If I weren't afraid of sounding cynical, I'd say there's a new career in mass marketing and environmental crimes for all those out-of-work mortgage bottom-feeders. So I'll just think it instead.
If I weren't afraid of sounding callous, I'd laugh my butt off at that. So I'll just giggle softly to myself a bit, instead.
why do they announce the exact crimes theyre no longer enforcing?
Actually, that list sounds like smoke to me. Does anybody remember the last major FBI bust for price-fixing?
And "wire fraud" and "mail fraud" are never the original crimes investigated; those are the charges for a whole slew of financial crimes, including mortgage fraud, as it happens. You investigate some sleazy RE transfer and end up charging wire fraud because settlement money is wired across state lines, and that takes it from a state crime to a federal crime.
So I think they aren't really announcing crimes they're no longer investigating.
I don't think there is a surge in mortgage fraud. I'll bet the % fraudulent in 2008 is a small fraction of what it was in 2006.
I have a funny feeling it's now important because people who bought MBS are looking to stick the originators with bad loans where they can find fraud. It the originators are still around, the bondholders (or bond insurers) might recover some money.
I am reading between the lines on this comment, I am assuming he was "taken advantage of". If only he had prayed and listend to the man upstairs, maybe he could have avoided this. Or maybe the man upstairs was too busy:
Every pastor should have somebody professional a real estate attorney, for example handle loans and real estate deals, he said Wednesday.
We did not, said Fisher, who has led the 60-member church since 1980.
Last year the hot topic at the OTS was the Bank Secrecy Act, i.e., money laundering. So everyone was brought up to speed, both compliance and S&S. One very high ranking examiner I know was threatened with loss of his job should any money laundering schemes go undetected on his assignments. Meanwhile asset quality was falling off a cliff. Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
Did I mention the waste of time and resources cross training compliance and S&S examiners, and requiring each to pass the others commissioning exam? Again, Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
I don't think there is a surge in mortgage fraud. I'll bet the % fraudulent in 2008 is a small fraction of what it was in 2006.
There will be as much fraud in 2008 as 2006. It will just be a slightly different kind of fraud. Exit "cash back purchases," enter "foreclosure rescues."
After having read the comments the other day to CR's post on "buy and bail," in which nearly everyone defended it, I'd say the social rationalizations for fraud are still alive and well. People who got into their loans by lying about their income will have no compunction getting out by lying about occupancy.
Nonetheless, the FBI won't be going after that nickel and dime stuff. I'm sure they're looking at the organized straw buyer/equity skimmer rings.
It's a bit late to go after mortgage fraud now. Most of the fraud ended a year or so ago when credit began to tighten. There was a lot of crime going on during the height of the bubble, but now that lenders are actually scrutinizing the loans the scope for malfeasance has hugely vanished.
It's no coincidence that all the fraud in recent years is coming to the surface now, seeing as how price appreciation is no longer bailing everyone out.
By the way....the Feds are going after the money through asset seizure. They could care less about time served...they'll all get probation anyway. But they'll be seizing alot of houses, money, cars, etc.
I've seen a couple of foreclosed condo complexes that look like they could easily be converted into minimum security prisons. Looks like somebody's got an old hospital in Bakersfield that might work, too.
People these days just aren't very imaginative. Back in the S&L bust days we were always able to find creative uses for commercial REO.
"But they'll be seizing alot of houses, money, cars, etc."
Average Joe | 06.12.08 - 12:10 pm |
A lot of this cash was moved offshore or it was converted into assets that could be moved offshore. Some fraud will get found out but it'll be a drop in the bucket.
Ft. Myers TV stations have had a couple of stories about fraud on the local news. Most of the people involved has already left the US.
There would also be a lucrative career for many former subprime mortgage brokers as locksmiths. The industry is booming with all the abandoned properties.
All they would need is an appreciation for hard work and a clean criminal record...oops, nevermind.
I don't think the FBI should do a diversion of this scale. Price fixing, marketing, and environmental crimes are very serious and can't be ignored. The FBI needs a major expansion of resources to fight mortgage fraud; Obama has been pushing for this since 2006 and if he gets elected presumably we'll get it.
Most of the people involved has already left the US.
I don't think so. I think the FBI can pretty much throw a dart at a map in most metropolitan areas and find evidence of fraud. But I wonder which types of fraud they're going to be pursuing? If it's the most bang for the buck, they'll be looking for fraud "rings". The only problem will be maintaining focus once they start kicking over the rocks and seeing what scurries out.
Oooops, there is at least one more problem, the "turf" wars as they argue with the state attorneys and local DA's.
The racketeering code: 18 US Code 1962 allows the govt to seize assets used in and derived from criminal conspiracies. I believe a great deal of mortgage fraud qualifies.
People these days just aren't very imaginative. Back in the S&L bust days we were always able to find creative uses for commercial REO.
LOL! Yeah, I had that tried on me more than once, so I know where you're coming from. We sometimes feigned gullibility and looked the other way, but after a couple of exams it always came to "book it as direct investment and charge off 20% annually".
I wonder if they are lowering their thresholds, too. In the past, you could have a slam-dunk case of fraud and have it ready to hand over on a silver platter, but unless it involved $1M+, the FBI just wouldn't take it up.
FBI agents despise working on white collar crime cases, and the justice department hates prosecuting them. Both much prefer going after bank robbers, kidnappers, drug lords, etc.
In my personal experience I don't know of a single white collar criminal who got more prison time than man hours put into developing and prosecuting the case.
Wow, they just decided to devote more resources? Amazing. I was writing letters to our board of realtors in 2005 complaining about the obvious fraud going on. Houses selling way over asking, with the asking price upped 15-30% in the mls AFTER the sale. No one cared. It was right there, for anyone to see. Our board allowed it continue. (This is the Southland Regional Board, BTW). All they had to do to make fraud a bit harder was not allow MLS list prices to be changed upward when reporting a sale. How hard is that? Why would you ever allow it? The one and only reason to raise an asking price when entering escrow is to fool the lender so the buyer can get a big chunk of cash back.
Perhaps they can go through the old MLS listings and pull up the price changes. I'd love for the re agents to get a phone call from the FBI. I emailed a few of them at the time to ask what the hell they were doing. They acted very insulted that I would insinuate any illicit activity. Needless to say, the home sales I questioned have all been through foreclosure since.
Nice to see the mkt up and of course The PPT doesn't exist, but, the speculation in whatever form is not related to the fact that customers are taking cash out of the bank! The likely probability that people will not return and that future business will be highly limited is something that stock manipulation can not undo, unless these forces of speculation are willing to put their own rewards back into WAMU and hold long term.......not gonna happen and you can't stop the tide from falling!
I've seen a couple of foreclosed condo complexes that look like they could easily be converted into minimum security prisons.
Why the conditional Tanta? They aalready look like detention facilities to me and most likely are occupied by people under house arrest of a sort already. Besides, the Maricopa County (AZ) Sheriff always has room for more. No need to maintain all that excess housing.
Seriously, as long as Casey Serin walks around free the FBI will continue to be encouraging more fraud than it pursues.
FBI agents despise working on white collar crime cases
12,000 agents? Then 240 of them probably have personal experience. They can start the work from home.
Hell, some of them are going to have parents or siblings who can show them some cases. Maybe it'll get personal.
...I don't think there is a surge in mortgage fraud.
There's a lot of fraud perpetrated prior to 2008 that's becoming apparent. I think lenders are going to more aggressive going forward addressing criminal behaviour than in the past.
The 26 field offices were told to temporarily suspend opening new cases dealing with price fixing, mass marketing, wire fraud, mail fraud and environmental crimes
Price fixing, 6% commissions.
Mass marketing, refinancing mills.
Wire fraud, cash back at close.
Mail fraud, title and escrow junk fees.
So, it looks like the FBI wasn't doing those things anyway, no loss there.
That brings us to the final category. Environmental crimes. How many of you can point to multiple examples of developments being approved in your municipality in recent years over the objections of neighbors, environmentalists, traffic advocates, preservationists, farmers, etc? That's right, all of you.
Seems the FBI has taken a cue from the Fed. Rather than go after crime it is more important to combat the appearance of crime and manage crime expectations.
You don't really think they'd get the HUD do you? Back when I had closings to do, we wouldn't get the package until the afternoon of the day the closing was to happen.
If we were lucky we got it in the morning. If we were unlucky we got it late in the afternoon, and had to get the cash to close the next day, or overestimate, for the cashier's check and give the money back.
If the FBI doesn't like to work on white collar crimes, then I would be more than happy to do it on commission.
Because I don't understand the whole relationship between the feds and the lender, I'm not sure if the False Claims Act applies. The FCA allows third parties to sue on behalf of the federal government for fraud committed against the federal government. The law has been around for over a hundred years, but recently became vogue in Medicare and Medicaid fraud when the largest drug stores where selling generics and billing name brand. One temp pharmacist filed suit against 3 different drugstores; after the 30% commission, he walked away with about $45M.
It would seem that procuring a FHA-secured loan should qualify.
Funny if you think about it. F D Raines (Ex CEO of Fannie) walked away with ~ $400 million (it is true he paid back $20 million), but the FBI should go after Joe Six Pack the mortgage broker, who is now back working at Seven-Eleven.
These FBI investigations are a diversion. The reason: to portray banks as fraud "victims" instead of co-conspirators. I think the FBI's resources would be better spent investigating distributors of CDOs and such.
Hot damn...I've been waiting for an opportunity to fill in that smelly, mosquito ridden swamp behind me. Round one...RoundUp, Round two...dirt. Round three...sell the sucker!!!
Golly, you mean our laissez faire government, that has never seen a fraudulent business not good enough to throw money at, and that never managed to see any fraudulent business practices, or dangers to the economy, in the lending orgasm of the last 7 years, is 'diverting resources' to seek out small fry con-men. Gee what a surprise.
I thought the free market did everything best. How come all those oh so capable, and extremely rich, banks, can't manage to identify mortgage fraud on their own?
There only five years late!
why do they announce the exact crimes theyre no longer enforcing? pretty dumb
Now price fixing, if only NAR could figure out a way to apply that to housing!
Who cares about the environment?
If I weren't afraid of sounding callous, I'd laugh my butt off at that. So I'll just giggle softly to myself a bit, instead.
Maybe they can go after the mortgage fraudsters taking down houses of worship?
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why do they announce the exact crimes theyre no longer enforcing?
Actually, that list sounds like smoke to me. Does anybody remember the last major FBI bust for price-fixing?
And "wire fraud" and "mail fraud" are never the original crimes investigated; those are the charges for a whole slew of financial crimes, including mortgage fraud, as it happens. You investigate some sleazy RE transfer and end up charging wire fraud because settlement money is wired across state lines, and that takes it from a state crime to a federal crime.
So I think they aren't really announcing crimes they're no longer investigating.
Comforting to know that the nation's top police is so reactive and has such short attention spans.
I don't think there is a surge in mortgage fraud. I'll bet the % fraudulent in 2008 is a small fraction of what it was in 2006.
I have a funny feeling it's now important because people who bought MBS are looking to stick the originators with bad loans where they can find fraud. It the originators are still around, the bondholders (or bond insurers) might recover some money.
What mortgage fraud, crispy? It sounds like an over-reaching fool is heading up the church.
It was ordered by Paulson to scare people into not walking away from thier mortgage.
The IRS will soon announce a program to audit all tax reports of people that walk away from their homes. That would do it for me!
I am reading between the lines on this comment, I am assuming he was "taken advantage of". If only he had prayed and listend to the man upstairs, maybe he could have avoided this. Or maybe the man upstairs was too busy:
Every pastor should have somebody professional a real estate attorney, for example handle loans and real estate deals, he said Wednesday.
We did not, said Fisher, who has led the 60-member church since 1980.
Last year the hot topic at the OTS was the Bank Secrecy Act, i.e., money laundering. So everyone was brought up to speed, both compliance and S&S. One very high ranking examiner I know was threatened with loss of his job should any money laundering schemes go undetected on his assignments. Meanwhile asset quality was falling off a cliff. Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
Did I mention the waste of time and resources cross training compliance and S&S examiners, and requiring each to pass the others commissioning exam? Again, Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
"Does anybody remember the last major FBI bust for price-fixing?"
The Justice Antitrust division had a lame case against NAR, in violation of Section 1 of the Sherman Act.
Is there anyway a homebuyer can really know what cost he/she will pay for mortgage closing fees?
I don't think there is a surge in mortgage fraud. I'll bet the % fraudulent in 2008 is a small fraction of what it was in 2006.
There will be as much fraud in 2008 as 2006. It will just be a slightly different kind of fraud. Exit "cash back purchases," enter "foreclosure rescues."
After having read the comments the other day to CR's post on "buy and bail," in which nearly everyone defended it, I'd say the social rationalizations for fraud are still alive and well. People who got into their loans by lying about their income will have no compunction getting out by lying about occupancy.
Nonetheless, the FBI won't be going after that nickel and dime stuff. I'm sure they're looking at the organized straw buyer/equity skimmer rings.
As someone who has spent considerable time doing criminal investigations, I say this is like shooting fish in a barrel for the feds.
All you need to do is type "housing bubble blogs" into google, then go through the archives of all the blogs. The work has already been done.
It's a bit late to go after mortgage fraud now. Most of the fraud ended a year or so ago when credit began to tighten. There was a lot of crime going on during the height of the bubble, but now that lenders are actually scrutinizing the loans the scope for malfeasance has hugely vanished.
It's no coincidence that all the fraud in recent years is coming to the surface now, seeing as how price appreciation is no longer bailing everyone out.
Is there anyway a homebuyer can really know what cost he/she will pay for mortgage closing fees?
Request a copy of the HUD-1 Settlement Statement 24 hours prior to closing. (RESPA requires the lender to provide it.) Then, read it. Both pages.
By the way....the Feds are going after the money through asset seizure. They could care less about time served...they'll all get probation anyway. But they'll be seizing alot of houses, money, cars, etc.
Crispy, what got my attention was the $500K loan taken out to purchase a $375K building in the hope of starting a day care business.
So where do we put all these fraudsters?
Hot Tip - Raid the Countrywide office in callabasas, ca
This will be revenue generation for the government, when they need it most! After all we know that tax receipts are down.
Look at how profitable the "drug war" has been.
No biggie, I hear suicide is painless.
So where do we put all these fraudsters?
I've seen a couple of foreclosed condo complexes that look like they could easily be converted into minimum security prisons. Looks like somebody's got an old hospital in Bakersfield that might work, too.
People these days just aren't very imaginative. Back in the S&L bust days we were always able to find creative uses for commercial REO.
Looks like that "Suicide is Painless" guy might just be on the loose.
The article requested is no longer available.
"But they'll be seizing alot of houses, money, cars, etc."
Average Joe | 06.12.08 - 12:10 pm |
A lot of this cash was moved offshore or it was converted into assets that could be moved offshore. Some fraud will get found out but it'll be a drop in the bucket.
Ft. Myers TV stations have had a couple of stories about fraud on the local news. Most of the people involved has already left the US.
Chris
There would also be a lucrative career for many former subprime mortgage brokers as locksmiths. The industry is booming with all the abandoned properties.
All they would need is an appreciation for hard work and a clean criminal record...oops, nevermind.
Will we finally see Casey Serin frogmarched in front of national tv? How I'd love a youtube clip of that!
I don't think the FBI should do a diversion of this scale. Price fixing, marketing, and environmental crimes are very serious and can't be ignored. The FBI needs a major expansion of resources to fight mortgage fraud; Obama has been pushing for this since 2006 and if he gets elected presumably we'll get it.
The entertainment value of convictions would be priceless.
As a disgruntled renter/saver, I would actually cough up money on pay-per-view to watch it.
Most of the people involved has already left the US.
I don't think so. I think the FBI can pretty much throw a dart at a map in most metropolitan areas and find evidence of fraud. But I wonder which types of fraud they're going to be pursuing? If it's the most bang for the buck, they'll be looking for fraud "rings". The only problem will be maintaining focus once they start kicking over the rocks and seeing what scurries out.
Oooops, there is at least one more problem, the "turf" wars as they argue with the state attorneys and local DA's.
The racketeering code: 18 US Code 1962 allows the govt to seize assets used in and derived from criminal conspiracies. I believe a great deal of mortgage fraud qualifies.
Yeah, he can make Laura the Fraud Czar.
People these days just aren't very imaginative. Back in the S&L bust days we were always able to find creative uses for commercial REO.
LOL! Yeah, I had that tried on me more than once, so I know where you're coming from. We sometimes feigned gullibility and looked the other way, but after a couple of exams it always came to "book it as direct investment and charge off 20% annually".
I wonder if they are lowering their thresholds, too. In the past, you could have a slam-dunk case of fraud and have it ready to hand over on a silver platter, but unless it involved $1M+, the FBI just wouldn't take it up.
Good news is I think Casey qualifies either way!
FBI agents despise working on white collar crime cases, and the justice department hates prosecuting them. Both much prefer going after bank robbers, kidnappers, drug lords, etc.
In my personal experience I don't know of a single white collar criminal who got more prison time than man hours put into developing and prosecuting the case.
mash theme lyrics
Wow, they just decided to devote more resources? Amazing. I was writing letters to our board of realtors in 2005 complaining about the obvious fraud going on. Houses selling way over asking, with the asking price upped 15-30% in the mls AFTER the sale. No one cared. It was right there, for anyone to see. Our board allowed it continue. (This is the Southland Regional Board, BTW). All they had to do to make fraud a bit harder was not allow MLS list prices to be changed upward when reporting a sale. How hard is that? Why would you ever allow it? The one and only reason to raise an asking price when entering escrow is to fool the lender so the buyer can get a big chunk of cash back.
Perhaps they can go through the old MLS listings and pull up the price changes. I'd love for the re agents to get a phone call from the FBI. I emailed a few of them at the time to ask what the hell they were doing. They acted very insulted that I would insinuate any illicit activity. Needless to say, the home sales I questioned have all been through foreclosure since.
If the FBI doesn't like to work on white collar crimes, then I would be more than happy to do it on commission.
Let's get free enterprise involved!
Re: temporarily suspend opening new cases dealing with price fixing, mass marketing, wire fraud, mail fraud and environmental crimes
Go for it man, no one is watching!!!
Re: WaMu Failing.
Nice to see the mkt up and of course The PPT doesn't exist, but, the speculation in whatever form is not related to the fact that customers are taking cash out of the bank! The likely probability that people will not return and that future business will be highly limited is something that stock manipulation can not undo, unless these forces of speculation are willing to put their own rewards back into WAMU and hold long term.......not gonna happen and you can't stop the tide from falling!
I've seen a couple of foreclosed condo complexes that look like they could easily be converted into minimum security prisons.
Why the conditional Tanta? They aalready look like detention facilities to me and most likely are occupied by people under house arrest of a sort already. Besides, the Maricopa County (AZ) Sheriff always has room for more. No need to maintain all that excess housing.
Seriously, as long as Casey Serin walks around free the FBI will continue to be encouraging more fraud than it pursues.
FBI agents despise working on white collar crime cases
12,000 agents? Then 240 of them probably have personal experience. They can start the work from home.
Hell, some of them are going to have parents or siblings who can show them some cases. Maybe it'll get personal.
But they'll be seizing alot of houses, money, cars, etc.
Lets hope that none of the seized homes are secured by GSE mortgages.
12,000 agents? damn, that's a lot of g-men chasing yesterday's crimes and drawing chalk lines.
...I don't think there is a surge in mortgage fraud.
There's a lot of fraud perpetrated prior to 2008 that's becoming apparent. I think lenders are going to more aggressive going forward addressing criminal behaviour than in the past.
The 26 field offices were told to temporarily suspend opening new cases dealing with price fixing, mass marketing, wire fraud, mail fraud and environmental crimes
Price fixing, 6% commissions.
Mass marketing, refinancing mills.
Wire fraud, cash back at close.
Mail fraud, title and escrow junk fees.
So, it looks like the FBI wasn't doing those things anyway, no loss there.
That brings us to the final category. Environmental crimes. How many of you can point to multiple examples of developments being approved in your municipality in recent years over the objections of neighbors, environmentalists, traffic advocates, preservationists, farmers, etc? That's right, all of you.
Seems the FBI has taken a cue from the Fed. Rather than go after crime it is more important to combat the appearance of crime and manage crime expectations.
crispy&cole writes: I am reading between the lines on this comment, I am assuming he [the Reverend] was "taken advantage of".
Oh really? From the article:
Dunstan [the lender] said United Pentecostal Church of Taft made payments for about three or four months before things began to sour.
Checks arrived with mismatched numeric and written amounts but couldnt be cashed, Dunstan said. Then payments stopped altogether.
Not quite a first-payment default, but sending checks that couldn't be cashed makes me mistrust the good Reverend's bona-fides.
Tanta at 12:09:
You don't really think they'd get the HUD do you? Back when I had closings to do, we wouldn't get the package until the afternoon of the day the closing was to happen.
If we were lucky we got it in the morning. If we were unlucky we got it late in the afternoon, and had to get the cash to close the next day, or overestimate, for the cashier's check and give the money back.
If the FBI doesn't like to work on white collar crimes, then I would be more than happy to do it on commission.
Because I don't understand the whole relationship between the feds and the lender, I'm not sure if the False Claims Act applies. The FCA allows third parties to sue on behalf of the federal government for fraud committed against the federal government. The law has been around for over a hundred years, but recently became vogue in Medicare and Medicaid fraud when the largest drug stores where selling generics and billing name brand. One temp pharmacist filed suit against 3 different drugstores; after the 30% commission, he walked away with about $45M.
It would seem that procuring a FHA-secured loan should qualify.
Funny if you think about it. F D Raines (Ex CEO of Fannie) walked away with ~ $400 million (it is true he paid back $20 million), but the FBI should go after Joe Six Pack the mortgage broker, who is now back working at Seven-Eleven.
The administration was never big on the environment anyways, so this is almost like a benefit for them
These FBI investigations are a diversion. The reason: to portray banks as fraud "victims" instead of co-conspirators. I think the FBI's resources would be better spent investigating distributors of CDOs and such.
Hot damn...I've been waiting for an opportunity to fill in that smelly, mosquito ridden swamp behind me. Round one...RoundUp, Round two...dirt. Round three...sell the sucker!!!
Golly, you mean our laissez faire government, that has never seen a fraudulent business not good enough to throw money at, and that never managed to see any fraudulent business practices, or dangers to the economy, in the lending orgasm of the last 7 years, is 'diverting resources' to seek out small fry con-men. Gee what a surprise.
I thought the free market did everything best. How come all those oh so capable, and extremely rich, banks, can't manage to identify mortgage fraud on their own?