The IMF has more than $200 billion of loanable funds and can draw on additional resources through two standing borrowing arrangements with groups of IMF member countries.

IMF Survey: IMF Set to Lend $16.5 Billion to Ukraine

sorry, those are 2 separate things
Kuwait supports a regional bank and Saudi Arabia provides up to $2.7bn to needy citizens

Suggests that Saudi Arabia is preparing to stick with existing exchange rate status quo, by protecting the needy from further expected inflatio

Where's the end of the line for me to get into?

I even know what IMF means....

This looks like the next shoe to drop on the global financial system.
Unit472

Shoes are us. We got more shoes than Imelda Marcos.

This looks like the next shoe to drop on the global financial system.

That's why the G20 on 11/15 is so important. Question is: will Bush be there as the sitting president, or will he hand the reins to the winner?

What happened to the baseball metaphors? Everybody asks which inning we're in and the freaking National Anthem hasn't played yet.

Volker the Viking writes:
What happened to the baseball metaphors? Everybody asks which inning we're in and the freaking National Anthem hasn't played yet.

Oh... The Anthem's been played a while ago. The issue is that the visitors are going to bat around during the 5th and everyone knows it.

I assume people have seen Mish's article about the funds extracted from Australian insurance companies due to the unintended consequences of deposit insurance... Yep. Not at the bottom.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

$16B. Baaahh. Wouldn't even register a headline for draws on TARP V1.0.

That's why the G20 on 11/15 is so important. Question is: will Bush be there as the sitting president, or will he hand the reins to the winner?
Basel Too | 10.26.08 - 2:48 pm | #

I heard he would invite the winner assuming there is one by then.

Sorry guys..

The IMF is irrelevant.. They are pretending that they are not the walking dead. Nice try.. but the current economic crisis cannot he fixed by bankrupt losers. The key to economic growth now is creating jobs and increasing consumption in all countries, even the so called 'poor' countries. Of that does not happen soon, the whole system will fall apart so badly that putting it together may take over a generation.. at least.

Alloy for allay and this toolth for that soolth. Lick it and like it. A barter, a parter. And plenty good enough, neighbour Norreys, every bit and grain.

I'll bet my stimulus check on it...,
Sports Guy LaFleur

And I'll bet my idea of a pony on it.

Torquemada - awesome

The key to economic growth and stability is increased consumption. Now I know that some of you have issues with people who do not look like you having a good lifestyle. Many like to believe in some neo-malthusian fantasy. Some more believe that we know "all there is to know" and " we can predict the future". Then again hubris is not restricted to wallstreet types.

The sad reality is that humans (especially "experts") are very bad at predicting the future. Our most accurate predictions have a horizon of 5 (general) maybe 10 years (for specific areas). The history of mankind (not just the west) is littered with unanticipated deviationa from the course of events. One of the few common threads in human history is that every group that thought they had control and ultimate knowledge lost because of hubris induced comlpacency.

A lot of "peak this" and "peak that" is driven by people who think that others don't deserve it and "we know best". Such thinking on limits is particularly seductive to clever monkeys who have to maintain their relevance in heirarchy. then there is the second issue- that clever monkeys spend too much time trying to win the game, rather than create a better game.

But it always end the same way for all clever monkeys.. It has been since the begining of human history..

Sorry dryfly - I didn't read your postings in the last thread before I wrote - don't want to beat a dead horse here. Of all the NE states, NH would have been probably the most likely to vote McCain, altho the influx of Mass. people has I believed changed a lot here politically.

Anyway, this seems to be a pretty good running count of where things stand:

Electoral-vote.com: Election news 

And now I won't pollute this thread with the election anymore.

Won't it be nice when the Franken/Coleman race is over? - Sports Guy LaFleur

Amen. - dryfly

Yeah right. If Franken loses, excuse me, has the election stolen from him we'll never hear the end of it. And if Franken wins then we'll never hear the end of him either.

Anyway, this seems to be a pretty good running count of where things stand:

And now I won't pollute this thread with the election anymore.
Outsider | 10.26.08 - 3:24 pm | #

If you aren't advocating - and I'm not either - it's not 'pollution'. Its analyzing the horse race.

Go to the site and use their polling data state by state - you can see the state by state numbs just by running the cursor over each state... add in a 'Bradley Effect' fudge factor & revisit your assumptions. I'm going w/ +/- 5% for rural states and less for large urban ones (say +/- 3%).

If that happens almost all the 'Leans Obama' and 'Toss Ups' end up as McC states. The electoral outcome is very different then.

That's a 'Big IF' but I think it will happen.

Anyone have a guess what Hedge funds the treasury will inject capital into?

As another long term MN TC resident, from what I know of Coleman's history (from when he was mayor of St.Paul) that comment would fit Coleman's likely responses also.
--Andrew

Yeah but Coleman doesn't have a pliant media conduit hanging on his every clever insult. He wouldn't be afforded a stage from where to launch his invectives.

It's probably healthier than what we are eating now.

But, yuck.

I just squeezed the first tangerine juice of the season. Super yum. So I will delicious citrus along with the black bread & cabbage.

By the way, the great wave claims grain prices in US revolutionary times was highly correlated with grain prices everywhere, which seems very strange to me given the distances, etc. If so, everything was always connected.

Dryfly, since I also posted this site above, I'll opine.

The Bradley effect may be overrated. There are many anecdotal stories accompanying the polling narrative. The electorate is aroused, angry and this is a natural progression from the fear they sense. Many in places one would otherwise doubt, will pull the lever for the one they think will get something, anything done. The electoral vote may well be a landslide. Of course, there's yet eight days and a wake up to go.

Also, the Obama ground game is one that has the old line of each party awestruck. A well organized and growing phalanx of workers leaning forward into the trenches, phoning, knocking, getting the early vote out and to the polls. much of the action is happening out of range of the MSM radar.

Meanwhile, Walnuts is still yammering about terrorists, inexperience and socialism. Go visit one of the R's state offices. The phone banks are unmanned, the access to volunteers is restricted (if any are even around) and the party line is repeated.

Nope, this will be an electoral landslide surpassed few times in presidential election history.

Yeah but Coleman doesn't have a pliant media conduit hanging on his every clever insult. He wouldn't be afforded a stage from where to launch his invectives.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 10.26.08 - 3:38 pm | #

Rob - you don't live here, we do, it isn't working for 'Al'. He might win but I think he is swimming against the current.

He's getting more media attention out YOUR way from Tinsel Town media then our folks give him. Now if Al had been involved in a hockey franchise... or won a national hockey title playing for the gophers... then they'd give him some slack out here. Who cares about SNL anyway - only turn to it after the hockey game is over. Priorities.

Anonymous | 10.26.08 - 3:46 pm - that was me

NC Jim - You're another state with an influx of "ferners" the past several years. Changes voting patterns, like you said.

If it was just some poor shlub was got in over his or her head by lying about income to buy an overpriced tool shed with running water, the Feds would cut them a deal: "plead guilty to a felony, but no jail time".

A couple of weeks ago on here, I tried to explain (but to no avail) just how difficult it is to write and enforce a fraud statute under the federal court's mens rea requirement. Because of the zealousness to enforce fraud, we're basically moving to a statutory standard, no intent required.

People think that predatory lending laws were discriminatory, statutory crimes, when combined with minimum sentencing guidelines, are a totally different beast...

One benefit of not voting for over a decade is a sense of objectivity.

The smell of desperation here is... disturbing. I hope y'all are right but I suspect you are not. The Machine succumbs to no man, particularly one who is beholden to it.

The US Attorney said that they were going to be prosecuting folks who lied on their mortgage paperwork. If it was just some poor shlub was got in over his or her head by lying about income to buy an overpriced tool shed with running water, the Feds would cut them a deal: "plead guilty to a felony, but no jail time".

There will be a new set of US Atty's in January. Obama is fierce on fraud (he's been pushing aggressive anti-mortgage-fraud provision from 2006) but he recognizes the problem is the mortgage broker fraud mills, not the chumps and small-timers they got to sign up. Resources will be allocated accordingly.

The bankruptcy changes will favor the general population, not the banks.

dryfly: it's good this exchange we're having

The talking about it is where the progress is made. Where the getting over it occurs. And if, by some whim of fate or blessings of a higher power or the solid work of hundreds of thousands of people, Obama gets elected--this too will serve to further us along as a people, as a society of all men (and women).

Emp writes:
Thinking strategically, if I was Russia or another beligerant country it would be a good time for military actions against other countries knowing that Obama has pledged to bring troops home.
Emp

You'd be mistaken.

The Bradley effect hasn't been seen for 15 years. It didn't affect Braun, Patrick, or Obama. Obama has pretty consistently beat his poll numbers, so there's certainly no Bradley effect left in Democrats or independents. There aren't enough pro-Obama Repubs to make a difference. Add in the fact that a 5% shift isn't nearly enough - Obama is ahead by 7%, and the electoral distribution favors him (even vote splits tend to go his way) and McCain has a huge uphill climb.

Emp writes:
Thinking strategically, if I was Russia or another beligerant country it would be a good time for military actions against other countries knowing that Obama has pledged to bring troops home.

If I were Russia, I would rather consider anouncing that I would start moving my $500+ Bil reserves out of USD. That would do more to promote my cross-broder interests.

Volker the Viking writes:
dryfly: it's good this exchange we're having

The talking about it is where the progress is made. Where the getting over it occurs. And if, by some whim of fate or blessings of a higher power or the solid work of hundreds of thousands of people, Obama gets elected--this too will serve to further us along as a people, as a society of all men (and women).
Volker the Viking | 10.26.08 - 4:03 pm | #

I agree.

Those aren't the only pro-individual changes to the bankruptcy code Obama wants. He's also pushing cramdowns. Plus, don't forget he opposed the 2005 bankruptcy deform act.

Obama has consistently opposed the nasty parts of recent bankruptcy law and you can count on him rolling them back, not forward. He has always had a traditionalist approach to debt and bankruptcy.

Unit472 writes:
Well things aren't going to be "OZ by the summer of 2009. More likely it will be hell on earth especially if the Dems pass tax increases.

If things aren't looking up by Summer 2010 - then it will be hell to pay for incumbents & especially those in the majority (assumed to be Dems) in Fall 2010.

But they will have some time to tinker - about 18 months. Not much considering how FUBAR things look now.

The US Attorney said that they were going to be prosecuting folks who lied on their mortgage paperwork.

Bullroar. This is pure politicking. There is neither the political will to go after the little guy nor does any Fed/State/Local justice branch have the resources to prosecute small cases.

I've heard a lot of not so subtle racial jabs at O - more than I thought I'd hear.

Yes, racism is popping up even in So Cal, but it's met with disbelief and disinterest. Lack of an audience really shuts them down.

Problem for Putin is Russia...

I always smile when I read sentences like this, but not because it's wrong, but because it is so true.

Where else can a person step down from office and then become more powerful politically? Maybe Bushie is trying to emulate Putin?

I agree.

Pollution alert! Pollution alert!

Commenter on another site, someone I usually detest, put it rather well: if Dems win majority House, 60 Senate, and Pres, things better be Oz by next Summer - anything less than zippity doo dah and they're dead.

Didn't work that way for Roosevelt. Anyway, the American population isn't that dumb. They'll blame the current admin for everything that goes bad at least until 2010, and rightfully so. We have deep and long-term problems and it's going to take years for fixes to really help. People are looking for fair and honest government now, not Tinkerbell. Fair and honest has always been at the center of Obama's proposals for just about everything (Iraq audits, Katrina audits, mortgage fraud control, earmark exposure, etc.).

Smoke and mirrors

It all is. There no simple answers but even on this board, there's widespread belief that the color of a president will suddenly absolve them of $10 trillion in direct debt, $55 trillion in liabilities, and (at the moment) an annualized deficit of $5 trillion per year.

It's a good time for anyone to move militarily because the US is insolvent and will soon cut spending regardless of who is elected.

That's why we have the Russia & Georgia situation, that's why we have Somalia pirates hijacking ships.

I predict that most people will secretly be disappointed in their election choice by 2011 but will never admit it, even to themselves (as is par for the course for Americans these days).

Jas is the sanest person on the board and that's just plain sad.

T- 3 hours 40 minutes until Japan opens.

[Yes, racism is popping up even in So Cal, but it's met with disbelief and disinterest. Lack of an audience really shuts them down.
Feckless Ness ]

I'll let you in on a little secret. There's no audience in a voting booth.

With the Bradley Effect you're taking away 5% from Obama and giving it to McCain, for a net 10 point swing.
Captain Fish (Paper Pusher) | 10.26.08 - 4:12 pm | #

Yes - in states like Missouri, Pennsylvania, Ohio - I believe a swing THAT LARGE (+/- 5% over what is reported now) is possible due to 'Bradley'.

In effect the rubes & exurbs vote McCain in as large a spread as city people vote O... w/ suburbs split. A much larger spread than in 2000 or 2004.

In those states 'outstate' vote is a big proportion of the electorate.

Florida, NC, VA Bradley won't be that big (IMHO) first because they have larger minority populations but also I think poll more 'true' - less likely to say one thing & do another.

But in the Midwest where rural means almost all white and racism is less overt but no less present - I think the possibility for a big Bradley Effect is high. Higher than folks realize.

Again I could be wrong - I am waiting for the results myself.

I would like to see more serious discussion of the IMF interventions. According to Automatic Earth, the IMF is a creature of US policies and corporations. There are apparently some folks rich enough to take advantage of the collapse in world economies. Any speculations?

Dry,
You aren't so much misreading as over reading. he media is slanting their polls for a few percent, the Bradley effect is another few percent and the popular vote will be far closer than the pundits suggest. Far closer than their margins of error once again. You'd think they'd have learned that lesson in 2000. Still won't be enough. We'll know early when Virginia and Pennsylvania are called. Either to O and the election is over. Really close in VA and it is still a probable O win in the Electoral College.

For an example, a relative near Dayton, OH with a spouse high up in the Air Force (full bird) and they are voting O because they are hoping for only one more deployment instead of three. I think that' weak logic but there is a serious case of Republican Executive Fatigue out there. Obama won't so much win his 354 votes as he will get the "not the Republican vote" by default. As an aside, IMO had McCain convinced Romney the polls would be more than reversed.

--
On the subject of bailouts and interventions…

"The Fatal Conceit"!

The subject is the title of a book by Frederick Hayek. If he were alive today he would be an archenemy of Chair-moron Benjamin Shalom Bernanke’s policies – socialism for bankers and financiers and incessant interventions in the economy.

Bernanke Claims: “How politicians and central bankers created the Great Depression”

Do we have better “politicians and central bankers” today? Oh, they have learned from history? LMAO! The guy IS fighting the last war, that of 1930s!

AMERICANS OF TODAY ARE FAR INFERIOR, INTELLECTUALLY AS WELL AS MORALLY, TO THE AMERICANS OF 50, 100, AND 200 YEARS AGO. They are conceited about their superiority of knowledge when they are undisputed history ignoramuses.

How in the hell can we have better “politicians and central bankers?” We can’t. Only desperate people in America can be made to believe that Bernanke knows how to avoid depressions, or deflation. He only has one power, to make the outcome much worse than had he not been in power. The guy is an egomaniac in line with the worst of them in history. Can he control how hundreds of millions of people behave during a crisis? Disgusting.

Jas

AMERICANS OF TODAY ARE FAR INFERIOR, INTELLECTUALLY AS WELL AS MORALLY, TO THE AMERICANS OF 50, 100, AND 200 YEARS AGO.

You mean like when we had slavery, and no suffrage? Give it a rest Jas.

Outsider writes:
I agree.

Pollution alert! Pollution alert!
Outsider | 10.26.08 - 4:21 pm | #

I personally don't give shit who wins right about now - but I would LOVE to see a candidate's race no longer be an issue. I still think in a lot of circles it is. In mostly white rural US especially.

Similar to what JFK did to the Catholic/Protestant 'issue' which was HUGE when my parents were young. My father was catholic my mother was protestant and family members didn't want to go to the wedding (circa 1940s)... so they were well in tune with those vibes at the time. My father said it is hard to imagine now how big it was for him then.

There is only one way to make candidate's race no longer an issue - and it would be for a black to actually win the big one.

Having said that - the worst thing would be to win and then be a complete failure - which would fan the 'I told you so' flames for another (couple) generations.

But having a 'break through' election would change the social dynamics FOR EVER regardless of what you think of the guy's qualities or capabilities.

To deny that is just missing the boat.

Not at all, bearly: the last Bush-Kerry polls had Bush taking Ohio and Florida for the win. I think you're confusing the Zogby pro-Kerry outlier with the polling consensus, which was very close to the final outcome. Actually the polls were slightly more favorable to Bush: the only state they got wrong was Wisconsin, which they had going to Bush when it actually went for Kerry.

CR, you've great. I've enjoyed following your blog, lo, these many months. You keep a level head and you seem to be a genuinely kind and caring individual. I've recommended Calculated Risk to many people and they've all responded favorably.

I'm rejoining the real world now, to see what I can do for my community. Maybe I can help my neighbors in the months and years ahead. There is much to be said for keeping the focus on the solution instead of the problem.

I wish you all the best.

$12 Help writes:
Seriously Jas, you have some valid points.

And one of them is right there at the tippy top of your head.

See, when you wax bellicose, and you already know this, you point your finger. everyone who has suffered knows that whenever one points a finger, there are three more pointing straight back at you.

If he is seen to be doing his best, and actually fighting a few special interests, and giving blood sweat and tears speeches, maybe not. People stuck with FDR didn't they? (not my family)

Obama will get his 100 days and then some and if things don't improve far beyond what is possible the media will turn on him with a vengance because by then the economic turmoil will be affecting them personally. Limosine Liberals... oh excuse me... Prius Progressives aren't so generous with OPM when it turns out it means their comfort suffers.

--
"And to what do you attribute that to, Jas?"

Outsider,

Do you really want to know? They ARE born-and-bred dopes. The process began some 90 years ago, but really picked up steam since the breeding of the Baby Doomers – raised on nothing but propaganda.

Jas

"AMERICANS OF TODAY ARE FAR INFERIOR, INTELLECTUALLY AS WELL AS MORALLY, TO THE AMERICANS OF 50, 100, AND 200 YEARS AGO. They are conceited about their superiority of knowledge when they are undisputed history ignoramuses."

Bll-Sht, no pun intended .

just look at the proportion of BA/BS degrees in the population today, 50, 100, 200 years ago and you'll notice how wrong you are...

Unit472 writes:
The big and dangerous difference between Poland and Ukraine is that Ukraine has a large Russian minority.

You'd think Russia would be offering Ukraine support - you win more friends with kindness then threats. Even as screwed up as Russia is you'd think they could find a little something... cheaper to buy than conquer.

Futures down in Japan; anyone tired of the war yet?

JFHC, last one out of the TSE -- turn out the lights!

"The stock market is pricing in an Obama victory in the election."

I am wondering if the SEC is incubating a plan to shut down the markets now until some date well after the election. The world can handle pricing Obama in much longer.

There can be no other explanation for the almost unanimous support Obama receives from black voters than his racial status.

There is. Blacks have voted overwhelmingly Democratic in Presidential races since FDR and then (more so) since Kennedy/Johnson.

If Obama were a Republican, he would only get about half or so of the black vote. But that would break forever the Democratic stranglehold on black voters in Presidential elections. As it is, the stranglehold is reinforced probably forever.

Blacks are not the battleground in this election. Hispanics are. The fact that maybe 80+% of Hispanics will vote for Obama is big because 1) Hispanics already outnumber blacks and they will vastly outnumber them in 20 years; and 2) Hispanics were definitely up for grabs, with no party having a stranglehold.

Ironically, Obama has created this juggernaut with Hispanics by doing and saying almost nothing for them. He chose to tap dance around the whole immigration fiasco, which is near to Hispanics' hearts, and it hasn't hurt him.

alongwaytogo, I am betting Paulson bails out some hedge funds and as soon as he does everyone should march on Washington.

I would like to warn investors here not to get too bearish at this point. We are due for a big bear market rally, even if there were no PPT. And there definitely is a PPT and this next battle is their Gettysburg. They will throw everything they have into one last charge to keep the markets from falling farther.

In between falling gas prices, media hype, 1% fed funds rate, and consumer relief, it wouldn't surprise me if this Xmas shopping season surprises to the upside.

I'm looking for a bear market rally of at least 15-20% from the bottom over the next 8-10 weeks. At that point, you should jump back in with both feet short, because we are nowhere's near the ultimate bottom.

That may be 2 years or more off.

Financial tempest spreads to Gulf states - The New York Times
Financial tempest spreads to Gulf states
The global economic crisis extended its reach into the Gulf states Sunday, as Kuwait suspended trading in shares of a major bank and the Saudi authorities announced a plan to help citizens receive credit.

FAIR GAME; They're Shocked, Shocked, About the Mess - NY Times
GRETCHEN MORGENSON

They’re Shocked, Shocked, About the Mess
'MY hypocrisy meter konked out last week.'
(The title and first line reads like something Tanta would write before her coffee!)

Wow, cliff diving.

Our inflection point?

Thx comrade food.

McLame had 4,000 supporters at his Denver rally and the press declared Colorado in the Red column.

So the 100,000 whom showed up to see That One must be delusional or something.

Can't wait to say President Palin! She is our best and brightest (she went to 6 different colleges after all) and really knows how to make free market based capitalism work.

Pavel, glad you're here. Helps keep it sane. Or more nearly sane.

badger,

Virginia pols are the one's who pressed the O campaign to invest time and effort in the state. They see it as possible, worth the trouble.

The real question on the racial issue is what happens in 15 - 20 years when whites become a minority. At that time there will be an ethnic minority with much greater wealth than the rest of the country. History is unamimous that this is a dangerous recipe as the new majority looks to reverse what it sees as historical injustices by redistributive policies, and the new minority sees as racist attempts to seize their justly accumulated property.

US/SP500 futures opened flat to slightly positive

Gone Fishin':

I think you have to consider the odds that, among the anointed big nine, there are no solvent banks today. Now. Prior to oncoming hits.

FFDIC writes:
Two hour special on CNBC tonite? Poor Maria's or Erin's weekend cut short again. They will be blonde & haggard looking like Andrea Mitchell before we know it.
FFDIC | 10.26.08 - 6:17 pm | #

Maybe we can marry them off to a fed chairman a la Andrea - know any available?

Maybe we can marry them off to a fed chairman a la Andrea - know any available?

dryfly | 10.26.08 - 6:23 pm | #
J-Yello - Janet Yellin might be interested when she has had too much Oak Leaf Vineyard's wine at Alan's house.
(sold at WalMart for $2.97)

Don't expect Lefty to have any specials on Saké anytime soon.

km4 writes:
OT: The Financial Times endorses Barack Obama

For Prime Minister?

I personally don't give shit who wins right about now - but I would LOVE to see a candidate's race no longer be an issue. I still think in a lot of circles it is. In mostly white rural US especially.

Ah, but let's not let race be the scapegoat here. Okay, I'll admit, I already have, I can't stand Obama. But I love Colin Powell. I'd vote for him. I love Condoleeza. I think she's cool. I'd vote for a woman but not Hillary.

Northern Va will go to Obama, actually I think the state will. Yes, we have the Stars and Bars here but it isn't like the old days. Fairfax County, the center of No. VA. is 1/2 immigrant now.

The Ukraine. I believe that is where the expression "Beyond the Pale" comes from. Part of Poland and what is now Ukraine was the Pale or settlement area. Pavel probably knows far more than I do.

Interesting that in Poland you see the Ukraine flag flown as much as the Polish on the border.

The Ukraine is also the home of at least 1200 mass graves left over from the last time experienced the political turmoil of depression, hunger, and men who had the only answer.

Somebody just rushed in to save the Dollar and Euro from the yellow menace.

Do you really want to know? They ARE born-and-bred dopes. The process began some 90 years ago, but really picked up steam since the breeding of the Baby Doomers – raised on nothing but propaganda.

Jas - are you still here? I do sincerely want to know. I have my own beliefs for the cause of the sad situation, just wanted to know what yours was.

lawyerliz writes:
Dry--Maybe your area is the one area in the whole country that he has given up on?
lawyerliz | 10.26.08 - 6:35 pm | #

Maybe - we'll see. We usually get pummeled with callers from the DFL (our local variant of the Democratic Party - stands for Democratic Farmer Labor Party - I kid you not, look it up).

Be a historic night regardless.

stood exactly in the center of the ground zero he had designated in Red Square. He looked around and saw young couples with babies, children, old people. He burst into tears.

Truer words never spoken, about remembering the humanity involved. If love were everyone's guiding aim, we wouldn't have to worry about, well, anything really. Wouldn't that be nice?

Where I live in conservative Southern California both national candidates have long since moved on since the checks having cleared and our has been money spent elsewhere. Our part is over. Back to another 4 years of financial hostility.

Troy | 10.26.08 - 6:43 pm | Thanks, and makes sense. Beyond the fire light and order of society. My Mother used to use that expression. It was for a totally uncivil act.

monta's ankle writes:
"USD-JPY real time anyone?"
93.7

hmm, big move - thanks sm

is something afoot?