After this week, just watch the dollar and interest rates.....as investments come due, they will be redeployed elsewhere. Capital flight, coming on deck. Followed by capital controls.
I seem to have missed 10 and 11. I thought we were at 9.
Unless they happened since I left this morning at 6:30 a. m. After some medical tests and such we ate out and I bought a bunch of clothes from China. Just my way of bailing out our economy. That is to say, China's economy.
I have but half my life to give to Calculated Risk. The other half remains MINE. Mine I say, mine.
I was thinking of pulling my family's meager savings account out of the (smaller than this) bank as cash today... Perhaps I should have. I cannot now imagine what news can come over the weekend to make me feel safer about it Monday morning.
"With short sellers absent, shares will initially rise. But once demand is satisfied, there will be no softening any declines. This could potentially create a vacuum below market prices and exacerbate a decline.
So if the market goes kablooey, there will now be no shorts around to cover (that is, people buying stock just for the purpose of closing out a short position) on the way down, and thus the speed of the freefall will be even more rapid because there will be nothing standing in its way."
TARP was designed for WAMU et al. No biggies until they can announce a structure designed for containment. Plus letting something big be shutdown would put a damper on all those good "we saved America" vibes.
Try taking a walk through a random sample of pension funds. See how often the words "Lehman Brothers" shows up. See how many needed to make the numbers work even though they were not. So they went heavy into commodities.
FDIC,as I've said repeatedly, with the agreement of FFDIC, doesn't haveenough employees to shut WaMu. They need to ramp up, what? by 5X at least, maybe 10X.
Why in the hell are the losses so high on the last several FDIC seizures? Was it this bad during the S&L crisis?
Why do they leave the banks open for long enough to rack up such huge losses? How many banks out there right now already have massive unrealized losses, but are not being shut down?
Just how is this bail out gonna raise the price of houses, and give the American taxpayer money to spend?
The worst thing that could happen is for people to get spending money from their houses, because houses do not create wealth and any spending money that comes from houses is just another illusion of wealth.
Likewise for stimulus checks and any other kind of buying power that doesn't ultimately come from wages.
When people are spending money that isn't the product of some productive activity they've engaged in, then that spending is necessarily making them poor:
They're spending their wealth (or the nations wealth) without having the means to replace it.
And the longer this continues the more people become convinced that they don't have to develop marketable skills to keep spending.
People need to work for a living. Everything else is a path to poverty.
comrade ac - "People need to work for a living. Everything else is a path to poverty"
Don't kid yourself. Legalized theft, as was evidenced today on the floor of the wall st casino-grande, made a few people a lot of money today. They stole it from those that got scared shitless the CEOs would steal it all first and made a grab yesterday to what remained of their nest eggs. I will be shocked if avg peeps wade back in to swim with the piranhas.
More news on the scare the congress was given by Bernanke and Paulson:
AP
Emerging Details on Congressional Warnings
Develsyn Sydus, Associated Press Writer
Late this evening there were some details coming forth on the dire warning that Ben Bernanke and Henry Paulson had for congress in an effort to win support for the sweeping bailout bill.
Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) had this to offer;
"Chairman Bernanke made it clear to us all in no uncertain terms what a failure of AIG or Fannie Mae would mean for this country. He was frank in his explaination that the senate and the house members, faced with a credit crunch, would have to fly commercial first class instead of private charter jet. I mean, it was down right scary! I remember looking around at my fellow representatives and I could see the tears welling up in their eyes. We knew then, all of us knew, this simply cannot stand. We stood together as one, both democrats and those nasty republicans and endeavored to pass whatever bill the FED and treasury put in front of us. We will get this fixed, have no fear"
The bill is expected to be signed this weekend without any reading of the document at all. Check back later for updates.
My impression was that it wasn't so bad during the S & L crisis. A big part of the S & L crisis wasn't bad loans; it was that inflation caused the S & L's assets to be worth less because they were low interest rate fixed loans in an environment that they were paying more out in interest than they were collecting in loans. Not to mention the cost of running the S & Ls. The loans were not particularly bad at all, and they weren't going into foreclosure all that often. Things were slow, but not at a dead halt. New loans were being made at a higher interest rate. (and the first round of stupid neg am mtges, which all went into foreclosure. People had the excuse that they didn't know for sure what would happen, because this was a new thing. Wrap mtges were being made for those with the nerve to ignore the due on sale clause.
Business was happening.
Now, all our houses are in a sense level 3 because nobody is buying. If nobody is buying at any price, then there is no mkt, and stuff may as well be worth zero.
On Wednesday alone, investors had pulled more than $89 billion from money-market funds, according to iMoneyNet, publisher of the newsletter Money Fund Report.
Wow. The systematic bank run had started. - NY Times
The plan to offer insurance for MM funds made sense, but the rest of this is garbage. It is immoral to use taxpayer funds to buy distressed assets from for-profit firms without placing them in receivership.
Can someone explain this to me. TIAA-CREF, the massive teachers/university pension fund says this in its prospectus for the "Lifecycle 2010" fund:
"As of 6/30/2008,the 2010 Fund Composite Index consistedof:39.9% Russell 3000® Index;
34.5% Lehman Brothers U.S. Aggregate Index ;13.3 % MSCI EAFE® Index; 5.5% Lehman Brothers
U.S.Government/Credit (1-5Year) Index; 3.6% Lehman Brothers U.S. TIPS Index; and 3.2%
Merrill Lynch BB/BCash Pay Issuer Constrained Index. For an explanation of the composite
index, see reverse side."
Are these Lehman Brothers assets securities owned by TIAA-CREF or pieces of Lehman bad debt?
Carly Fiorina, disgraced CEO of Hewlett Packard and chief economic adviser to John McCain, was just heard on Bloomberg TV explaining that the current economic troubles are the fault of the Democrats in control of congress, based on their lack of oversight of Freddie and Fannie Mae over the past two years.
OK, I'm lifting myself off the floor and trying to get my eyebrows off the ceiling.
My impression was that it wasn't so bad during the S & L crisis.
You must not have been living in Rust Belt, Oil Patch or out on the plains - S&L was FAR worse for us out here than what we're seeing now... orders of magnitude worse.
During S&L they took states like Iowa, North & South Dakota, Nebraska... turned them upside down and shook 'em until people fell out. Most lost population even though the national population increased handsomely.
The part you forgot is: after inflation made their existing loan business (mortgages, basically) unprofitable, the S&L industry was deregulated in hopes that it would fix itself. The S&Ls promptly made a bunch of bad CRE and other types of loans, and that's where the real cost came from.
I am not an expert. Try looking for commisions paid by the pension fund. I think, if they paid 2 mil in commisions to Lehman then they bought a Lehman product. Or look for exact funds they invest in.
tiaa-cref- they allocate according to a lehman index, that is all. the lehman indexes still run, they are just recipes. Not that it would matter if they stopped.
dryfly writes:
My impression was that it wasn't so bad during the S & L crisis.
Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the question was regarding the 40-50% shortfall at this bank ($115M assets, but need $42M insurance to meet $102M in depsits). How bad were the losses at the S&Ls, typically?
Of course general conditions aren't nearly so bad as at the peak of the S&L crisis (I had relatives farming in Ohio at the time...ouch), but give it time.
That's the problem with having a centralized government and financial system in a highly complex integrated society. You've got single points of failure that can take the entire economy down in a single crisis.
It's kind of a basic engineering principle that this kind of system can be extremely fragile, especially when not subjected to routine stress testing.
Maybe one of the lessons from this mess is that we need to have a more decentralized financial system so a single failure doesn't take the entire nation down.
When an economy develops a vital organ, that entire economy can be ruined if that organ fails. And if there's no reason that organ needs to be vital (except to give economists a throne to aspire to), then you create the risk of systemic failure that has no offsetting justification and doesn't need to be there.
I think our financial system is too integrated (without sufficient buffers) and too centralized.
Likewise for our economy.
There's no reason every state needs to be doing the exact same thing as every other state. There's too much systemic risk that comes from everybody doing the wrong thing at the same time.
We should consider having more regional economic and financial diversity perhaps with redundancies in industry that make them somewhat more resistant to external shocks.
A truly global economy means that one day you'll almost certainly see the economic catastrophe that ends all economic catastrophes. We need to reduce international economic coupling by banning the Internet.
These interdependencies unmitigated are too dangerous until the computers get smart enough to run things for us in a couple of years.
BEIJING -(Dow Jones)- China's US$200 billion sovereign wealth fund Friday ruled out any plan to step in to bailout two major Wall Street giants, citing concerns about risks and regulatory hurdles.
China Investment Corp., which has suffered losses after taking a 9.9% stake in Morgan Stanley (MS) in December, said the bank and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS) can solve problems on their own as they have sound capital bases, the official Xinhua News Agency reported.
Goldman Sachs analyst William Tanona predicted Morgan Stanley shares could double over the next six to 12 months and said the firm was in no danger.
"While liquidity and funding issues may have plagued some of its peers, we believe Morgan has ample liquidity, no immediate funding requirements and access to a number of alternative funding sources if necessary," Tanona wrote
Stupid! Hank and Ben say it is Armaggedon within a few days!
they are trying to avoid armageddon...it was coming with the seizing up of money markets...you would have gone to the atm and your cash would have disappeared.
The farmers are the ones who have it good now.
lawyerliz | 09.19.08 - 8:50 pm | #
If they own the land. If they bought land recently they are fodder for the NEXT farm crisis.
As for Yalt's point about severity of the losses? Don't know. The fallout for the locals was brutal though in places like Waterloo Iowa - farm service AND farm equip mfg both blowing up simultaneously. I was around for that - I'll never forget it.
I was pulling the last couple of hundred from our WAMU account today, and they had run out of twenties to give me. I ended up with c notes and $2 bills. Kind of ironic metaphor.
Also, they LOST the lease to my safe deposit box. I had to raise my voice to see it. Nothing in it, but what a bunch of losers. They deserve to die.
If only I could be sure my new bank was safe... eek!
concerning the UST's usage of the Exchange Stabilization Fund to prop up Money Market Funds (where the need arises).
The number that has been tossed around today is that the fund has $50B of assets. That is true. However, the latest monthly statement shows that $14.8B is in EUR and $8.8B is in JPY. So to utilize more than $26B, they'll have to do some currency trading (at least from my simplistic read).
So, hypothetically speaking of course; should this fantastic, Mother of all Bailouts not actually save the World, would it be too soon to start hording seeds and how long do you figure I'll be able to squat on my...errr...I mean the banks..oops...mean the taxpayers land?
I didn't mean that houses should be used as atm machines. I meant that people who deserve raises aren't going to get them, hence less spending.
People need to have healthy incomes and raises. That's going to be the most important thing long-term in putting the economy back together. But that's going to be very hard right now because there's still and abundance of cheap labor around the world.
The things that are ultimately going to work though are:
a) Education and skill development of the workforce.
b) Political power of the workforce.
c) Individual and market freedoms that enable the creation of more opportunity (which doesn't mean we need the freedom to leverage 100 to 1).
I don't think we're doing very well in any of these areas right now.
Historically in America workers have improved their lot substantially by fighting for it. At times almost waging war to gain increases in opportunity and compensation.
These days it almost seems like people are resigned to seeing their real wages deteriorate. Sometimes I think people believe too much that politicians will solve these problems for them. They won't, even though they always promise they will.
If workers don't do anything about their weakening position, there's no reason to think things will improve.
The things that are ultimately going to work though are:
a) Education and skill development of the workforce.
b) Political power of the workforce.
c) Individual and market freedoms that enable the creation of more opportunity (which doesn't mean we need the freedom to leverage 100 to 1).
dc1k - yeah those bastages in the House of Representin' whacked the hell out of our budget , and because of the continuing res we'll have to live with it until a budget is passed (June, anyone?)
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The urgent need for the U.S. Congress to approve a Bush administration plan to rescue Wall Street has given Democrats renewed hope of enacting another economic stimulus package for Main Street, congressional aides said on Friday.
For months, House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other leading Democrats in Congress have been pushing $50 billion in emergency spending they say would spur the flagging U.S. economy.
Now, with Congress leaving town soon so that members can campaign for re-election on November 4, the likely passage of a Wall Street bailout requiring hundreds of billions of dollars could make it easier for Democrats to make their case that a fraction of that amount be spent to help the poor and middle-class.
"I can see it being one of the items up for discussion when Pelosi sits down with (Treasury Secretary Henry) Paulson. 'You want a trillion dollars for Wall Street? We need this for Main Street,'" said one House Democratic aide.
It is a lull so I would like to thank all of you. From here I was lead to Irving Fischer, Galbraith, Black Swans, attempts to read a prospectus, and a stab at Mises who was really, really boring.
At times posters, and the blog hosts, have written succint analysis that has opened my eyes. BTW, I have slept under bridges and the western states have the best.
"I can see it being one of the items up for discussion when Pelosi sits down with (Treasury Secretary Henry) Paulson. 'You want a trillion dollars for Wall Street? We need this for Main Street,'" said one House Democratic aide.
sweet, my next pony is on the way.
Having multiple kids is really paying off this year.
my bet is there will be a massive capital flight from the US!! after the short rule and the bailout i dont see how anyone want to be in the US market..
AFAICR, all the bars around me have a drive-thru window. One of them has a notice (on the inside, so the bartender can see it) that says "No mixed drinks thru the window!" You gotta wonder about the people they hire.
Out of morbid curiousity, and not because I'm some sort of Keynesian or anything but I wonder in the recesses of my mind if the 1 trillion spent on this latest round of shenanigans was instead spent on infrastructure, R&D, and possibly some weird Mars space race or something, might be a better investment than simply throwing good money after bad. You know, increase technology, research, job creation, etc.
It has to be better than pissing in the wind, like everyone seems to be doing now.
Nova, actually the lounge is attached to the liquor store and yes, the liquore store has a drivethru. It's truly a treat to bartend down here on the "Redneck Riviera"...
I was wondering when the wider implications would come to the fore. Official pronouncements - what there are of them - have had an isolated, domestic economy point of view so far.
Any recommendations for a disinterested source of advice about opening foreign bank accounts or otherwise trying to put my money someplace where the rats won't get it?
Comrade noob goldberg writes:
Out of morbid curiousity, and not because I'm some sort of Keynesian or anything but I wonder in the recesses of my mind if the 1 trillion spent on this latest round of shenanigans was instead spent on infrastructure, R&D, and possibly some weird Mars space race or something, might be a better investment than simply throwing good money after bad. You know, increase technology, research, job creation, etc.
Maybe school lunches? In DC we have kids whose last meal is Friday. Next meal is Monday at school. Holidays make those bellies growl.
Billy Hill writes:
Any recommendations for a disinterested source of advice about opening foreign bank accounts or otherwise trying to put my money someplace where the rats won't get it?
i live in Spain, send the Money i take care of it..
Comrade Kristina writes:
Nova, actually the lounge is attached to the liquor store and yes, the liquore store has a drivethru. It's truly a treat to bartend down here on the "Redneck Riviera"...
Comrade Kristina | 09.19.08 - 9:46 pm | #
A bet you have heard beautiful poetry issue from the lips of you clients.
Nova | 09.19.08 - 9:47 pm Maybe school lunches? In DC we have kids whose last meal is Friday. Next meal is Monday at school. Holidays make those bellies growl.
I agree, but that wouldn't be nearly expensive enough to make the news these days. What, maybe a billion if we included prime rib? Nah, we need to spend real cash in order to catch congress' attention. I figure the whole NASA moon race episode jumpstarted the tech race and made the USA a powerhouse in that industry. Similarly, something similar now wouldn't pay off tomorrow, but might be the ticket to a long term emergence from this.
I guess that kind of thinking is a little too forward for today's environment.
I was reading a Navy-centric blog that was discussing the effect of falling oil prices on Iran. They see Iran saber rattling to drive the price back very shortly. Nice timing.
What happens if the Chinese and others stop buying our Treasuries?
Does anybody think there is the possibility of the U.S. government going BK because of this?
When I had heard predictions of a collapse during September, they were tied to a complete collapse of the U.S. government in January '09. Wondering whether that scenario has basis, since the government is obviously taking on something which it doesn't have the ability to handle.
Comrade noob goldberg writes:
Out of morbid curiousity, and not because I'm some sort of Keynesian or anything but I wonder in the recesses of my mind if the 1 trillion spent on this latest round of shenanigans was instead spent on infrastructure, R&D, and possibly some weird Mars space race or something, might be a better investment than simply throwing good money after bad. You know, increase technology, research, job creation, etc.
It has to be better than pissing in the wind, like everyone seems to be doing now.
Comrade noob goldberg | 09.19.08 - 9:44 pm | #
That would never work... how would the money get to the bankers?
The meetings on Capitol Hill came as the banking lobby complained that the federal seizure of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had hurt commercial banks by devaluing their holdings in the so-called government-sponsored enterprises, or GSE.
"The unexpected losses to holders of GSE-preferred shares will inhibit a sizable number of banks from making new mortgages or providing other financing," the American Bankers Association president, Bradley Rock, said in a letter to Bernanke and Paulson.
Rock asked for "prompt, comprehensive action to alleviate the unintended consequences" of the takeover.
Moderator, you are doing a fantastic job, and I am strongly encouraged to pay my taxes this year. Is there a 'tip' box on my IRS return, because if there is you're getting it all, big guy!
wasnt there a law passed some weeks ago when you leave the USA for good for another citizenship they fleece you good??? talk a bout they didnt see it..
on side note : you can tell them you leave your 100k share of the debt behind..
Any recommendations for a disinterested source of advice about opening foreign bank accounts or otherwise trying to put my money someplace where the rats won't get it?
I talked to a nice lady at HSBC today who said they could set up an offshore account in Canada for you for ~$200. You can denominate it in Euros or several other currencies.
Bush has bankrupted, or otherwise driven into the ground everything he's ever touched. Oil companies, baseball teams, Texas, and now the whole damn US.
Do you think that the assassinations will start slightly before or slightly after the majority of people in your country belatedly realize how they and their children's children have been sold into serfdom.
Anonymous writes:
Bush has bankrupted, or otherwise driven into the ground everything he's ever touched. Oil companies, baseball teams, Texas, and now the whole damn US.
kis, I can't believe I'm saying this but Peter Schiff actually discussed this in his book. Something about EuroPacific Capital or something? I kind of fell asleep through the end there.
Head up to Canada for a nice fall vacation...watch the leaves change colours, drive through the forests and shoot small furry animals, and open a bank account. Afterward you'll feel right as rain.
Head up to Canada for a nice fall vacation...watch the leaves change colours, drive through the forests and shoot small furry animals, and open a bank account. Afterward you'll feel right as rain.
I found his comment from John McCain interesting...
"Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation. "
When it is impossible to pay back our pledges becasue we pledged too many hours of labor we are bankrupt. We can create the visible form of money just as a drunken bum can create another IOU but it does not change the fact that it is impossible for him to pay back his debts.
"From you children and grandchildren in the form of much higher taxes."
problem is you can't get high revenues from menial labor wages.
Comrade 4822
Here's the thing; the federal government has slowly, over the years, given states less revenue to pay for things the federal taxes used to help pay for and put that expense on the state to cover. So now the state has to come up with the money. Have your roads gotten worse over the years? Library cut their hours? Public broadcasting needing more donations to keep up the same programming? The list goes on endlessly. Federal money just isn't there anymore.
Where is the money for this going to come from? Doesn't it need to come from somewhere?
Excellent question. Simple: either taxes are raised or they issue more bonds to sell abroad. The big question is: what happens if there are no more buyers. Oops, interest rates will have to rise.
Comrade Kristina writes:
I found his comment from John McCain interesting...
"Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation. "
Comrade K - I've seen that quote many places. It shows the secret down homsey brilliance of Commissar McCain... it is really a backdoor way to get us all national healthcare... paid for by the Fed and Treasury Dept.
"If we don't do this, we risk an uncertain fate," Mr. Bernanke added. He said that if the problem wasn't corrected, the U.S. economy could enter a deep, multi-year recession akin to Japan's lost decade of the 1990s, or what Sweden endured in the early 1990s when a surge in bad loans plagued the economy and sent unemployment to 12%.
"If we don't do this, we risk an uncertain fate," Mr. Bernanke added. He said that if the problem wasn't corrected, the U.S. economy could enter a deep, multi-year recession akin to Japan's lost decade of the 1990s, or what Sweden endured in the early 1990s when a surge in bad loans plagued the economy and sent unemployment to 12
Bernanke should go back to his real job.. be busy on the 23th of december..
comrade crabsofsteel writes:
Where is the money for this going to come from? Doesn't it need to come from somewhere?
Excellent question. Simple: either taxes are raised or they issue more bonds to sell abroad. The big question is: what happens if there are no more buyers. Oops, interest rates will have to rise.
wrong on both. the federal govt does not get money from issuing bonds or collecting taxes. both are reserve drains. the govt spends by debiting the treasury's account at the fed and debiting a members account. all private sector savings are a result of public sector spending (deficits).
pelosi gonna sneak another $50b into hank&ben's bailout. Doesn't she know this one will do even less than the last one, which was barely a blip? What a joke.
Angry renter said: Wow. The systematic bank run had started.
Smart coworkers are pulling their money fast!
I love from your link: ''As we all know, lax lending practices earlier this decade led to irresponsible lending and irresponsible borrowing. This simply put too many families into mortgages they could not afford,'' Paulson said.
I LOVE it when the authorities slam that barn door closed with authority! After everyone has noted the horses are long gone...
But this week's bank... wasn't even a morsal. Its like being presented a peanut and being told that is the main entre'!
I'm thinking that the theory that the FDIC must hire before tackling WaMu makes sense. Ugh...
Obviously, the solution is to ban more short selling... which denies brokers revenue and capitol (as they hold onto the short money)... Yea... that won't destabilize anyone...
I tried to convince my family today to take advantage of the 8% bounce to sell their funds and get into cash. They all repeated the mantra, 'but we are not retiring for awhile, so it is better to ride through the bumps'. My attempts to tell them 'it is different this time' were futile against the years of brainwashing from wall street and bubblevision.
"Now would be a good time to legalize drugs and prostitution"
ac- Barney Frank beat you to the the punch. I think it was about two days after the F/F bailout that he came out saying marijuana should be legalized.
I'd said to a friend right after the bailout: they're gonna need more tax $$ to pull this sh*t bailout off. watch for legalized, taxable marijuana sales at shops, coupled with _illegal_privately produced pot (ie. no growing a plant in your living room).
Much like legal booze at gov. shops, illegal moonsine stills.
Next day, Frank comes out with this "legalize pot" stuff.
These pols are so predictable if you watch them closely.
o, indesputable like in the form of an accounting identity. the public sector deficit is exactly equal to the private sector surplus. you can not have private sector savings without the public sector being in deficit. the dollars come from only 1 source - the treasury. the govt has to spend dollars for you to accumulate dollar financial assets and pay taxes.
Thank you for staying alert. I am going to sleep. I will sleep better knowing you are out there. Just like the men and women of the USDOF SWAT team. Together, I hope you patrol the corridors of both the powerful and powerless. Keep us Safe! That is a heartfelft plea from a man who reconizes a hero when he reads one.
"no, indesputable like in the form of an accounting identity. the public sector deficit is exactly equal to the private sector surplus. you can not have private sector savings without the public sector being in deficit. the dollars come from only 1 source - the treasury. the govt has to spend dollars for you to accumulate dollar financial assets and pay taxes."
the govt spends by debiting the treasury's account at the fed and debiting a members account.
um, OK. So, either treasury or fed is going to have raise more money. are you saying that they don't have to raise taxes or borrow more because they can just print it?
CR please ban Moderator. He's clogging up the thread. It's simply insulting that he thinks we are so easily swayed. Although I guess shopping is good. And I think the economy is strong. Very strong.
I'll be back, just gotta go buy a few things. Now, what do I need?
It doesn't matter. I'll just do a little shopping. It'll make me feel more secure.
YLSP writes:
That was a nice head-fake by FFDIC. I couldn't believe wankers were asking him for more inside information...
YLSP | 09.19.08 - 10:33 pm | #
We were funning with him... no one expected him to actually tell us. Sheeesh.
Its embarrassing to admit that I was a target of a crime. I was drugged and had about $50,000 of personal items stolen, not the inflated number that the media is reporting from an inaccurate police report, he said.
Yeah...not that ridiculous inflated number. Everyone cruises around with $50k spilling out of them.
FFDIC writes:
"That was a nice head-fake by FFDIC. I couldn't believe wankers were asking him for more inside information..."
YLSP | 09.19.08 - 10:33 pm | #
Who is this Sean guy? If he really believes private saving are caused by government deficits he must have a powered tinfoil hat that draws enough power to dim streetlights in the adjacent county. Misean would be envious.
Hard to say, but at minimum we know it's a good time to buy or sell a house.
or possibly to build one. was talking to the lady that handles the state DAP-style program last night. She indicated that the builders in this area are hungry for work. The state DAP-style program (called SHIP) has a cap of $100K (land + structure). When you hear that builders are anxious to get into that market segment, you know they must be hurting.
Fair Economist writes:
Who is this Sean guy? If he really believes private saving are caused by government deficits he must have a powered tinfoil hat that draws enough power to dim streetlights in the adjacent county. Misean would be envious.
but admit its a good line.. the coming bailout will produce 1.5 trillion in savings..
um, OK. So, either treasury or fed is going to have raise more money. are you saying that they don't have to raise taxes or borrow more because they can just print it?
the treasury does not borrow money. thats like saying the ny subway system borrows tokens.
the treasury "issues" the money. when they sell bonds they are draining the excess reserves they have created when they debited their account at the fed.
if the govt want an aircraft carrier they dont go and sell bonds to get money for it. they dont wait for you to pay tax. they debit thei acct at the fed and credit the account of the shipbuilder. thats exactly how it works. obviously if they didnt sell bonds excess reserves would drive the funds rate to 0. the federal govt is not revenue constrained. spending can be inflationary but thats a seperate argument. the money doesnt "come from " somewhere like foreigners or some magic pool of dollars. if it did how come the deficit can keep growing in absolute terms- where did all those dollars coem from. they werent there 10 years ago and 50 years ago no one had 100 billion let alone a trillion dollars.
The whole financial system is f**ked
Anticlimax, but better than no climax at all!
ot worth mentioning!
it is a 0,01% tip in Hank's bailout!
That was a nice little snack... whats for supper?
After this week, just watch the dollar and interest rates.....as investments come due, they will be redeployed elsewhere. Capital flight, coming on deck. Followed by capital controls.
Unfncking believable.
And then price controls.
Hey Bush! Why don't you send f*ckin FEMA to Wall Street!!!
-wtf
It's a "what's the problem, I still have checks" economy. I predict a savers
strike....
Ameribank we hardly knew you...NEXT!
you'd think with the intervention we've already had that we would be at 1200 failures by now instead of 12.
Amazing that any banks of that size still exist.
I thought so. Next Friday the big names get folded under the TARP.
I seem to have missed 10 and 11. I thought we were at 9.
Unless they happened since I left this morning at 6:30 a. m. After some medical tests and such we ate out and I bought a bunch of clothes from China. Just my way of bailing out our economy. That is to say, China's economy.
I have but half my life to give to Calculated Risk. The other half remains MINE. Mine I say, mine.
Now would be a good time to legalize drugs and prostitution.
Pension funds are the next big sandal to drop as far as headlines and bailouts.
ac--and tax them.
I was thinking of pulling my family's meager savings account out of the (smaller than this) bank as cash today... Perhaps I should have. I cannot now imagine what news can come over the weekend to make me feel safer about it Monday morning.
Reactions of ordinary people to the current mess:
CDSs and you. | MetaFilter
See 'Malor' and 'Mutant'. They are both educated, but take opposing sides.
P.S. What's the status of WaMu? Will it fail before Monday?
Hey folks, I was offline all day.
Did I miss anything?
Just how is this bail out gonna raise the price of houses, and give the American taxpayer money to spend?
A rounding error...
ac--and tax them.
Let me guess:
You're going to want to tax my pony too?
Almost heave
From the link I just posted:
"With short sellers absent, shares will initially rise. But once demand is satisfied, there will be no softening any declines. This could potentially create a vacuum below market prices and exacerbate a decline.
So if the market goes kablooey, there will now be no shorts around to cover (that is, people buying stock just for the purpose of closing out a short position) on the way down, and thus the speed of the freefall will be even more rapid because there will be nothing standing in its way."
That seems to be right. Is it?
TARP was designed for WAMU et al. No biggies until they can announce a structure designed for containment. Plus letting something big be shutdown would put a damper on all those good "we saved America" vibes.
Try taking a walk through a random sample of pension funds. See how often the words "Lehman Brothers" shows up. See how many needed to make the numbers work even though they were not. So they went heavy into commodities.
podunk bank. WHere's my WaMu?
Beginning to think they keep WaMu's corpse on ice... cryogenics, until Hank's bailout machine start printing $1mm bills by the thousnds.
ameribank - where's that? victorville?
FDIC,as I've said repeatedly, with the agreement of FFDIC, doesn't haveenough employees to shut WaMu. They need to ramp up, what? by 5X at least, maybe 10X.
But it wasn't even publicly traded...how did the evil short sellers manage to bring this one down?
Notice the losses!
50% of assets, toast! Aye Chihuahua!
Thanks, lawyerliz.... I repeatedly forgot. Duhhhh.
I'm feeling woozy from drinking Chinese milk all week.....
Why in the hell are the losses so high on the last several FDIC seizures? Was it this bad during the S&L crisis?
Why do they leave the banks open for long enough to rack up such huge losses? How many banks out there right now already have massive unrealized losses, but are not being shut down?
"50% of assets, toast! Aye Chihuahua!"
Sheila didn't want to step in too soon. Heckuva job Sheila!
Dear Comrades,
Please line up now for your Glorious People's Bank Debit Card..your balance as of today is -$300 Trillion..don't spend it all in one place!
Do svidaniya!
WaMu is a zombie bank.
McCain wanted health insurance modeled on failed banking system! McCain on banking and health - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com
Just how is this bail out gonna raise the price of houses, and give the American taxpayer money to spend?
The worst thing that could happen is for people to get spending money from their houses, because houses do not create wealth and any spending money that comes from houses is just another illusion of wealth.
Likewise for stimulus checks and any other kind of buying power that doesn't ultimately come from wages.
When people are spending money that isn't the product of some productive activity they've engaged in, then that spending is necessarily making them poor:
They're spending their wealth (or the nations wealth) without having the means to replace it.
And the longer this continues the more people become convinced that they don't have to develop marketable skills to keep spending.
People need to work for a living. Everything else is a path to poverty.
c writes:
ac--and tax them.
Let me guess:
You're going to want to tax my pony too?
ac | 09.19.08 - 8:04 pm | #
Is your pony your prostitute?
So did other govt's by USDs today?
Why the strength?
I'm not sure I like the free market business.
avinunu writes:
McCain wanted health insurance modeled on failed banking system! http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com...ing-and-health/
avinunu | 09.19.08 - 8:24 pm | #
That guy is pretty smart - stealth way to get nationalized healthcare.
But it wasn't even publicly traded...how did the evil short sellers manage to bring this one down?
They violently pillaged the branches in West Virginia, even taking the calendars on the way out.
comrade ac - "People need to work for a living. Everything else is a path to poverty"
Don't kid yourself. Legalized theft, as was evidenced today on the floor of the wall st casino-grande, made a few people a lot of money today. They stole it from those that got scared shitless the CEOs would steal it all first and made a grab yesterday to what remained of their nest eggs. I will be shocked if avg peeps wade back in to swim with the piranhas.
More news on the scare the congress was given by Bernanke and Paulson:
AP
Emerging Details on Congressional Warnings
Develsyn Sydus, Associated Press Writer
Late this evening there were some details coming forth on the dire warning that Ben Bernanke and Henry Paulson had for congress in an effort to win support for the sweeping bailout bill.
Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) had this to offer;
"Chairman Bernanke made it clear to us all in no uncertain terms what a failure of AIG or Fannie Mae would mean for this country. He was frank in his explaination that the senate and the house members, faced with a credit crunch, would have to fly commercial first class instead of private charter jet. I mean, it was down right scary! I remember looking around at my fellow representatives and I could see the tears welling up in their eyes. We knew then, all of us knew, this simply cannot stand. We stood together as one, both democrats and those nasty republicans and endeavored to pass whatever bill the FED and treasury put in front of us. We will get this fixed, have no fear"
The bill is expected to be signed this weekend without any reading of the document at all. Check back later for updates.
**obviously a joke, but then again maybe not!
My impression was that it wasn't so bad during the S & L crisis. A big part of the S & L crisis wasn't bad loans; it was that inflation caused the S & L's assets to be worth less because they were low interest rate fixed loans in an environment that they were paying more out in interest than they were collecting in loans. Not to mention the cost of running the S & Ls. The loans were not particularly bad at all, and they weren't going into foreclosure all that often. Things were slow, but not at a dead halt. New loans were being made at a higher interest rate. (and the first round of stupid neg am mtges, which all went into foreclosure. People had the excuse that they didn't know for sure what would happen, because this was a new thing. Wrap mtges were being made for those with the nerve to ignore the due on sale clause.
Business was happening.
Now, all our houses are in a sense level 3 because nobody is buying. If nobody is buying at any price, then there is no mkt, and stuff may as well be worth zero.
FWIW- the pillage entry was me.
On Wednesday alone, investors had pulled more than $89 billion from money-market funds, according to iMoneyNet, publisher of the newsletter Money Fund Report.
Wow. The systematic bank run had started. - NY Times
The plan to offer insurance for MM funds made sense, but the rest of this is garbage. It is immoral to use taxpayer funds to buy distressed assets from for-profit firms without placing them in receivership.
most folk I talk to, interact with don't have a clue
yet
Can someone explain this to me. TIAA-CREF, the massive teachers/university pension fund says this in its prospectus for the "Lifecycle 2010" fund:
"As of 6/30/2008,the 2010 Fund Composite Index consistedof:39.9% Russell 3000® Index;
34.5% Lehman Brothers U.S. Aggregate Index ;13.3 % MSCI EAFE® Index; 5.5% Lehman Brothers
U.S.Government/Credit (1-5Year) Index; 3.6% Lehman Brothers U.S. TIPS Index; and 3.2%
Merrill Lynch BB/BCash Pay Issuer Constrained Index. For an explanation of the composite
index, see reverse side."
Are these Lehman Brothers assets securities owned by TIAA-CREF or pieces of Lehman bad debt?
http://www.tiaa-cref.org/pdf/fact_sheets/2010.pdf
I got my money in TIAA-CREF but not in that fund. I suspected pension funds were next, but no idea how to figure out the exposure.
I didn't mean that houses should be used as atm machines. I meant that people who deserve raises aren't going to get them, hence less spending.
OT -
Carly Fiorina, disgraced CEO of Hewlett Packard and chief economic adviser to John McCain, was just heard on Bloomberg TV explaining that the current economic troubles are the fault of the Democrats in control of congress, based on their lack of oversight of Freddie and Fannie Mae over the past two years.
OK, I'm lifting myself off the floor and trying to get my eyebrows off the ceiling.
Any news on Wamu auction? not much action it looks like...
avinunu: Those are indices, which are merely lists of securities of other organizations published by Lehman.
There's a town in WV named Northfork? What, no failed banks in Miller's Hollow or Coalbin?
My impression was that it wasn't so bad during the S & L crisis.
You must not have been living in Rust Belt, Oil Patch or out on the plains - S&L was FAR worse for us out here than what we're seeing now... orders of magnitude worse.
During S&L they took states like Iowa, North & South Dakota, Nebraska... turned them upside down and shook 'em until people fell out. Most lost population even though the national population increased handsomely.
Then there was Houston...
What, no failed banks in Miller's Hollow or Coalbin?
who needs loans when you can get $$$ out of a still?
YouTube - CareerBuilder.com: Monkey Business (Up - Down Profitability)
Destined to be greatly appreciated by the crowd. =)
Hummm, if we did go under,,,a lot of folks would find out what it was like to live under a bridge...lol
lawyerliz | 09.19.08 - 8:32 pm | #
The part you forgot is: after inflation made their existing loan business (mortgages, basically) unprofitable, the S&L industry was deregulated in hopes that it would fix itself. The S&Ls promptly made a bunch of bad CRE and other types of loans, and that's where the real cost came from.
avinunu:
I am not an expert. Try looking for commisions paid by the pension fund. I think, if they paid 2 mil in commisions to Lehman then they bought a Lehman product. Or look for exact funds they invest in.
JJL writes: obviously a joke, but then again maybe not.
Oh, Congress is a joke. Thats why they brought in the adults to speak to them.
Back on BFF - Must have been a drag for those FDIC guys... thinking they were bugging out for the West Coast & ending up in WV.
Oh well.
Would anyone here actually think that banks would ever learn a lesson,,,from anything..???
tiaa-cref- they allocate according to a lehman index, that is all. the lehman indexes still run, they are just recipes. Not that it would matter if they stopped.
dryfly writes:
My impression was that it wasn't so bad during the S & L crisis.
Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the question was regarding the 40-50% shortfall at this bank ($115M assets, but need $42M insurance to meet $102M in depsits). How bad were the losses at the S&Ls, typically?
Of course general conditions aren't nearly so bad as at the peak of the S&L crisis (I had relatives farming in Ohio at the time...ouch), but give it time.
1500 banks went under last time,,,proly the same this time,,,
whats wrong with that picture??
The whole financial system is f**ked
That's the problem with having a centralized government and financial system in a highly complex integrated society. You've got single points of failure that can take the entire economy down in a single crisis.
It's kind of a basic engineering principle that this kind of system can be extremely fragile, especially when not subjected to routine stress testing.
Maybe one of the lessons from this mess is that we need to have a more decentralized financial system so a single failure doesn't take the entire nation down.
When an economy develops a vital organ, that entire economy can be ruined if that organ fails. And if there's no reason that organ needs to be vital (except to give economists a throne to aspire to), then you create the risk of systemic failure that has no offsetting justification and doesn't need to be there.
I think our financial system is too integrated (without sufficient buffers) and too centralized.
Likewise for our economy.
There's no reason every state needs to be doing the exact same thing as every other state. There's too much systemic risk that comes from everybody doing the wrong thing at the same time.
We should consider having more regional economic and financial diversity perhaps with redundancies in industry that make them somewhat more resistant to external shocks.
A truly global economy means that one day you'll almost certainly see the economic catastrophe that ends all economic catastrophes. We need to reduce international economic coupling by banning the Internet.
These interdependencies unmitigated are too dangerous until the computers get smart enough to run things for us in a couple of years.
you will love that one:
BEIJING -(Dow Jones)- China's US$200 billion sovereign wealth fund Friday ruled out any plan to step in to bailout two major Wall Street giants, citing concerns about risks and regulatory hurdles.
China Investment Corp., which has suffered losses after taking a 9.9% stake in Morgan Stanley (MS) in December, said the bank and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS) can solve problems on their own as they have sound capital bases, the official Xinhua News Agency reported.
Rules of Engagement question: Is the correct spelling prolly or proly?
Rules of Engagement question: Is the correct spelling prolly or proly?
p-r-o-l-e-t-a-r-i-a-t
You are welcome, Comrade
gracias tovarich!
I thought Conjure had fangs. . .
Yeah, I'm in south Florida, not the midwest, and was in the S & L crisis.
I represented an S & L and lost my job as a result, but got a new one right away.
The farmers are the ones who have it good now.
You're going to want to tax my pony too?
ac | 09.19.08 - 8:04 pm | #
Is your pony your prostitute?
dryfly
Drug dealer actually.
He's got some gals working for him but I don't like to call him a pimp.
Thinking of him that way kind of ruins the appeal of a pony.
It's hearbreaking: I was so happy when I first heard the congress voted to send us all ponies.
Now I'm convinced they can't do anything right.
Ban the Internets ac?
Visitor numbers going down.
All is well. Or, all are drunk.
Goldman Sachs analyst William Tanona predicted Morgan Stanley shares could double over the next six to 12 months and said the firm was in no danger.
"While liquidity and funding issues may have plagued some of its peers, we believe Morgan has ample liquidity, no immediate funding requirements and access to a number of alternative funding sources if necessary," Tanona wrote
Stupid! Hank and Ben say it is Armaggedon within a few days!
Dear Barack-
Here, please hold this bag.
Thanks,
G.W.B.
they are trying to avoid armageddon...it was coming with the seizing up of money markets...you would have gone to the atm and your cash would have disappeared.
Sometimes ,,this is little more than watching paint dry...........
Goldman Sachs analyst William Tanona predicted Morgan Stanley shares could double over the next six to 12 months and said the firm was in no danger.
good script for a TV commercial
Think of all the renewable power generation and public transit we could have built with that $500B...
LOL scotto, that was wrong...yet so right...
Yup,,,,,time to mosey on,,,,adios
The farmers are the ones who have it good now.
lawyerliz | 09.19.08 - 8:50 pm | #
If they own the land. If they bought land recently they are fodder for the NEXT farm crisis.
As for Yalt's point about severity of the losses? Don't know. The fallout for the locals was brutal though in places like Waterloo Iowa - farm service AND farm equip mfg both blowing up simultaneously. I was around for that - I'll never forget it.
The fundamentals of the econdomy are strong.
Sounds like he was on top of it....
"and public transit we could have built"
transit mirrors finance - we still haven't figured out how to prevent head on collisio
"Forrest Gump" Hank and Uncle Bens will save us
Yup, Ameribank Inc. is tits up in the sewer.......
transit mirrors finance - we still haven't figured out how to prevent head on collision
Yes, there is both grand tragedy and irony in that horrible event.
Of course, we should not be running freight and passengers on the same rails to begin with.
ac writes: "Let me guess: You're going to want to tax my pony too?"
No, but they may want to tax that ass! Badda boom.
Its Texas ratio as of end of June was 366%. I guess Sheila becomes uncomfortable with anything over 300%?
Thinking of him that way kind of ruins the appeal of a pony.
For ac...
Pimp Ja Pony
Feel better now? I know I do...
I was pulling the last couple of hundred from our WAMU account today, and they had run out of twenties to give me. I ended up with c notes and $2 bills. Kind of ironic metaphor.
Also, they LOST the lease to my safe deposit box. I had to raise my voice to see it. Nothing in it, but what a bunch of losers. They deserve to die.
If only I could be sure my new bank was safe... eek!
We will eventually all get a pony.
Unfortunately, his name will be Mr. Hands.
slightly OT,
concerning the UST's usage of the Exchange Stabilization Fund to prop up Money Market Funds (where the need arises).
The number that has been tossed around today is that the fund has $50B of assets. That is true. However, the latest monthly statement shows that $14.8B is in EUR and $8.8B is in JPY. So to utilize more than $26B, they'll have to do some currency trading (at least from my simplistic read).
So, hypothetically speaking of course; should this fantastic, Mother of all Bailouts not actually save the World, would it be too soon to start hording seeds and how long do you figure I'll be able to squat on my...errr...I mean the banks..oops...mean the taxpayers land?
I didn't mean that houses should be used as atm machines. I meant that people who deserve raises aren't going to get them, hence less spending.
People need to have healthy incomes and raises. That's going to be the most important thing long-term in putting the economy back together. But that's going to be very hard right now because there's still and abundance of cheap labor around the world.
The things that are ultimately going to work though are:
a) Education and skill development of the workforce.
b) Political power of the workforce.
c) Individual and market freedoms that enable the creation of more opportunity (which doesn't mean we need the freedom to leverage 100 to 1).
I don't think we're doing very well in any of these areas right now.
Historically in America workers have improved their lot substantially by fighting for it. At times almost waging war to gain increases in opportunity and compensation.
These days it almost seems like people are resigned to seeing their real wages deteriorate. Sometimes I think people believe too much that politicians will solve these problems for them. They won't, even though they always promise they will.
If workers don't do anything about their weakening position, there's no reason to think things will improve.
That said I'm not quite sure what they can do.
Pimp Ja Pony
Wow... for the first two seconds there I was really worried about what that gal was going to do to that pony.
Historically in America workers have improved their lot substantially by fighting for it.
And let's not forget the folk singers, like Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie.
The gov't contractor I work for recently announced that our raises will be over 5% this year.
Of course we may also have to lay people off because of pending FY09 budget cuts (and no FY09 budget passed)
The things that are ultimately going to work though are:
a) Education and skill development of the workforce.
b) Political power of the workforce.
c) Individual and market freedoms that enable the creation of more opportunity (which doesn't mean we need the freedom to leverage 100 to 1).
you are forgetting:
a) wii
b) Fantasy football
scotto - any dc connection?
dc1k - yeah those bastages in the House of Representin' whacked the hell out of our budget , and because of the continuing res we'll have to live with it until a budget is passed (June, anyone?)
btw 1.5 trilion bailout !!!! thats 10% gdp right??? on top of 7% deficit allready and some SIV wars?? my my..
this makes the greenspan put look tame in comparison. this is the ultimate put.
this is the ultimate put.
So far. Records are made to be broken.
btw wait till gdp falls will make Japan with his 180% debtratio look good..GO USA!!!
oh yeah and I live in NW DC too
Hey, what's another $50 Billion?
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The urgent need for the U.S. Congress to approve a Bush administration plan to rescue Wall Street has given Democrats renewed hope of enacting another economic stimulus package for Main Street, congressional aides said on Friday.
For months, House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other leading Democrats in Congress have been pushing $50 billion in emergency spending they say would spur the flagging U.S. economy.
Now, with Congress leaving town soon so that members can campaign for re-election on November 4, the likely passage of a Wall Street bailout requiring hundreds of billions of dollars could make it easier for Democrats to make their case that a fraction of that amount be spent to help the poor and middle-class.
"I can see it being one of the items up for discussion when Pelosi sits down with (Treasury Secretary Henry) Paulson. 'You want a trillion dollars for Wall Street? We need this for Main Street,'" said one House Democratic aide.
Link
"this is the ultimate put."
No that is the road to hell.
It is a lull so I would like to thank all of you. From here I was lead to Irving Fischer, Galbraith, Black Swans, attempts to read a prospectus, and a stab at Mises who was really, really boring.
At times posters, and the blog hosts, have written succint analysis that has opened my eyes. BTW, I have slept under bridges and the western states have the best.
where is the concurrent announcement of the new regulatory actions to be taken?
i can't believe i actually said that
Nude!! thats the cracker!!!!
Nude | 09.19.08 - 9:26 pm |
wow, this is unf&%*ing believable.
you want 1 trillion for you but we be though and get 50 billion!! looks like pelosie lost the bigger dick contest by miles!!
A tip for those thinking of sleeping under a bridge or freeway overpass.Pigeons.Shit.look for a darker line on the ground.
your poor kids
Mises who was really, really boring.
Mises is hot scintillating porn compared to Schumpeter [the only Austrian I actually 'follow']...
"I have slept under bridges and the western states have the best"
Northern Florida has really great freeway rest areas.
Cheney Doctrine(Deficits Don't Matter) + Bush Doctrine(Pre-Emptive War)
=Failed American policies.
I am an American Tax Prayer, and I approved this message.
"I can see it being one of the items up for discussion when Pelosi sits down with (Treasury Secretary Henry) Paulson. 'You want a trillion dollars for Wall Street? We need this for Main Street,'" said one House Democratic aide.
sweet, my next pony is on the way.
Having multiple kids is really paying off this year.
"I am an American Tax Prayer,"
God Bless You
Western bridges are pigeon free. They also have a nice 3 foot wide lip at the top which keeps you out of line of sight.
Personally I found that official rest stops attracted cops and men with wide stances.
comrade canadien avec popcorn writes:
Nude | 09.19.08 - 9:26 pm |
wow, this is unf&%*ing believable.
comrade canadien avec popcorn | 09.19.08 - 9:29 pm | #
I agree 100%. Only $50B... Dems always think small. Takes a Republican to imagine the unimaginable.
If you come to Canada during the winter, Vancouver is about the only place you can survive under a bridge.
"Personally I found that official rest stops attracted cops and men with wide stances."
the ones in Florida appeared to be diligently patrolled by security day and night
RTC2? Nah...
Omnibus
Mortgage &
Financing
Guaranty Corp.
Maybe a blog for the future homeless might have an audience.
Comrade 4822 writes:
"I have slept under bridges and the western states have the best"
Northern Florida has really great freeway rest areas.
Comrade 4822 | 09.19.08 - 9:30 pm | #
I live on the Panhandle, we have a lovely homeless community that camps out in the field next to my bar. It's really convenient for them.
Northern Florida has really great freeway rest areas.
sure, and all night security protection courtesy of FHP
It could sell t-shirts. Bush bailed out the banks and all I was a t-shirt. It would have to made in China
Nude | 09.19.08 - 9:35 pm | #
That's the best I've seen so far... could actually repeat that in polite company.
North Fork? Not too shabby. CR might like it better than the indoor types, though. . .
http://www.indexinn.com/countries/usa/west_virginia/pl_images/020_West_Virginia-Overlook-From-North-Fork-Mountain.jpg
But I'm partisan.
Comrades!
This picture is in serious need of a photochop!
Fling your rotten cabbage here
Viva la USSA!
I live on the Panhandle, we have a lovely homeless community that camps out in the field next to my bar. It's really convenient for them.
what impressed me about the panhandle was the army of grass-mowers in evidence for miles and miles
a nation comes togheter under a bridge near you!!
Please check bridge for cracks..
If you come to Canada during the winter, Vancouver is about the only place you can survive under a bridge.
Don't bother trying to find room under the bridges here in Vancouver. There are no vacancies.
Wow, a bill to fix infrastructure and house the homeless!
Do not, under any circumstances, come up to Canada anytime after October if you plan on sleeping under bridges. The polar bears will eat you.
Nova writes:
It could sell t-shirts. Bush bailed out the banks and all I was a t-shirt. It would have to made in China
Nova | 09.19.08 - 9:37 pm |
Get thee to Cafe Press
pronto before the market space is jammed...
a bar on the panhandle? Is it a drive thru also?
Or how about this?
TRAP: Bailing out millionaires 1 billion dollars at a time
Wow, a bill to fix infrastructure and house the homeless!
Would be cheaper to just have the homeless hold up the decaying bridges.
We'll have to eat the pony, eventually.
So would a financial meltdown signal a mild recession, or just a lagging recovery?
Pony is good eating.
So would a financial meltdown signal a mild recession, or just a lagging recovery?
sdtfs | 09.19.08 - 9:43 pm | #
...delayed second-half recovery
my bet is there will be a massive capital flight from the US!! after the short rule and the bailout i dont see how anyone want to be in the US market..
a bar on the panhandle? Is it a drive thru also?
AFAICR, all the bars around me have a drive-thru window. One of them has a notice (on the inside, so the bartender can see it) that says "No mixed drinks thru the window!" You gotta wonder about the people they hire.
Would be cheaper to just have the homeless hold up the decaying bridges.
Canadian watching with popcorn | 09.19.08 - 9:42 pm |
Ah, but it is supposed to be expensive or it would be pointless
Out of morbid curiousity, and not because I'm some sort of Keynesian or anything but I wonder in the recesses of my mind if the 1 trillion spent on this latest round of shenanigans was instead spent on infrastructure, R&D, and possibly some weird Mars space race or something, might be a better investment than simply throwing good money after bad. You know, increase technology, research, job creation, etc.
It has to be better than pissing in the wind, like everyone seems to be doing now.
Just heard on CNBC that the Paulsen bailout plan stiffs overseas holders of toxic U.S. paper.
How do you think that will work?
the foreign holders will sell the paper to US banks who re-sell to the govt at profit.
QED
Nova, actually the lounge is attached to the liquor store and yes, the liquore store has a drivethru. It's truly a treat to bartend down here on the "Redneck Riviera"...
what a week
i hope CR is getting some well deserved rest
awesome job this week CR...Thanks
laterz
cesqy,
I was wondering when the wider implications would come to the fore. Official pronouncements - what there are of them - have had an isolated, domestic economy point of view so far.
Old joke
New times
Simplified IRS return.
'How much did you make?'
'Send it in!!
Any recommendations for a disinterested source of advice about opening foreign bank accounts or otherwise trying to put my money someplace where the rats won't get it?
Kristina-
"Redneck Riviera"...
You beat me to it. We used to call it that 20 years ago during spring break visits from up north...
Comrade noob goldberg writes:
Out of morbid curiousity, and not because I'm some sort of Keynesian or anything but I wonder in the recesses of my mind if the 1 trillion spent on this latest round of shenanigans was instead spent on infrastructure, R&D, and possibly some weird Mars space race or something, might be a better investment than simply throwing good money after bad. You know, increase technology, research, job creation, etc.
Maybe school lunches? In DC we have kids whose last meal is Friday. Next meal is Monday at school. Holidays make those bellies growl.
something usefull..
BBC - Peston's Picks
so all about MS and GS.. who would have guessed..
Hi! I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
Billy Hill writes:
Any recommendations for a disinterested source of advice about opening foreign bank accounts or otherwise trying to put my money someplace where the rats won't get it?
i live in Spain, send the Money i take care of it..
Comrade Kristina writes:
Nova, actually the lounge is attached to the liquor store and yes, the liquore store has a drivethru. It's truly a treat to bartend down here on the "Redneck Riviera"...
Comrade Kristina | 09.19.08 - 9:46 pm | #
A bet you have heard beautiful poetry issue from the lips of you clients.
Nova | 09.19.08 - 9:47 pm
Maybe school lunches? In DC we have kids whose last meal is Friday. Next meal is Monday at school. Holidays make those bellies growl.
I agree, but that wouldn't be nearly expensive enough to make the news these days. What, maybe a billion if we included prime rib? Nah, we need to spend real cash in order to catch congress' attention. I figure the whole NASA moon race episode jumpstarted the tech race and made the USA a powerhouse in that industry. Similarly, something similar now wouldn't pay off tomorrow, but might be the ticket to a long term emergence from this.
I guess that kind of thinking is a little too forward for today's environment.
Hi Comrade noob goldberg!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
I'm trying to understand something. In all seriousness:
Where is the money for this going to come from? Doesn't it need to come from somewhere?
I was reading a Navy-centric blog that was discussing the effect of falling oil prices on Iran. They see Iran saber rattling to drive the price back very shortly. Nice timing.
"So would a financial meltdown signal a mild recession, or just a lagging recovery?"
Hard to say, but at minimum we know it's a good time to buy or sell a house.
Comrade Kristina
You working and blogging at the same time?
Hi Nova!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you. Government will protect the people.
Where is the money for this going to come from? Doesn't it need to come from somewhere?
shhhhhhhhh.........
.
Comrade Scared Shitless writes:
I'm trying to understand something. In all seriousness:
Where is the money for this going to come from? Doesn't it need to come from somewhere?
dint you here NASA found a incredible rich bagholder in deep space just some lightyears away..
no serious your families next 5 generatione will work for this..
Nova, you have no idea...or maybe you do...Bless their hearts...
Where is the money for this going to come from? Doesn't it need to come from somewhere?
From you children and grandchildren in the form of much higher taxes.
"Where is the money for this going to come from? Doesn't it need to come from somewhere?"
No.
McCain told me the economy was doing fine, and Palin is just so darn purdy it makes me all tingly inside.
"From you children and grandchildren in the form of much higher taxes."
problem is you can't get high revenues from menial labor wages
Nova, no, I'm at home. I work the day shift most of the time, the crazies come out at night.
Actually I probably do. Before I quit my favorite bar had a plastic Palmino on the roof. We didn't order a bottle, we ordered a picher and a glass.
no serious your families next 5 generatione will work for this..
You'll take it...and like it
.
Hi Yoringe!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
Your questions about money are very good questions. Do not worry, the government has money experts working the problem.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you. Government will protect the people.
I have officially repudiated my portion of your national debt.
Loser American Commie scum!
"Where is the money for this going to come from? Doesn't it need to come from somewhere?"
Helicopters. They're just over that ridge.
heads up americans soon china will outsource cheap jobs to you!!
Comrade Scared Shitless
There is a saying:
When you're siting at a poker game and you don't know who the sucker is, the sucker is you.
What happens if the Chinese and others stop buying our Treasuries?
Does anybody think there is the possibility of the U.S. government going BK because of this?
When I had heard predictions of a collapse during September, they were tied to a complete collapse of the U.S. government in January '09. Wondering whether that scenario has basis, since the government is obviously taking on something which it doesn't have the ability to handle.
Comrade noob goldberg writes:
Out of morbid curiousity, and not because I'm some sort of Keynesian or anything but I wonder in the recesses of my mind if the 1 trillion spent on this latest round of shenanigans was instead spent on infrastructure, R&D, and possibly some weird Mars space race or something, might be a better investment than simply throwing good money after bad. You know, increase technology, research, job creation, etc.
It has to be better than pissing in the wind, like everyone seems to be doing now.
Comrade noob goldberg | 09.19.08 - 9:44 pm | #
That would never work... how would the money get to the bankers?
This blame game is REAL.
Bailout begets bigger bailouts.
The meetings on Capitol Hill came as the banking lobby complained that the federal seizure of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had hurt commercial banks by devaluing their holdings in the so-called government-sponsored enterprises, or GSE.
"The unexpected losses to holders of GSE-preferred shares will inhibit a sizable number of banks from making new mortgages or providing other financing," the American Bankers Association president, Bradley Rock, said in a letter to Bernanke and Paulson.
Rock asked for "prompt, comprehensive action to alleviate the unintended consequences" of the takeover.
The link to IHT article: U.S. tries 'comprehensive approach' to stem domino effect
Just wonder what would be the unintended consequences of banning all shorts and how quick we'll see them.
Moderator, you are doing a fantastic job, and I am strongly encouraged to pay my taxes this year. Is there a 'tip' box on my IRS return, because if there is you're getting it all, big guy!
wasnt there a law passed some weeks ago when you leave the USA for good for another citizenship they fleece you good??? talk a bout they didnt see it..
on side note : you can tell them you leave your 100k share of the debt behind..
Any recommendations for a disinterested source of advice about opening foreign bank accounts or otherwise trying to put my money someplace where the rats won't get it?
I talked to a nice lady at HSBC today who said they could set up an offshore account in Canada for you for ~$200. You can denominate it in Euros or several other currencies.
Bush has bankrupted, or otherwise driven into the ground everything he's ever touched. Oil companies, baseball teams, Texas, and now the whole damn US.
Do you think that the assassinations will start slightly before or slightly after the majority of people in your country belatedly realize how they and their children's children have been sold into serfdom.
Hi Comrade noob goldberg!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
The government will reward you for your positive attitude.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
heads up americans soon china will outsource cheap jobs to you!!
the debt will be repaid by simply handing over
300,000,000 former US citizens to the new world labor pool
$30,000 apiece is not a bad price for a slave
Yoringe @ 10:01
I believe that law begins next year. That is why I am in Zug!
Does this weeks events mean China has now solidified itself as the new Superpower above the United States?
Anonymous writes:
Bush has bankrupted, or otherwise driven into the ground everything he's ever touched. Oil companies, baseball teams, Texas, and now the whole damn US.
Bush for world prez!!!
then Mister Universe...
gogogogo
btw donated for the next prez library??
kis, I can't believe I'm saying this but Peter Schiff actually discussed this in his book. Something about EuroPacific Capital or something? I kind of fell asleep through the end there.
Head up to Canada for a nice fall vacation...watch the leaves change colours, drive through the forests and shoot small furry animals, and open a bank account. Afterward you'll feel right as rain.
No, the new superpower is Estonia. Invulnerable to attack by the US because no one has a clue where it is.
Hi Anonymous!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
Patriotism is good. Criticism against the government is bad. Bad behaviour will be punished.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
Nova 10:04 pm
ha ha ha...
Head up to Canada for a nice fall vacation...watch the leaves change colours, drive through the forests and shoot small furry animals, and open a bank account. Afterward you'll feel right as rain.
No, stay away. You guys are f*&%in' poison.
.
Everbank too, of course.
I suspect both are going to get a lot more inquiries soon. I'm trying to be ahead of the curve on this.
Amazing that US banks don't offer this option, as it is fairly common in the UK and elsewhere.
Former citizen Ross from Zug writes:
Yoringe @ 10:01
I believe that law begins next year. That is why I am in Zug
so still time to leave for everybody?? imagine that..
I would have gone with one of the Trashistans for super power but I bet at least 1 special forces team has visted everyone of them.
I found his comment from John McCain interesting...
"Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation. "
Just Wow.
Where is the money for this going to come from? Doesn't it need to come from somewhere?
In all seriousness my reply, There is really no money. Our money is just the pledge to repay with our future labor hours. See this video
Google Videos Error
When it is impossible to pay back our pledges becasue we pledged too many hours of labor we are bankrupt. We can create the visible form of money just as a drunken bum can create another IOU but it does not change the fact that it is impossible for him to pay back his debts.
Canada could be a super power but everyone in Canada is to shy and humble to accept such exalted status
Yoringe,
Da konyeshna, torvarisch.
Zaftra utrom, ya pashol.
"From you children and grandchildren in the form of much higher taxes."
problem is you can't get high revenues from menial labor wages.
Comrade 4822
Here's the thing; the federal government has slowly, over the years, given states less revenue to pay for things the federal taxes used to help pay for and put that expense on the state to cover. So now the state has to come up with the money. Have your roads gotten worse over the years? Library cut their hours? Public broadcasting needing more donations to keep up the same programming? The list goes on endlessly. Federal money just isn't there anymore.
"We could all rest easy about our money if government would just get out of the way."
Thanks y'all,
-Cindy McCai
PS: If you are having financial problems, please consider starting a second career as an heiress.
Well, in 6 years I'm going to Wien and never coming back
Estonia? Isn't that where Comrade Cannabis is located?
Canada could be a super power but everyone in Canada is to shy and humble to accept such exalted status
America Jr.
Bail outs should be handled this way
Hi tg!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
Money is a very complex subject. The government has experts working the money problem. Do not worry.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
Comex Raises Margin Rates on Gold Contracts by 47%, Silver 20%
Comex Raises Margin Rates on Gold Contracts by 47%, Silver 20% - Bloomberg.com
You can run but you can't hide. Better hope you got the real deal.
Where is the money for this going to come from? Doesn't it need to come from somewhere?
Excellent question. Simple: either taxes are raised or they issue more bonds to sell abroad. The big question is: what happens if there are no more buyers. Oops, interest rates will have to rise.
Nova,
I hear Wein has great suasage and pastries. You can drown your sorrows in a cafe by the blue Dunube...
Pity we non expats.
Oh Nassua, I move quickly!
Comrade Kristina writes:
I found his comment from John McCain interesting...
"Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation. "
Just Wow.
Comrade Kristina | 09.19.08 - 10:08 pm | #
Comrade K - I've seen that quote many places. It shows the secret down homsey brilliance of Commissar McCain... it is really a backdoor way to get us all national healthcare... paid for by the Fed and Treasury Dept.
Cunning he is Commissar McCain.
Hi comrade crabsofsteel!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
Excellent question. Money is a very complex subject. The government has experts working the money problem. Do not worry. Keep shopping.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
"Cunning he is Commissar McCain."
Whooo! You bet he is!!
-Cindy McCai
dryfly, I just can't bring myself to use the word "cunning" for that man...
"dryfly, I just can't bring myself to use the word "cunning" for that man..."
'conning'?
Who better to save us from fraudlent banking than one of the Keating Five?
btw Moderator makes me want to buy things , but what?? a pony??
"If we don't do this, we risk an uncertain fate," Mr. Bernanke added. He said that if the problem wasn't corrected, the U.S. economy could enter a deep, multi-year recession akin to Japan's lost decade of the 1990s, or what Sweden endured in the early 1990s when a surge in bad loans plagued the economy and sent unemployment to 12%.
"Canada could be a super power but everyone in Canada is to shy and humble to accept such exalted status"
Superpower, so that's what you're calling yourselves these days.
Cunny he is Commissar McCain?
Isn't today "talk like a Pirate day"?
Arggggg
Scurvy Gum Bianca
"If we don't do this, we risk an uncertain fate," Mr. Bernanke added. He said that if the problem wasn't corrected, the U.S. economy could enter a deep, multi-year recession akin to Japan's lost decade of the 1990s, or what Sweden endured in the early 1990s when a surge in bad loans plagued the economy and sent unemployment to 12
Bernanke should go back to his real job.. be busy on the 23th of december..
"If we don't do this, we risk an uncertain fate,"
INVESTORS RESIDING IN SINGLE STORY FINANCIAL STRUCTURES FACE CERTAIN DEATH
wait 24th..
Hi Anonymous!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
The fate of America is a Great One. America is Great. Watch TV. Stay uninformed.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
Oh Nassua, I move quickly!
Ross from Nassua | 09.19.08 - 10:14 pm |
Better sun than Nassau for us who must fear the rays.
Civilized 1st world comfort is all I want and need.
comrade crabsofsteel writes:
Where is the money for this going to come from? Doesn't it need to come from somewhere?
Excellent question. Simple: either taxes are raised or they issue more bonds to sell abroad. The big question is: what happens if there are no more buyers. Oops, interest rates will have to rise.
wrong on both. the federal govt does not get money from issuing bonds or collecting taxes. both are reserve drains. the govt spends by debiting the treasury's account at the fed and debiting a members account. all private sector savings are a result of public sector spending (deficits).
sorry, debiting account at fed and crediting member account
Sorry moderator, but it's out in the open now. You can proceed to blaming this on middle eastern terrorists
Hi Yoringe!
Shopping is good for you. Watch TV. Stay uninformed. Keep shopping. Do not worry. Be a brave shopper.
Moderator here is the NSA: Pls refrain from interupting our evesdropping by making ppl suspicious..
Canada could be a super power but everyone in Canada is to shy and humble to accept such exalted status
Thank Christ! We were going to do a moon shot, heard it's been done, no cheese, canceled, saved our money.
Someone is always buying what America is selling. None are better at it.
sean = Moderator???
Oh Canada! Be proud. I send you hugs from afar.
ope
pelosi gonna sneak another $50b into hank&ben's bailout. Doesn't she know this one will do even less than the last one, which was barely a blip? What a joke.
maybe days away from a complete meltdown of our financial system
Does anybody think that central banks will sell any gold for quite a while unless they absolutely have to, i.e. they are out of liquid currency?
Hi Yoringe!
Have trust in the government. Trust is good. Evesdropping is bad. The government will protect you from bad things.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
I'm thinking moderator is CCC...just a guess....
@sean,
you can semantically say it works in such a way, but it's pretty clear what the gov't is doing.
CCC? I thought maybe Elvis.
Actually the moderator is named Jas. After a deprived youth he has been driven to help those of his adopted country.
Re: the 50 billion bailout. Heck, I'll take it, by the time they get it to me it should be worth about 48.50
Hi RE!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
Comrade Kristina: Not me. I would have said something inappropriate by now.
Angry renter said:
Wow. The systematic bank run had started.
Smart coworkers are pulling their money fast!
I love from your link:
''As we all know, lax lending practices earlier this decade led to irresponsible lending and irresponsible borrowing. This simply put too many families into mortgages they could not afford,'' Paulson said.
I LOVE it when the authorities slam that barn door closed with authority! After everyone has noted the horses are long gone...
But this week's bank... wasn't even a morsal. Its like being presented a peanut and being told that is the main entre'!
I'm thinking that the theory that the FDIC must hire before tackling WaMu makes sense. Ugh...
Obviously, the solution is to ban more short selling... which denies brokers revenue and capitol (as they hold onto the short money)... Yea... that won't destabilize anyone...
Got Popcorn?
Neil
all private sector savings are a result of public sector spending (deficits).
except the billions of "counterfeit" money the CIA has access to
@sean,
you can semantically say it works in such a way, but it's pretty clear what the gov't is doing.
its not semantics. thats how it works when you hvae a fiat currency. its indesputable.
I'm thinking that the theory that the FDIC must hire before tackling WaMu makes sense. Ugh...
The whole drama today is to prepare the safety net to catch Wamu before it goes crack-boom.
M-LEC away it's toxic stuff and viola, it lives.
"Someone is always buying what America is selling. None are better at it.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
.
"Fiat currency would work so much better if government would get out of the way of private industry."
-Cindy McCai
If California has an unemployment rate in the high 7's and some counties with close to 25% that means the only productive cash generating job is...
Yes. It is.
FFDIC promised us a Cali closure last night. Perhaps moderator is FFDIC hiding out.
Comrade 4822 writes:
"From you children and grandchildren in the form of much higher taxes."
problem is you can't get high revenues from menial labor wages
Comrade 4822 | 09.19.08 - 9:57 pm | #
The debt will be paid one way or another most likely through taxation through inflation.
Hi Neil!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
The economy is very complex. The government has experts working the economy. Our banks are perfectly sound. Do not worry. Be a brave shopper.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
FFDIC was overtaken by events. Next week is Downey.
I tried to convince my family today to take advantage of the 8% bounce to sell their funds and get into cash. They all repeated the mantra, 'but we are not retiring for awhile, so it is better to ride through the bumps'. My attempts to tell them 'it is different this time' were futile against the years of brainwashing from wall street and bubblevision.
its not semantics. thats how it works when you hvae a fiat currency. its indesputable.
sean | 09.19.08 - 10:28 pm | #
Indisputable in the same way milk comes from the grocery story and change from the till.
That was a nice head-fake by FFDIC. I couldn't believe wankers were asking him for more inside information...
Hi Nova!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
FDIC is working perfectly. There is no problem in the banking sector. Do not worry. Be a brave shopper.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
Nova writes:
FFDIC was overtaken by events. Next week is Downey.
Nova | 09.19.08 - 10:31 pm | #
Maybe Downey gets wrapped up in TARP instead of FDICed...
"Now would be a good time to legalize drugs and prostitution"
ac- Barney Frank beat you to the the punch. I think it was about two days after the F/F bailout that he came out saying marijuana should be legalized.
I'd said to a friend right after the bailout: they're gonna need more tax $$ to pull this sh*t bailout off. watch for legalized, taxable marijuana sales at shops, coupled with _illegal_privately produced pot (ie. no growing a plant in your living room).
Much like legal booze at gov. shops, illegal moonsine stills.
Next day, Frank comes out with this "legalize pot" stuff.
These pols are so predictable if you watch them closely.
hey just a thought : may the new job recovery is printing dollars for the fed on your HP machine at home
)
o, indesputable like in the form of an accounting identity. the public sector deficit is exactly equal to the private sector surplus. you can not have private sector savings without the public sector being in deficit. the dollars come from only 1 source - the treasury. the govt has to spend dollars for you to accumulate dollar financial assets and pay taxes.
Moderator,
Thank you for staying alert. I am going to sleep. I will sleep better knowing you are out there. Just like the men and women of the USDOF SWAT team. Together, I hope you patrol the corridors of both the powerful and powerless. Keep us Safe! That is a heartfelft plea from a man who reconizes a hero when he reads one.
God bless you Moderator.
Moderator = comrade misean??
Hi kis!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
Your money is perfectly safe. Stay invested. Funds are good for you. Be a brave investor.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
and barney already has the gay prostitution thing worked out
"no, indesputable like in the form of an accounting identity. the public sector deficit is exactly equal to the private sector surplus. you can not have private sector savings without the public sector being in deficit. the dollars come from only 1 source - the treasury. the govt has to spend dollars for you to accumulate dollar financial assets and pay taxes."
In other words.... I can haz pony?
good night laugh!!
GOP Delegate gets drugged and robbed in Minneapolis hotel tryst | Crooks and Liars
sean
um, OK. So, either treasury or fed is going to have raise more money. are you saying that they don't have to raise taxes or borrow more because they can just print it?
Hi Nova!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
Keeping You safe and happy is the first priority of government. Your kind words will be rewarded. A rebate check will be mailed to your home.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
CR please ban Moderator. He's clogging up the thread. It's simply insulting that he thinks we are so easily swayed. Although I guess shopping is good. And I think the economy is strong. Very strong.
I'll be back, just gotta go buy a few things. Now, what do I need?
It doesn't matter. I'll just do a little shopping. It'll make me feel more secure.
comrade crabsofsteel see so easy just print!! another job well done wealth created...
YLSP writes:
That was a nice head-fake by FFDIC. I couldn't believe wankers were asking him for more inside information...
YLSP | 09.19.08 - 10:33 pm | #
We were funning with him... no one expected him to actually tell us. Sheeesh.
He's a big boy & knows what he is doing.
Its embarrassing to admit that I was a target of a crime. I was drugged and had about $50,000 of personal items stolen, not the inflated number that the media is reporting from an inaccurate police report, he said.
Yeah...not that ridiculous inflated number. Everyone cruises around with $50k spilling out of them.
"That was a nice head-fake by FFDIC. I couldn't believe wankers were asking him for more inside information..."
YLSP | 09.19.08 - 10:33 pm | #
What YLSP said.
FFDIC: I, for one, enjoyed the moderator schtick.
honestly if it is so easy i should have send my sister to minneapolis to earn my retirement!!!
Hi sdtfs!
I am from the government. I am here to help you moderate your opinions.
You are correct: shopping is good. And the economy is strong. Very strong.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Shopping is good for you.
FFDIC writes:
"That was a nice head-fake by FFDIC. I couldn't believe wankers were asking him for more inside information..."
YLSP | 09.19.08 - 10:33 pm | #
What YLSP said.
FFDIC | 09.19.08 - 10:42 pm | #
Right - so Downey's next week?
Who is this Sean guy? If he really believes private saving are caused by government deficits he must have a powered tinfoil hat that draws enough power to dim streetlights in the adjacent county. Misean would be envious.
I felt drawn this tonight... like a moth to flame.
YouTube - Suzanne Researched This Commercial
Hard to say, but at minimum we know it's a good time to buy or sell a house.
or possibly to build one. was talking to the lady that handles the state DAP-style program last night. She indicated that the builders in this area are hungry for work. The state DAP-style program (called SHIP) has a cap of $100K (land + structure). When you hear that builders are anxious to get into that market segment, you know they must be hurting.
So much for Armageddon...
Close 9/12/08 9/19/08
S&P 1252 1255.08
DOW 11422 11388.44
Nasdaq 2261.27 2273.90
2 Year 2.21% 2.10%
10 Year 3.72% 2.73%
6 Month 1.55% 1.51%
Fair Economist writes:
Who is this Sean guy? If he really believes private saving are caused by government deficits he must have a powered tinfoil hat that draws enough power to dim streetlights in the adjacent county. Misean would be envious.
but admit its a good line.. the coming bailout will produce 1.5 trillion in savings..
can we say Astroturfer intrusion??
Hi Currently Smoking Cannabis!
Your kind words will be rewarded. A rebate check will be mailed to your home. Trust is good. Have trust in the government. Trust will be rewarded.
There is no problem. The economy is strong. Very strong. Smoking cannabis is not good. Do not smoke cannabis. Shopping is good for you.
um, OK. So, either treasury or fed is going to have raise more money. are you saying that they don't have to raise taxes or borrow more because they can just print it?
the treasury does not borrow money. thats like saying the ny subway system borrows tokens.
the treasury "issues" the money. when they sell bonds they are draining the excess reserves they have created when they debited their account at the fed.
if the govt want an aircraft carrier they dont go and sell bonds to get money for it. they dont wait for you to pay tax. they debit thei acct at the fed and credit the account of the shipbuilder. thats exactly how it works. obviously if they didnt sell bonds excess reserves would drive the funds rate to 0. the federal govt is not revenue constrained. spending can be inflationary but thats a seperate argument. the money doesnt "come from " somewhere like foreigners or some magic pool of dollars. if it did how come the deficit can keep growing in absolute terms- where did all those dollars coem from. they werent there 10 years ago and 50 years ago no one had 100 billion let alone a trillion dollars.
but admit its a good line.. the coming bailout will produce 1.5 trillion in savings..
Better yet its an 'investment' from a national accounting pov...