What a Whore... =)
With the I-Bank business model kaput I think that another Broker/Dealer coming in is unlikely (why can't they all get a 50% haircut?). Why not have a foreign bank with the Fed taking on its bonds. Wells Fargo is for Wamu IMO. This was the rumor all the way back in January and I think the mechanisms are set in place ie a Wamu exit strategy.
Goldman Sachs won't buy Lehman Goldman Sachs won't buy Lehman: report - MarketWatch
BOSTON (MarketWatch) -- Goldman Sachs is not pursuing a deal to acquire troubled Lehman Brothers due in part to concerns that merging the two investment banks would be too difficult, Reuters reported Thursday. Lehman shares are off more than 70% this week after the company pre-announced third-quarter results and said it expects to lose nearly $4 billion. Buying Lehman would be a risky move for Goldman, especially as the credit crunch continues to play out, according to Reuters, which cited sources familiar with the situatio
Well, sure, so do I. We're two years away from having our mortgage paid off. Maybe the taxpayers should pick up the payment for the next 24 months just to even things out a little bit between Wall Street and Main Street.
So the plan is to consolidate down to a couple of megabanks and then nationalize them? Is that the plan because there is no way in god's green earth that BofA is a going concern if they take on Lehman's while still trying to digest Countryfried. This is economic chaos. Plus, we all know that Bernanke will be taking the bulk of Lehman's crap onto the Fed.'s books with BofA taking only the first "Billion" in losses, etc. Rinse, wash, repeat indeed.
Is that the plan because there is no way in god's green earth that BofA is a going concern if they take on Lehman's while still trying to digest Countryfried.
Plan? The only plan here is "After we rob the US Treasury, all of that can get away will meet again in Dubai in ten years. Every man for himself."
What a bunch of crap - let them fail and have a bunch of millionaire Wall Street types selling apples on street corners. It is the only way to teach these slimeballs some humility and force them to stop voting Republican.
So the plan is to consolidate down to a couple of megabanks and then nationalize them? Is that the plan because there is no way in god's green earth that BofA is a going concern if they take on Lehman's while still trying to digest Countryfried.
They needed to come up with a good rumor, and this was the best they could do.
Stop knocking it. You got any better rumors?
I commend BAC for letting themselves be included in rumors.
Lehman is a shambling insolvent mess that will almost certainly BK unless someone buys them. However, how can buying them ever be profitable to a company?
If Lehman, with its collection of assets and liabilities, cannot be long for this world, then how can it ever be made profitable by a third party?
I mean, say Lehman lost $500 million. Isn't any merger just a decision of how to split those losses between the buyer and Lehman (i.e. the buyer buys at a discount, thus Lehman shareholders take some losses from the discount while buyer takes the rest of the losses)?
Are deals like this predicated on the Fed/FDIC "helping out"? If so, why bother merging Lehman if you can simply bail them out?
Basically, how could something like this ever be profitable to BoA?
BAC just reabsorbed its outstanding auction rate securities in a settlement with the SEC. It's buying back 4.5 billion dollars worth. That's gotta hurt. Where will they get the purchase money for Lehman?
Maybe they are being paid $4.5 billion to buy Lehman.
"Bank of America, which is holding preliminary discussions about a transaction, appeared to be Lehman's best hope on Thursday afternoon. BofA may only do a Lehman deal if it is encouraged by the federal government':
PRELIMINARY discussion
best HOPE
on thursday afternoon (at 3.30 pm)
sounds like an idea for a 10 minutes day trade, not news (and they sure dumped quickly over $4.10)
Re: LEH
Much drama and rumors tomorrow followed by catered Chinese food on Saturday and the Sunday Afternoon Bailout (TM) just before market open in Tokyo.
See? Conjure's not the only one that can predict the future.
You do the goof again. "own them" should be "get it".
Dasvidanya,
You know what Misean,
I'll take Putin's leadership right now over these moronic,lying, scumbag, thieving, idiots, seriously. At least he's the smartest guy in the room and would actually protect AMERICAN INTERESTS and we could at least stop pretending to be anything but a Socialized Police State/world bully. Ugggghhhhhhhhhh.
BAC is buying LEH for $3-4/share in BAC stock - seems like thats what the market is telling us.
Also seems like the market is telling us that WFC will buy WM in a fed assisted deal for about $3/share in WFC stock.
Lets see what happens....
We will have to do anything our Chinese bankers tell us to do and they seem perfectly willing to keep sending their not so well made stuff for our bad paper so as to keep their restless and ever growing workforce employed.
Anonymous writes:
BAC is buying LEH for $3-4/share in BAC stock - seems like thats what the market is telling us.
" seems like the market is telling us that WFC will buy WM in a fed assisted deal for about $3/share in WFC stock.
Lets see what happens...."
Exactly: let us see what HAPPENS
... these guys need to sit down with ice on their head and write 2000 times: "repeating somthing does not make it true..."
Might as well just buy treasuries until that bubble bursts too.
The yield curve looks like a mathematical inverse asymptotic plot line. That just cannot be right. Why would anyone be buying 10/30 yr for income and maturity? That's plain crazy. Rates crash and you get redeemed, rates rise and you are locked in for decades or take big losses. Looks like the fast money is trading 10 year and 30 year sardines.
Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf said the financial crisis is presenting the bank with more acquisition opportunities.
"I would not be averse to a Fed-assisted transaction," Stumpf said in a recent interview with the San Francisco Business Times. "Fixer-uppers don't bother us."
That was Wells Fargo, but I'm sure every CEO is thinking the same thing. Stumpf was just willing to say it.
Of course all the readers here are open to an assisted transaction too!
I don't know how the data could ever be assimilated, but it would be great to know how many folks, who on solid financial footing, are actually considering defaulting on their mortgage or other debts to be eligible for a bailout.
I have two separate in-laws who are giving it some thought. One may talk to a debt counselor. Interesting thing is, except for her ridiculous mortgage payment, she has no debt and is just looking for principal reduction.
We also know an attorney (friend of said sister-in-law) who is defaulting on his mortgage. My understanding is that he does well financially. He and his family are moving into an apartment.
I can't help but think this will create more defaults, but I really don't get it. I am surprised every day at the events that are construed as good news. It's very surreal.
I know how to fix this. Let's elect one of the Keating Five to run the country. He no doubt learned a lot about the mortgage industry while cashing their checks and running interference for them in the Senate.
"At least he's the smartest guy in the room and would actually protect AMERICAN INTERESTS and we could at least stop pretending to be anything but a Socialized Police State/world bully."
Socialization of corporate losses = Corporatist/Fascist. This is a much more accurate description, and Mish banned me for simply mildly pointing this out. He doesn't take well to diverging viewpoints.
LEH has a bank. Watch for FHLB system to be tapped; treasury put in place that line for the system. Would be a subtle way for the BAC takeout. BAC buys them swaps some colateral and presto added to Treasury bill.
Ken Lewis is skting on dangerous ice...he thinks he is the icon for saving the system but he will soon be sitting squarely next to Greenspan as yet anotyher of the banksters
Anonymous,
Funny you posted that because I was going to use the word Fascist as well but the Nazi's kind of made that word permanently sound a little more extreme than it's meant to be. But clearly the slide from an Oligarchy to a Facist State is well under way. Plato spelled out our slide from a Republic/Democracy to where we are now in "The Republic". It's a little sobering to go from "theory" to "reality" thought, isn't?
The most amazing thing about the entire collapse of the financial system is how no one in any position of power is doing the right thing. Absolutely incredible.
The most amazing thing about the entire collapse of the financial system is how no one in any position of power is doing the right thing. Absolutely incredible.
Political expediency and spin trump any thought of "doing the right thing" at this point. Doing the right thing would literally mean the resignation of hundreds of our highest ranking Federal Authorities, the ousting of hundreds of CEO's and letting companies actually fail for real. Dream on.
MR writes:
"Only a matter of time before the US starts monetizing its debt, and the presses fire up. Pressure from the electorate will flatten all resistance."
I've been waiting a year for this. . .I fear the market and the government may stay irrational longer than I can stay in the market.
BINGO - it always lasts longer than I thought possible.
The Treasury Department, Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Christopher Cox and senior SEC staff are monitoring markets and are in contact regularly with market participants, a spokeswoman and spokesman said. They declined to comment specifically on Lehman. A Federal Reserve Bank of New York spokesman declined to comment.
Now look at the headline: Uncle Sam may help backstop banks.
The SEC is ALWAYS in contact with market participants. They declined to comment on Lehman. Also, the SEC is not the Fed or Treasury.
Marketwatch's entire revenue is from PUMP MONKEYS. They have a huge PUMP MONKEY bias. I know you know this.
My only solace is in knowing that my distant forebears saw this coming and established Constitutional limits on power to assure that Our Federation was prohibited from intervening. Thank you Founding Fathers. Without you we'd be no more than another rouge state making up laws of convenience.
"The details are not finalized, but sources familiar with the matter say the purchase is expected to be completed and announced this weekend before Asian markets open Monday morning."
""There's still an element of doubt in terms of confidence of the financial players, and that's not going to go away just with the bailing out of Bear Stearns and the bailing out of the GSEs," said Michael Kastner"
Da! It's going to take bailing out WaMu, DSL, Wachovia, WF, BoA, GS, and The Big Three Corpses...erm...Auto Makers...And that's just the second inning.
WaMu 5-yr CDS "now reflect a cost of $4.5 million to protect $10 million in bonds against default...Which is basically insane it's a bet on default, really." While the risk costs associated with Merrill and Wachovia, etc, are also dramatically higher. Oh. Yeah, Lehman too.
My only solace is in knowing that my distant forebears saw this coming and established Constitutional limits on power to assure that Our Federation was prohibited from intervening. Thank you Founding Fathers. Without you we'd be no more than another rouge state making up laws of convenience.
King Hamilton is laughing at me from his grave.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 09.11.08 - 5:42 pm | #
The only problem is that, like the Geneva Convention, the GOP thinks the Constitution is "quant"
I'll take Putin's leadership right now over these moronic,lying, scumbag, thieving, idiots, seriously. At least he's the smartest guy in the room and would actually protect AMERICAN INTERESTS and we could at least stop pretending to be anything but a Socialized Police State/world bully.
Just as an aside, don't ask for King Stork unless you want King Stork.
More important, don't ask for King Stork unless you want to be ruled by King Stork when he's a rheumy eyed idiot 30 years past his prime, only to find that the king is dumber than the W and lives to 98, and thereafter, 19 generals and fashion models all crown themselves King Stork and legitimate their rule through force of arms.
The only thing worth than a Republic is all the other forms of gvt, and civil wars + dotage rule + incompetent succession is a hazard that is not precisely on the human timescale. Trust me that it sucks.
Perhaps BAC buying LEH would be a way to get the Fed to backstop the CFC purchase seriptiously.
Fed provides BSC type deal to BAC for LEH, and then BAC can also use the Fed support to backstop losses on CFC.
BAC in a sense makes itself 'too big to fail' and gets the gov to implicitly or explicitly help it with it's potential losses on LEH and most likely real loses on CFC.
Wash. Post at 5.30
"What we're going to need to see is at least one quarter where the financial institutions don't show write-downs and do show profits and an ability to grow their business."
is the bottom line I would care to remember.
the AH 5.30 pm "knee-jerk" did not last-so far (source: my eyes)
fuld is so concerned about having participation on the upside give him 98% of the equity in the bad bank with an employee buy in opiton. Collateralize his loan with persoanl assets. Wonder if he might change his mind
A rescue a week gives Paulson plenty of time to take care of every problem corporation before a regime change in January even if he takes Thanksgiving and Christmas weekends off.
Wait until President Bush starts signing the pardons and you will really see some great fireworks.
The end of the Bush rein will certainly go down in history books along with the Great Depression, The Fall of the Roman Empire, and the collapse of the British Empire.
If this is similar to the LTCM wind-down in 2000, it would be OK by me. According to Wikipedia's page on the subject, the Federal govt put zero money into that reorg. They just got players in a meeting and got them to split the thing up.
The only thing worth than a Republic is all the other forms of gvt, and civil wars + dotage rule + incompetent succession is a hazard that is not precisely on the human timescale. Trust me that it sucks.
Agreed, but where is this "Republic" that you speak of? All I see is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Posing as a Republic is the temporary facade for a new fascist state that is trying to consolidate its gains is what I see (see McCain, John). That is "where we're at". Reality bites hard, watch.
How far are we from a systemic implosion? It certainly appears that a Lehman deal can't get done without govi support. WaMu is right behind and then the FDIC. Oh boy...
PALIN: I believe that there is a plan for this world and that plan for this world is for good. I believe that there is great hope and great potential for every country to be able to live and be protected with inalienable rights that I believe are God-given, Charlie, and I believe that those are the rights to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That, in my world view, is a grand -- the grand plan.
Ot but on topic-So many intelligent people/posters on this blog have given me a great economic education.
Thanks...
Nova-I'm with you...I'm disgusted to no end..I can't even sit here and think about it...
I want a revolution worse than a million dollars...
Currency in latin means to flow..
I just never thought I would see the day when it flows from an 88 year old lady trying to survive this moment to greedy fucking bankers..I'm reasonable but now I'm getting really close to my hatfield and Mccoy ancestors...
No news but WFC strong all day and ending up 7% was signalling something. Bought WM at 2.14 around 830a because the feds have to get it to safe harbor, but the coming relief rallies have to be sold.
friardaddy said: "The most amazing thing about the entire collapse of the financial system is how no one in any position of power is doing the right thing. Absolutely incredible."
Something else pretty amazing. Millions of houses are still being sold and millions of mortgages are still being made, on favorable terms and at low interest rates.
"Basically, how could something like this ever be profitable to BoA?"
Someday when the credit flows like wine and beautiful women flock, offering low-interest credit cards, cash back auto leases, 0$-down on 3000sq McMansions in the desert that only go up in price, BoA will be sitting pretty. Just a few decades for people to forget about risk and then an emerging nation with a central bank willing to buy US treasuries to keep interest rates low and stimulate US demand (meanwhile ignoring more lucrative demand from China, India and other developed countries), and BoA will look like a real genius.
Palin recently said that the war in Iraq is "God's task." She's even admitted she hasn't thought about the war muchjust last year she was quoted saying, "I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq." 1, 2
Palin has actively sought the support of the fringe Alaska Independence Party. Six months ago, Palin told members of the groupwho advocate for a vote on secession from the unionto "keep up the good work" and "wished the party luck on what she called its 'inspiring convention.'" 3
Palin wants to teach creationism in public schools. She hasn't made clear whether she thinks evolution is a fact.4
Palin doesn't believe that humans contribute to global warming. Speaking about climate change, she said, "I'm not one though who would attribute it to being manmade." 5
Palin has close ties to Big Oil. Her inauguration was even sponsored by BP. 6
Palin is extremely anti-choice. She doesn't even support abortion in the case of rape or incest. 7
Palin opposes comprehensive sex-ed in public schools. She's said she will only support abstinence-only approaches. 8
As mayor, Palin tried to ban books from the library. Palin asked the library how she might go about banning books because some had inappropriate language in themshocking the librarian, Mary Ellen Baker. According to Time, "news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor." 9
She DID support the Bridge to Nowhere (before she opposed it). Palin claimed that she said "thanks, but no thanks" to the infamous Bridge to Nowhere. But in 2006, Palin supported the project repeatedly, saying that Alaska should take advantage of earmarks "while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist." 10
When Gibson said if under the NATO treaty, the United States would have to go to war if Russia again invaded Georgia, Palin responded: "Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called upon and help.
"And we've got to keep an eye on Russia. For Russia to have exerted such pressure in terms of invading a smaller democratic country, unprovoked, is unacceptable," she told Gibson.
Mel said: "And many CEOs are still making out like bandits!"
Hey, I hear you. However, corporate looting and questionable government economic policy responses don't add up to a crash of the system, however much the media might like us to believe it does.
Maybe they can't be sold. Bear had no liquidity but was solvent. That can of worms can be purchased. Lehman is insolvent but has liquidity. That can be kept on the heart/lung machine for a few weeks. BofA, what in the heck are you doing?
No goof ball, because of all of it the whole financial combination plate we all get this year...U ordered it I didn't, so eat your beans and rice so you can get fat off tomorrows future today..
Is there going to be a bale out of every week now? The US is a officially a joke now. Americans can now get off their high horse about preaching to other countries how an economy and market should be run. Many American officials/economists couldn't help themselves advising the Japanese to take their losses but its most definitely do as I say not as I do right? Bueller? Bueller?
how would you characterize AIG, LEH, and Wamu losing 50-75% of market cap in three days?"
A stock market event. What of it? WMT, JNJ, and BUD didn't. What are we to make of that? That the economy is going down the tubes...but Walmart will still be open, and we'll be able to buy shampoo and beer just like always?))
I want a revolution worse than a million dollars...
My professional advice as a student of illin' nations -- this is an illness you fight with organization. There is nothing here worth a war.
Not in the internally castrated modern ethics of hypoglycemic "war is never worth it". I mean, from a strict technical standpoint, there's no good war aim. It's not about forcing a succession or gaining local autonomy, it's about state apparatus reform.
This is about getting a bureaucracy that works. That is something you achieve through cultural means. You need to encourage ethics and cultural change and judicial reform. Not activities that war is very good at.
Even if you are 100% for war, you need to develop a successor state apparatus you can plug in where and when you displace the dominant regime's state structure.
That means you need a fully developed thesis of rule and people that support it as legitimate. Lead with a working solution, not a gun. You can always cap people, there's never been a day that wasn't good for killing. Once you lose the working state apparatus, though, it's like you never had it at all.
Soap box, ballot box, jury box. Ammo box is after all the above.
The Sarah Palin Digest," ThinkProgress, September 4, 2008
NC
NC: All your anti-Palin propaganda (whether correct or not) will not prevent the Dems from clinching defeat from the jaws of victory again. It's amazing to me how this party can lose presidential election even under the most favorable circumstances (Bush historic unpopularity, way more spending power, economic crisis,...). But lose they will. I'm amazed.
O-Joe
optimistic joe wrote
All your anti-Palin propaganda (whether correct or not) will not prevent the Dems from clinching defeat from the jaws of victory again. It's amazing to me how this party can lose presidential election even under the most favorable circumstances
hey joe
the people decide...dont you respect the voters?
they are choosing the war hero who saved their freedom in vietnam, and the moose skinner over some "upitty" (their word not mine) african american who would talk to people we would like to bomb.
ps. im unclear how winning or loosing in vietnam saved or lost us our freedom? im willing to listen to the other side on this, and realize i may be wrong????
sickdoom,
bailing out banks/fannie etc that made created crazy mbs trading vehicles, loads of money, had horrible underwriters etc is not gold or oil...
this is about tax dollars being committed to financial Manson's..
feel free to give them your money..your house etc...
what about all the people who have lost homes, hope, jobs, lives, peace and vision....
I could care less about money and I bleed red white and blue, yet now all the government thinks I and everyone else bleeds green....
I will say best of luck to you and your family..
Seb too, I'm mad cause I have a daughter and no one seems to care about what's happening around us...
Optimistic-Joe writes:
NC: All your anti-Palin propaganda"
1- it s not mine (not my site)
2- it is not propaganda if the sources can (easily be verified-unlike the rumors we are being buttered with every day)- it is called FACTs or DATA.
3-it is not even my "finding", this is circulating thoughout the entire planet (my Australian cousins have seen it too)
her "bridge to nowhere" statement was a lie (and during an acceptance speech!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) I just think it is unthinkable to even dare doing something like that. It is called "lying by omission" as opposed to a simple omission... and if she cannot tell the difference then I have issues with her intellect.
... and yes, she made a really bad impression on me (as in "Blink" see Malcom Gladwell)so I cannot help it anyway... until she shows she can think out side of reading a script (like a telemarketer)
Palin May Move to Block Subpoenas in Trooper Case Alaska Lawmakers Demand Testimony by Palin's Husband, Aides - Bloomberg.com
A top law enforcement official in Alaska Governor Sarah Palin's administration is considering steps to block a legislative probe into allegations she improperly fired the state's No. 1 police official .......
Even with talks they are in a very bad place, the gov't is not going to bail them out. Sorry to say but the once mighty and powerful Lehman brothers is worth more in pieces then as a whole. Liquidation is the best choice.
And so the saga continues...
I really miss those days when the biggest issue on this site was arguing with Sebastian as to whether we were in a recession.
Watching the financial infrastructure crumble and seeing the equally inept Treasury/Fed/Government response is disheartening.
Does anybody have Fuld's and Paulson's phone numbers? I will buy Lehman if the Fed will take any losses.
BAC is like Mikey from the life cereal commercials. Sell it to Jamie, he will buy anything.
awgee writes:
Does anybody have Fuld's and Paulson's phone numbers? I will buy Lehman if the Fed will take any losses.
Get in line.
A trillion here, a trillion there.. pretty soon it starts to add up to real money.
Good day Comrades. Now all we need is a glorious 5 year plan.
Dasvidanya,
What a Whore... =)
With the I-Bank business model kaput I think that another Broker/Dealer coming in is unlikely (why can't they all get a 50% haircut?). Why not have a foreign bank with the Fed taking on its bonds. Wells Fargo is for Wamu IMO. This was the rumor all the way back in January and I think the mechanisms are set in place ie a Wamu exit strategy.
Goldman Sachs won't buy Lehman
Goldman Sachs won't buy Lehman: report - MarketWatch
BOSTON (MarketWatch) -- Goldman Sachs is not pursuing a deal to acquire troubled Lehman Brothers due in part to concerns that merging the two investment banks would be too difficult, Reuters reported Thursday. Lehman shares are off more than 70% this week after the company pre-announced third-quarter results and said it expects to lose nearly $4 billion. Buying Lehman would be a risky move for Goldman, especially as the credit crunch continues to play out, according to Reuters, which cited sources familiar with the situatio
If you combine "Bank of America" and "Lehman Brothers" and rearrange the letters, we have:
A barbarian flesh choker moment
"Everyone wants the JPM / Bear deal structure.
Well, sure, so do I. We're two years away from having our mortgage paid off. Maybe the taxpayers should pick up the payment for the next 24 months just to even things out a little bit between Wall Street and Main Street.
So the plan is to consolidate down to a couple of megabanks and then nationalize them? Is that the plan because there is no way in god's green earth that BofA is a going concern if they take on Lehman's while still trying to digest Countryfried. This is economic chaos. Plus, we all know that Bernanke will be taking the bulk of Lehman's crap onto the Fed.'s books with BofA taking only the first "Billion" in losses, etc. Rinse, wash, repeat indeed.
"Donald Trump Buys 55,000 Trump Entertain Shares"
"Ivanka Trump Buys 50,000 Trump Entertain Shares"
She couldn't come up with another 5 grand?
Why doesn't CNBC talk about this bozzo?. I wonder.
@ perhaps maybe
I think you are mixing up Ken Lewis (ceo of BAC) and Jamie Dimon (ceo of JPM).
BAC bot CFC. possible buyer of LEH
JPM bot BSC. Bid on WM (got rejected by x-ceo of wm) b/f buying/bailing out BSC.
Wasn't Lewis the one who said he's had all the fun in investment banking he can take a few years back...
Is that the plan because there is no way in god's green earth that BofA is a going concern if they take on Lehman's while still trying to digest Countryfried.
Plan? The only plan here is "After we rob the US Treasury, all of that can get away will meet again in Dubai in ten years. Every man for himself."
BAC just reabsorbed its outstanding auction rate securities in a settlement with the SEC. It's buying back 4.5 billion dollars worth. Bank of America to buy back $4.5B in auction-rate securities - BostonHerald.com
That's gotta hurt. Where will they get the purchase money for Lehman?
What a bunch of crap - let them fail and have a bunch of millionaire Wall Street types selling apples on street corners. It is the only way to teach these slimeballs some humility and force them to stop voting Republican.
They needed to come up with a good rumor, and this was the best they could do.
Stop knocking it. You got any better rumors?
I commend BAC for letting themselves be included in rumors.
Where will they get the purchase money for Lehman?
Lehman will finance it.
Comrade Jacob Hess,
"If you combine "Bank of America" and "Lehman Brothers"If you combine "Bank of America" and "Lehman Brothers""
You make joke? At the expense of the Great State? Hmmmmm...
BTW:
Bank of Brothers
Lehman America
Dasvidanya,
I noticed my goof as soon as I posted, but does it really matter anymore? Ultimately you and me own them in the end.
New FRB H3 figures just released.
Non-borrowed reserves shrank by a couple billion, now at -122 billion No significant changes, as far as I can see.
I don't understand this: can someone explain?
Lehman is a shambling insolvent mess that will almost certainly BK unless someone buys them. However, how can buying them ever be profitable to a company?
If Lehman, with its collection of assets and liabilities, cannot be long for this world, then how can it ever be made profitable by a third party?
I mean, say Lehman lost $500 million. Isn't any merger just a decision of how to split those losses between the buyer and Lehman (i.e. the buyer buys at a discount, thus Lehman shareholders take some losses from the discount while buyer takes the rest of the losses)?
Are deals like this predicated on the Fed/FDIC "helping out"? If so, why bother merging Lehman if you can simply bail them out?
Basically, how could something like this ever be profitable to BoA?
Maybe they are being paid $4.5 billion to buy Lehman.
They're shopping themselves around like a $5 hooker. Who's next on their list, Little Jimmy and his ant farm?
"Everyone wants the JPM / Bear deal structure."
Surprise surprise.
The US Government wouldn't know what moral hazard is if it jumped up and bit them in the ass.
"Bank of America, which is holding preliminary discussions about a transaction, appeared to be Lehman's best hope on Thursday afternoon. BofA may only do a Lehman deal if it is encouraged by the federal government':
sounds like an idea for a 10 minutes day trade, not news (and they sure dumped quickly over $4.10)
Comrade PerhapsMaybe,
"Ultimately you and me own them in the end."
You do the goof again. "own them" should be "get it".
Dasvidanya,
Bolivia to Expel US Ambassador
Bolivia to Expel US Ambassador - TIME
Too bad, he must have seen this YouTube -
Now the army will have to go in.
Re: LEH
Much drama and rumors tomorrow followed by catered Chinese food on Saturday and the Sunday Afternoon Bailout (TM) just before market open in Tokyo.
See? Conjure's not the only one that can predict the future.
ciaran o'kelley ain't gonna like this
400 visitors, I smell an intervention.
Geopolitics writes:
Bolivia to Expel US Ambassador
What, he tried to pay his liquor bill at "Lefty's del Bolivar" in US dollars and they arrested him for passing bad paper?
Jacob..........
ya have too much time on your hands.....
I said above :
"sounds like an idea for a 10 minutes day trade"
... say what??? but the "news" was only out after hours?? says J6P
....like I said before, forget the news, watch the 1 min. charts (XLF etc...)
If the Treasury backstops a Lehman deal, then we need to organize a new Boston Tea party! Enough already!
Comrade PerhapsMaybe,
"Ultimately you and me own them in the end."
You do the goof again. "own them" should be "get it".
Dasvidanya,
You know what Misean,
I'll take Putin's leadership right now over these moronic,lying, scumbag, thieving, idiots, seriously. At least he's the smartest guy in the room and would actually protect AMERICAN INTERESTS and we could at least stop pretending to be anything but a Socialized Police State/world bully. Ugggghhhhhhhhhh.
Using appropriate force persuade Bolivia to buy LEH.
BAC is buying LEH for $3-4/share in BAC stock - seems like thats what the market is telling us.
Also seems like the market is telling us that WFC will buy WM in a fed assisted deal for about $3/share in WFC stock.
Lets see what happens....
orrr
featherbrains benchmark moola
Comrades,
"But potential buyers remain wary about plugging holes"
And about getting there's plugged as well.
Cheers,
"400 visitors, I smell an intervention."
I smell a Friday rally.
Financial equities will be (already are?) worthless as this saga continues.
Might as well just buy treasuries until that bubble bursts too.
We are facing a category 5 crisis right now.
I smell a Friday rally.
I smell a pile of festering sh#t, period.
We will have to do anything our Chinese bankers tell us to do and they seem perfectly willing to keep sending their not so well made stuff for our bad paper so as to keep their restless and ever growing workforce employed.
Dollar Rises to One-Year High Against Euro on Global Outlook
Dollar Rises to One-Year High Against Euro on Global Outlook - Bloomberg.com
Gold hammered again, down to $740/oz, and silver to just over $10/oz. The former down 25% from peak, the latter down 50% from peak.
This is not a good sign, with hedge funds dumping faster than sheiks and Asians can buy.
Everyone moving to cash, too myopic or desperate to realize that soon cash will be toilet paper.
Only a matter of time before the US starts monetizing its debt, and the presses fire up. Pressure from the electorate will flatten all resistance.
The SWF's and CB's are edging away from financing us, as unobtrusively as they can.
Anonymous writes:
BAC is buying LEH for $3-4/share in BAC stock - seems like thats what the market is telling us.
" seems like the market is telling us that WFC will buy WM in a fed assisted deal for about $3/share in WFC stock.
Lets see what happens...."
Exactly: let us see what HAPPENS
... these guys need to sit down with ice on their head and write 2000 times: "repeating somthing does not make it true..."
Might as well just buy treasuries until that bubble bursts too.
The yield curve looks like a mathematical inverse asymptotic plot line. That just cannot be right. Why would anyone be buying 10/30 yr for income and maturity? That's plain crazy. Rates crash and you get redeemed, rates rise and you are locked in for decades or take big losses. Looks like the fast money is trading 10 year and 30 year sardines.
THE FED/TREASURY ARE FINISHED WITH BAILOUTS
THE MARKET WILL REALIZE THIS SOON
THEY HAVE RINGFENCED AND PROTECTED THE MORTGAGE MARKET
EVERYONE ELSE IS NOW ON THEIR OWN
LEH IS GONE
SO IS WAMU
Comrade jms,
"I'll take Putin's leadership right now"
Our glorious leaders are patient, understanding men. But that could put you in the gulag.
Cheers,
Hey what are y'all doin with your shares of Fannie? I'm looking forward to the eventual Payout, which I'm told is 'in the mail'
Goodie! Now I get to own some Lehman! My portfolio is growing daily and its almost like I'm not even doing anything
Josiphos - who needs shares of fannie when the government wants you to live in your house for free?
I smell a Friday rally.
I thought the Calculated Risk Hightened Visitor Indicator only started kicking in at around 600 people?
Bolivia to Expel US Ambassador
Yeah, here's the money quote:
"Without fear of the [U.S.] empire, I stand before the Bolivian people today..."
There's gonna be a LOT of this is the near future. The US is reeling and its military tied up in two losing occupations.
Lichtenstein will declare war on us.
I am going to take a break from reading the blogs etc. Why? Because it makes me so angry. Not only that there is nothing you can do.
Call your congressman? LOL
Call your Senator? LOL
I've moved our money into T-bills. I have a supply of food, water, and money. I got the home invader repellant (Ruger).
We are so screwed. really, really, really.
Comrades,
I can just see Fuld standing on the corner of Wall and Broad, hat in hand, asking passersby for a buck or two.
Dasvidanya,
Here is a quote from March:
Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf said the financial crisis is presenting the bank with more acquisition opportunities.
"I would not be averse to a Fed-assisted transaction," Stumpf said in a recent interview with the San Francisco Business Times. "Fixer-uppers don't bother us."
That was Wells Fargo, but I'm sure every CEO is thinking the same thing. Stumpf was just willing to say it.
Of course all the readers here are open to an assisted transaction too!
Best to all.
OT
Re: Freezing Foreclosures (earlier blog entry)
I don't know how the data could ever be assimilated, but it would be great to know how many folks, who on solid financial footing, are actually considering defaulting on their mortgage or other debts to be eligible for a bailout.
I have two separate in-laws who are giving it some thought. One may talk to a debt counselor. Interesting thing is, except for her ridiculous mortgage payment, she has no debt and is just looking for principal reduction.
We also know an attorney (friend of said sister-in-law) who is defaulting on his mortgage. My understanding is that he does well financially. He and his family are moving into an apartment.
I can't help but think this will create more defaults, but I really don't get it. I am surprised every day at the events that are construed as good news. It's very surreal.
Just let Lehman float nipples up and move on already.
Plenty more nipples will be turning up in the near future anyway............
Comrade unirealist,
"Lichtenstein will declare war on us."
LOL
Dasvidanya,
Rob Dawg writes:
A trillion here, a trillion there.. pretty soon it starts to add up to real money.
Don't laugh. Yesterday, I was wondering how long it will take to get to a quadrillion.
Now, if I could just find that new Zimbabwe bill that is equal to a quadrillion.
Everyone wants the JPM / Bear deal structure.
Define "everyone".
Comrade Nemo,
Define "everyone".
Everyone in this case means the executive officers of very large financial institutions who have very good political connections.
Dasvidanya,
I know how to fix this. Let's elect one of the Keating Five to run the country. He no doubt learned a lot about the mortgage industry while cashing their checks and running interference for them in the Senate.
George Carlin said it best.
US bigger Dck Foreign Policy goes something like this "WHAT??! They have bigger Dcks?.. Bomb Them!"
RIP G.C.
Is Lehman the sacrifical goat?
That should be the question- if they are- does the rest of the world then panic out of the dollar?
I am beginning to think this crisis is uncontainable.
Someday this war's gonna end...
xman-look at this..read and weep...
Uncle Sam may help backstop losses
front page marketwatch....
BAC or one of it's subsidaries?
I wonder if Lehman's bondholders will let it happen after the 'plan' to backrupt CFC and short it's bondholders.
"At least he's the smartest guy in the room and would actually protect AMERICAN INTERESTS and we could at least stop pretending to be anything but a Socialized Police State/world bully."
Socialization of corporate losses = Corporatist/Fascist. This is a much more accurate description, and Mish banned me for simply mildly pointing this out. He doesn't take well to diverging viewpoints.
LEH has a bank. Watch for FHLB system to be tapped; treasury put in place that line for the system. Would be a subtle way for the BAC takeout. BAC buys them swaps some colateral and presto added to Treasury bill.
Ken Lewis is skting on dangerous ice...he thinks he is the icon for saving the system but he will soon be sitting squarely next to Greenspan as yet anotyher of the banksters
"Only a matter of time before the US starts monetizing its debt, and the presses fire up. Pressure from the electorate will flatten all resistance."
I've been waiting a year for this. . .I fear the market and the government may stay irrational longer than I can stay in the market.
Anonymous,
Funny you posted that because I was going to use the word Fascist as well but the Nazi's kind of made that word permanently sound a little more extreme than it's meant to be. But clearly the slide from an Oligarchy to a Facist State is well under way. Plato spelled out our slide from a Republic/Democracy to where we are now in "The Republic". It's a little sobering to go from "theory" to "reality" thought, isn't?
The most amazing thing about the entire collapse of the financial system is how no one in any position of power is doing the right thing. Absolutely incredible.
AllenM aka Joliet Jake writes:
I am beginning to think this crisis is uncontainable.
I am beginning to think this crisis is unsustainable.
B of A = Bagholder of America
friardaddy said: "... no one in any position of power is doing the right thing."
And to think we have the best politicians money can buy....
The most amazing thing about the entire collapse of the financial system is how no one in any position of power is doing the right thing. Absolutely incredible.
Political expediency and spin trump any thought of "doing the right thing" at this point. Doing the right thing would literally mean the resignation of hundreds of our highest ranking Federal Authorities, the ousting of hundreds of CEO's and letting companies actually fail for real. Dream on.
With "Lehman Brothers" and "Bank of America" we also get the anagram:
A Barbarian Feces Honker Lot
Comrades,
If the Gov't/FR backstop this thing, every time Hanky or B.S. Bernutty have a CONgang hearing or press conference this music should be playing:
YouTube - FAMU 2006 Thunder and Blazes
Davidanya,
fed/treasury engineering takeover of LEHMAN!
MR writes:
"Only a matter of time before the US starts monetizing its debt, and the presses fire up. Pressure from the electorate will flatten all resistance."
I've been waiting a year for this. . .I fear the market and the government may stay irrational longer than I can stay in the market.
BINGO - it always lasts longer than I thought possible.
WaPo Repaorts Tres & Fed negotiating a dead with LEH & private equity. To happen before Asian Markets open Monday.
Any guesses (maybe I missed this in an earlier thread) as to why the markets jumped in the last half hour? (Please no half-baked PPT theories.)
The only thing I can think of was an expected resolution to LEH overnight. Was there a piece of news I didn't see?
US Government to Arrange sale of LEH
on washington post
cd--
look at this paragraph from the article:
The Treasury Department, Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Christopher Cox and senior SEC staff are monitoring markets and are in contact regularly with market participants, a spokeswoman and spokesman said. They declined to comment specifically on Lehman. A Federal Reserve Bank of New York spokesman declined to comment.
Now look at the headline: Uncle Sam may help backstop banks.
The SEC is ALWAYS in contact with market participants. They declined to comment on Lehman. Also, the SEC is not the Fed or Treasury.
Marketwatch's entire revenue is from PUMP MONKEYS. They have a huge PUMP MONKEY bias. I know you know this.
Just remember who told you.
My only solace is in knowing that my distant forebears saw this coming and established Constitutional limits on power to assure that Our Federation was prohibited from intervening. Thank you Founding Fathers. Without you we'd be no more than another rouge state making up laws of convenience.
King Hamilton is laughing at me from his grave.
upticks on AH started at 17.32pm (?)
looks like "they " are going to be "fooling around" for a while
"The Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve are engineering a sale of Lehman Brothers through a consortium of private firms."
U.S. Helps Lehman Go Up for Sale - washingtonpost.com
"The details are not finalized, but sources familiar with the matter say the purchase is expected to be completed and announced this weekend before Asian markets open Monday morning."
washingtonpost.com
"The Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve are engineering a sale of Lehman Brothers through a consortium of private firms."
We're all TBTF now!
I realize
and respect
that this web site belongs to CR and Tanta
last night i read a post from MP indicating that he was no longer able to read or post at CR?
is this a software glitch or the result of a sanction
does anyone know?
Comrades,
""There's still an element of doubt in terms of confidence of the financial players, and that's not going to go away just with the bailing out of Bear Stearns and the bailing out of the GSEs," said Michael Kastner"
Da! It's going to take bailing out WaMu, DSL, Wachovia, WF, BoA, GS, and The Big Three Corpses...erm...Auto Makers...And that's just the second inning.
Dasvidanya,
No sources on Wamu story. NO SOURCES. Were they Treasury sources? Or counterparty sources.
We don't know, do we?
Sorry, WaPo story, not Wamu.
WaMu 5-yr CDS "now reflect a cost of $4.5 million to protect $10 million in bonds against default...Which is basically insane it's a bet on default, really." While the risk costs associated with Merrill and Wachovia, etc, are also dramatically higher. Oh. Yeah, Lehman too.
FYI: Debt is now being monitized with the Fannie and Freddy take over.
You just don't know it yet.
My only solace is in knowing that my distant forebears saw this coming and established Constitutional limits on power to assure that Our Federation was prohibited from intervening. Thank you Founding Fathers. Without you we'd be no more than another rouge state making up laws of convenience.
King Hamilton is laughing at me from his grave.
Rob Dawg | Homepage | 09.11.08 - 5:42 pm | #
The only problem is that, like the Geneva Convention, the GOP thinks the Constitution is "quant"
I'll take Putin's leadership right now over these moronic,lying, scumbag, thieving, idiots, seriously. At least he's the smartest guy in the room and would actually protect AMERICAN INTERESTS and we could at least stop pretending to be anything but a Socialized Police State/world bully.
Just as an aside, don't ask for King Stork unless you want King Stork.
More important, don't ask for King Stork unless you want to be ruled by King Stork when he's a rheumy eyed idiot 30 years past his prime, only to find that the king is dumber than the W and lives to 98, and thereafter, 19 generals and fashion models all crown themselves King Stork and legitimate their rule through force of arms.
The only thing worth than a Republic is all the other forms of gvt, and civil wars + dotage rule + incompetent succession is a hazard that is not precisely on the human timescale. Trust me that it sucks.
Thank you Founding Fathers. Without you we'd be no more than another rouge state making up laws of convenience.
Nice, even if unintentional
"only to find that the king is dumber than the W"
Should be:
"only to find that his successor is dumber than the W"
Perhaps BAC buying LEH would be a way to get the Fed to backstop the CFC purchase seriptiously.
Fed provides BSC type deal to BAC for LEH, and then BAC can also use the Fed support to backstop losses on CFC.
BAC in a sense makes itself 'too big to fail' and gets the gov to implicitly or explicitly help it with it's potential losses on LEH and most likely real loses on CFC.
Comrade Dirk van Dijk,
"The only problem is that, like the Geneva Convention, the GOP thinks the Constitution is "quant""
Yep, and the dumborats don't even know there's words after the preamble.
Dasvidanya,
LEHMAN’S STRUGGLES - DealBook Blog - NYTimes.com
Does Congress do anything anymore, or is this just a freeform of chaos where Paulson does whatever the fuck he feels like?
Wash. Post at 5.30
"What we're going to need to see is at least one quarter where the financial institutions don't show write-downs and do show profits and an ability to grow their business."
is the bottom line I would care to remember.
the AH 5.30 pm "knee-jerk" did not last-so far (source: my eyes)
Wamu is slip-slidin away.
Who in their right mind would hold Wamu after Sheila Hour (8:00 EST or so) on Friday?
fuld is so concerned about having participation on the upside give him 98% of the equity in the bad bank with an employee buy in opiton. Collateralize his loan with persoanl assets. Wonder if he might change his mind
A rescue a week gives Paulson plenty of time to take care of every problem corporation before a regime change in January even if he takes Thanksgiving and Christmas weekends off.
Wait until President Bush starts signing the pardons and you will really see some great fireworks.
The end of the Bush rein will certainly go down in history books along with the Great Depression, The Fall of the Roman Empire, and the collapse of the British Empire.
If this is similar to the LTCM wind-down in 2000, it would be OK by me. According to Wikipedia's page on the subject, the Federal govt put zero money into that reorg. They just got players in a meeting and got them to split the thing up.
Anyway, nice try (pump) ahead of PPI and RETAIL sales tomorrow at 8.30
"King Hamilton is laughing at me from his grave."
Exactly. I was about to give you crap for your misplaced sense of confidence in the Founders/Constitution until I read that last sentence. Bravo!
The only thing worth than a Republic is all the other forms of gvt, and civil wars + dotage rule + incompetent succession is a hazard that is not precisely on the human timescale. Trust me that it sucks.
Agreed, but where is this "Republic" that you speak of? All I see is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Posing as a Republic is the temporary facade for a new fascist state that is trying to consolidate its gains is what I see (see McCain, John). That is "where we're at". Reality bites hard, watch.
I'm not suprised the Feds are involved in LEH. After all, three minute speed dating didn't work to find them a partner.
Also vist Leftys Cuba, Leftys North Korea, and the famous Leftys Albania. We only expand into countrys with a sound banking system.
How far are we from a systemic implosion? It certainly appears that a Lehman deal can't get done without govi support. WaMu is right behind and then the FDIC. Oh boy...
The Palin Interview - The World Newser
PALIN: I believe that there is a plan for this world and that plan for this world is for good. I believe that there is great hope and great potential for every country to be able to live and be protected with inalienable rights that I believe are God-given, Charlie, and I believe that those are the rights to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That, in my world view, is a grand -- the grand plan.
That, in my world view, is a grand -- the grand plan.
Could you be more generic?
-- John Oliver
Ot but on topic-So many intelligent people/posters on this blog have given me a great economic education.
Thanks...
Nova-I'm with you...I'm disgusted to no end..I can't even sit here and think about it...
I want a revolution worse than a million dollars...
Currency in latin means to flow..
I just never thought I would see the day when it flows from an 88 year old lady trying to survive this moment to greedy fucking bankers..I'm reasonable but now I'm getting really close to my hatfield and Mccoy ancestors...
I'm ready to fight....
That's gotta hurt. Where will they get the purchase money for Lehman?
It doen't take that much money to buy penny stocks...
Comrade Boat52,
"The Fall of the Roman Empire"
Well, OK, as long as we actually have a hoard of Visigoths sack Warshington D.C.
Dasvidanya,
Palin has a Grand Plan?
Does it include Alaska and Russia?
Cramer just memtioned Bizzaro World. Sorry, the TV was on by accident.
awgee writes:
Does anybody have Fuld's and Paulson's phone numbers? I will buy Lehman if the Fed will take any losses.
1-900-BAILOUT
And remember to talk dirty. Use words like "moral" and "hazard" and "unprotected".
@Doggy:
No news but WFC strong all day and ending up 7% was signalling something. Bought WM at 2.14 around 830a because the feds have to get it to safe harbor, but the coming relief rallies have to be sold.
Comrade Quincy k,
"Palin has a Grand Plan?"
Da! In the college debate world we called a plan like that "Glod Solves".
Mostly pointing that a plan was a "Glod Solves" plan was enough to win the round.
Dasvidanya,
friardaddy said: "The most amazing thing about the entire collapse of the financial system is how no one in any position of power is doing the right thing. Absolutely incredible."
Something else pretty amazing. Millions of houses are still being sold and millions of mortgages are still being made, on favorable terms and at low interest rates.
Not bad for a total collapse of the system.
Sebastia
cd
i empathize with you
i'm not into revolution
but sure am itchin for some trials and long prison terms
add to that fines that take their net worth
sebastian,
a major investment bank is now calling for a 50% fall in California...
please. stop.
Not bad for a total collapse of the system.
Sebastian
And many CEOs are still making out like bandits!
"Basically, how could something like this ever be profitable to BoA?"
Someday when the credit flows like wine and beautiful women flock, offering low-interest credit cards, cash back auto leases, 0$-down on 3000sq McMansions in the desert that only go up in price, BoA will be sitting pretty. Just a few decades for people to forget about risk and then an emerging nation with a central bank willing to buy US treasuries to keep interest rates low and stimulate US demand (meanwhile ignoring more lucrative demand from China, India and other developed countries), and BoA will look like a real genius.
Sebastian
where heck have you been?
receivership?
Comrade Sebastian,
Back in the Soviet Union, we had two words for people like you. The first one was "Useful".
Dasvidanya,
The US is gonna have to start selling nukes to Iran just to return to solvency.
Re: WaPo article.
I don't believe it for a second.
In the DC world, Ben and Hank have both signaled that LEH is to be thrown to the lions, as a sacrifice.
I put this in the same category as KDB and Nomura buying them.
x-man writes:
sebastian,
a major investment bank is now calling for a 50% fall in California...
please. stop.
Chinese walls at this investment bank @ ankle height
The Palin Interview :
She seems to go with the famous expression:
"why look where you are going, you will have plenty of time to see when you get there"
But to know where you are going it helps to look where you have been:
Think Progress
» The Sarah Palin Digest
Palin recently said that the war in Iraq is "God's task." She's even admitted she hasn't thought about the war muchjust last year she was quoted saying, "I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq." 1, 2
Palin has actively sought the support of the fringe Alaska Independence Party. Six months ago, Palin told members of the groupwho advocate for a vote on secession from the unionto "keep up the good work" and "wished the party luck on what she called its 'inspiring convention.'" 3
Palin wants to teach creationism in public schools. She hasn't made clear whether she thinks evolution is a fact.4
Palin doesn't believe that humans contribute to global warming. Speaking about climate change, she said, "I'm not one though who would attribute it to being manmade." 5
Palin has close ties to Big Oil. Her inauguration was even sponsored by BP. 6
Palin is extremely anti-choice. She doesn't even support abortion in the case of rape or incest. 7
Palin opposes comprehensive sex-ed in public schools. She's said she will only support abstinence-only approaches. 8
As mayor, Palin tried to ban books from the library. Palin asked the library how she might go about banning books because some had inappropriate language in themshocking the librarian, Mary Ellen Baker. According to Time, "news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor." 9
She DID support the Bridge to Nowhere (before she opposed it). Palin claimed that she said "thanks, but no thanks" to the infamous Bridge to Nowhere. But in 2006, Palin supported the project repeatedly, saying that Alaska should take advantage of earmarks "while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist." 10
Sources
1. "Palin: Iraq war 'a task that is from God'," Associated Press, September 3, 2008
The article requested is no longer available.
2. "Palin wasn't 'really focused much' on the Iraq war," ThinkProgress, August 30, 2008
Think Progress » Palin wasn’t ‘really focused much’ on the Iraq war, wanted ‘an exit plan in place.’
3. "The Sarah Palin Digest," ThinkProgress, September 4, 2008
Think Progress
» The Sarah Palin Digest
4. "McCain and Palin differ on issues," Associated Press, September 3, 2008
The article requested is no longer available.
5. Ibid
6. The Sarah Palin Digest," ThinkProgress, September 4, 2008
Think Progress
» The Sarah Palin Digest
7. Ibid
8. Ibid.
9. "Mayor Palin: A Rough Record," Time, September 2, 2008
Mayor Palin: A Rough Record - TIME
10. The Sarah Palin Digest," ThinkProgress, September 4, 2008
Palin Takes Hard Line on National Security, Softens Stance on Global Warming - ABC News
When Gibson said if under the NATO treaty, the United States would have to go to war if Russia again invaded Georgia, Palin responded: "Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called upon and help.
"And we've got to keep an eye on Russia. For Russia to have exerted such pressure in terms of invading a smaller democratic country, unprovoked, is unacceptable," she told Gibson.
Seb-
I've been fai to you in the past regarding it's nice to here how the bull talks and walks this financial hurricane...
Today your bullshit is just what it is..
I'm sure your news station doesn't carry what is happening in the financial world but let me give you my take..
Our govt. is fucking ruining our children's future.. If you can't see it your blindness must be attributed to wearing your pants over your brain...
move on...
Palin is second banana--and no worse than the main man. She is a diversion.
Mel said: "And many CEOs are still making out like bandits!"
Hey, I hear you. However, corporate looting and questionable government economic policy responses don't add up to a crash of the system, however much the media might like us to believe it does.
Sebastia
Sebastian,
standing too close from that tree, can't see the forest?
cd writes:
Our govt. is fucking ruining our children's future..
The end is near..., and all this because of LEH...
(
NC
all good points
but she's cute
can skin a moose
and she was for the bridgne to nowhere before she was against it
and is at least as qualified as dubya
so what's the problem?
Maybe they can't be sold. Bear had no liquidity but was solvent. That can of worms can be purchased. Lehman is insolvent but has liquidity. That can be kept on the heart/lung machine for a few weeks. BofA, what in the heck are you doing?
Mel writes:
Palin is second banana--and no worse than the main man. She is a diversion."
nothing is a "good" diversio
Oh, and I would take Dimon over Lewis any day in a mano-o-mano octagon death match.
sebatian
half a million jobs lost in half a year
are out outta your mind???
cd said: "I'm sure your news station doesn't carry what is happening in the financial world but let me give you my take..."
My news sources are the same as everyone else's, but as even Tanta has explained they aren't to be trusted to give us either truth or wisdom.
S.
I got the home invader repellant (Ruger).
Buy one of their shotguns, and saw off the barrels.
Sickdoom..
No goof ball, because of all of it the whole financial combination plate we all get this year...U ordered it I didn't, so eat your beans and rice so you can get fat off tomorrows future today..
Go back to your hole now..It's light outside...
ok sebastian turns up just as MP disappears!!!
coincidence?
seb,
how would you characterize AIG, LEH, and Wamu losing 50-75% of market cap in three days?
how would you characterize AIG, LEH, and Wamu losing 50-75% of market cap in three days?
A buying opportunity!
Is there going to be a bale out of every week now? The US is a officially a joke now. Americans can now get off their high horse about preaching to other countries how an economy and market should be run. Many American officials/economists couldn't help themselves advising the Japanese to take their losses but its most definitely do as I say not as I do right? Bueller? Bueller?
bail not bale, obviously.
x-man said: "seb,
how would you characterize AIG, LEH, and Wamu losing 50-75% of market cap in three days?"
A stock market event. What of it? WMT, JNJ, and BUD didn't. What are we to make of that? That the economy is going down the tubes...but Walmart will still be open, and we'll be able to buy shampoo and beer just like always?
))
Sebastia
heard no outcry as oil, gold etc. went down...
Sebastian
BUD prices are going up very significantly next week
BUD prices are going up very significantly next week
... the beer, not the stock
NC said: "BUD prices are going up very significantly next week
... the beer, not the stock"
I'm a wine-drinker, but thanks for the heads-up.
))
S.
@cd:
Platos allegory is completely wrong then? All the people are escaped prisoners except me. I'm in the cave. Right...
cd:
I want a revolution worse than a million dollars...
My professional advice as a student of illin' nations -- this is an illness you fight with organization. There is nothing here worth a war.
Not in the internally castrated modern ethics of hypoglycemic "war is never worth it". I mean, from a strict technical standpoint, there's no good war aim. It's not about forcing a succession or gaining local autonomy, it's about state apparatus reform.
This is about getting a bureaucracy that works. That is something you achieve through cultural means. You need to encourage ethics and cultural change and judicial reform. Not activities that war is very good at.
Even if you are 100% for war, you need to develop a successor state apparatus you can plug in where and when you displace the dominant regime's state structure.
That means you need a fully developed thesis of rule and people that support it as legitimate. Lead with a working solution, not a gun. You can always cap people, there's never been a day that wasn't good for killing. Once you lose the working state apparatus, though, it's like you never had it at all.
Soap box, ballot box, jury box. Ammo box is after all the above.
mock turtle writes:
NC
all good points
but she's cute
can skin a moose
and she was for the bridgne to nowhere before she was against it
and is at least as qualified as dubya
so what's the problem?"
NC
NC: All your anti-Palin propaganda (whether correct or not) will not prevent the Dems from clinching defeat from the jaws of victory again. It's amazing to me how this party can lose presidential election even under the most favorable circumstances (Bush historic unpopularity, way more spending power, economic crisis,...). But lose they will. I'm amazed.
O-Joe
Sickdoom writes:
heard no outcry as oil, gold etc. went down...
Sickdoom | 09.11.08 - 6:41 pm | #
hhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllppppppp
mmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeee
iiiiiimmmmm fffffaaaaallllliiiiinnnnngggg
optimistic joe wrote
All your anti-Palin propaganda (whether correct or not) will not prevent the Dems from clinching defeat from the jaws of victory again. It's amazing to me how this party can lose presidential election even under the most favorable circumstances
hey joe
the people decide...dont you respect the voters?
they are choosing the war hero who saved their freedom in vietnam, and the moose skinner over some "upitty" (their word not mine) african american who would talk to people we would like to bomb.
ps. im unclear how winning or loosing in vietnam saved or lost us our freedom? im willing to listen to the other side on this, and realize i may be wrong????
sickdoom,
bailing out banks/fannie etc that made created crazy mbs trading vehicles, loads of money, had horrible underwriters etc is not gold or oil...
this is about tax dollars being committed to financial Manson's..
feel free to give them your money..your house etc...
what about all the people who have lost homes, hope, jobs, lives, peace and vision....
I could care less about money and I bleed red white and blue, yet now all the government thinks I and everyone else bleeds green....
I will say best of luck to you and your family..
Seb too, I'm mad cause I have a daughter and no one seems to care about what's happening around us...
Optimistic-Joe writes:
NC: All your anti-Palin propaganda"
1- it s not mine (not my site)
2- it is not propaganda if the sources can (easily be verified-unlike the rumors we are being buttered with every day)- it is called FACTs or DATA.
3-it is not even my "finding", this is circulating thoughout the entire planet (my Australian cousins have seen it too)
her "bridge to nowhere" statement was a lie (and during an acceptance speech!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) I just think it is unthinkable to even dare doing something like that. It is called "lying by omission" as opposed to a simple omission... and if she cannot tell the difference then I have issues with her intellect.
... and yes, she made a really bad impression on me (as in "Blink" see Malcom Gladwell)so I cannot help it anyway... until she shows she can think out side of reading a script (like a telemarketer)
mock turtle writes:
"african american "
...so yo guys are not yet "color blind"?
Old joe
Palin is a sailboat without a mast...
I believe you will be wrong come november...
wait until Biden rips her apart in debate...
Think of it this way...Would you rather have Biden talking to China, Russia and South America or Palin..
They all have better looking women available in thier countries so all they will do is sneer and laugh....
She is the Brittany Spears of Govt...
Palin May Move to Block Subpoenas in Trooper Case
Alaska Lawmakers Demand Testimony by Palin's Husband, Aides - Bloomberg.com
A top law enforcement official in Alaska Governor Sarah Palin's administration is considering steps to block a legislative probe into allegations she improperly fired the state's No. 1 police official .......
im not confident im intrepeting the tables correctly
but it would appear McCain has an even probability of living 11 years.
Life Expectancy Tables
just to set the record stright
NC is refering to my description of the competetive paradigm that the Republican party has set up...
choosing the war hero who saved their freedom in vietnam, (and the moose skinner)
over some "upitty" (their word not mine) african american who would talk to people we would like to bomb.
i never mentioned color
one could be an african american and be anything from quite pale to quite dark or tan and brown in between
the importance of my term was that a republican congressman referred to obama as "uppity"
i spent part of my childhood south of the mason dixon line
i know what word always followed the word "uppity" when white supremicists referred to african americans as "uppity....." and it wasnt black
and no im not color blind, im actually somewhat prejudiced, but im working on gettin better
Even with talks they are in a very bad place, the gov't is not going to bail them out. Sorry to say but the once mighty and powerful Lehman brothers is worth more in pieces then as a whole. Liquidation is the best choice.
This is what I think: Lehman Brothers Bankruptcy