

I thought y'all might be interested that you've gotten me to call my elderly parents to tell them to go get a few hundred dollars cash tomorrow. I feel paranoid.

So Rove left the White House to work on the line of succession. But to whom does Rove answer? Is there a master puppetmaster?

You know km4, once in a while I unkill you just to make sure nothing has changed. But it never has.

Is ornithology not contained with biology

contained like the subprime mortgage crisis contained?

MLM very profound !

Y.T.: I was a member of Reagan's Republican Presidential Task Force.

sovereign credit default swaps

Okay, mp. That got my attention.

contained like the subprime mortgage crisis contained?Yes sir, exactly the usage of the word I intended.

from the guardian link posted by mp:

'It now costs more to insure US government debt against default than McDonald's, suggesting the market thinks that Uncle Sam a worse credit risk than a burger-flipping chain'

Ouch.

puppet master?: Grover Norquist: 'Field Marshal' of the Bush Plan

It's early April, tax time, and Grover Norquist is moving into high gear. The President's $1.6 trillion tax cut package is working its way through Congress, and Norquist--president of Americans for Tax Reform and arguably Washington's leading right-wing strategist--is rushing from meetings on Capitol Hill to strategy sessions with antitax activists. One minute he's putting the finishing touches on planned demonstrations in Washington and all fifty state capitals on tax-return filing day; the next he is juggling appearances on right-wing talk-radio shows and stints on MSNBC and Fox. And, as he has for nearly eight years, Norquist is coordinating the agenda for his signature event, the regular "Wednesday meeting" that draws more than a hundred representatives of conservative groups to a standing-room-only conference room at his organization's L Street offices. (April 26, 2001)

Y.T.: I was a member of Reagan's Republican Presidential Task Force.
dam

Robdawg:

My opinion is that there will be talk of a market "pause" which will do all the damage. Then there won't be a market pause doing even more damage.

I dunno, I think they may actually close it down at some point soon, and then find themselves totally unable to relaunch it. That seems about right for the way they undertake dramatic acts and then try to rationalize the policy later.

However, I am, as the joke email about British officer evaluations says, willing to follow these people anywhere just to see what they'll do next. Nothing would surprise me.

Grover Norquist: 'Field Marshal' of the Bush Plan

and, did he sleep with Fund?

Ask the Rude One.

FACT: Bernanke ties Greenspan for most clueless FED chairman. Ever.

Greenspan knew what he was doing. Fiscal conservative during the Clinton administration, tax-cut cheerleader during the Bush administrations.

I was a member of Reagan's Republican Presidential Task Force

damn is right, that's why he needs to smoke so much weed these days.

And Bubbles will never return his pension!

Damn this economic anxiety. I just ate a pint of Ben & Jerry's. Good thing we can look forward to food shortages - I'm gonna need it.

Oh yeah ???

Well, when you see the final answer that comes outta this financial situation ..... it will likely stink so much that you will feel an impulse to wash it off. But if the shoe fits, wear it.

mp:

re: scds

It appears overwhelming firepower is being brought to bear this week. Will be interesting monitoring treasuries.

Popeye,

The difference between your anthropologists and us is that we will have no choice in the matter of washing it off or not.

What happened to that fool Sebastian?

FACT: Paulson goes down as the wealthiest and most successful con artist in History

John Law brought down France but if Paulson succeeds in crashing the entire world, I'll agree.

FACT: Bernanke ties Greenspan for most clueless FED chairman. Ever.

Bernanke wins hands-down simply by accepting the job after Greenspan's machinations.

mp -

"Ooh, Ahh, that's how it always starts. But then there's running and screaming."

YouTube -

Actually that is my favorite joke. It's an accident that it fits so well.

What happened to that fool Sebastian?

He's in cryosleep, circling the earth in a Bun Boy rocket scheduled to return in 30 years.

Yeah, baby.

CR, thanks for the time and date clock link. I know it is in British Summer Time (BST=UTC+1hr), but it seems weird that it shows time just after midnight as 12:xx:xx AM instead of 00:xx:xx AM

I guess it is a non-military version of time notation. I browsed the clock sites and found the US/NATO conventions and thought they were pretty nifty:

Z Zulu Time Zone\t\tUTC
Y\tYankee Time Zone\tUTC - 12 hours
X\tX-ray Time Zone\t\tUTC - 11 hours
W\tWhiskey Time Zone\tUTC - 10 hours
V\tVictor Time Zone\tUTC - 9 hours
U\tUniform Time Zone\tUTC - 8 hours
T\tTango Time Zone\tUTC - 7 hours
S\tSierra Time Zone\tUTC - 6 hours
R\tRomeo Time Zone\tUTC - 5 hours
Q\tQuebec Time Zone\tUTC - 4 hours
P\tPapa Time Zone\t\tUTC - 3 hours
O\tOscar Time Zone\tUTC - 2 hours
N\tNovember Time Zone\tUTC - 1 hour
A\tAlpha Time Zone\tUTC + 1 hour
B\tBravo Time Zone\tUTC + 2 hours
C\tCharlie Time Zone\tUTC + 3 hours
D\tDelta Time Zone\t\tUTC + 4 hours
E\tEcho Time Zone\t\tUTC + 5 hours
F\tFoxtrot Time Zone\tUTC + 6 hours
G\tGolf Time Zone\t\tUTC + 7 hours
H\tHotel Time Zone\t\tUTC + 8 hours
I\tIndia Time Zone\t\tUTC + 9 hours
K\tKilo Time Zone\t\tUTC + 10 hours
L\tLima Time Zone\t\tUTC + 11 hours
M\tMike Time Zone\t\tUTC + 12 hours

Uh oh, it looks like Whiskey time would be tomorrow evening at 8pm on the West Coast.

FWIW, ever since this whole fiasco broke, CNN's Lou Dobbs has been severely critical of the whole Paulson plan/subsequent bailout terms.

Nightly, he has had guest panels of economists on, ripping it apart. (I dunno if these guys are "respected" economists or not---)

At any rate, all 3 of tonight's econ guys just said they expect the US market to close, anywhere from 1 to 3 days, this week.

CSC, don't think I was criticizing you either about sending money at 11 years old.

My take is that there is so much brainwashing and dishonesty in our society that it is almost impossible not to be had at some point growing up. Be it religion, politics, etc. Eventually, the intelligent and honest figure out that almost everything in our culture is a con game.

Just found it interesting given your persona. LMAO, especially since it was Reagan that seduced you. (:

popeye writes:
Oh yeah ???

Well, when you see the final answer that comes outta this financial situation ..... it will likely stink so much that you will feel an impulse to wash it off. But if the shoe fits, wear it.
popeye | 10.11.08 - 7:52 pm | #
........

Y.T. writes:
Popeye,

The difference between your anthropologists and us is that we will have no choice in the matter of washing it off or not.
Y.T. | 10.11.08 - 7:54 pm

Y.T.,
Is it not nice when folks agree ?

Y.T.: Not at all. I'v been asked that a thousand times. Teachers thought it very strange that the discipline problem kept up to speed on political events.

It was only later that I realized I was full of shit. That's when I found the 'truth' on the left.

When I again realized I was just as full of shit, my studies became much more interesting. Knowing that I did not know, and being fine with that, was the most liberating experience of my life. Now I watch as an observer, but I don't really have a team. I think that's much healthier and probably less obscured by false certainty than before.

tyrasun (?)-- LOL & God save the Queen--

(am so looking forward to the promised variety in "crisps" when Mum takes over watching us kids again- it always just delighted me that in the UK, the endless variety of flavours of crisps took up a whole aisle in the stores-- am missing the cheese and onion kind)

(& also all those black currant flavoured thingies.)

"It now costs more to insure US government debt against default than McDonald's, suggesting the market thinks that Uncle Sam a worse credit risk than a burger-flipping chain."

I would say this suggests we should buy stock in McDonalds. A purveyor of cheap food in a long depression should do well. But, following that logic and the practices developed by those who fell through the US's threadbare safety net during the last decades of prosperity, I think catfood might be a better investment.

Catfood tastes horrible. And I think it has something in it that is not good for people, I forget what.

Now Alpo, on the other hand. . .

I'm not sure if the spike in Sovereign CDS is all that significant, certainly in the case of the USA. I mean, if the USA defaults, would any other counterparty be left standing?

Also, remember that these CDS are also used to protect against technical defaults, e.g. late payment.

This stuff was discussed on FT Alphaville some time ago and that seemed to be the consensus.

Kevin A. Hassett,co author of "Dow 36,000" is a/the McCain Senior Ecpnomic Adviser.

Economic of course,but maybe ecpnomic works as well!

Former Goldwater Young Republican in the early years. Gone indie now, but working for the other side.

I'd like to see Grover Norquist's head on a pike. He gives me the creeps.

I'm opposed to thugs on either side.

Been phone canvassing the past week. I live in fundie land (that probably pushed me over the edge). Indies gettin' off the fence & moving to the left.

Formerly pit bull

I think all the government bailouts are really co-opting personel in an effort to work-out the mess the banks and financials created. How else are governments going to do it? You want the government to start a new agency?

"Q Quebec Time Zone UTC - 4 hours"

Interestingly, Quebec is not in the 'Quebec time zone' (Quebec is on EST)

Essay: "I'm the proud owner of Karl Rove’s father’s solid gold cock ring."

Posted by Xeni Jardin,
August 18, 2007 7:19 PM

Shannon Larratt, founder of the body modification online publication BMEzine, pointed us a few days ago to a first-person essay that a person named Yard[D]og was writing, regarding the adoptive father of Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove (shown in the image at left). Yard[D]og claims to have been a close personal friend of the now-deceased elder Rove.

About the essay's contents, Mr. Larratt said:

"Karl Rove's father was not only gay, but a part of the early body piercing scene and a regular at 70s piercing parties... There are pictures of him on BME."

Here is part of that essay. BMEzine just published it in entirety with detailed photos said to depict the elder Mr. Rove's numerous genital piercings.

I have no way of immediately verifying the statements in this essay, or the source of the photos. I am pursuing that now, have received responses which so far indicate that this material is valid, and I will update soon. I do know that Mr. Larratt is a friend of the author (a known participant in the body modification community), that he is personally familiar with the story, and is not given to publishing material he believes to be false. With that disclaimer out of the way, here's an excerpt:


Louie loved his piercings, they made him smile. People who are pierced will understand.

So there on the floor in his library, amid teaching videos on piercings and piles of [Piercing Fans International Quarterly], I listened to one man’s account of his travels through the Los Angeles piercing community in the 70’s and 80’s — the “piercing parties” with folks getting pierced on coffee tables in private homes, nurses that helped, and a guy named Jim. I knew about Jim. I had both my nipples pierced at The Gauntlet.

Louie also knew about play piercing; I wanted to learn and so he taught me. And so between splashing in the pool, brunches, visiting his volunteer list of AIDS patients, eating at all numbers of restaurants, visiting friends who lived around the area, birding at the Salton Sea and eating TV dinners, we explored needles and the effect they have on you.

During the day I was told the names of piercings ... I hated the words but I wanted to know about each kind. To this day I’ve never gotten a dydoe because Louie told me it was a hard heal. I never copied Louie’s piercings but I never got them out of my mind. Some years after I last saw him, I found another friend, a professional piercer name Sque3z who took me on another journey recounted here on BME. Louie would be proud.

Louie and I exchanged gifts over the years. He really liked those stainless ball weights and I like gold jewelry ... so I have a 14 karat gold cock ring that once belonged to Louie, and he had a bunch of ball weights that belonged to me.

So who cares about one man’s journey into piercing? For me it is not about a gossipy story, though some people will take it that way. It is not about telling secrets or things left best unsaid; it is about a little piece of history. Perhaps in telling this story someone else will be able to tell a better one another day.

The “Jim” in this story is the Jim Ward who started the piercing industry. Louie is Louis Claude Rove whose adopted son’s first name is Karl. Louie died quietly in Palm Springs as his very secular, not-believing son ran President Bush’s campaign for President of the United States that energized the Christian evangelical base around the wedge issue of gay marriage...

As I watched the news this week, I saw a Karl Rove standing beside the President, his voice crocking, talking about his love for Bush and his country but over that “noise,” I heard the memory of Joe Koons whispering in my ear.

“You do know who his son is?”

... Oh My God!

And now I wondered if that son ever cried for the man who raised him and watched him grow up? I’d be curious as to how Karl Rove would ever explain his pierced, gay father? He never told the people in Louis’ phone book that he had died, nor invited them to a service if there was one. No one even knows where he is buried.

As for me? Well, I am the proud owner of Karl Rove’s father’s pure, solid gold cock ring! I’ve put it away with a few memories and pictures of his father. And in my garden grows a nasty, prickly little cactus from Louie’s backyard ... alive and well.


Link to full text. NSFW advisory: Contains links to photographs of pierced genitals said to those of Karl Rove's father, with a "modesty mosaic" imposed over the thumbnail images at that main link.

FWIW, Wikipedia has this to say about Louis Claude Rove Jr.:

Rove was born the second of three children in Denver, Colorado, and later raised in Sparks, Nevada. His biological father abandoned the family early on and his mother remarried. His new adoptive father, Louis Claude Rove Jr., was a mineral geologist, and his mother, Reba Wood, was a gift shop manager. His older brother is Eric P. Rove, and his younger sister is Reba A. Rove-Hammond. His adoptive father is of Norwegian descent.

Reader comment: muckraker says,

While the details about Louie Rove's reported piercing hobby are new to me, his sexual identity was also mentioned in a book called The Architect, published in 2006. Regarding the essay author's question about the relationship between Karl and his dad, there's this part:

Karl Rove frequently visited his father in the 1980s. Joseph Koons said he didn't sense "any great tension" between Karl and his father. Rove keeps a photograph of his father on his White House desk and has remarked to reporters that his father "lived life exactly the way he wanted to live it."

They practically announced their true intentions. Check out the Project for the New American Century website Welcome to the Project for the New American Century - Bill Krystal, Paul Wolfowitz and the boys subtle outline for a strategic play for resources worldwide through militaristic corporatism. Democracy means dealing with congress and dissent - the kinds of things that make an "empire" lethargic and ineffective. Are These the Forging Fires of the NWO We Feel? « Your Mortgage or Your Life…

Anybody looked at the price of sovereign CDS lately. Specifically for, say, G7 debt?

So apparently Bush is the first MBA president in history. Any one know if that is true?

lawyerliz writes:
Catfood tastes horrible. And I think it has something in it that is not good for people, I forget what.

Now Alpo, on the other hand...


I used to fish in Big Lake, south of Lake Charles, Louisiana. There is cat food plant there that processes menhaden. If the wind is right you can smell the stench miles away from the plant.

Trappers around that area, I've heard, hunt nutria (a large rat-like rodent) for their pelts and sell the rest of the carcass to an wet dog food plant.

Fishing in the area, though, is really teriffic.

Login or register to post comments