It's like that first report initially reported is all they aim at, and make it as misleading as possible to try to bring in buyers.
Then later "revise", etc, which never makes any major headline. First report = misleading false major headline. Revised = dissapears and never a headline.
What would happen if a major new source like NBC news or the NYTimes etc reported the systematic distortions of the NAR?
The housing market in New Jersey really is beginning to show signs of improvement, so that is still valid, he said.
Ha! It's tanking, but it's still improving!
At least the NAR owned up to their error. The US government routinely lies and distorts CPI, unemployment and GDP numbers, and I've yet to read a retraction.
OT - WCI communities looks like it's a goner. They've formed a "restructuring committee" to evaluate "strategic alternatives", which I am guessing means they need to find a buyer for the company by August, when a major debt becomes callable by their banks. Failure to find a buyer likely means a chapter 11 filing.
"We would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling kids."
Kidbuck, are we supposed to calibrate known liars as diversity? The NAR only cares about generating commissions. I bet quite a few of this summer's stats will need "refinement."
The sloppiness of the NAR is simply reflective of the sloppiness that exists throughout our financial markets.
People in positions with decision making authority dont know what they're doing.
That explains the subprime market, the rating agencies, leveraged corporate credit, etc.
As a loyal AT&T customer, I was grossly overbilled for LD charges to Prague several months back. I did make the calls but their tarrif billed me out at over $2 a minute. Tsk, just a small $500 error and easily correctable. Wrong...Several months, 3 hour long telephone conversations later and yesterday I get a disconnect notice because I owe $534. This morning I get a computerized call from AT&T saying that I need to pay $509 or risk being disconnected. So from yesterday to this morning, my billl went down $25?
That's when I doubled up on my blood pressure meds and handed the phone to the wife. Supposedly it has been adjusted. We'll see.
My point is that a lot of mistakes are being made because of incompetence. Companies try to 'save' their margins by cutting corners. When margins in business return to the mean, we'll see that the S&P was really selling at 35X earnings in 2007.
US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson predicted today that the US housing correction is likely to continue into 2009, and repeated that the housing market is still the biggest downside risk to the health of the US economy.
Neil,
"... are we supposed to calibrate known liars as diversity?" In today's world, amongst certain large segments of our population, it's not a lie if you sincerely present it, and stick with your story, no matter how stupid. I was once fired from the University of Arizona because I wrote that my employee was lying. My boss, the department CFO, insisted that I change the wording to "prevaricating," as this was the politically acceptable word in those quarters. It eventually snowballed into an inquisition where I was asked straight faced by the head of HR, "Do you think all (particular favored minority) are liars?"
So, yes - because I can't afford to lose my present job -and because I deal with these situations everyday - I do calibrate for known liars.
The NAR is just like any investment bank or anyone else with a stake in the game. They'll push fraudulent numbers as far as absolutely possible until they get caught. Then kicking and screaming, within a culture of deceit and obfuscation they'll be-grudgingly and most conservatively re-state the numbers...all the while ensuring the holes in their opaque shield that permitted their discovery are plugged for next time.
And it was a Trustee sale, and I didn't realize that bank/lenders could discount the price from what is owed. If anybody would want to shed some light on the headline, I would be glad for the info.
"My point is that a lot of mistakes are being made because of incompetence. "
I think it's intentional. Recently one of the airlines had a credit card promotion. Clearly stated in the offer was a waiver of annual fees for one year. I signed up. A week later I go to the account website to find an annual fee billed to my account.
Called the company, lady says she can't do anything about it except offer me a free year next year. After explaining that the ad clearly waived the fee, she asks if I want to speak to a manager. What good will that do, I ask. She says, you sure you don't want to speak to a manager? Ok what the heck. Manager comes online and immediately credits my account, no hassle.
I think that many companies are billing crap, hoping they don't get caught, then adjusting under duress when they get nabbed. They are in serious cash flow hell, and it isn't just credit card companies.
I got news for them. Next year the card goes in the trash. If this company is even in business.
"If honest people were running this country
News articles would read like this:
Inflation skyrocketing, credit conditions mild
Government data reported that inflation has been skyrocketing in recent months. Last month, inflation was over 12% led by rising fuel and good prices.
In the meanwhile, the credit conditions remain perfect. Although a few fraudulent Wall street companies such as Lehman bros., Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley collapsed last week, 'core credit condition' measured by financial conditions of Conservative Credit Union and Rock Solid Bank showed continuing strength."
Joe Six Pack,
I think you are on to something here. Not just credit cards either. It got me thinking. When was the last time a billing was ever in my favor. Can't think of one for the last several years. It must be systemic.
The reason I protested the AT&T bill, other than moral outrage, was that I wondered how many other poor smucks would never notice and just pay.
"how many other poor smucks would never notice and just pay."
That was almost me. If I hadn't taken the trouble to visit the account online, I would have received a statement with the excess charge. Trying to get something fixed after the statement's release is a major pain.
Wanna see inflation in action? Visit the local food store and price out Wesson oil. My wife used to buy the 5 gallon variety for the fryer, but the cost went from around 12-15 bucks to 27. Even the smaller one gallon has more than doubled in price. And that's just one item.
At the rate things are going, I expect the well worn path of strikes, protests and riots to start soon.
Ross said: "The reason I protested the AT&T bill, other than moral outrage, was that I wondered how many other poor smucks would never notice and just pay."
I think a lot of people fall into the poor schmuck category. Most people I talk to get their bills in the mail and just reach reflexively for their checkbook. How many people keep their credit card receipts and balance the statement?
I recently found that the power company was reading the wrong meter for my condo. You can't imagine what an ordeal it has been (and continues to be) to get that straightened out.
People who don't pay attention get taken advantage of - whether the taking is intentional or not.
I'm sure bond guy will have an explanation that puts this all in perspective -- only the dim bulbs went into vegetable oil production, or something like that.
"At the rate things are going, I expect the well worn path of strikes, protests and riots to start soon."
I went to the inauguration of the new chancellor at my university, and the service worker's union showed up to protest at the reception, which was held outdoors in one of the athletic fields. A single yellow rope marked off the edge of the reception. The demonstrators stormed right up to the rope and stopped. They shouted and chanted and waved their banners as the academics ate their mini-quiches and organic strawberries from little plates on the "safe" side of the rope and watched with mild interest.
Nobody felt threatened, because they knew the demonstrators would not cross that yellow rope. It was all very kabuki and symbolic. The campus cops trotted up to patrol their side of the line, but on the other side a line of union monitors also stood guard to make sure that none of their protesters got out of hand.
The union's pissed because because they've been working without a contract for a year, their wages don't keep up with inflation, and UC pays less than even the community college down the road for comparable work.
I actually don't know how they get by around here on the money they make. And if it gets to the point where they can't get by at all -- and it might -- some day, they're going to cross that rope. Because nothing else will work.
"My point is that a lot of mistakes are being made because of incompetence. "
I used to think the same thing. Then I noticed that pretty much ALL such mistakes are not in my favor. Look at all the "mistakes" your health insurer makes. How many times did it cost you money?
LOL. Symantec notified me that my subscription to Windows 98 LiveUpdate (for antivirus protection) needed to be renewed. I paid for the renewal, but when I tried use it I discovered that they no longer support Windows 98.
Then they sold me a newer version that did support Windows 98, but turned out to be not compatible with my corresponding version of Outlook Express.
After seven lengthy calls with their support team in India, I gave up and removed all Symantec products from my computer. They billed me $9.95 apiece for the calls.
Deliberate or incompetent? I don't know, but Symantec used to be a great company.
When you start seeing more hillbillies on the inbound side of the interstate than on the outbound, it should give you a sign that the SHF point is approaching in urbanville.
As was discussed earlier this week, there is a complete lack of rigor in any of the data published by the NAR, as well as your local realtors.
There is no oversight, nor accountability in the industry. Your friendly neighborhood realtor has stolen the futures (if not bankrupted) of hundreds of thousands of young families and other buyers who believed the hype over the past five years (those who actually put their own money down, not the fraudsters who used the banks' money). Yet, they continue to lure in buyers with their false statistics, unabetted. Unbelievable.
James Bednar: +4% is WAY OFF
NAR: no response
James Bednar: +4% is WAY OFF
NAR: no response
James Bednar: +4% is WAY OFF
NAR: no response
James Bednar: +4% is WAY OFF
NAR: Oops, its -30%. Forgot to carry the 1.
Bob Dobbs,
Your poignant vignette is accurate to my mind. I have said often that wage inflation is on the way. We just can't see it yet. Feel it, yes but not yet quantifiable.
I think we are beginning to see Chinese wage inflation...at Walmart.
Windows 98? And I thought I was a Luddite by sticking with XP.
By the time a product is fully beta tested, it's already passe. My major complaint with modern technology.
Saw an article yesterday about pop music artists/listeners returning to vinyl, for the fuller sound. Seems that turntable sales have skyrocketed lately. (I kept and still use mine!)
And it was a Trustee sale, and I didn't realize that bank/lenders could discount the price from what is owed.
The bank or servicer can put whatever bid instructions they want to the title company. It used to be for expediency's sake during the bubble that the instruction were to bid the unpaid principal balance. During the crazy times, the banks were sometimes outbid.
During these bust times, I know of several banks putting in instructions for bids 15% below BPO (broker price opinion -- a drive-by valuation), regardless of amount owed (always much higher). Still, no one is out bidding them at auction (witness the 2.8% number) and then the banks are ending up selling the REO 4 months later for 30%+ below that BPO.
Ross wrote: "The reason I protested the AT&T bill, other than moral outrage, was that I wondered how many other poor smucks would never notice and just pay."
Not vindictiveness?
In 2006, the IRS overcharged for $7.87 for my 2005 returns. I called, followed up by a letter, they agreed and reimbursed me.
In 2007, they let me alone.
In 2008, they overcharged me for $7.87 (same glitch on their part) for the 2007 returns.
Should I pursue it again to protect the public?
Should I get my seven dollars back for the moral satisfaction?
Or should I be cognizant of my hourly rate, and write if off as nuisance?
You make a $50 investment when you buy Symantec software. A home on the other hand costs $500K.
Symantec was attempting to fix a problem on your PC. NAR on the other hand was trying to say there was no problem.
I'm no lawyer but you can probably sue Symantec for your lost time and get back your 27 dollars. Can you give your house back after you made a decision to buy it based on NAR data?
Just common sense could have shown them that the number was an error. I mean, c'mon, that's their business; they know it wasn't adding up. It's not like the number was just a little off. It was night and day difference.
This was intentional bullshit just to get positive numbers out in the media. I wonder how many realtors are now calling back their clients who got into contract lately to warn them of the new numbers, just in case their clients decided to buy now based on the wrong numbers out in the media?
What a joke those pricks are. I'm just glad most of those cocky bastards are now losing their houses too. Most of them got in over their heads with their BMW's and Jaguars while the market was hot. Don't know whose worse; realtors or mortgage brokers?
P_Rank, you should go after the money. If you do not address the issue, you will get dinged the next year and next year. Just speaking from experience.
Have been reading NJ REreport for several years now. Excellent blog that, like this one, does a better job than the press at calling the industry's bluff - Congratulations James!!
Ross, I had a similar problem with a LD call (Japan) and AT&T several years ago. It turned out to be a billing error on their part.
They made all kinds of threats to me. Like destroying my credit (over their own admitted error). I asked them how did that work. I paid cash for my car, I wasn't even considering buying another house, didn't use credit cards and didn't have a job as I was retired. Just how would this hurt me?
I finally told them to come to the house, rip out the phone lines, they could rot. Only then did they do some double-checking, realized they were wrong, corrected my bill.
"After seven lengthy calls with their support team in India, I gave up and removed all Symantec products from my computer. They billed me $9.95 apiece for the calls." -unirealist
I also had a bad experience with Symantec except they had a bug with Vista that needed to be patched(the flipside of your troubles). Good luck on getting any money back from them using the procedure on their website if you are unhappy before the warranty expires. After attempting that numerous times, I then decided to try to get the software functioning instead and to save money I used email with tech support from India. We bantered back and forth for nearly a MONTH, downloading files, uninstalling software, documenting what I was doing with screenshots, etc. Eventually got it working.
One thing to definitely watch for if you are considering buying their software online: Be very careful not to allow them to automatically charge a new subscription to your credit card when that screen shows up. The whole experience reminded me of an impersonally vicious version of Columbia Record Club from the early 80s.
"probably has some impact on the national data too"
Maybe all of the national data needs a closer look as well.
I'm just sayin...
Forgot to carry my 1. WTF??? Off by 30% that is just straight fraud.
" a mere Bagatelle,my dear"
NOW it's a great time to buy in NJ
This is just a casual, mistaken screw-up, as opposed to all the intentional outright lying they normally do.
"Never a better time to buy!"
I want Yun's head on a pike.
It's like that first report initially reported is all they aim at, and make it as misleading as possible to try to bring in buyers.
Then later "revise", etc, which never makes any major headline. First report = misleading false major headline. Revised = dissapears and never a headline.
What would happen if a major new source like NBC news or the NYTimes etc reported the systematic distortions of the NAR?
I mean it's intentional. Entirely calculated and intended, every month.
And the article in my paper this morning said that 'the numbers always tell the truth.' KansasCity.com | 404
Thanks CR!
All the best
You people are so judgemental. Celebrate diversity. Just because NAR has different culture and values from y'all doesn't make them wrong.
The housing market in New Jersey really is beginning to show signs of improvement, so that is still valid, he said.
Ha! It's tanking, but it's still improving!
At least the NAR owned up to their error. The US government routinely lies and distorts CPI, unemployment and GDP numbers, and I've yet to read a retraction.
OT - WCI communities looks like it's a goner. They've formed a "restructuring committee" to evaluate "strategic alternatives", which I am guessing means they need to find a buyer for the company by August, when a major debt becomes callable by their banks. Failure to find a buyer likely means a chapter 11 filing.
<a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS213370+13-Jun-2008+PNW20080613>WCI
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazard_Freres_&_Co.>Lazard Freres & Co.
And they would have gotten away with is, too, if it weren't for those pesky kids and their blog.
At least the NAR owned up to their error.
LOL. Owned up hahaha.
They got caught and issued the retraction before the lawsuits began.
I'll wager a lot of Rating Agencies also made slight 'errors' which they are scrambling to correct now.
Completely OT, but I just heard this boom-boom noise and it was the sonic booms of the shuttle landing. Ah, life in space coast Fla (weekends).
Is this the "cockroach theory" at work here, or merely a single state aberration??? THANKS! JB
Hey Nemo - was it you who had WCI in the bankruptcy pool CR did last year?
Looks like you're gonna be a winner.
Here at WaMu we have have no money. -$000,000,000,000!
uhmmmm....See nothing but zeros here! We are fine!
CORRECTION:
-$3000,000,000,000.00
screwed the pooch on this one, eh?
I will never use a realtor, a real estate agent maybe but never a realtor.
Forgot to carry the 1....
From what I understand, Einstein did the same thing, once.
Once.
Overheard at NAR headquarters:
"We would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling kids."
Kidbuck, are we supposed to calibrate known liars as diversity? The NAR only cares about generating commissions. I bet quite a few of this summer's stats will need "refinement."
Got Popcorn?
Neil
The sloppiness of the NAR is simply reflective of the sloppiness that exists throughout our financial markets.
People in positions with decision making authority dont know what they're doing.
That explains the subprime market, the rating agencies, leveraged corporate credit, etc.
It goes deeper than distortions.
As a loyal AT&T customer, I was grossly overbilled for LD charges to Prague several months back. I did make the calls but their tarrif billed me out at over $2 a minute. Tsk, just a small $500 error and easily correctable. Wrong...Several months, 3 hour long telephone conversations later and yesterday I get a disconnect notice because I owe $534. This morning I get a computerized call from AT&T saying that I need to pay $509 or risk being disconnected. So from yesterday to this morning, my billl went down $25?
That's when I doubled up on my blood pressure meds and handed the phone to the wife. Supposedly it has been adjusted. We'll see.
My point is that a lot of mistakes are being made because of incompetence. Companies try to 'save' their margins by cutting corners. When margins in business return to the mean, we'll see that the S&P was really selling at 35X earnings in 2007.
Sorry for the rant. Meds kicking in now.
US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson predicted today that the US housing correction is likely to continue into 2009, and repeated that the housing market is still the biggest downside risk to the health of the US economy.
Business finance news - currency market news - online UK currency markets - financial news - Interactive Investor
Translation only a fool would buy a home now and containment will be delayed until 09 at the earliest.
Neil,
"... are we supposed to calibrate known liars as diversity?" In today's world, amongst certain large segments of our population, it's not a lie if you sincerely present it, and stick with your story, no matter how stupid. I was once fired from the University of Arizona because I wrote that my employee was lying. My boss, the department CFO, insisted that I change the wording to "prevaricating," as this was the politically acceptable word in those quarters. It eventually snowballed into an inquisition where I was asked straight faced by the head of HR, "Do you think all (particular favored minority) are liars?"
So, yes - because I can't afford to lose my present job -and because I deal with these situations everyday - I do calibrate for known liars.
WCI was one of my first option purchases (puts of course).
I'm actually kind of surprised they made it this long.
The NAR is just like any investment bank or anyone else with a stake in the game. They'll push fraudulent numbers as far as absolutely possible until they get caught. Then kicking and screaming, within a culture of deceit and obfuscation they'll be-grudgingly and most conservatively re-state the numbers...all the while ensuring the holes in their opaque shield that permitted their discovery are plugged for next time.
Saw this headline "Inland foreclosure auctions draw more sales as lenders get more flexible about prices"
Inland foreclosure auctions draw more sales as lenders get more flexible about prices | Business | PE.com | Southern California News | News for Inland Southern California
and I thought to myself, well maybe bank/lenders are finally getting it. Then I read the story and saw that of the 25,523 homes that went to auction, there were only 692 that received a bid higher than the lender's opening bid. That's 2.8%, not quite what I would call a sea change in lenders accepting deeper discounts.
And it was a Trustee sale, and I didn't realize that bank/lenders could discount the price from what is owed. If anybody would want to shed some light on the headline, I would be glad for the info.
"My point is that a lot of mistakes are being made because of incompetence. "
I think it's intentional. Recently one of the airlines had a credit card promotion. Clearly stated in the offer was a waiver of annual fees for one year. I signed up. A week later I go to the account website to find an annual fee billed to my account.
Called the company, lady says she can't do anything about it except offer me a free year next year. After explaining that the ad clearly waived the fee, she asks if I want to speak to a manager. What good will that do, I ask. She says, you sure you don't want to speak to a manager? Ok what the heck. Manager comes online and immediately credits my account, no hassle.
I think that many companies are billing crap, hoping they don't get caught, then adjusting under duress when they get nabbed. They are in serious cash flow hell, and it isn't just credit card companies.
I got news for them. Next year the card goes in the trash. If this company is even in business.
central_scrutinizer --
Hey Nemo - was it you who had WCI in the bankruptcy pool CR did last year?
Well, Robert Coté was keeping track. Although there was some disagreement on whether WCI should count at all since it isn't "national".
But sure, I will claim victory anyway.
I had to write this in my blog today -
http://greenscam.blogspot.com
"If honest people were running this country
News articles would read like this:
Inflation skyrocketing, credit conditions mild
Government data reported that inflation has been skyrocketing in recent months. Last month, inflation was over 12% led by rising fuel and good prices.
In the meanwhile, the credit conditions remain perfect. Although a few fraudulent Wall street companies such as Lehman bros., Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley collapsed last week, 'core credit condition' measured by financial conditions of Conservative Credit Union and Rock Solid Bank showed continuing strength."
CAR updated 2008 forecast
I just got my hands on the pdf of the last CAR projection from CAR June 5th luncheon.
Picky, picky, picky...
Joe Six Pack,
I think you are on to something here. Not just credit cards either. It got me thinking. When was the last time a billing was ever in my favor. Can't think of one for the last several years. It must be systemic.
The reason I protested the AT&T bill, other than moral outrage, was that I wondered how many other poor smucks would never notice and just pay.
oops, my bad!
"how many other poor smucks would never notice and just pay."
That was almost me. If I hadn't taken the trouble to visit the account online, I would have received a statement with the excess charge. Trying to get something fixed after the statement's release is a major pain.
Wanna see inflation in action? Visit the local food store and price out Wesson oil. My wife used to buy the 5 gallon variety for the fryer, but the cost went from around 12-15 bucks to 27. Even the smaller one gallon has more than doubled in price. And that's just one item.
At the rate things are going, I expect the well worn path of strikes, protests and riots to start soon.
That's starting with +4%, corrected to -30%.
If not intentional, it will be gross incompetence.
Ross said: "The reason I protested the AT&T bill, other than moral outrage, was that I wondered how many other poor smucks would never notice and just pay."
I think a lot of people fall into the poor schmuck category. Most people I talk to get their bills in the mail and just reach reflexively for their checkbook. How many people keep their credit card receipts and balance the statement?
I recently found that the power company was reading the wrong meter for my condo. You can't imagine what an ordeal it has been (and continues to be) to get that straightened out.
People who don't pay attention get taken advantage of - whether the taking is intentional or not.
OMG!!! Don't tell me we've reached peak Wesson.
I'm sure bond guy will have an explanation that puts this all in perspective -- only the dim bulbs went into vegetable oil production, or something like that.
A Wesson oil scandal? Shades of Billy Sol Estes. He's a legend in these parts.
"At the rate things are going, I expect the well worn path of strikes, protests and riots to start soon."
I went to the inauguration of the new chancellor at my university, and the service worker's union showed up to protest at the reception, which was held outdoors in one of the athletic fields. A single yellow rope marked off the edge of the reception. The demonstrators stormed right up to the rope and stopped. They shouted and chanted and waved their banners as the academics ate their mini-quiches and organic strawberries from little plates on the "safe" side of the rope and watched with mild interest.
Nobody felt threatened, because they knew the demonstrators would not cross that yellow rope. It was all very kabuki and symbolic. The campus cops trotted up to patrol their side of the line, but on the other side a line of union monitors also stood guard to make sure that none of their protesters got out of hand.
The union's pissed because because they've been working without a contract for a year, their wages don't keep up with inflation, and UC pays less than even the community college down the road for comparable work.
I actually don't know how they get by around here on the money they make. And if it gets to the point where they can't get by at all -- and it might -- some day, they're going to cross that rope. Because nothing else will work.
"My point is that a lot of mistakes are being made because of incompetence. "
I used to think the same thing. Then I noticed that pretty much ALL such mistakes are not in my favor. Look at all the "mistakes" your health insurer makes. How many times did it cost you money?
LOL. Symantec notified me that my subscription to Windows 98 LiveUpdate (for antivirus protection) needed to be renewed. I paid for the renewal, but when I tried use it I discovered that they no longer support Windows 98.
Then they sold me a newer version that did support Windows 98, but turned out to be not compatible with my corresponding version of Outlook Express.
After seven lengthy calls with their support team in India, I gave up and removed all Symantec products from my computer. They billed me $9.95 apiece for the calls.
Deliberate or incompetent? I don't know, but Symantec used to be a great company.
Windows 98? And I thought I was a Luddite by sticking with XP.
When you start seeing more hillbillies on the inbound side of the interstate than on the outbound, it should give you a sign that the SHF point is approaching in urbanville.
As was discussed earlier this week, there is a complete lack of rigor in any of the data published by the NAR, as well as your local realtors.
There is no oversight, nor accountability in the industry. Your friendly neighborhood realtor has stolen the futures (if not bankrupted) of hundreds of thousands of young families and other buyers who believed the hype over the past five years (those who actually put their own money down, not the fraudsters who used the banks' money). Yet, they continue to lure in buyers with their false statistics, unabetted. Unbelievable.
James Bednar: +4% is WAY OFF
NAR: no response
James Bednar: +4% is WAY OFF
NAR: no response
James Bednar: +4% is WAY OFF
NAR: no response
James Bednar: +4% is WAY OFF
NAR: Oops, its -30%. Forgot to carry the 1.
Bob Dobbs,
Your poignant vignette is accurate to my mind. I have said often that wage inflation is on the way. We just can't see it yet. Feel it, yes but not yet quantifiable.
I think we are beginning to see Chinese wage inflation...at Walmart.
These clowns would fit in well with the ones at the BLS.
Windows 98? And I thought I was a Luddite by sticking with XP.
By the time a product is fully beta tested, it's already passe. My major complaint with modern technology.
Saw an article yesterday about pop music artists/listeners returning to vinyl, for the fuller sound. Seems that turntable sales have skyrocketed lately. (I kept and still use mine!)
And it was a Trustee sale, and I didn't realize that bank/lenders could discount the price from what is owed.
The bank or servicer can put whatever bid instructions they want to the title company. It used to be for expediency's sake during the bubble that the instruction were to bid the unpaid principal balance. During the crazy times, the banks were sometimes outbid.
During these bust times, I know of several banks putting in instructions for bids 15% below BPO (broker price opinion -- a drive-by valuation), regardless of amount owed (always much higher). Still, no one is out bidding them at auction (witness the 2.8% number) and then the banks are ending up selling the REO 4 months later for 30%+ below that BPO.
Ross wrote: "The reason I protested the AT&T bill, other than moral outrage, was that I wondered how many other poor smucks would never notice and just pay."
Not vindictiveness?
In 2006, the IRS overcharged for $7.87 for my 2005 returns. I called, followed up by a letter, they agreed and reimbursed me.
In 2007, they let me alone.
In 2008, they overcharged me for $7.87 (same glitch on their part) for the 2007 returns.
Should I pursue it again to protect the public?
Should I get my seven dollars back for the moral satisfaction?
Or should I be cognizant of my hourly rate, and write if off as nuisance?
You make a $50 investment when you buy Symantec software. A home on the other hand costs $500K.
Symantec was attempting to fix a problem on your PC. NAR on the other hand was trying to say there was no problem.
I'm no lawyer but you can probably sue Symantec for your lost time and get back your 27 dollars. Can you give your house back after you made a decision to buy it based on NAR data?
Just common sense could have shown them that the number was an error. I mean, c'mon, that's their business; they know it wasn't adding up. It's not like the number was just a little off. It was night and day difference.
This was intentional bullshit just to get positive numbers out in the media. I wonder how many realtors are now calling back their clients who got into contract lately to warn them of the new numbers, just in case their clients decided to buy now based on the wrong numbers out in the media?
What a joke those pricks are. I'm just glad most of those cocky bastards are now losing their houses too. Most of them got in over their heads with their BMW's and Jaguars while the market was hot. Don't know whose worse; realtors or mortgage brokers?
P_Rank, you should go after the money. If you do not address the issue, you will get dinged the next year and next year. Just speaking from experience.
doom said: "Don't know whose worse; realtors or mortgage brokers?"
Hmm... that's a tough call. Can I get back to you on that?!
Have been reading NJ REreport for several years now. Excellent blog that, like this one, does a better job than the press at calling the industry's bluff - Congratulations James!!
Ross, I had a similar problem with a LD call (Japan) and AT&T several years ago. It turned out to be a billing error on their part.
They made all kinds of threats to me. Like destroying my credit (over their own admitted error). I asked them how did that work. I paid cash for my car, I wasn't even considering buying another house, didn't use credit cards and didn't have a job as I was retired. Just how would this hurt me?
I finally told them to come to the house, rip out the phone lines, they could rot. Only then did they do some double-checking, realized they were wrong, corrected my bill.
doom said: "Don't know whose worse; realtors or mortgage brokers?"
Realtors!
I have said often that wage inflation is on the way.
I'll believe it when I see it.
"After seven lengthy calls with their support team in India, I gave up and removed all Symantec products from my computer. They billed me $9.95 apiece for the calls." -unirealist
I also had a bad experience with Symantec except they had a bug with Vista that needed to be patched(the flipside of your troubles). Good luck on getting any money back from them using the procedure on their website if you are unhappy before the warranty expires. After attempting that numerous times, I then decided to try to get the software functioning instead and to save money I used email with tech support from India. We bantered back and forth for nearly a MONTH, downloading files, uninstalling software, documenting what I was doing with screenshots, etc. Eventually got it working.
One thing to definitely watch for if you are considering buying their software online: Be very careful not to allow them to automatically charge a new subscription to your credit card when that screen shows up. The whole experience reminded me of an impersonally vicious version of Columbia Record Club from the early 80s.
I have said often that wage inflation is on the way.
I'll believe it when I see it.
tj & the bear
tj, he is taqlking about chinese wage inflation manifesting itself soon in walmart
Re: "It happened in the crunching of the numbers, said NAR spokesman Lucien Salvant. It was just a mistake and we owned up to it."
FRAUD by NAR (again and again)!!!!
bwahah, who takes those bastards at the nar seriously?