So why haven't people who have predicted and outlined the current situation been invited to testify before Congress on the current Paulson putsch? Since Paulson obviously is NOT an expert, why not hear from those who are?
I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.
I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.
I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transaction is 100% safe.
This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.
Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.
Yves Smith wrote today on her blog that Roubini's February predictions suggested that the hedges would melt down in two years. She noted that in fact it has only taken seven months. If Iraq is Vietnam on speed, this is the previous recessions on a double dose of speed.
Alo writes:
go to Congress.org - Get informed, get involved and type in zip code -click on elected officials and hit "contact" tab for numbers -
Alo | 09.23.08 - 1:26 pm | #
Hey, Paulson, I got your locked up credit right here. I just became a lender on prosper. The (real) market will prevail.
You know, it's good to see the senators sound tough and reasonable, but too much of it is posturing and bears little on their subsequent actions. SIGH.
Paulson's bailout plan won't solve this problem: time for another plan.
Cautious Observer
Heck, he'll just ask congress for another trillion. He has no shame and will just bankrupt the country and the taxpayers in order to keep his cronies in the Hamptons.
Yves Smith wrote today on her blog that Roubini's February predictions suggested that the hedges would melt down in two years. She noted that in fact it has only taken seven months.
I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.
I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 700 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.
I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transactin is 100% safe.
This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.
Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.
This term "hedge fund" seems to me a misnomer. What are they hedging? They should be called hyper-leveraged speculation funds. Can anyone tell me if they have any redeeming social value? Seems to me they have much more potential to damage markets by magnifying panics than any contribution.
My closest connection to a hedge fund was when our local Orange Country treasurer turned the tax collector's office into one.
Jim Bunning is a right wing hack, but he can still smoke em with a fastball up under the chin. Got to admire that. Brushback. Bean ball. In the knee cap.
why don't these guys ask Paulson WHY exactly he wants house prices propped up so that they are way out of whack with incomes?? And does this mean that we should all expect to house our children forever?
I am going to build yerts on my property for them. a yert is only $10k.
As I take a step back to look at this situation, I have more confidence that Ben is trying to do the right thing. The question is whether we can keep this sinking ship floating or not. I'm doubtful.
My main problem is that in their efforts to sell this bailout they have to convince people that this is a big part of the solution. The transparency is missing because they are making it up as they go and need flexibility. When the next crisis comes (and it will, before any regulatory fixes are in place) there will be no trust. Restoring trust and transparency is the ONLY solution to our problems. Confidence cannot be restored without them.
Wonder how much cash the sovereign wealth funds have lost so far in this meltdown. It really is considerate for the other nations of the world to keep financing our insanity like this.
The housing agency's director, James Lockhart, suggested Tuesday that mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could loosen lending standards to help more homebuyers qualify for a loan and stabilize the market.
Oh good. More loose lending standards. That should help.
I do not think roubini is an optimist. It is just that he does not say what he is really thinking without dollops of optimism.
Think about it.. He is an Iranian Jew, whose patents had to run away from Iran.. A place where their ancestors had lived for hundreds maybe thousands of years. I think he understands system change and collapse rather well.
Curiously, Taleb (lebanese christian) has a similar personal history where his ancestors, who were rich and well connected lost much of their power in a very short time.
You guys have to give Paulson some credit. It's really hard to stay composed when you're spewing bullshit, you know it, and you know everybody else knows it too.
He feels like a ridiculous clown right now, and rightfully so. But he's gotta keep up the good fight.
yeah it is good to see that gravity was not actually repealed, lovely to see no more investment banks, however why cheer on the possibility of systemic lock-up, black swans, barter, canned goods and chaos? it may only be a 1% chance right now (vs 0.0001% normally) but do you guys all really want that? really?
"You guys have to give Paulson some credit. It's really hard to stay composed when you're spewing bullshit, you know it, and you know everybody else knows it too."
Credit? C'mon, why not cut the BS, then. Sinking in his own bullshit is not appealing.
Dodds Vow, 1:25 p.m. The witnesses have spent most of the day trying to convince the panel to set aside punitive measures for executives until after the bailout. But Senator Dodd heard enough of that by 1:24 p.m., and decided to draw a line in the sand. Any bailout would include executive compensation, he said. Count on it.
The admin should immediately establish a Federal Commercial Bank, a 100percent guarenteed safe haven for individuals, a liquid supply of loans for businesses, and the potential for a case by case basis to take over mortgages.
This would provide stability to the banking sector and leave the highly derived virtual assets to etherize and businesses and banks based upon those same assets to simply dissappear.
Yup, Bayh wants to make sure the "murikans get the benefit, not furriners" Fine by me, this copper-head ( is that the term) thinking at this moment in time.
if the US, nay, the world, is looking into the abyss stands to reason that congress can stick around for a bit more time, and bank executives can take a renumeration package haircut.
the contrast between business as usual and threats of unbelievable crisis are just weird.
bernanke: if prices go up it helps the whole financial systekm. If the dollar doesn;t tank on that comment it never will. bernanke is a fool. And there is nothing more dangerous than arrogance and ignorance.
@scientella: I think that's what he is going to use this $ 700 billion for. Although that money is just for starters. Once he has this money, he'll come back for more. Mark my word.
Ahhhh the bazooka comes into play - you said you wouldn't need to use it, but you pulled it out and blasted everybody with it..
Things don't always work out as intended."
Just how is trust going to be engendered when a robber yells out "give me your money and be quick about it!" You mean if he takes my money and leaves me alive, I will feel trust because he now has my money and I don't? This doesn't make sense. The only thing that can possibly happen are more robberies.
Give them what they want but implement what we want to see...
"blood in the streets" "Clawbacks" Lets go back and get our money back.. Then I can sleep at night.. To keep main street sane we need to see "blood in the streets"!!!
EVERYBODY is handing HP and BB their bum. Every single person's question is right on, and scathing. Every squirmy response by Hank is redirected with "we understand that, but here is our real question"
The gig is up. The Paulson plan is dead. Long live the Dodd plan.
This is far different than after the Bear deal when the Congresspeople were fawning over Ben and how he saved us from ourselves.
as example:
Sen Bob Corker:
"Chairman Bernanke, you mentioned we were going to be buying second leins. SURELY we're not going to be buying second leins with taxpayer money!"
Corcoran - This is a concept. No way it's going to be done in 14 days. We need a process defined and a pilot tranche, and we're gonna know who the Treas Sec will be, before we give up 700 B
If these guys stick to their guns, then I will start to have faith in America again. Isn't that going to do more for US Treasuries than anything else? The fact that we have some fucking rule of law????
Corker...this project is not going to happen in 14 days (in other words, what's the rush with handing over all our dough?)
So bring us back a fully baked concept. Can't imagine why that's not acceptable to you.
HP: under "normal" circumstances that would be a good way to go...these are extraordinary circumstances. We can implement a program in a few weeks...after you (Congress) all act. There will plenty of time afterwards to add in transparency, have flexibility, blah blah
IOW: Give us the money, then we'll work out a plan. Hah!
No, I don't really want it, but I am executing on the plan in case it comes to pass. I am only encouraged by the possibility that the pain could be severe but thorough and relatively short (2-3 years). Please note that I'm not predicting recovery in 2-3 years, only hopeful that if we do immolate, perhaps it won't last as long as a lost decade. A true downturn could washout the excesses of too little character and principle in our current socio-economic state. We sit in the abyss for some time and figure out who we really are...the country of the history books I was taught as a child, or the reality of what I have witnessed in the past 30 years as an adult.
Anybody notice that 3 month T-Bill yeilds heading right back down, at 0.36% right now. The TED spread at 2.33, down from its peaks last week, but still worse than any of the previous peaks durring this year long disaster movie.
The credit markets have not unfrozen at all. Main St is in for a world of hurt
"there are times when we have appropriated funds, but then FENCED those funds, so that they've been appropriated, they're not just a goal. then you can set up some sort of conditionality."
"No, I don't really want it, but I am executing on the plan in case it comes to pass. "
good answer, I feel roughly the same way.
But I can't bring myself to post "whee! TED spread skyrocketing! yay! banks are going tits up! lets see the lines of people! cool! higher unemployment"..
If I met someone gloating this much in person, I'd think them insane.
If you have concerns about using $700Billion to $1.8Trillion of your tax dollars to bailout the financial services industry please consider calling or emailing one or all of the Senators listed below. These Senators are seen as the most likely to stand up for the taxpayer on this matter. Message:
For the good of the United States of America , I am asking the Senator to stand up and protect the taxpayer. Please filibuster Bush/Paulson's proposal and take time to consider other alternatives to address this issue.
If you believe this is important please send this post to 5 or 10 of your friends and have them do the same. Do it now, while you are thinking about it.
Shelby, Richard C.- (202) 224-5744
B unning, Jim - (202) 224-4343
G rassley, Chuck - (202) 224-3744
K yl, Jon - (202) 224-4521
E nsign, John - (202) 224-6244
As much as I want to see executive compensation whacked - it's the least important part of this whole operation - well behind transparency and a legitimate way of valuing these craptacular securities.
btw before celebrating the sudden perspicuity of the banking committee be aware they are politicians first and foremost and know they are getting more tv exposure right now than a finalist on american idol.
They therefore are likely to posture and score points with zingers .. fine ..
but how do you know they won't announce tomorrow that a closed door meeting convinced them things are worse than previously imagined, so plan approved largely as is?
He really can't say why he NEEDS this total $700 B NOW"
Agreed. But on a larger point: I'm very worried. Why does Paulson think he needs this cash now? There must be an unstated reason. or perhaps he is just plain evil.
I'm guessing there is something big behind the scenes that they can't say. but this is in the end the big problem with our executive government for some time now... they feel that onnly they can make decisions, and they withhold informatoin from the general populace at their own discretion.
don't like "fencing" the funds b/c once appropriated too easy for Congress to starting paying them out. That is an easy out for Congress to make them look like they are being tough. I want hearings again in a month. I want it to be hard to get this money out.
depending on where you sit, Bunning and Corker or Dodd and frank have some ideas you don't like . . . but they are forging some broad areas of agreement on the financial panic
still some differences, but they agree not take BS from Paulson, and that is a good start.
The gov. will pay "hold to maturity" price but it anticipates selling some of those assets. Who will pay that higher price. They are in substance saying that the will lose money on most of the junk purchased.
They are simply giving away money to recapitalize the banks and other entities for free.
Seriously, the testimony of HPaulson and BB are not helping their case at all. Their remarks sound dismissive of rational taxpayer concerns beyond Wall Street.
Many people across the USA have been experiencing a contraction of their opportunities for years and no one in Washington seemed to care. Today HP & BB failed to explain to the folks in Ohio why NOW is a sudden critical moment. Not but a few weeks ago these folks heard themselves referred to as a bunch of whiners when they tried to describe the kind of losses they were experiencing. Before that Obama accidently referred to them as bitter.
And this is going to cost a lot more than several thousand per taxpayer. Local taxes are going up, Federal taxes are going up, and buying power is being undercut by inflation. And year after year, we'll be paying these increases.
Hedgies going under? LOL couldn't happen to nicer people IMHO.
One thing that noone involved with the bailout is talking about is flat to lower wages for an outstanding majority of the US citizenry. How does buying these assets at above value help the typical person afford them? It doesn't. It just helps the corporations recatipalize long enough to buy up more and establishes a postmodern version of the landed gentry.
As I have been saying all along, this isn't over until a city burns.
I have nightmares that Roubini is actually an optimist.
first me?
what? the bailout will be fine.
The dominoes continue to fall. No doubt this private risk is about to be collectivized upon all our backs.
Paulson's bailout plan won't solve this problem: time for another plan.
So why haven't people who have predicted and outlined the current situation been invited to testify before Congress on the current Paulson putsch? Since Paulson obviously is NOT an expert, why not hear from those who are?
Get tired bernake out of there and put in Roubini
hank and die slow...
.......
Damn Roubini's good.
fintag has been talking about this every morning
In Soviet Amerika, masses redeem hedge funds.
Write in Roubini for President.
The markets and Keynesians are in for a nasty lesson in Austrian School of Economics. Crunch, crunch.
Roubini is an optimist.
His recession call is for what 18 months?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Roubini is the Socrates of finance apparently. I give him six months until we hang him for pointing out our faults.
--
Roubini for Treas Sec and CR for President. Tanta for VP?
Sexist pig,
Jas
If I have another child, I'm going to name him or her Roubini.
Dear American:
I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.
I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.
I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transaction is 100% safe.
This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.
Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.
Yours Faithfully Minister of Treasury Paulso
When will they decide this bailout plan ?
Jas-
sexist pig with lipstick.
Uck-Fe those Hedgies....wait until the CDS market gets some more regulation, then we'll really see some fireworks.
Hank: "We need more lending."
Money and ponies for everyone...
....
Yves Smith wrote today on her blog that Roubini's February predictions suggested that the hedges would melt down in two years. She noted that in fact it has only taken seven months. If Iraq is Vietnam on speed, this is the previous recessions on a double dose of speed.
That Roubini is a clever dude.
I'm sure he is a wonderful teacher too.
I am taking out at least 2 weeks of living expenses from my bank and tin-canning it in the back yard.
just sayin....
I think the term maybe isn't "too big to fail."
It's, "Too Pig To Fail."
On CNBC.com
"Cramer: Sell, Sell, Sell This Market"
I have nightmares that Roubini is actually an optimist.
Nemo
After these last 2 weeks... we were ALL incredibly optimist.
Even Jas.
Paulson just completely punted on the question of executive compensation.
At last - Sen. Bunning
Batter up
Has Paulson indicated yet how quickly he wants to blow through $700 billion?
Alo writes:
and type in zip code -click on elected officials and hit "contact" tab for numbers -
go to Congress.org - Get informed, get involved
Alo | 09.23.08 - 1:26 pm | #
(from before)
I have enough in the bank to maintain my monthly float.
The rest is physical currency in a safe place.
Since July.
Sen. Bunning up now
Hey, Paulson, I got your locked up credit right here. I just became a lender on prosper. The (real) market will prevail.
You know, it's good to see the senators sound tough and reasonable, but too much of it is posturing and bears little on their subsequent actions. SIGH.
Warming up
Cue the bulls calling Roubini a fraud for being a one note musician who had to be right eventually.
Anyone see the " no welfare for the rich" and " bail out of Iraq" sign behind Ben.
heh.
I have nightmares that Roubini is actually an optimist
Lol! Let's hope they are only dreams.
Since this is a housing issue, then why do you want to bail out student loans, and CC loans ?
Great question.. HP says - not MY idea !
-K
Paulson's bailout plan won't solve this problem: time for another plan.
Cautious Observer
Heck, he'll just ask congress for another trillion. He has no shame and will just bankrupt the country and the taxpayers in order to keep his cronies in the Hamptons.
Why are student loans and credit card debts being included? -- Bunning
Yves Smith wrote today on her blog that Roubini's February predictions suggested that the hedges would melt down in two years. She noted that in fact it has only taken seven months.
Roubini is an optimist?! Who would've guessed.
Dodd to Paulson: we are going tosee to it that you and your friends will be paid shit when you go back to GS
This is the hearing on the Frank/Dodd bill, not the Paulson pla
Dear American:
I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.
I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 700 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.
I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transactin is 100% safe.
This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.
Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.
Yours Faithfully Minister of Treasury Paulso
Just called him a liar
On buying credit card and student loan debt:
Paulson: "mmmy p ppp proposal is t tt too...."
Bunning is great !!!
That was friggin hilarious Caitlin.
I hope Paulson wore a cup.
This term "hedge fund" seems to me a misnomer. What are they hedging? They should be called hyper-leveraged speculation funds. Can anyone tell me if they have any redeeming social value? Seems to me they have much more potential to damage markets by magnifying panics than any contribution.
My closest connection to a hedge fund was when our local Orange Country treasurer turned the tax collector's office into one.
(above comment shamelessly stolen from nakedcapitalism.com)
Nailing him on student loans and CC loans..
-K
Jim Bunning is a right wing hack, but he can still smoke em with a fastball up under the chin. Got to admire that. Brushback. Bean ball. In the knee cap.
why don't these guys ask Paulson WHY exactly he wants house prices propped up so that they are way out of whack with incomes?? And does this mean that we should all expect to house our children forever?
I am going to build yerts on my property for them. a yert is only $10k.
Good one, Caitlin.
ok....must understand and implement
'mad pearl skillz'
today...
next...
go fishin for some nemo
Comrade Bagholder Interesting Times,
"we were ALL incredibly optimist."
What you mean WE white man. I been calling cascading cross defaults for over 18 months.
Nostrovia,
wally - Rounini has testified before congress. He warned them, among other things, of a 'jingle mail tsunami'. I'll have to dig up a link for you.
Forget about the student loans get to the commercial building loans.
students get a pass... we (everyone) need educated little ones....
..........
Biden and Carper will come through for their boys. No doubt that is how the credit cards companies got their finger in this pie in the first place.
CEO of GS coming up! I heard clapping
fuck, sorry folks, did not see that Caitlin posted the same thing...
o no above the kneecap
OOFA.. Nailing him on hos role at GS!!!
whoa ..... fastball behind the ear!
On CNBC.com
"Cramer: Sell, Sell, Sell This Market"
Holy crap.
Bunning:
HA ! How long were you CEO of GS ?
But you only just realised about the regulatory maze after you became Treasury Sec ?
Brilliant
As I take a step back to look at this situation, I have more confidence that Ben is trying to do the right thing. The question is whether we can keep this sinking ship floating or not. I'm doubtful.
My main problem is that in their efforts to sell this bailout they have to convince people that this is a big part of the solution. The transparency is missing because they are making it up as they go and need flexibility. When the next crisis comes (and it will, before any regulatory fixes are in place) there will be no trust. Restoring trust and transparency is the ONLY solution to our problems. Confidence cannot be restored without them.
you were CEO and you didn't understand??????? That's aiming for his nuts.
Bunning: "Now, this is gonna hurt a little."
Bunning is asking him if, in his capacity as CEO of GS, he in fact did not realize how bad things were.
He says basically no, he didn't know, he wasn't looking at the broader economy, nor at other institutions.
Maybe he should have read the Wall Street Journal from time to time.
Bunning - "Bank of China complaining?"
Oh, the word debt just appeared
Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS
Lobbiest? isn't he chairman?
Wikipedia: "Gramm is a vice-chairman of UBS Investment Bank, a financial services company based in Switzerland."
Yeah, anyone stunned that foreign banks were to be included in teh bailout?
I love that a former Philadelphia Phillies pitcher is our hardball savior right now
I can smell the load in Paulson's pants from here.
WOOOOOH, did he just say "panic"!!!
Bunning for Treasury sec!
Wonder how much cash the sovereign wealth funds have lost so far in this meltdown. It really is considerate for the other nations of the world to keep financing our insanity like this.
Go Senator Bunning!
Now, after three brushbacks, Bunning is going to plunk 2 curveballs in the strike zone, then a fast ball down the middle.
curve 1 - what about China?
curve 2 - what happens when you leave?
this one makes him look really foolish.
strike out pitch coming . . .
did anyone hear that?
Debt and panic, thought that was taboo on the Hill.
HP: It all started before I got here !
Whoah ! This man is a CEO ? Even as a lowly country, not corporate level director I wasn't allowed to say that..
-K
Market reacting to Bunning... thanks for exposing Paulson as a preening fool!
"I am frightful, almost to the point of panic that I don't see a solution in your plan to address this crisis"
Bunning
How;s that for saying I think you are full of shit??
"What happens if this doesn't work?"
sounded like someone's sphinter is about to fail
Roubini for Treas Sec and CR for President. Tanta for VP?
Tanta for Dept of Education..
Excellent!!
On another note,
who here wants to kick Paulson's ass? Let's get a huge group together and not that bastard go until he's a limp mess.
BB:
I can't predict the future, and I've been wrong several times.
So F*ckn RESIGN !
-K
Comrade Bagholders,
Maybe it's the Hedgy Shadow Bankrun that's got Hanky so nervous?
Time to change the batteries.
BRB.
Nostrovia,
Ben: There is a chance that we'll come back and say we did not need this money at all.
Mmmmkaayy.... that was insightful.
"What happens if this doesn't work?"
This question keeps getting dodged. I wish they would hammer away on it until HP gave a real answer.
got the pitch count right
here's the last question . . .
Greenspan said it won't work, not enoug money, who knows, what's your backup plan . . . . . . . . . .
strikeout pitch: swinging miss, turning like a gate, Bernake admits mistakes, doesn't know it will work........
Not entirely OT, Fannie / Freddie director wants to "loosen lending standards.
Expired
The housing agency's director, James Lockhart, suggested Tuesday that mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could loosen lending standards to help more homebuyers qualify for a loan and stabilize the market.
Oh good. More loose lending standards. That should help.
I do not think roubini is an optimist. It is just that he does not say what he is really thinking without dollops of optimism.
Think about it.. He is an Iranian Jew, whose patents had to run away from Iran.. A place where their ancestors had lived for hundreds maybe thousands of years. I think he understands system change and collapse rather well.
Curiously, Taleb (lebanese christian) has a similar personal history where his ancestors, who were rich and well connected lost much of their power in a very short time.
Bunning for President
You guys have to give Paulson some credit. It's really hard to stay composed when you're spewing bullshit, you know it, and you know everybody else knows it too.
He feels like a ridiculous clown right now, and rightfully so. But he's gotta keep up the good fight.
Why isnt Roubini on the Hill right now and why arent they listening to his ideas?
Bayh was smart on TV the other, called BS on opponents of compensation caps. Said, if its not so bad, then no bailout needed.....
Now he starts by probing the failure of the private sector. lets get it out. is this a crisis?
Punative.... I want f'in blood..
....
It is weird to be celebrating ones own immolation
yeah it is good to see that gravity was not actually repealed, lovely to see no more investment banks, however why cheer on the possibility of systemic lock-up, black swans, barter, canned goods and chaos? it may only be a 1% chance right now (vs 0.0001% normally) but do you guys all really want that? really?
Including private sector investment is punative, and will doom the plan.
Only government intervention will work.
These guys don't want to invest a plug nickel in their own plan.
OT: I have been calling this morning. Does anyone have a list of the Senators that are doing a good job so I can call and extend my support?
don't propose conditions and STFU! I am almost waiting for Paulson to flip the table, flash his Goldman Sachs badge and storm out of the room.
@Gavshire Hathaway
WTF ?
All school grads behave this way easily
DOPE UR ASS DUDE
Thats Ballgame Comrades writes:
Bunning for President
Hear hear!
Ben...there is probably an equal chance that you will roll out of bed tomorrow morning and trip over your dick.
Just the same, I wouldn't bet on it.
I think the Dead Parrot rant would fit in there about now...
Bayh pushing on downside risk: equity stake.
Bernake, you admitted you don't know how to value, so why no protection????
And I always thought Bayh was an idiot. Happy to admit I was wrong
"You guys have to give Paulson some credit. It's really hard to stay composed when you're spewing bullshit, you know it, and you know everybody else knows it too."
Credit? C'mon, why not cut the BS, then. Sinking in his own bullshit is not appealing.
I say kick that bastard's ass.
So where oh where are people putting the proceeds from these withdrawals from Money Market Funds etc.
Under the mattress? In coffee cans buried in the backyard?
And is that mattress in the USA or in the UAE or China or another BRIC country?
Yeah Bayh questions and x-question of BB's answer was cutting.
-K
There is no goddamned exclusion principle between taxpayer participation and bailout.
pulled from the lede at NYT
Dodds Vow, 1:25 p.m. The witnesses have spent most of the day trying to convince the panel to set aside punitive measures for executives until after the bailout. But Senator Dodd heard enough of that by 1:24 p.m., and decided to draw a line in the sand. Any bailout would include executive compensation, he said. Count on it.
Bayh - "I found the explanation to be somewhat unpersuasive"
better than even odds says market's lower on oct 2 when short ban is lifted than the rumor day of thursday 9/18
The admin should immediately establish a Federal Commercial Bank, a 100percent guarenteed safe haven for individuals, a liquid supply of loans for businesses, and the potential for a case by case basis to take over mortgages.
This would provide stability to the banking sector and leave the highly derived virtual assets to etherize and businesses and banks based upon those same assets to simply dissappear.
Please keep up the excellent play-by-play, all. I'm getting a server busy error.
Thanks!
Yup. It is Dodd who is telling Paulson how it will be, not the other way around.
Bayh and his father had served well.
lets hope he nails BB in his ass
i can't believe i'm on the same side as Dodd
this mess has put me in the bizarro world
Comrade Bagholders,
Sounds like Bunning is handing Hanky his ass.
WooHoo!
BTW great play by play guys/gals.
Nostrovia,
Yup, Bayh wants to make sure the "murikans get the benefit, not furriners" Fine by me, this copper-head ( is that the term) thinking at this moment in time.
-K
Comrade Clueless Dufus writes:
Bayh - "I found the explanation to be somewhat unpersuasive"
That's a gentleman's response.
If the poster's here were to respond..
if the US, nay, the world, is looking into the abyss stands to reason that congress can stick around for a bit more time, and bank executives can take a renumeration package haircut.
the contrast between business as usual and threats of unbelievable crisis are just weird.
bernanke: if prices go up it helps the whole financial systekm. If the dollar doesn;t tank on that comment it never will. bernanke is a fool. And there is nothing more dangerous than arrogance and ignorance.
@scientella: I think that's what he is going to use this $ 700 billion for. Although that money is just for starters. Once he has this money, he'll come back for more. Mark my word.
I've got a boozaka in my pocket!
....
trickle down theory, agai
Hey HP, you said you wouldn't need to use the bazooka and you did. You were wrong !
Ahhhh the bazooka comes into play - you said you wouldn't need to use it, but you pulled it out and blasted everybody with it..
Things don't always work out as intended."
Senator Corker above.
-K
Thank you for bringing up the bazooka theory and how well it worked...
Talk about wordy. Jeesh, get to the point.
Corker's telling Paulson that he needs to come back when they have an actual plan, not merely a "concept."
Who wrote that last thread:
"If this is an investment I'm not interested"
.....
When are they going to address the cancellation of the Christmas shopping season??
Just how is trust going to be engendered when a robber yells out "give me your money and be quick about it!" You mean if he takes my money and leaves me alive, I will feel trust because he now has my money and I don't? This doesn't make sense. The only thing that can possibly happen are more robberies.
can I has my ammo back plez?
Give them what they want but implement what we want to see...
"blood in the streets" "Clawbacks" Lets go back and get our money back.. Then I can sleep at night.. To keep main street sane we need to see "blood in the streets"!!!
The bazooka was a warmup. I want the BOMB!
gold is tanking and dollar up. Free markets.
merciless writes:
Corker's telling Paulson that he needs to come back when they have an actual plan, not merely a "concept."
But it's a 'concept plan' which will evolve as it continues.
You can't cancel Christmas. Jesus won't be happy
Corcoran has him on paying above market for securities with no protection by equity in retur
live commentary pls
whoah ! You are running a reverse auction but its of unalike securities ! Brilliant..
Senator Corker
Paulson talking about marks . . .admitting he is a con-ma
Do you hear the people sing. Singing the songs of angry men.
This guy knows what he is talking about.
Gives me some hope.
Who is he?
....
"come back and talk to us when you can put some meat on the bones"
"you are crowding out private capital, yes?"
HP - stammer, stutter, "it's a very complicated process, must cast a net broadly-"
"due diligence (mark to market) will be massive, yes or no"
HP - errr.
Does Corcoran read CR? he's talking about how the MBS are not all the same, therfor can'tbe valued as a class . . .
Is Corcoran CR????
Corker to BB - Surely you aren't asking the taxpayer to buy second-lien securities
-K
Tremendous due diligence. Nice.
"Surely we're not buying second liens with taxpayer money?"
Corcoran - Hey BBB, tell me we're not gonna buy 2nd liens?
BB - We might
BB- I was only saying IF... Lying toad..
-K
"Surely we are not going to be buying second liens with taxpayer money..." NICE.
bernake
second liens a great investment?
Surely we will not be buying second liens with taxpayer money???
See the live bloomberg feed here :
Watch Bloomberg TV US Live Online | Free Online Bloomberg TV US Tv Channel
Just cause some else owns the second lien doesn't make them go away!!! Is BB nuts?
Smack down time!!!
Christmas has been cancelled?! I hope not. Couldn't Santa see children at the Dollar Store instead of Macy's this year?
Wow - a senator realizes that the seconds are worthless?
CORCORAN IS CR ???
Sounds like Bunning is handing Hanky his ass.
EVERYBODY is handing HP and BB their bum. Every single person's question is right on, and scathing. Every squirmy response by Hank is redirected with "we understand that, but here is our real question"
The gig is up. The Paulson plan is dead. Long live the Dodd plan.
This is far different than after the Bear deal when the Congresspeople were fawning over Ben and how he saved us from ourselves.
as example:
Sen Bob Corker:
"Chairman Bernanke, you mentioned we were going to be buying second leins. SURELY we're not going to be buying second leins with taxpayer money!"
tax the industry! Who is this guy? He's great.
Wow - a senator realizes that the seconds are worthless?
YES.
2nd liens...well they are only pennies on the dollar, so whats the big deal? -BB
The Dollar Stores just broke the buck...
Corker:
This is a concept.. and you want 700B for a concept.
How do they say it in here - Fugetabutit
You'll get it tranche by tranche.
-K
Were only buying second liens to deal with the first liens...
Is that really how it works?
I thought you could negotiate with the first irregardless of the existence of seconds....
Am I wrong...
......
Corcoran is calling total BS, TOTAL BS
Corcoran - This is a concept. No way it's going to be done in 14 days. We need a process defined and a pilot tranche, and we're gonna know who the Treas Sec will be, before we give up 700 B
I am loving this guy Corker. He wants to see a plan that is FULLY BAKED. Rock n roll.
wow 2nds are worthless
is my faith in american democracy being restored?
"We're gonna know who the Treasury Secretary really is."
Wowza.
Corker:
Come back with an intelligent proposal.. I can't imagine why this isn't acceptable to you
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
-K
I nominate "fully baked concept" as term of the hearing.
"come back with something intelligent" 30-90 days and send a signal to the market. Paulson and bernanke 0 taxpayer 100
Corcoran is supporting the Schumer proposal
come back fully baked! He called them half baked!
I love this guy
Come back with a fully baked plan...
Go senator.
A lot of "I believe"s. How about some facts?
I can't watch the testimony, but the posts here are giving me a glimmer of hope.
I honestly thought this thing would get rammed through without much of a second thought.
I can't believe Congress has grown a spine.
corcoran is CR+Tanta's love child
Arrrgh - Bloomberg pulling away from the hearings
Bearbarians have taken the outer wall of S&P1200 and are now taking their second crack at breaking through to the inner keep (1190)...
Ding Ding Ding.... Paulson trying to throw in the white towel.
If these guys stick to their guns, then I will start to have faith in America again. Isn't that going to do more for US Treasuries than anything else? The fact that we have some fucking rule of law????
Corker...this project is not going to happen in 14 days (in other words, what's the rush with handing over all our dough?)
So bring us back a fully baked concept. Can't imagine why that's not acceptable to you.
HP: under "normal" circumstances that would be a good way to go...these are extraordinary circumstances. We can implement a program in a few weeks...after you (Congress) all act. There will plenty of time afterwards to add in transparency, have flexibility, blah blah
IOW: Give us the money, then we'll work out a plan. Hah!
Anonymous: on immolation
No, I don't really want it, but I am executing on the plan in case it comes to pass. I am only encouraged by the possibility that the pain could be severe but thorough and relatively short (2-3 years). Please note that I'm not predicting recovery in 2-3 years, only hopeful that if we do immolate, perhaps it won't last as long as a lost decade. A true downturn could washout the excesses of too little character and principle in our current socio-economic state. We sit in the abyss for some time and figure out who we really are...the country of the history books I was taught as a child, or the reality of what I have witnessed in the past 30 years as an adult.
If you can't do it without trust and transparency you can't do it.
Anybody notice that 3 month T-Bill yeilds heading right back down, at 0.36% right now. The TED spread at 2.33, down from its peaks last week, but still worse than any of the previous peaks durring this year long disaster movie.
The credit markets have not unfrozen at all. Main St is in for a world of hurt
Once this is done, there will be plenty of time to add transparency... -HP
NO! It's going to be the other way around
We need the money right now, no strings, because these are extraordinary times and this is what we need here to deal with this market situation.
There'll be plenty of time to add transparency, flexibility, but...
I want the world
I want the whole world
I want to lock it
all up in my pocket
It's my bar of chocolate...
Dow down 150+
THAT'S your (not-quite) free market
HP: We both want to protect the taxpayer... calm the markets.. all that stuff.
-K
Sen Bunning was the starter. 8 great innings.
Sen Corcoran is the closer: Mariano Rivera and Dennis Eckersly at their most unhittable.
Nifty hitting by hagel, Schumer, Dodd, Bayh, and more
This committee is a good team.
Arg! Bloomberg stopped.
Hank lets be honest.
You dont give a fuck about me.
....
Market down 160 and dropping like a stone.
Look out below!
Watch it here --
http://banking.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fuseaction=Hearings.Detail&HearingID=7a41ae9e-30b2-4d7f-8f1b-4ef2e8ae28f7
and by "taxpayer" I mean "Goldman Sachs shareholder"
cnbc has it live.
How about this for a vote of confidence for the American citizen:
banking.senate.gov is DOWN!
Bunning gets the CY Young Award!
Comrade Bagholders,
"Corcoran - Hey BBB, tell me we're not gonna buy 2nd liens?
BB - We might"
Unfriggin believable. I know Bernutty does not believe that anywhere near par on those things is going to get repaid at term.
This proves that they are out right lying.
Nostrovia,
Where's the live coverage gone?
Dodd stepping up for considering Corcoran, telling Paulson to go blow if he isn't willing to bend.
C-SPAN Radio Live Stream - C-SPAN
s_puttnick,
thats great!
......
"And there is nothing more dangerous than arrogance and ignorance."
WRONG: ignorance and leverage [from Buffet]
So maybe the state isn't the executive committee of the bourgeoisie? Hoocoodonode?
*note: it's really too early to tell.
He is Bob Corker - R - TN. 202-224-3344.
Call him to tell him he just kicked some ass.
How many centuries has Akaka been a Senator? since my childhood, I believe...
Listen to it here:
C-SPAN Radio Live Stream - C-SPAN
xanadu
tahnks. I couldn't make out the name.
eed to shower to wash off some of Paulson's testimony. back in 5 to 10.
FYI:
It's senator CORKER not Corcoran.
Dodd then summarized an idea (hank won't like it)
"there are times when we have appropriated funds, but then FENCED those funds, so that they've been appropriated, they're not just a goal. then you can set up some sort of conditionality."
Dodd looks like the hand behind paulson.
whoah..creep - Akaka asks how 700B will help Fed's objective..
BB- helps full employment...
Maybe, but WHAT ABOUT price stability, you wanker.
-K
Why is Bloomberg not live? argh
NoVAOnlooker writes:
Listen to it here:
Thanks NoVAOnlooker
Saved the day
C-span is the only channel to ever watch
"No, I don't really want it, but I am executing on the plan in case it comes to pass. "
good answer, I feel roughly the same way.
But I can't bring myself to post "whee! TED spread skyrocketing! yay! banks are going tits up! lets see the lines of people! cool! higher unemployment"..
If I met someone gloating this much in person, I'd think them insane.
verdict of Paulson's testimony: F A I L
He really can't say why he NEEDS this total $700 B NOW
BB: I'd rather be doing monetary policy.
Well, I'd rather be skiing you wanker but there's no snow. Fool.
-K
Comrade Baron Von Helmut III writes:
Why is Bloomberg not live? argh
Watch Bloomberg TV US Live Online | Free Online Bloomberg TV US Tv Channel
NoVAOnlooker writes:
Listen to it here:
Error Radio_wm.aspx
NoVAOnlooker | Homepage | 09.23.08 - 1:59 pm | #
put in a surgeon! it's time to slice and dice!
gosh darn pravda media. server overload on .gov, bloomberg doing propaganda as is cnbc.
fine. i'll go make some money and enjoy this pretty day in NYC.
going back to comrade.
they just rejoined the pigroast
We'll see if these guys still hold strong after the Dow is at 8000 and falling...I hope so, but I'm not counting on that in an election year.
Akaka - Do you plan to have competitive bidding.
HP - We don't have time for that
Here's the link again, audio only:
C-SPAN Radio Live Stream - C-SPAN
That's right. There's a time in everybody's life when they gotta play the clown with a smile.
C-SPAN-# still carying live.
Open in IE or IE tab.
I want the SEC Chairman's head. I want it now.
Oops C-SPAN-3
If you have concerns about using $700Billion to $1.8Trillion of your tax dollars to bailout the financial services industry please consider calling or emailing one or all of the Senators listed below. These Senators are seen as the most likely to stand up for the taxpayer on this matter. Message:
For the good of the United States of America , I am asking the Senator to stand up and protect the taxpayer. Please filibuster Bush/Paulson's proposal and take time to consider other alternatives to address this issue.
If you believe this is important please send this post to 5 or 10 of your friends and have them do the same. Do it now, while you are thinking about it.
Shelby, Richard C.- (202) 224-5744
B unning, Jim - (202) 224-4343
G rassley, Chuck - (202) 224-3744
K yl, Jon - (202) 224-4521
E nsign, John - (202) 224-6244
ew thread up
As much as I want to see executive compensation whacked - it's the least important part of this whole operation - well behind transparency and a legitimate way of valuing these craptacular securities.
btw before celebrating the sudden perspicuity of the banking committee be aware they are politicians first and foremost and know they are getting more tv exposure right now than a finalist on american idol.
They therefore are likely to posture and score points with zingers .. fine ..
but how do you know they won't announce tomorrow that a closed door meeting convinced them things are worse than previously imagined, so plan approved largely as is?
COX IS WASTING PRIME TIME COMEDY
"verdict of Paulson's testimony: F A I L
He really can't say why he NEEDS this total $700 B NOW"
Agreed. But on a larger point: I'm very worried. Why does Paulson think he needs this cash now? There must be an unstated reason. or perhaps he is just plain evil.
I'm guessing there is something big behind the scenes that they can't say. but this is in the end the big problem with our executive government for some time now... they feel that onnly they can make decisions, and they withhold informatoin from the general populace at their own discretion.
Builder Bob writes:
"I want the SEC Chairman's head. I want it now."
Was he the one that allowed Wall Street lever up from 12:1 to 30:1
don't like "fencing" the funds b/c once appropriated too easy for Congress to starting paying them out. That is an easy out for Congress to make them look like they are being tough. I want hearings again in a month. I want it to be hard to get this money out.
ew thread
Larry writes:
The markets and Keynesians are in for a nasty lesson in Austrian School of Economics. Crunch, crunch.
Larry, your statement reminds me of how the Pilgrim leadership admonished the group after half died that first winter. You're not praying hard enough!
We'll see if these guys still hold strong after the Dow is at 8000 and falling...I hope so, but I'm not counting on that in an election year.
Doesn't even need to get there. ... 9999 will cause a full-scale panic
Sen. X - could THIS affect the credit rating of the US ?
HP - bullshitting..
-K
Corker apparently thinks global warming is not man-made .. just in case anyone thinks he is clear headed.
"get closer to the microphone"
LOL...
the time for preparation is long since over.
this is about triage now. in triage you take it one day at a time, one patient and a time.
Fuck you Hank, I am not giving you a blank check for shit!
Period!
"could this threaten the credit rating of the U.S. Treasury?"
Paulson ducks the question.
i don;t see a new thread
do i see dead threads only?
ohhh now everything we do affects the credit rating...
totally dodges the question.
...
Sen. X - My question is .. in a exasperated tone - Could this affect the US credit rating..
HP - Obviously it could.. but this is different..
It ISN'T going to affect it ?
X - So.. increase in debt would NOT affect rating.
BB - I don't think so ( LIAR!) but I don't know how the ratings agencies evaluate the rating ( LIAR AGAIN)>
-K
Well, in a yes/no world, that answer would classify as a "yes".
Roubini also predicted Britney Spears' comeback, David Foster Wallace's suicide, and last night's Jets blowout!
He IS Dr. Doom.
Roubini is amazing. didn't he used be a regular on Johnny Carson?
Yes or no, will it affect the credit rating of the U.S.?
Put it to stammering and yammering Hank!!!!!!
depending on where you sit, Bunning and Corker or Dodd and frank have some ideas you don't like . . . but they are forging some broad areas of agreement on the financial panic
still some differences, but they agree not take BS from Paulson, and that is a good start.
Somebody else take it up.. I have to keep an eye on the indexes - CNBC is not longer broadcasting the hearings
-K
Paulos, "our motive is not to prop up foreign banks"
Good. Maybe the mkt will go up a little so I can finish getting out .
"CNBC is not longer broadcasting the hearings"
Section 8 baby!
Finally asking about Section 8
With boos in the room!
The gov. will pay "hold to maturity" price but it anticipates selling some of those assets. Who will pay that higher price. They are in substance saying that the will lose money on most of the junk purchased.
They are simply giving away money to recapitalize the banks and other entities for free.
Great plan, lets just give them money.
HP: "I hear your comment"
Is that like, "I feel your pain"?
Shelby up.
ew thread
Wall Street helping Wall Street from Dole...that get's to the heart of it.
gets...god I need to proof read my comments, too.
C'mon, with all the poop on the floor of the Senate, there's gotta be a pony in there somewhere!!
Seriously, the testimony of HPaulson and BB are not helping their case at all. Their remarks sound dismissive of rational taxpayer concerns beyond Wall Street.
Many people across the USA have been experiencing a contraction of their opportunities for years and no one in Washington seemed to care. Today HP & BB failed to explain to the folks in Ohio why NOW is a sudden critical moment. Not but a few weeks ago these folks heard themselves referred to as a bunch of whiners when they tried to describe the kind of losses they were experiencing. Before that Obama accidently referred to them as bitter.
And this is going to cost a lot more than several thousand per taxpayer. Local taxes are going up, Federal taxes are going up, and buying power is being undercut by inflation. And year after year, we'll be paying these increases.
Hedgies going under? LOL couldn't happen to nicer people IMHO.
One thing that noone involved with the bailout is talking about is flat to lower wages for an outstanding majority of the US citizenry. How does buying these assets at above value help the typical person afford them? It doesn't. It just helps the corporations recatipalize long enough to buy up more and establishes a postmodern version of the landed gentry.
As I have been saying all along, this isn't over until a city burns.
Just called Corker's office...very nice staff.
Call...support the FULLY BAKED PROPOSAL.
Hedge funds are HUGE. Any fund that falls apart failed due to poor planning.
R2K
I'm curious, what possible reason could there be for Fannie and Freddie jumping 50%+ ?
Where's the value? Don't they know that Fannie and Freddie are going to be toxic waste dumping grounds?
I ask because I have some annoying friends who are gloating about how much they're making on this lame duck stock.
It's a TARP!