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BEN and HANK - Ben Bernanke and Henry Paulson Horned Masks - BENandHANK.com
The thirteen or so vote difference goes back to their constituents and says, "I voted against, the market crashed, this is necessary medicine." Re-vote Wednesday or so.
Working things out on a case by case basis or an executive directive releasing funds to the Secretary of the Treasury by a lame-duck president whose party is probably not going to see much success this election, anyway. I.e., nothing left to lose.
I'm guessing Dems rip this shizzle up, pen a new-and-improved, and send it to Bush and dare him to veto it. More hardball politics, natch.
Gasbag should disclose he is Republican!
So a physics question, what happens when "too big to fail" runs into "too broke to save?"
Probably no vote tomorrow - and reduced negotiations tonight on account of Rosh Hoshanah. Thanks, religious folk.
Let's watch the markets across the world spiral out of control for the next 36 hours before the House gets together again in earnest.
"The thirteen or so vote difference goes back to their constituents and says, "I voted against, the market crashed, this is necessary medicine." Re-vote Wednesday or so."
Hmmm. Perhaps the Plunge Protection Team took the day off. On purpose.
"The guys in the executive suites on Wall St. are totally freaking out right now that this has happened."
Oh, so denial of the government trough has pissed off the pigs, eh? I'm shocked, SHOCKED!
Guys in Wall Street executive suites are freaking out according to CNBC. Delicious !!!!
My rep voted NAY!!
I thanked him.
Hope everyone does the same.
Uh-HUH.
I believe its done forever - it'll never pass. Did you guys see Michael More's plea today?
My Congressman voted No also!
Guarantee we haven't heard the end of this bill.
It will be hacked back up and re-voted on.
I hope they bring forward a plan that is not a big handout to the irresponsible.
Stay on the offensive. There will be incredible pressure over the next few days.
Take $700 out of the bank to send a message.
Let the bank know why.
Even tell them you'll be back for the rest if this bill passes.
Sends a lot stronger message than a fax.
If there was a problem, market would have closed by now.
Just another day on the wallstreet.
No to Bailout and yes to free markets.
Am I the only one expecting an emergency 100 bp rate cut tomorrow before the market opens (but after Asia gets reamed)?
The rate already is about 75 bps below the target anyway.
Good - that was one bad bill even considering all the potential 'risk'...
I hope congress goes home and looks at it all again in say mid-January.
Hey for real Cliff diving look at the Bovespa:
Bovespa 45,866.11 3:48PM ET 4,916.79 (9.68%)
On top of an already dismal year for Brazil!!!
Someday this war's gonna end...
Follow up calls a great idea:
Congress.org - Get informed, get involved
keep the resolve firm..
the market is holding pretty well it's not that big
KRISHNAN writes:
Guys in Wall Street executive suites are freaking out according to CNBC. Delicious !!!!
...
I hope they come back on Wed with a better approach. Attack the equity side rather than the asset side. let the Treasury do what Buffet did, but lots of preferred stock in each oif these intitutions. dilutes the heck out of the existing shareholders and strengthens balance sheets so they can continue to lend. Also really gives the taxpayer a chance to make some $ on the deal.
from last thread:
Can someone please tell the folks on Wall Street to "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"
The reaction to this vote should be a big bankers meeting in NYC, with regional and overseas banks invited, for the sole purpose of figuring out how to get themselves out of this mess. The one and only rule is that(more) government help is cannot be the answer.
Citizen Allen M - Wait until Asia opens in a few hours...
Call your reps, folks, Yell at the Yeas and praise the Nay. They're under a lot of pressure and it was pretty close. I'm switching my vote and voting against my party because of my Rep's vote. He deserves some support.
Shock & Awe Bailout hit by voters roadside IED.
Dear Comrades,
Please alter the vote to include a bail-out for the Committee for the Preservation of the Great People's No Money System. We have run completely out of Aculpulco GOld and can get no more with our No Money Reserves.
TIA for your contribution to the Great People's Smoking Fund.
Do svidaniya!
Restore confidence in the banks with higher deposit protection. Slow the run on the banks.
Re-voting tomorrow would seem like a no go. This whole thing was about confidence. Even if they could gather a majority tomorrow, how would the rest of the world know nothing would change going forward, especially since its latest form involved installments.
I believe Tues. and Wed are Jewish holidays so no vote on those days. When Thurs and Fri comes around market will rally and this vote will be a distant memory!
We will live on! With or without Wall Street!
Better that than a blank check for thieves ( with an insider doling out the cash) .
In the short run, the government is back to acting on a case by case basis.
ow, we take our medicine. today was the first step towards recovery and truth in the market in a long time.
WAMU is having a customer appreciation party for the next few days. Free cake!
VIX shot up, SPX major selloff, anyone gonna do a short term trade here??? short VIX and long SPX? anyone, anyone?
This one's for you, Tanta.
Congress takes hard look at mark-to-market audit rules - MarketWatch
"Investor Barry Ritholtz, CEO at Fusion IQ, said mark-to-market rules should be left alone.
"It seems to be pulled straight from the Bank of Japan's playbook: Take the right downs later rather than sooner, once the market returns to normalcy. That's a deeply flawed philosophy,"
Anyone think this is a good buying opportunity?
Barny Frank is off for his two day holiday but "other people" remain to work on what to do next.
Maria is incoherent ..
cnbc is all over the place. One minute, the market is appalling, the next it isn't appalling enough to scare the house lawmakers.
They keep going on about gold being up 5% like that move is anything. It was over $1000 at the start of the year.
tomorrow's Rosh Hashanah.
Dear China:
Please appoint a Trustee In Bankruptcy for the United States of America.
Thank you.
Cordially,
Comrade Kilgore Trout
P.S.: My apologies for having missed the Olymics in Beijing. Next time.
cnbc says, well of course we're going to get a bailout package, no question, the people want it.
Am I missing something?
All Bets off...Maria just assured everyone that we WILL get the rescue package!!
What is the floor on the Dow right now? Some level of drop (10,000, 9,500, 9,000?) will frighten enough folks to get this package passed. I don't think 10,400 is enough, but 9,500 might do it.
what will the next creature from congress look like?
the last bill was so hideous and insane.
my favorite comment when we were discussing it last night, was bond girl's "you can't make a bank solvent by changing the definition of solvency" (paraphrased from memory).
Time for Congress to go. No point in trying again. Pledge to have a more serious response to the crisis after the election.
Obama is being blamed because he put politics before the bail-out!
Too much!
I heard the world ZIRP today on CNBC. Any chance we cut to zero now?
Large depositors are afraid to leave their money in the banks.
Fix the problem by guaranteeing deposits in banks - not by bailing out the foolish investors who bought shitty securities, or who borrowed too much.
sweeet... more fake political posturing. great.
It's time for the Roubini Plan and let the Dems pass it on their own. Then let's see what Bush does.
Now cnbc is talking to the protesters, who naturally are stupid and don't understand the gravity of the situation. Wankers.
If you want to short term trade this market, at least trade in its primary direction - which is clearly down. Wait for a dead cat bounce some day this week - like up 3% or 4% with the bailout bill passing. Then short the f*ck out of the market.
With Q3 earnings(or should I say writedowns)right around the corner, the Paulson buddy group will be desperate enough in a couple of days and come begging to make a deal much sweeter to the american tax payer!
Finally we have witnessed some spine amongst our congresspersons. No doubt, it's a good day for democracy.
This is the price for letting Lehman go under. Now, the big boys, MS and GS will have their due upcoming. Sitting this one out will turn out to be less than wise decision, Lloyd and Jack. You will both pay now, Warren or not.
honestly cnbc is all
doom and gloom
This bill is going to end up like Mom's three day old meatloaf leftovers. Mamma is going to mix in some Hamburger Helper, reheat, and put it on the table again. Dinner will be served and dinner will most certainly be eaten, it's just a matter of when.
MaurS writes:
All Bets off...Maria just assured everyone that we WILL get the rescue package!!
MaurS | 09.29.08 - 3:56 pm | #
She looks really mad - like somebody in front of her got the last 75% off Coach bag at a Macy's Sale... damn them!
Goin' South writes:
Stay on the offensive. There will be incredible pressure over the next few days.
Take $700 out of the bank to send a message.
Let the bank know why.
Even tell them you'll be back for the rest if this bill passes.
Sends a lot stronger message than a fax.
Ummn, no don't do that. It would be better to show that the world did not end with the failure of this bill.
As I said in the last thread, I feel much less inclined to withdraw cash now than I did before the bill was shot out of the sky. If it looks like it's coming back, THAT is when I will go get my cash.
Money market trouble was the trigger, and it's back. The direct response was a $50 bln insurance fund, not in place yet. How about $200 bln in insurance, with a 15-minute turn-over for enrollment? Give the FDIC a green light - already backed by Treasury, so no legislation needed. Put everything in place that can be done without legislation and that directly addresses the issues that confront us, instead of issue that are behind other issues. Financial firms will need to worry about staying in business, but they won't have to worry about liquidity. Moral hazard is a lesser concern.
The big unfixable thing is that the government teased a hungry market and then jerked the bacon away. Can't fix that now, but ther are other approaches to the problems we have.
Finally, a thread small enough that I can read it all!
Though, like many in government, I have nothing useful to say but will say something anyway.
it's not gloom for main street
As many have said already...It is VERY important to call your reps and let them know that you will definately vote for them (for Nay votes) or tell them you will vote against them even if it didn't pass just because they tried to pass it.
Don't let up now!!!!!! They will try a revote soon.
The next package will add something like $1000 stimulus checks. They can pull the 8 - 10 votes they need by tweaking the number on the stimulus check. Worst case, $2000.
Just a matter of time.
"WAMU is having a customer appreciation party for the next few days. Free cake!"
Don't eat that cake! They won't tell you what's in it! They'll just ask you to "trust them!"
This might be a good time for the Chinese to get rid of their US Treasuries before the rest of the world realizes that the US government is going to get itself broke by propping up US banks with ridiculous amounts of liquidity.
I don't see this thing moving. I may be embarassingly wrong, but I think that it is dead.
Why? No one has any confidence that Bush, Paulson, Bernanke, Pelosi and Reid and Co. can do anything to stop the downturn. The public believes that they are inept, and yet, they want $700B to send good money chasing after bad. The public, through its overwhelming response, voted no confidence in the government. Most would rather take their chances with the markets, no matter how ruthless they may turn out to be.
Also, don't forget that if you already believe that things are going to get really bad, you would rather keep the money in the government for use to help you if we go into the depression like conditions, instead of letting Wall Street walk away with it now.
In other words, many see the lifting of the debt ceiling as a one time thing, and they want that one time to help them survive, not reliquify leveraged banks and financial institutions that caused the crisis. The public has not only lost confidence in the political process, but the financial system itself, and for good reason.
The sooner the politicians and the investment world understand this, the better, and policies can be designed to help us move forward. The longer they resist, a la Bill Gross, the more painful it will be.
down 5-6% is not that big of a deal
the sky has not fallen
the losers will be shaken out
this is how markets work
please keep the pressure on!
no bailout
I agree. This parrot's dead.
A lot of buying at the end. See, the world isn't over.
I'll go back to my milkshake now.
The pro-bailout cheerleading on CNBC is breathtaking.
Maria and Dylan are making me sick to my stomach
Then turn the teevee off.
rcc, i like your thinking.
we should start a campaing for a $700 billion bailout for the consumer. i want mine in glod though.
what about the end of quarter hedge fund redemptions....
This is what it feels like to be robbed! So long Democracy, hello textbook Fascism.
Paulson has to go to prison!
Links to Final Bill and a nive 6 page official House summary:
The Final Bill Language – But Not the Final Bill for Taxpayers « Your Mortgage or Your Life…
Maybe they'll go back to the drawing board and come up with something better for the general public, and not just a bailout of those who have benefited the most.
It's possible to help the system and stretched homeowners and also be fair.
Why isn't Paulson recusing himself from making these proposals, seeing as he has such close ties to major players and businesses? Solutions should be coming from more independent sources. Anyone involved in shaping these proposals should be forbidden from working in the financial industry for the next 10 years--or some other restriction.
We shouldn't have foxes developing the henhouse rescue program.
DROP DEAD, WALLSTREET. I may have to start voting republican.
Best thing to happen to a pissed off pig is a BAR-B-Q! Pork...The other white meat..
you realize that their cheerleading firms our position against them
keep the pressure on
no bailout!
Pelosi left standing at the altar with her best men Frank & Emanuel.
All complete whining weasel losers.
ANY Credibility left LOL!
This is probably another market manipulation thing...we may see the bill pass tomorrow and we'll see another huge jump.
However, the general trend of the market is going to be down because earnings are going to fall.
down 5-6% is not that big of a deal
the sky has not fallen
the losers will be shaken out
worth repeating.. the 87 crash was down 20% or something much more horrifying.
cnbc of course makes the most of the point move but the percentage move is just like two random bad days from the last month put back to back.
Guys in Wall Street executive suites are freaking out according to CNBC. Delicious !!!!
This should have happened in 1998.
Let them honestly look into the abyss to see what awaits.
Would have avoided 90% of the problems we have now.
There was just some reporter on Fox who said "look at the market, it is doing great". I was startled and looked at the t.v. and she looks like she has either had about 5 shots of tequila or a few valium.
We need another down day tomorrow to about 1070-1080 on the SPX and to about 7000 on the NYA.
The VIX is confirming panic, although the VXO could use a bit more nudging.
Overall, a good day but we are probably not there yet.
10,587 - Dow When MORON Took Office(1/20/01)
NoGuru writes:
Maybe they'll go back to the drawing board and come up with something better for the general public, and not just a bailout of those who have benefited the most.
...
The new bill will be way worse, thanks to the republicans, and the week-kneed democrats will cave to it, as always.
Last 5 minutes of CNBC seems reminds me of a telethon. Dylan and Maria talking up the bailout, phones ringing in the bacground. Won't you please help???
Comrade Martin writes:
.. before the rest of the world realizes that the US government is going to get itself broke by propping up US banks with ridiculous amounts of liquidity.
You don't say!
Fed Pumps Further $630 Billion Into Financial System
Fed Pumps Further $630 Billion Into Financial System (Update3) - Bloomberg.com
IMO, next to Ron Paul, my Congressman (Jeff Flake) is the best there is. I knew he would vote it down, but I called him and told him he has my vote in November on the basis of this one vote. All of you need to let your Reps know you will vote for them based on their No vote. Conversely, you will vote for his/her opponent based on their Yes vote. Praise is good, but votes are what counts.
After hours cancelled?
"Let them honestly look into the abyss to see what awaits.."
None of 'em have jumped yet. It can't be that bad.
Ya think the people on this board want to keep up the pressure because they are all short???
It really sounds like some of the people here want banks to fail, buinesses to go bankrupt, and people to be unemployed.
I'm not saying if the bailout would have prevented it or now... but I am questioning what everyone is hoping for.
sigh
A poll reported in the WaPo says that while only a small minority of the public favored the bailout plan that Bush proposed, 56 percent wanted Congress to do something "different." How many favored no action?
Eleven percent. Looks like the 11-percenters may win--although it's way too soon to tell. Another triumph of democracy.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/the_failure_of_the_financial.html?nav=rss_blog
Dear Congress:
I demand a Euro 20,000,000, stimulus check with 3 days or I will immediately short the S&P 500 December 2008 contract starting on Thursday, Oct. 2, 2008.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
K Trout
Comrade Bagholders,
I'm still in shock and awe. I thought this was in the bag.
Nostrovia,
Down 603 at the close.
It really sounds like some of the people here want banks to fail, buinesses to go bankrupt, and people to be unemployed.
You forgot some words:
badly managed
over leveraged
greedy
I'll let you put them in the sentence in the right places.
"It's time for the Roubini Plan and let the Dems pass it on their own. Then let's see what Bush does."
We know what he'll do. Go biking and have Paulson make sure the Roubinin Plan doesn't work.
How many more "cases"?
After Wamu, Wachovia, Mer, Lehman, Fannie, Freddie, Indymac, BS... How many more do we need? Who is left to fail?
They need to go to the Swedish model and simply nationalize all the failing institutions. Wipe out the shareholders, protect the depositors.
Dow's off 600 pts. The Street knows it's still going to get the bailout eventually.
If you think today was bad...Wait til' markets close on Oct 2nd. The fact that a bailout could occur does NOT make the borrowers more creditworthy. That is why banks will not lend..PERIOD
Raph writes:
How many more "cases"?
After Wamu, Wachovia, Mer, Lehman, Fannie, Freddie, Indymac, BS... How many more do we need? Who is left to fail?
Goldman Sachs? Wells Fargo? B of A?
goldman pumped back to almost the price level it was at pre-vote.
Frank may get his chicken little theory confirmed.
NASD with a 1K handle. WOW!
Keep in mind, Europe is far more leveraged than the US. Google Roubini and Deutsche Bank and see what I mean. Plus they have stagnant population and a far more convoluted system with the euro controlled by the ECB but the countries still have their own central banks. I predict that Spain will be the first sovereign default. Google "Spain Economy Watch" and you can get details on that.
pq writes:
Dow's off 600 pts. The Street knows it's still going to get the bailout eventually.
We have a winner...
Let's get it straight folks! America will not fail if America doesn't want it to fail. That is by respecting our constitution and our laws we will not fail!
If you are an FB or Wall Streeter who lives off of pimping mortgages, you probably will fail! Get a life and a real job!
My guess is they will throw in some solar and wind tax credits, plus a couple anthrax letters, and then it will pass withing 48 hours.
My reps, Shelby in the Senate and Spencer Bachus in the House, led the charge against this fiasco.
Go Guys! You do Alabama proud.
All the people who saved a ton of cash like me have been waiting for this day. Sure my 401k took a hit, but me and my wife are only 32.
It amazed me in 2005 when people thought the real estate bubble was sustainable. Now it is equally amazing that people think real estate values will go to zero and we are facing armageddon. Less people will be buying, more people will be renting. I plan to become a landlord soon, but prices still need to drop.
I think a couple more down days and I will be ready to buy big companies and take over targets. Thanks congress!
CNBC is propaganda. What a joke. Maria should hold pom poms for cryin out loud.
CNBC is a sham.
Of course what we need is the Scandinavian Plan ... Bank Holiday, Audits, Liquidation of Insolvencies, Re-capitalization of Good Banks.
This would reward CEOs of failed institutions .... the door ...
For a real take on a great bailout and plan to go forward on the economy here's your article :
Financial Bailout: Thanks but No Thanks - What Lincoln would have said by Ellen Brown
Financial Bailout: Thanks but No Thanks – What Lincoln would have said by Ellen Brown « Dandelion Salad
The solution you'll never see in the corporate media.
As much as I've disparaged "Flyover Country" in the past, I must say said Flyover Country really came through for America today. A great deal of the opposition to this bill came from rural Republicans.
Ya think the people on this board want to keep up the pressure because they are all short???
Well, after today fewer of us might be. People don't stay short forever.
Anonymous writes:
Ya think the people on this board want to keep up the pressure because they are all short???
It's not about that at all. I'm getting crushed in a commodities fund, and I still oppose the bill.
It's about Democracy. Transparency. Accountability. Stuff like that. Old-fashioned I know.
@BB: Yes, that was what I meant. And I'm also thinking about the $ 200 billion or so in swap arrangements that our ECB (I'm Dutch) have with the Fed. Which means that every citizen in Euroland has agreed to lend the Fed something like $ 1,000, to use as the Fed sees fit. Hope Bernanke will use it wisely.
@ Bonds of Steel: I certainly am not looking forward to banks failing on a massive scale, but the chances of this happening are getting bigger every day...
Everyone keeps saying that this bill is gonna pass. What's the proof?
DonKei, I don't know about Shelby, but Bachus voted FOR the bailout, and made a speech about it too.
Poll:
Should TARP become law?
Vote here:
http://polls.blogflux.com/poll-30323.html
Map of results:
http://polls.blogflux.com/mapfull-30323.html
Currently 95% No. Please vote.
John Stark writes:
A poll reported in the WaPo says that while only a small minority of the public favored the bailout plan that Bush proposed, 56 percent wanted Congress to do something "different." How many favored no action?
Eleven percent. Looks like the 11-percenters may win--although it's way too soon to tell. Another triumph of democracy.
That's not a correct reading. The only way to get Congress to do 'something different' was to defeat the existing bill. Know they knwo they have to do something different.
DOW down another 0.5% in the settle. Amazing.
retirement? nah
tirement - yeah.
CNBC is a sham-wow, as the kids over on Dealbreaker.com would say.
Now I'm reading blogs where J6Ps are screaming their 401Ks are getting creamed and the bailout needs to pass today...
yea - the vote is going to change, by the end of the week
I think the attitude is going to change to: who cares if billionaires get more free $ as long as "I" have my 401K to make me feel "rich".
don kei
please write them and tell them how proud you are of them and that they need to hold firm
please, our votes and letters and calls matter
please
An updated version of a song quoted yesterday, at my homepage.
What next:
In general, how about an appraoch that isn't a 100 page expansion of the original "fiat lux" approach?
Just thinking off the top of my head: how about closing all financial markest for a few weeks?
dow more more in the settle than it does on some 'normal' days!
"Well, after today fewer of us might be. People don't stay short forever."
Funny!!! I guess it would be too much to ask for you to let me know when you make the switch?
Oops, shoulda said Bachus did lead the charge, until his arm got twisted by the powers that be...
Shelby, though, was resolute.
CNBC - The Pravda of the financial world.
THIS BILL IS DEAD
BondsOfSteel writes:
It really sounds like some of the people here want banks to fail, buinesses to go bankrupt, and people to be unemployed.
I'm not saying if the bailout would have prevented it or now... but I am questioning what everyone is hoping for.
sigh
BondsOfSteel | 09.29.08 - 4:05 pm | #
well, i'm legally short still as opposed to the regulation that repudiated the free market last week. but that derived from years of predicting and trying to prevent this from happening on many fronts. might as well profit from it.
BUT, we're thrilled to prevent more looting and burdening the grandchildren with payola for the plutocrats.
your welcome.
Now I'm reading blogs where J6Ps are screaming their 401Ks are getting creamed and the bailout needs to pass today...
**** J6Ps don't have 401s LOL
down 720 in AH
Maybe now we'll get a more decent proposal from our legislators. One that actually does some good. One based on free markets and sound economics.
Maybe now we will take seriously some of the smart people who contribute to various discussions and who blog about this subject.
We need to do this, and now is the time. Please, no more reactionary fiscal and monetary policy.
CR - I'm still seeing some ticks go by, but nothing doing on the CBOE.
Equities, options and Nymex all look to be trading.
Did something happen this afternoon? All my stocks are down.
Ju writes:
it's not gloom for main street
Ju | 09.29.08 - 3:59 pm | #
It will be gloom for Main Street - they don't necessarily know that yet HOWEVER this bill did nothing for them anyway so WTF enjoy the schadenfreude if you got nothing else.
DJIA -735
Diane Garnick
MARRY ME
Ciao
MS
People here don't want business's to fail and people to lose thier jobs..
They want business's with good products, fair prices and financially solvent..Not business's that have no plan, fiscally responsible and don't create jobs...
Nasdaq down ~9%
S&P down ~8%
That's gonna leave a mark!
As an aside, I just got a call from Wells Fargo offering to refinance our mortgage at a lower rate. LOL.
Ju writes:
THIS BILL IS DEAD
I'd love to believe you. But you know those horror films where the beast has to die several deaths before it's really dead? I think we are in that horror film.
Now I'm reading blogs where J6Ps are screaming their 401Ks are getting creamed and the bailout needs to pass today...
yea - the vote is going to change, by the end of the week
I think the attitude is going to change to: who cares if billionaires get more free $ as long as "I" have my 401K to make me feel "rich".
Umm...that is what I kept saying in the last thread. People have no idea.
No sooner did I type that then my CBOE indices started moving again. Maybe just an Interactive Brokers hiccup?
I wonder what new, terrible fate Paulson will conjure for the world tonight, when he addresses the public on the bill's failure. Pestilence? Famine? Hm, famine sounds good.
I'm beginning to smell blood in the streets. If Ben has the wit to drop interest rates, and the Reps don't cave, we may actually have a viable and honestly profitable market once the shouting is over.
The House website is still down. Either the traffic crashed them or they are silencing dissent ahead of another vote.
How much did the DOW drop by today?
"Now I'm reading blogs where J6Ps are screaming their 401Ks are getting creamed and the bailout needs to pass today."
I'm telling you, not defining the goals is a dangerous thing. Lots of people expect a 'bailout' bill to preserve stock values, create emplpyment, keep their 401k steady...
DJIA -738
Commissar 4822 writes:
DJIA -735
Just saw the refresh. Holy shite.
I wonder what new, terrible fate Paulson will conjure for the world tonight, when he addresses the public on the bill's failure. Pestilence? Famine? Hm, famine sounds good.
Widespread hair loss.
OMG! IT'S HAPPENING TO ME ALREADY! SOMEBODY MAKE IT STOP!
"Now I'm reading blogs where J6Ps are screaming their 401Ks are getting creamed and the bailout needs to pass today..."
Yup, they couldn't turn the credit screws fast enough, the scary denial letters from the banks weren't doing the trick. Need to panic more.
My rep, Barbara Lee came through on this one. Good karma for the East Bay. Now maybe the Raiders will start winning again.
-748 now
Market dropped 140 points on the final settlements.
OMG dow down 748.21 after close, don't worry no panic... Continue swimming naked...
DJIA -748
OK, so will this be referred to as "Brown Monday"?
ren --> how did they let the chargers escape???? ARGH.. not a oakland fan, hate the chargers though....
go TEAM VENTURE!!!
Commissar 4822 writes:
DJIA -748
Is this final?
TED closed at 3.58, prolly already noted but I can't help myself...
And do not forget AIG...
) went from A to W... I guess we miss a few hedge funds. Who else?
Bombs Away...
Guess I'd better get that 'D' night watchman license soonest.
-748.21 DJIA
-199.61 NAS
-102.90 S&P
And they will all say how surprised they are about it.
SEC will ban all shorting outright overnight to try to get some of this back. Count on it.....
Ciao
MS
I have a headache.
TED spread: 3.59
In Colorado:
Tancredo R- Yes
Udall D-No
Salazar D-No
Perlmutter D -Yes
Musgrave R- No
Lamborn R-No
You can't say the Repblicans sacked this in Colorado. Salazar is my rep- and he's won my vote.
wally writes:
"Now I'm reading blogs where J6Ps are screaming their 401Ks are getting creamed and the bailout needs to pass today."
I'm telling you, not defining the goals is a dangerous thing. Lots of people expect a 'bailout' bill to preserve stock values, create emplpyment, keep their 401k steady...
wally | 09.29.08 - 4:13 pm | #
Exactly.
I had this conversation today w/ some farmers from North Dakota - pretty funny. Trying to put into 'Fargo Speak' that Wall Street isn't 'the economy'.
Thief us the night, steal we the air, shawl thiner liefest,
mine! Here, Ohere, insult the fair! Traitor, bad hearer, brave!
The lightning look, the birding cry, awe from the grave,
everflowing on the times.
We are not happy pilgrims. We will crash the market and the economy for you denying us our extortion money. You will rue the day you decided to doubt our supremacy.
Sincerely,
The Bankster Clearing House LLC
It was worth it
DJIA -770
if you like jazz
your music for tonight
Amazon.com: Things Are Getting Better: Cannonball Adderley With Milt Jackson: Music
-770 now
MS writes:
-748.21 DJIA
-199.61 NAS
-102.90 S&P
Thank you.
11 more days of this and S&P will be zero. Heh.
CNBC: More regulated world puts more pressure on economy. Hello? All this deregulation has almost wiped us out.
Update (4:10 p.m.): CNBC's Steve Liesman says congressional staffers are telling him there won't be a new vote on the bailout until Thursday.
McCain takes credit for bill before it loses
from politico.com
BB, At zero the S&P will be a buying opportunity for sure.
yup - Bush, Paulson, MSM - all contributing to making this happen and getting "their" way.
whocoodaknown...
I know I'll be sending faxes again to my senators & congresspeople at the 1st mention of a revival!
Sold most of my SRS, SKF, and DOG into the rally today.
i just don't trust that the rules won't change mid-stream anymore...
TED Spread peggin the needle
WASHINGTON (AP) The House has decided to reconvene Thursday after markets nosedive on bailout defeat.
Thursday is LONG way away
Dow down 777.68 after close OMG!!! Still, no worries continue swimming naked.
Hey CR, Is there any way you can add the number of Visitors on the main blog right next to the count of Comments. The blog has to have a real time counter for the number of comments. I would expect that it should have the Visitor count as well.
That way I can set my anxiety level properly before jumping into the comments. Thx
At zero, I'll be backing up the truck...
down 777
can't paint that type of close....ouch!!!!
Hope you took some profits on shorts if you had any left!!
They will do something overnight. Although I can't really see what that is though.
House to reconvene on Thursday...said the TV
Ciao
MS
@ MrMarket: "continue swimming naked": is that a serious suggestion? What's the weather like over there?
citibank overpaid for Wachovia, if they kept their powder dry the feds would be begging them to take WB for free tomorrow.
Poor citi, they can't do anything right.
I hope a plan is found that does not reward the greedy fools who imprudently borrowed and foolishly invested.
Do you think the market lost $700 billion today? Twice?
Mr Mortgage writes:
"OMG dow down 748.21 after close, don't worry no panic... Continue swimming naked..."
Kudos on the Simpsons quote
How far will it drop by thursday. that's what i'd like to know.
any bets?
This worser than 9/11..
-748.21 DJIA
-199.61 NAS
-102.90 S&P
Do I see the right: 1489 visitors?
O-Joe
Zephyr writes:
BB, At zero the S&P will be a buying opportunity for sure.
Heck yeah, we can remove the ban on short selling then.
Has the DOW ever moved this much in the settle? It's down almost 1%.
All the untrashorts up double digits except for damn SRS which should be topping them all but is magically invulnerable to bad news.
777 is lucky is it not!
"Well, after today fewer of us might be. People don't stay short forever."
Tell that to Gary Coleman.
Do you think the market lost $700 billion today? Twice?
No. I think a lot of leveraged funds deleveraged when they found out they wouldn't be saved by the taxpayers.
there goes the bush presidential library funded by wall street donors, at least.
worst president ever, it is now official.
1 Trillion In Market Value Lost Today
More than the bailout.
LOL!!
If we wait a bit more we can do this bailout for $350B!
Optimistic-Joe writes:
Do I see the right: 1489 visitors?
...
There were over 2000 earlier. It was pandemonium!
YouTube -
another one bites the dust
cd writes:
777 is lucky is it not!
It's a sign! I'm calling bottom.
you guys it's t-1 for hedge funds to come up with the cash. markets should probably go down another 20% on fundamentals at least, but i think we're setting up a trap here.
Tomorrow should be even more interesting.
Many folks aren't going to know what happened in the markets today...until tonight.
Also, I am curious to see how crazy Asia ends up getting.(feedback loops)
Thursday seems so far away.
Would it be down 777 if HP and BB and GWB had let things be?
2325 visitors was the high today i think
FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 674
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml
Did someone say something about end of 3Q coming up or something and that is why Paulsen wanted the plan? Also realize how Congress was still referring to it as the "Paulsen Plan" during their whining to the press conference...
Tonight will be very interesting...
It went over 3000 today - maybe Thurs the number of visitors on CR and the Dow will meet in the middle
Hope you took some profits on shorts if you had any left!!
I'm wondering what kind of personality willingly goes into that close aggressively short.
Maybe that'll be the trade of the century for those that had the nerve to do it.
That drop at the end is sooo suspicous. I'm sure the Plunge Promotion Team was at it again.
We'll definitely be under 10,000 at some point tomorrow, tho I don't know if we'll end there.
Worst-case: Down 1,000 tomorrow
Dems need to endorse the Scandinavian Plan ...
tell the Repugs take it or leave
Don't. Stop. Calling.
Congress.org - Get informed, get involved
It has dawned on me that I just missed the single greatest opportunity to make 10,000%+ returns on money that I'll ever be presented with.
I went into this all cash, with a treasury, having closed out shorts in EEV (emerging markets ultra short), GS and more.
The psychology of disappointment rules the day. Don't make promises you can't keep, Ms. Pelosi.
I wonder how much volume was traded in the last minute for the closing value to still be under calculation....20 minutes after close!
How does the Dow drop ~90pts after the bell? Is that normal settling?
--
THE LOSER ARE...
BORN-AND-BRED AMERICAN DOPES AND THE CROOKS.
Who else?
Jas
OT: I love the fact that "Nemo" has become synonymous with "First".
"Anonymous writes:
there goes the bush presidential library funded by wall street donors, at least.
worst president ever, it is now official."
Now now now, hold on there Anonymous, Double Yuh's still got a few months left.
citizen scotto writes:
Sold most of my SRS, SKF, and DOG into the rally today.
i just don't trust that the rules won't change mid-stream anymore...
The problem is that even the longs don't trust the rules.
Someone needs to fire Cox posthaste and replace him with a leader that can restore confidence in the markets regulation. Until then, I don't trust anybody's balance sheet.
Not My Real Name writes:
How does the Dow drop ~90pts after the bell? Is that normal settling?
These aren't normal times.
re: Armtwisting
Q: "Please vote for this bill, we ask you again. Won't you please vote for it with sugar on top?"
A: "So, you want me to do something incredibly unpopular that will end my political career ... so that the bill can fail to pass anyway. Hmm, throw away everything for nothing. Let me think about it .... NO!"
Commissar 4822
LOL ... Bush sure has some coat tails ...
@Anon
Who could have guessed that this bill would have not passed?
Things would have looked much different if it did.
When things are this unpredictable, cash is sanity.
@Comrade Martin
I'm quoting a mixture of Warren Buffet and Chief Wiggum from the Simpsons. Buffet said you don't know who's swimming naked next to you until the tide rolls out. In an old Simpsons episode Wiggum was flying over a pool at night in a helicopter with the lights on watching Homer and Marge swim naked in their backyard.
Point being for a year all the optimist have been dead wrong and unfortunately all the doom and gloomers have been right. Don't know what tomorrow holds but this whole problem is more then just uneducated panic, things are a lot worse then the "everything's okay" people say it is.
Inflation adjustment of an (official)14% inflation since the shrub was planted, We have an effect Dow under 9000 right now
The situation now is each party wants to blame the other for the problem. Bush tried to avert this. The atmosphere is now poisoned.
Jebus - listening to Maria B again... they are all waiting for Thursday to get another 'vote on bailout'...
How about getting after the business of trying to make stuff to sell so they can make some money between now and then? Ya think??? Is waiting for bailouts the only thing they know how to do?
Anonymous | 09.29.08 - 4:05 pm
Nailed it.
777, there goes the Asian money!
Don't make promises you can't keep, Ms. Pelosi.
And don't call your friggen bailout a "buy-in". That was just asinine.
regarding the big adjustments after the close.....I think you saw the entire system collectively hit the sell button in the final few minutes.
The news will get out to the passive investors throughout the day and we will see a continuation of this into tomorrow. But not for very long IMO.
Predictions are useless however I say it breaks 10k early and gets taken right back to where we are now.....
I've had people call me and email me that I've not spoken to for a long time asking what "they should do"....my response?
Some research!!
Hate to be blunt but that's the truth.
Ciao
MS
plschwartz writes:
Inflation adjustment of an (official)14% inflation since the shrub was planted, We have an effect Dow under 9000 right now
Thank you was just going to say something about inflation.
Considering the credit situation, it's interesting that BAC is still in the low thirties, having been below 20 just a few short months ago. JPM isn't far off a 52 week high even after today.
Someone explain what the difference between 650BB from the fed between banks and 700BB from the treasury ??????
One doesn't have hank giving it... but what else? Obviously its liquidity injection which means that the banks have it to lend right? Which is what they wanted from Hank...
CR?
Paulson wants all 401K statements mailed tonight!
Holy crap, the Fed is expanding TAF by $300 Billion to $450 Billion total. We dont need no stinkin Paulson Plan. As I have previously pointed out the Fed has a little less than $300Billion in Treasuries available (almost $200B are unavailable as they have been swapped out through TAF). Looks like the Treasury will continue to hold a bake sale for the Fed. Again I ask, do they need Congressional approval, or is this now the Ben and Hank show?
This has all become politics now, so IF any bailout is going to happen (and Im not saying it should), those that need it most will need to make their case. Some things that will have to happen:
BTW, I wrote Michael Moore and asked to to praise the 95 dems as well as the 1333 GOP'ers to be fair...
I think the Republicans need to stop peddling the "Nancy hurt our feelings boo hoo hoo" line.
YouTube -
There are people who have a 401k who will wake up tomorrow and discover they have a 301k.
WILSHIRE 5000 -1,020.03
Do you like butter with your toast?
MS writes:
I've had people call me and email me that I've not spoken to for a long time asking what "they should do"....my response?
Some research!!
And while you're doing that research -- which could legitimately take weeks of being careful -- get the HELL out of the market
Keep thinking Pelosi got the short end of the manueverings. The market goes down 777, and that was her fault? The Reps now own the financial crisis, the bailout plan, and the stock market. This is not good news for McCain.
MS,
True about Nancy, i actually believe the vote might have passed if she hadn't Bush bashed and Clinton praised right before the vote...
cut the nose to spite her face
This was never going to end well, only a matter of timing. Timers fucked up..., dam
Dow -777
Reverse jackpot...
Now you see what we can do. It will only get worse until we get our 700 Billion, and as we say in the business "You can bank on it !"
sincerely,
The Bankster Clearing House LLC
CNN has a poll, vote now. The nos are ahead only 54% to 46%.
Amazing that Pelosi couldn't shut her yap if she really wanted this to pass. Injecting politics when it wasn't needed. What a goof.
DonKei, I don't know about Shelby, but Bachus voted FOR the bailout, and made a speech about it too.
And Shelby is a Sen. so didn't vote today. He was caving in last night. So much for your heroic AL republicans!
Dow Futures -667
Why should anyone change their vote? Any thinking person knows the extortion that's going on here.
paulson coming up on cnbc
heart attack live.
Can't...stop...reading until I get one of Jas Jain's radioactively right-on born and breds.
Buh-bye
dryfly-
We wish. Unfortunately, I think that, yeah, all they know how to do is whine for a bailout.
Which is why, bad as things may get, it was necessary for the bail to fail.
good to hear from you this afternoon.
enough with the Pelosi bashing already!!
The bill did not pass because a lot of these Reps listened to their constituents. Whether they feared being voted out or not does not matter. The important thing is they listened...and perhaps they even read thoughtful commentary for and against the Plan.
I have always maintained we would see Dow 10,000 again, from the other side.
Record volume on CR equals record volume in stocks tomorrow?
Well, I think this proves that the problem has never been short sellers. The real problem we have in the market right now is those damn longs! Just because you own a stock doesn't mean you have the right to sell it! Leave that sort of action to the pros, honey.
And don't call your friggen bailout a "buy-in". That was just asinine.
JP | Homepage | 09.29.08 - 4:28 pm | #
yeah, this is the legislative branch of the US Federal government, not the World Poker Tour
"Commissar 4822 writes:
Now I'm reading blogs where J6Ps are screaming their 401Ks are getting creamed and the bailout needs to pass today...
**** J6Ps don't have 401s LOL"
actually there are many a blue collar worker and lower paid white collar secretaries and clerks for whom 401k was sold to them by their employers, financial planners, etc as a safe way to save for the future.
so some folks whom make an honest living and bought into the whole capitalism is always good and you always win if you work hard will, potentially, be seriously impacted by a larger systematic failure and there is no golden parachute. in fact no parachute at all, unless you count social security.
Joe writes:
Amazing that Pelosi couldn't shut her yap if she really wanted this to pass. Injecting politics when it wasn't needed. What a goof.
...
The republicans sure are whiners if Pelosi's comments were the only reason they voted against this bill. They would have been better served saying it was a travesty to the American taxpayer and leave it at that. They look even more ridiculous then usual with this grandstanding.
If you want to short term trade this market, at least trade in its primary direction - which is clearly down. Wait for a dead cat bounce some day this week - like up 3% or 4% with the bailout bill passing. Then short the f*ck out of the market.
Persecuted Comrade Anonymouse | Homepage | 09.29.08 - 3:58 pm | #
Tell me how you really feel.
Shortage of pigfeed? Maybe they'll start eating each other...
Dry,
But this is the Goldilocks economy. We don't have to make anything. We can just steal stuff from someone when they're not paying attention.
'This regulation is toooo big' 'This bailout is toooo small
Guess Ol Warren's Goldman goose laid a $5bill rotten egg today...but I wouldn't get too excited this is the final word on this
Jersey Girl writes:
Dow Futures -667
On top of today? So we're well under 10K?
There is a simple fix that everybody can agree to.
1.Appropriate 1 trillion for the FDIC.
2.Expand the FDIC guarantee to cover all deposits of money markets, pension plans state and local etc.
3.Guarantee all funds in transactional accounts e.g checking accounts.
4. Guarantee all interbank loans to and from banks smaller than a certain amount.
5. Allow banks to borrow 100% of the amount of any loan from the Fed.
6. Expand the SBA limits
7. Allow Fannie and Freddie to buy Commercial and Industrial loans.
8. Require that all FDIC interventions take the form of WAMU- the assets and deposits are taken out and the liabilities including compensation paid to senior executives remains behind so no tax payer funds are used help pay for golden parachutes.
Re: "There is the possibility of some arm twisting and another vote tomorrow. Another possibility is that the bill will be revised in some way to garner a few more votes.
"
Then again, I have a 3rd grade education...
jersey-
that's just reflecting today's action....the real action will be reflected in a few hours.
Might be pretty close though..
Ciao
MS
These CNBC guests are dingbats. 100% bulls. Why don't we see Peter Schiff for balance?
CNBC is total propaganda.
Posturing on both sides. Why would they blame Pelosi's speech if they were voting on behalf of their constituents? Come on folks!
Someone explain what the difference between 650BB from the fed between banks and 700BB from the treasury?
Good question.
Was hoping for an answer to it myself.
-777. Proof that the market is now truly a casino and not a free market. Today it was a free(d) market, but tomorrow, who knows.
Rollo Tomasse writes:
MS,
True about Nancy, i actually believe the vote might have passed if she hadn't Bush bashed and Clinton praised right before the vote...
cut the nose to spite her face
Rollo Tomasse | 09.29.08 - 4:31 pm | #
Did it dawn on you all that wasn't an accident? That passing this bill was NOT advantageous to Dems UNLESS GOP bought in big time?
Nancy ain't stooopid no matter what other ugly traits you ascribe to her. That speech was 'planned' baiting... just like GOP voting 'NO' en masse was planned in advance...
Dumb question.
Why do folks watch CNBC?
The problem: TOO MUCH DEBT! DEBT = CREDIT.
How is bailing out rich asset holders going to solve the problem?
Why do folks watch CNBC?
Cleavage.
Please vote in the CNBC poll:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml
Note: the question is awkward, so vote YES if you are against the bailout.
I tried to post on the previous thread and couldn't--is haloscan full?
The Reps didn't have the votes because most Americans are against this plan. That should have been the Rep's reason for failing to get a majority: we're protecting American savers and prudent taxpayers. The "blame Pelosi" game is childish and stupid. It only causes independents to watch her speech praising Clinton's surplus and Bush's deficits.