I know most of you watched O's speech but how many heard? This is a very cynical blog but I was moved. I know speeches are speeches and action is what really counts. But how do we fix America? I like his precription. Yeah it may mean a bit more socialism but what's the alternative? Free markets that are manipulated, corporate Fascism? This is a very unique politican, one we have'nt seen the likes of in more than a generation. I wish him well.
He's a smart guy. Look for Volker and Buffet to be close advisors or possibly in the cabinet. Look into this guy, he's compassionate yet a realist. He is our best choice to lead us out of this economic mess. Doesn't mean no pain, but a chance.
Wow, what a bunch of dumb optimists. Our political system is broken. Totally broken, from Congress to the Courts to everything that our Founders wanted this country to be.
The only solution is to give the country back to the people who paid in blood for it... not Harvard lawyers but people lie kthe reader[s [and cokmmentors f this blog!
The same damn way it has been paid for for the last 30+ years, currency debasement,inflation which is touted a growth and a jiggering of what is in the CPI. Ain't no other way unless he is going to put a fork in SS and Medicare and tell the damn truth which ain't gonna happen.
When they are fighting the people are relatively safe, it's when they all start agreeing that the general populace take one in the butt.
Anonymous | 08.28.08 - 11:55 pm | #
Give me divided gov't with checks & balances or give me death...
That has been the guiding principal in my political philosophy since about the time of Reagan. The more divided the better... Just tune out the rhetoric and learn to love gridlock. Then sleep soundly at night ever after.
THE INTENSITY FORECAST IS PROBLEMATIC. GUSTAV IS SHOWING GOOD OUTFLOW IN ALL DIRECTIONS AT THIS TIME...BUT THERE IS EVIDENCE OF NORTHERLY VERTICAL SHEAR UNDERCUTTING THE OUTFLOW. THE LARGE-SCALE MODELS SUGGEST THIS SHOULD SUBSIDE IN ABOUT 24 HOURS...WHICH WOULD ALLOW SIGNIFICANT AND POSSIBLY RAPID INTENSIFICATION OVER THE WARM
WATERS OF THE NORTHWESTERN CARIBBEAN. A COMPLICATING FACTOR IS THE UPPER-LEVEL TROUGH CURRENTLY SEEN IN WATER VAPOR IMAGERY OVER THE GULF OF MEXICO. THE LARGE-SCALE MODELS FORECAST THIS FEATURE TO RETREAT WESTWARD AS GUSTAV APPROACHES...WITH HIGH PRESSURE BUILDING OVER THE SOUTHEASTERN GULF. HOWEVER...THE MODELS DO NOT AGREE ON
HOW MUCH THE TROUGH WILL MOVE...WITH THE UKMET IN PARTICULAR SHOWING THE POSSIBILITY OF SHEAR AS GUSTAV APPROACHES THE NORTHERN GULF COAST. THE SHIPS MODEL CALLS FOR A PEAK INTENSITY OF 99 KT...THE LGEM MODEL 94 KT...THE GFDL 111 KT...AND THE HWRF 137 KT. THE LATTER IS DEFINITELY NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION. THE INTENSITY FORECAST IS INCREASED OVER THE PREVIOUS FORECAST IN BEST AGREEMENT
WITH THE GFDL. HOWEVER...IT WOULD BE NO SURPRISE IF RAPID
INTENSIFICATION OCCURRED AND GUSTAV BECAME A CATEGORY 4 OR 5
HURRICANE BY 72 HR.
To just say let them gridlock misses the point of governance. Fawed as it is would you not want justice, or balance in affairs of State? Gridlock is not equalibrium. It just provides cover for the corruption rampant in the system.
Bush will be the last incumbent / mainline politician that I vote for. Seriously folks, Tanta and CR would make better President/Representative/Senators than anyone we have now. I want a truly open government where any phonelines paid for by "the people" are bugged and the public can hear what everyone else is yelling at their politicians to. That way when they say, "I voted in accordance with the public" we can actually check them. Second everyone they meet is logged as is the amount of time they meet together. Third, their pay is tied to percentage of American median salary. Maybe just the straight median (I have no idea what that is). Actually it should be tied to the median of the area they represent. We place a giant bug in Washington DC and track and monitor all of the movement of them and their staff. This not only includes Congress, but also includes all branches of the executive. Obviously there are some things in government that are sensitive and hidden like defense, but we open that up as well.
I'm sick of our corrupt government, and apparently it's getting worse for the past 30 years. I mean the fact that still 80% of the voters vote either R or D makes me agree with Jas Jain assesment of Americans... we are a bunch of idiots, myself included, but not anymore. We don't even have decent options. Can't I vote for a fellow engineer, or a fellow teacher or a fellow who would be like someone I live next door?
It's obvious the slimy lawyers we have in all branches and areas of government and corporate VPs or whomever are nothing like the people they represent. Oh wait, I mean they all represent people like them which is something like 10% of the true America... seriously I can't vote for a farmer... I can't vote for a official clerk or something? I can't vote for Tanta or CR? Seriously?
This democracy really sucks and the sooner we realize we can do better and throw the bums out the better... but as it is we just pretend like 50% of the people are our "enemies" and even though we agree on 75% of stuff we let the other 25% get in the way...
Sorry but I'm sick of politics because nothing is going to change!
I'm sorry but I think right now the blogosphere and the people are ready to be the "check"... we need to demand that we get to be the "check". We process all sorts of useless information, but people are now starting to get it with processing the crap coming out of Congress... we need to make sure they can't hide. Too bad we can't somehow get into the Executive, but we need to get Congress back to be the check... maybe once the people get Congress back we can check the Executive... oh boy a real democracy!
No FA gridlock is inertia - if I wanted action I'd propose we have a parliamentary form of gov't with a VERY weak constitution - tyranny of the majority.
I'm perfectly happy with change happening slowly - slower the better. I wish somebody had thrown the brake during early part of Bush - but we weren't 'divided' enough. If O get's elected I hope like hell they challenge him as hard as Bush SHOULD have been challenged. Same with McM.
I sense O is different. We all go into the voting booth and pull the lever but are we sure we know if it's the right decision. Give the guy a chance. He sure seems to want it.
I turned on the TV for the first time in... a year may be. The speech was brilliant, but mostly I just had a very surprising feeling a complete unison with Obama. Something I have probably never felt listening to a political speech.
The US should be proud, and I am sure is the envy of a lot of people in Europe and elsewhere.
I would also have loved seeing a women president, but I know that a black man becoming president will mean the world to the black community and that is heart warming... and that is not too early either.
Formerly Apolitical writes:
I sense O is different. We all go into the voting booth and pull the lever but are we sure we know if it's the right decision. Give the guy a chance. He sure seems to want it.
Formerly Apolitical | 08.29.08 - 12:18 am | #
Straight from spin team central... sorry but that smells an awful lot like astroturf to me.
We got ourselves a real mess don't we? But you know it's not O's fault. He's sticking his neck out and saying I believe I can help. Waht are you folks doing? Phil Gramm may be right.
Ahh. since this thread has hit political points, weather, and silly puns I dont feel too bad nattering on a bit in an off-topic direction.
I started school this term at the community college. Tonight was the first class for my Real Estate Law class (going for a paralegal degree).
My instructor has been a paralegal specializing in tax law then decide to become a lawyer and did securities law, then decided to become a financial advisor and worked for a brokerage for 15 years, now teaching. hehehehe. This is going to be fun.
During the obligatory intro-fest most classmates mentioned family law, and criminal law and very very noble quests to serve low-income people. My turn came. Calmly explained that the drama and angst of family law left me with migraines, and as noble as free work sounded I was to mercenary and wanted to make sure I can support myself and son into future, so looking for something to dovetail with the soon-to-be son of RTC or the legal takedowns of the IB's and brokerages like the BK of jefferson county etc.
Smiled real large, real big, real sharklike at my new teach.
"Give the guy a chance. He sure seems to want it."
Formerly Apolitical when you vote, go ahead and vote for him just quit trying to justify why you are doing so by telling everyone on this board about why we should. I don't really think other then which group of the rich get the most benefit from this election it make a damn bit of difference which one wins.
Since Seb and O-Joe aren't here I thought I stir up the natives a bit. Got you all going. So what? Nothing but griping here and a lot of I told you so's. Thats RP and Nader's game. Never get those guys elected. Hey lets just tear the system down or watch it self destruct while eating popcorn. Do you ever realize how sick you all are?
Formerly Apolitical writes:
Hey dryfly, find a cave. I appreciate your perspective on the manufacturing climate in a practical sense but boy you have lost faith have'nt you?
Formerly Apolitical | 08.29.08 - 12:25 am | #
Faith? I've never had faith in EITHER party. It has nothing to do with faith.
Jimmy Carter was the most decent guy to become president in my lifetime - and he was one of the worst presidents ever. I never thought I'd ever see anyone as bad but Bush seems to have topped that.
Personally I'd settle for competence & checks-n-balances... that is a system that will generate good policy more often than 'faith' & 'persona'.
"In this election, in every election, you get two choices: do you want to want to be abused with a plastic broom handle or a wooden one?"
personally I welcome an election where rather than my own personal interest I get a chance to focus what will make the biggest difference for so many people.
... and anyway, if you do not want to help build the schools you will have to help build the jails instead
"The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost invariably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And if he is not romantic personally, he is apt to spread discontent among those who are."
Henry Louis Mencken (1880 - 1956)
You know mp - you said you wish you had a check box for 'no confidence' [I agree - or 'none of the above' then require a majority to win else run off]...
I wish we had a 'divided gov't' check box... don't even care which party has what... just make sure they AREN'T of the same party. Not sure how to operationalize that except for a coin toss... but there are worse ways to pick gov'ts that a coin toss.
Long Obama. Short barely and jg. Have decided that this "ross" is an insufferable douchebag. Never thought I'd find a CR commenter that made me nostalgiac for sloowww motion.
Bu the way, I would bet MY LIFE that Tanta and CR will vote for Obama. McCain is a sad, sad joke at this point. No answers, no solutions, only a desire to win. And for what?
Formerly Apolitical writes:
Bunch of incorrigibles. OK be that way. Don't matter a hill of beans cause I'm not trying to convert anybody.
Formerly Apolitical | 08.29.08 - 12:38 am | #
Actually I'm not trying to unconvert you either - I feel nothing for McM and I'm generally more angry at the GOP after Bush than I am toward the Dems though that could always change.
I just don't get all jiggy over candidates anymore - of either party. A week from now we'll get the McCain bandwagon rolling through - I'll be as unexcited about them as I am about Team O.
But as we watched the show, I agreed with a fair amount of what he said, and my wife could only ask "where's the money going to come from?" And she's right.
And as for being "one of us", the large majority of "us" don't have some piddlin' little $1M or $2.
I might easily vote for the guy. But knock off the asshat remarks.
Paul or Nader would do the least amount of damage... so... I don't know what some people here are talking about. How can someone run the government when they have zero allies from either party in Congress? Talk about gridlock...
let me encourage you to run for elected public office.
its a great experience
you would see, i predict that politician largely represent the cross section of humanity, good, band, somewhat honest, and some, somewhat crooked etc.
but most of all you would see how hard it is to walk the line as interest groups and individuals come at you constantly from all directions demanding their will be done.
the country needs citizens to step forward, and its a daunting challenge.
Personally I'd settle for competence & checks-n-balances... that is a system that will generate good policy more often than 'faith' & 'persona'.
In this case (O) my "perception" is that "persona" itself is the "product" of competence.
Nobody is ever prepared to be president (Clinton -the first- citation).
I have always prefered hiring people with the ability to adapt fast, rather than experience. I sense Obama "has got it", it is not faith, I would rather call it "intuition".
Mock turtle, noble sentiments, but I have neither the inclination, nor the ability to build consensus. I am the head wolf in a small wolf pack and do not play well with others.
Having said that, I could see myself as Secretary of Transportation in your administration.
I would, after applying a massive level of voltage to the genitalia of key players, have the trains running on time in very short order.
But as we watched the show, I agreed with a fair amount of what he said, and my wife could only ask "where's the money going to come from?" And she's right.
No she's wrong - you can always print the money so getting the money isn't the challenge... ask where are the RESOURCES going to come from to sustain that vision. Activities require resources... we just 'price' them in dollars.
If we are productive enough we'll have the resources in abundance to do all that and more so ask how are his policies going to promote a system that produces resources & utilizes them efficiently to be self sustaining WITHOUT taking too many resources from other 'worthwhile activities' we value?
My guess is he didn't answer that. No one is asking let alone answering that.
I actually think that Carter was one of the best presidents but least appreciated.
His vision and approach to solving U.S. energy dependence on the ME was right on the mark though clearly early.
I also really liked his approach and success in getting Arabs and Israelis to the negotiation table.
He was fiscally quite conservative and can't realistically be blamed for the high inflation of the period as it was caused primarily by the after effects of the Vietnam war spending and resulting money supply expansion.
Oh yes, he also appointed Volker for which he should also get 5 stars.
We haven't seen much of this quality from anybody since.
I might easily vote for the guy. But knock off the asshat remarks.
homedad43 | Homepage | 08.29.08 - 12:48 am | #
I might vote for him too - depends on how much McCain pisses me off... I am currently WAY more angry at GOP than Dems (because of the neocons)... but like I said - that could change.
::::
I sense Obama "has got it", it is not faith, I would rather call it "intuition".
Genevieve | 08.29.08 - 12:55 am | #
His choice of Biden suggested to me he doesn't have it. Biden is the guy who jammed BK reform through - the only two guys on the Dem side MORE beholden to big money / big bank interests would have been Dodd &/or Schumer.
My instincts tell me that was a very bad choice...
Unfortunately the economic advisors he has around him will answer the question of where the money will come from by starting off with "first assume untapped and presently untaxed resources and productivity..."
I actually think that Carter was one of the best presidents but least appreciated.
GOP is trying to spin Bush the same way. Nice try - bad luck.
Vision doesn't feed the dog - execution does. Carter didn't execute on his vision, didn't adapt well to bad cards that were dealt him - his presidency was a complete failure. Bush's will be looked at similarly.
There have been others who were dealt a bad hand & still played the cards pretty well - Truman comes to mind. Neither Bush nor Carter played their hands half as well as Truman & his cards were about as bad as they get.
Just got to listen to Gore. (re run on PBS).
Being another cynic on a venue for cynics, I was struck Gore's comments.
Specially that the status quo is resistant to change.
Wonder how far the status quo will to prevent change, will it before the election or after the election.
I disagree. Carter refreshingly little about spin with much more action.
I won't even put Bush and Carter in the same league. One started an unprovoked war with huge consequences down the line and the other avoided a war that most U.S. presidents would gladly have entered.
In retrospect very smart though conventional thought at the time was quite different.
"fascist" is a word that's been bandied around a great deal and I really haven't given it much credence.
But in the past year, I've reconsidered given the government/IB/Big Business ties.
The whole TFCH thing is beginning to appeal to me.
And then BO turns around in the speech and talks about supporting the Auto Industry as they retool for more fuel efficient, alt energy vehicles. More of the same or just trying to support large employee businesses?
We'll see when the loans come with significant reins on exec pay/perks/bonuses. Or not.
dryfly, I think you're thinking of a Cheney Vice Presidency. Biden is a "made man" pol, but a good center choice (maybe to reassure the moneybags,) but he's not the one who would be signing the Bills or setting the agenda.
It might also be borne in mind that there will be a clean sweep of the Departments with the new broom (should O be elected.)
Otherwise, it's four more years of the same incompetence.
carters presidency, like bush 2 failed but for entirely different reasons i would suggest
carter got wacked by his own party... he was not supposed to win the nomination and one wing of the party held a grudge, he could not get his agenda thru congress.
bush on the other hand went 7 years without exercising a veto and got much of what he wanted of any significance except privatizing social security.
Carter was and is a pretty decent guy wrong sometimes but a mensch
bush on the other hand unashamedly demonstrates believes he is above the law and has the right to use government contracts to enrich his friends
Wonder how far the status quo will to prevent change, will it before the election or after the election.
Inertia is our friend - every one says they want 'change' - they all have their idea of what desirable change is... the reason things rarely change much is that we each have a personal vision of utopia... but the second best alternative is status quo...
But my idea of utopia is your idea of hell and vise versa... so we all fall back to our 'second choice' which is status quo. Nothing changes.
Its only when status quo falls so far down the list of desirable outcomes for many of us that other options besides our idea of utopia [compromises] become 'actionably viable'. It takes time for people's heads to get there... that's classic 'change agent' boiler plate but still makes sense.
What is the old saying... "Don't let the pursuit of perfection delay adoption of the pretty good"... something like that.
Wow. I'm still surprised people think this system works or is the best or is even worth letting continue.
The one thing lacking in all of the candidates that I can remember is character. I don't want a spin-meister president, I want one that is honest. I don't appreciate someone who is tied in politically trying to pretend like he is not tied in politically (although its very true that Obama is quite green in DC, so was Bush). I don't like someone who has been a part of the problem for the past 26 years to all of a sudden pretend like he is going to become the solution.
I don't like rich pretending to be poor or like poor people, or even middle class people. The way our political system is run it is based on rock-star and driven by charisma. The whole tit-for-tat that the political class and hard-core politicos do is aboslutly horrible.
I really do think people with political aspirations are evil and don't care for the public good...
"Its only when status quo falls so far down the list of desirable outcomes for many of us that other options besides our idea of utopia [compromises] become 'actionably viable'."
It might also be borne in mind that there will be a clean sweep of the Departments with the new broom (should O be elected.)
There will be a sweep no matter who gets in. McM has no love for Team Bush after South Carolina 2000.
Ideologically though GWB & McM are more alike than McM & O - but are any of these folks that different - that was my point about Biden... he is more GOP-like than many GOPers. Why him if O is such the change agent?
I've only heard one rationalization for Biden - he's an attack dog. It lets the Dems bite hard without blood getting on O.
I am wondering who McM will pick - GOP has more surrogates wiling to bite but usually the VP is lead attack dog (see Cheney). Some are saying McM's VP will be Pawlenty from Minnie... if so his attack dog will be a poodle.
Thanks for that cartoon, CR. The best thing about it is that it's from 2003. And everybody was still denying their was a bubble in '05/'06/'07.
In fact, speaking of Obama, he- and every other Democrat- is still denying their is a bubble TODAY.
Obama has a lot of appeal. But he lost me for good when he started saying a few months back that "the government needs to put a floor under home prices".
Obviously, he is completely, utterly, out of touch with this problem of overpriced housing bleeding Americans to death. (Despite all the foreclosures! He still doesn't get it!)
You'll notice that he mentioned falling home prices as an "economic problem" again in his speech tonight.
He's an inflationist, pure and simple.
I have no desire to spend the next several years watching more and more people get thrown under the bridge (literally, homeless) by these inflationist lunatics, just so a few people at the top can pretend everything's okay.
Obama and his wife Michelle are a handsome, well-spoken couple who would present a great "face" to the world for the US.
But they'd be the death of this country as we know it. By the time Obama's through with us, half the populace will be on the government dole, barely squeaking by on their paltry monthly allotments. All because of out of control inflation meant to save those nutcases who spent too much and gambled on reckless bets.
That's my gut reaction, so I can't vote for him. The prospect is too scary.
From '45 to '48, we had the most powerful persuader on the planet. Nukes.
Why was Russia allowed eastern Europe and the beginning of the cold war.
If 'give em hell Harry' was given a royal flush, he flushed his chance to disarm the world.
Three years to disarm the world and what did we get? Soviet Nukes and Korea.
Ross | 08.29.08 - 1:25 am | #
My father had spent the whole war in the military... so did his brothers & BILs... all of them from 40 & 41 through to 46... one more war & they'd been in rebellion. My father & his buddies have told me as much... they were done, time to go home. Finis.
If we wanted to push Stalin out we'd have had to used the bomb, probably over and over and over. Anyone willing to see 20 million of his own people die in WWII wouldn't mind 10 or 20 or 30 million more.
Plus if you know anything about Manhattan (I do) you know we didn't have the productive capacity to produce a lot of bombs until early 50s... so HT was looking at the Red Army staring at our troops... with an ocean in between the US & our army. No viable allies in Europe (destroyed infrastructure)... and it would have been mostly a conventional war anyway.
And he's going to push Stalin out of Eastern Europe? That would have destroyed the Republic. Using nukes would have destroyed the Republic in the worlds's eyes as well. There was no win for us in any of that.
The smartest thing to have done was what he did - wait them out based on the conviction we have a superior system and will win in the end based on ideas not only on force. Meanwhile hold them at bay w/ MAD and hope like hell it works. It did.
I wish Bush had that kind of courage facing Islamic Militants... we'd be a lot better off today if he did.
i know personally some really fine people who are politicians, and i know some of the worst s.o.b.s
the closer a politician is to the local level, usually the better.
we could do 3 things to improve the system right away.
financing...individual donations from people who live within the boundaries of the office...no out of state or out of jurisdiction contributions...limit 1000 dollars even to fund yourself!!!
no corporate, no union, no organizational, nor foreign countries contributions period...only citizens can fund campaigns
return the number of representatives in the house to one rep for every 20,000 citizens...so that a person could run for office on a shoe string...now each rep in congress represents more than half a million and needs big money to run.
FT Woods writes:
I'd be willing to bet McCain picks Romney as he's a strong contrast to McCain. He's younger, from the Northeast, plus his Bain connections.
FT Woods | 08.29.08 - 2:04 am | #
The rumors around here (Minnesota) is that Pawlenty is canceling prior appointments - like he has something else important that has 'just popped up'.
Could be rumors or a red herring to get media attention from O but that is what my wife heard to today at work - some of her bosses have connections in the state GOP - who knows.
dryfly writes:
"His choice of Biden suggested to me he doesn't have it. Biden is the guy who jammed BK reform through "
yes, I was asking about that on another thread.
Clearly Biden was chosen for other priorities, like foreign policy expertise. Of course there too you will find people to dispute his level of expertise, as well as his track record (opposing the surge in Iraq).
But he chose Biden to "oppose" Mc Cain, and I don't think the financial crisis will be the issue (incredibly).
But it has to be "first: get elected"
Is there a website DONOTVOTE08.com?
I mean both of those guys are real nice in their own ways and I have respect for them. However being nice is not enough for me. I just don't think they represent me.
I would love to see someone telling people his/her mind and trying to figure out practical solutions instead of just telling people what they want to hear.
So, is there such website?
P.S. It has to contain little to NULL conspiracy theories, please.
Character is the worst way to pick a politician. It only guarantees you've picked someone slick enough to get you to buy his lies. I'm voting for Obama because I think the future is going downward no matter who gets the job so we might as well make history. So what if he f's up? Like we haven't survived the last eight years. Voters thought that voting GOP would be better for the country and where has that gotten us? Exactly how much worse would either Kerry or Gore have been? I would have voted for McCain in 2000 (I voted for Bush's daddy), but nooooo, we got the idiot.
Cynical? The only way we'll have a positive change is through forced emigration. I look at the American people and I'm forced to agree with JJ.
truman: horrible, unpopular for a reason. handed europe to stalin, china to mao, and the middle east to wackos for decades. ironically, he made the most insightful comment about WW2 to come out of the US at the time, june 23 '41, look it up
carter: unfairly handed lbj and nixon's inflation. still, evangelics are mental midgets by definition, as he has since proven
the current race: we're screwed by demographics. the real nail in the coffin was the delay/AARP donut bill. it really doesn't matter who we elect - we're screwed until the median baby boomer dies, though RE and equities should look into this event a bit before it happens. britain in the 30s, usa in the 70s, japan in the 90s in a blender.
Hated Nixon personally, but he did three things that redeem his presidency in my eyes: lowered the voting age to eighteen so at least soldiers could vote, got out of Vietnam, and recognized Red China. Sad to say, I don't think many others could have done it.
I think the largest fault in any Economic policy is inability of people that propose it to admit to themselves: "I don't know".
It is often the case that the policy has unexpected consequences. That's why the self-regulating market is often does much better job.
Can't we just have a council of elders that have been thoroughly vetted from youth, who have exhibited no interest in professional politics, and are old enough to have a more objective view of society and what's good for it? Blend this together with our "individual rights or death" mentality somehow, and we might have a winner.
ixon also played both sides in '68 to keep the war going, illegally bombed hundreds of thousands and set the stage for the khmer rouge, helped legitimize mao, looked the other way as hank k created multiple miniature dirty wars for personal profit, spent until the abandonment of BW was inevitable (setting up the various inflationary bubbles of the past 40 years and our transformation from the world's creditor to world's debtor) and, perhaps worst of all, poisoned american politics for decades with his southern strategy, a strategy whose fullest flowering was the gop control of all 3 branches recently.
"he only way we'll have a positive change is through forced emigration. I look at the American people and I'm forced to agree with JJ."
Is it a sarcasm? Have you look at other people? All people are the same, have a huge potential of screwing up
There is only one way to limit that destructive potential - individual thinking, and people in the US think for themselves ether more or at least on the same level as other countries.
(Usually more
Does anyone care that the next president will probably have a couple of supremes to appoint? McCain said just the other day that he would appoint people like Scalia and Thomas. Bye-bye woman's right to choose.
I'm a plagiarist and a liar. Even Dukakis got the better of me back in '87. This time around, it's white on white crime. I might not be a war hero, but my son is, and I'll wave his bloody red shirt. McCain has no chance. I just hope nobody does a background check on me. BRB...I need to go make-out with my grand daughter.
Meanwhile, from Marketwatch:
U.S. personal income, spending fall in July
By Greg Robb
Last update: 8:30 a.m. EDT Aug. 29, 2008
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - Real consumer spending fell 0.4% in July, the Commerce Department reported Thursday. This is the biggest drop since June 2004. Nominal spending rose 0.2%. Personal income fell 0.7% in July, the biggest drop since August 2005. Real disposable incomes fell 1.7% in July. This is the second straight large monthly drop in the wake of the government stimulus payments. Inflation surged in the month. The core personal consumption expenditure price index rose 0.3% in July compared with June and is up 2.4% in the past year. This is the largest gain since September 2006. Wall Street economists had expected a 0.4% decline in incomes, a 0.2% gain in nominal spending and a 0.3% rise in the core PCE.
sdtfs,
re Nixon..getting us out of Vietnam...sorry, but you are totally incorrect. Nixon, under Kissinger's guidance, widened the war with the invasion of Cambodia, hugely escalating both American and civilian casualties in two countries. The NVA finally overran the US forces, culminating in our abandonment of Saigon, and the "incursion" into Cambodia empowered the Khmer Rouge, turning that sorry country into a genocidal slaugherhouse.
At the same time, Nixon approved the overthrow of the government in Chile,and the assasination of it's leadership, installing the murderous Pinochet regime.
The Intrade gaming site shows that the current favorite for Republican Vice-Presidential nomination is Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, at 80 (last trade).
Speaking as "Exit", I'm not in favor or "no exit".
Remember when this meme was played in previous elections? "Are you better off today than (x) years ago?" Well, are we?
BG is personally better off so will vote status quo. YSLP is a tin-foil hatter about politicians (we go the same haberdasher), Formerly Apolitical is astroturfing as Dryfly points out.
But if the focus returns to that question, which of the two candidates is more likely to continue mining the vein of the present administration?
"Change", like "Leadership", is a red herring. Institutionally the systems are too huge to either change or lead effectively. Mostly it's PR, and then left to the judiciary to decide whether local rules and laws pass muster.
And that leads to the question of the judiciary. If McCain is elected, Roe V Wade goes down, but that won't prevent abortions, just make them more dangerous. It will likely ensure, however, that meaningful prosecution of the types of financial wizardry that was / is the hallmark of the Bush administration's laissez-faire regulatory attitude, will go unpunished. And if for that reason alone, unless McCain can unlink from the far right, is reason enough to vote for his opponent.
Exit I am not that cynical. Change always happens and I just want the least bad of the available options.
looking at Obama's speech and the others who went before him, I have hope.
there was one guy, a normal guy, who said, we need somebody who puts Barney Smith before Smith Barney. there were many former republicans on the stage who told their story of voting republican all their life and now can't vote republican. during the primaries in some states twice as many people voted in the democratic primaries. in some states it was as many as five times. i think republicans are headed to a major ass whipping and it couldn't happen to better bunch of pigs.
truman: horrible, unpopular for a reason. handed europe to stalin, china to mao, and the middle east to wackos for decades.
Again HUGE misread of history - he did not HAND OVER E Europe to Stalin & China to Mao - he was unwilling to spend another 50-100 million lives to recapture what was already taken & 'lost'. Instead wait them out - in my book that makes him a hero.
We need more like that not more neocon BS...
As for the middle east claim - some reality there but again... many of those states evolved on their own (like Iraq & Syria)... not much we could do unless we wanted to start the 'surge' 4 or 5 decades sooner.
People learn nothing from history so relive and relive and relive.
And that leads to the question of the judiciary. If McCain is elected, Roe V Wade goes down, but that won't prevent abortions, just make them more dangerous. It will likely ensure, however, that meaningful prosecution of the types of financial wizardry that was / is the hallmark of the Bush administration's laissez-faire regulatory attitude, will go unpunished. And if for that reason alone, unless McCain can unlink from the far right, is reason enough to vote for his opponent.
Exit | 08.29.08 - 9:36 am | #
You summed up why I am more than likely to vote for O - my sis & I covered that topic probably 3-4 months ago exactly with that same result. One of the reasons I didn't listen to his speech - it didn't matter - I wasn't going to vote for him for him but against the 'right' if I vote at all. Sad commentary I know but that is the way it is in my head.
If McCain repudiates the right completely evidenced by VP selection & rhetoric at convention I might reconsider - won't happen - he's bought & paid for too.
big wheels sometmes become flat tires
and some people that miss the boat get a little dinghy
You deserve a break today
So get out and get away
To the Sierras... CR.
Obviously not a poetic bone in my body.
Have Fun!
tin foil hat stuff
YouTube -
By the look of things, everyone is watching Barrack Huessin bin Biden Obama and maybe his mama. Next week it's McCain and Abel. Will it never end???
Silly season, go away.
I'm guess'n some still vote or watch
for the entertainment value. Fair enough.
So, Big Wheel Keep On Churning. Proud Mary........ etc.
Ten tons of Japanese news coming out at 5AM, Ross. Most of the commentary is still in the previous thread.
If I'm not mistaken, Adam Smith is in the passenger seat with a perplexed expression.
AB,
Thanks...oops
OT but WOW!
I know most of you watched O's speech but how many heard? This is a very cynical blog but I was moved. I know speeches are speeches and action is what really counts. But how do we fix America? I like his precription. Yeah it may mean a bit more socialism but what's the alternative? Free markets that are manipulated, corporate Fascism? This is a very unique politican, one we have'nt seen the likes of in more than a generation. I wish him well.
Yeah, it was nice to hear something positive for a change. dunno how he's gonna pay for it all.
I liked the spirit of compromise; hate the political bickering.
He mentioned the economy first, so I suppose he does understand that we are in deep $hit.
He's a smart guy. Look for Volker and Buffet to be close advisors or possibly in the cabinet. Look into this guy, he's compassionate yet a realist. He is our best choice to lead us out of this economic mess. Doesn't mean no pain, but a chance.
This is a very cynical blog...
That would be me...
Check out the graphics at the National Hurricane Center:
National Hurricane Center
Pretty nifty how they have modified that since last year.
Dryfly,
I admit to being cynical myself but I was moved. We got to give this guy a chance. How can he screw it up more than it already is?
Agree...I am going long BO!
Hurricane Season: Hannah and Her Sisters?
Wow, what a bunch of dumb optimists. Our political system is broken. Totally broken, from Congress to the Courts to everything that our Founders wanted this country to be.
The only solution is to give the country back to the people who paid in blood for it... not Harvard lawyers but people lie kthe reader[s [and cokmmentors f this blog!
Sorory 3 year old fighting me
and short McSame!
"dunno how he's gonna pay for it all."
The same damn way it has been paid for for the last 30+ years, currency debasement,inflation which is touted a growth and a jiggering of what is in the CPI. Ain't no other way unless he is going to put a fork in SS and Medicare and tell the damn truth which ain't gonna happen.
What me cynical? Damn straight I am.
YLSP,
Doesn't work that way dude. Give power to the mob and you get the French Revolution. Not my vision of the future for America.
dryfly writes:
This is a very cynical blog...
That would be me...
to recognize "no exit" in our political economy does not mean one is cynical about everything, does it?
No exit would mean defeatist. Find a cave.
Gustav headed right for the oil patch:
Tropical Depression FRED
This is a very cynical blog but I was moved.
I was moved to grab my wallet.
Just in time for the Repub convention.
Anak--you think we shouldn't try? We
try even if we go down fighting. We don't give up.
Oh and you haven't been concerned about your wallet with BushCo?
"I liked the spirit of compromise; hate the political bickering."
When they are fighting the people are relatively safe, it's when they all start agreeing that the general populace take one in the butt.
McC is gonna have to really demonstrate that he's not the wrinkly white guy.
Repub convention summmary - "Reagan was great..."
Meanwhile we and Central/South America pay for his horrible policies
I went to reach for my wallet during the Bush term and they were worth a lot less...
Reagan is so 20 years ago.
"I went to reach for my wallet during the Bush term and they were worth a lot less..."
That crap took off with Nixon and we're just starting to getting warmed up.
O has got the Reagan charisma and humble origins to boot. What's he got? $1 mill, maybe $2. That's not his game or what he's about.
wow, we're off to the races on this thread now.
Yeah, when I started this after O's speech ther were 20 on line now its over 60!
I just checked Hurrevac and Hanna's cone of probability is huge. Also, the storms hit within their cones of probability only 70% of the time.
The big news tommorow will be DELL..if the stock does not take the Nas with it, the fix is in!
Must go to bed now. Nitey nite.
Cheerfulness is a good thing, not a bad thing.
im long on obama also,
because he's at least twice as intelligent as bush and
he's new to washington (young and lack of DC exposure a plus)
the financial whores have had less time to sink their hooks
When they are fighting the people are relatively safe, it's when they all start agreeing that the general populace take one in the butt.
Anonymous | 08.28.08 - 11:55 pm | #
Give me divided gov't with checks & balances or give me death...
That has been the guiding principal in my political philosophy since about the time of Reagan. The more divided the better... Just tune out the rhetoric and learn to love gridlock. Then sleep soundly at night ever after.
Tropical Depression FRED Forecast Discussion?
THE INTENSITY FORECAST IS PROBLEMATIC. GUSTAV IS SHOWING GOOD OUTFLOW IN ALL DIRECTIONS AT THIS TIME...BUT THERE IS EVIDENCE OF NORTHERLY VERTICAL SHEAR UNDERCUTTING THE OUTFLOW. THE LARGE-SCALE MODELS SUGGEST THIS SHOULD SUBSIDE IN ABOUT 24 HOURS...WHICH WOULD ALLOW SIGNIFICANT AND POSSIBLY RAPID INTENSIFICATION OVER THE WARM
WATERS OF THE NORTHWESTERN CARIBBEAN. A COMPLICATING FACTOR IS THE UPPER-LEVEL TROUGH CURRENTLY SEEN IN WATER VAPOR IMAGERY OVER THE GULF OF MEXICO. THE LARGE-SCALE MODELS FORECAST THIS FEATURE TO RETREAT WESTWARD AS GUSTAV APPROACHES...WITH HIGH PRESSURE BUILDING OVER THE SOUTHEASTERN GULF. HOWEVER...THE MODELS DO NOT AGREE ON
HOW MUCH THE TROUGH WILL MOVE...WITH THE UKMET IN PARTICULAR SHOWING THE POSSIBILITY OF SHEAR AS GUSTAV APPROACHES THE NORTHERN GULF COAST. THE SHIPS MODEL CALLS FOR A PEAK INTENSITY OF 99 KT...THE LGEM MODEL 94 KT...THE GFDL 111 KT...AND THE HWRF 137 KT. THE LATTER IS DEFINITELY NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION. THE INTENSITY FORECAST IS INCREASED OVER THE PREVIOUS FORECAST IN BEST AGREEMENT
WITH THE GFDL. HOWEVER...IT WOULD BE NO SURPRISE IF RAPID
INTENSIFICATION OCCURRED AND GUSTAV BECAME A CATEGORY 4 OR 5
HURRICANE BY 72 HR.
was most impressed by the short speech given by president Eisenhowers daughter
she was sincere and and made it clear we are in serious trouble as a nation, and she supported obama
dryfly
i would support divided government if we were on a level glide path
right now we are about to augur into the deck thanks to the neocon wing of the repub party
Dryfly,
To just say let them gridlock misses the point of governance. Fawed as it is would you not want justice, or balance in affairs of State? Gridlock is not equalibrium. It just provides cover for the corruption rampant in the system.
Bush will be the last incumbent / mainline politician that I vote for. Seriously folks, Tanta and CR would make better President/Representative/Senators than anyone we have now. I want a truly open government where any phonelines paid for by "the people" are bugged and the public can hear what everyone else is yelling at their politicians to. That way when they say, "I voted in accordance with the public" we can actually check them. Second everyone they meet is logged as is the amount of time they meet together. Third, their pay is tied to percentage of American median salary. Maybe just the straight median (I have no idea what that is). Actually it should be tied to the median of the area they represent. We place a giant bug in Washington DC and track and monitor all of the movement of them and their staff. This not only includes Congress, but also includes all branches of the executive. Obviously there are some things in government that are sensitive and hidden like defense, but we open that up as well.
I'm sick of our corrupt government, and apparently it's getting worse for the past 30 years. I mean the fact that still 80% of the voters vote either R or D makes me agree with Jas Jain assesment of Americans... we are a bunch of idiots, myself included, but not anymore. We don't even have decent options. Can't I vote for a fellow engineer, or a fellow teacher or a fellow who would be like someone I live next door?
It's obvious the slimy lawyers we have in all branches and areas of government and corporate VPs or whomever are nothing like the people they represent. Oh wait, I mean they all represent people like them which is something like 10% of the true America... seriously I can't vote for a farmer... I can't vote for a official clerk or something? I can't vote for Tanta or CR? Seriously?
This democracy really sucks and the sooner we realize we can do better and throw the bums out the better... but as it is we just pretend like 50% of the people are our "enemies" and even though we agree on 75% of stuff we let the other 25% get in the way...
Sorry but I'm sick of politics because nothing is going to change!
I'm with Liz.
Silence, exile, cunning and cheer.
Guess I just blew the silence part...
Only three questions.
Who are his handlers?
How do they get paid?
How like the Clintons is his net worth going to go from 2 mil to 60 mil after he has been fired/retired?
Nice words. Good inflections. My money is growing wings to FLY.
CAP I TAL flight.
Ross,
You are so acustomed to Bush that you think O needs handlers. He handles himself quite well and I believe he is in charge.
I'm sorry but I think right now the blogosphere and the people are ready to be the "check"... we need to demand that we get to be the "check". We process all sorts of useless information, but people are now starting to get it with processing the crap coming out of Congress... we need to make sure they can't hide. Too bad we can't somehow get into the Executive, but we need to get Congress back to be the check... maybe once the people get Congress back we can check the Executive... oh boy a real democracy!
No FA gridlock is inertia - if I wanted action I'd propose we have a parliamentary form of gov't with a VERY weak constitution - tyranny of the majority.
I'm perfectly happy with change happening slowly - slower the better. I wish somebody had thrown the brake during early part of Bush - but we weren't 'divided' enough. If O get's elected I hope like hell they challenge him as hard as Bush SHOULD have been challenged. Same with McM.
interview with Nassim Nicholas Taleb, 3 rd pg is on Fannie Mae
Interview With Nassim Nicholas Taleb - The World According To - Portfolio.com
"we are in serious trouble as a nation"
Even my dog knows that but neither one of these two clowns which ever one gets elected are going to stop what is coming to a bankrupt empire.
How like the Clintons is his net worth going to go from 2 mil to 60 mil after he has been fired/retired?
If they didn't you'd worry about them - its almost impossible to not rake it in once outside the beltway after having had the keys to the city.
You know what this reminds me of?
Sorry, Pal, You're Rich:
Dan Gross: Is $250,000 a Middle-Class Salary? | Newsweek Voices - Daniel Gross | Newsweek.com
I sense O is different. We all go into the voting booth and pull the lever but are we sure we know if it's the right decision. Give the guy a chance. He sure seems to want it.
I turned on the TV for the first time in... a year may be. The speech was brilliant, but mostly I just had a very surprising feeling a complete unison with Obama. Something I have probably never felt listening to a political speech.
The US should be proud, and I am sure is the envy of a lot of people in Europe and elsewhere.
I would also have loved seeing a women president, but I know that a black man becoming president will mean the world to the black community and that is heart warming... and that is not too early either.
In this election, in every election, you get two choices: do you want to want to be abused with a plastic broom handle or a wooden one?
All I request is one little tick box next to every name on the ballot that says "no confidence."
But, I will never see it.
Formerly Apolitical writes:
I sense O is different. We all go into the voting booth and pull the lever but are we sure we know if it's the right decision. Give the guy a chance. He sure seems to want it.
Formerly Apolitical | 08.29.08 - 12:18 am | #
Straight from spin team central... sorry but that smells an awful lot like astroturf to me.
We got ourselves a real mess don't we? But you know it's not O's fault. He's sticking his neck out and saying I believe I can help. Waht are you folks doing? Phil Gramm may be right.
"Phil Gramm may be right."
Phil Gramm is the wood broom handle. The one with the splinters.
FA,
A real agent of change would be someone like Ron Paul or Ralph Nader or someone that doesn't belong to either party... wouldn't that be something?
Why are you buying into the hype that it's important to have either a Dope or a Rapist?
Hey dryfly, find a cave. I appreciate your perspective on the manufacturing climate in a practical sense but boy you have lost faith have'nt you?
Ahh. since this thread has hit political points, weather, and silly puns I dont feel too bad nattering on a bit in an off-topic direction.
I started school this term at the community college. Tonight was the first class for my Real Estate Law class (going for a paralegal degree).
My instructor has been a paralegal specializing in tax law then decide to become a lawyer and did securities law, then decided to become a financial advisor and worked for a brokerage for 15 years, now teaching. hehehehe. This is going to be fun.
During the obligatory intro-fest most classmates mentioned family law, and criminal law and very very noble quests to serve low-income people. My turn came. Calmly explained that the drama and angst of family law left me with migraines, and as noble as free work sounded I was to mercenary and wanted to make sure I can support myself and son into future, so looking for something to dovetail with the soon-to-be son of RTC or the legal takedowns of the IB's and brokerages like the BK of jefferson county etc.
Smiled real large, real big, real sharklike at my new teach.
This class is great! hahahahaha
"Give the guy a chance. He sure seems to want it."
Formerly Apolitical when you vote, go ahead and vote for him just quit trying to justify why you are doing so by telling everyone on this board about why we should. I don't really think other then which group of the rich get the most benefit from this election it make a damn bit of difference which one wins.
Since Seb and O-Joe aren't here I thought I stir up the natives a bit. Got you all going. So what? Nothing but griping here and a lot of I told you so's. Thats RP and Nader's game. Never get those guys elected. Hey lets just tear the system down or watch it self destruct while eating popcorn. Do you ever realize how sick you all are?
"Do you ever realize how sick you all are?"
Every goddamned day. But, the money is good.
Formerly Apolitical writes:
Hey dryfly, find a cave. I appreciate your perspective on the manufacturing climate in a practical sense but boy you have lost faith have'nt you?
Formerly Apolitical | 08.29.08 - 12:25 am | #
Faith? I've never had faith in EITHER party. It has nothing to do with faith.
Jimmy Carter was the most decent guy to become president in my lifetime - and he was one of the worst presidents ever. I never thought I'd ever see anyone as bad but Bush seems to have topped that.
Personally I'd settle for competence & checks-n-balances... that is a system that will generate good policy more often than 'faith' & 'persona'.
That is where I'd put my trust.
Do you ever realize how sick you all are?
Sure I'm REALity sick.
DrChaos
thanks for the Nassim Taleb interview link
"In this election, in every election, you get two choices: do you want to want to be abused with a plastic broom handle or a wooden one?"
personally I welcome an election where rather than my own personal interest I get a chance to focus what will make the biggest difference for so many people.
... and anyway, if you do not want to help build the schools you will have to help build the jails instead
"Personally I'd settle for competence..."
Now, that would be a first. What an absolutely earth-shattering idea.
Bunch of incorrigibles. OK be that way. Don't matter a hill of beans cause I'm not trying to convert anybody.
Anonymous writes:
neither one of these two clowns which ever one gets elected are going to stop what is coming to a bankrupt empire.
you dont know that they are clowns
you dont know that whichever gets elected wont make a difference
quite frankly either one would have made a big improvement over the past 8 years of gangsterism
"The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost invariably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And if he is not romantic personally, he is apt to spread discontent among those who are."
Henry Louis Mencken (1880 - 1956)
You know mp - you said you wish you had a check box for 'no confidence' [I agree - or 'none of the above' then require a majority to win else run off]...
I wish we had a 'divided gov't' check box... don't even care which party has what... just make sure they AREN'T of the same party. Not sure how to operationalize that except for a coin toss... but there are worse ways to pick gov'ts that a coin toss.
Well, dryfly, "no confidence" boxes will never be seen on an American ballot, nor will your "divided government" scheme.
The people of this country don't make the choices anymore, the choices are made for them.
Folks get to choose "only one of the above."
For me, it comes down to who does the least amount of damage in four years.
And, either, or , statements are just theatrical.
Long Obama. Short barely and jg. Have decided that this "ross" is an insufferable douchebag. Never thought I'd find a CR commenter that made me nostalgiac for sloowww motion.
Bu the way, I would bet MY LIFE that Tanta and CR will vote for Obama. McCain is a sad, sad joke at this point. No answers, no solutions, only a desire to win. And for what?
Formerly Apolitical writes:
Bunch of incorrigibles. OK be that way. Don't matter a hill of beans cause I'm not trying to convert anybody.
Formerly Apolitical | 08.29.08 - 12:38 am | #
Actually I'm not trying to unconvert you either - I feel nothing for McM and I'm generally more angry at the GOP after Bush than I am toward the Dems though that could always change.
I just don't get all jiggy over candidates anymore - of either party. A week from now we'll get the McCain bandwagon rolling through - I'll be as unexcited about them as I am about Team O.
Coin toss? I think with what's on tap the loser should be forced to take the Executive Office.
Hey Dryfly, find a cave.
You've found the light? Bully for you.
But as we watched the show, I agreed with a fair amount of what he said, and my wife could only ask "where's the money going to come from?" And she's right.
And as for being "one of us", the large majority of "us" don't have some piddlin' little $1M or $2.
I might easily vote for the guy. But knock off the asshat remarks.
Paul or Nader would do the least amount of damage... so... I don't know what some people here are talking about. How can someone run the government when they have zero allies from either party in Congress? Talk about gridlock...
dryfly mp
let me encourage you to run for elected public office.
its a great experience
you would see, i predict that politician largely represent the cross section of humanity, good, band, somewhat honest, and some, somewhat crooked etc.
but most of all you would see how hard it is to walk the line as interest groups and individuals come at you constantly from all directions demanding their will be done.
the country needs citizens to step forward, and its a daunting challenge.
Personally I'd settle for competence & checks-n-balances... that is a system that will generate good policy more often than 'faith' & 'persona'.
In this case (O) my "perception" is that "persona" itself is the "product" of competence.
Nobody is ever prepared to be president (Clinton -the first- citation).
I have always prefered hiring people with the ability to adapt fast, rather than experience. I sense Obama "has got it", it is not faith, I would rather call it "intuition".
Mock turtle, noble sentiments, but I have neither the inclination, nor the ability to build consensus. I am the head wolf in a small wolf pack and do not play well with others.
Having said that, I could see myself as Secretary of Transportation in your administration.
I would, after applying a massive level of voltage to the genitalia of key players, have the trains running on time in very short order.
But as we watched the show, I agreed with a fair amount of what he said, and my wife could only ask "where's the money going to come from?" And she's right.
No she's wrong - you can always print the money so getting the money isn't the challenge... ask where are the RESOURCES going to come from to sustain that vision. Activities require resources... we just 'price' them in dollars.
If we are productive enough we'll have the resources in abundance to do all that and more so ask how are his policies going to promote a system that produces resources & utilizes them efficiently to be self sustaining WITHOUT taking too many resources from other 'worthwhile activities' we value?
My guess is he didn't answer that. No one is asking let alone answering that.
mp
you sound like a natural
your prescription for more juice to the private sector is admirable
dryfly- "My guess is he didn't answer that."
No, he didn't, and I read the speech.
let me encourage you to run for elected public office.
I would never do it. You have to know your strengths & that isn't one of mine.
dryfly
id like to sign on to your last point...resources, yeah
and you know that was part of the cynical plan of the previous administration
the huge budget deficits are NOT an accident
the idea was to disable the federal gov by bankrupting it and give large corporations the upper hand
i bet obama doesnt know where or if he will find the resources
point well taken
as dirty harry said, "a man has got to know his limitations"
non the less its clear from your posts that you have the knowledge and other skills in the set.
like i explained to my wife not too long ago, when i turned down a promotion i knew i could not handle
a table cant stand on three legs...i had several good skills, and one significant deficit and had to face up to my limits
dryfly,
I actually think that Carter was one of the best presidents but least appreciated.
His vision and approach to solving U.S. energy dependence on the ME was right on the mark though clearly early.
I also really liked his approach and success in getting Arabs and Israelis to the negotiation table.
He was fiscally quite conservative and can't realistically be blamed for the high inflation of the period as it was caused primarily by the after effects of the Vietnam war spending and resulting money supply expansion.
Oh yes, he also appointed Volker for which he should also get 5 stars.
We haven't seen much of this quality from anybody since.
I might easily vote for the guy. But knock off the asshat remarks.
homedad43 | Homepage | 08.29.08 - 12:48 am | #
I might vote for him too - depends on how much McCain pisses me off... I am currently WAY more angry at GOP than Dems (because of the neocons)... but like I said - that could change.
::::
I sense Obama "has got it", it is not faith, I would rather call it "intuition".
Genevieve | 08.29.08 - 12:55 am | #
His choice of Biden suggested to me he doesn't have it. Biden is the guy who jammed BK reform through - the only two guys on the Dem side MORE beholden to big money / big bank interests would have been Dodd &/or Schumer.
My instincts tell me that was a very bad choice...
Unfortunately the economic advisors he has around him will answer the question of where the money will come from by starting off with "first assume untapped and presently untaxed resources and productivity..."
I actually think that Carter was one of the best presidents but least appreciated.
GOP is trying to spin Bush the same way. Nice try - bad luck.
Vision doesn't feed the dog - execution does. Carter didn't execute on his vision, didn't adapt well to bad cards that were dealt him - his presidency was a complete failure. Bush's will be looked at similarly.
There have been others who were dealt a bad hand & still played the cards pretty well - Truman comes to mind. Neither Bush nor Carter played their hands half as well as Truman & his cards were about as bad as they get.
St. Louis Fed: Series: FYGFD, Gross Federal Debt
Yesterday,
All my troubles seemed so far away,
Now it looks as though they're here to stay,
Oh, I believe in yesterday.
Suddenly,
I'm not half the man I used to be,
There's a shadow hanging over me,
Oh, yesterday came suddenly.
Why she
Had to go I don't know, she wouldn't say.
Just got to listen to Gore. (re run on PBS).
Being another cynic on a venue for cynics, I was struck Gore's comments.
Specially that the status quo is resistant to change.
Wonder how far the status quo will to prevent change, will it before the election or after the election.
dryfly,
I disagree. Carter refreshingly little about spin with much more action.
I won't even put Bush and Carter in the same league. One started an unprovoked war with huge consequences down the line and the other avoided a war that most U.S. presidents would gladly have entered.
In retrospect very smart though conventional thought at the time was quite different.
Wife and I were talking during/after the speech.
"fascist" is a word that's been bandied around a great deal and I really haven't given it much credence.
But in the past year, I've reconsidered given the government/IB/Big Business ties.
The whole TFCH thing is beginning to appeal to me.
And then BO turns around in the speech and talks about supporting the Auto Industry as they retool for more fuel efficient, alt energy vehicles. More of the same or just trying to support large employee businesses?
We'll see when the loans come with significant reins on exec pay/perks/bonuses. Or not.
dryfly | 08.29.08 - 1:16 am | #
There have been others who were dealt a bad hand & still played the cards pretty well
Drfly,
Whoever wins the presidency is going to have one of the worst hands of all times.
If its Obama, its going be all that and plus some.
DryFly,
I humbly disagree about Harry the habadisher. He talked tough but was a real marshmellow.
From '45 to '48, we had the most powerful persuader on the planet. Nukes.
Why was Russia allowed eastern Europe and the beginning of the cold war.
If 'give em hell Harry' was given a royal flush, he flushed his chance to disarm the world.
Three years to disarm the world and what did we get? Soviet Nukes and Korea.
dryfly, I think you're thinking of a Cheney Vice Presidency. Biden is a "made man" pol, but a good center choice (maybe to reassure the moneybags,) but he's not the one who would be signing the Bills or setting the agenda.
It might also be borne in mind that there will be a clean sweep of the Departments with the new broom (should O be elected.)
Otherwise, it's four more years of the same incompetence.
carters presidency, like bush 2 failed but for entirely different reasons i would suggest
carter got wacked by his own party... he was not supposed to win the nomination and one wing of the party held a grudge, he could not get his agenda thru congress.
bush on the other hand went 7 years without exercising a veto and got much of what he wanted of any significance except privatizing social security.
Carter was and is a pretty decent guy wrong sometimes but a mensch
bush on the other hand unashamedly demonstrates believes he is above the law and has the right to use government contracts to enrich his friends
Wonder how far the status quo will to prevent change, will it before the election or after the election.
Inertia is our friend - every one says they want 'change' - they all have their idea of what desirable change is... the reason things rarely change much is that we each have a personal vision of utopia... but the second best alternative is status quo...
But my idea of utopia is your idea of hell and vise versa... so we all fall back to our 'second choice' which is status quo. Nothing changes.
Its only when status quo falls so far down the list of desirable outcomes for many of us that other options besides our idea of utopia [compromises] become 'actionably viable'. It takes time for people's heads to get there... that's classic 'change agent' boiler plate but still makes sense.
What is the old saying... "Don't let the pursuit of perfection delay adoption of the pretty good"... something like that.
Wow. I'm still surprised people think this system works or is the best or is even worth letting continue.
The one thing lacking in all of the candidates that I can remember is character. I don't want a spin-meister president, I want one that is honest. I don't appreciate someone who is tied in politically trying to pretend like he is not tied in politically (although its very true that Obama is quite green in DC, so was Bush). I don't like someone who has been a part of the problem for the past 26 years to all of a sudden pretend like he is going to become the solution.
I don't like rich pretending to be poor or like poor people, or even middle class people. The way our political system is run it is based on rock-star and driven by charisma. The whole tit-for-tat that the political class and hard-core politicos do is aboslutly horrible.
I really do think people with political aspirations are evil and don't care for the public good...
"Its only when status quo falls so far down the list of desirable outcomes for many of us that other options besides our idea of utopia [compromises] become 'actionably viable'."
Which is another way of saying:
Wait until the sh&t hits the fan.
It might also be borne in mind that there will be a clean sweep of the Departments with the new broom (should O be elected.)
There will be a sweep no matter who gets in. McM has no love for Team Bush after South Carolina 2000.
Ideologically though GWB & McM are more alike than McM & O - but are any of these folks that different - that was my point about Biden... he is more GOP-like than many GOPers. Why him if O is such the change agent?
I've only heard one rationalization for Biden - he's an attack dog. It lets the Dems bite hard without blood getting on O.
I am wondering who McM will pick - GOP has more surrogates wiling to bite but usually the VP is lead attack dog (see Cheney). Some are saying McM's VP will be Pawlenty from Minnie... if so his attack dog will be a poodle.
Which is another way of saying:
Wait until the sh&t hits the fan.
mp | 08.29.08 - 1:39 am | #
Exactly.
mp said:
Which is another way of saying:
Wait until the sh&t hits the fan.
Isn't that the way we Americans have always been?
"Isn't that the way we Americans have always been?"
Yup, and unfortunately. A lot of wasted time and money, then more of both to catch up.
Thanks for that cartoon, CR. The best thing about it is that it's from 2003. And everybody was still denying their was a bubble in '05/'06/'07.
In fact, speaking of Obama, he- and every other Democrat- is still denying their is a bubble TODAY.
Obama has a lot of appeal. But he lost me for good when he started saying a few months back that "the government needs to put a floor under home prices".
Obviously, he is completely, utterly, out of touch with this problem of overpriced housing bleeding Americans to death. (Despite all the foreclosures! He still doesn't get it!)
You'll notice that he mentioned falling home prices as an "economic problem" again in his speech tonight.
He's an inflationist, pure and simple.
I have no desire to spend the next several years watching more and more people get thrown under the bridge (literally, homeless) by these inflationist lunatics, just so a few people at the top can pretend everything's okay.
Obama and his wife Michelle are a handsome, well-spoken couple who would present a great "face" to the world for the US.
But they'd be the death of this country as we know it. By the time Obama's through with us, half the populace will be on the government dole, barely squeaking by on their paltry monthly allotments. All because of out of control inflation meant to save those nutcases who spent too much and gambled on reckless bets.
That's my gut reaction, so I can't vote for him. The prospect is too scary.
From '45 to '48, we had the most powerful persuader on the planet. Nukes.
Why was Russia allowed eastern Europe and the beginning of the cold war.
If 'give em hell Harry' was given a royal flush, he flushed his chance to disarm the world.
Three years to disarm the world and what did we get? Soviet Nukes and Korea.
Ross | 08.29.08 - 1:25 am | #
My father had spent the whole war in the military... so did his brothers & BILs... all of them from 40 & 41 through to 46... one more war & they'd been in rebellion. My father & his buddies have told me as much... they were done, time to go home. Finis.
If we wanted to push Stalin out we'd have had to used the bomb, probably over and over and over. Anyone willing to see 20 million of his own people die in WWII wouldn't mind 10 or 20 or 30 million more.
Plus if you know anything about Manhattan (I do) you know we didn't have the productive capacity to produce a lot of bombs until early 50s... so HT was looking at the Red Army staring at our troops... with an ocean in between the US & our army. No viable allies in Europe (destroyed infrastructure)... and it would have been mostly a conventional war anyway.
And he's going to push Stalin out of Eastern Europe? That would have destroyed the Republic. Using nukes would have destroyed the Republic in the worlds's eyes as well. There was no win for us in any of that.
The smartest thing to have done was what he did - wait them out based on the conviction we have a superior system and will win in the end based on ideas not only on force. Meanwhile hold them at bay w/ MAD and hope like hell it works. It did.
I wish Bush had that kind of courage facing Islamic Militants... we'd be a lot better off today if he did.
JMHO.
YLSP
i know personally some really fine people who are politicians, and i know some of the worst s.o.b.s
the closer a politician is to the local level, usually the better.
we could do 3 things to improve the system right away.
financing...individual donations from people who live within the boundaries of the office...no out of state or out of jurisdiction contributions...limit 1000 dollars even to fund yourself!!!
no corporate, no union, no organizational, nor foreign countries contributions period...only citizens can fund campaigns
return the number of representatives in the house to one rep for every 20,000 citizens...so that a person could run for office on a shoe string...now each rep in congress represents more than half a million and needs big money to run.
I'd be willing to bet McCain picks Romney as he's a strong contrast to McCain. He's younger, from the Northeast, plus his Bain connections.
Eliminating all corporate tax breaks without reducing the corporate tax rate?
Oh boy.
Carter was the worst - he allowed the acsendancy of Iran. Hope you like nukes for breakfast.
FT Woods writes:
I'd be willing to bet McCain picks Romney as he's a strong contrast to McCain. He's younger, from the Northeast, plus his Bain connections.
FT Woods | 08.29.08 - 2:04 am | #
The rumors around here (Minnesota) is that Pawlenty is canceling prior appointments - like he has something else important that has 'just popped up'.
Could be rumors or a red herring to get media attention from O but that is what my wife heard to today at work - some of her bosses have connections in the state GOP - who knows.
o one writes:
Carter was the worst - he allowed the acsendancy of Iran. Hope you like nukes for breakfast.
no one | 08.29.08 - 2:07 am |
carter was only prez for four years
he didnt allow anything of the kind
the forces that overthrew the shaw pavlovi of iran were a quarter century in the making
in the early 50s the us and britain overthrew their elected government because we wanted control of their oil.
the dictator we installed was in several ways like saddam, although not the same...he was brutal, but he was our dictator and puppet.
this fueled mounting fundamentalism, and anger against the us and the shaw
when you blame carter for iran you indicate a lack of depth to your understanding.
ps no one
im sure you will agree only two counties should have nukes, the us and israel right?
oh yes and we recently signed a deal with the saudis to give them nuke tech but hey we gotta support popular democracies in the region right!
dryfly writes:
"His choice of Biden suggested to me he doesn't have it. Biden is the guy who jammed BK reform through "
yes, I was asking about that on another thread.
Clearly Biden was chosen for other priorities, like foreign policy expertise. Of course there too you will find people to dispute his level of expertise, as well as his track record (opposing the surge in Iraq).
But he chose Biden to "oppose" Mc Cain, and I don't think the financial crisis will be the issue (incredibly).
But it has to be "first: get elected"
= Anon. above
Is there a website DONOTVOTE08.com?
I mean both of those guys are real nice in their own ways and I have respect for them. However being nice is not enough for me. I just don't think they represent me.
I would love to see someone telling people his/her mind and trying to figure out practical solutions instead of just telling people what they want to hear.
So, is there such website?
P.S. It has to contain little to NULL conspiracy theories, please.
YouTube - Hemp For Victory
Character is the worst way to pick a politician. It only guarantees you've picked someone slick enough to get you to buy his lies. I'm voting for Obama because I think the future is going downward no matter who gets the job so we might as well make history. So what if he f's up? Like we haven't survived the last eight years. Voters thought that voting GOP would be better for the country and where has that gotten us? Exactly how much worse would either Kerry or Gore have been? I would have voted for McCain in 2000 (I voted for Bush's daddy), but nooooo, we got the idiot.
Cynical? The only way we'll have a positive change is through forced emigration. I look at the American people and I'm forced to agree with JJ.
ice thread.
truman: horrible, unpopular for a reason. handed europe to stalin, china to mao, and the middle east to wackos for decades. ironically, he made the most insightful comment about WW2 to come out of the US at the time, june 23 '41, look it up
carter: unfairly handed lbj and nixon's inflation. still, evangelics are mental midgets by definition, as he has since proven
the current race: we're screwed by demographics. the real nail in the coffin was the delay/AARP donut bill. it really doesn't matter who we elect - we're screwed until the median baby boomer dies, though RE and equities should look into this event a bit before it happens. britain in the 30s, usa in the 70s, japan in the 90s in a blender.
Hated Nixon personally, but he did three things that redeem his presidency in my eyes: lowered the voting age to eighteen so at least soldiers could vote, got out of Vietnam, and recognized Red China. Sad to say, I don't think many others could have done it.
I think the largest fault in any Economic policy is inability of people that propose it to admit to themselves: "I don't know".
It is often the case that the policy has unexpected consequences. That's why the self-regulating market is often does much better job.
Can't we just have a council of elders that have been thoroughly vetted from youth, who have exhibited no interest in professional politics, and are old enough to have a more objective view of society and what's good for it? Blend this together with our "individual rights or death" mentality somehow, and we might have a winner.
ixon also played both sides in '68 to keep the war going, illegally bombed hundreds of thousands and set the stage for the khmer rouge, helped legitimize mao, looked the other way as hank k created multiple miniature dirty wars for personal profit, spent until the abandonment of BW was inevitable (setting up the various inflationary bubbles of the past 40 years and our transformation from the world's creditor to world's debtor) and, perhaps worst of all, poisoned american politics for decades with his southern strategy, a strategy whose fullest flowering was the gop control of all 3 branches recently.
billy, that's a nice summation of leo strauss' ideas, a warped version of which gave us PNAC and our recent overseas adventures
"he only way we'll have a positive change is through forced emigration. I look at the American people and I'm forced to agree with JJ."
Is it a sarcasm? Have you look at other people? All people are the same, have a huge potential of screwing up
There is only one way to limit that destructive potential - individual thinking, and people in the US think for themselves ether more or at least on the same level as other countries.
(Usually more
Does anyone care that the next president will probably have a couple of supremes to appoint? McCain said just the other day that he would appoint people like Scalia and Thomas. Bye-bye woman's right to choose.
I should stop 10pm exercise,
1) good night all.
2) we will be all right.
bgates | 08.29.08 - 2:56 am | #
Good points, now I remember why I hated him.
What they forgot to show in Denver
YouTube -
I'm a plagiarist and a liar. Even Dukakis got the better of me back in '87. This time around, it's white on white crime. I might not be a war hero, but my son is, and I'll wave his bloody red shirt. McCain has no chance. I just hope nobody does a background check on me. BRB...I need to go make-out with my grand daughter.
"Nixon got us out of Vietnam" Is that a sick joke?
The antiwar movement got us out of Vietnam, and we need a new one.
Ironic that on CNN the main sponsors for the Democratic convention were Sharp and Hyundai.
Formerly Apolitical,
No chance I'll vote for OB, my man. I'm actually making more than I ever have in my life, and I remain in favor of the war.
Right on, Yogi.
Meanwhile, from Marketwatch:
U.S. personal income, spending fall in July
By Greg Robb
Last update: 8:30 a.m. EDT Aug. 29, 2008
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - Real consumer spending fell 0.4% in July, the Commerce Department reported Thursday. This is the biggest drop since June 2004. Nominal spending rose 0.2%. Personal income fell 0.7% in July, the biggest drop since August 2005. Real disposable incomes fell 1.7% in July. This is the second straight large monthly drop in the wake of the government stimulus payments. Inflation surged in the month. The core personal consumption expenditure price index rose 0.3% in July compared with June and is up 2.4% in the past year. This is the largest gain since September 2006. Wall Street economists had expected a 0.4% decline in incomes, a 0.2% gain in nominal spending and a 0.3% rise in the core PCE.
sdtfs,
re Nixon..getting us out of Vietnam...sorry, but you are totally incorrect. Nixon, under Kissinger's guidance, widened the war with the invasion of Cambodia, hugely escalating both American and civilian casualties in two countries. The NVA finally overran the US forces, culminating in our abandonment of Saigon, and the "incursion" into Cambodia empowered the Khmer Rouge, turning that sorry country into a genocidal slaugherhouse.
At the same time, Nixon approved the overthrow of the government in Chile,and the assasination of it's leadership, installing the murderous Pinochet regime.
The Intrade gaming site shows that the current favorite for Republican Vice-Presidential nomination is Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, at 80 (last trade).
Hey about we abolish the 'party' system?
No republicrats, no demopublicans, no liberals.
Just Americans trying to serve America?
Fucking crazy....I know. Might have to put this class warfare shit on hold for a while....
But it just might work.
Morning Joe said Sarah Palin isn't the one.
Reading the site this AM...
Will have to beware of astroturf sales(wo)men.
If McCain wanted to shore up his southern support, he would be wise to pick Huckabee.
but please don't, I can't wait for this war to end.
Speaking as "Exit", I'm not in favor or "no exit".
Remember when this meme was played in previous elections? "Are you better off today than (x) years ago?" Well, are we?
BG is personally better off so will vote status quo. YSLP is a tin-foil hatter about politicians (we go the same haberdasher), Formerly Apolitical is astroturfing as Dryfly points out.
But if the focus returns to that question, which of the two candidates is more likely to continue mining the vein of the present administration?
"Change", like "Leadership", is a red herring. Institutionally the systems are too huge to either change or lead effectively. Mostly it's PR, and then left to the judiciary to decide whether local rules and laws pass muster.
And that leads to the question of the judiciary. If McCain is elected, Roe V Wade goes down, but that won't prevent abortions, just make them more dangerous. It will likely ensure, however, that meaningful prosecution of the types of financial wizardry that was / is the hallmark of the Bush administration's laissez-faire regulatory attitude, will go unpunished. And if for that reason alone, unless McCain can unlink from the far right, is reason enough to vote for his opponent.
Exit I am not that cynical. Change always happens and I just want the least bad of the available options.
looking at Obama's speech and the others who went before him, I have hope.
there was one guy, a normal guy, who said, we need somebody who puts Barney Smith before Smith Barney. there were many former republicans on the stage who told their story of voting republican all their life and now can't vote republican. during the primaries in some states twice as many people voted in the democratic primaries. in some states it was as many as five times. i think republicans are headed to a major ass whipping and it couldn't happen to better bunch of pigs.
truman: horrible, unpopular for a reason. handed europe to stalin, china to mao, and the middle east to wackos for decades.
Again HUGE misread of history - he did not HAND OVER E Europe to Stalin & China to Mao - he was unwilling to spend another 50-100 million lives to recapture what was already taken & 'lost'. Instead wait them out - in my book that makes him a hero.
We need more like that not more neocon BS...
As for the middle east claim - some reality there but again... many of those states evolved on their own (like Iraq & Syria)... not much we could do unless we wanted to start the 'surge' 4 or 5 decades sooner.
People learn nothing from history so relive and relive and relive.
And that leads to the question of the judiciary. If McCain is elected, Roe V Wade goes down, but that won't prevent abortions, just make them more dangerous. It will likely ensure, however, that meaningful prosecution of the types of financial wizardry that was / is the hallmark of the Bush administration's laissez-faire regulatory attitude, will go unpunished. And if for that reason alone, unless McCain can unlink from the far right, is reason enough to vote for his opponent.
Exit | 08.29.08 - 9:36 am | #
You summed up why I am more than likely to vote for O - my sis & I covered that topic probably 3-4 months ago exactly with that same result. One of the reasons I didn't listen to his speech - it didn't matter - I wasn't going to vote for him for him but against the 'right' if I vote at all. Sad commentary I know but that is the way it is in my head.
If McCain repudiates the right completely evidenced by VP selection & rhetoric at convention I might reconsider - won't happen - he's bought & paid for too.
Wasn't it Arthur C. Clarke who quipped that wanting high office should be a disqualification for getting it?