This chart shows what happens when the upper-middle-class on "Main Street" all call their brokers at once and say, "Does my money market fund hold anything other than Treasuries? It does? Why don't you fix that for me. Now. K thanks buh-bye"
Rated companies? Rated by whom? Cha-Ching hasn't gotten to any companies yet fwiw. They're still working on countries. Plus GE and Coke are huge. If we had rated them we would have noticed all the activity in our tipjar.
The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again. Paulson intended to show that companies who make bad decisions will fail. He also scared the hell out of investors and depositors. Oh well.
Sure was a short-lived bounce this morning. Seems like every big move by the big cheeses is followed by a progressively shorter goose in the markets. Must be the effect of the Super Collider.
Corruption, greed, power, companies and government ran for the benefit of the few. Deregulation made all of his possible. Thanks a lot for ruining the country.
Round and round she goes, where she stops no one knows.
Got gold..... I was working on getting money out of this country, looks like I might have been a little slow.......
Serious question: Market dive corresponds exactly to Bush statement timing.
He has a history of speaking happy horseshit during delivery elsewhere of bad news (he held a news conference opposite Bernanke's testimony. See Jon Stewart's coverage on YouTube, it's priceless.)
So I am wondering: Was there some other piece of bad news that happened at that time that I missed?
the risk of default is close to zero (think companies like GE ...)
folks, it's time to get acquainted with something called GE Capital. we may be hearing as much about it in the next month as we heard about AIG in the last month.
Link to the above:
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/putnam-liquidates-money-market-fund/story.aspx?guid={ECF1151B-38BF-43BD-8F58-9ECF274F4493}&dist=hplatest
A word on Vanguard money market funds
The recent bankruptcy filing by Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and widespread turbulence in the financial markets have prompted a number of questions about the impact on Vanguard funds, including money market funds.
Vanguard is confident in the stability of its money market funds, all of which are managed with the objective of maintaining a stable net asset value of $1 a share.
...
Our largest money market fund is Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund, which currently holds more than half of its assets in U.S. Treasury and federal agency securities. In addition, Prime Money Market Fund has no exposure to money market instruments issued by securities dealers, including Lehman Brothers. It also has no exposure to securities of AIG, the insurance concern that is being supported by loans from the federal government.
Holdings of Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund (as of 8/31/2008)
U.S. Treasury: 36%
U.S. Agency: 17%
Certificates of deposit: 32%
High-quality commercial paper: 14%
Repurchase agreements: 1%
I have about 150K sitting in what I thought was "cash". This seems OK to me, but if you think otherwise let me know. There are probably other vanguard investors reading, so I thought it would have general usefulness.
I poked around in historical paper spreads and IIRC this is about the level of the early '80s recession (maybe a bit higher) Not the end of the world, although certainly bad. Unfortunately I forgot to save the link so I'm trying to track that info down now.
daveg, for what it's worth, I had ( as of yesterday) about the same in VMMXX. I went to the Vanguard site and read that VMMXX can hold up to 25% in CP of FINANCIALS. Nuff said.
I exchanged it ALL as of yesterday to VMPXX. If that breaks the buck we are all FUBAR.
Whoopsie, no, this is bad. Here's a report from the Richmond Fed which has a chart of prime-to-medium CP spreads back to 1974. Peak was just over 150 in 1974. The 80's peaks were about 130 and 140. So the current numbers - twice historical peaks from very severe recessions - are very, very bad.
1) If there are MM runs to the point they have to temporarily suspend redemption, the public's panic and loss of confidence would be hard for the Fed to control;
and
2) CP is always refinancing, and corporations working capital depends on it; that's what the name means: the paper funding commerce.
If the CP market locks up, the FED can step in to provide interim liquidity to the banks to loan to corp's that can't access the CP market, or they can again invoke 13(3), the provision that allows the Fed to lend to anyone.
One way or the other, the Fed HAS to get the CP market unfrozen, if they can, or the virus spreads from the FIRE sector to the real sector.
daveg- I switched to the Vanguard Treasuries Money Market back in December as I was worried about the credit crunch largely from reading this blog among others. I gave up a little yield but I have been sleeping like a baby over the past few nights.
Citadel has hired a number of J.P. Morgan's capital markets bankers since the start of this year which J.P. Morgan executives contend violates contractual agreements with those employees, the Journal said.
One way or the other, the Fed HAS to get the CP market unfrozen, if they can, or the virus spreads from the FIRE sector to the real sector.
At this point we're in a liquidity trap and the Fed has to inflate. Barring the possibility that this is a very brief panic and will clear up in a day or two, we're in for a depression. Not necessarily a great depression, but a depression. Right now we're heading into ye olde-fashioned Fisherian debt trap where nobody buys assets because they're going to drop in value causing them to drop more in value, etc.
The solution is to run inflation high enough that the asset value of cash is also dropping, and somewhat faster than the economy as a whole, so that people will actually buy stuff and there are markets to work out exactly how much each asset will have to be marked down. Of course you don't want inflation higher than that because the inflation will cause waste and dislocation. But a mild inflation will produce far less dislocation than any depression.
12:18 *PUTNAM SAYS DECISION DOESNT RELATE TO OTHER PUTNAM FUNDS
12:17 *PUTNAM SAYS ACTION RELATES TO PRIME MONEY MARKET FUND
12:17 *PUTNAM, TRUSTEES BELIEVE ACTION IN BEST INTERESTS OF HOLDERS
12:17 *PUTNAM SAYS FUNDS NET ASSET VALUE AT SEPT 16 WAS $1.00-SHR
12:17 *PUTNAM SAYS FUND EXPERIENCED SIGNIFICANT REDEMPTION PRESSURE
12:17 *PUTNAM SAYS FUND HAS NO EXPOSURE TO LEHMAN, WAMU OR AIG
12:16 *PUTNAM CITES REACTION TO MARKETWIDE LIQUIDITY ISSUES
12:16 *PUTNAM SAYS ACTION NOT RELATED TO PORTFOLIO CREDIT QUALITY
12:16 *PUTNAM FUNDS BOARD VOTES TO CLOSE FUND
12:16 *PUTNAM ANNOUNCES FUND CLOSING, DISTRIBUTION OF ASSETS
12:16 *PUTNAM ANNOUNCES FUND CLOSING, FOR PUTNAM PRIME MARKET FUND
also:
Bank of New York Mellon has just announced that a $22 billion institutional money fund which it manages has broken the buck because of exposure to Lehman Brothers.
Timm, don't sleep easy, no one gets out of this alive!!!
" R. Timm writes:
daveg- I switched to the Vanguard Treasuries Money Market back in December as I was worried about the credit crunch largely from reading this blog among others. I gave up a little yield but I have been sleeping like a baby over the past few nights.
R. Timm | 09.18.08 - 1:16 pm | # "
I'm sure this post is frightfully interesting, but pretty much the only things I could understand from it were:
a) this is indicative of a lack of liquidity
b) this is very unusual
If someone is feeling generous... what is "paper" in this context? What is actually being -measured- in that chart? What is an example of a past systemic liquidity problem I could google and read about, so that I can get some sense as to what the implications might be?
Is this at all related to the Asian markets crashing, or separate? If related, how?
If you're not feeling generous, don't mind me... when I can understand posts on this blog, it is some fine stuff.
folks, it's time to get acquainted with something called GE Capital. we may be hearing as much about it in the next month as we heard about AIG in the last month.
GE Capital leases a lot of airplanes (they build engines so there is a tie-in). They also do truck and car leasing as well.
But, they are known to be pretty conservative group.
At this point we're in a liquidity trap and the Fed has to inflate. Barring the possibility that this is a very brief panic and will clear up in a day or two, we're in for a depression. Not necessarily a great depression, but a depression. Right now we're heading into ye olde-fashioned Fisherian debt trap where nobody buys assets because they're going to drop in value causing them to drop more in value, etc.
exactly, fe. yesterday treasury sold a pile of t-bills and put the money on deposit at the fed to expand their balance sheet. do that some more. it's your last best chance.
B. Dewhirst: Briefly, "paper" here means unsecured short term IOUs of corporations. In the old days, they were actually physically printed as bearer instruments just like currency, but of course no more. Corporations fund their working capital: accounts payable and payroll, mainly, with this.
This is not related to Asia. This is related to the flood of non-govie securities being offered for sale as funds scramble to reduce their perceived risk (and real risk, too, but to a far lesser degree).
That locks out corporations that have to come to market to "roll over" their IOU's.
Generally, CP funds quarterly. This is Sept: end of a quarter.
Fair Economist: I'm not a practicing economist, so I'm asking: is it even possible to inflate out of a liquidity trap? Doesn't the deflationary vortex that got the system there just send the excess money into further deleveraging?
B. Dewhirst: I'll do the best I can with a couple of your questions.
""what is "paper" in this context?" Short term (always less than 9 months, but usually only 30 days) loans for companies, basically used to smooth cash flow.
"What is actually being -measured- in that chart?" The difference in the interest being charged to "good" paper (i.e., from very sound company with virtually no chance of defaulting since the loan is for such a short time, such as 30 days) versus "bad" paper (i.e., from a not quite so sound company whose chance of defaulting is a little higher, although still not that high since, again, this is a very short term loan). As Fair Economist pointed out, the spread here is the biggest it has ever been (at least going back a few decades), showing that there is great fear by lenders to loan to anyone who might not be considered virtually default-proof.
Note: this is not my area of expertise (at all), but that is my understanding of this. If I've screwed something up, someone else please chime in to correct it.
they lend long and borrow short, have big arms in mortgages, car leasing and consumer finance, and are heavily levered. they could be a big problem soon.
See, this is Bernanke's worst nightmare: credit disruption begets corporate insolvancy begets layoffs or missed payroll begets spending curtailment and savings/hoarding begets ... well, we all know the rest.
That said, the system has actually been staring into this abyss before. Twice in 1970 alone, in fact. The Fed was able to bring it (CP market) back to life then, and probably other times as well.
Generally, CP funds quarterly. This is Sept: end of a quarter.
We saw the same issues last year. Money market funds wanted to "tidy" their books before they were required to file quarterly reports which disclosed holdings.
That way they can deliver high yields to attract clients (and bury their fees) at the same time they look like a sleepy, low-risk fund.
As very new to all of this, the blog threads are very puzzling to me.
(1) is "visitors unline" just for its particular original posting, and another posting has it's distinct "visitors" count?, and
(2) is the dynamic that most everyone leaves one thread and goes to the other when there is a new posting?
As a Japanese gentlemen with whom I used to work in NY used to say, "I am confusing."
Yes, they can inflate to the extent that they can "helicopter" in money, which means give it to people directly. The normal way is to fund the federal government through the inflating cash. Theoretically they could also make loans directly to the entities that need cash (ie issue A2 paper and such themselves) although I don't see how they could set up the institutional expertise and infrastructure to do so on such extremely short notice. They could also take over a failing institution that does this and use their structure and expertise although that would create massive crowding-out problems because other institutions would have to transact business in competition without the Fed's backing, which I would think is impossible.
So IMO the best approach is to start printing money for federal operations. They should start immediately because although that's a big hose they can't use all of it and they may need a lot.
The trick, I think, is to do it more like a currency depreciation where they dump out a lot of money quickly, drop real asset values, and stop. If people expect ongoing inflation that will create nasty additional pressures on the banking system.
40 billion is about 5% of M0 and should be enough if it's used to inflate. The way the 40 billion was described sounds like they were trying to sterilize it or maybe even pull out the cash. The problem is making it feed through fast enough, which could be very tricky.
Don't know about links, but the two instances were
(1) the BK of the PennCentral railroad, which was induced by their inability to roll over their CP, which in turn threatened the collapse of the CP market on Monday (the BK was on a Friday night),
and
(2) the failure (surprise, on a Friday!) of what was at the time the fourth largest broker, whose name I do not remember.
One good source, and as an economist, even more of a understandable read, is the book (out of print) by "Adam Smith" (Jerry Goodman) named "Supermoney."
It documents the 1970 incidents, and others, in the chapter "The days the music almost died." 38 years ago, and then again, the same.
Vanguard has all these ship and sailing analogies in its materials. They urge their sailors to stay the course thru at least a moderate level of sea-sickness. But what to do when the whole globe is pea green and leaning over the rail to retch, they don't quite say. I think John Bogle (Vanguard founder) would be brave. Anyone who has chosen the kind of heart operation he has had is brave.
I'm with the Vanguard Prime MM, Vanguard's long term treasuries and a tax-free bond fund (NY). I'm worried, but will stick w/ all for now.
Here's a true story for you about dumb luck investment decision making. My little firm had weakening revenues for the past 2 years and so earlier this year we determined to liquidate the firm's invested savings to have them available for ongoing operations. This has proven to be a nearly miraculous decision. The investment savings we sold were in AIG and a few other financial stocks. By dumb luck (and we are kinda dumb about this stuff) we somehow sold those securities before they tanked. Our investment advisor stayed in those stocks himself and rode them all the way down.
I think generally if your decisions in the short term are based on thrift, you might survive better than if you panic.
Austin Tex: The name of the securities firm that went bust was Drysdale. This led to big concerns about repo market and ability to liquidate repo collateral in event of bankruptcy.
Next up: Coordinated easing by the world's central banks.
Coordinated printing by the world's central banks.
Looks like Al Gore's CO2 level chart. That is a hell of a spike.
"But right now this also shows the lack of liquidity in the system"
I think the Fed has pumped massive liquidity into the system...I think it shows fear and lack of solvency
This chart shows what happens when the upper-middle-class on "Main Street" all call their brokers at once and say, "Does my money market fund hold anything other than Treasuries? It does? Why don't you fix that for me. Now. K thanks buh-bye"
Coordinated 1 finger salutes by middle America.
Naaah, in spite of the crap, Middle America is still being entertained, so they won't really notice.
Turn it upside down and it would be cliff diving.
Wow.
Just...wow.
Many companies issue CP, and for most of these companies the risk of default is close to zero (think companies like GE or Coke).
Not anymore. Just consider Lehman and that money market fund that broke the buck.
The wizards of wall street broke the sytem for a few year end bonuses.
Joe Six pack has reached debt overload. This is becoming widely accepted.
That graph shows not a "flight" to quality, but a rocket ship.
waddidya think that 180bil announced at 3am was all about. It's call ICEAGE!
Face plant.
PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!
From WSJ:
J.P. Morgan Chase stops trading with Citadel Investment in dispute over hedge fund's hiring push. Full story to follow shortly.
This country might not even make it to Hallowee
Seriously, did I miss the earth shattering KABOOM? 'Cause this market done blowed up.
I don't even have any idea what that chart means, and yet it still makes me feel nauseated.
Please excuse my numeric poetry:
AGG (iShares Lehman (remember them?) Aggregate Bond Index)
High for the day = 100.666
Traders have a sense of humor.
Rated companies? Rated by whom? Cha-Ching hasn't gotten to any companies yet fwiw. They're still working on countries. Plus GE and Coke are huge. If we had rated them we would have noticed all the activity in our tipjar.
The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again. Paulson intended to show that companies who make bad decisions will fail. He also scared the hell out of investors and depositors. Oh well.
Wadda y'know, different levels of risk are priced differently.
Christ, I've been so fixated on Morgan/Goldman etc that I didn't even look at the money market custodians: NTRS, STT.
Cliff diving.
But the volatility is 70+ on NTRS. No sensible trade to be made there at these prices.
STT joining the party...my my my
Sure was a short-lived bounce this morning. Seems like every big move by the big cheeses is followed by a progressively shorter goose in the markets. Must be the effect of the Super Collider.
Big bump to the slosh today, looks like all MBS and Agency as collateral...mmmmhmmmm!
The Slosh Report
I'm changing over to Wu-Tang Financial:
Nowadays we all know that cash rules everything around us. C.R.E.A.M. Get the money. Dollar, dollar bill y'all.
That's why its time to enter the 36 chambers, and step to the Wu.
we are f**ked. The economy is going to be in for a severe contraction.
Corruption, greed, power, companies and government ran for the benefit of the few. Deregulation made all of his possible. Thanks a lot for ruining the country.
Round and round she goes, where she stops no one knows.
Got gold..... I was working on getting money out of this country, looks like I might have been a little slow.......
Here's my favorite take on the credit situation - NOTICE it's from last December - but if you need an overview - I think you'll find it very helpful:
http://www.minyanville.com/articles/Fed-banks-debt-liquidity/index/a/15121
Serious question: Market dive corresponds exactly to Bush statement timing.
He has a history of speaking happy horseshit during delivery elsewhere of bad news (he held a news conference opposite Bernanke's testimony. See Jon Stewart's coverage on YouTube, it's priceless.)
So I am wondering: Was there some other piece of bad news that happened at that time that I missed?
CNBC : Sen. McCain says SEC Chairman Christopher Cox should be fired.
the risk of default is close to zero (think companies like GE ...)
folks, it's time to get acquainted with something called GE Capital. we may be hearing as much about it in the next month as we heard about AIG in the last month.
CR
Where is the A2/P2 spread reported please?
I did a googled it but couldn't find a source - other than yourself that is!
Cheers
excellent post CR.
this is why i started coming here.
thanks for all you do.
FRB Commercial Paper
Difference of first two columns on 30 day line
MarketWatch (and apparently CNBC, from the source who I got the headsup), is saying:
"Putnam liquidates money market fund"
They were run, and they probably are getting "no bid" on their CP and other paper.
Not good at all, if true.
Link to the above:
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/putnam-liquidates-money-market-fund/story.aspx?guid={ECF1151B-38BF-43BD-8F58-9ECF274F4493}&dist=hplatest
oh oh...
Should I be comforted by this?
A word on Vanguard money market funds
The recent bankruptcy filing by Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and widespread turbulence in the financial markets have prompted a number of questions about the impact on Vanguard funds, including money market funds.
Vanguard is confident in the stability of its money market funds, all of which are managed with the objective of maintaining a stable net asset value of $1 a share.
...
Our largest money market fund is Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund, which currently holds more than half of its assets in U.S. Treasury and federal agency securities. In addition, Prime Money Market Fund has no exposure to money market instruments issued by securities dealers, including Lehman Brothers. It also has no exposure to securities of AIG, the insurance concern that is being supported by loans from the federal government.
Holdings of Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund (as of 8/31/2008)
U.S. Treasury: 36%
U.S. Agency: 17%
Certificates of deposit: 32%
High-quality commercial paper: 14%
Repurchase agreements: 1%
I have about 150K sitting in what I thought was "cash". This seems OK to me, but if you think otherwise let me know. There are probably other vanguard investors reading, so I thought it would have general usefulness.
I poked around in historical paper spreads and IIRC this is about the level of the early '80s recession (maybe a bit higher) Not the end of the world, although certainly bad. Unfortunately I forgot to save the link so I'm trying to track that info down now.
Months ago I switched from Vanguard prime MM to their Treasury-only MM, despite the pittance yield. Am glad I did now.
Just a little math to get heads around this:
CP is coupon, unlike bills, but if it WERE discount, the difference between par and price is
((rate/360)*days to mat)
So, a 280bp rate on 90 day paper would be 280bp/360*90 = 70bp, so the price reduction would be 0.7% of face value.
MM funds generally run very close to the buck, so that's how the buck gets broken.
Idea for a new T-shirt, replacing
"he who has the most toys, wins", to
"He who gets out first, wins"
lol
daveg, for what it's worth, I had ( as of yesterday) about the same in VMMXX. I went to the Vanguard site and read that VMMXX can hold up to 25% in CP of FINANCIALS. Nuff said.
I exchanged it ALL as of yesterday to VMPXX. If that breaks the buck we are all FUBAR.
just my .02
GS at $86/share. Rapidly approaching their IPO priceof the late 1990s.
This seems OK to me, but if you think otherwise let me know
Why take the chance?
TP+CP=PP
McCain calls for Cox to be fired. There's a start.
Whoopsie, no, this is bad. Here's a report from the Richmond Fed which has a chart of prime-to-medium CP spreads back to 1974. Peak was just over 150 in 1974. The 80's peaks were about 130 and 140. So the current numbers - twice historical peaks from very severe recessions - are very, very bad.
Derivatives are the destructive threat to the entire global system. I've just started researching and attempting to understand the implications.
Have derivatives became an all consuming beast? Why can't these positions be allowed to end without continuing to take new positions?
Isn't it likely all these positions have cascaded into overwhelming default and the entire system has defaulted and no one will admit it?
FE,
That is truly scary...
There's two big risk factors here:
1) If there are MM runs to the point they have to temporarily suspend redemption, the public's panic and loss of confidence would be hard for the Fed to control;
and
2) CP is always refinancing, and corporations working capital depends on it; that's what the name means: the paper funding commerce.
If the CP market locks up, the FED can step in to provide interim liquidity to the banks to loan to corp's that can't access the CP market, or they can again invoke 13(3), the provision that allows the Fed to lend to anyone.
One way or the other, the Fed HAS to get the CP market unfrozen, if they can, or the virus spreads from the FIRE sector to the real sector.
The law of unintended consequences...
daveg- I switched to the Vanguard Treasuries Money Market back in December as I was worried about the credit crunch largely from reading this blog among others. I gave up a little yield but I have been sleeping like a baby over the past few nights.
If anyone knows of, or finds a site that provides an aggregate CP refunding schedule, please post it.
Real knife fight in the Yen/Dollar cross atm...
Newbie writes:
we are f**ked. The economy is going to be in for a severe contraction.
Newbie | 09.18.08 - 12:24 pm | #
That's not me. I am the orginal "newbie" w/o caps.
J.P. Morgan Chase stops trading with Citadel Investment in dispute over hedge fund's hiring push. Full story to follow shortly.
J.P. Morgan stops trading with Citadel on hiring feud
Citadel has hired a number of J.P. Morgan's capital markets bankers since the start of this year which J.P. Morgan executives contend violates contractual agreements with those employees, the Journal said.
One way or the other, the Fed HAS to get the CP market unfrozen, if they can, or the virus spreads from the FIRE sector to the real sector.
At this point we're in a liquidity trap and the Fed has to inflate. Barring the possibility that this is a very brief panic and will clear up in a day or two, we're in for a depression. Not necessarily a great depression, but a depression. Right now we're heading into ye olde-fashioned Fisherian debt trap where nobody buys assets because they're going to drop in value causing them to drop more in value, etc.
The solution is to run inflation high enough that the asset value of cash is also dropping, and somewhat faster than the economy as a whole, so that people will actually buy stuff and there are markets to work out exactly how much each asset will have to be marked down. Of course you don't want inflation higher than that because the inflation will cause waste and dislocation. But a mild inflation will produce far less dislocation than any depression.
12:18 *PUTNAM SAYS DECISION DOESNT RELATE TO OTHER PUTNAM FUNDS
12:17 *PUTNAM SAYS ACTION RELATES TO PRIME MONEY MARKET FUND
12:17 *PUTNAM, TRUSTEES BELIEVE ACTION IN BEST INTERESTS OF HOLDERS
12:17 *PUTNAM SAYS FUNDS NET ASSET VALUE AT SEPT 16 WAS $1.00-SHR
12:17 *PUTNAM SAYS FUND EXPERIENCED SIGNIFICANT REDEMPTION PRESSURE
12:17 *PUTNAM SAYS FUND HAS NO EXPOSURE TO LEHMAN, WAMU OR AIG
12:16 *PUTNAM CITES REACTION TO MARKETWIDE LIQUIDITY ISSUES
12:16 *PUTNAM SAYS ACTION NOT RELATED TO PORTFOLIO CREDIT QUALITY
12:16 *PUTNAM FUNDS BOARD VOTES TO CLOSE FUND
12:16 *PUTNAM ANNOUNCES FUND CLOSING, DISTRIBUTION OF ASSETS
12:16 *PUTNAM ANNOUNCES FUND CLOSING, FOR PUTNAM PRIME MARKET FUND
also:
Bank of New York Mellon has just announced that a $22 billion institutional money fund which it manages has broken the buck because of exposure to Lehman Brothers.
Timm, don't sleep easy, no one gets out of this alive!!!
" R. Timm writes:
daveg- I switched to the Vanguard Treasuries Money Market back in December as I was worried about the credit crunch largely from reading this blog among others. I gave up a little yield but I have been sleeping like a baby over the past few nights.
R. Timm | 09.18.08 - 1:16 pm | # "
Turn it upside down and it would be cliff diving.
Looks like pole vaulting to me.
Great chart!
What stock is this? Can I buy that stock?
Looks like a great stock to buy! More gains than buying google at IPO!
I'm sure this post is frightfully interesting, but pretty much the only things I could understand from it were:
a) this is indicative of a lack of liquidity
b) this is very unusual
If someone is feeling generous... what is "paper" in this context? What is actually being -measured- in that chart? What is an example of a past systemic liquidity problem I could google and read about, so that I can get some sense as to what the implications might be?
Is this at all related to the Asian markets crashing, or separate? If related, how?
If you're not feeling generous, don't mind me... when I can understand posts on this blog, it is some fine stuff.
folks, it's time to get acquainted with something called GE Capital. we may be hearing as much about it in the next month as we heard about AIG in the last month.
GE Capital leases a lot of airplanes (they build engines so there is a tie-in). They also do truck and car leasing as well.
But, they are known to be pretty conservative group.
At this point we're in a liquidity trap and the Fed has to inflate. Barring the possibility that this is a very brief panic and will clear up in a day or two, we're in for a depression. Not necessarily a great depression, but a depression. Right now we're heading into ye olde-fashioned Fisherian debt trap where nobody buys assets because they're going to drop in value causing them to drop more in value, etc.
exactly, fe. yesterday treasury sold a pile of t-bills and put the money on deposit at the fed to expand their balance sheet. do that some more. it's your last best chance.
B. Dewhirst: Briefly, "paper" here means unsecured short term IOUs of corporations. In the old days, they were actually physically printed as bearer instruments just like currency, but of course no more. Corporations fund their working capital: accounts payable and payroll, mainly, with this.
This is not related to Asia. This is related to the flood of non-govie securities being offered for sale as funds scramble to reduce their perceived risk (and real risk, too, but to a far lesser degree).
That locks out corporations that have to come to market to "roll over" their IOU's.
Generally, CP funds quarterly. This is Sept: end of a quarter.
Fair Economist: I'm not a practicing economist, so I'm asking: is it even possible to inflate out of a liquidity trap? Doesn't the deflationary vortex that got the system there just send the excess money into further deleveraging?
B. Dewhirst: I'll do the best I can with a couple of your questions.
""what is "paper" in this context?" Short term (always less than 9 months, but usually only 30 days) loans for companies, basically used to smooth cash flow.
"What is actually being -measured- in that chart?" The difference in the interest being charged to "good" paper (i.e., from very sound company with virtually no chance of defaulting since the loan is for such a short time, such as 30 days) versus "bad" paper (i.e., from a not quite so sound company whose chance of defaulting is a little higher, although still not that high since, again, this is a very short term loan). As Fair Economist pointed out, the spread here is the biggest it has ever been (at least going back a few decades), showing that there is great fear by lenders to loan to anyone who might not be considered virtually default-proof.
Note: this is not my area of expertise (at all), but that is my understanding of this. If I've screwed something up, someone else please chime in to correct it.
they are known to be pretty conservative group.
they lend long and borrow short, have big arms in mortgages, car leasing and consumer finance, and are heavily levered. they could be a big problem soon.
See, this is Bernanke's worst nightmare: credit disruption begets corporate insolvancy begets layoffs or missed payroll begets spending curtailment and savings/hoarding begets ... well, we all know the rest.
That said, the system has actually been staring into this abyss before. Twice in 1970 alone, in fact. The Fed was able to bring it (CP market) back to life then, and probably other times as well.
It ain't over yet, but it is dangerous.
Generally, CP funds quarterly. This is Sept: end of a quarter.
We saw the same issues last year. Money market funds wanted to "tidy" their books before they were required to file quarterly reports which disclosed holdings.
That way they can deliver high yields to attract clients (and bury their fees) at the same time they look like a sleepy, low-risk fund.
Thanks, CR, great post.
You mean it's a bad time to look for startup money?
As very new to all of this, the blog threads are very puzzling to me.
(1) is "visitors unline" just for its particular original posting, and another posting has it's distinct "visitors" count?, and
(2) is the dynamic that most everyone leaves one thread and goes to the other when there is a new posting?
As a Japanese gentlemen with whom I used to work in NY used to say, "I am confusing."
@Austin Tex:
Yes, they can inflate to the extent that they can "helicopter" in money, which means give it to people directly. The normal way is to fund the federal government through the inflating cash. Theoretically they could also make loans directly to the entities that need cash (ie issue A2 paper and such themselves) although I don't see how they could set up the institutional expertise and infrastructure to do so on such extremely short notice. They could also take over a failing institution that does this and use their structure and expertise although that would create massive crowding-out problems because other institutions would have to transact business in competition without the Fed's backing, which I would think is impossible.
So IMO the best approach is to start printing money for federal operations. They should start immediately because although that's a big hose they can't use all of it and they may need a lot.
The trick, I think, is to do it more like a currency depreciation where they dump out a lot of money quickly, drop real asset values, and stop. If people expect ongoing inflation that will create nasty additional pressures on the banking system.
40 billion is about 5% of M0 and should be enough if it's used to inflate. The way the 40 billion was described sounds like they were trying to sterilize it or maybe even pull out the cash. The problem is making it feed through fast enough, which could be very tricky.
@Austintex: I didn't know about the 1970 CP freezes. Got any links I could look at?
Don't know about links, but the two instances were
(1) the BK of the PennCentral railroad, which was induced by their inability to roll over their CP, which in turn threatened the collapse of the CP market on Monday (the BK was on a Friday night),
and
(2) the failure (surprise, on a Friday!) of what was at the time the fourth largest broker, whose name I do not remember.
One good source, and as an economist, even more of a understandable read, is the book (out of print) by "Adam Smith" (Jerry Goodman) named "Supermoney."
It documents the 1970 incidents, and others, in the chapter "The days the music almost died." 38 years ago, and then again, the same.
Thanks for the clarification. Makes much more sense now.
Fair Economist, BTW: thanks for the explanation. I need to re-read it, of course.
Vanguard has all these ship and sailing analogies in its materials. They urge their sailors to stay the course thru at least a moderate level of sea-sickness. But what to do when the whole globe is pea green and leaning over the rail to retch, they don't quite say. I think John Bogle (Vanguard founder) would be brave. Anyone who has chosen the kind of heart operation he has had is brave.
I'm with the Vanguard Prime MM, Vanguard's long term treasuries and a tax-free bond fund (NY). I'm worried, but will stick w/ all for now.
Here's a true story for you about dumb luck investment decision making. My little firm had weakening revenues for the past 2 years and so earlier this year we determined to liquidate the firm's invested savings to have them available for ongoing operations. This has proven to be a nearly miraculous decision. The investment savings we sold were in AIG and a few other financial stocks. By dumb luck (and we are kinda dumb about this stuff) we somehow sold those securities before they tanked. Our investment advisor stayed in those stocks himself and rode them all the way down.
I think generally if your decisions in the short term are based on thrift, you might survive better than if you panic.
Austin Tex: The name of the securities firm that went bust was Drysdale. This led to big concerns about repo market and ability to liquidate repo collateral in event of bankruptcy.