I've actually had family members just in the past week ask me if they should take their money out of the bank, and where they should put it.
These are people who mocked my concerns just a couple years back.
The irony now is they're probably more concerned than I am.
I keep telling them just make sure you're covered by FDIC or in short-term treasuries -- you're almost guaranteed not to lose money that way since the government can just print it.
Whether that money will actually be worth anything or not when you get it is an entirely different matter of course.
It seems like the fear is spreading despite all the good work of our fine political and financial leaders.
Every time I go to Citibank and wait in line 10 minutes for a teller, I think of the days with WaMu when I used to have to wait at most two minutes.....
Kathleen sounds like some mistress of Schumer and she needs to learn to keep her yapper shut tight, all we need is more truth and honesty and all that stuff that interferes with greasy hair'd obfuscation and false and misleading manipulated collusion, fraud and dishonesty from the team in currently in place to abuse power.
Not that there are any current bank runs, or that there ever would be any...but say, theoretically, in a weird foreign country (that is not here or FDIC-insured)...should I be concerned if there were runs on multiple banks during the same year?
Has that kind of thing ever happened before? Was it a portend of bad things to come, economically, and geopolitically speaking?
WaMu won't be taken over by FDIC. They'll be shotgun married like CFC.
Who to?
My guess is Wells Fargo.
how much will wamu and downey each cost
Downey has just under $10 billion in deposits and I would guess around $1 billion is over FDIC limits. Theur portfolio is worse than IndyMac (Believe it or not) and will likely lose about 1/3rd of it. My wild guess is $6 billion for Downey.
WaMu is much bigger than Downey. I don't have their numbers, but it would be much more expensive. I doubt WaMu will go to FDIC. It will more likely go to another bank and the gov't will backstop some losses ala Bear Sterns.
Dr Evil writes:
You'd be stupid not to pull funds as an unsecured. If I had any money there it would be out by the end of the day.
Dr Evil | 07.24.08 - 2:56 pm | #
Flag this guy and open a file. Catalog as Red List.
``We won't use the phrase `run on the bank,' but we would be remiss if we did not observe that many creditors have quietly been pulling funds,'' wrote Shanley
Conjure asks, "How about SILENT RUN? Is it politically correct to use SILENT RUN?"
I been thinking about this for the last few days, and it's appropriate for this topic thread. As a financially responsible person, I'm going to get screwed by the government bailout of the banks. As I thought about, it I have come to the conclusion that I have two choices:
I get screwed.
I get screwed, and "they" get screwed.
We (it will take many others) can implement choice #2 by going to our bank, taking out all our money in cash, and putting it in a safe deposit box, or in a safe at home.
If enough people were to do this, I believe the gov/fed/ceo crooks would get the message that we are tired of being screwed. However, this is pretty much the "suicide" approach...
The share price action tells all.....seems to have found "some" support in the 3.70 level....don't know if that really means a thing but It has stabilized...for the present.
well you can give those about a twenty percent haircut just off the top of my head...at least what they call "assets"...may even be the deposits by the end of the day
MS, what makes you think WM will last into next week? The funds are being pulled as we speak, and the news is hitting the internet and the business news websites right now, which means it's only going to get worse. It could all be over rather quickly.
Bank Jog? Dog Trot? Maybe just a really really really fast walk? Well, it's clear that somebodys dancing. Sign me up for the waterblogging - I'd be hurt if I wasn't on the list of the dirty informationers.
Do you have a photo Id with that comment young man? Would you like to go to prison for using free speech and saying shit that could be called the truth?
Big damn deal Hanky Panky will hit the print button and presto canngeo money will come spilling out on the floor. The only problem is it isn't going to be worth the paper it's printed on but that is where this is headed and you better get ready.
Fat greasy bastard, yes that describes FDIC and all those that might suggest that they work there, along with all the fine people at SEC, Treasury, DOJ, FTC, FBI, DOL, DOT, DOD, who am I missing?
For the same reason any other insolvent over-leveraged institution is allowed to continue on in spite of very serious headwinds. I've no idea but IMB stock went under a buck and it was allowed to "Stay open".....It's not even at it's LOD....you would need an additional 3.5% to get to that. It will make this week....but not next.
This one, will have much larger ramifications based on it "touching" quite a few more people.
The deposits alone is reason enough to prop it up....they've been doing it with the share price since this morning.
WAMU is HUGE, as many have posted. It's hard to say what it will cost the FDIC if it has to take over. Right now, very little - WAMU has positive cash. WAMU's problem is that it's going to lose a lot more, but nobody knows exactly how much. If the FDIC had to sell off its assets into the teeth of a panic, you might see losses like Indymac, 20-40% of deposits, which would be 40-80 billion. OTOH, in runoff, WAMU might break even and cost almost nothing - I guesstimated their future losses last year and it was almost exactly their current equity. So - the cost is an EXTREMELY wild guess.
If the FDIC really is watching, I'd like to go on record as saying that Sheila Blair is kinda sexy. She looks like the kind of girl I could tie dye t-shirts with or take camping. You know where to find me, Sheila.
People, people, come on! One bank failure every other week is tolerable. We can get through this if we keep our wits about us. Let's not go off the deep end now, please!
If WM goes belly up, who will pick up the pieces? Office of Credit something or other? Not the FDIC? I wonder who will get the blame this time. Schumer hasn't said anything about WM, has he? Too bad, if he had, he could be blamed,,,,again.
One proposal would permit buyout firms to use so-called silo funds walled off from their other investments to buy the stakes without subjecting the rest of their holdings to more federal oversight, said the people, who declined to be identified because the talks aren't public. Under another scenario, the Fed would allow private equity firms to exercise more control of banks they invest in. A third plan would encourage buyout firms to invest together.
Third plan sounds interesting, will it be an index i wonder?
Can I place my sandwich and drink order directly with Sheila for the Friday event ? Sheila, if you are reading this, I' ll have a Ruben on toasted rye,corned beef smothered in thousand island dressing , a pickle, and a root beer float, hold the fries I am on the diet and that hot sun is a killer. We are gonna have ourselves a Paaaaartyyyy !!!!!
Hey there it is. Blame Gimme Credit. Shut em down. Shut em up. Jail time. Telling the truth is forbidden in Bush's USA. We've known that since Iraq or before.
Ahhh... Citigroup. Another well run company and a perfect buying opportunity. I suspect that 1.2 trillion off balance sheet has done nothing but appreciate over the last year.
Is FDIC blaiming the "blogsphere" is this true I thought it is a joke but i hear it again and gain on the "blogsphere"...can't be true . show me some real MS web site with such nonsense
I think the new "administration" at Citi has made the off balance sheet stuff invisible. Thrown Harry Potter's invisibility cloak over it all. The "Harry Potter" move, we might say.
Sounds like this could cause the CDO house of cards to finally come down.
Perhaps Kunstler's prediction that Bush would be going out by means as unconventional as he came in, i.e. running away to his ranch in Paraguay a bit early while Pelosi stepped into the oval office, will be vindicated.
Yah, that's been one of my trading problems... underestimating the longevity of a move. Guess you could say that's a macro bubble thing, too; those always last much longer than you think they can.
WASHINGTON: The head of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission said Thursday that his agency should oversee investment banks under a new regulatory system aimed at averting another credit crisis.
But at a congressional hearing on how to modernize a regulatory structure that has not kept pace with drastic shifts in the financial system, a top U.S. Federal Reserve official emphasized that the central bank must directly supervise all companies that borrow from it.
Not sure. The FHLB's website indicates there is no Federal guarantee of their debt. In fact they file with the SEC so I assume it is publicly traded. In fact, banks pledge assets as collateral for FHLB loans.
When the FDIC liquidates the assets, they have to pay off the FHLB, which could serve to increase the losses to the FDIC. Check out this one-pager from the FRBSF:
I think I just heard the sound of heads exploding over at my regional office.
Doubt it for 2 reasons:
1: Too much geographic overlap. With the exception of WaMu's expansion into the NE, both banks work the same side of the street, so no value their.
2: Servicing Wamu's loan portfolio is gonna be a horror show, I don't know if they can scale up enough to make it worth their while in relation to #1.
Wells/SunTrust(whenever SunTrust goes terminal)? It'd make sense.
I guess this must be the PCP talking, but I almost think Citi/WaMu would make sense on the retail banking side, even though I don't think Citi has the strength necessary to succesfully pull it off.
Hair that develops a lank, flat, stringy or oily appearance is often referred to by hairdressers and hair consumers as "greasy" hair. This type of hair is hard to control, clumps together easily and does not hold a style well.
Where does greasy hair originate from?
I'm guessing it comes from several places, but I'm issuing a challenge to find the origin!!
If "it" really hits the fan, could the Fed lend directly to consumers? I know it sounds nuts now, but it appears as though the entire banking system has the ebola virus.
"WaMu won't be taken over by FDIC. They'll be shotgun married like CFC"
Why would you say that? I don't think so at all. The FDIC always turns the assets over to a stronger institution, with some juice to sweeten. And there's some footprint and size concern so WFC may actually not be in a position. It's worth speculating but perhaps there's some humpty-dumpty action that breaks WaMu up and scatters fragments to the identified survivors...
Normally, the shills-that-be like Bair blame the media whenever the "unexpected" happens, but since Kudlow, Cramer & Co. are fellow-traveling cheerleaders themselves, the only available target are the filthy bloggers. Which is a sign that people like Tanta and CR have more impact than the shills would want to admit.
"NevskyProspekt writes:
This could be it. WaMu could be going into the grave.
There's no way they can raise capital now."
There is alot of conjecture and rumors, but the above is a true statement. There's not a chance in hell that WaMu is able to raise the capital it needs now. Fate sealed.
What do you do with 45,000 employees and $300B of debt -- you can't fix that, and this is somewhat unlike Krispy Kream, in that a bank can take over Krispy and fire the donut machines backup -- but with 45,000 employees who are suppossed to be collecting cash and then keeping it safe, and having USA regulations allow it to go teats up is something new -- we aint been this far gone since:
The Wealth of Nations was published in 1776, during the Age of Enlightenment. It influenced not only authors and economists, but governments and organisations. For example, Alexander Hamilton was influenced in part by The Wealth of Nations to write his Report on Manufactures, in which he argued against many of Smith's policies. Interestingly, Hamilton based much of this report on the ideas of Jean-Baptiste Colbert, and it was, in part, to Colbert's ideas that Smith wished to respond with The Wealth of Nations. Many other authors were influenced by the book and used it as a starting point in their own work, including Jean-Baptiste Say, David Ricardo, Thomas Malthus and, later, Karl Marx and Ludwig von Mises. The Russian national poet Aleksandr Pushkin refers to The Wealth of Nations in his 1833 verse-novel Eugene Onegin.
Irrespective of historical influence, however, The Wealth of Nations represented a clear leap forward in the field of economics, similar to Sir Isaac Newton's Principia Mathematica for physics or Antoine Lavoisier's Traité Élémentaire de Chimie for chemistry. The Wealth of Nations is also important in a Scottish linguistic context on account of the fact the book is written in English and not in Scots Language, a somewhat rare occurrence for the time.
Smith addresses in The Wealth of Nations a problem that was torturing the best economic minds of his day. This problem was rooted in the means by which objects are valued. The two predominant theories of value in Smith's time were the so-called "Practical Theory of Value" and the labor theory of value, as delineated later by David Ricardo.
I always seem to get it wrong, but...if a WaMu seizure/shotgun marriage doesn't jump the shark to the national water cooler, I can't imagine what will. Another bailout so soon might stanch the dollars, but not the PR damage.
Did my own mini rn on the bnk last week with Wamu and moved said assets to TD Commerce. I checked yesterday on bankrate.com and found Commerce in the business of 5% down mortgages...guess there's no safe place to put your money.
What exactly is a "creditor" in this case? I thought a creditor was someone you borrowed money from, on specific terms, with specific due dates, etc. Are we talking "unsecured depositor"?
I used to get kicked off Yahoo (all the time) and they hated me during The Dotcom wra there and they really dis-liked the truth at Motley Fool. Truth is not what people want to hear and I have told the key is to tell people what they want to hear... so hard to do though.... I'm Honest Friggn Abe and a patriot!
"Anyway, the bank told him that since he has another family member listed as a beneficiary, he is covered up to 200k. Does this sound right?"
Sorry, but I'm having more than a little difficulty understanding the logic of this.
Why in the hell would any sane person want to accept the risk of it not being correct? OK, you might lose some interest, but Jesus, you want to run the risk of losing your principal too? All because some moron at WaMu, who has his/her own axe to grind, tells you a STORY!?
Where's the guarantee? Put it in writing! Is this some kind of school test? Do I get a grade or something?
I remember the name and then there was an issue with physical size of the certificate, i.e, you said it was very large, but as I said then, and will swear to now, I have never seen one in person...
One little note re the value of the dollar. I just came from taking a look at the restaurant menu of the Hotel Bristol in Paris. One can have a chicken for two for $330. This is just the chicken, mind you. Nothing else. No bread or butter, no veggies, no potatoes, no wine, nothing else. Just the chicken. I assume that is one very tasty chicken. LOL
I'm not sure I can keep going over the same ol ground:
And did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?
I bet most of the people on this board would freak if Sheila sent you an e-mail saying to cease and desist.
I'd switch my ISP to AOL and forward it to my very bestest clostestest friends; insisting they forward it to all their closestest friends or bad things would happen to them.
reddie Mac reports the average 30-yr mortgage rate bumped to 6.63% from 6.35% in the latest week, 15-yrs jumped to 6.18% from 5.92% and the 1-yr adjustables saw 5.49% from 5.17%. A year ago the 30s were 6.69%, 15s were 6.37% and the 1-yrs 5.69% (Reuters)
1:24 pm - Bidding : Bonds grabbed a bid on the solid large sized auction results, with the good demand, lower yield and improved participation of foreign central banks all helping. The 5-yr is leading slightly, while the curve is steepened, with the 2-10-yr yield spread running to 142.4 from 140.4 and the 5-30-yr to 123.4 from 120.7. The 10-yr is having a little trouble knocking out the 4.03% point, but if stocks start to crumble further, rather than indulging in the late session rallies they're so fond of, 4.02% should be tagged.
prior posts on this "WAMU is HUGE, as many have posted. It's hard to say what it will cost the FDIC if it has to take over."
WM has more than $300b in assets. the fdic cost estimate on an asset basis for IMB was 12.5% to 25%. WM would be in the same range so let's say $37.5b to $75b. of course losses can rise as the amount of assets grows. on teh low side, $4b from IMB and $37.b should WM go, would take about 80% of the $52.4b insurance fund.
I would love to get an email from Sheila. We will dye rainbow pinwheels while jamming to the Allman Brothers. Afterwards, we will go to a drum circle and eat some shrooms.
The one thing I have noticed is that the "accepted" amounts are starting to be a lot smaller than they used to. In the past you would see something like 70b "submitted" and say 19b "accepted". The amounts (both) are coming down as the banks know the Fed has a limit so they don't "submit" any more than what would skew the #'s.
Well let's see, WM goes down on Friday and by Tuesday Benny and the market manipulators will come in with a stick save. One of these days they are going to try that and the whole thing is going to come down like the stinking pile of crap that it is. Surprise me Benny.
These malicious rumors that Washington Mutual is having clients silently withdraw funds are absolutely untrue. Washington Mutual is well capitalized and as sound as the rock of Gibraltar. The Federal Reserve, as well as the FDIC, stand ready to absolutely back this institution. May I remind you that no customer has ever lost a cent in deposits at WAMU since it's inception.
God, I forgot about grease-guns, but nothing was mentioned about grease fires or grease removers (yet) however:
"The night seems tedious to my troubled soul, Whose black obscurity binds in my mind A thousand sundry cogitations: And now Aurora, with a lively dye, Adds comfort to my spirit that mounts on high-- Too high indeed, my state being so mean. My study, like a mineral of gold, Makes my heart proud, wherein my hopes enrolled; My books is all the wealth I do possess."
Just an anecdotal statement: my friend pulled his entire home equity credit line from WaMu yesterday. After the signed check was delivered, the manger of the branch said they could extend the credit line more.
The practical theory of value (also called the objective or intrinsic theory of value) held that an object's value was rooted in how useful it is to mankind. This had been the general consensus theory of value for many years, up to Smith's era. However, if this theory were true, why was it that diamonds (which have no practical use) command a much higher price than water (which is utterly crucial to man's existence)? This problem was known as "the diamond-water paradox", as it seemed to make no sense.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Smith does not solve the riddle in The Wealth of Nations, but he points it out as an important question remaining to be answered in the field of economics. He does attempt to give a solution by adopting the labor theory: he concludes that diamonds are worth more than water because of their rarity, and because great effort is required to mine and cut them. However, Smith admits that even this solution is unsatisfactory because it does not sufficiently describe why diamonds are worth more than, say, emeralds (which require even more labor to mine, and are considerably rarer), or why a large, easily mined diamond is worth more than a small, difficult-to-spot one. The Wealth of Nations - Subject matter
Ben studies The Great Depression but needs to go back to school....retard!
At first, Confederate currency was accepted throughout the South as a medium of exchange with high purchasing power. As the conflict progressed, however, confidence in the ultimate success waned, the amount of paper money increased, and their dates of redemption were extended further into the future. The inevitable result was depreciation of the currency, and soaring prices characteristic of inflation. For example, by the end of the conflict, a cake of soap could sell for as much as $50 and an ordinary suit of clothes was $2,700. Near the end of the war, the currency became practically worthless as a medium of exchange. When the Confederacy ceased to exist as a political entity at the end of the conflict, the money lost all value as fiat currency. Confederate States of America dollar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I suspect WaMu will find some way to stagger through tomorrow, unless the Gimme Credit story gets into major papers and/or local TV tomorrow. In that case, it wins a seven-day reprieve.
I posted this yesterday but if you actually read the Patriot Act this site, as well as many other's, could be shut down as soon as they receive the "official" designation. The Telco's got immunity a few weeks ago...all they need to do is come up with some "national security" BS and it's done. Remember the Stock Market's Health is in the interest of National Security....look it up.
I think "Greasey" Bair's comments were directed at the people poking fun at her...that's my take.
I can hear people still asking "norma??...oh norma!!!! What's a Blog?"
Finds a note on the kitchen counter. "I had to go to Seattle. Won't be home for about a week. There is still leftover pizza in the fridge from IndyMac. Love, Sheila."
Seriously though , there's mounting evidence that Chinese growth is slowing, and some talk of a sharpening dispute in China between those who see inflation as the main problem, and those concerned about slowing growth. The slowing growth side appears to be winning, so I doubt we'll see any moves by China to revalue (the mechanics of which would see less recycling of USD into US debt). Recent (record) treasury sales confirm there's still strong demand.
Long story short, China has the Treasury's (and by extension, the FDIC's) back ... for now.
If it is not a "run" on the bank, is that because WaMu is a new hip outfit that has done away with such stodgy old conventions? I wonder where the corral full of old-school bankers are tonight?
WASHINGTON(Reuters) - Even one collapsing bank is one too many. The takeover by federal regulators of IndyMac Bank-- the fifth to fail this year -- was unsettling for savers and investors. And the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. has close to 100 other banks on its watch list.
FDIC head Sheila Bair has moved to reassure consumers that she doesn't see further failures of banks as large as IndyMac -- the ninth biggest U.S. mortgage lender. But not all consumers are comforted. The recent earnings reports from big banks aren't helping: Wachovia lost $8.86 billion in one quarter. It could cost taxpayers as much as $25 billion to stabilize Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. When Citicorp reported that it only lost $2.5 billion in the same quarter, Wall Street took that as a good sign. Sheesh.
If it is not a "run" on the bank, is that because WaMu is a new hip outfit that has done away with such stodgy old conventions? I wonder where the corral full of old-school bankers are tonight?
All yelling 'Woo Hoo' at the Fed's Discount Window?
Nothing comes amiss; so money comes withal. -The Taming of the Shrew. Act i. Sc. 2.
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be: for loan oft loses both itself and friend; and borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."
You have a choice between the natural stability of gold and the honesty and intelligence of the members of government. And with all due respect for those gentlemen, I advise you, as long as the capitalist system lasts, vote for gold.
Topic: Gold
Source: The Merchant of Venice (Portia & Gratiano at V, i)
Okay - so with a Congressional "backstop" in place, that gives me time to FSBO my house, ramming-speed escrow, sell the car, cash out the pension, throw my worldly possessions in the back of a shortbed and move to some non-U.S., non-bubble, subsistence-based, palm-treed economic haven.
My question is this: how long before the loved ones who kept the faith in the Homeland would need me to start sending money every month?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trou-ble.
If I stay it will be dou-ble.
On the other hand, what Rayleigh did not see at all, and what Bachelier saw, and Poincare understood and appreciated, was the exploitation of symmetries, the reflection principle, which leads to the law of the maximum. Its something that probably comes from Bertrand. Poincare was undoubtedly the only one capable of quickly understanding the relevance of Bacheliers method to the operations of the Stock Exchange because, as of 1890, he had introduced in celestial mechanicsa method, called the chemins consequents, which involves trajectories.
July 24 (Bloomberg) -- Washington Mutual Inc., the biggest U.S. savings and loan, said it does all of its business through banking operations and ``does not rely on commercial paper.''
Washington Mutual responded, in an e-mailed statement, to a report from Gimme Credit LLC today, which said unsecured creditors of the Seattle-based company were ``pulling funds.'' The report cited a decline in federal funds purchased and commercial paper.
Altering my daily 15 mile bike route tomorrow so as to cover 2 WAMU and 1 DSL office 1/2 hour before 900AM openings, camera charged, to document any 'civilians' (non-bloggers) who got the message to show up. Film at 11 (AM).
Typically, private companies have "change in control" or "fundamental change" clauses in their bond covenants more often than do public companies. But the two issues of Countrywide's convertible bonds do have such clauses.
As part of the takeover, Countrywide was required to offer a fundamental change put for the two series of the debentures, Cohen says. Covenant Review says Countrywide was required to mail a notice of fundamental change and offer to repurchase by July 16, which did not occur, and repurchase them at par plus accrued and unpaid interest by Aug. 19. Essentially, according to Cohen, Bank of America has 26 days to pay up.
Ness: Belize is nice. There is a large population of mennonites you could probably shack up with while you learn to grow your own food. The cannabis is Belize is awful though. Cheap, but awful. I paid $20 USD for a brown paper lunch bag full.
For a nice academic explanation of the economics of looting institutions backed by the govt., check out this classic paper by Akerlof (Nobel prize winner).
so the really fun thing about FDIC insurance is that the FDIC is mandate via congressional regulation to have a coverage ratio of 1.10 of all deposits ensured. prior to IMB going down FDIC had a coverage ratio of 1.19 percent. The stated goal for the FDIC is 1.25 percent. After IMB went down, the coverage ratio dropped below 1.10 percent in the FDIC fund
so after IMB went down, the FDIC had to raise premiums charged to banks for FDIC insurance on accounts. If WAMU depletes the fund further, not only will the FDIC have a serious blow to their fund but they will have to raise premiums dramatically to try and replenish the fund. As each bank fails the FDIC will have to keep raising premiums, destroying profitability of the remaining banks.
The FDIC program is the same bullshit money transfer program as Social Security and many other govt programs. There is no fund dedicated to insurance if you have to raising premiums to get to the 1.10 targe =)
LMAO.....FDIC insurance coverage is worthless. It is just a quick fix program that like all insurance only is valid for one off events, not systemic events.
There goes the rally. Toast.
Gimme Shelter LLC?
Run on the bank? Get them photos posted!
I wonder if we could get a statement from Senator Schumer. He seems to have the inside line on these things.
I've actually had family members just in the past week ask me if they should take their money out of the bank, and where they should put it.
These are people who mocked my concerns just a couple years back.
The irony now is they're probably more concerned than I am.
I keep telling them just make sure you're covered by FDIC or in short-term treasuries -- you're almost guaranteed not to lose money that way since the government can just print it.
Whether that money will actually be worth anything or not when you get it is an entirely different matter of course.
It seems like the fear is spreading despite all the good work of our fine political and financial leaders.
If it weren't for those meddling bloggers, our plan would have been a success....
Looks like Downey is downy. Next?
Question: If the FDIC does take over a bank, how available is your money?
Gimmie Ponies LLC!
.................
Ponzi pyramid is going down. The sooner the better.
If WaMu has too many creditors pulling funds, it could quickly spread to ALL its creditors.
Sorry to hear this about WaMu.
Every time I go to Citibank and wait in line 10 minutes for a teller, I think of the days with WaMu when I used to have to wait at most two minutes.....
Can we dump Citi and save WaMu?
MiTurn writes:
Question: If the FDIC does take over a bank, how available is your money?
Lets just say its will be easier to get an iPhone....
Did you see those lines at indymac?
..................
Sheila: Quick! Here's the rumor monger you can scapegoat and crucify in your effort to silence the rest of us: name is Kathleen...ooops...never mind.
You'd be stupid not to pull funds as an unsecured. If I had any money there it would be out by the end of the day.
Kung Fu Panda writes:
If it weren't for those meddling bloggers, our plan would have been a success....
ROFL!
indimac cost fdic 8 bil.
how much will wamu and downey each cost, does anyone know?
thx
That's it. Sheila says CR is toast after that headline.
I can see Hank, Benny, and Shela in the back room arguing. I got the last one it's your turn.
Kathleen sounds like some mistress of Schumer and she needs to learn to keep her yapper shut tight, all we need is more truth and honesty and all that stuff that interferes with greasy hair'd obfuscation and false and misleading manipulated collusion, fraud and dishonesty from the team in currently in place to abuse power.
♥✿ ☼♥
Not that there are any current bank runs, or that there ever would be any...but say, theoretically, in a weird foreign country (that is not here or FDIC-insured)...should I be concerned if there were runs on multiple banks during the same year?
Has that kind of thing ever happened before? Was it a portend of bad things to come, economically, and geopolitically speaking?
WaMu won't be taken over by FDIC. They'll be shotgun married like CFC.
Who to?
My guess is Wells Fargo.
how much will wamu and downey each cost
Downey has just under $10 billion in deposits and I would guess around $1 billion is over FDIC limits. Theur portfolio is worse than IndyMac (Believe it or not) and will likely lose about 1/3rd of it. My wild guess is $6 billion for Downey.
WaMu is much bigger than Downey. I don't have their numbers, but it would be much more expensive. I doubt WaMu will go to FDIC. It will more likely go to another bank and the gov't will backstop some losses ala Bear Sterns.
Dr Evil writes:
You'd be stupid not to pull funds as an unsecured. If I had any money there it would be out by the end of the day.
Dr Evil | 07.24.08 - 2:56 pm | #
Flag this guy and open a file. Catalog as Red List.
``We won't use the phrase `run on the bank,' but we would be remiss if we did not observe that many creditors have quietly been pulling funds,'' wrote Shanley
Conjure asks, "How about SILENT RUN? Is it politically correct to use SILENT RUN?"
"quietly been pulling funds" - Isn't that a run on the bank by financially sophisticated people?
WAMU is about $90B.
How about "Run Silent, Run Deep"? IIRC that was a movie about submarines. Apropos, no?
Hmmm. Or can't we use code? Like, WAMU has a case of the trots. Fits in nicely with all the pony-talk.
I'm getting kinda worried Bairgoons will be paying me a visit. Can some other bank please fall on the sword before my predictions come true?
Aleister Perdurabo writes:
WAMU is about $90B.
That's about 3 times larger than Indymac?
Vee have vays ohf making you blog!
I been thinking about this for the last few days, and it's appropriate for this topic thread. As a financially responsible person, I'm going to get screwed by the government bailout of the banks. As I thought about, it I have come to the conclusion that I have two choices:
We (it will take many others) can implement choice #2 by going to our bank, taking out all our money in cash, and putting it in a safe deposit box, or in a safe at home.
If enough people were to do this, I believe the gov/fed/ceo crooks would get the message that we are tired of being screwed. However, this is pretty much the "suicide" approach...
On tickerforum.net rumors goes that WAMU has problem with derivative trades due to rating downgrade
WAMU RUMORS 1:57PM THURSDAY [Rumors] - MarketTicker Forums
The bloggers tearing down Wall Street, can you believe it?
Yes Giacutter....In 1930.
Ciao
MS
Not "Run Silent, Run Deep" but the dystopic "Silent Running" about global disdain for the natural laws.
With Big Brother watching the bloggers, should we start referring to them as B4|||< RU||$?
WM's days are numbered. Now other creditors will pull funds, and then depositors, and then it's all over.
How about "Run Silent, Run Deep"?
Yes, great story written by submariner Edward L. Beach.
Conjure is a firm believer in "run silent, run deep."
So what's MER's excuse?
Any chance they are particularly exposed to WaMu?
"Gimme A Break" - Wamu
I am having a lot of fun with Wamu...Woohoo baby
Another Trillion dollar bailout needed?
I thought Run Silent Run Deep was a movie with John Holmes?
We won't use the phrase `run on the bank'..
You just did.
The share price action tells all.....seems to have found "some" support in the 3.70 level....don't know if that really means a thing but It has stabilized...for the present.
Resumes it's race to zero next week IMO..
Ciao
MS
Oh and one more thing
Team America, F&$* YEA!
Wamu as of March 2008 had 188 BILLION in deposits and $320 BILLION in total assets.
IRWeblink
So ... it's not a bank run.
It's just a lot of people simultaneously pulling funds out of the bank. Sort of a funny coincidence, really.
And they are doing it Silently. (And, apparently, Deeply.)
Well, ok then, just so long as it's not a run on the bank. I feel better.
Wamu as of March 2008 had 188 BILLION in deposits and $320 BILLION in total assets.
FDIC has its hands full
well you can give those about a twenty percent haircut just off the top of my head...at least what they call "assets"...may even be the deposits by the end of the day
Toast I say...
Ciao
MS
What about:
Depositors are commencing the "activity that must not be named"?
It's a bad sign that WAMU's call letters are WM, initials another local Seattle company uses: Waste Management.
Re: case of the trots
See Ms Bair, also see:
YouTube -
Ouch, that could seriously deplete FDIC funds. Bend over, Sheila.
ps: i know you're listening.
BAC for WM
u heard it here 1st
Toast I say...
To American Socialism my friend...
Where's my favorite little pump monkey Sebastian at that can explain all of this. You might have a couple more weeks pump monkey if your lucky.
Sorry baby, no one can help WaMu, they have 45,000 employees and about 300 Billion of crap:
YouTube -
"It's a bit nut-ty" ROFL
CR watch out the next target are the blogs for "rumor mongering". We're all f%*@!
it's not a Run, seriously... how many septagenerians do you see running..
their clearly walking very fast , however. And more than one wheeled walker has taken a spill.
MS, what makes you think WM will last into next week? The funds are being pulled as we speak, and the news is hitting the internet and the business news websites right now, which means it's only going to get worse. It could all be over rather quickly.
Bank Jog? Dog Trot? Maybe just a really really really fast walk? Well, it's clear that somebodys dancing. Sign me up for the waterblogging - I'd be hurt if I wasn't on the list of the dirty informationers.
Awaiting PPT... C'mon guys!
Re: Bend over, Sheila
Do you have a photo Id with that comment young man? Would you like to go to prison for using free speech and saying shit that could be called the truth?
Seems to me BAC has it's pants full of another, rapidly escalating, problem.
But I guess If you "buy" the company and don't pay on the debt then I see it's possible.
Sounds like a strategy to me...
Ciao
MS
Another interesting note...the FHLB is into Wamu for 64 Billion. The FDIC ain't going to cover that!
Even more interesting is all the FHLB loans made to the banks...IndyMac was into them for billions.
Who backstops the FHLB when the music stops? (Don't say the taxpayer...don't say the taxpayer...)
silent but golden?
Ouch, that could seriously deplete FDIC funds.
Big damn deal Hanky Panky will hit the print button and presto canngeo money will come spilling out on the floor. The only problem is it isn't going to be worth the paper it's printed on but that is where this is headed and you better get ready.
The taxpayer can't fund this entire mess (at least with real dollars). That's the crux of the issue, and I think AllenM is spot on.
PrintPrintPrintPrintPrint...
I'm just glad we stole from the Chinese.
Us?
how about "Cleveland steamer" in place of "bank run"
For example - Depositors are currently engaged in a "Cleveland steamer" against Washington Mutual...
The "pull out" method often doesn't work and results in unintended consequences.
420 Visitors Online.
Pencils down, folks. The Universe has spoken.
WaMu will be doing just fine after close tomorrow. Read between the lines...I don't want to be a "prison bitch."
"It's a bit nut-ty"
Fat greasy bastard, yes that describes FDIC and all those that might suggest that they work there, along with all the fine people at SEC, Treasury, DOJ, FTC, FBI, DOL, DOT, DOD, who am I missing?
Hank its time to make like Gutenberg...
"Elvis writes:
The "pull out" method often doesn't work and results in unintended consequences.
Elvis | 07.24.08 - 3:20 pm | # "
Nice.
CSC, you've made a believer out of me.
Suddenly, everywhere I look, the answer is 420.
Douglas Adams was only off by a even factor of 10.
The "pull out" method often doesn't work and results in unintended consequences.
Can also be a lot of fun thought if you are creative.
it's a parade!
buckies out the bazooka!
But Cramer said to buy banks and sell energy just yesterday... now I don't believe in nothing
FDIC COURT
WARRANT FOR THE ARREST OF CONJURE BAG - DISTURBING THE PLEASANT DREAMS OF OUR SLUMBERING CITIZENRY
WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE (if you can tell the difference)
Rupert-
For the same reason any other insolvent over-leveraged institution is allowed to continue on in spite of very serious headwinds. I've no idea but IMB stock went under a buck and it was allowed to "Stay open".....It's not even at it's LOD....you would need an additional 3.5% to get to that. It will make this week....but not next.
This one, will have much larger ramifications based on it "touching" quite a few more people.
The deposits alone is reason enough to prop it up....they've been doing it with the share price since this morning.
Ciao
MS
"Wamu as of March 2008 had 188 BILLION in deposits and $320 BILLION in total asset."
On behalf of the FDIC, I would just like to say:
H O L Y S H I T
WAMU is HUGE, as many have posted. It's hard to say what it will cost the FDIC if it has to take over. Right now, very little - WAMU has positive cash. WAMU's problem is that it's going to lose a lot more, but nobody knows exactly how much. If the FDIC had to sell off its assets into the teeth of a panic, you might see losses like Indymac, 20-40% of deposits, which would be 40-80 billion. OTOH, in runoff, WAMU might break even and cost almost nothing - I guesstimated their future losses last year and it was almost exactly their current equity. So - the cost is an EXTREMELY wild guess.
If the FDIC really is watching, I'd like to go on record as saying that Sheila Blair is kinda sexy. She looks like the kind of girl I could tie dye t-shirts with or take camping. You know where to find me, Sheila.
This could be it. WaMu could be going into the grave.
There's no way they can raise capital now.
i'm sorry, we really did'nt see it coming.
Here we have a fine example of giving in to the urge of letting someone have a no doc loan at any bank USA: YouTube - Banned Commercial - Condoms
No one could say no, no one did and no one understands what happened!
Currently, do you think this is 'it' for WaMu?
People, people, come on! One bank failure every other week is tolerable. We can get through this if we keep our wits about us. Let's not go off the deep end now, please!
I'm closing on a sale tomorrow and paying off my Wamu mortgage. I'm doing my part to try to help. I feel patriotic.
They had been sending me a lot of letters on how I could refi my 5.7% 30 yr fixed.
Wamu is just fine - and this down trend in it's stock provides an excellent opportunity to get in at ground floor prices on a well run bank.
I rate it a strong buy.
mp, you are just ASKING for it depends what the definition of It is!
GMAC Enacts Plan To Bolster Rating...
this should be good for a laugh
I rate it a strong buy. BUY BUY Buy!
I can't believe anyone mentioned "SBD". Childish but appropos.
Wamu's going to have to find the cash somewhere to pay off their loans.
When they burn through their cash and short term investments, what's next?
Everyone's favorite 'lender of last resort'.
If WM goes belly up, who will pick up the pieces? Office of Credit something or other? Not the FDIC? I wonder who will get the blame this time. Schumer hasn't said anything about WM, has he? Too bad, if he had, he could be blamed,,,,again.
Start buying puts on WB.....they are not in much better shape....
The money has been made on WM (at least on the short side).....
Ciao
MS
I mean, come on. Is this 'it'?
I do. We just transferred to Wells this week. I feel like Indiana Jones running from the boulder, but what can we do?
Put your hands in the air and scream!
This is "it."
"to get in at ground floor prices on a well run bank"... or do you mean a bank undergoing a run....well...sorta?
Let the SS investigate "Giveme credit". Do you have your cameras ready?
ADDITIONAL NOTE RE CONJURE BAG WARRANT:
K9 UNITS URGED TO EXERCISE DUE CAUTION
Fed Weighs Three Plans to Spur Bank Investments by Buyout Firms
Fed Weighs Plans to Spur Bank Investment by LBO Firms (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
One proposal would permit buyout firms to use so-called silo funds walled off from their other investments to buy the stakes without subjecting the rest of their holdings to more federal oversight, said the people, who declined to be identified because the talks aren't public. Under another scenario, the Fed would allow private equity firms to exercise more control of banks they invest in. A third plan would encourage buyout firms to invest together.
Third plan sounds interesting, will it be an index i wonder?
1/4 of outstanding traded today.
so far... last 1/2 hour could be crazy.
Can I place my sandwich and drink order directly with Sheila for the Friday event ? Sheila, if you are reading this, I' ll have a Ruben on toasted rye,corned beef smothered in thousand island dressing , a pickle, and a root beer float, hold the fries I am on the diet and that hot sun is a killer. We are gonna have ourselves a Paaaaartyyyy !!!!!
Although I concede it might not feel like "it" until Citi is found boobies-skyward. Then it's Mad Max time.
I'm pulling my $200 out tomorrow, maybe that'll be the last straw
Hey there it is. Blame Gimme Credit. Shut em down. Shut em up. Jail time. Telling the truth is forbidden in Bush's USA. We've known that since Iraq or before.
jim- "to get in at ground floor prices on a well run bank"... or do you mean a bank undergoing a run....well...sorta?
Are you suggesting we go BOTTOM FEED on a little WaMu, thinking there might be a TURNAROUND?
Perhaps if The FDIC is watching here today they may pickup some clues for Friday.....ROTFLMAO
Is it Linda Blair or Sheila Bair? I think it's Mr. Puff?
YouTube -
Ahhh... Citigroup. Another well run company and a perfect buying opportunity. I suspect that 1.2 trillion off balance sheet has done nothing but appreciate over the last year.
Yet another strong buy.
Trading-
I'm so out of practice with daily trading I've been Oh so tempted though...that volume early on was too scary though
The run down to 3.56 and then back over 4 was a great opp. IMO
Oh well....if you are right usually lasts more than a day.
Ciao
Re: Fed Weighs Three Plans to Spur Bank Investments
BB, oh my.
i've got a silo out back. with a little bridge financing i think i can buy pretty much what anyone would want ot sell. just call me hi-bid
Is FDIC blaiming the "blogsphere" is this true I thought it is a joke but i hear it again and gain on the "blogsphere"...can't be true . show me some real MS web site with such nonsense
I think the new "administration" at Citi has made the off balance sheet stuff invisible. Thrown Harry Potter's invisibility cloak over it all. The "Harry Potter" move, we might say.
Sounds like this could cause the CDO house of cards to finally come down.
Perhaps Kunstler's prediction that Bush would be going out by means as unconventional as he came in, i.e. running away to his ranch in Paraguay a bit early while Pelosi stepped into the oval office, will be vindicated.
Have a press conference with Bush joking about the economy
Why not ask the ecnomicistationers's in the Treasury to do it.
Bits_of_Real_Panther writes:
I'm pulling my $200 out tomorrow, maybe that'll be the last straw
Awesome. I have no doubt we will see something like this in the news during the next [event that we dare not name].
Some guy banging a soup pot with a wooden spoon: "Open the door, motherf**kers! I want my fifty three dollars!"
MS,
Yah, that's been one of my trading problems... underestimating the longevity of a move. Guess you could say that's a macro bubble thing, too; those always last much longer than you think they can.
The FASB rule change on off balance sheet is a nice little nuclear bomb waiting to go off:
FASB set to change off balance sheet accounting - Accountancy Age
WM intraday chart just went blank on me and won't come up......
Not a good sign IMO...
Ciao
MS
I think I meant CDS house of cards.
Is this her?
In April 2007, a 42-year-old Saline County woman, Sheila Blair, was arrested for driving under the influence. It was her tenth.
Yesterday in Saline County Circuit Court, Blair was convicted of felony DWI by a jury after 24 minutes of deliberation.
Dean, I thought the FDIC paid off FHLB first, then depositors? That is what I remembered (maybe incorrectly) from this same question last week or so?
FFDIC, what is the correct answer?
just got an e-mail from my broker (Fidelity Investments) with the title "Let the Trend Be Your Friend".
Those stock brokers have such a wicked sense of humor!
Hey we don't want to bring the off balance sheet stuff onboard, we want to send it into outer space where it cannot come back to bother us.
effing AMZN still up almost 10 bucks in spite of this....
Yea that's freely traded....Guess Bill Miller getting greedy..
Ciao
MS
Bill Miller getting greedy.. You and CSC are on top of your respective games today. You're killing me...
PPT is fighting, but only moderately, so far.
The fact that the dow couldn't touch 11,700 and is dropping fast after this 'rally' is not a good sign.
Some would say ominous.
SEC and Fed at odds over authority to oversee investment banks
SEC and Fed at odds over authority to oversee investment banks - The New York Times
WASHINGTON: The head of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission said Thursday that his agency should oversee investment banks under a new regulatory system aimed at averting another credit crisis.
But at a congressional hearing on how to modernize a regulatory structure that has not kept pace with drastic shifts in the financial system, a top U.S. Federal Reserve official emphasized that the central bank must directly supervise all companies that borrow from it.
All about turf.
jg:
Not sure. The FHLB's website indicates there is no Federal guarantee of their debt. In fact they file with the SEC so I assume it is publicly traded. In fact, banks pledge assets as collateral for FHLB loans.
When the FDIC liquidates the assets, they have to pay off the FHLB, which could serve to increase the losses to the FDIC. Check out this one-pager from the FRBSF:
http://www.stls.frb.org/publications/re/2000/d/data/page_8.pdf
i sold SPX at 1288. Now my shorts are well in place as well. This puppy is gonna retest
PPT. You are the wind beneath my wings.
BAC is giving out 4.11% 7 month CDs. Do you know of any better deals?
Wells and WaMu?
I think I just heard the sound of heads exploding over at my regional office.
Doubt it for 2 reasons:
1: Too much geographic overlap. With the exception of WaMu's expansion into the NE, both banks work the same side of the street, so no value their.
2: Servicing Wamu's loan portfolio is gonna be a horror show, I don't know if they can scale up enough to make it worth their while in relation to #1.
Wells/SunTrust(whenever SunTrust goes terminal)? It'd make sense.
I guess this must be the PCP talking, but I almost think Citi/WaMu would make sense on the retail banking side, even though I don't think Citi has the strength necessary to succesfully pull it off.
Greasy Hair - Causes & Solutions
Greasy Hair - Causes & Solutions
Hair that develops a lank, flat, stringy or oily appearance is often referred to by hairdressers and hair consumers as "greasy" hair. This type of hair is hard to control, clumps together easily and does not hold a style well.
Where does greasy hair originate from?
424 and counting
Downey Financial and Wamu in a race to bottom???
Capitalism works very well on the way up.
Switching to "ponzi scheme socialism" on the way down is brilliant.
TPG!!!!!!!!!! How's that feel? TPG agreed to buy $7 billion of stock at $8.75, a 33 percent discount. Bwahahahahahahaaaaaaa...
If "it" really hits the fan, could the Fed lend directly to consumers? I know it sounds nuts now, but it appears as though the entire banking system has the ebola virus.
Is this even possible?
"WaMu won't be taken over by FDIC. They'll be shotgun married like CFC"
Why would you say that? I don't think so at all. The FDIC always turns the assets over to a stronger institution, with some juice to sweeten. And there's some footprint and size concern so WFC may actually not be in a position. It's worth speculating but perhaps there's some humpty-dumpty action that breaks WaMu up and scatters fragments to the identified survivors...
I don't think banks eat chimpanzee, so I doubt they can get ebola.
Currently Smoking Cannabis as your names suggests, you might already have an answer.
I feel like Indiana Jones running from the boulder
You may recall that after Indiana Jones successfully outran the boulder in that movie, the next thing he saw was the barrel of a loaded gun.
I recently told a family member that if he has more than 100K at WaMu, he should do something with the excess (deposit in another bank).
Anyway, the bank told him that since he has another family member listed as a beneficiary, he is covered up to 200k. Does this sound right?
Perfect, Dean; thanks!
To my untrained eye, priority (FHLB or guaranteed depositors first) does not matter; both get paid, and FDIC takes the hit on the shortfall.
The people have been told all they need to know.
You will return to regular blogging now. We will watch you.
another coincidence is that this really gained steam (the move down) just after the oil markets closed for the day....
hardly a coincidence IMO
The big four have shot there "wad" last week.
EWZ falling off a cliff too...
Ciao
MS
Oh yes, El Cliffo. Belloch.
In our case...Barack Obelloch?
Normally, the shills-that-be like Bair blame the media whenever the "unexpected" happens, but since Kudlow, Cramer & Co. are fellow-traveling cheerleaders themselves, the only available target are the filthy bloggers. Which is a sign that people like Tanta and CR have more impact than the shills would want to admit.
The "pull out" method often doesn't work and results in unintended consequences.
Elvis | 07.24.08 - 3:20 pm | # "
Yeah, I had heard that early withdrawal may lead to loss of interest.
Currently- "Is this even possible?"
A quick look at the Fed charter reveals they can pretty much do whatever they want. Lend money to banks, or you and me, build submarines, whatever.
However, I'm sure there would be some legal objections.
In our case...Barack Obelloch?
Full name please.
Barack Hussein Napoleon Pol Pot Obelloch.
Radical Islamist Communist Anarchist Son of Satan.
Oh, yeah, and responsible for all past and future bank failures.
"NevskyProspekt writes:
This could be it. WaMu could be going into the grave.
There's no way they can raise capital now."
There is alot of conjecture and rumors, but the above is a true statement. There's not a chance in hell that WaMu is able to raise the capital it needs now. Fate sealed.
Damn. Four oclock comes so soon. "SRS came to a screeching halt at 4:00 PM, stopping its meteoric rise".
Got to go, some guy wants to trade me his F-150 for my bike.
I feel like Indiana Jones running from the boulder
You may recall that after Indiana Jones successfully outran the boulder in that movie, the next thing he saw was the barrel of a loaded gun.
You may recall that after Indian Jones successfully avoided the barrel of a loaded gun, the next thing he saw was javelins and poison darts.
What do you do with 45,000 employees and $300B of debt -- you can't fix that, and this is somewhat unlike Krispy Kream, in that a bank can take over Krispy and fire the donut machines backup -- but with 45,000 employees who are suppossed to be collecting cash and then keeping it safe, and having USA regulations allow it to go teats up is something new -- we aint been this far gone since:
The Wealth of Nations was published in 1776, during the Age of Enlightenment. It influenced not only authors and economists, but governments and organisations. For example, Alexander Hamilton was influenced in part by The Wealth of Nations to write his Report on Manufactures, in which he argued against many of Smith's policies. Interestingly, Hamilton based much of this report on the ideas of Jean-Baptiste Colbert, and it was, in part, to Colbert's ideas that Smith wished to respond with The Wealth of Nations. Many other authors were influenced by the book and used it as a starting point in their own work, including Jean-Baptiste Say, David Ricardo, Thomas Malthus and, later, Karl Marx and Ludwig von Mises. The Russian national poet Aleksandr Pushkin refers to The Wealth of Nations in his 1833 verse-novel Eugene Onegin.
Irrespective of historical influence, however, The Wealth of Nations represented a clear leap forward in the field of economics, similar to Sir Isaac Newton's Principia Mathematica for physics or Antoine Lavoisier's Traité Élémentaire de Chimie for chemistry. The Wealth of Nations is also important in a Scottish linguistic context on account of the fact the book is written in English and not in Scots Language, a somewhat rare occurrence for the time.
Smith addresses in The Wealth of Nations a problem that was torturing the best economic minds of his day. This problem was rooted in the means by which objects are valued. The two predominant theories of value in Smith's time were the so-called "Practical Theory of Value" and the labor theory of value, as delineated later by David Ricardo.
"Does this sound right?"
Ask him if it's worth losing money over, since it costs nothing to open the account.
I bet most of the people on this board would freak if Sheila sent you an e-mail saying to cease and desist.
how likely FDIC take over WaMu Friday after closing?
I always seem to get it wrong, but...if a WaMu seizure/shotgun marriage doesn't jump the shark to the national water cooler, I can't imagine what will. Another bailout so soon might stanch the dollars, but not the PR damage.
Economic Katrina.
I like the draconian limits on free speech now applied to banking... It's like the War On Financial Terror.
Well.... kathleen has that hunormous CFA certificate, 20 years as an anal-yst, and a Wharton degree, so maybe someone was holding a gun to her head?
Who owns that company... Gimme Credit LLC.. who are these people, and what connection do they have to Bill Gross and D.E. Shaw?
Did my own mini rn on the bnk last week with Wamu and moved said assets to TD Commerce. I checked yesterday on bankrate.com and found Commerce in the business of 5% down mortgages...guess there's no safe place to put your money.
Beware the ides...
What exactly is a "creditor" in this case? I thought a creditor was someone you borrowed money from, on specific terms, with specific due dates, etc. Are we talking "unsecured depositor"?
Wharton is nothing to be proud out. Move along.
I used to get kicked off Yahoo (all the time) and they hated me during The Dotcom wra there and they really dis-liked the truth at Motley Fool. Truth is not what people want to hear and I have told the key is to tell people what they want to hear... so hard to do though.... I'm Honest Friggn Abe and a patriot!
"Anyway, the bank told him that since he has another family member listed as a beneficiary, he is covered up to 200k. Does this sound right?"
Sorry, but I'm having more than a little difficulty understanding the logic of this.
Why in the hell would any sane person want to accept the risk of it not being correct? OK, you might lose some interest, but Jesus, you want to run the risk of losing your principal too? All because some moron at WaMu, who has his/her own axe to grind, tells you a STORY!?
Where's the guarantee? Put it in writing! Is this some kind of school test? Do I get a grade or something?
Thanks, mp. Maybe that's why they chose "Helicopter" to conduct the circus at this time.
I'm not trying to be silly here. It just seems like our current options are between having out throat slit and being hung.
kathleen has that hunormous CFA certificate
I remember the name and then there was an issue with physical size of the certificate, i.e, you said it was very large, but as I said then, and will swear to now, I have never seen one in person...
Sonumabich,
don't trust anything the bank says.
Here is what is covered:
Suze Orman: What You Need to Know About FDIC Insurance - CNBC
Elvis writes:
Wharton is nothing to be proud out. Move along.
Elvis | 07.24.08 - 4:01 pm | #
Kellogg shill?
Biggest ever demand by dealers at Fed's TSLF auction
UPDATE 1-Biggest ever demand by dealers at Fed's TSLF auction
| Reuters
Sounds about right.
YouTube -
50 ways to leave your banker?
Biggest ever demand by dealers at Fed's TSLF auction
Sounds like the FED is getting a run of it's own.
One little note re the value of the dollar. I just came from taking a look at the restaurant menu of the Hotel Bristol in Paris. One can have a chicken for two for $330. This is just the chicken, mind you. Nothing else. No bread or butter, no veggies, no potatoes, no wine, nothing else. Just the chicken. I assume that is one very tasty chicken. LOL
Biggest ever demand by dealers at Fed's TSLF auction
IT where did you see this?
Kellogg shill?
No I prefer General Mills. Wheaties.
YouTube - Apocalypse Now - smell of napalm
Time to begin the thoughts that this can get worse.
Much worse.
Someday this war's gonna end...
We all know the truth: there is not enough pizza in Seattle for something drastic to happen.
Uncle B,
I'm not sure I can keep going over the same ol ground:
And did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?
Tim - from:
Anonymous | 07.24.08 - 4:05 pm | #
JP and mp,
Thanks for answering. WaMu told him that he is guaranteed for the first 100k and that the beneficiary is guaranteed after that for the next 100k.
Maybe I should have been more clear.
Sorry
We all know the truth: there is not enough pizza in Seattle for something drastic to happen.
wally
There is enough coffee though.
There has never been a better time to buy!
Claudius Maximus
If there were a national bank, owned by the US Treasury, there would be a safe place for one's money. I keep saying this til I am blue in the face.
IT, Anony Gracias
The short sale approval I just received from IndyMac for a client requires that escrow wire the proceeds due IMB to their account... at Wells Fargo.
I bet most of the people on this board would freak if Sheila sent you an e-mail saying to cease and desist.
I'd switch my ISP to AOL and forward it to my very bestest clostestest friends; insisting they forward it to all their closestest friends or bad things would happen to them.
22-yr low in retail sales
reddie Mac reports the average 30-yr mortgage rate bumped to 6.63% from 6.35% in the latest week, 15-yrs jumped to 6.18% from 5.92% and the 1-yr adjustables saw 5.49% from 5.17%. A year ago the 30s were 6.69%, 15s were 6.37% and the 1-yrs 5.69% (Reuters)
1:24 pm - Bidding : Bonds grabbed a bid on the solid large sized auction results, with the good demand, lower yield and improved participation of foreign central banks all helping. The 5-yr is leading slightly, while the curve is steepened, with the 2-10-yr yield spread running to 142.4 from 140.4 and the 5-30-yr to 123.4 from 120.7. The 10-yr is having a little trouble knocking out the 4.03% point, but if stocks start to crumble further, rather than indulging in the late session rallies they're so fond of, 4.02% should be tagged.
♥✿ ☼♥
So what the consensus here. FDIC takeover within a week, perhaps tomorrow?
This didn't get any love, but it had me laughing at my desk in reference to the Conjure Bag arrest warrant:
K9 UNITS URGED TO EXERCISE DUE CAUTION
"I bet most of the people on this board would freak if Sheila sent you an e-mail saying to cease and desist."
Conjure says, "I'd tell her to print a copy of the email, roll it up, and put it wherever it fits the best."
So what the consensus here. FDIC takeover within a week, perhaps tomorrow?
Within the end of the Month IMO. But Sheila no one has to listen to me. They asked I answered OK.
I find it amazing that Sebastian posted at the very apex of this bear market rally yesterday(10:45-11:05).
He blows away the BusinessWeek cover contra-indicator for both timing and frequency.
Re: put it wherever it fits the best.
Headline on MW--it's been there all day:
Why commodities are out and financials are roaring back
prior posts on this "WAMU is HUGE, as many have posted. It's hard to say what it will cost the FDIC if it has to take over."
WM has more than $300b in assets. the fdic cost estimate on an asset basis for IMB was 12.5% to 25%. WM would be in the same range so let's say $37.5b to $75b. of course losses can rise as the amount of assets grows. on teh low side, $4b from IMB and $37.b should WM go, would take about 80% of the $52.4b insurance fund.
"WaMu told him that he is guaranteed for the first 100k and that the beneficiary is guaranteed after that for the next 100k.
Maybe I should have been more clear.
Sorry
Sonumabich | 07.24.08 - 4:08 pm | # "
I haven't read the exact policy on who is covered, but this statement doesn't pass the smell test. I would confirm it in writing in the policy.
Or, better yet, be safe and move the second $100k to another institution while you investigate. As others have said, why take a chance?
501 visitors. Sheila made it 501.
Re: consensus?
More confusion, more chaos, more dis-organization built upon weak foundations and false and misleading manipulated government lies...
Director of Research at Gimme Credit: Carol Levenson
Graduate of the uncle milty school of economic warfare.
Is that it? Does she run the place? Sheila, get yer grease-gun ready.
Conjure Bag says, "I am putting WaMu on death watch."
I would love to get an email from Sheila. We will dye rainbow pinwheels while jamming to the Allman Brothers. Afterwards, we will go to a drum circle and eat some shrooms.
Bull and Bair will take on a whole new meaning...
ice jam job on the close for WM...
has to be some shorts covering or someone is in the know.
Soon find out.
TIM-
You can track the ahem..."auctions" here:
Temporary Open Market Operations - Federal Reserve Bank of New York
The one thing I have noticed is that the "accepted" amounts are starting to be a lot smaller than they used to. In the past you would see something like 70b "submitted" and say 19b "accepted". The amounts (both) are coming down as the banks know the Fed has a limit so they don't "submit" any more than what would skew the #'s.
The %'s seem to remain the same...FWIW
Ciao
MS
Tanta, hit it baby, post that porno link now, we have 500 and that could put us over 700!
Well let's see, WM goes down on Friday and by Tuesday Benny and the market manipulators will come in with a stick save. One of these days they are going to try that and the whole thing is going to come down like the stinking pile of crap that it is. Surprise me Benny.
OK. Let's move along. Next rumor.
Who takes over FDIC in two weeks?
These malicious rumors that Washington Mutual is having clients silently withdraw funds are absolutely untrue. Washington Mutual is well capitalized and as sound as the rock of Gibraltar. The Federal Reserve, as well as the FDIC, stand ready to absolutely back this institution. May I remind you that no customer has ever lost a cent in deposits at WAMU since it's inception.
"Who takes over FDIC in two weeks?"
Hanky Panky who else.
485 looking to share cell space when Sheila drops the hammer. Party on!
God, I forgot about grease-guns, but nothing was mentioned about grease fires or grease removers (yet) however:
"The night seems tedious to my troubled soul, Whose black obscurity binds in my mind A thousand sundry cogitations: And now Aurora, with a lively dye, Adds comfort to my spirit that mounts on high-- Too high indeed, my state being so mean. My study, like a mineral of gold, Makes my heart proud, wherein my hopes enrolled; My books is all the wealth I do possess."
"Who takes over FDIC in two weeks?"
I can't remember who posted it here, but "Hu's your daddy?!?"
These are people who mocked my concerns just a couple years back.
The irony now is they're probably more concerned than I am.
AC, an early and astute comment. Some still won't listen to me. Some mock me out of their fear. (They want to blame someone.)
This isn't a bank run. Its the smart money 'pulling out.' The run is when the sheeple catch on that their betters are already to high ground.
Tomorrow could be interesting. How are the Pizza orders at the FED?
Got Popcorn?
Neil
I would confirm it in writing in the policy.
Yes.
Do not now, nor ever take somebody's word.
Just picture the post-collapse conversation: [whine]But I spoke to your manager and he told me I was insured [/whine].
Don't screw with it. The cost to make sure you're insured is probably less than 2 hours of driving around.
just checked the site meter.
FDIC on board
@Well let's see, WM goes down on Friday and by Tuesday Benny and the market manipulators will come in with a stick save.
There will be a ferocious rally, not sure when, but sure how.
Who cares if She drops the hammer as long as She drops the soap first?
Just an anecdotal statement: my friend pulled his entire home equity credit line from WaMu yesterday. After the signed check was delivered, the manger of the branch said they could extend the credit line more.
An unnamed official has announced that after this weekend's bank bailout guarantees the Dept. of the Treasury will be renamed The People's Bank.
Neil- "This isn't a bank run. Its the smart money 'pulling out.' The run is when the sheeple catch on that their betters are already to high ground."
Conjure Bag says, "Ahhhhh-mmmen."
Neil with deal is gunna get greased!
The practical theory of value (also called the objective or intrinsic theory of value) held that an object's value was rooted in how useful it is to mankind. This had been the general consensus theory of value for many years, up to Smith's era. However, if this theory were true, why was it that diamonds (which have no practical use) command a much higher price than water (which is utterly crucial to man's existence)? This problem was known as "the diamond-water paradox", as it seemed to make no sense.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Smith does not solve the riddle in The Wealth of Nations, but he points it out as an important question remaining to be answered in the field of economics. He does attempt to give a solution by adopting the labor theory: he concludes that diamonds are worth more than water because of their rarity, and because great effort is required to mine and cut them. However, Smith admits that even this solution is unsatisfactory because it does not sufficiently describe why diamonds are worth more than, say, emeralds (which require even more labor to mine, and are considerably rarer), or why a large, easily mined diamond is worth more than a small, difficult-to-spot one.
The Wealth of Nations - Subject matter
Everybody in my family is lined up at the piggy bank demanding their money. Things must be bad.
An unnamed official has announced that after this weekend's bank bailout guarantees the Dept. of the Treasury will be renamed The People's Bank.
People's is already taken, it's in Connecticut.
Unfortunately, the piggy bank is $5.36 short and I'm the FDIC around here.
Maybe they cut a deal before the market opens Friday?
WM or DSL this friday? cage match with Bair!
We're approaching the event horizon.
The internet has opened the eyes of many. It's awfully hard to have faith in high leverage and overpriced assets.
A massive loss of public faith in banks is certainly possible.
We're all Northern Rock now.
Ben studies The Great Depression but needs to go back to school....retard!
At first, Confederate currency was accepted throughout the South as a medium of exchange with high purchasing power. As the conflict progressed, however, confidence in the ultimate success waned, the amount of paper money increased, and their dates of redemption were extended further into the future. The inevitable result was depreciation of the currency, and soaring prices characteristic of inflation. For example, by the end of the conflict, a cake of soap could sell for as much as $50 and an ordinary suit of clothes was $2,700. Near the end of the war, the currency became practically worthless as a medium of exchange. When the Confederacy ceased to exist as a political entity at the end of the conflict, the money lost all value as fiat currency.
Confederate States of America dollar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I suspect WaMu will find some way to stagger through tomorrow, unless the Gimme Credit story gets into major papers and/or local TV tomorrow. In that case, it wins a seven-day reprieve.
See Hackleberry? Diamonds iz a scam.
I posted this yesterday but if you actually read the Patriot Act this site, as well as many other's, could be shut down as soon as they receive the "official" designation. The Telco's got immunity a few weeks ago...all they need to do is come up with some "national security" BS and it's done. Remember the Stock Market's Health is in the interest of National Security....look it up.
I think "Greasey" Bair's comments were directed at the people poking fun at her...that's my take.
I can hear people still asking "norma??...oh norma!!!! What's a Blog?"
Ciao
MS
A little moderation maybe - just at main branch downtown San Diego - QUIET, nothing out of place.
Wow! Lots of negativity going around here. Unfortunately, my job forbids me to talk about anything that's been going on.
If recent history is any guide, WM news will be all over the Prole press and people will be lining up by noon.
This will cause a massive rally and the stock will triple by close.
This is a new economy, 'member?
"Honey, I'm home, what is for dinner?"
"Honey?"
Finds a note on the kitchen counter. "I had to go to Seattle. Won't be home for about a week. There is still leftover pizza in the fridge from IndyMac. Love, Sheila."
The whole thing is an illusion!
The intrinsic value of a dollar is equivalent to a piece of toilet paper.
Billions in deposits are backed by a fraction of the dollars on hand.
The FDIC backstops the banks with $53 billion dollars (of which they only have $4 billion on hand as of Dec 31).
The name of the game is faith!
Conjure Bag says, "Damn it, Mish, now I read that you're using my "death spiral" line. I'll have to start copyrighting all of my comments."
All Rights Reserved 2008, Conjure Bag
Sonic Seuss
"Hu's your daddy now"... that would be me.
Seriously though , there's mounting evidence that Chinese growth is slowing, and some talk of a sharpening dispute in China between those who see inflation as the main problem, and those concerned about slowing growth. The slowing growth side appears to be winning, so I doubt we'll see any moves by China to revalue (the mechanics of which would see less recycling of USD into US debt). Recent (record) treasury sales confirm there's still strong demand.
Long story short, China has the Treasury's (and by extension, the FDIC's) back ... for now.
At the risk of losing a major market indicator, CR needs to go underground. Distribute VPN software.
Zees is C.H.A.O.S! Vee don't blog hee-ahr.
autex shows ppto buys 200mm WM
Unfortunately, my job forbids me to talk
What is your job?
Professional mime
MS, in the case we need a rendezvous point in case CR gets shut down.
How about BR's blog, or maybe Naked Capitalism?
Best Schulz accent: "I know no-think"
If it is not a "run" on the bank, is that because WaMu is a new hip outfit that has done away with such stodgy old conventions? I wonder where the corral full of old-school bankers are tonight?
Some perspective:
Emergency Banking Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
SEC, Fed push for authority over investment banks
SEC, Fed push for authority over investment banks
| Reuters
Of course they do that way next time they bailout one of these fools they won't have to answer a whole lot of questions like was it legal.
By Linda Stern
WASHINGTON(Reuters) - Even one collapsing bank is one too many. The takeover by federal regulators of IndyMac Bank-- the fifth to fail this year -- was unsettling for savers and investors. And the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. has close to 100 other banks on its watch list.
FDIC head Sheila Bair has moved to reassure consumers that she doesn't see further failures of banks as large as IndyMac -- the ninth biggest U.S. mortgage lender. But not all consumers are comforted. The recent earnings reports from big banks aren't helping: Wachovia lost $8.86 billion in one quarter. It could cost taxpayers as much as $25 billion to stabilize Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. When Citicorp reported that it only lost $2.5 billion in the same quarter, Wall Street took that as a good sign. Sheesh.
Rupert, Costa Rica's been proposed. I like that idea.
Phew, ramen. I sorta guessed you had to be in the arts. I'm so glad it isn't puppetmaster.
If it is not a "run" on the bank, is that because WaMu is a new hip outfit that has done away with such stodgy old conventions? I wonder where the corral full of old-school bankers are tonight?
All yelling 'Woo Hoo' at the Fed's Discount Window?
Nothing comes amiss; so money comes withal. -The Taming of the Shrew. Act i. Sc. 2.
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be: for loan oft loses both itself and friend; and borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."
You have a choice between the natural stability of gold and the honesty and intelligence of the members of government. And with all due respect for those gentlemen, I advise you, as long as the capitalist system lasts, vote for gold.
Topic: Gold
Source: The Merchant of Venice (Portia & Gratiano at V, i)
How about BR's blog, or maybe Naked Capitalism?
If this gets shut down, then something offshore would make more sense.
I'm in for Panama. It is cheaper and the beaches are less crowded.
Cooking ramen in my percolator, you can still type. Tell us what you know.
How about BR's blog
Don't mentions BR to MS...
These guy's are Cornholiod, they will be ASSimilated.
Can we change it to Jaco, though? There are hardly any hookers in Guanacaste and the surfing is fine in Jaco. I'll be at the Beatle Bar.
Men, we're deep in the shitter now. The only option may be to tell the truth. God have mercy on our souls.
Re: FDIC head Sheila Bair has moved to reassure consumers that she doesn't see further failures of banks as large as IndyMac
Sheila, if your watching, take a look at WaMu, they have 45,000 employees!
No dood...we're going to Costa Rica. It's all good.
The problem with Costa Rica is all those damn monkeys take your stuff from the beach when you are in the water.
The only option may be to tell the truth.
You slay me.
Don't worry, your beach belongings are FDIC-insured up to a value of 100,000 American pesos.
Elvis: That's another reason to go to Jaco. No monkey is going to take your stuff with a street tough Tica or Nica guarding it.
Pura Vida!
Here it is, finally -- proof that it's the Hollywood-REIC complex that is the source of our woes:
http://tinyurl.com/5sh2f7
Note that she is the CEO/Founder of Gimme Credit LLC AND involved in lending.
(this is not an active linkedIn profile, it was cached)
All your belongings are belong to us. Eeeep.
Okay - so with a Congressional "backstop" in place, that gives me time to FSBO my house, ramming-speed escrow, sell the car, cash out the pension, throw my worldly possessions in the back of a shortbed and move to some non-U.S., non-bubble, subsistence-based, palm-treed economic haven.
My question is this: how long before the loved ones who kept the faith in the Homeland would need me to start sending money every month?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trou-ble.
If I stay it will be dou-ble.
Is it wrong not to always be glad ?
No, its not wrong - but I must add
How can someone so young
Sing words so sad ?
Sheila take a, Sheila take a bow
Boot the grime of this world in the crotch, dear
And don't go home tonight
.......
YouTube
- The Smiths - Sheila Take A Bow
Larry Kudlow hit the sauce and the meds a little early today and hasn't let up.
On the other hand, what Rayleigh did not see at all, and what Bachelier saw, and Poincare understood and appreciated, was the exploitation of symmetries, the reflection principle, which leads to the law of the maximum. Its something that probably comes from Bertrand. Poincare was undoubtedly the only one capable of quickly understanding the relevance of Bacheliers method to the operations of the Stock Exchange because, as of 1890, he had introduced in celestial mechanicsa method, called the chemins consequents, which involves trajectories.
two issues of Countrywide convertible bonds, with a par value of $4 billion, are in technical default.
dj wire
I just saw Larry Kudlow on CNBC talk of a housing bottom and turn-around.
He should be fired. He has no credibility. Actually, CNBC has no credibility either.
Kudlow just said: "I don't know much about the stock market."
Crox down 55% aH. "Down goes Frazier, down goes Frazier!"
Ness,
I recommend Venezula. Nice leader there, too.
What happens when dollars are short in demand. I mean actual ferns?
July 24 (Bloomberg) -- Washington Mutual Inc., the biggest U.S. savings and loan, said it does all of its business through banking operations and ``does not rely on commercial paper.''
Washington Mutual responded, in an e-mailed statement, to a report from Gimme Credit LLC today, which said unsecured creditors of the Seattle-based company were ``pulling funds.'' The report cited a decline in federal funds purchased and commercial paper.
zackattack writes:
The "pull out" method often doesn't work and results in unintended consequences.
Elvis | 07.24.08 - 3:20 pm | # "
Yeah, I had heard that early withdrawal may lead to loss of interest.
I believe the phrase is "substantial penalty for early withdrawal".
Altering my daily 15 mile bike route tomorrow so as to cover 2 WAMU and 1 DSL office 1/2 hour before 900AM openings, camera charged, to document any 'civilians' (non-bloggers) who got the message to show up. Film at 11 (AM).
Buy early AM Friday, sell 12PM Wed. after bailout plans announced.
Double or nothing!
Angry Saver- "He should be fired. He has no credibility. Actually, CNBC has no credibility either."
Sorry, but I have to ask: did you figure this out all by yourself?
Psss! Show me your hall pass or get back to the class room.
No rumormongering allowed here.
Typically, private companies have "change in control" or "fundamental change" clauses in their bond covenants more often than do public companies. But the two issues of Countrywide's convertible bonds do have such clauses.
As part of the takeover, Countrywide was required to offer a fundamental change put for the two series of the debentures, Cohen says. Covenant Review says Countrywide was required to mail a notice of fundamental change and offer to repurchase by July 16, which did not occur, and repurchase them at par plus accrued and unpaid interest by Aug. 19. Essentially, according to Cohen, Bank of America has 26 days to pay up.
Gimme Credit?? Naw, just Gimme My Money
I believe the phrase is "substantial penalty for early withdrawal".
I fear a late withdrawal more. Especially with Wamu. < $100K.
Why take the risk??
LIve FDIC SubPrime Aid Concert to Benefit WallStreet!!
Please donate all you can ASAP!!
YouTube -
Ness: Belize is nice. There is a large population of mennonites you could probably shack up with while you learn to grow your own food. The cannabis is Belize is awful though. Cheap, but awful. I paid $20 USD for a brown paper lunch bag full.
So, CR, on your break, we could sure go for so real estate conference quotes from the credible sources.
For a nice academic explanation of the economics of looting institutions backed by the govt., check out this classic paper by Akerlof (Nobel prize winner).
Starts on page 232
Explorations in pragmatic economics ... - Google Books
Sorry, but I have to ask: did you figure this out all by yourself?
OK, I definitely deserve that. But I was shocked at his bottom call today nonetheless.
so the really fun thing about FDIC insurance is that the FDIC is mandate via congressional regulation to have a coverage ratio of 1.10 of all deposits ensured. prior to IMB going down FDIC had a coverage ratio of 1.19 percent. The stated goal for the FDIC is 1.25 percent. After IMB went down, the coverage ratio dropped below 1.10 percent in the FDIC fund
so after IMB went down, the FDIC had to raise premiums charged to banks for FDIC insurance on accounts. If WAMU depletes the fund further, not only will the FDIC have a serious blow to their fund but they will have to raise premiums dramatically to try and replenish the fund. As each bank fails the FDIC will have to keep raising premiums, destroying profitability of the remaining banks.
The FDIC program is the same bullshit money transfer program as Social Security and many other govt programs. There is no fund dedicated to insurance if you have to raising premiums to get to the 1.10 targe =)
LMAO.....FDIC insurance coverage is worthless. It is just a quick fix program that like all insurance only is valid for one off events, not systemic events.