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owwww. gentle please. your trying to park a semi in a compact space...
Good night Irene.
still 5 more days to go on this
)
Love the elevator music. Makes me feel like I'm in line at a JPM branch waiting to close my account.
What are the odds Wachovia is next? My uncle was asking me tonight what he should do, I told him to move his money to the Federal Credit Union here in town. He's closing his Wachovia account tomorrow...
this is the equivalent of the antrax attacks during the debate of the patriot bill
sign the bailout bill or your bank gets it !
these chess moves are a thing of beauty
Financial Market manipulation investigation:
Yahoo! News
.
"What are the odds Wachovia is next?"
U.S. seen probing if derivatives walloped banks
| Reuters
Time bombs ticking with this den of thieves.
After I had thought about the Michael Douglas funny tidbit at the UN, it got me thinking about a "Wall Street" film sequel idea. Yes, I would love to write a movie script!
Here goes:
After doing jail time for his offences in "Wall Street", Gordon Gekko is released and after some initial resistance to backing him, he finds financial backing at the dawn of the Nasdaq Tech boom. Gekko becomes a master of the classic "pump and dump" tech IPO mania and makes billions. His ego gets him into trouble during the big crash, and at the films end he is broke and dejected.
Last scene: Gekko is working as a bank clerk (circa year 2002) when he is approached by upper management. They ask Gekko "What do you think about the possibility of more aggressive mortgage lending?" Gekko's eyes light up as he sees his way back to success. Film ends with headlines and film form today's debacle.
I think it would be a hit! Plus it would elucidate all the silly excess that was the tech boom/bust and the current real estate meltdown.
What do you think?
Dimon: The only problem was the bad assets.
No kidding ...
My guess is that either Downey is next or else Shelia will start serial closing little guys like National City and Affinity.
Comrade Bagholders,
Your friend?
Weeeel...I'm off. And don't think it has been a little slice of heaven...because it hasn't.
Nostrovia,
JPM is taking over WAMU.
$8B common stock offering.
Is there a working url to the conference call?
They are making a sequel already.. "money never sleeps"
JJL writes:
After I had thought about the Michael Douglas funny tidbit at the UN, it got me thinking about a "Wall Street" film sequel idea. Yes, I would love to write a movie script!
I like how he said he would keep strong capital ratios. I mean, no, he's steering toward failure. =)
So does this mean the world is a better place?
Not buying unsubordinated debt or preferred. $20B in liabilities "left behind".
How? How? HOW?
CNBC, FWIW, bailout poll running 20:1 against.
They are wiping out debt and equity
So WM files for BK? (the holding company)
I meant, "subordinated debt", of course.
JPM now largest depository in the U.S.
OTS 08-046 - Washington Mutual Acquired by JPMorgan Chase
FOR RELEASE: CONTACT: William Ruberry
Thursday, Sept. 25, 2008 (202) 906-6677
Cell (202) 368-7727
Washington, DC Washington Mutual Bank, the $307 billion thrift institution headquartered in Seattle, was acquired today by JPMorgan Chase, the Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS) announced.
The change will have no impact on the banks depositors or other customers. Business will proceed uninterrupted and bank branches will open on Friday morning as usual.
Washington Mutual, or WaMu, specialized in providing home mortgages, credit cards and other retail lending products and services. WaMu became an OTS-regulated institution on December 27, 1988 and grew through acquisitions between 1996 and 2002 to become the largest savings association supervised by the agency. As of June 30, 2008, WaMu had more than 43,000 employees, more than 2,200 branch offices in 15 states and $188.3 billion in deposits.
The housing market downturn had a significant impact on the performance of WaMus mortgage portfolio and led to three straight quarters of losses totaling $6.1 billion, noted OTS Director John Reich.
Pressure on WaMu intensified in the last three months as market conditions worsened. An outflow of deposits began on September 15, 2008, totaling $16.7 billion. With insufficient liquidity to meet its obligations, WaMu was in an unsafe and unsound condition to transact business. The OTS closed the institution and appointed the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) as receiver. The FDIC held the bidding process that resulted in the acquisition by JPMorgan Chase.
Customer questions regarding the institution, including questions about federal deposit insurance coverage, should be directed to the FDIC at 1-877-ASK-FDIC. WaMu customers with questions can also call the bank's service center at 1-800-788-7000.
Attachment: Fact Sheet
Not buying unsubordinated debt or preferred. $20B in liabilities "left behind".
Broken off in the taxpayer's ass. =)
link is in the CR post
To many posts, too fast. Posters are confused. We need to come together on a commen thread.
JPMorgan Chase:
some night laugh
I like this: Hank Paulson is Colonel Kurtz | Crooks and Liars
Colonel Paulson !!!
Comrade Bagholders,
Greed is good? F..K, theft (via fraudulent conveyence) is better.
Nostrovia,
Rob [coinz!] Dawg writes:
My guess is that either Downey is next or else Shelia will start serial closing little guys like National City and Affinity.
little guys
There going to drag this out.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Recent Deposit Flows
Because of adverse events in the financial markets, material outflows began on
September 15, 2008. Coupled with further rating agency downgrades of Washington
Mutual Inc. (WMI, the top-tier holding company) and Washington Mutual Bank
(WMB or the Bank), the Bank experienced a net deposit loss of $16.7 billion through
September 24, 2008.
Other Financial Details (as of June 30, 2008)
Total deposits: $188.3 billion
Brokered deposits: $34.04 billion
Total borrowings: $82.9 billion primarily comprising Federal Home Loan Bank
advances of $58.4 billion and $7.8 billion of subordinated debt
Loans held: $118.9 billion in single-family loans held for investment - this includes
$52.9 billion in payment option ARMs and $16.05 billion in subprime mortgage
loans
Home Equity Lines of Credit (HELOCs): $53.4 billion
Credit Card Receivables: $10.6
Madden Wisdom. "When you have lots of branches, that lets you grow your business."
From the fact sheet.
Back office. No shiny Porsche drivers there
Sept. 26 (Bloomberg) -- HSBC Holdings Plc, Europe's largest bank by market value, cut 1,100 jobs in its global banking and markets division as the deepening financial crisis threatens to crimp earnings.
The reductions in the division's back-office operations amount to about 4 percent of HSBC's wholesale banking workforce,
Thanks - I was fumbling and seeing no link
so who exactly would purchase unsecured debt these days?
wow. equity holders i get.
the bond desks are going to flip right out now.
no deal is the same. what's the term? clusterf*ck?
JPM now too big to fail
Calculated Risk writes:
Dimon: The only problem was the bad assets.
Dimon pissed that bankster inc had to pay ... all the other deals they got paid to take !
watchout jaime the bond boys are comin' ...
So, is this a good deal for JP Morgan? They're buying up all the good stuff(deposits, certain locations), and WE are getting the Crap Loans, etc.
Comrade Bagholder Yoringe,
"some night laugh"
Naw, Colonel Paulsonklink.
Nostrovia,
10% of branches to be closed.
rowen writes:
so who exactly would purchase unsecured debt these days?
rowen | 09.25.08 - 9:31 pm | #
--
you and your neighbours.
rowen writes:
so who exactly would purchase unsecured debt these days?
TARP will !!
Check out page 16. Look at the expected house price declines.
Also, close about 10% of branches.
I dont think we are getting crap loans.
I think crap loans just go dead. Investors get zilch.
crispy&cole --
JPM now too big to fail
OK that was funny.
Issuing $8 billion in common stock...
Getting 160 billion in credit card outstandings--is that good? I thought the default rates were rising on revolving accounts?
oy...I need a drink....
Total loan servicing: $689.7 billion total loans serviced, including $442.7 billion in
loans serviced for others and $26.3 billion of subprime mortgage loans
Non-performing assets: $11.6 billion, including $3.23 billion payment option ARMs and $3.0 billion subprime mortgage loans
Fact sheet link
Can we get a cheatsheet of homeprice projections over to Hanky Panky, ASAP?
JPM now aquired:
Chase
Bank One
Bear
WaMu
who's next?
This reminds me of reading the Mayaguez rescue traffic. A lot of hasty typing, mispellings, and freakin execiting.
"JPM now too big to fail"
President Bush explained last night how important it is not to let entities get too big to fail.
Perhaps he will remind us again after GS absorbs WB.
Is their belly getting full yet?
cr, yeah, wow.
58% estimate peak to trough for "severe" recession.
CR = "Concentrated Risk"
Getting 160 billion in credit card outstandings--is that good? I thought the default rates were rising on revolving accounts?
TBTF. The more precarious the situation the better, easier to blackmail your regulator.
So they only took on the debt they had to--secured debt. The unsecured is left with the holding company.
Going to have to downplay bonuses for couple years at JPM tho
This has to be bad PR for bailout. So many people are getting shafted in this deal - will remind people that they hate Wall Street.
Nothing to see here.
Missed Information writes:
JPM now aquired:
Chase
Bank One
Bear
WaMu
who's next?
~ The Fed will become a wholly owned subsidiary of bankster inc ...
TED spread still over 3....
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=.TEDSP%3AIND
.
say what you want
that was no nothingburger
Pg 16 of what
I wonder what this says about JPM's thoughts on the bailout. If they thought they could get anything out of the troubled assets from the Paulson plan, they'd have taken them, albeit at a crazy low price.
"that was no nothingburger"
ha, ha, ha. Banker needs to come back and explain the brilliance of all the top executives again.
JPM stole this...wow! I hope the CDS blow up in someones face and they sue JPM!
"Wow. They expect 44% peak-to-trough price declines in California (58% if severe recession)."
Oooohh That'll leave a mark!
haha crispy, imagine!
Great rate on this bond
Order Information As of: 09/25/2008, 04:02 PM
Account 329642975
Action Buy
CUSIP 93933VAS7
Description WASH MUT BK FA CA GLBL MTN BE 5.500% 01/15/2013 FR SB
Quantity 10
Coupon 5.500
Maturity Date 01/15/2013
Trade Date 09/26/2008
Settlement Date 10/01/2008
Order Type Market**.
Time in Force Fill or Kill
Trade Type Cash
Offer Price 32.000
Price w/ Concession 32.100
Effective Yield 39.613664
Accrued Interest 116.11
58%, and prices have dropped perhaps half that.
The good news, is the government is trying to buy up everything, and keep prices stable. And we all know that's bound to work.
Comrade Bagholders,
Rename JP Morgan:
Mr. JP Creosote:
YouTube - Mr Creosote (Monty Python)
Nostrovia,
Note:I've posted the portfolio on the blog post.
WIDER AUTHORITY
But the SEC is determined to do something about market rumors in the credit derivatives markets. In a speech on Tuesday, Chairman Christopher Cox said there are "significant opportunities ... for manipulation" in the market, which he sees as "completely lacking in transparency and completely unregulated."
Cox urged Congress to provide the SEC with the authority to regulate credit derivatives. New York regulators on Monday argued that a segment of the credit derivatives market should be regulated as insurance contracts.
The SEC said late last week it was expanding its probe into market manipulation of financial institutions' shares to include credit derivatives. On Thursday, a source said more than two dozen hedge funds, broker-dealers, and institutional investors has been ordered to turn over information about their trades.
worried about loan loss portfolio, page 17 shows 8 billion dollar reversal of loss provisions to boost hit to net assets and consideration?
Well, FWIW, in California, we're at 7.7% unemployment right now.
If you jump ahead to slide 16
"severe recession" or half way through mortgage losses
$54 billion in writedowns left. Their best case scenario has $36 billion left
"Mutual Morgan Chase One Bear."
Thanks, Tonto.
Any word on the Credit Card Portfolio, they have some 19billion oustanding
Why do the Japanese like this?
CR,
Does the 25% decline for national prices mean that in the best case scenario, we are already there?
You guys sound you just finished the weirdest session of group sex I've ever encountered.
So who's smoking cigarettes?
Yowza.
JPM taking $30 billion write down on loans ... this is the cost of the transaction.
Cox urged Congress to provide the SEC with the authority to regulate credit derivatives
pfffff
day late dollar short
as usual
A 78% rise is wiped out by a 44% fall.
A 138% rise is wiped out by a 58% fall.
Always place a trailing stop on your house.
CBS releases most damaging Sarah Palin clip yet (humour)
Is the SEC going to prosecute WM for the statements they released in the last week about how solid they were?
Anonymous --
Great rate on this bond
!
Hilarious. Pick a screen name; stick around...
Is $30 billion some magic number or something?
when does Anti- trust kick in?? is there any oversight??
page 16, should have a depression colum
"how wrong can we be?"
dunno, somewhere between "really" and "totally"
BR, I think we are down 18% at the end of Q2. Case-Shiller
Best Wishes
Is $30 billion some magic number or something?
Bond Girl | 09.25.08 - 9:41 pm | #
you know the Dolar Store?
Like that.
But different.
64% peak-to-trough decline for Florida. Only if current levels are the new peak.
Crispy and cole:
"Is the SEC going to prosecute WM for the statements they released in the last week about how solid they were?
"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! In the words of Tommy from Goodfellas, you are a funny guy (and girl if a team).
JPMORGAN CHASE & CO SEES LOSSES OF $54 BILLION FROM WASHINGTON MUTUAL HOME LENDING ASSETS FROM DEC 31, 2007 IN SEVERE RECESSION SCENARIO
Wait, I just got home. Am I understanding this right?
JPMC gets to acquire all of WaMu's desirable assets but doesn't acquire it's liabilities?
wtf? If so, I bet WaMu's creditors are thrilled.
Yoringe writes:
when does Anti- trust kick in?? is there any oversight??
you are watching the oversight ...
the oversight of bankster inc ...
$30 billion on whose books? They paid nothing for this from the FDIC and assumed some assets (loans) and liabilities (deposits)?
Comrade Bagholders,
WaMu is only wafer thin...
Nostrovia,
crispy&cole writes:
Is the SEC going to prosecute WM for the statements they released in the last week about how solid they were?
They were solid. Even Shit gets solid after awhile.
The projections are up in the post.
Severe recession $54 billion in losses, 8% unemployment rate.
Was this done to put pressure on negotiations over the bailout bill?
You know, look what will happen if you don't act fast!
I think right column on 16 is most realistic at this time.
LOL @ "anti-trust", that's so yesterday...
color me baffled
why does jp morgan see losses if it didn;t pick up the nasty liabilities
totally confused now
THIS is how you deleverage. No screwing around.
Sell your assets, keep the money, let someone else figure out the rest.
USA! USA! USA!
"Financial Market manipulation investigation:"
No need to look any farther then our own government.
Bond Girl --
Funny, isn't it, that the net assets just happen to exactly match the projected writedown of $31B...
CR writes: Wow. They expect 44% peak-to-trough price declines in California.
No problemo. Already there in my San Diego neighborhood.
oops I mean
They are going to book NOTHING! WOW! They will have a net of zero on their books and have a shit load of upside.
THEY f'n stole this!
CA unemployment @ 7.7% already:
404 - Not Found - sacbee.com
CR,
Thanks -- looks like the composite peak was 226 and currently around 179.2, ~20%
Witchcraft...
YouTube - Sarah Palin Gets Protection From Witches
What does it say the percentage is during a Depression?
Jeebus. They now have $2 trillion in assets.
man i must be stupid - i still don't get how they can book nothing...
matt writes:
THIS is how you deleverage. No screwing around.
Sell your assets, keep the money, let someone else figure out the rest.
USA! USA! USA!
rotflol !
Speed Racer writes:
Was this done to put pressure on negotiations over the bailout bill?
You know, look what will happen if you don't act fast!
Speed Racer | 09.25.08 - 9:44 pm | #
I don't think it will have the effect they want.... I mean, people understand losing their money, but they are more likely to blame someone for it than fear an event because of it. This should make people hate bankers even more than they do now.
CR, would you guess JPM is being conservative, aggressive, or neutral on their home price decline estimates?
My thinking is aggressive - that is, estimating large declines - but I could see it the other way, too.
can we get a live video of fiddle players?
Rome is calling the Fire Department.
Capitalism seems to be working just fine for JPMorgan.
What's the hellabaloo going on in Congress about again?
So what happened to the debt holders in the holding company?
largest CDS event evah?
WILL CDS BE TRIGGERED ?
HOW MUCH CDS IS OUTSTANDING FOR WAMU ?
Please Help Me Understand! writes:
So what happened to the debt holders in the holding company?
They are fucked; hope you are not one of them.
How bad is the damage to the taxpayers on this one?
Did JP Morgan get a good deal?
CRVIX going up
Please Help Me Understand! writes:
So what happened to the debt holders in the holding company?
Please Help Me Understand! | 09.25.08 - 9:46 pm | #
--
they don't have time to grab diapers and resort to tampons.
Comrade Bagholders,
Mind melting. This must be an illegal fraudulent convayence. Where's a lawyer when you need one?
Nostrovia,
Did JP Morgan get a good deal?
Fuck, yes.
So after IMB & WM collapsing, who's left to offer up Pay Option ARMs. Oh, WB!
Net 'em all out and lets start with a fresh sheet.
Anonymous writes:
"Financial Market manipulation investigation:"
No need to look any farther then our own government.
round up the usual suspects !
the shorts , the gold bugs and the bloggers !
This is why the bailout is NOT needed. The market will take care of itself...Jamie Dimon is going to make a mint of this deal
"So they only took on the debt they had to--secured debt. The unsecured is left with the holding company."
So, is this something that hits FDIC, or are stockholders and bondholders the bagholders?
the deal of the century - even Buffett is impressed
I love how they refer to an $8B capital raise -- tomorrow morning -- as "topping up".
I thought "topping up" was when I add another dime's worth of gas to my car.
Severe recession $54 billion in losses, 8% unemployment rate.
8% unemployment seems a bit optimistic for a "severe" recession.
Does nobody remember what the world was like before the late 90's?
"This should make people hate bankers even more than they do now."
I hate these bastards! More I doub't it.
a. what is the outstanding debt ?
b. will CDS be triggered ?
So what happened to the debt holders in the holding company?
Same thing that happens to all unsecured and junior bondholders in a liquidation. They fight over the scraps.
Please Help Me Understand!, mostly wiped out. Shareholders are done.
Eric, somewhat reasonable projections. I'll post on this tomorrow.
best wishes.
Comrade Misean,
There will be plenty of lawyers.
Talk about a fast talkin' act
News still to hit CNN, AP, or Reuters.
ow that was a quick pizza party!
"HOW MUCH CDS IS OUTSTANDING FOR WAMU ?"
Hmmmm, another Lehman-type domino effect in coming weeks?
OK - I'ma gonna buy some of those 5% WaMu things. They are now a part of a mile high Katamari ball rolling over suburbs and snaggin homes and trucks.
Naa Na Na Na Na Na Naa Na Naa Na Na Na Na Naaaaaa.... KATAMARI DAMACI!!
Questions beginning on conference call
WILL CDS BE TRIGGERED ?
HOW MUCH CDS IS OUTSTANDING FOR WAMU ?
So ... the debt holders in WAMU's holding company were insured and now they must be paid?
So that's not JPM's problem I take it.
"Same thing that happens to all unsecured and junior bondholders in a liquidation. They fight over the scraps."
Bingo. And we all know how valuable (used) toilet paper can be.
Uh, I got a question. Do I still get free checks?
cracker,
"can we get a live video of fiddle players?"
OK:
YouTube - Bond - James Bond theme
Nostrovia,
TulipsAllOverAgain writes:
Capitalism seems to be working just fine for JPMorgan.
it's called banksterism ... been around for centuries ... this is the American appellation ...
.
Please Help Me Understand!, mostly wiped out.
I realize the debt holders are wiped out by this deal. Completely obliterated. I guess what I'm really asking is...do they have legal recourse?
BAC had to spend a lot of dough on CFC & MER. JPM has a sightly more adept leader for operating in a bear market, doncha think ?
perhaps JPM was overexposed and THAT is the true cost of this transaction.
or, more likely, NOBODY KNOWS! ah cds'. tricky business, that.
page #9 on the presentations is interesting
If the next FMV per FAS 157 of WM is zero. Where is the SEC? Clearly WM filed a false and misleading 10Q recently!
there is no WM anymore.
whats so hard to understand,
meltdown friday gets solved by 250 bailout sunday....
the volatility is designed to kill the CDS, which were designed for long term trends....
its short the bulliten board, throw a dart, and short.
Comrades,
I'm celebrating by not paying my mortgage this month (it's with WaMu.)
The money will be better spent on an electric scooter here in Atlanta (we still have no gas.)
Are they keeping the slogan?
WOO HOO!
maybe drinking wasn't a good plan....
Mucho layoffs. 400-500 branch closures. The 10% was for the combined company.
the bond desks are going to flip right out now.
no deal is the same. what's the term? clusterf*ck?
matt
Wow (again)! Talk about bond/debt holders taking the full JT.
Crispy, 'JP too big to fail' is funny!
and true....
'Brass Balls' should describe their board.
10% of the branches closing will sting...
Got Popcorn?
Neil
They can call the new bank (M)Oregon Mutual
cracker writes:
there is no WM anymore.
On the conference call, he said they were keeping some branches with the Washington Mutual name, and converting some to JP Morgan branches.
This is, like, the biggest bank failure in US history, right? And it was just handled with (apparently) minimal harm to tax payers, right?
So why do we need Paulson's plan?
"I'm celebrating by not paying my mortgage this month (it's with WaMu.)"
Screw'em
Summary, I think
They after paying $1.9bn to FDIC, raising $8bn in capital to meet OTS req
They have $31 in assets, are marking down $36bn in lending losses (the best case scenario)
If as expected, there is a further 20% decline nationally in house prices, (their worst case scenario) the writedowns add up to $54bn
Merger costs are $1.5bn up front, another $0.5bn by 2011
So the price of the expansion is projected at $8.9bn to $26.9b
Persecuted Comrade Anonymouse writes:
Uh, I got a question. Do I still get free checks?
Persecuted Comrade Anonymouse | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 9:50 pm | #
--
hahaha gold!
those old white ass bankers are sipping brandy and pissing themselves right now!
Why all the angst and suprise? Anyone that can read a balance sheet knew this was coming.
It was just when and who. The system is better off with this.
I know, doing onesies is like being pecked to death by a duck.
cracker,
"can we get a live video of fiddle players?"
Nah, here's what you want: Nuttin but Stringz, give 'em a chance these guys rock
YouTube -
bearly writes:
BAC had to spend a lot of dough on CFC & MER. JPM has a sightly more adept leader for operating in a bear market, doncha think ?
bearly
JPM is bankster central, they've been getting paid for every deal they do. They have the Fed in their pocket ... Geitner will be our next head of Treasury ...
FDIC'S BAIR SAYS WASHINGTON MUTUAL IS THE LARGEST EVER BANK FAILURE
Misean....I know you are not disengenuious.
for that I'll call you.
Commisar.
danke,
this is out of control, Ive been navigating the meltdown for almost 18 months....in fact I doubled my money on WM, long the 16th out the 19th on the global short cover rally...
It's funny how much our government relies on JP Morgan to do its dirty work.
For those curious, WaMu's total assets were about $343bn 1 year ago. Last 10q was like $220bn if my memory serves me right
Wamu bondholder theme music
It's posted
FDIC: Press Releases - PR-85-2008 9/25/2008
Rome is calling the Fire Department.
cracker
Ever read/see fahrenheit 451? The fire department is out there with the flame throwers.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
ps, 58%?!? Holy crap! I thought I was bearish! And here's your JT!
Citizen Scotto is no longer a plebe in my book.
gracias.
4 alarm fire in the futures...
Japan seems to be holding up.
wouldn't The End by The Doors be more appropriate?
or is that what the bond desks will be playing back to them?
Does nobody remember what the world was like before the late 90's?
Nobody
Outside of a few sicko bloggers? No.
Take you pill now.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
So, I guess the world is not going to come to an end.
Who is getting hurt here? Seems like JP Morgan still could get hurt, if things really deteriorate. Do they honestly know that they won't?
Bond Girl writes:
It's funny how much our government relies on JP Morgan to do its dirty work.
What dirty work ? They get paid on every deal!
The Fed was too embarrassed to pay Dimon on this one so they had to screw the stock and bond holders ...!
Mayo: How did this work with FDIC?
A: Ask the FDIC.
Will this use the Paulson Plan?
A: We didn't really do this for the TARP. The TARP will be a net plus. We might not use TARP, but it will lift value of assets.
ABC News' George Stephanopoulos Reports: Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson fears the Wall Street bailout deal is falling apart after a chaotic White House meeting, sources say.
Paulson walked into the room where Democrats were caucusing after today's meeting at the White House and pleaded with them, "Please don't blow this up."
Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., chair of the House Financial Services Committee was livid saying, "Don't say that to us after all we've been through!"
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said, "We're not the ones trying to blow this up; it's the House Republicans."
"I know, I know," Paulson replied.
John McCain and the republicans playing politics on a time of crisis.
Daily Kos: Breaking: Hank Paulson Agrees Republicans Trying To Blow Up Deal! (Updated x1)
Why do we need the $700B bailout again?
Sounds like we just spent a good chunk of it.
It's funny how much our government relies on JP Morgan to do its dirty work.
Same as it has always been. The original J.P. Morgan had quite the reputation for creating the havoc, and then coming in for the "rescue."
Makes me wonder what JPM's net CDS position on WM's failure was?
This is, like, the biggest bank failure in US history, right? And it was just handled with (apparently) minimal harm to tax payers, right?
Indeed. I didn't realize they were letting the BHC sink. WTG FDIC but man, the market's gonna feel that default in the morning.
cracker writes:
Citizen Scotto is no longer a plebe in my book.
Thank you sir, may I have another?
Screw Kos. Those guys were against the bailout when it was first announced. Now they're for it because the Dems are.
Sheep all.
JPM is bankster central, they've been getting paid for every deal they do. They have the Fed in their pocket ... Geitner will be our next head of Treasury ...
mmckinl | 09.25.08 - 9:54 pm | #
They are 1 of 2 banks to have a seat on the board of the New York Fed. Of course they get all the good deals.CORRECTION: Fuld is no longer on the board
Board of Directors - New York's Main Office - Federal Reserve Bank of New York
Max are you an assclown ?
Yes
Sounds like we just spent a good chunk of it.
Where? So far taxpayer liability in this deal appears to be $0.
Makes me wonder what JPM's net CDS position on WM's failure was?
rowen | 09.25.08 - 9:59 pm | #
--
If we knew, we would know what this really cost.
Makes me wonder what JPM's net CDS position on WM's failure was?
rowen | 09.25.08 - 9:59 pm | #
JPM and Merrill were the only 2 banks to let individuals access the CDS market if that's of any interest
for th un learned-
JT-Josua Tree
I found neil on the HBB!!!
JPMC-BS-WM rools the wurld! To prove it, they just upped my Chase credit card interest rate (eff. Sept. 20th) to 29.9% and I've never missed a payment, been late, nada. When I called, they said, "Well, we've never liked you!" or words to that effect.
That's how they'll be treating y'all soon enough. I say, boycott 'em.
THEY f'n stole this!
crispy&cole
But the FDIC/OTS got bailed out from having to deal with 2600 branches.
km4 writes:
Max are you an assclown ?
Yes
"Paulson walked into the room where Democrats were caucusing after today's meeting at the White House and pleaded with them, "Please don't blow this up."
Go republicans! Anyone. Anyone who remembers what the point of it all is. Go go go.
WaMu had a great model. Build cookie cutter deposit taking branches, make loans to people who couldn't pay in a Western bubble market. Fund flippers and strippers and rely on bought and paid for rating agencies for file stuffing.
Anyone that didn't see this coming by at least 04 was blinder than the Governor of NY.
Isn't it a 1.9 billion plus for the FDIC??
So what happens to the bad assets?
Does anyone recall if Pimco has exposure to WM debt? I want Gross to suffer
Peasant Darkness writes:
"Paulson walked into the room where Democrats were caucusing after today's meeting at the White House and pleaded with them, "Please don't blow this up."
Go republicans! Anyone. Anyone who remembers what the point of it all is. Go go go.
As the late, great Jerry Reid said...."Hello Boys, Welcome To The World's Biggest Game Of Chicken."
Mike writes:
So what happens to the bad assets?
Mike | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 10:02 pm | #
--
i'm going to turn them into the most delicious scones for the bondholders to enjoy while they sit around pissed off.
Who were the big WaMu debt holders? I'm assuming that they are getting Nancy Kerriganed in the knees? Who will be holding their collective knees, crying on the ice tomorrow?
I can barely keep up!
Max writes:
Mucho layoffs. 400-500 branch closures. The 10% was for the combined company.
The articles I can find cite 25 Wamu branch closures. How many branches did Wamu have today?
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Vice Chm GS - It will take 4-5Trillion dollars to settle this mess...on BBC
God help us one and all
So what happens to the bad
assets?
As Jamie Dimon just said, "we're not taking the holding company".
Litigation exposures??? "left behind". The gall.
Nasdaq Crash vs. Mortgage Crash - Who Holds Equals Who Gets Bailed Out
The technology stock boom was massive. Known also as the Dot Com Bust, this little tidbit of history yields a lesson.
The Nasdaq crashed from 5048 to a low of about 1200 in the time span of February 2000 to September 2002. Around 5 TRILLION dollars (the dollar was strong then!) was wiped out.
Now ask yourself: Any bailouts? Any emergency government meetings? Any "relief" for the losers? I thought not.
See, the difference here is that individual private investors held the majority of the toxic tech garbage. The taxpayer was already on the hook as they bought into the mania. The banks and brokerages had already pocketed their commission profits, and made out like devils. the Nasdaq today stands at around 2100, still only half the high and no "relief" for the small guy?
Now the banks themselves hold all the crap paper, and now the government would like to stick it to us again? I mean you get hit no matter what!
Wake up folks. Oppose this bailout!
WOW
They were caught off guard by the question asking if they valued the price of litigation regarding fraudulent mortgage lending.
There was 10 sec of silence and then he said JPM didn't take over the holding company and they feel good about that
EvilHenryPaulson
prediction ... Phil Gramm will not be sec of treas come hell or high water ...
geitner will, unless we here at CR broadcast it too much ...
i'm going to turn them into the most delicious scones for the bondholders to enjoy while they sit around pissed off.
Classic.
It would be funny to learn what obligations (CDS or otherwise) JPM was tangled up in WaMu. That would fall under the screw things up / appear to come to the rescue category.
"We don't know and we don't care" - sums up so much about how we got here!
Mr. Dimon saying goodnight.
As someone who cares strongly about human rights, I hope this signals the release of those poor bankers from that inhumane pen they've been keeping them in.
Pizza Time!!!
Not taking holding company, just asset deal. All lawuits will be against holding company.
Basically the took the deposits and loan portfolio - and the writedowns will be $30 billion to $54 billion - and that is the cost of the acquisition. This is a steal.
Holding company shareholders are wiped out as are most bondholders.
What's that smoking crater over there? The bondholders and shareholders were just there a second ago.
The Death Star is quite operational.
It seems to me that THE PLAN right now is to remove counterparty risk by obviously removing one side of the counterparty (See BSC, CFC, LEH, MER, etc). What happens when only the lone bag holder is left?
That's how they'll be treating y'all soon enough. I say, boycott 'em.
As part of a little personal anthro survey, I've been following a number of debt-reduction blogs. (Boring as heck, like reality tv without the hyped drama.) Interesting side effect of those jacked up rates is they are often the stated impetuous for a debtor to get their act together. You'd think 16% would do it (sure as heck would for me, but I can do math...) but it takes a rate that'd make a loan shark blush to get some people incensed and, like you, determined to get their balance to zero. (better late then never)
Also, the CC companies are banking (pun intended) on their deregulated interest rate party coming to an abrupt end around jan 21 and are milking things for all its worth until then.
I wouldn't be surprised to see rates of 33% or more before Christmas time. There is literally no downside to shaking their customers down for a few more drinks before the bartender closes the open bar.
AllenM has his tag Someday...
I want We don't know and we don't care
"Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational battle station!
Fire at will commander!"
I'm calling bullshit on this. WAMU couldn't last until Friday? No way! The government did this on purpose to scare congress into passing the bailout bill.
Time for a reality check, Max:
Kos' last word so far on the bailout:
How fracked up is it that I'm rooting for House Republicans to derail this thing? There's precedence for it -- last year's comprehensive immigration reform bill.
And if nothing else, the intense national opposition to this piece of crap seems to have bought us some time.
CR,
I am depressed. An institution is failing and instead of a BK, someone is just taking credits and leaving behind liabilities ?
What was the question that was answered with "We don't know and we don't care"?
Lee,
You are quick
"What were the other bids for Wamu"?
Politico says Paulson actually was down on one knee, begging Dems not to blow up the plan. Pelosi said, "I didn't know you were Catholic."
Comrade Clueless Dufus writes:
What was the question that was answered with "We don't know and we don't care"?
Comrade Clueless Dufus | 09.25.08 - 10:09 pm | #
--
what was the second best bid for wamu.
I am depressed. An institution is failing and instead of a BK, someone is just taking credits and leaving behind liabilities ?
Better them than the FDIC, i.e., me, dealing with the whole mess. The FDIC isn't there for the bank, just the account holders.
So if the biggest thrift, and the biggest bank failure in the history of the world can go bust with barely a wimper, whay again do we need a $2 trillion dollar (lets be real) bailout deal?
Wow! Now people may get an idea about how long it may take to "hold to maturity."
CR,
If you are going to do a summary, don't miss the one point they hammered over and over.
They expect to generate $12bn in new earnings (or sales?) over the next 3 years to offset further write downs
I think it's a great deal strategically, and there is no way they won't be able to stay on their feet for the next 3 years and housing regains stability
Interesting though, BofA and JPM are 2 giants now and I think it raises the pressure on Citi
Holding company shareholders are wiped out as are most bondholders.
Calculated Risk
new bailout template ... banksters get the good stuff and everybody else just gets stuffed ...
Knowing that Banksterville is now insolvent Jamie Dimon and the Fed are plundering the banking system ... Bond Boys be damned !
Barney Frank LOL
So Wall Street thought it could cheat washington out of 700B. Washington is showing that they are more corrupt than Wall street.
I love it. Justice served.
Lee writes:
I'm calling bullshit on this. WAMU couldn't last until Friday? No way! The government did this on purpose to scare congress into passing the bailout bill.
Lee | 09.25.08 - 10:09 pm | #
I do not think the feds did this ahead of schedule because of the bailout bill, but because they had to actively participate in negotiating something - anything - because FDIC not big enough to handle the whole dang thing. That is not to say this will be unrelated to the bailout if it comes to pass.
is anyone else happy because a bad bank failed, but sad because a bad bank made money?
So how do the bondholders get cut off? Were the bonds issued by the holding company? If so how did the money end up in the subsidiary?
Let the bodies hit the floor, with musical company:
YouTube - Drowning Pool - Bodies (Let The Bodies Hit The Floor)
"Who were the big WaMu debt holders? I'm assuming that they are getting Nancy Kerriganed in the knees?"
Bill Gross I hope. Fiendish laugh.
"if the biggest thrift...can go bust with barely a wimper, whay again do we need a...bailout deal?"
Call or FAX you Senatorial and Congressional Units tomorrow and ask them.
I know they didn't buy the holding company, but what right does the holding company have to sell of the assets and not get anything in return for them (the money went to the FDIC).
Or was this a simultaneous takeover and sale by the FDIC?
Bond Girl,
But WAMU had such little liquidity that it couldn't wait until Friday?
Who would loan money to a bank holding co. now??
OK, I'll be ready for 33% interest. Luckily, the balance is just 1000+ so can be taken care of quickly. Still, hate to see any bank do that to their customers. Nasty business.
We need to establish a range. One, only one ping Yevgeny.
So how do the bondholders get cut off? Were the bonds issued by the holding company? If so how did the money end up in the subsidiary?
Having bad flashbacks from my corporate finance class in law school...
*SHELBY SAYS HAD INTERESTING MEETING' WITH PRESIDENT BUSH
*SHELBY SAYSI DON'T THINK WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT'
*SHELBY SAYS WE OUGHT TO LOOK AT ALTERNATIVES' TO PAULSON PLAN
*SHELBY SAYSWE HAVEN'T GOTTEN AGREEMENT' ON RESCUE PLAN
*SHELBY SAYS THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT OPINIONS ON BAILOUT
OT: China Approves Short Selling, Margin Lending to Develop Market
China Allows Short Sales, Margin Loans to Help Market (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
Who is the capitalist now?
Breaking news on MSNBC
Barney Frank Talking
Bill Gross I hope. Fiendish laugh.
Anonymous |
Bill Gross comited the ultimate sin against the banksters ...
he laughed at 25% coupon offered by Morgan Stanley ...
Boooofay was smart and took the Goldman deal ...
Barney Frank was just asked "Do you think the failure of WAMU will make the bailout more urgent?"
COMRADE MIKE, - COULD U PLS POST WHAT MR. FRANK IS SAYING ?
arroyogrande,
I'm in for over $500 in FAX and phone charges with my opposition. I am in Massachuseets and I have resorted to buying votes via free lunches (so far in for another $400) for my co-workers to try and make a ripple. I am doing all I can.
"China Approves Short Selling, Margin Lending to Develop Market"
Freedom.
Regarding breaking the Friday precedent
The auction finished Wednesday. The FDIC had been pushing WaMu to find a buyer probably since IndyMac. Everyone knew WaMu's markings were beyond optimistic but no one had the courage to risk a disorderly bankruptcy that a realization of those losses would force
I'm calling bullshit on this. WAMU couldn't last until Friday? No way! The government did this on purpose to scare congress into passing the bailout bill.
Except... isn't it proof that the systems in place now are fully capable of dealing with each disaster as it appears?
Barney Frank Talking
about his constituents' letters and faxes?
Say what you will about the JPMorgan people, but they are genuine predators.
Conjure says, "I like predators. They also have a good M&A staff."
is this no deal thing for real??
don't they realize that if they don't pass whatever paulson/bush want that terrorists will have won?
"I think it's a great deal strategically, and there is no way they won't be able to stay on their feet for the next 3 years and housing regains stability"
No way in hell does housing regain its feet in the next three years.
Failed bank list has been updated: FDIC: Failed Bank List
that terrorists will have won?
I'm no terrorist!
CR - Kudos on just a superb job over the last 10 days or so (hell last 3 years).
I'm so glad I have this venue to watch this historic event, in real time with informed commentary.
You are doing a national service!!
The Repulicans walked out of negotiations. Dem's are not going to left holding the bag passing a 700B plan and then being called on it. If the repub's don't come together then no deal..
I expect the Dow to tank tomorrow.
The feds were working within the timeframe of the rating agencies, as usual. (Hello - you think they would realize they could address a lot of their problems through the least common denominator. Stupid First Amendment!)
They could have set the bonds up a number of ways, hard to say without looking at offering documents. My guess is that this is the reason the bank was seized by the FDIC and then assets were sold rather than the other way around. I bet that changed things from a legal perspective. Just a guess though, I'm a bond geek and not an attorney.
JJL you need to use faxzero with spambox for faxes and dukadial for phone calls
Free Fax • Free Internet Faxing
Create your temporary spambox!
Jaduka Labs | Discontinued
Barney Franks boyfriend was running a male brothel out of Barney's basement apartment "without his knowledge". He is still reelected with 90% of the vote. If you are in MA, you are screwed.
--
The Truce Between the Two American Political Gangs Didnt Even Last for a Day
Americans are ruled over by two of the most manipulative political gangs in the world, who are lorded over by the biggest criminal gang in history, BFNYC.
Gang warfare has once again broken out. I saw leaders of one of the gangs appear on TV (CNBC-World) and accuse the other gang of not coming thru with an acceptable agreement. Also heard from one leader from the other gang.
We know that born-and-bred American dopes will support one or the other gang. Most Americans like to be protected by a gang! They make Mafia look more honorable.
Jas
that terrorists will have won
The terrorists better have choked on their dumpling soup from laughing so hard.
It's our only hope.
How can you screw the bond holders?
ok
deathstar or no deathstar
I am going to bed
hold the fort!
Comrade Clueless Dufus writes:
CR - Kudos on just a superb job over the last 10 days or so (hell last 3 years).
I'm so glad I have this venue to watch this historic event, in real time with informed commentary.
You are doing a national service!!
No kidding, this site is incredible - better than financial news sites in many respects nowadays.
Prediction, house republican create crisis. McCain brokers deal saves the day.
"I expect the Dow to tank tomorrow."
Conjure says, "Excellent."
Sausage and Politics. Yuck.
Get out the grinder and intestine and oh, rinse out the intestine.
but what right does the holding company have to sell of the assets and not get anything in return for them (the money went to the FDIC)
It's not a "right", it's a consequence of going insolvent and thereby losing control of the outcomes.
can anyone comment on the relationship between the unusual reverse repo actions today and the decision that WaMu had insufficient liquidity? They were going down anyway- but maybe today they got the final nudge?
So what is this new GOP proposal? So we get absolutely no action on this? Something along the lines of inusring the loans and cutting capital gains taxes? Has anyone seen the actual proposal? Any of this shit raised at any of the hearings? I have a feeling we have a big tanking tomorrow, although doesnt look like Asia is getting hit to hard right now.
"How can you screw the bond holders?"
Is this like a "lightbulb" joke? What's the punch line?
Shanghai Composite is down 66% in the last year and China is allowing short selling to occur.
That's why they're going to be really, really scary to compete against in the next 50 years. They learn capitalism real quick.
No way in hell does housing regain its feet in the next three years.
Heliben | 09.25.08 - 10:17 pm | #
I am confident housing prices are flat or rising nominally by 2011.
I grew up in a very bubbly housing market and housing bubbles are like clockwork. All that remains to be seen is if there are any significant step changes in the greater economy that changes consumer income.
Check out recent CME futures on housing, Econbrowser: Housing Prices: How Far to Go until Bottom?, I think the market is fairly accurate there
How can you screw the bond holders?
That's what secured debt pays a lower rate...