Why build new stores when they can just take over some of the vacant space of the other big boxes going dark, should be plenty of it around in a few months. Even though it is being cut by a third, it still seems to high to me.
Anecdotally, I was in WalMart yesterday, and it was far from crowded at mid-day of a Sunday. Was a time you couldn't hardly get around for all the people and carts weekend days. The checkout lines were quick and the store was not noisy.
I think purchase activity is becoming more and more centered on mid-month and month-end paydays, i.e. 13th-16th and 29th-1st.
WE cant afford him. He will tax the living shit out of us. B Clinton ran on tax cuts but when elected he jacked them up!!! Obama will take our tax money and spend it on stupid programs and massive entitlements.
The road to socialism and 75% tax rates will be clearly in sight if this guy gets into office. He will turn a moderate recession into a full blown depression. God help us.
The road to socialism and 75% tax rates will be clearly in sight if this guy gets into office. He will turn a moderate recession into a full blown depression. God help us.
Anonymous | 10.27.08 - 4:02 pm | #
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
The tax cuts under bush worked great for the market? S&P in real terms is negative 60%...
"WE cant afford him."
Sorry Anon, I haven't made enough to have my taxes increase under Obama since '06. So I can afford him. Too bad I can't afford anything else....
dont worry all, the mexican bolsa finished UP today, all the other markets notwithstanding. So, see, there is some real value out there. Mexico is doing great! Flight to quality! Yes we MexiCAN!!!
Summarizing: Soon-to-be-realized-other-legs-down-to-the-economy
1. Commercial RE blows up
2. Corporate Bankruptcies (and corp bond defaults) and derivitives problems
3. Mono-line insurers and former IBs go under due to derivities.
4. Credit Card CDOs going under (and derivities problems)
5. Auto Loan CDO going under (and derivities problems)
5. Student Loan CDOs going under (and derivitives problems)
6. Negative growth in GDP and corporate earnings
7. Continued delveraging
8. Housing prices still have to fall to trend line
9. Municple, County, and State bankruptcies
10. Possible failure of government auctions as all rich nations attemp to borrow to 'help' current situation
11. Massive default of loans to non-rich world as current round of unwinding carry trades destroys currency exchange
The under 250K plan Obama is touting is BS the numbers wont work first of all the bottom 40% of wage earners dont pay any tax, secondly spending an additional trillion will make it necessary for everyone to pay more in taxes.
I live in NW DC. I have no idea where the nearest Walmart is. But I have seen them eradicate local businesses and draw the life out of a small community elsewhere. Fewer small businessmen means less community support and solidarity.
OTOH, a nephew of ours works at Sam's Club, and since he's only a high school graduate that's probably the best job he can get.
Byzantine_Ruins writes:
Wow. It IS the NBA market. All of the excitement is in the last 15 minutes.
Byzantine_Ruins | Homepage | 10.27.08 - 4:12 pm | #
Don't ever say the next president can't do any worse...Let's wish him the best nomatter who he is. Afterall he's mine as well as yours, and Damn Let's hope he's good.
I agree. If i was the head Klansman and owned a business, and jesse jackson was the best salesman i'd hire him.
bad analogy, but regardless of who wins... there will be no money for "programs -civilian or constiuant or lobbist so we wish them luck, no hatred as so many have had for Bush...
OTOH, Uncle Joe's Woodshed (backwards 's' just to be cute) is still in business, where the huge big-stomached guys in wool shirts and suspenders, beards down to their waists, come down from the hills to buy their shotgun shells and other live-in-the-hills paraphernalia.
Don't ever say the next president can't do any worse...Let's wish him the best nomatter who he is. Afterall he's mine as well as yours, and Damn Let's hope he's good.
Remember, the next President might be a she. (God help us, that would be a worse nightmare than Bernanke becoming Chairman of the Fed)
well headins. to get all mathematical, if it's down 7k when old W passes the torch, we chillen only got another 7k to burn before we know the bottom is really i
[look at it this way, when the market is down 50%, worst case the next pres can't do any worse, can they?]
Look, I don't think anyone expects either nominee will reverse the slide in equities or arrest the coming depression. The difference is, will there be any incentive to step in with an equities bid in the next 4 years if any hope of upside is crushed by taxes. This means foreign money finds other uses.
Also, huge increases in entitlements or social programs of little value may also hammer the USD and make selling treasuries tougher.
We lose a decade if O wins. If McSame wins we lose another 2 years.
hahahahah (Republican) Sen. Ted Stevens in Alaska found guilty on all seven counts of making false statements on his financial disclosure forms. He'll look great in his new orange jumper suit. lol
.
The road to socialism and 75% tax rates will be clearly in sight if his guy gets into office.
You don't say? I had no idea, I thought that Obama was just going to be guy fronting for the fiscal austerity that the elites are going to cram down our throats to pay for their speculative mistakes.
Do you have any more details? I'd really like to know more, because if you are right, I would start considering getting behind him.
re:plot to kill Obama. If true, that surprises me not a whit. There is a great deal of anger in those McCain/Palin crowds. Scary. Thank God they caught them.
The ATF says it has broken up a plot to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and shoot or decapitate 102 black people in a Tennessee murder spree.
In court records unsealed Monday, agents said they disrupted plans to rob a gun store and target an unnamed by predominantly African-American high school by two neo-Nazi skinheads.
"first of all the bottom 40% of wage earners dont pay any tax"
SS?
Medicare?
Site a source for the 40% paying no income tax? Or just repeat of the conservative talking points?
The WSJ has documented this extensively, if you are willing to accept this source as someting other than just a "talking point". If you are seriously interested in the data, I will have to send you pdfs as WSJ requires subscription to read links.
SS is a dedicated entitlement, meaning you supposedly get it back. Income taxes are for the "general fund"
hahahahah (Republican) Sen. Ted Stevens in Alaska found guilty on all seven counts of making false statements on his financial disclosure forms. He'll look great in his new orange jumper suit. lol
Dirk van Dijk writes:
On the positive side, the recent dramatic rebound in the dollar will mean that the chinese crap is even cheaper.
Dirk van Dijk | 10.27.08 - 4:00 pm | #
Rebound? I think somebody forgot to put air in the ball.
European stuff converted from euros to USD might be getting cheaper. Stuff denominated in yuan - not so much.
The people in the Palin crowds think an assassination is when someone f-cks America in the ass...
I think we're safe from that bunch other than the cost on our society from their utter stupidity.
All talk just like most conservatives.
Whatev writes:
Yes, serious--just on CNBC--breaking news. Can't find any other info. They said it was 2 "skinheads"
2 skinheads from a county east of Memphis, Tn. (middle of nowhere). Planned to kill 80 black schoolchildren first to lure Obama. Great criminal minds at work
Actually the plot after Obama gets elected is much more scarier.
He is going to open the skies to Muslim an African paratroopers who will drop from the American sky late at night. Once on the ground they will scatter to selected white peoples homes where they will then break in.
They will then force the cowering homeowners to convert. Then to really spite them the TV's will be tuned to only 2 channels. Al-jazzera and NBA games.
Anoddamoose writes:
re:plot to kill Obama. If true, that surprises me not a whit. There is a great deal of anger in those McCain/Palin crowds. Scary. Thank God they caught them.
Perhaps. But they're not going to catch all of them.
Whatev writes:
hahahahah (Republican) Sen. Ted Stevens in Alaska found guilty on all seven counts of making false statements on his financial disclosure forms. He'll look great in his new orange jumper suit. lol
So if McPalin loses, can Palin be Sen?
Whatev | 10.27.08 - 4:39 pm | #
Sure. But nothing stopping Ted from serving from prison assuming he wins. It's happened before.
--
The economy is working on all cylinders (a phase not as commonly used these days as a decade or two ago). With the gear in the reverse!
Chair-moron Bernanke is known to be a horrible driver in reverse (I confess that I am not good at it too, but I know my limitations and egomaniacs like Greenspan and Bernanke don't).
Only a moron had faith in Greenspan and the same applies for Bernanke now. Maybe, we get the Fed Chair-morons we deserve.
dryfly writes:
Whatev writes:
hahahahah (Republican) Sen. Ted Stevens in Alaska found guilty on all seven counts of making false statements on his financial disclosure forms. He'll look great in his new orange jumper suit. lol
I hope that 80 year old man gets brutally gang raped all of his remaining days
My Good Deed of the day. I told the lunatic born-again Obama hater in my car pool that after Obama is elected he will announce the plan. This plan calls for building a National Mosque next to the Holocaust Museum. I think she believed me.
This is after she told me that at church Obama plans to stop all Christian broadcasting.
wal mart thread is really bring out the lefties. Oh teh noes!!!
The reality though, is that Ron Paul will get his limited government wish by default, not design. HA, that was funny. Default. Oh well one default is as good as another.
Lefties better get long cat food, and you righties best start praying that debt issuance doesn't hit 15%.
You all are worse than sheep, your whats for dinner.
" ... the top fifth of earners currently pay 67% of all federal taxes -- including not just income taxes, but payroll taxes, corporate taxes and death taxes. The top 1% of earners pay 26% of all federal taxes."
Speed: the Saudi's have a deal with Bush/Cheney to take down the oil price in last 30 days of every pre-election. The deal was sealed and resealed each time held the hand of the Saudi king on their garden walks together.
If you don't have subscription I'll e-mail pdf. There are numerous studies on this point, assuming anyone is open minded enough to read them.
Comrade Vistulian | Homepage | 10.27.08 - 4:52 pm | #
Comrade Vistulian are you familiar with the 'Willie Sutton' principle?
There are two ways to avoid taxes - don't have money or already be dead.
Why read and inform ourselves? We feel and know whats right, because our two present day Pied Pipers tell us that the way we feel is more important than facts. Galileo, DaVinci, Copernicus, were all wonky pragmatists, just like these modern day truth spewers.
I hate all facts, unless spun from my political paradigm.
crispy&cole writes:
Show me where 40% pay no taxes - that is not true. SS, Medicare, Sales Tax, Property Tax, GAs Tax, etc...
Obviously, everyone, even the unborn, pays taxes. Perhaps the point he is trying to make is that certain segments of taxpayers pay a disproportionate and unfair amount.
But as "crispy&cole" pointed out, what you and the authors of those 2 articles conveniently ignore are the "other" taxes paid - SS, Medicare, Sales Tax, Property Tax etc which ARE already a kind of FLAT Tax.
Would be interested in seeing research that takes ALL THE TAXES into account and present the data. Otherwise, it is trying to make the data fit an argument.
Countrywide screwed up a mortgage payment due to a .2cent error. Lucky I'm a payment ahead. These shysters never miss a trick, trying to con me into refinancing as well.
They want confidence, I want to feel confident too and seeing these jerks in orange jumpsuits behind bars is a start. Until then bah humbug for xmas.
The large architecture firm BSW architects which produced most of wal-mart's drawings abruptly went out of business last month. When I interviewed with them (did not take the job) years ago, they were churning out a full set of drawings for wal-mart in about 3 days, which is remarkable. This is a really big deal. Here's the link:
"Also, what percentage of the total income is earned by the top 1%? (BTW - I am in the top 1% and I could care less who wins)"
Check the link I sent in earlier post, latest data (2205) is top 1% took in about 21% of income and paid 39% of Federal taxes. Seriously.
Agree on regerssive nature of sales taxes, but most of those are inflicted on State level, along with highly progressive income taxes (at least in CA where I live).
World stock markets stabilized, avoiding another day of sharp losses after some upbeat U.S. housing figures helped shares rally from early lows. Still, European indexes closed mostly lower on global growth worries.
Jeebus. I am not going to allow my taxes to go to feeding hungary kids, improving roads, or other such socialist nonsense.
I bet most of those kids are just faking it. Showing up at my kids school with their empty Spider Man lunch boxes. Heck, if we gave them money for food you know what they really spend it on. Candy! Or drugs!
Tell your Mommy to get a job kid. Or two like we did back in the day. She is just laying around watching Oprah is my guess. Having babies for money. We all know the type
Stop answering feel good political themes that people use to build resentment and shift focus from real issues and solutions with facts and logic. YOU STOP IT RIGHT NOW!!! Arghhhh.
Would be interested in seeing research that takes ALL THE TAXES into account and present the data. Otherwise, it is trying to make the data fit an argument.
My 2 cents.
Sril | 10.27.08 - 4:59 pm | #
Throw in 'user fees' too. As a small biz I pay plenty of 'user fees' I never get to use. Especially unemployment 'insurance' - pay it but can't lay myself off which I suppose is good 'cause otherwise I would (lol).
Would be interested in seeing research that takes ALL THE TAXES into account and present the data. Otherwise, it is trying to make the data fit an argument.
My 2 cents.
Sril | 10.27.08 - 4:59 pm | #
Agree!
Also, why focus on income earned? Why not percentage of Net Worth? I would bet the top 1% of NW does not pay its fair share of all taxes (on a percentage basis).
I am trying to figure out if buying IAU will be equivalent to buying "physical" gold.
Even if Barclays goes under, will my investment still be equivalent to the price of Gold? Does COMEX Gold Trust actually hold the exact amount of physical gold as required by the number of shares issued?
There are two ways to avoid taxes - don't have money or already be dead.-dryfly
Too true. All you people worried about your taxes going up are forgetting that none of you will have any money. Relax! Sell everything before the end of the year and lock in the current tax rate on your awesome gains. Booyah!!
SS, Medicare, blah blah that you are claiming everyone (read: poor people) pays, are merely down payments on services these people have or will suck from the system.
They will reap benefits ten times their contribution.
I must have missed the memo. Can someone explain exactly why we need more WalMarts in the near future?
If WalMart is contracting, you can bet that hundreds of mom-and-pop businesses are going under. WalMart is way better positioned to whether the storm than most small businesses.
No, Nullpointer I am not. You know deep down inside what that man wants don't you. He wants to tax all the white middle class. Steal our money to feed them inner city ghetto kids and give them opprutunities! Opprotunities my ass. All they will do is drive out the suburbs and steal our hood ornaments. That and let them out of jail.
As of January 31, 2008, Wal-Mart operated 971 discount stores, 2,447 supercenters, 132 neighborhood markets, and 591 Sam�s Clubs in the United States; and 21 units in Argentina, 313 in Brazil, 305 in Canada, 149 in Costa Rica, 70 in El Salvador, 145 in Guatemala, 47 in Honduras, 394 in Japan, 1,023 in Mexico, 46 in Nicaragua, 54 in Puerto Rico, and 352 in the United Kingdom, as well as 202 stores through joint ventures in China.(yahoo)
I need to find a bookie that will takes bets on whether Stevens gets pardoned. Although you would probably get terrible odds if you were betting against prison time.
LOL @ nova. But nova, you should be scared at how well you imitate that line. Almost as if a piece of you is possessed. Imagine if it were to take over.
SS and Medicare are undunded by $43 trillion! Add that to the $10.6 trillion national debt and then we get the real picture of where we are at.
Those of us under 40 will never see any of that money, never! So I consider my contributions to it a Tax and not a contribution for some fuutre benefit I will receive.
My jeebus! Wake up. We lost control of all the sports except lacrosse and field hockey. C'mon. They don't call it the White House for nothing. Lets keep America Christian!
Conjure's Bodyguard writes:
"Stop answering feel good political themes that people use to build resentment and shift focus from real issues and solutions with facts and logic. YOU STOP IT RIGHT NOW!!! Arghhhh."
OK, sorry .... If I didn't respect this board I wouldn't even bother trying.
I must have missed the memo. Can someone explain exactly why we need more WalMarts in the near future?
I think that's the point so many people in the media are missing with the notion the TARP will "induce banks to lend."
Someone with a business plan has to be pulling on the other end of the lending string.
What would it be? Another Pizza Hut in the Inland Empire? Nail salons in Florida strip malls? Another square foot of retail space, pretty much anywhere?
you said you were in top 1%. You will be means tested out anyway.
You pay, but sadly (or not, maybe you are wealthy) no play. Multiply that times 60, divide that by the fact your money (taxes) will never reach the beneficiaries you want to reach under any of these two presidential buffoons, and you will soon realize that even though you WANTED to help, the system just won't let you.
Letter from Government:
Crispy&cole,
Thank you for the money. We used it to fund peanut research and purchase a new orbital weapons platform. Can't wait for next year.
monta's ankle - I thought Roubini's pimped-out pad was pretty dawn funny the first 3 times, but am I the only one sick of hearing about his giant vaginal wall art, or whatever that actually is?
They need the majority to believe and accept this, and when you do, that's when it'll be confiscated. You make a fine sheeple...bahahahaha
rps | 10.27.08 - 5:16 pm | #
I has been used to balance the budget for 20+ years...sheeple? look in the mirror
Schnapstafarian agree with you. Whoever is behind that site is really sleazy and this crap has no place here. Monta's ankle, there should be enough economic or finance news to talk about.
I am fascinated by this GOP meme that McCain would not raise taxes.
Mac supports the trillion dollar Iraq war, the trillion dollar Wall Street bailout, the insurance sector bail out, the Fannie/Freddie bailout, the Detroit bailout and the idea of "stabilizing house prices". Let's peg that at another trillion or two.
Sooo.... where is the money coming from? Does he have a leprechaun stashed around somewhere?
Whatev writes:
The problem with raising taxes is that corporations will just raise their prices and pass it along...
Still no problem. See, you guys have deflation. So rising prices are good, see. In fact in a preverse way it could fix all your problems.
Suck it up, tax whiners. You're going to get universal health care, better schools and roads, and less military intervention. Welcome to the 21st century.
Another high yeild CD just got kicked back after the order was filled...just like what happened to me with silver state bank.
FDIC seems to close off brokered CDs on the way to taking over the show.
This time, it's tomato bank...put 'er on the watch list..
crispy&cole writes:
SS and Medicare are undunded by $43 trillion! Add that to the $10.6 trillion national debt and then we get the real picture of where we are at.
and a negative trade balance (tells you someting about economic competitivness),
and yah, nowbody needs your #1 export article (famous AAA-rated crap) anymore.
It's not just the debt-hole, it's your economiy setup (bloated finance industry, dying manufacturing and ...)
Karelian,Palin is the Tax expert on the Team.She has announced that she will eliminate the deficit and balance the budget in her first term by eliminating the death and capital gains taxes...
No problem. Just promise you won't litter the comments with Rep v Dem trash. These comments are a great source of info when political leanings have been checked at the door.
i got a call today from the NPR marketplace segment, they want to do a fluff piece on economic costumuing for haloween after seeing our zombiecon pics relating to wall st.
a non economic colleague and i will be doing our interview tomorrow, don't know when or if it airs. i maybe using my mercury john alias.
i'm writing talking points and would love to use some of the gang's ideas, critiques and costume concepts.
rough draft-
costume ideas-
"many of us will be zombie bankers" hopefully he will know what a zombie bank is, if not i'll clarify without embarrassing him. "we're striving for a Zombie Interest Rate Policy, or ZIRP, a policy that needs brains, because it has none. as you can see from what happened to Japan for the last 12 deflationary years."
"a bloody golden parachute worn by a tuxedo'ed Billionaire for Bailouts Ceo being chased by a horde of pitchfork wielding Joe the farmers."
"my macroeconomic adviser friend, Alan Greenspend, told me he will be going as the ghost of FASB rule 157, or level 2 and 3 asset accounting, something to do with mark to market of highly leveraged derivatives. but he's geeky like that".
"an ATM that spits out IOU's."
reflective quote "costumes are a way for folks to express their darkest fears, to take ownership of them and perhaps provide hope through release, which i think we all need in these times."
"i like scary costumes and the scariest thing i could think up is that the planet only has 60 trillion of gdp, the derivative market is about 600 trillion, i'm still working on that costume concept."
and the capper for the piece, "i know at our after party we will have some hotties going as the ghosts of naked short selling." which is quite true.
The problem with raising taxes is that corporations will just raise their prices and pass it along. The non-taxed will end up paying anyways.
Not in a deflationary environment, they won't. Actually, this has been an issue for awhile, and has periodically been cited as an explanation for "downward pressure on earnings". Or, why people have been purchasing Apple stock in recent years, but not those of automobile manufacturers. Apple can pass on costs, Ford, GM and Chrysler cannot.
Richard Estes writes:
The problem with raising taxes is that corporations will just raise their prices and pass it along. The non-taxed will end up paying anyways.
Not in a deflationary environment, they won't. Actually, this has been an issue for awhile, and has periodically been cited as an explanation for "downward pressure on earnings". Or, why people have been purchasing Apple stock in recent years, but not those of automobile manufacturers. Apple can pass on costs, Ford, GM and Chrysler cannot.
Instead, Ford, GM and Chrysler will layoff workers to cut costs to pay their taxes.
"i like scary costumes and the scariest thing i could think up is that the planet only has 60 trillion of gdp, the derivative market is about 600 trillion, i'm still working on that costume concept."
The goose is cooked, both parties are to blame - the sheeple are anyone who votes for either party thinking they will solve this fiscal mess.
crispy&cole | Homepage | 10.27.08 - 5:23 pm | #
"Suck it up, tax whiners. You're going to get universal health care, better schools and roads, and less military intervention. Welcome to the 21st century."
Great (even if true) but then lets leave behind the exploding public employee 20th century style (er defined benefit, COLA protected) entitlements. If you live in San Diego you know what I mean.
If we're all comrades, then let all the new retainers learn to save and take the same risks as the rest of the soon-to-be regulated masses.
So when GM and Chrysler merge, and then fail together, what happens to their pensioners? Federal Pension Guarantee Corp. steps into pick up the slack, right? And then more firms fail, and they tell two friends, and they tell too friends...
"If we're all comrades, then let all the new retainers learn to save and take the same risks as the rest of the soon-to-be regulated masses."
I'll be around in 20 years, though creaky, and I expect there to be no public employment pension plans nor old-age health care plans operating at that time. They'll all have imploded and been rolled in to SS/MC via some mechanism that just might be as creaky and weird as the current bailouts.
Tried to vote early today at the local library in North Palm Beach County. Couldn't find a place to park although I went at two different times.
The snow birds have arrived in droves early to cast their votes. I have never seen so many Mercedes' and BMW's circling around looking for places to park. Florida politics is so distorted by Northerners who have changed their residency for tax purposes. Hopefully they are not voting twice. They have cars registered here and cars registered where they live. It does not take any effort to get a dulicate license.
I can not imagine that they are more concerned about politics where tey reside in the winter than where they reside for the remaining months of the year. The Repbulicans should not talk about voter fraud. It is rampant within their well healed regular residents. Most of these folks will return home and then be back after Christmas or Thanksgiving.
You are assuming "either/or" binary outcomes, when the range is much more varied along horizontal and vertical axes.
For example, a company might pay higher taxes without laying people off if the company is still profitable, but less so. It might instead mean less money for dividends, which would be a good tradeoff, if the money that would have gone to dividends actually went to government spending that benefitted the lower 50% of the populace in terms of income, because that would go right into consumption. In other words, a tradeoff of dividends for stimulus would be worth making.
Or, it could mean less money available for investment in new technologies. That would be bad, but could be addressed through specified tax breaks for this activity.
Or, it could mean the preservation of government expenditures for services that the business requires to carry on its operations, roads, various forms of infrastructure. Basically, those aspects of society that corporations outsource to the the government. Paying less tax, suffering the degradation of the quality of this infrastructure wouldn't be good either, because it impairs the ability of the corporation to produce and deliver goods to the consumer.
Vertically, there is the question, already alluded to in regards to lower income people, as to whether the government expenditure from the tax results in income growth more generally throughout the society. Paying more taxes, but experiencing an expanding market, would be good.
I mention these things not as certain outcomes, because circumstances vary, but to observe that invocations of things like, higher taxes = passed on to consumer, or higher taxes = less jobs, doesn't provide much illumination. If higher taxes were always bad, why is it that states with some of the highest tax rates (NY, CA, etc.), and, hence, most developed infrastructure, seem to have historically performed than regions that have perpetually advertised their low taxes (the Deep South)?
Comrade Vistulian, I agree with you on the taxation thingie. It is hard to talk to the Party Apparatchiks here or anywhere for that matter. They drink the cool aid so eagerly.
To quote Thomas Paine: "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."
This thread's close to dead, but to those of you interested in getting REAL data on income and tax distribution, check out the recent book "American Century" by Fischer and Hout.
For you fellow geeks, Google "Tom Petska" AND SOI. Tom is director of the IRS Statistics of Income Division and has written many excellent papers on distribution of income tax with charts and tables that CR would envy.
crispy and cole @ 5:08- not to be rude, but if you are in the top 1%, as you claim, why would you care if you "never see any of that money"? Is it that much of a burn?
" But nothing stopping Ted from serving from prison assuming he wins. It's happened before."
Sure, drug dealers, gang lords and mob chieftains set the model for that. Stevens will probably feel right at home.
Seriously, though, PBS noted that the government made "so many mistakes" in presenting their case, that Stevens will have lots of grounds on which to base an appeal.
Gee, now that's a surprise. A stealth pardon.
Sears' ad indicates big post-Thanksgiving bargains - Oct. 27, 2008
Black Friday: Deep discounts coming
Ad showing Sears' planned sales for the day after Thanksgiving include a Kenmore washer-dryer set for $600, up to 60% off on clothing and bargains on flatscreen TVs.
(Flatscreen TV sales will beat expectations but not much else.)
Wal-Mart is the Zik-Zak Corporation.
1st?
Hey, Haloscan forgot my name!
That first comment was me, of course.
of course
we wont be buying as much of the cheap chinese crap they peddle anytime soon.
Wait, so there will only be Wal-Marts on one side of the road?
Why build new stores when they can just take over some of the vacant space of the other big boxes going dark, should be plenty of it around in a few months. Even though it is being cut by a third, it still seems to high to me.
And perhaps 80% for expansion in china...
Down Goes.. um what's his name again?
How many former WS bankers will they hire?
On the positive side, the recent dramatic rebound in the dollar will mean that the chinese crap is even cheaper.
Down goes Frazier
Down goes Frazier
Sell FASTER pussycat. SELL SELL SELL.
Anecdotally, I was in WalMart yesterday, and it was far from crowded at mid-day of a Sunday. Was a time you couldn't hardly get around for all the people and carts weekend days. The checkout lines were quick and the store was not noisy.
I think purchase activity is becoming more and more centered on mid-month and month-end paydays, i.e. 13th-16th and 29th-1st.
but i dont have a walmart within a mile of my house, i feel left out!
Looks like the PPT took left a few minutes too early...oh well, there is always tommorow
NOBAMA
NOBAMA
NOBAMA
WE cant afford him. He will tax the living shit out of us. B Clinton ran on tax cuts but when elected he jacked them up!!! Obama will take our tax money and spend it on stupid programs and massive entitlements.
The road to socialism and 75% tax rates will be clearly in sight if this guy gets into office. He will turn a moderate recession into a full blown depression. God help us.
SRS is attempting a moon shot.
Not a Walmart Shopper, will buy what I need at the grocery store even if it cost more.
This is just my way of protesting, everything you pick up in Walmart is
made in China.
No longer is their shitty propaganda used in their commercials about made in America.
How about we just keep the "market" open from 12:30 to 1:00 pst...the rest of the day is meaningless.
Why do we even bother with the first 6 hours of the trading day?
The road to socialism and 75% tax rates will be clearly in sight if this guy gets into office. He will turn a moderate recession into a full blown depression. God help us.
Anonymous | 10.27.08 - 4:02 pm | #
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
The tax cuts under bush worked great for the market? S&P in real terms is negative 60%...
Question is, well we get 4% down?
THE HOOPAJOOP IS OVERHEATING
QUICK
EVERYONE TO THE EXITS IN THE LAST THIRTY SECONDS!!!
welcome to wal-mart, browse the empty shelves at your leisure.
From plus 40 to down over 230...wtf?
"WE cant afford him."
Sorry Anon, I haven't made enough to have my taxes increase under Obama since '06. So I can afford him. Too bad I can't afford anything else....
obody wants to be long overnight, much like banks and overnight loans.
AAIEEEEE!!!!
The lemmings jumped around 3:50.
dont worry all, the mexican bolsa finished UP today, all the other markets notwithstanding. So, see, there is some real value out there. Mexico is doing great! Flight to quality! Yes we MexiCAN!!!
Riots tonight in Philadelphia.
First pitch 8:29 p.m.
First homerun 8: 41 p.m. (second inning two-run shot)
First overturned car set on fire 11:12 p.m.
First mob beating 11:14 p.m.
First Wal-Mart looting 11:28 p.m. (on-topic)
Summarizing: Soon-to-be-realized-other-legs-down-to-the-economy
1. Commercial RE blows up
2. Corporate Bankruptcies (and corp bond defaults) and derivitives problems
3. Mono-line insurers and former IBs go under due to derivities.
4. Credit Card CDOs going under (and derivities problems)
5. Auto Loan CDO going under (and derivities problems)
5. Student Loan CDOs going under (and derivitives problems)
6. Negative growth in GDP and corporate earnings
7. Continued delveraging
8. Housing prices still have to fall to trend line
9. Municple, County, and State bankruptcies
10. Possible failure of government auctions as all rich nations attemp to borrow to 'help' current situation
11. Massive default of loans to non-rich world as current round of unwinding carry trades destroys currency exchange
Am I missing anything here?
Pretty hard to invest in an envirnment like this.
The under 250K plan Obama is touting is BS the numbers wont work first of all the bottom 40% of wage earners dont pay any tax, secondly spending an additional trillion will make it necessary for everyone to pay more in taxes.
you left off Sovereign defaults.
but you gotta purdy good list.
Troll, come back when you learn how to write a sentence (and please study up on the use of apostrophes).
kthxbai
I live in NW DC. I have no idea where the nearest Walmart is. But I have seen them eradicate local businesses and draw the life out of a small community elsewhere. Fewer small businessmen means less community support and solidarity.
OTOH, a nephew of ours works at Sam's Club, and since he's only a high school graduate that's probably the best job he can get.
Can't we charge the next trillion like the last trillion?
look at it this way, when the market is down 50%, worst case the next pres can't do any worse, can they?
"first of all the bottom 40% of wage earners dont pay any tax"
SS?
Medicare?
Site a source for the 40% paying no income tax? Or just repeat of the conservative talking points?
Wow. It IS the NBA market. All of the excitement is in the last 15 minutes.
Byzantine_Ruins writes:
Wow. It IS the NBA market. All of the excitement is in the last 15 minutes.
Byzantine_Ruins | Homepage | 10.27.08 - 4:12 pm | #
Great analogy!!
Morgan Stanley common dipped below the preferred (MSZ). That's never happened before. What's it mean? Big dilution coming?
Hi, I'm Hank welcome to Wal Mart, need a Cart...
yes George is back in sporting goods and Dick is in Hunting...
"Dick is in hunting" ... lol
thank you... trying to fill in for CSC
Don't ever say the next president can't do any worse...Let's wish him the best nomatter who he is. Afterall he's mine as well as yours, and Damn Let's hope he's good.
USD/JPY 93.40
CME Globex Nikkei futures 6950 (!)
MalX...Are you a writer...If not, you might think about it...Thats funny.
I'm calling around, trying to figure out what blew up. No one, even people who should know, knows anything.
Or is it that it's just Skynet duking it out over the rubble?
We don't really have functioning markets. What we have is a meatgrinder with settlement rules.
Head in..
I agree. If i was the head Klansman and owned a business, and jesse jackson was the best salesman i'd hire him.
bad analogy, but regardless of who wins... there will be no money for "programs -civilian or constiuant or lobbist so we wish them luck, no hatred as so many have had for Bush...
and see what we get...
Globex flash quotes
Search for "NK YEN".
I think we get a 6-handle on the Nikkei tonight.
Both Friday and Monday have been relatively calm days until the last 10 minutes when all hell breaks loose and everyone hits sell.
Friday last 10 minutes = 152 point fall
Today last 10 minutes = 193 point fall
OTOH, Uncle Joe's Woodshed (backwards 's' just to be cute) is still in business, where the huge big-stomached guys in wool shirts and suspenders, beards down to their waists, come down from the hills to buy their shotgun shells and other live-in-the-hills paraphernalia.
6 handle on Nikkei...mommy!!
I wonder if the Hang Seng breaks 10k?
HeadInSand writes:
Don't ever say the next president can't do any worse...Let's wish him the best nomatter who he is. Afterall he's mine as well as yours, and Damn Let's hope he's good.
Remember, the next President might be a she. (God help us, that would be a worse nightmare than Bernanke becoming Chairman of the Fed)
head in...
If you know anyway in writers world talk me up...
ill work from home and cheap....
well headins. to get all mathematical, if it's down 7k when old W passes the torch, we chillen only got another 7k to burn before we know the bottom is really i
"We don't really have functioning markets. What we have is a meatgrinder with settlement rules."
LOL
Nominated for best one-liner of the day.
Detnews.com | This article is no longer available online | detnews.com | The Detroit News
Bailout for Auto lenders.
This must be a hellava market for those folks who are red-blind (mostly males).
Oh wait, just think how happy they can be by not seeing anything on the steaming trackers.
Looks like the CONservatives at CErberus used their significant influence to get some free ponies...WTF??
"first of all the bottom 40% of wage earners dont pay any tax,"
They pay as sizeable %of income into SS which they may never see.
They don't make jack in the fist place.
[look at it this way, when the market is down 50%, worst case the next pres can't do any worse, can they?]
Look, I don't think anyone expects either nominee will reverse the slide in equities or arrest the coming depression. The difference is, will there be any incentive to step in with an equities bid in the next 4 years if any hope of upside is crushed by taxes. This means foreign money finds other uses.
Also, huge increases in entitlements or social programs of little value may also hammer the USD and make selling treasuries tougher.
We lose a decade if O wins. If McSame wins we lose another 2 years.
What happened at the EOD? SPY trading @ 83.91 now. Everything went to hell in a handbasket. (Or heaven in a handcart if you're short.)
hahahahah (Republican) Sen. Ted Stevens in Alaska found guilty on all seven counts of making false statements on his financial disclosure forms. He'll look great in his new orange jumper suit. lol
.
I think we get a 6-handle on the Nikkei tonight.
It's all part of the New Age Chicago School Zero Bound eCONomic framework.
Currency wars, wage arbitrage, price fixing, cronyism, etc. A veritable race to the bottom.
We already lost a decade. Time to think about the constitution and the Bill of Rights.
We lose a decade if O wins. If McSame wins we lose another 2 years.
bearly | 10.27.08 - 4:24 pm | #
Well then prepare to lose a decade, cuz it's already over except for the crying.
Sen. Ted Stevens: "Pardon me?"
Bearly...
Maybe McSame and after 2012 due to Alt A stuff
What happened at the EOD?
o, you know....not much...$VIX at 80, 4% market swings, you know....the usual
We lost a decade in wages, stock market, house values, etc...
Looks like the CONservatives at CErberus used their significant influence to get some free ponies...WTF??
Presidential pardons are now investment mulligans.
C&C just need a decade in House Pricing and all will be well.
Honestly, the next four years will be tough no matter who wins
The road to socialism and 75% tax rates will be clearly in sight if his guy gets into office.
You don't say? I had no idea, I thought that Obama was just going to be guy fronting for the fiscal austerity that the elites are going to cram down our throats to pay for their speculative mistakes.
Do you have any more details? I'd really like to know more, because if you are right, I would start considering getting behind him.
Neuromancer writes:
...Am I missing anything here?
Usually, after such a string of events, the war-machine is cranked up (for diversionary purposes).
Holy crap, cnbc is announcing there was a plot to kill Obama. They caught the people.
I don't know why anyone is surprised by the ever expanding bailouts. Once you bailout the wealthy, everybody is entitled.
Think of the Steve Martin cat juggling scene from the movie "The Jerk".
re:plot to kill Obama. If true, that surprises me not a whit. There is a great deal of anger in those McCain/Palin crowds. Scary. Thank God they caught them.
goodbye 100k crowds for O guy
whatev-
i cant find that anywhere (reuters etc).
you serious?
What was the plot???
Was it Anonymouse? lol
Drudge has a link, skinhead plot.
Whatev
Here it is:
The ATF says it has broken up a plot to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and shoot or decapitate 102 black people in a Tennessee murder spree.
In court records unsealed Monday, agents said they disrupted plans to rob a gun store and target an unnamed by predominantly African-American high school by two neo-Nazi skinheads.
crispy&cole writes:
"first of all the bottom 40% of wage earners dont pay any tax"
SS?
Medicare?
Site a source for the 40% paying no income tax? Or just repeat of the conservative talking points?
The WSJ has documented this extensively, if you are willing to accept this source as someting other than just a "talking point". If you are seriously interested in the data, I will have to send you pdfs as WSJ requires subscription to read links.
SS is a dedicated entitlement, meaning you supposedly get it back. Income taxes are for the "general fund"
Spring On the Right side of Wall Street (Fall and Blood on the other).
Do not confuse seasons, and what to do in each. Details below.
MarketWarnings: Spring On the Right side of Wall Street (Fall and Blood on the other)
Yes, serious--just on CNBC--breaking news. Can't find any other info. They said it was 2 "skinheads"
Anoddamouse/// I AM WOMAM...LLC in Finance...Got my hand out, but Hank hasn't notice yet.
102=numerological or something?
that include the target?
or is that how many bullets they were going to steal?
Relax. It's just the ATF working on their 2009 funding.
Neo-Nazi skinheads. Is that long for neo-con?
AP story on Obama and schoolkids murder plot.
102=IQ ATF agents?
hahahahah (Republican) Sen. Ted Stevens in Alaska found guilty on all seven counts of making false statements on his financial disclosure forms. He'll look great in his new orange jumper suit. lol
So if McPalin loses, can Palin be Sen?
Dirk van Dijk writes:
On the positive side, the recent dramatic rebound in the dollar will mean that the chinese crap is even cheaper.
Dirk van Dijk | 10.27.08 - 4:00 pm | #
Rebound? I think somebody forgot to put air in the ball.
European stuff converted from euros to USD might be getting cheaper. Stuff denominated in yuan - not so much.
The people in the Palin crowds think an assassination is when someone f-cks America in the ass...
I think we're safe from that bunch other than the cost on our society from their utter stupidity.
All talk just like most conservatives.
Whatev writes:
Yes, serious--just on CNBC--breaking news. Can't find any other info. They said it was 2 "skinheads"
2 skinheads from a county east of Memphis, Tn. (middle of nowhere). Planned to kill 80 black schoolchildren first to lure Obama. Great criminal minds at work
Actually the plot after Obama gets elected is much more scarier.
He is going to open the skies to Muslim an African paratroopers who will drop from the American sky late at night. Once on the ground they will scatter to selected white peoples homes where they will then break in.
They will then force the cowering homeowners to convert. Then to really spite them the TV's will be tuned to only 2 channels. Al-jazzera and NBA games.
I must have missed the memo. Can someone explain exactly why we need more WalMarts in the near future?
Anoddamoose writes:
re:plot to kill Obama. If true, that surprises me not a whit. There is a great deal of anger in those McCain/Palin crowds. Scary. Thank God they caught them.
Perhaps. But they're not going to catch all of them.
Sales tax too, which even minimum wage earners pay. 8.25% here in NYC.
Whatev writes:
hahahahah (Republican) Sen. Ted Stevens in Alaska found guilty on all seven counts of making false statements on his financial disclosure forms. He'll look great in his new orange jumper suit. lol
So if McPalin loses, can Palin be Sen?
Whatev | 10.27.08 - 4:39 pm | #
Sure. But nothing stopping Ted from serving from prison assuming he wins. It's happened before.
this is neither here nor there, but...
on the $SPX, we are only about 70 points away from the bottom of the tech implosion bear market.
crazy.
--
The economy is working on all cylinders (a phase not as commonly used these days as a decade or two ago). With the gear in the reverse!
Chair-moron Bernanke is known to be a horrible driver in reverse (I confess that I am not good at it too, but I know my limitations and egomaniacs like Greenspan and Bernanke don't).
Only a moron had faith in Greenspan and the same applies for Bernanke now. Maybe, we get the Fed Chair-morons we deserve.
Jas
dryfly writes:
Whatev writes:
hahahahah (Republican) Sen. Ted Stevens in Alaska found guilty on all seven counts of making false statements on his financial disclosure forms. He'll look great in his new orange jumper suit. lol
I hope that 80 year old man gets brutally gang raped all of his remaining days
We must have more Wal-Marts. It is part of the unknown post retirement boomers job program.
ATF: Plot to kill Obama is foiled - Decision '08- msnbc.com
This is no time to remodel the Wal-Mart.
Is the only thing that matters in the stock mkt the last 10 minutes?
My Good Deed of the day. I told the lunatic born-again Obama hater in my car pool that after Obama is elected he will announce the plan. This plan calls for building a National Mosque next to the Holocaust Museum. I think she believed me.
This is after she told me that at church Obama plans to stop all Christian broadcasting.
wal mart thread is really bring out the lefties. Oh teh noes!!!
The reality though, is that Ron Paul will get his limited government wish by default, not design. HA, that was funny. Default. Oh well one default is as good as another.
Lefties better get long cat food, and you righties best start praying that debt issuance doesn't hit 15%.
You all are worse than sheep, your whats for dinner.
at church she learned
ova-
good on ya.
your obama posts had me cracking up.
Anonymous,
joking about rape is bad form. wishing it on someone is being a bad person.
Please take those comments elsewhere. CR please consider deleting the comment.
Well, the news is not mentioning it but you know after Obama gets elected he will be appointing all "those" people to jobs.
Plus his half brother is burning christians insides their churches in Kenya. Just wait.
Keeping CR in touch with the political heartbeat of America
All of you who fear O taxing and taking...what about McSame buying up mortgages? or GW giving Trillions to WS bankers? Both parties are corrupt!
Meanwhile, gas is under $2 in a few places, just as Nov. 4 rolls around. Quelle coincidence!
$2.60 here in CA.
Crispy:
" ... the top fifth of earners currently pay 67% of all federal taxes -- including not just income taxes, but payroll taxes, corporate taxes and death taxes. The top 1% of earners pay 26% of all federal taxes."
WSJ 10/7/2008
The Rich Pay Their Fair Share - WSJ.com
If you don't have subscription I'll e-mail pdf. There are numerous studies on this point, assuming anyone is open minded enough to read them.
Speed writes:
Meanwhile, gas is under $2 in a few places, just as Nov. 4 rolls around. Quelle coincidence!
Speed | 10.27.08 - 4:51 pm | #
Who cares... ponies are still FREE!!!
Speed: the Saudi's have a deal with Bush/Cheney to take down the oil price in last 30 days of every pre-election. The deal was sealed and resealed each time held the hand of the Saudi king on their garden walks together.
Show me where 40% pay no taxes - that is not true. SS, Medicare, Sales Tax, Property Tax, GAs Tax, etc...
[Speed writes:
Meanwhile, gas is under $2 in a few places, just as Nov. 4 rolls around. Quelle coincidence!]
Yes, that is quite a "let's not rock the boat" sentiment generator for the J6Ps. Wouldn't be the first time.
Also, what percentage of the total income is earned by the top 1%? (BTW - I am in the top 1% and I could care less who wins)
after Obama gets elected he will be appointing all "those" people to jobs
Positive thought for the day!
Ayers might be better at bombing Iraq than Rumsfeld!
heres link Atlanta Metro News | ajc.com
Hhhhaaaaahahahahah, Broward Horne.
If you don't have subscription I'll e-mail pdf. There are numerous studies on this point, assuming anyone is open minded enough to read them.
Comrade Vistulian | Homepage | 10.27.08 - 4:52 pm | #
Comrade Vistulian are you familiar with the 'Willie Sutton' principle?
There are two ways to avoid taxes - don't have money or already be dead.
I suspect the "40%" are children, disabled, housewives, and retirees.
Comrade Vistulian,
Why read and inform ourselves? We feel and know whats right, because our two present day Pied Pipers tell us that the way we feel is more important than facts. Galileo, DaVinci, Copernicus, were all wonky pragmatists, just like these modern day truth spewers.
I hate all facts, unless spun from my political paradigm.
Down with facts!!
Up with feelings!!
Also, someone has to pay for the wars CONservatives want to wage and for "smoking them out"...who else is going to pay for this stupid plan?
crispy&cole writes:
Show me where 40% pay no taxes - that is not true. SS, Medicare, Sales Tax, Property Tax, GAs Tax, etc...
Obviously, everyone, even the unborn, pays taxes. Perhaps the point he is trying to make is that certain segments of taxpayers pay a disproportionate and unfair amount.
Comrade Vistulian:
You can also add the following to support your argument.
The American dream - on hold - (1) - FORTUNE
But as "crispy&cole" pointed out, what you and the authors of those 2 articles conveniently ignore are the "other" taxes paid - SS, Medicare, Sales Tax, Property Tax etc which ARE already a kind of FLAT Tax.
Would be interested in seeing research that takes ALL THE TAXES into account and present the data. Otherwise, it is trying to make the data fit an argument.
My 2 cents.
Countrywide screwed up a mortgage payment due to a .2cent error. Lucky I'm a payment ahead. These shysters never miss a trick, trying to con me into refinancing as well.
They want confidence, I want to feel confident too and seeing these jerks in orange jumpsuits behind bars is a start. Until then bah humbug for xmas.
The large architecture firm BSW architects which produced most of wal-mart's drawings abruptly went out of business last month. When I interviewed with them (did not take the job) years ago, they were churning out a full set of drawings for wal-mart in about 3 days, which is remarkable. This is a really big deal. Here's the link:
Closed firm's workers still awaiting paychecks [Tulsa World, Okla.] - BusinessWeek
crispy&cole writes:
"Also, what percentage of the total income is earned by the top 1%? (BTW - I am in the top 1% and I could care less who wins)"
Check the link I sent in earlier post, latest data (2205) is top 1% took in about 21% of income and paid 39% of Federal taxes. Seriously.
Agree on regerssive nature of sales taxes, but most of those are inflicted on State level, along with highly progressive income taxes (at least in CA where I live).
World stock markets stabilized, avoiding another day of sharp losses after some upbeat U.S. housing figures helped shares rally from early lows. Still, European indexes closed mostly lower on global growth worries.
Jeebus. I am not going to allow my taxes to go to feeding hungary kids, improving roads, or other such socialist nonsense.
I bet most of those kids are just faking it. Showing up at my kids school with their empty Spider Man lunch boxes. Heck, if we gave them money for food you know what they really spend it on. Candy! Or drugs!
Tell your Mommy to get a job kid. Or two like we did back in the day. She is just laying around watching Oprah is my guess. Having babies for money. We all know the type
Stop answering feel good political themes that people use to build resentment and shift focus from real issues and solutions with facts and logic. YOU STOP IT RIGHT NOW!!! Arghhhh.
ova-
are you my mother in law?
this is freaking me out.
Would be interested in seeing research that takes ALL THE TAXES into account and present the data. Otherwise, it is trying to make the data fit an argument.
My 2 cents.
Sril | 10.27.08 - 4:59 pm | #
Throw in 'user fees' too. As a small biz I pay plenty of 'user fees' I never get to use. Especially unemployment 'insurance' - pay it but can't lay myself off which I suppose is good 'cause otherwise I would (lol).
Plot to rob a gun store? As if guns were so difficult to acquire in this country. This makes no sense.
"Meanwhile, gas is under $2 in a few places, just as Nov. 4 rolls around. Quelle coincidence!"
At Costco, I passed a woman who said to her husband, "wow, do you remember the last time we could fill up the car for less than $50?"
I butted in and said, "why yes, it was exactly two years ago, before the mid-term elections." Quelle coincidence indeed!
leave for lunch - flat equities
come back from lunch
3% down move
ummm, 3% is still a pretty big move
heck 1 year ago it would have been a huge move
I hear Ted Stevens will be allowed to do community service in lieu of jail time.Seems the folks at ACORN are short of help.
Would be interested in seeing research that takes ALL THE TAXES into account and present the data. Otherwise, it is trying to make the data fit an argument.
My 2 cents.
Sril | 10.27.08 - 4:59 pm | #
Agree!
Also, why focus on income earned? Why not percentage of Net Worth? I would bet the top 1% of NW does not pay its fair share of all taxes (on a percentage basis).
IAU - COMEX Gold Trust
I am trying to figure out if buying IAU will be equivalent to buying "physical" gold.
Even if Barclays goes under, will my investment still be equivalent to the price of Gold? Does COMEX Gold Trust actually hold the exact amount of physical gold as required by the number of shares issued?
The profile in iShares COMEX Gold Trust (IAU): Overview seems to indicate they do.
Any thoughts?
There are two ways to avoid taxes - don't have money or already be dead.-dryfly
Too true. All you people worried about your taxes going up are forgetting that none of you will have any money. Relax! Sell everything before the end of the year and lock in the current tax rate on your awesome gains. Booyah!!
Lennar headed to zero.
Now 6 bucks plus.
Their advertising is getting increasingly desparate.
IBM that I jump in and out of every few years is now below 80. Think I'll put in a bid at 70 just to drive my stock broker crazy.
"churning out a full set of drawings for wal-mart mart in about 3 days"
I think Mike Brady worked for them in the 70's too;)
Sril writes:
No, Federal data includes payroll taxes.
The bitch about regressive sales taxes is mostly a state issue (OK, I know there is a Fed gas tax).
It is not cutting the data to fit. If we're talking about Federal tax policy then you have to look at Federal data.
Retards,
SS, Medicare, blah blah that you are claiming everyone (read: poor people) pays, are merely down payments on services these people have or will suck from the system.
They will reap benefits ten times their contribution.
Angry Saver writes:
I must have missed the memo. Can someone explain exactly why we need more WalMarts in the near future?
If WalMart is contracting, you can bet that hundreds of mom-and-pop businesses are going under. WalMart is way better positioned to whether the storm than most small businesses.
No, Nullpointer I am not. You know deep down inside what that man wants don't you. He wants to tax all the white middle class. Steal our money to feed them inner city ghetto kids and give them opprutunities! Opprotunities my ass. All they will do is drive out the suburbs and steal our hood ornaments. That and let them out of jail.
How many profitable stores can they build?
As of January 31, 2008, Wal-Mart operated 971 discount stores, 2,447 supercenters, 132 neighborhood markets, and 591 Sam�s Clubs in the United States; and 21 units in Argentina, 313 in Brazil, 305 in Canada, 149 in Costa Rica, 70 in El Salvador, 145 in Guatemala, 47 in Honduras, 394 in Japan, 1,023 in Mexico, 46 in Nicaragua, 54 in Puerto Rico, and 352 in the United Kingdom, as well as 202 stores through joint ventures in China.(yahoo)
My architect daughter would regard "designing" Walmarts as hell on earth. I rather think she'd prefer working as a cashier in one.
"Even if Barclays goes under, will my investment still be equivalent to the price of Gold?"
It will if the price of gold goes to zero.
Don't mistake holding bullion yourself for for being an unsecured creditor of a "gone under" entity. They are drastically different.
monta's ankle --
ummm, 3% is still a pretty big move
heck 1 year ago it would have been a huge move
Yeah, but with the VIX at 75, 3% is a random fluctuation.
The foreign markets are so much more fun these days.
I need to find a bookie that will takes bets on whether Stevens gets pardoned. Although you would probably get terrible odds if you were betting against prison time.
LOL @ nova. But nova, you should be scared at how well you imitate that line. Almost as if a piece of you is possessed. Imagine if it were to take over.
SS and Medicare are undunded by $43 trillion! Add that to the $10.6 trillion national debt and then we get the real picture of where we are at.
Those of us under 40 will never see any of that money, never! So I consider my contributions to it a Tax and not a contribution for some fuutre benefit I will receive.
My jeebus! Wake up. We lost control of all the sports except lacrosse and field hockey. C'mon. They don't call it the White House for nothing. Lets keep America Christian!
Conjure's Bodyguard writes:
"Stop answering feel good political themes that people use to build resentment and shift focus from real issues and solutions with facts and logic. YOU STOP IT RIGHT NOW!!! Arghhhh."
OK, sorry .... If I didn't respect this board I wouldn't even bother trying.
ova-
you forgot the women.
he wants the white women.
Of course he wants the white women. "They" always do.
hmmm, seems like Roubini is more than willing to enjoy a little bubble inflated sense of wealth too...
How Even Dr. Doom Got Caught Up In The Loft Bubble - The panic of '08 - Gawker
Angry Saver writes:
I must have missed the memo. Can someone explain exactly why we need more WalMarts in the near future?
I think that's the point so many people in the media are missing with the notion the TARP will "induce banks to lend."
Someone with a business plan has to be pulling on the other end of the lending string.
What would it be? Another Pizza Hut in the Inland Empire? Nail salons in Florida strip malls? Another square foot of retail space, pretty much anywhere?
For those of you that want to argue about income taxes
SOI Tax Stats - Individual Statistical Tables by Size of Adjusted Gross Income
Tonight something big blows up. I can smell it in the air. Either that or someone over microwaved their popcorn again.
ova-
somebody skimming these comments later tonight is gonna get the wrong idea....
crispy&cole,
you said you were in top 1%. You will be means tested out anyway.
You pay, but sadly (or not, maybe you are wealthy) no play. Multiply that times 60, divide that by the fact your money (taxes) will never reach the beneficiaries you want to reach under any of these two presidential buffoons, and you will soon realize that even though you WANTED to help, the system just won't let you.
Letter from Government:
Crispy&cole,
Thank you for the money. We used it to fund peanut research and purchase a new orbital weapons platform. Can't wait for next year.
Thanks in advance!!
Government
I can channel the Obama stuff so easily because it so close to the surface in Virginia. Just got drop a few "code words" and listen.
"Those of us under 40 will never see any of that money, never So I consider my contributions to it a Tax"
They need the majority to believe and accept this, and when you do, that's when it'll be confiscated. You make a fine sheeple...bahahahaha
"SS and Medicare are undunded by $43 trillion! ...
Those of us under 40 will never see any of that money, never!"
You're smarter than that, c&c.
Since Social Security is essentially pay-as-you go, it's not going away. It may have the benefits cut, but it won't go away.
Medicare is screwed, although that's primarily a symptom of our entire health care system being completely broken.
"nova writes:
I can channel the Obama stuff so easily because it so close to the surface in Virginia. Just got drop a few "code words" and listen."
You mean like, "Arab?"
monta's ankle - I thought Roubini's pimped-out pad was pretty dawn funny the first 3 times, but am I the only one sick of hearing about his giant vaginal wall art, or whatever that actually is?
They need the majority to believe and accept this, and when you do, that's when it'll be confiscated. You make a fine sheeple...bahahahaha
rps | 10.27.08 - 5:16 pm | #
I has been used to balance the budget for 20+ years...sheeple? look in the mirror
*It
The problem with raising taxes is that corporations will just raise their prices and pass it along. The non-taxed will end up paying anyways.
Don't you think Obama knows this?
This country is over $53 trillion in the hole, that money will never be paid back.
The goose is cooked, both parties are to blame - the sheeple are anyone who votes for either party thinking they will solve this fiscal mess.
Schnapstafarian agree with you. Whoever is behind that site is really sleazy and this crap has no place here. Monta's ankle, there should be enough economic or finance news to talk about.
I am fascinated by this GOP meme that McCain would not raise taxes.
Mac supports the trillion dollar Iraq war, the trillion dollar Wall Street bailout, the insurance sector bail out, the Fannie/Freddie bailout, the Detroit bailout and the idea of "stabilizing house prices". Let's peg that at another trillion or two.
Sooo.... where is the money coming from? Does he have a leprechaun stashed around somewhere?
Ok, since no one is going to answer my question, let me do that for you.
Yes.
Have you seen who is friends and donors are? Really, though, it is a brilliant plan.
Whatev writes:
The problem with raising taxes is that corporations will just raise their prices and pass it along...
Still no problem. See, you guys have deflation. So rising prices are good, see. In fact in a preverse way it could fix all your problems.
Suck it up, tax whiners. You're going to get universal health care, better schools and roads, and less military intervention. Welcome to the 21st century.
Who cares, thanks for that link. Had no idea that info was so easily available on the IRS website.
The problem with raising taxes is that corporations will just raise their prices and pass it along. The non-taxed will end up paying anyways.
Or they just move. It's interesting to watch the Canadian provinces jockey to become the first with the first negative corporate tax rate.
I forgot that CR was now a politics blog.
Another high yeild CD just got kicked back after the order was filled...just like what happened to me with silver state bank.
FDIC seems to close off brokered CDs on the way to taking over the show.
This time, it's tomato bank...put 'er on the watch list..
crispy&cole writes:
SS and Medicare are undunded by $43 trillion! Add that to the $10.6 trillion national debt and then we get the real picture of where we are at.
and a negative trade balance (tells you someting about economic competitivness),
and yah, nowbody needs your #1 export article (famous AAA-rated crap) anymore.
It's not just the debt-hole, it's your economiy setup (bloated finance industry, dying manufacturing and ...)
Karelian,Palin is the Tax expert on the Team.She has announced that she will eliminate the deficit and balance the budget in her first term by eliminating the death and capital gains taxes...
sterlingerl writes:
Suck it up, tax whiners. You're going to get universal health care,
I doubt it.
better schools
More tax money results in "better schools"? What an amusing claim.
And their out of the gate...into the first turn and, it's lucky lady ahead, and, wait, oh no! Down goes NZ! Down goes Frazier! Down goes lucky lady!
"I am fascinated by this GOP meme that McCain would not raise taxes."
Maybe he wouldn't. But the next pres in office would have to, with a gun to his/her head. To pay for the Iraq war, etc. etc.
Classic kick-the-can-down-the-road politics. It's all about the American people subsidizing the American empire. Which doesn't report to them.
3goldens,
No problem. Just promise you won't litter the comments with Rep v Dem trash. These comments are a great source of info when political leanings have been checked at the door.
OT, sorry long.
i got a call today from the NPR marketplace segment, they want to do a fluff piece on economic costumuing for haloween after seeing our zombiecon pics relating to wall st.
a non economic colleague and i will be doing our interview tomorrow, don't know when or if it airs. i maybe using my mercury john alias.
background -
Zombies Take Manhattan - Gothamist
Costume Network Gallery :: Zombiecon 2008 :: CostumeJimPics_158
here is a video segment
YouTube - Baptism of Blood- Wall Street Bull
i'm writing talking points and would love to use some of the gang's ideas, critiques and costume concepts.
rough draft-
costume ideas-
"many of us will be zombie bankers" hopefully he will know what a zombie bank is, if not i'll clarify without embarrassing him. "we're striving for a Zombie Interest Rate Policy, or ZIRP, a policy that needs brains, because it has none. as you can see from what happened to Japan for the last 12 deflationary years."
"a bloody golden parachute worn by a tuxedo'ed Billionaire for Bailouts Ceo being chased by a horde of pitchfork wielding Joe the farmers."
"my macroeconomic adviser friend, Alan Greenspend, told me he will be going as the ghost of FASB rule 157, or level 2 and 3 asset accounting, something to do with mark to market of highly leveraged derivatives. but he's geeky like that".
"an ATM that spits out IOU's."
reflective quote "costumes are a way for folks to express their darkest fears, to take ownership of them and perhaps provide hope through release, which i think we all need in these times."
"i like scary costumes and the scariest thing i could think up is that the planet only has 60 trillion of gdp, the derivative market is about 600 trillion, i'm still working on that costume concept."
and the capper for the piece, "i know at our after party we will have some hotties going as the ghosts of naked short selling." which is quite true.
All the indexes softened up nicely to keep that round-the-clock international open season on selling intact.
The problem with raising taxes is that corporations will just raise their prices and pass it along. The non-taxed will end up paying anyways.
Not in a deflationary environment, they won't. Actually, this has been an issue for awhile, and has periodically been cited as an explanation for "downward pressure on earnings". Or, why people have been purchasing Apple stock in recent years, but not those of automobile manufacturers. Apple can pass on costs, Ford, GM and Chrysler cannot.
Richard--what does deflation have to do with raising prices?
Richard Estes writes:
The problem with raising taxes is that corporations will just raise their prices and pass it along. The non-taxed will end up paying anyways.
Not in a deflationary environment, they won't. Actually, this has been an issue for awhile, and has periodically been cited as an explanation for "downward pressure on earnings". Or, why people have been purchasing Apple stock in recent years, but not those of automobile manufacturers. Apple can pass on costs, Ford, GM and Chrysler cannot.
Instead, Ford, GM and Chrysler will layoff workers to cut costs to pay their taxes.
That'll be better, right?
serf greenspend-
i particularly like this one:
"i like scary costumes and the scariest thing i could think up is that the planet only has 60 trillion of gdp, the derivative market is about 600 trillion, i'm still working on that costume concept."
The goose is cooked, both parties are to blame - the sheeple are anyone who votes for either party thinking they will solve this fiscal mess.
crispy&cole | Homepage | 10.27.08 - 5:23 pm | #
AMEN!!!
sterlingerl writes:
"Suck it up, tax whiners. You're going to get universal health care, better schools and roads, and less military intervention. Welcome to the 21st century."
Great (even if true) but then lets leave behind the exploding public employee 20th century style (er defined benefit, COLA protected) entitlements. If you live in San Diego you know what I mean.
If we're all comrades, then let all the new retainers learn to save and take the same risks as the rest of the soon-to-be regulated masses.
And when is tax policy not about economics?
C broke and held its Oct. 10th low. Is Citi seriously at risk of going under? At what stock price would the FDIC/Treasury step in?
And when is tax policy not about economics?
Comrade Vistulian | Homepage | 10.27.08 - 5:42 pm | #
Right on CV
how bout we just get to about 15% off the 2002 lows already, the suspense is killing the krill.
So when GM and Chrysler merge, and then fail together, what happens to their pensioners? Federal Pension Guarantee Corp. steps into pick up the slack, right? And then more firms fail, and they tell two friends, and they tell too friends...
Sooner or later we've got single payer.
"If we're all comrades, then let all the new retainers learn to save and take the same risks as the rest of the soon-to-be regulated masses."
I'll be around in 20 years, though creaky, and I expect there to be no public employment pension plans nor old-age health care plans operating at that time. They'll all have imploded and been rolled in to SS/MC via some mechanism that just might be as creaky and weird as the current bailouts.
Tried to vote early today at the local library in North Palm Beach County. Couldn't find a place to park although I went at two different times.
The snow birds have arrived in droves early to cast their votes. I have never seen so many Mercedes' and BMW's circling around looking for places to park. Florida politics is so distorted by Northerners who have changed their residency for tax purposes. Hopefully they are not voting twice. They have cars registered here and cars registered where they live. It does not take any effort to get a dulicate license.
I can not imagine that they are more concerned about politics where tey reside in the winter than where they reside for the remaining months of the year. The Repbulicans should not talk about voter fraud. It is rampant within their well healed regular residents. Most of these folks will return home and then be back after Christmas or Thanksgiving.
ew thread
Who cares---what you said and absolutely agree. I value this site greatly for all I've learned about finance/investing/econ.
Instead, Ford, GM and Chrysler will layoff workers to cut costs to pay their taxes.
That'll be better, right?
rcc | 10.27.08 - 5:39 pm | #
You are assuming "either/or" binary outcomes, when the range is much more varied along horizontal and vertical axes.
For example, a company might pay higher taxes without laying people off if the company is still profitable, but less so. It might instead mean less money for dividends, which would be a good tradeoff, if the money that would have gone to dividends actually went to government spending that benefitted the lower 50% of the populace in terms of income, because that would go right into consumption. In other words, a tradeoff of dividends for stimulus would be worth making.
Or, it could mean less money available for investment in new technologies. That would be bad, but could be addressed through specified tax breaks for this activity.
Or, it could mean the preservation of government expenditures for services that the business requires to carry on its operations, roads, various forms of infrastructure. Basically, those aspects of society that corporations outsource to the the government. Paying less tax, suffering the degradation of the quality of this infrastructure wouldn't be good either, because it impairs the ability of the corporation to produce and deliver goods to the consumer.
Vertically, there is the question, already alluded to in regards to lower income people, as to whether the government expenditure from the tax results in income growth more generally throughout the society. Paying more taxes, but experiencing an expanding market, would be good.
I mention these things not as certain outcomes, because circumstances vary, but to observe that invocations of things like, higher taxes = passed on to consumer, or higher taxes = less jobs, doesn't provide much illumination. If higher taxes were always bad, why is it that states with some of the highest tax rates (NY, CA, etc.), and, hence, most developed infrastructure, seem to have historically performed than regions that have perpetually advertised their low taxes (the Deep South)?
"SS and Medicare are undunded by $43 trillion! Add that to the $10.6 trillion national debt and then we get the real picture of where we are at."
Underfunded because the revenues over the years were spent instead of saved or invested.
I hope that 80 year old man gets brutally all of his remaining days
Anonymous | 10.27.08 - 4:43 pm | #
He'll be washing golf balls for the Generals at Eglin AFB, FL
crispy&cole wrote:
SS?
Medicare?
Site a source for the 40% paying no income tax? Or just repeat of the conservative talking points?
crispy turn your attention to the following:
The Tax Foundation - New Data: Top 1% Pay Greater Dollar Amount in Income Taxes to Federal Government than Bottom 90%
Comrade Vistulian, I agree with you on the taxation thingie. It is hard to talk to the Party Apparatchiks here or anywhere for that matter. They drink the cool aid so eagerly.
To quote Thomas Paine: "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."
"crispy&cole writes:
"first of all the bottom 40% of wage earners dont pay any tax"
SS?
Medicare?
Site a source for the 40% paying no income tax? Or just repeat of the conservative talking points?"
The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data
"If we're all comrades, then let all the new retainers learn to save and take the same risks as the rest of the soon-to-be regulated masses."
Socialism never works that way. The governing class is always protected.
This thread's close to dead, but to those of you interested in getting REAL data on income and tax distribution, check out the recent book "American Century" by Fischer and Hout.
For you fellow geeks, Google "Tom Petska" AND SOI. Tom is director of the IRS Statistics of Income Division and has written many excellent papers on distribution of income tax with charts and tables that CR would envy.
Whew! Just finished skimming this thread.
So why are Paulson and Kashkari plotting to kill Obama? Just because he'll raise taxes on Walmart shotguns?
Is this inflationary or deflationary?
crispy and cole @ 5:08- not to be rude, but if you are in the top 1%, as you claim, why would you care if you "never see any of that money"? Is it that much of a burn?
" But nothing stopping Ted from serving from prison assuming he wins. It's happened before."
Sure, drug dealers, gang lords and mob chieftains set the model for that. Stevens will probably feel right at home.
Seriously, though, PBS noted that the government made "so many mistakes" in presenting their case, that Stevens will have lots of grounds on which to base an appeal.
Gee, now that's a surprise. A stealth pardon.
I wish they'd spend some of that money to replace the manufacturing jobs that stole from this country.
c&c- p.s.- you should consider yourself lucky and be proud of your service to the country, even if it is f*cked-up
@DK,
Do you watch South Park? You remind me of the townsfolk in the episode about immigrants from the future. "They took our jobs!"
Obama Bombshell Redistribution of Wealth Audio Uncovered YouTube - Obama Bombshell Redistribution of Wealth Audio Uncovered
We are so screwed . This guy reminds me of Hitler or at least what I've heard about him . Disclaimer I've never met Hitler
let us all pray
(boy's load the guns)
Sears' ad indicates big post-Thanksgiving bargains - Oct. 27, 2008
Black Friday: Deep discounts coming
Ad showing Sears' planned sales for the day after Thanksgiving include a Kenmore washer-dryer set for $600, up to 60% off on clothing and bargains on flatscreen TVs.
(Flatscreen TV sales will beat expectations but not much else.)