NY Times: Congress Stunned by Warnings
Submitted by
CalculatedRisk on Fri, 09/19/2008 - 2:47pm (354 comments)
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I am stunned that they're stunned.
Stuff you don't learn at the congressional gym for $500...
Who's on deck tonight for BFF? Er, Bank Failure Friday?
Maybe they should've been paying attention to Ron Paul after all...YA THINK?!?!?!
i'm stunned that you're stunned that they're stunned
How can you get a bailout if you dont scare people....it worked I guess.
my mother keeps her money in treasuries because she considers them safe. Should she now move the money to higher yielding money markets which are now government insured and will other people do this, making treasuries fall?
Ron Paul is a crazy gold bug! /snark
hence days away from a complete meltdown of our POLITICAL system as well... Interest group politics will bring us back to this spot again in time.
that were literally maybe days away from a complete meltdown of our financial system,
So...what are we now? Weeks?
My pony has arrived dead
But having just learned of it, they'll pass a financial Patriot Act without reading it sometime around Wednesday of next week.
How the F do you go from "its contained" to armageddon???
I've been trying to ignore the possibility that our economy is going to blow out for a couple of years now. I was pretty much convinced of it 1 1/2 years ago, but it never really panned out. I guess my timing is just off.
Democracy does not benefit a stupid people
Larry K saying rumors are congress will give Hank unlimited budget authority to 'fix' this mess... 'yes' I guess they are spooked just a skosh.
I think my knees are getting weak.
You gotta be kidding.
WTF were they thinking?
Don't we pay them to pay attention?
As Todd Harrison's grandpa used to say repeatedly, "Where you stand is a function of where you sit." For those who sit in congress, standing at the vanguard of foresight is positively dangerous, what with voters tendency to shoot the messenger and all that.
All eyes to the rear, it's safe waters back there!
rumors this rumors that...this country has become a joke. I think I am going to move to Zimbabwe, at their I know its financial aramageddo
Not at all surprising when you consider the intellectual capacity of the average member of congress.
Dryfly:
I think my knees are getting weak.
People in the Treasuries market would appear to agree with you.
When asked for a comment, Senator Christopher J. Dodd said, "I am stunned, just stunned... we have been sending people ponies but they keep arriving dead. We don't know what to do... Everywhere I look, all I see is dead ponies..."
So we give more power to the fools who brought us to the brink?
I'm stunned that you are stunned that they are stunned by stunning news. There... that should end it.
What else do they know that put a "days away" time line on this? Is the Treasury out of money? Are some countries going to dump dollar denominated financials? What say ye?
We, the frog, have finally been boiled away.
I'd say Ben and Hank, docile tools of the Neocon reactionaries, used Iraq-war techniques to stampede the Congress into doing what they wanted. One should not forget the scare tactics (all lies of course) used to drum up support for the Iraq War. This is the same administration and so it isn't surprising they might well use scare tactics (and lies?) to frighten the Congress into a dupable condition. Just speculating, of course.
Gambling? I'm shocked, etc. etc.
"It's amazing how long it takes for some people to realize what is happening. There were plenty of warnings."
HA! Wait until the Bush Administration presents Congress with a 600 page telephone book of legislation that needs to be passed "immediately" in the dead of night without anybody in Congress or the press to read what the hell is in there:
A big, fat giveaway to the morons who created and profited from this mess, and who now want to enact the "superfund," but this time at taxpayer expense.
Look out! There will be all sorts of finger pointing and threats if this enigma isn't passed "immediately." Witness the FISA legislation, war authorization for Iraq, and over and over again.
Where is my bank failure? I sure hope FFDIC was not pulling our leg
I wonder if this means vacation is cancelled.
I bet not.
You know it's going to be a thrilling ride to hell when your blogger is working harder on the problem than those tasked with fixing it.
Thanks so much CR.
That does put a dent into my trading thesis that Congress wasn't entirely onboard and would dissolve into pre-election partisan bickering... thus causing the bottom to continue to fall out.
Now we have to consider that they might rush into something without any careful evaluation of second- and third-order effects: unintended consequences.
Net effect will be similar but the timescale is now longer.
What a bunch of pussies. Just like the American voter. God, I sound like Jas now.
Thanks to this blog and patrick.net when I started a new job in mid-2006 I kept my 401K in the MM plan. I only made 2% or so, but that's better than LOSING 10-18% of my retirement principal in these funds over this term.
They've managed to reset the doomsday clock on the S & P back a week. We'll see if it sticks.
SOP, here, when you think about it.
DeNial is not a Big River in Africa.
Thankfully, I am not and never was looking for solutions from Congress, Bush, or Ben. I thought early on that Paulson would find 'religion' as have one of Britain's treasury officials, and be bold enough to state it makes no sense to try & prop up housing at unsustainable price points; and to stop playing the 'mood & confidence' game with Wall Street.
No need to comment on the prospects for leadership on this matter from Barack or John. If the subject isn't tax cuts or NAFTA, they are AWOL.
We the American workers, taxpayers & voters will muddle thru this crisis at different speeds, based on how battered our sense of denial is. We may be operating on the 15-yr version of the Japan Playbook.
Thank god I got religion from Nourial Roubini 9 months ago.
Comrade Missed Information writes:
My pony has arrived dead
Very Funny!
Congress stunned ...WTF are they also living is a reality distortion bubble like Bush and McCain or just pretending ?
We must have been "days away" from Goldman Sachs starting to lose money.
Democracy does not benefit a stupid people
Corollary: A people get the democratic government they deserve.
w - that is the key, there was no way they would let GS fail, no way! Once they were the next domino the "Armageddon" card was used..
Maybe this is why our founding fathers envisioned a republic with limited powers and no taxation.
If you can so easily dupe the numbskulls once (Iraq war) why not do it again when it suits your purposes? So easy; so convenient. Just go for it. A Congress of morons and a nation of suckers.
In fairness - a year ago I was talking with my family - you are talking about well educated and well read people... multiple masters degrees, doctorates in econ history, lawyers.
We were discussing prospects for the up coming election... I told them then (more than a year out - while the 'surge' was still a baby) that by the time the election came around the economy will have blown BOTH Karina AND Iraq COMPLETELY off the front page - it will be back there with recipes & obits. It will be finance & econ 24X7 everywhere all the time.
They thought I was nutz. Not anymore.
This reminds me of something Sgt. Mom wrote in a different context:
@Jonathryn: "HA! Wait until the Bush Administration presents Congress with a 600 page telephone book of legislation that needs to be passed "immediately" in the dead of night without anybody in Congress or the press to read what the hell is in there"
Exactly. Which lobbyists are writing the bill this time? What stealth provisions are going in?
No Mas!
Great, hold a secret session off the record, with no media or cameras, to scare Congress shitless. A fine flock of sheep we have elected.
This isn't how a democracy is supposed to work. It reminds me of the Clinton impeachment, when it looked like they might not have the votes to impeach him in the House, they held a secret meeting to whisper allegations of the Juanita Broadrick rape.
What's scarier:
Americans having to stand in line to get their money;
A coup-d'etat with the US constitution turned into toilet paper.
Does this mean Ann Margaret's not coming?
yeah! days away from financial system meltdown! bailout urgently needed!
BTW JP Morgan is at 52week high....
Yahoo! Mail
Senator, This is a fast ball K. Fw: I reckon the deception leading to: Meltzer Calls Paulson Plan `Social Democracy at Its Worst'
Friday, September 19, 2008 4:11 PM
From: Ed
To:
"Senator Jim Bunning c/o"
--- On Fri, 9/19/08, Ed wrote:
Subject: I reckon the deception leading to: Meltzer Calls Paulson Plan `Social Democracy at Its Worst'
To: "Allan H Meltzer"
Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 3:24 PM
Prof. Meltzer,
Deception: We live in the country where these very compelling, candidate-future-inferring, real asset price histories are kept out-of-sight -- please see first chart here
Real Dow & Real Homes & Personal Saving & Debt Burden at
Real Dow & Real Homes & Personal Saving & Debt Burden
I respectfully ask you to consider getting these histories to the peoples ongoing attention.
There are two (one-time only) precedents.
from WSJ 3/30/99
http://homepage.mac.com/ttsmyf/begun.pdf
NYT 8/27/06
- NY Times
How do we overthrow congress, why no impeachment, why no criminal charges against ratings agencies, wall street execs, sec chairman, ofheo head..so on so on...
Would it be prudent just to take my 50K in unused cc balance to get what I want now since greed seems a big winner here?
I'm disgusted as my daughter has been handed a raw deal...
crispy& cole writes:
How the F do you go from "its contained" to armageddon???
exactly!
I guess they were "stunned" too?!
are these people actually thinking... ever?
"Larry K saying rumors are congress will give Hank unlimited budget authority to 'fix' this mess... 'yes' I guess they are spooked just a skosh." -- dryfly
Congressonal recess starts Sep. 26. If this isn't solved before then, Congressional members may not be able to campaign for reelection! Unlimited budget authority, anything you need, Hank, full speed ahead!
Off to a good start.
Can't believe the average comrade not to mention the average Comradecongressperson has not a clue what's going on?
I'm leaving here in 15 minutes and taking a long ride with a local board member of a nice little regional bank. Whattaya wanta bet he has NO CLUE that the institution he's invested in just had the angel of death pass over.....for the time being; the time being.
Ever consider that 1000 is the threshold # for noteworthy participation in this blog? Lessee that leaves @ 349,999,000 other comrades out there busily rootin for their favrite NFL team or Nascar driver.
What makes you think the "average" joe has a clue?
I'm waiting for the leaks... they'll come. The Washington press corps isn't much, but they'll be after this one.
cd, you will have to be willing to die for it. You and many millions of other Americans.
WASHINGTON - Struggling to stave off financial catastrophe, the Bush administration on Friday laid out a radical bailout plan with a jawdropping price tag a takeover of a half-trillion dollars or more in worthless mortgages and other bad debt held by tottering institutions.
Speaking of Goldman, what's wrong with thins modest proposal:
To be included on the short-sale ban list, a CEO must agree to give back compensation over $1m reaching back two years.
Now, is that so hard to push through? Could we all agree that if your company is in danger of being shorted to zero perhaps, just perhaps, the CEO has some blame in the matter?
If this proposal were implemented, imagine how many CEO's would be asking to get OFF the list. Those left would be dying of shame, of course, but that's just icing on the cake.
Congress is asleep at the switch. That's what a decade of taking financial industry campaign contributions will do to both sides of the isle. If only we had a real two party system!
If GS goes down, then a Harvard MBA becomes a worthless piece of paper, then all the other "masters of the universe" become f'n janitors.
Right now every lobbyist has his hands in the cookie jar trying to get their piece of the RTC2 bailout...this will be the biggest transfer of wealth in the history of this country
I am expecting total armageddon, but seeing this in the NYT makes me physically ill. It's like the opening of a Clancy novel.
Pete- "So...what are we now? Weeks?"
Conjure says, "Hours."
Failed Bank Information Information for Ameribank, Inc., Northfork, WV
Doesn't matter what they do now, confidence is shattered.
If we don't move back to a gold standard soon, it all crashes anyway, just a matter of time. Then, we reboot on a gold standard.
Gee, who woulda thunk that a fiat currency could fail. It's always worked so well over the last 5000 years.
We are DOOMED!
BANK FAILURE!!!
Failed Bank Information for Ameribank, Inc., Northfork, WV
420 online. Best news all day.
Bubble
bubble
YUmmy....http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html
"The average age of the world's greatest civilization has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence. From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back into bondage."
Alexander Tyler circa 1787 re the
fall of the Athenian Republic.
Hey, at least nobody's poisoning our food supply:
"China's food safety crisis widened Friday after the industrial chemical melamine was found in milk produced by three of the country's leading dairy companies prompting stores, including Starbucks, to yank milk from their shelves. The recalls come as evidence is mounting that adding chemicals to watered-down milk was a widespread practice in China's dairy industry...Melamine, which is high in nitrogen, makes products with it appear higher in protein. Suppliers trying to cut costs are believed to have added it to watered-down milk to cover up the resulting protein deficiency. A senior dairy analyst said farmers were cutting corners to cope with rising costs for feed and labor."
Shoddy school construction, poisoned milk, poisoned air...how much longer will the Chinese proletariat put up with this?
Currently..- "I am expecting total armageddon, but seeing this in the NYT makes me physically ill."
Conjure says, "Currently, this is 'it.'"
"COME TO JEEEEZ-US."
It's Armageddon!!! The financial markets are crumbling! It will be Great Depression 2, only 10 times as worse! You can still save us, just sign here, here, and initial here.
Read it?
Debate it?!?!?
THERE'S NO TIME!!! We're all gonna lose money & we're all gonna die!!!
w,
Everybody dies but not everybody lives...
i'll fight, having spent a minute or more held down underwater by several big sets on the north shore, it ain't that bad...
Roubini wasn't the only voice. For non experts, one of the best warning sources was right here.
I've been reading CR daily since 2005 and I recall that the warning posts commonly ended with the phrase "it's gonna be really ugly."
It is now really ugly.
Conjure says, "Currently, this is 'it.'"
I was giving it til at least Wednesday.
OK, time to look for silver linings here.
Conjures repeats his previous offers.
He will solve this crisis with considerable savings for the taxpayer.
He wants a jet, a satellite phone, a pony, a rusty pair of pliers, and immunity from prosecution.
And $500 billion.
Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back.
Wow the old mushroom cloud trick. What was it Bush said? Fool me once....
mp: I repent.
I don't really want any more bank failures.
This isn't nearly as fun as it sounded.
Now I just want it to stop.
My God... I've eaten the brown acid.
I wonder if it's true that I'll never come down...?
How does the market rally on this? Hank and Ben say, essentially, that we're moments away from a complete economic meltdown and this is perceived as good news? So... those guys have known all along how to fix it, they just wanted a dramatic entrance for their new plan? Scary.
spork writes:
Failed Bank Information for Ameribank, Inc., Northfork, WV
give me a break! 100M$ in assets!
Now less than 1T$ we are not interested!
It is clear we have to cancel the November election. The country is in no shape to go to the polls; doing so would divide this nation at the very time it needs to pull together.
The country that prays together, stays together.
Hey, remember, the Democrats that are quoted in this article are Dodd (Hedge funds in CT) and Schumer (NYC).
They're not stunned. They're not THAT stupid. They're front men for the boys with power.
It plays to their interest to play up the threat and go along with legislation that benefits their benefactors.
Forget Dodd and Schumer -- their acting just as you'd expect.
Why are Pelosi and Reid going along with this?
And spare me the obvious insults and the stereotypes.
What motivates Pelosi and Reid to hitch their wagon to Bernanke and Paulson? Simple fear that they'll be blamed for the blow-up?
Thanks to sites like this that provide real objective information I was able to save my 401K and ESOP from complete DOME....really! The company I worked for was trading in the 40's (I thought was Crazy at the time)...left my Job after 20 yrs for the ESOP...the stock to trade less than $ 4.00.
Thank you, Thank You THANK YOU!
Just proves a few things.
Dodd and Schumer have a vested interested in delivering a massive bailout to the constitutes and donors. They are trying to do a big sales job via the quotes they got into this article.
Let's get a quote from some people in places directly HURT, not helped, by the bailout.
central_scrutinizer--Naw. It's being sold to main street as "Did regulators avert Great Depression II?" (msnbc.com Video Player. Everyone will hail dubya's collection of cronies as the best thing since sliced bread.
Tiny bank fails:
FDIC: Failed Bank Information - Bank Closing Information for Ameribank, Inc., Northfork, WV
that were literally maybe days away from a complete meltdown of our financial system, with all the implications here at home and globally.
People need to get out of the office and spend more time outside anyhow.
The only financial system you really need is a shotgun and a safe full of gold.
Quit being such a bunch of sissies.
bakamogo writes:
yeah! days away from financial system meltdown! bailout urgently needed!
BTW JP Morgan is at 52 week high...."
good point
and when you look at monthly charts fom 1990 (considering as well as daily charts over last week) you start feeling that next week will be quite interesting.... it may be worth cancelling a vacatio
Pioneer Community Bank, Inc., and the Citizens Savings Bank Acquire All Deposits of Ameribank, Inc., Northfork, West Virginia
WTF - FDIC could have saved that bank from their petty cash fund.
On September 19, 2008, the FDIC was named as Receiver for Ameribank, Inc., Northfork, West Virginia by the Office of Thrift Supervision. All deposits were transferred to the acquiring institutions; for further information, please visit the FDIC web site: Ameribank (http://www.fdic.gov)
Ameribank in Northfork Wv just was taken down by FDIc
BTW JP Morgan is at 52 week high...."
And SRS looks like it might have hit an all time low (or at least got really close).
jim writes:
I'd say Ben and Hank, docile tools of the Neocon reactionaries, used Iraq-war techniques to stampede the Congress into doing what they wanted. One should not forget the scare tactics (all lies of course) used to drum up support for the Iraq War. This is the same administration and so it isn't surprising they might well use scare tactics (and lies?) to frighten the Congress into a dupable condition. Just speculating, of course.
jim | 09.19.08 - 7:13 pm | #
jim - I'm as skeptical of this administration as anyone - but I don't think they over hyped the problem to congress... I think they've covered up and papered over the problems for a long time hoping the clock would run out and the next gang have to deal with it. They ran out of time - now they are coming clean... I think.
Do they have any more orifices to pull rabbits from?
dryfly
Disaster Capitalism ...
"""A big, fat giveaway to the morons who created and profited from this mess .... Look out! There will be all sorts of finger pointing and threats if this enigma isn't passed "immediately." Witness the FISA legislation, war authorization for Iraq, and over and over again. ""
I tend to agree with Comrade Jonathryn. We're not turning Japanese, we're turning Soviet Russia Meltdown... This may likely be 'Disaster Capitalism' at its finest.
Thanks for the early bank failure. It lifts my spirits at least a tiny bit.
From prior thread -
Cap'n Midwest Product writes:
"CathyG: do comment sections get included in Google caches? And are they kept as part of archive.org's internet project?"
I have no idea but I don't trust the longevity of server based media. I'd feel better for future generations if there were hard copies archived somewhere.
Not that we ever learn from our mistakes with or without written histories.
i'm stunned that everyone is so stunned that i get..........
first
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
YouTube -
I'm pretty confident that whatever momentum McCain had after the convention has vanished. Obama is playing it safe, which is his tendency. But with 7% unemployment in many parts of the country, and 80%+ thinking that we're heading in the wrong direction, this election is Obama's to lose.
Just proves a few things.
Mr. T.
George Carlin , blogging from the heaven?
heard on Bloomberg today about the bailout ...
" We have to sell this to the public"
"What motivates Pelosi and Reid to hitch their wagon to Bernanke and Paulson? Simple fear that they'll be blamed for the blow-up?"
Yes, plus they're looking at solid gains in the election, and don't want to take any risks that might hurt their chances.
Cheer up, it doesn't have to be just one bank. Maybe Ameribank is the appetizer and the Great Beast will feed again this evening. Otherwise, you know, what will keep the volcano from wiping out the village?
Give us WaMu, the crowd exhorted!
How many people bet Paulson and Bernanke were wearing depends most of this week?
So what is the difference between Enron and the banks today? Timing is indeed everything!
Enron Was Ahead of Its Time
You have to feel bad for those poor souls which ran Enron. They were years ahead of their time, they were just unappreciated as clever geniuses. If Ken Lay and crew had only waited a few more years, history would regard them as savvy players that used the whole "systemic risk" pocket aces to great effect.
Those poor Enron guys. While they were attacked for accounting fraud, Fannie Mae had their purchase caps lifted and was able to operate for 2 years without a single shred of quarterly reports. I mean, falsifying earnings reports is bad, but now that is the new good! Too late for Enron.
Enron used wild and complicated derivatives bets to lever up their small initial working capital into a mammoth, if hollow, money base. At the time this was panned as dangerous but today it is known as the investment bank business model. Again, too late for Enron.
Enron hid losses and wildly exaggerated their asset values using internal parameters that had no basis in the real world. Now this is currently known as "Level Three Asset Accounting" and "Mark to Model" pricing. Again, just missed by a sliver of geological time! Poor fools.
Enron shopped around for a buyer to help them survive, but after looking at their books there were no takers. Once again, we see that the Enron model was not wrong, just early. Today we have the FED and Treasury forcing mergers and buyouts for insolvent institutions, and when that fails they just bail them out themselves.
I think it is clear that the so called scandal that was Enron was something else entirely. I think Enron was punished and attacked so harshly because they exposed the clever plan the banks had for screwing the US taxpayer into paying for their never ending party. Enron was early once again, and paid the price. Their model was then copied and amplified to arrive at the point in time we are now at. I am not writing this to be funny. There is no material difference between Enron's behavior and that of today's players. Sick? Yes. Sad? That too. Basically what we deserve for being the losers that vote in fools? You bet your ass.
get ready folks ...
start reachin' for that jar o' vaseline ...
Otherwise, you know, what will keep the volcano from wiping out the village?
Little late for that now, isn't it?
Conjure says, "Hours."
mp | 09.19.08 - 7:23 pm | #
Yup - I thought the same thing yesterday... we were 'there'... within hours or even minutes from the ugly trading floor panic scene magnified on Bloomberg terminals around the world.
If this deal doesn't get done this weekend - plunge city Monday. Something will get done... good, bad, in-between... something will get done.
Just found out the other day that a fellow I went to high school with and smoked weed with is now a Very Very High Level Mucky-Muck at Lehman. Not going to name names.
In some obscure way I now feel that I'm partially responsible for all of this.
Here is an idea -- let's create a super SIV and dump all the crappy, worthless assets in there all the while pretending that these same assets are worth beau coup bucks! Then find some real dumb smucks to buy it!
Sometimes ya gotta think outside the box --
Conjure says, "Hours."
Hmm... headlines next week: "Congress deadlocked on TARP."? "McCain accuses Obama of Short-selling the Economy, wants new SEC chief to investigate."? "Manic-Depressive Market Skyrockets Off A Bridge"?
I'm thinking back to the discussions about all those "antiquated" regulations when the current regulatory regime was being created.
History doesn't apply to us, man...it's a bunch of old stories about dead people.
It's all different, now.
Comrades,
Another high asset-to-loss ratio. Ameribank had $115m assets and the FDIC expects to lose $42m making depositors whole. Surely this bank needed to be shut down a long time ago. This is becoming a pattern; there must be a heck of a lot of banks out there with huge losses and the FDIC just hasn't gotten to them yet.
imagine this was just the end of it?
cr posts a housing price chart that shows a clear reversal, sunni and shiite hug in the streets, iran starts importing bikini's, oil drops, markets go sky high, global warming ends!?!?!
USA! USA! USA!
hahahahahahahaha
Here is an idea -- let's create a super SIV and dump all the crappy, worthless assets in there all the while pretending that these same assets are worth beau coup bucks! Then... force by law anyone who has worked in a bank the last decade making more than 200k a year to buy shares in it until it's been bought out.
Sounds good.
Still say they'll hold out for no dividends, no bonuses, till you compensate for any loss going out 10 years. Just buying time. Equity holders bald.
Matt,
I like it. I am going to think about that and hopefully dream good dreams tonight.
vegas have a line on the melt down yet ?
So once again what does capitalism look and act like in a de facto plutocracy ?
You just saw it this week where Comrades Bush, Paulson and Bernanke 'officially' welcomed You to the USSRA (United Socialist State Republic of America)
Roubini Global Economics (RGE) Monitor
Socialism is indeed alive and well in America; but this is socialism for the rich, the well connected and Wall Street. A socialism where profits are privatized and losses are socialized with the US tax-payer being charged the bill which this week is about $1 Trillon.
We stash the trash, but we know where you live. Both parties can claim credit.
mmckinl writes:
heard on Bloomberg today about the bailout ...
" We have to sell this to the public"
we know they were likely not "stunned"
but it is the same old alternative: either they were stunned (and incompetent), or they are lying... agai
Headlines I'd like to see next week:
Fed proposes swapping MBS for shitburgers
FBI raids Federal Reserve, in sweeping money laundering probe
Congress and Supreme Court dissolved under new authority granted to Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson
NC
Freudian slip ...
@Comrade hopeinsd:
"Dodd and Schumer have a vested interested in delivering a massive bailout to the constitutes and donors. They are trying to do a big sales job via the quotes they got into this article.
Let's get a quote from some people in places directly HURT, not helped, by the bailout."
You mean like California (Pelosi) and Nevada (Reid)?
Whoops, never mind.
Now we know why they're including themselves in the article...
Where are the Senators from the non-bubble states? Wyoming? Nebraska? etc.?
How many are needed for a filibuster to get some real debate on this thing? 40? 41?
Oh come on guys and gals, nobody could have foreseen...airplanes flying into buildings, levee's failing, or our entire financial system collapsing...I mean nobody that was looking the other way anyhow...
"Why are Pelosi and Reid going along with this"
Payback will be a bitch. Wait till the Dems start spending next year. Universal healthcare is a done deal IMO.
"If we can save Wallstreet, we can save the poor, the middleclass etc."
The real spending has yet to occur.
.
well once a snail catched me from behind by surprise!! i can understand the senators fully...
With this article they have all thier bases covered.
If this papers over the problem for a while they can take credit for helping to sovle the crisis and if it fails they can say they were mislead by Bernanke and Paulson.
What a bunch of weasles.
Bush now needs to wag the dog.
Not to mention x,000,000,000,000 spent in iraq
Comrades,
When the Duma meets with Premier Paulson, grab your ankles and take strong swig of Stolichnaya!
Heres a clear ATROCITY -- except for the news media identifying it as such, because they are the biggest part of it.
In my post above
Ed | Homepage | 09.19.08 - 7:19 pm | #
I note
Deception: We live in the country where these very compelling, candidate-future-inferring, real asset price histories are kept out-of-sight -- please see first chart here
Real Dow & Real Homes & Personal Saving & Debt Burden at
Real Dow & Real Homes & Personal Saving & Debt Burden
How about this cash flow explanation for the foregoing deception:
Over the past 60 years, the U.S. financial sector has grown from 2.3% to 7.7% of GDP.
from
Skill Biased Financial Development: Education, Wages and Occupations in the U.S. Financial Sector
Remember that the news media are overwhelmingly funded by paid advertising?
All together, we have decisive testimony to, in our nation, the brainwashability of the people when the news media are well-bought.
well this will make for family conversation over the weekend ...
OBTW ... our country is bankrupt ...
I am just a lowly bartender but I do get a good sense of what J6P is feeling and thinking. They are AWARE. That trillion dollar price tag has caught their attention and just about everyone of them is irate. I've been telling them for a long time we were headed for disaster and they just call me a looney leftist
(I'm on the panhandle of Fl., deep in Bush country). They've had it. I fear anarchy is not far away if this goes down badly...
Kung Fu Panda writes:
Hey, at least nobody's poisoning our food supply:
That YOU know of...
anyone else notice that once paulson's old firm got a little close to the edge the whole thing got scooped up and handled??
cr needs to have a betting post on how many ceo's do time, it's going to be a shitstorm when those books get cracked.
the real heist of the american people doesn't start until these guys walk free. free and filthy f******' rich.
"I am expecting total armageddon, but seeing this in the NYT makes me physically ill. "
Yes, of course. These things never happen - and if they do they never happen to us.
My landlady looked down from her window above Taganskaya one day in 1991 and saw main battle tanks parked along the curbs.
Her father, S. L., had been head of the Party Control Commission and also Director General of TASS. One day toward the end, S. L. went to the Boss and told him that vast sums were disappearing from the Party accounts. He was responsible and didn't know what to do.
Go on with your work and don't worry, he was told.
S. L. went on holiday afterward and drowned during a diving accident.
Some months later his daughter received a telephone call, anonymous, with dreadful news about her father's diving accident.
And so on...things that never happen.
It seems to me that the monsters which inhabit our dreams are beginning to rise toward the surface of waking life. Who do we know of who can grapple with demons?
MP and Dryfly:
Are you saying that Jas might not have been too far off the mark?
Kung Fu Panda writes:
"Hey, at least nobody's poisoning our food supply"
Monsanto, duder. It's a horror story.
So question for all the geniuses on this blog.
What happens if/when this latest gambit fails to sooth the credit markets or perhaps is less than accomodating to Paulson's strong dollar policy?
I mean with this move hasn't the Fed and Treasury went all in? What else do they have left?
How would you like to be a Lehmen employee? You missed the gravy train by a week!
.
John Ashcroft showed up just a couple weeks after 9/11 with the 120 page long Patriot Act. Do you think it was entirely written in the elapsed time? Or did he perhaps already have it ready to go and was waiting for a crisis to get it passed without objection? Think this TARP was constructed from whole cloth in the past couple of days or was it perhaps conceived a while ago, and this "crisis" is being used to get it effected?
My tinfoil hat is getting worn out, perhaps its time to think about moving to France...
Mr. T, they're not all in, we still have trees to make more paper from...a printing we will go...
"Who do we know of who can grapple with demons?"
CONJURE BAG.
Mr. T.
economic meltdown ...
buy enough food and have enough cash for at least two weeks until tey nationalize thee whole friggin' financial system like should have already.
What happens if/when this latest gambit fails to sooth the credit markets or perhaps is less than accomodating to Paulson's strong dollar policy?
Treasury yield blowout of epic proportions.
I guess the "October Surprise" is early... The Iranians are probably breathing a sigh of relief that they aren't it.
gpblank- "Are you saying that Jas might not have been too far off the mark?"
Conjure says, "What planet have you been living on the last five years?"
Please excuse Conjure. Anyway, Jas is full of good intentions by seeking to "spread his gospel."
Treasury yield blowout of epic proportions.
How long do you think we have? I suspect we start to see it before Dec 31.
Byzantine_Ruins
where do you go from treasuries ? overseas
GLD has no gold, just paper ...
There is a 1% chance that Chuck S. is an honest man. (I have met him) He's gonna demand at least the dividends, in escrow. Take it or leave.
"How long do you think we have? I suspect we start to see it before Dec 31."
How about Monday? It now depends on the news. So, don't sneeze. Or, anything else.
Sorry MP misread the conjure bag.
corporate and Munis still frozen ...
matter of time before companies, even good companies run out of cash ...
How long do you think we have? I suspect we start to see it before Dec 31.
Depends on how long the gasoline-huffing euphoria hangs on. Maybe as early as Wednesday, not past late October in any case. They are going to have to have really massive fundraising operations and soon.
I feel sick.
I feel like I have absolutely no control over my life and my finances.
Our government is all powerful and corrupt.
I feel sick.
mmckini: The trust [GLD], which issues securities backed by gold, now holds 655.1 tonnes of bullion...
SPDR Gold Trust bullion holdings rise 4.5 tonnes
| Reuters
Please this is nothing more then a PR release. Why didn't the Senator's demand BB& Hanks resignation immediately, come on, the Congress is simply saving their friends and nothing more or less. The only people stunned are Asian creditor's the American sheeple will believe anything the MSM pushes out.
oil at 200 by Halloween?
Ken:
I don't think 9/11 is a good comparison. A huge chunk of stuff in the PATRIOT act had been on the FBI's wishlist for years, so they just recycled it.
The bailout proposals look rushed to me, but maybe that's just because I think they're rather stupid. However the treasury and fed must have realized the magnitude and seriousness of the problem by at least the middle of this year. If they'd listened to Roubini, they would have known in 2006...
Thursday was just a dry run, within minutes of financial seizure even after all the central banks dumped hundreds of billions ...
now stocks will shag the rest of the money supply ...
where do you go from treasuries ?
BunkerrrrrrDoooommeeee
"I feel sick."
Conjure says, "Lighten up. Buy yourself a box of Macs and fifth of Glenlivet."
Enjoy.
There's nothing to do but drink Beer now.
In the immortal words of Homer:
"mmmmmhmmm, Beeeeeer"
Troy
GLD payout is in dollars ... read the fine print ...
How can these people say they are "stunned"???
Jesus. I knew this was coming down the pike, and I don't know SHIT.
...this election is Obama's to lose.
Take it from an indie (or swing or whatever term you like) voter who has been right every prez election going back to Reagan-Mondale - Obama is toast. He's got the same wishy-washy campaign style that did in Kerry.
Unless McCain does something incredibly stupid, we're headed for the VPILF years.
You know a year ago I was watching the fairly predictable outcomes in our economy/credit/equity markets with a lot of amusement and confidently thought that I would be able to substantially increase my kitty of chips by the time we were through it all.
After what I have seen in the past 24 hours now I am not so sure. I am starting to think that we are all going to be a lot poorer before this is through with very few exceptions.
The Iranians are probably breathing a sigh of relief that they aren't it.
That you KNOW of.
gpblank writes:
MP and Dryfly:
Are you saying that Jas might not have been too far off the mark?
gpblank | 09.19.08 - 7:50 pm | #
Jas attributes it all to evil doers and born bred dopes... I'll sign up for the second part (ya we're dopes - but so is everyone)... but the first part is a bit trickier.
I'd say it is a thin line from 'evil' to so 'self-interested' that the system fails. Think 'Atlas Puked' not 'Atlas Shrugged'. I think we are closer to the 'overly self-interested' than 'evil'.
I think the mass grab fest for 'whats mine' coupled with us 'dopes' not paying attention to the whole system almost brought down the temple. It still might come down if we don't get some leadership & our shit together - I give it 50:50. I bet conjure thinks I'm wildly optimistic.
I'm hoping the crisis clear minds - it always does for me.
Greenspan's Left Nut
McCain will be Hoover II ... the fascists are looking forward to it ...
Comrade Kristina @ 7:48 pm
great to hear more J6Ps have finally had enough of Republican policies who they have been brainwashing them into voting against their own self interests since Reagan and stealing their futures.
Now its clear as day with the assclown Bush admin and what they hear from McCain/Palin pablum sound bites.
all this and i'm in meeting today with the developers of the washington dc waterfront, a multi billion dollar project, and they were very confident that their initial $90MM slug of equity was going to be no problem at all.
not a problem at all i tell ya
"I'd say it is a thin line from 'evil' to so 'self-interested' that the system fails."
What's the difference between 'evil' and 'so self-interested.'?
I ain't tryin' to be funny or nothing but what did our dear leaders use to get us out of the last GD? WWIII anyone? I doubt very much Iran is breathing a sigh of relief, they're probably getting the vapors...
After conferring with my chief economic advisor Phil Gramm I have decided to adopt a broad stance toward the economy,and I urge all americans to do the same.
McCain will be Hoover II ... the fascists are looking forward to it ...
mmckinl | 09.19.08 - 8:05 pm | #
Its a job unfinished... plus he has a dam named after him - how cool is that?
Glenlivet
Nectar of the gods.
Great minds really do drink alike.
Last fall, as I posted a weeks ago, I came to a back of the envelope half a Tril to a tril and a half loss in the housing mkt.
I am (was) in the real estate business. But I am a mere lawyer. I've never taken even an accounting course or an economics coure. So how come I could figure this out nearly a year ago, and the congresscritters couldn't? Too busy raising money from lobbiests?
Last fall every time I sounded the knell of doom, the hub rolled his eyes. No more eye rolling for him. One errand we did today was open another account with a bank other than WaMu.
Has FFDIC been heard from?
Its a job unfinished... plus he has a dam named after him - how cool is that?
dryfly | 09.19.08 - 8:08 pm | #
Oh and a vacuum cleaner. Awesome!
The dems can grab ground with some ass-kicking proposals... like making the decision makers at these banks pay back their bonuses to something useful, like the social security trust fund. It was outright thievery anyway. The money ain't theirs.
dryfly
Macy's has a sale on brownshirts ....
@ "On the Clock" Postponing the election.. You are slightly early... First the situation needs to simmer a little more and then all of a sudden the generalissimos Bush announces that in this situation, reluctantly he has decided to extend his final term by 20 years.
From the state socialism the next step is easily into National Socialism...
And you can bet, that everybody who ever has commented here is listed with your real names and addresses... Dissidents.
WASHINGTON - Struggling to stave off financial catastrophe, the Bush administration on Friday laid out a radical bailout plan with a jawdropping price tag a takeover of a half-trillion dollars or more in worthless mortgages and other bad debt held by tottering institutions.
ndlp | 09.19.08 - 7:21 pm | #
This is all horse Sh**. I didn't sign up for this God D*** Bull Crap.
So billions and billions more for the fat cat A-Holes that started this all? I just hand my tax dollars over to them with no Fing say!???
How is it possible that they don't get to take the Punch on the chin like the rest of us? WTF kind of country has this turned into?
I have to Laugh at Bernanke being all solemn and talking about armaggedon around the corner.
Oh and last Fing week everything was Fing fine???
He needs a kick to the head.
Just let me watch it happe
Gee lawyerliz, I'm a bartender and figured it out two years ago...Maybe we should be more prudent in who we elect? Maybe this will wake up the dopes and make them be more studious about what politicians do, rather than whether they like their hair or want to have a beer with them.
o really, just drink beer. and enjoy.
remember Hobbes or was it Locke?
life is nasty, brutish, and short
I read that Armand Hammer made his fortune by taking advantage of the new Russian communist nation. He figured they would need lots of pencils for their re-eduction schools so he started a pencil factory.
Well I figure the American people will need new clothes for the new America, so I'm starting on online clothing store called "The Cap"- short for "The Comrades Apparel Place".
My first item will be Hanky Panties which are high-end absorbent man-panties for stunned congressman.
"life is nasty, brutish, and short"
I resent that.
"As God is my witness, I thought ponies could fly!"
Comrade Kristina
never mind that ... what's the spread on the Giants game ?
mmckinl writes: "GLD has no gold, just paper"
Only true if you can overlook a few THOUSAND tons of the stuff.
"It still might come down if we don't get some leadership & our shit together - I give it 50:50. I bet conjure thinks I'm wildly optimistic."
Conjure says, "Dryfly, you're wildly optimistic."
All of is calling for pitchforks ... Nor Car has his ready.
If they're stunned, there's one simple form of defence: taser the banking industry with the stunning word NO. It will work.
Last fall every time I sounded the knell of doom, the hub rolled his eyes. No more eye rolling for him.
My wife was the same way - she's a mid-manager at a mid-size corp... I'm self-employed. Kept telling her it was a clusterf*ck in process... she rolls eyes.
This week she is prepping lay off lists. No eye rolling here now either.
If TARP alone is going to cost "hundreds of billions" then I guess we're past the point of discussing whether Shrub is the $10 Trillion Dollar Man...
The is absolutely no excuse for the pig-ignorance of congressional 'leaders' on both side. Even if they are stupid they are supposed to have staffs of people who pay a certain amount of attention.
The 'bailout' approval by congress is in no way a done deal. A few public estimates of the size along with the public perception that their money is going to bail out bankers and the fight is on. Paulson is just looking to buy time here; he has perhaps a week or so.
"Congress stunned by warnings"
In other news, I'm stunned that the Fing sky is Blue!
Man I am really really really angry
well at least my wife has the right idea, she just asked me what am i going to do to position us for the next upswing that will come out of this.
and she is totally right, these are the moments that great fortunes are born, out of the fog of disaster
mp writes:
"It still might come down if we don't get some leadership & our shit together - I give it 50:50. I bet conjure thinks I'm wildly optimistic."
Conjure says, "Dryfly, you're wildly optimistic."
mp | 09.19.08 - 8:13 pm | #
LOL - give him my regards. He's probably right.
dryfly, st paul right now.... buy ya a cup a coffee?
The worst financial collapse since the Great Depression is somehow a fitting end to eight miserable years under the worst presidential administration in United States history.
meltdown ?
what's the line in vegas ?
heh
...I have no, none. zippo, confidence that these nitwits will be able to stitch together a piece of legislation that will do the job. The margin for error on this is going to keep us all up at night....I am thrilled I know how to grow food.
"Unless McCain does something incredibly stupid.."
You don't follow the news much, I see.
Obviously nobody asks the right question when Bernanke and Paulson testify in Congress. They wasted their time.
Hope that an investigation of what happened here is more illuminating.
Finally, I hope Paulson and company don't sneak in some immunity provisions to whatever they are proposing next week. That would be a killer.
I dunno DC, this doesn't look like capitulation to me ... there is no blood in the streets. Unless Nor Car has left the building and is on the move somewhere.
McCain Dam. A nice sound.
Or is it McCain damned?
Currently Drinking Beer DC1000 writes:
well at least my wife has the right idea, she just asked me what am i going to do to position us for the next upswing that will come out of this.
and she is totally right, these are the moments that great fortunes are born, out of the fog of disaster
Currently Drinking Beer DC1000 | 09.19.08 - 8:16 pm | #
Also drinking beer - my plan for the upswing? Retire somewhere where the fishing is good... I think this one might take awhile.
All my plans have been set up for a 2010 upswing. Lately I'm having second thoughts. It could be later.
BigRig Driver writes:
dryfly, st paul right now.... buy ya a cup a coffee?
BigRig Driver | 09.19.08 - 8:17 pm | #
If I was there... 50 mile SE on the river. MN side.
with any luck the next upswing will be on the gallows ...
A veritable chorus of hoocoodanodes is what we get for our money.
well being a young lad, i've got time.
and kids. and mortgages and stuff.
i think the heads of lehman, bear, merrill, and AIG not to mention Countrywide, AMBAC etc, constitute blood in the streets.
Currently Drinking Beer DC1000
"i think the heads of lehman, bear, merrill, and AIG not to mention Countrywide, AMBAC etc, constitute blood in the streets."
yeah , they will probably apply for food stamps next week ...
"i think the heads of lehman, bear, merrill, and AIG not to mention Countrywide, AMBAC etc, constitute blood in the streets."
"Not enough, not nearly enough," said Conjure Bag, holding a single-edge razor blade and a paper cup.
I can't go long until someone is able to clearly tell me how earnings will be made during the next 10 years.
And if someone says more debt, we know who Hank or Ben is.
NY Stock Party anyone?? dress as bankers .. Indians have suffered enough..
DC, they are all sitting pretty. Not one of them ever needs to work another day in his life.
Yoringe
halloween will be the sanest day of the year ...
Nutty Greenspan Dude says:
"Obama is toast. He's got the same wishy-washy campaign style that did in Kerry."
You know, if you don't like Obama, fine. But we don't care here. We don't care about McCain vs. Obama vs. Palin vs. Monica Lewinsky. We just don't give a shit.
But if you're going to mention politics, at least pay attention to what's going on. At least, for the love of Activist Judges and the Sanctity of Marriage, watch what's actually going on for, what? How about 5 minutes.
Can you commit to 5 minutes of actually paying attention?
Sorry to all others.
Just get a bit put out when we hit 9.5 on the ignorance scale.
I mean, of all the complaints one can lodge against Obama, the guy says he campaigns like Kerry. Yeah, and he looks like Clinton. And he was a nuclear sub guy like Carter. Has a large Johnson like Johnson. Confined to a wheelchair like . . .
Just make shit up. And by all means, share your "thoughts" here, because we love 'em, cherish 'em, tuck them safely next to our breast, warmed by softy beating hearts, because you, Nutty Greenspan Guy, had a "thought".
Ah (changing tone) stop!
Enough with the mindless political shit!
GLD payout is in dollars ... read the fine print ..
That's fine. I wouldn't want to take delivery of it in London anyway, and as an American citizen I will always have substantial dollar-denominated debts to pay, no matter where I am.
ahhh...thought for some reason you were northeast of minny/stp..
Enough with the mindless political shit!
c_s started it LOL
Guess the bailout= about $3500 per citizen/$10,000 per household in the US, now thats spreading the pain around, now bad for a weekend of work.
Troy
until no one takes dollars
Kung Fu Panda writes:
Hey, at least nobody's poisoning our food supply:
Most of the strange unidentifiable ingredients on the side panel of your processed foods are made in China. American and European producers were driven out of production by low prices. Now I see more and more snacks foods in places like Costco coming straight from China.
And if someone says more debt, we know who Hank or Ben is.
M3 rose from $4T to $18T since 1994. We're good for another $20-30T over the next 15 years.
Enough with the mindless political shit!
5 Foot 3 Pablo Picasso
ntil no one takes dollars
the day the IRS stops taking dollars is the day you need guns not gold.
sue
that's the current bailout estimate ... that's the one they are selling to the public ...
it's much higher ...
btw contributed for the George W Bush library yet?? do it now or your dollar will be worthless..
I've been reading CR daily since 2005 and I recall that the warning posts commonly ended with the phrase "it's gonna be really ugly."
One of my old posts from 2005.
HaloScan.com - Comments
mmckinl,
I was just tallying this weekend who knows how high this is going to go.
Troy
last I looked M3 was crashing ... redemptions ...
the money supply is crashing ...
^ back when CR's comments were not telephone books
RTC I opened with an estimated cost of ~$20 billion IIRC...figure it will be a multiple.
last I looked M3 was crashing ... redemptions ...
YOY growth is declining but not M3 itself.
Money Supply - Growth and Levels
Strangemoney, I think it's you and several other of the commenters here that have given this place such a high signal-noise ratio over the past few years.
dr strangemoney was right on the money.
experts: when is M3 actually drained?
I understand the case of using a $100 to light a cigar etc.
also I suppose the Fed can do something to un-repo or whatever, but what is that?
its not the head's of the banks whose blood is in the streets, its the common. duh. and that blood has been let.
not to say there wont be more, much more, but that the blood is flowing now.
Troy
the first chart shows it rolling over ...
none of the charts show the velocity of money ...
rolling over from 18% YOY to 14% YOY growth.
whant to cringe or throw up!!
Bush Announces Massive Government Bailout | Crooks and Liars
WARNING! May cause your screen going broke..
^ gang of 4 indeed
This morning shortly before the open, I placed an order on etrade for a few shares of SKF. The order was executed right about at market open and continued to show on my account for the rest of the day.
Then, after market close, they reversed the trade. No real explanation. I'm pissed. They didn't even make the cash available in my account again.
Has anyone else successfully bought SKF today? Any experiences like this? Am I right to be pissed? What should I do?
Oh, and any suggestions on a good way to short the financial sector?
I apparently picked up 30 in the PM.
The AM market was totally screwed -- trading was halted for an hour or two -- so it's not surprising your trade was busted.
Better get some cash on hand as your ATM and checking account may malfunction for a few days.
sweet quote from another blog..
The crash of 28 led to runs on financial institutions by the people. The financial crisis of 08 is leading to runs on the government (we the people) by the financial institutions.
The fed was not stunned...they've known about the insolvency of the system for a year, but have countenanced the lies.
My FRE was up 40% today LOL.
at least you guys could f*cking trade online
fidelity was down for the first hour of trading today.
The fed was not stunned...they've known about the insolvency of the system for a year, but have countenanced the lies.
they were whistling by the graveyard. Which I would have done if I were them too. Honesty would throw over the traces.
dr. strangemoney, you should bottle that up and send it off to congress with a date stamp.
i'm better prepared for this horror because of CR, and Tanta, and commenters like you.
fidelity was down for the first hour of trading today.
td ameritrade sucked from 6:45 to 7:30.
Watching the Bush clip: so much for the "Bush Economy"
Americans, you just lived through a slow motion coup d'etat. It has been ongoing in earnest since Reagan. You just witnessed the coup de grace. This in a country that birthed itself in revolution against tyranny. Whose mythology celebrates, and claims to revere, independance, self determination, and freedom above all else. You will do nothing to prevent this coup. You will embrace it. You will follow, like whores, anyone that promises to pay you.
Your ancestors would spit on your graves.
yeah painfull to hear i tell you have to shower now to get the BS of me!!!
Comrade Food you know I picked up $20k at $95 just after noon.
Still showing in my account.
"Your ancestors would spit on your graves."
They already have.
thex should carve bushs head on the bottom of Mount Rushmore with open mouth and use it as public toilet!!!
With all of this debt and so many unfunded liabilities, we need new solutions.
It's really time we started considering mandatory national service. The country is broke and needs to be rebuilt. Since Medicare and SS are also problems on the horizon, we should begin drafting only baby boomers.
Baby boomers are used to being drafted and largely responsible for the mess we're in. They are a growing cost on society at just the time they are least productive, so we should put them back to work. Let them serve their country for room and board and put younger people in positions of power. This would also alleviate unemployment problems and give older Americans a greater sense of self-worth.
There is also no reason the elderly could not be drafted to serve in the military. Many are fully capable of doing desk duty or flying a UAV.
The baby boomers got us here, they should be held accountable. At the very least they should get out of the way and apologize for the mess.
ok, more off topic whining, but i cant help it.
i write software for a living. big, expensive, complicated enterprise software.
its not difficult to have an online system that can handle load, its really not. its trivial, actually.
take it from someone that knows, all these online brokers experiencing problems under load this morning is a complete load of crap. if they cant figure out how to keep a system from buckling under load, i seriously question all other aspects of their business.
sorry, just had to get that out.
With that congressional recess looming, do you suppose they will raise the debt ceiling by 10 to the 12th or 15th?...
ullpointer - great point.
And as an infrastructure architect, I have to agree.
washington dc waterfront,
DC1k-
Is that the Southwest waterfront development?
"I think this one might take awhile"
A wise man, and obviously not too young a man. The upward spike of the last 2 days means less than nothing; we still have not crashed and have still not squeezed the urge for speculation out of the system. The crash will come. After that there will be no need to hurry back into any investments, any more than there was in 1929 or 1930 or 1931 or 1932 or...
scotto, yep
I've seen this movie before:
General Buck Turgidson (George C. Scott) in "Dr. Strangelove" advocating preemptive massive action and the rubes in Congress actually fell for it unlike President Merkin Muffley (Peter Sellers) in the movie.
Heck, Casey Serin fans recognize "massive focused action" when they see it.
New thread up.
Finally, I hope Paulson and company don't sneak in some immunity provisions to whatever they are proposing next week. That would be a killer.
cars | 09.19.08 - 8:18 pm | #
That's why he's rushing it through. "Just sign it, the fine print is just the usual boilerplate."
Paulson to the taxpayer: "rollover so I don't have to see your face. And don't tense up, just relax."
No kiss or anything.
ullpointer,
the problem is not software or the hardware -- its 70s era networking protocols. another area in which the USSRA is getting left far behind.
Yoringe writes:
sweet quote from another blog..
The crash of 28 led to runs on financial institutions by the people. The financial crisis of 08 is leading to runs on the government (we the people) by the financial institutions.
Thanks Yoringe.
Here's another sweet quote:
"The crash of 28 happened in 1929."
Mr Paulson, does that mean the "covered bond" deal is off?
empty root:
couldn't disagree more.
"The crash of 28 happened in 1929."
5 Foot 3 Pablo Picasso
not my quote how could i change it
))
"Whose mythology celebrates, and claims to revere, independance, self determination, and freedom above all else."
Daniel Boone did pretty well as a trapper, but he branched out into land speculation, failed at every turn and became insolvent. Congress finally took pity and granted him a pension.
empty root:
let me add this:
i watched what came down the pipe, and what hung. i am discounting the static stuff from a CDN. the html right up until the dynamic data was lightning fast...then choke.
i REALLY REALLY think its incorrect architecture, lack of app/db boxes in the cluster, MIPS constrained LPARs, etc...all easily fixed with cash.
a stunned silence at first....
The Reichstag was pretty stunned too by the fire after which they voted Hitler his supreme powers. The GOP has learned however from Hitler. They didn't find it necessary to burn down the Congress. They just yelled that the financial system was on "fire" and melting down and the stampede was on.
From an AP business article:
"Experts say that the government's enormous plan to relieve Wall Street banks of their bad investments has a decent chance of stabilizing home prices, at least in theory."
That is a stunningly stupid statement that takes little thought to dispell. Are politicians as dumb as this writer? Sure are!
If the real plan was to 'stabilize' home prices, they could do this bailout by sending checks to everybody who was in default.. the effects would ripple upward and ultimately 'save' the banks. Of course, the stabilized prices would now be at an unaffordable level so there would be no housing market at all, but that could be goosed up by lowering mortgage standards and allowing liar loans and requiring no down payment and...
"Congress finally took pity and granted him a pension."
Didn't he help defend the place against marauding armies. Have I got the right guy? Might justify a pension if so.
dryfly writes:
Larry K saying rumors are congress will give Hank unlimited budget authority to 'fix' this mess... 'yes' I guess they are spooked just a skosh.
Well, if Hank isn't going to use a calculator why should congress?
Didn't he help defend the place against marauding armies. Have I got the right guy? Might justify a pension if so.
that might have been davy crockett. all those guys look alike what with their coonskin caps and all
"The Reichstag was pretty stunned too by the fire after which they voted Hitler his supreme powers. "
But it wasn't just the fire, I think - the SA was in the streets beating the **** out of people. There had been serious street fighting going on, with people killed.
Nothing like that here. Won't be, either.
Nothing like that here. Won't be, either.
Correct, everyone will be home glued to "america's got talent"
and allowing liar loans and requiring no down payment and...
and qualifying people on the teaser rates, and allowing neg-am (WTF?), and . . .
Heckuva job, Greenie.
w writes:
We must have been "days away" from Goldman Sachs starting to lose money.
w | 09.19.08 - 7:16 pm | #
The God forsaken truth
...
nullpointer | 09.19.08 - 8:47 pm | #
Big corporate IT guy, here...NP I have to say it's more common than you think.
How the WSJ is reporting it... New Heads For Mt. Rushmore...
On the positive side, we can now permanently give up the socialist/free enterprise semantic nonsense. Every economy since the Sumerians has been a mix of public and private enterprise. To produce an operating financial system for a big country you evidently need various individuals competing a little and cooperating a lot, backstopped by the entire population. Now how to divvy up the profits, if they ever return...
Reichstag?
Why can't Nazis just be Nazis?
I mean, why can't we just leave them alone in the 1930's and 40's?
Why do we have to equate just about everything to the Nazis?
Was it their color scheme?
Or was it their systematic, factory-like slaughter of human beings that makes them so easy to compare to our situation here today on September 19th?
Stock market slide? Nazis.
Bail out proposal? Reichstag fire.
Unseasonably cool weather? Panzer columns.
Ben and Hank's next Senate hearing will be the best political theater since Watergate, or Mcarthy.
"Unseasonably cool weather? Panzer columns."
Personally, I'd go with Gulfstreams = Panzer columns.
"Didn't he help defend the place against marauding armies. Have I got the right guy? Might justify a pension if so."
I think the pension was awarded basically for guiding migrants through the Cumberland Gap, being important in opening Kentucky for settlement, and for leading the defense of the settlers from the indigenous inhabitants. Boone was the popular epitome of the hunting, trapping, sharp-shooting, Indian-fighting backwoodsman. He seems to have been a pretty good guy withal, and much less bloodthirsty than one might suppose. He was hopelessly simple as a business man.
The only army he was actively engaged in that I recall with was Braddock's at Fort Duquesne, and that was a British disaster. Boone was a scout, and when he saw that Braddock had entered a trap, Boone got out of there fast.
People a few generations back would have known quite a bit about Boone. Eh?
I don't get how anyone is surprised by this failure! I have a hard time believing every asshat we've elected to 'serve' us was clueless. what they've done is served us a big pile of sh*t to pass on to our kiddies.
JJL :
Brilliant enron piece. Please reprint on other threads.