Dodd's method is one way to get checks and balances: You can put any price on the trash you want, but we take an equal amount of equity. So what's it worth to you?
Goldman Sachs has been retained by the treasury department to model the hoopajoop to give taxpayers a better idea of the incredible payout they can expect from investing the nation's wealth in forced-conversion hoopajoops.
Now there are only 828 companies that I won't do business with. If your on the list your a boycott in my book I'll go elsewhere. GE, GM, American Express, Kiss my ass.
"Goldman Sachs has an incestuous relationship with the government"
People need to understand this is not an issue of the white knights of congress riding to rescue us from the evils of Wall Street and private industry.
The problem is precisely that their relationship is not adversarial as is essential to proper regulation and oversight.
The government officials are not acting as the cops; they're acting as co-conspirators.
The problem is not that the government doesn't have have the power to oversee Wall Street. "Government" and "Wall Street" are basically different names for the same type of people.
The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism is a 2007 book by Canadian journalist Naomi Klein.
The book and film argue that the free market policies of Nobel Laureate Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics have risen to prominence in countries such as Chile under Pinochet, Russia under Yeltsin, the United States (for example in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina), and the privatization of Iraq's economy under the Coalition Provisional Authority not because they were democratically popular, but because they were pushed through while the citizens of these countries were in shock from disasters or upheavals. It is also claimed that these shocks are in some cases, such as the Falklands war, created with the intention of being able to push through these unpopular reforms in the wake of the crisis.
Diamond Hill is a fund manager whose mutual fund lineup includes a couple of long/short funds. So this is both good PR and just plain necessary for them to avoid being massively hypocritical. Every other company on that list with a fund management operation that includes any portfolios that use short-selling (130/30 funds, long/short, absolute return, etc.) that doesn't do this is just repulsive.
For what it is worth I called my representative and both my senators today. The legislative staff were interested in hearing my opinion and stated that they are getting a high volume of calls.
Dunno, but this is my favorite recent quote. From the BBC article in Yoringe's link:
"Now that the US taxpayer is in a formal sense underwriting Goldman and Morgan Stanley, their days of buckling the swash on the worldwide high seas of finance are over, possibly for good."
When you call, ask them if their refrigerator is running. If they say yes, yell "You better go catch it!" and hang up. So funny.
Or ask if they have Dr. Pepper in a can. If they say yes, yell "You better let him out!" and hang up. Haha!
It's just as effective and much more fun than talking about bailouts. That stuff just makes it sound like you don't understand power politics or campaign funding.
I am trying to organize a protest, at 5:30 pm, at Buckingham Fountain in Grant Park. I would make flyers for us to distribute.
Unfortunately, I've only had two people express interest, and one of those has bailed. So if you are interested, please email me at kenworthey (don't forget the extra "e") at gmail. I will keep you posted about whether it is going to come off, IF you email me.
Hope it happens! The Dodd bill is a significant step forward.
What exactly is this hoopajoop? Just when I thought I knew the jargon, just when I finally realized that SWFs are not just single white females, new jargon emerges.
Sent about 25 faxes yesterday to different senators and cc:ed mine.
My biggest issues were:
1) take time to deliberate $700B of spending
2) open-ended authority for dumbasses Paulson and Bernanke
3) no accountability of the financial companies or shareholders. F that one big time.
For what it is worth I called my representative and both my senators today. The legislative staff were interested in hearing my opinion and stated that they are getting a high volume of calls.
I hope you introduced yourself as "Your most obedient and loyal comrade Puerhfan"
Word hitting trading desks is one of the last fed/ treasury bullets will be abolishing FASB 157. Sorta like saying, "I can make the market stop going down. Just halt trading."
About time to demand any records from President's Working Group meetings and correspondence. We need to know before throwing another nickel at financial institutions.
Reich suggests plan modifications
(from Politico)
My five nominees:
The government (i.e. taxpayers) gets an equity stake in every Wall Street financial company proportional to the amount of bad debt that company shoves onto the public. So when and if Wall Street shares rise, taxpayers are rewarded for accepting so much risk.
Wall Street executives and directors of Wall Street firms relinquish their current stock options and this years other forms of compensation, and agree to future compensation linked to a rolling five-year average of firm profitability. Why should taxpayers feather their already amply-feathered nests?
All Wall Street executives immediately cease making campaign contributions to any candidate for public office in this election cycle or next, all Wall Street PACs be closed, and Wall Street lobbyists curtail their activities unless specifically asked for information by policymakers. Why should taxpayers finance Wall Streets outsized political power especially when that power is being exercised to get favorable terms from taxpayers?
Wall Street firms agree to comply with new regulations over disclosure, capital requirements, conflicts of interest, and market manipulation. The regulations will emerge in ninety days from a bi-partisan working group, to be convened immediately. After all, inadequate regulation and lack of oversight got us into this mess.
Wall Street agrees to give bankruptcy judges the authority to modify the terms of primary mortgages, so homeowners have a fighting chance to keep their homes. Why should distressed homeowners lose their homes when Wall Streeters receive taxpayer money that helps them keep their fancy ones?
Wall Streeters may not like these conditions. Well, you should tell them that the public doesnt like the idea of bailing out Wall Street. So if Wall Street doesnt accept these conditions, it doesnt get the blank check.
As my Chinese laundryman once said to another customer (actually)"No tickee no shirtee"
The problem is not that the government doesn't have have the power to oversee Wall Street. "Government" and "Wall Street" are basically different names for the same type of people.
ac, so true. Kleptocrats - quanxi capitalists.
In other development, Russians are now excited, they know what's going on because most of their leaders has the formative years under a bankrupting USSR, and later done well under a kleptocratic society.
Never fear, Jargon decoder man is here. Hoopajoop came from this post by newbie "Penrod and Sam" in the last thread:
The fed has announced that the stock of Goldman Sacks and other choice firms will be convertible to a curious instrument known as a hoopajoop, which follows rules according to an 800 page manual, portions of which have been released, the bulk of which is yet to be written "some time after november." The fed guarantees that this hoopajoop conversion will solve the liquidity/solvency crisis.
Market reaction was mixed because nobody understands what a hoopajoop is, what the implications of a hoopajoop conversion are, and because the few parts of the 800 page manual which were released today involve novel securitization vehicles which are impossible to use for prediction purposes. Market forces are reeling, too absorbed in contemplating this "brave new world" of hoopajoop investment instruments to act. Paulson announced that this was just one of a series of planned maneuvers to confuse the market with bells, whistles, and startling regulatory surprises, just long enough to pass the novemer elections.
And then Volker the Viking suggested...
Anyone that mentions the words "free market" on Capitol Hill should be smacked. Or worse.
Move that from this point forward any mention of 'free market' be substituted with 'hoopajoop'.
This has been your hoopajoop investment information minute. Continue to go long hoopajoop.
Pardon the non sequiter, but I need some help in answering a legal question.
I cantacted an acquaintance who is an investigative jounalist for a financial magazine. The reporter followed up on the issue of prosecuting under Sarbanes-Oxley. The reporter's sources asserted that Sarbanes-Oxley was not appropriate.
Here imy novice counter analysis.
Sarbanes-Oxley requires the signatories (executives and auditor) to a reporting entity's financial statement to vouch that the financial statement "fairly presents the financial condition of the company".
Financial statements are comprised of standard statement such as balance sheets and income. Further, many accounting rules also require disclosure regarding key inputs for reported values.
Beyond that, financial statement also provide for Discussion & Analysis, which provide a forum to the reporting entity to help the reader to read between the lines.
My point, that at a minimum, there must have been much uncertainty regarding assets and liabilities and that these uncertainties obviously created a lot of risk. If the reportinmg entity did not discuss and analyze the uncertainty and risk, then I do not see how they can maintain that they "fairly represebnted the financial condition of the company".
Does someone have the legal expertise to answer this, or have a friend who does?
I think hoopajoop is slang for proposed plans which are designed to forestall a market drop through confusion, obfuscation, delay, or the introduction of novel, difficult-to-price regulatory measures or instruments.
It's also slang for what our markets have become, which might less confusingly be termed as "obfuscation capitalism."
Well I finally managed to get a short sale through
.... and I bought the SSO @ 55.61. Good luck.
FYI I've actually been short TWM on and off to attempt to be long RUT and make a bit of extra change off volatility.
Kind of seems like a crazy thing to do, but the stock market is only meant to be for entertainment purposes anyhow. It's all just paper and digital 0s and 1s you know.
The Russian ships thing is a previously announced naval exercise with Venezuela. Yes, they're doing it to flout the U.S. But it's not a spur of the moment thing.
And the ECB has apparently declined its personal invitation from Hank to join in the Great Bailout.
Maybe Chairman Paulson (yeah - Chairman, as in Great Steersman - bet Chairman Paulson wishes he could write his own little red book, with a happy ending) is discovering that some governments still have limits to what they can do before an enraged electorate kicks them out.
As Churchill almost noted, 'an iron curtain has descended across the Hudson.
Oops... did Paulson say 700 Billion.. do I hear 800 billion?
"The purchases by Freddie and Fannie helped fuel the boom in lending that led to frozen credit markets, more than $514 billion in bank losses and the collapse of two of the country's biggest securities firms. The subprime overhang may determine whether the $200 billion U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson earmarked for the companies will all be used to rev up mortgage lending. He may have to spend about $300 billion, William Poole, the former Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis president, said in a Bloomberg Television interview this month."
"Sept. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs Group Inc.'s conversion to banks may mean regional lenders including Marshall & Ilsley Corp. and Zions Bancorporation face more competition for deposits and larger credit losses.
The Treasury's plan to buy troubled assets including mortgages could hurt, not help'' small to mid-cap banks</b>, Merrill Lynch & Co. analysts led by Heather Wolf said in a note to investors.Most smaller banks are carrying problem real estate assets -- namely residential construction -- near par, and we doubt the government will offer such attractive valuations.''
Marshall and Ilsley dropped more than 22 percent in New York trading on concern that regional bank profits will be squeezed. The 24-member KBW Bank Index fell almost 8 percent, while the Nasdaq Bank Index of almost 500 smaller lenders dropped 6.4 percent, the most for that benchmark since the 1987 market crash.
Regional banks have not yet marked their troubled assets to market,'' the Merrill analysts said.They will likely still generate large credit losses when they sell assets'' to the government."
After taking a quick glance at Dodd's plan, it sounds ok. (Wow.) But what I don't see is a clause for the Feds to profit on the bailout of individual homeowners who get their principal forgiven. I'd say like the assistance for the banks, if the Feds cut your rate or principal, they should get a cut of any future profit on the home when sold.
I look forward to CR's response to Dodd's proposal.
Assume from history that under deflation - if this is what we get - that there will be a fair number of bankrupt banks.
FDIC is liable to be a little slow.
I'm calling it at least a month of solid needed expenses. Screw the piano lessons, band camp, etc.
What I'm wondering is this. If I mail a check on an account in a failed bank awaiting FDIC workout, does it count as payment for the recipient? It's coming dude, talk to your congressman...
Also consider what other hard assets that you have available if need arises.
CSC:
LOL.
I'm a bit old for that one, but my kids would be into it. When out with my kids someplace, I'll occasionally hike my pants down and turn the hat sideways and become "K-dad".
Sorry for the cut & paste - I could not access the main post link:
Among the major provisions Dodd is adding:
Authority for bankruptcy judges to restructure mortgages for homeowners facing foreclosure. This was considered a poison pill in a housing bill that passed Congress earlier this summer, but it has gained much more currency now that Washington wants to bail out Wall Street.
A provision that would require the Treasury to take 65 percent of any profits it makes from the newly purchased assets and put it into the federal government's HOPE program, an affordable housing program.
An oversight board that not only includes the chairman of the Federal Reserve and the SEC, but congressionally appointed, non-governmental officials.
Limits on executive compensation. This is a major stumbling point for Paulson in his negotiations with Congress, but cracking down on Wall Street executive salaries will be a major selling point for lawmakers. Dodd and Frank have put in place what's known as a "claw back" provision aimed at revoking compensation that executives received based on fraudulent claims.
An independent inspector general to investigate the Treasury asset program, appointed by the preside
Oh , and I have a serious pain in my rectum. I saw it coming and it was tattooed HPY It did not seem as scary until it got excited and I could read it all. It said HENRY PAULSON AND COMPANY. I think it bruised a lung....
homedad43 -- thanks.... my wife still only lets me wear my tin-foil collander around the house, but I can take $3-$4K out of the bank to tide us over for a month or two
They run a pretty well known Long/Short fund. It was probably to show there non-support for the plan since they run a fund which shorts. Congrats to standing up to it!
Beacuse our national debt is about go double......default city. Maybe we can sell CA to Mexico? Instead of prison camps we will designate CA as the place of banishment of all foreclosed homeowners, since 40% are there already. It will be like culling the sick from the heard. Then, the rest of us can get on with our lives.
Though an admirable move, it's kind of irrelevant. Diamond Hill is an investment advisory company with little or no need for operating capital whatsoever.
Diamond Hill is an asset management company that is highly regarded in the investment adviser community. Among other things, they run a long-short fund focusing on the financial sector, as well as a more diversified long short strategy.
Thank you so much for the following information : "Beazer will discontinue mortgage-origination services through Beazer Mortgage Corp. And it will end its relationship with Homebuilders Financial Network LLC. Instead, it will market Countrywide, the Calabasas, Calif., mortgage company, to buyers of Beazer homes as the preferred mortgage provider. Beazer will take charges, which it can't yet calculate, as it ends the Beazer Mortgage operation." This updated my knowledge to take the necessary steps regarding mortgage. Otherwise i could have wasted my time in en quiring them in person or by phone
Yep, I wonder what their story is.
First? And I'm going long DHIL.
thirdest
Average volume is 10K shares a day and the float is on 2M. Less than 5% of the float is short and 56% is held by insiders and institutions.
http://www.diamond-hill.com/
And that might be why they did it, friardaddy. Then again, who knows?
Gold star for Diamond Hill Investment Group
DHIL: Summary for Diamond Hill Investment Group, - Yahoo! Finance
This is anti-American! Stocks only go up!
Dodd offers a counter bill
Treasury Relents on Key Points - WSJ.com
You mean THERES A CHOICE??
And just when I thought Dodd was a total loser....
......
From previous thread:
CSC, you are the wind beneath my wings.
everyone, please read this....
Winter (Economic and Market) Watch » Massive Bailout? Hardly, a Massive Tar Pit Instead
Dodd's method is one way to get checks and balances: You can put any price on the trash you want, but we take an equal amount of equity. So what's it worth to you?
Just my first glance.
Way to go guys. Just bought a couple shares (with the random spare change I found in my trading account).
Going short Diamond Hill
seems like allowing yourself to be in the plan is an admission of defeat. Should be followed by all the longs dumping the stock.
They should say: "Go **** yourself SEC. We believe in free market capitalism."
why do they hate America?
JP that is the way i see it too.
I think that any loss on the eventual sale of assets should be repaid with debt and not equity.
The gov. buys 1 MBS for 100MM and eventually sells it for 50MM.
As a tax payer I want 50MM of first lien debt.
Put me at the front of the line or no deal....
.......
Opting out of the short selling ban makes a company inelligible to participate in the hoopajoop conversion plan.
CNBC speaks the truth for the FIRST time."Goldman Sachs has an incestuous relationship with the government". Well done Steve Leisman. !!!!
You forgot to add "All hail the hoopajoop" anonymous
Could somebody please explain what this means? How can they short sell when there's not supposed to be short-selling?
POBS = part-owner Big Shitpile, BTW.
You seen the volume, spread, on DHIL, guys ? bid/ask 87.66/91.22, volume TODAY 984 ( that's nine-hundred and eighty-four ).
Still, hats off to them, for their PR savviness for sure.
-K
BUY them.
Goldman Sachs has been retained by the treasury department to model the hoopajoop to give taxpayers a better idea of the incredible payout they can expect from investing the nation's wealth in forced-conversion hoopajoops.
All hail the hoopajoop.
heh
stand by me
Now there are only 828 companies that I won't do business with. If your on the list your a boycott in my book I'll go elsewhere. GE, GM, American Express, Kiss my ass.
"I don't know anything about this company..."
Diamond Hill is the new bailout name for Capital Hill...
George W. says "act now, hurry, hurry - before they have time to hide those WMD."
Well we hurried last time didn't we? Guess it wasn't quick enough. They still had time to hide the WMD.
OMIGOD! They hoopajooped Kenny.
"Goldman Sachs has an incestuous relationship with the government"
People need to understand this is not an issue of the white knights of congress riding to rescue us from the evils of Wall Street and private industry.
The problem is precisely that their relationship is not adversarial as is essential to proper regulation and oversight.
The government officials are not acting as the cops; they're acting as co-conspirators.
The problem is not that the government doesn't have have the power to oversee Wall Street. "Government" and "Wall Street" are basically different names for the same type of people.
I'm with Nades--put us first in line and I'm on board.
If the real problem is liquidity, companies will still be happy to sell, knowing it would eventually recover.
If they're trying to scam us with a solvency problem, their bondholders will punish them appropriately.
The Shock Doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism is a 2007 book by Canadian journalist Naomi Klein.
The book and film argue that the free market policies of Nobel Laureate Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics have risen to prominence in countries such as Chile under Pinochet, Russia under Yeltsin, the United States (for example in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina), and the privatization of Iraq's economy under the Coalition Provisional Authority not because they were democratically popular, but because they were pushed through while the citizens of these countries were in shock from disasters or upheavals. It is also claimed that these shocks are in some cases, such as the Falklands war, created with the intention of being able to push through these unpopular reforms in the wake of the crisis.
Diamond Hill is a fund manager whose mutual fund lineup includes a couple of long/short funds. So this is both good PR and just plain necessary for them to avoid being massively hypocritical. Every other company on that list with a fund management operation that includes any portfolios that use short-selling (130/30 funds, long/short, absolute return, etc.) that doesn't do this is just repulsive.
whats up with that??
BBC NEWS | Business | US banks make shock status switch
do they smell no bailout??
Well,,,when you have all the officers in a co. going short every time it hits 99$,,i would want to play also...
For what it is worth I called my representative and both my senators today. The legislative staff were interested in hearing my opinion and stated that they are getting a high volume of calls.
Russian navy ships head to Venezuela
CNN.com - Page not found
Doesn't bode well.
Dunno, but this is my favorite recent quote. From the BBC article in Yoringe's link:
"Now that the US taxpayer is in a formal sense underwriting Goldman and Morgan Stanley, their days of buckling the swash on the worldwide high seas of finance are over, possibly for good."
Hoopajoop: Buckling the Swash!
Please call your Congressman, everyone!
When you call, ask them if their refrigerator is running. If they say yes, yell "You better go catch it!" and hang up. So funny.
Or ask if they have Dr. Pepper in a can. If they say yes, yell "You better let him out!" and hang up. Haha!
It's just as effective and much more fun than talking about bailouts. That stuff just makes it sound like you don't understand power politics or campaign funding.
reverse psychology?
LAST CALL, CHICAGO
I am trying to organize a protest, at 5:30 pm, at Buckingham Fountain in Grant Park. I would make flyers for us to distribute.
Unfortunately, I've only had two people express interest, and one of those has bailed.
So if you are interested, please email me at kenworthey (don't forget the extra "e") at gmail. I will keep you posted about whether it is going to come off, IF you email me.
Hope it happens! The Dodd bill is a significant step forward.
ping
Well, you best be buckling your swash if there's a hoopajoop in the room!
Krawscheck is quitting...go figure.
Doesn't Naomi Klein post here sometimes?
I might be mixing handles.
Still I swear I've seen her name.
.......
Well now they have GS and MS,, i'm feeling a little red also..
What exactly is this hoopajoop? Just when I thought I knew the jargon, just when I finally realized that SWFs are not just single white females, new jargon emerges.
Comrades,
This is all too much for my pea brain.
Nostrovia,
Anyone looked at the Dollar lately?
Rapidly going back to single ply.
puehrfan - me, too.
I called my rep and both sens.
Sent about 25 faxes yesterday to different senators and cc:ed mine.
My biggest issues were:
1) take time to deliberate $700B of spending
2) open-ended authority for dumbasses Paulson and Bernanke
3) no accountability of the financial companies or shareholders. F that one big time.
homedad43
Consider me homedad38. Wife, two little ones, mortgage I can afford but is undoubtedly higher than it should be.
You mentioned the other day you had pulled cash out of the bank and you were encouraging people close to you to do the same.
thanks
Nades:
Yes! Yes, to debt and not equity. DIlute bond holders - equity is small beer.
For what it is worth I called my representative and both my senators today. The legislative staff were interested in hearing my opinion and stated that they are getting a high volume of calls.
I hope you introduced yourself as "Your most obedient and loyal comrade Puerhfan"
BB: back to 200 day MA
INO Equities Stocks Indexes - US DOLLAR INDEX (NYBOT:DX) Price Chart and Quote
Rasmussen poll on bailout: Only 28% Support Federal Bailout Plan
Support: 28%
Opposed: 37%
Undecided: 35%
Rapidly going back to single ply.
BB | 09.22.08 - 12:54 pm | #
Something tells me you're not talking about commercial roofing...
.......
Russian navy ships head to Venezuela
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORL...a.ap/ index.html
Ruh Roh?
For all the stay at home dad's in the house.
YouTube - Stay At Home Dad
And no, I am not a Dad.
Well I finally managed to get a short sale through.
Communism died just a little bit today.
Word hitting trading desks is one of the last fed/ treasury bullets will be abolishing FASB 157. Sorta like saying, "I can make the market stop going down. Just halt trading."
About time to demand any records from President's Working Group meetings and correspondence. We need to know before throwing another nickel at financial institutions.
Hoopajoop is the new term for what used to be called the "free market"
All Hail the Hoopajoop
Not on DHIL, BTW. That would be mean.
Crude slightly above 110.
ac writes:
Well I finally managed to get a short sale through
.... and I bought the SSO @ 55.61. Good luck.
Citizens:
If this bill does not pass as first submitted and TODAY, we will have Great Depression 2.
You don't want that to happen do you?
Regards
G.W.B.
Reich suggests plan modifications
(from Politico)
My five nominees:
Wall Streeters may not like these conditions. Well, you should tell them that the public doesnt like the idea of bailing out Wall Street. So if Wall Street doesnt accept these conditions, it doesnt get the blank check.
As my Chinese laundryman once said to another customer (actually)"No tickee no shirtee"
Calls have been outpacing puts since 10:30 on the isee
If this bill does not pass as first submitted and TODAY, we will have Great Depression 2.
"Give me all your money or I'll pull the trigger. Trust me, there's bullets in this thing."
The problem is not that the government doesn't have have the power to oversee Wall Street. "Government" and "Wall Street" are basically different names for the same type of people.
ac, so true. Kleptocrats - quanxi capitalists.
In other development, Russians are now excited, they know what's going on because most of their leaders has the formative years under a bankrupting USSR, and later done well under a kleptocratic society.
CNBC just reported a BArney Frank plan 'going around'.
Bet there's a hoopajoop involved.
Never fear, Jargon decoder man is here. Hoopajoop came from this post by newbie "Penrod and Sam" in the last thread:
The fed has announced that the stock of Goldman Sacks and other choice firms will be convertible to a curious instrument known as a hoopajoop, which follows rules according to an 800 page manual, portions of which have been released, the bulk of which is yet to be written "some time after november." The fed guarantees that this hoopajoop conversion will solve the liquidity/solvency crisis.
Market reaction was mixed because nobody understands what a hoopajoop is, what the implications of a hoopajoop conversion are, and because the few parts of the 800 page manual which were released today involve novel securitization vehicles which are impossible to use for prediction purposes. Market forces are reeling, too absorbed in contemplating this "brave new world" of hoopajoop investment instruments to act. Paulson announced that this was just one of a series of planned maneuvers to confuse the market with bells, whistles, and startling regulatory surprises, just long enough to pass the novemer elections.
And then Volker the Viking suggested...
Anyone that mentions the words "free market" on Capitol Hill should be smacked. Or worse.
Move that from this point forward any mention of 'free market' be substituted with 'hoopajoop'.
This has been your hoopajoop investment information minute. Continue to go long hoopajoop.
The government (i.e. taxpayers)
The government is not the taxpayers.
They are a different entity and will only serve the taxpayers if the taxpayers force them to be accountable.
Like any group of humans there's no reason to expect that the government won't begin acting solely in its own interest unless forced to do otherwise.
This is one of the key issues the framers of the constitution had to grapple with.
It's not an issue that has suddenly gone away.
The voters are supposed to be the police force for the police force. Right now we're not doing our jobs.
Pardon the non sequiter, but I need some help in answering a legal question.
I cantacted an acquaintance who is an investigative jounalist for a financial magazine. The reporter followed up on the issue of prosecuting under Sarbanes-Oxley. The reporter's sources asserted that Sarbanes-Oxley was not appropriate.
Here imy novice counter analysis.
Sarbanes-Oxley requires the signatories (executives and auditor) to a reporting entity's financial statement to vouch that the financial statement "fairly presents the financial condition of the company".
Financial statements are comprised of standard statement such as balance sheets and income. Further, many accounting rules also require disclosure regarding key inputs for reported values.
Beyond that, financial statement also provide for Discussion & Analysis, which provide a forum to the reporting entity to help the reader to read between the lines.
My point, that at a minimum, there must have been much uncertainty regarding assets and liabilities and that these uncertainties obviously created a lot of risk. If the reportinmg entity did not discuss and analyze the uncertainty and risk, then I do not see how they can maintain that they "fairly represebnted the financial condition of the company".
Does someone have the legal expertise to answer this, or have a friend who does?
How come we can still short those evil tobacco and drug companies, but not any of the "good" financials?
How come we can short Ford but not GM?
How come we can short Disney but not GE?
Goldbugs you visited Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee | Exposing the long-term manipulation of the gold market, lately?
Your home base is under attack. Tomorrow the useless metal shall drop like coal.
Sell now or lose out on the dollar rally. (Commencing soon)
Kind Regards.
I think hoopajoop is slang for proposed plans which are designed to forestall a market drop through confusion, obfuscation, delay, or the introduction of novel, difficult-to-price regulatory measures or instruments.
It's also slang for what our markets have become, which might less confusingly be termed as "obfuscation capitalism."
Text of Dodd bill (pdf): http://www.politico.com/static/PPM41_ayo08b28.html
Still no word on how to PAY FOR THIS CRAP.
ac writes:
Well I finally managed to get a short sale through
.... and I bought the SSO @ 55.61. Good luck.
FYI I've actually been short TWM on and off to attempt to be long RUT and make a bit of extra change off volatility.
Kind of seems like a crazy thing to do, but the stock market is only meant to be for entertainment purposes anyhow. It's all just paper and digital 0s and 1s you know.
Isn't it weird that a company gets to choose whether its shares can be sold short? The legal system has become a funhouse. Except it's not fun.
ac,
lol.... we're all in the same boat.
I kinda envy those J6Ps who are still ignorant of what's going on. My head hurts.
Bought a 100 shares long just because they are off the list
No stopping the buck slide... and it ain't some impulsive sell-off, either.
Slow, methodical, relentless, rolling wave of liquidation.
smoke that, Hank.
Err.. a 7 move in crude?
Off to the races again we are.
well, well, well
McCain's VP Pick Acknowledged Marijuana Use
Sarah Palin Smoked Legal Marijuana, Why Can't You?
::
Dallas Criminal Defense Lawyer Blog
All hail the hoopajoop!
When Palin was asked what she'd do in a bear market.
She answered she would shoot and skin it.
2007 - $38 Billion
2006 - $23.9 Billion
2005 - $20.5 Billion
2004 - $18.6 Billion
2003 - $15.8 Billion
2002 - $9.8 Billion
2001 - $13.0 Billion
Total Wall Street Bonuses during the past 7 years = $140 Billion
Clawback of bonuses = 20% of Paulson's $700B credit card. Start there and then maybe we can talk about the rest of us picking up the tab now.
TED spread up to 2.33 now.
MORE PALIN JOKES PLS
It looks like, even here, the bailout is fait accompli. The only discussion going on is what conditions to add.
All warfare is based on deception - Sun Tzu, the Art of War.
Paulson's plan isn't supposed to pass, it just buys time. Time to do what?
The Russian ships thing is a previously announced naval exercise with Venezuela. Yes, they're doing it to flout the U.S. But it's not a spur of the moment thing.
Crude tipping past $112 - your Treasury at work!
I wish we had some news about what the Chinese actually think of this. They're the ones that are going to be paying for it afterall.
JS,
Markets are down ~2% while interest rates on Treasuries are going up - don't you understand Mandarin?
And the ECB has apparently declined its personal invitation from Hank to join in the Great Bailout.
Maybe Chairman Paulson (yeah - Chairman, as in Great Steersman - bet Chairman Paulson wishes he could write his own little red book, with a happy ending) is discovering that some governments still have limits to what they can do before an enraged electorate kicks them out.
As Churchill almost noted, 'an iron curtain has descended across the Hudson.
Gold $904.0 + $39.50..
My guess is that Diamond Hill insiders would love to buy depressed price shares from short sellers. The above recommendation to "go long" seems right.
FD: I don't own any shares (directly, anyway, maybe some through mutual funds) and will not be buying any.
PeakVT, thanx for the reference to the Dodd bill
on pg 21 (Sec 11): are they talking about cramdowns ?
The recent economic crisis prompted reporters to asked Palin what she would do.
She said to put all your faith in the creator... whose pentasyllabic name was Paulson.
Oops... did Paulson say 700 Billion.. do I hear 800 billion?
"The purchases by Freddie and Fannie helped fuel the boom in lending that led to frozen credit markets, more than $514 billion in bank losses and the collapse of two of the country's biggest securities firms. The subprime overhang may determine whether the $200 billion U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson earmarked for the companies will all be used to rev up mortgage lending. He may have to spend about $300 billion, William Poole, the former Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis president, said in a Bloomberg Television interview this month."
I repeat. They have NO CLUE.
When health spending goes down...
Business News & Financial News - The Wall Street Journal - WSJ.com
New Thread is up.
Best Wishes.
Bow down to GS.
"Sept. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs Group Inc.'s conversion to banks may mean regional lenders including Marshall & Ilsley Corp. and Zions Bancorporation face more competition for deposits and larger credit losses.
The Treasury's plan to buy troubled assets including mortgages could hurt, not help'' small to mid-cap banks</b>, Merrill Lynch & Co. analysts led by Heather Wolf said in a note to investors.Most smaller banks are carrying problem real estate assets -- namely residential construction -- near par, and we doubt the government will offer such attractive valuations.''
Marshall and Ilsley dropped more than 22 percent in New York trading on concern that regional bank profits will be squeezed. The 24-member KBW Bank Index fell almost 8 percent, while the Nasdaq Bank Index of almost 500 smaller lenders dropped 6.4 percent, the most for that benchmark since the 1987 market crash.
Regional banks have not yet marked their troubled assets to market,'' the Merrill analysts said.They will likely still generate large credit losses when they sell assets'' to the government."
Dollar intervention may occur if this continues... what else will they ban next?
on pg 21 (Sec 11): are they talking about cramdowns ?
I think so. I'm not real good at reading legalese. Hopefully Tanta can weigh in on this.
When j6p can't get his OxyContin, you will see blood on the streets.
After taking a quick glance at Dodd's plan, it sounds ok. (Wow.) But what I don't see is a clause for the Feds to profit on the bailout of individual homeowners who get their principal forgiven. I'd say like the assistance for the banks, if the Feds cut your rate or principal, they should get a cut of any future profit on the home when sold.
I look forward to CR's response to Dodd's proposal.
The market is FREE....I am the market and your money is FREE to ME!
Signed: The Government
Money Man, please refrain from referring to the free anything. We have agreed here to refer to it as the hoopajoop.
Nymex halts trading in OIL, temporarily
-skk
Another_guy:
Truthfully, I know of no magic formula.
Assume from history that under deflation - if this is what we get - that there will be a fair number of bankrupt banks.
FDIC is liable to be a little slow.
I'm calling it at least a month of solid needed expenses. Screw the piano lessons, band camp, etc.
What I'm wondering is this. If I mail a check on an account in a failed bank awaiting FDIC workout, does it count as payment for the recipient? It's coming dude, talk to your congressman...
Also consider what other hard assets that you have available if need arises.
CSC:
LOL.
I'm a bit old for that one, but my kids would be into it. When out with my kids someplace, I'll occasionally hike my pants down and turn the hat sideways and become "K-dad".
Pisses them off but it's fun.
jd, just change your handle to jg. Ignorance is bliss!
Sorry for the cut & paste - I could not access the main post link:
Among the major provisions Dodd is adding:
source:
The Crypt: Dodd bill more aggressive than Treasury plan - Politico.com
Anonymous writes:
2007 - $38 Billion
2006 - $23.9 Billion
2005 - $20.5 Billion
2004 - $18.6 Billion
2003 - $15.8 Billion
2002 - $9.8 Billion
2001 - $13.0 Billion
Total Wall Street Bonuses during the past 7 years = $140 Billion
Ya can add:
2008 - $70 Billion (10% fee of the $700 Billion)
Can I get an extension of my hoopajoop...The wife wanted me to ask?
Oh , and I have a serious pain in my rectum. I saw it coming and it was tattooed HPY It did not seem as scary until it got excited and I could read it all. It said HENRY PAULSON AND COMPANY. I think it bruised a lung....
homedad43 -- thanks.... my wife still only lets me wear my tin-foil collander around the house, but I can take $3-$4K out of the bank to tide us over for a month or two
Anybody know why the dollar is getting hammered?
They run a pretty well known Long/Short fund. It was probably to show there non-support for the plan since they run a fund which shorts. Congrats to standing up to it!
Beacuse our national debt is about go double......default city. Maybe we can sell CA to Mexico? Instead of prison camps we will designate CA as the place of banishment of all foreclosed homeowners, since 40% are there already. It will be like culling the sick from the heard. Then, the rest of us can get on with our lives.
Though an admirable move, it's kind of irrelevant. Diamond Hill is an investment advisory company with little or no need for operating capital whatsoever.
insiders want to short their own stock, the simplest explanation is usually the most accurate
)
Buy GS, its the patriotic thing to do.....Go Team America..ra ra ra ra.
Diamond Hill is an asset management company that is highly regarded in the investment adviser community. Among other things, they run a long-short fund focusing on the financial sector, as well as a more diversified long short strategy.
Thank you so much for the following information : "Beazer will discontinue mortgage-origination services through Beazer Mortgage Corp. And it will end its relationship with Homebuilders Financial Network LLC. Instead, it will market Countrywide, the Calabasas, Calif., mortgage company, to buyers of Beazer homes as the preferred mortgage provider. Beazer will take charges, which it can't yet calculate, as it ends the Beazer Mortgage operation." This updated my knowledge to take the necessary steps regarding mortgage. Otherwise i could have wasted my time in en quiring them in person or by phone