If the plan doesn't pass, Bernanke will print money and buy the paper. The Fed has the power to do that without Congress. I'd prefer it was done by Treasury with some congressional oversight.
"El Jefe Nemo writes:
CR, I do not think the JPMuMu thing was an "asset only" acquisition. Page 17 of the presentation shows $265 billion in "Liabilities assumed"."
Yes, but they bought the assets and debt from WM holding company. This wasn't a merger.
Paul Begala on CNN just referred to Bush as " a high functioning moron" and claimed both parties in Congress treat him that way
Shelby called him a short timer along with Paulson and probably BB, said in effect that they woun't be around in 4 months so who cares what they think!
From Bloomberg : "Dallas Federal Reserve Bank President Richard Fisher said the proposed $700 billion rescue of financial institutions backed by Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke would plunge the U.S. government deeper into a fiscal abyss."
[via Mish].
(FYI Mish will be on the Coast to Coast AM with George Noory radio show [the old Art Bell show] tonight for one hour, starting at 10PM Pacific.)
mp question for you or conjure. What do you think of the likelihood of the following:
Is the boogeyman in this equation the fact the FED is out of money, the Primary Dealers of Govt Treasuries borrowed 200 billion meaning they are likely hugely insolvent and the Treasury is worried that all the primary dealers go away thus, the Govt not being able to fund its operations
so with all these bank deposits going to JPM is this the FED's way of delevering JPM and their 70 to 1 or so derivative exposure
Paulson to Republicans: You fools! All that small government talk was just a way to loot the public. You weren't supposed to actually believe any of it. Didn't you realize we never meant any of it?
"In these days we are witnessing a debate on an economic rescue aimed at resolving a crisis that risks disrupting the economy of the most developed countries and leaving thousands and thousands of families without work.
"This rescue of enormous proportions, which amounts to many times the whole of international aid, cannot but raise a pressing question. How are we able to find funds to save a broken financial system yet remain unable to find the resources necessary to invest in the development of all regions of the world, beginning with the most destitute?"
Enough of the Bush bashing. Of course he doesn't know what he's doing. NONE of them do. We tested the limits of financial engineering to the breaking point. This is all new territory and the only people with half a brain who have given this scenario any thought are blogging on CR.
Published: September 25 2008 23:15 | Last updated: September 25 2008 23:15
Morgan Stanley lost close to a third of assets in its prime brokerage last week, amounting to hundreds of billions of dollars, as hedge funds panicked after the collapse of Lehman Brothers and moved to rival banks.
The losses, confirmed by several people familiar with the business, will deal a big blow to Morgan Stanley as its prime brokerage the worlds biggest is one of its most profitable and successful businesses.
A asset purchase, or informal bankruptcy thats a new twist. 1.7 Billion for the bondholders, I wonder how much outstanding debt there was on WAMU balance sheet. Interesting to see what the haircut was.
Looks like SoCal got caught in a rankings bubble...all bubbles lead to Cali.
Ooops I did it again
Multiple reasons this Trojan is going to need a stiff drink tonight... Ugh. I turned off the TV for a bit and held my daughter. Its either that or curl into the fetal position and suck my own thumb. Ok TJ, this is much worse than the timeline I had envisioned.
At least the investment emotions are going on the timeline!
Uncle Billy Loves Naomi Klein writes:
Ron, you can't be serious.
Uncle Billy Loves Naomi Klein
Uncle Billy it was on T.V. some talking head was asking him stupid questions about why he was against the Paulson Bailout. Shelby told him he had a list of 150 economist's who thought it was a bad idea!, then the talking head said something about how the President had said this was now or never and Shelby just said hey he woun't be around in 4 months; plus he is no economist. Then the talking head talked about Paulson and Shelby said the same thing that Paulson woun't be here in 4 months and his sidekick BB was on a short string. Shelby said the Paulson plan was dead and the son of Paulson was also Dead.
Best I can do from memory but he said this all very matter of fact while waving the list of 150 economist.
Are the Dems being stupid believing anything a member of the Bush adm says?
I am unaware if the secret briefing by P&B to congressional leaders has been made public (sound at all familiar FICOish?)
But the Dems did believe them and so are identified with the bail-out. Now public opinion is against the bail-out. McCain walks in and as promised solves the situation. He trashes the bail-out and becomes the populist hero
As of Jun 30th, WAMu had about $31B in long term debt and $58 billion in short term/current debt, guess the haircut to bondholders about $87 Billion. Hope they had CDS....
"It dissolved into a verbal brawl in the Cabinet Room of the White House, warnings from an angry president and pleas from a Treasury secretary who knelt before the House speaker and appealed for her support. "
Paulson literaly knelt before Pelosi begging for her help?
Still don't see how this is not the very definition of "fraudulent conveyance", though."
I posted this earlier. WaMu didn't transfer any property to JPM with intent to "hinder, delay, or defraud" its creditors. The property was seized by the FDIC and then auctioned off.
corrections?:
- They start off with $31bn in assets
- The preliminary writedowns are $36bn not $31bn
additions?:
- expect to generate $12bn more in earnings over 3 years from getting more out of WaMu branches with new sales/clients
- $2bn of merger costs over 3 years, conference call hinted this might be more (some WaMu branches don't have vaults)
- synergies will be great, remember JPM has all of its own platforms and data centers
comments: What happened to the $7.3bn in Goodwill? I'm not an accounting enthusiast, so it may just be me but is that not the most bogus line item ever? Who judges the value
question: When specifying their Tier 1 capital ratio, JPM uses their Risk Weighted Assets as the denominator. Do they ever disclose their methodologies in the 10Ks or anywhere else?
Hundreds of Economists Urge Congress Not to Rush on Rescue Plan
... ``I suspect that part of what we're seeing in the freezing up of lending markets is strategic behavior on the part of big financial players who stand to benefit from the bailout,'' said David K. Levine, an economist at Washington University in St. Louis, who studies liquidity constraints and game theory. Hundreds of Economists Urge Congress Not to Rush on Rescue Plan - Bloomberg.com
and a good summary of the psy operation was also given by Marcy Kapur (Ohio) yesterday. IMO
If money isnt loosened up, this sucker could go down.
"We will stand free or we will fall. But if we fall it will be by our own hand and a lack of resolve, a reluctance to put aside our fears and prejudices and greed that are used to play us for fools and face the facts, and listen to the truth.
When the banks make us an offer they think that we cannot refuse, we will be at the crossroads and will decide what we wish to be: slaves or free men. Yes, it really is that simple."
I was referring to the national number, just pointing out one major reason why it's wrong.
CA accounts for over 25% of the national value of RRE, so a 68% drop -- a significant part of which has not yet occurred -- will easily push the national figure up there.
"mp question for you or conjure. What do you think of the likelihood of the following:"
Probably both of the factors you mention. As to de-leveraging, I would think that would be a side issue at this point.
Although you didn't bring it up, I'm pleased the Paulson "Plan" failed. If Congress fails to come up with a truly well-thought alternative, which I don't think they will, we'll have an opportunity to see whether the banking regulatory bureaucracy can truly function on their own during the recess.
"Comrade Canadaman writes:
mp question for you or conjure. What do you think of the likelihood of the following:
Is the boogeyman in this equation the fact the FED is out of money, the Primary Dealers of Govt Treasuries borrowed 200 billion meaning they are likely hugely insolvent and the Treasury is worried that all the primary dealers go away thus, the Govt not being able to fund its operations
so with all these bank deposits going to JPM is this the FED's way of delevering JPM and their 70 to 1 or so derivative exposure"
This really was a straight deal. Basically WM was overvalued by $20 billion. FDIC came in and wiped out the common, preferred, and debt (and lawsuits). Wala, JPM pays $1.9.
One starts to think that Karl Rove has been fiendishly clever. Imagine, if you will, when the idea was proposed ... let's ask the Democratic congress for, say, $700 big ones. Scare the pants off 'em, get them ready to sign away anything. They'll go for it, ask for some minor changes, we'll acquiesce. Then our boys can say "No, we can't do this to America." It'll play real well with the people.
Win-win. We get re-elected, and we might even get $700B.
"...Just being spoon fed alarmist lines from Paulson I suppose."
That's exactly what's going on with the high functioning, babbling idiot moron we have as a president. This is politics at its worst....not to say that there's no worsening credit problem to deal with, but it's nonsense to think it has to be done by tomorrow. It's taken over a year to get this far...another week or two or wait until after the election won't hurt...unless you think the markey cleansing itself is BAD. I don't.
This smells like snapping up continentals at pennies on the dollar while simultaneously lighting a fire under Congress to honor full price, a two-fer. It's great to be a solvent banker, a big player. Touche, Dimon!
"Comrade Bear (tj & the bear) writes:
Owner Earnings,
I was referring to the national number, just pointing out one major reason why it's wrong.
CA accounts for over 25% of the national value of RRE, so a 68% drop -- a significant part of which has not yet occurred -- will easily push the national figure up there."
The 24% number JPM uses is another 24% from here for a total US loss of 44% nationwide. That's gonna hurt.
I remember reading that WaMu was doing everything it could to ignore mortgages that were 90 days past due because the foreclosure would bring the losses onto their balance sheet.
Dimon said they had all the time they needed to look at WaMu but there is room for a follow-up surprise
Did FDIC just take over a 300 billion dollar bank, scrape off the deposits and other [possible] moneymaking assets, and hand them to JPM, keeping the poison for Joe Bagholder? I seem to recall reading somewheres about a cockamamie scheme the Fed had cooked up where some of that dough could have come in handy, something about 700 billion dollars...
Thu, Sep 25, 2008
Send to a friend
O'Reilly on Rep. Frank, Sen. Dodd: "I swear to God, if they were in this room right now, I would hit them"
Summary: Discussing the current financial situation on his radio program, Bill O'Reilly said of Rep. Barney Frank and Sen. Chris Dodd, "I swear to God, if they were in this room right now, I would hit them. Dodd and Frank -- the House Finance and Senate Finance. They knew. Don't point a finger at anybody, I'll break that finger off."
During the September 25 broadcast of his radio program, while discussing the current financial situation, Bill O'Reilly said: "Walk away from these liars -- these right-wing liars. Walk away from them. They're not looking out for you." Referring to Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) and Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT), O'Reilly continued: "I don't even want to talk about the far left. Barney Frank -- disgusting -- pointing fingers. It's you, you big fat toad. You, Frank -- you. Dodd, sitting there, 'Uh, we have to' -- it's you, Dodd, you. You knew." He went on to say: "I swear to God, if they were in this room right now, I would hit them. Dodd and Frank -- the House Finance and Senate Finance. They knew. Don't point a finger at anybody, I'll break that finger off."
Earlier, O'Reilly said: "It's [President] Bush's fault. It happened on Bush's watch. You know, Bush could've prevented this."
From the September 25 broadcast of Westwood One's The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly:
O'REILLY: And all of these ideologues, it gets me angry. I do talk radio and most of talk radio is conservative-dominated ideologues, Kool-Aid-drinking idiots -- idiots -- screaming at you, "This is socialism," this is this, this is that, "It's Clinton's fault." "It's Clinton's fault." "It's Clinton's fault"? Clinton hasn't been in office in eight years.
It's Bush's fault. It happened on Bush's watch. You know, Bush could've prevented this. He could've gone in easily and said, "Merrill Lynch is dealing in bad paper." He could have said that. "Merrill Lynch is dealing in bad paper." "Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac -- they're dealing in bad paper," so you, the investor, don't invest in those companies. You think they would have continued to deal in bad paper?
LIS WIEHL (co-host): I don't think so.
O'REILLY: No, they would not. One time, he had to say that. And he'd probably didn't even have to say it. He could've called them up and say, "You're dealing in bad paper, and if you don't stop it, I'm going out and telling everybody." No.
No, because he didn't want to get involved, didn't want to interfere. He didn't interfere when the oil speculators ran up the price of oil. He let them do it. He didn't come out and say, "Hey, this is bull. This is not supply and demand. This is a bunch of guys sitting there, driving it up, and you got to pay the price. That's wrong."
So, you got to believe Bush when he tells you it's bad, because Bush has just sat around and not done anything. Therefore, he has a 19-percent approval rating now. He's a decent man, ladies and gentlemen, but his last term has been a disaster. First term, I don't have a problem -- think he did a good job. Last term, my God, what happened?
But let's get back to this talk radio stuff. These idiots, I mean, they're misleading you. They're lying to you. They're rich, these guys -- big cigars, all of that. "Yeah. Oh yeah, my private jet." And they're saying, "Oh no, no bailout. Uh-uh. No way." Hey, you are gonna get it, not them. That foreign investment pulls out, we are toast.
And they'll pull out, if this bailout doesn't happen. Are you getting the message here? Walk away from these liars -- these right-wing liars. Walk away from them. They're not looking out for you.
I don't even want to talk about the far left. Barney Frank -- disgusting -- pointing fingers. It's you, you big fat toad. You, Frank -- you. Dodd, sitting there, "Uh, we have to" -- it's you, Dodd, you. You knew.
I swear to God, if they were in this room right now, I would hit them. Dodd and Frank -- the House Finance and Senate Finance. They knew. Don't point a finger at anybody, I'll break that finger off.
So, you got corruption on the right and you got corruption on the left. And who gets it? You get it. You, the hard-working person. You, the person who goes to work, invests your money, tries to do well by your family and retirement, doesn't want to leech off the government -- and did they tell you they're trafficking in bad paper? No, they don't. Did they know? They knew.
The next politician who gets up there and points a finger, I'm gonna go after them myself. Shut up. Fix it.
You know, this isn't a game here. These are people's lives. These are people's lives. I got enough money in the bank, OK? Unless a bank fails, I'm fine. But you're probably not fine. I'm lucky. And I'm tired of these charlatans on both sides lying to you, because they're ideological, Kool-Aid drinkers or corrupt toads.
And I'm talking to you, Barney Frank. Who's the guy that was, "Oh, if you don't lend money to poor people, you're a bigot?" Who was saying that, Barney?
So what I haven't heard yet is the potential impact of $83 billion in credit going up in a puff of smoke. Is this the start of the CDS chain reaction everyone has been trying to avoid?
deposits are not assets to a bank, they are liabilities.
the fdic got the occ to declare the bank insolvent and appoint dfic as receiver, took it over as receiver, and immediately sold a bunch of the assets to JPM Chase after having negotiated the deal with chase prior to the declaration of insolvency.
Here's the letter from the 150 economists. On the one hand, some good observations, on the other hand, criticism of a recognized problem without suggesting alternatives adds no substance to the debate.
As economists, we want to express to Congress our great concern for the plan proposed by Treasury Secretary Paulson to deal with the financial crisis. We are well aware of the difficulty of the current financial situation and we agree with the need for bold action to ensure that the financial system continues to function. We see three fatal pitfalls in the currently proposed plan:
1) Its fairness. The plan is a subsidy to investors at taxpayers expense. Investors who took risks to earn profits must also bear the losses. Not every business failure carries systemic risk. The government can ensure a well-functioning financial industry, able to make new loans to creditworthy borrowers, without bailing out particular investors and institutions whose choices proved unwise.
2) Its ambiguity. Neither the mission of the new agency nor its oversight are clear. If taxpayers are to buy illiquid and opaque assets from troubled sellers, the terms, occasions, and methods of such purchases must be crystal clear ahead of time and carefully monitored afterwards.
3) Its long-term effects. If the plan is enacted, its effects will be with us for a generation. For all their recent troubles, Americas dynamic and innovative private capital markets have brought the nation unparalleled prosperity. Fundamentally weakening those markets in order to calm short-run disruptions is desperately short-sighted.
For these reasons we ask Congress not to rush, to hold appropriate hearings, and to carefully consider the right course of action, and to wisely determine the future of the financial industry and the U.S. economy for years to come.
"TEBB writes:
deposits are not assets to a bank, they are liabilities.
the fdic got the occ to declare the bank insolvent and appoint dfic as receiver, took it over as receiver, and immediately sold a bunch of the assets to JPM Chase after having negotiated the deal with chase prior to the declaration of insolvency."
Most intersting thing is JPM had a team of 100 people in WM for months and kept it quiet. The whole thing about Goldman taking offers for the business was just a smokescreen.
Sept. 26 (Bloomberg) -- China's cabinet agreed to let investors buy shares on credit and sell borrowed stock to help develop Asia's second-largest market after prices and trading volumes slumped, an official familiar with the plan said.
I SO hope someone snapped a shot of Paulsonstein kneeling and begging before Nancy Pelosi. "Please Please Mistress - don't send me away. I am your creature. Comfort me."{
The FDIC is the most senior creditor of them all, that's why bondholders are getting obliterated.
That being said they chose to bundle the depositors and the mortgages & loans.
I think the creditors would have done a lot better if the business units were auctioned individually. I think the FDIC chose not to do that because they would have needed to draw on their balance sheet to make depositors whole, at least until the mortgage unit could be sold (eg after the hanky panky superfund gets passed)
What is the chance that not bundling the sale would have forced the FDIC to draw down its funds to a point where it NEEDED an infusion from the Treasury.
They keep talking about raising insurance premiums, but when are they going to do it? Are they waiting until more stable times for the financials?
I agree with the princples expressed, but it is shockingly thin.
But, to put that in perspective, what is really shocking, frightening, and chilling is the utter collapse and vacuousness of this country's leadership, which must come from the White House in sitautions like this.
This must be what it feels like to live in a country where the govt collapses, like Pakistan recently, or N Korea with Kim in a coma....
Most polls indicate that the public views McCain's "Time Out" as a purely political stunt. Now if McCain torpedoes the bailout and the markets crash he will be personally blamed. VERY high risk political gamble. (Personally I'd like to see the bailout fail, and am willing to live with the short run consequences. But the American public??)
owner earnings - i think the fdic has simultaneous discussions with a number of institutions before a bank fails in order to see which will offer it the best deal. i'm not sure how many people they allow on site at the institution, they may just collect the data themselves and then hand it over to several institutions under confidentiality agts to look over it.
i used to be a banker, and worked for a bank that failed and was sold immediately.
rationaljeff writes: That Bush quote is in several articles from a simple Google search...
D'oh! Given the number of times I've wondered why people don't try that first, I've been hoist in my own petard. (But still, people should always give html references to quotes... just to be nice to readers!)
Now if McCain torpedoes the bailout and the markets crash he will be personally blamed. VERY high risk political gamble. (Personally I'd like to see the bailout fail, and am willing to live with the short run consequences. But the American public??)
If the markets fail, McCain loses, but Obama inherits the mess.
So JPM has acquired WaMu's toxic portfolio. Wait a minute, aren't those loans subject of the bailout? Won't JPM be able to sell them to the government at well above the market price?
So it might well happen that having subsidized JPM's purchase of Bear Stearns, the government will now susbidize its purchase of WaMu. Doesn't it look like a trend?
I was in a meeting this morning where there was an executive from a community bank. She was carrying on about how they were just playing politics with the bailout plan and that they needed to just get it done. I was thinking, do you not understand your bank will be totally screwed in this process?
Evil Henry Paulson wrote:
I think the creditors would have done a lot better if the business units were auctioned individually. I think the FDIC chose not to do that because they would have needed to draw on their balance sheet to make depositors whole, at least until the mortgage unit could be sold (eg after the hanky panky superfund gets passed)
What is the chance that not bundling the sale would have forced the FDIC to draw down its funds to a point where it NEEDED an infusion from the Treasury.
You may be right on the money (ha ha.) I know of one failed bank years ago where the FDIC got the buying bank to buy even the bad assets, and then guaranteed them a certain return on those assets in order to minimize the amount the FDIC had to put up.
TulipsAllOverAgain writes:
According to WaMu's most recent 10-Q, it owed about $58 billion to the Federal Home Loan Banks.
Anyone know if the FHLB gets paid back in a deal like this?
TulipsAllOverAgain | 09.25.08 - 11:01 pm | #
Good eye. Note the FHLB is owned by member banks, this is going to kick a lot of small and medium regional banks in the nuts. Now there is a liquidity problem
Good for Flowers and others looking to buy in I suppose
Nearly eight out of 10 Americans 78% say Congress should approve a historic bailout of the nation's financial markets, but most want lawmakers to significantly modify the Bush administration's $700 billion plan, according to a new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll.
"But, to put that in perspective, what is really shocking, frightening, and chilling is the utter collapse and vacuousness of this country's leadership, which must come from the White House in sitautions like this.
This must be what it feels like to live in a country where the govt collapses, like Pakistan recently, or N Korea with Kim in a coma....
"
Boehner and Mccain may have saved what is left of the Republican Party come what may.A friend who attended the Republican National convention told me there was a total of ONE bush item available,a mask.they had buttons avaiable for ALL of the 20th century Republican presidential candidates,NONE for bush.I wonder who will publish his autobiography,and now Eric Carle is dead who will illustrate it/
"In these days we are witnessing a debate on an economic rescue aimed at resolving a crisis that risks disrupting the economy of the most developed countries and leaving thousands and thousands of families without work.
"This rescue of enormous proportions, which amounts to many times the whole of international aid, cannot but raise a pressing question. How are we able to find funds to save a broken financial system yet remain unable to find the resources necessary to invest in the development of all regions of the world, beginning with the most destitute?"
Celestino Migliore | 09.25.08 - 10:39 pm | #
STFU already.
I - and I think most other Americans - have finally had enough with the rest of the world crap.
At some level, if these folks can't get beyond clans that want to kill one another, then that's not my problem nor that of my children.
I've got enough problems with the two clans in DC.
Hose the equity holders (and clip the bondholder liabilities), and write off the bad loans, and the bank emerges as a semi-solvent entity?
What is the catch in handling the crisis in this way?
I dunno; some folks in Riyadh, Tokyo, and Beijing might have issues. Kind of hard to actively screw bondholders when we've got a negative savings rate.
It's instructive to view the US Treasury's plans for a bail-out of the global financial system through the lens of the hollow state. By this measure, the bailout as it stands today, is a form of financial looting of the US Treasury (it isn't socialism, since the government isn't nationalizing the financial system). Trillions of dollars in government monies ($700 billion to begin with) will be infused directly into the coffers of corporations and wealthy individuals (via hedge funds). Specifically, the plan buys toxic assets at inflated prices and sells them back for nearly nothing -- no equity or assets of real value are provided in exchange for the purchase. The national debt will likely grow 20-30% in a single year, with obligations extended to many trillions more in guarantees.
Given this, one potential next step forward is a decline the credit rating of US debt (which radically increases the costs of US borrowing), a collapse in the dollar relative to more stable global currencies, and a rapid decline in government services. Other scenarios achieve the same result with different timing. Regardless, our (the US and the UK) journey to a hollow state has officially begun."
Yeah, scary stuff. I used to think the same thing. But after getting through 9/11 and all the other stuff, you'll survive this.
Recall a conversation with an older friend who's first child was born in late 1973 and they were terrified of the world into which they were bring their child.
Hnery Paulson doesn't really know what a MBS is, and certainly doesn't know what any of them are worth. So give the common folks a break.
The ground is swelling for New Deal II, not Ron Paul's laissez-faire system.
The failure of the Bush bailout - failure to pass it or, if passed, its failure to solve the problem - sets the stage for a major leftward social democratic shift.
If we're really lucky, we'll TGV trains, French vacations, German healthcare (comes with massages, not shitting ya) and a host of other improvements.
If only the Republican party had some principles after 9/11 rather than at the 11th hour and 59th minute, the Republic might not be at the doorstep of ruin.
Ooops I did it again writes:
Here's the letter from the 150 economists. On the one hand, some good observations, on the other hand, criticism of a recognized problem without suggesting alternatives adds no substance to the debate.
The point is: many thinks that rushing the process has been part of the strategy. If that is the case, in addition to being shaky, the proposal is suspect. And it is just one more example on a long list, of a highly predictable event (freeze) for which a solution should have been discussed-prepared a long time ago, not just presented hastily. This is so ludicrous it is insulting.
I am sure they (economists) have alternatives ready for discussion.
I am actually for the first time actually getting really scared here. I don't think I will ever be able to buy a home in this current turmoil. I thought things were bad 6 months ago. I can't even perceive what the next 3 weeks will be like.
I am working outside the country the next few weeks I am wonder what I will come back too...
"why did john mccain, who told us all he didn't know much about economics, go get himself in the middle of delicate negotiations over the bailout bill?
i haven't heard him say one definitive thing about what ought to be done, but he had to rush right up there."
Looking through the owners of WM's bonds, it looks to be mostly insurance companies. A diversified group. The largest exposures based on >3% holdings in each bond tranche:
Western Asset Mgt $64mln
American Life $67mln
AXA $51 mln
Genworth $41 mln
AIG (you & me) $33mln
Pacific Mutual $32mln
Also holders of Vanguard LT Bond and ishare bond funds got $30-40mln hits each.
Nothing overly serious. Most holdings were as of June 2008.
A top U.S. bank regulator said on Thursday her agency acted swiftly to find a buyer for struggling mortgage lender Washington Mutual Inc to quell customer anxiety fueled by media leaks.
Why is everyone starting from the fatally flawed Treasury proposal from last weekend, and the trying to "fix" a fatally flawed approach?: Jusr simply enact a new stimulus plan that gives every taxpayer a check for $5,000, and that injection will be a more efficient solution that the inanae Treasury pla
I am sure they (economists) have alternatives ready for discussion.
Haaaaaaaaa. You can't get 3 or more economists together to agree on a course of action, much less 150. That's why the letter is like it is....they can agree to be broadly critical, but it would have been too long to put in all 150 alternatives.
As i've said before, this is Salvador Allende's revenge. Make the American economy scream -- Kissinger's words about Chile that are going to bite the US on the ass harder than some people understand is possible.
I am actually for the first time actually getting really scared here. I don't think I will ever be able to buy a home in this current turmoil. I thought things were bad 6 months ago. I can't even perceive what the next 3 weeks will be like.
Where is the FBI, the SEC, the Police, Congress? Why haven't the executives of WAMU been arrested? Why aren't subpoenas being served at WAMU headquarters?
Comrade Mike writes: I bought 100 rounds for my rifle. I hope it's enough to protect me and mines...
About 3x that -- 10 mags. A Mossberg 500 18" home defense shotgun is MUCH MUCH better that a rifled-bore longarm or handgun if you are defending your home and not playing infantryman.
McCain's campaign said more negotiations were needed to draft legislation that would pass Congress.
``There is not yet a majority of Democrats and Republicans who are willing to vote yes for anything,'' said Steve Schmidt, a senior adviser to McCain's campaign.
Kevin Smith, a spokesman for House Republican Leader John Boehner, said the speed with which Dodd's plan was put together was designed ``to deny Senator McCain a role in trying to craft a bipartisan solution.''
Cantor was told by Boehner to start working on an alternative two days ago, Smith said. Pelosi was told today.
Michele Davis, a spokeswoman for Paulson, said, ``Secretary Paulson appreciates the hard work by members on both sides of the aisle to address the threat we face to our economy,'' and urged lawmakers to resolve their differences."
I've been wondering who to vote for for president, seeing as how I'm for "neither of the above". I was thinking of writing in Ron Paul, but now I'm thinking - that's a waste. He'll never win.
So I'm thinking of writing in a bank. They run the country anyway. Maybe I'll write in JPMorgan. It's probably more efficient to actually appoint a bank as president and get on with it, than to pretend anyone other than a bank is in charge here.
I am writing you one more time in hopes that you can stop the $700 billion Paulson bailout plan. We all know that Paulsons Plan can not possibly work. Over the past few months the Paulson and Bernanke bailouts (Bear Stearns, Fannie, Freddie and AIG) have not achieved their intended stabilizing purposes. This bailout will not achieve its intended purpose either. Bailouts can only harm free markets and they send the wrong message to both taxpayers and corporate America.
If Wall Street, the Fed, the Treasury, the Congress and the President believe that our financial innovations run so deep that the wisdom of the free market can not solve them, I doubt that the government can solve them either. Maybe we need to announce the death of American finance and entrepreneurship .or admit that the Chinese are right, we are not deserving of the reserve currency status. Senator this plan is ridiculous, the President is WRONG, The Fed is WRONG, the Treasury is WRONG, Warren Buffet is WRONG and Bill Gross is WRONG. Wall Street does not need a bailout. Nor does it need a solvency plan, solvency tax or solvency fund. We need to let American enterprise solve its own problems without government meddling. We are Americans, we believe in a capitalism, we believe in free markets, our dollar is the worlds reserve currency, lets get government out of the way and prove to the world that we are worthy of these ideals!!!
At least a simple majority of the people in the USA won't really notice that much. Certainly the vast majority that live and work and breed in the despicable "flyover" states won't notice that much at all. They are already hunkering down. The recession in those areas started in 1970's and really hasn't let up much over the last 35 years as manufacturing exits the USA at an ever-increasing rate.
They know there is a depression coming, no matter the clowns in DC do or do not do. It's self-evident.
So go ahead, take your money and go. We'll be fine here in USA.
Mossberg 500 18" home defense shotgun is MUCH MUCH better that a rifled-bore longarm or handgun if you are defending your home and not playing infantryman.
Agreed. Although Ithaca.
A large dog is essential too. They hear and react before you even stir from your sleep.
My reading of WM is that they are taking the loans and booking another $31 billion in losses.
So, basically, the FDIC wrote down the WM loans $31 billion before JPM would take them.
A little less then another 20% of the problem classes for a loss ratio (booked) in the mid 30% of loans.
They HAVE to be thinking that they won't have to write them down again for another year or two.
The combined capital ratios decline a bit, which isn't reassuring. They will need to raise capital, IMO.
Also, noticed their Texas stuff. Left over from the S&L energy meltdown. If they could do it in Texas in the early 1990's, they must think they can do it now.
WaMu didn't transfer any property to JPM with intent to "hinder, delay, or defraud" its creditors. The property was seized by the FDIC and then auctioned off.
rationaljeff writes:
I am actually for the first time actually getting really scared here. I don't think I will ever be able to buy a home in this current turmoil. I thought things were bad 6 months ago. I can't even perceive what the next 3 weeks will be like.
I am working outside the country the next few weeks I am wonder what I will come back too...
rationaljeff | 09.25.08 - 11:16 pm | #
Yeah, I'm scared too, but your comment made me think of Finance 303 in 1983. Rates @ 15+% and high unemployment and listening to the professor and thinking, I'll never be able to afford a house.
Go overseas for awhile and take a break from this.
Don't ever....ever....EVER, trust a guard dog. 90+ % of my victims say their dog ALWAYS barks and doens't like stranger. My answer: So why are you a victim.
Ooops I did it again writes:
Haaaaaaaaa. You can't get 3 or more economists together to agree on a course of action, much less 150. That's why the letter is like it is....they can agree to be broadly critical, but it would have been too long to put in all 150 alternatives.
Well I guess the politicians would have to do what some of us do every day when we synthesize news and opinions from all sides and all continents and make-derive our own decisions. It is not about following it is about listening, analyzing and integrating
"I hope I never get so old that my love for Mary fades."
I get headaches from it now. Sad. I can do shrooms, but a whole day recovery afterwards kinda kills it for me. Stamps are right out...too long. I'll still do a bit of shroomies on a 3 day weekend or vacation if they're mild and around.
"Republican lawmakers stall urgent efforts to lash together a national economic rescue plan"
Glad to see that Yahoo isn't taking sides on whether we should do this bailout or not. With the impartial media not taking sides, it's so easy to keep public discourse focused on the problem at hand.
Isn't the system working as designed? Bank runs are being prevented by the feds lending. The emergency lending is working.. Maybe Bernanke and Paulson are panicking because they are so close to that action? All the cash flowing thru their office is spooking them?
You need us. America has pissed off our investments, and if you're not careful we'll pull them out altogether.
Then see if you can buy some cheap stuff at Wal Mart... if you have a job.
We own the land and I for one would be happy to become a martyr of the Republic maiming and killing countless young men and women of your nation if you send them here to occupy us.
Anything short of occupation is merely a gesture. Who cares bout a few years of economic hardship? That's history. Accident of geography has made us one of history's great cultures. Get used to us, the same way you can get used to China -- who, you will soon learn, are equally culturally overbearing, for equally good reasons.
By all means, cut off the cheap crap and force us to develop internally, we really need it.
albrt writes:
"I am no expert, but isn't what happened to WM similar in principle to what John Hussman is proposing as a potential way to address the crisis?
LOL ... you know who is insolvent ?
Citi , Jp, BAC , Wells, Goldman, Morgan S ... the whos who of bankerstdom ...
The bank failures of the Depression swallowed up almost all really small banks. It looks like another round of consolidation into super-mega-banks is underway, even as some these big ones have problems of their own.
I hate to threadjack, but since people keep talking about the Hanky-Panky-Superfund.
Bill Gross talked about optimistic returns being 12-13% annually, IF bought at 60 cents on the dollar. He is probably implying that the greater economy will be strong due to exports and a weak dollar.
Paulson(/Bernanke) have been hinting at a target of 70 cents on the dollar.
So Paulson plans to offer 17% above what Gross would. I think that is very telling and supports CR's supposition this is a stealth handout to the tune of $300bn as originally proposed.
To protect your home, shotgun good, handgun better. Get fast moving rounds to pierce the walls. Handgun gives better mobility throughout the house. If you are a crook, get a rifle. Stand across the street and shoot the guy in the window holding a handgun. Make sure you practice because when I show up, I'm going to shoot the guy with a rifle. And I've been practicing my entire life.
does anyone here have a clue as to what the Repub alternate plans are and how they would work? Insurance or loan plans?
haven't those sort of mechanisms melted down already? For it to work it would have be done like the Paulson Plan was intended to be executed - ie not at market rates, because market rates equal bankruptcy.
so how is it an alternative?
Nationalization is an alternative.
Giving the money directly to people with incomes under some level, e.g. maybe $200K incomes, that would be an alternative (Paulson isn't the only one who pull numbers out of his ass).
A giant public works stimulus could be an alternative to generate employment, wage growth, invest directly in firms, and build new industries and infrastructure.
arroyogrande writes:
Glad to see that Yahoo isn't taking sides on whether we should do this bailout or not. With the impartial media not taking sides, it's so easy to keep public discourse focused on the problem at hand.
That's right big creek, if weez jus killed all dem terriest dumbocrats, dis wurld wuld be much better
Paulson kneeling before Pelosi is a fitting image for the last gasp of a lame duck administration. Paulson knows Bush is washed up, even while Bush is still pitching his "plan".
You're off in your reading. They gain assets, and with current markdowns they are near even. Under the worst-case, 20% further housing decline, the additional losses are $18bn
This is offset by the $12bn in new earnings they hope to generate from the new branches.
In the end they probably will have paid $25bn to acquire WaMu
They will have to raise capital as mandated by the OTS to boost Tier 1 ratio, that amount is $8bn and they plan to offer on the open market Friday.
Dogs are not on alert all the time. They work in shifts like people. A good dope sniffer will work for about 20 minutes and have to take a break. Your dog at home, sleeps most the day away and is not "on guard" like you think. He might be mean and bark alot, but that is on his time.
I am suddenly getting "unable to access" messages on our 401k accounts, managed by Fidelity. I am suspicious. Are they blocking access to prevent a run?
Again, where were you circa 2005? Now most of us are just mildly annoyed.
I was actually not in a position to buy a home then, and was wondering how the hell everyone else was doing it.
But now I am in a position, and being in the Bay Area, it has taken some time to get myself in that position, and now the world is falling down around me.
After thinking about my comment though, and your responses, maybe I am in a prime position to just sit back (I hope I can and don't loose my job's) and take advantage of the bottom of this disaster in 2 years as you guys say.
A giant public works stimulus could be an alternative to generate employment, wage growth, invest directly in firms, and build new industries and infrastructure.
Building a mixture of wind, solar and geothermal power stations to replace the coal and nuclear ones would be a start.
Investing heavily in an open source / public domain electric car design would also be good.
Handgun gives better mobility throughout the house.
I thought that was the beauty of a sawed-off shotgun.
Unless you go to the range once a month . . . and if you like that, that's great . . .can you really depend on aiming a handgun in a crisis? or is crazy gentleman/lady running wild with handgun sufficient deterrent?
Latest on bail out from Reuters - 11:16 PM...Frank says Dems have a plan.
That was yesterday night, not now.
I wish there had been a camera on in that Cabinet with the big power players having a verbal brawl when said plan collapsed. That's a reality show I'd watch! Bonus entertainment points if Paulson literally knelt before Nancy, although I think that's metaphorical.
first?
Quotes like that almost make me glad Bush is president.
Certainly makes the situation more... interesting.
You should feel more secure already.
wow.
Top ten?
If money isnt loosened up, this sucker could go down.
President Bush, Sept 25, 2008
Thought Jeff Gannon was gone already.
Seems house Republicans walked out- talks to be resumed at 11:30am EST tomorrow.
Should be a fun day in the credit markets tomorrow.
Plus, its not even Friday yet.
Talking about the Presidential Speech last night, Paul Begala, Clinton-Gore Strategist, just called Bush a "high functioning moron" on CNN.
China banks told to halt lending to US banks.
CR, I do not think the JPMuMu thing was an "asset only" acquisition. Page 17 of the presentation shows $265 billion in "Liabilities assumed".
Pizza Pizza
Scotty, I NEED MORE POWER!
I can't do it Captain!
YES!!! I knew I had to hold on to my WAMU PUTs.
So is this what 20 years of risk suppression looks like?
The JPM deal proved that there is a market for assets...the free market works...there are winners and there are losers.
this administration ought to be ashamed of itself....the hyperbole is completely over the top!
If the plan doesn't pass, Bernanke will print money and buy the paper. The Fed has the power to do that without Congress. I'd prefer it was done by Treasury with some congressional oversight.
God bless us one and all - as we go down and get sucked no, sorry suckered geezz thats wrong too sucker, yes sucker - go down sucker..
Thats my Prez!
JPM Deal:
If house prices decline 8%, they come out even on the assets.
If house prices decline 16%, they lose $13 billion.
If house prices decline 24%, they lose $24 billion.
House prices will probably decline another 16% so they paid $15 billion for WM.
Note to the clowns in DC: the market works. Stop with your insane, hastily designed bailout plans.
I'm in Seattle and the line to jump off the Aurora Bridge goes clear back to Queen Anne right now!
Paul Begala on CNN just referred to Bush as " a high functioning moron" and claimed both parties in Congress treat him that way.
"El Jefe Nemo writes:
CR, I do not think the JPMuMu thing was an "asset only" acquisition. Page 17 of the presentation shows $265 billion in "Liabilities assumed"."
Yes, but they bought the assets and debt from WM holding company. This wasn't a merger.
El Jefe Nemo, they get assets and liabilities - but not legal liabilities. They are buying things, not WaMu.
Best to all.
"Thats my prez!"
YUP...our President is a babbling idiot!!
That is the primary cost of the acquisition - the write-downs. [$30-$54b]
Think of the tax savings. That's how the Feds are funneling the cash incentive.
CNN news (TV) saying NYSE might be closed tomorrow? I heard this 2nd hand.
Dufus, you can't be serious.
smart money says no deal on TARP by tomorrow,
sells the dollar 15% into monday...
strong dollar policy?
decoupling?
capital flight?
deficits dont matter,
people do!
Owner Earnings,
The fun is barely underway in the big CA cities. 24% is optimistic.
CR, Nice work these past few weeks. Your work is outstanding!
Comrade Bagholders,
Joo Moo?
Nostrovia,
Niiice
Owner Earnings --
Ah, thanks. I guess I had my terminology screwed up.
Still don't see how this is not the very definition of "fraudulent conveyance", though.
Fun times.
I'd like to see Bush say that on TV. "I need my Paulson Plan, or this sucker is going down!"
Geesh ... this guy inspires confidence.
this is being called an "asset sale." However, deposits are not assets---deposits are liabilities. Someone explain. What did JPMC buy?
Calculated Risk writes:
El Jefe Nemo, they get assets and liabilities - but not legal liabilities. They are buying things, not WaMu.
Best to all.
Best of all to who? Whadda ya mean. Can you buy all the good parts and leave all the bad parts on the curbside? How?
Joo Poo Moo.
Plus, its not even Friday yet.
Looks like every day is Friday now. But since everybody works through the weekend, there's no net gain.
Paul Begala on CNN just referred to Bush as " a high functioning moron" and claimed both parties in Congress treat him that way
Shelby called him a short timer along with Paulson and probably BB, said in effect that they woun't be around in 4 months so who cares what they think!
From Bloomberg :
"Dallas Federal Reserve Bank President Richard Fisher said the proposed $700 billion rescue of financial institutions backed by Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke would plunge the U.S. government deeper into a fiscal abyss."
[via Mish].
(FYI Mish will be on the Coast to Coast AM with George Noory radio show [the old Art Bell show] tonight for one hour, starting at 10PM Pacific.)
CR,
Yeah, but it's not like anyone else there does either.
CR, do you have a link for that Bush quote?
WT writes:
China banks told to halt lending to US banks.
That news has to be causing a run at Lefty's
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Note to self:
Never buy the unsecured debt of a bank.
mp question for you or conjure. What do you think of the likelihood of the following:
Is the boogeyman in this equation the fact the FED is out of money, the Primary Dealers of Govt Treasuries borrowed 200 billion meaning they are likely hugely insolvent and the Treasury is worried that all the primary dealers go away thus, the Govt not being able to fund its operations
so with all these bank deposits going to JPM is this the FED's way of delevering JPM and their 70 to 1 or so derivative exposure
"Geesh ... this guy inspires confidence."
at least he's not asking for a time-out
Paulson to Republicans: You fools! All that small government talk was just a way to loot the public. You weren't supposed to actually believe any of it. Didn't you realize we never meant any of it?
Ninety-five seconds of goofy music for a White House brawl:
Milonga Picaresque
For a cheap laugh regarding WaMu, check out:
https://online.wamu.com/banking/offers/campaign001/landing/customer_note
Ron, you can't be serious.
They took the assets (loans, buildings) and assumed the liabilites (deposits) of the everything BUT the holding company AFTER the FDIC took over...
"This sucker is going down" - probably not the best use of terms!
If a guy had 400,000 puts on WaMoo at a $5 strike, he could have a good time in Dallas this weekend!
We moved to Portland, Oregon in 1998 because everyone was afraid that Y2K would bring down banks, government, coffee makers, the Internet, etc.
What can we call this evening?
Y2K+8?
OMFG... I just found out about Washington Mutual.
My sympathies to everyone hit by the terrifying events of today -- including us.
Just holding on to some dim hope --
Ellen in Orego
Joo Moo?
JamPamMoo. Dangerously close to JapanMoo.
Bush speaks about this stuff as if he has any idea what he's saying. Just being spoon fed alarmist lines from Paulson I suppose.
"House prices will probably decline another 16% so they paid $15 billion for WM"
Better check the loan portfolio. Much of it is HELOCs. They return ZERO.
This sucker is going down.
A fitting end to your presidency, n'est-ce pas?
"In these days we are witnessing a debate on an economic rescue aimed at resolving a crisis that risks disrupting the economy of the most developed countries and leaving thousands and thousands of families without work.
"This rescue of enormous proportions, which amounts to many times the whole of international aid, cannot but raise a pressing question. How are we able to find funds to save a broken financial system yet remain unable to find the resources necessary to invest in the development of all regions of the world, beginning with the most destitute?"
21-0 at half...go Beavers!
Looks like SoCal got caught in a rankings bubble...all bubbles lead to Cali.
picosec --
Awesome link; thank you.
And some people wonder why we are having a crisis of confidence in the system.
Enough of the Bush bashing. Of course he doesn't know what he's doing. NONE of them do. We tested the limits of financial engineering to the breaking point. This is all new territory and the only people with half a brain who have given this scenario any thought are blogging on CR.
ASIAN MARKETS START TO BLEED
I LOVE IT YA...
This just in:
Bloomberg adding more gridspace to the Ted Spread chart. Developing story.
Film at 11.
"Comrade Bear (tj & the bear) writes:
Owner Earnings,
The fun is barely underway in the big CA cities. 24% is optimistic."
24% is a US average. I think they estimated 68% decline for either FL or CA. WOAH.
House we're renting: purchased for $350K in 2005 - according to Zillow, now $220K.
Brilliant move as far as J6P is concerned. Completely avoided a nasty and widespread bank run.
Oh, and TARP's loss wouldn't concern the general populace either, since they don't see it helping them.
Can you buy all the good parts and leave all the bad parts on the curbside? How?
If I read this correctly, WaMu didn't sell/transfer the assets to JPM; if it did, fraudulent conveyance could come into play.
The assets/liabilities were seized by the FDIC, and who then auctioned off to JPM. No fraudulent conveyance. Sucks to be the unsecured bondholders.
So it goes:
Flight from Morgan Stanley brokerage
By James Mackintosh in London
Published: September 25 2008 23:15 | Last updated: September 25 2008 23:15
Morgan Stanley lost close to a third of assets in its prime brokerage last week, amounting to hundreds of billions of dollars, as hedge funds panicked after the collapse of Lehman Brothers and moved to rival banks.
The losses, confirmed by several people familiar with the business, will deal a big blow to Morgan Stanley as its prime brokerage the worlds biggest is one of its most profitable and successful businesses.
Talking about the Presidential Speech last night, Paul Begala, Clinton-Gore Strategist, just called Bush a "high functioning moron" on CNN.
Uncle Billy Loves Naomi Klein
an insult to upstanding morons everywhere
Comrade Bagholders,
Wow, CR posting deep into comments...Apocalypse coming.
BTW
Joo Moo Poo Poo...so there.
;P
Nostrovia,
Couldn't have happened to a nicer, more deserving bunch of folks.
"Border relations between Canada and Mexico have never been better." W, Press Conference with Canadian Prime Minister, 2001.
If the bondholders are wiped out, doesn't this mean the CDS will come into play? And how many of those will fail?
A asset purchase, or informal bankruptcy thats a new twist. 1.7 Billion for the bondholders, I wonder how much outstanding debt there was on WAMU balance sheet. Interesting to see what the haircut was.
"House we're renting: purchased for $350K in 2005 - according to Zillow, now $220K."
Haha please. Zillow overvalues property so bad. That home you're renting will go for 175k tops.
"That is the primary cost of the acquisition - the write-downs."
Will other institutions feel compelled to adjust their write-downs?
What is the domino effect in coming days of WaMu bondholders getting whacked?
21-0 at half...go Beavers!
Looks like SoCal got caught in a rankings bubble...all bubbles lead to Cali.
Ooops I did it again
Multiple reasons this Trojan is going to need a stiff drink tonight... Ugh. I turned off the TV for a bit and held my daughter. Its either that or curl into the fetal position and suck my own thumb. Ok TJ, this is much worse than the timeline I had envisioned.
At least the investment emotions are going on the timeline!
Got Popcorn? Martini?
Neil
Paul Begala, Clinton-Gore Strategist,
a real winner
"El Jefe Nemo writes:
Owner Earnings --
Ah, thanks. I guess I had my terminology screwed up.
Still don't see how this is not the very definition of "fraudulent conveyance", though."
I believe this is the same type of deal BAC did for CFC. Alot of people don't realize that.
Fraud? Na. CEO gaming the system, yep.
If money isnt loosened up, this sucker could go down.
Uh huh. Would somebody please sock Bush in the jaw already?
Wow, I didn't know you could part out a financial.
Jack a bank and strip it.
Jacking cars is for woosies!
A lot of bubble RE markets have barely begun to pop. I think that'll come with the option ARM recasts over the next 3 years.
If money isnt loosened up, this sucker could go down.
President Bush, Sept 25, 2008
Is this serious?
Sorry to be an 8-year-slow-learner, but I've gotta see a link.
I smell a future snopes page.
picosec writes:
For a cheap laugh regarding WaMu, check out:
For $7M, I would sleep with whom ever you choose, too
Uncle Billy Loves Naomi Klein writes:
Ron, you can't be serious.
Uncle Billy Loves Naomi Klein
Uncle Billy it was on T.V. some talking head was asking him stupid questions about why he was against the Paulson Bailout. Shelby told him he had a list of 150 economist's who thought it was a bad idea!, then the talking head said something about how the President had said this was now or never and Shelby just said hey he woun't be around in 4 months; plus he is no economist. Then the talking head talked about Paulson and Shelby said the same thing that Paulson woun't be here in 4 months and his sidekick BB was on a short string. Shelby said the Paulson plan was dead and the son of Paulson was also Dead.
Best I can do from memory but he said this all very matter of fact while waving the list of 150 economist.
Was a hoot...
666 Visitors Online.
Ahhhhhhh!
Simple Interest writes:
ASIAN MARKETS START TO BLEED
0.5% is only a scratch.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
CR -- You have done a lot of important work here on your blog. You have not asked for any compensation for this, so I ask:
Is there any charity you support that I could contribute to in recognition of all the efforts you and Tanta have made here?
Are the Dems being stupid believing anything a member of the Bush adm says?
I am unaware if the secret briefing by P&B to congressional leaders has been made public (sound at all familiar FICOish?)
But the Dems did believe them and so are identified with the bail-out. Now public opinion is against the bail-out. McCain walks in and as promised solves the situation. He trashes the bail-out and becomes the populist hero
Rove anyone?
As of Jun 30th, WAMu had about $31B in long term debt and $58 billion in short term/current debt, guess the haircut to bondholders about $87 Billion. Hope they had CDS....
"It dissolved into a verbal brawl in the Cabinet Room of the White House, warnings from an angry president and pleas from a Treasury secretary who knelt before the House speaker and appealed for her support. "
Paulson literaly knelt before Pelosi begging for her help?
Still don't see how this is not the very definition of "fraudulent conveyance", though."
I posted this earlier. WaMu didn't transfer any property to JPM with intent to "hinder, delay, or defraud" its creditors. The property was seized by the FDIC and then auctioned off.
Richard Fisher of the Dallas Fed said that about BB and the P-Plan! Holy smokes.
corrections?:
- They start off with $31bn in assets
- The preliminary writedowns are $36bn not $31bn
additions?:
- expect to generate $12bn more in earnings over 3 years from getting more out of WaMu branches with new sales/clients
- $2bn of merger costs over 3 years, conference call hinted this might be more (some WaMu branches don't have vaults)
- synergies will be great, remember JPM has all of its own platforms and data centers
comments: What happened to the $7.3bn in Goodwill? I'm not an accounting enthusiast, so it may just be me but is that not the most bogus line item ever? Who judges the value
question: When specifying their Tier 1 capital ratio, JPM uses their Risk Weighted Assets as the denominator. Do they ever disclose their methodologies in the 10Ks or anywhere else?
Hundreds of Economists Urge Congress Not to Rush on Rescue Plan
... ``I suspect that part of what we're seeing in the freezing up of lending markets is strategic behavior on the part of big financial players who stand to benefit from the bailout,'' said David K. Levine, an economist at Washington University in St. Louis, who studies liquidity constraints and game theory.
Hundreds of Economists Urge Congress Not to Rush on Rescue Plan - Bloomberg.com
and a good summary of the psy operation was also given by Marcy Kapur (Ohio) yesterday. IMO
motive and opportunity
If money isnt loosened up, this sucker could go down.
"We will stand free or we will fall. But if we fall it will be by our own hand and a lack of resolve, a reluctance to put aside our fears and prejudices and greed that are used to play us for fools and face the facts, and listen to the truth.
When the banks make us an offer they think that we cannot refuse, we will be at the crossroads and will decide what we wish to be: slaves or free men. Yes, it really is that simple."
F##K You and those greedy bastards Shrub!
Owner Earnings,
I was referring to the national number, just pointing out one major reason why it's wrong.
CA accounts for over 25% of the national value of RRE, so a 68% drop -- a significant part of which has not yet occurred -- will easily push the national figure up there.
Comrade NSA writes:
666 Visitors Online.
The pace is amazing... and October isn't a nice month to stocks...
Got Popcorn?
Neil
"mp question for you or conjure. What do you think of the likelihood of the following:"
Probably both of the factors you mention. As to de-leveraging, I would think that would be a side issue at this point.
Although you didn't bring it up, I'm pleased the Paulson "Plan" failed. If Congress fails to come up with a truly well-thought alternative, which I don't think they will, we'll have an opportunity to see whether the banking regulatory bureaucracy can truly function on their own during the recess.
Neil writes:
Simple Interest writes:
ASIAN MARKETS START TO BLEED
0.5% is only a scratch.
It's only a flesh wound. Besides they were running low on red ink anyway. Dow FUT -146.
"Comrade Canadaman writes:
mp question for you or conjure. What do you think of the likelihood of the following:
Is the boogeyman in this equation the fact the FED is out of money, the Primary Dealers of Govt Treasuries borrowed 200 billion meaning they are likely hugely insolvent and the Treasury is worried that all the primary dealers go away thus, the Govt not being able to fund its operations
so with all these bank deposits going to JPM is this the FED's way of delevering JPM and their 70 to 1 or so derivative exposure"
This really was a straight deal. Basically WM was overvalued by $20 billion. FDIC came in and wiped out the common, preferred, and debt (and lawsuits). Wala, JPM pays $1.9.
NCC, FITB, HBAN, KEY, ZION, STI are all next.
That Bush quote is in several articles from a simple Google search here is one.
U.S. bailout plan stalls after day of talks - The New York Times
Bush is a moron. so, everyone knows.
But "high functioning?" That's an exaggeration. Bush has never been better than mediocre at anything
LOL.
At the corner of Wilson and Harbor in Costa Mesa CA, there is a WaMu, a Wachovia, and a Downey, all within about 100 ft. of each other.
I tell my wife it's the Banking Hall of Shame.
El Jefe Nemo writes:
Note to self:
Never buy the unsecured debt of a bank.
Don't be silly. You can buy insurance against a loss like this by purchasing CDS.
Errr, never mind.
0.5% is only a scratch.
STFU
Nigeria is not in Asia
Taiwan down 2.25
korea down 2
hong down 1
It's only a flesh wound. Besides they were running low on red ink anyway. Dow FUT -146.
Rob [sucker going down] Dawg
See... Self correcting. No need for 'circuit breakers.' Just ration the red ink.
Didn't Pakistan do that? Isn't it working out so well for them...
Got Popcorn?
Neil
NCC, FITB, HBAN, KEY, ZION, STI are all next.
{taking notes} Thanks, OE!
One starts to think that Karl Rove has been fiendishly clever. Imagine, if you will, when the idea was proposed ... let's ask the Democratic congress for, say, $700 big ones. Scare the pants off 'em, get them ready to sign away anything. They'll go for it, ask for some minor changes, we'll acquiesce. Then our boys can say "No, we can't do this to America." It'll play real well with the people.
Win-win. We get re-elected, and we might even get $700B.
Fisher should be in charge of this game not BB. He's been on top of things for a while now.
"...Just being spoon fed alarmist lines from Paulson I suppose."
That's exactly what's going on with the high functioning, babbling idiot moron we have as a president. This is politics at its worst....not to say that there's no worsening credit problem to deal with, but it's nonsense to think it has to be done by tomorrow. It's taken over a year to get this far...another week or two or wait until after the election won't hurt...unless you think the markey cleansing itself is BAD. I don't.
My questions is if it is eventually ruled by court that this sale is illegal, what is going to happen? Does JPM have any liability?
"Paulson literaly knelt before Pelosi begging for her help?"
Conjure says, "Yeah, very businesslike, huh? A real dumbass."
Conjure adds, "Your tax dollars at work."
Los Angeles unemployment is already over 8%, isn't it?
Haha please. Zillow overvalues property so bad. That home you're renting will go for 175k tops.
Checked zillow again:
Riverside county, CAL
sold (new) in 2003 for $214k
resold in 2005 for $367k
current Zestimate $202
Value range: $159-206k
30-day change -9k
At the corner of Wilson and Harbor in Costa Mesa CA, there is a WaMu, a Wachovia, and a Downey, all within about 100 ft. of each other.
Run for your life! A temporal rift is about to open up at that intersection.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Well, tomorrow Chris Cox can come out and put a temporary ban on sell orders. Problem solved.
G,
If the BSC deal hasn't raised any legal alarms, this one certainly won't.
"He trashes the bail-out and becomes the populist hero"
and all in a bid to avoid the debate
This smells like snapping up continentals at pennies on the dollar while simultaneously lighting a fire under Congress to honor full price, a two-fer. It's great to be a solvent banker, a big player. Touche, Dimon!
"Comrade Bear (tj & the bear) writes:
Owner Earnings,
I was referring to the national number, just pointing out one major reason why it's wrong.
CA accounts for over 25% of the national value of RRE, so a 68% drop -- a significant part of which has not yet occurred -- will easily push the national figure up there."
The 24% number JPM uses is another 24% from here for a total US loss of 44% nationwide. That's gonna hurt.
Oh I completely forgot
I remember reading that WaMu was doing everything it could to ignore mortgages that were 90 days past due because the foreclosure would bring the losses onto their balance sheet.
Dimon said they had all the time they needed to look at WaMu but there is room for a follow-up surprise
Did FDIC just take over a 300 billion dollar bank, scrape off the deposits and other [possible] moneymaking assets, and hand them to JPM, keeping the poison for Joe Bagholder? I seem to recall reading somewheres about a cockamamie scheme the Fed had cooked up where some of that dough could have come in handy, something about 700 billion dollars...
"Neil writes:
At the corner of Wilson and Harbor in Costa Mesa CA, there is a WaMu, a Wachovia, and a Downey, all within about 100 ft. of each other.
Run for your life! A temporal rift is about to open up at that intersection."
Yeah it definitely shares characteristics with a wormhole to another universe.
Wow -- look at the price drop on these!
Blue Ridge Corporation Stock - Early Goldman Sachs Fund
Explanations:
Business & Finance: Insignificant - TIME
The crash and its aftermath: a ... - Google Books
"Checked zillow again:
Riverside county, CAL"
Shit it's in Riverside? Make that 150k.
Thu, Sep 25, 2008
Send to a friend
O'Reilly on Rep. Frank, Sen. Dodd: "I swear to God, if they were in this room right now, I would hit them"
Summary: Discussing the current financial situation on his radio program, Bill O'Reilly said of Rep. Barney Frank and Sen. Chris Dodd, "I swear to God, if they were in this room right now, I would hit them. Dodd and Frank -- the House Finance and Senate Finance. They knew. Don't point a finger at anybody, I'll break that finger off."
During the September 25 broadcast of his radio program, while discussing the current financial situation, Bill O'Reilly said: "Walk away from these liars -- these right-wing liars. Walk away from them. They're not looking out for you." Referring to Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) and Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT), O'Reilly continued: "I don't even want to talk about the far left. Barney Frank -- disgusting -- pointing fingers. It's you, you big fat toad. You, Frank -- you. Dodd, sitting there, 'Uh, we have to' -- it's you, Dodd, you. You knew." He went on to say: "I swear to God, if they were in this room right now, I would hit them. Dodd and Frank -- the House Finance and Senate Finance. They knew. Don't point a finger at anybody, I'll break that finger off."
Earlier, O'Reilly said: "It's [President] Bush's fault. It happened on Bush's watch. You know, Bush could've prevented this."
From the September 25 broadcast of Westwood One's The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly:
O'REILLY: And all of these ideologues, it gets me angry. I do talk radio and most of talk radio is conservative-dominated ideologues, Kool-Aid-drinking idiots -- idiots -- screaming at you, "This is socialism," this is this, this is that, "It's Clinton's fault." "It's Clinton's fault." "It's Clinton's fault"? Clinton hasn't been in office in eight years.
It's Bush's fault. It happened on Bush's watch. You know, Bush could've prevented this. He could've gone in easily and said, "Merrill Lynch is dealing in bad paper." He could have said that. "Merrill Lynch is dealing in bad paper." "Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac -- they're dealing in bad paper," so you, the investor, don't invest in those companies. You think they would have continued to deal in bad paper?
LIS WIEHL (co-host): I don't think so.
O'REILLY: No, they would not. One time, he had to say that. And he'd probably didn't even have to say it. He could've called them up and say, "You're dealing in bad paper, and if you don't stop it, I'm going out and telling everybody." No.
No, because he didn't want to get involved, didn't want to interfere. He didn't interfere when the oil speculators ran up the price of oil. He let them do it. He didn't come out and say, "Hey, this is bull. This is not supply and demand. This is a bunch of guys sitting there, driving it up, and you got to pay the price. That's wrong."
So, you got to believe Bush when he tells you it's bad, because Bush has just sat around and not done anything. Therefore, he has a 19-percent approval rating now. He's a decent man, ladies and gentlemen, but his last term has been a disaster. First term, I don't have a problem -- think he did a good job. Last term, my God, what happened?
But let's get back to this talk radio stuff. These idiots, I mean, they're misleading you. They're lying to you. They're rich, these guys -- big cigars, all of that. "Yeah. Oh yeah, my private jet." And they're saying, "Oh no, no bailout. Uh-uh. No way." Hey, you are gonna get it, not them. That foreign investment pulls out, we are toast.
And they'll pull out, if this bailout doesn't happen. Are you getting the message here? Walk away from these liars -- these right-wing liars. Walk away from them. They're not looking out for you.
I don't even want to talk about the far left. Barney Frank -- disgusting -- pointing fingers. It's you, you big fat toad. You, Frank -- you. Dodd, sitting there, "Uh, we have to" -- it's you, Dodd, you. You knew.
I swear to God, if they were in this room right now, I would hit them. Dodd and Frank -- the House Finance and Senate Finance. They knew. Don't point a finger at anybody, I'll break that finger off.
So, you got corruption on the right and you got corruption on the left. And who gets it? You get it. You, the hard-working person. You, the person who goes to work, invests your money, tries to do well by your family and retirement, doesn't want to leech off the government -- and did they tell you they're trafficking in bad paper? No, they don't. Did they know? They knew.
The next politician who gets up there and points a finger, I'm gonna go after them myself. Shut up. Fix it.
You know, this isn't a game here. These are people's lives. These are people's lives. I got enough money in the bank, OK? Unless a bank fails, I'm fine. But you're probably not fine. I'm lucky. And I'm tired of these charlatans on both sides lying to you, because they're ideological, Kool-Aid drinkers or corrupt toads.
And I'm talking to you, Barney Frank. Who's the guy that was, "Oh, if you don't lend money to poor people, you're a bigot?" Who was saying that, Barney?
Oh, man. I got to take a break.
craknnnnnn up......asiaaaaaa
they now realise their bond holdings are junk
So what I haven't heard yet is the potential impact of $83 billion in credit going up in a puff of smoke. Is this the start of the CDS chain reaction everyone has been trying to avoid?
Hey Neil,
Watch that intersection, you might get hit by a truck or have your wallet stolen.
hooker unemployment 25%
gotto do smthn abt it
deposits are not assets to a bank, they are liabilities.
the fdic got the occ to declare the bank insolvent and appoint dfic as receiver, took it over as receiver, and immediately sold a bunch of the assets to JPM Chase after having negotiated the deal with chase prior to the declaration of insolvency.
appoint FDIC, not dfic
wow brian...that was great. Mahalo
Simple Interest writes:
hooker unemployment 25%
gotto do smthn abt it
Simple Interest | 09.25.08 - 10:54 pm | #
--
pity that
all your BRIC funds are bust in no time
Here's the letter from the 150 economists. On the one hand, some good observations, on the other hand, criticism of a recognized problem without suggesting alternatives adds no substance to the debate.
As economists, we want to express to Congress our great concern for the plan proposed by Treasury Secretary Paulson to deal with the financial crisis. We are well aware of the difficulty of the current financial situation and we agree with the need for bold action to ensure that the financial system continues to function. We see three fatal pitfalls in the currently proposed plan:
1) Its fairness. The plan is a subsidy to investors at taxpayers expense. Investors who took risks to earn profits must also bear the losses. Not every business failure carries systemic risk. The government can ensure a well-functioning financial industry, able to make new loans to creditworthy borrowers, without bailing out particular investors and institutions whose choices proved unwise.
2) Its ambiguity. Neither the mission of the new agency nor its oversight are clear. If taxpayers are to buy illiquid and opaque assets from troubled sellers, the terms, occasions, and methods of such purchases must be crystal clear ahead of time and carefully monitored afterwards.
3) Its long-term effects. If the plan is enacted, its effects will be with us for a generation. For all their recent troubles, Americas dynamic and innovative private capital markets have brought the nation unparalleled prosperity. Fundamentally weakening those markets in order to calm short-run disruptions is desperately short-sighted.
For these reasons we ask Congress not to rush, to hold appropriate hearings, and to carefully consider the right course of action, and to wisely determine the future of the financial industry and the U.S. economy for years to come.
"McCain walks in and as promised solves the situation. He trashes the bail-out and becomes the populist hero"
Pretty much sums it up.
"TEBB writes:
deposits are not assets to a bank, they are liabilities.
the fdic got the occ to declare the bank insolvent and appoint dfic as receiver, took it over as receiver, and immediately sold a bunch of the assets to JPM Chase after having negotiated the deal with chase prior to the declaration of insolvency."
Most intersting thing is JPM had a team of 100 people in WM for months and kept it quiet. The whole thing about Goldman taking offers for the business was just a smokescreen.
China approves short selling to bolster market!
Sept. 26 (Bloomberg) -- China's cabinet agreed to let investors buy shares on credit and sell borrowed stock to help develop Asia's second-largest market after prices and trading volumes slumped, an official familiar with the plan said.
China Allows Short Sales, Margin Loans to Help Market (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
so, mccain out politico'd obama-come-lately?
nice!
"McCain walks in and as promised solves the situation. He trashes the bail-out and becomes the populist hero"
if he read his constituent mail, he had his answer.
Comrade Bagholders,
So does this mean we get two grande hoopajoots or just the el grande spiked hoopajoot?
Just curious.
Nostrovia,
I SO hope someone snapped a shot of Paulsonstein kneeling and begging before Nancy Pelosi. "Please Please Mistress - don't send me away. I am your creature. Comfort me."{
"Buying a house and buying a house on fire are two different things"
Smirk smirk smirk, Jamie Dimon.
"NCC, FITB, HBAN, KEY, ZION, STI are all next"
I was looking at ZION today. Can't short it but looked @ Jan puts. Premiums are a joke unless you know in advance they are going bust for certain.
According to WaMu's most recent 10-Q, it owed about $58 billion to the Federal Home Loan Banks.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000104746908009146/a2187197z10-q.htm
Anyone know if the FHLB gets paid back in a deal like this?
Former Vice Chm of GS about WS's meltdown and the dollar will feel the pain
its a $4TRILLION DOLLAR PROBLEM
BBC NEWS | Business | BBC News world economy debate
The FDIC is the most senior creditor of them all, that's why bondholders are getting obliterated.
That being said they chose to bundle the depositors and the mortgages & loans.
I think the creditors would have done a lot better if the business units were auctioned individually. I think the FDIC chose not to do that because they would have needed to draw on their balance sheet to make depositors whole, at least until the mortgage unit could be sold (eg after the hanky panky superfund gets passed)
What is the chance that not bundling the sale would have forced the FDIC to draw down its funds to a point where it NEEDED an infusion from the Treasury.
They keep talking about raising insurance premiums, but when are they going to do it? Are they waiting until more stable times for the financials?
oops,
thanks for uploading the text of the letter.
I agree with the princples expressed, but it is shockingly thin.
But, to put that in perspective, what is really shocking, frightening, and chilling is the utter collapse and vacuousness of this country's leadership, which must come from the White House in sitautions like this.
This must be what it feels like to live in a country where the govt collapses, like Pakistan recently, or N Korea with Kim in a coma....
"so, mccain out politico'd obama-come-lately?"
Most polls indicate that the public views McCain's "Time Out" as a purely political stunt. Now if McCain torpedoes the bailout and the markets crash he will be personally blamed. VERY high risk political gamble. (Personally I'd like to see the bailout fail, and am willing to live with the short run consequences. But the American public??)
Comrade Misean,
Might wanna turn down the juice on that SCTFH just a tad.
"Yeah it definitely shares characteristics with a wormhole to another universe.
That's where Pausonstein and BerBankie come from. A wormhole from another universe.
Carl Rove is brilliant. Just effin' brilliant. What a setup.
owner earnings - i think the fdic has simultaneous discussions with a number of institutions before a bank fails in order to see which will offer it the best deal. i'm not sure how many people they allow on site at the institution, they may just collect the data themselves and then hand it over to several institutions under confidentiality agts to look over it.
i used to be a banker, and worked for a bank that failed and was sold immediately.
rationaljeff writes: That Bush quote is in several articles from a simple Google search...
D'oh! Given the number of times I've wondered why people don't try that first, I've been hoist in my own petard. (But still, people should always give html references to quotes... just to be nice to readers!)
thx
Over the past decade, Fannie and Freddie have spent nearly $200 million on lobbying and campaign contributions.
Not wonder Congress only got so far as making "recommendations" for tighter regulations. (Classic Butt Covering)
We need to throw most of Congress out.
Now if McCain torpedoes the bailout and the markets crash he will be personally blamed. VERY high risk political gamble. (Personally I'd like to see the bailout fail, and am willing to live with the short run consequences. But the American public??)
If the markets fail, McCain loses, but Obama inherits the mess.
Comrade Bagholder Comrade Bear (tj & the bear),
"Might wanna turn down the juice on that SCTFH just a tad. ;-)"
Can't. Batteries going dead to fast. Got it plugged into a wall socket.
I'm gonna rename it Ol' Sparky. Hopefully my hair doesn't catch on fire.
Nostrovia,
So JPM has acquired WaMu's toxic portfolio. Wait a minute, aren't those loans subject of the bailout? Won't JPM be able to sell them to the government at well above the market price?
So it might well happen that having subsidized JPM's purchase of Bear Stearns, the government will now susbidize its purchase of WaMu. Doesn't it look like a trend?
"Talking about the Presidential Speech last night, Paul Begala, Clinton-Gore Strategist, just called Bush a "high functioning moron" on CNN."
Bush is definitely NOT a HIGH functioning moron. I've known high functioning morons. I live in a community filled with them. They put Bush to shame.
Just to clarify: I think Rove is a douchebag. But appearantly a brilliant douchebag.
The markets will fail either way, it's just a question of timing.
I was in a meeting this morning where there was an executive from a community bank. She was carrying on about how they were just playing politics with the bailout plan and that they needed to just get it done. I was thinking, do you not understand your bank will be totally screwed in this process?
And imagine three weeks ago, the media was fixated on Palin's 17 year old daughter and lipstick on a pig. What a bunch of dolts.
lets be clear
obama is all set to win
this bailout is the biggest chance for McCain. he has to capitalise
game theorists are all over thsi now
Evil Henry Paulson wrote:
I think the creditors would have done a lot better if the business units were auctioned individually. I think the FDIC chose not to do that because they would have needed to draw on their balance sheet to make depositors whole, at least until the mortgage unit could be sold (eg after the hanky panky superfund gets passed)
What is the chance that not bundling the sale would have forced the FDIC to draw down its funds to a point where it NEEDED an infusion from the Treasury.
You may be right on the money (ha ha.) I know of one failed bank years ago where the FDIC got the buying bank to buy even the bad assets, and then guaranteed them a certain return on those assets in order to minimize the amount the FDIC had to put up.
TulipsAllOverAgain writes:
According to WaMu's most recent 10-Q, it owed about $58 billion to the Federal Home Loan Banks.
Anyone know if the FHLB gets paid back in a deal like this?
TulipsAllOverAgain | 09.25.08 - 11:01 pm | #
Good eye. Note the FHLB is owned by member banks, this is going to kick a lot of small and medium regional banks in the nuts. Now there is a liquidity problem
Good for Flowers and others looking to buy in I suppose
"Most polls indicate that the public views McCain's "Time Out" as a purely political stunt."
and not exactly confidence-inspiring
I'm gonna rename it Ol' Sparky. Hopefully my hair doesn't catch on fire.
Dude, you gotta wet the sponge. Are you tripping alone or do you have a sitter?
TDS tonight: Jon Stewart's first "story" tonight is "clusterfk to the poor house."
Nearly eight out of 10 Americans 78% say Congress should approve a historic bailout of the nation's financial markets, but most want lawmakers to significantly modify the Bush administration's $700 billion plan, according to a new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll.
78% of Americans want a bailout but most want significant changes - USATODAY.com
"But, to put that in perspective, what is really shocking, frightening, and chilling is the utter collapse and vacuousness of this country's leadership, which must come from the White House in sitautions like this.
This must be what it feels like to live in a country where the govt collapses, like Pakistan recently, or N Korea with Kim in a coma....
"
WELL stated Joe!! Well stated indeed
Boehner and Mccain may have saved what is left of the Republican Party come what may.A friend who attended the Republican National convention told me there was a total of ONE bush item available,a mask.they had buttons avaiable for ALL of the 20th century Republican presidential candidates,NONE for bush.I wonder who will publish his autobiography,and now Eric Carle is dead who will illustrate it/
TEBB | 09.25.08 - 11:02 pm |
yeah the FDIC talks to a lot of people ... but only bankster Dimon gets the call ...
now the banksters are playing for keeps, throwing the bond holders under the bus ...
holy shit jon stewart nailed that so well.
that was amazing.
screw this bill!! it's the economic version of the iraq war.
"Bush is definitely NOT a HIGH functioning moron"
Speaking as a high functioning moron, I agree.
Nearly eight out of 10 Americans 78% say Congress should approve a historic bailout of the nation's financial markets
And what percentage of that knows what an MBS is?
"In these days we are witnessing a debate on an economic rescue aimed at resolving a crisis that risks disrupting the economy of the most developed countries and leaving thousands and thousands of families without work.
"This rescue of enormous proportions, which amounts to many times the whole of international aid, cannot but raise a pressing question. How are we able to find funds to save a broken financial system yet remain unable to find the resources necessary to invest in the development of all regions of the world, beginning with the most destitute?"
Celestino Migliore | 09.25.08 - 10:39 pm | #
STFU already.
I - and I think most other Americans - have finally had enough with the rest of the world crap.
At some level, if these folks can't get beyond clans that want to kill one another, then that's not my problem nor that of my children.
I've got enough problems with the two clans in DC.
Der Kommandant Weather Helm. There's also a Chuckie Cheese at that corner of shame, and they sell beer. They'll weather the storm
I am no expert, but isn't what happened to WM similar in principle to what John Hussman is proposing as a potential way to address the crisis?
Hose the equity holders (and clip the bondholder liabilities), and write off the bad loans, and the bank emerges as a semi-solvent entity?
What is the catch in handling the crisis in this way?
About that letter from all those economists. How many of them predicted this? Thought so.
Here's the best explanation of the financial crisis, Wile E. Coyote - style. Check it out:
Wile E Coyote Government meets Financial Crisis - iTulip.com
What is the catch in handling the crisis in this way?
Stirner
People like Bill Gross will lose billions?
Comrade Bagholder CSC,
"Dude, you gotta wet the sponge. Are you tripping alone or do you have a sitter?"
Dude I did at a time long ago 5 grams of shrooms at once..and a different time 4 hits of some stamp stuff...solo...
The stamp stuff got iffy during the peak...but mostly laughing my as off.
Too old for it anymore...Vodka and beer is all I got left.
Nostrovia,
"And what percentage of that knows what an MBS is?"
It's clearly an Orwellian rectification, a made up poll.
Thanks, Glenn, but I'm only sweeping up the dust behind the searing image of Paulson down on his knees in front of Pelosi.
I bought 100 rounds for my rifle. I hope it's enough to protect me and mines...
why did john mccain, who told us all he didn't know much about economics, go get himself in the middle of delicate negotiations over the bailout bill?
i haven't heard him say one definitive thing about what ought to be done, but he had to rush right up there.
Hose the equity holders (and clip the bondholder liabilities), and write off the bad loans, and the bank emerges as a semi-solvent entity?
What is the catch in handling the crisis in this way?
I dunno; some folks in Riyadh, Tokyo, and Beijing might have issues. Kind of hard to actively screw bondholders when we've got a negative savings rate.
From John Robb
Global Guerrillas
"The Looting
It's instructive to view the US Treasury's plans for a bail-out of the global financial system through the lens of the hollow state. By this measure, the bailout as it stands today, is a form of financial looting of the US Treasury (it isn't socialism, since the government isn't nationalizing the financial system). Trillions of dollars in government monies ($700 billion to begin with) will be infused directly into the coffers of corporations and wealthy individuals (via hedge funds). Specifically, the plan buys toxic assets at inflated prices and sells them back for nearly nothing -- no equity or assets of real value are provided in exchange for the purchase. The national debt will likely grow 20-30% in a single year, with obligations extended to many trillions more in guarantees.
Given this, one potential next step forward is a decline the credit rating of US debt (which radically increases the costs of US borrowing), a collapse in the dollar relative to more stable global currencies, and a rapid decline in government services. Other scenarios achieve the same result with different timing. Regardless, our (the US and the UK) journey to a hollow state has officially begun."
So Morgan is valuing the entire loan portfolio of WaMu at 83 cents on the dollar???? and that's with HELOCs as 34% of the portfolio mix??
Does that seem a little, um, optimistic to anybody (unless you can sell off the trash to TARP?)
"If money isnt loosened up, this sucker could go down"
Who is the sucker? The economy? A big financial?
Paulsen on his knees is taller than Pelosi.
Mike
go get at least 900 more.
"most of the polls..."
yeah, right.
"Thanks, Glenn, but I'm only sweeping up the dust behind the searing image of Paulson down on his knees in front of Pelosi."
Now that's an image I can't bear to think about! LOL Gosh oh mighty, how did it get to this point that our leaders are so pathetic?
Neil:
Yeah, scary stuff. I used to think the same thing. But after getting through 9/11 and all the other stuff, you'll survive this.
Recall a conversation with an older friend who's first child was born in late 1973 and they were terrified of the world into which they were bring their child.
have a nice night with your girl.
Hnery Paulson doesn't really know what a MBS is, and certainly doesn't know what any of them are worth. So give the common folks a break.
The ground is swelling for New Deal II, not Ron Paul's laissez-faire system.
The failure of the Bush bailout - failure to pass it or, if passed, its failure to solve the problem - sets the stage for a major leftward social democratic shift.
If we're really lucky, we'll TGV trains, French vacations, German healthcare (comes with massages, not shitting ya) and a host of other improvements.
Wow, John Boehner, who'da thunk it.
If only the Republican party had some principles after 9/11 rather than at the 11th hour and 59th minute, the Republic might not be at the doorstep of ruin.
Chase, not Morgan. Sorry
Ooops I did it again writes:
Here's the letter from the 150 economists. On the one hand, some good observations, on the other hand, criticism of a recognized problem without suggesting alternatives adds no substance to the debate.
The point is: many thinks that rushing the process has been part of the strategy. If that is the case, in addition to being shaky, the proposal is suspect. And it is just one more example on a long list, of a highly predictable event (freeze) for which a solution should have been discussed-prepared a long time ago, not just presented hastily. This is so ludicrous it is insulting.
I am sure they (economists) have alternatives ready for discussion.
I am actually for the first time actually getting really scared here. I don't think I will ever be able to buy a home in this current turmoil. I thought things were bad 6 months ago. I can't even perceive what the next 3 weeks will be like.
I am working outside the country the next few weeks I am wonder what I will come back too...
Trance writes:
"If money isnt loosened up, this sucker could go down"
Who is the sucker? The economy? A big financial?
I think it's Rachel Maddow.
Where's CITI bank ?
they are even more insolvent than JP Morgan ... At least Jaime is pretending his level 3 don't stink but CITI has even more ...
"why did john mccain, who told us all he didn't know much about economics, go get himself in the middle of delicate negotiations over the bailout bill?
i haven't heard him say one definitive thing about what ought to be done, but he had to rush right up there."
"the fundamentals of the economy are strong"
Looking through the owners of WM's bonds, it looks to be mostly insurance companies. A diversified group. The largest exposures based on >3% holdings in each bond tranche:
Western Asset Mgt $64mln
American Life $67mln
AXA $51 mln
Genworth $41 mln
AIG (you & me) $33mln
Pacific Mutual $32mln
Also holders of Vanguard LT Bond and ishare bond funds got $30-40mln hits each.
Nothing overly serious. Most holdings were as of June 2008.
STFU already.
I - and I think most other Americans - have finally had enough with the rest of the world crap.
At some level, if these folks can't get beyond clans that want to kill one another, then that's not my problem nor that of my children.
I've got enough problems with the two clans in DC.
homedad43 | Homepage | 09.25.08 - 11:09 pm | #
Many of us in the rest of the world are finally having enough of the whole "America is no 1" crap.
You need us. America has pissed off our investments, and if you're not careful we'll pull them out altogether.
Then see if you can buy some cheap stuff at Wal Mart... if you have a job.
A top U.S. bank regulator said on Thursday her agency acted swiftly to find a buyer for struggling mortgage lender Washington Mutual Inc to quell customer anxiety fueled by media leaks.
Media leaks pushed US FDIC to find WaMu buyer--Bair
| Reuters
FDIC will lie to you!
Might wanna turn down the juice on that SCTFH just a tad.
speaking of google. The only half-way reasonable expansion of that acronym it comes up with is "St. Croix Team Fishing Hat".
It must be Surreality Thursdays at google.
No, what McCain really meant to say was, "The fundamentals of the economy WERE strong, long ago, in a galaxy far away . . ."
Comrade Bagholder Mike?,
Hell I buy just 10 milli rounds by the 1000. 100? Good friggin' luck.
Nostrovia,
"If the bondholders are wiped out, doesn't this mean the CDS will come into play? And how many of those will fail?"
Excellent question, but no one knows the answer. The CDS market is entirely unregulated and there is no transparency, none.
I expect rate cut 100bps and an all-clear for raiding 401ks without penalty for all J6Ps.
Peasant Darkness,
LOL! It's the "Super Colander Tin Foil Hat", a Misean exclusive.
Why is everyone starting from the fatally flawed Treasury proposal from last weekend, and the trying to "fix" a fatally flawed approach?: Jusr simply enact a new stimulus plan that gives every taxpayer a check for $5,000, and that injection will be a more efficient solution that the inanae Treasury pla
NC writes:
I am sure they (economists) have alternatives ready for discussion.
Haaaaaaaaa. You can't get 3 or more economists together to agree on a course of action, much less 150. That's why the letter is like it is....they can agree to be broadly critical, but it would have been too long to put in all 150 alternatives.
I am working outside the country the next few weeks I am wonder what I will come back too...
Ask to be paid in Euros. We always do. Haven't regretted it yet.
bearly writes:
I expect rate cut 100bps and an all-clear for raiding 401ks without penalty for all J6Ps.
Go long 30 packs!
One Salient Oversight,
Indeed.
As i've said before, this is Salvador Allende's revenge. Make the American economy scream -- Kissinger's words about Chile that are going to bite the US on the ass harder than some people understand is possible.
LOL! It's the "Super Colander Tin Foil Hat", a Misean exclusive.
Ah... thanks. That explains it. I took my tin foil to the scrap yard to make the last mortgage payment.
"I am no expert, but isn't what happened to WM similar in principle to what John Hussman is proposing as a potential way to address the crisis?
"Hose the equity holders (and clip the bondholder liabilities), and write off the bad loans, and the bank emerges as a semi-solvent entity?
"What is the catch in handling the crisis in this way?"
That is exactly what Hussman says, and that is exactly what is supposed to happen.
The catch is that your pension fund and your life insurance company are holding the bonds.
I am actually for the first time actually getting really scared here. I don't think I will ever be able to buy a home in this current turmoil. I thought things were bad 6 months ago. I can't even perceive what the next 3 weeks will be like.
Wait a few years - housing will be cheap.
Where is the FBI, the SEC, the Police, Congress? Why haven't the executives of WAMU been arrested? Why aren't subpoenas being served at WAMU headquarters?
Comrade Mike writes:
I bought 100 rounds for my rifle. I hope it's enough to protect me and mines...
About 3x that -- 10 mags. A Mossberg 500 18" home defense shotgun is MUCH MUCH better that a rifled-bore longarm or handgun if you are defending your home and not playing infantryman.
was paulson's head moving back and forth, rumor has it she pees standing up
Er
"McCain Comment
McCain's campaign said more negotiations were needed to draft legislation that would pass Congress.
``There is not yet a majority of Democrats and Republicans who are willing to vote yes for anything,'' said Steve Schmidt, a senior adviser to McCain's campaign.
Kevin Smith, a spokesman for House Republican Leader John Boehner, said the speed with which Dodd's plan was put together was designed ``to deny Senator McCain a role in trying to craft a bipartisan solution.''
Cantor was told by Boehner to start working on an alternative two days ago, Smith said. Pelosi was told today.
Michele Davis, a spokeswoman for Paulson, said, ``Secretary Paulson appreciates the hard work by members on both sides of the aisle to address the threat we face to our economy,'' and urged lawmakers to resolve their differences."
Paulson has not rejected any ideas, Davis said.
TPG stake wiped out, buyout firm says loss disappointing
TPG stake wiped out, buyout firm says loss disappointing
| Reuters
Boom
I frankly don't give a damn if I am in a soup line the rest of my life as long as Jamie Diamond and Chuck Prince are there with me.
"Too old for it anymore...Vodka and beer is all I got left."
Comrade Misean
I plan to play with my stamp collection this weekend.
I hope I never get so old that my love for Mary fades. A good drug of choice, IMO. That alcohol is a tool of Babylon to keep I and I separate, man.
(Although I think Jah is chill with Red Stripe.)
"I am actually for the first time actually getting really scared here. I don't think I will ever be able to buy a home in this current turmoil."
Why would you want to? Buying a house will be MUCH cheaper than renting in a year or two.
I've been wondering who to vote for for president, seeing as how I'm for "neither of the above". I was thinking of writing in Ron Paul, but now I'm thinking - that's a waste. He'll never win.
So I'm thinking of writing in a bank. They run the country anyway. Maybe I'll write in JPMorgan. It's probably more efficient to actually appoint a bank as president and get on with it, than to pretend anyone other than a bank is in charge here.
Comrade Bagholder Peasant Darkness,
"speaking of google. The only half-way reasonable expansion of that acronym it comes up with is "St. Croix Team Fishing Hat"."
Super Colander Tin Foil Hat is the reference. Unfortunately my personal server is down...
Google cached this
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:LA1nqWbzY3AJ:www.thetinfoilhatter.com/blogs/blog1.php/2008/07/19/the-super-colendar-tin-foil-hat+super+colander+tin+foil+hat&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a
FWIW,
Nostrovia,
Dear Senator,
I am writing you one more time in hopes that you can stop the $700 billion Paulson bailout plan. We all know that Paulsons Plan can not possibly work. Over the past few months the Paulson and Bernanke bailouts (Bear Stearns, Fannie, Freddie and AIG) have not achieved their intended stabilizing purposes. This bailout will not achieve its intended purpose either. Bailouts can only harm free markets and they send the wrong message to both taxpayers and corporate America.
If Wall Street, the Fed, the Treasury, the Congress and the President believe that our financial innovations run so deep that the wisdom of the free market can not solve them, I doubt that the government can solve them either. Maybe we need to announce the death of American finance and entrepreneurship .or admit that the Chinese are right, we are not deserving of the reserve currency status. Senator this plan is ridiculous, the President is WRONG, The Fed is WRONG, the Treasury is WRONG, Warren Buffet is WRONG and Bill Gross is WRONG. Wall Street does not need a bailout. Nor does it need a solvency plan, solvency tax or solvency fund. We need to let American enterprise solve its own problems without government meddling. We are Americans, we believe in a capitalism, we believe in free markets, our dollar is the worlds reserve currency, lets get government out of the way and prove to the world that we are worthy of these ideals!!!
Thank You
"A Mossberg 500 18" home defense shotgun is MUCH MUCH better ..."
You can also use it as a crowbar.
One Salient Oversight:
Please, do.
At least a simple majority of the people in the USA won't really notice that much. Certainly the vast majority that live and work and breed in the despicable "flyover" states won't notice that much at all. They are already hunkering down. The recession in those areas started in 1970's and really hasn't let up much over the last 35 years as manufacturing exits the USA at an ever-increasing rate.
They know there is a depression coming, no matter the clowns in DC do or do not do. It's self-evident.
So go ahead, take your money and go. We'll be fine here in USA.
Mossberg 500 18" home defense shotgun is MUCH MUCH better that a rifled-bore longarm or handgun if you are defending your home and not playing infantryman.
Agreed. Although Ithaca.
A large dog is essential too. They hear and react before you even stir from your sleep.
A large dog is essential too. They hear and react before you even stir from your sleep.
Check!
My reading of WM is that they are taking the loans and booking another $31 billion in losses.
So, basically, the FDIC wrote down the WM loans $31 billion before JPM would take them.
A little less then another 20% of the problem classes for a loss ratio (booked) in the mid 30% of loans.
They HAVE to be thinking that they won't have to write them down again for another year or two.
The combined capital ratios decline a bit, which isn't reassuring. They will need to raise capital, IMO.
Also, noticed their Texas stuff. Left over from the S&L energy meltdown. If they could do it in Texas in the early 1990's, they must think they can do it now.
WaMu didn't transfer any property to JPM with intent to "hinder, delay, or defraud" its creditors. The property was seized by the FDIC and then auctioned off.
How many buyers were at the auction?
One?
rationaljeff writes:
I am actually for the first time actually getting really scared here. I don't think I will ever be able to buy a home in this current turmoil. I thought things were bad 6 months ago. I can't even perceive what the next 3 weeks will be like.
I am working outside the country the next few weeks I am wonder what I will come back too...
rationaljeff | 09.25.08 - 11:16 pm | #
Yeah, I'm scared too, but your comment made me think of Finance 303 in 1983. Rates @ 15+% and high unemployment and listening to the professor and thinking, I'll never be able to afford a house.
Go overseas for awhile and take a break from this.
A ten gauge pump is your true weapon of choice with home loaded pichinko balls.
I love the label!!!!!
This probably has already been said, but we're a bunch of "suckers"? For once Bush is right!
OwnershipSociety writes:
How many buyers were at the auction?
Apparently they don't know and they don't care.
A little hint:
Don't ever....ever....EVER, trust a guard dog. 90+ % of my victims say their dog ALWAYS barks and doens't like stranger. My answer: So why are you a victim.
The house we're renting on zillow is valued at zero.
Wait, why am I paying 7500/mo for this shiatbox?
Ooops I did it again writes:
Haaaaaaaaa. You can't get 3 or more economists together to agree on a course of action, much less 150. That's why the letter is like it is....they can agree to be broadly critical, but it would have been too long to put in all 150 alternatives.
Well I guess the politicians would have to do what some of us do every day when we synthesize news and opinions from all sides and all continents and make-derive our own decisions. It is not about following it is about listening, analyzing and integrating
Anyone want to make a pool to buy a large plot of land in Patagonia and grow sheep / make wine ?
CSC-
I'll be in your neck o the woods next week...midweek. Lunch/Dinner?? Don't know where you reside but I'll be around Anaslime Tu.We.TH.
Pick a place and meet?..it's on me.
Ciao
MS
Comrade Bagholder CSC,
"I hope I never get so old that my love for Mary fades."
I get headaches from it now. Sad. I can do shrooms, but a whole day recovery afterwards kinda kills it for me. Stamps are right out...too long. I'll still do a bit of shroomies on a 3 day weekend or vacation if they're mild and around.
Nostrovia,
Don't ever....ever....EVER, trust a guard dog.
They obviously didn't have the right kind of dog.
Yahoo Headline:
"Republican lawmakers stall urgent efforts to lash together a national economic rescue plan"
Glad to see that Yahoo isn't taking sides on whether we should do this bailout or not. With the impartial media not taking sides, it's so easy to keep public discourse focused on the problem at hand.
NOT.
Isn't the system working as designed? Bank runs are being prevented by the feds lending. The emergency lending is working.. Maybe Bernanke and Paulson are panicking because they are so close to that action? All the cash flowing thru their office is spooking them?
Anyone know if the FHLB gets paid back in a deal like this?
Wasn't it less than 2 weeks ago that the Treasury extended an essentially unlimited credit line to FHLB?
Which I think answers your question, in a roundabout way.
You need us. America has pissed off our investments, and if you're not careful we'll pull them out altogether.
Then see if you can buy some cheap stuff at Wal Mart... if you have a job.
We own the land and I for one would be happy to become a martyr of the Republic maiming and killing countless young men and women of your nation if you send them here to occupy us.
Anything short of occupation is merely a gesture. Who cares bout a few years of economic hardship? That's history. Accident of geography has made us one of history's great cultures. Get used to us, the same way you can get used to China -- who, you will soon learn, are equally culturally overbearing, for equally good reasons.
By all means, cut off the cheap crap and force us to develop internally, we really need it.
God, I finally got to the end of the posts.
What is gold at?
Tulips--see the tipjar.
Spousal unit getting testy.
See y'all tomorrow for the Next installment of the End of the World.
If money isnt loosened up, this sucker could go down.
President Bush, Sept 25, 2008
Dang it. I jus wanna shop. That's all, jus keep dem terrerists away can ya
albrt writes:
"I am no expert, but isn't what happened to WM similar in principle to what John Hussman is proposing as a potential way to address the crisis?
LOL ... you know who is insolvent ?
Citi , Jp, BAC , Wells, Goldman, Morgan S ... the whos who of bankerstdom ...
The bank failures of the Depression swallowed up almost all really small banks. It looks like another round of consolidation into super-mega-banks is underway, even as some these big ones have problems of their own.
I hate to threadjack, but since people keep talking about the Hanky-Panky-Superfund.
Bill Gross talked about optimistic returns being 12-13% annually, IF bought at 60 cents on the dollar. He is probably implying that the greater economy will be strong due to exports and a weak dollar.
Paulson(/Bernanke) have been hinting at a target of 70 cents on the dollar.
So Paulson plans to offer 17% above what Gross would. I think that is very telling and supports CR's supposition this is a stealth handout to the tune of $300bn as originally proposed.
Comrade Bear (tj & the bear) writes:
Don't ever....ever....EVER, trust a guard dog.
They obviously didn't have the right kind of dog.
Comrade Bear (tj & the bear) | 09.25.08 - 11:33 pm | #
--
no shit, got a chocolate lab and a rotti, would trust them with my life.
To protect your home, shotgun good, handgun better. Get fast moving rounds to pierce the walls. Handgun gives better mobility throughout the house. If you are a crook, get a rifle. Stand across the street and shoot the guy in the window holding a handgun. Make sure you practice because when I show up, I'm going to shoot the guy with a rifle. And I've been practicing my entire life.
The quote sounds like what BJ would say to Monica. I don't get it.
"I am actually for the first time actually getting really scared here."
Again, where were you circa 2005? Now most of us are just mildly annoyed.
KABOOM!
Why would you want to? Buying a house will be MUCH cheaper than renting in a year or two.
Groundhogday | 09.25.08 - 11:27 pm | #
I am scared if I will have anything left in two years.
does anyone here have a clue as to what the Repub alternate plans are and how they would work? Insurance or loan plans?
haven't those sort of mechanisms melted down already? For it to work it would have be done like the Paulson Plan was intended to be executed - ie not at market rates, because market rates equal bankruptcy.
so how is it an alternative?
Nationalization is an alternative.
Giving the money directly to people with incomes under some level, e.g. maybe $200K incomes, that would be an alternative (Paulson isn't the only one who pull numbers out of his ass).
A giant public works stimulus could be an alternative to generate employment, wage growth, invest directly in firms, and build new industries and infrastructure.
But insurance or loans? How?
matt,
LOL! That lab'll open the door and give'em a guided tour!
wamu wasn't on the FDIC PROBLEM INSTITUTION LIST ...
isn't that .. weird ..
Latest on bail out from Reuters - 11:16 PM...Frank says Dems have a plan.
Democrats claim Wall St. bailout breakthrough
| Reuters
arroyogrande writes:
Glad to see that Yahoo isn't taking sides on whether we should do this bailout or not. With the impartial media not taking sides, it's so easy to keep public discourse focused on the problem at hand.
That's right big creek, if weez jus killed all dem terriest dumbocrats, dis wurld wuld be much better
I am scared if I will have anything left in two years.
Gold, oil, Yen, Euro. They will all go up when USD goes down.
Comrade Guhusers,
I have a Browning automatic. I suggest you look into them.
But shot is more important.
My magazine has...
00 buck
Dear slug
00 buck.
That'll do ya.
All the while gas operated shot guns hardly kick...
10 milli Glock in other hand firing madly.
Heh...
Hasta la Vista...Baby!
Nostrovia,
Paulson kneeling before Pelosi is a fitting image for the last gasp of a lame duck administration. Paulson knows Bush is washed up, even while Bush is still pitching his "plan".
"I hope I never get so old that my love for Mary fades."
You may find eventually that you can get to where Mary is bringing you without her. After that, she's kinda in the way.
ymmv.
Re: this sucker could go down
Yah, and The Iraq War may need to be halted soon too. Makes me wonder why we can spend a few trillion there and not take care of America today!
Comrade Bear (tj & the bear) writes:
matt,
LOL! That lab'll open the door and give'em a guided tour!
Comrade Bear (tj & the bear) | 09.25.08 - 11:37 pm | #
--
yeah right to his hungry younger brother!
actually, they are both angels. i'm screwed.
tis okay, god made all men different, smith & wesson made em equal.
Ziggurat,
You're off in your reading. They gain assets, and with current markdowns they are near even. Under the worst-case, 20% further housing decline, the additional losses are $18bn
This is offset by the $12bn in new earnings they hope to generate from the new branches.
In the end they probably will have paid $25bn to acquire WaMu
They will have to raise capital as mandated by the OTS to boost Tier 1 ratio, that amount is $8bn and they plan to offer on the open market Friday.
Glad to see this didnt get rammed through.
I think the dollar will be better off without the bailout.
Paulson is on his knees alright.
Re: "Buying a house and buying a house on fire are two different things"
Your insurance adjuster can tell the difference!
Dogs are not on alert all the time. They work in shifts like people. A good dope sniffer will work for about 20 minutes and have to take a break. Your dog at home, sleeps most the day away and is not "on guard" like you think. He might be mean and bark alot, but that is on his time.
I am suddenly getting "unable to access" messages on our 401k accounts, managed by Fidelity. I am suspicious. Are they blocking access to prevent a run?
Again, where were you circa 2005? Now most of us are just mildly annoyed.
I was actually not in a position to buy a home then, and was wondering how the hell everyone else was doing it.
But now I am in a position, and being in the Bay Area, it has taken some time to get myself in that position, and now the world is falling down around me.
After thinking about my comment though, and your responses, maybe I am in a prime position to just sit back (I hope I can and don't loose my job's) and take advantage of the bottom of this disaster in 2 years as you guys say.
It is scary times though.
A giant public works stimulus could be an alternative to generate employment, wage growth, invest directly in firms, and build new industries and infrastructure.
Building a mixture of wind, solar and geothermal power stations to replace the coal and nuclear ones would be a start.
Investing heavily in an open source / public domain electric car design would also be good.
MS: I am in Minn. next week for a rare family slugfest. Are you visiting Anaheim or do you live there? I am just south.
Are we there yet?
(btw, the reuters reporter is uninformed -- thinks Frank is a senator)
Handgun gives better mobility throughout the house.
I thought that was the beauty of a sawed-off shotgun.
Unless you go to the range once a month . . . and if you like that, that's great . . .can you really depend on aiming a handgun in a crisis? or is crazy gentleman/lady running wild with handgun sufficient deterrent?
i love it when the CR posters start talking weaponry!
somehow gold and guns just GO together
Woah - connecting the dots implies there is a (for now hypothetical) taxpayer bailout of FHLB to the tune of $60B.
Yuck.
One Salient Oversight writes:
Gold, oil, Yen, Euro. They will all go up when USD goes down.
Only one of those will. Visit my homepage to see the winner.
I think the dog has to be in the house. If the dog is outside the person can throw it some tasty chicken or beef or something to distract it.
However, a good house dog will react to anything it hears outside.
Latest on bail out from Reuters - 11:16 PM...Frank says Dems have a plan.
That was yesterday night, not now.
I wish there had been a camera on in that Cabinet with the big power players having a verbal brawl when said plan collapsed. That's a reality show I'd watch! Bonus entertainment points if Paulson literally knelt before Nancy, although I think that's metaphorical.
Sir Robert Peel: Are you LE? If so, are you going to track me down? I have many sworn family members if it'll get me a break.
i just read all of the last two threads while drinking pint of straight rye...
i dont know if watching the train wreck is better sober or straight...ugh
head hurts, its all startin to feel like endless re-runs of the movie jeremiah johnson
without supra natural intervention tomorrow will be ugly
good bye
AK-47s. Cheap, reliable, plentiful.
"Paulson deal is welfare for the rich"
Jim Rogers
Bloomberg