WaMU had listed in their recent financials $296b in net assets (not marked to market.....incredible when you put a real market value on thier assets...the firm is worth ZERO!!!!!!!!!! Thnk about how many other banks lokk like this!!!!!
WaMu goes WABOOOOOM. 28 billion in debt now worth pennies on the dollar.
How much in the way of CDS were written on this debt?
Who knows?
Suspicions are several hundred billion. Now folks will go to the protection seller and ask for them to pay up, they will go to their counterparty who will go to their counterparty....
For Lehman FED advanced a few hundred billion stealth style to unwind the trades, I don't see that happening here... FED is running out of bullets.
This is a wildfire that the Paulson plan was supposed to be able to set up a firewall for.
It is a wildfire that if not contained will burn down a lot of homes
A hypothetical question: suppose that part of the deal is replacement of Paulson by a highly respected nonpartisan guy. Who should that be? I would think Volker would be the obvious choice. Anybody else?
" Ah... uh...... you see... BOOOOOOOOO... ah... national securty.... ah.... BOOOOO.....uh...... be scared....um.....Millions of jobs lost.... plummeting house prices....uh "
There is no disagreement that something must be done. We are going to get a package passed. Republicans and Democrats will come together and pass a substantial rescue plan.
Nobody, absolutely nobody, is above the law in this great country.
By the way, I have an IPO that I hope is worth some US$100,000,000.
I want each member of Congress, plus Mr. Bernanke, plus Mr. Bush, to trust my good faith, and provide me with the require capital for it. No need for stocks or proportional ownership of any type. Simply trust me that all will be just fine and we all will profit from it. Just trust me. Pure trust. You know me well.
My guess is that they were afraid and it was set up for a bank holiday if necessary. Turned out not to be necessary and so he just said something noncommital and looked stupid.
what was the purpose really, maybe we do need some kind of plan, but
real main street america is thinking y2k duct tape mushroom clouds
there is no confidence
Market finally got around to price discovery on WAMU, assets are worth zero.
Thank goodness WAMU was the only one........
BWAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
What do you think JP Morgan with 1.4T in mortgages and the largest (multi-trillion) derivative exposure on the planet has in terms of net assets if the assets were marked honestly?
SS writes:
My guess is that they were afraid and it was set up for a bank holiday if necessary. Turned out not to be necessary and so he just said something noncommital and looked stupid.
Im a republican, and voted for bush. Going into iraq was the right thing at the time, they just bungled it. At least he had the balls to do what needed to be done then.
There is no disagreement that something must be done. We are going to get a package passed. Republicans and Democrats will come together and pass a substantial rescue plan.
Maybe the whole problem is that congress keeps spending money the US doesn't have thereby destroying the "credit rating" of the nation as a whole.
President Bush: Get on the phones, call your Senator , tell them to support the bill while Congress is still in session. This offer WILL NOT LAST, operators are standing-by.....CALL NOW
Glad you did post the link. We need to see our leaders as they cope. This is invaluable as a teaching exercise.
To others: what else is Bush going to say right now? The fight has finally emerged into the light, its going to be tumultuous, and he can't control it.
Chinese must have called him overnight. Forget the banks: bond markets gonna join the fun! If the last "safe" haven, Treasuries, start spiking due to Chinese and Russian dumping, it's game, set, match, d d d d d depression.
I run a business, it funds itself out of profits.. I don't need a fucking bank to charge me 15% on a running balance to survive..
Interestingly, many businesses run on the difference between the interest they pay and the "profit" they make. The principal or loan in this case is used for working capital or capital expenses to set up the business and keep it running. These businesses either pay the loan down over time or roll it over. It's really quite common.
"You see, there's this country called Wall Street, and they've developed these Weapons of Mass Destruction. They're called CDSs, MBSs, CDOs, and derivative. You see, if we don't attack them soon, our cities will go up in smoke as this Wall Street country attacks our cities with these WMDs.
I propose we bomb Wall Street with Cash Bombs. I think 700 Cash bombs, filled with $1 billion each, should do the trick. Like a regular carpet bombing, only with cash.
Then we will have defeated the evil terrorists on Wall Street. I think this war will only cost the US Taxpayer about $20 billion total, and should last only 6 months.
Afterward, we can drill for oil in Wall Street to pay us back for the $20 billion cost of this war.
From Christmas Vacation, this perfectly encapsulates GWB, too:
[after Clark fails at lighting all the exterior Christmas lights at the "lighting ceremony" in front of the entire family]
Frances: Talk about pissing your money away. I hope you kids see what a silly waste of resources this was.
Audrey: He worked really hard, Grandma.
Art: So do washing machines.
"Doesn't any business in america today that makes money have, you know, SAVINGS that they can use to finance themselves?"
Anonymous | 09.26.08 - 9:53 am | #
Our CFO talked to us a couple of weeks ago. Were are looking to purchase more assets in the trucking industry. His exact words "We have cash for aquisitions, but the prices need to come to us"
He was ALWAYS a jerk. I recall the comment of Yale classmate when he became President to the effect that it was utterly unbelievable that such a doofus would ever become President. He was more or less a joke at Yale and never rose above sideline cheerleader. Once a doofus always a doofus whatever desk you are put behind.
There is no panic in the market. It is down as is logical. There is time to sort this all out and do it right, if you need to do anything. The Paulson hustle has been called, I think.
Interestingly, many businesses run on the difference between the interest they pay and the "profit" they make.
I understand that: someone buys a business with a bank loan and their own money, then profit is the return after paying interest on the loan.
But that loan can't be recalled, right, if it is in good standing? I just don't see why so many main street businesses are so vulnerable EACH DAY to what their bank wants to lend them anew.
==============================
To the hard working folks of America: I have failed as your president, and while Dick can bully, he can't really lead, so we are announcing the following changes to stabilize the Market.
Treasury Secretary Paulson has resigned, effective immediately. Congressman Ron Paul will take over as interim Secretary of Treasury, with explicit instructions to not go back to the gold standard.
Fed Chairman Bernanke has also resigned, and we should all applaud for his distinguished services to his country. Peter Schiff has been appointed acting Fed Chairman. Peter's qualification for the job is clear: He has been right, and Ben has been wrong.
I have instructed the FBI to form a special task force of "Homeland Financial Security". The FBI will soon have over 2,000 agents investigating the fraudulent practices over the last 8 years, starting from the Wall Street CEOs, down to the Main Street liars on Mortgage fraud activities. We will clean house, literally.
I will work with Congress, in a bi-partisan fashion, to find an interim replacement for myself for the remainder of my term.
This is a tough crisis, and this sucker can go down any time. But America is strong and resilient, and we can get through this once people can depend on their leaders on telling the truth, and the justice system for prosecuting the criminals.
One of his best speeches. I wonder why he didn't just call it a weekend and go cut brush back in Texas. If I were him I would - tell Hank to call him & leave a message if something changes.
They are never going to gain the ascent of the people until they are honest with themselves and call it a bailout. By calling it a rescue they've alienated enough of the electorate such that threatens any action with tangible response. I'm thinking "Alice's Restaurant." Everybody with a W-2 increases their witholding. Since money seems to be the only thing that they listen to let's see what an immediate and large plunge in receipts does.
All smoke. The PPT managed to borrow 200 B from the Chinese last night to cover the drop this morning. They need to maintain the illusion of stability for all of Friday. Problem is it amy not work.........
Are you guys joking about the "PPT" because if you are right, the PPT should be pushing the market heavily down in order to prove their thesis that 700b is needed RIGHT NOW.
The flaw in the plan IMO is ignoring the certainty of a deep recession by applying a $700b hit to taxpayers. Thus the argument reduces to "Give us $700b and we promise you a recession. You only alternative is keeping your $700b and there will be a recession."
Rob [sucker going down] Dawg writes:
They are never going to gain the ascent of the people until they are honest with themselves and call it a bailout
Yup - that and show REAL job loss not hypothetical job loss.
We'll get a bailout - sometime next March no matter who is President - but by then we really should have our head around the consequences after the commercial paper doesn't roll over.
Anecdote: a company I work with put in an order for a multi-million dollar custom machine... sizable down payment, rest due upon completion & installation. Lead-time was about a year so it was ordered last year.
Machine was finished last month - company can't buy it because they can't roll over debt - on the verge of default (banks are in process of writing down something like $5MM on roll over to get done)... Machine builder stuck with a custom machine they can should be able to sell but take time & discount. They have CP issues of their own.
If I was in a more forgiving mood, I'd actually feel sorry for W. He's clearly a broken man. It's pretty clear that the backoffice lads are having him trot out a teleprompted speech (does he actually get to see them first?) periodically since you really need the President to make the public speeches.
But there appears to be a disconnect between his state of mind and what's on the prompter - hence such terms as "House of Cards" slipping in during one of his comments he made earlier.
Couple this with the hard break with most Rep officials against the administration and there is a real power vacuum problem at the moment.
Cobradriver writes:
The great roll over continues...
dryfly | 09.26.08 - 10:14 am | #
Seriously??
I know some people in PE that might be able to help. If interested let me know and I'll get you an email...
Chris
Cobradriver | 09.26.08 - 10:21 am | #
PE guys are involved already - they are up to their eyeballs in it - they are the ones wanting to roll over - the principals levered to make the return attractive and now are levered as high as they dare go... any more and they throw in the keys.
~200 folks lose jobs when that happens. I think they will avert it but only if they can roll over the existing paper (they will NOT buy that machine in this environment regardless).
Oh - and they tried to lease machines - no one will do it until the credit markets unclog - SOMEBODY has to fund them & w/out credit its a no go.
Dry,
I've a feeling manufacturing capacity hardware in the US will be a lot more attractive in the very near future between targeted stimuli and dollar weakness. Even if that means boxing it up and sending it to Chindia. [p.s. I live about 5 miles from Haas Automation.]
If Paulson Plan doesn't happen... not sure if in diluted form it will do any good... the next firewall is the NY FED. If they don't seize and force the shadow fisherman to 'net out'.... well I can say with confidence that
Many of you who criticize the POTUS speech are correct. The reason it was late is that "THEY" would not allow his original message-presented below:
Arise, you prisoners of starvation!
Arise, you wretched of the earth!
For justice thunders condemnation:
A better world's in birth!
No more tradition's chains shall bind us,
Arise you slaves, no more in thrall!
The earth shall rise on new foundations:
We have been nought, we shall be all!
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
Well, I just called my reps/senators again, third time this week. I've never called before, I wrote a couple of e-mails when Katrina happened, but this is the 1st time I've called.
You know what the best thing about this . . . I feel good telling them NO, NO, and HELL NO!
You vote for this, I will not vote for you in a month.
Paulson's bluff has been called and he has been exposed. The market is not melting down. There is no panic. No real crisis. Stocks are down somewhat as they should be. They should go down further. But it was good that Congress refused to let him stampede it into precipitous actions.
Subject: REQUEST FOR URGENT CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP
Dear American:
I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.
I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you. All is guaranteed with all confidence.
I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transaction is 100% safe.
This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check to help you.
We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred. Hurry, don't miss this opportunity.
Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.
Calculated Risk writes:
I don't get it. Sorry I posted the link.
Calculated Risk | Homepage | 09.26.08 - 9:48 am | #
On the verge of the greatest financial crisis (dollar-wise) in history, our president is making a speech. A speech which puzzles the best minds in finance and economics. This speech will be reprinted in the history books because of its brevity and lack of purpose. In business offices everywhere, the question arises: WTF? It provides a refreshing counterbalance to the Gettysburg Address.
If you honestly believe it's even remotely possible that Kerry and Gore could've done a worse job running the country than Shrub, good luck with McCain/Palin. You certainly deserve them.
Fun times bush!
it's too early to start drinking, but I'll hafta steel myself
cheers!
luv these web links-- no cable here...
Thanks CR !
Well, on the bright side, it can't be any worse than the last speech.
he's a jerk
Can someone please summarise Bush as he goes for me? Low bandwidth at the moment 4 me.
Thanks for the link CR and people who provided the CNN link in the thread below.
WaMU had listed in their recent financials $296b in net assets (not marked to market.....incredible when you put a real market value on thier assets...the firm is worth ZERO!!!!!!!!!! Thnk about how many other banks lokk like this!!!!!
Tangible assets assumed1 $296
Liabilities assumed1 265
Net assets2 $31
Loan marks (31)
Reversal of loan loss reserve 8
Other PAA3 (6)
Adjusted net asset value $2
Consideration (2)
Pro forma capital impact $0
Conforming loan loss reserve (1)
Pro forma capital impact after conforming loan loss reserve ($1)
One Salient Oversight, sure. It hasn't started yet.
Wachovia is cliff diving this AM (off about 26%)
Best to all
WaMu goes WABOOOOOM. 28 billion in debt now worth pennies on the dollar.
How much in the way of CDS were written on this debt?
Who knows?
Suspicions are several hundred billion. Now folks will go to the protection seller and ask for them to pay up, they will go to their counterparty who will go to their counterparty....
For Lehman FED advanced a few hundred billion stealth style to unwind the trades, I don't see that happening here... FED is running out of bullets.
This is a wildfire that the Paulson plan was supposed to be able to set up a firewall for.
It is a wildfire that if not contained will burn down a lot of homes
Keep your eye on the ball.
2 minute warning ...
Thx
A hypothetical question: suppose that part of the deal is replacement of Paulson by a highly respected nonpartisan guy. Who should that be? I would think Volker would be the obvious choice. Anybody else?
wb under $10
ruh roh
9:35 Eastern Time?
House Republicans, well done!!! . Looks like you guys recently got a spine transplant.
did the wb ms negotiations tank due to bailout talk?
How's Ted Spread feeling this morning?
Summarize?
" Ah... uh...... you see... BOOOOOOOOO... ah... national securty.... ah.... BOOOOO.....uh...... be scared....um.....Millions of jobs lost.... plummeting house prices....uh "
Oh no here he is!
Bush working with Congress on rescue plan.
"It's hard work"
My fellow Americans, please leave your deposits in the bank. There is no cause for alarm!
its incredible, this guy is our president.
Here we go.
Hard work, big problem, move quickly.
"and we need a rescue plan"
Way to feed the crisis in confidence.
Is this for FCB's?
wtf was that??
"something spec... substantial needs to be done"
Any live links for the speech that don't require some fancy plug in?
lol...
That's it!
That's it?????
There is no disagreement that something must be done. We are going to get a package passed. Republicans and Democrats will come together and pass a substantial rescue plan.
That is it ...
ted 3.08
TRANSPARENCY and ACCOUNTABILITY.
Nobody, absolutely nobody, is above the law in this great country.
By the way, I have an IPO that I hope is worth some US$100,000,000.
I want each member of Congress, plus Mr. Bernanke, plus Mr. Bush, to trust my good faith, and provide me with the require capital for it. No need for stocks or proportional ownership of any type. Simply trust me that all will be just fine and we all will profit from it. Just trust me. Pure trust. You know me well.
Wow! I'm blown away........I think?
members of congress may speak, even though the process "is not pretty".
but we'lll rise to the occasion and craft a big solution to a big problem??
that's it.
finito.
bubye.
amazing.
Well that sure inspired confidence. Too bad I can't short ...
i think he realized the more he talks, the more the dow tanks.
...
I'm without words. Was that it?
We will rise to the occasion....
or fall to the occasion
Was that a confidence building speech by Bushie? I guess I missed that part.
ot kidding, One Salient, that's it.
My guess is that they were afraid and it was set up for a bank holiday if necessary. Turned out not to be necessary and so he just said something noncommital and looked stupid.
what was the purpose really, maybe we do need some kind of plan, but
real main street america is thinking y2k duct tape mushroom clouds
there is no confidence
Ummmmm,
call me a tin foil hat wearer but did that seemed to be aimed at our creditors . . . i.e. China.
Market finally got around to price discovery on WAMU, assets are worth zero.
Thank goodness WAMU was the only one........
BWAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
What do you think JP Morgan with 1.4T in mortgages and the largest (multi-trillion) derivative exposure on the planet has in terms of net assets if the assets were marked honestly?
Try not to think about it.
I don't get it. Sorry I posted the link.
Putting together a "bailout" ooops "rescue" of this size is HARD. A rescue will be done and it wont be pretty but its hard...
he always looks stupid
A succinct summary of his leadership, MIA.
I am IN AWE. Totally inspiring.
Winston Churchill couldn't have done better.
[Holy moses. That's the best he could offer? Now I'm actually scared]
My God. He is really, really bad. How did we let this happen?!!
i would have been shocked,,if he would have said that "right now i'm part of the problem",,sic
That was the warmup speech, right?
He knew if he said to much he would throw the market in chaos.
Very statesmanesque. Maybe he could be President someday.
He read it just like my nine-year old wrote it.
Worst Pres. EVER, no need to wait for history
Bush Blinked.
SS writes:
My guess is that they were afraid and it was set up for a bank holiday if necessary. Turned out not to be necessary and so he just said something noncommital and looked stupid.
That sounds like a probable explanation.
My booze has not kicked in!!!!!!!
That...
was...
I'm speechless...
15 minute delay for this speech?
Too early in the AM for is morning swig .
That was the warmup speech, right?
No really. He's not that dumb -- nor are his advisors. They must have had something else planned for a major gap opening and pulled it.
From your comments I assume he didn't inspire any confidence.
I'm waiting to see how the markets react. So far they're not doing anything that reflects confidence.
Can someone please summarise Bush as he goes for me? --One Salient Oversight
He didn't say anything. He just said Congress will pass some type of a bailout.
Im a republican, and voted for bush. Going into iraq was the right thing at the time, they just bungled it. At least he had the balls to do what needed to be done then.
But the man is truly an idiot.
I guess SS is most rightest, to appropriate a Bushism.
SS; RIGHT!
WHAT A JOKE.
There is no disagreement that something must be done. We are going to get a package passed. Republicans and Democrats will come together and pass a substantial rescue plan.
Maybe the whole problem is that congress keeps spending money the US doesn't have thereby destroying the "credit rating" of the nation as a whole.
U.S. credit rating at 425 and falling.
They truly are desperate. They will try anything...including this ridiculous stunt.
I'm speechless...
So's the Prez.
Well that was the worst speech I have ever heard..
He said "Legislation is hard work. We'll get this done. Bye." OK, maybe there were two more sentences. Not more than three.
Or if you prefer:
"We don't know what to do, but we're going to do something anyhow."
Democrats are ready to go ahead with the plan without the GOP
Dollar tanking
President Bush: Get on the phones, call your Senator , tell them to support the bill while Congress is still in session. This offer WILL NOT LAST, operators are standing-by.....CALL NOW
Link to Dollar tanking right now
oooohhhh.... she is going to educate us now.
Educate me, Erin... I need some education from a Goldman Sachs associate turned into a media shill.
Wachovia is cliff diving this AM (off about 26%)
Best to all
Calculated Risk
Not possible! Cant short sell this puppy! Check your screens.
Well when they went up to the hill yesterday,,almost to a man,,they said throwing the GOP into it was not a good thing,,,,,,they knew,,,,,,ya know!
err... that was
pointless
CR:
Glad you did post the link. We need to see our leaders as they cope. This is invaluable as a teaching exercise.
To others: what else is Bush going to say right now? The fight has finally emerged into the light, its going to be tumultuous, and he can't control it.
And that is a good thing, from my perspective.
ker-ist. I don't get it.
Some egghead is trying to explain why banks seizing up causes a shoe store to go bankrupt.
Doesn't any business in america today that makes money have, you know, SAVINGS that they can use to finance themselves?
Why does every business need a huge revolving line of credit to survive?
I run a business, it funds itself out of profits.. I don't need a fucking bank to charge me 15% on a running balance to survive..
sorry I don't get it.
I can not believe this guy on cnbc scaring elderly people- unbelievable
we should modernize "socialize" he says
Chinese must have called him overnight. Forget the banks: bond markets gonna join the fun! If the last "safe" haven, Treasuries, start spiking due to Chinese and Russian dumping, it's game, set, match, d d d d d depression.
Doesn't any business in america today that makes money have, you know, SAVINGS that they can use to finance themselves?
Not yet. But the survivors will.
Markets don't seem to be reacting with any confidence at all after the "speech".
If all Bush did was rehash what everybody knew, was he just being a news reader?
Down with the bailout.
Lol,,so many jumped into treasuries that the price went to zero,,,well i think its gonna happen again...lol
CR-- I agree w/ outer beltway. That was a valuable communication; it was a meta message if I ever heard one.
Just don't know what it means yet.
I run a business, it funds itself out of profits.. I don't need a fucking bank to charge me 15% on a running balance to survive..
Interestingly, many businesses run on the difference between the interest they pay and the "profit" they make. The principal or loan in this case is used for working capital or capital expenses to set up the business and keep it running. These businesses either pay the loan down over time or roll it over. It's really quite common.
One thing missing (out of many) from Bush's appearance was no mention of the American people. It was all about Washington deal making.
Oh and also the blatant appeal for the media to call it a "Rescue Plan" instead of a Bail Out, which is what it is.
people are working hard, trying to put food on their family.
Bush could get a job on that FedEx commercial:
Working hard! In the zone! Can't talk now!
LOL
"You see, there's this country called Wall Street, and they've developed these Weapons of Mass Destruction. They're called CDSs, MBSs, CDOs, and derivative. You see, if we don't attack them soon, our cities will go up in smoke as this Wall Street country attacks our cities with these WMDs.
I propose we bomb Wall Street with Cash Bombs. I think 700 Cash bombs, filled with $1 billion each, should do the trick. Like a regular carpet bombing, only with cash.
Then we will have defeated the evil terrorists on Wall Street. I think this war will only cost the US Taxpayer about $20 billion total, and should last only 6 months.
Afterward, we can drill for oil in Wall Street to pay us back for the $20 billion cost of this war.
Thank you and may God Bless you."
"Rescue Plan" instead of a Bail Out, which is what it is.
or "cover up"
Word last night was the House Republicans want a plan that exchanges buyouts of toxic assets for loan guarantees.
Thoughts? Strikes me as six of one, a half-dozen of the other...
Bush: we will persecute those who violate the law....
waterboarding on the Mickey D's dollar menu.
We're going to do something even if it's wrong...
He should have just text'd the speech to reporters:
"l0l c0ngr355 pa55 plan plz kthxbai"
From Christmas Vacation, this perfectly encapsulates GWB, too:
[after Clark fails at lighting all the exterior Christmas lights at the "lighting ceremony" in front of the entire family]
Frances: Talk about pissing your money away. I hope you kids see what a silly waste of resources this was.
Audrey: He worked really hard, Grandma.
Art: So do washing machines.
The Paulson plan is an equity/bondholder bailout.
government could recapitalize and then spin out OR
The bondholder stake should be converted to equity in a cramdown receivership.
This requires zero tax money and will work, as the firm emerges with zero debt.
"Doesn't any business in america today that makes money have, you know, SAVINGS that they can use to finance themselves?"
Anonymous | 09.26.08 - 9:53 am | #
Our CFO talked to us a couple of weeks ago. Were are looking to purchase more assets in the trucking industry. His exact words "We have cash for aquisitions, but the prices need to come to us"
There will be winners and losers...
Chris
All we need is Colin Powell at the UN showing satellite pictures of Wall Street.
Good ole politicians,,a needed bill being rushed through,,,well lets add on all sort of crap,,or we will not sign it,,,thats how they do business..
he's a jerk
He was ALWAYS a jerk. I recall the comment of Yale classmate when he became President to the effect that it was utterly unbelievable that such a doofus would ever become President. He was more or less a joke at Yale and never rose above sideline cheerleader. Once a doofus always a doofus whatever desk you are put behind.
It must be a cover-up, right?
Does anyone believe that whatever is in the books of Morgan Stanley and Goldman is entirely, technically legal?
Replace "loan guarantees" with "insurance on troubled assets"; I'm mixing terms this morning.
There is no panic in the market. It is down as is logical. There is time to sort this all out and do it right, if you need to do anything. The Paulson hustle has been called, I think.
just heard Armageddon again on cnbc. Maybe for those who work on wall street. Anyone who thinks they are doing this for the little guy is insane
Breaking News:
Bush announces a new plan to rescue the bailout plan.
-GSD
you can never fault the man for being a captive to inspiring rhetoric...lmao
Does anyone believe that whatever is in the books of Morgan Stanley and Goldman is entirely, technically legal?
karelian
It is legal through the approval of the president using the Patriot Act powers.
Interestingly, many businesses run on the difference between the interest they pay and the "profit" they make.
I understand that: someone buys a business with a bank loan and their own money, then profit is the return after paying interest on the loan.
But that loan can't be recalled, right, if it is in good standing? I just don't see why so many main street businesses are so vulnerable EACH DAY to what their bank wants to lend them anew.
Elvis-
You forgot signing statements too.
Anon 9:53 - "Why does every business need a huge revolving line of credit to survive?"
I'm not an MBA, CPA or economist - but do work with accounting/financials I can tell you non-profits use lines of credit, all the time, to float.
The ones I've worked for have great reserves / endowments, but the credit lines are easier to use since most reserves are controlled by the BOD.
Dollar not tanking any more, but the fall after Bush's speech was palpable.
TARP - isn't that what you put over a dead body? Why don't we just bury it instead?
The speech we all really need to hear:
==============================
To the hard working folks of America: I have failed as your president, and while Dick can bully, he can't really lead, so we are announcing the following changes to stabilize the Market.
This is a tough crisis, and this sucker can go down any time. But America is strong and resilient, and we can get through this once people can depend on their leaders on telling the truth, and the justice system for prosecuting the criminals.
God Bless.
Confidence in Bush has cut the DJ loss in half.
Bushie will repeat the speech at 2PM.
Haines gets it:
Most repubs don't get nuance anyway, so they can't be confused by CEE caps, Equity stakes etc..
They just know, rightly, that $700 billion to anyone SUCKS.
They do understand it may put their "shoe store" in jeopardy but they are willing to take that risk.
One of his best speeches. I wonder why he didn't just call it a weekend and go cut brush back in Texas. If I were him I would - tell Hank to call him & leave a message if something changes.
If that's true (maybe so), market should be down 20%, not 2%.
Shows how hard the PPT is pumping to hold it all up.
Global stock markets are floating on waves of govt. liquidity.
Think how scary that is.
That was a waste of bandwidth.
They are never going to gain the ascent of the people until they are honest with themselves and call it a bailout. By calling it a rescue they've alienated enough of the electorate such that threatens any action with tangible response. I'm thinking "Alice's Restaurant." Everybody with a W-2 increases their witholding. Since money seems to be the only thing that they listen to let's see what an immediate and large plunge in receipts does.
Haines gets it:
Most repubs don't get nuance anyway, so they can't be confused by CEE caps, Equity stakes etc..
They just know, rightly, that $700 billion to anyone SUCKS.
Haines got it from the start -
All smoke. The PPT managed to borrow 200 B from the Chinese last night to cover the drop this morning. They need to maintain the illusion of stability for all of Friday. Problem is it amy not work.........
70.3 ? Why is consumer sentiment so high?
Massaging of numbers again.
Are you guys joking about the "PPT" because if you are right, the PPT should be pushing the market heavily down in order to prove their thesis that 700b is needed RIGHT NOW.
New thread
if they are still dragging their feet,,the market close ,,,should be interesting..
....WTF. Republicans are opposing the plan because they want less taxes? WTF!!!!!
Not exactly the St Crispin's Day speech, was it?
I picked a helluva week to stop sniffing glue.
The Notorious A.I.G. writes:
Fantastic screen name!
The flaw in the plan IMO is ignoring the certainty of a deep recession by applying a $700b hit to taxpayers. Thus the argument reduces to "Give us $700b and we promise you a recession. You only alternative is keeping your $700b and there will be a recession."
"Think how scary that is."
Option A: If you DON'T pass this bill, you'll lose:
Option B: If you DO pass this bill you will get these bonuses too:
I'll take A as long as it takes those bastards with me. I know how to live on the street. They don't.
Rob [sucker going down] Dawg writes:
They are never going to gain the ascent of the people until they are honest with themselves and call it a bailout
Yup - that and show REAL job loss not hypothetical job loss.
We'll get a bailout - sometime next March no matter who is President - but by then we really should have our head around the consequences after the commercial paper doesn't roll over.
Anecdote: a company I work with put in an order for a multi-million dollar custom machine... sizable down payment, rest due upon completion & installation. Lead-time was about a year so it was ordered last year.
Machine was finished last month - company can't buy it because they can't roll over debt - on the verge of default (banks are in process of writing down something like $5MM on roll over to get done)... Machine builder stuck with a custom machine they can should be able to sell but take time & discount. They have CP issues of their own.
The great roll over continues...
I'M ASKING A FAVOR. DO NOT MIX POLITICS AND MARKET/ECONOMICS IN THE SAME COMMENT.
I'm skipping all comments on Bush, etc. to save time.
You are kidding, right? You ARE reading a thread about Bush talking about an economic bailout...
ew thread
If I was in a more forgiving mood, I'd actually feel sorry for W. He's clearly a broken man. It's pretty clear that the backoffice lads are having him trot out a teleprompted speech (does he actually get to see them first?) periodically since you really need the President to make the public speeches.
But there appears to be a disconnect between his state of mind and what's on the prompter - hence such terms as "House of Cards" slipping in during one of his comments he made earlier.
Couple this with the hard break with most Rep officials against the administration and there is a real power vacuum problem at the moment.
Dangerous.
Whose idea was it to trot out the president w/ the lowest approval rating in more than half a century in support of The Plan?
The great roll over continues...
dryfly | 09.26.08 - 10:14 am | #
Seriously??
I know some people in PE that might be able to help. If interested let me know and I'll get you an email...
Chris
Call your senators and tell them to wait on this ridiculous bailout for Wall St. (all institutions)......
Ca. Senators:
Barbara Boxer: 202-224-3553
Diane Feinstein: 202-224-3841
Don't let congress/Bush/Cheney/Paulson throw the US taxpayer ubnder the bus!!!!
Now CNBC says Cheney is atying behind in Washington to push this thru.
If satan is staying behind it is definitely a NO vote.
The Poster Without A Name wrote:
Why does every business need a huge revolving line of credit to survive?
If this were rephrased as "Why does ANY AMERICAN need a huge revolving line of credit to survive?" it would be the question of the century.
I run a business, it funds itself out of profits..
I run a small biz, and that's my model as well. Will continue to work as long a my clients aren't broke.
Wachovia this weekend or next?
All hail the Talking Chimp. In these forums, we can't see who else's lips are moving, but we can figure it out.
Can you believe people still drive around with old Bush/Cheney bumper stickers on their cars? Don't they have any sense of shame or responsibility?
Cobradriver writes:
The great roll over continues...
dryfly | 09.26.08 - 10:14 am | #
Seriously??
I know some people in PE that might be able to help. If interested let me know and I'll get you an email...
Chris
Cobradriver | 09.26.08 - 10:21 am | #
PE guys are involved already - they are up to their eyeballs in it - they are the ones wanting to roll over - the principals levered to make the return attractive and now are levered as high as they dare go... any more and they throw in the keys.
~200 folks lose jobs when that happens. I think they will avert it but only if they can roll over the existing paper (they will NOT buy that machine in this environment regardless).
Oh - and they tried to lease machines - no one will do it until the credit markets unclog - SOMEBODY has to fund them & w/out credit its a no go.
Are they going to shoot one bank per day till the bailout gets passed?
Dry,
I've a feeling manufacturing capacity hardware in the US will be a lot more attractive in the very near future between targeted stimuli and dollar weakness. Even if that means boxing it up and sending it to Chindia. [p.s. I live about 5 miles from Haas Automation.]
If Paulson Plan doesn't happen... not sure if in diluted form it will do any good... the next firewall is the NY FED. If they don't seize and force the shadow fisherman to 'net out'.... well I can say with confidence that
we're all LONDON now.
Many of you who criticize the POTUS speech are correct. The reason it was late is that "THEY" would not allow his original message-presented below:
Arise, you prisoners of starvation!
Arise, you wretched of the earth!
For justice thunders condemnation:
A better world's in birth!
No more tradition's chains shall bind us,
Arise you slaves, no more in thrall!
The earth shall rise on new foundations:
We have been nought, we shall be all!
'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
Once a doofus always a doofus whatever desk you are put behind.
jim | 09.26.08 - 9:59 am | #
What does that say about the Americans who voted for him--twice?
Well, I just called my reps/senators again, third time this week. I've never called before, I wrote a couple of e-mails when Katrina happened, but this is the 1st time I've called.
You know what the best thing about this . . . I feel good telling them NO, NO, and HELL NO!
You vote for this, I will not vote for you in a month.
why is bush opening his mouth? guttural animal snarfing is not needed at this point in the debate.
Paulson's bluff has been called and he has been exposed. The market is not melting down. There is no panic. No real crisis. Stocks are down somewhat as they should be. They should go down further. But it was good that Congress refused to let him stampede it into precipitous actions.
"We are going to get a package passed."
George Bush
Who is "we"?
Do "WE" the people get to vote on this package?
Never lose sight of who he ran against.
Kerry is an empty suit who thought it would be nice if he were elected President.
Gore is a borderline lunatic.
Those are the choices we were given.
From: Minister of the Treasury Paulson
Subject: REQUEST FOR URGENT CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP
Dear American:
I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.
I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you. All is guaranteed with all confidence.
I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transaction is 100% safe.
This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check to help you.
We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred. Hurry, don't miss this opportunity.
Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.
Yours Faithfully
Minister of Treasury Paulso
Funniest thread ever. Just because that one line:
Calculated Risk writes:
I don't get it. Sorry I posted the link.
Calculated Risk | Homepage | 09.26.08 - 9:48 am | #
On the verge of the greatest financial crisis (dollar-wise) in history, our president is making a speech. A speech which puzzles the best minds in finance and economics. This speech will be reprinted in the history books because of its brevity and lack of purpose. In business offices everywhere, the question arises: WTF? It provides a refreshing counterbalance to the Gettysburg Address.
Whosonfirst,
If you honestly believe it's even remotely possible that Kerry and Gore could've done a worse job running the country than Shrub, good luck with McCain/Palin. You certainly deserve them.
....the party aint over till someone dances with the ugly girl.
Yes, it's hard work selling out the American people.
But somebody has to do it.
Do the math - the bailout just does not add up:
11,666,666 Home Owners Could be Rescued from Foreclosure « Your Mortgage or Your Life…
Comrade Bush's other famous speach related to the Iraq war seems appropriate:
"There,s a saying in Texas.....
Fool me once... shame on you.
Fool me twice.. we'll ummm we're not going to get fooled twice."
That's as close as I remember him saying it. He's still an idiot.