It truly is amazing to me that Ben and Hank, Congress, and government generally believe that we can legislate wealth into existence. That we can paper over our sins.
BB keeps trying to justify the expenditure by calling it an investment. A much better investment than sustaining this house of cards would be investment in infrastructure, including an energy grid that is friendlier to alternative energy solutions. Now I do believe in limited government but building infrastructure is within their scope in my book.
If the real worry is commercial and consumer credit collapse, the US government's new giant consumer and credit finance center, AIG, can simply increase its activities. No need to try to bribe wall street.
As a matter of policy, i think the US should not negotiate with financial terrorists. Send paulson and the ceos to guantanamo and beat the solution out of them
Have you seen the bigger piggies
In their starched white shirts
You will find the bigger piggies
You will find the bigger piggies
Stirring up the dirt
Always have clean shirts to play around in.
In their styes with all their backing
They don't care what goes on around
In their eyes there's something lacking
What they need's a damn good whacking. Beatles
My son was in the military, and no way would he or any of his cohorts be willing to fire on innocent american civilians. He's been out 5 years, but I'm sure that hasn't changed.
Just continues to show how out of touch they are.
If this is so awful, why isn't the mkt down a zillion?
Barney Frank was awesome. Excuse me while I pinch myself. Chair waived his right to opening remarks with the observation that the last thing the world needed was more posturing from him.
"how is it that Warren Buffett can cut a better deal with the best-run financial company in America than the U.S. Treasury can ask from the worst-run financial companies in America?"
Kanjorski, on the other hand, is like a zombie congressman...waiting for him to stop drooling out platitudes and take a bite out of the guy sitting next to him...
Total and complete political posturing going on right now - completely absurd.
This Bailout deal IS DONE AND THE INK IS DRY...as the alternative is Bush, Bernanke & Paulson's credibility, or what's left of it..goes to ZERO ALONG WITH THE ECONOMY AND STOCK MARKET. The Working Group will make sure of it...
So...when the deal gets announced, and the market euphoria dries up...then the it really gets frightening...as this serious recession, regardless of bailout, is taking hold and Roubini's prediction of a 40% fall from market peak becomes a reality.
History as our judge...markets always settle where markets need to settle....and we need to quit the rhetoric, and depleting our resources...and let it happen.
How come no one is asking what the President's Working Group has been doing all this time? Why since we have this secretive group in existence do we go from one crisis to the next.
The problem with Rep. Pryce's request to hear a full, convincing argument is that they can't do it. If things really are so bad as to require these measures, then to speak honestly about them would create a panic.
The goal in all of this is not really to recapitalize the banks, it is to restore confidence in the system. I am not sure we can get there from here without going through a massive cleansing...
Keep sending the emails to Reps and Senators! It's working! (Barbara Boxer's voicemail is full as I can confirm.)
America cannot afford more bailouts, especially of this magnitude! We're done, finished, terminado, with the bailouts. The only reason they're asking for this Wall Street bailout is because the taxpayer rolled over so quickly on allowing bailouts for Bear Stearns, AIG, and Fannie and Freddy.
Taxpayer: Don't roll over any more for the rich special interests! Quit piling up the debt to enrich those who are already extraordinarily wealthy!
Exactly Secretary Nemo, the plan is simply to reinflate the bubble with more credit. How anyone can think lending more money and printing more fiat money can correct a problem created by too much lending and too much fiat money is beyond me. It's like throwing gasoline on a fire because it's wet.
Lawyerliz writes:
My son was in the military, and no way would he or any of his cohorts be willing to fire on innocent american civilians. He's been out 5 years, but I'm sure that hasn't changed.
Liz I hope you are right. One of the history lessons very very few ever hear is the marches on D.C. over WW-I veterans entitlements. We nearly devolved into a socialist version of the French Revolution.
Just continues to show how out of touch they are.
It isn't so much their fault as individuals as it is a systemic flaw in a federated republic that is allowed to accrue power.
Even Hamilton would blanche at the beast he nurtured. Jefferson, while shocked would also ay he told us so and remind us of his "tree of liberty."
The upside is that we won't be subject to any domestic terrorism for a long time. Our enemies are at least smart enough to understand you do not interfere when your opponent is self-destructing.
I may buy PUTs but SKF is an equity swap with an unknown entity. If the other side of the trade is a hedge fund or bank that goes under, your SKF will go down with XLF.
SKF may be in these times an insurance policy that can't be redeemed.
It's fascism time, and all the boys are making Eye-rack democratic. Grandpa was stupid to use the US mil to stage a coup. Never make that mistake. No, sir...
With enough violence and crime, Blackwater will be greeted with flowers in Los Angeles and elsewhere.
BrianTX@SD writes:
You know if these assets are going to make money, why is wall st so anxious to DUMP IT???
Let's hope somebody asks that. So far Ron Paul came the closest when he said that the reasons assets are illiquid is because they aren't worth anything
If the gov't "experts" think this will break even, then just let the companies hold onto these assets and "break even" on their own....bunch of liars. I can't stand listening to this BS.
Comrade Baron Von Helmut III writes:
HAHAHAHAHA...' the 700 billion ....it's an asset purchase program" " the goverment will BREAK EVEN ON THIS program"
Comrade Baron Von Helmut III | 09.24.08 - 2:55 pm | #
I think he actually said "break it off IN EVE" but I could be wrong.
B^(&s*^t. Pay as you go. If you want your Hanky plan, submit it as a bill, see if you can get the proper appropriations through revenue cuts or increase in the overall federal budget. Stop the fear tactics
Well, my wife muttered something about "alienation of affection". She said it was legal term. Gary, Lawyerliz, you know anything about that?
sdtfs | 09.24.08 - 2:49 pm | #
LOL! I won't touch family law with a 10' pole but since this is a tongue in cheek question, be first to file a restraining order and hide whatever assets you can.
Well, my wife muttered something about "alienation of affection". She said it was legal term. Gary, Lawyerliz, you know anything about that?
sdtfs | 09.24.08 - 2:49 pm | #
LOL! I won't touch family law with a 10' pole but since this is a tongue in cheek question, be first to file a restraining order and hide whatever assets you can.
Gary | 09.24.08 - 2:57 pm | #
That's one way to go. I was going to suggest flowers and a bottle of wine.
He argues that the USA economy requires/demands credit.
Lets think about this!
What is wrong with not paying for sh@t when we do not have the cash!
What is wrong with internal financing of businesses or personal expenses?
We need to go back to basics, that which prior generations have done to provide the wealth that we are expending over the last 20 years by selling off our businesses/shipping the jobs overseas/importing cheap foreign illegal labor!
Cancel NAFTA, CAFTA, and etc. We can not support the wages/income of the rest of the world!
I know very little about economics, however I do know one thing, this is a zero sum game.
Americans took on too much debt.
We need to issue more debt to correct this problem.
This is not contradictory because the intent is to use this new debt to unwind the old bad debt.
Intents come with unintended consequences.
Cardiovascular Version:
We need to stent the patient at great expense so they can continue to eat, even eat more red meat and fat and junk.
Anyone else read rumors (via CNBC.com) that the ban on shorting fiancial equities may be extended to the broad market? Are they that dumb? Have they seen what financials have done since the ban?
Anyone else read rumors (via CNBC.com) that the ban on shorting fiancial equities may be extended to the broad market? Are they that dumb? Have they seen what financials have done since the ban?
... and they may find that it has a different effect this time.
Isnt it ironic that we fought a Cold War against the USSR & PRC for 50 years at an enormous cost, only to find they are Capitalists and we are the Socialist/Fascists?
Republican presidential candidate John McCain is reportedly suspending his campaign to return to Washington, D.C. for bailout talks, according to FOX News and NBC News.
FOX News reports McCain is asking for Friday's presidential debate in Oxford, Mississippi to be postponed to help focus on the domestic front and is asking Obama to suspend his campaign as well
I think it is hilarious when a guy who made half a billion or more as CEO says he understands that taxpayers are angry about Exec. compensation and should be.
This is amazing.. What's this about tax relief about Preferred shares.. This reminds me of those meetings after a system failure at and IT, business, consultants all got together to "solve it" ! System strategy got set on the hoof !
BTW, I'm in coastal south OC, not far from where, it's rumored, CR takes nature walks. If the world ends, where can I find you for some 'refreshment'? Crystal Cove sounds pretty nice.
Yippee, Johnny Mac is cancelling his campaign to save us all...He's bringing Phil Gramm and Sarah...Relax, everything will be just fine now...it'll hurt a little at first though...
I can help Paulson out. It is very unlikely the taxpayers will "make money". In fact, the way this is structured, they can churn away the entire $700 billion.
Paulson:" this is not an expense. this is purchasing assets. The taxpayer is already on the hook...if we do this properly, the taxpayer costs will be minimal. "
This would be a very smart play by McCain. Change the dynamics of the 'race.' That way when they install him via rigged voting, it will be accepted by the people.
Well, sheeeit...I didn't like him, but I guess most did. Wanna go to Sizzler?
McCain is setting up a postponement of the elections by 'suspending' his campaign. Bush will issue an exec. order that the election and Jan. 20th 2009 is also suspended.
why do these washington and govt schmucks thank everyone else for meaningless crap? thank you for showing up, thank you for the questions, thank you for working last night, etc, etc. it's so disingenuous and so transparent. when people are doing that, they are usually trying to bullsh!t you, so they need to sound super-nice and polite so you think to yourself "hey, this person is nice and wouldn't lie to me". That dog don't hunt.
This is a double play. They get the bill passed, and McCain comes in to claim that he got all the big concessions in place with his brute strength of will, and then he takes the election.
Forked. We are just totally forked. The only consolation is that the Republicans greed machine takes full responsibility for the upcoming Depression.
Look, either it's a crisis or not. Either they need a bailout or not. Sounds like if they do nothing, the business cycle will take care of itself and once housing recovers, those loans will be profitable. All according to Pauslon.
EUREKA, I got it. Going back to solutions of the Reagan adminstration... What if the govt buys the debt from the banks, paying above market prices... here's the kicker... but we pay the banks in surplus cheese held by the agricultural department!
Although the politeness is certainly annoying, and the British system of open derision is superior, we have had 220 years with very few violent outbursts in the chambers, which is pretty rare.
Mp, with respect, I've been following this for 3 years now. But its only recently that we've heard OMFG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE IF WE DON'T HAND $700B TO WALL ST.
You don't think some opportunistic scaremongering is going on? How much would a Lehman bailout cost vs this mess?
"So, Paulson and Bernanke are now claiming that the taxpayer will MAKE money from this $700B bailout?"
They are desparate. But it is a meme that has legs....I have heard that repeated a few times by people who are largely ignorant regarding these matters. It is a simple soundbite that the average joe can cling to.
IMO risky play by McCain. But he's known to take risks, right?
But if he sounds even remotely stupid, this blows up in his face. 'Saving main street' only works if he's not caught with his advisor's hand in the cookie jar, like what happened yesterday.
Ball now in Obama's court. Agree to 'follow' Mc's lead?
Im standing up pounding on the keyboard going from site to site and I sent an email to my Senator to suggest she is clueless and I will not vote for her in the future! I remain on standby to pillfer the dead. Bring me as many as you can!
I love how the British talk in Parliament, i've watched it on TV what i've seen is intelligent and witty while still cutting like a knife. I once heard a MP call another honorable opponent's plan an "infalted pig's bladder on a stick". now THAT is good stuff.
WTF is McCain going to do? He knows less than shit about the economy and now suddenly he's going to rush in and save the day? Maybe he'll bring Phil with him and just give one great big apology for all they've fucked up...I can't believe anyone in their right mind would fall for this pandering, drooling old fool...
Since it seems obvious that republicans will not vote for the giveaway, I think the best McCain could do is stand back and continue to be the outsider... that is what got him where he is.
Any attempt now to come of as a 'great leader' is more likely to simply reveal him as an old grouch. His political instincts are not sure enough for him to be at the center of something fast-moving
I think I just got banned on Mish's blog. I was blocked on the Roubini blog I'm pretty sure for bringing up derivatives risk studies at the universities and for mentioning the false info that started the War in Iraq.
With Mish, I was bringing up the possibility that a lot of this Econ blog outrage is from the banning of shorting financials along with the taxpayer rip-off issue in the bailout.
I'm just saying that now it can be seen what's it's like to scream at the Machine in futility the way many activists have done in calling for government and central banking accountability for the last seven years of this governmant takeover of this nation.
I cannot think of any business that would only make a Plan A, with not contingencies. In my experience, when given the choice of either being forced into a decision or nothing, nothing is the better choice.
How can Bernanke claim instruments are currently improperly valued when many of these assets are going to default in the next few years? He assumes all these securities will exist and won't be worthless. Is this guy for real?
"You don't think some opportunistic scaremongering is going on?"
Sure, there's scaremongering. That's what politics is all about.
However, it's obvious from their statements and chit-chat that they REALLY DIDN'T understand the scope and depth of the problem. They've been caught flat-footed.
Meanwhile, Conjure and I are off to the big city to top off the liquor and cigar supplies, as well as our load list.
Good luck, guys and gals. You're going to need it.
Testify, sister!
Let me paraphrase:
The world will end unless we print money.
It truly is amazing to me that Ben and Hank, Congress, and government generally believe that we can legislate wealth into existence. That we can paper over our sins.
did anyone else see Bill Gross' math on CNBC? If that many loans are at 0.65 then the banks are capital impaired and should be nationalized.
When is the market going to collapse?
Let it begin....
Let it end already.
Cramdowns, cramdowns, cramdowns.
And cram the exec pay down---how looow can it goooo.
This is bad:
http://www.metafilter.com/75116/Active-Army-unit-to-be-stationed-within-US
Very bad.
The presidential candidates should be taking a position on this soon--if they remain vague, even a good bill will not pass.
This is better than watching the Super Bowl at that really amoral sorority house.
Hummm, i'm thinkin,,if they want the best,,,you can bet,,they are gonna pay through the nose to get it..
Was Ben just praying? I wonder to what god...
Now go easy on these guys. They've had a rough couple of days.
Mammo
Just got back from the bank for some tin can $...
What happens if WAMU fails? Does the FDIC have enough reserves?
BB keeps trying to justify the expenditure by calling it an investment. A much better investment than sustaining this house of cards would be investment in infrastructure, including an energy grid that is friendlier to alternative energy solutions. Now I do believe in limited government but building infrastructure is within their scope in my book.
I bet GW is on a mountain bike ride right now or watching Charlie's Angels reruns.
Ben wasn't praying, he was just checking to see if the valium has kicked in.
s_puttnick writes:
This is better than watching the Super Bowl at that really amoral sorority house.
You'll think differently after you take your Viagra.
"Was Ben just praying? I wonder to what god..."
Ben prays to Yahweh.
Hank prays to Mammon.
WAITING FOR RON PAUL!!!!!!!
He's the only honest dude in that gang of criminals
Congressman Barney Fudd.
"This is bad:
Very bad."
Caesar has merely brought the legion with him for protection. The whole deal with the Rubicon was always just a quaint traditional notion anyway.
If the real worry is commercial and consumer credit collapse, the US government's new giant consumer and credit finance center, AIG, can simply increase its activities. No need to try to bribe wall street.
Active Army unit to be stationed within US | MetaFilter US
Very bad.
Anonymous | 09.24.08 - 2:36 pm | #
frankly I wouud rather have the US Army than Blackwater
As a matter of policy, i think the US should not negotiate with financial terrorists. Send paulson and the ceos to guantanamo and beat the solution out of them
Have you seen the bigger piggies
In their starched white shirts
You will find the bigger piggies
You will find the bigger piggies
Stirring up the dirt
Always have clean shirts to play around in.
In their styes with all their backing
They don't care what goes on around
In their eyes there's something lacking
What they need's a damn good whacking.
Beatles
"We've all heard why Paulson is wrong. What we need to hear is why Paulson is right."
Sen. Pryce says the people are not convinced.
Good start.
Mel,
Touch.
err...
Touche.
CNBC stream seems to be a lot more stable if anyone is having issues.
"bernancke's written house testimoney (misspelled on purpose) identical to yesterday's"
Stay on message......
Ciao
MS
My son was in the military, and no way would he or any of his cohorts be willing to fire on innocent american civilians. He's been out 5 years, but I'm sure that hasn't changed.
Just continues to show how out of touch they are.
If this is so awful, why isn't the mkt down a zillion?
666 visitors keeps popping up. Coincidence? I think not...
geez 666 visitors again...
oh my...there really ARE 666 visitors...
looks good to me. I've got CR blog and CNBC streaming. I'm in heaven. I have not been able to get any work done this week because of this
Barney Frank was awesome. Excuse me while I pinch myself. Chair waived his right to opening remarks with the observation that the last thing the world needed was more posturing from him.
2nd day of woot off is more fun than congressional charade.
Ambac CEO: "We need a moratorium on rating actions until this is all over."
ROTFLMAO
who is Cong Pryce? Nice going.
Paulson has zero support from US people.
Tell us why Hank?
That means a lot of people dont have anything to do....
666 is my number!
Paulson looks like a deer in the headlights
Great quote from Jeff Matthews:
"how is it that Warren Buffett can cut a better deal with the best-run financial company in America than the U.S. Treasury can ask from the worst-run financial companies in America?"
Make Bush stand naked, but Paulson first.
Kanjorski, on the other hand, is like a zombie congressman...waiting for him to stop drooling out platitudes and take a bite out of the guy sitting next to him...
665 Visitors Online
the devil left the house
Paulson is a huge pile of steaming crap.
He is a traitor and several other things I'd like to type.....but won't as this is a family blog
Ciao
MS
A wall street party that we did not get to attend. I want my Jacuzzi Boat!
bloomberg is also running the video.
Bloomberg Television Live
Total and complete political posturing going on right now - completely absurd.
This Bailout deal IS DONE AND THE INK IS DRY...as the alternative is Bush, Bernanke & Paulson's credibility, or what's left of it..goes to ZERO ALONG WITH THE ECONOMY AND STOCK MARKET. The Working Group will make sure of it...
So...when the deal gets announced, and the market euphoria dries up...then the it really gets frightening...as this serious recession, regardless of bailout, is taking hold and Roubini's prediction of a 40% fall from market peak becomes a reality.
History as our judge...markets always settle where markets need to settle....and we need to quit the rhetoric, and depleting our resources...and let it happen.
Buckle up.
Seriously, the MSM is orgasmic on this CEO pay stuff. This is nuts. More socialism.
How come no one is asking what the President's Working Group has been doing all this time? Why since we have this secretive group in existence do we go from one crisis to the next.
DEMAND ALL THE DOCUMENTS FROM THESE MEETINGS!
O.K.,,,who's skipping their chores in order to stay up to date on blog direction?
Permanent in-house watchdog and Congressional monitor...
I'm going long on public sector.
Ha Mel, he had to go testify.
It should scare the crap out of Bush/Paulson when the Republican subcommitee chair (Jankorski) talks about fat cats etc on wall street.
He just said no deal - yet.
who is the asshat talking now?
Who's gonna by SKF on Oct 1st ?
I'm negotiating a sale today...this has been a GREAT way to kill the time waiting for the call backs!
"I'm going long on public sector"
And I'm shorting municipal bonds....while it's still legal.
Ciao
MS
Wow. Day 2 of no bailout and the market didn't implode.
Whooda thunk it.
Rep. Bacchus just absolved both Paulson and Bernake from any responsibility.
Somebody hand him a handkerchief, he's got something on his chin.
IF this bill passes, McCain may win the election.
Think about this.
The problem with Rep. Pryce's request to hear a full, convincing argument is that they can't do it. If things really are so bad as to require these measures, then to speak honestly about them would create a panic.
The goal in all of this is not really to recapitalize the banks, it is to restore confidence in the system. I am not sure we can get there from here without going through a massive cleansing...
[Interesting Times writes:
Who's gonna by SKF on Oct 1st ?]
Ban on shorting will be indefinite.
"Paulson arrived in this position long after the problems that lead us here today arose"
Um, yeah, he was ON WALL STREET MAKING THEM!
"Buckle up."
I've been buckled up since January 06 and there isn't anyway none of the Assholes saw this coming.
Ambac CEO: "We need a moratorium on rating actions until this is all over."
Awww, that's so cute!
Keep sending the emails to Reps and Senators! It's working! (Barbara Boxer's voicemail is full as I can confirm.)
America cannot afford more bailouts, especially of this magnitude! We're done, finished, terminado, with the bailouts. The only reason they're asking for this Wall Street bailout is because the taxpayer rolled over so quickly on allowing bailouts for Bear Stearns, AIG, and Fannie and Freddy.
Taxpayer: Don't roll over any more for the rich special interests! Quit piling up the debt to enrich those who are already extraordinarily wealthy!
"If the American people only knew..."
So tell us, damn it.
welcome to the aegean stables....
start shovelling
Exactly Secretary Nemo, the plan is simply to reinflate the bubble with more credit. How anyone can think lending more money and printing more fiat money can correct a problem created by too much lending and too much fiat money is beyond me. It's like throwing gasoline on a fire because it's wet.
I've been buckled up since January 06 and there isn't anyway none of the Assholes saw this coming.
Anonymous | 09.24.08 - 2:47 pm
Fuckin aye, dude. I didn't know the voice in my head posted here.
O.K.,,,who's skipping their chores in order to stay up to date on blog direction?
Well, my wife muttered something about "alienation of affection". She said it was legal term. Gary, Lawyerliz, you know anything about that?
Enough gas will eventually put out a fire.
It's the classic, "Does the cow still exist if no one is left to see it" method of extinguishing.
Also known as extinction in some circles.
Lawyerliz writes:
My son was in the military, and no way would he or any of his cohorts be willing to fire on innocent american civilians. He's been out 5 years, but I'm sure that hasn't changed.
Liz I hope you are right. One of the history lessons very very few ever hear is the marches on D.C. over WW-I veterans entitlements. We nearly devolved into a socialist version of the French Revolution.
Just continues to show how out of touch they are.
It isn't so much their fault as individuals as it is a systemic flaw in a federated republic that is allowed to accrue power.
Even Hamilton would blanche at the beast he nurtured. Jefferson, while shocked would also ay he told us so and remind us of his "tree of liberty."
Oh come on anonymous, nobody could have known...oh wait, that schtick has been used already too many times. Are people still buying it?
They are preparing.
Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com
.
The bailout plan is indeed a bailout of banks and investors.
Millions of underwater homeowners will not see pay raises and will not be able to keep their homes. Period. Massive defaults will occur.
Let investors take their losses. The government should do nothing. NO BAILOUT. NONE.
If I'm going to hear once again that the root cause is a housing decline... ooofffff
frankly I wouud rather have the US Army than Blackwater
Escariot | 09.24.08 - 2:38 pm | #
You mean like this?
Blackwater opens San Diego training center - Security- msnbc.com
How the f... is Paulson going to say he is addressing the underlying problem of the housing correction?
I think this means cramdowns are getting cramdowned his throat. As they should be.
Paulson: give us money to restore confidence.... yada yada yada.. we know best...
Paulson sounds like he's been beat up pretty good.
Good.
666 Visitors Online
just caved on executive compensation for all to hear . . . and rightfully so
wait . . . share in benefits
"This entire proposal is about benefiting the American people"
lol
I smell Rove in this... They're doing the classic co-opting of the oppositions language: "need oversight, protect taxpayer, ..."
haha Paulson just said something about person savings...
who is kidding?
Paulson is a debt pimp.
The upside is that we won't be subject to any domestic terrorism for a long time. Our enemies are at least smart enough to understand you do not interfere when your opponent is self-destructing.
"This entire proposal is about benefiting the American people"
Liar
They don't have savings Hank they are in hock to you and your debt pushers.
i don't knwo about the credit markets seizing up, but CNBC sure seems to be seizing
LOL indeed....what a bunch of dummies we Americans are if we fall for this.
It's an asset-purchase program. Not a spending program. Glad he cleared that up.
I can't watch this liar any more.
(202) 224-3121
Keep calling, no bailout.
You know if these assets are going to make money, why is wall st so anxious to DUMP IT???
LOL indeed....what a bunch of dummies we Americans are if we fall for this.
It doesn't matter if we fall for it or not. It's coming.
if the plan is as great that the govermnet will make profit - as paulson claims - why buffet and pimco and other investors financed it ?
HAHAHAHAHA...' the 700 billion ....it's an asset purchase program" " the goverment will BREAK EVEN ON THIS program"
Paulson just caved to any provision that has broad support. . . he is waving a white flag
time to pile on before he is fired
QUOTED FOR TRUTH
Extraordinary measure.. but these are extraordinary times...
MORE shock..and awe!
lies
lies
Lies
Lies
LIES
LIES
LIES
I may buy PUTs but SKF is an equity swap with an unknown entity. If the other side of the trade is a hedge fund or bank that goes under, your SKF will go down with XLF.
SKF may be in these times an insurance policy that can't be redeemed.
Exit: I think more like this
YouTube - Blackwater in New Orleans
Blackwater mercenaries used in New Orleans - Wikinews, the free news source
It's fascism time, and all the boys are making Eye-rack democratic. Grandpa was stupid to use the US mil to stage a coup. Never make that mistake. No, sir...
With enough violence and crime, Blackwater will be greeted with flowers in Los Angeles and elsewhere.
"You know if these assets are going to make money, why is wall st so anxious to DUMP IT???"
Quick somebody grab that guy and get him to a re-education camp.
BrianTX@SD writes:
You know if these assets are going to make money, why is wall st so anxious to DUMP IT???
Let's hope somebody asks that. So far Ron Paul came the closest when he said that the reasons assets are illiquid is because they aren't worth anything
TAPP
Troubled Asset Purchase Program
Yeah, tap my pocket to increase people's debt. NO thank you.
doesn't make sense that the taxpayer has all the risk and at the very best can break even.
it should provide a lot of upside by taking equity ownership of banks helped.
Heist of the century live on television
LIAR
If the gov't "experts" think this will break even, then just let the companies hold onto these assets and "break even" on their own....bunch of liars. I can't stand listening to this BS.
"The Gold Standard Stricks Back" by Antal E. Fekete. FSO Editorial 09/24/2008
No fracking bailout! Period!
The economy will be fine. We don't need the Wall Street bozos any more than a goldfish needs the string of shit hanging from his ass.
Again: No fracking bailout!
Comrade Baron Von Helmut III writes:
HAHAHAHAHA...' the 700 billion ....it's an asset purchase program" " the goverment will BREAK EVEN ON THIS program"
Comrade Baron Von Helmut III | 09.24.08 - 2:55 pm | #
I think he actually said "break it off IN EVE" but I could be wrong.
WHy not just gather up 140 more Warrent Buffets? Viola, problem solved.
Is Ron Paul testifying today?
B^(&s*^t. Pay as you go. If you want your Hanky plan, submit it as a bill, see if you can get the proper appropriations through revenue cuts or increase in the overall federal budget. Stop the fear tactics
he did already.
Well, my wife muttered something about "alienation of affection". She said it was legal term. Gary, Lawyerliz, you know anything about that?
sdtfs | 09.24.08 - 2:49 pm | #
LOL! I won't touch family law with a 10' pole but since this is a tongue in cheek question, be first to file a restraining order and hide whatever assets you can.
why should taxpayers bear the risk of home prices going down?
Bernanke said ...ELEVATED INFLATION..
Wait a minute...didn't he say earlier that inflation will moderate?
WALL ST. is getting desperate.
Well, my wife muttered something about "alienation of affection". She said it was legal term. Gary, Lawyerliz, you know anything about that?
sdtfs | 09.24.08 - 2:49 pm | #
LOL! I won't touch family law with a 10' pole but since this is a tongue in cheek question, be first to file a restraining order and hide whatever assets you can.
Gary | 09.24.08 - 2:57 pm | #
That's one way to go. I was going to suggest flowers and a bottle of wine.
Pualson: "let's work together to get this done."
OK! FIRST. you give back that 500 million and we'll talk........
Apparently they wouldn't let Sign Guy in today. lol
Can't believe I have to work during this...
Elvis writes:
I bet GW is on a mountain bike ride right now or watching Charlie's Angels reruns.
No...he's learning how to pronounce all the difficult words in his speech.
yikes-
That is the next step of the coup that started two weeks ago.
Kiss off any elections as we now have two very LARGE issues (market/Iran) that will be used as the national "emergency".
The bigger question is will troops enforce the order's?? We are asking for the next civil war fought through social classes.
Ciao
MS
Can you believe Paulson,
He argues that the USA economy requires/demands credit.
Lets think about this!
What is wrong with not paying for sh@t when we do not have the cash!
What is wrong with internal financing of businesses or personal expenses?
We need to go back to basics, that which prior generations have done to provide the wealth that we are expending over the last 20 years by selling off our businesses/shipping the jobs overseas/importing cheap foreign illegal labor!
Cancel NAFTA, CAFTA, and etc. We can not support the wages/income of the rest of the world!
I know very little about economics, however I do know one thing, this is a zero sum game.
Everything else is b^llsh*t!!!
what about giving taxpayers ownership of RE owned by CEO's bailout? i'm willing to bear the risk of that property going down in value.
could i drop by dimon's for a barbecue unannounced?
CSC -
Shudder.
When's that crazy dwarf gonna do Palin, BTW? I could use another one of those 'now for something completely different' moments.
Breaking news: Mccain wants to delay the public debate planned for tomorrow....
TAPP?
As in Taxpayer Anal Penetration Program?
Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 - Army News, news from Iraq, - Army Times
These are all the same people that claim the free markets determine prices. The question is are we in a free market economy or NOT?
Cliff Notes Version:
Americans took on too much debt.
We need to issue more debt to correct this problem.
This is not contradictory because the intent is to use this new debt to unwind the old bad debt.
Intents come with unintended consequences.
Cardiovascular Version:
We need to stent the patient at great expense so they can continue to eat, even eat more red meat and fat and junk.
do you think Ben and Barney are having a fling?
BB is touting the AIG deal with 80% equity stake . . . so why no equity stake in the Hanky Panky proposal????
I read this as admission of defeat.
Paulson plan is dead.
This is a hearing on the frank/Dodd bill
Anyone else read rumors (via CNBC.com) that the ban on shorting fiancial equities may be extended to the broad market? Are they that dumb? Have they seen what financials have done since the ban?
Ness has the better advice.
My actual experience is that when my wife gets fed up, off goes the blackberry.
As in Taxpayer Anal Penetration Program?
General Secretary Nemo
Without laxative.
No...he's learning how to pronounce all the difficult words in his speech.
tbapple | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 2:59 pm | #
Like... um, "no EXaturdishin from Paraguay"?
The notion that business can't access the credit and money markets is a lie. They just will have to pay market rates is all.
They just mean they can't access these markets at the artificially low rates that they have become accustomed to.
And another 700 Billion is not going to change that.
market health (i.e. the portfolio's of the congress and there ilk) will become the new "invasion of Iran".
Wanna bet the Israelis do it soon?
Bye bye elections.
Ciao
MS
Are they that dumb?
You need to ask?
What are the odds that the B word comes out of a Congressman today?
A link please for the story about McCain asking to postone the debate? if true, he might as well forefeit the election now.
Leadership we can count on?
When are we going to see Hank and Benny swap spit?
A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining, but wants it back the minute it begins to rain.
~ Mark Twai
"Are they that dumb?"
Yes.
Cheaper to keep her
"Ness has the better advice.
My actual experience is that when my wife gets fed up, off goes the blackberry."
Did Paulson have a stent treatment lately? Why does he think pushing the "gunk" out of the system will make it 'live' longer?
If this bill isn't passed.
I fear another WAR may start.
Pakistan? Bolivia? Venezuela? Caucasus? North Korea?
News from these regions have been more prominent of late.
Mr T, great point!
How can BB even say "purchasing impaired assets" with a straight face.
This is just surreal, more and more so every day
I with the A-team were here to help us taxpayers...
Anyone else read rumors (via CNBC.com) that the ban on shorting fiancial equities may be extended to the broad market? Are they that dumb? Have they seen what financials have done since the ban?
... and they may find that it has a different effect this time.
"Sir, that's nu-cle-ar. Nuclear."
"New-ku-ler."
"Not quite. Let's try it again. Nuuu-kleeee-urrrr."
"New-kuuu-lerrr."
"Nu-cle-ar."
"New-ku-ler."
"(sigh) Good, sir. That's fine. Now let's try li-qui-di-ty."
"Heh, heh. Hold up a sec, son. Let me wet my whistle. This is thirsty work."
We want Conjure! We want Conjure!
H*ll, even if the govt can unfreeze the credit markets, who can afford to accept credit on their individual balance sheets.
Listen, govt officials, we our over indebted and can not accept any further debt.
BB and Hank are part of the AAA-team, they are just a scam
Economic growth = inflation, OK
Exit: I can only scan so much of the dwarf. I'm afraid she'll pop into my head during the real deal and I'll 'lose it.
Okay wine and flowers it is,...I'll put a stop on that asset transfer into WaMu stock.
Does Frank have teeth?
My grandmother once told me, " Happy wife, happy life."
just sayi
"Liars, and the Lying Lies They Are Telling You"
Liars, and the Lying Lies They Are Telling You « Your Mortgage or Your Life…
"Privatizing Profits and Socializing Losses: How the Rich are Staying Rich"
Privatizing Profits and Socializing Losses: How the Rich are Staying Rich « Your Mortgage or Your Life…
"Conspiracies and Headlines - Whats the Difference?"
Conspiracies and Headlines – What’s the Difference? « Your Mortgage or Your Life…
Taxpayer
Absolutely
Ripped-Off
Permanently
Isnt it ironic that we fought a Cold War against the USSR & PRC for 50 years at an enormous cost, only to find they are Capitalists and we are the Socialist/Fascists?
Comrade Ness, I spit my coffee all over, the dog thought I was seizing. LOL
Fixing a hole: Alice in Wonderland
YouTube - Fixing A Hole
Paulson just asked for tax breaks for holders of fannie and freddie preferred?!!!
This is not capitalism.
butter writes:
Does Frank have teeth?
Maybe. But he sure barks.
can somebody prove that Hank has equity in Goldman? didn't he sell already?
husband was asking yesterday...
Paulson just asked for tax breaks for holders of fannie and freddie preferred?!!!
These assholes make me long for the days of a communist witchhunt.
by tax break they mean recognition of the cap loss right away no?
OK $20 tip to CR: I say a Congressman mentions US and bankruptcy in the same 5 minutes.
Google news gave me this link to a Kentucky source citing Fox News
Error: Page Not Found - KYPost.com
Republican presidential candidate John McCain is reportedly suspending his campaign to return to Washington, D.C. for bailout talks, according to FOX News and NBC News.
FOX News reports McCain is asking for Friday's presidential debate in Oxford, Mississippi to be postponed to help focus on the domestic front and is asking Obama to suspend his campaign as well
I think it is hilarious when a guy who made half a billion or more as CEO says he understands that taxpayers are angry about Exec. compensation and should be.
More lies
This is amazing.. What's this about tax relief about Preferred shares.. This reminds me of those meetings after a system failure at and IT, business, consultants all got together to "solve it" ! System strategy got set on the hoof !
Dumb !
-K
@MrT:
Same non-problem with mortgages.
Price discovery = worthless.
congress.org writes:
can somebody prove that Hank has equity in Goldman? didn't he sell already?
husband was asking yesterday...
He had to sell earlier.. and made a lot of pesos.
what about retroactive pay of bail out?
you profit from the housing bubble and credit bubble? then pay for the bail out. hank will pay big time!
"through no fault of their own"... ha ha ha
System=Wall Street
Everyone will benefit (apart from sucker taxpayers)
ALL YUR RICKRIDZ ARE BELONZ TO US.
In 1979 Barron's printed the following joke: "How do you know the chairman of the Fed is lying? Easy, every time he moves his lips".
congress.org writes:
can somebody prove that Hank has equity in Goldman? didn't he sell already?
Didn't pay any capital gains either.
If the McCain story is true, it is a gamble more desperate than his pick of Palin....Wow.
The rumor must put McCain on the spot to make a public statement now.
Do I have to say it again? I do? OK:
Sorry. Page not found. -- it's call your representative day
Price discovery = worthless.
And Fire Sale = Market Price
OOOPS
Congress.org - Get informed, get involved
I am too angry to type
"Our banks are prepared to lend to the Bank of England overnight at 4%, but not to each other for three months at more than 6%.
"What on earth is going on? ..."
BBC - Peston's Picks
Interbank hysteria
* Robert Peston
* 24 Sep 08, 04:26 PM
The rumor must put McCain on the spot to make a public statement now.
joe shmoe | 09.24.08 - 3:09 pm | #
It's on the frontpage of the BBC new site...he's postponing campaign to return to DC
Oops. He thinks they're paying fire sale?
Atrios and Josh Marshall have it too:
TPM Election Central | Talking Points Memo | Breaking: McCain Campaign Suspends Campaign Due To Crisis, Calls On Delay For Debate
What a bull$hit stunt. McSame cuts a pathetic figure these days.
Joe Schmoe, look at CNN.com - it's on top.
If the McCain story is true, it is a gamble more desperate than his pick of Palin....Wow.
What do you mean, a gamble? The people are pissed as hell, and he's just getting to the head of the line so he can lead them.
It's brilliant.
McCain rumor supported by Breaking News banner on CNN.com.
That of course does not mean it is true.
Yikes.
A chat window would be awesome. Too many comments
Paulson speak translation guide:
"American people" = "Goldman Sachs"
"taxpayer" = "Goldman Sachs"
"the System" = "Goldman Sachs"
when he says he's "frustrated" about compensation he means he wish he'd made more while he could as his buddies are really raking it in now...
"not an expenditure in a traditional sense" - you got that right
CSC - ROTFLMAO.
BTW, I'm in coastal south OC, not far from where, it's rumored, CR takes nature walks. If the world ends, where can I find you for some 'refreshment'? Crystal Cove sounds pretty nice.
"the taxpayer is already on the hook, sorry to say"
not so!
Yippee, Johnny Mac is cancelling his campaign to save us all...He's bringing Phil Gramm and Sarah...Relax, everything will be just fine now...it'll hurt a little at first though...
It's obvious from listening to these guys that they were caught totally unaware. There's been no study, no staffing, no planning, nothing.
Sorry.
Conjure says, "GAME OVER! GRAVITY RULES!"
I see
Wow......
George Will was so right about McCain.
This is a unilateral preventive war on democracy.
Krugman on Paulson & Wall Street Bailout
YouTube - Krugman on Paulson & Wall Street Bailout
I have to wonder if Ben and Hanky let Lehman go down in order to trigger this thing.
The reasoning is to force the issue while they are still in power, rather than take a chance on the next administration.
If so, this is grand theft treason.
i figured it out Paulson only stutters when he is telling the truth when he is lying he is straight faced as Moneymaker.
ask Ben how the 29B in Maiden Lane is faring!
Write to your congressmen before is too late
NO EQUITY NO DEAL NO DEAL NO DEAL
McCain complained that Obama wouldn't do townhalls from him. Who looks like they are shitting in their pants now?
"The people are pissed as hell, and he's just getting to the head of the line so he can lead them."
Alternate explanation: The bill is in trouble, and he is coming back to shore up support.
I can help Paulson out. It is very unlikely the taxpayers will "make money". In fact, the way this is structured, they can churn away the entire $700 billion.
Best to all.
Paulson:" this is not an expense. this is purchasing assets. The taxpayer is already on the hook...if we do this properly, the taxpayer costs will be minimal. "
Criminal.
This would be a very smart play by McCain. Change the dynamics of the 'race.' That way when they install him via rigged voting, it will be accepted by the people.
Well, sheeeit...I didn't like him, but I guess most did. Wanna go to Sizzler?
"I have to wonder if Ben and Hanky let Lehman go down in order to trigger this thing."
This "thing" triggered over a year ago.
Where have you been?
McCain: Come together "...before the markets open on Monday...".
So that's it.
CR,
You are a genius. Testify brother.
Conjure is so right. He is the man . . . errrr, supernatural supreme being.
McCain is setting up a postponement of the elections by 'suspending' his campaign. Bush will issue an exec. order that the election and Jan. 20th 2009 is also suspended.
McCain campaign on hold. Erin to replace Sarah on the ballot.
why do these washington and govt schmucks thank everyone else for meaningless crap? thank you for showing up, thank you for the questions, thank you for working last night, etc, etc. it's so disingenuous and so transparent. when people are doing that, they are usually trying to bullsh!t you, so they need to sound super-nice and polite so you think to yourself "hey, this person is nice and wouldn't lie to me". That dog don't hunt.
"In fact, the way this is structured, they can churn away the entire $700 billion."
CR;)
Like sharks when they smell blood.
So, Paulson and Bernanke are now claiming that the taxpayer will MAKE money from this $700B bailout?
Yeah, whatever, and there are nuclear weapons in Iraq.
CR - Text him:
(202) 622-2000
Ok, who has feathers, tar, ropes? My back hurts, but Ill do what I can!
That's 'NUKULAR' thankyouverymuch
This is a double play. They get the bill passed, and McCain comes in to claim that he got all the big concessions in place with his brute strength of will, and then he takes the election.
Forked. We are just totally forked. The only consolation is that the Republicans greed machine takes full responsibility for the upcoming Depression.
Pauson and Bernake have been in meetings with financial CEOs for the last 12 months.
They either
1) Knew about this issue and lied in every interview and congressional meeting and deserve jailtime.
2) Were lied to by all the financial CEOs, who now deserve jailtime.
3) No one knew a thing, which means they have no right in proposing a solution and should immediately resign.
Problems like this do not just POP UP out of nowhere.
Either neglegence or malice or both was involved.
2006 article on Paulson's GS stock: Henry Paulson's conflict of interest. - By Daniel Gross - Slate Magazine
Jesus...Mccain now wants to postpone the debate to address the crisis
what about charging wall street employees the $700 Bl?
it could be easily implemented, just a new line on the 1040.
Re: nuclear weapons in Iraq.
Do you have a link for that..ROTFLMAO
My back hurts but I'll do what I can.. LOL I love that. You can make bullets and pillfer the dead.
Look, either it's a crisis or not. Either they need a bailout or not. Sounds like if they do nothing, the business cycle will take care of itself and once housing recovers, those loans will be profitable. All according to Pauslon.
So why the hurry?
EUREKA, I got it. Going back to solutions of the Reagan adminstration... What if the govt buys the debt from the banks, paying above market prices... here's the kicker... but we pay the banks in surplus cheese held by the agricultural department!
Mccain now wants to postpone the debate to address the crisis
I'd prefer that he postpones the crisis in order to address the debate.
Jesus...Mccain now wants to postpone the debate to address the crisis
That's hilarious. Even for a craven politician, it's grandstanding.
Although the politeness is certainly annoying, and the British system of open derision is superior, we have had 220 years with very few violent outbursts in the chambers, which is pretty rare.
Thanks sc. So did he sell his stake? or he still has it?
Finish the question Paul...you had a good one brewing!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude we are going to be doing so much camping over the next ten years.
Good question: What do you mean by "far less than the alternative?"
Waiting for the answer ...
Mp: This "thing" triggered over a year ago.
Mp, with respect, I've been following this for 3 years now. But its only recently that we've heard OMFG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE IF WE DON'T HAND $700B TO WALL ST.
You don't think some opportunistic scaremongering is going on? How much would a Lehman bailout cost vs this mess?
McCain and Obama to play nice and not take a position on anything.
Vice President Palin.
Say it three times.
And get used to it folks.
Me, Im looking at some land in Chile.
"So, Paulson and Bernanke are now claiming that the taxpayer will MAKE money from this $700B bailout?"
They are desparate. But it is a meme that has legs....I have heard that repeated a few times by people who are largely ignorant regarding these matters. It is a simple soundbite that the average joe can cling to.
Man I hate these guys.
yeah... but this is kinda puffball
What chance is there that the Treasury will buy $700bn of "assets" and then re-sell it with a government-backed guarantee?
Rinse, repeat...
McCain is toast. the elections will happen.
Frank/Dodd will pass a bill with all the provisions they have prescribed, plus the Schumer phase in.
The markets be volatile, then sink. Recession for a couple of years, then flat GDP if we are lucky.
If we are lucky, Obama becomes the reincarnation of FDR and the US recovers after 15-20 years just like after the Great Depression.
If not, kiss this sub-prime shitpile goodbye.
Comrade Bagholders,
Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.
Nostrovia,
If I have to buy the pony, at least let me hear the sales pitch.
....and he's probably going to lower the price of a can of Schooner Tuna!
P getting spanked - "You should have told us!"
IMO risky play by McCain. But he's known to take risks, right?
But if he sounds even remotely stupid, this blows up in his face. 'Saving main street' only works if he's not caught with his advisor's hand in the cookie jar, like what happened yesterday.
Ball now in Obama's court. Agree to 'follow' Mc's lead?
Politics: the greatest American spectator sport.
But they won't get LOANS!!!!
They neeeed credit!!! ARGGGHHH
Comrade Mike,
Im standing up pounding on the keyboard going from site to site and I sent an email to my Senator to suggest she is clueless and I will not vote for her in the future! I remain on standby to pillfer the dead. Bring me as many as you can!
what is the name of the idiot that said something like "million, Billion , Trillion" - what is the difference as long as the sun came out....
WTF?!?! Oh, we have no alternative other than ripping off the taxpayers.
Looks like Satanson put on his blue collar watch.
The Doc Holiday Plan is the best I've seen!
keep up the transcript please!
@ Mr. T:
Completely agree.
I remember getting pissed when I first heard couples walking around OC malls saying things like, "And they just kept lending more and more money!"
That was about, oh, May of this year. Somewhat. Behind.
Fortune article say he sold it. Beware, photos of a shirtless Paulson on a beach. Hank Paulson faces the greatest financial crisis of our time - Sep. 19, 2008
"When Paulson sold his $500 million of Goldman Sachs stock, he saved tens of millions of dollars."
they are calling Bullshit on Paulson. Bullshit.
Vote of no confidence!
hell, they should do it, pass a resolution of no confidence. make him step down.
DEMAND EQUITY IN THE BANKS!!!!!!!!!
i'm preaching to the choir, i know, ... i just cannot believe htey can pass this law without wiping out shareholders.
Paulson chooses to answer question about money markets instead of describing what would happen if the plan ins't passed.
OMG, treaury officials had to stay up all night ....
I love how the British talk in Parliament, i've watched it on TV what i've seen is intelligent and witty while still cutting like a knife. I once heard a MP call another honorable opponent's plan an "infalted pig's bladder on a stick". now THAT is good stuff.
So, they already agreed to keep money market funds whole.
McCain should be ashamed. Democracy is worth more than the economy. Stand up and debate.
They could move the debate to Washington and have it be about the economy and the financial system...
Paulson is sounding like a liar to the people here and like einstein to them politicians there.
Comrade Bagolders,
Yeah, I really want to know what this alternative is.
Doing nothing causes WHAT to happen?
Nostrovia,
"If you want an answer, you have to keep your question under 5minutes"
Are you kidding me?????
why paulson is wrong? is that
whypaulsoniswrong.com?????
WTF is McCain going to do? He knows less than shit about the economy and now suddenly he's going to rush in and save the day? Maybe he'll bring Phil with him and just give one great big apology for all they've fucked up...I can't believe anyone in their right mind would fall for this pandering, drooling old fool...
I hope they both go back to DC - if ever there was a time for bitter partisan gridlock - that time is now!
Since it seems obvious that republicans will not vote for the giveaway, I think the best McCain could do is stand back and continue to be the outsider... that is what got him where he is.
Any attempt now to come of as a 'great leader' is more likely to simply reveal him as an old grouch. His political instincts are not sure enough for him to be at the center of something fast-moving
Should we give more crack and meth to the addicts or risk the possibility that they may get angry?
Liberal academic econo's quoted by a republican. Marvelous.
I think I just got banned on Mish's blog. I was blocked on the Roubini blog I'm pretty sure for bringing up derivatives risk studies at the universities and for mentioning the false info that started the War in Iraq.
With Mish, I was bringing up the possibility that a lot of this Econ blog outrage is from the banning of shorting financials along with the taxpayer rip-off issue in the bailout.
I'm just saying that now it can be seen what's it's like to scream at the Machine in futility the way many activists have done in calling for government and central banking accountability for the last seven years of this governmant takeover of this nation.
NO EQUITY NO DEAL!!!
Right on man! So simple yet so true.
Why are they all wrong and you are right...Go Pryce baby!
This is going to be a fun day. a fun day
I cannot think of any business that would only make a Plan A, with not contingencies. In my experience, when given the choice of either being forced into a decision or nothing, nothing is the better choice.
Bush might be announcing the bank holiday we've all been expecting.
How can Bernanke claim instruments are currently improperly valued when many of these assets are going to default in the next few years? He assumes all these securities will exist and won't be worthless. Is this guy for real?
What happened to Paulson's left pinky? yuk....
Paulson = Lienstein?
"You don't think some opportunistic scaremongering is going on?"
Sure, there's scaremongering. That's what politics is all about.
However, it's obvious from their statements and chit-chat that they REALLY DIDN'T understand the scope and depth of the problem. They've been caught flat-footed.
Meanwhile, Conjure and I are off to the big city to top off the liquor and cigar supplies, as well as our load list.
Good luck, guys and gals. You're going to need it.
Is Congresswoman Pryce really Conjure in Drag? She is awesome.
YES BUT THE JAPS ARE NOW BUYING YOUR FAILED INSTITUTIONS A FEW YEARS LATER ASSHOLE!!!