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WaMu Woo Hoo!
First! Take that Nemo!
Anyone see this yet?
FLASH: Fed Speaking Out Both Sides Of Mouth - The Market Ticker
(re-post)
"I used a WaMu ATM today and it asked to borrow $20 till Friday"
Credit to LOLFED
Friday is looking a loooong way off right now.
Too damn bad we cant short em.
If this ends those annoying commercials I'm all for it....
wooo hoooooo ! ! !
....
The SEC really needs to ban ratings agency downgrades of financial firms.
Nemo, expect a press release on that tomorrow
Add in McCain's "the deal has to be done by Monday" pitch and you have to wonder.
What's going to happen before Monday?
WaMu Junk!
In other breaking news... Pope still Catholic.
I wonder if the WaMu CDS pool will push another bank or two under as well...
Ben stein was on the radio today sounding like a crackpot perma-bear. He was recommending jail time for IB
executives.
ROFL
On Wall Street, Bears were still shtting on WaMu. The Pope was more circumspect.
What's going to happen before Monday?
SS | 09.24.08 - 7:16 pm | #
Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday...
Check this:
"New York MTA Nixes 21,000 Bridge, Tunnel Passes After 54 Years
By Chris Dolmetsch
Sept. 24 (Bloomberg) -- The free ride is over for thousands of government officials, emergency workers, police officers and firefighters who cross the seven bridges and two tunnels connecting New York City's five boroughs. Ending a practice in place since 1954, the board of New York's state Metropolitan Transportation Authority voted 7-6 today to revoke about 21,000 free passes for 90 organizations, including the mayor's office, the city's emergency management office, the district attorneys and borough presidents."
They're trying to meet a projected budget shortfall. We'll be seeing a lot more of this, I expect.
Democrat Barack Obama is accusing his Republican opponent of being slow to speak out against huge salaries for Wall Street executives.
Obama says John McCain is suddenly talking like "a hard-charging populist." But Obama said Wednesday McCain wasn't concerned about the issue a year ago, when Obama introduced legislation to restrict executive compensation.
The presidential race is being dominated by the economic turmoil on Wall Street. Both candidates argue they've been the most outspoken on how to respond, particularly in insisting that any bailout keeps executives from profiting
Yah, no more ratings downgrades, stop the shorts, let accounting fraud reign!!
Scrap iron is bringing a pretty price nowadays...
I think Ben Stein just had a conversion. Did you see this piece?
Yahoo! Personal Finance: Calculators,Money Advice,Guides,& More
Scrap iron is bringing a pretty price nowadays...
Funny you should mention that, comrade. My grocery store just put in a whole bunch of plastic grocery carts. The manager told me it was because people were stealing huge numbers of metal carts and taking them to Mexico to sell for scrap.
Credit to LOLFED
General Secretary Nemo
I doubt whether it will be self financed but I'm sure the Fed will pitch in..
Clipped this from AP:
House ethics launches investigation of Rangel
WASHINGTON (AP) The House ethics committee said Wednesday it was establishing an investigative panel to determine whether Rep. Charles Rangel, the influential chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, had broken House rules as a result of several reported lapses in his personal affairs...
House Republican leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, welcomed the investigation and renewed his call for Rangel to vacate his chairmanship. "During this time of economic crisis, it is not in our nation's best interest to have the chairman of the House's powerful tax-writing committee under investigation for unethical conduct related to his failure to comply with tax laws...Rangel, 78, last week wrote six checks for back taxes totaling $10,800...Rangel has been hit by a series of embarrassing revelations that he didn't pay taxes on rental income for a beach house in the Dominican Republic; that he used three rent-stabilized apartments in Harlem, including one for a campaign office; and that he used his congressional stationery to seek private donations to a college center named after him.
So the head of the House committee in charge of tax legislation...has been cheating on his taxes. DOH!
wall street will go free with non-accountability!!
The trash and recycling dumpsters in my alley are combed by trash-pickers on an almost hourly basis. That tells me that the scrap business is pretty popular.
Karl, your self promoting again. And sounding a little hysterical. But your spellings better
Who the hell at this point still has thier money in WaMu??
wallytheRhino,
It's best to use correct spelling in any post where you criticize the spelling of another!
"So the head of the House committee in charge of tax legislation...has been cheating on his taxes."
And you expected otherwise? Taxes are for the little people... maybe he was channeling Leona Helmsley?
well, I got platter right, as well as a few other words
Maybe they want the deal done by Monday because Tuesday is September 30, the end of the quarter.
"I think Ben Stein just had a conversion."
Just read his articles on Yahoo starting 18 months ago. NOBODY has been a bigger fool than he on this subject. I will NEVER take that man seriously no matter how many conversions he has.
Sept. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Putnam Investments LLC said clients in a money-market fund it froze last week will receive an equal number of shares in a fund run by Federated Investors Inc.
The $12.3 billion Putnam Prime Money Market Fund was liquidated at 5 p.m. New York time today, with shareholders transferred to the $22.1 billion Federated Prime Obligations Fund, the two companies said today in a statement. The Putnam fund had a $10 million minimum investment.
Putnam closed the fund on Sept. 17 under ``significant redemption pressure'' to prevent assets from falling below $1 a share, known as breaking the buck. The company said the fund held no securities issued by bankrupt Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., or by Washington Mutual Inc. or American International Group Inc., whose shares this year have fallen 83 percent and 94 percent.
Uh oh. Better add another 100B to the bailout to replenish the FDIC fund (as WaMu takes it down dangerously low).
Who's Karl?
WaMu will not be the last, either. Does anyone know of any big counterparty risk on WaMu, other than the people they gave the funny-money mortages to?
i like WM long under 2 bucks. that deposit base and retail presence is incredible.
of course, this is more or less as conservative as a rays pennant bet.
We're going to need more Fridays.
The trash and recycling dumpsters in my alley are combed by trash-pickers on an almost hourly basis. That tells me that the scrap business is pretty popular.
sm_landlord | 09.24.08 - 7:23 pm | #
I used to live in LA. You inadvertently summed it up: alleys (ick), homeless and vagrants patroling streets constantly scavaging.
Seattle Post-Intelligencer: David Horsey
Hanky-Bernanke will have to print if they want to hold off the deflationary wave.
There is one other option - we could deliberately shut down certain classes of credit markets, the ones that serve no real economic purpose. With fewer channels in which to flow, the available credit could be targeted back into useful economic activity. The market will do this for us, but it will be chaotic. A strategic shutdown of e.g. CDS and other "secondary" credit markets might be the best way to protect the more-vital consumer and commercial lending markets. No one will starve if someone can't write a CDS (as far as I know), but we've just seen a few thousands put out of work today because a car dealership can't fund its inventory anymore.
I think Ben Stein just had a conversion. Did you see this piece?
-sm_landlord
...The crisis occurred (to greatly oversimplify) because the financial system allowed entities to place bets on whether or not those mortgages would ever be paid. You didn't have to own a mortgage to make the bets. These bets, called Credit Default Swaps, are complex. But in a nutshell, they allow someone to profit immensely - staggeringly - if large numbers of subprime mortgages are not paid off and go into default.
The profit can be wildly out of proportion to the real amount of defaults, because speculators can push down the price of instruments tied to the subprime mortgages far beyond what the real rates of loss have been. As I said, the profits here can be beyond imagining. (In fact, they can be so large that one might well wonder if the whole subprime fiasco was not set up just to allow speculators to profit wildly on its collapse...)
Interesting. That wouldn't shock me very much. Kind of like the "doomsday machine" in Dr. Strangelove was entirely fictitious. Well, time to start spending money and digging tunnels to hide in, quick!
Re: Scrap prices.
I work for a general contractor. All of a sudden there is this industry that was created.
They will supply us with a dumpster on our site for free and let us put all the metal we want in it. They will scrap it and give us half the value.
Pretty symbiotic considering we use to have to pay to have the dumpster and pay to have it emptied.
.....
Funny you should mention that, comrade. My grocery store just put in a whole bunch of plastic grocery carts. The manager told me it was because people were stealing huge numbers of metal carts and taking them to Mexico to sell for scrap.
merciless | 09.24.08 - 7:22 pm | #
Let's paint the picture... a big long line of people at the international crossing in say El Paso Juarez with grocery carts full of their stuff... puts a new meaning on the phrase 'checking out'.
I don't doubt the grocery mgr is losing cats - but I DOUBT they have to go as far as Mexico to scrap them out. [Hint: You can do it here too].
U.S. Treasury bill rates fell on Wednesday, with one-month rates briefly dipping below zero, as worries about passage of the government's bank bailout caused a stampede into cash and safe-haven assets.
Lawmakers were holding a second day of hearings on the government's proposed $700 billion bank bailout on Wednesday. Worries about the plan's prospects curbed appetite for stocks and intensified safety bids for bills as well as longer-dated bonds, traders and analysts said.
CEOs need more cash, HELP!
WallytheRhino writes:
Karl, your self promoting again. And sounding a little hysterical. But your spellings better
WallytheRhino | 09.24.08 - 7:23 pm | #
LOL!!!
No one will starve if someone can't write a CDS (as far as I know), but we've just seen a few thousands put out of work today because a car dealership can't fund its inventory anymore.
Wisdom Seeker
I had wondered about this. Why would this not be feasible?
dryfly,
when i read that all i could think of was kramer:
"I've crunched the numbers Jerry, it doesnt work"
(10 cent can deposit for MI)
.....
Was this the end game all along? Ride the bubble, explode it before Bush leaves office, and use Cheney's clever tactics to get another one by the American people.
"I used to live in LA. You inadvertently summed it up: alleys (ick), homeless and vagrants patroling streets constantly scavaging."
yup, sounds like your average place off of mulholland.
New Freddie Mac CEO to be paid $900,000 salary
Expired
BB writes:
New Freddie Mac CEO to be paid $900,000 salary
Expired? .v=1
BB | 09.24.08 - 7:37 pm | #
But he gets food stamps too, right?
CNN.com - Page not found
New Homes for CEOs, too!
The American people are angry about executive compensation and rightfully so,'' Paulson, a former chief executive officer of Goldman Sachs Group Inc., told the House panel today, departing from his prepared remarks.We must find a way to address this in the legislation, but without undermining the effectiveness of this program.''
The remarks were a shift from yesterday, when the Treasury chief said introducing limits on pay would impede getting the fund started. Both Democratic and Republican legislators have insisted on some restrictions on compensation for companies that would sell devalued assets to the government.
El Cliffo writes:
Maybe they want the deal done by Monday because Tuesday is September 30, the end of the quarter.
El Cliffo | 09.24.08 - 7:27 pm | #
Copy that!
Its also the date/time window hedgies are suject to customers adding or removing money (end of each Q) - at least for most hedgies...and its another 1.4T market leveraged 30X kinda like Lehma
That way, you can say the housing market is now 'contained'.
bgates --
i like WM long under 2 bucks. that deposit base and retail presence is incredible.
If the bondholders wind up losing even a single penny, then the common stock is worth precisely zero. The ratings agencies are saying there is a significant chance that the bondholders lose a lot more than a penny.
Feel free to gamble in WM, but your odds would probably be better betting on "00" in Vegas.
I wonder how many other banks, like WaMu, are sinking, but left to take on more and more water by the FDIC (due to lack of resources, or a desire not to cause further panic)???
OT: Hey I was just reading on the oil drum that there are spot gasoline shortages in some places across the south (Asheville, Atlanta, DFW), anybody out in CR land have any first hand observation?
"Feel free to gamble in WM, but your odds would probably be better betting on "00" in Vegas."
heh, i actually had a nice win on the big green O in roulette once.
if the plan goes through, it could be a 5.50 stock very easily. and if we're being really objective, XLF really should be trading at maye 3 bucks.
We're going to need that 700 billion just for the FDIC ...
F the banks ...
Both McCain and Palin are saying the Return of the Great Depression is coming on Monday.
Does this mean that Congress is about to pass Smoot-Hawley Part 2: The Reckoning?
Next, Couric asked about the $700 billion government bailout of bad debt - and whether she supports it.
Palin: I'm all about the position that America is in and that we have to look at a $700 billion bailout. And as Sen. McCain has said unless this nearly trillion dollar bailout is what it may end up to be, unless there are amendments in Paulson's proposal, really I don't believe that Americans are going to support this and we will not support this. The interesting thing in the last couple of days that I have seen is that Americans are waiting to see what John McCain will do on this proposal. They're not waiting to see what Barack Obama is going to do. Is he going to do this and see what way the political wind's blowing? They're waiting to see if John McCain will be able to see these amendments implemented in Paulson's proposal.
"Obama says John McCain is suddenly talking like "a hard-charging populist." But Obama said Wednesday McCain wasn't concerned about the issue a year ago, when Obama introduced legislation to restrict executive compensation"
So what's his point ? That he has has been a hard-charging populist forever ? Good stuff!
"Does this mean that Congress is about to pass Smoot-Hawley Part 2: The Reckoning?"
the killing of the china/cvx deal and the dubai ports deals in the past couple years have been the equivalent of smoot hawley. those horses left the barn a while ago.
Finally, an item that might hit a little closer to home for the average American:
"At a hearing on the impending DTV transition Tuesday, Senator Daniel Inouye, chairman of the Commerce Committee, warned that the loss of analog over-the-air TV reception, occurring just 29 days into a new presidential administration, might spell trouble for a country already beset by the financial crisis. "While federal agencies and industry have stepped up their efforts, I continue to be concerned that they are not fully prepared for the flood of coupon requests and calls that we can expect just before and after the transition," said the senator, a Democrat from Hawaii. "As the current administration winds down, both agencies must remain vigilant so that the next administration does not inherit a communications crisis."
Referring to test of the DTV switchover conducted two weeks ago, Inouye wasn't encouraged. "As the recent test in Wilmington, North Carolina, demonstrated, even with a Herculean investment of time and resources that will be impossible to replicate throughout the rest of the country, consumers made thousands of phone calls seeking help with various aspects of the transition. On a national level, this may translate to millions of calls. Unless more is done, February 17, and 18, and 19, will be very long days indeed...CNET"
Well, maybe we can put Paulson in charge of the call center...he'll be out of his current job then. He's shown he's capable of blowing smoke for long periods of time.
Actually, I think that there will in fact be quite an uproar when millions of people flip on their TV's and get static.
Does this mean that Congress is about to pass Smoot-Hawley Part 2: The Reckoning?
Smoot Hawley had nothing to do with the Great Depression , that is just a myth promulgated by the free traders and banksters ...
Does this mean that Congress is about to pass Smoot-Hawley Part 2: The Reckoning?
Some Congressperson should re-introduce Glass-Steagall this week. Because that would be hilarious.
Citizen Scotto i think Seb commented about it yesterday.
....
I might jump back into WM. If I overpay buy say 60% and hold to maturity, it will zoom to the moon and life will be grand.
bearly,
Blink and this fauxlection's over. And we're still in Wonderland. Can we get over this back and forth and focus on the BFNYC?
"Smoot Hawley had nothing to do with the Great Depression , that is just a myth promulgated by the free traders and banksters ..."
actually, i'm a paleo-conservative goldbug type who despises the bernanke take on the depression, but you're wrong.
smoot/hawley was part of a general worldwide nationalist/fascist trend that had absolutely everything to do with the great depression.
Spot shortages in Atlanta? Every other station has bags over the pumps.
Long lines here and there.
For those keeping score, CVS Caremark has been added to the no-short list.
Shipping containers could be 'dream' homes for thousands
CNN.com - Page not found
Then
smoot/hawley was part of a general worldwide nationalist/fascist trend
Now
George/Hank/Ben are the trend, the new black, avant guarde setters for neocom federalism
The American people are angry about executive compensation and rightfully so,'' Paulson, a former chief executive officer of Goldman Sachs Group Inc., told the House panel today, departing from his prepared remarks.We must find a way to address this in the legislation, but without undermining the effectiveness of this program.''
Excuse me, but what the flying f*ck does the C-suite's compensation have to do with the "effectiveness" of throwing gigantic sums of money at the exact banks these incompetent cretins have run into the ground in the first place?
Horrors! Could it be that Congress pulls the curtain back to find that these wastes of oxygen are in reality more concerned with the number of commas in their golden parachute than with the very survival of the institutions they're in charge of?!
Eff these effing jagoffs and the helicopters they flew in on. If you're crawling hat-in-hand to the gub'mint officials for assistance, you should be paid like a gub'mint official yourself. GS-14 salaries all 'round!
The Bush bailout proposal created a year ago and just revealed shows it was completely rational for these firms to feed the bubble because they were counting on their agents in the executive branch to engineer an industry written bailout.
Nemo - I had to look them up.
CVS Caremark (NYSE: CVS) is the largest provider of prescriptions and related health care services in the nation. The Company fills or manages more than 1 billion prescriptions annually. Through its unmatched breadth of service offerings, CVS Caremark is transforming the delivery of health care services in the U.S. The Company is uniquely positioned to effectively manage costs and improve health care outcomes through its approximately 6,300 CVS/pharmacy stores; its pharmacy benefit management, mail order and specialty pharmacy division, Caremark Pharmacy Services; its retail-based health clinic subsidiary, MinuteClinic; and its online pharmacy, CVS.com
CVS Caremark Corporation typically funds its operations through internally generated cash flow and commercial paper as well as through borrowings under various committed and uncommitted lines of credit. Our strong balance sheet has allowed us at times to enter the capital markets to fund acquisitions
bgates
and the % of GDP tat was trade ?
Also explains why Bush has been so quiet about this issue the last few years because he didn't want to feed the American people's anger.
President Bush is set to unveil his massive financial rescue plan during a special presidential address to the nation.
Bush is expected to ask Congress to move forward with a 700 billion dollar bailout plan. Some Democrats want to make sure the plan gives Congress oversight power.
But Republicans argue, it gives the government too big a role in the markets. CBS News will provide live coverage beginning at 9PM.
Does anyone think the Bush speech tonight is to scare us with "the Abyss" we have been warned about? Is it China and/or Japan that has made Monday the zero hour for action? Does anyone else need a beer? Or three?
Here in SoCal all the price signals are are disconnected. Paid $3.499 for gas. Lowest in longer than I can remember. Fry's is selling computers with Vista and 4Gb/320Gb SATA/HMDIgraphics/Dvd-DL for less than a single copy of Vista. Craigslist is crowded with high dollar items; stereos, DVD collections, SUVs for deep discounts. The world famous Camarillo Premium Outlets are adding another 45 new stores and their prices are generally higher than everyday sale prices in regular stores.
All I know is that from now on I'm going to get a couple rolls of nickels every time I go to the bank until they stop me. Heck the zinc in pennies is approaching par. Hoocoodanode?
TPM has an outline of the Democrat's counterproposal posted.
The TPM DOCUMENT COLLECTION - Working Draft of House Bailout Plan
It insists on warrants, compensation limits, judicial review, regular reports, etc.
In re: shipping containers as homes (from the Assoc of American Railroads website):
Eighteen of 21 carload commodity groups were down from a year ago. Loadings of motor vehicles and equipment fell 25.1 percent while lumber and wood products were down 18.4 percent and primary forest products were off 16.2 percent. On the upside, metallic ores gained 20.1 percent from last year while coal rose 7.0 percent.
Should be able to score a few boxcars cheaply.
It insists on warrants, compensation limits, judicial review, regular reports, etc.
Comrade K | 09.24.08 - 7:56 pm | #
Communism???
"The world famous Camarillo Premium Outlets are adding another 45 new stores and their prices are generally higher than everyday sale prices in regular stores."
Dawg, you dog! You confirmed my suspicions!
CVS stores are everywhere here in DC. I think there are 5 or 6 within a mile of my house.
Spot shortages in Atlanta? Every other station has bags over the pumps.
Long lines here and there.
AlladinsLamp | 09.24.08 - 7:47 pm | #
Interesting this is getting like no coverage in the MSM.
Its the Chinese. They are evil. They do not look like me. They worship false gawds. They have no moose.
The economy = REO Speedwagon, and I have more than a feeling 2 tires have blown.
The Texas way - the biggest ever fraud perpetrated on the American people.
and the % of GDP tat was trade ?
Presumably somewhere north of 'nothing'.
Get the CEO's under oath and make em explain Credit Default Swaps...on national TV. I'll bring the popcorn! Jesus, Jay Leno and SNL will sh1t themselves parodying that!
Fun w/containers...
gas is hard to find in Charlotte Asheville and Nashville.
I wonder how much is in the WaMu bonus pool?
anecdotally, midwestern grain productivity caused a permanent decline in the status of ukraine in the 1880s, which was a relative peak for gdp export at about 8%. by the 1920s, it was closer to 5%.
but it is a bit more subtle than something that can be reduced to a hard # which is hard to quantify in any case. smoot-hawley just encouraged a nationalist, economically isolationist trend. it is hard to argue that this economic isolationism helped deepen and prolong the depression.
"Should be able to score a few boxcars cheaply."
Retired ship graveyards are where it's at. Torch-cut the captains qtrs and a briefing room or two and bury them. Perfect underground castle.
Citizen Scotto--
CVS originally established its presence in DC by buying the Peoples Drug chain.
Coincidence?
I think not, comrade.
SS writes:
"Add in McCain's "the deal has to be done by Monday" pitch and you have to wonder. What's going to happen before Monday?"
SS | 09.24.08 - 7:16 pm | #
And didn't he refer to "weekend hearings"?
"I'm all about the position that America is in"
This is Presidential????
WaMu on Friday...Deal by market open Sunday...
Citizen Scotto writes:
OT: Hey I was just reading on the oil drum that there are spot gasoline shortages in some places across the south (Asheville, Atlanta, DFW), anybody out in CR land have any first hand observation?
Just talked to elderly mother in Asheville - she spoke about it for several minutes - gas hard to get, lines of motorists at stations clogging up streets, lots of police presence to discourage brawls. She made noises about coming up for an extended visit....
"And didn't he refer to "weekend hearings"?"
Ruh-roh! Interrupt football, and J6P will KNOW the end is nigh!!!!
It's not Monday they're worried about but the new President in November. Got to get going while the going's good.
CVS originally established its presence in DC by buying the Peoples Drug chain.
Coincidence?
I think not, comrade.
elgraccho | 09.24.08 - 8:02 pm | #
We are all the people's drug chain now, Komrade.
And didn't he refer to "weekend hearings"?
peAkcredit | 09.24.08 - 8:02 pm | #
Good God!!! McCain wants to ban FOOTBALL???
"Good God!!! McCain wants to ban FOOTBALL???"
Good Lord, as if the Kos kids here didn't need a new meme... He's joking kossacks, just JOKING!
Probably will see about ten pin-striped twits protesting for mother of all bailouts.
as evidence of the deepening of the depression,
import share of gdp:
1929 5.4%
1939 3.4%
merchanidise import share of total goods prod:
1929 8%
1939 4.9%
import share of service production
1929 3.1%
1939 2%
blueridge writes:
Citizen Scotto writes:
OT: Hey I was just reading on the oil drum that there are spot gasoline shortages in some places across the south (Asheville, Atlanta, DFW), anybody out in CR land have any first hand observation?
Just talked to elderly mother in Asheville - she spoke about it for several minutes - gas hard to get, lines of motorists at stations clogging up streets, lots of police presence to discourage brawls. She made noises about coming up for an extended visit....
blueridge | 09.24.08 - 8:04 pm | #
I just went on a 500 mile swing through the Midwest - did not see ONE shortage or even a line.
Hype?? Regional shortages from Ike? BS?
Can McLame just keep his campaign on hold all the way until November 4?
"Some Congressperson should re-introduce Glass-Steagall this week. Because that would be hilarious."
Then we could re-animate the corpse of Ben Strong to throw another soiree down at the Jekyll Island Hunt Club. He could invite Ben and Hank too. Good times, good times...
OT regarding gas.
I hear that "it's worse than Katrina."
BTW we have seen no issues at all here in the DC area with gasoline supplies or prices since Ike.
Brian writes:
"Good God!!! McCain wants to ban FOOTBALL???"
Good Lord, as if the Kos kids here didn't need a new meme... He's joking kossacks, just JOKING!
Brian | 09.24.08 - 8:08 pm | #
LOL - ya in election season I should include the [/snark] brackets.
BB writes:
Seattle Post-Intelligencer: File not found? ID=1829
Fuckin Brillant
Zero problems with gas in Pittsburgh (that I or my friends are aware of).
Gas is hard to find in Nashville and has been since last Thursday. You can get it, but have to get there first or wait in line. I've been relatively lucky but it took me 40 minutes to get 8 gallons to fill up last Saturday, and 8 again last night when I pulled up with a tanker just leaving.
SS writes:
"Add in McCain's "the deal has to be done by Monday" pitch and you have to wonder. What's going to happen before Monday?"
SS | 09.24.08 - 7:16 pm | #
Anonymous Wag writes:
"Something is brewing, deep down in trading rooms... But what? BUT WHAT??"
We're probably in a complete credit seizure, with FCBs choking on wall st. toxins and threatening to sell US assets or hang our ambassador unless they see an immediate bailout, and with B and H striking out, Bush is tonight's designated bullshipper, but it looks desparate and bearish.
A weekend bail-a-thon, with a deal Sunday afternoon, but with fed credibility lost the reflation stock pops are doomed and bad news could once again be bad news. Dow down 1000 one day soon.
I just went on a 500 mile swing through the Midwest - did not see ONE shortage or even a line.
Hype?? Regional shortages from Ike? BS?
dryfly | 09.24.08 - 8:09 pm | #
Apparently it is regional shortages from Ike caused by the downtime to the pipelines and refineries.
Those who get their fuel from "anywhere other than the gulf coast" have not been affected.
Anyone consider maybe the next act in the script is for McCain to help negotiate the deal that saves America, and shows he can handle the economy?
Or am I just too disillusioned with the current regime?
The purpose of this 700 b is NOT to bail out the banks. The end game of this Bush proposal is to set up a program that will bleed the Federal government dry and kill every social program, period.
Grover Norquist has the Federal government in the bath tub and the Neo Cons are pushing as hard as possible to drown the government in Wall St red ink.
We all know there is plenty of cash on the sidelines to buy every bank in the US. If the Wall St boys take the offers it will save the banking system but at the expense of their personal wealth. Which they do not want to give up.
I have no sympathy for these criminals, they created a ponzi scheme where they packaged and repacked the same paper then sold it to each other over and over again for fat fees.
If Buffet gets 20% on his investment the the US taxpayer should get no less. That is the current market price for bailouts.
Again, the thing that amazes me about this gasoline shortage issue is that the MSM seem to be ignoring it.
Headlines like "gas shortage in Atlanta!" should draw lots of eyeballs, no?
New Orleans here, filled up two hours ago @ $3.58/gal (89 oct). Cheapest I've paid since Katrina I think....
Quick anecdote: There is a Shell station just outside the gates of Norco's Motiva Refinery (Shell gas refinery). Instead of throwing a hose over the fence to the gas station, they drive the gas up to Wisconsin and then all the way back down to the gas station... Go figure.
Keith Olbermann just announced that McLame called David Letterman personally, and cancelled his appearance on tonight's show. He said he had to return to D.C. Immediately, to deal with the financial crisis.
Several minutes before the afternoon taping of Late Night, David was informed that not only wasn't McLame on his way back to D.C., but he was on site, in another studio, taping an interview with Katie Couric.
David apparently got PISSED on air during the broadcast, and exposed McLame for the LIAR he is. The guy actually called Mr. Letterman and Flat Out LIED.
Oh....the reason Keith knew all this, is that he was the substitute guest replacing john.
CNN:
updated 7 minutes ago
McCain, Obama at odds over debate delay
Republican U.S. presidential candidate John McCain said he was suspending his campaign to deal with the nation's economic crisis. McCain also said he would not attend Friday night's debate with Democratic rival Barack Obama unless an economic bailout deal is reached by then.
Lovely day, CR. Now one more reason to have more fridays. Was that the day our son of God lynched ?
Yes. Its true. (News from Bloomberg)
The real question is, who is copying who?
Kazakhstan Plans Paulson Style Bailout: Borat?
Oh, and Letterman cut into the feed of the Couric interview, while in progress, and yelled at McCain.
Dear American:
I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.
I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.
I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transactin is 100% safe.
This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.
Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.
Yours Faithfully Minister of Treasury Paulso
while we're off topic, let me also remind everyone that zambrano totally lacks the temperament to win in the playoffs.
Forget Friday, is it January 20th yet?
Those who get their fuel from "anywhere other than the gulf coast" have not been affected.
Citizen Scotto | 09.24.08 - 8:11 pm | #
Could be - I read that 20% of US oil imports come in through Minnesota...
MINNESOTA? WTF? you say...
Yup a number of big pipelines coming from Canada feeding refineries here in the Midwest (Minnesota, Illinois, etc). All I can say is thank goodness blizzards don't knock out refineries else we'd be in trouble.
So maybe that explains why supplies are adequate & prices are flat or still going down up here while you all are running out.
New Orleans here, filled up two hours ago @ $3.58/gal (89 oct). Cheapest I've paid since Katrina I think....
Before Ike it was very hard to find a hotel room in Louisiana - all booked up with FEMA personnel.
Everyone relax. The next Friday the 13th isn't until February '09.
McCain reminds me of a boxer who is up against the ropes, being pounded on by a better opponent and then accidentally on purpose spits out his mouth guard or fakes a groin hit in order to get a respite...
If he can't deal with a debate and a propsoed bailout at the same time then what right does he have to say he's ready to lead?!?!?!?!
BTW - if anyone sees the REAL Republican party say hi from me would you?
Cheers
China is counting down to 1310 GMT on 25 September for its third manned space flight, which will include a spacewalk.
Just heard on CNBC from Steve Liesman:
" A deal is already done. Tonight's speech is for political cover so congressmen can vote for a bill. Nitty gritty details are all thats left"
As he is saying this the older man (Cashman I think?) is yelling "So there is no democracy? There is no democracy?"
Exactly my man, welcome to the real world. Wish you had taken the red pill?
Anyone know what SIFMA is doing on this???
I live in Atl . . . yes gas is getting pretty darn scarce. My wife filled up on premium as it was the only thing available in about a 3 mile radius (it's downtown ATL) for ~$5/gal.
It's the supply disruption from Ike, and the special type of gas Atl requires for smog.
The stupid thing is that no one understands economics. If there are supply disruptions then prices should rise . . . a lot (to something 5-7/gal). But in order to not be prosecuted for "gouching" they keep the gas prices low and vuallaaa shortages.
It's amazing a free market does a great job with shortages . . . if you let it actually work.
Doug Noland has been calling the big credit picture binge for years.
"Before Ike it was very hard to find a hotel room in Louisiana - all booked up with FEMA personnel."
Don't forget Gustav, which wiped out much of non-touristy (hence no coverage) South Louisiana. I was in one of those hotels when Ike hit because power was still out from Gustav.
AP reporting that Bush has invited McCain, Obama and other top leaders to the White House to discuss the Financial Crisis. Political meddling at its finest.
Hostile lines at gas stations in Atlanta:
Gas Shortage Causing Hostile Environment At Metro Atlanta Stations - News Story - WSB Atlanta
Video (ignore the ad):
11Alive.com | Atlanta, GA | Video
"Doug Noland has been calling the big credit picture binge for years."
because of his column, i shorted FRE...
back in 2002. timing is everything.
Barack Obama just threw his support behind Bush's Bailout. So much for "change". I guess his slogan really means "Trust us, we'll be sure to leave a little change in your pocket"
WaMu is like Cheney or Fidel.
It's getting hard to believe it's actually still alive.
TED Spread at 3.02, danger teritory at close. Super critical moment at hand.
World Is Ending Saturday
Postpone The Debate
Did anyone see Leisman from CNBC just now calling this debate basically kabuki theater as this bailout was effectively passed last week?
I look forward to sending the youtube to my senator and congressmen. CNN poll 05% of USA AGAINST BAILOUT.
Keith Olbermann just announced that McLame called David Letterman personally, and cancelled his appearance on tonight's show. He said he had to return to D.C. Immediately, to deal with the financial crisis.
Several minutes before the afternoon taping of Late Night, David was informed that not only wasn't McLame on his way back to D.C., but he was on site, in another studio, taping an interview with Katie Couric.
David apparently got PISSED on air during the broadcast, and exposed McLame for the LIAR he is. The guy actually called Mr. Letterman and Flat Out LIED.
Oh....the reason Keith knew all this, is that he was the substitute guest replacing john.
Surely you joke?
"BTW - if anyone sees the REAL Republican party say hi from me would you?"
The real (R) party died shortly after "Read my lips...". At least the (D) party never had principles to compromise in the first place.
ZING
That means consumers are going to have an increasingly difficult time getting bank loans for car purchases, credit cards, home equity credit lines, student loans and even commercial real estate, experts say.
When financial analyst Meredith Whitney wrote in a report last October that the nation's largest bank, Citigroup, lacked sufficient capital for the risks it had assumed, she was considered a heretic.
However, Whitney was proved correct: Citigroup pushed out its CEO, sought foreign investors and slashed its dividend. Her comments now carry added weight on Wall Street, and she has a new warning for ordinary Americans: The crisis in credit markets is far from over, and it increasingly will affect consumers.
"In fact, we believe that what lies ahead will be worse than what is behind us," Whitney and colleagues at Oppenheimer & Co. wrote in a lengthy report last month about threats faced by big national banks, including Bank of America, Wachovia and others.
40 minutes till our Hot Karl.
ComradeColin writes:
Barack Obama just threw his support behind Bush's Bailout. So much for "change". I guess his slogan really means "Trust us, we'll be sure to leave a little change in your pocket"
Where in the world did you hear this? Mr. Obama has not given indication of any stance.
ian, I saw excatly that and posted it a little before (at 8:20pm) and that was some scary stuff.
I think the government should take 80% of the equity of Goldman and MS. They are not banks. Why did they get free access to the discount window and not AIG. Totally unfair. We now live in Russia as far as I am concerned.
We're all banks now.
"Did anyone see Leisman from CNBC just now..."
Was that before or after he said he wanted to kill Kudlow - to his face? He really said it, and they all kinda laughed. Kinda!
what's a hot karl?
bgates
Smoot Hawley was passed after the Great Depression had already started ...
the handwriting was already on the wall, Congress just responded in kind to other countries tariff increases ...
All part and parcel of the Great Depression that had already started . Smoot Hawley along with other countries tariff increases may have contributed to the depth of the Depression.
Surely you joke?
SS | 09.24.08 - 8:22 pm
Nope, Keith announced at top of show. Tune into Letterman.
It is a humorous play on words for the powers that be to say in effect:
"Lets get behind this plan..." get behind the plan to screw the taxpayers? Do republicans do that position?
Hey,
What about auction rate securities??
Face it. We are gonna have to burn the fields to save the soil.
See you all on the other side.
"comrade DH writes:
Ben stein was on the radio today sounding like a crackpot perma-bear. He was recommending jail time for IB
executives."
I heard that and was beside myself.
He called the terms of the Wall St. Bailout "insane".
He said he didn't understand why the Wall St. CEOs weren't being jailed, and instead are being promised the same exorbitant pay.
Not only that, he expressed doubt that things would really be that bad if we did nothing, i.e. no bailout. (I am in that camp.)
Overall, very negative on the bailout plan. I couldn't believe it was the same Ben Stein that told everybody to buy financials a year ago!
Wall Street made its bed. Let Wall Street sleep in it!
Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday...
dryfly | 09.24.08 - 7:18 pm
GWB would like to amend that to ...
Friday, Saturday, Sunday-I and Sunday-II
"the handwriting was already on the wall, Congress just responded in kind ..."
That is PRECISELY how history will judge today's bailout plan.
You Can't Hold An Election During A Financial Crisis
Dryfly-
Refined Products Pipelines
(cartoonish)map of refined product pipelines in the US.
The heavy black line from Houston to NYC is the Colonial which is the major supplier for the SE. It was down for some days after Ike. Also the refineries that supply it were down for some days.
Easy to see from this map why upper midwest and northeast and west were not affected by the gulf coast disruption.
Here in DC we seem to be on the border of the gulf coast supply and the NJ-area supply. Maybe that makes us more robust to supply disruptions.
Hot Karl is when you are... Wait. Maybe you should just Google it.
We had pretty measly growth rates for all this CDS writing. Exactly what was the purpose now, other than bringing on Armageddon?
Yep,
I just found a link to the Letterman thing. Pretty funny blowing off Letterman and staying to chat with Couric.
I hope that makes youtube tonight. It deserves to be played and played.
Who the hell at this point still has thier money in WaMu??
I am overdrawn at Wamu and will take care of it by, oh say... Saturday.
e: shipping containers as homes
Hey, are those strong enough for a quick and cheap underground home?? Hm......
I hate to just quote someone else, but one of the traders I most admire posted the following and I couldn't have said it better:
Details are coming out.
Most likely there will be 2 installments of 350 bil each, provisions for warrants, foreclosure relief, CEO pay cuts, etc....
And the market knows that the plan will pass sooner or later.
But....
The credit markets are still under stress with all that knowledge. The stock market looking very sick. Borrowing rates are going up, credit availability shrinking.
We also know that this plan will take forever to get implemented and will have minimal effect on the real world.
Bernanke said something important... "We don't know how effectively the economics of this plan will work, this measure is designed to boost market confidence" .... He lost the confidence game right there.
The market has nowhere to go but down. I doubt we'll even get a pop on the signing of this plan.
Hey, are those strong enough for a quick and cheap underground home?? Hm......
Yes but you need duct tape for the windows.
The real (R) party died shortly after "Read my lips...". At least the (D) party never had principles to compromise in the first place.
I'm from a Dem family and that just plain is not true...
Dem guiding principles are 'lose big, lose gloriously sticking to principles eight liberal arts college professors understand & approve of'...
McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry... all hall of fame losers... I'm sure Barak still has time to find his inner Dem and join them - from what I can see McCain's advisers are counting on that... that is the only explanation I have for their own positions.
"It's amazing a free market does a great job with shortages . . . if you let it actually work."
Dept of Energy has a link on its homepage to report gasoline price gouging...LOL
Department of Energy - Homepage
Who the hell at this point still has thier money in WaMu??
Who cares? It's insured. I'm mean, really. The FDIC has been performing admirably. I honestly considered taking their 5% cd offer. I went with the equally concerning, but slightly less desperate 4.5% from Ing. But, heck, I wouldn't have cared which one, except Ing was more convenient. Only the interest is at risk. I refuse to be so tied to panic response.
"Hey, are those strong enough for a quick and cheap underground home?? Hm......"
Absolutely, so long as you don't bury too deep. We buried an old school bus at the hunting camp and have used it over 20 years. That's where I got the idea for my buried ship-pieces castle...
A $700 billion slap in the face ...
Economics and Politics - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com
I thought this might help everybody's backbone a bit ...
F 'em ... no prisoners until they do their dirty deed ...
Buying a pool of subprime mortgages is not like buying part of a company, he said. The Treasury will own something the mortgages themselves, which if they pay the right amount for those loans, could earn the Treasury a return of 12 to 13 percent.
The key, of course, is price, which is where the Treasurys adviser would come in. Much of the opposition to the plan has come from a misunderstanding that the Treasury would buy troubled mortgage bonds for their face value, Mr. Gross said.
On the contrary, Mr. Gross said he would advise the Treasury to pay something closer to 65 or 60 cents on the dollar for the mortgage bonds.
If the price is right, the Treasurys going to make money, Mr. Gross said. They made money on Chrysler. They can make money on this.
Krugman get the F out of your ivory tower! And all the followers -blind leading the blind...
Anyone who actually trades and manages portfolios will tell you Paulson and Bernanke have merit with the fire-sale vs. fairvalue/HTM value concept. The market value bidders are guys going for 20% returns because they are hedge funds with big return bogeys.
Gross is not so philanthropic either, he is looking to do this for free because Blackrock has been creeping up on them in terms of media exposure. Plus I"m sure he'll use some of the information to his advantage.
NoVAOnlooker writes:
"AP reporting that Bush has invited McCain, Obama and other top leaders to the White House to discuss the Financial Crisis. Political meddling at its finest."
Yes, but they may also have an international FCB credit problem of some kind demanding a bailout.
This reflation may not be market bullish.
From prior thread (buck). This is simply incredible:
Bad News For The Bailout - Forbes.com
In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy.
"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."
enuff about the popularity contest. .. what about WAMU?
Warren Buffet knows better than most just how dirty and mean this Bush administration plays. The politically motivated prosecutions of AIG after he endorsed Kerry in 2004 will have left scars, and his advising Obama puts him at huge risk if Rove succeeds with another GOP victory.
Yes but you need duct tape for the windows.
You mean duct tape for the light tunnels from the roof... Actually, I'm very fond of that black roof patch stuff. Holds up pretty well. And the picture on the box is amusingly understanding of the purchaser's predicament. (It shows a guy in rain gear, up on his roof in a all out downpour, trying to patch a roofline.)
To date, Secretary Paulson and Chairman Bernanke have made some incredibly smart and tough decisions, but it is becoming clear that our markets need a comprehensive approach to address the current conditions. Today Secretary Paulson laid out such an approach and it is bold and very necessary. We are encouraged by Congress early reception to this plan and hope it will move with haste to approve it.
SIFMA News
Hey where do I fill out the application to be a truck driver to haul all that money from Washington DC across the way to New York City?
I anticipate a big need for cash truck drivers. How much will it be? 100 semis stuffed with cash? 1000?
Louis Brandeis once said, Sunshine is the best disinfectant, and it is, I might add, one of the easiest to apply. Therefore, we support meaningful disclosures of short positions that help prevent deceptive market behavior as long as those disclosures are designed so they do not negatively impact market liquidity. We look forward to seeing more details of this proposal.
SIFMA continues to work with the SEC to clarify questions about the scope and application of the other short sale rules relating to the new close-out requirement, including the elimination of the market maker exemption from this requirement. We hope to solicit interpretation on several important issues in this regard to ensure our markets and the national clearance and settlement system continue to operate smoothly and with the necessary liquidity.
ROTFLMAO!!! Sunshine!
I don't want to be political here but all republicans should make NEW calls tomorrow to their senators and reps and tell them you do not support this plan.
It seems that republicans have very serious ideological issues with this deal. Bush will try and cram it down the party.
I am not sure how any self-respecting republican can vote for this. In addition I don't think dems should vote for it either - but they are the party of bigger gov so ideologically it is at least consistent for them.
Comrade SIFMA Helper
were you at Jonestown passing out the Koolaide ?
Yep, here in the Atl gas is as scarce as hens teeth. For all the Yankees....there aint none to be found. If this is not a recession....wait until you can only fill up to 20 bucks a week nationwide comes along. Not all of the business models around the USA are mass transit "friendly".
Dryfly-
The page cannot be found pl.html
(cartoonish)map of refined product pipelines in the US.
Those are refined product pipelines... The pipeline I was referring to is a CRUDE pipeline from Alberta - so we in th Upper Midwest have adequate refinery capacity plenty of crude (from Canada) plus refined product from outside the region to boot. No surprise then that we are awash and the SE is hurting.
Obama & McCain are being invited to the White House to show them THE letter from the Chicomms. This is a need to know and since one of them is likely to win they need to know before they say something that would cause our masters to crack the whip.
"Hey, are those strong enough for a quick and cheap underground home?? Hm......"
Actually I have the load equations here in Rob Roy's wonderful book. Too bad I backed out on buying the property to put it on
I figured it still be for sale . . . and I suspect it is.
I anticipate a big need for cash truck drivers. How much will it be? 100 semis stuffed with cash? 1000?
Weather Helm | 09.24.08 - 8:36 pm | #
Nah, it'll just be one of those oversize novelty checks like the sweepstakes winners get.
stock_regulator: I called Dole and Burr earlier this afternoon, also my congressman from the peoples republic of Chapel Hill. I told them in no uncertain terms...no damn bailout without common and preferreds wiped out and haircuts for bondholders and heads on pikes...and I am a repub.
"Nah, it'll just be one of those oversize novelty checks like the sweepstakes winners get."
Nope. Those oversized checks have real collector value. Cash? Not so much value at all next week.
Off topic on WaMu Crash:
House speaker Nancy Pelosi "is talking very much about having money to pay for this that would come from some levy on the Securities Exchange themselves or a tax on people of great wealth, but finally, we have been arguing strongly that they should go with a stimulus to provide money for infrastructure, medical care, and low-income energy assistance," Frank added.
President George W. Bush will make a televised speech late Wednesday in a bid to boost pressure on wary lawmakers to adopt his embattled Wall Street rescue plan, his aides said.
The speech was to come as US lawmakers struggled to find compromise on steps to save troubled US banks, some voicing deep skepticism despite fears, stoked by the White House, that inaction could trigger a global financial meltdown.
Independent Senator Bernie Sanders, a self-described democratic socialist from Vermont, on Wednesday called for the richest Americans to shoulder the cost of Wall Street's financial debacle.
"Those are refined product pipelines... The pipeline I was referring to is a CRUDE pipeline from Alberta - so we in th Upper Midwest have adequate refinery capacity plenty of crude (from Canada) plus refined product from outside the region to boot. No surprise then that we are awash and the SE is hurting."
Oh yeah, we are on the same page.
I just think that map illustrates quickly why particular regions could have shortages -- some areas are essentially "singly supplied"
Death by a thousand (ratings) cuts continues....
Anyone who actually trades and manages portfolios will tell you Paulson and Bernanke have merit with the fire-sale vs. fairvalue/HTM value concept. The market value bidders are guys going for 20% returns because they are hedge funds with big return bogeys.
If they're so good, you buy 'em. They directly relate to the performance of US housing stock, don't they? I don't see the underlying assets performing, and I SURE don't see the underlying assets performing any better soon with the TED spread hanging out at 300 bp.
Didn't Fitch get the memo from HP & BB that those MBS's are worth a lot of $$$?
Hey, thanks Fitch for making that bailout even more expensive.
if only mccain could ude his arms...
Only 371 visitors on hand to watch the speech by America's greatest orator.
Byzantine_Ruins
I do buy them, and I bidding them getting 20% returns even if the whole thing gets 6x worse. So take that I'm smarter and richer than you. Haha.
Give me 700b and I'll buy them all.
I am a libertarian/republican as well for the record. I can't understand how any republican can vote for this - it is SO anti free market.
Look I work on Wall Street. The economy is terrible and it should be. We have been living on credit was too long. The problem here is we will likely crash and then people will point the finger and say "I told you so."
On the other hand we will likely crash anyway - governments can't control markets.
Politicians should vote for what is right for the Country and tell people we will likely crash but this is RIGHT for the COUNTRY. Simple as that.
The joint statment issued by Obama and McCain show they are both clueless.
SR
Any links to the live feed of the speaking monkey?
But McCain's surprise move, coming two days before the first of three long-scheduled presidential debates, offered him a high-risk chance to reshuffle the political deck heading into the final five weeks of the campaign.
If it works, he could cast himself as a decisive "presidential" leader above partisan politics, devoted to finding a solution to the crisis, eroding if not reversing the advantage that Obama has on the issue of the economy, now the top concern by far on voters' minds.
Yet if McCain's move fails, it could be seen as a desperate gimmick, raise questions about whether he's prone to rash decisions and reinforce Obama's image as the more cool-headed, deliberate leader.
"There is a risk there," said Steven Schier, a political scientist at Carleton College in Minnesota. "There is the potential that he'll seem a little hasty in his actions, that people will think this guy just flies off the handle, that he can't multi-task."
mm,
SH was made law in june '30, about 9 months after the crash. the market was not that far off its peak at that point - it had actually recovered to the levels of late '28.
File:1929 wall street crash graph.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Buying that MBS is like catching a falling knife the way real estate is crashing ... but they that ! It's not their fingers that will get severed.
you may all think I am stupid- but what if they are right?? what if we all lose our jobs or take pay cuts or can't get college loans for jr next year?? any buyers?? should I be scared?
stock_regulator: Agreed, frighteningly clueless.
OT,
Hanesbrands moving sewing production from Central America to Asia. That has got to make our neighbors to the south a bit unhappy.
Hanesbrands to shut nine plants, cut 8,100 jobs - MarketWatch
Letterman
YouTube -
No disrespect, I admire most here. I'm confused why people believe this won't pass. I think it's already baked into the markets (credit and equities); everyone expects an easy money rally off the announcement. Expect a big down day tomorrow.
"Only 371 visitors on hand to watch the speech by America's greatest orator."
vin sculley is good, maybe the best in the business, but he's a little off from his younger days.
"what if we all lose our jobs or take pay cuts or can't get college loans for jr next year?? any buyers?? should I be scared?"
It's too late. All that will likely happen whether this travesty passes or not.
IMO, the debate now is about how long the Greater Depression will last. 1.5 years with no passage, 10 years if it does pass.
Any links to the live feed of the speaking monkey?
CNBC's live feed is here:
CNBC Live Video: Watch the Latest Market Reporting and Analysis - CNBC.com
I'm not sure if they'll carry the speech or not, though.
bgates
the economy was already in the tank ...
the resurgence in stock prices was the manipulation by the banksters just like '07.
"should I be scared?
Catholic girl | 09.24.08 - 8:49 pm | #"
it is too late to be scared,..
Citizen Scotto, yes there is a gasoline shortage in the southeast. I think half the stations in Charlotte have the pumps offline. I've heard it's tight in Nashville too.
Prepare to man the barricades!
"There is a risk there," said Steven Schier, a political scientist at Carleton College in Minnesota. "There is the potential that he'll seem a little hasty in his actions, that people will think this guy just flies off the handle, that he can't multi-task."
Comrade SIFMA Helper | 09.24.08 - 8:49 pm | #
Carlton College - yupper, know the place well & have even heard Schier speak on PUBLIC RADIO... He is EXACTLY the kind of dude I was referring to HERE... O is toast.
"Buying that MBS is like catching a falling knife the way real estate is crashing"
At the prices being bantied around, a lot of senior tranches are probably all but armageddon-proof in their payouts, even tho they might extend some.
But the Historic Undertaking isn't just about senior tranches, is it? And is the non-mtg asset backed securitized stuff still on the table?
Do we have a drinking game lined up for tonight's speech?
michi_doc writes:
In re: shipping containers as homes (from the Assoc of American Railroads website):
Eighteen of 21 carload commodity groups were down from a year ago. Loadings of motor vehicles and equipment fell 25.1 percent while lumber and wood products were down 18.4 percent and primary forest products were off 16.2 percent. On the upside, metallic ores gained 20.1 percent from last year while coal rose 7.0 percent
Port numbers will reflect this and more soon. My guess is since August/July.
I may not have any gas to drive to work here in Atlanta, but at least I have CR to read.
Thank you all.
McCain will go down because he is a Republican ...
Obama already has a 9 point lead and Palin is adding to that all the time ...
Catholic Girl - I have been short these financial companies for almost three years. I don't mean to toot my own horn but I understoon this mess early on. I also work on wall street.
Listen it is very likely that almost ALL assets are overvalued. So let's assume the markets open down 50%. HOw much do you or the average person have in a 401k plan? I don't mean to be rude but its not a lot and any decrease will be more than offset by the LOWER inflation from us not doing this.
Houses will lose value but frankly they should - they will be more affordable. The average person won't have to be a debt slave.
As for losing your job - on the margin a few more people might lose jobs but frankly that will likely happen anyway. We are losing jobs globally because others work for less pay - that is a fact of the global economy. There is nothing $700b can do to stop that.
We would be better off giving the money directly to the people - though that is unAmerican as well.
SR
"Do we have a drinking game lined up for tonight's speech?"
Will anyone still be sober by the time the fool starts speeching?
Anyone have an over-under on minutes into the speech on any of these?
"9-11"
"Iraq"
"Terrorists"
"Recession"
If congress feels the need to throw around $700 billion why fix some bridges, and...New Orleans?
I'm going for a drive. Will possibly listen on the radio. Hope I don't crash.
I can't stand to watch his Deer In Headlights look, as he reads off the teleprompter.
Anyone have an over-under on minutes into the speech on any of these? "9-11" "Iraq" "Terrorists" "Recession"
Within 5 minutes, within 5 minutes, within 5 minutes, never.
Comrade Midwest Product writes:
Do we have a drinking game lined up for tonight's speech?
Comrade Midwest Product | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 8:54 pm | #
If he mentions 'the surge' can I chug a whole bottle of gin? I might need it.
mm,
so you would contend that the global rise of nationalist politics, anti-immigrant and protectionist policies was NOT a significant factor in the depression?
great book, BTW:
1927: high tide of the twenties - Google Books
the one thing people don't talk about is that by instituting a bailout they've changed the loss probabilities associated with these securities (conditional probability). I ramp up my default/loss estimates by 20% should this happen. Homeowners will say F it, the bank is getting bailed out and I'm getting screwed.
Obama already has a 9 point lead
. . . in Connecticut.
The CNBC feed is running Quack Box from Shanghai...
I think it's already baked into the markets (credit and equities); everyone expects an easy money rally off the announcement. Expect a big down day tomorrow.
Persecuted Comrade Anonymouse | Homepage | 09.24.08 - 8:50 pm | #
_______________________-
I agree. That's what last thursday and friday's rally was all about. The details, for what they're worth, hasn't changed the thinking. PEs are still high, valuations are not that attractive yet.
Being and economist is not a hereditary trait, it is not carried in your DNA. Just because his dad was a pretty good economist, does not mean he is. Why he appears anywhere on TV is beyond me, has he ever made a good prediction?
Anyone have an over-under on minutes into the speech on any of these? "9-11" "Iraq" "Terrorists" "Recession"
Hell, I bet 9/11 is mentioned in the first sentence: "biggest crisis since 9/11"...
One thing no one is talking about CFC used to generate about $30 BILLION in crappy loans a month. That is just CFC. Think about that for a min. How far will that $700 billion go? That is under two years of product for CFC.....
SR
Anonymous writes:
If congress feels the need to throw around $700 billion why fix some bridges, and...New Orleans?
Anonymous | 09.24.08 - 8:57 pm | #
Ummmm because bankers don't know how to lay asphalt or pour concrete?
bgates writes:
mm,
so you would contend that the global rise of nationalist politics, anti-immigrant and protectionist policies was NOT a significant factor in the depression?
of course they are ... Smoot Hawley was but a tiny part of the problem yet is held out as a primary facilitator ...
New Thread.
"Ummmm because bankers don't know how to lay asphalt or pour concrete?"
No, but we could use the bankers to strengthen our levees. An earthen levee is 1 foot high by 4 feet wide... We'd conserve good dirt too.
stock_regulator: and the chief cfc loan prick left and started penny mac to buy these loans at dirt cheap prices. double dipping: an american tradition.
... I meant proportionally: for every 1 foot of height, there needs to be 4-feet of width...
Ummmm because bankers don't know how to lay asphalt or pour concrete?
dryfly
They don't need to know how. They just need to lay still while we pour the concrete.
Austin Tex writes:
Anyone have an over-under on minutes into the speech on any of these?
"9-11"
1-5 odds
"Iraq"
1-10 odds
"Terrorists"
Bet cannot be taken
"Recession"
1000-1 odds
...instead it'll be
"Hard Times"
2-1 odds
mm,
i understand the pet peeve about using shorthand. but the flight into nationalism is more than a tiny part of what caused (causes) these things, and protectionism is a natural component of the nationalist mindset.
i'm an isolationist in the political sense, but ignoring the fact that economic isolationism leads to poverty is almost as stupid as ignoring the fact that war leads to inflation.
in any case, i'm pretty confident that less than 1% of the country could tell you what smoot-hawley was, expecting subtle gradations in that understanding is a bit much.
stock_regulator
I was beginning to waffle- those cnbc guys can scare ya- but you're right
my husband has a govt job in fact he is at the un now-
and I am a nurse (always needed)
our 401k has been secure for months thanks to the blogs
no problems with our mortgage
it's just that college loan that worries me- he wanted to maybe go private- but suny is looking good right now
thanks for the perspective-
it doesn't smell right does it
raphael,
I haven't agreed with much you had to say up till now but I am in total agreement that many more people will walk after the bailout. Appealing to morality will not help anymore after the bankers get rescued.
this makes up for the low vol/inverted curve through 2005-2006. bring it on! loving it!
Darkness,
Hands off those shipping containers. A good friend of mine needs them to ship all of his scrap back to Asia. He gets a better price there, and almost free shipping, than he gets in California.
Remember those ships need ballast for the return trip with all those empty containers.
I do buy them, and I bidding them getting 20% returns even if the whole thing gets 6x worse. So take that I'm smarter and richer than you. Haha.
You're a disembodied voice playing Thurston Howell on a blog. It's a comment scroll full of anonymous traders talking their books, we're all great liars here.
I personally have no great riches, nor do I aspire to them, although I am blessed by God with a wealth of friends, good health and a wonderful mate. Good luck with the Mammon worship, it seems more than a little pointless to me, but you're probably nothing more than a preening product of unexamined prejudices.
I don't know if you're sharp. Not o sharp that you can see the writing on the wall. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to watch the Decider fuck the country up.
is Bush looking scared stiff?
I think Bush just threw Greenspan under the bus...
yep scared stiff
Fear mongering by Bush.....
His eyes are dead...doll's eyes, bird's pitiless, uncomprehending eyes...
buy them at current LOW prices - that's what Bush said.. is he lying ?
-K
Talk about bringing on a guy with a low approval rating to vouch for this plan....yea..rite...we get it now, since your highness has spoke
Add Bill Heard Chevrolet to the dead pool - thanks to GMAC.
Byzantine_Ruins: Your posts initiated the response. What was your expectation?
It's your choice to believe the arguments I've made or others have made. If you "call" people out what do you expect?
I'm just trying to shed light on a situation that is being misrepresented by media or the uninformed based upon my profession/expertise. It's your choice to disbelieve that I am of merit or not. Regardless I do love the disparate views on this blog. Cheers.
Got to love it when that Areva commercial comes on CNBC. Everybody get up and dance! Dance I said!
Can we all stop talking about the $700B bailout. It's an unlimited amount of money, but no more than $700B at any one time. The $700B was arbitrary and has nothing to do with the total amount to be spent. Just large enough to scare the hell out of people, but not the total number in order to avoid mass heart attacks across the country.
This is not about JUST MBS!!!!!!!!!!!