Probably the right decision. Pumping rates down won't help a liquidity crisis like this. If anything, it would make people LESS willing to lend: As interest rates approach zero,, the mattress keeps getting more and more compelling.
It does seem to appear that the FED and Treasury have grown a pair over the past week or so. Purely out of necessity, of course, but it's always nice to watch your little reserve bank mature into a man...
And anonymouse might be right, they may actually be saving ammunition for a "surprise" cut in the very near future. An expected cut wouldn't be as much of a shock to the market as a surprise cut.
don't believe it- Wall street's lapdog didn't respond to its masters whistle!
I think it was the right decision. Had they dropped rates for many it would make more sense to take money out of the bank or put it in a checking account rather than investing in Cd's at the paltry rates being offered. Why take a bank risk when you are not getting paid for it? This would create greater .liquidity concerns for the banks rather than less a provoke a bank run rather than prevent it.
In fact they should be considering raising interest rates not lowering them -this will then make the spread that banks are paying over the funds rate smaller and less of a concern.
EB writes:
Would a 50 point rate cut really have made such a dramatic difference that a massive market drop is the only possible response to it's absence?
No. But that's not important. The Fed follows the market. It doesn't lead - it takes orders from the short term Treasuries.
So the Fed is once again behind the curve. Some may praise it here, but the market tanking today, tomorrow, and until the Fed gets the message is what has to happen.
Most of what happens is sanitized for the record (aka history books). The awful (look up the meaning of awful) truth is, everything can be boiled down to the personal.
BS didn't play along in the LTCM bailout. Lehman's been a marked target since Fuld first glared down his opponent and made him look away. And he maintained that stance, to his everlasting credit to the very end. Good on him.
AIG will go BK because they embarrassed someone important on more than one occasion. I'll let someone else fill in the blanks. I'm not gonna do it. And you can't make me.
Now, when it comes down to a choice between one versus another course of actions, the one with the hammer says, 'Fuck 'em.' And AIG is no more.
Who's next? Check the charts. It's the day when the Corleone family settles all accounts. All the debts are collected and the scores settled.
This will take awhile. The panic will come along with it.
The people most responsible for the current mess are the same ones who have been telling us for decades that a more progressive tax system would stifle their "creativity". I can't think of a better reason to make taxes more progessive than the hope that they're right. They've been telling us that if CEOs are taking home millions after taxes instead of tens of millions they'll be less willing to inflict their "creativity" on the market and on the rest of us. I say it's time we took them at their word.
Fed will save AIG before Asia open setting up for a follow through rally into tomorrow then the short rule will be brought back. Squueeze into expiration. Oh wait WAMU, WB, MS EPS.....
What I think is funny is that clearly half the market was hoping a rate cut would save them and half the market thought standing pat would do the trick, each half fearing the other's idea would doom us all.
The result is that the pre rate cut market stays buoyed on a mutual hope that the fed decision would save us... somehow, but after the announcement a collapse is destined.
Hank Greenberg trying to take control of AIG through proxy fight or proxy fight (which is old news).
Greenberg: Blah... blah... I was a stud... Why don't you love me anymore? All I want to do is help. Why won't you take my calls? I'm going to show you bitches.
Well, that's out of the way. Back to AIG. It's been a while since a good humor rumor:
Paulson will save AIG, while the Fed is saving the rate cut to tomorrow pre-open.
Looks like their leaning hard on the yen to keep this thing propped up (they being whoever has an interest in going long or betting out of being trapped long)...is that the slender reed?
Am I the only one who is not terribly impressed with the post-announcement "crash"? We're not even at the lows of the session, and S&P 1180ish is still holding. If some sort of rate cut was baked in, how to explain the failure to fully cliff dive after the Fed held serve? This was more of a semi-awkward stumble off a curb in the grand scheme of things.
well the rate cuts nonsense is all well and good...can we get a decision on AIG already, or do they think they can wait til the weekend when they'll be better able to concentrate?
So Lehman and Bear Sterns going away is like a city being bombed with 500lb iron bombs. The city loses people, infrastructure is damaged, gas fires and so on. Yet life goes on.
AIG going away is like a tactical nuke hit on a transportation hub. Everything shuts down? Stuff in the pipelines from all over is cut adrift. Nobody has a clue where to route shipments? An entire region gets hammered. Most counties have at most 3-4 hubs that keep everything running. So it isn't armegeddon but it isnt going to be fun if it was your hub?
Is it true that if you jump just as it hits bottom, you won't die in the fall?
Elevators and markets the difficulty is the same: knowing when you've hit bottom when you're in a windowless box plumeting towards the basement.
Whatever happens to AIG, it can't be as bad as losing line of credit with China. We must keep dollar strong. The turmoil in global markets is meaningful.
Even if Paulson declared a conservatorship for AIG, how could the government guarantee the CDS obligations? So there would be rundown on the asset backed subsidiaries (annuities, life ins, etc), presumably guaranteed by the Treasury. But how could our government possibly assume those massive CDS liabilities???
I don't know folks...I think they held to preserve bullets, and they aren't going to do anything more than a bridge loan for AIG.
I think they, and I can't believe I am going to say this, but have learned that they should manage the fallouts via liquidity injections and other events. Although Fed Funds ain't trading where they want it to now, thats for sure.
The street expected govt's bail out of Leh. Paulson responded with a Leh's bk.
The street expected a rate cut. Bernanke delivered a zero cut.
The street expected a AIG rescue by NY Fed.
Geithner, I am afraid, will break up and fold AIG.
ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) Taxpayers and ticket buyers are the losers in plans to provide hundreds of millions of dollars in public subsidies to build the new Yankee Stadium, a New York lawmaker said Tuesday.
\tAssemblyman Richard Brodsky said the commitment of $550 million to $850 million in taxpayer money was based on an unsubstantiated threat that the Yankees would leave New York. He said in a new report that the team predicted the public investment would generate 1,000 new permanent jobs, but the actual total would be 15.
"So the Fed is once again behind the curve. Some may praise it here, but the market tanking today, tomorrow, and until the Fed gets the message is what has to happen."
Well when the FED does get it the market will sudenly decide they are dealing with a bunch of idiots that don't have frigging clue what the hell their doing. Now that is going to be something to see.
On top of everything else I think the Fed is afraid to fail at an attempted rate cut. They couldn't hold the rate last night and they're running out of Treasuries. If they lowered the FF to 1.5% and repeatedly couldn't make it, THEN you would really see panic. The man behind the curtain doesn't dare lift people high enough that they can see behind the curtain.
"Is it true that if you jump just as it hits bottom, you won't die in the fall?"
Maybe he was pulling my leg, but an elevator repairman once told me that the common case is for the cable to snap, and with no counterweight, the passenger compartment actually smacks the roof of the elevator shaft.
Volker the Viking writes:
Most of what happens is sanitized for the record (aka history books). The awful (look up the meaning of awful) truth is, everything can be boiled down to the personal.
BS didn't play along in the LTCM bailout. Lehman's been a marked target since Fuld first glared down his opponent and made him look away. And he maintained that stance, to his everlasting credit to the very end. Good on him.
AIG will go BK because they embarrassed someone important on more than one occasion. I'll let someone else fill in the blanks. I'm not gonna do it. And you can't make me.
Now, when it comes down to a choice between one versus another course of actions, the one with the hammer says, 'Fuck 'em.' And AIG is no more.
Who's next? Check the charts. It's the day when the Corleone family settles all accounts. All the debts are collected and the scores settled.
This will take awhile. The panic will come along with it.
So what's the title of your screenplay. Have you shopped it anywhere besides here, yet?
I know about 10 different people that are currently trying to figure out how to liquidate their 401k. People are scared! I'm getting texts from random people that know I take an interest in the market. Any rally is unsustainable. Our entire banking system is about to face a margin call.
I was thinking about taking a big loan from my 401k...probably should have. A 45% loss if I were to lose my job might still be better than what is to come...
The bid-ask spread action on the $5 AIG Sept calls I bought this morning for entertainment purposes is beyond unreal. I seriously think orders are being entered by drunken monkeys with darts.
well I know from gliding that if you get disorientated and enter a spiral dive you are better off opening the air brakes and taking your hands and feet off the controls and allowing the aircraft to stabilise rather than imagining you can control what you previously could not control. Once the aircraft is the right way up and you are in a more familiar position you can then recover control.
So if we dont totally crash into the ground it should be fine.
The FED has the Dollar to protect as flight to safety continues while the World re-couples. We need to ensure Treasuries stay desirable so we can float F&F long enough until the mortgage/housing crisis runs aground to a solid bottom. Taking on AIG would be too much ballast under bow and the ship could capsize.
Then of course there are also concerns about the 'real' banks and additional exposure to deflating commercial real estate assets. All that over-built, vacant strip and urban rental space appears to the looms on horizon, just waiting to create a perfect storm.
So how much more Moral Hazard can our national coffers afford to encourage....oh and remember that whole two front war thingy which no one is currently paying for directly out of pocket but borrowing from our Chinese and Saudi "friends"....looks a 3rd front is opening upon our homeland and it is called the War on Fanatical Investment Error.
I have contemplated the 401K loan as well. I finally found someone in HR who can give me the audited financials for the "Stable Value Fund" I've got all my 401K money parked in right now. Too say that I'm eager to take a look is an understatement.
SOMEBODY was writing all those puts. And you can bet it was the IBs. They are going to be desperate to juice the market over the next couple days. Its looking like they're going to be on the hook!
"New thread! CR scoop on Fed loans extended to AIG"
That would explain the stairway to heaven it's currently on. Gotta wonder if it's more like the old mountain climber game on "The Price Is Right," though.
"well I know from gliding that if you get disorientated and enter a spiral dive you are better off opening the air brakes and taking your hands and feet off the controls and allowing the aircraft to stabilise rather than imagining you can control what you previously could not control. Once the aircraft is the right way up and you are in a more familiar position you can then recover control"
Only works with stuff that was designed with positive stability. The market is more like an Extra 500. It needs to be flown - can't just cover your eyes and hope for the best
first??
First.
Where is my cookie?
Stay the course!
HA
)
Here we go!!!!
Wheeeeeeee!
cnbc live coverage here
cnbc CreditMattersBlog.com on Justin.tv
wah-whahhhh
....and the DOW drops....
And that is change you can believe in.
Woohoo! Down goes the Dow!
No pony? Boo
Probably the right decision. Pumping rates down won't help a liquidity crisis like this. If anything, it would make people LESS willing to lend: As interest rates approach zero,, the mattress keeps getting more and more compelling.
Wow, the vote was unanimous Circle the wagons. Sad.
"And that is change you can believe in."
The only change I currently believe in is piling up in cups and jars in my house...
It does seem to appear that the FED and Treasury have grown a pair over the past week or so. Purely out of necessity, of course, but it's always nice to watch your little reserve bank mature into a man...
Tim Geithner, unfortunately, was absent due to other pressing matters.
Dropping rates wouldn't drop the fear, and it would have only intensified the damage. Gustov has passed, but I see Ike coming...
Finally the Fed does the right thing, about 5 years too late however. About time they stopped being Wall St.'s bitch.
I guess I'm going to have to learn what the term "priced in" means. Apparently not what I thought it did.
Fed will lower it by 100bp before next Tuesday. Count on it.
And AIG will go BK.
Good to see some restraint by the cabal/schmucks/shysters/shylocks.
Is it true that if you jump just as it hits bottom, you won't die in the fall?
Probably the right decision, but the markets are not going to like it.
WoooooHoooooo!!
CSC, how was that 5 gram ride the other evening?
And anonymouse might be right, they may actually be saving ammunition for a "surprise" cut in the very near future. An expected cut wouldn't be as much of a shock to the market as a surprise cut.
Protecting the dollar, but not for us...
TIMBERRRRRRRR!!!!!
Know what? They should have RAISED it 50bps. That'll learn 'em.
Well, I expected them to cut because the market was expecting it. We will see if the market tests their resolve.
The wagons are being circled. Even the cheapest hooker on the street only takes cash as payment.
Washington knows Wall Street is bankrupt. No more tug jobs for them.
Dow down 127 for the day. Cliff diving.
Mouse, you have an outside chance of being right on the 100bp cut....
Back to the future
Is there any defining time or event that will force AIG to sh*t or get off the pot?
How many days (?) would it take to detangle AIG's CDS?
I didn't wind up eating all 5. Probably 3+. And I don't think I saw anything more interesting than the real world.
First time for everything, I guess.
If this keeps up, I'm taking bank failure Friday off and escaping with 200 mics of liquid love.
Many people think this spells doom for AIG, i.e. no bailout coming. Geithner is obviously a little busy and missed this vote.
Best to all.
These children need to learn to ride without training wheels. The only thing holding the market up was a hope and a prayer? Good God!
YAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!
No crack for the crack whores.
And AIG will go BK.
No. something will be done. The Fed/Treasury only have so many hands.
The market is leading the fed, not the other way around.
The fed knew it could EITHER assist AIG/WaMu/WB OR drop the fed funds rate. can't do both
so it floated both ideas out there, and saw the market reaction
Market wants a rate cut, but is more afraid of AIG than they desire the cut.
so the Fed held.
and AIG will be solved.
Sometime's it's just woman's intuition, ya know.
Oh yeah, I'm not a woman.
well then, carry on!
(I still think AIG is saved at the last minute)
OK, no rate change. Ship still leaking steadily.
At least they didn't fire off another of those homing torpedoes that makes a big loop and holes the ship even more.
I dont believe it.
About a year ago we were told, "Don't fight the Fed!"
Hahahahahahahahahaha! How does crow taste?
"Geithner is obviously a little busy and missed this vote."
I thought he was at home taking a nap after all of the late nights at the office.
Well I called no cut...but it wasn't the correct thing. Raising rates is the correct thing.
Cheers,
The cure for saving AIG could be worse than the BK.
Would a 50 point rate cut really have made such a dramatic difference that a massive market drop is the only possible response to it's absence?
No pony? Boo
Ponies are coming on Wednesday.
I have a reliable insider that says the US post office is gearing up for surprise deliveries on Wednesday.
They've rented over a million horse trailers in the past week alone.
Yeeeee-Haaaaa!!!
At last the Fed shows some signs of intelligence.
Russian stock market crash??
FT.com / In depth - Russia halts trading after 17% share price fall
Call came in from China, don't you dare cut that rate.
WOW. WOW. The Fed is growing a spine?. Whocodanode?
don't believe it- Wall street's lapdog didn't respond to its masters whistle!
I think it was the right decision. Had they dropped rates for many it would make more sense to take money out of the bank or put it in a checking account rather than investing in Cd's at the paltry rates being offered. Why take a bank risk when you are not getting paid for it? This would create greater .liquidity concerns for the banks rather than less a provoke a bank run rather than prevent it.
In fact they should be considering raising interest rates not lowering them -this will then make the spread that banks are paying over the funds rate smaller and less of a concern.
EB writes:
Would a 50 point rate cut really have made such a dramatic difference that a massive market drop is the only possible response to it's absence?
No. But that's not important. The Fed follows the market. It doesn't lead - it takes orders from the short term Treasuries.
So the Fed is once again behind the curve. Some may praise it here, but the market tanking today, tomorrow, and until the Fed gets the message is what has to happen.
Yearning To Learn | 09.16.08 - 2:29 pm |
I agree.
It is one or the other.
721 Visitors Online
Most of what happens is sanitized for the record (aka history books). The awful (look up the meaning of awful) truth is, everything can be boiled down to the personal.
BS didn't play along in the LTCM bailout. Lehman's been a marked target since Fuld first glared down his opponent and made him look away. And he maintained that stance, to his everlasting credit to the very end. Good on him.
AIG will go BK because they embarrassed someone important on more than one occasion. I'll let someone else fill in the blanks. I'm not gonna do it. And you can't make me.
Now, when it comes down to a choice between one versus another course of actions, the one with the hammer says, 'Fuck 'em.' And AIG is no more.
Who's next? Check the charts. It's the day when the Corleone family settles all accounts. All the debts are collected and the scores settled.
This will take awhile. The panic will come along with it.
Question:
If the AIG BK will have world-wide repercussions, why is up to the US Fed to foot the bailout?
We need a coalition of the willing
America finally realize they have to keep their AAA rating safe. The CDS of USA surge! I guess they can't afford to become Italy.
The people most responsible for the current mess are the same ones who have been telling us for decades that a more progressive tax system would stifle their "creativity". I can't think of a better reason to make taxes more progessive than the hope that they're right. They've been telling us that if CEOs are taking home millions after taxes instead of tens of millions they'll be less willing to inflict their "creativity" on the market and on the rest of us. I say it's time we took them at their word.
"The role of the Fed is to backstop the banks." -Bloomberg dude
Wow. They don't usually take off the mask and admit this stuff until Scooby has them tied up in the corner.
Can the dow rally this afternoon, or are we looking down at the elevator shaft? Any guesses?
Fed will save AIG before Asia open setting up for a follow through rally into tomorrow then the short rule will be brought back. Squueeze into expiration. Oh wait WAMU, WB, MS EPS.....
FOMC worries about inflation? (sigh)
On CNBC they are now talking about creating some form of CDS clearnghouse.
Like an RTC for CDS?
sounds interesting.
I like seeing Bill Gross whine though. With all that money you'd think he could buy a sandwhich or something.
What I think is funny is that clearly half the market was hoping a rate cut would save them and half the market thought standing pat would do the trick, each half fearing the other's idea would doom us all.
The result is that the pre rate cut market stays buoyed on a mutual hope that the fed decision would save us... somehow, but after the announcement a collapse is destined.
CNBC: Breaking news on AIG
(Reposted from previous thread)
Hank Greenberg trying to take control of AIG through proxy fight or proxy fight (which is old news).
Greenberg: Blah... blah... I was a stud... Why don't you love me anymore? All I want to do is help. Why won't you take my calls? I'm going to show you bitches.
Here come the WRITE UPS!
Can the dow rally this afternoon, or are we looking down at the elevator shaft? Any guesses?
yeppers... Look to AIG.
Well, that's out of the way. Back to AIG. It's been a while since a good humor rumor:
Paulson will save AIG, while the Fed is saving the rate cut to tomorrow pre-open.
Looks like their leaning hard on the yen to keep this thing propped up (they being whoever has an interest in going long or betting out of being trapped long)...is that the slender reed?
Here come the WRITE UPS!
ROFL. oh my god that was way too much fun.
Here come the WRITE UPS!
Beginning with the Fannie Mae preferred!
Oh yeah!
Am I the only one who is not terribly impressed with the post-announcement "crash"? We're not even at the lows of the session, and S&P 1180ish is still holding. If some sort of rate cut was baked in, how to explain the failure to fully cliff dive after the Fed held serve? This was more of a semi-awkward stumble off a curb in the grand scheme of things.
well the rate cuts nonsense is all well and good...can we get a decision on AIG already, or do they think they can wait til the weekend when they'll be better able to concentrate?
Why is SKF still red?
Intraday A-B-C down in progress...
Seems the support, when it's there is a mile wide and an inch deep.
I'm not good at predictions, and I'm not saying now, but it could be a wild ride down the rest of the session.
Then again, I could be wrong.
So Lehman and Bear Sterns going away is like a city being bombed with 500lb iron bombs. The city loses people, infrastructure is damaged, gas fires and so on. Yet life goes on.
AIG going away is like a tactical nuke hit on a transportation hub. Everything shuts down? Stuff in the pipelines from all over is cut adrift. Nobody has a clue where to route shipments? An entire region gets hammered. Most counties have at most 3-4 hubs that keep everything running. So it isn't armegeddon but it isnt going to be fun if it was your hub?
SKF in limbo until we get something under than gasbag rumors on AIG.
Is it true that if you jump just as it hits bottom, you won't die in the fall?
Elevators and markets the difficulty is the same: knowing when you've hit bottom when you're in a windowless box plumeting towards the basement.
Whatever happens to AIG, it can't be as bad as losing line of credit with China. We must keep dollar strong. The turmoil in global markets is meaningful.
Conjure says, "What a great way to run a financial system! Keep us guessing until the last possible goddamned moment."
Where can I find a dow ticker that updates in real time? The one I use now is big and fugly.
Former AIG CEO Hank Greenberg Writes Letter to Company Offering to Help. Complains AIG Won't Accept Assitance (story developing)
Bair is up. And she looks hotter than a post-menopausal softball coach.
I predict we will end the day with the Dow down 212
Even if Paulson declared a conservatorship for AIG, how could the government guarantee the CDS obligations? So there would be rundown on the asset backed subsidiaries (annuities, life ins, etc), presumably guaranteed by the Treasury. But how could our government possibly assume those massive CDS liabilities???
Deft. They think they're deft.
doesn't everyone here have jobs? There are 848 people online here. Wow!
I wish the DOW would tank and get it over with so we can clean the carpets and start recovering!
I don't know folks...I think they held to preserve bullets, and they aren't going to do anything more than a bridge loan for AIG.
I think they, and I can't believe I am going to say this, but have learned that they should manage the fallouts via liquidity injections and other events. Although Fed Funds ain't trading where they want it to now, thats for sure.
933 Visitors Online
Sell, fools, sell!
merciless:
yahoo finance has a real time price ticker; stockcharts.com is also real time for large indexes
Thanks.
What's Bair saying?
woa, what just happened?
963 visitors ... heading for 1000
The street expected govt's bail out of Leh. Paulson responded with a Leh's bk.
The street expected a rate cut. Bernanke delivered a zero cut.
The street expected a AIG rescue by NY Fed.
Geithner, I am afraid, will break up and fold AIG.
3 for 3 and new paradigm.
What the hell just happened? Everything went green...
More bad news for Joe Sixpack:
ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) Taxpayers and ticket buyers are the losers in plans to provide hundreds of millions of dollars in public subsidies to build the new Yankee Stadium, a New York lawmaker said Tuesday.
\tAssemblyman Richard Brodsky said the commitment of $550 million to $850 million in taxpayer money was based on an unsubstantiated threat that the Yankees would leave New York. He said in a new report that the team predicted the public investment would generate 1,000 new permanent jobs, but the actual total would be 15.
why is markets turned around 100 pts in one minute outright manipulation now...
I don't think they all knew what do, just yet so they did nothing.
We all just keep waiting for each bankruptcy to bring an end to the world as we know it....and they don't.
Just let 'em fail...and then use the powder to clean it all up once the storm has passed.
Just one idiot's opinion.
Dow is now UP 31. ... 110-point rally. WTF
craaaaaaaaaazy volatility
Dow up 103?????
WTF
we haz bailout finally? yay.
PPT is spreading bailout rumors again.
Whatcha bet that asshole Cox ignores it?
what was that...
Please make room for MR. Volatility and Mrs. Volume.
Surprise!!!!!!!!!No Rate Cut...but we are reconsidering helping AIG. BREAKING NEWS!!
Ben, I need a bridge loan to get me through the depression, can you help?
"So the Fed is once again behind the curve. Some may praise it here, but the market tanking today, tomorrow, and until the Fed gets the message is what has to happen."
Well when the FED does get it the market will sudenly decide they are dealing with a bunch of idiots that don't have frigging clue what the hell their doing. Now that is going to be something to see.
randy writes:
doesn't everyone here have jobs? There are 848 people online here. Wow!
sure, but we're blogaholics, the twelve steps have been posted
get with it
keep coming back
wtf is going o
AIG just jumped by more than 20%
Wow, getting a little nauseous now, whoa man, up, down, green, red...
"A Sense That Wall St.s Boom Times Are Over"
Conjure says, "'Ya think?"
Change Arrives, With a Sense That Wall St.'s Boom Times Are Over - NY Times
I think this is what the doctors on ER call "fine defib"
something smells like week old fish....
AIG up
Looks like the big boys are trying to goose a rally to sell into...
On top of everything else I think the Fed is afraid to fail at an attempted rate cut. They couldn't hold the rate last night and they're running out of Treasuries. If they lowered the FF to 1.5% and repeatedly couldn't make it, THEN you would really see panic. The man behind the curtain doesn't dare lift people high enough that they can see behind the curtain.
Dunno but the yen went from 104.8 to 105.7 or thereabouts in five minutes...
Gasparino's cell phone rang
"Is it true that if you jump just as it hits bottom, you won't die in the fall?"
Maybe he was pulling my leg, but an elevator repairman once told me that the common case is for the cable to snap, and with no counterweight, the passenger compartment actually smacks the roof of the elevator shaft.
Then it falls.
Bloomberg just reported that they are reconsidering helping AIG
somebody knows something I only speculated about earlier. Gasbag, fill me in.
I'm forward to by bills my Ben from now on.
My debtors can call him.
Chart 2:15-2:45 is nearly exact inverse of 10:50-11:20. So bizarre. Did the Fed just release a second memo titled "just kidding"?
...and the Dow goes up!!!??? Fed's having it both ways. They just don't want 2 look weak.
The Fed and Treasury are actively spreading lies right now.
The US stock market is a charade.
Posted this on previous thread, but everyone's her so I'll ask again.
Dropping oil prices should continue to bolster US dollar, but will all this other shit negate that?
Any insight?
So far the dollar's been hanging in there.
Bair:
The banking system is safe and sound. (Said this multiple times)
The crux of the prob is still the housing market.
Some banks still have some challenges.
She also said something about bloggers and enemy combatants.
OK this is just f---ing insane now. Schizophrenic.
Volker the Viking writes:
Most of what happens is sanitized for the record (aka history books). The awful (look up the meaning of awful) truth is, everything can be boiled down to the personal.
BS didn't play along in the LTCM bailout. Lehman's been a marked target since Fuld first glared down his opponent and made him look away. And he maintained that stance, to his everlasting credit to the very end. Good on him.
AIG will go BK because they embarrassed someone important on more than one occasion. I'll let someone else fill in the blanks. I'm not gonna do it. And you can't make me.
Now, when it comes down to a choice between one versus another course of actions, the one with the hammer says, 'Fuck 'em.' And AIG is no more.
Who's next? Check the charts. It's the day when the Corleone family settles all accounts. All the debts are collected and the scores settled.
This will take awhile. The panic will come along with it.
So what's the title of your screenplay. Have you shopped it anywhere besides here, yet?
Rally dissolving.
Looks like more traders in the market than people.
(because obviously, traders aren't people.)
So what's the title of your screenplay. Have you shopped it anywhere besides here, yet?
Bottom Feeder
thank you
Somebody just made an eff-load of money in 15 minutes. They should hire someone honest to investigate. But we're outta them.
i can haz dramamine nowz?
Nice try pump monkeys. That was feeble.
desperate move to spark a short covering rally - death throes grade stuff?
Institutional money going to sell into all of those at this point is my guess...
JP writes:
Looks like more traders in the market than people.
JP, you mispelled "traitors".
New thread up
I still say down 200 at final bell.
they just gunned a whole bunch of stops pre-set before announcement that people forgot to cancel
unbelievable....
Hit the Bid: Woof! woof!, dude.
...so much trouble in the world......
The Feds look like they're finally standing firm. Good to see, if about a year too late overall.
This "news" was on the dealbreak home page almost 30 minutos ago...
Well, that was weird.
I know about 10 different people that are currently trying to figure out how to liquidate their 401k. People are scared! I'm getting texts from random people that know I take an interest in the market. Any rally is unsustainable. Our entire banking system is about to face a margin call.
what's going on?
Uh oh. The return of Bizzaro world.
Hurray, no rate cut! It's all bullish!
I was thinking about taking a big loan from my 401k...probably should have. A 45% loss if I were to lose my job might still be better than what is to come...
CNBC just reported Barclay's buying parts of Lehman... possible reason for rally.
The bid-ask spread action on the $5 AIG Sept calls I bought this morning for entertainment purposes is beyond unreal. I seriously think orders are being entered by drunken monkeys with darts.
Short the crap outa the long bond!
to second gavshire:
conversation overheard in elevator 5 minutes ago:
joe 6 pack: you talking to your stock broker:
jane 6 pack (on cell): laughs
joe 6 pack: SELL SELL SELL!
well I know from gliding that if you get disorientated and enter a spiral dive you are better off opening the air brakes and taking your hands and feet off the controls and allowing the aircraft to stabilise rather than imagining you can control what you previously could not control. Once the aircraft is the right way up and you are in a more familiar position you can then recover control.
So if we dont totally crash into the ground it should be fine.
what in the world is going on...
There is no crash coming. With all this liquidity, we will experience what is known as a "water landing."
You'll still lose your head on impact, though.
The FED has the Dollar to protect as flight to safety continues while the World re-couples. We need to ensure Treasuries stay desirable so we can float F&F long enough until the mortgage/housing crisis runs aground to a solid bottom. Taking on AIG would be too much ballast under bow and the ship could capsize.
Then of course there are also concerns about the 'real' banks and additional exposure to deflating commercial real estate assets. All that over-built, vacant strip and urban rental space appears to the looms on horizon, just waiting to create a perfect storm.
So how much more Moral Hazard can our national coffers afford to encourage....oh and remember that whole two front war thingy which no one is currently paying for directly out of pocket but borrowing from our Chinese and Saudi "friends"....looks a 3rd front is opening upon our homeland and it is called the War on Fanatical Investment Error.
Wow, this takes bizarre to a whole new level. This is what, a 300 point rally as of yet.
I have contemplated the 401K loan as well. I finally found someone in HR who can give me the audited financials for the "Stable Value Fund" I've got all my 401K money parked in right now. Too say that I'm eager to take a look is an understatement.
New thread! CR scoop on Fed loans extended to AIG
PPT whipsawing the shorts ... again ...
you're right popcorn canadian, it's crazy
randy writes:
doesn't everyone here have jobs? There are 848 people online here. Wow!
Job? No. Lost mine six weeks ago. What's an out of work engineer to do?
The DOW industrial is now playing in a loop. Someone should give them a heads up.
SOMEBODY was writing all those puts. And you can bet it was the IBs. They are going to be desperate to juice the market over the next couple days. Its looking like they're going to be on the hook!
"New thread! CR scoop on Fed loans extended to AIG"
That would explain the stairway to heaven it's currently on. Gotta wonder if it's more like the old mountain climber game on "The Price Is Right," though.
I am disappointed the FED has some IQ and didn't cut the 100 bps FFR cut.
May be they are saving towards end-of the week.
soneone in these here parts had 1180 as a number to defend.
not 1080, 1180!
I think it was GS
"well I know from gliding that if you get disorientated and enter a spiral dive you are better off opening the air brakes and taking your hands and feet off the controls and allowing the aircraft to stabilise rather than imagining you can control what you previously could not control. Once the aircraft is the right way up and you are in a more familiar position you can then recover control"
Only works with stuff that was designed with positive stability. The market is more like an Extra 500. It needs to be flown - can't just cover your eyes and hope for the best
Sorry - an Extra 300