He might be having financial problems (maybe the Surreal Life didnt pay that much), but the fact that millions of Americans are in similar situations and a viable option (at least to some ) is to walk away is very troubling. This shows that lenders (for giving these mortgages) and borrows are equally to blame. How much more lies ahead.
He made good money but he was always spendthrift. Like many athletes he became property rich but cash poor. Add in the odd divorce or 3 and he's barely got 2 nickels to rub together. Hence all the books for an easy cash grab.
Sigh. These free-standing SFH walkaway issues are so simple compared to the coming condo implosion.
I am at a big lawyer conference in DC this week, and I saw a great presentation on condo workouts today. Project workouts, not the homeowner workouts Ms. Bair is so concerned about.
I have always been skeptical about condos because buyers have no idea what they are getting into. Today I learned a bunch of new reasons never to buy a condo, especially a new one. 69 pages of reasons, in small print.
For example, I did not know that project financing is usually senir to the individual purchasers, so if they foreclose they can basically just kick everybody out. In fact, most recent condo projects have multiple ways for either the developer or the lender to force out the individual unit owners if the lender or developer decides it would be more profitable (or in most of these cases, less unprofitable) to convert to rentals. The individual unit owner could be left with no condo, but still owing all or part of the mortgage.
Condos are basically the derivatives of the real estate world. They are so complicated and interdependent that if anything goes wrong, then everything goes wrong. One participant characterized unfinished condo developments as financial neutron bombs because they basically wipe out everyone involved but leave the building standing.
By the way, there seems to be general agreement among the lawyers that the lenders have not "faced the music" with sufficient write-downs on these deals yet. Lots of the mezzanine financing has zero value, since mezz collateral is basically the developer's stock, and nobody would want to take a chance on getting stuck with the developer's liabilities.
Wait a second - the first? I don't think so. What about Spree? The man who has "a family to feed", remember?
I'm sure his home was sufficient to payoff the mortgage, but I would guess that his boat left such a massive deficiency balance (about half a mil - more than he paid for his house), that he is letting it go since they attached a 'j' to the real estate.
We feed this guy so much attention, lifting him to celebrity status and at the end of the day, he's just another guy; humping it out to keep the lights on.
My buddy used to live around the corner in Encino and we used to see him all the time walking his dog. There's no way that house is 7K sq feet and not a "mansion."
It's a long essay by Peter Theil at the Hoover Institution about globalization, bubbles, and the risks (and benefits) of apocalyptic thinking. He is a co-founder of PayPal for what it's worth. Also a hedge fund manager and a hell of a writer.
Loved that guy... pure instinct, even if that instinct told him to beat up PJ... None the less I'll take that heart over Canseco's roids any day of the week....
albrt writes: Sigh. These free-standing SFH walkaway issues are so simple compared to the coming condo implosion.
Thanks for posting this, albrt.
You should write a book for consumers about the dangers of buying condos. I'll help you, if you want.
When I look at all the condo crazyness going on, what Novare is doing in Atlanta and what Corus is doing all over, you just know that billions of dollars of pain is coming in condos. What you're saying is that the pain will be shared not only by lenders and developers but by many consumers who were dumb enough to buy their rap and sign up.
This condo in downtown Tampa is probably going to be finished right about the time everything in condo land is imploding.
I watch these guys build it almost every week. It's sad. They seem like pretty hard-working guys. I'm sure they are just shaking their heads at the stupdity and counting their blessings they have a paycheck one more day.
I do have a judgment on my home and it to me is very strange because it didnt make financial sense for me to keep paying a mortgage on a home that was basically owned by someone else,<
It sounds like when he says he doesn't own it, he isn't referring to the mortgage but a judicial judgment -- which is not surprising.
Its kind of an ongoing middle-class flight in an area thats very pricey, said Bill Frey, a Brookings Institution demographer who analyzed the census numbers. I think the steady state for coastal California, especially the Bay Area, will be people leaving that cant afford to stay, given the housing prices and the cost of living.
To demographers, one of the most interesting phenomena in the new numbers is what they say about the place of older, mostly white baby boomers in California.
The new data suggests that on the cusp of retirement, boomers in their late 50s and early 60s are definitely moving out of California, said Mark Mather, associate VP of a demographic think tank in Washington, D.C. People thinking about retirement are still moving out of high-cost states like California in favor of less crowded, less expensive areas.
Whether boomers and whites will continue to leave is uncertain. Already, say demographers, there are hints in the new census data that the white population loss is slowing, perhaps because the housing slump is locking people in place.
Its all about optics...I see a Campbells soup commercial here...campfire, a can of soup and brilliant lights on houses in the background..."Feel free, really free" the courus chants...
If anyone needs a little extra cash you can become a certified loss mitigation consultant in week! And no experience is necessary!! Train Online from you Home!!!.No sh!t,google it.
I just think Kanye has some great lyrics, that one is just apropos. These celebs bring this attention on themselves, then they hate it "more than the nazis"/ more than anything when it turns against them.
Let's not be thinking Jose is being sharp here. There will be recourse. Like CR said, he's in financial trouble.
Banker can't be THE Banker. Check out his blog... he's a forex trader, has thoughtful ideas, but has some doubts about the world.
THE Banker was in the Investment/Sales side, 'knew people', never doubted himself, and always thought everyone knew less than he did.
You know, like the guys at Bear, Stearns.
He did have a nice Bankerdome, though.. and his opinions were interesting.
Has anybody noticed that bear pundits Jim Rogers and Marc Faber and others have disappeared from the media? Is it possible that "the authorities" are exerting some pressure on media outlets at a time when faith/trust in the Fed is so essential?
I mean you can't have these guys going around calling Bernanke an idiot and saying we should disband the Fed, not when you're battling a financial meltdown that requires faith in the system...
Probably just another conspiracy theory, but....I miss those guys!
They're not being invited to speak or write because they were 'so obviously wrong' now that we've got a rally going on. On a smaller (and inverse) scale, it's the same way Seb & O-Joe disappear when the market drops.
Wait a month or two and watch what happens.
If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to connect dilithium batteries to my tinfoil hat.
MLM, you may be right...but it just doesn't seem right that the media wouldn't give airtime to an outspoken Fed critic immediately after a questionable move. Maybe we'll see him (Rogers or Faber) in the next few days.
I know one thing. The books that describe past financial crises (especially the Great Depression, but also in general) make it very clear that the government and financial authorities speak soothing reassurances, and they also poo-poo those raising doubts about the troubled markets.
Subsidies to almost every industry on borrowed money is the only thing keeping this piece of crap afloat. One of these days the bill will have to be paid and the US will be saying "It didn't make financial sense for me to keep paying a mortgage on a home that was basically owned by someone else."
May 2 (Bloomberg) -- Bank of America Corp., the second- biggest U.S. bank, said it may not guarantee $38.1 billion of Countrywide Financial Corp.'s debt after taking over the mortgage lender, fueling speculation that Countrywide's bondholders face renewed risk of default.
Countrywide's $1 billion of 6.25 percent notes maturing in 2016 traded at 90.25 cents on the dollar yesterday with a yield of about 7.9 percent, according to Bloomberg data. The debt traded as low as 46 cents in January, with a yield of 20 percent, just before Bank of America announced the purchase.
.
.
.
``I'd be quite concerned if I was a bondholder if the intent of Bank of America is as it reads in the filing,'' said Gary Austin, founder of PDR Advisors LLC, an investment management firm in Charlotte.
Yep, it seems that way to me too. Of course, they have to print statements by the big cheese (like Bush, Paulson, bank CEOs, etc...), and really, what else are those guys gonna say?
"Don't worry everyone, we fixed it!" (translated, "Damnit, we can't afford another Bear Stearns & Northern Rocks!")
Countrywide's bondholders face renewed risk of default.
Can BofA actually do this? When you buy a company aren't you buying the assets and liabilities? Seems like buying a house and not paying off the lien holder.
Oh well, those questions will be answered in the lawsuit.
Its kind of an ongoing middle-class flight in an area thats very pricey, said Bill Frey, a Brookings Institution demographer who analyzed the census numbers. I think the steady state for coastal California, especially the Bay Area, will be people leaving that cant afford to stay, given the housing prices and the cost of living.
To demographers, one of the most interesting phenomena in the new numbers is what they say about the place of older, mostly white baby boomers in California.
The new data suggests that on the cusp of retirement, boomers in their late 50s and early 60s are definitely moving out of California, said Mark Mather, associate VP of a demographic think tank in Washington, D.C. People thinking about retirement are still moving out of high-cost states like California in favor of less crowded, less expensive areas.
Whether boomers and whites will continue to leave is uncertain. Already, say demographers, there are hints in the new census data that the white population loss is slowing, perhaps because the housing slump is locking people in place.
gonna have to call BS on the 50-60 year olds leaving California. These people are locked in with low property taxes from prop 13. I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt they are going to move away considering the low property taxes they are paying. HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt.
In case anyone has missed Tim's attachment from Bloomberg above re CFC / BAC I would encourage you to take a look.
"May 2 (Bloomberg) -- Bank of America Corp., the second- biggest U.S. bank, said it may not guarantee $38.1 billion of Countrywide Financial Corp.'s debt after taking over the mortgage lender, fueling speculation that Countrywide's bondholders face renewed risk of default.
``There is no assurance that any such debt would be redeemed, assumed or guaranteed,'' the Charlotte, North Carolina-based bank said in an April 30 regulatory filing..."
sdtfs writes: Countrywide's bondholders face renewed risk of default.
Can BofA actually do this? When you buy a company aren't you buying the assets and liabilities?
Maybe it was a sham wedding from the beginning and this is their way of telling the government that if the arranged marriage is to go through they want a much bigger dowry?
NEW YORK (Standard & Poor's) May 1, 2008--After reviewing and analyzing the
performance data available for U.S. closed-end second-lien (CES) mortgage
loans and the related residential mortgage-backed securities (RMBS), Standard
& Poor's Ratings Services believes that this market segment does not allow for
a meaningful analysis of new issuance and securitization.
I was just over at MarketWatch, and I noticed the same thing - all bullish, blue skies and daisies. It looks orchestrated.
You all did see the information about how the Pentagon orchestrated the military experts to go on TV and lie about how well the war was going in Iraq, right? I'd keep that in mind while Mr. Magic Wand is still in charge.
@Erik:gonna have to call BS on the 50-60 year olds leaving California. These people are locked in with low property taxes from prop 13. I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt they are going to move away considering the low property taxes they are paying. HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt.
Well, with CA $20B in the hole in 2008 alone, it appears that they're gonna get exactly what they pay for. A forward-thinking 50-something in CA has got to be considering that Prop 13 might just have to go the way of the Pterodactyl.
Jose is speaking "walk-away", whether he actually did it or not. Why would he speak that way? Maybe it is simply more macho to speak that way. Shows the speaker is in control and making practical decisions for himself (as opposed to being foreclosed 'cause he's poor and things got away from him). Jose certainly has gifted real ruthless walk-aways with a celebrity endorsement.
Canseco's not similarly situated to most people--as noted in the WSJ post, there is at least one judgment lien on his house--it may well be for more than the mortgage (altho junior to the mortgage). So, even if he paid off the mortgage, someone else would own the house. That's not the common circumstance.
Las is right. It's much more macho when you can pretend it's your move. It's the bad old "bill collector" policy - the poor loser expects to get paid for providing you a place to stay.
I am at the ABA real property estate and trust law symposium. You can check the aBA website, but I don't think the conference materials are publicly available yet. Unfortunately, as Rich indicated, the book on this hasn't been written yet. I had not realized how heavily the financial lawyers were involved in establishing the property side of the deal. Once these things really get going in court (Florida is in the lead on this) nobody is going to have any idea what they own.
The Oakland Alt-A's?
A walk-off home. Er.
Me and Jose are here all week! Try the veal!
Jose Canseco is a trainwreck
Chasing Jose, By Pat Jordan - Baseball - Deadspin
He might be having financial problems (maybe the Surreal Life didnt pay that much), but the fact that millions of Americans are in similar situations and a viable option (at least to some ) is to walk away is very troubling. This shows that lenders (for giving these mortgages) and borrows are equally to blame. How much more lies ahead.
Banker
Couldn't of happened to a better guy.
Walk away + financial problems.
He made good money but he was always spendthrift. Like many athletes he became property rich but cash poor. Add in the odd divorce or 3 and he's barely got 2 nickels to rub together. Hence all the books for an easy cash grab.
I'll bet he didn't have a subprime loan.
Who could have known?
Banker glad you are back. How is the bankerdome or be you a different banker with a capital B?
Sigh. These free-standing SFH walkaway issues are so simple compared to the coming condo implosion.
I am at a big lawyer conference in DC this week, and I saw a great presentation on condo workouts today. Project workouts, not the homeowner workouts Ms. Bair is so concerned about.
I have always been skeptical about condos because buyers have no idea what they are getting into. Today I learned a bunch of new reasons never to buy a condo, especially a new one. 69 pages of reasons, in small print.
For example, I did not know that project financing is usually senir to the individual purchasers, so if they foreclose they can basically just kick everybody out. In fact, most recent condo projects have multiple ways for either the developer or the lender to force out the individual unit owners if the lender or developer decides it would be more profitable (or in most of these cases, less unprofitable) to convert to rentals. The individual unit owner could be left with no condo, but still owing all or part of the mortgage.
Condos are basically the derivatives of the real estate world. They are so complicated and interdependent that if anything goes wrong, then everything goes wrong. One participant characterized unfinished condo developments as financial neutron bombs because they basically wipe out everyone involved but leave the building standing.
By the way, there seems to be general agreement among the lawyers that the lenders have not "faced the music" with sufficient write-downs on these deals yet. Lots of the mezzanine financing has zero value, since mezz collateral is basically the developer's stock, and nobody would want to take a chance on getting stuck with the developer's liabilities.
Wait a second - the first? I don't think so. What about Spree? The man who has "a family to feed", remember?
I'm sure his home was sufficient to payoff the mortgage, but I would guess that his boat left such a massive deficiency balance (about half a mil - more than he paid for his house), that he is letting it go since they attached a 'j' to the real estate.
All's not well with Sprewell; banks move in on property | StarTribune.com
We feed this guy so much attention, lifting him to celebrity status and at the end of the day, he's just another guy; humping it out to keep the lights on.
I don't know about you but I feel better.
Thread tunes:
YouTube -
My buddy used to live around the corner in Encino and we used to see him all the time walking his dog. There's no way that house is 7K sq feet and not a "mansion."
MLM,
LOL!
The Wall Street Journal
Jose Canseco: Walking Away from His Mortgage 'Not Difficult Emotionally' (with reader comments)
Jose Canseco: Walking Away from His Mortgage ‘Not Difficult Emotionally’ - Developments - WSJ
Given that California is a no-recourse loan state, you're going to see a ton of walkaways.
Morals aside, it makes a ton of sense financially to walk away from an underwater money-pit house if the loan is non-recourse.
I hear the Valley is really dry this spring. Maybe a good brush fire will start and clear out all the unsaleable properties.
I do apologize for the OT post here, but this is an essay that may interest many here.
Hoover Institution - Policy Review - The Optimistic Thought Experiment
It's a long essay by Peter Theil at the Hoover Institution about globalization, bubbles, and the risks (and benefits) of apocalyptic thinking. He is a co-founder of PayPal for what it's worth. Also a hedge fund manager and a hell of a writer.
Jose Canseco: Walking Away from His Mortgage 'Not Difficult Emotionally'
Anyone who followed his career is not surprised by any of this.
Banker welcome back... I've been less present here for a while but I cant recall seeing you in eons...
Has the turmoil on WS kept you busy?
.....................
On a different note, some one earlier coined the phrase:
"Canseco gets called out trying to steal home"
Or something to that affect... Great stuff....
.............................
Shnapster, great call on Sphreeeeeee! ! ! !
Loved that guy... pure instinct, even if that instinct told him to beat up PJ... None the less I'll take that heart over Canseco's roids any day of the week....
Cheers!
Freakdog,
It was a 7k sq foot house. When it became a mansion, it was suspected of steroid abuse.
Seriously, I have a friend with some Hollywood clients. They've got the same problems
What about Spree? The man who has "a family to feed", remember?
Anyone who followed his career is not surprised by any of this.
Okay, we've got the A's and the Golden State Warriors,...where's the Raider Nation? Jeff George? Randy Moss? C'mon, there's at least one.
There is no moral argument to walking away...at all. Anyone who thinks there is, is a total fool.
Mostl of the defaulting buyers PAID for the right to walk away thru their mortgage insurance payments, because they did not have enough down.
The problem lies in that the banks and the insurers didnt price the risk appropriately, and that IS NOT the buyers problem. Walk on.
You guys might shit your pants if you knew who was both subprime and on the 'A' list.
I promise you, it would surprise the hell out of you.
Like,you know ,Britney needs a man in her life to provide some stability,maybe she should give Jose a call...
Thanks for posting this, albrt.
You should write a book for consumers about the dangers of buying condos. I'll help you, if you want.
When I look at all the condo crazyness going on, what Novare is doing in Atlanta and what Corus is doing all over, you just know that billions of dollars of pain is coming in condos. What you're saying is that the pain will be shared not only by lenders and developers but by many consumers who were dumb enough to buy their rap and sign up.
This condo in downtown Tampa is probably going to be finished right about the time everything in condo land is imploding.
Novare Group: Construction Camera
I watch these guys build it almost every week. It's sad. They seem like pretty hard-working guys. I'm sure they are just shaking their heads at the stupdity and counting their blessings they have a paycheck one more day.
What a waste!
better thread tune:
YouTube - Kanye West - Flashing Lights
/Till I get flashed by the paparazzi/
/Damn, these niggaz got me/
/I hate these niggaz more than the Nazis/
.
It sounds like when he says he doesn't own it, he isn't referring to the mortgage but a judicial judgment -- which is not surprising.
Another typical case that isn't typical.
OT but... Maria Carey just married Nick Cannon.
This just in...Maria Carey just divorced Nick Cannon.
Hey Shnapster(c)- you trawling for trolls with that?
Banker are you the Banker of days gone by?
missed ya
OT
Its kind of an ongoing middle-class flight in an area thats very pricey, said Bill Frey, a Brookings Institution demographer who analyzed the census numbers. I think the steady state for coastal California, especially the Bay Area, will be people leaving that cant afford to stay, given the housing prices and the cost of living.
To demographers, one of the most interesting phenomena in the new numbers is what they say about the place of older, mostly white baby boomers in California.
The new data suggests that on the cusp of retirement, boomers in their late 50s and early 60s are definitely moving out of California, said Mark Mather, associate VP of a demographic think tank in Washington, D.C. People thinking about retirement are still moving out of high-cost states like California in favor of less crowded, less expensive areas.
Whether boomers and whites will continue to leave is uncertain. Already, say demographers, there are hints in the new census data that the white population loss is slowing, perhaps because the housing slump is locking people in place.
Its all about optics...I see a Campbells soup commercial here...campfire, a can of soup and brilliant lights on houses in the background..."Feel free, really free" the courus chants...
I guess he was thrown out while trying to steal home.
-- Hiding Out
If anyone needs a little extra cash you can become a certified loss mitigation consultant in week! And no experience is necessary!! Train Online from you Home!!!.No sh!t,google it.
I wonder if he walked away in the moon boots he wears to the 24 hour fitness in Sherman Oaks?
egative, fishman.
I just think Kanye has some great lyrics, that one is just apropos. These celebs bring this attention on themselves, then they hate it "more than the nazis"/ more than anything when it turns against them.
Let's not be thinking Jose is being sharp here. There will be recourse. Like CR said, he's in financial trouble.
Walking away will never be accepted as OK. Unless...
exactly and having this on inside edition, the idea of walking away just reached a whole new audience.... oops
Brittany may be next. I heard on the radio today that she spent 61 million of her 110 million last year maintaining her lifestyle.
HD shuttering stores. BULLISH! I doubt they'll be finding new occupants for those warehouses. Do they get to walk away?
I think Canseco has $$$ and just walked away. Just my opinion.
Banker can't be THE Banker. Check out his blog... he's a forex trader, has thoughtful ideas, but has some doubts about the world.
THE Banker was in the Investment/Sales side, 'knew people', never doubted himself, and always thought everyone knew less than he did.
You know, like the guys at Bear, Stearns.
He did have a nice Bankerdome, though.. and his opinions were interesting.
Off Topic...
Has anybody noticed that bear pundits Jim Rogers and Marc Faber and others have disappeared from the media? Is it possible that "the authorities" are exerting some pressure on media outlets at a time when faith/trust in the Fed is so essential?
I mean you can't have these guys going around calling Bernanke an idiot and saying we should disband the Fed, not when you're battling a financial meltdown that requires faith in the system...
Probably just another conspiracy theory, but....I miss those guys!
From Matt Trivisono's Blog. Withholding data for April:
2007 142,436
2008 138,840 -2.52%
The budget deficit will get rather unpleasant.
I still expect around $500 billion.
ShortCourage -
They're not being invited to speak or write because they were 'so obviously wrong' now that we've got a rally going on. On a smaller (and inverse) scale, it's the same way Seb & O-Joe disappear when the market drops.
Wait a month or two and watch what happens.
If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to connect dilithium batteries to my tinfoil hat.
Home... Run!
Didn't Rogers move to China?
MLM, you may be right...but it just doesn't seem right that the media wouldn't give airtime to an outspoken Fed critic immediately after a questionable move. Maybe we'll see him (Rogers or Faber) in the next few days.
I know one thing. The books that describe past financial crises (especially the Great Depression, but also in general) make it very clear that the government and financial authorities speak soothing reassurances, and they also poo-poo those raising doubts about the troubled markets.
The budget deficit will get rather unpleasant.
Subsidies to almost every industry on borrowed money is the only thing keeping this piece of crap afloat. One of these days the bill will have to be paid and the US will be saying "It didn't make financial sense for me to keep paying a mortgage on a home that was basically owned by someone else."
From Bloomberg:
Bank of America May Withhold Guarantee on Countrywide's Debt
Bank of America May Not Guarantee Countrywide's Debt (Update6) - Bloomberg.com
May 2 (Bloomberg) -- Bank of America Corp., the second- biggest U.S. bank, said it may not guarantee $38.1 billion of Countrywide Financial Corp.'s debt after taking over the mortgage lender, fueling speculation that Countrywide's bondholders face renewed risk of default.
Countrywide's $1 billion of 6.25 percent notes maturing in 2016 traded at 90.25 cents on the dollar yesterday with a yield of about 7.9 percent, according to Bloomberg data. The debt traded as low as 46 cents in January, with a yield of 20 percent, just before Bank of America announced the purchase.
.
.
.
``I'd be quite concerned if I was a bondholder if the intent of Bank of America is as it reads in the filing,'' said Gary Austin, founder of PDR Advisors LLC, an investment management firm in Charlotte.
"Is it possible that "the authorities" are exerting some pressure on media outlets at a time when faith/trust in the Fed is so essential?"
ShortCourage | 05.02.08 - 12:19 am
I was just over at MarketWatch, and I noticed the same thing - all bullish, blue skies and daisies. It looks orchestrated.
, 'knew people', never doubted himself, and always thought everyone knew less than he did.
Will the BA/CFC news begin to shed light on the true price of mortgage debt. Mark to Market anyone.
Bank of America May Not Guarantee Countrywide's Debt (Update6) - Bloomberg.com
Marcus Aurelius,
Yep, it seems that way to me too. Of course, they have to print statements by the big cheese (like Bush, Paulson, bank CEOs, etc...), and really, what else are those guys gonna say?
"Don't worry everyone, we fixed it!" (translated, "Damnit, we can't afford another Bear Stearns & Northern Rocks!")
albrt, that's extremely interesting. What was the conference called? Could you point me somewhere where I could read more about this? Thanks,
sanity clause
I was just over at MarketWatch, and I noticed the same thing - all bullish, blue skies and daisies. It looks orchestrated. - Marcus Aurelius
Yep, check out the euphoria rating at the big picture ("Barrons Panic Euphoria Model")
The Big Picture
sterlingerl,
Thanks for that link, very interesting charts and background.
Bob Mologna
thanks for the link to the Peter Thiel essay over at the Hoover institution policy review.
interesting concept...all in with the hopes of walking the narrow path to success cause the alternative thinking is to bet on Armageddon
have not yet quite rapped my mind around the proposition
thanks agai
It sounds like when he says he doesn't own it, he isn't referring to the mortgage but a judicial judgment -- which is not surprising.
Not to me. If he had already lost title to the property, there wouldn't have been any mortgage payments to make, would there?
As of yet Singapore is not part of the mainland so no, Jim Rogers did not move to China.
'knew people', never doubted himself, and always thought everyone knew less than he did.
You're referring to Ipodius.
CoFounder of Paypal?
I thought it was Elon. He was my physics classmate.
hero
Countrywide's bondholders face renewed risk of default.
Can BofA actually do this? When you buy a company aren't you buying the assets and liabilities? Seems like buying a house and not paying off the lien holder.
Oh well, those questions will be answered in the lawsuit.
OT
Its kind of an ongoing middle-class flight in an area thats very pricey, said Bill Frey, a Brookings Institution demographer who analyzed the census numbers. I think the steady state for coastal California, especially the Bay Area, will be people leaving that cant afford to stay, given the housing prices and the cost of living.
To demographers, one of the most interesting phenomena in the new numbers is what they say about the place of older, mostly white baby boomers in California.
The new data suggests that on the cusp of retirement, boomers in their late 50s and early 60s are definitely moving out of California, said Mark Mather, associate VP of a demographic think tank in Washington, D.C. People thinking about retirement are still moving out of high-cost states like California in favor of less crowded, less expensive areas.
Whether boomers and whites will continue to leave is uncertain. Already, say demographers, there are hints in the new census data that the white population loss is slowing, perhaps because the housing slump is locking people in place.
gonna have to call BS on the 50-60 year olds leaving California. These people are locked in with low property taxes from prop 13. I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt they are going to move away considering the low property taxes they are paying. HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt.
In case anyone has missed Tim's attachment from Bloomberg above re CFC / BAC I would encourage you to take a look.
"May 2 (Bloomberg) -- Bank of America Corp., the second- biggest U.S. bank, said it may not guarantee $38.1 billion of Countrywide Financial Corp.'s debt after taking over the mortgage lender, fueling speculation that Countrywide's bondholders face renewed risk of default.
``There is no assurance that any such debt would be redeemed, assumed or guaranteed,'' the Charlotte, North Carolina-based bank said in an April 30 regulatory filing..."
Oops sorry short courage, did not see you posted already re BAC / CFC...
sdtfs writes: Countrywide's bondholders face renewed risk of default.
Can BofA actually do this? When you buy a company aren't you buying the assets and liabilities?
Maybe it was a sham wedding from the beginning and this is their way of telling the government that if the arranged marriage is to go through they want a much bigger dowry?
See you in Berkshire Hathaway Ville! Anyone else going out there that wants to meet up just drop a post on my blog.
Standard & Poors Halts Rating Process For U.S. Closed-End Second-Lien Mortgage Loans
NEW YORK (Standard & Poor's) May 1, 2008--After reviewing and analyzing the
performance data available for U.S. closed-end second-lien (CES) mortgage
loans and the related residential mortgage-backed securities (RMBS), Standard
& Poor's Ratings Services believes that this market segment does not allow for
a meaningful analysis of new issuance and securitization.
I was just over at MarketWatch, and I noticed the same thing - all bullish, blue skies and daisies. It looks orchestrated.
You all did see the information about how the Pentagon orchestrated the military experts to go on TV and lie about how well the war was going in Iraq, right? I'd keep that in mind while Mr. Magic Wand is still in charge.
ENCINO? He was in ENCINO?
I'd walk away to if I had to live in Encino. Ugh.
@Erik:gonna have to call BS on the 50-60 year olds leaving California. These people are locked in with low property taxes from prop 13. I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt they are going to move away considering the low property taxes they are paying. HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt.
Well, with CA $20B in the hole in 2008 alone, it appears that they're gonna get exactly what they pay for. A forward-thinking 50-something in CA has got to be considering that Prop 13 might just have to go the way of the Pterodactyl.
Jose is speaking "walk-away", whether he actually did it or not. Why would he speak that way? Maybe it is simply more macho to speak that way. Shows the speaker is in control and making practical decisions for himself (as opposed to being foreclosed 'cause he's poor and things got away from him). Jose certainly has gifted real ruthless walk-aways with a celebrity endorsement.
Canseco's not similarly situated to most people--as noted in the WSJ post, there is at least one judgment lien on his house--it may well be for more than the mortgage (altho junior to the mortgage). So, even if he paid off the mortgage, someone else would own the house. That's not the common circumstance.
Las is right. It's much more macho when you can pretend it's your move. It's the bad old "bill collector" policy - the poor loser expects to get paid for providing you a place to stay.
I am at the ABA real property estate and trust law symposium. You can check the aBA website, but I don't think the conference materials are publicly available yet. Unfortunately, as Rich indicated, the book on this hasn't been written yet. I had not realized how heavily the financial lawyers were involved in establishing the property side of the deal. Once these things really get going in court (Florida is in the lead on this) nobody is going to have any idea what they own.
Canseco exercised his free housing put option.